#Selflessness vs selfishness

[disneybrandautism]

finn’s sander sides thoughts of the day:

In “putting others first - selfishness vs. selflessness redux” everyone gets mad at roman for being mean and not trusting deceit, but in the first selfishness vs. selflessness everyone was mad at roman for trusting deceit.

roman gets mad that everyone took deceits side over his and i feel like he’s valid. sure was roman mean for making fun of deceits name? yeah a little.

but i feel like it’s also okay for roman to be mad that he was always told he had to be selfless then someone nobody trusts comes along and says he’s allowed to be selfish and he’s just expected to trust that!??

he trusted patton and patton destroys that in one episode. then roman is just not allowed to be mad??? also the comment “roman if remus didn’t have a mustache i wouldn’t be sure who the evil twin is,” and NOBODY standing up for roman.

this means that roman sunk down thinking patton and thomas agree. which honestly we are never told contrary.

again patton asked him to go back on everything he was taught abt selflessness and he was supposed to do that in like what? 30 minutes??? in conclusion the way roman is treated is incredibly unfair in s vs. s redux and he doesn’t deserve all the hate he got.

[sanderspurplehair]

Attending my dads wedding this weekend… all I can think of is the svsr episode whenever weddings are mentioned-

[savesavva]

rights and wrongs; shoulds and shouldn'ts

[criticalrolo]

I’m so normal about dnd. It’s so normal to have a full dissection of my character’s psychology and motivations ready to go at any moment

[rambling-prince-thoughts]

rewatching selfishness vs selflessness for the 100th time in a row and there’s this one detail that i always notice. it hurts like a bitch every time i see it too.

in the scene where janus is questioning logan, he obviously takes advantage of the fact that logan had been forgotten by thomas and the rest of the sides when they all entered the courtroom scenario in the first place. logan was (rightfully and obviously) shocked to notice that they were enacting the scenario without him, logic, the person who would undoubtedly be the most excited to do so and would have the most knowledge about courtroom procedures.

but there is the moment where he says that there’s “always room for him” and janus responds with, “i know, that’s what i said! but patton insisted we leave you alone” and that moment sticks with me whenever i watch this episode.

logan immediately turns to look at patton with a surprised, hurt look on his face because he can’t believe that patton would say something like that about him. it’s true that him and patton don’t usually see eye to eye on things, but patton does value his input and they resolved most of their issues during the earlier stages of the sanders sides videos (although not completely).

i find that interesting because whenever janus targets logan, he always makes it a point to draw attention to the fact that logan isn’t very well liked, mostly because he embodies logic and claims not to feel anything, unlike the rest of the sides (who as thomas once put it, are too zany or relatable). he even calls out logan for this during the events of svs.

his “oh, of course you don’t” is dripping with sarcasm and janus is the lord of the lies, he would know when someone is lying. keeping that aside, it was obvious that a few minutes ago, janus’ lie about patton disregarding logan’s usefulness during the courtroom scenario hurt logan, so much so that it was visible on his face. roman’s comment of “did you see the look on his face?” was a nod to that.

so logan, in saying that he doesn’t feel anything, is lying about his own feelings.

additionally, it’s not the first time janus has used patton specifically to counteract logan and lie to him. the whole episode of “can LYING be good?” featured janus, disguised as patton, playing to logan’s likings via patton’s charm. it was evident from the first minute that logan appeared onscreen.

after that, he simply had patton reference famous philosophers, and logan clearly admired that because he seemed to be quite happy about it, even though virgil immediately became suspicious.

janus picked up on the fact that logan didn’t believe that patton would ever try to hurt him on purpose, and at least patton wouldn’t exclude him from things. that patton would listen to him. which makes it all the more sad that in svs redux, when logan said that philosophers would not agree with patton (after patton asked for his input), patton took the easy way out and pulled logan out of the situation.

it’s also why logan ignored patton when he tried to offer comfort after logan reappeared and said “i’m just here to deliver one last fact, then i will do you all a favour and spare you my company.” in fact, he ended up yelling over patton so he could get his point across and actually be heard.

i love logan and patton’s duo, and i really hope they resolve this during logan’s arc. in the meantime, sending love to our logical boy because he needs it.

