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mashounen1945 · 10 months

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An interesting Star Wars history essay I saw on Reddit (yes, really)

[Star Wars] The Rise and Fall of the Expanded Universe: How Disney's buy-out of Lucasfilm brought a 22-year era to an end, and split sci-fi's biggest fandom in half.

Posted originally by the Reddit user "TheMightyHeptagon" on February 23rd, 2022.

[Link to the original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/szvovy/star_wars_the_rise_and_fall_of_the_expanded/]

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How did we get here?

Unless you've been frozen in carbonite for the last decade, you've probably noticed that Star Wars is currently bigger and more ubiquitous than it's been in a very long time. You also probably know why that is: the Walt Disney Corporation bought the rights to the franchise in 2012, and Disney subsequently reignited the series by producing a 7th, 8th, and 9th episode—which seemed nearly inconceivable when the prequel trilogy concluded back in 2005. And you've also probably noticed that the Star Wars fandom is (to put it mildly) a bit divided at the moment. For various reasons, the various Star Wars films and TV shows of the so-called "Disney era" have their fair share of both supporters and detractors, and some recent works are more widely beloved than others.

But that's not what I'm here to talk about today.

If you're a relatively casual Star Wars fan who's generally just content to watch the movies (and there's nothing wrong with that), you might not realize that Disney's buy-out of Lucasfilm in 2012 was also effectively the end of an era for the franchise; the effects of that are still rippling through various Star Wars works to this day, and many fans still have strong feelings about it.

So why is it so hard to talk about Star Wars these days without getting into an argument? Why did the Disney buy-out start hundreds of online screaming matches back in 2012 before Disney even released a single film? And what does it all have to do with the European Union?

To answer that last question: absolutely nothing.

See: when a Star Wars fan talks about "the EU", they're probably talking about the "Expanded Universe". So... what's the Expanded Universe?

"A short time ago, in a sci-fi section not so far away..."

The short version:

In the context of the Star Wars franchise, the "Expanded Universe" is a loosely connected series of officially licensed Star Wars works released in various artistic mediums other than live-action films, which provide information that isn't in the movies that make up the core of the franchise.

Technically, the Expanded Universe is the same world as the Star Wars universe—or rather, it was until Disney declared that it wasn't anymore (but we'll get to that).

More broadly speaking: in modern fandom discourse, the term "Expanded Universe" generally refers to works in a popular franchise released in a different medium than the works that initially made the franchise famous, which may or may not be considered part of the franchise's "official" canon. It's most commonly applied to franchises that began as movies or TV shows, where particularly devoted fans might eagerly consume novels or short stories or comic books featuring their favorite characters while awaiting the next episode or installment.

In general, such works tend to act as a supplement to the main story, and they serve to expand the story beyond its primary medium (hence "Expanded Universe"). When writing such works, however, creators generally avoid writing particularly dramatic or pivotal plot turns that would drastically affect the world of the story—since that might alienate relatively casual viewers who don't necessarily have the time or the inclination to hunt down every work in a popular franchise, and the creators generally don't want to make those casual viewers feel like they're missing out on important plot points.

For a while, the Star Wars franchise was famous for being especially prolific in that regard, which probably shouldn't come as much of a surprise. After all: the Star Wars films are set in a whole fictional galaxy filled with hundreds of unexplored planets, and they're brimming with enigmatic references to thrilling events that the audience never sees. The world that George Lucas created is the perfect playground for sci-fi writers.

But when sci-fi fans talk about the "Star Wars Expanded Universe" (or "the EU" for short), they're usually specifically referring to a series of novels published by Bantam Spectra and Del Rey Books (and a few comic books published by Dark Horse Comics) between 1991 and 2013.

So what was it about that 22-year period that made it such fertile ground for Star Wars stories?

Well, that's where it gets a little complicated...

"We seem to be made to suffer. It's our lot in life..."

According to most accounts, the Star Wars franchise has a bit of an odd history because George Lucas' plans for the series were in a constant state of flux for nearly all of his career. Originally, he didn't even plan on Star Wars being a series at all: he just wrote a single screenplay, but had to drastically cut it down at the studio's behest when it turned out to be way too long for one movie; conveniently, that left him with plenty of material for two more movies when the first film turned out to be a surprise hit, and the studio expressed interest in sequels.

And once he started to make plans for continuing the story after the Original Trilogy, he similarly waffled on how many more movies he wanted to make: some sources claim that he wanted to make a full nine movies (or possibly as many as twelve) before the arduous production of The Empire Strikes Back convinced him to trim it down to just six. Even after that, Lucas still considered taking a crack at making his own Sequel Trilogy a few times after the Prequel Trilogy wrapped, and he didn't completely give up on those plans until shortly before the Disney buy-out. Some plot points in Disney's sequels, in fact, were supposedly based on Lucas' own story notes.

But by the early 1990s, Lucas finally seemed reasonably sure that the Star Wars prequels (which were in pre-production at the time) would be the last Star Wars films, ending the series at six movies. Some fans didn't take that news well—at all.

On one hand: the original Star Wars trilogy does tell a more-or-less complete story with a beginning, middle, and end. On the other hand: it also sets up some rather intriguing questions that easily could have been the basis for a whole new saga.

Did another Emperor rise to power after Palpatine died? Did the Rebels win the war? Did Luke become a Jedi Master? Did he ever train an apprentice of his own? And if the Rebels did win the war, how did our heroes handle the responsibilities of running the galaxy? And did the Jedi ever make their glorious return?

Understandably, some fans were bummed that those questions (and dozens more) might never be answered, and they were really bummed that they might never meet the next generation of Jedi.

With all that in mind, you can imagine why it was a really big deal when fans suddenly learned that there would be a new chapter in the saga of Star Wars after all.

No, I'm not talking about when Disney announced the release of The Force Awakens in 2015. This is a different chapter in the story of the Star Wars franchise—and it begins well over two decades before Finn, Rey, Poe Dameron, Rose Tico and the rest of the gang ever saw the light of day.

See: by the late 1980s, the Star Wars franchise was facing an uncertain future. Once the Original Trilogy wrapped up in 1983, and nobody knew exactly when a new trilogy might make its way to theatres, it seemed entirely possible that Star Wars was finished for good. Sure, Lucasfilm managed to tide young fans over with a pair of made-for-TV films in 1984 and 1985 (both of which were inexplicably all about Ewoks), and a couple of Saturday morning cartoons (one of which was... also all about Ewoks) that both ended in 1986. Even Marvel Comics' popular Star Wars comic book series was cancelled in 1987 after running for a full decade. After that, Star Wars basically went into hibernation. There's a reason why the final years of the '80s are sometimes jokingly called "The Dark Times" by fans.

And then, in the dim twilight of the 20th century, something happened.

"Never tell me the odds!"

The year was 1991. The Soviet Union had just collapsed, Boris Yeltsin had just become the first President of Russia, Nelson Mandela and the African National Congress were negotiating an end to the Apartheid in South Africa, CERN scientists had just unveiled "The World Wide Web", Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls had just won their first NBA Championship, The Simpsons was on its second season, Nirvana had just achieved mainstream superstardom with Nevermind, Will Smith was still the star of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, the Golden Age of Hip-Hop was in full swing... and there hadn't been a new Star Wars movie in theatres for nearly a decade.

And then the news broke: Lucasfilm had just reached a deal with venerable science-fiction publisher Bantam Spectra, allowing them to publish an officially licensed Star Wars novel written by Hugo-nominated author Timothy Zahn, widely considered to be a rising star in the world of sci-fi literature.

On its face, the simple existence of a Star Wars novel wasn't that big a deal. After all: Lucasfilm had been allowing the publication of tie-in novels since the 1970s, when they hired prolific sci-fi writer Alan Dean Foster to write the novelization of the original film, and later tapped him to write the original Star Wars novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye (which was based on a proposal for a low-budget Star Wars television film that never got made). There were also a handful of pulpy sci-fi adventure novels in the '80s following the adventures of Han Solo and Lando Calrissian before the timeframe of the movies. So what was so special about this book?

Simple: unlike every other Star Wars novel published up to this point, this one was going to take place after the epic conclusion of Return of the Jedi. In fact, it was going to skip forward a full five years after the deaths of Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine—because it was going to be all about the beginning of a whole new era in the history of the Star Wars galaxy following the Rebels' pivotal victory at the Battle of Endor. Instead of telling the story of a plucky band of outmatched rebels striking a desperate blow against the forces of tyranny, this story would portray Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, and Leia Organa as the idealistic leaders of a reborn Republic locked in an epic power struggle with a resurgent Galactic Empire.

Even better: the novel was going to be the first in a trilogy of novels. And in a time when many fans had given up hope that they ever get to see a 7th, 8th, and 9th episode on the big screen, that was exactly the kind of news that they'd hoped for. At long last, fans were going to get to see the next chapter of the Star Wars saga—and absolutely anything could happen.

Within a few weeks, Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire shot to the top of the New York Times Bestseller List as fans across America rushed to their local bookstores to grab a copy. And within the first few pages, they were introduced to the story's new antagonist. His name was "Thrawn"—and in nearly every way imaginable, he was the complete antithesis of everything that fans had come to expect from a Star Wars villain.

Instead of a sinister Sith Lord dressed in a dark hooded cloak or a fearsome suit of black armour, he was a Grand Admiral in the Imperial Fleet dressed in a crisp white naval uniform. He was also an alien (specifically: a member of a newly introduced species known as the "Chiss"), instantly identifiable by his striking bright blue skin and glowing red eyes. Instead of relying on the vaunted power of the Dark Side, he was determined to best our heroes through good old-fashioned ingenuity and cunning. Instead of brutality, he relied on his strategic genius. And instead of earning the obedience of his men through fear and intimidation, he inspired their loyalty through his unmatched charisma—which made it easier for some fans to root for the Empire without feeling too guilty. To this day, Grand Admiral Thrawn remains one of the most popular characters ever to come out of a Star Wars work, and his fans love him just as much today as they did in 1991.

But with every new chapter, the story introduced more twists and turns, taking every opportunity to flesh out the world that fans had come to love. Readers got to see Chewbacca's home planet of Kashyyyk for the first time (since everybody knows that the Star Wars Holiday Special never happened), they got to meet the slippery information trafficker Talon Karrde, they got to see the galactic capital of Coruscant for the first time (the name "Coruscant" originated in the book, in fact), they got to see a clone for the first time in an official Star Wars work, and they even got to meet Emperor Palpatine's alluring Force-sensitive personal assassin Mara Jade—who was teased early on as a potential love interest for Luke.

(Yes, Luke finally got a love interest who didn't turn out to be his sister. It was pretty exciting at the time.)

All of those thoroughly intriguing ideas (and many more) kept fans hooked all the way through Heir to the Empire and its two sequels Dark Force Rising (released in 1992) and The Last Command (released in 1993). Those three books, retroactively titled "The Thrawn Trilogy", helped push the Star Wars franchise back into the cultural spotlight for the first time since the halcyon days of the Original Trilogy, and they showed that demand for a new series of adventures was just as strong as ever.

But were they any good?

Honestly, most fans will tell you that the answer is a pretty resounding "Yes". The Thrawn Trilogy managed the difficult task of feeling like an authentic entry in the Star Wars saga while fearlessly exploring the aftermath of the movies. It had memorable new characters and thrilling action sequences, it explored poignant themes, and it combined a genuine reverence for the films with an earnest desire to build on them.

The Thrawn Trilogy wasn't a perfect story—but in the areas where it delivered, it delivered big. And even though George Lucas wasn't personally involved in writing its story, he took its success as a sign that audiences were eager for more Star Wars movies. According to some accounts, it was the success of the Thrawn Trilogy that convinced Lucas to fully commit to making the Star Wars prequels. So if not for those three novels, Star Wars might never have returned to theatres.

But as fans soon discovered: the Thrawn Trilogy was just the beginning.

"This is where the fun begins!"

Around the time that Heir to the Empire came out, Lucasfilm also reached a deal with comic book publisher Dark Horse Comics, allowing them to publish officially licensed Star Wars comic books. Thanks to that deal, Dark Horse's officially licensed Star Wars miniseries Dark Empire also hit shelves in 1991, becoming the first new Star Wars comic book since the cancellation of Marvel Comics' Star Wars series in 1987. Telling the story of Han, Luke, and Leia battling a resurgent Galactic Empire commanded by a resurrected Emperor Palpatine, it also jumped headfirst into exploring the aftermath of the movies, officially taking place one year after the Thrawn Trilogy.

Meanwhile: Bantam Spectra, eager to build on the success of the Thrawn Trilogy, soon contracted a murderer's row of prolific sci-fi novelists to churn out even more novels exploring the aftermath of Return of the Jedi.

And then, well... Then the dam broke.

Between 1991 and 1999, Bantam Spectra published nearly three dozen Star Wars novels. And that's just the novels aimed at adults; if you count the ones aimed at teenagers and young readers (and there were a lot of them), the full tally is closer to five dozen. And if you also count the numerous comic books published by Dark Horse during the same period, it's even more. The sheer number of Star Wars works to come out of that decade is honestly kind of awe-inspiring, and even the most ardent fans often have trouble keeping them all straight.

There was The Courtship of Princess Leia, which told the full story of how Han and Leia got married. There was Crimson Empire, the story of a former Imperial Guardsman on a mission of revenge against his treacherous former comrade. There was the Jedi Academy trilogy, which told the story of Luke training his first Jedi apprentices. There was The Corellian Trilogy, where we finally got properly introduced to Han's home planet. There was the X-Wing series, where we got to follow the continuing adventures of the brave pilots of Rogue Squadron. There was the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy, where we got to meet Chewbacca's family for the first time (since everybody knows that the Star Wars Holiday Special never happened). There was Shadows of the Empire, where we learned the full story of what happened between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. There was the Young Jedi Knights series, where we got to follow the adventures of Han and Leia's children as they studied the ways of the Force under their uncle Luke.

... There were a lot of freakin' books, is what I'm saying.

So were they any good?

Well... That question's a little harder to answer. Most fans agree that the Thrawn Trilogy started the Expanded Universe off with a bang, but the general consensus is that the subsequent novels and comic books varied wildly in quality. Some were good, some were decent, some were tolerable, and some are widely agreed to be just plain God-awful. To reiterate: Bantam Spectra and Dark Horse published nearly five dozen of the damn things in the 1990s alone, and they were written by a rotating stable of more than a dozen different authors. It shouldn't be too surprising that not all of them were equally great.

But regardless of how good they might have been, they succeeded in bringing about a massive resurgence of interest in Star Wars, which paved the way for the saga's return to the big screen 16 years after Return of the Jedi. The original film may have been a product of the late '70s, and "Star Wars mania" arguably reached its peak in the early '80s, but the franchise's renaissance in the '90s was nothing to sneeze at.

Little by little, the novels exploring the aftermath of Return of the Jedi had blossomed into a vast and epic saga in their own right, with their own expansive cast of characters and their own vast array of original concepts. Fans came to call that saga "The Star Wars Expanded Universe"—or "The EU" for short. By the end of the '90s, the EU had gotten so big that its timeline officially covered more than 15 years worth of stories set after the original Star Wars trilogy. To put it in perspective: the original Star Wars trilogy itself (as epic as it might be) only takes place over the course of about four years. So in effect, the Expanded Universe had grown even bigger than the film series that it was based on.

You probably know what happened after that:

The Phantom Menace hit theaters in 1999, officially kicking off the much-anticipated Prequel Trilogy. It was followed by Attack of the Clones in 2002 and Revenge of the Sith in 2005.

And yet, even as the new movies were hogging most of the attention, the novels just kept coming.

In 1999, the same year that The Phantom Menace made its way to the multiplex, famed sci-fi publisher Del Rey Books (who'd published the first Star Wars novels in the '80s) reclaimed the license from Bantam Spectra. With the publishing rights to Star Wars in hand, the company kicked off the biggest and most ambitious project that the Star Wars Expanded Universe had ever seen: a massive 19-book epic called The New Jedi Order, which told the story of a full-on invasion of the Star Wars galaxy by a hostile race of aliens from another galaxy beyond the Outer Rim. It continued the ever-evolving story of the Expanded Universe, steadily moving its timeline further into the future.

The New Jedi Order was a huge story that saw the deaths of numerous longtime characters and the permanent transformations of many more, and it took the Expanded Universe into progressively bolder and stranger territory as it continued to diverge from the movies. But as imaginative and ambitious as it may have been, it was also one of the most divisive series in the history of the Expanded Universe up to that point, with many instalments getting a tepid reception at best. The series reached its conclusion in 2003, just two years before the Prequel Trilogy concluded in 2005 with Revenge of the Sith. And yet, just as the entertainment press was reporting on the "end" of Star Wars, it soon became clear that the continuing story of the Expanded Universe was still far from over.

Yep: the novels just kept coming.

By 2006, when Del Rey unveiled a new nine-book series called Legacy of the Force, the timeframe of the Expanded Universe had reached a point more than three decades after the events of the movies. By this point, the core trio were well into middle age, Han and Leia's children were nearly twice as old as Luke was in the original Star Wars, and the war between the Rebel Alliance and the Galactic Empire was a distant memory. Out in the real world, the Expanded Universe had been running more-or-less continuously for 15 years, but book sales and critical reception were starting to falter noticeably.

And still, the novels kept coming.

Legacy of the Force, which ended in 2008, proved to be (arguably) the single most divisive series in the history of the Expanded Universe, largely because it took one of the main characters in a bold new direction that proved to be highly controversial among long-time fans. Del Rey's follow-up, the nine-book series Fate of the Jedi, was somewhat better received—but it proved to be rather divisive for its own reasons, and many fans didn't like how the writers handled certain aspects of the lore. Fate of the Jedi, which concluded in 2012, proved to be the very last multi-part series in the Expanded Universe.

And... then everything fell apart.

"I've got a bad feeling about this..."

So what happened to the Expanded Universe?

In short: Disney happened.

In 2012, the year that Del Rey's Fate of the Jedi concluded at nine instalments, George Lucas announced his retirement from moviemaking, planning to step down as President of Lucasfilm after more than 40 years. Before stepping down, he reached a deal with Disney CEO Bob Iger and agreed to sell Lucasfilm to Disney, along with the rights to the Star Wars franchise. He agreed to that deal with the full knowledge that Disney would commence development on a 7th, 8th, and 9th episode of Star Wars as soon as they had the rights to the franchise, and he gave his blessing to the new trilogy with the understanding that he wouldn't be a part of making it. Lucas' longtime colleague and confidante Kathleen Kennedy took over as President of Lucasfilm, now a fully owned subsidiary of the Walt Disney Corporation.

It took a couple of years before fans learned anything concrete about the plot details of the hotly anticipated Episode VII (eventually titled The Force Awakens), which would take place roughly 30 years after Return of the Jedi and feature a full reunion of the original cast. But Disney was clear about one thing from the beginning: their new trilogy would tell a wholly original story—and the new films wouldn't be acknowledging any stories from the old Expanded Universe as canon. Instead, the sequels would be presenting a whole new interpretation of what happened after Return of the Jedi, effectively starting with a blank slate.

As far as the new creative team was concerned: Grand Admiral Thrawn and Mara Jade never existed, the Yuuzhan Vong invasion never happened, and Jacen and Jaina Solo and Ben Skywalker were never born. And Kyp Durron, Corran Horn, Kyle Katarn, Prince Xizor, Talon Karrde, Tycho Celchu, Jagged Fel, Tenel Ka Djo, Allana Solo, Mirta Gev, Natasi Daala (and dozens more) were just figments of the fans' imaginations.

After more than two decades, the Star Wars Expanded Universe had officially come to an end. The 2013 novel Star Wars: Crucible—which was announced as something of a "swan song" to the series—proved to be the very last Expanded Universe work, bringing its story to a close. All subsequent Star Wars novels and comic books would take place in a whole new universe with a whole new continuity.

So... what happened to the old ones?

Simple! They didn't vanish from existence—but in all subsequent printings, they would be released under the new imprint Star Wars: Legends, which served as a reminder to fans that they were no longer canon.

As soon as that announcement went out, a certain contingent of the Star Wars fandom went absolutely berserk.

Keep in mind: not only had the old Star Wars Expanded Universe been around for twenty-two years (which was even longer than many fans in 2013 had been alive), it covered four decades worth of stories. Not all of those stories may have been equally great, but some fans had devoted a lot of time and effort to following them through all of their ups and downs. And to some of those fans, being told that many of their favourite stories never happened was a massive slap in the face.

But as Bart Simpson once reminded the Comic Book Guy: "None of these things ever really happened..."

"I've felt a great disturbance in the Force. As if millions of voices cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced..."

Considering the Star Wars Expanded Universe was around for twenty-two years, it's pretty understandable that some fans grew pretty attached to it over time. But if you look at the big picture, it's also pretty easy to understand why Disney retired it.

It's important to remember: part of the reason why the Expanded Universe grew into such a big and ambitious saga was that most people had every reason to believe that there would never be any Star Wars sequels on the big screen. Because of that, the writers at Bantam Spectra, Del Rey, and Dark Horse effectively had a blank check to go nuts (within reason, of course...) telling the story of Han, Luke, and Leia's continuing adventures without ever having to worry about their stories conflicting with the stories of the movies. Since, y'know... everybody was absolutely certain that there wouldn't be any more movies. (Until there were.)

For his part, George Lucas always made it pretty clear that he didn't consider the Expanded Universe part of his artistic vision. As far as he was concerned, Star Wars ended when the final credits of Return of the Jedi rolled, and the numerous questions about what happened afterwards were destined to remain unanswered forever. The novels and comic books of the Expanded Universe effectively just presented fans with one hypothetical answer about what might have happened next.

So when the Sequel Trilogy was greenlit, the creative staff at Disney were left in sort of an odd bind. Sure, some fans were inevitably pissed when they announced that the EU was no longer canon. But if they'd (theoretically) done the opposite and kept it canon, it would have made it incredibly difficult to make a trilogy of sequels for a general audience.

There's really no getting around it: the old Expanded Universe might have had plenty of fans—but compared to the full-blown cultural phenomenon that was the original Star Wars trilogy, its following was... Well, all things considered, it was pretty niche. And the number of people who successfully managed to keep track of all forty years worth of continuity in the EU is pretty paltry compared to the legions of people who know the story of the original Star Wars trilogy by heart. If Disney had somehow tried to make a trilogy of Star Wars sequels that actually fit into the continuity of the Expanded Universe (which was designed for a completely different artistic medium than the movies), it would have been pretty alienating for the vast majority of people who hadn't spent 22 years keeping track of it.

Seriously, though: can you imagine trying to recap 22 years worth of sci-fi novels in an opening crawl? Exactly.

Disney tried to have it both ways by at least keeping the old Expanded Universe novels in circulation and declaring them an alternate continuity, but a particularly vicious sub-set of the Star Wars fandom continued to loudly insist that Disney had "betrayed" the proud legacy of the Expanded Universe by erasing it from canon, and that refusing to acknowledge the Expanded Universe was the ultimate act of disrespect to the fans.

Because if they really respected the fans, then they "obviously" should have just spent millions of dollars on a trilogy of movies based on a loosely connected series of moderately successful sci-fi novels of wildly varying quality that came out during the Clinton administration, right?

... Right?

What's the Big Deal?

