#Child abuse is never okay

[generalluxun]

Hey. Asking about how Chloe was abused. My knowldge of abuse is fairly limited to general pop knowledge so I'm curious as to what abuse was done to her.

Okay caveats first:

I am not a medical professional, I am simply someone with a vested interest in the topic who has done more research than the average person.

There are many definitions of abuse. Legal definitions are rarely useful, as they are limited to concrete, provable, gross violations. Just as you can inflict a lot of pain on someone without leaving the marks to prove assault, you can do a lot of damage to a child without it being legally 'provable'. Medical definitions are much more helpful for discussions.

Lastly some level of extrapolation is required as it is a show. We take what we are shown. For example:We actually only have Felix's word that he was ever abused, and his first character traits sre being deceitful and manipulative. We still take his word though, because it's a show. (And also we should give weight to victim accounts!)

So both parents are guilty in different ways. We will start with Audrey, the simpler one. There's clear verbal and emotional abuse demonstrated on screen. Mis-naming your child is a form of abuse:please ask the trans community about the impact of deadnaming even in full grown adults.

Beyond that she is constantly dismissive and belittling of her child- to the exclusion of all else. Style Queen/Queen Wasp is rife with examples. There is also the clear behavior shift in Chloé. The wheeling, approval seeking, hunched posture expecting rejection. This is a *pattern* not a one off. Audrey may live in NY, but no fashion movil would be away from Paris for 13yrs straight. We are simply seeing the most recent interaction. This culminates im a child having to ask 'Why don't you love me mother?' and the response is telling

Audrey barely chokes out the strange word when trying to contradict the question. It takes Marinette literally making them both mad at her to get a bare minimum of interaction on Audrey's part. It doesn't last though. Audrey falls back into her negation behaviors and is now present to inflict them more regularly on Chloé, while also being a constant target for/model of behavior for Chloé. (Seriously it was such a misstep to write Marinette reuniting a victim with an abuser) We know the show itself considers Audrey'ss care as a bad thing because the original script had André divorcing her and takin Zoé because Zoé 'doesn't deserve you' so Chloé being in an abusive parenting situation in Representation is supposed to be 'punishment'(ewww)

André is not off the hook either. People look at him 'spoiling' her and leave it at that. Well, 'spoiling' can in fact be abusive too. Let's look at what we see:

André has been her primary caregiver for 14 years now, so he has had the most responsibility in molding what we see for good or bad(mostly bad). She does learn from him too. Darkblade she proudly announces she learned everything about winning elections from watching her father. He's also excessively arrogant (I'm the symbol of Paris!) and quite willing to abuse his power for his own ends(having Roger round up protestors etc) which explains where Chloé learned where power is to be abused.

André is also extremely neglectful as a parent, extreeeeemely. Let's hit a bunch of points in the order they come to me.

Chloé lives *alone* in a hotel suite. There's no shared space, no family area. It's not even really her room. It's commercial, sterile. Where sre her hobbies? Posters? Even her *colors*? She is so used to being ignored at home that the girl who is loud as heck everywhere else doesn't make a single mark on her living space.

A hotel employee seems to think he needs to step in to raise Chloé. Let that sink in. An employee can see how bad it is and tried to make some kind of change, (he's working against a lifetime of ingrained behavior and is not very good at it himself). He doesn't even think to you know... Get Andre in to do this.

André was unaware or didn't care his daughter hasn't done schoolwork since Sabrina *learned to write*(5/6 yrs old) that is a shocking level of disinterest in your child. 6yr olds aren't criminal masterminds.

Andre supplants actual attention and affection with *stuff* he gives material possessions in *place* of parenting. This is somewhat similar to spoiling but not the same. André's method denies the child something vital. You see- things aren't a substitute for affection/attention, developmentally. And so while they may delight they never satisfy the need. They never validate the emotional attachment. So after the shine wears off, the hole is still there. So, like someone with an addiction, the child needs more, and more, and more. Since the needs are never met, it is never enough. And this is what the child views as *normal* this is simply *how it is*. They rarely know they are being given inadequate care because it's just life to them. Seeing something different in a one off doesn't make a dent vs a whole life.

