#transmascs

[transmascissues]

the cis maternal urge to treat your trans son’s body like an extension of your own body, and to react to said trans son’s physical transition as if they might as well have just started hacking away at your own body with a rusty axe, really is something else.

my mom hasn’t seen my chest post-op at all because the idea of it is so awful to her that the one time we took my bandages off with her present, she ran across the hotel room to hide from it and started crying to my brother about it (yes, with actual tears). she drove an hour and a half with us at 5:30am to my post-op just to sit in the waiting room because she refused to come in and see me after the surgeon took the bandages off. my dad has been the only one helping me with recovery things like changing bandages and monitoring healing because she still won’t look at my chest.

and she says that’s because she loves me and cares about me. love is when you treat the body your child can finally live in comfortably like it’s your worst nightmare. apparently.

[vaspider]

Feisty Lady Anger and other things about me you hate

My mother prizes her anger, for all that she doesn't express it openly. I tell stories about her spiteful, steel-spined responses to people who told her, "You can't do that," and I point to them as Why I Am How I Am. Her father told her he wouldn't pay for her college because "women only go to earn the MRS degree," and she could "get married and have babies" without college. In response, Mom got her bachelor's in Mathematics in 1970 on her own dime, back in the days when in-state students didn't pay tuition at state schools (just another thing Reagan ruined). She worked and paid for her books and housing, got her degree, paid for her own wedding because he wouldn't do that either. Taught school, got her Master's, had three kids, started her Ph.D. with 3 under 6 and became a professor when the youngest was 5.

Tell me I can't, my mom told the world, and I'll show you that I can. I won't just do it, I'll become a department head and a Distinguished Professor and retire after 30 years of teaching other math teachers with a list of achievements as long as my arm.

There is an anger that runs deep in the women in my family. Tell me I can't, and I'll show you I can. Show me injustice and I'll tear at it with my teeth and hands, staring you down while I do. Backwards and in heels.

I can't tell you the moment I crossed out of Feisty Lady Anger in the eyes of the people close to me, but I can tell you the moment I noticed. Maybe it was when my voice started dropping or the growing muscles on my shoulders pulled my stance more square and upright. Maybe it was when I moved from they/them to he/they, and somehow I stepped from Diet Woman to Too Close To Man in their eyes.

It's a funny thing when all of a sudden your anger becomes real enough to be startling to people. Your anger is no longer feisty, charming, and attractive. This thing that people liked about you, that people who say they love you said they loved about you, suddenly becomes frightening, upsetting, and terrible. The way you didn't let people mow over you and fought back used to be a thing that people admired. It was actively attractive. It was one of your best qualities.

Now? It's ugly. It's disgusting. It's scary. The thing you were is gone, and now your anger is real to them.

It's in that moment that the blade cuts back towards you. You realize the reason your squared shoulders and set jaw drew people in couldn't be squared with the stubble on that jaw or the newfound strength in your arms. Feisty Lady Anger isn't real, not in the way a man's anger is real. Feisty Lady Anger is admirable, sure, but it is admirable because of its essential ineffectual nature. At most, Feisty Lady Anger fixes minor problems for the kids at school, gets the principal to back down from scolding your child when she politely asks the kid calling her a faggot on the bus if he knows what that really means, pushes a woman to achieve for her family, in appropriately neutered ways.

When you stop pretending to be a woman and become who you really are, when your anger becomes real, you realize both that the thing about you that people loved is gone and that this thing was attractive in the first place because of its ineffectiveness. Your anger wasn't scary because it wasn't real enough to be threatening.

Now you have Man Anger, and, you're told, you should apologize for that. It doesn't matter if it's the same anger you've always had, or that you're angry about the same things. It comes now in baritone, with belly hair and bellowing, and now it's both real and disgusting.

The worst part is watching it come from people you thought should know better, the people who should understand. You spent nearly 40 years being told to sit down and shut up because the men in your professional career were speaking, assured that if you just waited your turn, you'd be given a place to speak eventually, and now here you are being told within a community that claims to love and understand you, by people that claim to be in community with you and love who you are, that you actually don't have any real problems to speak about, also your Man Anger and Man Privilege (when do I get that, please?) are Scary and mean you should sit down and wait, and you'll be given a place to speak eventually.