By now, hopefully you've gotten a decent idea of why it sent tremors through the Star Wars fandom when the old EU was officially retired in 2013. For the most part, the arguments that resulted from that development have mostly just amounted to fans yelling at each other on message boards and posting the occasional angry YouTube video. But you could also make a pretty good case that those arguments (as petty as they may be) actually open up some intriguing questions about the enduring legacy of Star Wars and its place in American popular culture.

Even if they're not a fan, most people probably know that the release of the original Star Wars in 1977 was a defining moment in the development of the "geek" subculture. And everybody knows that geeks and nerds love Star Wars. As many disagreements as people might have about Star Wars, everybody knows that it's a "geek classic".

But here's a surprisingly difficult question to answer:

What is a geek? And what is a nerd? And what actually makes a piece of media "geeky" or "nerdy"?

In theory, everybody knows the answers to those questions. But in practice, most of us just sort of know geeky and/or nerdy stuff when we see it. And like with most modern neologisms, the definitions of the terms "geek" and "nerd" have been in flux ever since they were first coined.

Case in point: a "geek" was originally a type of carnival performer, and a "nerd" was originally a fictional creature from a Dr. Seuss book.

(Yes, really. Look it up if you don't believe me.)

Probably the most consistently agreed-upon definition of "geek" is "A person with esoteric interests" ("esoteric" meaning "Not enjoyed or appreciated by the general public"). And one of the most consistently agreed-upon definitions of "nerd" is "A person with an obsessive devotion to their personal interests". So in theory, geeks and nerds are people who like stuff that most people don't appreciate, and get really obsessive about that stuff.

When people talk about "geeky" or "nerdy" hobbies, they're likely to mention stories about Star Trek fans devoting hours of effort to learning the Klingon language, or fans of The Lord of the Rings spending hours learning the Elvish dialects of Quenya and Sindarin. Part of the reason Dune and The Lord of the Rings are considered "geek classics" is that they include 100+ pages of appendices fleshing out the workings of the worlds where they take place, which is perfect for fans who don't mind spending hours diving into the nuances of the lore.

So that settles it! Star Wars is a geek classic because it's esoteric, and most people just don't appreciate it.

... Is it, though?

Lest you forget: adjusted for inflation, the original Star Wars was the second-highest-grossing American film in history at the time of its release, second only to Gone with the Wind. All three movies in the original trilogy were extraordinarily successful, and a lot of people really loved them. So from a certain perspective, they weren't that geeky.

You could also make a case that they're not really that nerdy. After all: at this point, it's pretty well-documented that even George Lucas barely knew anything about the finer points of the Star Wars universe when he first started making the movies in 1977, and he mostly made that stuff up as he went along. In the early years of Star Wars, even the most ardent fans couldn't claim to be "experts" on the lore, because, well... For the most part, there wasn't any. There were just... three very popular movies, which practically everyone in 1980s America had seen.

For better or for worse, the Expanded Universe changed that forever. Thanks to the EU, there was suddenly a hard and fast dividing line between "casual" fans and "serious" fans, and "serious" fans could justifiably claim that they knew more about Star Wars than everybody else. And even at the EU's lowest points, many of those fans took comfort in that—and some of them let it go to their heads.

The unfortunate prevalence of "gatekeeping" in geek culture has been a pretty hot topic for the better part of the last decade, and the evolution of the Star Wars fandom between 1991 and 2012 is often cited as a classic example for good reason. For a while, a vocal minority of Star Wars fans earnestly and unironically believed that the movies were just the tip of the iceberg, and you weren't a real fan unless you had the patience and devotion to keep up with the Expanded Universe too. The movies might have been universally beloved cultural touchstones, but the hardest of hardcore fans had the Expanded Universe all to themselves.

When the Expanded Universe ended in 2012, there were many reasons why some fans weren't happy about it. Some of them were just nostalgic for the Star Wars novels that they'd loved growing up, and were sad to see their favorite original characters go. Some of them truly believed that the sequels would have been better if they'd been based on the Expanded Universe novels from the '90s and the 2000s. And, well... Some of them were angry that their license to gatekeep had been revoked—and for the first time since 1991, they knew just as much about Star Wars as the "casual" fans that they loved to look down upon. Unfortunately, smug superiority is a hell of a drug.

So if you've ever wondered why it's so hard to talk about Star Wars these days without getting into an argument, hopefully that gives you a good idea.

Ghosts of Paperbacks Past

Bottom line: the Star Wars Expanded Universe was a massive undertaking that meant a lot to a lot of people. Love it or hate it, a lot of people put a lot of work into it for a very long time. It's pretty hard to believe that a series could run that long without leaving a legacy behind.

Which is probably why it did leave a legacy behind.

See: when Disney announced in 2012 that the Expanded Universe would be ending, they announced that the animated series Star Wars: The Clone Wars would still be acknowledged as canon alongside the movies. And in an interesting little footnote: a few storylines in The Clone Wars prominently feature a planet called Dathomir, which is home to a group of Force-sensitive "witches" known as the "Nightsisters".

As any EU fan will happily tell you: Dathomir and the Nightsisters were first introduced in the 1994 novel The Courtship of Princess Leia, which was one of the first Expanded Universe novels ever published. So even though that novel wasn't considered canon anymore, some of its more iconic and fondly remembered concepts were saved from the dustbin of continuity, just because they were included in The Clone Wars.

Similarly: the interstellar crime syndicate "Black Sun" (first introduced in the 1996 EU novel Shadows of the Empire) also showed up in a few episodes of The Clone Wars, meaning that Black Sun still existed too.

Thanks to those little details, some fans were able to cling to the faint hope that their favorite EU characters were still out there somewhere in the newly reshaped Star Wars universe, even if they hadn't been properly introduced yet. And sure enough, their prayers were soon answered.

In 2016, Disney released a promotional video for the then-upcoming third season of the animated series Star Wars: Rebels, unveiling the character who would serve as one of the main antagonists of the upcoming season. He was a Grand Admiral in the Imperial Fleet, and he dressed in a crisp white naval uniform. And as soon as they saw his striking bright blue skin and glowing red eyes, fans instantly recognized him.

It was Thrawn! Exactly 25 years after his introduction in 1991, it was confirmed that Thrawn had survived the demise of the Expanded Universe, and he was still hanging around in the new continuity after all. Even better: Disney soon announced that they had contracted Thrawn's creator Timothy Zahn—the man who effectively birthed the EU—to write a whole new trilogy of novels about the character, which would introduce him to a whole new generation of fans.

He's not the only character who's made a comeback since 2012: just two months ago (as of this writing) the comic book series Crimson Reign name-dropped the fan-favourite character Prince Xizor (the leader of Black Sun), confirming that he also still exists in the new continuity.

For various reasons, the end of the EU remains a touchy subject among Star Wars fans—but now that it's been confirmed that some of their favourite characters from the EU could (and might) still return, many disenchanted fans are crossing their fingers and hoping for the best. I don't know if that'll be enough to stop the online screaming matches, but it's something.

And if it ever turns out that Mara Jade is still around too, it'll probably break the internet.

(Personally, I'm still holding out hope for the one-armed space princess. But that's another story...)

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A selection of enriching comments from the original post:

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"TheMightyHeptagon" (the original poster) said:

Hey guys. Thank you to everyone who's taken the time to read this post! As you can probably tell: this is a big subject to cover, and it took me a while to write. Due to space limitations, I had to cut a lot of stuff out.

For the benefit of anyone who's curious about what actually happened in the 40 years' worth of stories that I discuss here: I also wrote a short(ish) condensed summary of the story of the Expanded Universe.

Please note: this is by no means an exhaustive account of everything that happened in the Expanded Universe between 1991 and 2013 (that would take hours...), but it should at least give you an idea of the highlights.

Beware spoilers ahead.

So... Beginning shortly after the end of Return of the Jedi, the story goes a little something like this:

The war between the Rebel Alliance and the Galactic Empire drags on for another 15 years, but the Rebels rebrand themselves as "The New Republic" shortly after wresting the Galactic Capital of Coruscant from Imperial control. A full-blown power struggle for control of the galaxy swiftly ensues, and the Empire falls into chaos as various ambitious power brokers vie for the vacant Imperial throne in the wake of Palpatine's death. Numerous would-be Emperors come and go, some more memorable than others. In no particular order, the big ones are:

Carnor Jax, leader of the Imperial Guard.

Ysanne Isard, director of Imperial Intelligence.

Grand Admiral Thrawn, commander of the Imperial Fleet. Notable for being of the few non-humans to rise to a position of power in the Empire, he's a member of a reclusive and xenophobic race of aliens known as the Chiss, who dwell in the Unknown Regions beyond the Outer Rim (like I said: for various reasons, he's a huge fan-favourite).

Natasi Daala, an ambitious admiral in the Imperial Fleet.

Warlord Zsinj. He's, um... a warlord named "Zsinj".

Little by little, the New Republic retakes the galaxy from the Empire. Rogue Squadron becomes a top-notch X-Wing squadron under the leadership of Luke Skywalker's old friend Wedge Antilles, and numerous brave space pilots become widely renowned heroes, with Corran Horn (who turns out to be Force-sensitive, and eventually becomes a Jedi) and Tycho Celchu (a former Imperial pilot who defects to the New Republic, becoming Wedge's wingman and best friend) being among the most notable. Things get a little complicated when Wedge's sister Syal Antilles falls in love with his greatest rival—ace Imperial TIE pilot Baron Soontir Fel—but Fel eventually joins Rogue Squadron after having a crisis of conscience and defecting to the New Republic.

The Empire briefly bounces back after Palpatine rises from the dead with the help of cloning technology and dark Force magic, and even manages to turn Luke to the Dark Side—but Leia manages to save his soul and redeem him.

On a more personal front: Leia and Han finally get married after resolving a brief love triangle involving a filthy rich space prince from a kinky matriarchal planet ruled by women (long story...), but things end happily after Prince Isolder falls in love with a sexy space witch from a different kinky matriarchal planet ruled by women (again: long story). The pair celebrate the births of their twin son and daughter Jacen and Jaina, eventually followed by their second son Anakin.

Also: Luke meets Palptatine's sexy Force-sensitive apprentice and secret personal assassin Mara Jade, who was previously assigned to kill him. Naturally, the two of them fall in love and eventually get married.

Also: Han's asshole cousin Thrackan Sal-Solo starts a rebellion on his home planet, and we learn that Corellia is technically a system of five planets artificially kept in close proximity by a mysterious long-abandoned space station built thousands of years ago by an unknown alien race. Since Centerpoint Station is capable of controlling the orbits of entire planets, it has the potential to become the galaxy's deadliest weapon if it falls into the wrong hands—but it's so old that only a handful of people know how to control it (one of whom is Anakin Solo).

Also: it turns out that Boba Fett survived falling into the Sarlacc's pit, since the fans wouldn't tolerate him staying dead.

Luke also starts his own Jedi Academy and devotes his life to training a new generation of Jedi, including the three Solo kids. There are a few bumps along the way—most notably when a troubled Jedi apprentice named Kyp Durron briefly turns to the Dark Side and uses a lost Imperial superweapon called the "Sun Crusher" to murder millions of people before coming to his senses. Kyp returns to the Light Side, but remains the New Jedi Order's resident brooding bad boy, advocating a more violent approach to protecting the galaxy from evil.

Also: Leia's would-be suitor Prince Isolder and his sexy space witch wife (remember them?) have a daughter named Tenel Ka, who turns out to be Force-sensitive and joins Luke's Jedi Academy, where she eventually falls in love with Han and Leia's son Jacen. Jacen also accidentally cuts off her arm in a tragic accident during lightsaber training, but she gets over it.

After a long string of losses, the former Empire is whittled down to a tiny fraction of its former self, and the Imperial Remnant (now led by Thrawn's old right-hand man Gilad Pellaeon) is forced to give up the ghost and sign a peace treaty with the New Republic, finally bringing the war to an end.

Naturally, the peace proves to be short-lived, and the galaxy is soon invaded by a race of horribly nightmarish alien religious extremists from beyond the galaxy called the Yuuzhan Vong, who practice ritualistic body mutilation and treat torture as a religious sacrament. They also believe that technology is an abomination (all of their spaceships and weapons are organic), and exist entirely outside the influence of the Force. The war against the Yuuzhan Vong kicks off with the death of Chewbacca (yes, really) after they use gravity manipulation to crush him to death with a moon (yes, really). Despite the best efforts of the Jedi and the New Republic, the Yuzzhan Vong unleash untold death and destruction across the galaxy, and countless people are killed—including Anakin Solo.

Finally, the New Republic collapses after Coruscant falls to the Yuuzhan Vong, forcing the fugitive leaders of the New Republic to join forces with the Imperial Remnant to drive them off and retake Coruscant. Thus, a new government called the "Galactic Alliance" rises from the ashes of the New Republic, and eventually manages to defeat the Yuuzhan Vong after the Skywalker-Solo clan finds the Yuuzhan Vong's missing home planet—which is sentient, and can travel through hyperspace (don't ask...).

Amid the doom and gloom of the Yuuzhan Vong war, Luke and Mara have a son named Ben, and we learn that Syal Antilles and her husband Soontir Fel (remember them?) have a son named Jagged (yes, that's really his name...), who's grown into a world-class starfighter pilot after years of training among the Chiss (remember them?). With a name like "Jagged Fel", it probably goes without saying that he's a sexy and mysterious bad boy. So, naturally, he and Jaina Solo eventually fall madly in love.

Things briefly quiet down after the war with the Yuuzhan Vong, with the exception of a brief war with a race of insectoid aliens called the Killiks, who turn out to be the creators of Centerpoint Station (remember Centerpoint Station?). In the intervening years, Ben Skywalker becomes a Jedi, and Jacen has a secret love affair with his childhood girlfriend Tenel Ka (remember her?), the one-armed space princess who's also a space witch. One thing leads to another, and the one-armed space princess gets pregnant with Jacen's daughter.

Years down the line, the galaxy is plunged into civil war yet again when Han's asshole cousin (remember him?) leads the five planets of the Corellian system (remember them?) in a bid to secede from the Galactic Alliance, causing a rift between the Skywalker and Solo families when Han temporarily sides with his home planet, and the Galactic Alliance government takes some rather draconian measures to quash the Corellian independence movement. Amid the chaos, Jacen—who was never really the same after the Yuuzhan Vong war—does some pretty morally questionable things in the name of ending the war and preserving peace, eventually going whole-hog and turning to the Dark Side. Along the way, he forms his own special squad of secret police to root out Corellian terrorists, he kills Mara, he unsuccessfully tries to corrupt Ben Skywalker after taking him under his wing as an apprentice, and his relationship with Tenel Ka permanently breaks down. He also accidentally kills Boba Fett's long-lost daughter Ailyn Vel during an "enhanced interrogation" session gone wrong, giving Fett ample reason to want him dead (which generally isn't great for a person's life expectancy).

In the end, Jaina is forced to save the galaxy by facing her brother (now known as "Darth Caedus") in a duel to the death with a little help from an aging Boba Fett, who has a little experience at the whole Jedi-killing thing. We also learn that Boba Fett has a wife named Sintas Vel and a granddaughter named Mirta Gev who are poised to carry on his legacy.

Things mostly go back to normal after Jacen's death, and Jacen and Tenel Ka's daughter Allana thankfully escapes unscathed. Years after that, the Jedi find themselves plunged into a war with a Lost Tribe of the Sith led by an evil entity called "Abeloth", but the good guys win once again, and Jaina and her sexy ace pilot boyfriend Jagged (remember him?) get married.

In the end, Jagged apparently starts a new Galactic Empire with Jaina by his side and declares himself Emperor, it's implied that Allana may or may not be the real Chosen One destined to bring balance to the Force, and Ben Skywalker carries on the Skywalker name as he continues to train as a Jedi. And 100-odd years after that, Luke's descendant Cade Skywalker (a disillusioned former Jedi turned bad boy smuggler) helps save the galaxy from a reborn Sith Empire led by the evil Darth Krayt, a fallen Jedi raised by Tuskens on Tatooine (don't ask...). The details about what happened in between those events are pretty vague—but the important thing is that the good guys win, and the galaxy is safe and at peace. And the Force will be with us, always.

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"ToaArcan" said:

A lot of the most bitter online fighting centred around the missteps the EU had made, with regard to the post-movie timeline. Look into any pre-2014 article about the weirdness of the Star Wars novels and comics, and you'll see a pretty interesting list of things that fans and casuals alike took issue with.

Han and Leia's son turning evil. A million superweapons that make the Death Star not remotely special. The deaths of iconic movie characters. Cloning the Emperor. Luke turning to the Dark Side.

When the EU was jumped, there were people who were looking at the silver lining. Sure, we'd lost Thrawn and Mara Jade and all that good stuff. But we'd also dumped all the really stupid shit like BDSM 40K rejects that whip people with eels, or that time Darth Vader totally had a Buzzcut McWhiteboy apprentice who could kick every other Jedi and Sith's arse one-handed, you guys. Karen Traviss would never again touch Star Wars!

Of course, the dismissal of the EU as a load of trash with one or two bright spots only made the diehards angrier, and that, at least, seemed to be justifiable. It also got pretty awkward when the dust settled on the Sequel Trilogy and we had an evil Solo spawn, an even bigger Death Star and a whole fleet of planet-killing Star Destroyers, all of the original trio dead, an Emperor clone, and a Luke who, while he didn't turn evil, definitely ended up going in a much darker direction than most fans liked.

On the whole, post-Disney buy-out Star Wars has been slow to reintroduce the elements of the EU that fans actually liked, like Thrawn and Boba Fett's survival, but sure as f*** did rehash a lot of the things people used to mock the EU for in the first place. Fortunately no eel-whips yet, but we're never truly safe. And of course, the Disney canon is rapidly becoming another self-referential bloated beast of a franchise, just like its father before it.

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"TastyBrainMeats" replied to "ToaArcan":

[Mention of Karen Traviss]

Beware, lest you summon her weird fanboys.

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"ChristmasColor" replied to "TastyBrainMeats":

I was a fan of her books. I enjoyed her pointing out the Jedi were weird for using slaves.

What makes her so controversial?

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An unknown Reddit user replied to "ChristmasColor":

I think her stuff for the Clone Wars era is mostly liked. She tends to go a little overboard with her "the Jedi were the real villains" shtick, but Lucas is the one who made them weird dogmatic virgins with no compunction whatsoever with using child slave soldiers that some mysterious benefactor just sort of left on their doorstep with no explanation, so it's hard to blame her. She tends to take more of a gritty military fiction approach to Star Wars, which can be somewhat divisive, but I really like that aspect of her work, and I think the EU could have benefitted from a little more diversity of style honestly.

The main reason she's hated is her contributions to the Legacy of the Force series, where her "Mando" fetish really got out of hand. The Mandos got thrown into the centre of the story, despite playing almost no role in the EU after Return of the Jedi up to that point, and Traviss spends half of her books talking about how awesome and better than everyone else the Mandalorians are: they can beat up Jedi without breaking a sweat, their ships are indestructible and specifically described as faster and having more firepower than X-Wings, their culture is loving and inclusive and family oriented but also everyone is trained to be a super-awesome warrior from birth, and so on. It comes across as forced, unmotivated, and disrespectful to the existing lore.

And to cap it all off, it often seems like the only way she knows how to build one of her self-insert characters up is to tear some other character down. The way she shows that Mandos are awesome at hand-to-hand combat is by having them repeatedly beat the s*** out of Jaina Solo when she's training with them, and having Jaina's inner monologue read like "Man, I wish I was a Mando. These guys are so cool and I'm just this pampered Jedi princess who's never had to work for anything in my life" (despite fighting on the front lines of a brutal war since she was like 15 years old and by this point being a 30-year-old decorated fighter pilot, fully trained Jedi, and galaxy-wide famous war hero).

I've never read her Republic Commando books (I've never been all that interested in the Prequel era), but her Legacy of the Force books are full of obnoxious Mary-Sue author inserts, mean-spirited characterizations of beloved characters, and a petty refusal to make her stories flow together with the ones written by Allston and Denning (though she's far from alone in that last sin, as the authors of Legacy of the Force did not play well together for some reason). Apparently, Traviss also had a habit for a while of getting in online flame wars with fans and calling the Jedi "nazis" and shit like that, which rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but I never heard of any of that until years later.

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"ZeitgeistGlee" replied to "ChristmasColor":

"I enjoyed her pointing out the Jedi were weird for using slaves."

The issue is that Traviss was hilariously one-sided in her criticism, she mischaracterised, picked at or overplayed minor faults or outright wrote new ones in the Jedi Order and their characterisation to justify her (character's) positions, and then handwaved or whitewashed or lionised the toxic behaviour and culture of her Mandalorians and their history.

The "Jedi use slaves" is a good example of that: they didn't "use slaves", they were ordered to take command of the Republic's Clone Army and fight the Separatists, and better authors than Traviss specifically paralleled the experience of the Clones with Jedi (both groups being made up of children raised into service culture segregated from the rest of society).

If I remember correctly, the Revenge of the Sith novelisation specifically has Palpatine monologue that the entire Clone Wars conflict was constructed to destroy the Jedi whether they participated or not. If they fought, then the horrors of a galactic-scale war would break them down psychologically, spiritually and literally, as well as spread them out so the remainder could be killed all in one swoop by Order 66 once Palpatine had seized power; if they'd refused to fight and withdrawn to the Jedi Temple or one of their alternate academy worlds, then they'd have been painted as cowards/traitors who could be executed all in one spot at the end of the war without complaint.

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"ZeitgeistGlee" replied to the unknown Reddit user:

"I've never read her Republic Commando books (I've never been all that interested in the Prequel era), but her Legacy of the Force books are full of obnoxious Mary-Sue author inserts, mean-spirited characterizations of beloved characters [...]."

Her Clone Wars novels after the first one or two are exactly the same as her Legacy of the Force stuff. Kal Skirata was a particularly obnoxious version of her Mary-Sue Mando culture, and then there's Etain, her pet Jedi who dies defending one of the clones assaulting the Jedi Temple from Padawan trying to escape.

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"mxzf" replied to "ToaArcan":

"On the whole, post-Disney buy-out Star Wars has been slow to reintroduce the elements of the EU that fans actually liked, like Thrawn and Boba Fett's survival, but sure as f*** did rehash a lot of the things people used to mock the EU for in the first place."

This is really the crux of it. Disney got rid of all of the EU material and then pretty much only brought back the worst parts of it.

In theory, they were house-cleaning and were able to bring the better parts of the EU back into the fold. But instead, they took the worst parts of the EU and chose to bring them back while leaving the best material abandoned.

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"ToaArcan" replied to "mxzf":

There's been good stuff too. The aforementioned return of Boba, and him being re-canonised as a Mandalorian. Thrawn's still kicking, and while the Old Republic continues to limp on in Legends, they've at least started referencing Revan in canon again. Delta Squad are a thing again, Filoni got them into The Clone Wars and Scorch showed up properly in Bad Batch.

But it's taken a lot longer for those pieces to come back into play, while the movies were quick to jump on some of the worst ideas. Not all of the things they did opt to bring back were bad, but a lot of them were, and the execution leaves a lot to be desired. The Force Awakens played everything extremely safe, too safe. The Last Jedi was bold and challenging, and I enjoyed it very much, but bringing Abrams back for The Rise of Skywalker and having its script mostly written by the comments section of a MauLer video retroactively made it a whole lot worse. And then The Rise of Skywalker itself is just a trainwreck of epic proportions. I still had fun seeing it in the cinema, but I'm in no rush to watch it again.

