#tolkien talks

[ellieofthewoods]

it is a beautiful day and you are a horrible goose screaming at a ringwraith

[lovely-v]

I do genuinely believe that the Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (and arguably the Zelda franchise as a whole, though i myself have played literally none of these games) is closer to fitting the description of ‘Tolkien-esque Fantasy’ than most other movies/shows/games/books etc that claim that label

Like, compare this post by tumblr user wufflesvetinari, which makes an important point about Tolkien’s worldbuilding, and also lives in my head rent free:

and then these quotes from Jacob Geller’s “Every Zelda is the Darkest Zelda”

and his conclusions about the messages in Zelda games are thematically very similar to the through-lines about friendship and love in LOTR, and what a lot of authors miss about what makes a fantasy story personal and memorable:

“A world without joy and humor isn’t a compelling world to fight for” is exactly why there are so many pieces of fantasy media out there that just feel like carbon copies of each other (i’ve seen many posts that explain this better than I can though I can’t find any specific ones at the moment, just know that I didn’t invent this thesis). You’ve got the cool swords, you’ve got the wizards and the spells and the battles, but first and foremost you need the LOVE.

[mrkida-art]

Young dwarf Thorin

[silvantransthranduiltrash]

What most elves thinks it’s like talking to the trees:

Silvan: mighty oak tree, is there some trouble of which you would like to warn us?

Tree: no, my kind silvan. There is no darkness of which that can cause you harm.

What a silvan talking to a tree is actually like:

Legolas, cackling, landing on a tree branch: babe, you’ll never believe what happened!

Tree, lighting up and shaking their leaves: Legolas, my good bitch! I got news!

[armenelols]

Daily reminder that it happened twice for someone to be compared to Oromë while riding into battle. The first one was Fingolfin. The second one was Théoden.

Fingolfin, burning with so much rage, Beleriand ablaze, his nephews dead, eyes so bright and inhuman and otherwordly that he gets mistaken for a Vala. And he challenged Morgoth to a fight, and wounded him seven times, and scarred him for the rest of eternity, and orcs made no boast about that duel, and no songs were sung about it, for the sorrow was too deep.

And Théoden. Just. Théoden. Whose mind was poisoned, whose son was dead, and the world was falling apart around him, but who would not stand down and would not give up. And the armies of Rohan came, the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them.

Something about Fingolfin riding out to challenge Morgoth in wrath and despair, raging at the world and nothing going as it should be — something about Théoden riding out in wrath and hope, because there is a better future and he will be damned if he doesn't do everything in his power to lead the world to it.

[mistergandalf]

how can you not love dwarves like so much. there's so much there to love. dwarves are the best why does everyone sleep on how much dwarves rule

[manichewitz]

sam and frodo’s relationship is so crazy theyre like what if we had a homoerotic adventurer’s bond that was so strong it overcame the power of supreme evil, saving not just the world but one another, and the only reason we were able to survive the violence around us was through sheer love for each other, and although we’re not canonically lovers our relationship is so much more intimate and tender than acceptable norms for male/male relationships that we transcend easily definable labels and thus become queer irregardless of whether our attraction is platonic, romantic, or sexual…and we were both hobbits

[invisiblewashboard]

Small Child’s Thoughts on “Helm’s Deep”

Sounds like there are way too many bad guys.

Are they happy because the king is there? Hm. Because the king will help them fight the bad guys? I feel happy when my dad comes home because he helps me fight my sisters.

I think you should maybe not listen to someone named Wormtongue. But maybe it’s not his fault that he’s named that. Maybe his mom and dad just didn’t like him.

Mom, can I have a horn to make horn blasts with? (No.) But I would only use for good things, like to tell you if there was danger!

The van? If they have vans they can have trains. (No, no, Small Child, that means “vanguard.”) Hm. That is boring. They should have a van instead.

Gimli wants to kill lots of orcs and that is very good. I like that.

Hundreds and hundreds more bad guys is not a good thing.

