#why CANT i say the word transandrophobia?

[jules-hoard-of-stuff]

Stop feeling bad about my identity challenge

[sevens-evan]

i feel like people who follow me on twitter and not here have to have just. well no idea what i’m actually like frankly

[kienansidhe]

the thing is for a long long time i did subscribe to the idea that transfems have it the worst of all of us and that transmascs do have systemic power over transfems, and im still not sure i dont believe it? however.

the transandrophobia/transmisandry/whatever you wanna call it blogs that i follow specifically clarify over and over and over that they are not trying to say transmisogyny doesnt exist, or to make it a contest of whos most oppressed, or to say trans women have systemic power over trans men, or anything of the sort, they have made that disclaimer so many times and yet over the years i have seen that making that disclaimer does not help.

if transmascs speak up abt transphobia, we are bombarded with harassment and willful misinterpretation of our words. no matter how many disclaimers, no matter how much we keep the conversation to our own posts, no matter how many steps we take to avoid taking space away from transfems, we still get these accusations of transmisogyny, just for talking about our own lived experiences.

we shouldnt have to grovel and beg other queer people to allow us to talk about the oppression we experience. we shouldnt have to couch it in 500 disclaimers, and even when we do people try to silence us.

im absolutely not blaming this on transfems, btw. many of the most supportive ppl on this site who boost transmasc voices are transfems who are incredibly kind and wonderful and smart people. the transfems who are radfemmy and separatist are not any more representative of transfems in general than the transmascs who are radfemmy and separatist are representative of transmascs in general. i suspect most of the problem are cis ppl. i know many are fellow transmascs who either pass and dont experience the problems most of us face, or else have been taught that in order to be good allies to transfems they have to disavow their siblings who are still fighting to be heard, like its a zero sum game and they have to pick sides.

maybe transfems do have it unequivocally worse, full stop. im not rlly that smart or good at interpreting data and different people tell me different things and if i think too much abt it i start spiraling. but i dont like that so many people on this site take transmascs talking abt our struggles as an inherent attack on transfems. thats that part i rlly dont understand. thats why i keep asking why we cant just get along. why cant these discussions happen in parallel?

if someone tells me transfems have it worse, sure, that doesnt bother me to accept and be aware of and take into consideration in how i live my life. but when people tell me transfems have it worse, therefore transmascs should shut up? thats incomprehensible to me. thats just transphobia.

[softbutchthatlovesyou]

Yknow Im tired of seeing people gp "transandrophobia people are just so comfortable allowing terfs in their tags"

and the facts of matter is

1. How do you expect transandrophobia blogs to forcefully stop t/rfs from cross tagging whatever they see fit to push their shitty behavior :? i hope yall didnt forget that theyll spam any tag they can if it makes them feel like they're getting the Own on trans people. go fuck yourself if you blame us that they are shitbags who post in tags that were never for them. why are we being blamed for a bigots actions!!!

2. I have all those assholes blocked actually and cant see them posting in there bc I fucking hate t-rfs and have already blocked apparently most of them. If you see blatant t/rf shit in these tags try calling it out without asuming we're "ignoring" it?? Like just maybe consider I don't see it bc I got that user blocked for being a piece of shit.

3. Just say you want a sweeping reason to be mad at a group. Just say it. its less words than trying to explain how its our fault t/rfs (a known bigot group) target us.

[kawaiikitten96]

I mostly just reblog what other people say about this topic and not make original posts about it but like

I really don’t understand why having a word specifically for the transphobia trans masc’s experience is bad?? Like genuinely why does it matter?

I’ve seen the argument that its like MRA stuff but Trans, but at least in my POV the MRA type stuff I used to see in the past was like similar to when het people say there should be a straight pride parade or white people saying there should be a white history month or w/e which is obviously like, super unhelpful, like people being willfully ignorant of their privilege

But I don’t really see that with trans men wanting to use transandrophobia/transmisandry as a term and wanting to talk about specific transphobia they face as trans mascs, like I think the people against using transandrophobia as a term wanna imply that whenever a transfem talks about transmisogyny theres *always* a a trans guy that wants to take over the conversation and talk about himself, which?? I dont think that happens???

