#ITS A ROMCOM PIRATE SHOW

[aha-my-villainous-thoughts]

We're not normal. Huh.

[bookofmac]

Deadloch is to Crime Noir as Scream is to Slashers

[boysnberriespie]

Sorry I’m trying not to be too bitter about this, I’m trying to just move on with my life, eventually make more Izzy art once I’m not just fucking annoyed, but if you don’t wanna hear it block the tag “pirate bitching”

(I just don’t want my posts to show up anywhere in the main tags because please leave me alone if you’re mean lol)

“This opinion is because you’re looking too close and thinking too hard about it it’s a romcom” MAN y’all were plate of corning this show to hell and back for a YEAR and a half 😭to the point that I know people who absolutely hate this show, never watched it, but still know a shit ton about it cuz people never shut the hell up, be consistent 😩

[nortism]

What the Ghosts have been watching on TV

Everyone

Channel 4 Home renovation shows: They're free with ads and there's an infinite amount of them so Alison puts them on for the whole gang when she and Mike have work to do in same way people put on YouTube videos for their dogs. This has backfired slightly as all the ghosts now have very strong and conflicting opinions on how Button House should be renovated.

The Great British Bake-off: A whole family event, they all get very invested. Kitty thinks Alison Hammond is the funniest person in the world. The Captain feels normal about Noel Fielding. As well as a watching it live, I'm sure they've also watched the whole back catalogue together.

Mama Mia: This where the Captain learnt his ABBA songs from. Pat and Julian enjoy the nostalgic music and I think the others are just bewitched by the story and music

Robin

Anything David Attenborough: For obvious reasons. I think he'd get a kick out of trying to do his voice. The others sometimes join in.

Cunk on Earth/ Britain: I think they've got a similar attitude towards history and I think he'd find serious historians trying to answer silly questions incredibly funny

Horrible Histories: He watches this with Kitty, they both find poop jokes funny.

Humphrey

Antiques Roadshow: I'm not sure why. I honestly think he's just glad to watch anything.

Mary

Gardener's World: I think she misses being able to look after plants and I think she'd be endlessly fascinated by how hosepipes work.

Mio Mao: She loves them fucking plasticine cats. She will not stop singing the theme song

Honestly think she'll watch anything with anyone and would get invested, she seems like the ideal person to watch telly with.

Kitty

Ru Paul's Drag Race: I think they all watch this every so often but Kitty is invested. There's bright colours, fun outfits and drama, it's definitely Alison's go to when she needs Kitty distracted.

90s and 2000s romcoms: I believe that every couple of weeks Alison and Kitty have a "girl's night" where they watch all the romcoms that Alison used to watch with her mum, mostly because I love watching romcoms with my mum and Kitty deserves that. Kitty is particularly fond of Twilight.

Thomas:

Any Jane Austen adaptations: He watches them with Fanny as they were both big fans when they were alive (its the only thing they agree on). Kitty also joins sometimes. His favourite is the 1995 Pride and Prejudice tv show.

Fanny:

Grey's Anatomy: I haven't seen it but my mum's a big fan and there's millions of seasons, I think she'd pretend she's not that into it but she definitely is.

Call the Midwife: Same as above.

The Captain:

M*A*S*H: I've seen about half an episode of this but it seems to be about fit young men in a war so it sounds like his thing. Probably Pat's recommendation.

Our Flag Means Death: I think Alison has been trying to sneakily show Cap gay media under the pretence of saying "it's just a fun show about pirates". I think the whole gang watched it together. The Captain definitely didn't cry at the end of season 1 why would think that?

Pat

Taskmaster: I think this is one they all watch together but it's definitely one of Pat's favourites. He probably attempted to set up his own version of the show with the ghost which ended horribly.

Doctor Who: I think he watched the original run when he was alive and was absolutely ecstatic to find out they made more. Julian makes fun of him for it.

Julian

Have I Got News For You: Has been airing since 1990 so he definitely watched it while he was alive. I think he likes to keep up with current politics but not in a very serious way so this is his middle ground.

Succession: I haven't seen this show but it seems to be about horrible men in suits being horrible to each other which seems right up his alley.

The Thick of It: Speaking of horrible men in suits being horrible. I think he watches this with Robin who has absolutely no idea what's going on but just laughs when Julian does and they have the best time. Julian is constantly pausing to add his own anecdotes

What We Do In The Shadows: Alison put this on as a 'let's show the Captain it's ok to be gay' show and the Captain was immediately horrified so Julian adopted it. He identifies with Lazlo.

[ofmd-renewed-yet]

I feel so vindicated that the fans who complained season 1 was "historically inaccurate" are now watching the season where a historical figure who wasn't even alive during the time period the show takes place is a character. Like- a main character wears crocs from the start, and you thought it was trying to be accurate..? Dude it's pirate fanfiction there's the emotionally incompetent romcom leads and here's some popcorn

exactlyyyy like please just embrace the romcom silliness, its so fun to just take the show and story for what it is rather than getting caught up in the accuracy of the details

[avelera]

I admittedly haven’t seen much OFMD S2 criticism but I did masochistically go looking to see what the major complaints were.

I’m not all that interested in addressing individual critiques. Some of them made sense to me. Some of them were a bit silly. Some were clearly based on the show not being the fanfic people had written in their heads after they watched S1. Some were mad for the inevitable shipping reasons.

But what I think is the most important thing for OFMD fans and fans of any ongoing story to remember is this:

The sequel will never be able to match the fact you watched the first part without preconceived expectations.

No second season of OFMD could ever match the fact that no one was expecting Season 1. They weren’t expecting the kiss. They can’t recapture the uncertainty and euphoria of that relationship becoming canon. They can’t recreate the audience discovering its unique mix of Muppet humor and heartfelt drama with glancing moments of historical accuracy, all awash in stageplay level special effects as a love letter to old-school pirate plays and musicals. You can’t ever experience that again for the first time.

If these two seasons had aired back to back, far from seeing a decrease in quality or change in tone, I think you’d find they match one another very closely and seamlessly throughout. It was only the long break that allowed people to imagine certain story beats or characterizations or threads like historical accuracy as being more important than they were.

If Season 1 had ended, say, with the, “Never left.” beat while “The Chain” played as the last thing we saw before the credits rolled and the wait for S2 began, the fandom landscape and expectations would have been wildly different. But then, every OFMD episode adds wildly new elements, they’re all very different from each other, and anyone who thought any one those elements would be the new constant tone of the show going forward would be wrong. And yet, that’s what happened inevitably after the last episode of S1.