Lightning plus bad guys is going to equal a very bad time for everyone.

I just do not really know what is happening. You are reading lots of words but I am confused. I only know there are orcs and lightning.

Why did Legolas spend all his arrows? (Because that’s what happens in a battle.) Well, he should have just brought more with him.

I tried to jump off a wall once. And you told me it was bad. But Gimli did it and you said it was good.

Wow! 21 is a lot of orcs! Good job, Gimli. You’re doing very good work!

Two dozen? (A dozen is 12, so how many is two dozen?) Oh, I see. 24! Legolas is winning now. Who is going to get more points? I do not want to wait to find out, I would just like you to tell me now. (Just be patient! You will find out soon enough.)

How many orcs did Aragorn kill? (I don’t know, I don’t think he is playing the game with Legolas and Gimli.) Why? He should play and not ruin the fun.

So, Mama? Blasting fire is like a bomb, right? Like a big explosion? I think if they have that, they can maybe have trains soon. Trains would make things easier because they could go places fast.

Saying his spear was long seems just so unnecessary. Spears are long. That is why they are spears and not just little stumpy stabbers.

Is that Gandalf the White Rider? Good. I think things will be okay now if he is here.

Hey Mom? You told me that if I was patient I would find out who got more points. But you stopped reading and I still do not know.

[queenlucythevaliant]

Okay but I do get really tired when people rag on Narnia's Biblical parallels for being too overt. Like, yeah dude. It's written for kids. Most kids don't do subtlety. I knew my Bible better than probably 95% of third graders, and yet my parents still had to clue me in. I've talked to people who grew up secular and didn't realize Narnia was Christian until well into adulthood. The Christian parallels in Narnia are at a pretty perfect level for most kids, and the fact that we as adults continue to get new spiritual meaning from it as we grow is a real testament to the depth of Jack's writing.

[tathrin]

Hey, so do you ever stop to think about how the premise of Lord of the Rings being an in-universe book written by some of the characters who lived through that story means that they decided what parts and perspectives to use to tell that story...?

And when our authors weren't there to experience the events themselves, they have to rely on what they're told about them by the characters who were there, right...?

Okay so stop and think about the Glittering Caves.

We never actually go to the caves in the narrative. Tolkien LOVES describing nature and natural beauty, but we don't actually see the caves described "by him" the way we do other places. Obviously Gimli's words are Tolkien's, yes; but we only see the caves filtered through his words about them, after the fact.

When Gimli and Éomer and the other Rohirrim take refuge there, the narrative doesn't follow them. Obviously from a narrative standpoint this is to keep the focus narrow, and not to interrupt the battle-sequence with a long ode to the beauty of the caves, and to create tension in the reader who doesn't know if these characters are okay or not. Which all makes sense!

But think about it in terms of the book that was written in Middle-earth by the folk living there. Why DON'T we get to have a direct experience of those caves? Gimli obviously related several other parts of the story that none of the Hobbits were there to witness to them, and which were written into the books as Direct Events Happening In The Narrative (think of the Paths of the Dead scene, for one of the more visceral moments!). So why not the Glittering Caves?

Was it because they wanted to keep that narrative focus and tension, and so they didn't include his perspective on that part of the battle? Perhaps, that's certainly a possibility to consider.

But also consider: when we do hear about the Glittering Caves, what we hear is Gimli telling Legolas about the Glittering Caves. THAT is the part of that event that is considered of importance to include in the book: not Gimli's actual experience when he was in them, but rather the part where he relates that experience TO Legolas.

And I kind of just THOUGHT about that today.

And went HUH.

[nikuttek]

I couldn't finish this for September 22nd but better late than never! 🌻

[ellieofthewoods]

gimli taking frodo to see the mirrormere makes me want to cry

“this is one of the most important places in my people’s culture and i want to share it with you” STOP IM ALREADY EMOTIONAL

and aragorn! recognizing how important it is to gimli! and telling him to go look even though they’re under pursuit and arguably don’t have the time!