It is the Transmasculine Catch-22: if you become Man Enough to no longer fit into Almost Lady, your anger becomes Real, which makes you realize that your anger wasn't Real before, but because it's Real now, you're not allowed to have it. And by the way, you're not allowed to be neither Man or Lady - now you're Man Enough, and that makes it all the more clear how you were simply Kirkland Signature Lady right up until the point you weren't.

There will be a few people who Fucking Get It, who don't see you as either a Failed Lady or a Broken Man, and you'll love those people all the more for their rarity. It won't take the sting out of realizing that the things people you love loved about you before now disgust and repel them, but it'll make it enough to keep going.

You couldn't stop, anyway. You've never felt more yourself, and the people who don't love you, the actual you, the real you... the loss of that hurts, but not nearly as much as the idea of pretending to be something else did.

[nothorses]

desperately need people to understand that society punishes transmascs for being femme and for being masc, for different expressions of the same reason: "the wrong people" claiming any aspect of manhood or masculinity is a threat to the concept of manhood as well as the gender binary.

they will not accept femme transmascs if they become more masc, and they will not accept masc transmascs if they become more femme, and if they tell you otherwise they're fucking lying & you need to start listening to other transmascs instead of bigots with ulterior motives.

[cripple-punk-dad]

I just started T! And I'm very curious what other doses y'all have so, if you are on T,

I know there's a ton of stigma around testosterone and taking it, so I just wanna lessen the stigma of talking about this stuff!

[of-monsters-and-werewolves]

I think another issue I have with the 'transandrophobia' discourse is that it seemingly conflates transmascs with trans men. Even setting aside that trans men don't have access to the same level of male privilege as cis men do, even if you view trans men as holding power relative to trans women within the community, not all transmascs hold any male privilege at all. Some are nonbinary. Some are butches who view 'butch' as their gender. And if that's the case, dismissing folks discussing anti-transmasc rhetoric specifically as simply 'men's rights activists' becomes all the more ridiculous when you're including the likes of butch enbies or people like Leslie Feinberg.

[pallpokipoki]

I repost this given the context...

Trans women are not your allies and never have been.

1) shutting down trans men talking about their anatomy and their dysphoria

like shutting down trans men complaining about periods by trans women who complain that it makes them dysphoric or that trans men don’t appreciate what they have; it only works this one way - I never saw a trans man scream over a trans woman who was complaining about say random erections that she should appreciate what she has and stop talking about it this way.

2) speaking over trans men on issues related to their biology and socialisation

and in extreme forms even completely denying them a voice on those issuestelling trans men that they do not know what’s it like to be socialised as a girl or treated as a girl and should shut up about it, often simultaneously telling them they also don’t know what’s it like to live as men/be a gnc man, removing trans men from talks about feminism, misogyny, abortion or rape.

3) devictimising trans men

being misogynistic towards them (portraying them as hysterical bitches or mocking their anatomy, for one), or transphobic towards them (calling them shrimpdicks, cuntboys, manlets), and justifying it with them being men and either not being able to be victimised or deserving the harassment; it’s also present as “venting about men” but singling out trans men and never cis men.

4) erasing trans men’s oppression

one element of it is claiming trans men shouldn’t reclaim tranny despite it very well targetting them, or replacing “transphobia” with “transmisogyny” in general discourse, in such ways as to erase trans men as targets of transphobia in order to frame them as oppressors of trans women more.

5) limiting trans men’s freedom and means of describing their oppression

to serve trans women’s interests are always prioritised; it’s “trans men shouldn’t say they were female socialised because it implies trans women were male socialised”, never “trans women shouldn’t say they were female socialised because it erases trans men’s trauma with misogyny".6) constant guilting of trans men who dare speak up against those things, and guilting of trans men into taking a subserviant role in activism

trans men are constantly reminded that they are potentially predatory, potential rapists, just like cis men etc, and that is applied twice as heavily to trans men who disagree or talk back to trans women; the rhetoric is always that they are oppressors of trans women and are victimising them further by “not listening to trans women”.