(an unofficial part two to this post is now up, delving a little more into logan and patton’s relationship. i’ve hyperfixated on the glasses gays at this point /hj)

[loganslowdown4]

This has been bugging me for a long time but I finally figured out the foreshadowing here—

It explains that Roman didn’t leave just because he felt ganged up on, betrayed or made fun of in SvS Redux—

He left mostly because he felt guilty. He feels like he didn’t do his job well enough—

I think this is probably not a new revelation but I think banter about it gets buried in the idea that no one seems to be on Roman’s side about his feelings towards Janus, or about Patton’s sudden ‘allegiance change’. I think those are fair points but I also think that Roman is heavily disappointed in himself for letting c!Thomas get so far off the rails that Thomas starts choosing alternate (less honourable) approaches to his decision-making (Janus). This is why Roman mentions his ‘mistakes’ in Flirting With Social Anxiety.

Also this is why Virgil is pissed about Thomas’ decisions in that video too. Thomas can’t keep lying to begin a new relationship with a new guy. Fortunately however, c!Thomas is spared having make an excuse (a lie) to approach Nico, because Nico approaches him instead.

Anyway, Roman needs a genuine win soon or I’m gonna explode 😃❤️

Thanks for reading! 😄

[earlgodwin]

THE BORGIA BROTHERS + putting the family's interest above their sister's concerns

"Everything I do is for the family."

[let-roman-bite-someone]

idk how to explain it but these two scenes have the same energy but on opposite sides of a spectrum

[confused-wanderer]

Screaming because I’m rewatching Sanders sides and in the episode “Growing Up” where everyone ignores and belittles Patton, Roman quite literally tells him: “Perhaps it’s best you just sit in to knowing the difference between right and wrong, and leaving the rest upto us.”

I am SCREAMING

Because in Selfishness versus Selflessness and the whole fucking mess that that was, from the beginning Patton is already torn becuase he knows what Thomas wants even if he doesn’t want to admit it to himself. He’s telling Thomas he should go to the wedding even though both of them know what he really should do.

Patton literally goes against himself to help Thomas, because it was more important that Thomas doesn’t fall apart than his own voice screaming at him with every fibre of his body that this was wrong. That’s why he was so off at the trial, and barely had any heart into what he wanted to say. He was doing it out of obligation.

So he does what Roman told him in the earlier episodes, and they’re in a court setting! Where rights and wrongs are the only things discussed! So he’s going against himself, he’s trying to only stick to rights and wrongs to help everyone out, hoping if he did a good job everything would work out and only realises at the end that everything still went so fucking wrong and he was the cause of it even if he was trying to make everyone happy.

Plus his repression and self-hatred only fulled after the Intrusive Thoughts episodes - Patton is bearing the most burden on himself because of everything, arguably as much if not more than Roman.

Someone please give him a hug and two cookies🍪🍪

[thermodynamic-comedian]

high as fuck outside in the snow explaining how patton and janus are narrative foils

[phantomhunt]

After taking a mental health break from social media, we're backkk!!!

[image ID: a teenager cosplaying Patton Sanders from the series Sanders Sides, their makeup is black freckles, cyan eyeshadow, and a cyan heart on their cheek, they're also wearing rainbow fingerless gloves and have frog eyes on their head. End ID]

[emoprincey]

Roman: Are you trying to seduce me?

Janus: No, why?

Janus: Is it working?

[twstjam]

ALRIGHT OKAY since so many of you guys really seemed to like that "Yuu gets dared to ask out Malleus but ends up hanging out with their bestie Tsunotarou who's TOTALLY a completely different person" prompt I came up with I DO plan to write it buuuuuut...

A Malleyuu swap au... how would that work...

There's so many ways we can go with this I think. We could either swap their roles or personalities. AND THEN because I am obsessive over details there's the question of wtf the other characters are...

OR—AND MY BRAIN JUST MADE THIS UP AS I WROTE THAT OTHER THING—

au where everyone else is normal (by this I mean magicless) but Yuu is STILL the odd one out because they're the only person with magic somehow. This is seen as either a Very Normal or Very Weird thing (that they have to keep secret) and I just think there's so much potential for Silliness and Shenanigans for either of these.

