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bl00dlight · 2 months

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Since we've seen the leaks already, what do you think this, and the season as a whole, says about Aemond's character? I really don't want to see him as a villain or someone who's inherently bad, I don't want to think of him as someone who doesn't care about other people besides himself; but some of those comments I see from other people are a little discouraging. What do you think of it/of him?

This is an ask I've thought ALOT about.

I think ultimately- yes Aemond is a villain. But I don't think he is INHERENTLY bad. Unfortunately alot of people online legitmately have no ability to properly analyse characters. That's not saying I'M the best at it, but I've noticed how Aemond's arc has gone over most people's heads. Which is partially the writers fault.

So - basically, yes Aemond is villainous, but he wasn't born that way. He is essentially the product of his environment, I'm gonna break this down into the leaks and his overall arc so far.

This is going to be alot. Buckle in.

LEAKS -

I'm hoping there are more scenes between Helaena and Aemond to give context to their reltionship. But personally, there is SO MUCH between them which, feels like it's gone unexplored and is coming to a head very suddenly?

First of all, Aemonds actions in Helaena's chambers is the result of two things

SCENE 1) Fear, he is terrified about the fact the Blacks have a FUCK load of dragons now. Aemond has just been confronted with the very possible reality, he may indeed be fucked. He's spent his entire life building this shield mentally and physically - Vhagar is apart of that shield. As far as he was aware, nothing could touch him, no one could stop him and so far - he's been right. The whole reason why the Blacks haven't bothered using their Dragons to attack King's Landing is the fact that Vhagar would fucking destroy them.

Blacks

Greens.

And THEN once Daemon fucks off and Rhaneys dies?

So... basically so far? Yea, Aemond was unstoppable. He was riding ALLLLL of this ego, pride, power he had suddenly been given - everything that he wanted? He finally feels respected, above fear, and most of all in control. Now I've been saying for ages Aemond is a Valyrian supremacist despite many people disagreeing. But I was right (thanks Ewan) - so compounded with the fact he thinks he is basically Targaryen Jesus. He is this scorned boy, who rose from the ashes and is taking charge. He thinks himself the embodiment of Targaryen supremacy, ultimate power without weakness.

You gotta remember he is a character driven by ego, driven by rising above fear, he doesn't ever want to feel like he did as a kid, ever again. Which is why he tries to kill Aegon? Aegon put him in a position where suddenly Aemond was right back in that place. So he reacted with the ONLY thing he KNOWS works, the only way he knows he can remind people, remind AEGON, that he is not weak, he is not dangerous- and most importantly; HE is important and won't be overlooked. And what is that? Violence.

But once he sees the Dragonseeds? He feels that fear again, the most fear he is probably ever felt. And he is suddenly faced with something that he has been avoiding his entire life; the idea that he might be fallible, that he might lose. Because it's one thing taking on a set of small dragons, who as we saw with Meleys - who was the SECOND LARGEST dragon they had - basically you can't do shit if Vhagar is after you. And on top of that, Rhaneyra is the Queen - so she is unlikely to fight. So who does that leave excluding Daemon? Jace and Baela, who ride dragons around the size of Arrax. And both of them are far less proficient at riding than Aemond.

But now? From Aemond's perspective?, once the Blacks get those Dragonseeds, the war looks like this;

Basically? Aemond is on his own. And now he is facing two VERY large dragons - one being FUCKING VERMITHOR.

So all that power Aemond once has is gone in an instant. And on top of that? Aemond who has thought himself above everyone else because he is a Targaryen, that he is SUCH a Targaryen he managed to claim VHAGAR (QUEEN VISENYA'S WAR DRAGON MIND YOU???) when he was like 12/13?

And now? Now he sees a bunch of common folk bastards on dragons. On large, old - TARGARYEN dragons who are sacred. They are literally viewed as Gods. Imagine how big of an ego blow that is for him? He has just learnt that holy fuck.... maybe I'm not as special as I think I am. But he hides that through bigotry, by claiming its an abomination of their heritage.

So when we see Aemond approach and grab Helaena - it's not done because he has no care for her, in fact his dialogue is about that very idea. He is terrified, hurt and desperate. Technically? He is right, Helaena rides a fairly large dragon. He NEEDS her. He has no other option but to try and force her? Without it they are fucked big time. And so what does he do? But Helaena DENIES HIM. She reinforces what he feels is his powerlessness, so what does he do? Resort to violence.

If you listen to what he says to Alicent, it proves he does care for Helaena. But he is so angry that Alicent has put them all in this position of weakness, that basically started this war with Rhaenyra and now? Won't even back up her own children out of fear. Aemond doesn't want Helaena to be weak, because he knows that will get her killed. He literally says it

"How am I going to protect her if she can't protect herself?"

He means that, because now there is a possibility Aemond might die. And then what? Who will protect Helaena if not herself?

People forget Aemond is deeply dysfunctional, I think it completely makes sense for him to impulsively hurt Helaena. Because his intention isn't to abuse her - it's done out of fear.

In the same way, Daemon doesn't grab Rhaenyra's neck to hurt her - it's done because he feels powerless. Parallels. None of this is to JUSTIFY their actions, violence against women is violence against women. But, people are forgetting that both Daemon and Aemond are men who feel weak, fragile, unloved - and the only way they've been taught to get what they want is through violence.

I'm hoping we get some scenes before this one with Helaemond, because it's clear Helaena doesn't fear Aemond when he comes in. She seems quite comfortable and casual telling him she is going to bed. It's not until he makes his demand do we see her retaliate. And again? To Aemond it doesn't fucking matter anymore if Helaena doesn't want to kill anyone, because if she doesn't help - they'll all die. It's a matter of life or death at this point. And that ALSO triggers Aemond big time, because if he can die? That means he is infallible. He is desperate and now the only person whom seemingly understood him to some degree, is turning away.

SCENE 2) Now on the balcony we see everything I just said, manifest itself. He approaches her, gently and he says this (let's break it down)

We share the same blood you and I.

This is not just about the fact they are siblings - this is about the fact they are dragonriders. 'The Blood of the Dragon' - it's interesting because Aemond doesn't view all his relatives in that way. He certainly doesn't view his brother or his nephews like that. Not from the way he speaks about them. As if they are below him. But not to Helaena. To him, she is the same as him - which is a recurring theme with the Targaryens, they don't view themselves as humans in the same way other Houses do. They view themselves as literally part dragon. It's a deep, ancestral connection that only THEY share, only THEY can understand.

And he wants her to know that, despite what he did - he didn't do it to harm her, but because of his blood - the same blood in her. He is sort of appealing to her understanding what drives him, it's absolutely a piss poor excuse to hurt her but basically he is saying "We are the same, you know why I did what I did. You know what my drive is, what my purpose is. You know I'm not a monster like Alicent thinks I am"

Which leads us to -

I know you wish no harm to anyone. But in a time like this? When the good of the realm depends on us?

So here he declares he knows she doesn't want to hurt others and that he doesn't want to make her do that. It's manipulative- he is basically trying to persuade her into thinking it's for the good of realm. That he wants her to fight to save herself and others. That at the moment, yea the Greens are fucked.

Basically he needs her. He needs her more than ever.

Our mother is not a dragonrider. She cannot understand that you and I have a truer call to heed.

But HERE, here is where it gets interesting and he plays his hand. Right now, Alicent and everyone else around them think he is a fucken bull blown monster. And he is desperately trying to connect with his sister - the one person who he knows hasn't seen him in that light. That's why she asks him if it was worth the price?

She has time and time again assumed the good in Aemond. And we can see that from the little moments, when she strokes his arm in the dragonpit, when she claps for him when he makes the speech at the dinner. We even know that Helaena feels safe/ feels that Aemond has good in him because Phia has literally stated that, Helaena probably feels safer with Aemond, more seen and understand. That they share an affinity.

And the two of them are also the ones who have been the MOST dutiful, they both have committed their lives to their mother. They share a greater cause.

