#NO ONE DISCOURSE WITH ME IN THE REPLIES I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT

[branmer]

god fandom is not that deep and i wish people would stop pretending that it is and being weirdly judgy and ugly about what other people end up hyperfixating on. just get over yourself

[fight-nights-at-freddys]

"I don't support it in real life!"CW: talk of sexualizing minors, slight rant

Then why write about it? If for coping purposes, why post it online for others (especially actual predators) to see and consume? Then why portray those things in a positive light instead of condemning them?And you're seriously going to tell me that just because as an adult (1) you want to see a fictional minor (that mind you, is usually designed to resemble an actual child) depicted in sexual situations doesn't mean you don't share that same view concerning children in real life? You find fictional minors attractive but not real ones? Why does the line between finding someone who is (and usually also looks like) a child sexually attractive get drawn at whether the child is real or not? I'm not calling anyone pedophiles, but if the shoe fits...(1) No I am not talking about 18 y/os finding 17 y/os attractive. Use your brain. Creating content of underaged characters is still questionable regardless of age, however.

"Just mute/block instead of harassing others!"I have nearly 70k people blocked on twitter, and hundreds of words and tags muted, I softblock and mute people who post things I don't want to see. I still see certain things on my timeline, usually because1) It's posted in the main tags of something I'm interested in2) The post isn't even tagged at all3) If someone quote retweets from someone I've blocked, I still see the take on my timeline.

"Antis use the same rhetoric as exclusionists and TERFS!"What exactly does being against pedophilia have to do with trans (women) exclusionary radical feminism?And what does lgbtq discourse in general have to do with not wanting minors to be sexualized?

"Antis harass people!"Apparently, proshippers have never done this before! Not once has a grown adult stalked literal children for calling their ships gross!Not saying harassments ok at all, but let's not act like the poor proshippers are being oppressed here.Also, I promise you, someone saying "x is a proshipper, please block them if you don't want to see their content" is not harassment. Writing callout posts and videos on underaged "antis", however is most definitely harassment but y'all don't want to hear that. People have the right to know if they are platforming people who go against their personal beliefs and morals. Choosing to hide that from people who would otherwise not want to interact with you for the sake of not wanting to "lose friends" makes you a bad person, and you should feel bad.

replying under the cut bc this ask was long enough, and i don't wanna make ppl who follow us/see this have to scroll for eons

why do you think coping mechanisms have to stay private? if someone's coping mechanism was yoga, or working out, would you say they have to do that by themselves, in the confines of their own house, and they aren't allowed to talk to anyone else about it? i hope not, because that would be ridiculous (inb4 "yeah but yoga isn't harming anyone!", neither is fiction!).

the fact of the matter is, anyone can consume any type of content, and that shouldn't prevent people from making what they like. why not portray it in a positive light? what does it matter? any regular person knows that what they see in fiction should not necessarily be replicated in real life. i know better than to go out and kill someone just because billy loomis and stu macher do it.

furthermore, wouldn't you want actual pedophiles to use fiction rather than them going out and hurting real children? that's not how that works, but using your argument that they're one and the same, wouldn't that be better for everyone, and result in less people getting hurt, ergo fiction doesn't hurt anyone?

no, fictional characters are not meant to resemble actual children. that IS a crime. however, you cannot look at an anime child, or idk, kid ashley from TCOAAL, and tell me that looks like a REAL child. that's nonsense. and no, it does NOT mean i "share the same view concerning children in real life", because those characters aren't real, and i (can't believe i have to say this) am NOT attracted to real children. yes, you ARE calling me a pedophile, which is just categorically not true. it's not "questionable" because it's not REAL, which is necessary for someone to be diagnosed with pedophilia, which is a disorder, and not just some label you can put on people.

genuinely, if you are THAT sensitive to people having other opinions, or are sensitive to different kinds of art, maybe social media isn't the place for you to be. if the post isn't tagged, i agree, something should be done about that, but the fact is, WE DO tag our stuff. that has nothing to do with me (or chica), or even proshippers as a whole. you're doing the thing were you believe one rotten apple spoils the bunch.

when you post something online, you HAVE to understand that literally anyone can view it, and if your accounts aren't private, anyone can interact with it. that is the cost of posting online. if you can't handle that, log off.

i don't think i've ever compared being an anti to being a terf/exclus, BUT they do objectively share some of the same opinions as conservatives, and even nazis (which is NOT to say all antis are conservatives/nazis, but that you share some of the same ideals).

i can't speak much to that because i don't think i've ever made that argument, but it is a lil radfem-y when most of y'all go after specifically BL and yaoi. also terfs aren't only bigoted towards trans women, it's also trans men. idk why you said that.

yes, correct, anyone can harass anyone, but the fact of the matter is, 99% of the time proshippers get harassed, it's while we're in our own lanes, minding our own business, and y'all (much like you're doing right now) come into OUR spaces and call us pedophiles, and say we deserve to die, or that we should kill ourselves.

if you've been following this blog for the last week-ish, you'd have seen some prime examples of just that. doing nothing, talking to no one, and getting harassed. people saying i should be on watchpeopledie, saying i should be killed, that they hope i get cancer, or die in a car accident, or that my dad beats me to death. that i should "slit", cut to the bone, kill myself, hang myself. threatening to doxx me, find my address, have tried to grab my ip. the difference is, when proshippers are found to be doing this stuff, they're called out and reported, often by other proshippers, whereas antis, when they exhibit this behavior, they are encouraged. they're praised by their peers.

if all people did was say "x is a proshipper, block them", we wouldn't have an issue, but the fact is, a significant amount of y'all don't start with blocking. you start with slurs, nasty names, disgusting accusations, and downright deplorable behavior BEFORE you block us. if you block us. and when we block you, it's entirely possible you just create a new account to harass us from, or grab your friends to do it for you.

if platforming people who like different types of fiction than you is that big of a problem, that you feel the need to write callouts, make google docs, harass them, and threaten to doxx them, you need to get off the internet. stop interacting with people AT ALL. live in a bubble. because again, people you don't like are always going to exist on the internet, it's your duty to navigate that in the best way you can, WITHOUT hurting anyone.

people hide the fact they're proship because we don't want the harassment. that's sorta the crux of the issue? you're completely ignoring the COUNTLESS posts of people being harassed for simply existing and being proship. we shouldn't be made to feel bad for trying to protect ourselves and our peace, YOU should be made to feel bad for making others feel bad.

[velvetvexations]

Have you seen the interaction between gwemmieee and faggy—butch circling your feed yet? What a mess

@gwemmieee I'm gonna tag you here because your pinned asks that people talk to you when they have issues with what you say. It seems like you might be tired of discussing the subject, though, and I encourage you to ignore this if you would you would rather. It's essentially my take on the first few things you said and why I feel like they weren't great and people were right to be bothered by it, but you don't seem like a terrible person and it's more important that you take care of yourself than throw yourself into endless argument.