Honestly, I thought it was a bit of a shame, from a fanfic writer perspective only, that S1 ended on such a dark note because it was so out of keeping with 90% of the rest of the show but inevitably, I knew the fandom and fan writers would latch onto that dark thread in an effort to continue the story, since it’s where S1 left off. But OFMD was always going to resolve that separation quickly then return to humor and hijinks (albeit with notes of drama and more serious emotions, as it always has) , it’s right there in the romcom plot structure, a structure which owes much more to OFMD’s DNA than any historical pirate drama.

*Sigh* Anyway, I’m excited for the season finale. And truly I haven’t seen much criticism, but I’ve been chewing on these thoughts since I woke up to critiques of ep 6-7 last week and was then baffled by it once I saw the episodes myself. So there it is.

[ladyluscinia]

Ugh I'm still thinking about that damn tweet so...

2x08 Reaction #6

Ok, so this is not a screed against people posting about or hoping for Izzy's return - whether in joking denial or genuine belief. Like if that's what makes you feel better after the finale, you are entitled to all the posts, fix-it fics, etc.

But.

I really want to push back on this idea that it's this obvious thing canon is supporting.

This is not another Lucius situation. Like. It's just not.

Look, when Lucius was "killed" at the end of S1, it was a joke everyone was in on. He got tossed over the side of the ship with a little "fwoop" and a literal shoe spinning in the air. His "offscreen death" was confirmed by a guy who could not have known what happened after he fell. Of course he was alive.

Lucius's fake-out was so successful because it engaged with the genre of the show in a way that rewarded the audience for buying into the suspension of disbelief.

Izzy's death... doesn't.

Izzy dies from a stray bullet in a shot that you might miss on first watch. He's not doing anything important, or protecting anyone. It's random. They reveal he's injured and then make it back to the ship, only for him to give a dramatic deathbed speech. He dies on screen, and they immediately cut to his funeral.

This isn't the kind of death that fits with OFMD's universe. They tried to borrow a scene from Black Sails or something and just sanded down its edges. Killing a character in the main cast just because "it's a pirate show"? Really? The daring escape plan is real and dangerous and life-threatening in the same episode where Auntie survives an explosion, and we watched Zheng and Edward casually massacre their way through a dozen soldiers each?

I'm buying into the suspension of disbelief that our ragtag crew can escape scott-free because it's a silly romcom about a muppet guy where "things always have a way of working out in the end", and then the show looks me dead in the eye and says "Actually, no, this time the consequences are real. Sorry."

A bird landing on a grave doesn't change that?

Like... in Pirates of the Caribbean they can resurrect Barbossa from the dead like it's nothing because some of the first worldbuilding elements they introduce are a compass that points at what you most desire and gold that curses you into an undead existence. Of course necromancy exists.

OFMD had a guy turn into a seagull behind a tree for plausible deniability, a cursed coat rationalized as a peanut allergy, and the gravy basket which took place wholly in Edward's head. Resurrection would be a hell of a reach. Even if they did open S3 with it, it would be a retcon of Izzy's death, not a reveal that we all could have predicted.

Which does mean that pointing to vague tweets from the crew or likes of Witch!Buttons posts and pushing the idea "Look - they're telling us he'll be back!" leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Like... it's not set up as an inside joke this time. And especially if they don't get renewed - and they certainly seem worried - they should not get credited for leaving this particular beat "open" and just being thwarted by MAX or whatever.

Izzy dying right then, as shown on screen, was unambiguously their final beat.

[cobra-creampuff]

@fanficfanattic you will regret this

okay so. it wouldn't be the revenge specifically because that is its own story and i think the whole general Thing is really dependent on the characters in it (as it should be! most of the time) and the shameless characters really don't mesh well with it (as it also should be! most of the time). HOWEVER. if the characters of shameless were put into a plot/setting framework of a golden age pirate romcom with a defining theme of self actualization especially regarding gender expression and/or trauma recovery...

the milkoviches would be the ranking crew on one ship, with terry as the captain. the gallaghers are also the ranking crew on their ship, and frank is the captain. very early on in "canon" or perhaps pre-"canon" they mutiny and elect fiona as captain instead. kev and vee own a bar at a pirate port. i wouldn't pick nassau because like. that is reserved for real life and black sails. to me. maybe tortuga or maybe port royal. anyway one day the bar was owned by some guy. the next day the bar was owned by kev and vee. nobody knows how that happened. every "episode" the bar features in there is a new version given. none are ever confirmed.

i like the families knowing each other/having close enough experiences that a main relationship conflict with any of them is each not understanding that their circumstances are actually not the same (i.e. how ian can't quite grasp that being gay is a much bigger deal for mickey than it is for him; they live in the same town, they went to the same school, they're in the same tax bracket, they both have a shitty dad who hates them personally and no mom, ian was in the closet too, etc, so there's kind of this disconnect there where i think ian expects mickey's experiences of homophobia to be at least similar enough to his that it shouldn't make that much of a difference - but of course there is actually a huge gulf between a shitty dad who hates you because you were conceived through infidelity and shows it by insulting you but mostly is absent anyway and a shitty dad who is. a fucking neo nazi and organized crime boss who regularly beats you blue. and i think the same is true for other members of each family, like how fiona judged mandy, and i guess in later seasons i didn't watch [insert gallagher] says some kind of something implying gallaghers are better than milkoviches and mickey points out if that's true it's only true by an insignificant margin. not that any of that was ever textually explored because the writers weren't actually interested in exploring anything. who said that).

and also! i always love a character or characters that are famous, or infamous as the case may be, in-universe. EveryoneTM knows who the milkoviches are. EveryoneTM knows who the gallaghers are. and they each have a distinct reputation that comes with their name. and! i also like the knowing Of each other for a long time before getting to Know each other dynamic that the canonical milkovich and gallagher kids have via having gone to school together and buying (or bullying) goods and services from each other. love childhood Ugh This Guy Again to lovers waaaaayy more than childhood friends to lovers. personally. not to mention the capulet and montague vibe.

anyway so i'd want to preserve that as much as possible. so idk maybe frank and terry used to be whalers for the same company or even on the same ship, and the kids lived in an isolated island whalers' families ghetto (which would also preserve frank's and terry's frequent long absences). wait wait yes. okay. here it is i've got it.

