#Baylan: perhaps

[sixtysixproblems]

so i saw some sort of clickbaity article when the ahsoka show was still coming out about how baylan was going to be revealed to be plo koon's former padawan, and this has been canon to me ever since. like it just works so well. also, the wolf motif.......my dudes I came up with the most cursed friendship (crackship) as a result of this, send help

Wolffe hates him instantly because of some miscomunication I haven't decided, meanwhile Baylan can sense it and is like "this guy's fascinating...anyways--" (proceeds not to think about him at all or resolve the situation in the slightest)

Baylan, internally: oh it's that strange commander again. alright (starts zoning off about the Mortis gods)

Wolffe, internally: I can't kill him, Plo would be sad. I can't kill him, Plo would be sad. I can't kill him, Plo would be sad, I can't fucking kill him-

Plo, who can sense both of these:

they do become friends though (eventually) and tease Plo about Ahsoka. Plo's glad his son-figures close friends are finally getting along, but at what cost?

Baylan: We have both been replaced. Forsaken

Wolffe: *nods morosely*

Baylan: You as his favorite Commander, and me as his favorite Padawan.

Wolffe: Betrayal.

Plo: I'm not even training Soka...

ALTERNATELY, if they met in some post-order-66 AU

Baylan: ...You're Commander Wolffe, correct?

Wolffe: *only vaguely recognizes his face, has no idea who he actually is* and what about me

Baylan: *ignites lightsaber* and you were General Koon's commander who carried out order 66, also correct?

Wolffe: *finally connecting the dots on who this guy is* oh fuck me

Plo, entering after the fight started: NO, BAYLAN, PUT HIM DOWN (pulls out spraybottle)

Bonus:

Wolffe: (stares at toddler Shin) what is that. is it possessed

Baylan: * head tilt * I believe I'm going to try and kill you again

Plo: *distracted* I HAVE A ✨GRANDCHILD✨???

[coruscanti-arabi]

Ahsoka was meant to stay trapped on Peridea.

The Father (Baylan), The Son (Shin) and The Daughter (Ahsoka/Morai).

With the Daughter destroyed (after saving Ahsoka's life in Clone Wars), I believe part of her destiny is to aid in restoring that balance.

Though I don't know how they'll do this storyline after the passing of Ray Stevenson because I don't think many fans would respond well to a recast.

[critter-of-habit]

***SPOILERS FOR AHSOKA EPISODE 4***

...

OK, hear me out. So, Sabine has been taken prisoner on a giant ship that's basically all engines to be able to jump to another galaxy.

Most of the crew are droids, with Morgan, Baylan, and Shin the only humans expected to be along for the ride.

What's the likelihood that they planned extra space on this incredibly single-purpose ship *just in case* they happened to end up with a prisoner?

And it's undoubtedly going to be a long trip there. Where, oh where, is Sabine going to sleep? Clearly, it needs to be somewhere that someone can keep a close eye on her, and Baylan and Morgan can both pull seniority to say "not it".

Somewhere, perhaps, where there's only one bunk...

Dammit anon I'm so weak for "there is only one bed"

Sabine sleeps like a drunk cat

[squidthoughts]

why doesn't shin leave?

that's the question, right? there are secondary ones, of course – why didn't she kill sabine/was she sandbagging their duel/did she intentionally perform a nonfatal stabbing/was she sent there to interact with sabine at all, or just for the map.... but really, my question at the end of ep1 was:

why is she waiting here at all?

"we've been looking for this," shin says, and that's what, an accusation? conversation-starter? she's here to talk? maybe, okay – except she's actively thieving, so what can she be expecting by sticking around but a fight? so she secures the map and she waits for sabine. to fight her. but the question is still why and in my unqualified opinion i think the answer is found back here:

"ahsoka tano's former apprentice is on lothal."

what do we know about baylan? he was a jedi, once. he witnessed the purge of his order and adapted to a life of survival – he maintains certain jedi traditions, he passes these traditions to his padawan: the braid, the traditional construction of the lightsaber, if not the crystal inside (standing mystery, though). he is nostalgic but not melancholy, connected perhaps to the more elegant and noble history of the jedi but evidently strongly opposed to assuming that title at present.

what do we know about shin? well...almost nothing. except that when baylan speaks, shin listens. she obeys unquestioningly. when morgan speaks, shin watches baylan. they are close; there is mutual trust, though clearly more dependency on shin's side. and she is likely – though not certainly – born after order 66.

i'm confident answers will be forthcoming about shin's past, but in the meantime, working with the (very!!) little we have, assuming the subtle intricacies of the shot direction and ivanna's acting are all intentional, and with the full disclaimer that im brainrotty for wolfwren......i want to answer my original question.

shin has never seen another apprentice before. beyond baylan and inquisitors (apparently), she has probably never seen another lightsaber-wielder before. and yet – her master, while scorning the label of jedi, is steeped in jedi history. he seems to be training her according to some traditional jedi principles (though...what with the mass-murder and the mercenary work, of course we don't yet know the extent of those principles), and it would follow that he would have imparted the history of the jedi as well.

baylan skoll is not a jedi. but ahsoka tano is. or, was. but the antagonist squad refers to her as a jedi, so from shin's perspective it's not just "ahsoka tano's apprentice" on lothal. she is being told there is a real, live jedi apprentice on lothal.

and the jedi are extinct.

we're into the rampant speculation part of the meta now, because what is shin thinking in this moment?

there's a green lightsaber before her – a jedi apprentice before her – or at least the former-apprentice-of-a-jedi, but shin is the apprentice-of-a-former-jedi, and at some point the semantics get in the way of the exhilaration. this is probably (again, this whole thing could get disproven in the next episode or something) the first lightsaber battle shin has ever had with someone who might actually kill her. (i assume baylan wouldn't engage in prolicide while sparring.)

this is, i think, shin at her most excited. on the one hand – it's another apprentice! it's another member of an order (her order??) that was supposed to be wiped out! this is proof of concept maybe, that shin isn't so alone! and on the other hand – this is a test, no? like, the first real test of shin's full abilities, assuming she's never dueled before? again, i wish we knew more about her motivations, but it stands to reason a padawan that powerful and devoted would constantly be looking for ways to both prove and improve herself, right?

and then. sabine. sucks.

she's sloppy and weak and doesn't use the force. she's untrained and undisciplined and slow and gets tired too quickly.

shin starts blocking with one hand. she starts sidestepping sabine's wild swings. there's no way she's is trying to kill her at this point; shin is playing with her food.

i just...think she's disappointed?? like, she was probably expecting so much more from a proper jedi's apprentice, and i think we'd need more information about her to extrapolate what exactly she wants in this scene, but i'd be willing to bet it wasn't this sub-par, former-apprentice bitch-ass fight. (love to sabine but like. she did get her clock cleaned. obviously.)

regardless, i am excited to see how this experience influences the forestfight™ we know is on the way...and also if sabine, like, feels...anything....about being skewered like a county fair corn dog?? i mean trauma or anger or fear or drive or?? bc we know shin wasn't actually trying to kill her, (this is my official stance and im sticking to it) but sabine sure doesn't!!