7) bias in judgement of trans men’s actual societal power and position and spreading misinformation about it

in such a way trans-men will constantly be told trans women get sexually harassed and raped more often, earn less, etc, etc.. despite statistics proving otherwise. bringing up those statistics results in: see point 6. in places with equal numbers of trans men and trans women in power (rare), the trans women will typically still claim there’s more trans men in power and their power is greater.

8) piting up trans men against eachother

urging trans men to “defend trans women” from wrongthinking trans men. demanding that trans men who speak up are ostracised, including from their own circles.

9) undermining the soldiarity trans men may find with lesbians, gnc women or any other AFAB group

that can take form of literally explaining to butches with whom they should and with whom they shouldn’t have solidarity, or speaking aganst “AFAB solidarity”, or arguing that “AFAB people” don’t have any common experiences.

“Those are my experiences from 8 years of being around other trans people. I met cool trans women, but I must admit those things are, unfortunately, a tendency. for clarity, I don’t believe in some crazy mtf conspiracy and hidden agenda. I believe in male born people often sticking with each other against female born people due to misogyny, and in them acting on their socialisation a lot of the time, leading to perserving patriarchal dynamics with opposite pronouns”

[legobabyofficial]

does jason lee know he forever changed the transmasc community by being earl hickey

[transmascissues]

it’s so funny to me that people used to try to warn me “if you go on t it won’t make you androgynous it’ll just make you look like a man” because 1) i do want to look like a man, that is famously a major part of being a trans man but also 2) t literally has made me androgynous?? like they were wrong on both counts. i got most of the looking-like-a-man changes that i wanted (deep voice, broader body, hair all over my body including my face) and i also give every single cis person in a five mile radius a stroke every time they try to figure out my gender. the assumption that trans men wouldn’t actually want to look like men and the assumption that cis people are good at correctly gendering us once we’re on t are both weird as hell.

[femboyposting]

anti transmasculinity is fun cause it is socially acceptable to deny it exists while simultaneously perpetuating it

[transfaguette]

[nothorses]

ayo! i was wondering if u could help me out with a conversation my friend and i were having about transandrophobia?? she was saying that it’s a redundant term because the oppression of transmascs is explained by transmisogyny, and ideas like transmascs are mutilating their bodies/stealing lesbians/just delusional little girls are just regular transphobic things that all trans people experience… and like. somewhat yes. but imo there’s a difference, for example, between “all trans people are delusional” and “transmascs are just confused little girls deluding themselves into thinking they can escape biology”. and i know it’s similar to/mirrors the things people say about transfems, but i don’t see how it’s just transmisogyny when the term is only ever used to talk about the experiences of transfems? and was coined specifically for transfems? anyway, i’m having a hard time putting my reasoning into words, so if u have any ideas for how to counter what she’s saying, i’d really appreciate it!

Sure! I can only really give you my own explanations of the arguments you're describing, but I do wanna say I think you have the right idea here, too.

"The oppression of transmascs is explained by transmisogyny"

So, yes and no: "transmisogyny" on a purely technical level could be argued to just mean "transphobia" + "misogyny", and because transmascs are not actually seen as men (though in many ways we are also not seen as women), we do in fact experience misogyny- and oftentimes that misogyny does come packaged with transphobia.

However, "transmisogyny" was coined by transfems, for transfems, with the intention of describing specifically the type of transphobia that transfems face; which is also informed by misogyny, but in different ways. It can therefore be pretty accurately deconstructed as "trans" + "misogyny", or, "trans" + "women" + [bigotry].

Trying to shoehorn transmascs into the word takes away from that meaning, makes specific discussions of transmisogyny harder, and erases unique transmasc experiences as well. It's trying to replace "transphobia" with "transmisogyny", which is redundant. Why do we need two words for the same thing? We made these words for a reason.