And so Aemond? Who has felt so deeply isolated ESPECIALLY IN SEASON 2, is going to his sister, fully bare in his vunerablity, and saying "No one understands us. Alicent is a Targaryen, she doesn't get the blood we share or our desires. She doesn't get why have a destiny that is greater.)

And it's SPECIFIC, he is saying YOU AND I. He means it, that he legitmately believes he and Helaena share this destiny. In fact? We saw it when she was a kid? When he defended Helaena from Aegon, his defence was that she is their sister and going to be a Targaryen Queen who keeps their line pure.

Aemond is basically saying, "You're my equal and I need you beside me so we can take what is ours."

Come with me? To Harrenhal? We will lay waste to Daemon and his army, let our enemies see that we will answer outrage, with outrage.

Again, reinforcing what I just said. It's important to note he begins to tear up here, that he is completely vunerable before her. He feels alone, weak, and misunderstood. So he is going to her, sort of like a child goes to their mother for comfort/help. He wants her to turn around and validate him, to make him feel strong and righteous. He wants her to make HIM feel better, so even though he probably does feel guilty and remorse for hurting her. He can't express that in any other manner other than asking for her to help him. Because he doesn't know how to help other people.

This whole speech is very reminiscent, and what I ASSUME is a parallel to when Rhaenyra asks Daemon to join her against the Greens/marry her.

I need you, Uncle. I cannot face the Greens alone. Let us bind our blood...But you and I, are made of fire. We have always been meant to burn together.

It's a vunerable moment, and again it touches on the same ideas Aemonds does to Helaena. The idea that there are enemies who are undeserving of the crown, and that Rhaenyra needs DAEMON NOT just because she loves him - but because they share this deep understanding of one another. They are equals. They share the same blood and therefore it's destined that they do this together.

So? Yes. Aemond does legitmately care for Helaena- even if there is manipulation involved, he isn't manipulating her anymore than Rhaenyra did to Daemon.

It's real for Aemond, he truly believes this - and he is desperate enough to be this vunerable. We see him try to grab her arm and then pull away. There is a level of intimacy between them, or at least intimacy HE feels.

And so when she rejects his plea, when she ASSUMES THE WORST, assumes that he would burn her - its basically telling Aemond that she doesn't understand him. She isn't the same.

And we literally see Aemond begin to tear up even more. Because now he feels even more misunderstood and isolated. So again? He goes into his defences - into the only thing he knows how to do - violence.

But he doesn't hurt her. He threatens her, very softly by the way? It's not a real threat, it's another desperate power move to force her into submitting. Because he is rapidly feeling all that power, all that strength slip away from him. And now he knows that he will die and Aegon will be King again.

And instead of rectifying that his ambition will be the death of him, he tries to silence her.

Now it's hard to separate Targaryenism from the sexual/romantic element. So I mean, the people online who are really pushing the idea that Helaemond is toxic and Aemond is innately evil is really misinterpreting what's actually going on.

First of all, Helaemond was always toxic, this is GRRM's work - name one couple which isn't toxic. Even Corlys and Rhaenys were toxic let's be REALLLLL.

Second of all, sometimes... just sometimes abusive people such as Aemond - are not innately evil. Sometimes they are victims themselves who have internalised that trauma and enact abuse onto others. That doesn't justify his actions, but it gives context into actually understanding how a character like him devolves into genocide. How he goes from the boy from s1 to the man who is basically a Targaryen fascist.

And as for Helaena? Well, she isn't exactly well adjusted. And she is entirely a victim 1000%, but in that scene - we see her shut down. Instead of trying to appeal to Aemond in a way which might subdue him, she basically says every single thing which she knows will make it worse. And yea, Helaena knows it will make things worse. She too is enacting cycles of a different kind of abuse. Which is disconnection, neglect. Why? Because she has experienced the same trauma as Alicent.

Helaena is kind, she is caring but she doesn't have the tools to attempt to manage someone like Aemond. So she turns away from him. She reinforces his greatest fears, because to her? It doesn't matter. Nothing is really real. She is able to disconnect and stop caring because she knows the outcome, she knows it's meaningless so she doesn't even try. She knows that the Greens don't matter and their line dies out. So, why bother trying to soothe Aemond if for all she knows, their fate is sealed.

But to Aemond? He doesn't have the insight of the end. To him its all happening right now, it all matters and he is scared and alone. He is trying to reach out to his sister, who isn't there anymore. And he doesn't fully understand Helaena knows everything. He doesn't understand that Helaena is basically so traumatised by her own life and what she has seen- that she dosent care.

To him, she is hurting him, she is abandoning him.

Remember that these characters are like 18-20 max. They are not developmentally mature. And they are traumatised.

So as for Aemond's arc?

I think it all makes sense. However the writers have done a piss poor job this season of ACTUALLY exploring this properly. I've gone through it in previous posts how I think the writers should've handled Aemond early on in this season to build up to this. But basically, all the ingredients are there, they just haven't put them in right to get the proper pay-off. So it all feels very rushed and very sudden. And it would've been 10000x more impactful if instead of mindless Alicole scenes and Harrenhal hallucinations - and yea the brothel scenes the way they were done... ehhhhh they could've done better at establishing that.

But anyway, what we should've gotten is scenes between the Green siblings/family - that show thr dynamic which has set Aemond over the edge.

And we should have seen Aemond and Helaena earlier on which is the catalyst to him going full psycho - when finally even she turns away from him.

#hotd #aemond targaryen #house of the dragon #targaryen #got #aemond one eye #daemon targaryen #rhaneyra targaryen #daenerys targaryen #helaemond #helaena targaryen #aegon ii targaryen #alicent hightower #criston cole #hotd season 2 spoilers

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pessimisticpigeonsworld · 7 months

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If Nettles was white, she would be as popular as Lyanna, Brienne or Arya, and y’all know it.

She grew up a homeless orphan (which is why it’s so insulting when people try to act like she’s a freaking idiot who doesn’t know how to bathe herself yet she can tame a dragon🤦🏽‍♀️ Put most of the highborn women in her position and they wouldn’t survive a day in her shoes).

She’s the only known non-Valyrian dragonrider who claims a wild dragon. A prince who believes in Valyrian supremacy falls in love with her to the point where he’s willing to sacrifice his life for her. Nettles singlehandedly disproves the whole idea of Targaryen exceptionalism and their blood purity. She slowly earns a dragon’s trust by bringing him sheep, and gradually he lets her closer, and then forms the dragonrider bond and lets her fly. up until this point, nobody had tried a strategy like that before.

Nettles is self-made. She’s self-taught. She’s loved for herself. She survives a freaking war and becomes a fire goddess/witch. Who wouldn’t want her ? Who wouldn’t want to be her ? Unlike Rhaenyra and Alicent, she’s the final girl of F&B.

Once again, I don't understand where you got that I'm anti Nettles? I'm anti Nettles x Daemon, but other than that theory, I very much am a fan of Nettles as a character. I won't say that there isn't racism and unfairness that happen regarding Nettles' character (though I haven't seen it personally), because people can be really shitty. But me personally, again, I'm not anti Nettles, I just dislike certain groups of her stans.

Again, I don't deny that Nettles was a strong woman. She endured many things most characters in F&B don't and most likely survived the Dance. However, I do disagree with some of the ideas you're stating as fact.

For starters, we don't know if Nettles is non-Valyrian; that's one of the many theories surrounding her, but it's not confirmed, so stating it as fact is misleading. Just because she lacks traditional Valyrian features doesn't means she isn't a dragonseed.

Jace and his brothers don't look Valyrian but they very obviously are of Valyrian descent. Rhaenys, the queen who never was, had black hair; Duncan the son of Aegon V looked like his mother, Betha Blackwood; Aegor Rivers also had black hair; Baelor Breakspear had dark hair; Daeron son of Maekar had sandy brown hair; Rhaenys the daughter of Rhaegar had her mother, Elia Martell's features.