This sort of thing makes a potent cocktail when mixed with the abandonment issues from her mother too. See- if her mother left, and daddy doesn't pay attention, anyone can leave. This leads to a cycle of pushing/demanding/hurting. The child expects to be left and let down, so they both try to reassure themselves it won't happen, and *make* it happen on their own terms (because they believe deep down it will) so more outrageous demands, because when those demands are met, it shows that you are still 'loved' and when they are not met, then there you go, you are not loved and they will leave you. It's a self-destructive spiral.

You see it play out with her interactions with her classmates and Sabrina specifically. How does she express affection? Gifts. What does she do? Push. Push and push and find the breaking point because if she can make Sabrina actually leave then it shows that she herself is worthless and her mother was right to leave her and her father is right to ignore her. Pretty messed up right? Yeah. Child abuse does horrible things to kids.

We're not done with André yet. Some people might say 'he expresses love for Chloé!' and to that I say- performatively.

André likes the idea of being a father. It's what respectable people do. It looks good on camera. It's someone to love him unconditionally. It's an ally against his wife.(broken home dynamics are horrible too) André just doesn't like having to parent for more than a snapshot.

We can see his interactions with Zoé highlight this too. He's delighted she's here!(a potential person on his side vs his wife and daughter) what's his first parenting advice? 'lock your dreams away and get on with life' A+ André.

What's he do in Queen Banana? He uses his power to let Chloé manipulate the movie *kicking Zoé out of it* This is the guy who is supposed to be supporting her? He only draws the line when it comes to sending Zoé away... Why? He doesn't want to lose an 'ally'. It's power dynamics. Not parenting. Where was he when Zoé was stuck in boarding school? He was going to keep Zoé in the divorce so clearly Mr Lee isn't in the picture, Audrey probably forgot Zoé existed, why didn't André bring Zoé to France and let the sisters grow up together? Oh, right, that might be work.

André likes Zoé because she comes pre-raised(boarding school was probably better than either parent) he doesn't have to put in work and he gets a free good kid to make him look like a father. She's his 'do over' as he throws the one he raised in the trash.

André shows his true colors when he's lamenting to Gabe about his corruption and abuse and blames ot on his 'heartless daughter' you know... The child he raised. The grown man is actually shoving his own corruption and misdeeds onto his child. You really don't need much more than that.

So, via neglect, verbal abuse, and emotional abuse the Bourgeois parents raised an incredibly messed up child. Chloé is not a 'good victim' like Adrien, she doesn't sulk quietly under abuse. She lashes out. She is hurt and angry and she passes the pain on. This is why they call it the cycle of abuse.

The end of Revolution illustrates this perfectly. Audrey throws verbal abuse at her on the plane. Angry that Chloé embarrassed her(not that she did wrong, Audrey loved the power grab) and calls her a loser by implication. You *see* it hit, the physical cringe. Then Chloé immedietely goes to try and pass on the pain. She is hurt and making someone else hurt is the only way to lessen it. She calls Marinette. Marinette breaks the cycle though, and good for her. But the show seems to have forgotten there's still one hurt child in this scene, and it doesn't seem to care.

I'm going to stop here for now. I probably left a bunch out, but I do have other things I need to do. Feel free to ask more questions. Thanks for taking the time to seek answers.

