#when will we get a showrunner who has a hard-on for Cas?

[wellofdean]

Fellas, this quote from Jensen over the weekend... I LIVE!

"There's few people that, when the cameras are rolling, you get to truly create moments that aren't on the page, and it's hard sometimes to find rhythm and cohesiveness with everybody you work with, and when you find the rare person that can...play at a level that makes you want to be better, it's almost like a high, that when the creative juices are flowing, and you are making moments that you maybe didn't even plan to be there, "happy accidents" we used to call 'em, of emotion, or between the lines nuance moments, and I think there's a reason that the story of Cas and Dean skewed to where it was, because I kept being able to have that creative ignition with Mish, when those cameras were rolling that made me a better actor, and made me want to find that even more."

First, what I nice thing to say about Misha! It must be super embarrassing to sit next to a guy who is just singing your praises like a bird all the time.

Second, I know there are those in the fandom who will sieze on the word "accident" and think yeah, it was all just Jensen things, he wants to sit in Misha's lap and twirl his hair, and like...ok, maybe! But, what interests me here is his use of the word 'cohesiveness' and the end, where he is saying that those moments arose because playing opposite Misha made him better at acting, and better at finding nuance and communicating what was not on the page.

I've been thinking a lot about the cohesiveness Supernatural has despite all the writers room/showrunner turnover, because in some ways, particularly character ways, it is REALLY cohesive, and I think a lot of that is down to the actors, and A LOT of what is down to the actors is Jensen, because he is clearly very invested in Dean, and cares a lot about getting Dean right. I mean, he played this complicated, fascinating guy on this silly genre show with his whole heart for 15 years, which is AMAZING and humble and beautiful of him, if you ask me. And I think a lot about how he made Dean so cohesive.

Making a TV show or a film is not just playing out the scenes in order -- it's stopping, resetting, starting again, waiting around, starting, reshooting, etc. And, it really isn't just straightforwardly an emotional journey. I think people really underestimate the professionalism involved, and how fucking great at it Jensen is. What this quote tells me is that moments between Cas and Dean were cathected and emotional in ways he couldn't have predicted, but he KNEW what he was playing, what he was trying for, and that Misha, as an actor, helped him find what he needed to convey in ways he didn't expect and which were a little bit of creative magic. Cas and Dean's story went the way it did because Misha helped him be better at finding nuance and emotion in Dean that wasn't in the words he was there to say, but WAS in Dean.

Guys, I love. Jensen is so not a dumbass. He is so thoughtful in commenting on Dean and I am HERE FOR IT. I have so many questions! Like, I have never been to a con, and kind of feel like it would be embarrassing? But, I have so many questions.

[rosemariad]

Supernatural season 13

I've heard of the widower arc that takes place during the early part of this season but geez

Dean looks so depressed – the desolation, the hopelessness. Poor Dean Bean, lost his angel yet again. You can't help but feel for the poor guy (for now…)

Then the instant 180, uno reverse this man takes in his demeanor. He's so happy Cas is back. AND having a big cowboy adventure! They're spoiling this man after the widower arc. Jack & Sam are not down for it but Dean's been so miserable they shut the fuck up.

Dean swallowing deeply when Cas quotes Tombstone – confirmation they have movie nights together (ALONE??????) if they were alone during these movie nights – they're basically dating w/o clarifying that they are actually dating – and they're coparenting, my goodness! The domestication is real!

We later find out Dean snuck a quick shot of Cas in the little cowboy hat he made him wear for the case. Wow.

But as a side note - I did NOT appreciate how shitty Dean was to Jack. He was basically abusing him verbally like WTF give the kid a damn chance - don’t make death threats to the newborn child that was literally born yesterday like the fuck #jackdefensesquad. Like anything bad that jack actually does, he’ll think back to the moments where Dean was like ‘oh he’s a monster’ ’when you go dark side, I’ll be the one to kill you’ yeah like maybe that’s what pushed him to that point. It’s no surprise Jack chooses to leave. My ass would’ve been gone. Also was Cas made aware of the threats Dean made to Jack???

They’re making it REALLY HARD to like Dean this season. MoC was bad, Demon!Dean too but evil forces were at work. This time he got no excuse — threatening at 16 yr old girl who has no one in her corner. They’re basically forcing her to help them for nothing in return. Unbelievable 🤬 And Sam, wtf? Would it kill you to stand up to your fuckin’ brother!

Anyway - Jack’s power is totally cool though.

Kaia…was killed by an alternate self? Whaaaaaat?

So this was the season they tried for the Wayward Girls? Shame it didn’t work out…like the premise is cool BUT since the main show barely give the women characters the time of day, is it any wonder that a pilot didn’t work? The showrunners only seem good with moments - but no building up of the narrative like the male counterparts AKA main cast. Also - what would be the conflict - give people a reason to keep watching the girls - their storylines seem more or less resolved - Jody has already mourned the loss of her family, its not like she became Batman or something to fight a war against criminality. Claire has also gotten past the loss of her parents (as far as we know but honestly she should’ve been part of the main narrative as her life had been directly affected by Castiel’s actions and we all know why Cas bothers to get up in the morning…anyway), Donna doesn’t seem to have anything going on - she’s divorced but over it, Alex is over her dark past, Patience is just seeming to get a hand of her abilities - like where are the stakes??? Sam and Dean had a whole quest to embark on, then they had to navigate fraternal relationship while fighting monsters all the time, slowly unraveling an overarching narrative that’s taken over their lives. Where’s that for the ladies????

I spoke too soon - Donna’s niece gets kidnapped and Doug is her boyfriend (wow totally forgot about that guy, certainly didn’t think he’d return) and once he gets turned into a vampire but cured of it, he’s done. Before he leaves Donna, he calls her a hero. Honestly, if I ended up having a partner/lover who killed dangerous supernatural creatures, I wouldn’t leave them. I’d stick by them and have them teach me a few things. Oh well. Maybe Donna will run to Jody to have a shoulder to cry on ;) I know y’all JodyxDonna shippers are out there.

Scoobynatural was fucking legendary! I loved watching Scooby doo as a kid, from when they were literal babies, to the OG episodes, to the revamp from the early 2000s, all the movies! (Zombie Island was the best!). It was a genuine delight watching the Winchesters (and Cas) cross paths with Mystery Inc. makes me wish they met Buffy and Ash from Evil Dead. That would’ve been awesome! Watching Dean say scooby dooby doo was total cringe tho :/ I love that Cas shut him down 🤣🤣

That ascot though? He’s wearing it all wrong, its supposed to be stuffed in, like how Fred wears it. And certainly not worn with plaid. SMH…

But now I totally want Supernatural as a fucking cartoon! Just like Scooby Doo - it would’ve been fucking glorious, Dean’s unhinge-able jaw, the kooky facial expressions, the comedic effects, and who knows, it would’ve given the show-runners the artistic freedom to reveal the true form of angels, namely, Castiel’s. Oh well.

Donatello is…dead? I know they said Brain dead but after Amara sucked out his soul and Cas fucked up his brain, isn’t he better off dead? Par for the course for a prophet though, sucks for him.

Funny how Rowena suddenly wants to be the good mom and try to bring her demon son back after CENTURIES of chances. Sure she may not have known what became of Fergus since she left him, but I’m sure it wouldn’t have taken much to find out. She just didn’t want to. Now she’s filled with regret. And Sam’s destined to murder her? And she didn’t take him out? Okay, well then I guess it’s only a matter of time until she dies😒 not this season though, she’s too useful with her witchy powers to be killed off until she serves whatever purpose is convenient 😒

Angels are almost extinct :( I know they’re meant to be seen as controlling jerks but so is Dean XD lol anyway that’s a bummer with devastating consequences cuz if there’s no angels - they said all the souls will fall to Earth and become ghosts - billions in number - yeah. If it were me I would’ve just said the souls disappear but it ain’t my show 🤷🏽‍♀️

Naomi is back and I don’t even care - I’m sorry but I just don’t care about Apocalypse world either, I feel like it’s a grand waste of time. The fact that Charlie and Bobby are there doesn’t even matter cuz it’s not them. It’s not the Charlie and Bobby we got to know before. They’re just counterparts of another world, echoes of the fallen. When Dean says I can’t lose you, dude you literally just met her. And they’re expected to what, abandon the world they were born into? The fuck?

And fuck this show for killing Kevin TWICE!!! Kevin you were too precious for this universe/multiverse, whatever.

ketch is the latest (aside from rowena) of former villains/enemies/antagonist in supernatural that's suddenly we're supposed to be sympathetic towards since they switch sides and help the winchesters for a change but what's the reason??? I feel it's a little out there that Dean especially would let ketch live after what he put his mom through but whatever. since the show runners insisted with this whole apocalypse world crap, Dean would have died without ketch's help 😑

Gabriel has returned…only to die…again…awesome. at least he got to fuck rowena before he passed away 🤣😅

Luci got fucked over hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha

Bobby x Mary, oh man John would be roaring in his grave…if he had one 🤣 [got burned to ashes in season 2], Bobby finna take his whole family, first his sons now his wife ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Luci resurrected someone? And nothing bad happened? Now tht’s a twist. I figured since he’s Satan she’d turn into a demon or something, but i guess not cuz we’re definitely not gonna see her again…

You know since I’ve seen The Boys I can see a resemblance between homelander and the devil, they both blow up in anger very similarly. When jack tells Luci, you’re not my father, he raged in a way that was eerily like Homelander would’ve. Just thought I’d point that out…

Dean lets in Alt-Michael - Oh Lord above its the apocalypse all over again (this was a cool shot though) - meanwhile what’s OG Michael doing? Is he still in the Cage with Adam? Really? You had to bring an extra Michael into this nonsense? Ok 🙄 You know if Luci had possessed Sam too, it would’ve been a wrap!

Jack is powerless…for now? This poor kid was gonna kill himself?! Honey why? Ugh I’m blaming Dean for this. He put the seed in that kid’s head he was nothing but trouble and he was going to sacrifice himself, poor baby!

Cas why would you let Dean go?!?! Too sad to follow him into battle after Dean let Alt-Michael in?

Why can’t Sam get a super powerful Big Bad kill huh? Why is it always Dean? Geez.