they are employed/indebted to the same company but actually work on different ships, and they generally dislike each other because they are both supremely dislikeable, but there are limited socializing opportunities in a whaling community so they are extremely bitter frenemies because it's either that or nothing. and obviously they hate whaling because who doesn't, but terry hates it out of anger toward the company (reasonable) and frank hates it out of laziness (also reasonable tbh). anyway so at some point they start talking about mutinying and going pirate, and frank thinks they're talking shit but terry's serious. and terry's also scary and frank's a coward, so alright looks like he's going to mutiny and go pirate because he said he was going to and terry said yes he sure was.

so terry starts (drunkenly) strategizing, and his strategy is the very peak of violence. and frank is not exactly a paragon of compassion, but violence is pretty high risk and you know once you kill a guy you can never get a loan from him again. and maybe a little tiny itsy bitsy weensy ickle part of frank just doesn't want to do murder because it's murder. so for once in his pathetic little loser life he puts up a fight, kind of, and argues with terry that all that isn't necessary and it's possible to unlawfully secure a ship through other means. and he actually manages to not back down about it until terry gets too annoyed to keep the discussion going, and because he's already piss sloshed and frank is the only man he's spoken to outside of work in like twenty years, terry doesn't kick the shit out of him for being an annoying pansy or whatever and instead makes a bet with him that terry will get a ship his way and frank's way will fail. they obviously don't have any fucking money or literally anything the fuck else because they are fucking whalers, and anyway it's more to their style to bet years of service on the other's ship instead. so if frank fails to take over his ship, he and his family will be indebted to terry instead. and if terry fails to take over his ship (or doesn't have enough survivors left to sail it back), he and his family will be indebted to frank.

unfortunately, they both successfully mutiny and take control of their respective ships, so the wager is void. frank doesn't press the issue for real but he constantly bitches and moans that technically he didn't lose so terry owes him. terry makes it Well Known that if he ever runs into frank off neutral grounds and not on a job he will kill him extremely dead since, you know, technically he didn't lose so frank owes him.

anyway fast forward. the milkoviches and the gallaghers both become Big Name pirates. they make port at the same place and frequent the same bar and do business with each other, but they are ENEMIES. (i think i like port royal for this, because it was not quite as definitively a pirate port for a lot of the age, so it's more believable for the bar to be neutral ground that terry would actually honor since offending the colonials that also hang out there would ruin it for everyone - and most importantly would fuck up his business in addition to putting a black mark on his reputation.)

okay so. positions. terry is the captain. they don't have a quartermaster at all because terry is a tyrant and won't allow it. mickey is the closest they've got, as the only one who is brave, angry, and informed on everything enough to occasionally challenge terry. don't get it twisted, it's definitely not often. the general rule of the ship is that everyone is subservient to terry and nobody looks out for each other in a way that might get in terry's way. but just. every now and then, mickey will make a fuss about something or redirect terry's anger (sometimes he ends up as a whipping boy in the latter case, but never intentionally. yet! ☝️). mandy is also brave and angry enough to challenge terry, and she does sometimes, but she's at an extra disadvantage because she is not informed or (pseudo-)respected like mickey is. yet.

his official position is bosun, but really mickey is a jack of all trades. he does a little bit of everything, and is the understood second in command despite terry not allowing for a real quartermaster or first mate. mickey keeps the inventory, ensures that everyone gets their correct percentage of rations and loot shares, assigns whatever duties terry couldn't be assed to, and carries out discipline for whatever offenses terry doesn't take personally (sometimes obeying terry's orders including the method/severity of the punishment, sometimes punishing someone terry said to but didn't give specifics on how so mickey can decide that for himself, and sometimes completely of his own volition; usually the latter is either for neglecting a duty, endangering one of the milkoviches in some way, or of course something mickey took personally lol). (compare to izzy hands)

iggy is the navigator/pilot, has good control of the boat, can read currents, winds, and stars, but mickey reads the maps. he's happy with this position and is one of only two brothers who never enter into the power struggle. he likes sailing, he likes the frequent semi-solitude, and he likes not having to be involved in on-ship discipline or in making any hard choices. (compare to fang)

in what i watched the other brothers really didn't have much personality so idk about them, but they each have some level of rank/leadership over the non-milkovich crew members. one is in charge of commanding the gunners, one is in charge of commanding raiders, etc. mickey will give them a general "this is what terry wants" guideline and mostly leave them to it unless what terry wants is something particularly (and needlessly) dangerous, in which case he does his best to give them more specific orders that will hopefully lose less crew without them getting pissed off he's stepping on their toes, which would of course make them make the situation worse out of spite/power display.

mandy is the cook/surgeon when terry is around, but she's a strategist and raid leader when mickey's in charge (compare to roach) - which happens because the milkoviches have a fleet, mostly just due to their reputation and the fact less established pirates and sometimes merchants will surrender once the flag goes up and bargain to be annexed into terry's command rather than slaughtered (which works maybe. 30% of the time), and terry is so power hungry and paranoid that he can't stand to let any of the other captains in the fleet actually captain one of his ships for too long at a time. he's always going from ship to ship just to undermine his captains and exert his own power over each crew, leaving mickey to head the flagship.

mickey ends up with all the responsibilities of a captain but not much respect; everyone knows he's not the real dad boss and he has to fight for every single order he gives. the real reason(s) he's the understood second in command is because 1: nobody else wants to be that close to terry (again, compare to izzy hands lol) and 2: none of his brothers are as (realistically) ambitious as he is (they want power but aren't aware of or willing to put in the work to gain/maintain it + they don't jump on opportunities as fast, etc). so nobody ever calls mickey 'captain' or 'sir' or anything else that denotes or implies a higher rank, both to keep him cut down and out of superstition that terry will somehow Know and take offense to anyone except him being given even that much authority.

and of course all of the milkoviches including mandy are general enforcers of the milkovich rule on the flagship. they all participate in mutiny-busting, routine intimidation, etc. and they all give unofficial punishments for insults or just for pissing them off. manny, who i assumed is an uncle and have no interest in being corrected on if i'm wrong, is a fence.