[seven-stars-in-his-palm]

the thing i love about bill cipher is that even after i've learned all of this stuff about him, seen him at the most vulnerable he'll ever get, seen him at his most innocent, i still can't give a flying fuck about trying to justify his actions. yes he's traumatized, yes he was twisted into what we know today, and while it gives a semblance of context to why he did what he did, it doesn't matter. he still ruined ford's life. he still drove and baited multiple humans to suicide. he still tormented every human he saw as his ticket out of the consequences of his own actions. he still took delight in his actions. he was willing to commit genocide for fuck's sake!!! (freezing all of the humans into statues). trying to explain away what he did does not get rid of what he did, but it certainly puts it in perspective. you won't be catching me being a bill apologist any time soon <3

[kazoosandfannypacks]

tylor tuskmon core

[pinkeoni]

More Willel Mirroring: Textual vs. Subtextual Abuse

So not only do Will and El's mirrored storylines reveal ideas about sexuality, but they also present an interesting narrative about the different facets of child abuse.

Also, for this post I think I want to just want to focus on season one. There is absolutely subtext for abuse across the other seasons, but since the first season was written to hold on its own, it does create an interesting self contained story about child abuse.

TW for discussion of child abuse

This time around I am probably going to be focusing on Will more than El, because Will's abuse lies more in subtext whereas El lies more on the surface. And there are layers of metaphor and subtext for both instances, which I touch on in my sexuality longpost, although it is much easier to point to El's story and say "she is being abused." After all, this is what happens in the show as well.

The age and lived experiences of the characters does impact their perception, however.

An adult like Benny is able to look at El and understand that she's likely been abused, but young boys like the party who don't know any better think she's crazy. Regardless, it's obvious with El, a little girl with a shaved head who doesn't say much with no sense of privacy that something is wrong with her.

I think that Will and El's storylines are meant to represent invisible versus visible abuse, thus El's abuse is textual while Will's abuse storyline is subtextual. With El, it's hard for her to hide her abuse. As for Will, it's much more concealed. In Jonathan's words—

"He's good at hiding."

The inclusion of this line is part of what points towards Will's abuse. It postulates a couple of questions— why is Will good at hiding and what was he hiding from? Furthermore, I think this line plays into the idea of Will's abuse being hidden. You can't tell just by looking at him that he's been abused, at least from what we see of him in the show. And when you look at his story from a surface level, you may not catch on to this.

Gleaning subtext from Will's flashbacks

El and Will are the two characters that we get flashbacks for, and for both we see what their differing home lives are like. El is being treated like a weapon in the lab by Papa, and Will shares some wholesome moments with Joyce and Jonathan.

Because Will is not presently on screen for much of season one, so a lot of his characterization has to be delivered through flashbacks. Within these flashbacks, there is a lot that can be gleaned from just below the surface that points toward Will being abused.

Lonnie may not be on screen for any of these flashbacks. But if you look closely, his presence is definitely felt.

Flashback #1) Castle Byers

First off, Castle Byers itself— the fact that it exists, and the fact that it's so far away from the Byers' house.

We aren't given an exact location for Castle Byers, other than it's in the woods behind their house. But it's not in their backyard, that's for sure. We also get a comment about Castle Byers from Jonathan later in the season, stating that it's his hiding spot. Why would Will need a safe space and hiding spot outside of his home?

Furthermore, Castle Byers is password protected, with a big sign in the front that reads ALL FRIENDS WELCOME in big letters. Is it not hard for one to infer that Castle Byers is meant to keep something out? Something not a friend?

More from this flashback, we know that Will used to be scared often to the point of having nightmares for a week.

"Anymore" implying that he did used to get scared in the past tense. Had Will just said "I don't get scared like that." it would have a different meaning. The "anymore" is an important inclusion. Will used to be very scared of something when he was younger, but not anymore.

Flashback #2) Should I Stay or Should I Go

The second flashback mentions Lonnie more explicitly, when we hear Joyce arguing with him over the phone over not showing for visitation. Perhaps the mention of him here is meant to subconsciously tie him to the other flashbacks?

This flashback also provides heavy subtext surrounding Will's sexuality, using this line from Jonathan.

I think it’s very likely that Lonnie was abusing Will because of his sexuality. We already have confirmation that he was verbally bullying him for it from Joyce.