@faggy--butch I'll also tag you if this feels relevant to you, lmk if you'd rather I take it out

-----

I generally keep discourse off my feed because if I follow someone who talks about the intercommunity stuff I can handle they inevitably talk about the stuff that's triggering for me. There are several people I'd love to be mutual with otherwise.

I'd heard about it but did not realize it was quite that...extensive. Mm. I'm not sure if my perspective as another transfem would help or not since she seems in a rough place over it. I'll say there her things in her original reply that faggy--butch didn't even mention that I didn't like, like claiming trans men have problems getting access to certain spaces but trans women can't exist anywhere. That's pretty dire and if not for the insistence that she believes in the validity of transandrophobia would probably be enough to get me to be mean to her, but it seems like she was genuinely trying to be negotiable, and that's an important distinction when a lot of people really are treating transmasc issues as so much lesser in comparison to transfems.

The problem is that "transandrophobes bad" is not really a negotiable position. In what way are "baby transfems" being "vilified"? It's not a matter of not being up to date. Some of the things not only transfems but also self-identified TMEs - note that the OP did not say transfems - are really vile and cruel. To jump onto a post saying that to protest that one shouldn't be too mean to them back feels...weird.

Like;

However, if a trans masc wants to hold any baby trans fem to an unreasonably high standard of always knowing what is and isn't OK to say, and what feelings are not OK to voice, instead of engaging in good faith and trying to hear them, validate them, educate them, and NOT control them, that's kinda fucked up.

That's just not happening. That's not what's going on. To say transandrophobes simply "don't know what is and isn't okay to say, and what feelings are not OK to voice" really truly is treating them like literal babies. It may not be what she meant to say but it's so hard to understand a meaning to those initial posts that aren't saying one should never get mad at a trans woman for anything they say or do because being treated like a bad person is traumatic.

She seems to have gone on to have a better conversation about it with others where she understood more of what was being said and was able to clarify her thoughts more, but that still ends with blaming others for coming in too hot and I don't think that tracks at all. Even if she didn't mean to say something, she still said what she said and it's not really fair to turn that around as everyone just misunderstanding her and it not being her fault for that.

[matan4il]

Im currently doing a simple poll on my other account what Tumblr thinks of a Free Palestine and I say the results so far are a little concerning

And then two comments so far:

ardwolff: That's like saying we give a small chunk of land back to the indigenous American people and keep the rest for ourselves while we "live in peace" -- y'all do realize a Palestine historically was home to Jewish people and can be again if we abolish the Israel - backed apartheid ethnostate. No theocratic ethnostates should exist. They are inherently unjust

beigale-shtuchim: hey buddy what happened to the jewish population in MENA states?

Hi! First off, sorry that it took me so long to reply, I am getting so many asks, and I do not have as much time to reply as I would like, despite doing my best to find it... But I hope you know that I appreciate everything you do!

Thank you so much for doing this poll, and for sharing the temporary results. Do you have the final ones? If so, I hope you consider adding a link to them here.

There are different strategies researched in psychology about how to persuade people to come around to your position. It actually started out with marketing, but can be applied to any campaign aimed to get the public to subscribe to a specific position. One of them is the "foot in the door" strategy, a term that comes from those salespeople who show up on your doorstep, trying to sell you stuff you weren't even looking to buy. Their first challenge is how to keep you from slamming the door in their faces. If they right away offer you to buy something big and expensive, which you don't even need, you're likely to do exactly what they don't want. But if they get you to agree to something small, then they "got their foot in the door," you won't slam it in their faces 'coz you agreed to something small, and now they have you engaged. And the more engaged you are, the more invested you become. If you've already said yes to the small thing, you're now invested, and they can start talking you into why, if you're gonna buy this thing anyway, a bigger and more expensive version makes more sense.

The way it is defined here: "The foot-in-the-door technique (or FITD) is a strategy used to persuade people to agree to a particular action, based on the idea that if a respondent will comply with a small initial request then they will be more likely to agree to a later, more significant, request, which they would not have agreed to had they been asked it outright."

That's what the anti-Israel movement basically did. They started out with a smaller, more reasonable request, for people to care about the "Palestinian problem" (which means they were getting more and more people invested in it), and agree to a Palestinian state alongside a Jewish one. That wouldn't be as hard for people to agree to, especially since Jews themselves had agreed to that notion back in 1947, when they accepted the UN partition plan. Then, once people are invested in caring about the Palestinian problem, the discourse switched to how Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state, and the only solution is to destroy it. Now all of a sudden, if you really care about Palestinians, then it's not enough to support a two state solution, you have to be against Israel, you have to be against Zionists, you have to be against the Jewish right to self-determination, anything less than that, and you are failing the Palestinians (who by now are depicted as the world's greatest victim, even though there is plenty of comparison data to refute that notion). And you do care about the Palestinians, right? So you gotta be against the Jews. Sorry, Zionists.

Also, I would love to hear what chunk of the land @ardwolff lives on they gave away to native people, while they're so willing to distort the history of Israel and erase the native rights of Jews here, making us the only native nation to have returned to its ancestral land, only to discover the world wants to displace it again. First it was done by the Romans 2,000 years ago through colonialism, now it's "in the name of" anti-colonialism (as its been packaged by your friendly FITD seller), but by punishing a native population, it's playing right into the hands of colonialists still...

I hope you're doing well! xoxox

(for all of my updates and ask replies regarding Israel, click here)

[bloggingboutburgers]

Reading your blog, I'm starting to see my relationship with my bf differently (we've been together for over a decade). Like, I've been questioning my romantic orientation for some time, suspecting I might be somewhere on the aromantic spectrum. But I realise I don't really have a clear image of what romance actually is and if it's something I have in my relationship. Like, he's my best friend. But what makes it different that a very close friendship? Apart, you know, the fact we live together and see each other every day. I'm also asexual so we don't really have sex, but for the very rare time I feel like doing something for him, but it's not really something we do, though I know sex and romance are to different things, straight people tend to say that the difference between friendship and dating is sex. I've heard allos saying "if I don't have sex with my s/o, what are we? Friends?" Anyway, I'm just more and more confused by what those criterias are for defining what is and what is not a romantic relationship. Love? I mean, love can have so many forms, how am I to regognise which one I feel? I just care about my bf. I like spending time together. We help each other on a daily basis. And when one of us need alone time we give as much time as the other needs. We do our things each in our corners and meet in the middle when we want company. We're happy this way. And that's great! I just can't comprehend what this all means. Sometimes I'm confused about the feelings I get for other people. Am I attracted to them or do I just want to smother them with my intense friendship? Which is hard. I sometimes feel like I love my friend to hard and I shy away during our interactions for fear to overwhelm them with my love. What's the difference between the two? Between my relationship with my bf and the friendship with those people I have to keep away sometime for fear to be "too much"? I'm sorry for these ramblings. You probably don't have the answers to this, but I needed to tell all this to someone that might understand at least some of it. I love your blog btw.