[jedimandalorian]

The Path to Peridea.

Baylan Skoll says that Peridea is from a fairy tale known to Jedi younglings, a children’s story, but in reality Baylan says this to remind us that Star Wars is exactly just that, a fairy tale, a children’s story.

What does “Peridea” mean?

peri: (in Persian mythology) a mythical superhuman being, originally represented as evil but subsequently as a good or graceful genie or fairy.

ASTRONOMY

peri: denoting the point nearest to a specified celestial body.

from Greek peri ‘about, around’.

dea: Latin for “goddess”

The descent into the underworld is one stage of the hero’s and the heroine’s journey.

As @better-call-mau1 pointed out, the Path to Peridea sounds a lot like the “path to perdition.”

perdition: (in Christian theology) a state of eternal punishment and damnation into which a sinful and unpenitent person passes after death.

Perhaps this is where Thrawn is, in a kind of hell.

But as in the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice, a brave lover is willing to descend into Hades to rescue the beloved. This is Sabine Wren’s mission to find Ezra Bridger.

There’s another meaning to “Peridea” though.

It is a genus of moths from the family Notodontidae.

The moth in The Lord of the Rings films brought Gandalf the Grey hope when he was imprisoned in the Tower of Orthanc. When the moth appeared, it was a sign that Gandalf would soon be rescued by the giant eagles, which are used as symbols of divine intervention in Tolkien’s fiction.

Please note that the letters on the star-map to Peridea resemble the Viking runes Tolkien used in The Hobbit. Both The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings are stories of a hero’s journey filled with danger and wonder. The brave protagonists have to go “there and back again” just as Sabine will in the Ahsoka series.

I think that Baylan Skoll reminding us that Star Wars is a children’s story is significant. Consider this quote from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows by J. K. Rowling.

“Of house-elves and children’s tales, of love, loyalty, and innocence, Voldemort knows and understands nothing. Nothing. That they all have a power beyond his own, a power beyond the reach of any magic, is a truth he has never grasped.”

In all the great fairy tales, the love and loyalty of the protagonist is the key to the triumph of good over evil.

Although she isn’t strong in the Force, Sabine Wren’s love for and loyalty to Ezra Bridger will strengthen her resolve on her road of trials along the Path to Peridea. With Ahsoka the Grey by her side, Sabine is ready to leave the comfort of Lothal (her Shire) and go to Peridea to save the man she loves.

Update, post Ahsoka Episode 6:

Here’s Huyang reminding us that this is indeed a fairy tale, a children’s story.

And here’s Thrawn, showing us how the villain “knows and understands nothing.”

“You wouldn't understand,” says Sabine.

“Perhaps not,” Thrawn responds.

What he doesn’t understand is love. The love and devotion that Sabine and Ezra have for each other is the power the dark lord knows not, and it will be his undoing.

I have spoken.

[obiwanwhat]

I am obsessed with Baylan's last scene. At first, it looks like a pretty straightforward shot of statues of the Father and the Son:

But if you look closer, you can see what looks like the outline of a now headless figure - the Daughter, perhaps???:

But if it is, that leads to more questions. Why is the Daughter's statue broken but not the Father or the Son's? Sure, the Daughter was the first to die on Mortis, but they all died in the end. So why are the other statues still standing? Does it have something to to with the Nightsisters? Is the Dark Side stronger on this planet because of the Nightsister's presence? Though that doesn't really fit with them wanting to leave the planet, and Baylan's comment about them being afraid of power stronger than theirs.

And then there's this shot:

The framing of the last shot, where his face is set right next to the Father's.....almost as if they're trying to compare the two? Is Baylan trying to become the Father? Are the spirits/remnants/nondescript Force energy that used to be the Father/Son/Daughter on this planet? Can that energy be accessed by a mere human? Does Baylan know about Mortis? If so, how? What is the connection between Mortis and this planet? Does Baylan actually know what he's doing, or is he a pawn in a bigger plot, being pulled by Forces greater than his understanding?

There's so many fascinating ways they could go with this, and I really hope that in the next season we're able to see where this arc goes!

[jedimasterbailey]

WARNING! AHSOKA SHOW RANT DOWN BELOW! SPOILERS!

Furthermore, I’m going to be completely honest in this review so if you’re someone who truly enjoyed the show, you’re a Rebels stan, etc. then this post isn’t for you. Haters will be blocked immediately so take your negative energy elsewhere. You have been warned!

For everyone else, buckle up because I’ve got a lot to say and I’d love to hear your thoughts on this as well. All comments are welcome so long as they are respectful to everyone.

Okay, so now that the show is done for now. I’m going to be listing some major talking points. We’re there some aspects of the show that I enjoyed/appreciated? Absolutely! But overall, I’m leaving this show very disappointed, confused, and frustrated. The finale left me feeling empty and never have I personally been more silent after a Star Wars show. Now mind you I think this has a lot to do with the fact that I love Ahsoka’s character dearly as well as the Clone Wars and the prequels so there is bias here. Furthermore I am pretty indifferent with Rebels so going in knowing that the Ahsoka show wasn’t going to be…well about Ahsoka but rather a Rebels sequel, that already put a bad taste in my mouth and I was very nervous how this show was going to go and well…it was exactly what I expected from a Filoni/cheap Disney production. Without further ado, here’s a list of all my beef.