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"UnsealedMTG" said:

This is a fun memory lane journey as a 1980s-born Star Wars fan. For that generation, Star Wars really did feel like a more niche, albeit common, interest. For our formative years, no movies had been released in theatres since either before we were, like, 3 years old or (for me) before we were born. So Star Wars was just a finished "thing" in a way that it wouldn't have been to people who were born earlier—or to people who were born a little later and had the Prequels and The Clone Wars and everything else come out while they were in the real target age bracket.

Sure, "everyone" had seen Star Wars but being into it was more akin to being really into comic books or fantasy novels than, like, the MCU or Game of Thrones when it was on (to name cultural phenomena that would have seemed practically unthinkable in the 1990s).

And of course as one of those people I have to push my glasses up and make one comment—not a correction, but just another reframing to put you back in the early 1990s:

"(specifically: a member of a newly introduced species known as the 'Chiss')"

It was actually much more mysterious than this! Thrawn's species was pointedly not named in the original. He's just blue and has glowy eyes and is an alien. What species he comes from and how he come to be highly ranked in the human supremacist Empire is left as part of his mystique at that point.

It wasn't until Zahn's much later Visions of the Future—released in 1998, towards the end of that core EU era in the 90s before The Phantom Menace in 1999—that Thrawn's species got a name.

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"TheMightyHeptagon" (the original poster) replied to "UnsealedMTG":

Ah, thank you for the correction! I must confess: it's been a while since I've actually read the Thrawn Trilogy.

I can relate! As a Star Wars fan born in the early 1990s, I was sort of tangentially aware of the EU just as it was taking off, but it was all pretty mysterious to me since I was way too young to read most of it at the time. I have distinct memories of seeing all the Star Wars novels on the shelves of my local library and bookstore whenever I went there with my parents when I was about 4 or 5 years old and wondering why I didn't recognize half the characters on the dust jackets. That sense of befuddlement eventually inspired me to take a deep dive into the EU when I was a teenager.

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"UnsealedMTG" replied to "TheMightyHeptagon":

I think that also speaks a little bit to the "geek culture" thing about Star Wars in the 1990s, too. I mean... Now there's Wookiepedia. Anyone with any amount of interest, a smartphone, a few minutes, and the ability to get through Fandom's intrusive ads can know anything about those mysterious characters in the books. There's no barrier of effort.

In the 1990s, if you wanted to gather that knowledge about the Star Wars galaxy, you had to go out of your way and either read the books themselves or go get one of the dictionaries or encyclopedias that they published to dig out that information.

I think that makes it more understandable how people reacted to the transition, even if the transition was clearly inevitable and a lot of people on the "Pro-EU" faction were kind of toxic gatekeep-y dicks. This old EU information was something people had gathered through effort that creates a feeling of meaning. To them, saying it "doesn't count now" isn't just saying that some things that didn't happen... extra didn't happen. It's taking something that they worked to collect and invalidating it.

Now, I'm personally a person who is much more interested in the history of how the stories were told in our chronology than in the details of the actual in-universe world so the canon status/non-status is not a big deal emotionally to me.* But it's at least something that follows logically from the sort of information collector mentality that the Star Wars EU and properties like it really encouraged.

(*Which is why I'm interested in stuff like how Thrawn was originally a "unique blue alien guy" and only later did they introduce a "whole species of Thrawns", and why I get annoyed when finding the history of how the words "Sith" and "Mandalorian" got used in Star Wars is so much harder than it is to find the cobbled-together and retconned in-universe histories of the Sith and Mandalorians)

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"DocWhoFan16" said:

The Courtship of Princess Leia is absolutely ludicrous, honestly a very stupid book, and it is also genuinely one of my favourite Star Wars stories in any medium ever.

In this book, Space Fabio shows up to try and woo Princess Leia. Han gets jealous and tries to win her over by... winning a planet in a card game where she can re-house the refugees from Alderaan. Leia isn't too impressed, so Han's response is... to use the "gun of command", a blaster which essentially shoots mind control, to kidnap her and fly her off to this planet he's won: Dathomir.

Dathomir, as it happens, is deep in the territory of the Imperial warlord Zsinj, but Han doesn't let that perturb him. Then they get to Dathomir and learn that it's this matriarchal society of Force witches. Also, Zsinj has an orbiting network of satellites which, for all intents and purposes, allow him to turn off the sun. Space Fabio and Luke follow them, crash-land on Dathomir and get picked up by one of the Force witches, who has this weird Mills & Boon romance storyline. I'm pretty sure it's implied that Yoda might have shagged a witch when he visited years ago.

All the while, C-3PO becomes this weird matchmaker trying to set Han and Leia up. He tries to prove that Han has royal blood so he can marry a princess, only to discover that Han's supposed royal ancestor is a notorious pirate who was actually a pretender to the throne.

(The most frustrating thing about that last point is that one of the tie-in reference books from years later actually went ahead and revealed that, yes, the ancient prince of Corellia who once dominated the ancient Republic was called... Solo. To me, that sort of missed the point, but I admit I had long since grown out of Star Wars novels by then!)

Is it especially well-written? Not really. But it's creative. It's interested in what Star Wars can be, far more than what it should be (and if I have one criticism of Tim Zahn, it's that he often seemed to lean a bit more in the latter direction). See also: The Crystal Star, in which Space Hitler kidnaps Han's and Leia's children so he can feed them to a gold-plated meat monster from another dimension who has promised to increase his Force powers, and the galaxy is full of centaurs and werewolves and stuff like that.

I think after 1999, when the licence leaves Bantam Spectra and goes to Del Rey and Lucasfilm starts exerting a lot more top-down control (and this is across the board in all media, not just with novels), the Expanded Universe lost a lot of that. I think it became a lot more homogenous, at least aesthetically.

Consider something like the Knights of the Old Republic video games. Those are fairly good games. But they look like the Prequel movies! They're set four thousand years ago, but they look like the Prequels. Compare that with comics like Tales of the Jedi or (my personal favourite) Jedi vs Sith, which look properly ancient while still looking like Star Wars.

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"Lastjedibestjedi" replied to "DocWhoFan16":

You leaving out the Rancor riding in the middle of all this other madness is a war crime.

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"DocWhoFan16" replied to "Lastjedibestjedi":

Yes, and I also forgot that the creatures in The Crystal Star are actually called "wyrwulfs" rather than "werewolves", sorry.

How about the half of Children of the Jedi where Luke falls in love with the computer on a lost Imperial super-weapon which was designed to kidnap Jedi children, except it's not really a computer, it's really the disembodied spirit of an Old Republic Jedi which is trapped in the computer, and at the end of the book, she sort of reincarnates in the body of one of Luke's hot young Jedi students.

Barbara Hambly was specifically instructed that, in that novel, she had to introduce the perfect love interest for Luke Skywalker. Then a couple of books later, nobody likes Callista, and Hambly is back to write Planet of Twilight (the one where Leia has a lightsabre fight with a Hutt) and she's told that this time her job is to get rid of the perfect love interest for Luke Skywalker, which she does in a couple of pages right at the end of the book.

How about the time the Young Jedi Knights met a group called "the Diversity Alliance" whose ostensible ideology was anti-racism and opposition to human supremacism in the New Republic and who are led by a former Twi'lek slave (and because this is the Star Wars EU, this Twi'lek was the sister of Oola from Return of the Jedi BECAUSE OF COURSE SHE WAS), but their real plan is to commit genocide against humans using stolen Imperial bio-weapons. Because the anti-racists are the real racists (IT MAKES U THINK).

Seriously, I appreciate that Kevin J. Anderson in 1998 or whenever it was had benign intentions to do "racism is bad" stories in the YA series, but... Look, it's a faction of villains called "the Diversity Alliance" whose opposition to racism is actually a cover to kill all white people humans, and it's up to Han and Leia's kids to stop them. That sounds like some kind of parody of nerds on the Internet in 2022, doesn't it?

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the pre-1999 novels a lot (don't really like the ones on the Del Rey era, but that's neither here nor there; the comics are still good after that point, though), but it's very much a "warts and all" thing.

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"bhamv" said:

"(Personally, I'm still holding out hope for the one-armed space princess. But that's another story...)"

Ah. Ah ha. I am glad that someone else shares my fondness for Tenel Ka.

I was a huge fan of the EU. I didn't read every book, but I read a lot of them, and the sheer depth of the lore was amazing. It was like swimming in a vast ocean that always threw up something new and fascinating for you to see.

In particular, I thought Xizor was a great antagonist, and I'm glad to see that he might reappear in the new canon some day.

EDIT: Also, one of the plot threads suggested in Legends that has unfortunately been abandoned is that the Emperor foresaw the invasion of the Yuuzhan Vong, which is why he took over the galaxy and had the Death Star built. The galaxy had to be united to fight such a foe, so it needed a weapon capable of taking out the Vong's moon-sized world-ships. Stuff like this adds so much depth to the motivations of existing characters, and I much prefer it to the simple "this space station will help us rule by fear" motivation in the movies.

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"Coronarchivista" replied to "bhamv":

Or in Heir to the Empire, where Thrawn speculates that the reason the Imperials lost the Battle of Endor despite far outnumbering the Rebels is that Palpatine was using "battle meditation" to coordinate the Imperial fleet, and when Vader threw him down the shaft, the Imperial fleet was thrown into chaos and routed.

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"FuttleScich" replied to "bhamv":

I always thought the "Palpatine just wanted to help" thing was the worst part of the old EU, and I’m glad it’s dead.

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"DocWhoFan16" replied to "FuttleScich":

It did get a bit of "Hitler just wanted to make Europe strong enough to fight the Soviet Union" some of the time.

#star wars #star wars expanded universe #star wars eu #sw eu #sw legends #star wars legends #essay #transcription #fandom discourse #fandom history #fandom culture #star wars history #star wars fandom #star wars discourse

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mala-sadas · 3 years

Text

On the Legendary Wolves’ Plot in Pokéspe SWSH

I really like the way the legendary wolves’ plot is being handled in Pokespe so far. They’ve made a handful of changes and additions to the plot as it’s presented in the games that make it feel integral to the main characters and the overarching story, as well as just being more interesting to follow.

Part of the reason why this plotline is weak in the games is because it’s presented as just a minor subplot. You occasionally get more information about what really happened as you progress through the game, but it doesn’t seem important for you to pay attention to it until you get to the climax and Rose reveals that he’s caused the Darkest Day. Even though you encounter Zacian or Zamazenta in the Slumbering Weald at the beginning of the game, it’s not until Circhester that Hop connects that encounter to the legend you’re unraveling. And in the grand scheme of things, all that encounter does is confirm that the sword and shield Pokémon live in the Slumbering Weald - which Sonia apparently also learns about in a book that mentions Zacian and Zamazenta by name. So, why was it necessary, again?

But right out of the gate, Spe immediately ties the legendary wolves into the main characters’ backstory and motivations. A year prior to the beginning of the chapter, Sou goes to the Slumbering Weald to try to find the Rusted Sword and Rusted Shield. He knows about them – and has an interest in them – because he’s from a family of swordsmiths, and he wants to see genuine, historical pieces of armor in person. Meanwhile, Schilly goes to the Weald to look for a Wishing Star that she had seen falling, since she wants to get it made into a Dynamax Band. The pair encounter the illusory Zacian and Zamazenta, and Sou immediately comes to the conclusion that these two are here to protect the Rusted Sword and Rusted Shield – a conclusion supported by the fact that when they walk through the illusions to try to take a look at the artifacts, they’re knocked out by a flash of light. When they awaken, the Rusted Sword and Rusted Shield are gone - as are all of Schilly’s Pokémon. Sou decides to start traveling with Schilly because he feels partly responsible for her Pokémon going missing, and Schilly decides to compete in the Gym Challenge to spread the word about her missing Pokémon and make it easier for her to find them. Additionally, it’s later revealed that Sou decided to participate in the Gym Challenge so he can get stronger and challenge Zacian and Zamazenta to a battle, believing that they’ll only allow someone with skill as a Trainer and an earnest desire to see the Rusted Sword and Rusted Shield to see the artifacts in person.

So, in short, the reason why Sou and Schilly met and their respective reasons for taking on the Gym Challenge are both intrinsically linked to their encounter with the legendary wolves. This makes the wolves’ presence relevant throughout the whole story, ensuring that the reader doesn’t forget about the encounter by the time it becomes relevant again. (I also appreciate that they gave the wolves a concrete reason to appear before the protags in the Weald, something which the games and anime never really bothered to provide.)

Additionally, the decision to introduce the Rusted Sword and Rusted Shield right away instead of saving their introduction for the climax like what happens in the games was a really smart choice. First, it ties directly into Sou’s interests, giving him a good reason to be interested in the Rusted Sword and Rusted Shield as well as the other legends involving swords and shields. Second, it allows the characters to link together the encounter with Zacian and Zamazenta to the information they’re learning about the legends - Sou observes that the sword and shield held by the statue of the hero in Motostoke as well as the sword and shield depicted on the Hammerlocke tapestries resemble the Rusted Sword and Rusted Shield, suggesting that the legends have a connection to the artifacts. And when I say “suggesting”, I don’t just mean in the sense that it’s something you can interpolate from the text. I mean that Sou literally says, “It’s not entirely unlikely that the three are all the same,” and Raihan brings up later that if they’re the same sword and shield, the legendary wolves may be connected to these events in some way as well.

This is another thing that I really appreciate about the way that Pokéspe is handling this plotline: the characters actually speculate, hypothesize, and draw conclusions about the evidence that they’re being presented with. In the games, most of the encounters with Sonia just involve you pointing out incredibly obvious things about the historical artifact/legend, and Sonia agreeing that they’re significant. She asks a lot of questions, but doesn’t postulate answers to them unless they’re directly being shown to you. And even some of the conclusions she draws seem like leaps of logic, like when she assumes that the statue behind the Stow-on-Side mural must be correct because it was made in “truly ancient times” - like, we just discovered this statue, Sonia. We have no idea how old it is.

But in Spe, the characters draw logical conclusions from the information they have, which means they can figure things out a lot faster than they do in the games and makes the conversation interesting to read whenever they learn new information. For example, Sou speculates that the sword and shield wielded by the hero might’ve had special powers, which is true. How did he figure this out? He explains that he thought about it because the hero used them to fight giant, rampaging Pokémon, which is a bit difficult to accomplish with a normal sword and shield.

Another great example of this is in Hammerlocke vault, when Sou guesses that Chairman Rose wants to cause the Darkest Day. One might think that he’s figuring things out way too quickly, but the thing is, this conclusion makes perfect sense given the information he has. While looking at the tapestries, Sou notices that the first one depicts a Wishing Star falling and the second one depicts the Darkest Day occurring. Thus, he guesses that Wishing Stars might have caused the Darkest Day, a hypothesis that Sonia agrees with because they’ve already figured out that the Darkest Day has a connection to Dynamaxing, and Wishing Stars cause Dynamaxing. But Sou had previously learned from Bede that Chairman Rose is collecting a massive amount of Wishing Stars, so it’s only natural that his next thought would be to wonder if Chairman Rose is - advertently or inadvertently - going to cause the Darkest Day again. This immediately ties the Rose plot in with the legendary wolves’ plot, a connection that doesn’t start to be made until your third visit to Hammerlocke in the games.

In general, the Hammerlocke vault scene is way better in Spe than it is in the games, where all you get is Sonia saying that the disaster depicted is probably the Darkest Day and wondering if there was one hero or two. Besides the conclusions that I already mentioned, Sonia also connects the disaster shown in the tapestries to the disaster shown in the Turffield geoglyph, concluding that they’re both depictions of the Darkest Day. However, Sou points out the lack of giant Pokémon in the tapestries, which are always associated with the Darkest Day. I really like how they point out both the similarities and the differing details between the stories, which makes it a little more understandable why no one has ever put together that this myth of the creation of Galar and the legend of the Darkest Day might be referring to the same event.

Finally, the last major improvement that I want to talk about is the one that was introduced in the latest chapter: an explanation for why the legendary wolves’ existence was lost from the legends. The destruction of the Stow-on-Side mural happens offscreen in this story, which is kind of understandable - the main significance of this statue in the games was to introduce the concept of Pokémon being involved in the legend, which Sou, Sonia, and Raihan had already figured out. This statue holds a completely different significance here: when Sonia is telling the protagonists about the newly discovered ruins, she says that she thinks the mural was put up by someone who wanted to deliberately hide the two Pokémon from the legend, giving all the credit to the humans. She points out the tapestry at Bob’s Your Uncle as further proof of this, which - given its condition - looks like someone threw it away so it would disappear from history.

I don’t believe that the games ever explain how the tapestry ended up in the restaurant, so the fact that it’s given any sort of context here is really neat. But more importantly than that, it’s really interesting that they’re stating outright that the legendary wolves were deliberately removed from the legend. In the games, Sonia wonders why the ruins at Stow-on-Side would be hidden, but doesn’t offer an explanation - she doesn’t even say anything to suggest that it was done intentionally. The question is never brought up again. So I’m really hoping that Spe won’t go that route, and this revelation will have broader implications in the story next chapter or even later - that we’re going to find out who covered it up, or possibly that someone in the present day knows about the cover-up and is willingly propagating it. The immediate assumption is that it’ll be connected to Sordward and Shielbert in some way, since they benefit from the legend being that their ancestors were the heroes who saved Galar. But I think it could also be interesting if we find out that Rose knew about the statue and is deliberately trying to keep the existence of the sword and shield Pokémon covered up - it’d make a lot of sense why he was so unforgiving to Bede for trying to destroy the mural if that were true. Either way, I’m excited to see where they take this concept.

tl;dr The way Pokéspe has been handling the plot points related to the legendary wolves has been really good so far, much better than it was in the games, and I’m very excited to see how it develops going forward!

#pokespe #pokemon special #swsh chapter #analysis #trainer sonia #trainer sou #trainer soudo #zacian #zamazenta #i spent way too long on this #please read and appreciate it #also it has given me a much greater appreciation for sou as a character #he's at his best when history is involved tbh

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millenniumblog · 3 years

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[ID: A chart describing the core values of each of the nine Enneagram personality types with YuGiOh characters correlated to each of the types.]

YuGiOh Enneagram Analysis, Part #1

Please note that this is the “boring” informational post about Enneagram with the Types listed and explained as well as a few other things. The next post is what has the actual, in-depth character profiles promised!

Introduction & Motivation

Over the past several months, I have been trying to analyze my strengths and weaknesses as a writer and learn more. I have been writing fanfiction since I was a little kid, making my first FF.net account in 2003 when I would have been twelve years old. Even before that, I was a lurker and wrote fics to share with my childhood best friend on paper or floppy discs.

YuGiOh came into my life at some point shortly thereafter. I know this, because I spent my thirteenth birthday in a comic book shop, mostly watching some of my male friends play the trading card game. I had some of the cards, but I was never much of a player, unable to keep up with the seemingly rapid rule changes. Besides that, I was always way more interested in the story and characters than I was in the card game. I remember I even wanted to call “YuGiOh cards” “Duel Monsters” instead to make it seem a little closer to tween-y LARPing.

Eventually, I gave up on collecting cards or trying to ply the game. I felt that while my male friends didn’t mind me being around when they played, they weren’t extremely interested in helping me learn or keep up. I felt I had other strengths, so I started carrying around a notebook even more than I already did. I started my fledgling forays into online fandom. And YuGiOh was a big part of the beginning of that.

I can’t remember posting any YuGiOh fic in particular, and I’m sure that if I had it would make me cringe now. What I do remember is reading some and also spending a lot of time lying on my bed, headphones plugged into a small purple stereo, listening to the first of the two American-released CDs with YuGiOh-inspired music on them. In particular, the last three tracks were pieces of music from the original score composed for the 4Kids dub, which is - for some reason - different from the original Japanese music.

During that time, I would fantasize and conjure my own YuGiOh plots in my head, most of which were focused on the Ancient Egyptian and more spooky, spiritual, and horror themes in the show. I was really fascinated with the reincarnation angle, though my understanding of and opinions on how that works have grown with time.

Years went by, and I didn’t think about YuGiOh much at all. Then, something happened in 2018. I don’t know what got in my head, but it was like all the joy I once found in thinking about the YuGiOh characters came back in a giddy conversation with my childhood best friend. Then, for a little while, it wouldn’t leave me alone.

I started writing for the fandom then, and after several detours, I’m trying to get back in the groove of it.

My approach to the tone of YuGiOh-fanning is that it’s a bit serious, but it’s also with a tongue placed in my cheek because of how incomprehensible or silly the plot can be on a meta level. Sometimes, it almost brings tears to my eyes by being so over-the-top about something that, in the real world, would make no sense at all. But the drama, in the context of the universe, somehow rings true.

I think that’s all owing to how most of the primary characters are just... really freaking great characters.

It has often puzzled me. Like, did Takahashi do all this layering on purpose? Is it really there, or did earnest fanon just make it seem like it? And, as a person, I am always here for a good fan-and-canon symbiosis.

This post is going to be, from here on, an effort to match the YuGiOh characters to the 9 Enneagram Personality Types. I am writing this for my own benefit as I continue to work on my pet YuGiOh fanfiction project, It’s Always Sunny in Domino City, which is a mixture of YGOTAS-vibes-and-concepts taken seriously and a sincere take on fanfiction for the actual canon. It’s dramedy about a sizeable chunk of the main cast a few years post-canon with some canon divergence such as the Memory World arc not yet and possibly never-happening. If that sounds like something you’d like, I would humbly request you check it out!

Either way, this will be an in-depth character analysis cheatsheet for all of the characters above, based on my observations, opinions, and feelings. I invite discussion, but it’s fine if we need to agree to totally disagree!

If you are interested and enjoy what’s below the Read More and in the coming second post, then you are welcome to utilize the character analyses to aid you in your own fanwork!

Enneagram

What is Enneagram, and why am I using it?

Enneagram is a personality categorization system that one might compare to the somewhat better-known MBTI. However, in the words of excellent writing-advice YouTuber, Abbie Emmons:

MBTI shows us how we behave.

Enneagram shows us what we believe.

I will be referencing Abbie’s video Using The ENNEAGRAM To Write CONFLICTED CHARACTERS and her free Enneagram-cheatsheet, available in the description of the linked video. Whether it’s before you continue reading or after, if you’re interested in writing, I would highly recommend you check out her channel!

The Enneagram system has nine basic personality types that overlap and interact in really interesting ways. It is not a hard science, and it’s not a horoscope. Instead, it’s supposed to be “based on conventional wisdom and modern psychology.” All I can say is that with every set of characters I’ve tried it with, it works! Once you get the hang of it, it feels kind of like ~✰~magic~✰~!

Below, I will list Abbie’s simplified definitions of each of the personality types, in order:

Type 1: The Reformer

The Rational, Idealistic Type:

Principled, Purposeful, Self-Controlled, and Perfectionistic

Basic Fear: Of being corrupt/evil, defective

Basic Desire: To be good, to have integrity, to be balanced

Key Motivations: Want to be right, to strive higher and improve everything, to be consistent with their ideals, to justify themselves, to be beyond criticism so as not to be condemned by anyone.

Type 2: The Helper

The Caring, Interpersonal Type:

Generous, Demonstrative, People-Pleasing, and Possessive

Basic Fear: Of being unwanted, unworthy of being loved

Basic Desire: To feel loved

Key Motivations: Want to be loved, to express their feelings for others, to be needed and appreciated, to get others to respond to them, to vindicate their claims about themselves.