Sorry I'm replying so late – but thank you so much for all of this input, it's actually so interesting to hear your take on your own experience.

You're right, I don't have the answers, because every experience is very personal and I don't wanna project onto others, but there's a lot of points I actually relate to very much – like, I don't have a clear idea of what romance even is either, I just feel in my gut that it's not what I have with my queerplatonic partner. I guess in my own case I've also always had a bit of trouble with the idea of a "best friend" (like, I HAVE entertained the idea that this or that person might be my "best friend" at some points in my life, but I always end up coming back to the thought that I don't feel OK putting one person above others in my head – I work more in tiers made out of several people at once).

I might also be overthinking things but I often hear in the long-term-relationship discourse that romantic partnerships often wind up turning into friendship over time and that's OK – no idea how that works but it's interesting to think about, and I wonder if there's any truth to that on an aromantic spectrum basis? Like maybe... If both of us are on the aromantic spectrum, then maybe we just didn't get the "romantic high" part because we don't feel romantic attraction or feel it less than most people, and we're straight to that "friendship" part people talk about? ...Either way, what you describe with your bf sounds like a vibe, a healthy vibe to me. Sounds like you guys have it figured out and I wish you the best, honestly.

Also lol it really IS a useful and sobering reminder that to most allo people, the "sex = romance" idea is probably very prevalent still... Makes it even harder to figure ourselves out

Either way sorry for rambling and thank you SO MUCH for sharing your self-reflection, honestly, whatever conclusion you come to I hope life is good for you^^

[antimony-medusa]

I read your post on boundaries and the MCYT community recently and have been thinking about as posts that contradict it cross my dash, and I’ve been reflecting on how a lot of what we call “boundaries” are more just like. Community rules? Like take “no sexualization,” for instance. If I’m talking to someone at my workplace, I am not comfortable with them making sexual remarks about me. If someone did, I would tell them so, and not engage in that conversation with them. That’s an actual boundary — something governing how people interact with ME that I am in charge of enforcing. I don’t say “no one is allowed to think anything sexual about me at work ever or tell their friends I’m hot” bc that’s just insane and none of my business, quite frankly. Streamers are well within their rights to say they aren’t comfortable seeing people sexualizing them in their chat or like very publicly on Twitter, but saying no one can sexualize them ever is actually just a community rule, not a personal boundary. Based on how I understand what a boundary is, it can’t be boundary breaking to do something that a creator definitely will not see, because the creator isn’t interacting with the content, and boundaries are about governing comfort in interactions. And saying “I don’t want there to be sexualization or sexual content about me in the main tags bc my main audience is children who browse those tags and they shouldn’t be exposed to that” is a reasonable enough rule to ask your community to follow, but it’s just straight up not a boundary? Like am I misunderstanding what a boundary is? I’m confused bc I’m seeing all this stuff about boundary breaking content and how it’s disgusting even if the creator will never see it and I just don’t get it?

Yeah, I think this is a situation where we're using words to mean something they don't technically mean (see also, "lore"), and then this leads to us also having community arguments about what is acceptable, and it's all totally unnecessary.

Cause the workplace comparison is a good one! If I was telling fellow coworkers how hot they were when they'd said they didn't want to hear that, or walking up to the barista and saying that I wanted them to weigh in on the porn I'd written about them, that would be workplace sexual harrasment and, depending on the severity of the situation, literally a crime I could be charged with. Absolutely inappropriate to do, and I can't express how extremely fair it is that streamers get to say no to that. I am FULLY in support of CCs setting those limits for their spaces and think it's healthy and we all need to respect that.

But "boundaries", as a term, is technically about controlling your own behaviour and people's access to you. You set a boundary and say to your parents "if you bring up grandkids at the christmas meal I will be leaving", or "if you mention [latest discourse] on my blog I will block you". It's about controlling your experiences via your own behaviour and the stuff that you actually see. CC equivalent is saying that any sexualization or shipping in their chats or replies will lead to a block or a ban. That's them controlling their own experience and that's A-ok. Asking a CC to weigh in on what sort of fan work they're comfortable being shown, that's also about them controlling their own experience and is totally fair.

Asking a CC to weigh in on what sort of fan work exists in general— that's not boundaries any more, that's something else entirely. The closest equivilent is companies trying to control what sort of materiel their image or trademarked material show up in, I think? Which is a thing you can do when you're licensing your image, but isn't actually a thing you can do with fan works. Celebrities get to say no they're not going to appear in a commercial advertising an oil company, because they have a moral disagreement with oil companies, but that's because the interaction there is a company offering to pay them money for their image and them declining the money. That's not how fan works operate. The celebrity isn't in a position to decline the money for their "image" being used, because no money is being offered, because the fan isn't making money. It's not a copyright/licensing situation, it's fan works. The celebrity shouldn't be part of the conversation at all, because they should never see that.

And like, there's issues of impersonation or endorsement where it's bad form to do something that looks like it comes from the celebrity, as though they approve of what is being depicted, which is why AI voice lines and deepfakes are being increasingly spoken out against. But man, someone writing Captain Puffy's and PearlescentMoon's cubitos kissing each other on Ao3 and keeping it on Ao3 is not a situation where celebrity endorsement or licensing or impersonation comes in at all. That's a conversation totally within the fandom, without the creators involved. And I really disagree with asking the creator to treat all of fandom like their community, which they should moderate and like, control their image and make kids-and-advertiser-friendly, because that's not how fandom works and also that is unfair to ask of them.

Can one or both of the creators say they don't want to see that? Totally fair. That's a boundary. Can they say that it shouldn't exist in their main tag that kids check? I'm on the side of tagging things to keep them away from minors and people who don't want to see it anyways, rock on. That's a community rule. Can they say that it should never exist ever, anywhere on the internet? That's just not how this works. A) that's not how fan works have ever worked, fan works are for transforming and celebrating existing canon, not for creator approval, and we should stop shoving all of them in creators' faces or asking them to weigh in, B) "boundaries" is entirely the wrong word for what's going on there, like you said. Cause is the mere existence of a thing in a seperate space infriging on the creator's experience and reasonable for them to control? That's what a boundary is, this isn't. C) This isn't even community rules that it makes sense for them to moderate! When you are talking about an entirely different space, cut off from the CCs, doing their own thing to the characters, with age barriers and trigger warnings built in, "boundaries" isn't the right term, but also this doesn't make sense as a space that we're inviting creators into to moderate. This is a seperate space, and stories or art in it aren't hurting people, even if the cc's wouldn't want to see that or even want them in their main community tabs. So yeah when it comes to us enforcing our own community rules, keeping creator boundaries and community rules in mind, the mere existence of a thing does not seem to me like the end of the world. A lot of people have come out and said that all our work needs to be sqeaky clean and able to be shown in the creator's chat, as though the creator is moderating the space and their personal boundaries are involved. And (listing things yet again, this is a post of lists), first of all there's a real focus on sexualization in that case and never on things like family dynamic or kidfic or gore or whump that could also make creators uncomfortable if it was shoved in their faces. (But somehow when anyone brings up those "boundaries" everyone comes to the conclusion that something entirely off on the internet somewhere and never shown to the creators is not going to harm them. Curious.) And second of all, I just disagree that that's a good way to run a fandom community. This is a space for fans, not for the creators, bringing up the "weird stuff" publically to creators is incredibly cruel to people who shouldn't have to see that, AND it's a bad atmosphere for creativity to always want the creators to approve things, fandom is for saying "fuck the man" and doing your own thing. Just tag it to keep it away from people who don't want to see it, and filter the tags for your own experience. Keep everything in its own space and you're good. There's tons of stuff in the fandom that isn't to my taste, ranging from characters that just don't do it for me to tropes that are active turn offs to people writing and undertagging things in ways that is concerning to me. We have got to learn to say "that's not for me" and "that's not for the cc" and put it away (block if you have to) and move on.