I GOT OFF-TRACK anyways back to the initial swapped Malleyuu idea I just got this image of Malleus being that Lilo and Stitch meme like "Please send me the nicest angel you have" and then here comes mega powerful Yuu (possibly still from another world) like "where the FUCK am I WHERE are the monsters?!"

A personality swap could also be fun though like. Can you IMAGINE Malleus being competent at socializing and is seen as cool and helpful because he's a prince who's good at almost everything so everyone likes him?? Meanwhile Yuu is the magicless outcast who's only known as Crowley's little errand boy(/gn)??? ...Now that I've written it down it sounds so wrong 😭

[beauty-and-passion]

Selfishness v. Selflessness: Deceit’s reasons

And then, we finally reached the last episode of Sanders Sides.

Or what was the last official episode, until recently Mr. Sanders finally realized that hey, the Asides are following the main plot, maybe it’s time to consider them official episodes and not Asides.

And so, he changed the titles. If you check FWSA and DWIT now, you will find that their names are not followed by the title “Sanders Asides” anymore, but “Sanders Sides”.

While the infamous plushie episode which angered everyone because it was nothing more than an ad, magically became and Aside episode:

What can I say? Better late than ever, Mr. Sanders. This wouldn’t have happened at all if you planned everything from the start, you know that, right?

Oh, and in case you haven’t noticed: maybe you should also take FWSA and DWIT away from the Sanders Asides playlist. You know, just to keep it organized.

But let’s come back to Selfishness v. Selflessness: this was the first episode I ever wrote about - even if at the time it wasn’t a full analysis, but rather just some random, scattered thoughts. And they weren’t enough, because there is still a lot of stuff to talk about! Hence why, this post was needed.

This post will clarify a couple things I previously talked about, starting from the whole Wroammin thing which (sadly) turned out to be wrong. It can even be considered part of a triptych: THIS is the first part, THIS is the second one and the post you’re reading is the third and final part. Hope you will enjoy it and, as always, if you have anything else to add feel free to do it.

_______________________________

Why did Deceit appear?

[Logan]: -pops up- Eh... Speaking for someone is a disagreeable practice, Patton. If Thomas would rather go to the wedding, then I, the brilliant Logan, think we should hear it straight from the horse's mouth. Thomas, the floor is yours. Wedding or callback?

My gosh, this man isn’t even trying. First, he drops a character lie (“I, the brilliant Logan”) which is the exact same kind of lie he used the first time. Then he uses two idioms in a row. And scolds Patton in the meantime (“Speaking for someone is a disagreeable practice, Patton”).

I suppose he just wanted to appear, but he couldn’t do it without being ✨ dramatique ✨

But now your question could be: why did he appear? Well, as I anticipated in the analysis of CLBG, Mr. Sanders explained in a tweet that Character!Thomas’ relationship with Lee and Mary Lee is as strong as the one with Joan. Once again, a very strong relationship is at risk. And, this time, there’s also an event that might bring a major change in Thomas’ life. Everything basically requested Deceit’s presence.

_______________________________

The dark sides are all anime tsundere girls

[Deceit]: Virgil's very right. You can't trust me! It's not like I'm trying to look out for you or anything.

[Anxiety]: He thinks he’s so great. Well, he is not! Look, I’m just trying to look out for him. (Taking on ANXIETY)

Okay, jeez, fine, you definitely don’t know each other and you’re definitely not father and son. That’s all a huge coincidence, I surely believe that.

Now I can’t wait to see Orange saying: “it’s not like I’m looking out for you, baka!” to Thomas, then I can close everything and disappear forever 😂

_______________________________

“He's against Nazis”

[Thomas]: ... Alright, he can stay. [Patton]: Hm? [Roman]: -incredulous laughter- Ah, wait, seriously? [Thomas]: Sounds like he's against Nazis, so... Why not hear him out? You know? [Virgil]: That... cannot be where the bar is!

I just love this part too much and it cracks me up everything. Remember, kids: you can be a snek, but if you’re against nazis, then everything is okay. I can’t wait for the moment Thomas will try to send Remus and Orange away, only for them to reply that, hey, they’re against Nazis too, so they deserve to stay! And Thomas will let them stay.

And then we will reach the lowest bar in the world and everything will be perfect.

_______________________________

“Social engagement”

[Deceit]: Well, the bar for skipping an important opportunity should be higher than a... social engagement. [Patton]: Come on, a wedding is more than just a social engagement! [Virgil]: He knows that.