Flashback #3) Will the Wise

Will the Wise was introduced in the first scene of the show, but this moment shows that Will the Wise is more than just a DnD character to Will. He’s something he goes to in search of comfort.

In this moment where Will is drawing him, we see that Will seems a little somber. Drawing can be fun, but it’s also a tool that Will can use to express his emotions, both good and bad. More specifically, Will the Wise is fighting bad guys.

Could these bad guys just be referring to Troy and his gang? Or someone else?

The thing about all three of these flashbacks is that they sneakily hide their subtext behind more pertinent pieces of information.

We are introduced to Castle Byers which becomes an important set piece. We are also shown that Will has a safe space outside of his home and used to get nightmares.

We are introduced to Jonathan’s distaste of Lonnie and also given clues about Will’s sexuality.

Will’s drawing becomes a plot point later (used to discern El from Will) but we are also shown that Will’s has a persona which he uses to fight “bad guys.”

The Upside Down as Subtext

Here's the main point I wanna make that took too long to get to, the Upside Down is used to deliver subtext about Will's past abuse.

But isn't Will being actually being tormented by Vecna in the Upside Down? Well I think it's both. Yes Will is literally being hunted by Vecna, and at the same time it's metaphorical for Will's abuse by Lonnie. Some things have a dual-purpose.

We know that the Upside Down is a dark mirror of Hawkins. For most of his time there, at least from what we see, he stays in or around his home.

Will is, quite literally, in danger inside of his own home.

Here.

R-I-G-H-T H-E-R-E. Right here.

My most solid piece of evidence that backs this is this moment where Will tells Joyce "Mom, it's coming!" and the following Byers House scene we see is Lonnie pulling up to the house.

Additionally, we do not see any attempts from Will to contact Joyce while Lonnie is there, along with Lonnie hammering over the hole in the wall and taking down the lights he was using to communicate. Lonnie's presence literally silences him.

Does Joyce know?

Joyce's comments in the sheriff's office suggests that she is aware of Lonnie's homophobic bullying, I think that just like the Upside Down, the extent of Lonnie's abuse is something that she doesn't fully understand. But she does want to.

Understanding does require communication from Will. And unfortunately for Joyce—

—he's good at hiding.

Evidence from future seasons does lead me to believe that Will forgot some of these traumatic memories, although if I were looking at season one on it's own, I would say that Will is hiding his past abuse.

If anything, Will was likely hiding this abuse as it was happening.

[littledead-ridinghood]

Saying Batman hits his kids and all his other abusive tendencies only exist because people want to use them as “tropes” to woobify his children is not like…the good take you think it is

It’s important to me that you all know that. It’s not actually bad, an ‘incorrect reading of the text’ or ‘only acknowledging bad writing’ when people want to talk about how Bruce’s actions can actually severely effect those around him.

It’s also important to me that you all know that while maybe a parent hitting their adult child may not count as child abuse because the child is no longer a kid, it does; however, still count as assault, battery, and can even be considered domestic abuse if their living or staying at the manor at the time it happens and is still very, very bad and not okay

[aj-lenoire]

i do not enjoy harry potter anymore and even when i did, snape was not a character i ever liked, but for some reason my ‘for you’ page is just full of dedicated snape stan accounts and i hate it

[rexcaliburechoes]

does anyone else find it fucked up that moon's friends protect themselves from her with the skyfire at the end of moon rising?

[blusandbirds]

isaac lahey ("your father locked you in a freezer in the basement to punish you." "he didn't used to.")

"shape shifted" (teen wolf) // "cut" (catherine lacey) // "abomination" (teen wolf) // "unleashed" (teen wolf) // "motel california" (teen wolf) // "anchors" (teen wolf)

[beesbutreal]

if you wouldn't accept an autistic, disabled, or queer child, then you shouldn't fucking have kids!!!!!