[mazzystar24]

Hi, a 'BT' here! (Although I also happily ship buddie too because multishipping is so valid!) I come in peace and just looking for some discourse if that's okay? I saw the ask in regard to apparently BTs are saying that all the focus on rg means he's leaving? I haven't seen anyone say that on either side so a strange one huh!

But it was more your comments in terms of pushing for Tommy to replace Eddie as lead when Ravi is right there and I just wanna say I agree! And I have seen many bucktommy shippers including myself pushing for Ravi to be main cast. He absolutely should be and deserves it and is an absolute darling angel and I love what he brings to the whole dynamic!

My biggest hope for Tommy is for his to be recurring much like Karen! Speaking of, there's another character I'd love to be main cast and who I think is ahead of the queue in front of Tommy to be main cast. Heck I'd love if all of them got to be main cast but, as much as I love bucktommy, I definitely can see there's an order to who should be main cast and don't want any 'queue jumping'

One other thing I want to out out there as food for thought, is that on both sides I see a lot of discourse thrown out through anonymous asks of 'oh the bts are saying this' or 'the buddies said this ridiculous thing!' And something I would love both sides to seriously consider is... did they really? Or are there just a few people out there who feed on the chaos that it all brings and will send out anon asks that they know will increase this 'fandom war'and pretend they are kn the other side when doing so just to get a reaction and give ammunition to 'their' side to make it seem like one side is delusional and the other side isn't?

Tldr I just wish we all got along and stopped taking messages intended to stir up hate as gospel.

Peace and love

Glad you agree on the Ravi/ main thing front!

As you know I want tommy out already so no recurring hopes from me sorry 😔💔 ngl at first I was like hmm it can be interesting and I’m not opposed to exploring bt and their potential dynamic and maybe they can redeem him and make him likeable it’d be perfect (like my comparison was if they wrote him like Hannah from bones) but like buddie endgame but as eps went on both he and a section of the fandom became so insufferable to me that I’m like I don’t care about the potential juicy storylines I just want this man off my screen - but it’s totally cool if you like him and ship them it’s just not my cup of tea

For the other part I totally get what you mean and that may be the case like I totally agree that that is possible but I hear like so many things that happen in the bt fandom secondhand cos I’ve got so many of the toxic/annoying ones blocked (my block list is a mile long genuinely) and so many have me blocked too but usually stuff that my anons mention will be talked abt by more people in the fandom (like this is) or like there have been times where if I ask my anons for elaboration links ss etc and they are able to do so

That’s why half the time when I reply it’s more so like “damn didn’t know that if that is the case then xyz” you know? Or if I saw something I’ll mention it and be like oh yeah I saw xyz and this is my opinion on it or answer

Also like I’ve first hand seen things that are like 10x worse or more delusional than the “rg must be leaving and s8 lfj main” thing like no lie some of this stuff makes that seem tame in comparison so it’s like the chances they’ve said this are like HIGH

Genuinely I agree with you on that last point I do wish that this fandom was how it used to be and more peaceful but certain things I follow this kinda mental rule I’ve always had which is that I won’t respect a disrespectful opinion

Like from the very start of the discourse I’ve been very oh let ppl ship what they want and enjoy their fandom space and from the start I’ve encouraged proper tagging to help people do that and like even if you’re fully delusional abt your ship I fully respect that (not saying YOU are but I’m saying like let’s say one side is like yesss they are getting married in s8 and having a baby on the first episode I would genuinely just mentally be like woah that’s a bit delulu but love that for you and move on)

My only issue really has been where people from the bt fandom (not saying they are the only ones who do this but I’m saying personally speaking it’s what I see and what I experience also not saying it’s all the bt fans and I do try to say that as much as possible) being disrespectful whether this be through being racist, being ableist or rude to the buddie fans just to boost their ship

Like I’m so not against hating stuff like seriously idc hate whatever you want rant about it and make twenty posts and make so many jokes but when you’re being disrespectful or when it crosses certain bounds it’s like you’re a piece of shit

Anyways I got carried away but thanks for being so nice and respectful in your ask 🫶

[mdzs-owns-my-ass-i-guess]

No bitches?

@cullen-blue23 🧟💖⚡️ was another one I thought of (“Jiang Cheng discovering the resident Fierce Corpse has a more successful love life than he does” was a joke I made to a friend a while back and it got a few laughs)

Had way too much fun writing this, I was laughing so hard. This is crack, don't start discourse on me.

Anyways, Wen Ning fucks. And he does it well. That's why he has so many return customers.

Jiang Cheng doesn't mind being single. He doesn't, really - he's made peace with it, he doesn't need anyone, he has things to do and a partner isn't one of them.

He has a sect to run, he has to help Jin Ling settle into his new leadership role, he has night hunts to go to and work to bitch about. So, he's very busy. Much too busy - in fact, even if he did want a relationship, which he does not, he would probably not even have time for even the most basic forms of intimacy. It's a blessing he got blacklisted, the last thing he needs is matchmakers pestering him.

So this isn't about him being jealous. It's about him being entirely fucking scandalized that the entirety of Lotus Pier thirsts after the Ghost General. You know, Wen Ning. Wen Ning. Wen, as in the Wen that attacked and killed their families 15-something years ago.

Nobody in this damn sect has any dignity.

Jiang Cheng is busy, as we've already established, and he has tasks to delegate to certain disciples. Regular sect leader stuff, right? Except that the universe fucking hates him and it's become a regular occurrence for his disciples to take "sick days" whenever there is word of the Ghost General being in the area.

Apparently, the incidence of "broken backs" and "unable to walk" has increased in the Jiang sect. Now Jiang Cheng may not be all too versed into this whole medicine thing, but he knows that's not an epidemic.