1.) Lack of a Coherent and Cohesive Story

So I’ve mentioned this in a previous post, but my main issue with Dave Feloni productions is that the story seems to be going all over the place and there’s a lot of moving parts that don’t necessarily meld well together. I often think to myself that Ahsoka is an example of a poorly written fanfiction brought to the screen. So the plot of the show initally was focused on Ahsoka bringing Ezra home. Okay, that’s simple, there’s many different ways we can make that cool and interesting but that’s not what happened here. We’re just filled with a ton of confusing information and we’re in for a very boring journey heading for a very anticlimactic and unsatisfying ending.

For starters, we the audience are informed that Ahsoka and Sabine had started an apprenticeship (which I have ALOT of issues with but that’s for another talking point) but they got into a tiff (which we never find out about and/or see) and now things are just depressing and weird between them. First of all, anyone who has seen Rebels KNOWS that Ahsoka and Sabine literally had very little to do with each other; I can’t recall a single conversation those two have had in the past, nor was it ever eluded to us that Sabine is Force sensitive.

Second we see that Hera and Sabine don’t have anything to do with each other for some reason? Which is weird considering all that’s happened and their history but okay suddenly Sabine, a grown ass 30+ year old woman is Ahsoka’s responsibility, which again why? We don’t get any background information, we’re just expected to accept and go with it.

Third, Ahsoka and Hyuang are reunited and working together immediately but again do we know how that became to be? No. We see none of that.

Fourth we are told that Morgan Elsbeth, a one off antagonist from the Mandalorian that Ahsoka fought is suddenly a Dathormirian woman even though she looks nothing like one besides her outfits in the show nor was that eluded to previously.

Fifth, we are introduced to these two new…I don’t even know what to call them “dark siders” “non Jedi” Shin and Baylan (who is apparently a former Jedi from the Clone Wars but did we see that or see how he knew Ahsoka and Anakin? No.) but we aren’t given any reason to care about them other than they’re in Ahsoka’s way of completing her mission. They end up being more like time fillers that anything else and end up walking away from the big conclusion. Like…why are they even in this show and why should we care?

Perhaps Dave Feloni has this big grand story in his mind but he’s so far up his own ass that none of us get to see this story. It’s like seeing a little kid play with their action figures and they’re super passionate about it but as a outsider you have no idea what’s going on. Now this isn’t good not only for the sake of good storytelling but it’s bad for business too.

Disney wants to make as much money off of Star Wars as they can. That’s extremely obvious. However here you have a show that isn’t going to pull in a casual Star Wars viewers (they would have to watch so much content to catch up on whose who and what is going on) nor is it really going to pull in fans of Clone Wars and Rebels because while they overlap, the fandoms are different and Feloni hasn’t done a good job melding those worlds together thus the divisive opinions on this show. This leaves for an incredibly small niche of people and honestly I think whatever toy sells they make from this show will do better than the actual ratings. I would be shocked if they greenlit for another season because I’m pretty done with this story as is many of the people who would be willing to watch.

All in all this is embarrassing how Feloni and the gang with all the money and resources can’t pull off a simple and epic show when there are thousands of unpaid fanfic writers that could pull off a much better story and build these beloved up characters, which leads into my next point.

2. The Characterizations of Ahsoka, Sabine, and Hera Are Bad

Now I have mentioned previously how much I love Ahsoka but damn it upon watching this show, she may as well be dead. Ahsoka has been given the Luke Skywalker treatment in that Ahsoka has been stripped of everything that made her lovable in Clone Wars and Rebels and is left as a sorry shell of who she once was. Her dialouge is hollow and lifeless not like the lively Ashley counterpart that made us all love Ahsoka in the first place. And no don’t give this “well she’s older now” bullshti excuse because Obi Wan Kenobi never lost his cheekiness and charisma as an old man, neither did Yoda, or Leia, etc. Just because you age doesn’t mean you have to be lifeless. Maturity does not equate to emotionless. Secondly for a woman whose well into her fifties and still acts very much like a Jedi Ahsoka’s views on the Jedi and their philosophy seem very warped and the audience is again left confused as to where she stands on the Jedi. I mentioned in a previous post how I couldn’t stand Ahsoka’s negativity towards the Jedi and how nobody seems to matter but Anakin (even though he’s put her through a ton of trauma and has tried to kill her as Vader) because it’s just so distasteful to the people who raised her and loved her that died by genocide no thanks to Anakin. Ahsoka has zero character development other than she seems to forgive Anakin for his wrongdoings despite the nonexistent apology. For a show that has her name on it, she sure is boring. Makes me miss Ashley and old Ahsoka even more.

As for Sabine I probably could write a whole thesis on how unlikeable she is but I’ll keep it short. One, I find it sick on Feloni’s part that he’s having a grown 30+ year old woman act like a teenager and be snarky with just about everyone. Ezra, who annoyed me immensely in Rebels, was WAY more mature and grounded. And again I’m sick and tired of the Mandalorian excuse of you getting to be an asshole because youre Mandalorian. Shut up. No one is above manners and decency. Sabine’s actions in this show have been far from Jedi like and thanks to her immaturity, she left Ahsoka for dead once and is indirectly responsible for the death of New Republic officers who were trying to stop this very dangerous mission that could possibly bring Thrawn and the Empire back ensuing more death and destruction of innocents. Ahsoka deserves to be angry with her for her words and actions, but of course Sabine gets a free pass and her bad behavior will continue to be enabled.

As for Hera…when did she become such a Karen? Just because you’re an officer doesn’t mean you get to abuse your power for your own personal agenda. That Senator was right about her. Finding Thrawn is a threat to the galaxy and using resources and putting lives at risk for it is a big deal. Hera was depicted as honorable and responsible in the Rebels series and I swear I was watching a different person on screen. Also she is a major Sabine enabler and that needs to stop. Sabine is grown and needs to grow up and fix her attitude.