[good-to-drive]

I think we should stop saying Paul was basically a woman and start saying Ringo was basically a woman, not because it's any less stupid but because it's exactly as stupid and much much funnier

[sammygender]

thinking about how one of the last things john ever tells dean is an admittance that the way he treated him was fucked. & of course this destroys dean and makes it so much harder for him to come to terms w his death right after and with his childhood in general bc he’s spent his entire life chasing after johns approval. he’s spent his entire life telling himself that the way he was treated was okay and justified and that their childhood was good because he could handle it and he was strong enough and that was how it had to be. he’s worshipped john as a hero and seen nothing wrong with any of it. because he’s had to. his entire life is built around this idea there’s nothing else. he’s his dads perfect soldier and punching bag and wife-replacement and suddenly his dads gone & he said he’s sorry and that he shouldn’t have treated dean that way. what the hell is he supposed to do now.

[generalluxun]

The fact Gabriel apparently calls Chloe his favorite victim in Penalteam makes me want to scream for many different reasons.

Oh it is ALLLL kinds of abuse and molester coded.

But remember, he just WUVS his family SO MUCH. Let's give him a statue.

[langernameohnebedeutung]

so there is this thing I've speculated over many times but I never mathed it out before so:

This tells us that Blaine was born at some point between 6/4/1980 and 5/4/1981 (I assume it's not his birthday bc I feel like he would have mentioned it but he also might not)

We also learn this:

Now this seems to slightly conflict with this -

-but I'm actually more leaning towards the first one, because Angus was actually sane then (by McDonough standards) then and it's a legal "document", while the other is a "Brother Love" doing a sermon.

Also, we can see on screen, that the will was recorded on March 4th 2012 - so minus 35 years, that actually means that she's been working for him since before Blaine was born (1977 or 1978)

Which would really mean she was there all of Blaine's life. This is also kind of supported for me by this:

Now...in present day, Blaine mostly refers to his father by his name, using words like dad or pops etc sometimes for the sake of it. But...assuming that he's actually quoting something he remembered saying at some point (which it sure sounds like in that scene), then he must have been pretty young to still have referred to his father as "daddy" - especially considering Angus' long absence and generally...low tolerance for "weakness" or sentimentality. I feel like he wouldn't have humoured that for long but that's just speculation. But my point is that Blaine would have been pretty young at that point which supports the earlier theory that Frau Bader really was there for most of his life.

The thing is, personally I always speculated that she was hired because Angus was barely home/didn't really spend time with his son and because his mother was too mentally ill/traumatised to take care of a child. but. Unless Blaine has a secret mysterious older sibling we never hear about, Bader cannot possibly have been hired as a nanny. Which kind of makes me wonder whether she was supposed to be a kind of "caretaker" for Blaine's mother before that. (Or whatever else her connection to Angus might be)

[miasmultifandomdump]

Saw a post today that said that Mikael's abuse of Klaus was understandable because nobody wants to raise a cheater's kid and I think I'm going to vomit.

[samwpmarleau]

genuinely wanting someone who hated the james tartt sr. story to explain (not putting u on the spot, others feel free to weigh in!) — in what way is showing a character has chosen to go to rehab & smiling once = redeeming that character ?

i literally feel like people complaining about sr’s “redemption arc” are watching a different show than i am…. having qualms is valid but i don’t think redemption is what anyone was going for here.

Requisite disclaimer that this is just my opinion. Others may have their own.

Putting this under a cut because it's long.

I don't think he was redeemed — in my eyes, he's way beyond redemption — but I think the show clearly wants us to view him as such. Which is an issue because there's absolutely no foundation for it. The last we saw of James, he was humiliating his son in front of the entire team and, had it not been for Beard (whom James later tried to murder, let's not forget), would have assaulted him. Since then, while we hadn't seen James, we'd heard a story of him: Jamie tells us that when he was 14, James facilitated his rape via a prostitute in a foreign country, which traumatized Jamie so badly that he doesn't even remember the encounter.