God, he can't even try to kill Wen Ning about it. The Lan sect's basically adopted him, and the last thing Jiang Cheng wants is to deal with them too - so all he can do is, I guess, let the Ghost General run through his entire sect.

And the worst part is, they like it. Jiang Cheng has to make an active effort not to hear about what exactly Wen Ning can do and he genuinely would rather die than ever find out. He doesn't want to know, he doesn't need to know, and he's going to qi deviate if he has to order new bedframes for his disciples ever again. Whatever the hell Wen Ning does to them, he can do it on the goddamn floor, where he won't break anything.

How the hell are dead people so fucking horny?

Actually, don't answer that.

Problem is, Jiang Cheng has started to sort of accept this. He's already had to swallow the fact that his golden core isn't his, there's very few things worse than that.

So you can imagine the kind of thing Jiang Cheng walked into his head disciple and Wen Ning doing in the Lotus Lake for him to write an official letter - stamped and everything - to the Lan sect, specifically addressed to Hanguang-Jun's honorable spouse.

Wei Wuxian,

I don't know and neither do I care to find out what the hell is causing your horn dog of a fierce corpse to come to my place and defile all my disciples, but by God if you don't do something about it, I'm going to cause a diplomatic incident that not even the fucking Lan sect will be able to mediate it.

Sect Leader Jiang Wanyin.

Three days letter, a very elegant reply in perfect calligraphy - Lan Wangji, for sure - reaches the Lotus Pier.

Jiang Wanyin,

No bitches?

Hanguang-Jun, Lan Wangji.

[ca-suffit]

First of all, thank you so much for your reply. I really needed to hear that I wasn't the only one who found the lack of melanin conspicuous, cuz everytime I saw the post had more notes than the last like I thought I was tweaking.

Second, you're so right about the nature of this fandom's discourse. Most of it's just platitudes. It's all very... It’s all these ostensibly leftist or at least liberal ppl misusing therapyspeak and being downright nasty with no regard for (other) BIPoC fans' feelings (or the themes of the show), trying to cudgel ppl with how "smart" they are and how "dumb" we are.

I think the nasty thing for me is that I love what the show is doing, but then I check on the fandom and it goes ah ah ah negro you don't understand anything at all. Read Chrétien de Troyes' body of work and watch random USAmerican show #47 before you try speaking again.

I'm coming across as confrontational, I think, and I don’t mean to. Let me try again. Food for thought for the well-intentioned:

Are you really engaging with the show's critique of white supremacy if your behaviour in fandom replicates it? Using the white Western literary canon etc as shorthand for your intelligence/the worth or value of your interpretation. Are you actually egaging with the show's critique of cisheteropatriarchy if all those texts were created by and largely for an audience of cishet men? Maybe ppl don't need degrees in literary or gender and queer studies to have worthwhile insights. Maybe condescending to people while being unfamiliar with a whole host of queer Black literature when talking abt a queer Black show is at best... foolish. Maybe it weren’t for all that then watching the show would feel less like stepping on a rake. Okay, sorry, now I'm being petty (and elitist). I'm trying not to make assumptions or broadsweeping statements here.

Like you said it's all in service of not mentioning what even the blind can see. That's not a value judgement, ppl don't usually bury the subject consciously, white or BIPoC, it's our society. But that's why you gotta think and talk about race, because when you don't, you leave it unchallenged and it perpetuates.

Reading that the Utena thing at least didn't start (?) with non-Black fans did make me feel weirdly more positive about it. Anthy and Utena... Hm. Loustat is everywhere to see for the delusional. 🫶🏿

(I keep mentioning in asks that I'm very happy with the show and I hope it doesn't come across as trying to shame/police fans who aren't or sound like I'm gloating - I just wanna contextualise my specific frustrations.)

This felt productive to me.

Thank you so much for this space and especially for your time, I realise what a huge amount of emotional labour this blog must require (and here I come, shoveling more shit onto you 🫤). You've been both very thoughtful and thought-provoking. - 🦁

I'm out of brain energy to give this a better response rn but I've rly appreciated u being here and sharing what u do, and thank u so much for the compliments too. I used to have this account locked down bcuz I only ever saw anon asks and post comments and stuff allowing bullying to happen in more hidden spaces. I never thought the fandom could utilize the same things in order to be more vocal about a lot of stuff. I love that we've all discovered that this can work like this now. there's still shit happening at times but it's become a lot more positive here than it was at the beginning, bcuz ppl *want* to have these conversations.

[black-salt-cage]

sorry it took me a while to come back, the replies are right, and i didnt use any specific labels because its a super wide range of people and labels, i asked because you said radqueer DNI and sometimes people will include anyone who has a trans identity outside of gender in that- regardless of if we're radqueer or not. I wanted to make some stimboards with these gifs, i wouldnt have asked otherwise, im really sorry for the confusion. I have that like, "autism made me super scared of being misunderstood" issue. i know i shouldnt ask otherwise i was just worried because of that because radqueer doesnt really have a solid definition and sometimes people include things that arent inherently radqueer. i have race dysphoria myself and consider myself trace (lots of us dont use the term transrace because of the problems it raised with 'transracial adoptee' so it gets shortened together to trace, tracial, etc.) and im more than aware that my like, life. is controversial. same with my transpecies friends. sorry for asking, i really wasnt going to, and i get no pleasure from asking these, im sorry if it seems i was trying to start anything. im just really used to violent hate so i get nervous/

okay, I'm gonna try and word this as nicely but firmly as possible. If someone gets upset at my response to this so be it, but know I wish to make myself nonaggressive but transparent in what I have to say. I'll be putting this under the cut because this pertains to discourse, and if you don't want to see it just skip this ask.

If you identify yourself as radqueer or consider yourself as part of the community then I do not want your interaction. Despite what you may believe, I have seen far too many radqueers show glowing support of maps, aams, zoos, and other such things that I find despicable to support. To any radqueer identifying person that reads this and thinks I'm wrong, you have a right to disagree with me. Maybe you don't support things like pedophilia and zoophilia, but too many radqueers do, and I find that the community itself provides a safe space to such things as the basis of it's beliefs. I'm not sure if you are saying you consider yourself radqueer anon but if you do, I'd like to politely ask you not to engage with us or our content as I don't feel we have any productive words to exchange with one another. That goes for anyone who's radqueer.

For therians or transspecies or whatever anyone calls themselves that may apply to such a category, that is something that I can't say I exactly relate to, but like most things people do with their own lives that doesn't have any effect on anything or anyone other than the person themself, I don't really care what you do.

Now. Here's the part I don't think you're going to like. I'm gonna tell y'all something about myself.