sveta (and yevgeny) would be included Later as a prostitute working at a brothel near port, with the same general Circumstances of Meeting mickey (and ian) as in canon, marrying mickey for financial/social status reasons while he's forced (which i kind of assume is the canonical situation since she seemed genuinely happy on their wedding day), and then the same plotline of mickey having a problem with her madame but instead of the madame turning all the girls out she gets killed by definitely mickey for sure ("i kill, you take credit." "why the fuck would you not want credit?" "don't want precedent you kill boss get promotion when i will be boss." "..." "you should be happy, this give me good reason to not kill you." "...jesus, you fit right in with this fucking family.") and svet buys the brothel property under mickey's name (since she can't legally own it herself) and becomes the new madame while he keeps pirating, so now he (and mandy) has somewhere to go separate from other milkoviches while at port where he can actually fucking relax for once in his fucking life. & ig if you really want sandy to be here she can be a fence too, but tbh if i ever do write anything in this fandom again i have no intention to include her or any other characters introduced past season four :)

on the gallagher ship frank is captain for a while, at least in name. he is usually both drunk and seasick in addition to his natural laziness and inability to work with others, so a lot of the time he doesn't even try to captain and lets fiona handle it without interference. every now and then he gets some kinda fucking bug up his ass and goes banging on about his rightful authority or whatever and sends them on some deeply stupid and pointless farce and/or will say they're doing something and then give orders that absolutely will not accomplish that thing. for a while, the gallaghers follow along with this, then they start just not obeying him/quietly belaying his orders to other crew, then they start telling him directly they're not going to do what he wants, then actively preventing him from giving orders in the first place (usually fiona locks him up, or lip knocks him out, and debbie got to knock him out once too, but if it ends up being left to ian he'll do something more creative and lowkey humiliating like shoving a gun rag into frank's mouth or dunking his head in the pickle barrel), and then finally they officially commit mutiny and kick him off the ship entirely.

the gallagher ship doesn't include any extended family. no aunt ginger, no uncle clayton, no whoever the fuck else was in there. their non-gallagher crew is all the mentioned neighbors and etc that they're friendly with in canon, minus kev and vee.

fiona is captain, lip is quartermaster, ian is navigator and he likes to correct and expand maps and has big dreams of going straight (ha ha) and becoming a chartered cartographer/expedition leader. lip and ian also lead raids. carl is the master gunner. debbie is officially bosun but has a pretty in between job. she assigns shifts and chores and supervises and all that, but she doesn't ever handle discipline, and she also does the more i guess administrative is the best way to put it quartermaster duties that lip is too bored by to do. she also is always on the up with the rumors and can typically be relied on to know who's who and where they are (*mickey mouse meme* this is a tool that will help us later).

liam is the surgeon. several non-gallagher crew members think he's a witch because he is way ahead of his time wrt medicine (simply because he treats based on evidence lol) and because he so very rarely talks. he has no strong opinion on this perception as it usually doesn't interfere with his ability to do his job and often keeps strangers from approaching him uninvited (the boy. is autismal. and also has selective mutism. which really should be called something else by now but i digress).

ian knows all the myths and legends, though he doesn't really believe any of them, and frequently regales the crew with them. lip doesn't really like the stories because he suffers from a whimsy deficiency, but when he has the patience for it he'll back ian up on the lute (Later, mickey will play for ian too, or sometimes for his girls to sing/dance to).

so the milkoviches and the gallaghers both use port royal as their port of call, and they both spend a lot of time in kev and vee's bar. kev and vee are personal friends with the gallaghers, but as said their bar is neutral ground so they keep civil relationships with literally anyone who abides by that neutrality, including the milkoviches, other pirates, merchants, fishers, pirate hunters, naval officers, natives, colonials, anyone as long as they pay their tab and don't cause trouble.

sheila and karen are merchant class but seem like gentry to ex-whalers, especially since actual gentry nearly never deign to go somewhere so close to the docks, and even tho technically after a while being quite successful pirates they are richer in terms of material wealth (but still not in social wealth). karen loves to come to the bar whenever she hears pirates are in town. she loves the thrill of the baddest boy a bad boy can be (and also the thrill of bad girls who are proud about it), and she loves the attention she can get when she dresses up in something classy just to go slum it with a bunch of society-fringe sailors. lip is her favorite, sure, but he gets it in his head that she's his shore wife or whatever and that she'll eventually tearfully beg him to retire and stay on land with her (extremely loud buzzer noise).

jimmysteve is a fence. and a drug runner. and a semi-pro snitch. he (in some ways, much like frank) thinks he is much cleverer than he really is and that he can play multiple sides at whim. he gets himself in trouble with the pirates for breaking neutrality, and gets himself in trouble with more than one royal navy for thinking he could snitch but only when he felt like it lmao. he somehow always manages to weasel his way out of trouble and back into good graces (again, much like frank, except frank gets his hundredth chances through pity or trickery and jimmysteve mostly just uses daddy's name and plantation money).

kash and linda are also merchant class and have a little curio shop and bakery. ian likes to do basically the opposite of karen and 'sneak' away from the lowbrow area of town that caters to sailors to shock and impress all the not-poors with how Just Like Them he is, which is how they meet and start hooking up.

but of course it IS a romcom about self actualization and. you know. comedic romance. so the Main Plot is actually just gallavich and not as much of an ensemble here.

the Plot in question happens because mandy gets sick of shit and decides she wants to just fuck off. she just has to figure out where to fucking go instead. she doesn't want to just run away. she doesn't want to be alone. the gallaghers just kind of seem like the only real choice. she knows them by reputation to be damn good pirates but as kind and generous as pirates can reasonably be. they don't torture, they don't rape, they don't hurt young kids or pregnant people, they don't kill unnecessarily (and yet all of them are still alive, so like. for Real they must be fucking good pirates), etc. she figures if she seduces one of them on the last night of their leave, they'll take her back to their ship to fuck her and then in the morning the chaos of making way will make them forget to make sure she disembarks.

she picks ian because fiona is busy with jimmysteve, lip is busy with karen, and the other three are too young for her. and also. she thinks ian is cute, and she's seen him act like a whole gentleman with her own eyes more than once. she like. actually kind of wants him. and he's sitting alone. so she goes over. at first he seems into it. he's not intimidated by her even though she knows he knows who she is. he listens to her when she talks and has relevant things to say. he's funny. he's charming. he doesn't treat her like a whore. it takes like half an hour before mandy's goal has changed from "seduce him to get onto his ship" to "fuck him so much forever and maybe have an epic romance or something". but of course when she starts really putting the moves on, he just flat out rejects her. he does it gently, but still. just a straight-up full-stop no.