To say nothing of the other things we've learned and seen:

Throwing a boot at Jamie's head

Laying into him for having the audacity to score merely the winning assist rather than the winning goal

Constantly calling Jamie soft if he didn't dominate, thereby forcing Jamie to put up walls to protect himself

Impregnating Georgie when she was 16 (let's really hope it was a short relationship because oh wait, the age of consent in England is 16 so if they were in a relationship any earlier, James would be a statutory rapist twice over)

Abandoning her and Jamie shortly after Jamie was born

Many many more things we're not privy to

James is a piece of shit, to put it mildly. That's what they told and showed us throughout the first 33 episodes of the show. The incident at Wembley, and James in general, hadn't so much as been mentioned since it happened, not even in the episode in which they played Man City, let alone hints that James suddenly had a come-to-jesus moment.

Then we get to 3x11, and Jamie is having an identity crisis and two near-panic attacks — one of which causes him to faint — because he's spent half his life doing what he did out of anger at his father and to prove himself, and he now has to face what happens when those motivators are no longer there.

He goes to his mother for comfort and advice, which she gives to him, and it's great advice! She tells him that he's an amazing person, that his worth isn't derived from his father, and that James isn't going to change so Jamie shouldn't be torturing himself with hope. All of that coincides with everything we'd seen up until then, and is headed for a sad but important message: sometimes people don't change. Sometimes people won't love you or give you their approval. Sometimes you do need to cut ties with someone, even if that someone is your parent. It's okay to not forgive them or come to a nice rosy conclusion with them, and that you can move on without doing so.

And what does the show do? It has Ted — Ted who is projecting like hell, Ted who thinks every parental situation is the same, Ted who has absolutely no business butting in on something like this, Ted who has already given Jamie shitty advice before — telling him to "just forgive him." Which not only sets Jamie up for falling right back into James's abusive cycle but completely obliterates what Jamie's mother said. Instead of her experience and relevance leading to good advice, the show tells us she was wrong and heartless, that Ted is the one to listen to. Additionally, it tells us that Jamie can't be his best self unless he forgives and reconnects with James.

(Ted also frames this as Jamie letting go of his anger. Which is a rather strange thing to be a lightbulb moment for Jamie, considering that wasn't his problem. He himself said earlier in the episode that he feels so lost because he doesn't have that anger — he has indifference. Jamie didn't need a releasing of anger or forgiveness for his dad, he just needed clarity and guidance.)

Then, it shows us James in rehab. To which I say: since fucking when??? What had we seen or heard from James that would ever indicate he'd go to rehab? Worse, it shows us James nearly crying with pride and love for Jamie (oh, can't forget Denbo and Bug either and their "His dad would've been proud" nonsense). Since fucking when??? James has NEVER shown pride or love for Jamie. Jamie has only ever been a source of clout for him. FFS, he gleefully cheered against him at Wembley!

To say nothing of the fact that James's alcoholism was a symptom, not the disease. Alcoholism doesn't make you the sort of person to do all of the horrific things James did. It may have made things worse, but it didn't cause him to do them and getting clean doesn't magically make him into a good person as the show implies.

All of which I still would've hated but could have probably accepted, were it not for the text. Fine, have Jamie forgive him (ugh). Fine, have James in rehab (maybe I'll pretend it was court-mandated).

But then they have Jamie — Jamie who doesn't even know James is in rehab, the last memory he has is of 2x08 — actually reconnect. They even show that he's deleted the quotes he used to have around James's name in his phone. Jamie says it's "been awhile," that he hopes he's okay, and smiles after sending it. The implication being that he and James will reconcile and perpetuate the bullshit that family is family no matter how abusive they are and you can't not keep ties. What the fuck. Jamie should not have to do that, and the SHOW certainly should not present that message.

It's harmful, repulsive, puts Jamie in harm's way, and I really fucking hate it.

[holedyke]

of course the night i need to get to bed at a reasonable hour bc i have a early rise is ruined by my own brain working me up into a complete meltdown 😵‍💫 i am a prisoner to myselfffff