Moving on, Daemon's relationship with Nettles is ambiguous. We don't know if they were in a romantic relationship or if his attack on Aemond was purely to save her (though I'm sure that was part of his decision). Again, you are stating a theory you believe as fact, even though it's unconfirmed.

I'm not going to touch the whole thing of Targaryen exceptionalism, because, as I said earlier, Nettles' parentage is unconfirmed. But the whole blood purity thing still hasn't been disproven at any point of GRRM's works; they intermarried to preserve their magic blood, the magic blood still exists in ASOIAF due to the incest.

Nettles is an important character in the story of the Dance, but she isn't the "final girl" you claim she is, let alone of the whole book. There are several dragon riders who survived the Dance and thrived. Rhaena is the ancestor of the Tyrells in the main series. Aegon III is the ancestor of Daenerys, the Baratheons, any remaining Blackfyres, and possibly Jon Snow and Young Griff. Baela and Alyn are the ancestors of Aurane Waters and the Velaryons.

The book of F&B is so much more than the Dance of the Dragons. Saying that Nettles is the "final girl" of the book doesn't make any sense when she only appears in a few sections. That's like saying Alys Rivers is actually the main character of the book. Nettles disappears after the Dance and doesn't appear in any other event. She does nothing else after her disappearance and has relatively little impact on the history of Westeros post Dance.

I have absolutely no idea where you're getting the whole "fire goddess/witch" thing. However, you have already been throwing out theories and your personal biases as fact, so I don't think it matters. I'm not trying to control who your fav is, I totally understand wanting to be a certain book character. But that doesn't mean you can act like everyone else is wrong for not having the same fav as you.

It's that kind of entitlement, thinking you're better than everyone else that makes people not like Nettles stans. It's almost on par with stansas and Alicent stans. People like you project so hard onto your favs, you take any perceived insult, critique, or argument as a personal attack. It's exhausting interacting with people like you.

#rhaenyra targaryen #anti nettles stans #anti nettles x daemon #asoiaf #team black #anti rhaenyra antis

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queenvhagar · 6 months

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It seems like a lot of House of the Dragon's writing issues in the first season stem from the disastrous final season of Game of Thrones, specifically the rushed implementation of Daenerys' Mad Queen arc. It feels like the writers and HBO are hyper aware of Daenerys' ending being fumbled and the negative audience reaction it garnered, and now they're trying to correct the mistakes of the main series through the prequel series and specifically its characterization of Rhaenyra. Both Rhaenyra and Daenerys are Targaryen dragon riding queens motivated by their perceived birthright, but the similarities between the two characters are surface-level. In reality, Daenerys and Rhaenyra are not the same character, and the story of the Dance of the Dragons is not the story of the War of the Five Kings.

Daenerys is the last Targaryen (as she knows it), a former slave who seeks to use the power of her dragons to reclaim the throne and in the process abolish the institution of slavery as it exists in the world, a true revolutionary who seeks to transform society through fire and blood if need be (and if a Mad Queen arc appears in the books, it will undoubtedly be because the existing Lords in Westeros would likely oppose a restructure of society - after all, they are the primary beneficiaries of the feudalist society - and this could lead to conflict with Daenerys, which would escalate).

Rhaenyra is the named heir to the throne. Her position is "quite comfortable" - she enjoys her privileges (which is very fair of her). However, her privileged position above others leads her to act according only to her own desires and not her duty as heir. She fights only for herself and her own (although the show added the prophecy to obscure this motivation), and despite having the power and influence as the most powerful woman in the realm to promote "a new order" as she once envisioned a child, she repeatedly reinforces existing structures to further her own power (like defending Lucerys' illegitimate claim so her own looks stronger with her son as Lord of Driftmark instead of advocating for Baela to inherit as Laena's eldest daughter, something that ironically could have really supported her own claim of "eldest child inherits" in the process - and she could have sidestepped the bastard issue). Rhaenyra wants to be the exception to the rules; she doesn't seek to rewrite them for anyone else. Rhaenyra is a "rebel" only in the sense that she's breaking the law and then using her privilege to avoid facing the consequences of her actions at all costs.

You can argue that both Rhaenyra and Daenerys are breaking ground when it comes to becoming queen of Westeros, and both are motivated by their beliefs in Targaryen supremacy and their perceived birthrights to the throne. They might both be known as a "Mad Queen" - Rhaenyra's arc will come, and when it does, I'm really hoping it will be because of the reasons it was in the books: her suspicion and distrust leading her to isolate herself from her allies, eventually turning on them, and her disregard for the commonfolk leading to her being driven out of the city and the death of dragons (though I won't be surprised if the writers shy away from this, in fear of repeating any aspect of Daenerys' portrayal). But fundamentally, trying to write Rhaenyra to be Daenerys 2.0 so that they can fix the mistake of the Game of Thrones ending kind of ruins the Dance.

The Dance wasn't written as just the tragedy of a heroic girl taken down by sexism and misunderstandings, which is the story the show seems to be trying to tell. It's the tragedy of a family tearing itself apart, of the cultural conflict between Westeros and their Valyrian conquerors, of the desire for power and the lengths one will go to in order to get it.

But the writers are more interested in trying to tell a largely black and white story where they can make up for what they did with Daenerys' arc. Unfortunately for everyone, Rhaenyra is not Daenerys, and the Dance is not the War of the Five Kings.

#hotd critical #anti hotd #hotd meta #anti rhaenyra targaryen

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darkpoisonouslove · 2 months

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HotD S02E08

I do not want to do this but I also want to be fucking done with this season so I'm powering through.

TL;DR: What the fuck even was that finale? Also, a relevant question - WHERE is the finale? 'Cuz, like, nothing happened except for more setup and the total assassination of the source material. This is gonna be full of negativity.

gif by oscarwildebutwilder

(Couldn't resist when I saw Freddy Fox.)

Tyland Lannister was the only good part of this episode. He was having such a bad time but he did not give up and not only did he secure allies for the war, but he also got to sleep with a whole harem. Good for him!

The way that they have Larys smuggle Aegon out of King's Landing to protect him from his own brother instead of from Rhaenyra... Though, he also inadvertently ends up protecting him from Rhaenyra but that whole thing is purely because of Alicent. I just... RIP any sort of integrity this show fucking had. But I'm gonna talk about that later. At least that provides us with an interesting parallel between Alicent and Larys. She was horrified when he killed his family but now she's the one sacrificing her son and Larys ended up saving him? Again, for his own benefit but that doesn't change the fact that he has taken on the burden that caring for Aegon will be for the next however many months while Alicent just... did that (*whispers* what the fuck). What we need now is for Alicent to get Helaena's development from the book. She knowingly chose to give up Aegon to death but then he is the last of her children that evades death. Imagine her seeing him come back to King's Landing and being unable to look him in the eye, knowing she chose to let him die but at the same time wanting to hug him because he is all she has left... because of Larys. Insane!

I can see how much everyone cares for Rhaena since she disappeared from the convoy and no one even fucking noticed apparently! Or if they did, they just didn't give a shit. They really are putting her through the wringer for that dragon... and they didn't even give it to her. I cannot believe that they just decided to fucking leave it there. At least let her claim it to close the season. That way the Blacks would gain even more power even if no one knew it yet. It would have been some kind of closure if only on 1 out of 10 fronts. But no!

Jace and the horrible, terrible, no good, really bad days. His face when Rhaenyra asked Addam to go with her AND left him to deal with the "mongrels". Ooh, sorry for that rough patch, buddy, hang in there! (Not Baela only appearing when she has to tell him how awesome and totally Targaryen and fit for the throne he is after her last appearance was her telling her grandfather how awesome and totally fit for the throne of Driftmark Joffrey would be. Hmm... almost like there's a fucking pattern!) I think it would have been more interesting if Jace had suggested that they get bastards to ride the dragons. That would have required them to write him an arc during this season where he confronts his feelings on it first but think about it! He knows he's a bastard and that's enough to let him have a dragon. So it should be enough for other Targaryen bastards. Rhaenyra would be the one to protest based on her ideas of the dragons being the Targaryens' key to ruling but she's already bending the rules for her own sons. What if she bends them further to win this war? And that way Jace would be the one to slowly but surely be dismantling the pillars upon which the Targaryen supremacy is built like he's already done with his very existence. Rhaenyra would have still started this but it would be Jace realizing that he's probably going to face another war for his own succession anyway and he decides to pull out all the stops and prove himself in this war plus simultaneously watch out for those who would be future obstacles to him and weed them out right now.