So the only good things to happen this season were Scooby Doo and Jack meeting Cas. Ugh, their meetup was soo cute ^_^

Welp only 2 seasons left, the last that’s over 20 episodes. Which means we only have 40 episodes to go til the end…goodie 😅

[casandpuppies]

Okay, but I see people talking about how heartbreaking Dean’s prayer to Chuck was, and I guess it would be if not for one thing that keeps me from taking it seriously...LITERALLY WHY WOULD DEAN GIVE A SHIT ABOUT CROWLEY? At best, Crowley is a convenient tool for when the Winchesters need something done. He is not their friend. He’s not their ally. He was the King of Hell, and he was always out for himself. He’d take whatever side is most beneficial to him. Yeah, he helped the Winchesters on occasion, but how many times did he double-cross them too? There is no reason for Dean to want Crowley back. There’s no reason for him to feel anything other than “oh, well he was a pain in the ass but he could be useful at times,” at best.

JFC, stop trying to make Crowley as important to Dean as Cas. The very idea that Dean and Crowley’s relationship is even in the same league as his relationship with Cas is utterly laughable. Fuck you, writers. Stop trying to compare them. Crowley was a piece of shit. He didn’t need or deserve a redemption arc. He doesn’t deserve a speck of Dean’s grief. Stop trying to make Cas’ death less meaningful by putting him on the same level as Crowley.

God, this show’s hard-on for Crowley remains even after the Carver-era, and even after he was written off the show. :\ Meanwhile, their disdain for Cas and Cas fans rings loud and clear.

[castiellesbian]

i feel like i need a glossary of terms or a contact list for all these people involved with the show. i have shit memory and dont pay attention to the credits who is sera (sara??) and why does everyone hate her!! why is he Bobo!!!!!! please... has anyone posted about this im desperate

lol well including everyone involved with the show would be difficult, but I’ll give you some highlights

Eric Kripke: creator of Supernatural, showrunner for seasons 1-5. People have differing opinions about him but general people enjoyed his run and he’s considered the best showrunner in the series overall. Not much to say because there’s a lot to say lmao (notable episodes: “Pilot,” “Lazarus Rising,” and “Swan Song”)

Sera Gamble: writer who was involved from the beginning of the show, became showrunner after Kripke left. Her seasons, 6 and 7, are typically regarded as the weakest seasons. She was a huge brothers-only supporter, and was responsible for Misha being written out of the show (as well as Jim Beaver, Bobby) in order to get the show to just be about the brothers again. There’s a lot of drama regarding her treatment of Misha/Cas, but more recently she’s known for the Magicians debacle, a horrendous example of the Bury Your Gays trope. She’s also involved with (the showrunner of?) You on Netflix. She was a pretty good writer, but overall fans dislike her because of her showrunning tenure (notable episodes: “Faith” with Raelle Tucker, “Death’s Door,” “The Born-Again Identity”)

Jeremy Carver: writer from season 3 that was promoted to showrunner from seasons 8 through.... some time in 12, the timeline has been a little murky to me. He was the one who brought Cas back into the main plot, as well as allowing the deancas storyline to become genuine subtext (we can argue whether it was queerbaiting or what he was intending to do if he had been running the series finale, but yeah). Unfortunately, he was also the showrunner when Charlie was killed off brutally, which dampens his legacy. People are conflicted about his seasons, but generally he’s looked upon favorably (not related, but the picture that comes up when you search him on google is NOT him, he’s really like a typical white nerdy looking dude lol) (notable episodes: “The Rapture,” “Sacrifice,” “Do You Believe in Miracles?”)

Andrew Dabb: writer from season 4, promoted to showrunner during season 12 and is the last showrunner of Supernatural (he wrote the finale). He was well-liked by deancas fans for awhile because of how much screentime they were allowed to give, and because of the focus on extended/found family. Sam and Dean only fans didn’t like him for the same reasons. Unfortunately, HIS legacy has been marred by the awful series finale, though it’s debated whether that was his fault or because of network meddling. (notable episodes: “Dark Side of the Moon” with Daniel Loflin, “The Prisoner,” “Moriah”)

Robert Singer: executive producer since the beginning of the show (he’s also co-showrunner throughout Supernatural, but I don’t think he typically was involved with the plotlines too often). He’s directed quite a few episodes, including the infamous wire fight episode (s13 finale) as well as the series finale. Married to Eugenie Ross-Leming, writer of the show

Eugenie Ross-Leming/Brad Buckner: writing partners TECHNICALLY from season 1, but they only wrote one episode until they were brought back in season 7. They are regarded as the worst writers in all of Supernatural, responsible for tactless death scenes of fan-favorites (and typically minorities) like Kevin, Charlie, and Eileen. They also feature a gross amount of dubcon/noncon, racism, weird unnecessary sex stuff, and are SUPER into Lucifer for some unknown reason (they have a crush on Mark Pellegrino I guess). They’re also just kind of bad writers in general, their pacing is weird and their plots convoluted. To be fair, though, they have written some good moments, like Dean trying to reach Cas in Hell’s Angel and Dean’s confessional scene in Paint It Black. But overall, they suck. Why are they still on the show even though BOTH sides of the fandom (who never agree on ANYTHING) dislike them? Well, because Eugenie is married to Singer. Nepotism. (notable episodes, the ones I can stand to watch lmao: “Holy Terror,” “Hell’s Angel,” “Our Father Who Aren’t in Heaven”)

Ben Edlund: writer from season 2 who left after season 8, but people STILL talk about him simply because he is arguably the strongest writer of the series. Cas fans particularly like him because he did most of the heavy-lifting regarding Cas’ characterization. He also wrote the famous bi!Dean scene with Aaron in season 8, where Dean is flustered after being flirted with. (notable episodes: “On the Head of a Pin,” “The French Mistake,” and my all-time favorite “The Man Who Would Be King”)

Robert “Bobo” Berens: writer from season 9, his first episode was “Heaven Can’t Wait,” which is all you really need to know about his influence on the deancas storyline. He’s also gay, so people particularly enjoy seeing how he approaches destiel in his episodes since it’s not just another straight guy potentially just catering to fans. He was also the one who was meant to go off and run Wayward Sisters, and is responsible for a lot of their development in recent seasons. I believe he also created Rowena? He wrote the episode this season where Cas confesses his love to Dean (along with other heavy deancas episodes like “The Trap”). Sam fans typically don’t like him because he doesn’t give him much focus. (notable episodes: “Heaven Can’t Wait,” “Who We Are,” “Wayward Sisters” with Andrew Dabb)

Steve Yockey: writer from season 12 through the beginning of season 15. Also gay, and also responsible for deancas moments in recent years. Generally loved for his deancas subtext but ALSO because he is an amazing writer who came out with iconic episodes. (notable episodes: “Celebrating the Life of Asa Fox,” “Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets,” “Peace of Mind” with Meghan Fitzmartin)

Robbie Thompson: writer from seasons 7 through 11, and wrote some fan favorite episodes in the meantime. He is also the creator of fan favorite characters like Charlie and Eileen. He was also one of the few writers who was vocally supportive of destiel during his tenure rather than just later. I’m not implying anything about his intentions, but it was validating for him to encourage fans during a time where most of the cast/crew ignored or actively dismissed it. Plus his episodes are just fun! (notable episodes: “LARP and the Real Girl,” “Fan Fiction,” “Baby”)

Meredith Glynn: writer since season 12, has worked closely with Bobo during their seasons together. She and Bobo cowrote “The Future,” which is the mixtape episode, so she has been taken in by deancas fans haha. She also wrote the episode where Cas makes the deal with the Empty, so it’s pretty safe to say she and Bobo had worked on the deancas plotline together :) She’s also liked some deancas-related tweets on twitter, so she’s being subtly supportive (notable episodes: “Regarding Dean,” “The Future” with Robert Berens, “Byzantium”)

Davy Perez: writer since season 12 (a lot of the ones I’ve mentioned are, since this is when Dabb became showrunner and made changes in the writers room). His episodes tend to either be horror or bizarre. I mention him because he’s responsible for episodes like “Stuck in the Middle (With You)” (Cas’ first “I love you”) and “Tombstone” (aka Brokebacknatural lmao). I don’t know much about him otherwise, but that’s why he’s brought up usually (notable episodes: “Stuck in the Middle (With You),” “Tombstone,” “Atomic Monsters”)

hopefully this helps, and hopefully I didn’t forget about anyone major. There have been a LOT of people behind the scenes so it’s hard to say who to include. Like, I didn’t mention Jerry Wanek, Jim Michaels, Kim Manners, Thomas J. Wright, or others who might be mentioned from time to time.

[sortasirius]

“Inherit the Earth” and the Fakeout

Absolutely genius.  Amazing, iconic, legendary, something only our showrunner Andrew Dabb can pull off.

"But Lilly, the episode was so bad!  It was just the brothers, they didn’t look for Cas and Eileen!”

YES.  THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT.  THIS WAS A FAKE ENDING, THE END OF THE SEASON, NOT OF THE SERIES.

Let’s get into it.

An empty world.  No one left but Sam, Dean, and Jack.

So Dean ran, he somehow managed to pick himself up off the floor of the dungeon and meet up with Sam and Jack.  That jacket was this silent reminder.  Remember what I’ve been saying, Cas has occupied the negative space all season, this is no exception.

Dean can’t look either of them in the face, he’s doing that thing, where his eyes move everywhere BUT where he should look. 

“I couldn’t save anybody.”

Sam couldn’t save the world and Dean couldn’t save the one person that means the world to him.

“Where’s Cas?”

“Dean?”

I think it’s there, in that pause where Dean tries to push down the emotions, continue the fight, not think about the memories he left in the bunker, that Jack realizes what must have happened. Jack is the only one that knows about the deal, he has to know what Cas not being there must mean.

“He saved me.  Billie was coming after us.  Cas summoned the Empty.  It took her...and took him.  Cas is gone.”

This may shock you, but I am GLAD they didn’t talk about Cas, especially with what happens at the end of the episode.  Cas is allowed to just take up unsaid space.  It’s obvious he’s missing with the way they blocked things, obvious he’s missing here.  This whole “oh well they don’t care about Cas because they didn’t talk about him”?  Malarkey.

“Jack I’m sorry.”

Guilt.  Regret.  Pain.  Dean will carry this with him for the rest of his life.  Not only that he lost Cas, but that Sam lost Cas, that Jack lost Cas.

That SHOT, with the distance between Jack and Sam where Cas is SUPPOSED TO BE, and then a zoom out to...THE WORLD.

Okay, as usual, Bucklemming has the subtlety of a sledgehammer lmao.

Jack crying???  Praying to Cas????  Bruh?????

Also it’s just straight-up frightening for everything around my boy to die he is my baby son.

Also not to point out the incredibly obvious, but Dean starts drinking immediately, and continues drinking throughout the whole episode.  Grief arc 2.0 babey.

“We can what, Dean?  There’s no one left to save!  Everybody’s gone!”

“You can’t just give up.”

“What other choice do we have!”