so then. mandy's plan changes to "get mickey pissed off enough at this guy that he ends the stalemate and kills his whole family and then convince him to give the damn ship to her". and well, the best way to do that is to make mickey think ian hurt her (which also will later provide them all an excuse to give terry as to why they blew up his legendary status's structural support rivalry from his backstory - they started it).

so she makes a scene in the bar, and she uses some very skillful body work to make ian look like he's aggressing her - which only works on him despite him also being very skilled in that area and usually very tactically observant because he's unnerved to have been hit on so boldly by a woman.

as it happens, at least two of her brothers (notably NOT mickey himself) are in the bar when she does this, and she kind of thought that would be enough to at least start a fight if not the war she's planning to work them up to. but. they don't really do anything. maybe they cuss at ian or throw something at him or whatever to warn him off or let him know it's time to leave if he knows what's good for him, but like. they don't even get up. so now mandy is humiliated from being rejected by ian AND humiliated to have made a scene, to have publicly positioned herself as a victim, and nobody caring enough to put down their fucking grog.

so now she really doesn't know what to do. she's upset, she's embarrassed, she doesn't want to go back to her own ship almost doubly as much as when she sat down at ian's table. in the end, mandy makes it onto the gallagher ship regardless, by stowing away. she does recognize that it's their ship when she carefully tucks herself away in the farthest corner of the hold, but really... where else could she go? on any other ship she'll be treated even worse than on her own, at least in a day-to-day sense, and that's only if she manages to convince someone else to take a woman crew member in the first place. and if she's caught as a stowaway, which she inevitably will, any other crew would put her to death. when she's caught on the gallagher ship they might whip her and put her in the brig, but they won't hang her or toss her overboard, and she thinks she can probably plead her case to them given enough time. she'll just have to try to stay hidden until they're well out to sea to buy that time in distance back to port.

the only problem with this is that terry is off on another ship just now, and mickey is in charge-ish. and unlike terry, or even like some of the other brothers, mickey 1: notices when mandy doesn't board and 2: cares. he makes them wait for her, getting increasingly pissed off until he seems almost as scary as terry, until finally one of the brothers who was there steps forward to fearfully admit he saw ian gallagher mess with her.

first, mickey punishes that guy. he gives up the other brother who was there pretty easily, so mickey punishes that one too. they are both expecting a terry-level It's Personal punishment - everyone knows mandy is mickey's favorite - but it's not even quiiiiiite on the level of a mickey-level It's Personal punishment. he's not holding back on purpose, and he absolutely is taking this so fucking personally, but. they're family too. he wouldn't torture them unless they tortured him first. or made too credible of a threat that they were going to.

anyway, when that's done mickey immediately assumes ian has kidnapped mandy and is certainly forcing himself on her at this very moment, or else he murdered her for bruising his ego last night and mutilated her body so no one would know to tell mickey someone needed to be return-killed. so uh. well. mickey is officially pissed off enough that he orders the ship off course to hunt down and kill ian's whole family. and for once he's not contested on it, even though it's against terry's preceding orders, because first of all. he is so so evil right now and no one wants to breathe too loudly at him, let alone argue. and also secondly... mandy's family. none of them would want her dead unless she killed them first.

so the milkovich flagship hunts down the gallaghers, and they make no secret of it. terry catches wind, but the teller includes mandy's presumed fate at ian's hands, so he's pissed at being disobeyed and double pissed at mickey for daring to take initiative, but he approves of the reasoning enough that he decides not to catch up with them and crush them back underneath his thumb until after they've razed every last gallagher from the earth. insert atla book one style imminent redemption arc anti-villain misadventures here (perhaps even complete with manny purposely giving mick bad intel to keep him sailing around in circles lmfao).

meanwhile. mandy gets caught as a stowaway. luckily, it's ian who finds her. like in canon, he impulsively confesses that he's gay - or whatever euphemism or obsolete term they were using for that back then - and asks her to pretty please call her brothers off. mandy, having been hiding in the bowels of a ship at sea in the 18th century, had no idea that her brothers were on. whoops! together, she and ian explain a severely abridged version of what happened to fiona and convince her to let the milkovich flagship catch up to them. mandy swears up and down that her brothers won't sink the ship while she's on it, and she can convince mickey to board so she can explain before leaving the gallaghers without her presence's protection. (fiona had never had any personal beef with any of the milkoviches, beyond just thinking poorly of them as people as a whole and having a particular distaste for many of terry's best known atrocities, but now mandy is definitely on her shit list and mickey is on the thinnest of thin ice.)

so the milkoviches catch up to the gallaghers. they do some damage to the ship before they notice mandy on deck, but it's just warning shots anyway. they had every intention of exploding them into a billion pieces, but a warning shot is just the proper thing - even if you've got no plans to accept a surrender or give any time for return fire before you obliterate them into viscera and sawdust. but then it turns out mandy is right, and mickey orders an immediate (slightly panicked) ceasefire, and thoughtlessly boards when mandy asks him to even though that's objectively tactically very stupid.

as privately agreed, mandy tells mickey it was a misunderstanding. that ian hadn't actually menaced her. he'd just been clumsy with his words and actions and she'd taken offense, but he'd apologized and then she perfectly willingly went back to his berth with him where they spent the whole night thoroughly and consensually enjoying each other's company. they simply slept through the morning bells, and by the time they did wake up it would have been such a horrible inconvenience to take mandy back to port, and she'd figured mickey would have left without her by then anyway. she didn't realize it would cause such a hubub, and btw she and ian are courting now.

mickey is pissed obviously - not least because now he's going to have to face biblically apocalyptic wrath from terry - but mandy is really really his favorite, and he's relieved she's okay, and maybe he's a little bit relieved he doesn't actually have to vaporize like twenty people too but that is for absolutely fucking nobody to know up to and including mickey himself fuck you very much. so all she gets is the milkovich pirate captain version of Go To Your Room Right Now Young Lady. she is unconcerned, and offers her hand to ian so he can make a small production of gallantly kissing the back of it before she goes over the gangway.

mickey stays just long enough to give ian the milkovich pirate captain version of a shovel talk, which involves a lot of disturbing kraken imagery (it's kind of homoerotic too, but surely that doesn't mean anything haha. unless...). for some totally unknowable fucking reason, ian seems to be entertained by mickey's uh. way with words, more than he is threatened. at the end of mickey's speech he's even smiling. he offers a reasonably chilling rejoinder, and then fucking bows like he's some kind of bougie rich fuck seeing a guest out of his big bougie fucking house. fucking... dickhead. fuck.