Fucking clown behavior from Corlys once again. I am so glad Alyn just ripped into him like that.

What exactly was Gwayne thinking bringing up Criston and Alicent's affair so publicly and drawing everyone's attention? There's no way none of the other soldiers around them didn't hear what they were discussing. Great way to protect your sister's virtue, buddy! The way Criston also went through an existential crisis this season - just like Alicent - and has come out of it just as jaded, having lost his faith and his sense of purpose. The writers really fucking copy-pasted that arc, huh? On both characters obsessed with Rhaenyra. As if they're trying to imply that without Rhaenyra the world will end. Oh, wait! Did I say imply? They are outright stating it! But yeah, I want to be invested in the Alicole angst of him sniffing her handkerchief but I can't, knowing that Alicent was on her way to betray him and everyone else on her side. (*whispers* what the fuck)

Aemond is coming up so desperate and this could be interesting if they explore how he was so sure he could do it himself but now he has to face the fact that he's not a one-man(-and-dragon) army and he needs help. Which would have been easier to get if he hadn't torched his brother. He might have even persuaded Helaena to join him then, or at least Aegon could have if they had fucking let him and Helaena seek comfort in each other over their son's death. Aegon, due to their extenuating circumstances, could have chosen to stoke her feelings of anger and grief over Jaehaerys contrarily to how he tried to avoid that in 2x02 when he didn't say anything to her on the stairs because all he had was rage and she wasn't looking for that. The world we could have been living in! But no! We have this instead where Aemond is now turning on all of his family members and threatening their lives while Daemon has overcome his ideas to overthrow Rhaenyra and is now a loyal little soldier. At least can they give us some Aemond and Jacaerys parallels? Both feel that that is something making them not enough rn and if Aemond is to have a relationship with Alys, it would be interesting to see him struggle the same as Jace, who is also a bastard like her.

Apparently, if you are tripping balls for long enough, you will completely change your entire personality and start believing in magic and fate and the divine right of kings - oops, sorry, queens - even though you were the one character that openly admitted that it wasn't some magic-prophecy bullshit that got your house the throne but your flying nuclear lizards. Good to know! At least the writers had the decency to give us two different visions that clearly intersect somewhere but also wildly diverge. We didn't get to see Helaena's vision but she was just as certain in Aegon sitting the throne as Daemon was in Rhaenyra sitting it. Though, clearly Helaena sees further since his vision ended at that point but Helaena was also there and has seen beyond it. At least that way they keep the intrigue because if we know for certain one side is ordained by the gods to save the realm, then what's the point of watching the show further? That is to say, they could have fucked this up even more but they managed to not destroy their basic premise.

Love how they kept Helaena's dreamer side so vague until now and suddenly bam! She has a very clear map of when and how Aemond will die. She might not know the exact day but that was pretty specific, especially compared to her other visions. I am at least relieved that it's mostly because of the visions that she doesn't want to join Aemond, since she knows what will happen. It still feels like "women don't like war because they're so gentle" but a little less annoying nonetheless. (Not Rhaenyra saying that Helaena doesn't like riding Dreamfyre. And that on the heels of Aegon saying that Sunfyre is dead which is a confirmation because he would be able to feel it. My inner monologue rn: kill kill die kill.)

Ser Alfred when Daemon declared for Rhaenyra:

I was starting to think that he had just decided to cut his losses and fuck off to another kingdom. Rhaenyra clearly sent him away to get rid of him and showing up at Harrenhal to demand from the Daemon that left Dragonstone to check with his wife would have gotten him killed. It would have made sense for him to bail. Why did it take him so long to arrive? I know he wasn't on a dragon but this seems like some awfully convenient timing.

Rhaenyra still wringing her hands after she had 30-40 people die a horrifying, excruciating death AND broke the rules so bad that she pissed off all her dragon tamers is ABSOLUTELY. FUCKING. RIDICULOUS. Crack? Is it crack you smoke? Mysaria being there to urge her further into war while telling her how right and just she is is starting to feel a whole lot like they're setting up Mysaria to be the devil on her shoulder while Alicent, who wants peace, is the angel on the other shoulder. It's completely devoid of logic and stupid. I wish they would just cut that shit out.

This episode completely turned me off from Rhaenicent. I just cannot support this bullshit. I don't care how many parallels they've woven in between Alicent and Rhaenyra and how they were always each other's answer because they had what the other wanted and balanced each other out. This behavior is just completely unacceptable from a storytelling perspective, from a character perspective, from any kind of perspective, especially from Alicent.

What the fuck are they implying that Alicent is now fReE and she has shed the chains that kept her suffering and self-sacrificing?! She just agreed to let her son get killed so that she could save the realm from a war. That sounds exactly like self-sacrificing! Except that it's worse because she's not just sacrificing herself, but her child! (Also, fucking watch the writers imply that being disabled means you're completely disposable because you'd be better off dead anyway!) And that's coming after she spent 15-20 years agonizing over the fact that Rhaenyra will kill her sons just because they're a challenge to her claim to the throne! That was the whole reason why she put Aegon on the throne in the first place! How did it even occur to her to go to Rhaenyra at all when now more than ever there is no way to end this war without one of the claimants to the throne dying?????

Season 1 Alicent: *stands in front of a dragon for Aegon*

Season 2 Alicent: *agrees to let Rhaenyra execute Aegon*

Like??????????? WHAT. THE. FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate, haTE, HATE how they are still trying to present Rhaenyra's bid for Aegon's head as just or at least deserved because Lucerys got killed. Aren't you fucking forgetting that her husband ordered the decapitation of Aegon's six-year-old child????????? There was a son taken! Rhaenyra was allegedly horrified but now she is still thirsty for blood and wants Aegon's head. And when she kills him, she'll want Aemond's head - for Lucerys and because of all the innocent people he's killed, of course, not because he's also a threat to her claim. And when he's dead, she'll want Daeron's head if he dares to join his family and try to fight her. The attempts to present her as the hero are so outrAGEOUS... Why am I even watching this show? I should stop watching this show!

Otto being imprisoned was both "I fucking knew it!" and "Thank god he's alive at least!" I knew to be worried when Aemond wanted him back and Alicent said he hadn't responded to her letters.

#house of the dragon #hotd #hotd season 2 #hotd spoilers #*snorts*#anti hotd writers #alicent hightower #helaena targaryen #jacaerys targaryen #aemond targaryen #anti rhaenicent

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navree · 4 months

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The truth of the matter is that both Targaryen and Velaryon are of the Valyrian race. That’s all Showrunners Ryan and Sara are considering. They are not viewing it as a racial issue of the white family targeting the black one and trying to steal their land.

Yeah that's, like, kinda the problem. In the book the Targaryens and the Velaryons are both Valyrian, so issues between them cannot be viewed through a racialized lens beyond Valyrian supremacy vs the whole of Westeros (which doesn't show up on the Velaryons' end in the book anyway), so that critique cannot exist. But the showrunners changed that, they deliberately changed that by making the Velaryons Black and the Targaryens decidedly not. Which fine, go nuts, but when you're doing that kind of "race bending", especially when adapting a property that already exists, you need to be conscious of that.