Idk why, but for Sam, who’s the constant, the one who’s always had hope, through everything, through all these years, when he finally says this, when he finally loses his hope?  It hits the hardest.  Sam is the leader, so not only is he grieving the loss of Eileen, he is a general grieving the loss of his soldiers, his friends, the world that he feels the duty to save.

When they go to meet Chuck, I just can’t get that image of Dean, leaning against the car, handprint still on his jacket, staring at the ground out of my head.  It takes him a few seconds to catch up to Sam, like he’s pulled out of thoughts like deep dark water.  Remember friends, it doesn’t have to be loud to be powerful.

Chuck wearing BLACK?  FEAR.

“That’s right, the whole Cain and Abel thing.  Us dead, whatever.  I’ll kill Sam, Sam’ll kill me, we’ll kill each other.  Okay, you pick.  But first?  You gotta put everything back the way it was.  The people, the birds...Cas.  You gotta bring him back.”

Willing to kill his brother.  Willing to die.  Tears in his eyes, begging God to bring Cas back.

And Chuck?  Chuck doesn’t care about their surrender, he knows he’s already got them beaten.  He cares about their pain, he cares about them suffering, because to him?  That’s the entertainment.  He’s not entertained by their found family, by their happiness, by their joy.  He wants them to suffer, all of them.

“Eternal shame.  Suffering.  And loneliness.”

And he leaves them with just that.  No hope, no family, just the three of them, broken, alone.  Jack locked in his bedroom, Sam trying desperately to make life “normal” again.  And Dean.  Dean who drank so much he passed out on the floor.

He doesn’t feel terrific, he feels like shit, because not only is he dealing with the shame of an empty planet, he’s dealing with the guilt of being back in the place where the Empty took Cas.

This whole thing with the dog was just absolutely heartwrenching shit and if I didn’t hate Chuck before, him snapping Miracle right in front of an already fragile Dean would seal that deal.

I just want everyone to know that this is a Jake Abel stan account.

“Daddy’s boy” is a big insult for my boy Dean to use considering his own past with his trash abusive father but I’ll allow it.

I do think it’s interesting, ending of his arc aside, that Michael is willing to help them now.  What changed?  Sure, he ended up trying to help Chuck, running back to his father, but why get back in the game?  I wonder if it has anything to do with the loss of Adam.  It’s an interesting parallel, a man loses his angel while an angel loses his human.

Everything is so DARK in the Bunker now too, even the lighting is loud.

When I tell you I lost my shit when I saw Cas was calling Dean, when I heard Misha’s voice??  I knew it didn’t make any sense but I didn’t care, I would’ve been one step behind Dean as he sprinted towards the door.

Fuck you, Eugenie.

I mean it’s torture not only to Dean, who looks beyond fucking crushed when it’s damn Lucifer at the door, but for us too.  Who the FUCK wanted Lucifer back?  And to tease Cas???  Garbage.

I mean...fam.  Listen, we know who’s writing this episode, this whole Betty thing is just like blatantly unnecessary but again, Eugenie loves Lucifer, gotta distract her with a shiny toy lmao.

It was cool to see Michael and Lucifer onscreen together.  It was a cool dynamic that we rarely got to see.

The whole episode is just twist after twist.  Listen, it’s their last episode so I guess they needed to fit in a season worth of twists in one episode.

Bye Lucifer.  We know Eugenie can’t bring him back.  Blessings to all.

This scene with Adam is the FOURTH scene where Dean is drinking...big yikes to my guy’s liver.

Here’s the thing about Michael.  He’s a mirror for Dean in season 5.  Loyal to an absent father.  He has never changed, but Dean has.  Dean is able to acknowledge now, the trauma that his father put him through, he was able to move past the need for pleasing him at any cost.  Michael and Chuck?  Are John and Dean, if Dean had never been allowed to grow.  And Chuck proves, like John did, that he would always put his wants (in John’s case “the mission”) over his children.

Also not to beat a dead horse but Michael’s death was also peak Eugenie.

Sam getting to punch Chuck in the face?  Thank you, he deserves that.

Obviously I don’t love any scene of my boys getting brutally beaten.  But what I love, what I will always love about them, is what Chuck hates about them:  they won’t ever give up.  They know they won’t win against him, they don’t even land any hits, but that’s not what matters.  What matters is their controller doesn’t control them anymore, that they really are free.  No matter how hard they get hit, the get back up.  It is their choice to stand up to him, no matter the cost.

The moment where Sam and Dean are supporting each other, covered in blood, and they look God in the face, and they laugh.  That is why I will love them unconditionally for the rest of my life.  That is who they are, they will never cow to the villain, whether that’s Azazel or Alastair or Zachariah or Lucifer or Amara or Death or Metatron or Cain or God.  They will always choose to stand up.

“Why are you smiling?”

“Because.  You lose.”

Chills.  What a line.

And Chuck is left, small, human, no longer a villain, no longer anything.

Gotta be real, woulda been nice to, idk, not see all this essential plot in a flashback, but I know I can only ask so much of Bucklemming.

For Dean to walk away from killing Chuck, right after he’s called him “the ultimate killer” is quite simply the most beautifully heartwrenching thing I could ever ask for.  Because that’s who Dean was under Chuck, that’s who Chuck wanted him to be.

And he would have before:

But he’s heard some things since then, heard some things about how others see him.  Not as the killer, not as a monster, not as angry and broken or his daddy’s blunt instrument:

I’m not saying that Dean doesn’t kill Chuck for Cas.  He doesn’t kill Chuck because he doesn’t think he has to anymore, he doesn’t kill Chuck because he listened to Cas, he took Cas’ words to heart.  He made the choice not to be the killer.

“See that’s not who I am, that’s not who we are.”

And Chuck is angry, because he thought, after everything, even after losing, that he would still know Dean well enough to know that he would kill him.  But Chuck has never really known Dean, he has never understood where he’s really come from.  Cas understood, Sam and Jack understand, but Chuck never did, and writing off Dean as angry and broken is his biggest mistake, because that’s never been Dean.

“It’s not his power anymore.”

And it’s not just his physical power, it’s his power over the story, over the boys that’s the real power taken from him.

For Jack to be the one to bring everyone back, for him to be the hero of the story?  That’s poetic right there.  Now, I will say, I don’t think this story ends with him as God, because for him, the child, to take on this burden, it doesn’t make a ton of sense to me for his arc, but we shall see next week.  It felt pretty tied up, but there’s one major loose end: and that’s Jack seeing Cas again.

“Just you and me, going wherever the story takes us.  Just us.”

“Finally free.”

This doesn’t feel triumphant to me, it doesn’t feel like relief.  It feels like they’ve settled, like this is the best they’re going to get, so they might as well make the best of it, at least they have each other.

For Cas and Jack to be carved into the table?  I cry.

And for the montage, very similar to “Swan Song” to be set to “Runnin on Empty”?  Sorry but that’s just too sus to be ignored.

They packaged this episode as an ending, because for many, it might be.  The season’s story, the season about fighting Chuck is over.  So, you might be asking (or, well, screaming, judging by my replies lol), what’s left?  And that’s a good question, Chuck has been defeated, so what is left?  What’s left is what’s really mattered all season: the relationships that have been crafted over the years.  Dean and Sam’s unhappiness at the end of the episode, where “just you and me” sounded more of a grudging acceptance than anything else, is one of the clues that has to be looked at.  Why didn’t Sam find Eileen, why didn’t Jack bring back Cas?  Those two characters specifically are the ones we need to watch out for.  As I’ve said over and over again, peace, contentment, satisfaction, those don’t come from Sam and Dean on the open road together anymore.  They have a family, more of a family than they did when they started hunting together all those years ago, and that family is what holds them together.  They need each other, of course, but each other isn’t enough anymore.  Sam needs Eileen, Dean needs Cas.  That is where they will find their peace.

This episode, as many written by Bucklemming was sloppy, rushed, packed full of shit, and had little gems that we can talk about forever, but that was the end of the season, and next week?  Andrew Dabb brings us home, where Dean and Sam will finally be able to choose what they want for themselves, and that, my friends, is Eileen and Cas.

[deanwasalwaysbi]

I've gotta say, I find the concept of Bedlund trying to Ben-Hur Jensen absolutely hysterical. I'm just imagining Jensen getting a script and being like "Ben?? What's this? Is this gay? This seems gay????" and Ben just soothing him like a frightened horse.

Hahaha - Look it wouldn't be the first time. What is this verb we're working with? Okay. Strap in everyone. The Multi-Oscar-winning 1959 movie 'Ben Hur' had a bunch of gay subtext. The writer, the director, and the second lead actor all knew that Charlton Heston's character, Ben Hur, was gay. However, one person didn't find out until the 1990s: Charlton Heston. The consensus on set was "Don’t tell Charlton, because he’ll freak out." and when Heston found out in the ninties, freak out was exactly what he did. (x) [the movie may have gotten a reference from Misha back in season 6 (x)]

Whether this happened with Jensen on SPN depends on two things.

Was the character of Dean intentionally written as Bi and, if so, at what point did that become true?

Did anyone tell Jensen? Did he figure it out? if so, when?

I personally DO believe at this point, I really do, that Bedlund - Ben Hur'd Jensen. I think it was part of the writers room but not all of it, until it was. (Which RN I believe finally happened under Dabb.) I think Jensen wasn't in on it, until he was. So for me? I think he really was in the dark at one point. But at what point that changed? Probably only he can answer that question. and RN? He ain't talking.

In the meantime we can only look at things Jensen has said on the subject - Like this unbearably ambiguous GIF set from @nikadd. Was this tongue in cheek? Legitimate ignorance? You're killing me, Jensen. That cheeky lil smile, Jensen. Nvm - I'm going to kill you instead. It's for my own survival. No hard feelings right? You understand.

UH OH HERE COMES A CUT TO HIDE A LONG DERANGED POST...

We can look at the text for number 1 - and I do that uh - a lot - see the blog name #Dean Was Always Bi

For number 2 we can look over some points when we got clues from what Jensen thought was going on [regardless of whether they make sense based on his jacting or directorial choices I guess] and get left wondering whether at any point he felt pressured to lie for his career, for self protection, or to protect the narrative from the network: 

2010 - 'We're missing the gay angel' (x) (Season 5 gag reel) (x) “Sorry man, not what the show’s about.” Jared: One of the good and bads about playing the straight [non-comedic] character on the show… Jensen: What wait? I’ve been playing him so wrong

2012 / S8 - Trenchcoat - Jensen talking about how sometimes they change the lines because they're way too gay. Calls Cas a third brother

2012 - "What's Destiel?" Ben Edlund: That’s some weird shit. Jensen: Is this something that you created, Ben? Ben: You don’t want any part of that.