3.) Anakin’s Role In the Show

Now don’t get me wrong, I love Hayden and I love Anakin, I have the dude tattooed on me for Force sake so don’t come at me for that, but I had some issues on how his character was used here. First, I’m tired of Ahsoka’s relevance to Anakin being the only defining trait about her. Second, I’m continuously annoyed by Anakin’s lack of accountability in these shows; he never once apologizes to Ahsoka for all that’s happened, he never once’s has a meaningful conversation with her; he just basically beats her down until she finally lets go of her past. Did I love the Clone Wars flashbacks! YES! They were my favorite part of the entire show and I want MORE of that; but I so wish Anakin could have been reflecting on his own actions with Ahsoka instead of being like “Is ThAt WhAt ThIs Is AbOuT?” Like come on 🙄

4.) Ahsoka’s “It’s Time To Move On” Line

Are you kidding me Ahsoka? There is still so much more to unpack with her past such as all the other relationships she’s had that completely changed her trajectory like BARRISS and REX and she could also be a mentor figure to Luke and Leia, etc. But nope the only thing that matters is getting over Anakin and all is well despite being stranded in another galaxy and Thrawn being unleashed back home. Like THIS IS NOT OKAY!

5.) The Cheap Ass Production of this Show

I’m not normally one to comment on production but it was so obvious in this show how many corners were cut. For one characters like Thrawn look god awful. Dude looking like a blue Elon Musk instead of an intimidating villain. The use of fog and the volume were very obvious and the places we went to were so boring minus the red leaves forest. The worlds of Star Wars used to be so cool and otherworldly but that’s not the case nowadays and it’s sad. Also why does Force ghost Anakin look better in the 2000’s than it does now? I prefer quality over quantity so I really wish Disney would quit churning out these cheaply made productions and have the audacity to rise their Disney plus subscriptions and not pay their people well.

6.) THE RACISM

I’m so fucking tired of this y’all! 🤬 of course make the Jewish actor in the shipyard be greedy and power hungry. Of course make the Asian Senator the asshole and not any of the white protagonists. The antisemitism and racism against POC is unacceptable to me and it should be unacceptable to you too.

Conclusion

I’m sure I’m missing some talking points but these are my biggest grips and as an Ahsoka fan I’m disappointed. Being a miserable Jedi not Jedi responsible for bringing a new evil into the galaxy but being content being stranded in another galaxy is not the future I believe Ahsoka deserves and I sincerely hope they don’t continue this story. It’s just bad all around. Except for the Loth cats… the Loth cats can stay. And Clone Wars flashbacks.

[shinbine]

So, my girlfriend discovered that the names of the Nightsister “Mothers”, are different spellings of the Fates in Mythology. This is fitting since the Fates are quite literally “weaving” everyone’s fates and are in control of their paths, similar to Nightsister Magic.

But there’s more.

The witches (the fates) are the ones to pull Sabine away, entrapping her with magic and pulling her away. Away from Shin.

As sabine turns her head, it’s easy to think she’s looking at Baylan, perhaps frustrated with their agreement becoming more shaky—but look at the bottom. Her eye-line is directly aimed, lined up with Shin. In the last frame, what are they separated by?

The fates.

We also see that Shin looks at Sabine, around the same time that Morgan does… almost as if she’s trying to be protective of her? And where else do we see this?

Both on the ship on the descent down, and when Shin first brings her on the ship. It’s almost like she’s getting between Sabine and Morgan… Morgan is a Nightsister as well. She’s very close to the fates that are pulling them apart, which is quite literally referencing classic mythology. Shin seems to be protecting Sabine from Morgan, and Shin has stated on multiple occasions that she seems to have a distaste for Nightsisters (with her lines like “more witches?”)

Shin and Sabine have been torn apart by fate here, literally. It goes with every mythological story, and reminds me of classic tarot cards. In my opinion, Sabine and Shin represent the lovers—quite literally torn apart by fate.

The Fates, in the form of the Nightsister Mothers, have torn the lovers apart with magick (similar to the threads of fate that are woven in mythology). Shin and Sabine fit the “lovers” type a little too well. Especially with how concerned Shin has looked in the past… it’s like she knew. It’s like she’s aware of their uneasy fate, and she’s doing whatever she can to prevent it.

Sabine and Shin are the modern Star Wars equivalent of the lovers, and they’re beginning to realize it themselves.

[laughhardrunfastbekindsblog]

A possibly controversial thought about Sabine's choice in Ahsoka:

(Keeping this vague to avoid spoilers) In the book Dark Disciple, Obi Wan Kenobi is ultimately instructed by the Jedi Council to do something, but Kenobi keeps getting the distinct impression that the prescribed course of action is wrong. He heeds that gut feeling and doesn't follow through on the order, and thus the story concludes as it does with certain characters being saved/redeemed.

On screen, Kenobi had several chances to kill Vader and put a halt to the atrocities Vader was committing/would commit. But he didn't. And in the grand scheme of things, if Kenobi HAD killed Vader, Palpatine may never have been defeated, so the Empire and all the horrors it was inflicting on the galaxy would likely have continued for even longer. We aren't explicitly told this, of course, but I headcanon that, somehow, Kenobi knew that things would go horribly wrong if he killed Vader - perhaps he even felt it was the will of the Force that he not do so.

What does all this have to do with Sabine's choice?

Sabine acted out of desperation and probably even some selfishness when she gave the map to Baylan. She could have tried to destroy it (though we know that likely wouldn't have worked). She could have decided her promise to Ahsoka was paramount. She could have chosen to die rather than play any part in Thrawn possibly returning to the galaxy. She could have made the "unselfish," the "logical," the "dispassionate," the "right" choice.

But maybe - just maybe - Sabine is somehow acting in line with what the Force needs her to do. Maybe the Force needs Ezra back in the main galaxy, even if it means Thrawn comes back with him. Maybe the Force needs Sabine and Ahsoka on Peridea to stop whatever goes down there. Maybe, in the grand scheme of things, giving the map to Baylan was exactly the right choice, even if it doesn't make sense.

[antianakin]

@theneutralmime

First off, don't watch the Ahsoka show and even if you do, it's immensely anti-Jedi so none of it should be considered worthwhile content in figuring out how relationships work between the Jedi normally, especially since Ahsoka herself doesn't consider herself OR Sabine Jedi (she doesn't even WANT Sabine to be a Jedi). The only other Master/Padawan relationship in the Ahsoka show is Baylan and Shin who also don't consider themselves to be Jedi.

Here's the thing with "found family" as a concept. A lot of people like putting people into certain labels and going for a basic nuclear family mom/dad/kids kind of set up. But it does not HAVE to be that way. A "found family" can be a bunch of people who consider each other friends, with no familial feelings at all. It can be literally anything.