anyway so yeah. it's so over for mickey. cooked! and soon to be stuffed and basted ;)

[queerly-autistic]

I just submitted my feedback to Apple TV and Amazon Prime, and am happy for people to use what I wrote as framework for their own if it's helpful. I tried to hit a number of talking points, which might be useful if coming up with your own:

third season 'and beyond' (as David specifically said)

representation and diversity

the show's success by a number of metrics

large passionate fanbase (and examples of this)

personalising it for the streamer in question (why OFMD would fit well on that platform specifically)

international appeal (specifically highlighting that I'm from the UK)

Here's what I submitted:

Apple TV Support Form I'd like Apple TV to consider picking up Our Flag Means Death, which is currently looking for a new home for its third season and beyond. It's not only fabulously diverse, with important queer representation that any network would be proud of, but it's also critically acclaimed - twice GLAAD nominated -, was consistently the top show on HBO Max, and has a large passionate fanbase willing to follow wherever it goes (nearing 75,000 on a petition to renew the show; £10,000 raised in forty minutes to fund a billboard in Times Square). Apple's shows are given space to breathe and truly inhabit their unique identities, such as the wonderful Ted Lasso, and I think this heartfelt queer pirate romcom would fit in perfectly. As a UK customer, I would subscribe to Apple TV if you picked up this show.

(note: there is a character limit here, which my message only just managed to fit in) Amazon Prime Feedback Form: I'd like Amazon to consider picking up hit show Our Flag Means Death, which is currently looking for a new home for its third season and beyond. The show is not only fabulously diverse, with important queer representation that any network would be proud of, but it is also critically acclaimed - two times GLAAD nominated -, was consistently the top show on HBO Max's streaming service, and has a large passionate fanbase willing to follow wherever it goes (nearing 75,000 on a petition to renew the show; £10,000 raised in forty minutes to fund a billboard in Times Square). Amazon Prime has recently displayed a real commitment to queer representation, with beloved titles such as Good Omens and Red, White and Royal Blue not only having massive success but being given the space and support by Prime to develop their own unique creative voice, and I think this heartfelt queer pirate romcom would fit in perfectly amongst Prime's other titles. The show is also highly merchandisable, and many fans would jump at the chance to purchase any Our Flag Means Death related merchandise (as I have previously done with Good Omens). The show also has international appeal: as a customer in the UK, I would also absolutely invest in a higher tier of subscription to support Prime should you pick up Our Flag Means Death, and know many people across the US, Australia and Europe who would do the same. Thank you for your time, and I hope you will consider picking up this incredible show for its third season and beyond.

I hope that this is helpful! Let's all go get our damned men back!

[vampirejuno]

Accidentally getting obsessed with an actor and then their filmography is just

- dumbest romcom you've ever seen (1963)

- underrated cult film

- not available on any streaming services or pirate websites

- 9% on rotten tomatoes (×15)

- actually decent film but they appear for 0.3 seconds in the background in the second act and that's it

- us military propaganda

- godawful film but your guy wears Really tight jeans and has a shirtless + covered in blood scene

- thriller with every trigger you have blacklisted (you watch it anyway)

- Amazing Film That Started This Shitshow

- 2 mins of screentime in a marvel movie

- copaganda (8.9/10 on IMDb)

- objectively not that good but you keep rewatching it because it hits the spot just right and its potential is so compelling and nobody else Gets It okay

- Amazing Film That Started This Shitshow 2: The Sequel That Sucks Ass

- not available in your region

- the one you're gonna show your parents

- great film but at this point your guy is in his 80s and even I'm not that strong

[annebonnydyke]

"noooooo you cant compare black sails and our flag means death theyre two completely different shows" sure but black sails is better like objectivley, its a technically narratively artistically better show. black sails could do silly pirate romcom easily but i would pay good money to see genuine insightful commentary from our flag means death.

[londonspirit]

Imagining what could have happened if the creator dared to dream bigger is fandom’s driving ethos. Whether or not the people behind the scenes expected to have the most passionate bloc of their audience fixate on a queer romance that may or may not have been intentional is irrelevant. When queerness is still on the periphery of society, it’s unsurprising that the relationships fans obsess over and seek to actualize are predominantly queer.

Our Flag Means Death, whose second season is now airing on Max, doesn’t require its fans to dream of the queer possibilities. Instead, it’s that rare breed of work that raises the romantic subtext—typically buried under bromatic jokes or subtle ambiguity—to undeniable text from the very beginning. And when fandoms and creative teams are both on the same page of the same unabashedly queer love story, as is the case for Our Flag, the experience is nothing short of sublime.

Queer media, particularly TV, has entered something of a golden age since the aughts. There are the early mainstream pioneers like The L Word and Will and Grace; the wholesome coming-of-age romcoms like Heartstopper and Love, Victor; and the adaptations taking beloved stories one big step further, like Interview with the Vampire, Good Omens, and Hannibal. There are gritty, inspired-by-real-life dramas like Orange is the New Black and Pose, murderous thrillers like Killing Eve and Orphan Black, raunchy comedies like What We Do in the Shadows and Sex Education, and many more stories featuring queer leads with fully fleshed-out storylines.

But even among these big names, this silly gay pirate show stands out by taking what these shows do best and fulfilling a particular need few have met before. The reasons are myriad: It refuses to use queer subtext as a prop or ransom for audience loyalty. It eschews the will-they-won’t-they dance that positions love as an end rather than a beginning. It defies the trope that you must renounce your past in order to move on. It scoffs at the notion of a ceiling for complex queer characters and relationships in a single show. And it demonstrates that depicting the experiences of queer people (and, just as importantly, people of color) don’t always have to center brutality and trauma—that healing can come from making acceptance the norm and bigotry the butt of ridicule, and that being kind doesn’t necessitate being passive.