“Don’t ruin it for everyone now” “I still don’t know what the question was. I’m going to pretend I don’t know what the question was.”

2013 @ JIB, re Dean’s reaction to Aaron’s flirting in the season 8 episode Everybody Hates Hitler,  (x)

“And the scene wasn’t written to be that kind of - I mean - It was written to be awkward.  Ben Edlund wrote the - my favorite line in that scene was ‘carry on . citizen’ that was - I almost couldn’t say that with a straight face I was laughing so hard.  But it was - you know - it was comedy. It was a comedic moment in the show and fortunately Dean gets a lot of the comedic moments in the show and it was just, you know, Ben was poking fun at the fact that - you know, how can we make this very kind of manly, heterosexual guy uncomfortable - uh -you know, or  or have him back on his heels and throw him off his game a little bit.”

The thing is - Bedlund and Phil Sgriccia made very clear on the commentary track that THEY saw this scene as a 'romantic comedy kind of fluster' "This potential for love in all places."

Ben Edlund calling the writer’s room a boy’s club in 2013 (x)

Misha Collins telling Destiel fans they aren’t Crazy in 2013 after some executives said they were (x).

2014 Jensen says he was glad there wasn’t much Dean and Cas in season 9  - HA Hah HAH (x)

“I think the whole Cas and Dean thing has gotten out of hand”  “I don’t think there’s anything secret to their relationship even though a lot of people wish there was” REMINDER - that season we got the nightstands acknowledgement and “play him like a jilted lover” and the “he dumped me James” cut and -

I certainly know that Misha and I don’t play that. SIGH. they Ben Hur'd Jensen.

2014 - the fan fiction joke - 10.05

“I didn’t have a positive reaction, The first time in I think 200 scripts I went and sat down in the showrunners office and said, ‘What in god’s name are you doing?! Why? I need to understand why this is happening.’” “[Carver] gave very eloquent answers and did a great job of explaining why we were doing what we were doing, I guess I had been aware of this ‘fan fiction’ for a while and I felt like maybe if I ignored it, it would eventually go away. When I read it in the script that is what I do for a living and is my work—I’m very protective of these characters and the story and I think we have a right to be—I wasn’t angry. I just wanted to understand why and what was the message we were ultimately sending with this script and story. By the end of it, I felt good and it gave me all the confidence I needed. It was better than I could have ever hoped.”

But then there's Jensen in 2015 talking about all of Dean’s bromances. (x)  [gifs at the top] Could go either way - starting to figure it out? or No?

What had changed if anything? the entire Crowely season 10 story line?  This was July 2015 - the same day as the SDCC 2015 panel where Misha talked about Destiel   (x @ 13) Carver and Dabb were there - 

By this time Jensen and Misha were nominated for a teen choice award for best chemistry against various tv couples (and one ensemble cast, but the award nomination did NOT include Jared) .... Misha and Jensen would go on to WIN this award one month after the panel.

At the Panel Rob and Rich ask the question: “You two have branded yourselves as TV’s greatest team since, ... idk who.... Ernie and Bert so.”  [Misha says to Jensen & Jared, half not on the microphone: “I really didn’t expect them to throw us under the bus.”] “are we going to see that continue? Is the Castiel Dean relationship still aflutter and still growing as we move into season 11?”  Jeremy Carver: “Ish.” [mocking from panel ensues] “Yes. Of course. I mean Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. There’s no doubt.”

Jensen Directs 11x03 and the choreo mimics Goodbye stranger (x)

2016 - Jensen: Dean could have a huntress, but you’d kill her.

Jan 2017 Con the infamous - no hedge - harsh - “Destiel doesn’t exist.” (x)

I would hope that if he knew he wouldn’t have been so harsh with it.  So by that point either he still didn’t know - OR - to him ‘Destiel’ was specifically about internet porn/sex and not like - the potential for feelings / a relationship.  It makes me think about something Misha had actually said, around 2013, “It’s called ‘Destiel’ and it’s about the romantic interludes between Dean and Castiel.” (x)

2017 - jib8 Jensen called Dean a lover of the ladies

May 2017 - After filming the end of season 12:

2018 - Misha confirms he and Jensen have talked about Destiel (x) - also 2018: The Bisexual Dean essay "? No." (Oh god was this really this recent?! I can't deal with this.)

Well. SOMETHING happened in 2019. cuz here it comes

2019 - "Dean has no taste, clearly." 2019 - 'So, tell us just a little bit about what you're most excited to tackle with your character this final season.' "Cas. Just like a full football form tackle."

Look at this face he gave Dean when Cas told him he loved him and tell me he wasn't playing into it here. You can't. (x)

[demonologist-in-denim]

Okay, let’s get into this, because I have put off talking about Crowley’s cut monologue from 12x23 for long enough. If you haven’t already, you can read it here, or in this great gifset.

I absolutely see why this was cut. And I’m only acknowledging it here to talk about why I not only think it doesn’t add anything to Crowley’s story or our understanding of him, but how it actually detracts from it. After that, I intend to ignore it and let it fade away into the ether of the spn fandom. That being said, deleted scenes and cut scripts live in a sort of canonical limbo – you can choose for yourself whether to accept them as canon, consider them glimpses from some alternative universe, or do away with them entirely. I’m choosing the latter in this instance.

(This was meant to be a post, but it turned into an essay.)

Whomever wrote this was either unfamiliar with Crowley as a character, or was intentionally twisting the character in such a way as to fit into the convenient narrative that removed him from the show. Blame it on Chuck in text, blame it on the showrunners outside of text, whatever your preference – this doesn’t read like Crowley.

There are very few parts of this monologue that felt in character, that read like something Crowley would say. Not just in the tone or the choice of words, but the openness of it. And that’s coming from someone who writes reformed and/or human Crowley, with his admittance to remorse and shame and love. In this cut script, he is uncharacteristically vulnerable, sharing self-reflections he would never have shared aloud at this point in his character development. His dialogue lacks the layers of meaning or deflection that Crowley would normally employ, that he employed everywhere else in the show, even when being emotionally vulnerable.

That’s not to say that Crowley didn’t think or feel these things – I will argue to the end of my days (in spn fandom) that after the cure, Crowley hated himself. He hated that he was alone and unloved. Some part of that was due to being a demon and the horrible, evil, messy things he’d done, and some of it he believed was due to his inherent lack of worth. And I think this monologue was written in part to have Crowley make that final confession out loud. Final because, if that’s the case and he’s willing to admit it – to his former enemies and now the only people he really has in his life – his story can only take one of two directions: redemption or death. Embrace the desire for change and move forward as a reformed demon and full Winchester ally, or dramatically (and unnecessarily) sacrifice himself.

And there is a way to write that, but with Crowley properly in character and with the emotional complexity we know him to possess, not this blatant declaration. Maybe the line would have worked depending on how Mark Sheppard played it, and it only falls so flat because it’s just a script – I’m willing to allow for that. But this moment, facing down the boys after letting Lucifer loose, in front of an audience of Mary Winchester that he doesn’t know well and isn’t comfortable with, it doesn’t feel like a moment for Crowley to be this open, this vulnerable, about something so personal and so monumental.

I’ve no doubt that Crowley expected the Winchesters would one day kill him, “for good this time.” He was a demon working alongside a pair of hunters; there was always going to be that risk. Crowley was intelligent, one of the smartest characters on the show. He had to know that was how things would play out – either that, or he would die on their behalf, or because of their actions, even if he had ended up leaving Hell and joining Team Free Will. That was what happened to people around the Winchesters. Crowley warned Kevin of that himself. “They use people up, and leave them to die bloody.” Crowley knew. And as he internalized more and more of his blood-born conscience, Crowley had to believe on some level that he deserved it, especially if he hated himself and what he’d done.

But once again, if Crowley was going to say something like that, that’s not how he’d say it. It would be as a dismissive aside, or a knife in Dean’s gut in a moment of intense emotion between the two of them, or as a rebuke that the Winchesters badly deserved. Or better yet, as something remarked between himself and Cas, who Crowley likely suspected would outlast him but also ultimately die in service of the Winchester cause. Words like those have power. And it’s unlike Crowley to lay them down in supplication like this. It doesn’t even feel like a heart-felt confession, like his monologue in 8x23. It reads like someone wrote what was meant to be under Crowley’s words, the intention behind his dialogue, the much-exalted subtext, but failed to add all the layers on top of it, to put it in actual character.

I’m just going to bundle the whole beginning of the monologue together and toss it out entirely. Firstly because I’ve argued more than once that Crowley is an unreliable narrator when it comes to his human life. What we know of it from Rowena comes with an agenda, and what we know of it from Gavin comes from a man who had a difficult relationship with his father. It’s about as reliable as young Dean telling stories to Sammy about their parents’ time together. And there’s canonical errors in this monologue to back that up – we know Crowley wasn’t buried in a pauper’s grave, because we saw it 6x04. The “dying in a puddle of his own sick” is a great detail in terms of storytelling, but it’s almost directly repeated from Rowena, who said it as a belittling comment to a young Fergus. It’s too forced. And we know at least Gavin came to the funeral, because he tells us so in a deleted scene in 12x13 (remember what I said about getting to pick and choose when it comes to cut scripts and deleted scenes?).

But more importantly – and this is the part that really grates – Crowley’s iteration of his human life reinforces the narrative of absolute morality in the spn universe. It supports the argument that if a character becomes a demon, it must be because they were a terrible person. There is no room for human flaws, for characters to have made mistakes – and that doesn’t just hinder characters in terms of backstory, but in character development and emotional growth moving forward. It’s a stance spn takes more than once, and especially with non-human characters, though never in regards to the Winchesters. The Winchesters can become soulless or demons, but they were “always good” before that, so they are deserving of redemption. If Crowley or other non-humans were “always bad,” that absolves the Winchesters from seeing them as people deserving of help, or of their ability to change, or even to be seen as beings deserving of any level of respect or agency. And it absolves the showrunners from writing a character capable of development, of being able to grow beyond their previous flaws.

That’s not to say that Fergus MacLeod wasn’t some or all of those things. But if he was a complex character – if he was a person, as all stories should aim to present their characters – then he was all of that and more, just as the Winchesters are their virtues and their faults all wrapped up in an individual person. And if Crowley had brought this up some other time, in reference to his human life, none of this discussion would be necessary. It would be easy to say: he’s an unreliable narrator, and this provides us with insight into how Crowley feels about himself, and it would be interesting and valuable. But here, it’s used in justification for Crowley’s status as irredeemable – which is not true – and as part of justification for what happens next.