I am white. 100% white. This system is within a white body. I have not and will never experience any form of racism, cultural appropriation, or what have you that could ever affect my life in any negative way whatsoever. What I AM is transgender, and have openly identified as such for more or less a decade at this point. I also live in an area that does not take too kindly to trans people and have had slurs thrown at me in broad daylight out in public because I was very clearly not a cis woman. To quote what you said in your last ask:

"its just there's a lot of misinfo and regurgitated transphobia surrounding the topic, and im no stranger to helping educate and clear away misconceptions, im sure as a profic blogger youre familiar with situations like that."

I find it offensive and, frankly, insulting, that the topic of trace, or transracial, or whatever you wish to call it, would be considered a marginalized group that would fall under the topic of "transphobia". My reality is that I have people in my every day life who weaponize my gender identity against me. I'm sure you hear comments online that aren't very nice. hell, I'm sure you've heard some very mean and nasty ones. I do not think anyone should be harassed or bullied for any reason.

But while you may not realize it, that comment in your last ask was incredibly condescending. I do not need the bigotry I face on a daily basis explained to me. I am very well aware of what it's like to deal with transphobia on a day to day basis, and I don't appreciate the implication that I'd need to be "educated" for not outright supporting something that I cannot blame people for thinking is racist.

I'm not here to tell you what to do, and I sincerely doubt at the end of the day anything I say will change your mind. In fact I anticipate that you probably don't like me one bit after answering and I can accept that. But I cannot say I support it. I'm white and I'm planting my butt in my lane where it belongs, and I have heard many poc speak out against it for incredibly good reasons, and I agree with them. I don't wish ill will on you nor do I know what your story is, your feelings are, or anything of the sort. But I am not the person to go to for validation on this.

So in case it's not clear I'll make it clear now: I don't support the concepting of transitioning to another race, regardless of whatever word you wish to call it

[asksoldieron]

SO-27: The Blade of Grass...

If there's a lot of engagement on this, this post is liable to get real long, beware before you expand.

No art, but I am working on it and I will add it retroactively. I hope.

Welcome to the Engagement Lounge, for Papers, Please (256|27) an instalment! Short comments can go in the replies, but there's a 475 character limit. Longer ones will need a reblog. Remember to @asksoldieron if you're reblogging someone else's reblog, so I can see it too!

Uh-oh, something happened!

"It’s different on either side of the path. I don’t know what splits it in two and I’m through asking questions. I am certain it is something very small, I would have seen it otherwise. As little as a blade of grass. I can’t tell which blade of grass...” -Barnaby Graham, while dying, verbosely

He missed it. Now we're past it. But what happened? God willing, we'll get to it!

I've been waiting to write this one for years! I expected it to have less exposition. Heh. What a foole I was.

This is also the one where Ann has her little freakout and says one of my favourite lines, but she's obviously saying it FOR Milo, verbatim, as HE says it: “Don’t you ever talk about my kids that way again. Don’t you ever use the people I love as a bludgeon trying to break me. I’m already broken and I will cut you!”

You tell 'em, siblings. Every once in a while you get one of those, where they're both talking in unison. You can only hear one of them, but the General caught it. Mordecai did, too, in Shots! Shots! Shots!, but he was more of a dick about it.

I don't react well to people trying to break me, either. The, uh, discourse is getting pretty rough now, though. Getting into abusive territory. Having to block some folks I thought were basically OK. When this six is done, I'm probably going to go on hiatus until after the election, work on some art (hopefully), regroup and try to figure how to self-promote better.

It's gonna be a weird week, I got two doctors things in one day. One of 'em's with the eye doctor who did the surgery which gave me double vision in one eye and blurry vision in the other. I hope I hear something better than, "Well! You rolled the dice and you lost!" If I need more surgery, though, fuuuuuck. Fingers crossed for late-onset corneal clouding, that might get better.

End of the week is a brief vacation in an RV in the woods! It's very cheap. We keep going to places that are suicidally cheap. We wanted to go back to the duct-tape, death trap houseboat, but it wasn't available. At all. Seems to have vanished. We're on our way back to the same "resort," so I guess we'll see if it sank!

Still need to post those houseboat pics, but now may not be the time...

Oh! In other news, the .space site is finally gone. I knew the account it was hooked up to didn't exist anymore, so I let it die. End of a dumb era, wherein I had unending issues with the site refusing to load and no idea some ISPs block .space addresses. Could I have picked up more readers without that? No idea! Not doin so hot with a .com!

[Back to Site?]

[foibles-fables]

I know there’s a lot of turmoil in the Horizon fandom right now  but I just wanted to say that you remain one of the coolest people I have ever known in this fandom. You make amazing content and support so many WLW ships. You’re always up for crazy Theories and headcanons, and are kind to anonymous commenters,  even when they badly jumble their words and sound like they’re being mean, which I’ve definitely done by mistake but you understood my true intent, even before I clarified. Thank you for all you do in this space, you’re an amazing person that still makes me enjoy this game, even with the highs and lows of HFW’s writing and the recent shipping chaos. Please know your works have made me smile so much through the years and your posts always brighten my feed. Thanks for everything!

You know what? Usually I reply to these kinds of asks with a hilariously zany meme and some earnest capslocked gratitude. But I want to be super, super serious and genuine with my appreciation for this one. It's so flattering and fulfilling to hear you say this. Honestly, tearing up a little. I always strive to be a fount of positivity and enthusiasm about the things I enjoy, even when being positive is incredibly difficult (see: immediately post-HFW, lmao). So it means so much to me to hear that opinion reflected back. So thank you, truly, from the very bottom of my heart. <3 <3 <3

I do wanna talk about the current unsteadiness in the fandom. No matter what, Burning Shores has shown us one very, very important thing: Horus terrifying protect Gildun with our lives Aloy is beautifully, canonically, fantastically queer. This is the central takeaway and something to fuckin' celebrate, everyone. Representation matters--and for sure, unabashed representation like this is so absolutely crucial in today's world. Guerrilla has done an incredible thing and it's an utter amazement to have received it.

But beyond that: nothing else has changed. We absolutely do not need to be engaging in bickering and discourse. Everyone is still entitled to their headcanons and (respectfully-stated!) opinions. No ships have been sunk. There is a place in this fandom for everyone. I don't want to start having to avoid bitterness in this space that's given me such solace and joy and community over the last few years. That's no way for a group of people to share in the enjoyment of something.

Everything is still SO fresh and new, but it’s high time to begin evaluating our responses—especially with GG's quiet announcement of the third game being in development. Let’s shape up in support of our series and carry love and light forward, being enthusiastic about our favorite parts and letting others have their joy as well.