As a show that didn’t explicitly market itself as “LGBTQ,” one of Our Flag’s most striking aspects is how it subverts the way this genre typically approaches romance. You could argue that the love story begins when Stede Bonnet (Rhys Darby) is recognized as the pirate he wants to be—while three-quarters of the way dead—by none other than the dread Blackbeard (Taika Waititi). Or you could say it begins when Blackbeard, a.k.a Ed Teach, is seen, for the first time, as someone who deserves softness and finery by the epitome of softness and finery himself. Or when Stede comforts Ed as he curls up in a bathtub reliving his worst memories. Or when Stede picks roasted snake out of Ed’s beard. Or when Ed gives himself up to the British to save Stede’s life. Or when…

You get my drift. There’s an entire season’s worth of scenes that make up the foundations of a fandom: moments of intimacy and connection that gesture toward the possibility of something more. These are the planks and rigs of a ship sturdy enough to outpace the fleet of fanworks chasing such moments down until feelings are admitted, consummated, and set sailing off into the sunset. In hindsight, Our Flag was undoubtedly heading in this direction. But it wasn't until the most incontrovertible on-screen gesture of romance happened—a kiss—that fans heaved a sigh of relief. Because fandom, for all its capacity to will alternative universes into being, is inherently bound to the media from which it springs, and many have only ever cast queer love as bait.

But with Our Flag, most fans aren’t at all concerned about what direction the story will take. And the key difference is that they trust the creators wholeheartedly.

For many queer fans, it’s a novel experience to interface with a creative team that is not only aware of exactly who the audience is and what they care about, but also proudly and vocally celebrates them. In interviews, producer and lead actor Taika Waititi has stated that he collects fan art on his phone. Vico Ortiz (who plays the nonbinary pirate Jim Jimenez) has shared that fan art encouraged them to get gender-affirming top surgery. Creator and showrunner David Jenkins once remarked that fan discussions are so spot-on, it was as if they had “been in the writers’ room.” And several queer actors on the show have expressed that the fandom has made them feel even more connected to the LGBTQ+ community.

Our Flag is one of the rare cases where fans and creators share the same vision for a given work. There are no calls for the figurative death of the overly originalist author, nor strict separation of the "canon" of the original work from the "fanon" interpretations of the audience. There is no need for fans to dig for subtext, because what they’ve been searching for has been on board with them all along—not as a blink-and-miss-it pantomime or a nothing-left-to-lose Hail Mary, but a queer love story that was intentionally, thoughtfully crafted from the beginning.

Our Flag presents fans with a vibrant world where everything is mostly beautiful and almost nothing hurts—at least, not yet. Fans can surmise the shape of the second act and the close of the third, even if they don’t know exactly how they’ll get there. But with full confidence in the creators, fans have the opportunity to stretch their imagination beyond tallying evidence and righting wrongs—and it makes for a fandom experience less a eulogy at a funeral of another buried gay, more a toast at the most extravagant and absurd cruise-ship wedding to ever grace the seven seas.

We are all on the same page of the same story, and the experiences of everyone involved is so much richer for it. Or, as Stede would say, treasure is the real treasure.

Fandom, like being a pirate, is in many respects a very queer enterprise. It centers on abandoning the rules so you can survive; grabbing every scrap of home you can find and making it your own; sharing the spoils with the people who see and accept you for who you are and who you want to be. Or, in the words of the show’s pseudo-antagonist, Izzy Hands (Con O’Neill), it's about belonging to something—a something that, I believe, could be enough to help you fall back in love with life and the world.

I think often of the scene that first drew me into Our Flag: Stede asks his former wife, Mary (Claudia O’Doherty), what it feels like to be in love. Looking back at it now, I realize her response describes what the experience of being a part of a community a show like Our Flag creates can feel like. Because love, she tells him, is as easy as breathing. It’s understanding each other’s idiosyncrasies and seeing the charm in them. It’s exposing each other to new things and laughing a lot. It’s passing the time so well together.

To every queer fan out there: I hope you find that, too. I hope you can name it without fear. And I hope you will be embraced for that revelation, and all the wonder and joy it brings.

[some-anonymity-preferred]

Way behind, doing it anyway!

1. When did you discover OFMD? A little later than everyone else. I think I started watching it after all the episodes had dropped, and people were talking about the Gay Pirates.

2. What was your first impression? I didn't quite hate it, and I wasn't sure I'd watch past the first three episodes. That was a surprise to me because I like Kiwi humor. I think the problem was I'd been hearing all about how the show was Amazingly Gay and the End of Queerbaiting and a Big Gay Romcom--and that's just not evident the first time you watch the first three episodes. Amazingly Gay gets a reasonable start, to be fair, and all of it is impossible to miss on rewatch. But the first time through, the End of Queerbaiting and a Big Gay Romcom feel like ridiculous oversells. And even with all the casually depicted queerness in the first three episodes, its amount of Amazingly Gay felt like not enough somehow? It might be partly that Stede presents as such a Camp Gay, and Thor Ragnarok made me a bit suspicious of Taika's handling of that type (in retrospect, that was almost certainly the fault of the MCU). That said, I was totally here for Taika, and he doesn't fully appear in the first three eps.

3. First OFMD pic in gallery

Nah, I'm not going all the way back for that. Here's the most recent still OFMD pic I've reblogged:

4. Reasons you like OFMD I love OFMD for all the reasons I thought I wouldn't make it past episode 3. 😂

I love the pervasive, matter-of-fact presentation of queerness in all its rich variety. I love the Big Gay Romance, and all the other supporting queer romances. I love the Revenge family. I love their deep, multifarious, matter-of-fact diversity. I love that these characters exist within and sometimes rub up against a world that, like the one we know, is deeply antagonistic to them. I love that OFMD handles racism with the same gently brutal realism as it does anti-queerness. Those two elements of the show break me so hard, in such a good way. I also love the hard switch Rhys gives Stede between Bumbling Bumbler and Daddy in Charge, and I love how he adapts it as the situation calls for. (It's literally the biggest thing that convinced me to keep watching despite my misgivings. It takes 20 minutes into S1E1 to first see it, and then, damn.) I love Ed's wet cat energy. I love Stede's hair. I love Ed's hair. I love the Revenge. I love the shifting flashbacks and dream/story sequences. I love Izzy as an antagonist, and the painfully realistic toxic relationship between him and Ed that fuels the antagonism. And I love how Izzy constantly shoots himself in the foot. I love all the supporting male characters of color: Frenchie and Olu and Fang and Roach and Ivan, and how most of them are big guys and are so sexy and I just....yeah.

5. Favorite main character

Ed. I am Ed coded to the absolute max. And he's sexy AF, in all his guises.

6. Favorite supporting character(s)

I am both glad and not to see that "(s)." Could I choose just one? No. Since I am allowed to choose multiple, is it going to look like I'm naming the whole cast? Yep!

Top of the top: Frenchie.

Followed closely by Olu, Mary, Lucius, and Fang.

Honorable mentions: Roach, Nana, the Swede, Buttons, Evelyn, and Alma.