Crowley’s death was written by the showrunners as an excuse to remove him from the show – attribute that to budget costs for the show, or running out of story ideas for Crowley, or creative laziness, whatever you want. And within spn, it can be attributed to Chuck not wanting another character like Cas muddling up his Winchester Brothersᵀᴹ grand narrative. I’ve written before both in posts and in fic about how Crowley’s character-central instinct for self-preservation crumbles into depression after losing Hell and the seemingly-irreversible depletion of his and Dean’s friendship in 12x23. And that this ushers in a desire to End in such a way that achieves revenge against Lucifer (not a significant motivation, in my opinion, you’ve got to outlive your enemies to win against them), earns him the appreciation of the Winchesters, saves the world (proving his capacity for good), and brings about an end to his waiting. Glory through death, redemption in death – tropes that are hard to associate with Crowley unless you buy into his character’s devolvement in the latter half of season 12, but which the writers do their best to smooth into place and the fandom was forced to choke down.

And I won’t argue that Crowley didn’t wanted an end to his waiting – I’d argue the opposite in fact. This blatant preference for suicide, however, is antithesis to everything Crowley. What Crowley wanted in that End wasn’t an end of himself, but an end to existing in a state of perpetual limbo. Be accepted by the good guys, embrace his more human aspects, or return to the full dark depravity of demonkind. An end to the emotional rollercoaster, to continuous and destructive self-doubt, to striving to be both the king Hell needed and the ally the Winchesters refused to admit they benefited from having. That’s entirely different than wanting to end himself. As much as Crowley hated himself, he would never have considered death to be a preferable option – not unless some outside force, be it Chuck or the spn showrunners, decided otherwise for him.

Even if that had been the case, and I am wrong about Crowley’s characterization and his motivations, I still do not think he would have been as open about that motivation as is written in this cut script. It is just not like him. It is too vulnerable, too self-pitying. Crowley was always concerned about the others around him, and especially the Winchesters, thinking less of him. He never would have said something like this to them, not as this is written. Nor would Crowley have gone to the Winchesters with the intention of them killing him. He might have known it was a possibility, once he confessed his actions, (and from his perspective, there was the chance the Winchesters didn’t know of his involvement in Lucifer’s escape anyway), but it would never have been his intention. It’s not unknown for Crowley to encourage abuse from those he’s wronged, and to revel in the attention and emotions of it (here I’m thinking specifically of Kevin beating him in 9x02), maybe considering the punishment just and due. And Crowley at this point likely suspected he would eventually meet his end in some way involving the Winchesters. But death by their hands in this moment would have involved none of the justifying benefits of death by his own hand only a few scenes later – glory, revenge, redemption, a sense of closure.

Compare this cut monologue and its potential death – at the hands of the Winchesters after confessing his role in Lucifer’s escape – to this cut line of dialogue from later in 12x23. “Tell Dean he was right – you bloody fools have rubbed off on me.” This is Crowley. This is emotional complexity, admittance to a change of heart, self-awareness, and a brave act of equal defiance and sacrifice, with his usual smug, snarky dismissal. This isn’t suicide brought on by depression, by an uncharacteristic vulnerability. It is resolved, determined, if reluctant. This is Crowley choosing the greater good and the boys, even if it means sacrificing himself.

For me, this small addition smooths over much of the unevenness in the showrunner’s attempts to justify Crowley’s death. He has lost Hell, he believes he’s had an irreversible falling out with Dean – all of which could be overcome, grown beyond. But then a rift opens, and Lucifer is an immediate danger, and it requires a life to save the day. Crowley knows it can’t be either of the boys – that tends to have world-ending effects – and it can’t be Mary Winchesters or Castiel, because of “Winchester man-pain.” So that leaves Crowley. And having exhausted all immediate alternatives, Crowley does what internalized Winchester logic and conscience tells him is right. It would still require a moment of hesitation, a moment we see him combatting his deeply imbedded trait of self-preservation. But at least that would have been in character and show definitive character growth on Crowley’s part.

So yes, I completely agree with the decision to cut this monologue in 12x23. It doesn’t tell us anything about Crowley that we don’t already know, and is uncharacteristic of him, and provides out-of-character justification for his actions that wasn’t needed. You don’t have to agree with me, obviously. And I’ll end this rather long rant of an essay by saying what I always say: that Crowley deserved better. He deserved better than the mangling of his character’s motivations in the latter half of season 12, and he deserved better than this monologue. I’m glad it was cut from the final script.

[quwarichi]

"The writers are-" not to blame, and here's why

Usually, I ignore these posts saying "the writers are so bad, blaming COVID or whatever for the finale", but today I saw a mutual reblogging one of those, and I just went "shit, I'm gonna have to say it aren't I?"

Let's settle this; the writers (sans BL) are good at their job. But that's very general, calling them the writers. Each episode of all the seasons so far has been composed by a different person, even if we do have the rotating cast of them. Season 15's writers are made of Andrew Dabb (executive producer and co-showrunner since season 12), Meredith Glynn (producer), Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming (aka BL, executive producers), Bobo Berens (executive co-producer and story editor), Davy Perez (co-producer), Jeremy Adams, Meghan Fitzmartin, and Steve Yockey (producer).

Those are 8 writers for season 15, each in charge of 2-3 episodes or less (Meghan and Jeremy wrote one each) and that was that. I'd like to point out, though this might be just my personal opinion, that the show had made leaps and bounds in the growth of both characters and themes since Dabb took over, starting with season 12, I won't dive into that too much. Might make another post about that later.

So the process of writing a season for a show like supernatural, as far as I know as a person who doesn't work in the TV industry, goes a little something like this;

1. What is the season arc? A season arc, for those confused, is the drive of the story - the big problem they need to be solving, a threat looming over their heads constantly. There's one every season, usually paired with a deadline or a bad guy about to do bad guy things. For season 15, it was the fight for free will, at last, and the bad guy was Chuck.

2. Once they figure out the season arc, it's time to decide what they need to do to move the plot along, leaving a few key moments that must be inserted. There are also the character arcs to consider, which were especially important in the last season, to really wrap up their journey (I see you, Dabb, and your 15.10). The character arcs and the story arc usually intertwine at some point, to create motivations for the characters to act. We've seen it with season 10, season 11, season 12, and so forth.

3. And when the character and story arcs are done, the writers (8) divide and start crafting their episodes.

That's the writers, that's their jobs.

For anyone living under a rock, this season made destiel endgame part of the show's text, not the subtext. It was part of the plot, and it drove it. Two character arcs were relying on that plot, and it helped with the main story arc at the end. Bobo Berens, the mastermind behind 9.06 and so forth, wrote 15.03 (their breakup) 15.09 (their make up) 15.12 (their engagement), and finally 15.18 (the confession). Yes, Dean didn't get to say it back. Yes, killing Cas immediately after he said I love you is horrible and I hate it. Was it touching? Of course. Was it heartbreaking? Definitely. But was it Bobo's fault Dean wouldn't say I love you back? Absolutely not.

Bobo is an executive producer - an executive producer is usually the creator, writer, and showrunner of the show, meaning that he not only helps actively create the show, but he also helps write the script, and run the day-to-day production operations. He gets to do stuff most ordinary writers don't. But he answers to the network, like all other producers. And here comes the so-called villain, the one you've all been hating, but using the wrong name for:

The network.

The network producing SPN, the CW, is owned by WB, and those are a lot of acronyms, but they're important. You must realize that the writers, for the start of the season, told us exactly who's the villain. Here's an excellent article explaining why the meta-narrative is important for the show and how the TV Gods Are Watching. I'll be making a brief recounting of the article.

Chuck is the network, not the writers. He's the avatar embodying the network's push for the ending they believe would sell. The network's interested in money, not the fans. If the true ending might mean openly-queer characters and found-family of misfitted orphans, clustered together for the love they chose, not had to accept - it would mean that some people who watch the show, the demographic the network likes to think the show had most of, won't like it. Won't buy the DVD, won't watch the reruns. They also wouldn't be able to sell this to countries that are not okay with queer people, or that disapprove of the message the show would be trying to send.

Chuck is the network because he's pushing for an ending, a horrible ending, that he believes is what needs to happen next. Without the network's green light, nothing may air. The ending the writers wanted for this show, so evident in interviews and in the arc of the story, wasn't able to happen not because of lack of creativity or a big hard-on for fetishizing manpain. It was because it was the ending we wanted, and it couldn't do.

If you want more clarity, my advice is to go back to 15.04, visit the Becky and Chuck scenes - but imagine that instead of them, you're watching the network (Chuck) arguing with the writers (Becky).

The writers tried their best and crafted 18 beautiful, lovely episodes. Then another one that could've worked nicely if 20 went the original way. So don't go blaming the writers, throwing around "the writers this" and "the writers that". Blame the network. Scorn the CW, scorn WB, even. They're the ones who took our ending.

[dotthings]

So in the latinx Spanish dub of 15.18 that aired on Warner tv, Dean says “yo a ti, Cas” and bear in mind that this would air under the arm of Warner Brothers television “WARNER BROS. INTERNATIONAL TELEVISION DISTRIBUTION” so this narrows things down a little to CW not WB as the actual stifler at play. What exactly happened, what filmed, what wasn’t, I’m not taking a stand on that (and I have more complicated thoughts below the cut), but I have been saying right along that if Destiel wasn’t allowed to go explicitly canon, that would be network, not the writers. The writers were for Destiel. They were all along. 

This is what some of us have been trying to tell you. When we pointed it out, other Destiel shippers told us we were delusional. Or people tried to say there was no intention on Destiel. They yelled that the writers queer bait instead of understanding it was plausible that queer writers and allies might deliberately craft a queer love story designed to fly under radar of network restriction. The network is the problem, not the writer intent and good faith. I hope people get this now. I’m enjoying the vindication. It’s also funny watching some people who were part of the shaming and the bullying, or who called us names, now pretend like they knew it all along, when they went after the very writers attempting to tell this love story and they went after the meta writers who picked up on what the writers room was trying to do. They do owe apologies and I doubt they will come.

Anyway, In the Spanish dub of the show, Destiel isn’t just canon it’s megacanon. It’s explicitly reciprocated. Not that I didn’t know, I have been saying and saying Dean already showed how he feels back but he didn’t speak his heart explicitly on this. The dub not only makes Destiel mutually canonical love story, it makes Dean’s story better and it makes Cas’s story better individually too. Dean got to speak his heart at least. And Cas got to hear that he is loved at least.

More thoughts on the network/covid regulations/script revisions/showrunner debacles behind the cut.