Type 3: The Achiever

The Success-Oriented, Pragmatic Type:

Adaptable, Excelling, Driven, and Image-Conscious

Basic Fear: Of being worthless

Basic Desire: To feel valuable and worthwhile

Key Motivations: Want to be affirmed, to distinguish themselves from others, to have attention, to be admired, and to impress others.

Type 4: The Individualist

The Sensitive, Introspective Type:

Expressive, Dramatic, Self-Absorbed, and Temperamental

Basic Fear: That they have no identity or personal significance

Basic Desire: To find themselves and their significance (to create an identity)

Key Motivations: Want to express themselves and their individuality, to create and surround themselves with beauty, to maintain certain moods and feelings, to withdraw to protect their self-image, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else, to attract a "rescuer."

Type 5: The Investigator

The Intense, Cerebral Type:

Perceptive, Innovative, Secretive, and Isolated

Basic Fear: Being useless, helpless, or incapable

Basic Desire: To be capable and competent

Key Motivations: Want to possess knowledge, to understand the environment, to have everything figured out as a way of defending the self from threats from the environment.

Type 6: The Loyalist

The Committed, Security-Oriented Type:

Engaging, Responsible, Anxious, and Suspicious

Basic Fear: Of being without support and guidance

Basic Desire: To have security and support

Key Motivations: Want to have security, to feel supported by others, to have certitude and reassurance, to test the attitudes of others toward them, to fight against anxiety and insecurity.

Type 7: The Enthusiast

The Busy, Variety-Seeking Type:

Spontaneous, Versatile, Acquisitive, and Scattered

Basic Fear: Of being deprived and in pain

Basic Desire: To be satisfied and content—to have their needs fulfilled

Key Motivations: Want to maintain their freedom and happiness, to avoid missing out on worthwhile experiences, to keep themselves excited and occupied, to avoid and discharge pain.

Type 8: The Challenger

The Powerful, Dominating Type:

Self-Confident, Decisive, Willful, and Confrontational

Basic Fear: Of being harmed or controlled by others

Basic Desire: To protect themselves (to be in control of their own life and destiny)

Key Motivations: Want to be self-reliant, to prove their strength and resist weakness, to be important in their world, to dominate the environment, and to stay in control of their situation.

Type 9: The Peacemaker

The Easygoing, Self-Effacing Type:

Receptive, Reassuring, Agreeable, and Complacent

Basic Fear: Of loss and separation

Basic Desire: To have inner stability, "peace of mind"

Key Motivations: Want to create harmony in their environment, to avoid conflicts and tension, to preserve things as they are, to resist whatever would upset or disturb them.

Now that you’ve seen all those, what do you think your favorite character is? In YuGiOh or anything else! It works great for original characters and even yourself and your loved ones.

The actual Character Profiles will be in coming post(s), but continue reading if you want me to explain more about how and why the Enneagram is a great personality typing system. #nonspon, or whatever.

The Enneagram Chart

Now, you could just go to the Enneagram Institute’s page on How the System Works, but below I’ll cut it down to only the parts I’m interested in and explain those in a way that helps me.

Unlike in astrology or MBTI, which are both more restrictive in different ways, the relative position of each type matters a bit on the Enneagram chart, because it can be used to visualize a lot of things about a person!

The Basic Chart

The Types are shown in a clockwise fashion with “1″ in the 1 o’clock position on an analog clock. The interior lines mean things, but I have trouble reading it without further delineation.

Centers of Response

Below are two small charts, displayed side-by-side. (If it’s too small, try right-click, open in new tab!)

The chart on the left shows the three “centers.” The “centers” indicate the first ‘processing language’ a person would use to respond to stimuli.

Type 8, Type 9, and Type 1 respond first based on instinct (primal, gut-feeling). If you want to go Freudian, this is from the id.

Type 2, Type 3, and Type 4 respond first based on feelings (social or personal desires, the heart). If you want to go Freudian, this is from the ego.

Type 5, Type 6, and Type 7 respond first based on thoughts (analytical rather than emotional, the head). If you want to go Freudian, this is from the superego.

Remember that, of course, every single type and person engages their instincts, their emotions, and their thoughts at different times and to different degrees, and some of these are learned or changed behaviors. This is about what their innate drive toward that would be.

Likewise, the same “centers” can also be used for the chart on the right. You will notice that all three of these are defined by what is typically considered a negative emotion. This is because this is about a person’s instinctive, not particularly conscious emotional response when they are backed into a corner and deprived of something that is core to the needs of their personality type.

Type 8, Type 9, and Type 1 tend to respond to a threat to their psychic well-being with anger/rage.

Type 2, Type 3, and Type 4 tend to respond to a threat to their psychic well-being with shame.

Type 5, Type 6, and Type 7 tend to respond to a threat to their psychic well-being with fear.

Stress vs. Growth

We all know that there are times when a person isn’t acting like themselves, for better or for worse. Usually, “You’re not acting like yourself,” means that a person is behaving badly. Of course, it’s way easier to withdraw and bristle and defend rather than growing in the midst of adversity. However, it is certainly possible to experience character growth in response to experiences, good and bad. Unlike a lot of other personality typing schemes, the Enneagram has a way to display and predict what stress and growth do to a person.

The Enneagram never suggests that any Type is an island unto itself. Every person contains multitudes, but a person’s Type is likely to remain relatively stable throughout their lives, once they have had a chance to develop any personality at all. This means that when a person is stressed or growing that they do not become the type they emulate. Rather, they are more highly expressing that aspects of their personality that reflect those drives and desires but in a way that is either fraught, sickly, or unwell (in the case of stress), or aspirational, flying-high, and incorporating the hard-lessons into who a person is going to be going forward (in the case of growth). The latter, especially, isn’t a sustainable mode, while a stressed person can become more entrenched in their bad habits and defensive coping mechanisms.

Stress

Note the white, directional arrows. Each number has an arrow point pointing to it and an arrow leading away from it. The point indicates that this is the stress manifestation for the Type at the origin of that arrow. The origin of each arrow indicates the Type being described.

Confused? Let me finally give you a YuGiOh example.

When I was trying to identify the Types of the characters, defining Marik was difficult, because he has a “Yami,” or Dark Side, which has its own personality and will but which is not its own separate soul or person than Marik himself. Rather, it’s a kind of fantasy/magic-assisted personality splintering where Yami Marik is a full manifestation of the negative traits Marik needed to embody to survive.

So, for reference:

When stressed, Type 1 behaves more like Type 4.

When stressed, Type 2 behaves more like Type 8.

When stressed, Type 3 behaves more like Type 9.

When stressed, Type 4 behaves more like Type 2.

When stressed, Type 5 behaves more like Type 7.

When stressed, Type 6 behaves more like Type 3.

When stressed, Type 7 behaves more like Type 1.

When stressed, Type 8 behaves more like Type 5.

When stressed, Type 9 behaves more like Type 6.

Alternatively, you can use these sequences to follow the stress lines:

1-4-2-8-5-7-1

9-6-3-9

Growth

Think of the above-explanation in reverse.

The sequence:

1-7-5-8-2-4-1

9-3-6-9

As a Type 1 grows, they incorporate more positive traits of Type 7.

As a Type 2 grows, they incorporate more positive traits of Type 4.

As a Type 3 grows, they incorporate more positive traits of Type 6.

As a Type 4 grows, they incorporate more positive traits of Type 1.

As a Type 5 grows, they incorporate more positive traits of Type 8.

As a Type 6 grows, they incorporate more positive traits of Type 9.

As a Type 7 grows, they incorporate more positive traits of Type 5.

As a Type 8 grows, they incorporate more positive traits of Type 2.

As a Type 9 grows, they incorporate more positive traits of Type 3.

Wings

The final thing to know about the Enneagram chart for my purposes is about wings. The wing of your personality traits accounts for the complementary and contradictory aspects of your personality. They are the inconsistencies that make you human, predicted and jumped in. Typically, a person is not thought to have both possible wings but one or the other. A wing is one of the two adjacent Types to yours, the number before, or the number after, and it is annotated, for example:

Type 1, Wing 2: 1w2

Type 1, Wing 9: 1w9

Link to Part 2 Here!

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shreddedleopard · 4 years

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10 Reasons it would make narrative sense for Levi and Historia’s character arcs to conclude together.

I’ve been wanting to do this for ages, but I’ve been nervous of the backlash. Feels like it’s now or never though, and theorising for/analysing stories is one of my favourite things to do - I’m clearly missing those literary analysis essays from university days. So please excuse me if you think I’m deluded - I probably am - but the analyst in me won’t let me be until I’ve got this all out of my system.

Beware, it’s a long one. There's some thoughts on chapter 130 nearest the bottom!

1. Childhood Parallels - The Abandoned Children

Levi and Historia’s childhoods mirror one another - there are striking similarities, but then also sections that fit together to complete each other, as though they are matching jigsaw pieces. The characters start out in worlds that are opposite - Historia has the comforts of a safe home, food on the table, and fresh air and sunshine. She has all the physical nourishment she needs, but she does not have her mother’s love. On the contrary, his mother’s love is the one thing Levi does have, otherwise living in poverty underground. Both their mothers, however, appear to be using sex and the idea of love as a means to survive or way to try and improve their circumstances, and it is out of this necessity that both end up being born.

Levi is clearly affected when he first hears Historia’s tale of her childhood - Isayama shows this through the fact that Levi’s plate is the only one left untouched at the end of her story. He has been so sucked in by what she’s relayed, and probably saddened, that he hasn’t been able to bring himself to eat as the others have. Historia’s story rings true with some of his own experiences, but also highlights the world he may have found himself in without his mother’s love.

Remember, Isayama consciously thinks about each panel he’s drawing - he wouldn’t include a small detail like that without reason. We see more of these instances of small but significant stylistic choices and minor details as we progress. Isayama stated in an interview that he wants to give fans an ending that fans would never guess, but that when they look back, the clues were there all along.

Continuing on with the theme of their childhoods and Isayama’s stylistic choices, let’s take a look at two significant moments:

Both characters, although experiencing different forms of deprivation initially (Physical vs. Emotional Nourishment) were abandoned at crucial moments in their lives - when they were looking for validation from their primary caregivers and the people who should have been responsible for demonstrating affection. Historia was abandoned when, after reading and taking onboard information she read in books just like her mother, she reached out to hug her, and Levi was abandoned at the moment he demonstrated that he’d absorbed everything Kenny had taught him. The parallel between these images is very powerful.

Kenny is a character that highlights more parallels between Historia and Levi.

Kenny’s words highlight the literal lack of growth in height for both Historia and Levi - both are particularly short, and also look youthful - but we can also take the words to suggest that the characters are still very much defined by what happened to them in their pasts, and have yet to step away from their demons and achieve closure on what has happened to them as children.

At this point, we can definitely say that Isayama has chosen to tie both Historia and Levi’s stories together through their childhoods - their backstories are revealed alongside each other, in the same arc of our story, and in terms of experiences, they are both identical and mirror opposite at different points.

2. Shared Values

Despite being deprived of affection for large portions of their childhoods, both Levi and Historia appear to have experienced glimmers of kindness in their darkness as well, and this has shaped some of their values and behaviours.

Levi experienced his mother's love for a short while until he lost her - we know how deeply she cared for him from her refusal to give him up despite Kenny’s advice to her when she fell pregnant. Historia had Frieda’s kindness instilled in her, even though she's not able to consciously remember her actions until later.

Both display an affinity for animals, with several manga and even anime-only scenes where we see them being affectionate and kind to their horses. We don’t see this as prominently with any other characters.

But one of the biggest shared values is their desire to protect children. I've posted on this before, but here are a few examples of Levi being driven by this value:

It’s clear Levi has a soft spot for children. And Historia? We know her feelings on children from her first action as Queen - realised with the support of Levi.

3. Kenny’s failure … Levi’s success?

These next scenes we’ll focus on represent the moment that Levi and Historia are set up to undergo that ‘growth’ Kenny was referring to earlier in the uprising arc. Note Isayama’s choice of words here, and the symbolism of the whole scene. Kenny doesn’t tell Levi, ‘I couldn’t be someone you looked up to,’ or ‘I wasn’t fit to act as your father figure,’ he literally says ‘I can’t be some kid’s dad.” What does he do then? He shoves the titan serum at Levi.

Isayama pays great attention to this - dedicating several panels to the weighty moment, and Levi’s expression. It’s very dramatic. Notice how the word ‘Dad’ even has it’s own speech bubble. It’s almost as though Kenny is passing the mantle on to Levi - passing that responsibility on to him. It feels as though the passing of the serum replaces the missing words, ‘but you can.’ Isayama didn’t have to have Levi ask that question in the moment before Kenny passed the serum on to him. He could have positioned it so that the discussion about dreams was the precursor to the serum being passed over - which in my head, for the context of the scene, would make more sense. But he didn’t; he chose to have Kenny say that exact line to Levi - to admit his inadequacy as a father figure, with that focus on the word dad - and then hand the item over to Levi.

By itself, the scene could be seen as highlighting the ways that Levi is already a better father figure than Kenny. He has been somewhat paternal in his role as a Captain. But it’s the very next scene that brings Historia immediately into focus.

Historia looks suddenly so much maturer here, and the way the scenes sit immediately after one another feels too much like foreshadowing.

If you want the full effect of what I mean here, just rewatch this section of the anime!

We are presented with parallels between them once again. The focus of the crown and power of the monarchy being bestowed on Historia parallels the gift of the serum from Kenny to Levi - drawing on the ‘titan science’ element of the Ackerman heritage, perhaps?

Let me take a moment here, while we have these two visual representations of the Ackerman and Royal bloodlines side by side so perfectly, to point out that Isayama chose to answer a question in Bessatsu Shonen Magazine regarding the nature of a child born of both these bloodlines in 2018:

Q: If a child were to be born between two people from the royal family and the Ackerman family, which blood would take precedence?

A: I think that both [of their bloodlines] would be reflected.

4. Blood Lines, Identity and Destinies - the Acker/Royal connection

We are still missing some information about the Ackermans, and Mikasa’s own Ackerman powers and behaviours have been a focus in recent chapters, prompting more questions. This suggests that the role of the Ackermans will be important in the story’s finale. With that said, lets have a look at what information we have about them so far in relation to the Royal Family:

- They worked closely with the Royal Family at one time, even being described as their sword and shield until they fell out of favour.

- They cannot be controlled by the king’s vow or have their memories tampered with. For this reason, they became enemies of the crown and the two bloodlines became at odds with one another.

Do either of these scenarios sound familiar in a romantic setting? The knight and princess trope has been hugely popular in fiction for as long as stories have been told - Lancelot and Guinevere is a well known classic. And two feuding families finally brought back together through love by the younger generation? Romeo and Juliet, anyone?

Okay, so maybe I’m reaching here. But Isayama has opened the discourse around this connection between the two bloodlines without concluding it, so I am certain it will have a part to play in upcoming chapters. Why create two characters from said bloodlines with such satisfyingly parallel but awful childhoods, if not to use them in some way to conclude this part of the narrative in the future?

5. The Beast Titan.

Another common plot point that Levi and Historia have is Zeke. The Beast Titan is a defining element in both their arcs. Levi is driven forward by his vow to kill Zeke, and this is repeated to the point where we expect this to be realised, or at least to see some satisfying resolution between the two. Historia’s situation is defined by her vulnerability to being turned into a Titan in order to consume Zeke. This threat to Historia’s life as a normal girl is also repeated across the later story arcs, just as Levi’s vow and apparent destiny to face off again with the Beast Titan is. If we link back to the knight princess trope, we could suggest that Historia is the metaphorical princess, Levi is the metaphorical knight, and The Beast Titan is the metaphorical dragon. The dragon must be slain in order to protect the princess, and the one to do this is always the gallant knight, or the hero. We know that Levi has been labelled Humanity’s Strongest, and even a hero, before.

It has been Levi’s destiny from the start. What's more, what is the crux of Zeke’s plan for Eldians?

Euthanasia by preventing reproduction. Zeke’s ideology basically directly opposes the values of Levi and Historia - who wish to save as many children as possible.

6. The Smile

If there is one scene Levi fans lost their heads over, it’s this one. The Smile. Who was responsible for getting the sullen Captain to smile? None other than Queen Historia. The one time we get to see a genuine smile from him, in all 131 chapters of SNK, is when Historia playfully punches his arm. I think by this point, it is absolutely fair to say that Levi has a soft spot for her, although I’m not suggesting this is anything romantic at this stage due to her still being a child. What else is interesting about this scene? Let’s look at it from Historia’s point of view. She’s still a 15 year old girl. I’m hardly suggesting she’s got deep, meaningful feelings for a Captain so many years her senior. What I am suggesting, is that clearly there is the beginnings of her seeing him in a different light, and feeling some sort of fondness towards him too. This is also the stereotype of innocent, youthful infatuation - how many times have we seen teenagers play-fighting or bantering with the object of their affections? Something might just be stirring in Historia towards the Captain as she begins her transition into adulthood.

7. THAT (deleted) Scene

Okay, so we can’t very well talk about the smile in the context of this topic without addressing this scene:

There were a few scenes cut to make the uprising arc in the anime more streamlined. This is one of them, and again, has been one of the most talked about. People either love or hate this scene. In the manga, it absolutely sets up some major character growth for Historia, when she goes from being scared and allowing Levi to threaten her into taking an action, to standing up to him atop the wall at Orvud district, throwing his own words back at him. In contrast to Historia’s willingness, Levi becomes more receptive to her perspective and backs down, which also shows his growth. (More on that shortly!)

So, if it adds to the narrative around Levi and Historia, and is a key part of their development as characters, why did Isayama let the studio remove it? It must be because their influence on one another’s growth is no longer important to the story, correct?

If you ask me, that couldn’t be further from the truth.

Isayama has stated there were some elements of Uprising that he was unhappy with. Just, for a moment, think how this scene would fit into the bigger picture of a relationship (whether that be deeply platonic or even romantic) between Historia and Levi. Could people get behind that knowing that once, he handled her so roughly? Does keeping this scene as canon for the anime open a can of worms in terms of what is and isn’t acceptable (even more so than the age gap already does) when it comes to a relationship? Could Isayama be seen as glorifying abuse and suggesting that female characters are likely to develop feelings for men who have treated them so poorly in the past? I completely understand Levi’s reasoning for acting this way in this scene, and I loved the set up and pay off later in the arc. However, I do believe that animating this, and then having them become much closer later in the story, could make a backlash likely.

My conclusion to this particular section is - if their influence on one another as characters was unimportant, and the payoff of them reaching a stage where they bring out the best in one another wasn’t relevant to the rest of the story, then The Smile shouldn’t have made it in, right? So much of the set up was removed that it would have been far easier to scrap the scene than to try and figure out another reason for Historia to punch Levi, and make him smile.

That punch was important. It remains for a reason.

8. Levi’s Echo

So, since we discussed the impact of Levi’s words on Historia in the previous point, and how Isayama uses them to illustrate her character growth, let’s jump ahead all the way to chapter 130. We’re now post time skip, where Historia is nineteen. She’s matured now into a young woman - a woman old enough to acceptably conceive a child. This is the chapter which caught everyone’s attention due to Historia’s words to Eren regarding the idea of said child. But first of all, I want to focus on a scene which appears a couple of panels before her question:

‘It’s not as if I’ve just been tending to cattle all this time.’

What does this line mean? The only thing we know in terms of what Historia has been doing in the time skip is that she set up an Orphanage that Levi was also very much invested in and supported her with. So she’s not only been tending to cattle, but ... tending to orphans? With the Captain’s help?

Remember how we said that Isayama doesn’t include subtle details unless there’s a reason. Having Levi support her with the orphanage as a way to show how much he cares about the poorer children wasn’t needed - we already know from several instances discussed earlier that he cares about that topic deeply. So surely this must have been a small detail to set up for a later reveal?

This line alone is interesting, but not necessarily enough to suggest a big influence from Levi. But it’s the next line that grabs attention:

‘There’s no need to fight or run.’

What does this echo?

In my mind, the reason served by this dialogue in 130 is twofold. It works with both the literal events of the deleted scene, and also with the reader’s knowledge that the scene was disregarded later:

1. There is no reason to run or to fight, because Levi is on her side now. When he originally spoke those words to her - run from me or fight me - they were used in reference to what he and the corps were going to make her do - ie, become Queen. Now, they are not forcing her to do anything - they aren’t making her comply with the 50 year plan of producing as many royal children as possible and turning herself into a titan. Instead, she’s empowered by them, and very importantly, him, to make her own decisions while they try to figure out an alternative. (Why do I say him? I’ll cover this in the next point). And yet ... she still chooses to bear a child. A child born of love, not necessity. This is the difference between the birth of her child, and her own birth. And funnily enough, Levi’s birth, too.

The cycle of history is being broken.

2. Her words serve as a reminder that in the revised version of events, Levi never even forced that choice upon her in the first place. He’s always been her ally and treated her with care and respect. Even more reason for her to value and care for him in return. There really is no need to run or fight - from the military police, because she will bear a child, stopping them from turning her - or from Levi, either.

9. The Hooded Figure

As promised, let me explain why I say that Levi empowers Historia (yet again) to make her own decisions. My good friend Key made a wonderful discovery regarding the hooded figure panel, and honestly, based on the evidence I’ve seen, I’d be prepared to bet a whole lot on this next claim:

Levi is the hooded figure who warned Historia of the plan to turn her.

I’ve shared Key’s original post previously, but here’s the gist, with some added observations.

Levi from the hallway; Levi from that iconic scene, fits the dimensions of the hooded figure perfectly, without having to adjust the panel sizes.

The jacket worn is lighter in colour than Eren’s standard black one, but is reminiscent of the jackets worn by the Levi Squad in the uprising arc. The only other clue we’re given to work from is that the figure has their hands in their pockets.

Hmm ... you know who else has a habit of stuffing his hands in his pockets?

So if Levi is the one who warned Historia, is that why she subtly uses his words when talking to Eren?

Let me return to chapter 130 once more, and just invite you to read the following panels from a different angle.

10. Mikasa-Eren/Levi-Historia Parallels

Alright, so this is a bit of a head-mash, but just consider what I’m about to say. In our panels with the Historia-Eren-Zeke conversation, Mikasa is never mentioned by name once. Zeke mentions ‘this Ackerman girl,’ however there is no confirmation that Eren was in fact talking about Mikasa when he asked Zeke about the Ackerman traits ...

Isayama only shows us the conversation with Zeke after Eren has just spoken to Historia about her fate and what the Paradis government want her to do in terms of bearing children. If these are just all memory fragments of Eren’s, why would discussing this with Historia suddenly make Eren think of a conversation about Ackerman traits with Zeke?

In this conversation, Zeke puts two and two together and gathers that Eren is asking these questions because of Mikasa. He then tells him how much Mikasa obviously cares about Eren, regardless of any ‘ingrained behaviour.’ What does Eren then link this with?

The conversation where Historia asks him what he’d think if she was to bear a child. What does ingrained Ackerman behaviour and Mikasa’s true feelings have to do with Historia’s child?

I want to suggest this possibility: this conversation has nothing to do with Mikasa’s feelings for Eren, and everything to do with Levi’s feelings for Historia.

Eren even confirms that Zeke has the wrong end of the stick with asking him how he will respond to Mikasa’s feelings.

What are you even talking about?

Here, he is not considering how he will respond to Mikasa, because he can’t even contemplate that with what he is about to do, and how long he has left to live (although this may have then prompted his later conversation with Mikasa after the market - where he sees Levi save the boy that he will later kill - do you see how this is all linking together?)