Rebels does go for more of a sort-of mom/dad/kids deal, particularly with Kanan, Hera, Sabine, and Ezra. Zeb however lives in a somewhat more nebulous gray area where you COULD see him as a fellow "child" in the dynamic, but he doesn't really care for being considered a child during the episode where he and the other Lasat find Lira San and he's clearly older and more experienced than either Ezra or Sabine, so he could just as easily be considered an "uncle" of sorts if you wanted to, or an older cousin or something maybe.

The other thing to consider with Rebels is that, while the group does include two Jedi, none of these relationships would necessarily be typical representations of how Prequels Jedi relationships would have looked or how they would've thought of each other. Kanan and Ezra's relationships to the rest of Ghost crew is impacted by that difference, especially since Ezra specifically did not grow up in the Temple among other Jedi and spent most of his childhood and early teens in a very different situation. And Kanan, by Rebels, would've spent more time WITHOUT any relationships with other Jedi than he would've had WITH them.

So with all of that in mind, I think that the Jedi's relationships aren't NEARLY as clear cut as people seem to want them to be. They're a family, yes, but they're a family that is 10,000 strong at least. I don't know about you, but I have a hard time keeping like less than 50 members of my family straight, what their names are and who they're related to, much less ten thousand people. I think it's very likely that all Jedi would feel a kinship to fellow Jedi, but that they probably don't personally know every single Jedi. In TCW, Ahsoka seems to need to be introduced to Tera Sinube for the first time when she's 14 years old. So while she might see someone like Plo Koon as a closer parental figure, she's not going to feel the same way about Tera Sinube who she barely knows.

I think any Master/Padawan relationship is going to sort-of vary depending on the individuals involved. Some of them might be quite close, some might be more professional. Some might be pretty close in age and so their dynamic leans closer to friends and siblings than it would parent and child. Others might have a larger age gap and so the dynamic could lead closer to parent/child or even grandparent/grandchild. Some of them might shift over time, too, or have layers of more than one of these dynamics. For example, Anakin calls Obi-Wan "the closest thing he's ever had to a father" in AOTC, but Obi-Wan calls him a brother twice in ROTS. So their relationship may have had shades of both dynamics given the age difference, the relationship dynamic could have shifted over time from a more parent/child relationship to a more sibling relationship, or they each may have seen the relationship slightly differently with Anakin looking more for a parental dynamic while Obi-Wan is perhaps going more for a relationship of equals (at least by ROTS). It could be any of these three things combined, too.

There's a comic where Obi-Wan is asked whether Anakin is his son and Obi-Wan responds that no, Anakin is his Padawan, his student. While this isn't strictly canon, I think it fits quite nicely into my interpretation that the Master/Padawan relationship is its own specific kind of dynamic and while it can be SIMILAR to other kinds of relationships, it is very much its own thing. It's not a static relationship, it's not just the Jedi version of parents and children, it is a distinct relationship that changes and grows with the individuals. There is no 1:1 comparison for all Master/Padawan relationships.

As for Ezra and Jacen, you could apply a similar concept. Kanan, much like Obi-Wan with Anakin, fills a parental role for Ezra, but he's also growing and developing ALONGSIDE Ezra and could be considered a younger brother of sorts, too. Jacen is family to Ezra, but I don't think you HAVE to place a particular label on what that dynamic is, whether they'd consider each other like brothers or whether Ezra would be more of an uncle. And it doesn't even have to specifically be defined by their respective relationships to KANAN, either. Jacen and Ezra might come up with their own dynamic that has nothing to do with how they each feel about Kanan and is specific to their own relationship. I don't think you have to be super specific about saying that because Kanan was Ezra's Master, this automatically makes Ezra basically his son and so Ezra and Jacen should consider themselves like brothers and never have an uncle/nephew dynamic. I think Ezra and Jacen can be whatever you want them to be to each other.

[loth-creatures]

Hello Loth-creatures, I had a question after rewatching your released chapters of your AU (it's amazing, by the way😍)

Since Kanan reacted quite calmly to learning that Ezra is a Lothwolfwalker, does this mean that he heard about these people in the Jedi Order when he was a youngling? Or has he simply seen so much in his life that seeing something like this is no longer particularly surprising for him? :D

Thank you!! 🥰🥰🥰

So Kanan has never heard of the lothwolfwalkers before, for him it's definitely a case of 'this is the most insane thing I've seen but not by much' and I feel like once he gets past the initial shock, he can feel in the Force that its right and it just clicks into place and makes sense to him.

HOWEVER the Jedi did know about the lothwolfwalkers, and fragments of stories still existed in the Temple on Coruscant before the purge. Very old, mostly forgotten fragments buried deep in the archives and libraries. Myths. Fairy tales.

I was talking about this to a friend a while back who suggested that Yoda easily could have met the wolfwalkers before they disappeared, as he's so old. Perhaps he is the only Jedi who remembers them. Perhaps he met them while investigating the Jedi temple on Lothal. I get the feeling that that temple is ancient, and maybe forgotten to the Jedi even before Yoda's time.

Anyway this also got me thinking about Baylan Skoll, and his evident interest in myths and legends. I imagine he discovered the stories of wolfwalkers while digging around in the archives, was facsinated by them but never dreamed they could be real. I wonder if finding out they were real many years later, is what spurred him into chasing after other fairy tales...

[melanie-ohara]

In The Woods Somewhere - Chapter 2

Whumpuary2024, Day 06 - Prompt: Used as Bait

Sabine faces off against the bandit leader in a last ditch attempt to save her mortal enemy...

This one contains a lot of Making Stuff Up about those Peridean bandits, so one day it'll probably stop being canon compliant

AO3 here

Three hours earlier....

Shin's tent was cold, and she rubbed her balled fists against her chest to warm herself up as she crossed from her bunk to the wash basin. Behind her, she heard the flap open as Feldspar, the leader of the bandits, entered without asking. Shin ignored him for a moment and instead looked at her own face in the cracked mirror. She looked pale and tired, but that was no surprise. The last of her eyeliner was smudged and barely visible around her eyes. She considered using charcoal from the burnt-out fire but no matter how naked she felt without her warpaint, it made her skin itch after a few hours. 