We needed an overseas dub to do a partial rescue on the story, but it’s not a full rescue. Still doesn’t fix the sheer WTF of the series finale. I’m blaming a a perfect storm of factors and I don’t think it’s as simple as some are making it out to be in throwing blame, from different camps of opinions. 

It was network being unwilling to back Destiel when the writers wanted it, but many of us figured that out already.  

Then covid regulations tabling the original more found family inclusive plans, but that version sounds really weird (Jimmy Novak?? Kansas Band is dead and in heaven? ONE SCENE for found family? ONE SCENE?? WTF?????) but there could have been a plan before that original draft and the network kept sticking its finger in the pie. I can believe the creative team wanted was full explicit destiel and Dean and Cas reunion. So then this change then got changed into a (3rd?) revision due to covid regulations. Then we get to all the objectively stupid shit in the series finale that could have been fixed easily even under the covid regulations. It’s caving my brain in.

It’s a showrunner’s job to adapt to external factors, think outside the box, and create a strong product despite circumstances. For context, every showrunner of The 15 Year Show has ticked me off at one point or another. I don’t praise the show for brownie points, I just speak from the heart, and when it’s time to be critical I don’t go down an abyss tunnel of anti-ness and hate fixation, but I equally will speak my mind. I’ve had more than one show stumble last minute because of showrunner vision so it’s not hard for me to include Dabb in the perfect storm of stuff that went wrong. It didn’t have to fail Dean’s story, Sam’s story, Cas’s story this severely. Dialogue could have been added. Different photos on the mantlepiece. ADR. Dabb even contradicted things he himself wrote in the past, about Dean in particular. It is baffling AF.

The work up to that point was strong enough I was able to simply choose to ignore from my personal sense of canon rather than give myself a headache trying to massage it into something that fit themetically or emotionally or plot-wise. I’ve already aired my specific points of criticism in other posts.

And Anyway, Sam and Dean wouldn’t have even gotten to the end without their family, and those they love, and that’s the tea.

But I am not confused about the writing team as a whole and I am still grateful to “the writers.” Their stories, their scripts, the things they fought for, Bobo’s work especially, was harmed by the perfect storm, and one of the chief villains here is a tv network, and I hope people understand that, no matter what the details turn out to be on what happened, that this is a very real thing that happens frequently and that Destiel has been purposefully crafted because the writers wanted to do it, they believed in it. They were not mocking shippers. They believed in the story and tried to tell it within the walls hemming it in.

[elizabethrobertajones]

Did Bobo really create the Wayward Sisters? If so, why weren't Jack and especially Cas included in that episode? That's my biggest issue with that pilot honestly, I mean, the fact that the show abandoned Claire and Cas' bond after season 10 and gave that storyline to Salmondean. Her bond with Cas is more interesting because of their connection to the Novaks. I also think that Claire and Jack would've made a more engaging dynamic and spin off together, I think they're strong characters & actors

Hi there!

Bobo isn’t the “creator” of Wayward so much as it can even have one, as it was a very organic idea, which even involved a healthy amount of fandom input. The original campaign in season 10 was for Wayward Daughters, and the idea picked up so much steam the altered title for, I guess, a mix of copyright and thematic relevance was the Sisters one. I’d say 10x08 was the real genesis of it as something that could be really solid. Once Kim and Briana were put together the chemistry and star power they could have had together was really meteoric as far as our small SPN world was concerned. Phil Sgriccia directed 9x13 and wrote 10x08 and was more of the parent of Wayward than any specific writer in that sense. Jody and Claire were pretty much common property of the show by that point. Claire was really introduced again in relation to plotlines and questions about Cas and less to do with them really going out of their way to re-launch her. I think they’d have been much cornier about it from the start and while YA protagonist diary writing her way through the end of Wayward Sisters was cute, it’s the sort of cutesy that really has to be earned. If she STARTED that way, like maybe me and 3 friends would be stanning her and everyone else would be revolted :P

(I am a YA fantasy novel author, but I do think everyone should make room in their hearts for this level of cheese)

In any case, Bobo just threw his hat into an already crowded ring with Alex, but obviously loving the characters and having his own personal wayward child to contribute did help elevate him to the prospective showrunner seat, but also all the other writers who’d written these characters except Dabb had left at that point. If Bobo was going to shepherd them through to their new show, he’d be the legacy writer, even though he was a new baby writer in the season Donna was introduced... Attrition aside, he did genuinely write them very well, loved their stories and was great with writing Jody when he could get her, so he would also have been a good choice even if all the others were left still... 

But anyway. Season 10′s subplot for Cas was about Claire and learning some stuff about himself along the way, but she was used very much for his personal development and for Dean as well, being a mini Dean herself in a season where he had lost a lot of his sense of self. It’s a total accident of scheduling but Angel Heart (10x20) being the last episode before 10x22 is a nice touch in that regard. And while Cas tried really hard with Claire and awoke his inner Dad side so that he’d be more prepared for fatherhood next time, it was pretty insurmountable between them to have anything more than a bittersweet relationship where the best he could do was make up with her and see her somewhere safe. The fact of him looking like her actual dead father is horrendous the more you think about it and while she managed to see him for who he was instead of a horrible monster, that’s more than enough trauma to inflict on an already traumatised girl for the sake of helping Cas’s manpain and tidying up the sticky question of Jimmy and Cas’s right to the vessel. 

Angel Heart very specifically ends with TFW mailing Claire to Jody because they know she’s already good with Alex in a genuine way and can handle these sort of issues and has done it before. And also because she can be a guardian who will not constantly remind Claire that her father is dead but something is walking around wearing a perfect reconstruction of his face. Carver era did a few things here and there with bodily autonomy and the problem of angel and demon vessels, but it was also really hit and miss. They’d get random waves of feeling guilty about it but then by necessity go back to stabbing angels in their still-living vessels an episode later. Claire was a way to address at the very least that whatever Cas was being put through was only a punishment on Cas and not on Jimmy as well, which is probably why we got such sappy Heaven scenes. We NEEDED to be shown he was in Heaven and largely okay with what was going on so that the show could justify using Cas at all as a character without breaking the code of ethics they tried to make their own characters adhere to. Aside from that it also gave Cas a side plot for when he wasn’t needed in the main plot, and any emotional connection to anything that wasn’t Sam and Dean.

Anyway 10x20 caused this huge fandom high which was followed by one of the lowest lows of the fandom immediately after, and both centred on female characters (in fact, now we know, 2 lesbians even! Though I’d wonder if, The Gay Agenda aside, Bobo spite-wrote that specifically because of the roots of Wayward) and I think that galvanised the whole movement of fans and hopefully some self-reflection in the show. They DID start making an effort in season 11, which shows some of the early signs of better inclusion but also backtracking or edging nervously away from the more intense Carver era stuff. Not just because Dean didn’t have the Mark any more but in general it was like someone had opened a window and let in some fresh air... Even before Carver bailed somewhere around the midseason to go do a different show and Dabb started to step up. 

All this to say that the Wayward stuff was always about the female characters and making up for the past sins of the show. It’s even a riff on the “wayward son” line which obviously centres around male protagonists and their journey. Claire stumbled into being a part of it in the lucky way of being in the right place and time, but the journey had already started even in the season 10 momentum with earlier work and it was that which suddenly made the prospect that Jody had two young women living with her now seem like a starter for the next generation of the show as it was a mirrored format to season 1 in a way, if you took Alex and Claire as the new Sam and Dean. It was exciting but people flipped out after Angel Heart because stuff had been bubbling since season 9 and earlier in season 10, so this was just pouring more candy into an already visibly full bowl of potential tasty gems. It made a possibility seem real that hadn’t before because we already had Kim bitterly complaining that the CW refused to hear the case for a Jody spin off because she was too old. The next best thing was a Jody spin off where she was the Gandalf to some CW age appropriate characters.

(the CW is and always has been garbage)

Anyway in season 13 Jack was introduced as a Claire 2.0 but as a male character with staying power for that reason, but he was filling the space she left for Cas. He couldn’t be a father to her and neither really wanted that set up anyway. But thematically it had created the possibility of Dadstiel and the space he had in his heart for that. Since the show was in its waning years they would be looking for endgame and handing Cas an easy win with a son he could unconditionally love who would love him back unconditionally absolutely filled that gap. It was a non SamnDean thing that Cas could have for himself outside of whatever happened with them. Not sure the memo came back that he was supposed to have mORE than that but oh well it’s not real if you don’t watch it :))) But yeah Jack was always going to be linked to Cas’s endgame, he wasn’t a free-floating character such as Jody who could go where she wanted and do as she pleased. He was main story relevant from start to finish and tied inexorably to another main character’s fate. Because the show wouldn’t do that with its female characters they could be bundled into spin offs but in practical terms Jack was both never what the Wayward as envisioned by fans or writers was about, nor would he have been free to go. 

Since it would have been about centering the stories of people overlooked by the main story, Claire a case in point that she had her life ruined in season 4 and it was a footnote until season ten, and then metaphorically more the concept of having queer and non-white characters in the mix of main characters, it would have represented a future of the story where the main show was unable to tread. Probably because of the CW. Also inherent biases in the writers. Bad cocktail. Jack is both too white and too male to fit the brief to ever leave SPN, and not only that but he is so as a precise mirror to the main white male characters, being passably any one of their sons if you squint, and meant to be instantly instinctively read as such... he was one of the safest bets of representing the show as the network wanted to imagine its target demographic.