Here he means the lives of Historia, her child, and potentially even Levi, as well of course as Armin, Mikasa and the rest of his friends. Want to know why I think that? Isayama hinted it. Again.

We have the image of Historia, suggesting the idea of bearing a child, followed by the image of the child Levi saved, followed by the image of Levi himself.

Isayama draws every detail in every panel for a reason. If part of his conclusion to this manga involves Levi and Historia intertwined and the birth of an Ackerman-Royal child, it won’t be a massively random idea.

It will contribute to an ending where the clues were there all along, but we never really considered them.

(There’s more, so much more, but I have to stop somewhere or I won’t leave my computer. If anyone wants a part two because you’re thirsty for more of this crap, drop me a comment!)

#Shingeki no kyojin theory #attack on titan theory #snk manga spoilers #historia reiss #Levi ackerman #Historia dad theory #Historia pregnancy #royal Ackerman connection #snk chapter 130 #snk theory #aot theory

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sitabethel · 3 years

Text

Fic tag game, and I was tagged by @rochelle-echidna, @isisishtar, and @ninjam117

1 - how many fics do you have on ao3?

Like any good Suikoden protagonist, I have 107 Stars of Destiny in my castle

2 - what’s your total word count?

2,445,507 (Daddy...Imma get that to 2.5 mill by the end of the year. Watch)

3 - what are your top fics by kudos?

The Lemonade Stand

Out From the Cold

King of Thieves

Safe

Talk Dirty to me

wtf, y’all. The puppyshippers are giving out more kudos than the thief stans. Shame. Shame. Talk Dirty To Me isn’t even a fic??? It’s an RP supersteff posted for funsies???

4 - do you respond to comments why or why not?

Most of the time (as long as I’m not overwhelmed with life). Responding to comments is how I’ve made most my friends in this fandom, so A++ would recommend.

5 - what’s the fic you’ve written with the angstiest ending?

Definitely Three Nights. My only fic w/a sad ending (which is why I wrote Three More Nights b/c I couldn’t handle having a sad ending. I had to fix it.)

6 - what’s the fic you’ve written with the happiest ending?

I honestly couldn’t say. I’m here to have a good time and to make sure all my favs also have a good time, so I’m always actively trying to give them the happiest possible endings.

7 - do you write crossovers?

Nope.

8 - have you ever received hate for a fic?

I sure the hell have

9 - do you write smut? What kind.

ROTFLMFAO

10 - have you ever had a fic stolen?

Yes. It was kinda funny b/c out of all the fics, it was “Me” a 5k deathshipping one shot that is one of my least popular works. But like...I don’t really think they were *trying* to steal it so much as homage it? But they were too young and unskilled to know how to rework something properly, so it was almost an exact copy of my fic. I tried to go over it and show them how to rewrite parts in order for it to be more original (Like, you can give YM piercings, just don’t give him the exact same piercings. You can have YM play with his hair/clothes/presentation in order to explore his identity, but pick different things that are more unique and how *you* would imagine YM being as his own person, instead of just copying exactly what I did).

11 - have you ever had a fic translated?

There’s an Italian version of Storm of White on ao3 (go kudo bomb it!)

12 - have you ever co written a fic before?

Lots! I love colabs <3 The last one I did was Conspire With You, but there was also A Way Home, and I’ve co-written a few things with SuperSteffy. Please support all the other writers who worked hard on these fics with me! (kudo-bomb the hell out of them)

13 - what’s your all time favorite ship?

*Cries in polyamory*

I can’t...choose one. Thiefshipping and Deathshipping were my first favorites, but like...damn, Kingshipping and Trapshipping have honestly ruined me. And Arrestshipping...Euroshipping...Rustshipping...Boundshipping...LISTEN!!! If it’s any combination of Seto/Atem/Yugi/TKB-YB/Ryou B/YamiMa/Malik it’s my favorite, okay? I’m a dragon who hoards ships. Especially polyships. I will literally froth at the mouth at any combo of those 7. Now let’s move on to the next question before I add more characters to the list........

14 - what’s a wip that you want to finish but don’t think you ever will?

That demon/angel au I was working on years and years ago. A shame, since I think there was a lemon that spilled into 3 chapters in that and it’s what Bakura deserves, but the plot was just...meh.

15/16 - writing strengths and weaknesses

Strengths: Dialogue, sometimes imagery, projecting the right trauma/personality traits on the right characters in a way that can make scenes relatable/authentic.

Weaknesses: I can be lazy with some plot points b/c it’s fanfiction, and I’m only here to have a good time, so eff it. And I will absolutely “sum up” certain chapters in order to finish a story at 80% potential. Anons used to get on my ass about this, and some commenters too, but I refuse to repent of my hasty ways. I write a lot of stories, and sometimes it’s better to get 3 80% stories out instead of one 100% story (for me. absolutely nothing wrong with ppl who want to write their best all the time. Like, mad respect to those peeps). Anyway, the ppl who complain are 100% accurate, right, and valid, but again, If you call me out on this I’ll just shrug at you and remind you of my commission prices b/c I’ll be happy to personally tailor a story for any angry anon-- if they want to put their money where their critique is *blows kiss*

17 - what are your thoughts on writing dialogue in other languages in a fic?

Depends on the context and how it’s used.

18 - what was your first fandom you wrote for?

FFVII, but I never posted any of it thank god

19- what’s your favorite fic you’ve ever written?

I honestly love so many of my stories. I honestly re-read my own stuff all the time for comfort/self-care. I especially love a lot of the more intense, emotional pwp one-shots. It’s extremely difficult to pick one, but let’s go with humor and link

Measuring Up

Gotta love Bakura’s monster **** And the interaction involved with writing that story made it so much more fun. I really miss the days where you could slap a vote on tumblr and get a lot of responses, and dammit I miss Abby throwing random things into my ask box (like Bakura’s monster ****)

Not going to tag anyone, since so many ppl are in the same little thiefshipping circle and I’d probably just accidentally tag a lot of ppl who have been tagged by others already.

#fic meme #long post #tag stuff #tag game

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mrs-nate-humphrey · 3 years

Note

do you think dan loved/ saw the real Blair. or did he only like Blairs good qualities or the character he created? In 5x24, he says "I thought she had changed" what do you think that line meant?

hi!! i dwelled a LOT on question 1, as you’d probably expect, and there’s a bit on your second question at the end of the ask. i didn’t want to put this under a read more, but... i probably have to, hahaha. oh well...

a lot of people think that dan liked the version of blair he created (i’m not sure why - maybe because of the way derena played out, or maybe because of “inside” & the fact that he definitely was dreaming of her?) but i personally do not agree with that or buy that at all. i’d argue, even, that dan has never had any illusions about the kind of person blair is.

the first time we really get to hear dan’s thoughts on blair (that i can remember, at least), is in 1x04, when he’s complaining to rufus, and he is downright scathing. he hates her! he has a long list of adjectives about how much he hates her!!

in the end of s1, he and blair even team up to get revenge on georgina because of the shit she put serena through - that gave me so many feels, the first time i watched it, and i’ve actually been thinking abt that a lot - the parallels between 1x18 & 4x10/4x11 and these two being knights in shining armour for serena. maybe i’ll write a fic about that, later (im getting distracted!!)

in s2, dan says the very iconic “google revenge and you’ll get blair waldorf dot com” thing to vanessa, who wants to help nate. and this makes perfect sense to dan, because he’s definitely schemed with blair to help someone he loves before, and he knows that when it comes to her best friends, she’ll do anything. stuff like this, to me, is the heart of the dair dynamic (along with a 101 other things, blah) because like... dan can see the good parts of it - the fierce loyalty, the “if you want to help nate, blair’s your best shot, because of how she protects and fights for the people she loves,” while also being cynical about it, like, “oh yeah, blair? she’s schemey, she’s mean, she could probably kill someone and show no remorse.” like... .this is one of the most balanced perspectives on blair, ever. i feel like he really understood both sides of her - the part of her that loves so much and so deeply, and the part of her that can be cruel and causes destruction (i would even say that dan himself sort of operates like this - he can be really kind but he can also be really mean, and. yeah idk i just find it fascinating, how much they have in common.)

he even acts on the wrong instinct at times, like, when he’s expecting her to sabotage him at W so he sabotages her first? like, i don’t think there’s really ever an instance where dan is looking at blair and seeing someone who isn’t there? he might read her wrong sometimes, but i feel like he understands her. they both understand each other! this jibe is one of my favourites because... i think nads @mysteriesofloves said it perfectly here, specifically, the part where she says:

“serena isn’t there to see him, and she won’t be, and he’ll miss his interview waiting for her to throw one glance at him over her shoulder, the way he always has. he says that whatever scheme blair is plotting is going to backfire. and here’s the thing! they’re both completely right - but it has nothing to do with prediction and everything to do with the fact that they know each other better than they know themselves.”

their entire relationship is a gradual building up, and it definitely has its roots in that, you know? like, dan and blair aren’t the people they were in high school, sure, they’re growing past it, but they knew each other back then, they understood each other back then. dan has seen blair at her best, at her romantic and enthusiastic and intellectual opinionated self (whom he vibes with immensely, remember that pretentious sleepover), and he’s seen blair at her worst, and he loves the part of her that schemes and causes problems (she ruined his award nomination thing in despicable b and he was ready to work through it with her! i know i talk about this episode a LOT but it just really makes me feel things. why would he forgive her for this, if he didn’t understand/accept that side of her???)

now, for your second question. i honestly do not really remember (or vibe much) with that episode, but i think the whole “i thought she had changed” had to do with like... blair seeing him as an equal, and not just as some poor boy from brooklyn or whatever. blair is pretty canonically classist early on in the series, and she very openly scoffs and looks down on the humphreys due to like, status & wealth & all that jazz (jenny gets it soooo much worse than dan, but. that’s dan’s sister, he’s allowed to be pissed off.) so i would read this as like.. “i thought she and i really connected as two people who had a lot in common, who had common interests and common life goals and who were able to be honest and open and sincere with each other... but i guess that she still looks at me as that nobody from brooklyn, and she’d much rather date a billionaire who’s been terrible to her, than me, who’s tried my best to support her even when she hurt me.”

i do think there’s ample canon evidence to support this, too, but i can’t think of what to link and show you here that isn’t...... the whole dair arc, lmao. i just think it was very... dan knew that dating him was out of blair’s comfort zone or dream future / ideal future. so i think that’s the context of “i thought she had changed.” like, a paraphrased “i thought i had a chance.”

oh damn, now i’m sad. :’)) time to listen to new york city by among savages on repeat again!

#anon #dair #meta #me: im going to keep it brief im going to answer this one in one paragraph #9 paragraphs later #'oh fuck'#lkdhgklshgh #long post

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novantinuum · 4 years

Text

Intake, Ch. 2

Fandom: Steven Universe

Rating: Teen Audiences

Words: 3600~

Summary: While waiting in the van, Greg reflects on the current state of his son’s mental health, and his many questionable parenting decisions.

This is set multiple months pre The Future, and is a bonus Greg-POV follow up to a previous one-shot I wrote. No context of that is needed to understand this.

If you read this and enjoy, I’d greatly appreciate your support through reblogs here, or kudos/comments on AO3 as well. AO3 link will be provided in the reblogs. Thank you! <3

____

Animated fireworks flash on Greg Universe’s phone screen, virtual fanfare for the virtual victor, as he clears the last king from the tableau. His brows shoot upwards in delight when he sees the final count of the timer. Wow, under three minutes. That’s close to a personal record. Not too shabby for a man who swears he finds a new strand of grey each and every week.

Another day, another successful round of solitaire in the bag.

Sighing, he almost clicks for a new deal, but then realizes it’s almost noon, and that his son is set to finish his first session any minute now. With that in mind, he switches off his phone and nestles it in the empty cup holder at his side, making sure it doesn’t touch the sticky soda stain covering a portion of the plastic. He’d kinda like to be paying attention when Steven exits the therapist’s office, rather than lose himself in a mindless distraction only to be startlingly yanked back to reality by timid knocks on the van door.

Timid.

If any word could be used to describe the way Steven dances around interactions with him these days, this one fits the bill. The boy will sometimes talk to him, sure, but it’s all small talk, short and curt responses, half-hearted shrugs. He’s positive there has to be more to his reluctance to fully engage, to even embrace him, but if so he’s not seeing it. At this point, the last time they had a true heart-to-heart conversation was on their road trip, before the crash. What on Earth happened? They used to be close. They used to share everything with each other, before he moved in with the Gems. Years later, he assumed they still did. And yet, after Dr. Maheswaran showed him the blunt reality of the X-rays on Steven’s chart... those dozens of healed-over fractures, speaking to a litany of injuries sustained throughout childhood, injuries he never knew about, all leading to trauma he never saw the signs of... he realized that, at some point, the two of them had drifted apart. When he was younger he thought he was correcting from his parents’ iron rule, letting his son have all the freedom he wanted. But was it too much? Was he that neglectful a father?

When did he stop paying attention to Steven’s emotional needs enough to miss his steep slip into mental distress?

He sighs, guilt lining the inside of his stomach like the burn of hard liquor coating one’s throat.

It’s not about me, he reminds himself. I can’t make it about me.

It’s the same mantra that kept him stubbornly pushing forward through waves of anguish and remorse weeks back, when his poor boy was roaring, slashing his claws at anyone that dared edge close, years of buried anger and pain thrown to the forefront in a veritable explosion of scales and thorns.

He glides his hand across the faux wood paneling on the dashboard as he consigns himself to recent memory, letting both his fingertips and his mind trace every dip and ridge of its grain. That was probably the most terrifying thing he’d ever witnessed in his life. His own son, disappearing in seconds into this... this monstrous thing, like all the corrupted Gems he used to see them fight from a distance but so, so much bigger. So much rawer. He genuinely thought he’d lost him forever that day. His own panic aside, he can’t even imagine what that experience must have been like for Steven. Remembering those heartbreaking three words he said before it happened, though, glowing pink on hands and knees, he’s not sure he wants to.

“Greg,” Dr. Priyanka Maheswaran says sternly as he exits the thrashed examination room, toting a clipboard under her arm. Her gaze, while undoubtedly sympathetic to the plight of the boy who’s currently changing back into his clothes in privacy, regards him with a fiery sort of reproval the likes he hasn’t squirmed under since he was a child himself. “We need to have a frank conversation about your son’s wellbeing.”

From the corner of his eyes he catches a blur of pink and faded denim blue pushing through the small office’s exterior door. Greg jolts to action, wiping what he fears is a self-pitying look off his face and attempting to replace it with something that looks halfway encouraging. Part of him’s terrified that no matter what he changes, it‘ll never be enough. He’s admittedly still at a loss for how to most helpfully interact with someone struggling with, erm... well, let’s be blunt— with long-untreated mental illness— but he’d do anything for his son’s sake at this point, even if that involves the hard work of addressing his own habits and convictions. He unlocks the van just as Steven walks up alongside.

He can’t help but briefly hold his breath the moment the passenger door opens.

The teen appears no different than he did when Greg left the office to sit in the van an hour and a half ago— his eyes are downcast, drawn with exhaustion, expression unreadable— but to be fair he supposes it’s silly to expect any drastic shift in mood after only one session. Right?

“Now, to be clear, I’m not licensed to diagnose mental disorders,” she explains, glancing up from her notes, “but from everything I’ve witnessed, tested, and heard from him today I have a strong suspicion that he’s dealing with post-traumatic stress.” Mouth pinched, she drops her clipboard on the counter beside them, its dull clap as it hits the laminate punctuating the sheer gravity of her words. “There’s my prognosis,” she says bluntly, palms spread wide. “This looks like textbook PTSD, ignored and overlooked for months.”

Greg lets the bitter reality of those four letters sink in, his eyes burning, throat dry, his heart cracking with despair at the very thought of— he only barely holds back what he’s sure in this circumstance, host to the scolding of a medical practitioner, is a pathetic sob— of his Steven, suffering through all these turbulent emotions for goodness knows how long, no one the wiser, no one noticing his silent cries for help, no one—

He... god, he didn’t know. He didn’t know! How could he have been so stupid to not have noticed?

“You do understand how serious this situation is, yes?” she continues when he doesn’t vocally respond. “How- how irresponsible it is to have never taken your sixteen-year-old son in for even, what? A simple check up? And, and—“ she holds her hands up before he can blurt out a response. “I know what you’re about to say. I know he’s half-Gem, I know he’s different than anyone else on this planet. But he has human needs, too, Greg! I just—!” Priyanka inhales deep, pressing her thumb against her temple as she pauses to catch her cool. “Pardon me. I’m sorry for snapping. I know you love him, and mean well with him, but at this point, we need to face the truth. That boy is hurting, badly. And if he’s going to have any chance of recovering from this, he needs your full support now more than ever.”

The passenger seatbelt clicks, the door already closed. Steven sighs under his breath, sinking into the time-worn, faded seat back. Greg studies his son’s face for a moment, noting with concern the lines of stress creased under his eyes.

“Hey, bud,” he says, his hands shifting to the wheel, nervously fidgeting as he waits for a response, any response.

“Hey,” he mutters, already pulling out his phone. (Probably to text Connie, if he has to guess. Greg counts himself thankful that he has this solid friendship to help anchor him at such a difficult point in his life. Simultaneously, his heart aches knowing the stress that girl’s surely gone through by choosing to be a support for him.)

“How... erm, how’d it go?”

He gives him a big shrug, his fingertips blazing across the screen in an almost dizzying display of dexterity. “It went.”

Greg’s fingers rap against the sun-stained leather. “You still game for gettin’ some food?”

“Yeah. That’s fine.”

Okay. Good. Lunchtime is a go, then, he thinks, diverting his notice to the keys in the ignition. Despite this, there’s a shade of disappointment that tints the atmosphere within this space. Unable to shake the harrowing feeling that he failed some sort of unspoken test with his son, he starts the van and— mentally plotting a course to that good Thai place Steven discovered a few months back— carefully pulls out of the cramped parking lot onto the main road, hoping that this extension to their time together may eventually chip away at the ice that’s formed between them.

Some classic rock plays on the radio as he drives, a band Greg distantly recalls hearing via his classmates in high school but can’t remember the name of. The singer’s mellow tenor effortlessly fills the gaps left behind in their timid silence. Briefly glancing away from the road, he catches Steven’s fingers tapping against his phone to the beat as he waits for a reply to his text, lips drawn. It’s an almost minuscule display, so subtle that any untrained eye might miss it, but witnessing this proof that his son is still very much capable of finding pleasure in music, however small said source of pleasure may be, he can’t help but smile. Soon enough, he passes the crooked street lamp on the corner of Glover and 4th that he always uses as a mental marker when navigating around the small town of Seaside, and takes a quick left at the next stoplight. It’s funny... this place is only twenty or so miles away from home, but given gas costs and his habitual frugalness, he hasn’t explored this county enough over the years to form a good internal map beyond Beach City. Perhaps now, with his son coming to this town every week for therapy, that will change.

The song ends on a sleek guitar riff, and quickly transitions back to the station’s upbeat radio personality.

“You’re listening to Dragon’s Hoard FM, your home for all of music’s greatest treasures! Next up, a trip down memory lane... to a fan favorite from the 1971 best-selling artist... welcome to the party, Kerry Moonbeam.”

Static pours through his nerves as the next number begins to play, (why now, why now, what cruel cosmic timing is this??), robbing all sensation from his fingers. His knuckles grow uncharacteristically pale as he clutches at the wheel, wrestling for dominance.

“Looking for your place in the universe...”

He doesn’t dare shift his gaze from traffic this time, but all he can see in his mind’s eye is that glowing, nauseatingly bright pink. The unwavering tension hanging over them, thick as smog, as their conversation grows terse and grim. His son at the helm, the demons of their past steering their trajectory far out of anyone’s control, as— angered and upset over what he now accepts are entirely rational things— he openly calls out his failures, his lack of structure, lack of attention, his—

“Don’t you know the universe is looking too~ Looking for its place in yo—“

And with the twist of a knob, it’s over. Some local station replaces those tense airwaves, bringing him relief from tainted memory in an instant. His hand quivers as it returns to command of the wheel. In the passenger seat, Steven glances up from his text conversation with that instinctual concern he’s so prone to, eyes blown wide and colored with equal parts confusion and sympathy.

Notably, there’s not a sign of pink.

Swallowing hard, Greg considers saying something in explanation, but in the tangled complexity of their current relationship he can’t think of anything worth saying. Eventually, his throat runs dry in his own silence. His son stops gawking at him like another problem to be fixed, attention drifting back to his phone. His muscles loosen in sheer relief.

He sighs under his breath as he slows for a pedestrian at the crosswalk. Willfully, he buries himself in the mindless drivel of the local talk show he switched to for the rest of the drive, allowing their distant voices to cover the aching, lonely gap torn in his heart.

____

They put in their order when the waitress arrives, Steven settling on pad thai with egg and tofu, and Greg falling back on an old favorite with fried rice and pork. She jots this down on her notepad in a jiffy, pours them some water, then hurriedly scuttles behind the curtain that separates the kitchen from the remainder of the restaurant. It is the lunch rush, after all.

Thankfully though, even amongst the rush the two of them were lucky enough to be seated at a cozy table nestled against the back wall, affording them a decent amount of privacy. There’s enough ambient chit-chat bouncing around the room that Greg doesn’t feel eaten alive by that aching isolation he endured on the almost silent drive over, but not enough that these people’s presence feels suffocating. Steven slowly sips at his water as he politely listens to his updates on Sadie and Shep’s blossoming music career. He’s not saying much in response beyond asking the appropriate follow-up questions and then nodding his head at his answers, but in the end, that’s fine. Even if the recent lack of depth to their conversations bothers him, even if his son’s silence shatters his heart, in his mind it’s not fair to pressure him to interact in a manner he‘s not ready for yet. Greg just needs to be patient. He’ll open up to him when the time is right. There’s no need to push so hard that the remaining threads stringing their relationship together snap altogether, which is— if he’s honest— the future he fears the most.

The one where he becomes no better than his own over-controlling parents.

With his fingers obsessively rapping alongside the side of his glass, he continues to make substance-less small talk, anything to aid in the illusion that the two of them can still carry a conversation together.

“So yeah, that’s where they’re at right now,” he says. “They said they’re gonna put a pause on the touring, and start working on a full album.”

“Nice. Good for them,” Steven responds, the lines under his eyes betraying his underlying exhaustion, even if it appears he’s trying his hardest to mask it. (But for who’s sake?) “And you, you’re still gonna...?”

“Be their manager, yes. That’s still the plan.”

“Cool, cool.“

Their words fade amongst the ambient chatter, neither immediately leaping to comment further.

He softly clears his throat. “And, uh... in the end, I’ll be there whenever they need me, y’know? They might decide they want someone else supportin’ them along some day, and that’s fine.” He wrings his hands together atop the table, watching his son closely. “I only want the best for them.”

The teen’s hollow glance flits across the restaurant, landing from person to person, his leg bouncing nervously under the table all the while. Upon sensing this, it suddenly hits Greg that this is the first time Steven’s been out in busy public beyond the familiar faces of Beach City. For a second he can’t help but fret that all this activity— therapist’s waiting room, awkward car ride, going out to a busy restaurant at noon— will only serve to stress the poor kid out, but then again... pressing his silent worries onto the situation won’t help anyone. The only thing that’s important right now is for his son to know he’s always loved. Always heard, always seen, from this moment on.