And if it does, than that trans dude is being an asshole, but it doesn’t mean that trans mascs as a whole cant talk about the shit that affects them.

Trans women can talk about transmisogyny and trans men can talk about transmisandry, that shouldn’t be a controversial statement

[sonicaro]

its literally so stupid that transfems and transmascs fight over whether they both have separate experiences because its so obvious when you look at it that no matter what kind of trans (OR intersex for that matter, or gnc, or anything) youre experiencing both misogyny and yes. transandrophobia. think about it. trans women are treated like e makes them weak and stupid, once they pass theyre talked over, if they dont do The Most Possible 2 appear feminine (god forbid yr happy w yr body or butch) ppl will NOT respect u as a woman. and yet they experience fear from others and are treated like interlopers because of their traditionally masculine traits. everyones like ewwwwww you have a penis blah blah raging hormone monster blah blah and saying you dont REALLY belong in womens spaces. and then trans men and mascs are treated like silly confused girls from what i hear. like o are u SURE u dont want boobs its PERMANENT and youre so PRETTY blahblah we have to save you from yourself and assault you so you realize yr just a lesbian. but then, and especially once/if you pass, its all "you shouldnt be in womens spaces (gynecologist, stuff thats for people w vaginas not just women) youre a threat that t will change you into a raging monster ewww u want a penis??? like we are really not that different and are both discriminated against for having traditionally masculine and feminine traits. too much and not enough of either. but in different ways which is why i think its good to have a word for common experiences that transcend agab and direction of transition, and words for things that affect specific groups of people (nonbinary people, transfems, transmascs) because its all so connected but nuanced. and lets be real stuff like race and disability and class figures into this all heavily. its complicated it cant be boiled down so much. if a word w a similar purpose sounds similar its not copying and its not the same as being an mra and also we have to both listen to eachother because literally no side is consistently doing that i think. whatever this is just a ramble we're all connected we're all different we're all beautiful transmascs and transneutral ppl are my besties my allies we should all feel safe and seen and heard together.

[notinsanejustmad]

okay maybe this is because my gender is fucked but ????? how the fuck is there infighting in trans spaces like uhhh how the fuck do you see a person and think "nah lets not accept their gender, that one is weird". lmao we're all fucking weird (im including cis people here im not convinced everyone is actually 100% a binary gender. and if they are. wow thats fucking weird too)

Like... i like to inform myself on transmasc experiences a lot. and even though i can't understand all of their experiences theres a lot of overlap (and this is why i said maybe its because my gender is weird but omg i dont think theres anyone who cant relate to any experience of them. what im saying is fucking listen to each other theres so much you have in common)

and ugh i dont fucking understand how people can be so mad at people relaying their experience and finding words to describe them (yes this is also about transandrophobia sorry). Literally the people in your community are the least problem. Other people are gonna see us as not valid and are gonna discredit our experience and take our rights away anyways and you better fucking fight against thart directly instead of looking how you can make our community more friendly to cisnormativity because thats not the fucking point.

[ranocchiowo]

Look I agree on the transandrophobia shit but my only question is if y'all admit we face our own type of transphobia specific to trans men, why are we not allowed to have our own word for it? Sure not /that/word, it doesn't work and was coined by a freak, and not transmisandry cause misandry isn't real, but all I see is 'why this word is bad' and never anyone trying to come up with a word for the transphobia experienced specifically by trans men??

the word is just transphobia my guy. most marginalised groups have different ways that oppression manifests for women, men, and others within that group and yet transmascs are the only ones trying to create a new term for it. the reason terms like transmisogyny, misogynoir, etc exists is because of how different axis of oppression combine.

we have a different experience of transphobia than tma people, but we have no need for a term like transmisogyny bc our oppression is solely due to us being trans, and not due to us being men/masc (note: im not saying we cant experience misdirected misogyny)

if you can comprehend how racism, for example, has different impacts on men of colour and women of colour, and how men of colour can talk about their experiences without creating a male-specific term, then you can comprehend how trans men/transmascs can and should be capable of doing the same

[cleaverqueer]

if men cannot be an oppressor class, then white cannot be an oppressor class, which is stupid to say. just because sub groups within a class have struggles from being trans or poor or disable... doesn't make them part of an oppressor class. patriarchy is built by and for males, as a class, in every society no matter their personal issues.