Of course he knows that, he bears the name of a god who presides over weddings. Which yes, it’s hilarious and I love it.

_______________________________

Same area of expertise

[Patton]: What is this wacky talk? I- You don't mean any of this. I'm your morality, I wouldn't be here if you did! [Thomas]: Right, right. Yeah, you're right. I- I don't mean that. [Patton]: And Roman, I thought you fought for honor! Why are you pushing Thomas to be dishonest? 

Deceit knows what Thomas truly wants and it’s to go to the wedding. However, two sentences from Patton were enough to make him understand that:

Patton is the one who is truly in charge

Patton’s ideas are strong enough to influence Thomas

Thomas could change his mind because of them

Roman desperately wants to go to the wedding

Roman could change his mind because of Patton

And so, Deceit intervenes and makes Patton aware of something: sure his presence means Thomas still thinks about his morals… but he’s not the only one here:

[Deceit]: Do you know who else is here? Me! So perhaps, Thomas... isn't so innocent. [Patton]: Well... Nobody's perfect... Except for Thomas! He loves his friends! [Deceit]: You can defend him all you like... But you can't change the facts. Is Thomas an innocent little lamb? Let's let them be the judge of that.

And with this, Deceit:

proved he’s Thomas’ Side and not a random guy. He is a Side, just like all of them and he won’t go anywhere.

brought up the problem that will be solved in POF - i.e. Patton’s view of Thomas as a perfect, innocent boy.

moved the entire problem to a higher, moral level. This isn’t just a “choosing wedding or callback” problem anymore: this is Deceit’s way to prove Thomas’ fallibility and humanity.

And he wants to prove it to Patton. And if Thomas is confused about all of this, Patton is not:

[Thomas]: Um, I'm a little confused as to what this is all about. [Patton]: Basically, Deceit is trying to prove that you care more about yourself than your friends, but don't worry, kiddo, we'll show him.

Again: the supposedly stupid guy immediately understood what Deceit was trying to prove and followed him in his reasoning. Because, in case it wasn’t clear enough, these two work in the same area of expertise.

And if you need another confirmation that these two are a lot more similar than it seems:

[Deceit]: He's clearly manipulating the witness into doing what he thinks is best. Wait a minute. Who was it that was called a Scooby-Doo villain for doing the exact same thing? Oh, yeah! It was me... disguised as Patton. 

So not only Deceit confirmed Patton isn’t perfect, but they are similar enough, he can do what Patton does and there would be no difference.

These two work in the same field and they’ve been hinting it here all the time, before clearly stating it in POF.

_______________________________

Multiple arms

I forgot about this detail and thought that the multiple arms thing Remus brought up was a metaphor. Well… maybe it wasn’t. Maybe the noodle snek really has six arms.

This goddamn man, he really has one arm for each Side. And he probably uses them to smack the Sides in the head/stop them from doing something stupid. I love him.

_______________________________

An attempt at maturity

[Thomas]: And that's what you stand for. Truth. [Patton]: But I don't know what's true at this point. I just know what I want to be true. I want to believe you're an honest person... but... Deceit's right! He's here... and that means something. [Thomas]: Are you serious? I- I've been following your lead this whole time. I'm in the dark here, Patton, and I need something to light my way! [Patton]: I'm sorry... b-but... I don't know the way. [Thomas]: I don't want to be a bad person. [Patton]: Okay, then I'll do whatever I can to make sure you're not.

Do you know what is this? This is the moment that led to POF.

Patton was getting Deceit’s message. He was starting to understand Thomas isn’t perfect. He even admitted he didn’t know the answer.

But Thomas was too scared, too afraid of being seen as a bad person. And so, Patton had a choice: to side with Deceit, accept that his morals have been too extreme and guide Thomas by giving him a more mature, multifaceted understanding… or doing POF:

[Patton]: Like I told you before, sometimes... I don't know the way. But... When I told you that, you were so scared. I couldn't bear it. So I said to myself... "Alright, Patton. Thomas needs you. You're responsible for his morality. You can never not have an answer for him." And then I promised you I'd keep fighting. Unfortunately... I learned the hard way that... giving too simple of answers to complicated questions... can do more harm than good.