After all his failures as a guardian in the years prior, it’s the least he can do.

And then, as Steven’s gaze shifts back into focus, Greg can wholeheartedly sense that he’s mentally engaged, delicate machinery in his mind whirring away as he processes every facet of this conversation, this moment, this place. He swallows hard, his Adam’s apple bobbing, and then opens his mouth to speak.

“With Sadie and Shep, well...” He scratches at the back of his neck, not quite sustaining eye contact. “I’m sure that... no matter what the future holds, they’ll always appreciate the support you did give them. Even if some of that support maaaybe wasn’t exactly what they needed at the time,” he adds as an afterthought, voice falling soft.

Something within his chest unshackles upon hearing these words, their double meaning more than clear to him. He blinks hard, desperately trying not to utterly break down in front of his own kid. “Steven, I—“

His attempt to piece together a heartfelt response is interrupted by the arrival of their lunch, steam wafting off each plate as the waitress sets them both on the table. They both offer their thanks, and unwind their utensils from their napkins. He’s quick to dig in to his fried rice and pork, having not eaten a full meal since last night. Steven, on the other hand, picks and prods at his entrée, something he’s noticed has become a concerningly common occurrence in recent weeks. He still eats, thank the stars, but not with zeal.

Greg is already midway through his plate before by the time his son‘s just started to put a dent into his own. The teen twirls his chopsticks around a clump of noodles and bean sprouts, seeming more lost in thought than usual. A moment passes, and he opens his mouth as if he’s about to speak up, but quickly shuts it again.

His brow creases with equal parts worry and curiosity. “You got somethin’ on your mind, bud?”

Steven frowns, abandoning his otherwise proficient chopstick skills to stab the tip of one of them into a hunk of tofu. “I guess it’s just that... well... nothing about that appointment was what I expected,” he says, and lifts his utensil to take a bite.

“Oh, yeah?” he prompts, and leans into the table with a surplus of attentiveness. All the while, he’s waging a desperate internal battle not to seem like he’s clinging to his each and every word. (Just let him open up at his own pace, Greg. Don’t be suffocating. Encourage him, but give him time.)

“It wasn’t like, bad,” he murmurs softly, his blank gaze drifting across the ornaments and framed art strewn across the restaurant walls. “But we barely even talked about the last few months? I thought we would, but we didn’t. Instead, he just asked a lot of questions about you, the Gems, Beach City, what it was like growing up. Some clarification on the history of the Diamonds, and the war. I dunno,” he shrugs, and twirls his chopsticks through his pad thai again. “It was kinda strange.”

Greg reflects for a moment on his son’s words, recalling with a slight grimace the first conversation he and the Gems had with Steven about considering therapy. At first he was strongly resistant to the idea, almost indignantly so, claiming that he could “sort this all out by himself” given time, that no one could ever relate to his exact problems enough to be of any help, and that he didn’t want to make his stupid life someone else’s burden in the first place. And even when they managed to convince him to give it a try, he still admitted worry about finding someone who knew enough about Gems to be qualified to treat him. So in that case, he can understand if the teen feels a little nervous, being asked so many questions about his complex lineage.

“Yeah, I hear ya’,” he nods, and then— catching the inside of his cheek between his teeth, rapidly weighing the pros and cons of risking a more in-depth comment— “With what Dr. Maheswaran’s told me about therapy, though, that sounds about normal for a first session, for anyone.”

Steven visibly perks up, perhaps in relief that for once his experience isn’t a unique exception like many other things in his childhood... schooling, housing situation, etc. etc... have been.

“Really? What- what did she say about it?”

“Mostly that it’s important for therapists to build context so they can better understand their client’s current state, or something like that.”

“Huh,” he says thoughtfully, sitting back in his chair. “Well, I guess that makes sense.”

“In the end, you’re definitely not the only one in this boat, Schtu-ball. And that‘s gotta be a little reassuring, yeah?”

He smiles in response. It’s small, merely a slight upward tilt of his lip, but it’s there. “Yeah. I suppose it is.”

____

Their conversation fades back into small-talk after that, but by that point Greg doesn’t feel so bothered. Instead, he feels as if a colossal weight’s been lifted from his chest. He’s not sure Steven fully understands the gift he’s given him today, opening up a little about his inner life after so many long weeks of self imposed silence, but the reassurance it’s offered about the state of their bond is astronomical. It promises healing, a brand new chance to listen and understand.

To change and grow in relationship together, father and son.

“Hey, Dad?” he asks hesitantly as he climbs into the passenger seat.

“Yeah, bud?”

He diverts his attention from the dashboard for just a moment, just long enough to catch a glimpse of the teenager. Clutching their leftovers in his lap, Steven’s eyes land on the stack of CDs tucked into the door pocket.

“D’ya think we can listen to one of your albums on the way back?”

With a watery smile, he switches the van’s radio to disk mode.

“Take your pick.”

#su #su future #greg universe #steven universe #su fanfiction #su fanfic #my writing stuff

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roddyretrograde · 3 years

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idk if anyone brings this up but i have never seen anyone find an argument to rebuke that so any comments on peyton appropriating a slur targeted at lesbians and it being played like an heroic moment? because that moment managed to make me feel queerbaited because at one point it seemed like peyton might also be attracted to anna but infuriated because it was clear all at once this was just a clumsy attempt by the writers of straight girl owns bigots by using bigot's language

Hi there! I have answered a similar ask here before that might be helpful, that I think helps explain my context and thought process around the whole D-slur/Peyton arc in season two. Please keep in mind, I'm not excusing the use of the word, or the sloppy writing because you're right. It's incredibly sloppy writing, and insensitive the way it was used.

That being said, I didn't touch on your queerbaiting comment in that ask's reply and I want to add that I do think you're incredibly valid in seeing that plot line as queer-baiting and have every right to be infuriated by it. OTH does this a lot with Peyton, especially with Brooke and Breyton as a whole when it's not Anna. I'll also try and reblog a gifset that I saw earlier and I believe is in my likes that has examples of all the Breyton queerbaiting throughout the seasons.

I also want to acknowledge that this is my point of view as someone who was in high school when these episodes were released as a millennial and not a gen z person (so I'm using my own personal experience in that reply that mirrors OTH's timeline a bit more), and I'm also speaking as a bi/queer woman and not a lesbian, so I am lacking that perspective and don't want to speak over a group that I'm not part of but fully support.

I'd love to hear your thoughts after you read it though, and let me know if you think I'm way off track or what I might have missed!

edit: here are some of the posts i said i’d reblog as queerbaiting examples in the show x x x (three separate links)

#peyton sawyer #slur tw #asks #anonymous #one tree hill #drama queens oth

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lilhawkeye3 · 4 years

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An Overdue Chat About Harry Potter

...because no fandom is safe from Tea Time with Hawk.☕️🦅

Oh boy. Harry Potter. Where do I even start? This is just a summary of the things I know/remember, so I apologize if I miss anything major. Warning: this is a long one.

•Described the only black female character’s hairstyle as “worms.”

Pansy Parkinson to Angelina Johnson in Order of the Phoenix: “Hey, Johnson, what’s with that hairstyle, anyway?” shrieked Pansy Parkinson from below. “Why would anyone want to look like they’ve got worms coming out of their head?”

•Had Seamus Finnegan, the explicitly stated Irish character always blowing things up due to his nature. (This is troublesome because it feeds into a stereotype influenced by bias against the IRA).

•Also had the Irish-coded Weasley family be: all ginger, lots of kids, and in poverty (partly due to them having so many kids). This also leads them to be Catholic-coded, as they are in the minority of how the rest of Wizarding Britain is presented.

This stereotype was so well known in Protestant UK that Monty Python even made a whole musical sketch making fun of it. (Context: Ireland is majority Catholic. The UK (England, Wales, Scotland, N. Ireland are majority Protestant.)

•Personally, as a BIPOC: I’m fine with JKR supporting a Black Hermione Granger being cast in the stage play, but she lied when she said she never described Hermione’s race... especially considering she went out of her way to describe the skin color of her non-white characters. Further, she described Hermione’s skin more than once.

Prisoner of Azkaban: “Hermione’s white face was sticking out from behind a tree.”

Half-Blood Prince, after Hermione got a black eye: “Hermione was sitting at the table in great agitation, while Mrs. Weasley tried to lessen her resemblance to half a panda.”

•Kingsley Shacklebolt is a mix between the “Magic Negro” and “noble savage” stereotypes. For those who don’t know, the noble savage is typically seen as an outsider who is untouched by corruption of ‘civilization’ or the society they find themselves a part of. The “Magic Negro” is a term coined by Spike Lee and refers to a Black character that has deep spiritual knowledge, enlightened and selfless, and of course, powerful-- but cannot save the day because... he’s not “fit” to be the protagonist. Kingsley is a Black man, portrayed to be African in the movies by his accent and dress (so doubly an outsider), who is part of the “noble and good” Order of the Phoenix, which fights against the corruption in Wizarding Britain. He is powerful, wise, and beloved enough that he becomes the first Minister post-war.

And then this essentially happened again with Seraphina Picquery. Yeah.

@cobaltexpositor also pointed out that Kingsley’s name including “shackles” is also extremely tone deaf and they’re right.

•The Patronus is a blatant bastardization of the Native American belief of spirit animals. (Link is to a Native American blog post explaining spirit animals.)

Let’s not forget that time JKR rewrote Native American history to suit her needs and in the process belittled their spiritual beliefs, healing practices, and medicine... and also made them white saviors. And, y’know, used real cultures as props for her imperialistic, fictional history.

Oh yeah, and thunderbirds are sacred to some tribes/Nations, so fuck her.

•Nagini. Oh dear, was that some racist, misogynist content right there. Someone decided it’d be a good idea to have Voldemort’s pet snake, who he used as a soul vessel, start out as an Asian woman who is cursed into an animal form. A South Korean woman was really made into a white man’s pet. I... I have no words. It was so unnecessary and so incredibly racist.

And then JKR explained herself by saying she got the idea from Indonesian mythology, and that Indonesia includes “a few hundred ethnic groups including Javanese, Chinese and Betawi.” Except... the actress, Claudia Kim, is Korean. Which is easily Googleable. (And she’d also previously called Nagini Albanian. And Nagini is actually a spiritual Sanskrit name. Oh, how the list goes on....) So JKR is either stupid, or racist. At this point, I’m inclined to go with both.

•Leta Lestrange is a tragic mulatta stereotype (”mulatto” is an old term for someone who is mixed white and Black. Please don’t call anyone this now. It’s racist). This caricature was prominent in 19th and 20th American century literature, where a mixed-race person was depicted as sad or suicidal because they didn’t fit into the white world or Black world. It was used to make slave characters more sympathetic to white readers. With Leta Lestrange... her white aristocrat father used a slave spell (Imperius) to kidnap and rape her Black mother. I cannot even begin to explain how fucking racist that is. She’s shown to be bullied at Hogwarts over being an unwanted child. And then on top of that, Leta dies to further the plot and emotional climax of the white male protagonist.

Y’all... I’m so livid about Leta Lestrange. It’s fucking disgusting.

And then, some tea for the fandom:

•The Death Eaters are literally modeled after the KKK, so please stop saying the main conflict in Harry Potter is not an allegory for race.

(I also don’t understand the fad with fans tattooing the Dark Mark permanently on your arm when there’s so much more positive symbolism from the series to choose from besides what’s essentially an Burning Cross tattoo, but... whatever.)

•And finally, many fans of a certain character need to hear this one: Severus Snape emotionally abused Neville Longbottom to the point that he was Neville’s greatest fear. He tortured a child under his care (plus used his teaching position to bully nearly a generation of students). That’s... so not okay.

Well. That was quite a bit longer than I expected. Feel free to add on anything I’ve missed.

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yurireview · 4 years

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Whiterose and the Supercorp syndrome

To start the scene between Ruby and Oscar will not lead to anything (the scene is not even romantic) ... but I think a good explanation is necessary for my Whiterose teammates to leave negativity.

Since I was a little absent I could see how many are "negative" for what happens with the Whiterose in this volume, many are already saying:

"I'm sorry for you fandom Whiterose"

"The Rosagarden will be canon"

There are times when the ships that are destined to be "Endgame" seem not to be when they try to force a Straight ship

Whiterose has Rosagarden

The Supercorp had Lames and Karamel (both equally bad)

The Supercorp is the best example of this even in spite of the adversities ... now it is the center of the plot and its future is bright (its 2 competitions sank and nobody misses it)

One of the things that helped this apart from chemistry, is that each interaction did develop its relationship which gave the material that both were "EndGame"

There was an acceptable context

First you have to analyze if the Rosagarden has material to be a canon?

I made a review of Rosagarden and how all their moments only had 13 min and that none had a "romantic" moment or even more significant than Whiterose'(here I leave the link) https://yurireview.tumblr.com/post/183745440112/why-the-rosagarden-does-not-work

but I will summarize 2 key moments in Vol 5 and 6 of RWBY

the dynamic between Ruby and Oscar does not exceed 5 minutes in the Vol 5 and Ruby really treats him like any of his other friends

let's just see the end (At no time can you see that it creates an emotional bond between the two) in fact the narrative ignores it.

It only focuses on the RWBY team but at the same time on the Whiterose (the link between Ruby and Weiss grew a lot after this)

that also moments before when she had to make the decision between helping Ozpin-Oscar or her sister…she decided to help her sister

It is safe to say that there is nothing about Rosagarden here (nothing was established)

Vol 6

Again this volume highlighted the Whiterose over the Rosagarden by far ... let's just observe the opening

This is Oscar

This is Ruby and Weiss

Again at the end of the season you could say that again the Whiterose was one of the main focuses and they had great moments between them (0 for the Rosagarden) the funniest thing is that in the end Ruby treats him like a child (like again from the group) ... so tell me, where is the establishment of the supposed Rosagarden canon?

there isn't, this one doesn't exist

Whiterose Vol 7-Supercorp season 3

As you know both cases are similar ... our ships receive almost no screen time and prefer that the protagonist talk to any other character and have their plot separated from the other.

While the other are "pairing" with another person

Supercorp fandom reactions were evident

Weiss is there (what a great irony)

The fandom Whiterose and others of the RWBY fandom are also having the same reaction as the Supercorp in this context ... it makes no sense.

Everyone even outside the fandom Whiterose notices how forced and stupid RT is being with the dynamics of Weiss and Ruby

That one there is one of my favorite conversations about Oscar ... as a character this fails because it is boring (apart from Ozpin inside) ... as I mentioned before is the "James Olsen" of the RWBY series and matching it with Ruby would be something so disastrous-pathetic for the show and for the protagonist ... as was the character of James for Lena

I think the difference is that Oscar is a shotacon (so the fandom tolerate it)

In general it is a couple that really does not add anything to the series and to top it is not profitable in the business sense. What do I mean?

Again the manga of RWBY always highlights the Whiterose (it is profitable) The merchandise highlights the Whiterose (because it is profitable)

We are a good part of the fandom of RWBY. Number 1 ship of Japon

As that girl said ... the Whiterose always stands out and it's not about showing off but (We have more fan art than any other RWBY ship)

Whiterose Vol 7

Even though I understand narratively why R.T is separating Weiss and Ruby a lot:

They are giving time to many unimportant characters They are developing Weiss drama alone to prove their independence more The conflict of Ruby's secret and that is moving away a little from everyone The return of Penny The Bumbleby The Renora

Ironically, the Rosagarden has not received 3 minutes of screen in this volume, so saying that this is "Canon" is ridiculous in every aspect ... but even when there are no talks between Ruby and Weiss, there is something that RT does.

The looks between Ruby and Weiss

Comparing their past interactions, Ruby and Weiss didn't do that kind of look between them before and less with so much devotion in their eyes ... it is likely that the lack of communication in this volume (which is making the whole fandom anxious) has a reason for the end in season ... that all this has a great result for the Whiterose

so personally I don't worry about Rosagarden because R.T is not so stupid to do something so forced like the Rosagarden that it ends badly

Like the Supercorp ... the Whiterose ship is one of those who has traded his own fandom

in conclusion ... just wait and as always show support for your ship, in the end they will do well the Supercorp never gave up and now they are about to prove the glory of being a canon, having said this I say goodbye until next time

#white rose #whiterose #rwby #ruby rose #supercorp #weiss schnee

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nhatlynguyennln · 3 years

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HOWL'S MOVING CASTLE: DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NOVEL AND MOVIE

New Post has been published on http://www.ngoisaokpop.com/howls-moving-castle-differences-between-novel-and-movie/

HOWL'S MOVING CASTLE: DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NOVEL AND MOVIE

HOWL’S MOVING CASTLE: DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NOVEL AND MOVIE

Link Video:

youtube

Opening

Following the resounding success of the 2001 animated classic Spirited Away, director Hayao Miyazaki continued to release a Japanese animated fantasy Howl’s moving castle. The film was inspired by the 1986 novel of the same name by British author Diana Wynne Jones.

Most Studio Ghibli fans turn to the book after watching the movie. This caused a little disappointment, a bit of “disillusionment” for the ladies who put too many dreams into the handsome wizard Howl in the movie. Although both the novel and the movie revolve around the two main characters – Sophie and Howl, there are huge differences in the storyline and character construction that cause both the novel and the film to turn in two directions.

Stay tuned with ASK KPOP until the end of the video to see what made “romantic fiction” fans disillusioned with the difference between novels and movies Howl’s moving castle.

Body

Sophie Hatter, a girl born into a family of hat makers, does not believe that luck will come to her and she will do something great in her life. She decided she would spend the rest of her life looking after the hat shop her father left. But her life changes after being cursed by the Witch of the Waste, turning her into an old woman, and worse yet, she can’t tell anyone about it. Fearing that her family would no longer recognize her, Sophie set out to find a way to cure the curse, and then arrived at Wizard Howl’s castle. Since then there is a big difference between books and movies, especially the plot and character lines.

The difference in the story between the novel and the movie

Because the novel Howl’s moving castle was written for children by writer Diana Wynne Jones, these factors such as : magic ,humor, fantasy come first. The content of the novel mainly tells about Sophie’s journey to break the curse. In that journey, Sophie has discovered the true strength of herself and the good qualities of those around her. However, when it was adapted to the big screen, director Hayao Miyazaki incorporated many lofty messages about love, peace, and anti-war.

Throughout the movie, we see a fight break out between Ingary (the land of Howl and Sophie is in) and the neighboring country, whereas there is no fierce battle in the original novel.

The whole movie revolves around the theme of anti-war, and its true villain is the pointless war and cause the loss. However, the original story directs the reader towards Sophie’s journey to find herself, how Sophie realizes her worth, which is partly through the movie. Coming to the movie, you will experience the brutal combat scene, the dark battleships .As for the book, Howl has to confront the Witch of the Waste and her powerful fire demon. The two missions of the movie and the novel have different message stories with different audiences, both great stories with their own merits.

The difference in the character’s personality between the novel and the movie

The second most highlighted difference between the novel and the movie is the characters. The characters in the book and in the movie are transformed from the original. Some minor characters have been removed or merged together with other characters. Characters with significant changes include:

(Howl)

Howl in the movie is a perfect version, a “Prince Charming” with many advantages in personality: courteous, gentle, and also the hero of fighting to protect Sophie.If you are familiar with this Howl image then Please be mentally prepared before reading the novel of the same name. Real name’s Howl is Howell Jenkins, from Wales. It is mentioned in the book that the castle door leads to different places according to the color on the door, and the blackness opens into a dark night. However, the side when that black curtain was Wales in the 1980s, with modern equipment such as cars and computers . This is not mentioned in the movie.

In terms of personality, Howl in the novel is actually a “lady-killer” who flirts with so many beautiful ladies and any girl will not escape by him, until they fall in love with him, he leaves without leaving a trace. This was also the source of his trouble with the Witch of the Waste Throughout the novel, Howl spends most of his time dressing and grooming in order to win the hearts of beautiful girls, including her sister Sophie. The rest of the time, Howl sulked and acted like a child beside Sophie. Howl in the novel does not want to tie and always tries to avoid responsibility. But the more we read, the more we like Howl in the novel, because his personality is especially funny and witty. “I’m a coward. Only way I can do something this frightening is to tell myself I’m not doing it.” Throughout the novel, we see only a Howl chasing the girls, his words in the last chapter confuse readers and other characters: Howl is still searching and saving people from being lost from the Witch. Meanwhile, he tells himself “I’m not doing it”.

Howl in the movie gets rid of Howl’s flaws of the novel. Because the movie’s message is hind-minded about peace protection and anti-war, a heroic character is needed to be able to send the message to the audience. The hero in the movie is Howl, he is idealized in the film, becomes a hero fighting for peace, denouncing the destructive power of war. When the court asked Howl to go to war, Howl refused ,not for his cowardness. He knew from which side the war was coming from, then the end was like that for everyone, just bring pain only. However, at night, Howl quietly turns into a monster out to fight alone, fighting against planes and monsters that both sides release to tear each other up. It is an ideal, incredibly romantic image of a hero fighting evil, fighting for peace, and fighting for the things he loves. In the end, Howl in both the novel and movie has to face Howl’s problems and settle it.

(Sophie)

Sophie in the novel has red hair, stubborn, straightforward, and always seems angry after being cursed. She sees cleaning as a way to forget about the problem she is facing. She often talks to hats, clothes, objects around and this brings miracles, even life to them. Meanwhile, Sophie in the movie has brown hair and is much softer. She also knows how to control her emotions better, and she cleans out of order. However, Sophie in the movie has no magical powers. This is most noticeable in the part where Sophie meets Turnip-Head. Turnip-Head in the story is an inanimate scarecrow, but gets up and follows Sophie after hearing her talk. In the movie, Turnip-Head had life when Sophie met him. While the-story Sophie was very scared of Turnip Head and wanted to chase him many times, the Sophie-movie was friendly, even grateful to the Turnip-Head.

Sophie in the story has sent a message: “When we are young, let us go out and explore ourselves, we will find our power hidden and know what our strength is. and where is our limit. ” That is a very precious meaning that Sophie’s journey to find herself brings back.

(Author)

Author Diana Wynne Jones observed that Howl and Sophie on-screen seemed “softer and more noble than their characters in my book.” In the movie, we really liked how Howl became “lost” as he transformed into a giant crow in battles and gradually “couldn’t return.” Meanwhile, Sophie’s curse fades more and more as she becomes stronger to save Howl and to heal herself. These details are not included in the book. However, I also want to say that Howl and Sophie in the book seem more real and that the quarrel between the two is what makes me appreciate their feelings more; love each other and learn to accept each other’s imperfections.

(Witch)

She was once a charming, powerful woman. Howl in the novel once chased and abandoned her. Both the story and the movie show Howl once captured a shooting meteor and gave it his heart in exchange for power, which is Calcifer. However, the sorceress in the novel cursed Howl to complete a list of things to do and they slowly led Howl back to her hand. In the movie, the witch tries to cast a curse on Howl, but he easily removes it. In the end, she lost her magic and became a pitiful, harmless old woman.

()

There are also some minor differences in the side characters. Sophie in the novel has two younger sisters, Lettie and Martha. Lettie is the younger sister sent to learn magic, and Martha is the assistant at the bakery. These two sisters exchanged looks and names in the beginning. Lettie is a huge support character in the series, even part 2 is present. However, the film only mentions Lettie – the sister at the bakery, and she can only say a sentence or two to Sophie and finish. Howl has an apprentice. In the book, he names Michael Fisher , a teenager. And, in the movie he names Markl , a boy. In the story, Suliman is the Royal Mage, male and missing. On screen, Suliman is a female magician who taught Howl before, and she is a bit mean.