I also love the native community on shipwreck island, Hornberry, and Mister "We Could Have Made Magic." (Jim is too past-me coded for me to love, and Jackie doesn't rate for me yet; I suspect both will change with season 2.)

7. Songs that remind you of your fav characters

Halsey's The Lighthouse is my Stede abandons Ed at the dock theme. Elza Soares' Coracao do mar and Phoebe Bridgers' Motion Sickness also remind me of Ed. White Flag by Joseph for Stede. Here's my OFMD playlist:

8. Underrated character

Frenchie. Frenchie does not get his due in this fandom, and it's a damn shame.

9. Character you resonate most with

Ed, hands down.

10. Character you hated at first but grew to love

Buttons

11. Favorite duo

Frenchie and Olu

12. Scene that made you laugh

Frenchie naming the Pyramid Scheme

13. Scene that made you cry

The bathtub confession

14. Favorite episode

S1E5, The Best Revenge is Dressing Well

15. Favorite quote

"Have you ever been sketched?" --Lucius

16: Favorite line delivery

"Your face." --Roach

[zo1nkss]

OFMD articles getting hidden behind unbreakable paywalls like they're gatekeeping some coveted knowledge.

My dudes its a self insert gay slapstick pirate fanfiction romcom. It literally defines the word camp. Half the ectivities that happen on the show are played for giggles n shits. Why are we being so serious rn.

[laceratedlamiaceae]

#

Hey, I really love your posts about Izzy (and for introducing me to the idea of CJizzy, honestly hadn't occured to me before), but I'm curious how you feel about the show as a whole... You've mentioned that you don't like Ed or Gentlebeard, so what kept you watching S1 until you, how do they put it these days, fell into the Izzy Canyon? Or did you fell in love with Izzy's character from the very first watch? If so, props to you, that's honestly impressive, I think most of us only started liking Izzy from our second rewatch or even later!

Yeah! So, to start with, I feel the most draw to participate in fandoms for media that I feel just okay about--if it's something I love, then I'm not interested in transformative works or headcanons or anything like that, because the source material stands on its own to me; and of course if I just don't like something I don't really want to engage with it at all. OFMD falls perfectly in that space between good and bad for me, where there's so much to like--just the concept of gay pirates is already amazing, and then you have so many interesting, compelling characters, and the vibes of it being a romcom--and then there's stuff I don't like, which as you noted is mostly Ed.

I can appreciate that Stede and Ed are a compelling, well-written love story, and absent my personal feelings about them I think they're a great couple; it's just that there are so, so many different things about Ed that I, personally, feel very strongly about (in a bad way) that brings the show from being amazing to being just okay in my eyes. My first watch I actually did like him and the main relationship; what I think happened--and I know this sounds like a joke, but I haven't been able to come up with a better explanation--is that I was so distracted by how attractive I found him that I didn't really notice Ed's personality. Later, when I was rewatching the show, I realized that he of reminds me of a lot of different people who I've disliked for various reasons, on top of just generally having the type of personality that I don't really vibe with, and then I got caught in a sort of feedback loop where seeing him at all kind of annoyed me, which made me dislike him more, which made me even more annoyed to see him at all, and so on (aka the bitch eating crackers phenomenon; Ed is a supreme BEC to me).

Izzy is actually the other big issue I have with the show--he's too interesting and compelling for what his role in the story demands, and that's why I was so drawn to participating in the fandom; I wanted to give him the attention I felt like he deserved. I liked Izzy from the beginning, I thought he was funny and relatable, but it wasn't until a rewatch and noticing the way he and Ed interacted (which is one of the many things about Ed that hit way too close to home for me) that I started to become an ardent #izzydidnothingwrong truther. I didn't get to that point completely independently, though; the other Izzy Enjoyers back in the early days of the fandom definitely helped.

And again, I do want to stress that me feelings about Ed are just my personal feelings, based on my own bullshit, and I don't intend to make anyone who does like him feel bad about that.

[ladyluscinia]

I don't disagree that fandom ran further with the concept of fuckeries, but I would say that 1x04 is an important spiritual successor to the concept that felt like it was going to be significant. The first demonstration we got of how good Ed and Stede could be together was the lighthouse escape, which I would definitely count as a fuckery. It's a clever, creative victory that doesn't require violence, and it seemed to sate Ed's s1 stated appetite for drama/excitement/fun without triggering him.

Continuing from here... I mean I personally agree with you, but that's also mainly what I was talking about with fandom giving the idea more importance and interest than canon did.

I think a lot of people - myself included - drew that connection from 1x04's proto-fuckery to getting a name for it (and its potential role as a raid alternative) in 1x06 to Stede becoming a true student in 1x10. More detailed examples went for looping in 1x02 and/or 1x05 to show Stede leaning toward trickery over force.

The point isn't that the fandom (basically all of us, not a few outliers) was wrong to run with this - I think it was brilliant, actually, and a big part of why I even cared about writing meta about the pirate society of a romcom - but that the canon of S2 didn't pick the idea back up at all in a way that indicates it was never going anywhere. The pattern we spotted in S1 was apparently not the interesting comedic alternate to action/adventure swashbuckling, but something (significantly more boring tbh) that served to buoy our underdog Stede along without dying until he was far enough in his pirate journey to swing a sword successfully.

Is the lighthouse escape the first demonstration in a larger pattern of how Ed and Stede will work together in the future? Where their mutual tendencies toward creative solutions and dissatisfaction with abusive and violent pirate culture can find a new, more fun way of life?

Or is it a, yes, clever and creative escape they come up with together, but one that only has those specific traits because they are in an impossible situation where they can't fight their way out - narratively because the ship is stranded and crewed by useless pirates, and meta-narratively because they need Stede to contribute as an equal instead of just getting rescued (that was for last episode) and he can't do that in a fight yet?

We thought that the lighthouse plan was supposed to connect to 1x06 and 1x10, but I think it might have only been meant to serve as a fix to Ed's fog and full moon plan (i.e. making an impossible escape).

They just looked similar because all the various wins and conflicts of S1 were shaped around Stede's character journey, but the part of that journey where he can't jump into the fray and kill the mooks too as a real pirate ended with 1x10. Which is why they don't come up with a brilliant way to slip out of the Republic without a fight in 2x08. Stede doesn't need the genre crutch anymore. He is a swashbuckling hero now, and he and Ed can kill people side by side.

You know, once the trauma-based reasons they might not do so are healed by "something something... love maybe?"