"Sister," Feldspar prompted, and Shin forced herself not to grimace. These men were descendents of the original Nightbrothers, and they were nothing like the zabrak colony that still existed on Dathomir: Shin had spent long enough around Morgan Elsbeth to know they were more like the witches of old. When she had first come to them, they had mistaken her ashen skin and pale hair for a Nightsister's, and she had never tried to correct them. It suited her purposes, but pretending to be a witch sickened her.

"Feldspar," she greeted coldly, without looking around. 

The men had lost - or maybe never had - the ritual knowledge of their sisters, but they had an instinctive connection to the living Force Shin could barely comprehend, let alone match. Their ability to predict had led them to their quarry without fail, but their empathic telepathy was less helpful: Shin had to seal her mind from them to avoid giving herself away.

"Our enemies are near," Feldspar said. His voice slithered like rats over a corpse. "They threaten balance, and we must strike them down."

Shin had never been able to determine if that phrase meant that the Jedi and her pet Mandalorian threatened to destroy something the bandits protected, or threatened to bring balance to chaos. Peridea made no sense to her, not since Baylan had abandoned her to it and struck out on his own.

She shook her head. "My former Master is a greater threat now." Shin dipped her head and splashed cold water over her face. It washed off the last of her makeup, and she frowned at how young her reflection looked. How small. 

Feldspar moved closer, until Shin could see him in the mirror. He wasn't wearing his helmet, and his grey skin and lipless mouth full of rows of spiked teeth were off-putting so early in the morning. 

"We have the opportunity to end your Jedi now," he hissed insistently. 

Shin tilted her head forwards a little to examine the dark roots of her hair. Before she could stop herself, she wondered if the purple-haired Mandalorian had any bleach.

Feldspar stepped into her personal space and came close to her ear. "Perhaps you can take it from her once she's dead ," he said, and Shin winced. Feldspar would have felt the curiosity in the thought, and the distinct lack of malice she held for Sabine Wren. 

She turned to fix his sharp silver eyes with the hardest glare she could muster. "Fine," she said. "Prepare a war party." 

Feldspar nodded and left, and Shin was overwhelmed by a crushing sense of foreboding.

*

Shin walked at the head of the formation, a step behind Feldspar. The bandits travelled in a loose group that looked random and disorganised at first glance, but was carefully calculated to maximise sightlines. The forest closed in around them, and Shin couldn't see far into the darkness around them. The Nightbrothers eyes' were better adapted to the dark and she was forced to rely on them to navigate. The feeling that had struck her in the tent had only grown the further they'd gone, and now it was balled up in her chest like a secret she could barely keep. 

"Hold," Feldspar whispered. His voice was barely audible to Shin but the others all stopped, no matter how distant they were. Feldspar's eyes were closed against a vision - Shin could tell from the pale wisps of green smoke that flitted out from under his eyelids. "Here," he said, after a moment. "Scatter."

With a rustle of parting undergrowth, the bandits vanished into the darkness. 

"We've tried an ambush before," Shin pointed out. It was cold and dark and the anxiety was making her irritable. Baylan would have chided her for being unfocused. She wished she couldn't think like him.

"Not with bait," Feldspar said, and Shin's lightsaber was in her hand and ignited before she had even processed the thought screaming in her head. The Nightbrother was ready for her though, and grabbed her wrist in a crushing grip, forcing the blade out and away. "I am sorry, Sister," he said, and a white heat filled Shin's stomach as his blade forced its way inside. "But a bird will fly to a dying wolf."

Shin coughed. It didn't hurt, not yet. She knew it would, once the shock had passed and her brain caught up with her body, but she had a few seconds to bring up her free hand and hurl Feldspar into a tree hard enough to break his neck. Her arm refused to obey her. She glanced down and saw the cursed green tendrils of witch magic curled around the blade. She couldn't even spit in his face as he yanked the blade free and shoved her down to the ground. Pain battled with fury and hate as Feldspar reached down to pick her lightsaber up from where it had fallen.

Now....

Sabine grabbed her helmet from Shin's side and put it back on, turning as she got back to her feet to face the bandit leader stepping out of the shadows. The familiar sound of Shin's lightsaber igniting pierced the air and the orange light glittered in the rain as he advanced on her slowly.

"That doesn't belong to you," Sabine told him as she unhooked her only lightsaber and switched it on. She had barely found her guard position when the bandit surged forwards faster than Sabine thought possible and struck for her head. She twitched her hands up to block his strike and tried to use the pull of the blades to open his guard. The bandit yanked Shin's blade free of the lock and stabbed forwards, forcing Sabine to hop back a step and swing her lightsaber down and out in a weak block that opened up her left side. She struck out to get some breathing room, but it was wide and predictable and he easily countered. 

This was bad. 

The bandit was forcing her back, step by step, as each of his strikes forced her into a stance that gave him an opening to attack again. Before she could even hope to find an opening, the bandit leader forced her lightsaber out of the way and lined up a shot that would take her head. Sabine tried to lift her left hand to take the blade on her vambrace, but she knew before she moved it would be too late. 

Or it would have been, if the bandit's lightsaber hadn't stuck in the air like it had hit a rayshield. 

Stunned, Sabine stared at Shin. The fight had pushed her back past her prone form until she was behind the bandit leader, only now she was sitting up and reaching out, clamping the Force tight around her own lightsaber blade and holding it in place. 

Her face was contorted with agony as her other hand gripped at her guts. "Kill him!" she screamed.

Rallying, Sabine swung her lightsaber down to slice through his wrist. Shin's hilt dropped from his severed hand and before he could even scream Sabine raised her foot and booted him hard enough in the chest to send him sprawling into the mud. Before she could move back to Shin, blaster fire erupted out of the trees around her. Sabine managed to catch a few bolts with her blade before they started to impact her beskar. Her visor glowed with red and orange cutting sizzling paths through the rain and within seconds she was overwhelmed. She dropped her lightsaber as she dropped to her knees, just managing to wrap her forearms around her abdomen below the protection of her chestplate. She knew it wouldn't be long before one of their shots found a gap - and even if they didn't, beskar wouldn't hold up forever. Eventually the steel would collapse, and she would die. She glanced over at Shin, and through the blur of colour she saw that she was out cold. 

"I'm sorry," she whispered, and closed her eyes.