"Ideas like transmascs are mutilating their bodies/stealing lesbians/just delusional little girls are just regular transphobic things that all trans people experience"

"Trans people are mutilating their bodies" is more often levied against transmascs than transfems.

This specific panic of transmascs "mutilating" ourselves stems from the belief that AFAB bodies are obligated to reproduce and be sexually appealing + available. Transmasc transition can altogether remove our ability to get pregnant, and our transitions are seen as making us ugly/undesirable- mostly to straight cis men.

This same rhetoric does not apply to transfems.

"Trans people are stealing gays" is definitely not levied against transfems.

The specific line of rhetoric about "stealing lesbians" comes from:

The radical feminist belief that lesbians are The Most Victims, an Endangered Species Which Must Be Protected- which in turn stems from the misogynistic idea of (white) women as victims/damsels in distress.

The belief that transmascs only transition to "gain male privilege" or "escape misogyny", which feeds into the radical feminist idea of transmascs as Betrayers Of Womanhood.

In combination, transmascs are seen as "stealing lesbians" because we are both betraying and seducing women, and "depleting" the lesbian population and therefore further endangering Lesbians as A Species. (Because even radfems can't help but see lesbians as objects.)

The closest common transfem equivalent would be "transfems are preying on/tricking gay men", which has tones of predatory behavior and sexual deceit that are unique to transmisogyny. Transfems aren't seen as "converting" straight men, but rather "tricking" them into "gay" sex. Because men are viewed as having more autonomy, the "tricked" men in this scenario are given more agency than "stolen" women.

"Trans people are just delusional" is, again, more often levied against transmascs than transfems; specifically because transmascs are seen as lacking in autonomy and agency- while transfems are seen as autonomous and therefore dangerous/deceitful.

Transmascs are "delusional" because we can't possibly know what we really feel, can't make decisions for ourselves, can't think for ourselves or make plans- we aren't tricking people, we honestly believe this silly idea that we're men. We're all little girls, autistic and depressed girls, stupid women who don't know what's best for us and can't be trusted with autonomy. We have to let others make choices for us. (Until, of course, it becomes clear that we're "too far gone", at which point we become The Enemy.)

Transfems are "deceitful" because they know exactly what they're doing, and can only be doing it for nefarious reasons. They're dangerous, they want to hurt and trick people, they want to invade women's spaces to take advantage of them, trick straight men to take advantage of them, satiate their Sexually Aggressive Nature, etc. They have autonomy already- they must be stopped to protect others.

TL;DR:

There is a lot of overlap in trans experiences and trans oppression- that's why the word "transphobia" covers all of this as an umbrella term. But "transmisogyny" and "transandrophobia" exist under that umbrella, as forms of transphobia, in order to describe more specific and unique experiences that aren't the same for every trans person.

Trying to mash it all together makes it harder to talk about the specific issues we face and why we face them, which we need to do in order to solve these problems.

Trying to remove one word in favor of another both makes it harder for one group to talk about their issues, and in many cases dilutes the meaning of the other group's unique term. Not to mention it denies those unique experiences happen at all.

[cripple-punk-dad]

Image ID: a man with short black hair wearing a black suit, white shirt, and tie in front of a dark grey-light grey globe imitating a news caster background. He is speaking, and yellow text under his picture reads "Now this might strike some viewers as harsh, but I believe everyone involved in this story should die."

End ID

Hey fuckers. Some of you may not know this but this meme should really stop being used, the context behind it is disgustingly transphobic and homophobic. The full quote is:

"And finally, in Falls City, Nebraska, John Lotter has been sentenced to death for attempting to kill three people in what prosecutors called a plot to silence a cross-dressing female who had accused him of rape. Now, this might strike some viewers as harsh, but I believe everyone involved in this story should die."

It's from a sketch from SNL, and the joke is about the horrific rape and murder of a trans man named Brandon Teena. Please stop use this, I'm frankly sick of trans men being the butt of the joke and of us being ignored.

[seamanequin]

Sluttiest thing a man can do is have a pussy

[rwprincess]

another great find (steal) from my Simpsons meme group