I've talked about it before in my discussions on why a lot of "color blind casting" for historical dramas tends not to work out (the 2021 Anne Boleyn show cast Black Boleyns without thinking about the implications of sexually aggressive, dirty nailed, Black Anne Boleyn not only being rivaled by but also literally forcing a kiss on sweet, demure, lily white Jane Seymour, or of giving Black George Boleyn a story about abandoning a child he has with a woman and then of being murdered by his white king due to his white wife fabricating false accusations of sexual impropriety against him, so instead of whatever the Hell they wanted to do, we just had a boring TV show with some really racist implications). And that exists when it comes to adapting race from one story to the next. If you're going to turn white characters into characters of color, that's all well and good, but you need to acknowledge that the way they live their lives and look at the world and are viewed BY the world is going to subsequently change. And more importantly, you need to be aware that how those characters and their storylines are perceived by the audience is going to change as a result of that switch as well.

Because suddenly, it's not two different families of white people fighting over some rock in the ocean. Suddenly, it's a white family, with significantly more social capital and influence in their world, attempting to dispossess a Black family of their longterm, ancestral homeland, that is the only piece of land that they have, for that white family's gain. And that is something that comes with a lot of historical context and historical implication (we're STILL dealing with the ramifications of white-run cities and wealthy white people straight up stealing land and property from Black people during Jim Crow), and that's going to be on people's minds, especially in a show made by an American company and aired on an American network. You have to be aware that you're now not just writing characters, you're writing Black characters, and even in a fantasy world that might not have our history of anti-Black racism, that doesn't exist in a vacuum, especially to the consumer, and that there are going to be implications that might not have existed before that you need to be aware of and take into account.

And this doesn't even touch on my issues with the fact that, out of all the characters, the Velaryons absolutely got the fucking shaft writing wise. And I'm not sure how much you can divorce building up Rhaenyra and Criston or Harwin but not Daemon and Laena, or spending time developing fully fledged personalities for Aegon and Aemond but not Baela and Rhaena, or attempting somewhat consistent motivations for Viserys but not for Corlys and Rhaenys, from the fact that one half of those pairings is Black, and one is white.

They might not view it as a "racial issue", but when they made the change to the Velaryons' race, they made it one, at least in the eyes of the viewers and the context we grew up with and the knowledge that we have. Because creation doesn't exist in the aether, it is influenced by humanity here and it influences how we take it in once we put it out in the world.

#personal #answered #anonymous #don't even get me started on the fact that given how intertwined velaryons and targaryens are #and a bit of how recent the doom has been still #the targaryens should absolutely be much more mixed/black than they're portrayed as is in the show #if the velaryons have been black since the get go then aegon himself and his sisters were biracial!#their mother was a velaryon!

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kataraavatara · 9 months

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https://www.tumblr.com/thought--bubble/734425326135967744/why-are-some-people-so-insanely-aggressive-when-it?source=share

Aegon can get away with things, even with crimes like rape, just because he's a man. Also, the poor children in the fighting pits wouldn't agree that he's the best for the kingdom.

wow! the post you shared was…something!

“Aegon is the first born, true born son of the king. He should be king by birthright. Recognizing that is how westeros works doesn't mean I agree with it. Just that I understand that is how it works.”

How is supporting his usurpation not agreeing with it? “I just understand the way Westeros works” um, did you think George wrote the story with the intent of you seeing the injustice of male supremacy and saying “🤷‍♀️ whelp that’s how things are. people should not change it.”

“he has the council of Otto and Alicent, and regardless of how people feel about them, they successfully ran a peaceful, stable kingdom while viserys was rotting away.”

Otto and Alicent got kicked to the curb as soon as Aegon started feeling a little temperamental.

“his children are true born, and there is no question on that. His sons ascension would not be questioned and most likely would be a peaceful transition of power. (Again, this is better for the people at large)”

Like Rhaenyra says, the only thing strong enough to tear down the house of the dragon is itself. If the Greens don’t throw a bitch fit, no one else is saying shit about King Jacaerys I and Queen Baela Targaryen.

“as scared of his duties as his is, he comes through and performs them. (i.e., has children with heleana, takes a crown he did not want to protect his family)”

Is having children with Helaena supposed to be a different at Rhaenyra not having Laenor’s biological kids? Because Laenor is a gay man? Because arguably both scenarios require one spouse forcing themselves on the other depending on whether you believe Aegon abuses Helaena or not, which I personally do. So we’re applauding Aegon for…*checks notes* Having sex? And that’s great that he (allegedly) stood up when he was convinced his family was in imminent danger, but where was the family man attitude when he was SAing servants, drinking 24/7, and (allegedly) molesting children?

“he is way more likely to take advice and guidance instead of thinking he is right about things all of the time. He has not exhibited Rhaenyra's tendency to weaponize her power in order to get away with shirking tradition and common law. (I.e. Weaponizing the term treason in order to force people to ignore the objective reality of her sons legitimacy)”

Uh, no. While Alicent and Otto were horrified by Luke’s murder, that guy threw a party to celebrate the death of his nephew. Again, this is the man who fired Otto for not being violent enough. Oh, and he hasn’t weaponized his power to get away with shit? What about the serving girls in the Red Keep in the book and Dyana in the show? What about the children in fighting pits?

And “Shirking tradition”?

Well, traditionally, a king should be studious, well read, study arms, keep himself in good physical shape and generally conduct himself in an appropriate way and as the model of chivalry that the rest of the men in the kingdom should emulate. Think of Jaehaerys (for all his flaws), Aemon, Baelon, Baelor Breakspear…Aegon was a pudgy man child who spent his days drinking and assaulting women.

And, when following Common Law, rapists are gelded and sent to the wall.

Rhaenyra’s biggest crime as of this point in being complicit in the death of one man because she feared for her children’s safety and sought an alliance with Daemon. The only other things she’s done wrong is going against a patriarchal medieval society.

Meanwhile, Aegon has raped a woman, all the serving girls at the keep are wary around him, watches children in fighting pits, has bastards and abandons them. Erryk is literally so sickened by his behavior he defects!

It’s very telling that Rhaenyra’s “crimes” of going against Westerosi tradition are seen as worse than Aegon’s actual crimes against the common people.

You’re right, anon. The double standards in this fandom are insane.

#anti team green #rhaenyra targaryen #dance of the dragons #pro rhaenyra #team black #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf

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bohemian-nights · 11 months

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https://www.tumblr.com/drakaripykiros130ac/732901209272467456/i-am-just-loving-the-so-called-concern-tg-stans

This is how I find out an anti-nettles tag exists of Tumblr people are so shallow minded and miss the point George's original story people really think just because these dumbass show runner decided the race-bend an entire group of characters for cheap brownie points of representation that it means Nettles no longer matters like no, it may no longer be about race just because the writers are trying to force feminism onto Rhaenyra's character but it's still about class. A low born orphan at just the age of 17 was capable of doing what dozens of well trained knights failed to do. She survived one of the biggest civil wars in Westeros history, she had one of the last surviving dragons of the dance (who cares who's the biggest, oldest, most shiny etc etc it was Nettles and her dragon that outlived them all in the end) AND she was capable if creating an entire culture around herself (the tribes could've easily over powdered her but instead chose to worship and respect her) mind you all she had was a dragon, she had no titles just her name. Also, she's a few of the very few characters in the books that show care and remorse, she mourned Jace someone she barely knew and cried for Driftmark despite having lived a life previously where she was mistreated and starving on the streets. I swear these Dumbnyra stans deserve their names (Dumbnyra), and just because some of us are pro-Nettles, it doesn't automatically make use of team Green, Team Green can kick rocks as well because they are such hypocrites, whining and complaining about how their fav characters were stripped of importance and reduced to a singular thing yet they turn around and strip Nettles's character as a gotcha moment towards to Dumbnyra stans, as if her relationship with Daemon is the only thing important to her character. These stans also need to realize the Nettles is one of George's favorite characters whose stories he'd like to continue.

👆🏽That’s for the fact that this racist(who I should mention I’m blocked by for no reason🤣) actually knows how to tag things properly. I’ll give her that, but who exactly died and made her an authority on Black representation?