She felt the rush of the Force moving around her before she saw what was happening. Ahsoka, resplendent in her bright white robes, landed between her and the blaster fire. Her saber erupted into life and whirled in a tightly controlled circle, deflecting bolts into the trees. Sabine's lightsaber shot off the ground by her knee and into Ahsoka's free hand.

"Go!" her Master shouted back at her. "Get her to Huyang!"

Sabine stared for a half-second as Ahsoka started advancing, a tornado made of light swirling around her and turning the rain to steam. She shook herself and grabbed a blaster in one hand as she ran, bent low, to Shin's side. She was still breathing, but barely, and Sabine scooped her into her arms as gently as she could with blaster bolts churning up the mud around them. She wrapped one arm around Shin's back and supported her knees with her other forearm, keeping her blaster gripped tightly as she stumbled back the way she had come. 

She couldn't protect Shin like this, and her heart was in her throat the entire desperate sprint towards the sunlight bleeding through the edge of the forest. She nearly fell twice, and forced herself to slow down a little. Behind her, she could still hear Ahsoka fighting the bandits back, and wished she could turn back and help her. Shin, her mortal enemy, needed her more than her ally now, though, so she pressed on. 

Relief almost made Sabine scream: Mirshko was waiting for them, already kneeling so they could clamber on. Ahsoka must have brought him when she followed her. Sabine lifted Shin onto Mirshko's back, dimly aware of how light she was compared to the last time they had tangled before she forced thoughts about how malnourished the other woman was out of her head. Gaping stomach wound first, she thought as she swung her leg over Mirshko's back and clicked her tongue. He rose to his feet under her as she wrapped her arms around Shin's waist to keep her close, and then kicked her heels into the Howler's flank. They left the battle behind, and sprinted towards the T6. 

*

Shin woke slowly and painfully. Her insides were on fire and her head throbbed at the over-bright ceiling lights. Panic set in when she didn't recognise the room she was in, and she tried to cry out through a parched and scratched throat. All she managed was a hoarse grunt, but it got the attention of whoever was in the room with her.

"Lady Hati," a blurry grey and white shape said, in a voice that Shin guessed was meant to be soothing. "Please relax."

Shin tried to reach out and crush it with the Force, but her arms were bound to the bed and no amount of straining would break their hold, not while she was so weak. She screamed again, and this time managed a cracked and broken howl. 

"The bindings are for your own safety, as well as mine," the droid explained. "Lady Wren extends her apologies. In fact, perhaps I should fetch her."

Shin barely heard the droid, and ignored the sound of the door opening and closing, focusing instead on blinking her eyes into focus. Once she could see, she could block out the pain, and once she could block out the pain, she could escape her bindings, and then she could slaughter her way out. 

She shook her head as her vision cleared, and a smudge of colour caught her eye. On the wall by the bed, someone had drawn a lothcat. She recognised it from the first time she had met Sabine Wren, underneath that transmission tower so long ago. So far away. The drawing was close to where her hands were bound, and she could just trace the edges of them with one of her fingers if she stretched it. It was the Mandalorian's handiwork, that was clear, and she realised with a strange spike of a feeling she had no name for that she was lying in her bed. She remembered Feldspar spearing her and leaving her for dead. She remembered Sabine. She had stared up into her warm brown eyes as rainwater ran down out of her hair and wondered how she had ever wanted to kill her. 

"Shin?" 

It was her. She didn't need to turn her head to know, though she had never heard her voice strain that way before. She didn't know what she could possibly say and kept her eyes fixed on the lothcat drawing on the wall rather than face those eyes again. 

Sabine looked down at her. Without a bacta tank, Huyang had assured her his surgery skills could save her life and banished her from her own room while he knitted her back together. Shin looked so weak it was hard to believe she could ever be dangerous. Sabine knew she was, even now, tied down and wracked by pain, but it didn't stop her. She pulled the desk chair over from the other side of the room and sat down at Shin's side.

"I'm going to stay here," she said softly, when Shin still refused to take her eyes off the little drawing of Murley on the wall. Cautiously, she rested her hand on Shin's wrist. It reminded her of the way Shin had led her around on Elsbeth's ship when she was a prisoner, and hoped Shin would be able to take something of the same strange comfort she had felt from her then. 

After a long moment, Shin nodded.

[thousand-winters]

Thinking again about Force bonds and the first years post Order 66 in which Baylan had to go in hiding.

We know, because of cases like Kanan and Ezra's, that the Force sometimes does push Force users gently into the direction of someone they're compatible with for a bond.

I can imagine Baylan right after Order 66, heartbroken, trying to survive. Along the way he sees other jedi trying to survive just like him. He doesn't approach them, not even when he sees them being hunted down because the odds wouldn't be in their favor even with an extra pair of hands helping. Baylan wants to intervene, he itches to, it's almost physically painful to walk away from it. But helping is what a jedi would do, and if he wants to survive, Baylan can't be a jedi anymore.

So he runs. From planet to planet, keeping a low profile, staying hidden, only looking out for himself. He sees the clones hunting down jedi along the way, he sees the surge of the Inquisitors. He keeps going, never staying long anywhere, never finding a reason to do it. Every time he sees someone get killed and stays idle, he feels himself edging a little closer to the darkside. The pain leaks into his saber and the pure green it used to be now dances with tendrils of crimson.

He used to be able to look at the people on each planet and see hope, he used to want to help them with their problems to ensure their peace. He learns to let go of those impulses.

Or that's what he thinks anyway.

But the day comes where he lands in a planet that seems practically devoid of life. A wasteland more than a planet, truly, even if it used to look worse decades ago. He doesn't even fully get why he's here, though he's heard the stories, like every other jedi around his age that was a padawan when he was. Another quasi-miracle performed by Kenobi and Skywalker. Is that what he's looking for here? A miracle?

What he finds instead are Inquisitors, only two of them, but enough to make him decide he should turn tail and run. He's only looking out for himself now, he thinks, but his mantra isn't enough to bury the screams in the Force. His own screams? Screams from ghosts of the past?

Or the screams of the girl the Inquisitors are chasing?

Baylan doesn't even realize he's running in that direction until he's already there, almost like a puppet whose strings have been pulled in that direction. It's instinct what's moving him, but not only that. There's something more at play.