So I really don’t think that Jack has any place being in a spin off of the show unless you want more of the same. They tried to give us something different and the CW didn’t like it because it wasn’t more of the same. Ironically a Jack spin off, with or without Claire, would have more chance of being greenlit and more chance of success. But the spin off they put their heart behind was Wayward Sisters as it was. And I think it was absolutely correct that never mind leaving Jack out of it after his work was done in the lead up episode to help set the table, but honestly they could have cut all the middle scenes of Sam and Dean wandering in the woods and gained precious seconds with the girls and still had a functioning story with those guys. It was like some cowardly missive was sent that the show couldn’t actually go more than 10 minutes without showing a flesh and blood Winchester or the whole thing would spontaneously sizzle out of syndication and the money tree would wither on the spot. And in the mean time, we could have been having Banter with the girls. Or Claire and Kaia holding hands some more. The good stuff :P 

[cinematicnomad]

Possible controversial opinion time - I can't help but see parallels between Buddie and Destiel. The writers spent 11 years showing how much Dean and Cas meant to each other, and yet it culminated in whatever that abomination of an ending was. I'm still so disappointed and hurt. I feel Buddie is headed that direction. I just don't think the show will ever follow through. It's hard to stay invested when I'm pretty sure I'll just end up sad again.

prefacing this with my usual i'm-a-pessimist-at-heart-and-won't-believe-buddie-will-go-canon-until-it's-happening-on-the-screen-right-in-front-of-my-face:

as much as i love destiel (and oh man, anon, i FUCKING love destiel), i don't think these ships, or shows, or dynamics, are comparable. bear with me for a minute as i provide some really necessary context that i think people tend to forget when making these comparisons:

supernatural was a bush-era (white, straight, cishet) male power fantasy tv show. like, not even the tail-end of the bush presidency, it started airing in 2005 right around the start of bush's second term. we were pretty firmly in the middle of the bush presidency. queer characters on tv were few and far between (usually relegated to one off guest stars or premium networks like showtime or hbo etc etc), gay marriage wasn't even legal yet, don't-ask-don't-tell was emblematic of the ~*coexist*~ ideology, and in the realm of tv even if they weren't overtly homophobic or anti-gay, they were culturally complacent. tv writers felt v comfortable making derogatory comments about queer people just for the ~*laughs*~ (please go back and rewatch gilmore girls and just....wait for the homophobic jokes to pour in, bc holy shit, there are a lot of them) and supernatural fell in line with that pretty squarely (haha everyone thinks sam and dean are gay, the motel owners are always offering them a single queen bed, dean's totally compensating for ~*something*~, isn't it funny).

and supernatural, despite growing and evolving over 15 years, really did hold on to that demographic. supernatural was one of those random shows that appealed to both democratic and republican viewers, and the network, the producers, the showrunners, the writers, WHATEVER, were not going to alienate their conservative audience. because: money.

9-1-1 just?? isn't comparable. the show started airing in 2018 and despite all the terrible things in the world, there HAS been progress in society and we can see that reflected in the show. we have several named main and regular queer characters on this show, who have plots and storylines that aren't just about their sexuality, who aren't used for the very-special-after-school-episode, but exist as fully rounded characters. hen is a main character and has been since e1 and we've gotten such beautiful storylines about her relationship with karen and their family and it is a jOY to watch on my screen compared to the types of (v limited) representation i saw as a teen in the mid-00s.

i mean...i think there are arguments to be made that bisexual representation still has far to go, and i have serious doubts that a ry*n m*rphy project will be the place to see any of that happen (he's biphobic af and i'm not talking about "oh there were some questionable plots in glee"), not to mention i still think that show creators have an easier time getting greenlit when pitching defined characters as queer from the outset compared to arguing for a character who was envisioned as straight-presenting at the start be allowed to evolve/grow/discover themselves through the course of the show (off the top of my head, characters who started out straight and came out several seasons after the fact...callie on grey's, willow on buffy, and marissa on the oc?). like i agree with you there! again, i'm a pessimist, so like i'm not telling you to be more positive or whatever?

but i just think that arguments that destiel and buddie are going to follow the same path lack a lot of nuance and tend to overlook some really important distinctions between both shows and the world writ large, and??

speaking of ship dynamics on their own, i'd just point to the fact that supernatural, for all that i loved about it, genuinely seemed to want to constantly run away from dean and castiel's dynamic? they spent entire seasons coming up with contrived ways to keep the two characters separate or to force them at odds with each other. like, ACTIVELY wrote plots and character arcs that undermined dean and castiel's bond at every turn bc the show didn't or couldn't address how much they mattered to each other. they'd give you like...breadcrumbs and then try to pretend like none of it mattered. (also this is when i plug that if you're not already you should 110% be watching bob weiss's destiel deep dive series on youtube)

on the other hand, whether or not buddie goes canonically romantic (which again! i doubt will happen!), 9-1-1 HAS canonically made their bond central to both characters and has repeatedly underscored just how much they matter to each other and just how involved they are in each other's lives. like, whether or not you think the writers will ever let them confess their romantic love for each other, the show DOES routinely center plots for both characters on their relationship with each other and repeatedly goes back to the same well to define just how much they matter to each other. s4 literally ended with eddie revealing that he made buck christopher's legal guardian like....they are doing the opposite of supernatural tbh.

this ran away from me so i'm just gonna publish this ask as is sorry

✨sleepover weekend✨

[pray4jensen]

honestly despite knowing we'll probably never know for sure and everything will become some muddled myth or theory over the years of speculation, i really wish i could know the names of anyone who had a hand in this ending. not just because it hurt but because it was so tragically and horrifically irresponsible to the fanbase, who they KNOW have a lot of people with mental health issues, including their lead. they should be held responsible and let the fans choose not to support their work again

i agree! this is...a difficult space to navigate, but this is definitely an issue that the fandom is experiencing right now. i’m seeing swathes of people splintering off into different sides because we’re angry. we want to know what happened because we want to know who to blame.

and tbh, i wish there was a straight path here. i wish we could easily say it was the network or the writers or the showrunner specifically but the truth is that it was likely a combination of all three of them. 

this is, i feel at least, the most level-headed approach to the problem. we know that the network had a hand in this most definitely. nobody is disagreeing with that. but we also need to remember that this episode, regardless of whichever way it may have been censored, was still born out of the collaboration that goes on in the writer’s room, and also born of the vision of spn’s endgame as determined by andrew dabb. 

and i know there are some who feel that the writers should be completely absolved of guilt. i understand where this notion is coming from, because i’ve been a part of this fandom for years, and i’ve learnt about as much about these people as i have of the actors, despite the writers being less available for public consumption. we all thought we knew what these writers cared about. we all thought we knew where this story was headed. we saw what these writers did year after year and learnt their methods and learnt how to read and predict the stories that they intended to tell.

but then the finale happened. and all that trust that people had was broken.

but this is also why that trust broke. because time and time again, we saw these writers fantastically utilize the power of subtext to tell the story the way that it demanded to be told. and then, to see how every bit of character development for sam and dean and cas and everybody else was shattered, one can’t help but ask why? and i’m not saying that they’re completely at fault. i’m not saying that i don’t understand how hard those writers must have worked to give us an explicitly queer cas, or how those writers must have felt when the network came in with their list of demands. it must have been awful to not be able to tell the story the way it was intended. but why didn’t the writers use those same skills to rectify the finale? why didn’t they try their best to make sure dean still had a voice, even if the network meddled with them? surely there was some way to ease the hurt a little bit, to make the ending more palatable, instead of what it felt like: bullet after bullet to the heart.

and then dabb. dabb who most definitely wrote the finale with the intention for dean to die. because if we really value the subtext that we saw in s15, then we can also look at the props in becky’s house that showed us how the ending was supposed to go (dean still dead, but maybe better off because he was in heaven with cas). because it’s not like the network stood there with a gun to dabb’s head as he wrote how dean became embedded on a piece of rebar and perished. it’s not the network who asked that dean be shown applying to jobs with hope for a better life only to never get to live it. honestly? the most the network could have said was no, you can’t have dean come out as queer and no, you can’t get rid of the brothers element.

so keeping all this in mind, this is at least my personal approach to the question of who to blame. when i think about who did this to our show, it was all of them. i know it was the network but i also know that the writers could have done better and dabb also could have done better. i have my own biases, and people have theirs, but this is as it stands: if we can’t say it was none of them and we can’t agree on some of them, then it simply has to be all of them. 

[whelvenwings]

So like destiel huh.

Being slightly outside it all has made it easier I think to track the rapid development that there's been from "they really did that? holy shit... yes... but the way they did it is not so great with Cas dying right after. Well it's a lot more than nothing!" to "the only way this makes sense is if this isn't Cas' ending, right? He will be in the finale and there will be more to this!"

I'm making this post as a very very very gentle reminder to exercise caution with your hopes. While we may yet see more exciting things happen, it is at least a possibility that what we have is all we'll get. It is possible that Cas could be in the finale as a flashback or a cameo or a side role with no more development. It is possible that - even though it would be wildly better writing to follow through - they won't give us anything more than this.

I just finished watching a very long video on tjlc (it was by Sarah Z and it was great, you can find it here) and this situation is very different, but it was a reminder that knowing a lot about a show isn't a guarantee of knowing where it's going. Writers and showrunners can and will let down the fans who know their show inside out. What's obvious to us isn't always obvious to them. Something that looks like it's Going There can pull back at the last second.

And if you're happy just letting hope fill you up for a little bit in 2020 and you're reading this then please don't let me dampen the spirit. I'm so glad for you that this is happening, holy shit. I hope very much that it all comes together, it's completely possible that it will. But if you're going to crash hard thinking something is certain when there is a possibility it may yet not happen, please remember to take care of yourself. 💚

[gayngelcastiel]

Destiel Thoughts...

Okay, so my dears, if you are currently enjoying the celebration of canon destiel, please feel free to scroll past these ramblings. However, if you care to read what an English teacher, story lover, and 15-year fan of this show actually thinks…then buckle up.

I’m just going to say it…what happened in 15x18 is NOT how you canonize a romantic pairing, and the spn “powers that be” are well aware of this. The people making the decisions about how the show is written, and what gets shown on screen, are not complete idiots. They know this fandom exists, they know exactly what we want to see, and yet for whatever reason they have actively chosen to walk the frustratingly ambiguous line between keeping destiel shippers on the hook, while simultaneously being careful to maintain plausible deniability in the event that anyone should accuse their little show of being “too gay”. If you need proof that they could have done a whole lot better, then look no further than these beautiful examples...

This kiss happened on “Xena the Warrior Princess” in 2001. Granted, they had to be a bit sneaky about how the gay content was included in the plot. However, same-sex romance wasn’t exactly common on TV back then, and yet fans still got to see Xena and Gabrielle kiss.

 This happened nearly 20 years ago!

This one comes from “Buffy the Vampire Slayer”, and it is also an episode from 2001. This one is arguably even better representation, because Willow and Tara are canonically dating and in love.

This kiss comes from a 2008 episode of “Torchwood”. Jack and Ianto also end up in a long-term relationship.

This adorable wedding comes from “Steven Universe” in 2018. This is a literal kids show with lots of positive LGBTQ messaging.

Now, why have I chosen these examples in particular? Well aside from the fact that some of them were groundbreaking when they originally aired, all of these shows also share themes/tropes with Supernatural. All of these shows are some blend of adventurous, magical, sci-fi, fantasy...and yet they all manage to have some pretty good LGBTQ representation as well.

So, in case you haven’t already understood my point...SPN HAS NO EXCUSE!!! The fact that they are well aware of what fans want, but they refuse to either take a stand, or stop leading us on is POSITIVELY SHAMEFUL. It is an insult to the writers who pushed for better representation 20 years ago, and worked really hard at it!