Dumbnyra stans this is exactly why people keep calling you people racists:

Do tell me how white a** Alys Rivers(no disrespect, but come on) had more purpose than a girl who shows that Targaryen supremacy is a lie? The girl that shows you don’t need Valyrian blood to claim a dragon.

The girl that George himself said he wanted to write a novella on(never heard him say that about Alys, Addam, Alyn, any of the other dragonseeds, Rhaena, and Baela)🤷🏽‍♀️

They are so blinded by the fact that she “ruins” Dumbnyra(which isn’t what they claim it is which is why they are scared sh*tless of her being on a show they claim doesn’t matter) that they make up lies about Nettles being the most irrelevant character in Fire & Blood.

This can never be irrelevant/unimportant/unnecessary/whatever else you want to say to demean her:

That happened long after the Dance boo boo(when Missy Anne’s a** was long dead 😊).

And if the one who wrote that garbage happens to be reading this(because I know you people are stalking me), f*ck you. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. You've crossed the line.

You’re a bigot. You have no right to speak on Black representation let alone say we are good on representation that doesn’t even affect you and that you have no understanding of.

And you definitely don’t care about representation because if you did you wouldn’t want Rhaena who has her own arc to replace Nettles who according to you wasn’t Daemon’s lover. If she’s just his daughter or his mentee, well then you have nothing to be worried about. Her presence on the show shouldn’t disrupt your putrid little white supremacist ship or make Missy Anne look bad since what happened at Maidenpool was all a big misunderstanding and Mysaria’s fault😊 You shouldn’t give a second thought to her.

Yes, Black people care about this issue(and even if some of us are a part of Team Green because that’s the majority I see from Team Green actually caring about her, then so what🙃).

Do you see how we are portrayed by the media? Do you see what happens to Black characters in TV shows and movies? To Black women characters? Do you see how they are treated by production and the fandom?

What you people are doing isn’t new. Just look at The Bear, Sleepy Hollow, Vampire Diaries, Star Trek, Star Wars, GOT(see how Missandei was done), and Marvel fandoms(there are more than that I’m just too tired to get into it).

The moment there is even a hint of a possibility that a Black woman might be in a relationship with the fandom hottie, hell the moment a Black woman doesn’t have a stereotypical role, all hell breaks loose and you people look for every excuse and spout out the same tired crap on why so and so is irrelevant, is a terrible character, doesn’t need a man, needs to be cut, should be killed off, should be replaced, etc.

So just because you don’t care doesn’t mean we should accept scraps, or our “irrelevant” characters being cut, or swapped out with race-bent characters. Black people aren’t all the same sweetie and we deserve more than what you feel we do.

If that’s too much for your diminutive brain to handle why don’t we just combine Ulf and Hugh? It’s not too late to cut out one of the two’s roles in post-production. After all, they serve the same role and they are both white.

You know what? How about we combine Black Aly and Jeyne Arryn while we are at it😀

Should we view Helaena and Rhaenyra as the same? I have a hard time telling them apart since they are both white and blonde. They should wear name tags that way we don’t get them confused 🙃

Let me stop there.

Sorry for ranting anon, but I’m so tired of the disrespect. Like how does one character who’s supposedly so unimportant cause so much uproar?

I go in on Dumbnyra stans a lot(and that person shows exactly why), but you are right that all sides of this fandom treat Nettles like she’s trash. If it’s not saying she’s a plot device sent to ruin Dumbnyra from Team Black and that anyone Black can replace her it’s how Team Green is so worried about her being abused and how maybe it’s for the best she gets cut.

Their behavior is utterly disgusting. It's anti-Black, but no one takes anti-Blackness and especially not misogynoir seriously.

Nettles may be a secondary character, but she’s the most important secondary character during the Dance. She starts out literally homeless. She claims Sheepstealer by determination, not by blood. She’s the only one to claim a wild dragon. The only non-Valyrian dragonrider that we know of.

She gets the Rogue Prince to fall in love with her to the point where he’s willing to die for her and disobeys his wife’s orders to save her. She survives the Dance with a dragon intake. Becomes a fire witch and is worshipped by a mountain clan in the Mountains of the Moon(she’s still worshipped by them during the main series). Her legacy is cemented.

I love her relationship with Daemon, but she’s so much more than just Daemon’s love. She’s a survivor. She’s the final girl. She would be seen as special as she is if she was white.

A character like her will never not be needed especially in a world where the representation of Black women in media, particularly fantasy stories, is still pretty bleak.

#bnasks #nettles #bnask #anti daemyra stans #pro nettles #just continue to use the anti tag #f*ck 90% of you in this fandom #netty #nettles asoiaf #nettles f&b #hotd fandom misogynoir #yep this is why y’all are called dumbnyra stans

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mhsdatgo · 4 months

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There are times I tell myself stuff like "What would Fire and Blood written with povs be like?" and I get really curious and fantasize. Jace (eldest daughter syndrome) Luke and Joff just exist. Aegon is too drunk for povs and we get one rarely with descriptions of his trips to Flea Bottom before he's blacked out post-Rook's Rest for a whole year, only to then randomly reappear just have his voyeurism kink described in painful detail before he just dies. Alicent's are the ones I keep coming back to. Rhaenyra is a compressed ball of anxiety-induced rage. Aemond is Liam Neeson (with one of the kids that are just existing and his late father's whole side of the family). Daeron comes back stinking of books cause he's been reading the SAME DAMN THING for 10 years. Helaena probably mops the floor with Aegon every night. Rhaena is a Disney princess actually the sun shines just for her. Baela's chapters are full of "I hate my dad/I love my dad". Then I remember Daemon Targaryen and his pedophile tendencies and blood supremacy hissy fits exist. So I go "actually no, I'm good".

#fire and blood #this is about the book #if you come at me about the damn show #or the rumour you're trying to convince everyone to be true just cause you think it is #i'll be in your room at 3AM #and I'll eat your walls do the most cursed fortnite dance and disappear #no one will believe you #beebee babbles

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darkestspring · 1 year

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I live in maegara supremacy!!! Viserys is the king, Rhaenyra is the heir to the throne but it is Maegara who controls everything (EVERYONE KNOWS IT, aegon ii, daemon, aemond, baela, jacaerys and alicent would give her the throne without thinking)

i know i've mentioned it a few times but maegara knows her place. even if she didn't, daemon takes great care to remind her that she's superior to everyone else, as a dragon made human. she's the one with all the control. viserys is the king, but even he talk about his decisions with maegara to ensure that she agrees. rhaenyra is the heir but every act she takes in regard to the realm is looked towards maegara with approval. nobles trip over themselves for her approval.

maegara is the one who's at the top of the hierarchy and she knows it, maegara is very aware of how powerful she is, she sometimes uses that power to get things she wants but most of the time its just a threat of "you're losing my interest darling and that it very dangerous"

maegara is chaotic. she does what she wants when she wants to. she has no regards for people she doesn't care about and those that hurt her loved ones suffer a fate worse than death at her hands. but of course, maegara is a dragon and cares greatly for those she loves.

maegara doesn't really want the throne. she was viserys first thought for who to put on the throne but maegara, who no matter whether she sits on the throne and takes the title of queen or not, is still at the top, she still makes decisions.

they all trip over their feet to undo what actions upset maegara when they notice their displeasure but when they do something that makes maegara happy, she definitely rewards them with affection (both platonicly and romanticly to those that correspond to those categories)

daemon forms maegara her own little harem, because dragon want for nothing, she sho0uld have everything and everyone trips over themselves to join it because daemon picks candidates very carefully as her father. of course, he would rather she stay single for her entire life but he's seen the way jace, aegon, and aemond light up when she smiles at them or kisses their cheeks.

daemon's the embodiment of "only the best for my baby, and i will be watching very carefully." he loves his baby and will murder a bitch for her.