I'm glad you sent this so I could clear it up for you, instead of harrassment, to me or any other trans men, so thanks I guess.

People are oppressed for being minorities and privileged for being majority, that doesnt automatically make you an oppressor for being born a man or white or cis; although they are generally more susceptible to misogyny or racism or transphobia, its taught, and impressed upon to different levels depending on how bigoted your caregivers are, and it can be unlearned.

You think I woke up one day, realized I was a man, and suddenly hated women???? Or that when I had a word for what I was (trans), it undid the years damage of transphobic society?

The human condition means people are born with every imaginable variance and combination of traits, and bigotry against people of one kind or another intersects to form unique experiences for indivuliduals. The oppression and hatred of trans men is called transandrophobia.

You are absolutely right, patriarchy is built for and by men, and

1 they dont consider us to be in the first place and we dont benefit from at all. Like at all. I cannot stress this enough, transphobic cis people dont consider us men, and cis men do not see is as equals unless we pass and even then, its upon the condition of staying in the closet and performing masculinity to their standards. (This is an example of transandrophobia)

2 men also suffer from the patriarchy. Toxic masculinity forced upon us, thought to be sexually predatory and full of rage by default, and being treating like less of a man for not wanting that.

Which brings me to my last point; if men cant be oppressed for being trans, would you tell a gay man hes not oppressed? Would you tell a homeless man hes not oppressed? What about a black man? Or an autistic man? One might even ask why you're so against the thought of trans mens suffering being recognized, finally. One priviledge doesnt cancel out oppression on a different axis, and your opinions do not affect the years of transandrophobia I've experienced and finally have a word for.

Tl:dr

Transphobia directed at trans men and trans mascs is called transandrophobia. Cope.

[queerautism]

this is gonna sounds really stupid probably (its a genuine question btw) but wouldnt transandrophobia, from what i know about how words work, just mean like hatred for trans men?

i mean this is probably an incoherent and stupid question (my brain has a programming error that causes me to not understand things properly :[ ) but like. from what ive seen, trans guys face a lot of shit for being trans and men and trans men. so like if theres transmisogyny (which im not saying doesnt exist, of course!) why cant there be transandrophobia? like a term specifically for the bad things trans men face?

sorry if this is worded in an unreadable way/ dumb way, im bad at explaining my thoughts

It's a little more nuanced than just straight hatred of trans men, it's a word for all the discrimination and struggles we face specifically bc we're trans men, but yeah pretty much

[fatmasc]

Im gonna be honest i think these disagreements with the term transandrophobia are falling into very hypothetical semantics. If oppression that is specific for transmasculine people does exist then why not call it what it is? Most people understand transandrophobia as meaning That: the oppression transmasculine people face, and not the implication that misandry is somehow real. I wasnt there for the origin of the term so if it was in the middle of people harassing trans femmes then i think criticism towards that sector of pro transandrophobia people can exist without disregarding the term entirely. (I say pro transandrophobia people to mean who are on board for using the term) If its already colloquially used as a term to describe transmasculine oppression on its own then why push back on it?

There is no oppression that transmascs face that transfems do not also face????? How many ways do i have to reiterate that there is no intersection of transphobia + androphobia bc androphobia and misandry dont exist. Saying transmascs have unique issues does not mean they have unique oppression. Theres a difference! The word oppression has a lot of weight to it u cant just apply it to any negative experience. Transmascs can talk ab and complain ab transphobia + sexism + stuff they deal w that transfems dont without throwing transfems under the bus!! Once again read this screenshot