[my-mt-heart]

First of all, thank you for being always so insightful and open to discussion with anyone! You're one of the few I genuinely rely on when I need to talk and share ideas/doubts. I was thinking about the whole marketing discourse. Let's be clear, amc sucks at that, it did with all the spin-offs (which I only recently found out are more than 20???) and surprisingly with the three main ones as well because everything they did wasn't certainly enough compared to other networks. Amc has always done the bare minimum and every info about the richonne/negan&maggie spinoffs that reached me was mostly because of their fans. Yes they got promos and interviews (I think Dead City/Lauren&JDM even did more interviews than Andrew & Danai) but from my point of view their fandoms did most of the job. I don't even follow any of them but I used to have my twitter timeline full of their posts every single day, at any time. I remember they used to bomb any inch of their spaces with videos, speculations, headcanons, fanarts, endless convos and all that, which I think contributed to attract a lot of curiosity out of their fandom and it worked!!! I kept seeing so many tweets full of replies and theories and hype that I had to go on a mute spree because I couldn't take it anymore. Now my point is... why don't we do the same thing?? We as a fandom can do a lot to create hype and the target people (those who have stopped watching the show after negan showed up or so) would follow us because enthusiasm is what attracts the old fans who gave up. That's the real deal! We are!! TWD main accs would ultimately follow the flow, but we really... REALLY need to start it. Dead City next seasons (that'll air in 2025) is already being promoted and the fans are already talking about it, richonne fans are still being loud and lit like if their show were still on.... why can't we do the same? We constantly complain about Amc not being there for us but the first ones that should are... US. We need to be present and make noise and above all enthusiast!

You don't need to convince me that rallying works. Melissa wouldn't have had the option to come back if it weren't for all the noise her fans made. No one she worked with was offering her the support she deserved, so we had to do it.

With TBOC's promotion, it's a catch 22. Caryl definitely sells. Their fans can definitely build hype, and AMC can definitely save their money, but it's still their responsibility to release content that'll kick the target audience into high gear so that they stay motivated to post, speculate, make posters, and all the things, which would then reel in the Carylers who left at one point or another, which would then get the attention of the GA, and so on and so forth.

What they're doing instead is splintering what should be a reliable viewership. Norman's buzz words, reposts of fanart, and photos of Melissa/Carol just existing are hyping some of us while others are scratching their heads at why Carol is reduced to a subtitle, why the teasers are shipbaiting Daryl with a nun, and why two. fucking. years later we're still hearing about showrunners getting fired and Melissa being left out of S1 because she wasn't important enough. I would love to be enthusiastic enough to do the heavy-lifting, but if that's what's being asked of me, why do I need to get punched in the face first? How do I go about promoting a Daryl and Carol show if I can't even tell if that's what I'm really getting? Why aren't they leaning into what all Carylers love about their relationship? Why aren't they capitalizing on Caryl's/McReedus' chemistry? And if all of that is what half of Carylers who have stayed this long are feeling as well, the chances of getting lost Carylers to come back are slim, the GA/new viewers won't see the buzz, and supplementing with viewers who hate Cary/Carol won't work either because they aren't going to be in it for the long haul.

So again, if AMC wants my help, then I want them to motivate me. Tribeca will be...interesting? Because on one hand, the McReedus panel could be very reassuring, but 201 spoilers that will inevitably leak could be polarizing again depending on what Zabel and Nicotero did with it, and if that happens, well, I wish AMC luck trying to promote the rest of the season.

Thanks for reaching out. Sorry this probably isn't the answer you were looking for.

[sexyandhedonistic]

A few things:

I finally made a main blog so I now have a face from which I can follow and reply from. I was considering using it and speaking to you guys from there outside of LOA related discourse the same way I used to on my first heraisgod side blog. It's the exact same user (@heraisgod).

I'm not really sure if I want to "fully" come back and continue writing posts. On a similar note, I don't know if I would like to continue answering questions on sexydreamgirl either since I feel like there are so many more blogs around aside from mine which have explained the same concepts on multiple occasions and repeating myself gets boring very quickly. In a way, I feel like my time in the community is up. I came back primarily to check up on my followers, especially the ones that stay in touch with me which is why I considered bringing heraisgod back from the dead so we can catch up and talk. For now, I'm testing out the waters and allowing you guys to let me know what you think and how you feel about the matter, but as of right now I'm on the fence slightly gravitating towards not posting.

If I did continue being active regardless of the blog I might consider picking a day of the week to be active so we can speak and if I did choose to write posts or answer questions I'd consider set up a queue instead of being active (depending on which you guys prefer). Again, this is supposing I do decide to keep posting about the law of assumption.

Anyway, I'd like to hear what you guys think about this.

[the-owl-tree]

meowdy! my name is deer (they/it). this is my xenofiction rambling blog with a heavy focus on battle cats. i enjoy being critical of things i read so if that isn't your thing, this might not be the spot for you. you can find my rambles under the tag #deer rambles. i generally rate this blog 16+ (though im not gonna go out of my way and check tbh) as more mature subject matter sometimes does arise during discussions.

i also really enjoy art! you can find stuff i've drawn under #deer scribbles. My commissions are currently closed.

other links:

twitter/x

art blog

my clangen blog

main is @fawnydoe

I get a lot of xenofiction recommendations and Tumblr’s search system is straight up ass, so I’ve compiled them into a post! Click here to read through and feel free to send suggestions :)

blog specific info under the cut

Important Documents Pertaining to Warriors:

Warrior Cats and Anti-Indigenous Writing

The Feather Issue Doc

byf

i’m very loose with tags but i do try and get the general stuff, feel free to shoot me an ask if you need something tagged

if you want me to reblog your art, feel free to tag me in it!

i like to complain about this series a lot more than praise it. i find warriors really fun to pull apart, i think it's awful and deserves every nitpick it gets.

if you send me an ask and you want it to be answered privately, please tell me

this is a WC SPOILER ZONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! currently i am only tagging spoilers for the newest wc arc, you can block the tag #asc spoilers to avoid spoilers for it!

some general requests for when sending me asks/messages:

#1 rule is always be nicies to me

please avoid personal anecdotes. i understand sometimes discussions on here veer into personal territory but i am a stranger and i don't always know how to handle responding to that.

it takes me a bit to post some asks. the longer it is, the longer it'll take me to get to it.

i might not respond at all if i don't want to deal with potential discourse and/or i just don't know how to reply to it.

sometimes this blog veers into topics outside of battle cats/xenofiction, i don't really want to discuss general discourse if i don't have to. i do not want to argue about online lgbt+ discourse, that's exhausting.

you can disagree with me, i like to hear other people's opinions. but don't be nasty about it, that's a one way ticket to get yourself booted from here. i love discussions, not people trying to rag on one another.

banned topics: nightheart, mapleshade's vengeance

here are some stories i have going going that i love to talk about:

#honey's horrible time - A work-in-progress story about a human being who is killed and reincarnated into a warrior cats rip-off series where she possesses the body of one of the minor antagonists in the book. All information on this story is available in this masterlist.

#poolverse - An nextgen AU revolving around an alternate AVOS cast. It's set in the aftermath of a very different OotS where the Clans decide to abolish the borders and attempt to live peacefully...to mixed results. This is a soft reboot of my older "new generation au"!