#it goes without saying that maegara is attracting to both boys and girls which is so funny in reality.#jace groans when he realizes that he's competing with not only aegon and aemond but baela and rhaena too #maegara targaryen

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branwendaughterofllyr · 8 months

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Do you have any other fic recs for your poison tree fans 🙏 it's dire out here

Anon, I KNOW. There are very few HoTD fics that I unabashedly like, and even fewer long form political ones.

But there’s some I can recommend.

I recently blitzed through Dragonskin by Missybee303 and it’s one of the few Aemond/OC fics I’ve actually really enjoyed. The premise seemed just a tad far fetched to me at the start but it completely earns it by the end. Jeyne, a farrier’s daughter and secret skinchanger in King’s Landing, encounters Aemond after Vhagar’s saddle breaks, and this changed the course of their lives and the Dance. The author clearly did their homework, and this is one of the few Dance fics that I’ve seen actually tackle the politics and emotions of the Dance based on the barebones F&B gives us, and it does it with grace and style. I loved loved loved the side characters the author built in (special shout out to Jeyne’s dad, Denys, who stole my heart and the show.) and how organically they meshed into canon. This the only long form Dance fic I can pretty unabashedly recommend, especially if you are interested in world building and wider ensembles. (It even avoids the over competent Aemond syndrome trap that so many show fics stumble into.) My one gripe is there is A Lot of smut, to the point that I was like “enough! Get back to the story!” But I know that will be a positive to many people, hahah. It’s almost done so you don’t have to worry about it being abandoned and it’s very long and satisfying.

I’m keeping an eye on Scorched Earth by 0Junebug0 which is a Rhaenyra’s daughter OC/Aemond fic. But wait!! Before you run away at this tired old premise, know that so far this has been primarily been a character study of the Team Black family dynamics, particularly how Rhaenyra would deal with a daughter and how being a Targaryen women is not all it’s cracked up to be. It’s only six (normal length) chapters at the moment but it updates frequently. As of the last chapter, Aemond has finally appeared on the scene, so I can’t speak to how the main pairing is going to play out, but I have high hopes. And the prose is genuinely very gorgeous and atmospheric, so if you are were drawn to “a poison tree” by the writing style, this might just hit the spot for you.

The oddball on this list is Salvation by Targresurgence, which is another Aemond/OC fic. Jeyne Hightower (wow, I really do believe in Jeyne supremacy in HoTD fics), the daughter of Ormund Hightower is sent to KL for Alicent to make her a match. Aemond decides that actually fuck all of that, his mom’s cousin deserves only the best (him) and shenanigans ensue. I like this fic, but it’s sometimes against my better judgement, but when it’s good, it’s good. I respect this fic primarily for the massive mommy issues it gives Aemond and Aegon II, and it’s attempts at worldbuilding that are a little hit or miss (but when it hits, it HITS). It also has one of my personal pet peeves in it, which is killing off Johanna or Elenda to make Jason or Borros into sexual threats to one of the female characters (why this is so popular, I do not know. Drives me bonkers) but that’s my nitpick. It IS a bit of a wonky fic in places, so fair warning on that, and prepare to suspend some disbelief. It is unfinished and hasn’t been updated in a little while, but it’s fanfic. Never give up hope.

If you are interested in more book canon and Alicent centric fics, I really like what we’ve gotten so far of The Heretical Education of Lady Alicent by @aifsaath. It’s part of a larger ongoing series, The Sky is Always Red Above Valyria, exploring various dynamics of book canon, with a heavy focus on Alicent, Aegon II, and Baela, but this one has to be my favourite. It’s also beautifully illustrated, so even though it’s only three chapters long at the moment, for sure check it out.

In the same breath, the joint work Our Father’s Clad in Red by @gwenllian-in-the-abbey and @aifsaath is a book canon Aegon II/Baela fic that explores the aftermath of the Dance and how House Targaryen is to rebuild in a world without dragons. If you like world building, psychological exploration, good prose, and gorgeous illustrations, this may just be the book canon fic for you.

A brief shoutout to signs amidst the starry mirth by xiaolongbaobei, because I know this one is very popular and gets recommended a lot (as it should). This is a fem!Aemond fic with very GRRM-esque writing and the most terrifying and well-thought out Daemon I think I’ve ever seen in a fic. I really love gender-bending fics that really think it through and this one just has a great prose style and is actually addressing the politics of the Dance.

Obligatory witchcraft in your lips by slaymond mention. This is Aemond/Sansa crack treated with deadly seriousness and somehow. It’s really really really good. Great writing style, on point characterization, I’m sure you’ve already seen this fic recommended somewhere.

…. I also kinda vibed with @charmtion’s Daemyra fics? I’m not a daemyra stan by any means, but I’ve loved charmtion since their Jonsa days, and I liked salt more than I thought I would. If you have an inkling of an inclination towards Daemyra as a pairing, check this out. They also have a Helaemond fic, thyme, if that’s more your speed. Charmtion has a very loose, vivid, dreamy style that I have just adored for ages, so I would not count these fics out at all.

And is it even an HoTD fic recommendation list without including the one and only See, What Happened Was… by the legendary @daylander1000? This Aemond/Rhaena fic asks the question “what if the Velaryons actually had plot and character relevance and also what if Aemond and Rhaena had the chance to be weird, slightly murderous children together?” One of my favorite depictions of Alicent and Criston to boot (especially since now Mine Was The Hand You Reached For by HaughtHightower appears to be deleted 😔). It’s not been updated in a while but the author is a very busy person and I’m very happy to let her take her time.

I’ve read a lot of HoTD fics by now and these are the ones that I’m like “other people should read these too actually.”

Oh! An addendum! If you are seriously looking for a long piece of fiction that deals with a succession crisis, you might want to read When Christ and His Saints Slept by Sharon Kay Penmen about the real history of the Anarchy, the civil war between Matilda and Stephen over the English crown that inspired the Dance of the Dragons in the first place. In this time of fandom drought, if you are a fan of “a poison tree,” you should seriously consider giving this book a read. It’s so good.

#branwen answers #a poison tree #fic recommendation

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There's a very particular kind of exhaustion I feel when I see how the black family dynamic was and is handled on the show. I'm chewing on this to figure out how to say it and be coherent, but I think it bothers me that Balla and Rhaena are perceived as Velaryon and I don't like that it bothers me.

Normally, I would love to not eliminate the mother, her family and her lineage in history, it would seem great to me if they used her more than as "the woman who gave birth to them."Given how close and intertwined the Velaryon and Targaryen families are (especially the children) that the double heritage is recognized is logical and expected.

All the relationships that the girls are interested in are with their maternal family and all the grandchildren that Rhaenys is interested in are Laena's daughters.There is an intentional cut, a separation, that isolates these three women from their Targaryen side,all under a narrative in which they were violated and robbed of their true birthright.

This is where the part comes where I feel bitter and that is that these opinions do not seem to be based on a feminist reading (in fact some come directly from people who hate Rhaenyra and they simply use these other women to criticize her) but it comes from a racist reading. I have the terrible, uncomfortable feeling that Baela and Rhaena perceive themselves as more Velaryon and linked to the Velaryon side and everything they have *must* relate to the Velaryon because they *look* like Velaryon.

From here I have rewritten what I wanted to say several times because I wanted to express myself well and explain myself but I ended up rambling because how as someone who comes from a mixed family many of these readings reek of light segregation because the place of Baela and Rhaena and the expulsion of Rhaenyra's children from that is based on their physical appearance to keep them divided.

I have the terrible, uncomfortable feeling that Baela and Rhaena perceive themselves as more Velaryon and linked to the Velaryon side and everything they have *must* relate to the Velaryon because they *look* like Velaryon.

Maybe. It's hard to tell right now. I think it's generous to expect these white writers to really capture this experience of some mixed peoples as it actually is. I'm not sure if the "twins" feel that in the show either. The writers don't have the tools to realize that experience, the point of reference, the consultation, nor the direct experience so its surface level. And in part bc they don't even have grasp for how "race" relations work in Westeros as there is little reference for mixed families, so they hang back and lightly use their own reference for race relations.