[artist-owl]

oh so when everyone else has a "beach era" it's a fun and funky time but when I, Maglor Fëanorion -

[linddzz]

Latest idea floating around in my head: a twist on the Hob saving Morpheus from the time-out ball, except that's where they first met each other.

Hob's still immortal, it's just that Death was the one who came and gave him the deal of meeting every 100 years

(is this also bc I'd love Death being Hob's centennial buddy? Her being way less reserved and straight up telling him who she is. Her delight at his delighting over life. The rage in him when Eleanor and Robyn die. Death took them and she wouldn't even say anything to him when she did it. Also I'd like to see him just immediately choke and squirm like a bastard as soon as he starts explaining his new shipping business to her in 1789. Yes and hell yes gimme Hobsie and Death as bros.)

So Hob is trying out new stuff again. He's never tried out being a magus and gets himself in as a member of Burgess' order and eventually an acolyte.

And then he's introduced to the "devil" that Burgess keeps in the dungeon. He's to help study up on strengthening the wards around the sphere and all that. And boy is he deeply, super uncomfortable with the sight of this frail man trapped in a cage.

("Don't let his pretty face fool you." Burgess will tell him, "the thing is a demon who would destroy us all if given half a chance."

To be fair, Morpheus does not help his case at all and his expression clearly says "you fuckin bet I will")

And Hob is Hob. So while he's working on studying up on wards (which so happens to involve a lot of careful, detailed study of the wards around the sphere) he's chatting at the thing in it. He complains about the boss, talks about the War, tells the demon about his day while the demon either glares at him or makes a hilariously big show of not paying attention. Sometimes Hob straight up shirks work (with a winking "you won't tell the boss right?") And just reads books.

And he nearly shrieks in surprise when he's reading some new novel called The Hobbit out loud and looks up to find the demon watching and obviously interested. So of course Hob is gonna keep reading him stories and keep studying those binding spells super closely.

And ok that's where I gotta admit the story doesn't have a solid conclusion in my head yet (besides obviously Hob is gonna bust Dream out and then get kissed a LOT) but I do have one bit where Morpheus first talks to him and of course it's just cryptic weird shit. Because Morpheus has started watching this shit-wizard who won't shut the fuck up back and can tell that something is OFF about him.

So just imagine Hob is yammering away about how he thinks the masters kid and the gardener have something going on, and he nearly shits himself when the "demon" presses a hand against the glass and says

"Death has touched you. I see it now. My siblings marks upon you. Is that what you are here for? To report to them? To let them see how low their family has come? So they do know what has come of me then, and they have sent you to chatter away and truly make it clear that they will do nothing."

Hob's just like. "WHAT?? SIBLINGS?! You TALK??! Hang on you know Death???!" But Morpheus already is back to curling in on himself in a furious pissy sulk

[silvantransthranduiltrash]

Young Aragorn: *bemoaning his crush on Arwen, that he hasn’t told anyone about yet, to the trees surrounding imlardis*

Legolas, in Mirkwood, hearing of Aragorn’s crush via the tree grapevine and bolting towards Imlardis at Mach 10: *bursting through the trees* YOU HAVE A CRUSH ON WHO!?!

[zannolin]

was sitting by a waterfall reading today and i look up for a minute and the lady one bench over asked me what i was reading. i held up my copy of fellowship of the ring and she grinned and held up her copy of return of the king and we both went :D! at each other for a second before she reached into her bag and pulled out her husband's copy of fellowship which was the exact same edition as mine and explained she thought i'd borrowed their book for a minute and it was just really funny and cool. later i ran into her in the bathroom and we had a conversation about the books and how i'd gone to see return of the king in theatres for its 20th anniversary and how if they have another son they're naming him after tolkien or something and i don't even know her name but idk it was just cool i love talking to strangers who love the same things as you. of all the waterfalls in the national park, in the state, in the world, we just happened to be reading lord of the rings at the same one together this september. the world is vast and strange and beautifully familiar :)