#fallen stars au - An alternate universe for The Darkest Hour in which Firestar must flee the forest with friends. All information on the story + archived art from the former ask blog can be found here.

#ask bean - my wc oc named bean who becomes the clan's mediator after the events of squirrelflight's hope. i used to run an ask blog for her but i didn't have the energy to maintain it. you can see the old asks here.

[catgirl-catboy]

So. You've just heard the words "proship" and "anti" for the first time. Or maybe you've been hearing them for a while, and you decided to look up what they mean. Or maybe you've just stumbled upon this post.

A quick disclaimer! I, the person that wrote this post, am a proshipper. However, I will try to present both arguments from an objective and unbiased point of view. However, there may be small mistakes from the antiship side of things, of which I am sorry. This post was made in good faith to help people who have never heard of this discourse before. If you're an anti and would like to give your two cents about my section on antis, feel free!

I have also linked several sources in the replies section, since links tend to fuck with the tumblr search engine. Feel free to look into those if you'd like to read more on the subject. (and please do before trying to correct this post, since there's a lot of misinformation going around on the subject!)

Antishipping:

Since the term antishipping originated before the term proshipping (even if the proship ideology existed first), it seems like a good place to start.

Antishipping is the belief that certain types of fandom content reflect badly on the people that create and consume it. Antishippers believe that if you interact with that content enough, your real-life morals get loosened, and you are more likely to want to commit the crimes depicted in said content.

Some antishippers think that people that already have a desire to commit said crimes are more likely to enjoy content depicting those crimes, and thus liking that content is a "red flag". I've seen both arguments about equally.

What do I mean by said content? You'll get a slightly different definition from anti to anti, but common targets of this logic include:Ships with a large age gap. Ships that have one character under the age of adulthood, and one over. Incestuous ships. Ships between real people like celebrities. Ships deemed racist/sexist/ableist/homophobic/transphobic by the fandom. Abusive ships. One thing I've noticed about antis is how sex and romance focused they seem to be. They rarely apply the same logic to fics depicting crimes such as assault and murder, despite those also being just as illegal IRL.

Proshipping: If antishipping is the belief that certain ships reflect badly about your character, proshipping is the belief that it does not.

There are a lot of misconceptions about the word proship, so allow me to do a quick tangent about what a proshipper is not:

Proship is not short for problematic ship. The term proship was named to oppose the pre-existing anti ship. It is pro as in for.

Proship is not a synonym for pedophile. Proship is all about what you think is okay to depict in fiction, not your real life sexual preferences. For instance, the proshipper writing this is asexual and incapable of having a sexual interest in anyone.

Proship is not an assertion of comfort for every type of problematic ship. Quite a lot of proshippers are uncomfortable with incest and age gap ships. The only requirement to be a proshipper is that you don't think someone is a bad person for writing/reading problematic fiction.

Why do proshippers think this? There is a variety of reasons among the community, but as a general rule of thumb they try to give people the benefit of the doubt. That person who writes incest fic could be hitting on their own family. But they also could be a victim of incest and write to come to terms with what they went through. They also could be an only child that finds the idea of a big brother having a crush on them hot. Without having an honest conversation with them, we have no real way of knowing.

I won't overshare, but the main reason I enjoy abusive dynamics in fiction is because I was abused in the past. I like the idea of finding catharsis in fiction, where characters that remind me of my abusers can grow and change for the better. I don't think that'll make me more likely to abuse the people close to me. I'd argue that since I understand what behaviors are abusive better, I'm actually less likely! (I had to unlearn a lot of shit.)

Problems with the antiship community:

A lot of antishippers harass people that make content for ships they dislike. Despite antishippers being upset at the perceived normalization that problematic ships might cause, a lot of them normalize using violent language to people they disagree with. A lot of antishippers are comfortable dehumanizing proshippers and have little compassion. Despite a lot of antis calling for better trigger tagging of fictional content, they rarely trigger tag their violent threats to people that make content they are morally opposed to.

A lot of antis overuse words like "pedophile" and "Child Porn" (tangent: the proper terminology for pictures of a (real, IRL) minor is CSEM or Child Sexual Exploitation Material. It is never porn.) in situations when they don't actually apply, creating alarm fatigue and difficulty communicating when an actual crime is being committed. Governments have asked antis specifically to stop clogging up their hotlines with reports of porn of fictional characters.

A small but dangerous subsection of antis will knowingly expose NSFW content to minors to show them what proshippers are creating. This is an IRL crime, and should be reported if you ever encounter it.

A lot of antishippers strech the definition of problematic to include ships they personally dislike. I have seen anti shippers bashing the relationship between a 14 y/o character and a 16 y/o character, despite that not being much of an age gap at all. This causes the rise of excuses like "sibling coding" (the implication that two characters that are not biologically related or are adopted siblings are siblings for found family reasons, and can't be shipped.)

Antishippers frequently call for problematic content to "remain out of the main tags", which would seem a logical request at first. They do not wish to know such content is being created. However, this makes it harder for the people not in the fandom to avoid seeing said content. Some people have fandom tags blocked for trigger reasons, and following the antis advice of not putting things in the main tags can put those people in danger. (Most proshippers put multiple trigger warnings on their content for people to search for and filter out.)

There is a lot of ableism in the antiship community, with two of their frequently used insults being "get help" and "proship freaks". Many antis frequently expect users who want to interact with them to check a "carrd" (an external website where they keep lists of who they do and don't want to see on their blog.) which can frequently be eyescorching and hard to read for people with visual sensitivities.

A lot of antishippers overshare information about themselves to dangerous levels. It is common for them to share their names, exact ages, and triggers. This could be used to hurt them by malicious trolls, and is not a good idea.

Instead of creating new websites where the rules cater to them, antis will try to bend (or just) the rules of existing websites that are more in line with the proship ideology. Despite believing these websites lower the moral character of everyone that uses them, the willingly choose to use them anyway.

Problems with the proship community:

(this is by far the section I am the least confident in writing, so if you would like to reblog this with problems about the proship community I did not mention, I will not be upset. I try to make this post as objective as humanly possible.)

Many critics of the proship community describe it as an "echo chamber", and there is some truth to that. There is a lot of pressure to be comfortable with the darkest of problematic ships, else you may get accused of not being a real proshipper.

There is also overlap between the proship community and several communities like consang, radqueer and transid. You have to do your research on who you follow if you (understandably) wish to avoid those communities.

There is a lot of hostility to "neutrals" of this discourse from the proship community. (Personally, I don't think neutrals exist. Either fiction makes you worse, or it doesn't. Its a binary issue. That being said, ID as neutral to this if you want, I won't stop you.)

This could either be a bug or a feature depending on who you ask, but I notice a tendency to prefer ship positivity over nuanced discussion or talk about dynamics/headcanons.

Quite a lot of proshippers have victim complexes (probably due to all of the suicide baiting) and will take any disagreement with them in the worst possible light.