_______________________________

Virgil’s interrogation

[Deceit]: -chuckles- Very well. As Thomas' anxiety, do you have any relevant information about his norepinephrine levels in regards to these two conflicting commitments?

I’m pretty sure someone already said something about this hormone back when the episode came out, but I don’t remember - also, I found this very interesting paragraph from Wikipedia I would like to share:

“The general function of norepinephrine is to mobilize the brain and body for action. Norepinephrine release is lowest during sleep, rises during wakefulness, and reaches much higher levels during situations of stress or danger, in the so-called fight-or-flight response. In the brain, norepinephrine increases arousal and alertness, promotes vigilance, enhances formation and retrieval of memory, and focuses attention; it also increases restlessness and anxiety.”

As you can see, Virgil’s two main functions are both involved in this hormone. And norepinephrine has a spike during stressful situations - like, you know, choosing between a callback or a wedding.

But the mention of this particular hormone implies something else. Something very important, that will connect with the second part of this conversation.

Deceit mentioned an incredibly specific hormone and, by doing that, he proved how well he knows Virgil. He doesn’t know just his roles, but even the effects he has on a chemical level. It’s a bit like the difference between knowing your colleague from their job and knowing how many miles they can run on the weekends. It implies a much closer relationship.

Also, since he asked how high the levels of norepinephrine are, that means he knows Virgil is stressed. He knows this situation makes him more anxious and, with his questions, he wants to prove to Virgil (and to everyone else) that he is anxious because he knows what Thomas wants: to skip the wedding and go to the callback.

[Virgil]: I think it's ridiculous that anyone is entertaining any of this. Guys, he's a liar. You literally know him as Deceit. [Deceit]: Glass houses, Virgil. You yourself said that you are not a beacon of truth.

The famous “You literally know him as Deceit” line is a clear reply to Deceit’s question about norepinephrine. It’s Virgil’s way to say that yes, he knows him extremely well too. The others “know him as Deceit”, but he knows Deceit for who he is.

And, okay, now that’s probably me looking too much into things again, but the way Deceit replied by saying that he’s not always right and shaking his finger… it’s almost like a warning. A (maybe unconscious) way to say to Virgil to not reveal more, because he’s not always right.

And to further prove his point, he proceeds with a subtle threat:

[Deceit]: Oh, so you've never been reluctant to share anything with the group, then? [Virgil]: Don't. [Deceit]: What? I just meant your name. [Virgil]: Don't! [Deceit]: Maybe that's why it's so easy for you to recognize me for what I am. Like I said before... it takes a liar to know a liar.

And with that, Deceit proved to Virgil that:

He knows what he’s hiding from the group (i.e. that he was one of the Others)

He knows him extremely well, because he knows Virgil doesn’t want to talk about it yet

He has the upper hand, because if Virgil says something, he can immediately drop his secret and screw Virgil’s position in Thomas’ eyes.

_______________________________

An unexpected help

So, after threatening his son and showing how much of a villain Deceit can be, what does Patton do?

He pushes him to show his soft side, by forcing him to reveal his agenda.

[Patton]: You... always seem to have some... bigger plan. Some... agenda. [Deceit]: Doesn't everyone? [Patton]: Well, not everyone is so secretive... about theirs. [Deceit]: Everything has a purpose, and sometimes fulfilling your purpose requires keeping things close to the chest. [Patton]: Well, you're under oath, which I think means you gotta tell us. Why the courtroom scenario? Why pick a setting where... uh, the truth comes to hang out?

As soon as Patton had the chance to ask him a question, he immediately ignored the wedding/callback thing and went straight to the point. And it makes sense, because the point of their conversation is a bit more important than a single choice.

Patton wants to know what this Side is trying to do. And when Deceit brought the conversation to a higher level by talking about society, Patton brought him back to the main topic: Thomas. What does Deceit want to do with Thomas?

And by forcing him to be a little more honest, Patton helped him. He helped Deceit to drop some of his convoluted plans, to clearly say he cares about Thomas.

[Patton]: Okay... What does any of this have to do with Thomas? [Deceit]: I don't want Thomas to be disadvantaged in a world where you can die for not following the laws made in the name of a lie.