I think it's more:

them perceiving that-- in lieu of this separation of Black women from their Blackness [below]--that they rebound to using the girls' Blackness to mark them as "too" different from the Targs to really be a part of them, which shapes how the characters move and navigate around each other

to appeal/in shared belief to some Targ antis who scream "the Targs are colonizers!" And to those PoC/black people who say the same of the Targs, it reads as complimentary because Blackness gets separated from "Targness" without losing the "cool" stuff entirely.

Because, even as white supremacy seeks to make race overpower ethnicity or heritage entirely, it also will use objectifying interpretations of ethnicity to define its own categories of "race" and which people "deserve" what. Precisely bc it separates and isolates!

Here's the thing: it's not that Baela and Rhaena are recognized as Velaryon, it's that they are completely erased as Targaryens by erasing their relationship with Rhaenyra and Daemon. Now Baela is a dragon rider like her mother and Rhaena is resentful of not having grown up with her grandmother. All the relationships that the girls are interested in are with their maternal family and all the grandchildren that Rhaenys is interested in are Laena's daughters. There is an intentional cut, a separation, that isolates these three women from their Targaryen side, all under a narrative in which they were violated and robbed of their true birthright.

NOTE: this is all in the case that they do make Rhaena the emotionally and socially isolated girl that some people predict she will be based on Phoebe Campbell's words. And rant incoming.

It becomes so much more real when you think of how they wriggle in Helaena as the Queen, Jace's or otherwise, excusing it as "Baela 'deserves' her own seat to rule as ahead of sorts"...but then Baela as Queen Consort is still not like most other Queen Consorts, bc she comes directly from Daemon Targaryen and has the would be dragonriding Velaryon lineage (w/the Lucerys-Rhaena marriage) doubly supporting Jacaerys! And she's raised to be a much more active participant in politics, more assertive, more conscious, more self-possessed than Helaena (not to Helaena's fault, bc that's on how Ott/Alicent/not-Viserys raised her). Rhaena is more assertive than Helaena, don't let the social coding of the color pink and high femmeness fool you! Also, what would Rhaena be doing with Baela as the Lady of Driftmark? No lands of a prominent house to oversee, or less of chance than she had before, if she didn't marry Luke? And how they try to argue Jaehaera's death made no sense when it makes all the sense in the world. Or that it was too horrible for a child and that GRRM just had biases against the greens or was somehow just an abusive man who endorses child death and murder....when that has been the point of the entire Dance, which they likely also deny, too and round and round we go.

This is all beside the fact that the Velaryons would have to refer to Daemon and prob Viserys before they could totally leave the seat to one of the girls bc....these girls are TARGARYENS! It is their surname, the house they are a part of bc last time I checked, no King or great event changed this custom or affected it in any way!!! Not like with how Jacaerys' name would change to "Targaryen" after his ascension in the agreement Viserys (the king) makes w/Corlys, and that was for ONLY those claimants/descendants b/t both their houses whom they share, not everyone else in the realm! With Rhaena, in the show, they poise the Velaryons as sort of possible refuge from her neglectful and disappointed father Daemon and the loneliness of her other's absence emphasized by Rhaenyra's presence (and the lack of Rhaenyra-Laena which poses Rhaenyra as much more a stranger "imposing" on Rhaena's life). Part of the whole "men are naturally violent" agenda for any sense of power.

People have reasoned that Rhaenys is "isolated" from the Targs because it is her own grandfather and cousin who dispossess her children's/her right to the throne after years of her pride to be a part of this family. Rhaenys already passed over in the final deliberations in the G.C. of 101--however, it's pretty clear that she was enthusiastically on Rhaenyra's side, the woman that HotD turned resentful towards. One of the women Rhaenys risked her life for. (@pessimisticpigeonsworld has a great post abt women being isolated from each other & female friendships stereotypes HERE).

If the show really has gone down the route Phoebe Campbell is describing with Rhaena, then the show is creating a storyline for the women of the black (except Rhaenyra) where to be a Targaryen is itself to impossible to be while being female. While there is some truth when we think about the progression of assimilation into Andal patriarchy, it simply goes against what is suggested in canon for this set of Targs. Daemon is not like Jaehaerys or Aenys or Maegor...the guy fully dies to remove the biggest threat to his wife's and their kids' safety AND claims. Saera and Viserra, for the most part, do not seem to have grown the sort of knowledge that the dragon twins have and without the trauma [again, the twins had "it" before any of their family dies]. And I already mentioned Rhaenys' devotion to Rhaenyra that comes easier witht he fact that even before in the GC, Rhaenys had been passed over in the first review and it is actually her son Laenor who was passed over for her "side" to be completely blocked. For Rhaenyra to become queen is to still "stick it" to Jaehaerys and all those lords who voted against her and her children!

Even still, Alysanne, Rhaena, Daenerys Stormborn, Daena, Elaena, etc. are all women who have take great pride in being Targaryens! There are so many citations of their words AND actions about it: Daena naming her son after the Prince Daemon and sleepig with Aegon IV instead of bound by Baelor her brother; Rhaena saying she is the Visenya to Alysanne's Rhaenys (implying maybe Jaehaerys is Aegon); Daenerys and her brothers! They never (or very rarely) thought it undermined their femininity or womanhood, and vice versa. They made new meaning of it or tried to. And they all do fight for their agency, & sometimes they obtain and keep some that wouldn't be there if they hadn't fought for it! This must mean something! Do not Black women have to fight for getting still less than their white counterparts in work spaces (Fannita at TikTok and all those stitiches)?!

Black women, on the whole, do not eschew their Blackness--or really they can't, but many wouldn't even if they could--to reaffirm their womanhood. It's actually twofold: anti-Targness AND the continuation of the systematic attempts to separate Black women from her Black heritage or make these things contradictory so that a black woman can never be truly "real", onto herself as her own agent, or have something to springboard and keep developing a sense of self and values from that may oppose white supremacist sensibilities towards "divide and conquer". And I'm not talking about black men, I'm just talking about Black women in a white supremacist world that seeks to make an object designed to go nowhere, do nothing, etc. Because if you cut off a person's heritage....how can they move the world around them? Another reason why PoC women love Daenerys Stormborn, who makes meaning of her ancestors without totally denying their wrongs and evils for altruistic ends. She found strength in herself, but the way towards that was to review her "past" which not not childhood only but the cultural context of which she was taken from. Idk how to say this, but while it can be part of a healing process to just abandon everything and start somewhere new, that is not what the show is doing bc you can hardly call the Velaryons "new" or free bc we still have Corlys' sexism and insistence on a male heir AND the Velaryons--if we believe Phoebe--are still rejecting Rhaena, so this paradigm is still not safe for her either and that whole idea falls apart to what it really is about!

Oh, and just bc "blackness" doesn't quite exist in the same way for Westerosi as for real Westerners, doesn't mean that real Westerners with a background in living with in a white supremacist world with viewers who live in a white-supremacist world are not looking at these girls as Black AND are not consciously and subconsciously making writing and characterization choices that are inspired by racism.

Also, the Targaryen girls/dragon "twins" becoming more "Velaryon" girls instead of their more popular (lets bfr) and awe-inspiring heritage of magical dragonriders. The Targs are just more in the center of the narrative, and many nonBlack people--most of the most vocal ones white or self-hating black and nonBlack PoC--do not see Black people as fully human or someone they can self-insert or see a perspective through. Or "relate" to.

So you're not wrong, anon, for racism motivating fans & the writers to see it this way. I see it, too. Honestly, danylanzhou of Twitter might be better able to answer the part about heritage and isolation and Dany's arc than me, but I hope this somehow helps?

#asoiaf asks to me #fandom critical #fandom racism #fandom commentary #asoiaf fav posts #baela and rhaena #the velaryons #hotd characterization #asoiaf race #hotd rant #hotd racism #asoiaf racism #hotd misogynoir

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