To be perfectly honest, even if they had made destiel unquestionably canon in this episode, I might have been happy, but I definitely wouldn’t have been impressed. There is no reason to wait until the end of your series to explore a character’s sexual orientation, or to make it clear who they love. Waiting this long isn’t some kind of “slow burn” or story writing trick...it is simply BAD WRITING.

If the showrunners actually wanted to explore the depth and complexity of these characters they wouldn’t leave out a trail of breadcrumbs for clever viewers to follow; they would lay out clear plot points and meaningful, unambiguous  characterization.

However, I do have some positive things to say not about the show directly, but about this fandom. The destiel fandom and the deancas/destiel canon that this community has created is what will stand the test of time. I hope that for long after this show has ended, the many fanfic writers and artists in this fandom will still be taking inspiration from our favourite characters. The Dean and Cas whom I love are NOT the  ones from a TV show, and they haven’t been in quite some time. No, the characters that I love have been created, and re-created with great care and passion by the people of this community, and that is what I love about stories. Your stories are just as valid as any on the official show, and many of you could write a much more interesting show than the one we have. 

We have created something so much bigger than any one TV show could ever be.

Keep writing, sharing and telling your stories. They are powerful and beautiful. Goodnight everyone! I apologize for typos...very tired after this long exciting day.

[sortasirius]

Hello everyone, long time no extremely long text post about SPN from me.  Is this a meta?  Idk, it may just be my own rambling over SPN that I’ve never actually written down.

Every day I wish I could forget Supernatural and move on and every day I fucking fail.

I’ve heard so many people, my friends included, say they just consider SPN ending at 15x18, and as much as I wish I could do that, as much as I wish I could just accept 15x18 as the ending and not acknowledge the last two episodes, I’ve decided it’s impossible for me.  Maybe it’s just because I can’t accept an ending that is, at it’s core, incomplete, whether that’s the finale or 15x18, maybe it’s because, if 15x18 is our ending, Dean’s journey is left at even more of a cliffhanger than it is in the actual finale.

No matter how I look at it, no matter how much I wish I didn’t feel this way, the final two episodes tainted 15x18 for me.  I can’t think about it now without getting a little angry (though that anger is a lot less...intense than it was right after the finale). I can’t hear Cas’ speech without thinking about what was cut out, what we’ll never be able to see, what was taken not only from us, but from Dean, so much from Dean.  How can I feel like the end of the show is Dean crumpled on the floor, never being allowed to speak his truth, without even the idea that he could see Cas again?  I hate the finale, hated almost everything about it, but at least Dean’s closure with Cas was a possibility there, at least I could fill in the many, many blanks myself.

I’ve tried so hard to work through the anger, the rage, the disbelief at what the end of the show I hyped up for so long, and I feel like I’m being torn in half, even nearly five months after the fact.  I want to write for y’all, I want to do a rewatch and do more meta, I want to write hundreds of fics, but every time I start I find myself looking back at the finale, at what still feels like a stinging betrayal (yes, I know it’s just a tv show lol).

I’ve also seen so many people say they can’t wait for Jensen to reboot the show with Chaos Machine, and I know I’m in the vast minority here, but nothing he does can fix what happened, not unless he decides to do a shot for shot recreation of Dabb’s script prior to any cuts.  I know that is beyond incredibly unlikely to happen, but the ending is just like a black hole, so little of it makes sense, and I think that’s been the most difficult thing for me to process from it.  If it was decent but not what I wanted, I might be more excited about the prospect of a reboot, but realistically I know that the reboot will be a different story, and I don’t know how I’d be able to move past the finale, move past the fact that I will never be able to see the conclusion of a story that I so deeply loved.

Also...I just don’t want Jensen to have executive producer say in what happens if and when they reboot the show.  I love Jensen, I love him with all my heart, but there’s a reason that he’s not a writer, not a showrunner.  He has, for years, shown that he unequivocally understands Dean from the inside, but I worry about the decisions he’ll make regarding Dean from the outside, as he’s never looked at Dean that way and has, more than once, said things that Dean feels packaged as the way things are.

Maybe, if they decided to do Wayward Sisters, with Dean, Cas, Sam, Jack as minor characters rather than major, maybe that would make it more palatable to me, but the idea of a miniseries about a hunt?  Or a big bad?  Or Sam and Dean having brother time?  I just don’t think I can stomach it tbh, how can I stomach it when all I can think of is the last true mention of Cas was Dean hearing that Cas was in love with him, only for him to, completely inexplicably, never be mentioned again?  Like when you create a story like that and aren’t allowed to finish it, everything else just seems hollow in comparison.

I just...I know I’ve said this before but I just hated what happened for Dean.  Like the way his story ended was so wrong, so hollow, so weird with that final scene with Sam.  I just hate that no matter what, whether you view the show ending at 18 or 20, Dean is the one who gets shafted.  Sam gets shafted too, for sure, but Dean?  All that growth he went through, all that pain and heartbreak and reflection throughout the season with Cas, with Lee, with Jack, with Sam, with Mary, all of it is either left with him on the floor without speaking his truth to Cas, or driving around in circles for 40 years, totally alone.  I think that’s what made me the angriest, that Dean, this character that was so beautifully created, so masterfully created, partially by design, partially by pure accident, never got the closure to his arc that he so desperately deserved.

Bobby says to him, in the finale, that they were in the Heaven Dean deserved, but it never feels like it.  Dean has always been happiest surrounded by people, and the fact that he is, apparently, left without anyone and completely without a purpose without Sam?  It’s not only just plain wrong, it’s ridiculous.  I just wish, more than anything, that we could get the ending we were clearly supposed to have, and the fact that we likely won’t ever really know what we were supposed to have, like what the true original vision was, that’s what makes me so upset.

I think I’ve tried too much to forget SPN, and I’m sorry for that.  I miss writing about it, I miss writing fic and writing meta, I miss writing about Dean.  I want to get back to that, and even though I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to love it as blindly as I did before the finale, I’d at least like to try.

[eisforeidolon]

'stiel shippers are already making up conspiracy theories about how 15x19 ending is actually a fake, homophobic ending meant to fool people and 15x20 will have the true ending where Cass comes back and their ship becomes unequivocally, mutually canon and it's endgame. They've gone full TJLC with the fix-it episode theory and I can't say that I'm surprised at all.

Yeah, negative levels of surprise there. 

When Misha was posting all those travel pictures from around the US while J2 were quarantining, it was all a ruse!  TPTB made him post old pictures to hide where he was and his generic motel rooms could be in Vancouver!  He lives in Washington, so that’s probably close enough he doesn’t have to quarantine anyway!  They can’t leave the guy who saVeD tEH ShOw out of the last two episodes!!  Doesn’t matter that they let the actors spoil Mark P. and Jake A. and Jim B.’s returns, nah, they had to try and keep whether Misha was there or not a surprise!

Now this.  They managed to recognize when an episode was pandering to bibros with 15x19.  Which honestly was a bit of an accomplishment for them, given the hilarious exercise in palpable denial their “meta” about Red Meat is.  It certainly isn’t even all of them that managed it, given the usual blinkered nonsense floating around declaring Dean being drunk is desolation about Castiel (not, you know, hopelessness their whole world is still gonna end and everybody is gone but him, Sam, and Jack - just like their Mary who? nonsense in season 13).  Not to mention the insisting to each other Dean was totally willing to kill Sam to get Cas back, lalalalaing right through how the brothers were offering to kill each other and both be gone for the revival of, again, everybody else.  I digress ... and go on for a bit after this, so have a cut:

The point is, they recognize that having the Winchesters drive off into the sunset together is pandering to bibros, but they refuse to accept that whole scene destroying Castiel’s character was just pandering to them.  Despite how out of nowhere with zero previous buildup to support it being twue lurve it was.  Despite how this was supposedly planned for a year, yet the characters have been more at odds than ever.  Despite how one-sided it was.  Despite how, no matter how much they keep insisting to people in the comments under official CW posts that there is NO WAY to see it as anything but romantic, non-shippers and more casual fans keep daring to say they see it as familial (the NERVE!).  Despite how, while you could fairly say it’s become The Jack Show in recent years, it has never been the Dean & Cas show outside of shippers’ fevered imaginations.  So while pandering to them any harder than was already done is gonna get some WTF from the general audience?  Pandering to bibros just means making Sam & Dean’s show about ... Sam & Dean.  Which nobody in the general audience is gonna bat an eye at.

Doesn’t matter that the network president still talks about doing a revival with, specifically, J2.  Doesn’t matter most of the legitimate press over the series ending focuses particularly on J2 and Sam & Dean’s ending.  Doesn’t matter that the ones the actual co-showrunners consulted about tweaking the finale scripts post-COVID are, repeat it with me, J2.  Jared is totally a cheerleader for their ship, we know this because reasons!  Jensen must have changed his mind since last time he said his character was straight, because nobody’s asked him in the last five minutes and that’s the “right” answer they want him to say!  Misha said Jensen was totally into it and Misha *cough* never lies!

As I’ve said before, I put nothing 100% past Dabb.  I would not be even a little surprised if we get at least somebody mentioning somewhere next episode that Castiel got resurrected off-screen again.  Or if there’s some implication the brothers see him again in a way shippers could pretend totally had to involve hooking up with Dean. However, while we know Misha will bend whichever way the minion $$$ wind blows, and Dabb comes off as desperate for ass-pats on twitter from the hellers & minions blowing smoke up his ass?  He has played both sides for years in ways the general audience can dismiss (again, hard to do that and make reciprocated twue lurve “cannon”).  Dabb is also a co-showrunner with Singer who isn’t all over fandom and seemed kind bemused by it and previously said the ship was never discussed as a thing in the writer’s room while the ‘hellers were insisting their secret storyline was totes in there, guise. 

Likewise, I would be very surprised if after years of being harassed by a handful of disrespectful asshole “fans” to do so, Jensen agreed to just give in and change the character he’s been very invested in playing for fifteen years to please those jerks.  For something that suddenly and arbitrarily changes the character’s sexuality away from how he has explicitly said he has been playing it for fifteen years for a 40+ year old character in the very last episode.  For something Misha has implied he and Berens went behind his back to do in terms of Castiel’s end - that any idiot with two brain cells to rub together could figure out would lead to more harassment directed his way especially if he dared object (and would be objecting to another actor’s choices for their own character). For something that undermines what he has said repeatedly that he sees as the fundamental basis of the show.

None of that matters, though!  They’ve convinced themselves that they’re the only real audience and only they know the true story - the rest of us are just some sad definitely tiny group of pathetic hangers on that don’t understand the show has Changed Now and is really about the grEatEST LurVe stORy nEVeR tolD!  It’s what their whole echo chamber the whole audience wants ... because they say so!