That’s why I always say Patton is incredibly mature. He’s working against Deceit, they are literally against each other in this courtroom scenario… and yet, he helped him. He gave him a chance to show his soft side, to prove he’s not a bad guy. And to tell how useful he can be! A bit like “an inner coach that acts with the intention of self-preservation”, as Patton said in CLBG.

_______________________________

Always and forever on Thomas' side

[Deceit]: Look, the point is, Thomas is an unconscious egoist and this dilemma is actually between something that serves him versus something else that serves him. Between looking and feeling like a good friend and a dream come true. If Thomas wanted to be seen as a good friend more than he wanted the role of a lifetime, well then I'm all for that. But I just don't buy it.

This part is extremely interesting, because Deceit said both choices are something Thomas wants. From one side, there’s personal gratification (Thomas wanting to be a good friend), from the other there’s personal fulfillment (Thomas doing something he loves). They are both selfish wants, in a way. So, if all Deceit cared about were selfish wants, he would have no problem with them. This whole courtroom scenario wouldn’t take place at all.

Be he has a problem because he wants what Thomas wants. And since Thomas is denying his want to do a different thing… well, that required Deceit’s intervention. As he said: if Thomas wanted to go to the wedding, he would’ve accepted that choice. He doesn’t care about Lee’s feelings, just like he didn’t care about Joan’s feelings in CLBG. The only feelings that matter for Deceit are Thomas’.

And only when Thomas finally admits his want, Deceit is satisfied.

[Thomas]: Fine! I want to go to the callback! I was planning on playing Word Crush on my phone during the wedding ceremony to keep my mind off the fact that I'm single. I don't want to go! I'm afraid to go. And on top of that, a dream come true fell into my lap scheduled on the same day. Anyone would want to go to the callback! So, yeah. I tried to force myself to forget about the wedding, and now I want to lie to my friends, so they don't hate me for not supporting them. I'm a liar. I'm a liar.

Deceit put on a whole courtroom, just to force Thomas to be more honest. This alone would be enough to prove he’s not just the embodiment of lies, but I suppose the correlation “snek = liar” was stronger than 200 proofs, so Roman did the wrong thing and made a choice no one wanted.

_______________________________

A mature Side

[Roman]: It's my sworn duty to help Thomas achieve his hopes and dreams. But Thomas wouldn't dream of attaining his hopes through deceitful means. [Deceit]: But that's not true! [Virgil]: And you're a beacon of truth? [Deceit]: Oh, did I say that? I missed the part where I said that.

Please let’s focus on Deceit’s words because they are very, very interesting.

1) Deceit openly admitted his means weren’t deceitful. Just like when he asked Thomas, during the courtroom if he was “the snake come to trick you into sinning, or have you had your mind made up since the moment you received the news about the callback?”. Deceit had no intention of deceiving Thomas, from the first moment he appeared.

2) Deceit is a very mature Side. I talked about it during my POF analysis part 3, when he openly recognized his own mistakes. Here he openly admits what Thomas is having trouble admitting: that he’s not perfect. He never said he was. He never pretended to carry the truth. Even if he’s 100% right here, he still admits he’s flawed. He and Patton are truly the most mature Sides here.

_______________________________

Caring and criminal

During the episode, he said that “fulfilling your purpose requires keeping things close to the chest”. And where did he keep his logo? On his chest. Even better, on his heart. What else does he have to do, to prove how deeply he loves and cares about Thomas? This man is the most caring Side.

[Deceit]: I'm not going anywhere. And there are smarter ways to get people to do what you want, anyway.

Uh, so “smarter ways to get people to do what you want” means “let’s release Remus”?

You know what? That really was a smarter way. With one decision, he introduced Remus, proved he’s harmless and even useful, showed Thomas that ignoring his needs leads to an increment of his intrusive thoughts and confirmed that he was right and Thomas should’ve listened to him.

This man is a criminal and I love him.

_______________________________

Why Logan can’t work in the moral area

[Logan]: It's still difficult to believe that my participation was as restricted as it was. It was Deceit's doing, I'm sure. I would have been a more than worthy foil. Unlike him, I'm skeptical about whether a society could function without some sort of system of laws by which all of its citizens abide.

Oh Logan, you huge nerd. I love you, but this is why you don’t work in Deceit’s and Patton’s same area of expertise.