When he steps in front of her, the green in his saber that hasn't been already consumed by the spidery cracks of bloodied red seem to shine brighter than ever, directly in the surprised eyes of the girl.

But not just a girl.

'Mine. Mine. My apprentice. My own.'

Are those the whispers of the Force or Baylan's own wishes? Is there any difference?

Once upon a time, perhaps he would have answers, but not today. The only thing he knows is that for the first time in ages, there's a feeling of contentedness in the Force.

[vergencescatter]

The Father, the Son, and the Daughter

In what we're to believe is his great quest, Baylan's only appearance in episode 8 shows him standing on the arm of a giant statue of the Father. (I don't think there is any debate that this statue and the others depict the Mortis gods (or beings, because I don't necessarily see them as gods in the traditional sense), especially with the earlier appearance of Morai).

Observe, on the right, a statue depicting the Son, who, from the Clone Wars [s3, e15-16], we know is aligned with the dark side. On the left, we see a statue of the Daughter, who is aligned with the light side. Her statue has been completely disfigured. This symbolism alone is very curious. One interpretation is quite literal: that Baylan is connected to the dark side of the force, or that his path - his quest - belongs to the dark side in some manner. Another interpretation pertains to the nature of the planet Peridea. As I wrote before, Peridea appears to be marked by some sort of dark magick. As Baylan remarked in episode 6, "Something stirs here". And so, perhaps the crumbling nature of the statue depicting the Daughter is symbolic of this darkness.

One thing I noticed speaks to the first interpretation. As Baylan stands at the hand of the Father, staring into the distance, one sees on the horizon a mountain with what appears to be a pulsing beam of light (edit: since first publishing this post, I realised this could very well be the Mortis monastery). The light is shooting out from the mountain peak upwards into the sky. From the perspective we're given, it appears this is the direction the hand of the Father statue is pointing. Surely, that is not a coincidence; coupled to the fact that we know something is calling to Baylan.

At present, I can't see any of this having to do with Abeloth. I just don't see any sort of Abeloth arc being consistent with the trinity of the Mortis beings. I would not be surprised if it was the Son, who, for whatever reason, had become aware of Baylan and has since been calling to him. We know this has happened in the past. After Ezra discovered the mural of the Mortis gods on the Jedi Temple of Lothal, which led to the entrance of the World Between Worlds, upon exiting the Son spoke to him [Rebels, s4 e13]. Thinking about it now, it could be interpreted as though he was calling to Ezra: "the future can still be changed" .

[cativiascorner]

Let’s talk about EP 7’s Title: Dreams and Madness

I firmly believe the original intent of the titling is a tie to both Baylan & Shin. Master & Apprentice. It trickles down to Ahsoka & Sabine as well but I’ll get to that later. MAYBE ILL EVEN GET INTO HOW IT TIES THRAWN AND MORGAN ELSBETH TOO anyway:

Baylan has gone mad, over this dream of his, this ancient power. He pulls unexpected moves this ep and straight up ABANDONS Shin. Seeing as he mentioned he literally raised her: To have acted in this manner, all on a unknown (to them) planet in an unknown galaxy, he’s lost it. You wouldn’t leave someone that you RAISED, and KNOW isn’t ready for events to come. He is acting on whims of a faraway dream that is unfortunately likely going to be his undoing. At the expense of Shin? We’ve yet to see and I fear for it.

Moving onto Shin’s relationship with the title: Shin can clearly be seen nearly taking Ahsoka’s offered help. She literally took a step toward her hand, looking really, really weary. Poor babygirl. To her, the idea of working with them is a Mad Dream. It’s mad because all she’s ever known is Baylan’s teachings (as far as we’re aware. He raised her in the wilds from what lines we got.) and it’s dream because it’s so out of her realm of potentials. But she didn’t expect to lose her master who was chasing his OWN mad dream. Fuck.

At this point it may seem clear the thought path I follow but I’d like to talk about the other two pairs briefly.

Ahsoka: Her dream is finding Sabine. It can also be seen as her dream to help Shin. (Sobbing don’t mind me) The madness is the path that lies ahead. Taking on Thrawn. Or perhaps she finds it mad to have found Ezra after all these years. Ow.

Sabine: Do i really need to explain these ones?????? Dreams: Ezra. Shin. (Gayass.) Becoming a Jedi. Madness: How she got to Ezra, what she has yet to tell him, etc. That’s quite a long list if I start thinking about it critically…

And bonus rounds!

Thrawn: Thrawns dreams of course are to leave this forsaken galaxy and begin reforming the imperial remnants. You know, the ones Senator BitchassXiorno says “dOeSn’T eXiSt.” I sincerely hope he sees the err of his ways. Don’t fuck with Hera Syndulla. Anyway, his madness is also the same as his dream. With a the very real possibility of Sabine and Shin forming a temporary at minimum alliance..( maybe, just maybe, a really scary powerful Baylan) his plans could quickly be turned to ruin. But he’s ready for that so I am eager to see how this plays out. But fighting this fight would be one of madness. He is overextended and TIRED. He wants his Sheer force back so he can emit his extreme tactical prowess. He literally has an UNDEAD ARMY. FROM MAGIC. IF THAT ISNT MAD I DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

Morgan Elsbeth: Her dreams are smaller and more centric, as pointed out by Thrawn. She dreams to crush any presence of the Rebels immediately and without hesitation. We also haven’t gotten that deep into this characters psyche but I really think a deep part of her has a good reason for being so frequently valuable to the core plan. She’s quite intimidating, and I think they’ve been slowly prepping her for something even more grand than her construction of the warp ring. The night mothers, of course. Not Thrawn himself. Madness, could also be tied in with prior reasoning. Many would think her mad purely based off the fact she’s a Nightsister in the first place.

That was a lot more than I thought I was gonna write that was fun. I hope my rambling has some coherence!

[wolfwrenbrainrot]

Just saw that video of Ivanna saying episode 6 is the one she's the most excited for fans to see  👀

Besides Thrawn and Ezra's return, which I'm pretty sure it'll be today, perhaps we'll be getting some tips on Shin's backstory??? Although I doubt we'll get all the answers this season (knowing Lucasfilm, they'll probably tell Baylan's and Shin's story in a novel or a comic book series, since they were both so well-received by fans), buuut I hope we get to know more about her. And, of course, some Wolfwren interactions!!!