Ending

“Howl’s Moving Castle” is a film with a stunning image and a beautiful European context, but it does not lose the Japanese culture, oriental styles of Ghibli. The good soundtrack both “The Promise With The World” and “Merry Go Round of Life” are great tunes but for us “Merry Go Round of Life” is still more beautiful, the scene of Howl holding Sophie’s hand , two people walking in the air together forever is a very beautiful, very romantic scene that is hard to describe in words.

Howl’s Moving Castle is not just a love story, a magical adventure and heart-fluttering romance, but also a story of growth and a journey to find oneself. Whether it’s a novel or a movie, the film’s meaningful message is expressed in tolerance, forgiveness after struggles, hatred, and curse. In addition, the extraordinary life energy of the people who have suffered many injuries in the film overcoming all the difficulties to achieve a happy destination is also the message that the filmmakers send to the audience.

#HOWL’S MOVING CASTLE

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friendly-peep · 4 years

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Which Homestuck characters would read Homestuck and their opinion

idk i’m bored. What’s Homestuck^2? What’s epilogues? We’re strictly Homestuck in this house. Also only doing main characters, I’m not going to dive into the Felt or caparacians, I want this to be done today.

Beta kids:

June: Avid reader. Got in early and read the whole thing. Got shirts, unironically liked it.

Rose: Got in late, but got into it. Loved the tarot deck, uses it to pretend she’s reading while she just tells people their truths. Noticed some narrative issues but overall liked it.

Dave: Got in shortly after June did, read for a while, but his irony poisoning led to him sassing the HECK out of it. Made a diss blog. Kept reading it “ironically” and cannot tell if he actually likes it or not. Got a god tier hoodie he wears at home. Sampled some of the soundtracks for his raps.

Jade: Loved it. LOVED IT. Got the full soundtrack. Made remixes. Got all the shirts. One of the blogs that posted “UPD8!” whenever an update happened. Big fanartist during the Gigapauses.

Beta Guardians:

June’s Dad: Tried to get into it to connect to his daughter’s interest, but the memes were too much, so he became the “Are ya winning, daughter?” dad. Very supportive but would need fifty slow paced “Homestuck explained” videos.

Mom Lalonde: Read it, but was too intoxicated to remember most. She holds obscure knowledge and will remember minute trivia, but don’t ask her about any of the large plot points.

Bro Strider: Too busy being A Mess Of A Human Being to sit down and read.

Poppop Harley: Too busy being A Dang Explorer to sit down and read.

Alpha kids:

Jane: Takes time to read it slowly. Has a blog of theories she constantly updates. Was upset about how some plot points got dropped and underdeveloped.

Roxy: Much like Jade, loved it. While Jade made remixes, Roxy cosplays. She has killer cosplays of most characters. Screamed about updates on twitter. No filter, accidentally drops spoilers left right and center.

Dirk: Deep, DEEP character examinations. Draws diagrams, writes essays. Unironically liked the potential of Paradox Space, may have even submit his own stories to be a guest artist.

Jake: Read the whole thing, liked it, missed many connections and plot points, was satisfied with the ending. Got some merch, can say “I read Homestuck” in public and be blissfully unaware of any positive and negative baggage that comes with saying so.

Alpha Guardians:

Jane’s Dad: Much like June’s Dad, tried to get into it. Unlike June’s Dad, watched and read his daughter’s theories (and Dirk’s explanations when Jane linked them to him) and became A Walking Homestuck Encyclopedia. Jane is unsure how to feel about this. He, however, does not reference it.

Roxy’s Rosemom: Too busy fighting the good fight to read. It’s in her radar but didn’t get the time to read it.

Dirk’s Davedad: Read it as a novelty. Sent Hussie a gold-plated Bad Dragon dildo. Put offhand references to it on his movies, but they were so oblique that even readers didn’t get it.

Jade English: Too busy running her own baking good company to read Homestuck. Not even in her radar.

Alternia Trolls:

Aradia: Much like Dirk, got REAL DEEP into it. Makes youtube vids explaining classpects and narrative points. Actually wrote a dissertation on Homestuck.

Tavros: Tried to get into it, but the first few acts were not to his taste so he never got to the trolls ironically enough. Likes the character designs though.

Sollux: Next level Dave. Critiques the FUQUE out of it on every platform he can. If Hatedom is a thing, he made it. He’s the founder. It’s him. But he read it to the end.

Karkat: Read it, loves it, does some interesting character relationship examinations. Predicted who would end up with who with 100% accuracy. Wasn’t a vocal fan, didn’t get merch, but still liked it.

Nepeta: The shipper who launched a thousand ships. She writes crackfic but with deep care, making sure it makes sense that characters would end up together. Got one of every homestuck shirt. Very into it.

Kanaya: Got into it only because her friends got into it. If Karkat hadn’t talked about it she would not have gotten into it but she did because she wants to be able to carry a conversation with her friends. Not a huge fan.

Terezi: She can and WILL correct you if you get trivia wrong. She did not sit through hours of text-to-speech pesterlogs for some scrub to get it wrong. Defiant Homestuck defender. She’ll cut you if you say you don’t like Homestuck (she won’t, but she’s judging you from the other side of the room)

Vriska: Skipped the first acts and jumped right into Alternia. Little context, little care. Pretends she didn’t, gets facts hilariously wrong which Terezi takes as an invitation to tease her. Fanartist.

Equius: Another fanartist. He made physical media as opposed to drawings. Slow reader, got into it late and didn’t finish until way after the comic had ended. Did not get to experience the comic without Random Paradox Arms all over the place. Loved by the community for his short reaction posts about what happened at the point he’s at.

Gamzee: Either first person to post “Update” when comic updated, or doesn’t read for months and then catches up in two days. Skips many chat logs, but still gets most of the plot no problem. Remembers exact phrasing of the posts he does read though.

Eridan: Another Character Analysis blogger. He dives into (pun unintended) why some characters are The Absolute Worst and writes fanfic of how they would be if they had a chance to be in a different circumstances. The Problematique fan, but only because people assume the worst of him. He’s actually pretty chill.

Feferi: Superfan, and Super Content Creator. Started making plushies and charms and eventually started selling them. Her stuff became a badge of honor and people posted themselves hugging their plushies during the gigapause.

Ancestors:

Too busy caught up in their personal turmoils to read any of it. Except the Condesce. She sent Hussie a diamond-studded Bad Dragon dildo.

Beforus trolls:

Damara: Big fan, but doesn’t express it because of the crowd she’s with. But she has a blog where she tries to get in touch with new readers and is always open to answer questions others might have. Not a Big Name fan, but she’s much more vocal online than in person, and even then it’s through an alt account.

Rufioh: Got people into it, but he himself didn’t finish reading after the Scratch. Said he would but he just never got to doing so.

Mituna: Prone to ranting when updates happened. Very emotionally invested, nearly died when Game Over happened.

Kankri: The nitpicker to end all nitpicks. He critiqued everything, and hated that there were hero mode, simplified and silly drawings. Genuinely disliked all characters for faults that he himself has, yet never self-examined. Got a following that consisted three-quarters of people who made fun of his rants and one-quarter of people who were as intense as he is.

Meulin: Big, BIG fan. Prolific fanfic writer, if a character pairing exists, rarepair or not, she wrote a fic about them. Likes all characters and as such thinks she must devote roughly the same wordcount for everyone she can. Disappears for months then reemerges with twenty new fics.

Porrim: Moderate fan, great cosplayer. The more complex the outfit, the more she wanted to make it. Routinely goes out in Jade’s Dead Shuffle and Three in the Morning dresses because she is incredibly proud of them.

Latula: Not a big fan. Knows most of what she knows through cultural osmosis because her friends got into it, but she’s not likely to ever read it herself. Likes how into it her friends are though.

Aranea: Much like Jane’s Dad, she’s the walking encyclopedia, except she memorized the content of almost every page, and if she doubts her knowledge, will immediately go to her computer and look up what she is unsure of. Tries not to talk people’s ears off and will only talk about Homestuck when asked about it.

Horuss: Super into it. To a maybe creepy degree. Doesn’t show in public but if you get access to his secret blogs it’s more like character shrines. Don’t dig too deep into it.

Kurloz: Read it, kinda into it, but not that big of a fan. He will talk about it but he’s pretty lukewarm about the whole thing.

Cronus: Read it to impress a crush, got genuinely into it, but isn’t a vocal fan.

Meenah: Didn’t read it, much like Latula learned about it because everyone around her talked about it. Unlike Latula, she mocks everyone for liking something she says is “for nerds”. Still kinda wants to read it to be part of the conversation but her pride of Not Knowing About Homestuck is too great to overcome that hurdle.

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bronyinabottle · 3 years

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Starlight Glimmer/Post-Secrets Of The Dragon’s Tear Thoughts

So now that Secrets of the Dragon’s Tear is finished. I can now sort of put some reflections on some of the things that I did. I did a lot to expand the lore of I Dream of Twilight Sparkle and/or give my sort of interpretation of where some characters could go after the final two-parter and tried my darndest to fit it in a way that wouldn’t be too farfetched if some details were actually canon. From Scootaloo helping out the Wonderbolts expand, Sweetie starting her music career, Dragons not having marriages, Moondancer having had a crush on Twilight, Where Spike’s egg was found and who his dragon mother was and what happened to her along with how his egg ended up in Equestria and get linked with Twilight in such a way given there was not any other Pony/Dragon companionship in the show ever. And of course all of the lore expansions that was revealed with Twilight speaking to Jennesis and Jinn, plus Applejack and family reuniting with her deceased parents (Obviously FiM is the kind of show that doesn’t let you say death. But there’s absolutely no way they’re alive judging from some of the faces and even a few subtle lines in the episode The Perfect Pear.)

But funnily enough, one huge part of the story that I didn’t quite expect to have. Was the entirety of Starlight’s part of the story. You see, Starlight Glimmer was a character I was always… kind of lukewarm towards. I could never quite get past how quick her redemption was plus from what we are told… she almost rebooted the timeline… just because her friend got a cutie mark and left (Which by that logic, Moondancer should have become a villain too. She’d probably have even connected more as a villain since at least she had a connection to Twilight. I’m not saying I would of preferred Moondancer be a villain as I like how she actually is. But having her episode where she only become a shut-in after Twilight didn’t show up at her party and moved to Ponyville sort of become detrimental to Starlight’s story that she went as far as she did after Sunburst moved). We never got any more details about that other then Starlight felt sad about that and it was somehow enough to start her turn to darkness not to mention never got an explanation for why she was so magically powerful. Even besides ridiculous stuff like turning kitchen utensils into a cake, she’s able to levitate herself without wings which we can assume is something Twilight can’t even do.

So Starlight kind of became a rather frustrating character. I never hated her per se, but it’s easy to see why she was sort of a divisive character when she’s sort of shoehorned as a recurring character with a rather weak turn-to-villainy story combined with a magic power that without the proper explanation I’m sure got her cursed out as a Mary Sue. And some of those actually had a point, unlike the people who thought Twilight getting her wings would instantly make her a Mary Sue. And even with some episodes coming up that might of promised some more Starlight backstory, it never exactly went that way. I am sort of thankful for that now, given it gave me free reign to do what I did for Starlight in the story. But stuff like Parent Map certainly only gave really small details like Starlight had a goth phase and didn’t even show a mother for her (Again thankful for that now since one of the big plot twists of the story depends on almost no one knowing who Starlight’s mother is aside from obviously her father who had a reason to keep her a secret)

When Starlight was dropped from being Twilight’s student in Season 7. That was something of a relief because the fear was that Starlight was going to become an Alicorn and she still wouldn’t enough backing to really support making her a Princess. Even if you weren’t a fan of Twilight becoming an Alicorn, there’s no denying that prior to Magical Mystery Cure we didn’t really know the ultimate goal of Celestia mentoring Twilight for. It didn’t seem right that she mentored her just to free her sister, save the world some more on occasion before, as she just spends her life with her friends. Even Lauren Faust’s vision was Twilight to succeed Celestia at some point, and in that context seems like it makes sense that Twilight became an Alicorn. Starlight becoming an Alicorn however risked being everything people feared about Magical Mystery Cure but worse since with how quick and with lack of explantation they did with adding Starlight as a recurring character that even has two-parters that star her instead of the Mane 6, that Starlight’s ascension was going to be when Twilight feels she is ready despite having never given the audience everything we should want to know about Starlight, not to mention many of us still not quite forgiving her for nearly rebooting the timeline over… and I’ll repeat… a friend moving away.

So then, Starlight become a counselor in the school and had a few episodes involving that. And later, she is promoted to be Twilight’s successor to be Principal of the school. Which currently is how the show decided to keep as her canon role even up the more then a decade long timeskip in The Last Problem. Being a Principal of the School of Friendship is still a rather big deal. Though with the school only having been around for two seasons before the series ended it never really felt like it had too much of an impact so it kind of seemed like it gave Starlight a pretty mundane role that cools the fears of those who were afraid they were going to give a role to Starlight she doesn’t feel like she deserves without enough information about her. Though I imagine it may have been somewhat of an underwhelming choice for anybody who did like Starlight.

So Starlight’s legacy as a character goes like this: She’s Season 5’s seasonal villain that got quickly reformed in that season’s finale. Got important episodes in Season 6 and even gets to save Equestria alongside Trixie and Discord in Season 6’s finale. In Season 7 she’s stripped of being Twilight’s student to do whatever she wants. Though it was generally just slice of life with her own batch of friends whether it was Trixie, Sunburst, or Maud. And then she becomes a counselor in Season 8, promoted to Principal near the end of nine. Throughout her time on the show she’s sort of both an important protagonist throughout Seasons 6 and 7, but she never reaches quite Mane 6 or even CMC level in terms of working towards a clear goal or occupation. Other then I guess being tutored on the values of Friendship by Twilight we have no clear direction on where Starlight was supposed to go. So upon the School of Friendship, she’s free to essentially get employed under Twilight again but as a counselor throughout all of Season 8 and some of 9 until she’s given the reigns of the school after Twilight’s own promotion to sole ruler in Canterlot. So we’re left with a divisive character in the show that was never given enough to really tackle doubters, and perhaps underwhelming to her fans. So now the question becomes, is there perhaps a direction that could of been taken where Starlight could of possibly been fixed to a point where she may have worked into a more important role then she actually got that satisfies her fans that also at the same time has the backstory/information necessary to placate those skeptical of Starlight after her fast reformation?

As someone who just wrote Secret’s of the Dragon Tear where at least 7 of 32 chapters are centered around exploring something in regards to Starlight’s character and/or her family. I think I can say firmly: Yes. After writing this story, Starlight’s no longer a character I feel lukewarm/don’t care for. She quickly became… perhaps one of the biggest missed opportunities of the show. I believe now that Starlight could have been a great portion even if her turnaround was rather quick. What I did in the story I feel like provides a good baseline for not just making Starlight more sympathetic/understandable. But maybe even have it make sense that she perhaps eventually reaches an important role… even possibly becoming an Alicorn Princess in the future. Which is something of a turnaround for myself, since I would of groaned if she had been put on a path to possibly become a Princess in the show… but with what I came up with this story…. I couldn’t find it myself to stick with the idea that she only decided to stay a Principal and that’s it. Now, I’m not going to say that everything I did in the story would of had to been followed to make it work. Even just the concepts being similar or at least only a few of these being applied in some fashion could of worked to make Starlight better. So I’m going to sort of bullet point some things that come up in the story in order of which we first learn about them. Starting with…

I. Starlight’s relationship with her father/Firelight

Now obviously, Firelight is a father that loves Starlight very much. That’s obvious in the episode The Parent Map. Perhaps to the point where it’s overbearing, still calling her childish nicknames despite being grown-up. But nonetheless we can plainly see Firelight is a loving father… that said a loving father doesn’t necessarily always mean a good father. You can still have a complicated relationship with a parent that loves you. They treat you as well as you can, but perhaps they keep secrets from you. Or they’re naive to your intentions and/or what you’re doing. Even putting aside Secrets of the Dragon’s Tear for a moment, despite Firelight being so loving Starlight still became that vengeful pony that took over a town with a cult and would reboot the timeline just to get revenge on ponies for foiling her plan that she concocted all because of Sunburst’s moving away. Obviously, something went wrong if her father couldn’t have told her daughter what was right or wrong. It’s likely Firelight was just too naive to even see what his daughter was planning. Firelight should have been the first one to at least try to help Starlight out before she did anything related to that cult. But unless he was utterly complicit in Starlight’s plan, which we’re given no evidence that he was… clearly Starlight was able to hide much of her turn to darkness to her father. I have to imagine that at the very least Firelight may have had to at least see a hint of Starlight’s disgust with cutie marks, (More on that soon) But either Firelight perhaps just naively thought Starlight would eventually understand cutie marks on her own, or something about her cutie mark he knew about but he decided to attempt hiding Starlight from it as what happens in Secrets of the Dragon’s Tear.

But once again putting aside the story for a moment, it might of been interesting to learn what was Firelight’s role in Starlight’s past. Exploring that would have been an interesting direction for the show to take to give a little more depth to her backstory. Now it isn’t just that she turned to darkness because of Sunburst getting her cutie mark, but also she had a father that while he still loves her, didn’t quite inquire enough to try to stop her early on. Obviously the danger in that is telling to keep too much of a watch on your daughter to the point you helicopter them over all the time. But also it is imperative for a father to help out if their children are feeling some sort of resentment about something before it snowballs into something later. And without a mother (More on this soon as well), it’s possible to get to maybe Firelight’s side of the story in that being a single father was hard for him. On a side note we’re not even sure if Firelight is even aware of what Starlight did with the town or the time travel. That could of been an interesting thing alone to explore.

II. Starlight’s Cutie Mark

Seriously, we never got Starlight’s cutie mark story ever. That felt like one of the most important things to learn even if it was understandable why the staff didn’t want deal too much with family issues for Starlight (After all it took 7 seasons before we saw Applejack’s deceased parents, and even then they still had to go for a “Do not say death” sort of thing). It even seemed like Season 5 had like THE perfect set up for Season 6 once there was more Starlight episodes: Having the CMC who had just gotten a group talent of helping others with marks including Troubleshoes potentially being the big foreshadowing episode that would indicate the CMC would be capable of helping adults too with this seasonal villain who’s motivations were cutie marks.

But… we just never got it. It might be perhaps the biggest reason Season 6 mostly fell flat for me. Some say Season 8 is the worst season of the show and I can kind of understand why, but it feels like the School of Friendship actually does something by the end of the series that’s sort of worth it and the Student 6 were generally fun characters. While Season 6 fails at what should of been easy lay-ups from what Season 5 seemed to be setting up. It’s probably fair to say Season 6 had more interesting/quality episodes perhaps, but in terms of the general over-arching part of the series. Season 8 felt like it had a purpose while Season 6’s job was to endear Starlight to us after the Season 5 finale… and it feels like it failed at that for the most part. At least in my opinion, I know obviously Starlight had fans and still has them now and I don’t mean to stomp on any valid reasons for liking Starlight even back then for one reason or another. I just felt like I needed more to really understand Starlight’s role. And it took until writing this story and filling many of the holes left by Starlight’s part of the show to understand that Starlight had potential, she just never quite reached it I feel. And even fans of her I feel like may feel underwhelmed with what they overall did with her. Starlight telling how she got her cutie mark should of been the priority of the first two-parter if not the next Starlight episode after or at least near the end or even the Season 6 finale. But instead we never get it despite how relevant it feels like it would of been to find out.

The first priority of whenever the writer’s meeting were when they started pitching ideas for Season 6 should have made showing how Starlight got her cutie mark as the #1 priority. They reformed a villain who’s entire motivation for villainy was a friend who moved away because they got their mark. It’s almost hard to believe that the writer’s chose to ignore the entire time to the point that maybe behind closed doors for some reason Hasbro didn’t want Starlight’s cutie mark story for one reason or another. It should have been as clear as day that the next course of action was to share that story cause the idea of a pony who does’t like cutie mark but getting a make that perhaps refers to their high talent would have been interesting to be explored into. And potentially gives the CMC after getting their Cutie Marks their most important scene in the show in letting us understand Starlight’s motivations and/or how she felt about getting her cutie mark and even a better understanding of what she thinks it means and whether it’s dissonant from what it actually means or not. I hate to sound like the demanding fan, but it just should of came up before stuff like Starlight meeting Trixie, saving the world herself, all her new friendshipping episodes in Season 7, and her counseling/school episodes in 8 and 9. Those stuff had a right to happen but for some reason we just never got the single thing that felt like that was important to know.

So I definitely went to rectify it even if it’s rather simple and a little bit of a copycat since it’s similar to how Twilight got hers and kind of too convenient that the thing that would give her cutie mark was also with the book that would introduce Starlight down the path of her ideology on Cutie Marks. Though coincidental timing of Cutie Marks happen quite a bit so it wouldn’t be farfetched. But I understand if perhaps I have it a little too simple for someone who complains about the show never getting to it. But even if you feel I did Starlight’s cutie mark story wrongly. I wanted to at least give a good try at it that the show never took the steps to.

III. Starlight’s missing Mother / Sunset Shimmer’s role in Secrets of the Dragon’s Tear

Now, obviously the show would of never gone with the direction my story went with Sunset Shimmer being Starlight’s missing mother. Sunset had been already established in Equestria Girls, and even though arguably Sunset should be quite a bit older then Twilight if say she had went through the mirror sometime before Celestia discovered Twilight. Her being in high school would of made the issue of Sunset being Starlight’s mother… VERY, VERY, Awkward without having to explain complicated time discrepancies between portals to kids or more likely parents who may think the show is promoting teen motherhood. Luckily, the events of the Equestria Girls movies have never been canon to Genie Twilight’s universe outside of Genie Sci-Twi in a blog entirely about genie MLP characters in different universes meeting up. So it entirely freed up not just to give Sunset a role in this story, but plausibly old enough to be Starlight’s mother. I think of the Mane 6 of at least around 25 or so by the end of the series. So keeping in mind that in Secrets of the Dragon’s Tear. Sunset disappeared about 8 or so years before Celestia discovered Twilight and how Sunset was about Twilight’s current age at the time. If Sunset had been still alive in my story, she’d have been at least close to her 40’s. Plenty old enough to have been Starlight’s mother.

It really felt like an eureka moment in about October when I found out I could possibly link Sunset and Starlight in a way that’s feasible enough to make her Starlight’s mother. Cause it’s an entirely unique relation between the two. When Sunset and Starlight are in the same conversation or sentence. It’s often about which character is better in fan arguments (With Sunset generally being more popular since she’s probably the most well-liked thing about Equestria Girls where as Starlight has always been a source of divisiveness in the main show), the one time that Starlight appeared in an Equestria girls special, or… shipping… (Which I know anybody who reads my story is about to make every single art and/or fan fiction about Starlight and Sunset hooking up very, very, very, very, VERY, awkward). But Sunset being Starlight’s mother would at least give a plausible explanation for why Starlight’s so good at magic since she likely inherited the strong magic genes from one of the few other ponies to catch Celestia’s attention enough to make them her protege. Plus, it’s fun to think of a family that decided to rhyme their last name, I naturally wrote that as something that Firelight proposed to Sunset. So that’s why at least in Genie Twi’s universe, you have Shimmer and Glimmer. In most Alt. universe fics involving Sunset being a family member of another known canon character it’s usually either she’s Celestia’s daughter, or Sunburst’s sister. I did have to make it so she is related to Sunburst, but she’s far too old to be a sibling to him in the story. And that’s when I decided to connect Sunset to Sunburst’s father… Sunspot… who was also coincidentally missing from The Parent Map. Though apologies to any Starburst shipping fans for sinking your ship in my story by making Starlight and Sunburst cousins all along.