Deceit’s whole monologue about society wasn’t practical, but moral. He didn’t say “we should surrender to anarchy”, nor presented a point about why rules are bad: he said society is a concept and we all collectively choose to believe this concept was true. He talked about how scary the concept of society is. And he clearly saw it on a moral level, not a practical one.

And yes, we can add this to the list of reasons why Logan was pushed in the back: just imagine if, instead of talking with Patton, the other moral side, who was incredibly quick to get his points and ask him about his agenda, we got Logan: a neutral Side, more interested to practical things than metaphorical/moral ones. Deceit would’ve spent most of the time rephrasing everything and the conversation would’ve been just about this choice, rather than a multilayered conversation about selfishness, selflessness, Thomas’ fallibility, and choices in general.

Deceit needed Patton as interlocutor and he needed to remove the cold, straight logic from a conversation that was mostly about morals and emotions: two areas Logan is not an expert about - as he will admit in POF.

[Logan]: Well, determining what feels right or wrong for you isn't really my area of expertise.

_______________________________

Truly taking care aka the wedding from Lee and Mary Lee’s perspective

[Patton]: Well, here's the thing, kiddo. People hurt all the time. By going to the wedding, you're making sure that two of your friends aren't hurt by the absence of someone they really care about.

Okay, time to put the most cynical part of me here.

Patton’s words are cute and nice and everything… but seriously. Come on.

Just imagine being the bride or the groom: you spent the previous days, weeks and months organizing for this event. Locations, entertainment, ceremony and everything. Then the day comes and you want to be 200% sure everything goes as smoothly as planned. You have people coming to ask you about this or that detail. You have to be sure your dress/make-up is okay, your best men/bridesmaids are okay, the photograph is here, the meal is good, the place is ready, the staff is preparared.

And, when it’s time, you have the ceremony, the people to greet, photos to take, meals, events, dances and so on.

Do you really, REALLY think that Lee and Mary Lee would be so devastated by Thomas’ absence? I’ve never been married, but I really doubt that one missing guest (and not a best man or a bridesmaid or another important guest: just a guest) would have made them feel so devastated. Weddings are huge, stressful events, a ton of things happen and the newlyweds barely have time to eat, let alone feel devastated by a missing guest.

And I would like to repeat that: a guest. Thomas didn’t play any important role. He wasn’t supposed to be Lee’s best man or anything else. He was just a guest.

Do you know what it would’ve happened, if Thomas skipped the wedding? That Lee and Mary Lee would’ve thought “Oh, Thomas didn’t come”, to completely forget about it two seconds later, because someone else would’ve called them to do something else.

And no, going anyway isn’t a question of empathy, but of naiveness - and egoism too. Thomas himself proved it in POF, when he showed his frustration, because he wanted a little more than a “hello”. He literally wanted them to throw him a party, just for coming! Who would ever think the newlyweds would give a damn about them, on such a huge day? No one, except for a very egoistical, naive person: egoistical enough to think they are the only one who matters, naive enough to think the bride and the groom have time to do a party for them. That’s childish, immature and very selfish, not empathetic.

Do you want to know what Character!Thomas could’ve done, if he wanted to show some empathy? Skip the wedding.

Think about it. What would’ve been better? Thomas moping around and not enjoying himself, thus ruining the party for everyone else… or Thomas not appearing at all and letting everyone enjoy the party? Which choice is the most empathetic? Call me a bad person, but I think the second one would’ve been a better way to care about other people’s feelings.

Also because Lee and Mary Lee noticed it:

[Lee]: Really? 'Cause you're sitting alone at the reception.

And, at least to me, that’s way worse than not attending it at all. Thomas was such a buzz kill, he ruined the party for the bridal couple too. That’s literally the most selfish, bad thing he could’ve done. And only because he didn’t want to listen to the snake boy.

This event deserved to leave strong consequences. And POF is proof of how huge the impact was on Thomas’ life and how deeply things will change from now on.

( Support me on Ko-fi )

_______________________________

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[pupperish]

If I had a nickel for every time a YouTuber I like rented out a whole ass court room for a video that included a judge dressed in red with no fucking clue what he was doing and a lawyer flirting with said judge I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice

[dikdikpronouncedxylophone]

Janus: I can make my case like an adult.

Janus: First things first, fuck the defendant and fuck his family too. Secondly,