But anyway, I’d even say if you look at Sunset and Firelight together you could kinda see why they could of made Starlight. I guess to be fair, it doesn’t really look like Starlight got any of Sunset’s physical traits. As appearance wise it definitely looks like she got a lot of her father, though maybe at the very least Sunset’s genes lightening up the purple into the pink/light-purple Starlight is. But I think at the very least there’s some similarities personality wise that worked such as their temper. Now, the Sunset in Secrets of the Dragon’s Tear was never a villain so they can’t relate in terms of feeling guilt for what they’ve done. But perhaps another trait they share is empathy, in that Starlight’s past experience allows her to personally talk to others as a sort of comfort that someone once felt like them about some things, which is probably at least part of the reason she’d made counselor. And as for Sunset, her whole flashback power from Legend of Everfree and onward is how she finds out motivations and is able to talk to them to understand them. And the EQG staff have even said that if Sunset had an element, it’d be the Element of Empathy. Obviously part of that is Sunset having her own experiences as a villain, but I still kind of applied it to SOTDT’s Sunset when she hears Starlight admit everything about her time travel incident where she’s at first quite disturbed that her daughter would do such an act, but hearing how the fact her death had such an impact on Starlight where there were quite a few things outside of Starlight’s hooves that if even one thing changed might of made it less likely she did what she did. And the cult thing is partly Sunset’s fault for leaving the cult book in the house (Even if she did kind of do good at hiding it by having it randomly behind a wall she couldn’t have known was ever going to be broken into) allowed her to understand the circumstances of Starlight’s life to get to that point of desperation.

As she says, it didn’t make what Starlight did justified but thanks to Starlight being able to come clean and willing to become a better pony is enough to get empathy, especially from a perspective of a mother to a child who would of likely been able to stop Starlight if she had been around. Everything Starlight did is now found out as an unfortunate circumstance from the rather bad luck she had in life in things she could not control. She couldn’t have prevented her mother’s death, her father refused to tell her who her mother was that would of probably gotten her to go to Celestia’s school had she known at the time she got her cutie mark thus reunited with Sunburst and having less of an issue with cutie marks when it would of turned out it was indicative of her potential in magic skill, but instead without a single mother figure and boredom of being alone in the house she accidentally discovers both the book that would indoctrinate her for years to eventually starting the Our Town cult and her mother’s spell book that would give her the cutie mark she received, thus begrudging her own moment of gaining her mark when it should of been a good day for her and with an overprotective father afraid of Starlight following a path he doesn’t want her to go on, for fear of Starlight going missing at some point too. It just deepens Starlight’s road to darkness. So instead Starlight’s raw power was set on a path to endanger Equestria, rather then potentially becoming at least a powerful ally if her father had allowed her to go to the school. Again, doesn’t make almost rebooting the timeline justified but at least made it more understandable why she fell so far to almost do it rather then it seemingly only be about the fact a friend moved away.

But anyway, ignoring Sunset in the story for a moment. If there was an interesting idea for Starlight’s mother it certainly would of possibly been a very interesting episode of the show. If Starlight’s mother is dead, then you have kind of have a way for Starlight to bond with Applejack over. I naturally had to have them talk about it even at the point of the story where it was still unknown who her mother was. Cause whether it was a missing or a dead mother, they both don’t have a part of their lives that their friends do. So having Starlight bond with a part of the Mane 6 other then Twilight would of certainly been interesting. Of course, if Starlight’s mother is still around. Perhaps part of Starlight’s story could of been about a messy divorce, and/or even a rather rough relationship with her mother akin to Diamond Tiara and her mother. This is of course assuming that Starlight wouldn’t have just had a normal mother that just happened to not be there for the Parent Map which might of been the way they went if they went ahead with showing who her mother was. But yes, Starlight’s mother is another part of Starlight that could of had plenty of potential to help endear her to fans. As for me… I just ended up making myself if not anybody else look awkwardly if I ever see shipping stuff between Starlight and Sunset in the future knowing that in my AU, that would be incest. Oof.

IV. Starlight as Twilight’s Student / Starlight’s Future

Now after talking about Starlight’s cutie mark and family issues. Kind of going back a little in Starlight’s first role after being reformed in becoming Twilight’s student. Naturally, this is the thing that got people worried that they were going to put Starlight on a path to become an Alicorn because naturally Twilight picking a student would have you believe that’s where things are going since that’s where Twilight ended up. Though once Season 7 rolled around, Starlight actually graduates in some fashion and is just no longer Twilight’s student. Which while it came as a relief personally, it also kind of makes the whole thing weird to just cut out Starlight’s role as Twi’s student after she was for literally only one entire season. Without the proper backstory, it just became a lose/lose situation. Either Starlight gets a role she doesn’t feel like she’s earned or her role as Student just underwhelms in comparison to the other two times we’ve seen an Alicorn teacher and a unicorn student (Whether that was Sunset which ran away from Celestia’s guidance started a spin-off series and became a well-liked character in her own right from Rainbow Rocks and onwards or Twilight naturally having earned her status over saving the world a few times and getting better at magic.) Though the former also has other problems like it’s just hard to think of how to fit Starlight in with the Princesses on her own without the proper history to back it up.

But that’s where I get back into my story, where in the epilogue. And also the post this thoughts is being linked, after having met her mother which has helped made her realize who she is. She realizes that she may have been in fact destined to be in some sort of duo with Twilight. Cause going by the timeline of events: Sunset wasn’t too far from possibly one day ascending to Princesshood, however she stepped down before then, and thus Celestia had to look elsewhere. Before she found Twilight, she concluded that perhaps Sunset’s foal (Which she noticed Sunset was probably pregnant) might inherit Sunset’s power and she can begin anew from there as it would be when that foal is grown up when her sister’s banishment would end. But in a twist, Celestia goes to Saddle Arabia and gets a dream of getting the right pony to hatch Spike’s egg. Leaving it as an exam at the school first in case there were students there that could hatch it, but if they all failed she would seek out Sunset and hope she’s willing to let whoever her child would be to try hatching the egg. But instead, Celestia discovers Twilight first. But with Starlight receiving a mark that recognizes her raw power similar to Twilight from her mother’s spell book. If she had known about her mother and/or didn’t have a grudge against cutie marks to understand what her mark means, she might have gone to the school where waiting for her would be Celestia who already had Twilight. Perhaps leading to an intense magic duel between two gifted fillies, before ultimately it’s broken up to where Celestia can’t let go of Twilight because of the dream she had. But if Celestia is aware of Starlight’s history, she would of been nice enough to keep Starlight around in respect for her former Protege, especially if Celestia had known that she was deceased or even still just missing. Thus sort of having Twilight and Starlight grow up as co-proteges under Celestia. Now from there, it’d be hard to really figure all the what ifs of Twilight and Starlight being co-students from the very beginning and whether it’d change up the whole Elements of Harmony deal. Perhaps similar to how Celestia and Luna were able to harness the Elements just being two ponies. Maybe there wouldn’t be a Mane 6 at all and Twilight & Starlight would each carry 3 of the elements. Or the Mane 6 still happen, but Starlight being the sort of junior student is not one of the Elements though she still helps however she can when Nightmare Moon returns.

But of course this is a hypothetical situation that doesn’t happen at all with many things getting in the way, but kind of thanks to the idea that Luna is retiring at the end of Season 9 too it offers a sort of opening where it seems weird that Celestia and Luna is just dropping both the Sun and Moon on Twilight’s shoulders as a sole ruler. There’s no doubt Twilight would be capable, as the Last Problem shows. But nonetheless while there was a period of 1000 years of Celestia being sole ruler after Luna was banished. It wasn’t the norm, so to go from the beginning of the sisters reign with 2, down to 1 because of banishment, back to 2, but then 1 again since both sisters were retiring may seem a bit odd. So in a scenario where perhaps Starlight feels compelled to use her strong magic for the good of Equestria alongside being able to follow in her mother’s footsteps she’d want to be the student of who’s ever going to be the reigning monarch for a long while, and while she certainly doesn’t want to force it and let Twilight decide, whether she’s a student for life or eventually is chosen to sort of be Luna’s successor in terms of being the younger Alicorn. And with Celestia and Luna both retiiring, that means falling under Twilight’s tutelage once again but a bigger scope then the one throughout Season 6. She could still be Principal even as she has the status of Twilight’s student, as we saw Twilight did plenty of things, while known as Celestia’s student. And like is pointed out, being a Principal in a school where non-ponies are allowed to attend is actually somewhat the perfect warm-up for if Starlight eventually becomes a co-ruler with Twilight. She would have basically seen what are multiple ambassadors in terms of students from other nations, their parents, or whatever guardians brings them along to attend the school.

So, it gives a legitimate reason for Starlight to perhaps become Twilight’s student once again. There’s still going to be a due diligence in Starlight learning from Twilight for a good amount of years. In fact it’s likely I won’t explicitly share the result of going back to being Twilight’s student until whenever I decide I feel it’s time for me to close down I Dream of Twilight Sparkle (I don’t know when that will be, it will probably at least go until the end of 2022 Where perhaps I’ll end it officially after what will be 10 years since the blog began. Though also may depend how G5 is). Likely for the rest of the time until then Starlight will only be a student again. I don’t think I plan on showing Starlight’s moment of ascension if it happens as I’d like to think that Twilight and Starlight both mutually agree to make sure enough time has passed and Starlight has the experience after years of being the Principal of Friendship and/or enough missions that Twilight might send her on. And while Starlight hints she’s likely not to, it’s also Twilight giving time for Starlight in case she wants to back out if say she finds herself with a feeling like her mother to instead raise a family.

Basically after going through the effort to give Starlight such a role she has in the story. It didn’t feel right to leave her as just the Principal of the School of Friendship and that’s it. Another shot at being Twilight’s student I feel makes sense in a scenario where to honor her mother’s legacy and use the magic she inherited to it’s fullest potential is to once again be a faithful student to the ruling Alicorn.

And this is a rather huge step for me since I used to just not care too much for Starlight. And some of her episodes kind of made it harder since for one or another they were sort of problematic from No Second Prances where I feel Twilight probably should of been more lenient with Trixie, To Change a Changeling where Starlight messes up but it somehow works out anyway, and then there was A Matter of Principals where Discord might have been at his most infuriating yet Starlight actually forgives him near the end. With episodes like those and with the lack of more details about Starlight’s past it’s easy to see why Starlight was divisive. Though with this story, Starlight seems to me now like a pretty mishandled character that could have worked with the right direction, but just could never meet the potential that she could of had. Obviously maybe part of it was that the staff maybe knew Starlight was sort of shoehorned so they wanted to make sure there was still plenty of space for episodes about the Mane 6 or other characters that the fans have watched since the first season, as well as whatever ideas they wanted to do for each season until they got the word that Season 9 would be the last. But even considering that it feels like it could of been plausible to replace the more slice-of-life Starlight episodes with something that explains her a little more then we got. As besides from the Season 5 finale the only things we learn about Starlight’s past is a little more of her friendship with Sunburst, where she grew up, who her father was, and she had a goth phase as a teen. If I’m missing anything else they hinted or shared about Starlight’s past let me know, but there just wasn’t a lot for a character that feels like she needed it.

I’m not saying my story is the only way for Starlight to have been fixed. But just at least mentioning some key elements that would have helped. Change a few things around of the keys I laid out even if it of course it wouldn’t be the exact same or couldn’t be the exact same for obvious reasons (Most big of all Sunset who once again despite it probably making sense that she’d be old enough in the pony world if she was grown up when she went across the mirror the first time, is still a high schooler in Equestria Girls) and either way it certain would of helped. While I’m sure there’s probably many fanfics about it already, even something as simple as turning Starlight and Sunburst’s relationship into a shipping story (Obviously not in Genie Twi’s AU though, since they’re cousins) where Starlight reuniting with Sunburst makes her rekindle a little more then just their friendship. Where it shows that perhaps Sunburst leaving was secretly a little more then just Starlight being heartbroken about her only friend leaving. Even if that’s the only change it would of helped. So in a way, I’ve come to like Starlight Glimmer much more then I used to but kind of in a way that she’s now a disappointing character if you don’t have anything to fill in the gaps and only go by what’s shown about Starlight in the show. But when those gaps ARE filled by some sort of fanon, suddenly she can actually be quite interesting and now I have a Starlight that I feel like I can get to like and shape for myself where even if she did all the same things the show Starlight did, it at least feels to me I thought of a satisfying enough reason for why it all happened. She doesn’t have to be completely forgiven about the Time Travel thing as that’s probably her biggest sin, but the important part was that Starlight could feel shame and remorse… which gets into my last category

V. Contrasting Starlight with the Villains Post-Reformation

With Starlight no longer a villain after Season 5 and on the side of good, it will come time for her to face some villains of her own. Though the first thing she faced wasn’t exactly a villain but just some dangerous winter storm that would envelop the Crystal Empire if the Crystal Heart isn’t fixed in time. Which is understandable since that episode is generally about Starlight reuniting with Sunburst after having been told him leaving was Starlight’s motivation. They again unfortunately go too deep on that, though still least shows Starlight has some kind of almost PTSD-like feeling prior to seeing him again. It wouldn’t be until the Season 6 finale before Starlight faces her first true villain with Queen Chrysalis on a revenge plan after Canterlot Wedding. I think generally Chrysalis and Starlight was a pretty good rivalry, that lasts for the entire rest of the series even after Starlight tried to have her own moment of reforming a villain in a similar reaching-out-the-hoof fashion to her own. Only for Chrysalis to just slap it away.

Though Chrysalis is actually the only one Starlight ever gets to directly fight besides of course the big final fight where there is an entire army of ponies who attack the trio of Cozy, Chrysalis, and Tirek. Starlight only gets manipulated and trapped in the ball of magic by Cozy, Starlight is one of Sombra’s hypnotized army and in the final two-parter she gets a brief fight with Chrysalis where she’s defeated by the much more powered-up Chrysalis before she’s the first one Discord tricks Tirek into freeing to help the Mane 6 escape. Perhaps it’s another disappointment in that while it was kind of still interesting to have Starlight have this rivalry with Chrysalis. Starlight didn’t have much of a connection to the others.

And this is the point I again get to a part of my story, where I actually made Cozy Glow perhaps one of the central figures of Starlight’s past being a part of the family that are responsible for the death of her mother (Even though of course they didn’t come out unscathed since Cozy’s parents both died in that confrontation too, and Cozy was sent to the future by the unpredictable effects of Sunset firing magic with a broken horn). I’ll kind of admit it is sort of stretching things to just try to tie things together as much as possible, but Cozy Glow is a character we know even less about then Starlight. And despite being a little filly, she’s treated like this ultimate evil on the level of Tirek since she’s sent to Tartaurus. Which confuses a lot of fans who are used to this show usually reforming the villains. Which is probably why it was a good idea to actually sort of make it so that she definitely did deserve the fate she got by revealing her upbringing would make it impossible for her to be reformed. Just outing her as a complete psychopath that no friendship lessons were going to change her, as unfortunately there are people in real life that just can’t be changed and the only proper answer is some kind of justice for them that discourages others from following their path. Cozy’s just a filly, but when she’s indoctrinated by those just as psychopathic, at least in the Genie Twi AU it would take outright brainwashing.

Having Cozy have a role with Starlight’s Mother’s death also sort of makes the moment Cozy seeks counsel from Starlight with more hidden sinister background to it all. It’s partly Cozy’s fault Starlight ended up doing what she did since after manipulating Sunset into believing she’s not like her parents, she drops a rock that breaks Sunset’s horn, nerfing Sunset’s ability to do much against Cozy and her mother. Cozy gets some form of comeuppance in that she gets the ultimate bad luck in being sent through time by Sunset’s blast, but injuring Sunset’s horn allows Cozy’s mother to grab Sunset and put them in a suicidal free-fall that’ll kill them both since she doesn’t have the wing power to save herself and Sunset would have to hope she’s lucky enough with her injured horn. Resulting instead of both getting exploded after Cozy’s mother tries covering the hole of Sunset’s broken horn before they even hit the water. Though Cozy is likely sent conveniently at around Season 8’s time chronologically where she probably somewhere caught wind of the School of Friendship and started her manipulation on the CMC and of course Starlight. We’re also never given an explanation for how Cozy knew what she would do would happen in the Season 8 finale except I guess we have to assume that in canon it was something she learned from Tirek. But in the Genie Twi AU, it’s also a plan that her parents wanted to do and what Sunset aimed to stop before she retired for good. As we shouldn’t forget that removing the magic from Equestria is still a devastating move, we can debate that Starlight’s time travel is arguably worse and in some ways I’d even agree with that but nonetheless has a huge impact. And in a story where it’s states that all life is Magic too through their souls, that doesn’t just make Cozy a power-crazy psychopath but a GENOCIDAL psychopath.

Cozy’s magic sucking thing can’t actually suck in soul magic since otherwise Cozy herself would fall under her own plan most likely, but without usable magic the world would quickly become unhappy and dark magic would spread everywhere. I even made it so it’s particularly related to Starlight by implying that the wasteland we saw in the Season 5 finale was if Cozy succeeded. Obviously Cozy hadn’t been met at the time of that but given we saw the futures where Chrysalis, and Tirek won. Even if at the time Cozy didn’t exist conceptually, it was the perfect thing to apply to tie Cozy into the overall arch of the series. And while Sunset sending Cozy to the future just before Season 8 may be a little forceful in trying to tie things together it does result in the idea that time travel really messes up Starlight’s life in how it brings her unknowingly face to face with one of her mother’s murderers and how she’d end up using it in her most infamous scheme. I doubt Cozy in the Genie Twi AU knew for sure that Starlight was Sunset’s daughter but it does still sort of retroactively make any meeting between Starlight and Cozy in Season 8 more sinister and/or tragic with Cozy almost sending Starlight away with wherever all that magic was going to go in the Season 8 Finale. But if Cozy were to ever escape from being in stone and found out, she’d no doubt flaunt her role in ruining Starlight’s early life. The lengths of which psychopathic people go to torture the people who get in their way knows no bounds. Cozy’s effect on Starlight’s life implied in Secrets of Dragon’s Tear making her overall the central figure responsible for what Starlight ended up doing. Cozy and her parents confrontation with Starlight’s mother caused her death and in a fashion where no pony would know what happened thus causing the domino effect of Starlight’s fall into darkness and delaying her finding her destiny of being in a duo with Twilight.

Thus many of the events of Seasons 5-7 in the Genie Twi AU are now retroactively because of Cozy’s actions, giving her a much broader effect and really outs her as actually among the most evil the ponies have ever come across even though (Alicorn ascension aside in the final two-parter) she’s really not that strong herself compared to the likes of Chrysalis and Tirek. It’s even implied that if the trio had won, there would of likely been a situation eventually where Tirek and Chrysalis would have to team-up together to fight Cozy. In a bleak situation where any remaining ponies would likely have to side with Tirek and Chrysalis for the best shot at taking Cozy down. These revelations bubble up the anger in Starlight so much, she almost decides to kill Cozy despite having been told that killing the villains is a bad idea. As for at least a brief moment, she falls under a little more darkness just because it was Cozy’s fault she fell into darkness in the first place. Twilight and Sunset manage to prevent her from doing so, but it makes Cozy more central to Starlight’s life then Chrysalis. With the benefit of both Starlight and Cozy getting an upgrade of the overall part of the timeline then they ever had in the show.

VI. Conclusion

If I may to back a bit to the teacher/student thing with Twilight. It sort of makes it that Seasons 1 through Season 4 is the tale of Twilight’s rise to becoming the Princess of Friendship. Season 5 is this transition period where it gives some of the aftermath of Twilight’s rise while introducing Starlight who does some awful things for a seemingly weak reason but actually hid something a bit deeper. While Seasons 6 through 9 if you include the events of Secrets of the Dragon’s Tear into the timeline into Starlight’s portion of her own even if that includes a few oddities related to the show’s handling of Starlight having to return to being Twilight’s student, and nothing much of importance happening aside from becoming Principal of the School of Friendship with Starlight until after the events depicted in the show. I would say that if much of the stuff that is revealed in the story was at all canon it probably would of come up sooner then they actually did so I understand that if there’s any criticism’s of the story in trying to tie things together too much is including stuff that perhaps characters would of certainly talked about them sooner then they actually did. Though to be fair much of the subject matter is something a little too dark for the show after all again it took 7 seasons before we got to see who Applejack’s deceased parents were and even then they had to kind of skate around the fact by not saying how they died, they still did a masterful way of sort of implying they were deceased without telling us how in The Perfect Pear. I’m sure that if some of my stuff hypothetically was vetted by Hasbro execs they would outright reject the whole part of Cozy Glow role in the death of Starlight’s Mother (Whether it was or was not Sunset). But as is I feel like I did a decent job at fitting in much of the lore previously established that’s exclusive to the blog with answerig many questions that were left unanswered after the show. Starlight in particular I’m glad I was sort of able to turn into a character I previously didn’t care too much about, into a pony I could root for even if that’s kind of cheating since I wrote her myself in the new direction I had many reasons for wanting to write this story, bud I was just super surprised at just how invested I got into expanding Starlight’s part when I was steadily always having concepts thinking about when I’d eventually write in this story expecting to be mainly finally giving the Dragon’s Tear more of a purpose then just the miracle item that saves Spike and the others in Return to Saddle Arabia. I really went ambitious with this story to include as many characters as I wanted including each of the Mane 6, Starlight, and the Saddle Arabian OCs each having their own chapters that provide a direction I think they could go for after the events of the final two-parter.

Obviously Twilight and Spike still generally have the biggest portion of the story especially after the Spirit summoning gets introduced since it couldn’t happen without Spike at that current moment but Applejack also has a pretty large role in the story in that she has that heartbreaking meeting with Grand Pear at the end of Chapter 2, invites 2 of the 5 performances at the ball, somewhat debates with Twilight about the dream, bonds with Starlight over having no representation in the club of mothers meeting at the ball, and then finally having a dramatic moment to seeing her parents again and introducing her friends to them. Which then sets up a more quick way of convincing others that this spirit summoning stuff is real being she’s the element of Honesty. Twilight and Spike learning about how their paths became entwined, Starlight finding her mother who’s very identity also held the keys to her destiny, and Applejack’s lamenting the lack of her parents but eventually seeing them are perhaps the big 3 parts of the story and I’ve sort of proud of the way I sort of entwined them all together with the Spirit Summoning part which could potentially have some interesting ideas that could be explored upon with enough asks afterward. With the show over, there’s no more main source to respond to at least until G5 starts but this certainly could help not just bridge the gap till’ then but have a sort of interpretation of the events of Friendship is Magic in a unique way that I hope others enjoy. I certainly had fun writing it, and there’s enough left open to still continue on as the sprite comics return. I even went ahead on improving the Starlight sprite that I admit I sort of half-assed before, along with sprites for Sunset along with Pear Butter & Bright Mac. Jinn as well too! Thanks to anyone who read the story and/or read my thoughts out here. Seeya!

#Starlight Glimmer #My Little Pony #secrets of the dragon's tear #My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic

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