#especially early canon

[phoenixkaptain]

I feel it’s a disservice to the character to make Dick out to be younger than he actually is.

Dick Grayson is a power fantasy, same as Bruce Wayne is, but he’s a very different type of power fantasy. This is mainly because he isn’t for the same type of audience. He isn’t for adults to relate to, he’s for teens to relate to.

What do I mean? Well, I don’t think we actually get many confirmations on Dick’s age. When he joins Bruce, there are a few clues to his age, but nothing really substantive. He’s old enough to know that his parents are dead; he has an understanding of what death is. He’s young enough that while adults seem to like him, they don’t take him very seriously. He isn’t particularly tall, but when he’s shown around actual children, he is quite a bit taller than them, I’d say at least a foot, and he is portrayed as a bit taller than most of his peers (peers that aren’t superheroes! Dick is always very nearly the shortest member of Teen Titans, but that’s not fair to judge him on because superheroes are huge) He’s young enough to attend a private boy’s school for undercover, and he’s young enough that younger children seem to trust him enough to do what he tells them to.

If I had to make a guess as to how old I thought Dick Grayson was, I would say 13-15, but leaning heavily on the 15 end. His personality is pretty set for most comics you read him in (barring extremities) which implies he’s developed a good portion of it already. And, to be honest, even if Bruce and Dick first met when Dick was 13, he didn’t become Robin until he was 14. He’s portrayed as either being taken in but trained for several months (I’d give him a low estimate of six months. He needs to learn science. He may be physically fit, but that doesn’t mean that he’s mentally ready) or taking a period of time in an orphanage, being taken in, then spending several months training. Dick becoming Robin wasn’t instant. I always assume he’s 15 when I read early comics because Dick’s brand of petulance - being annoyed at something Bruce said and snapping back with verbal quips, taking Bruce’s instructions and patiently listening to them for all of, at most, an hour before running off to do the opposite, judging Bruce for going out without him - feels like a mid-teen.

So, why is Dick a power fantasy? Well, he’s the embodiment of teenage desire:

Adults listen to him.

The main one is Bruce. Bruce Wayne, who is rich and notoriously a loner and who is considered a detective on the level of Sherlock Holmes, listens to Dick and never doubts him. He takes what Dick says at face value, he talks to Dick to spitball ideas at him, he answers any question Dick asks him and he never seems particularly impatient in doing so. He tells Dick that they’re partners and equals, and he treats him as a partner and an equal.

And there are other adults. Robin is famous in early canon. Everyone knows who he is. Adults in other towns don’t listen to their own children, but they listen to Robin because they kind of have to. I assume people who bully Robin are sent Batman’s patented, ‘live bat in a box mailed to the door.’ (I assume this because it’s funny, mostly.) But no matter why they listen to Dick - they do actually actively listen to him and try to improve in the ways he suggests.

This is what every teenager dreams of. Dick Grayson, a mere teenager who probably can’t legally drive a car yet, has the respect of adults around the globe.

Robin almost always has the respect of at least one adult, that being Bruce, no matter who is actually Robin at the time. I haven’t read many Jason comics, so I can’t say for sure on him, but Bruce treats Tim as an equal. He listens to him, and while he’s protective of him, he trusts that Tim can do things alone.

The only real example of Bruce treating Robin like a child comes with Damian. And even in the cass of Damian, he still makes an effort to listen to Damian and not ignore him. Which, the reason he treats Damian differently is because Damian is a child. I don’t think Damian is even 10 when we first meet him, let alone 13. I think, later on, he’s around 11-12, but Damian just doesn’t start as old as every other Robin. It’s necessary for Bruce to treat him differently.

“Well, what about comics where the adults, including Bruce, are terrible and don’t listen to Robin at all?”

I consider these an example of we in the intellectual world call: bullshit.

I’m sorry, but nine times out of ten, Bruce listens to Dick and praises Dick and believes in Dick ten thousand percent. The Bruce who doesn’t listen to Dick just isn’t Bruce. I don’t know who this poser is, but it’s literally impossible to him to be Bruce. It’s worse than bad writing, it’s blatant mischaracterization and a lazy plot device. Bruce would die for Dick without a second thought, he loves and respects Dick more than anyone. This man cannot physically or mentally resist the urge to listen to Robin and pat his back and say “we all make mistakes, chum, don’t worry about it.”

I need to emphasize here that Dick does the complete opposite of what Bruce tells him to multiple times, and end up kidnapped or in a tight spot for his efforts, and Bruce just isn’t upset. He’s worried, but he doesn’t even fucking care. He doesn’t get mad at Dick, I feel like he can’t even look at Dick without feeling a bit happy, there’s no way- are you really trying to tell me that Bruce goddamn Wayne would blame Robin for not preventing a crime that DiCK WASN’T EVEN PRESENT DURING?? He wasn’t even fucking there, he was off getting a police officer! You know, an adult! Because there was a crazy gunman shooting up a rally, what the actual fuck is Robin, a mortal child, supposed to do against an adult gunman twice his fucking height??? What did you want him to do, Bruce, get fucking shot? Because that’s what would have fucking happened, you absolute lunatic piece of shit, you want him to goddamn die to save one fucking person-

Ahem.

For the majority of comics, Dick represents teenagers. He fulfills that desire that teenagers have, the desire to be listened to and trusted. Dick is the first person in comics to ever know that Bruce Wayne is Batman. And while timelines shift and change, Bruce and Dick’s mutual respect for each other doesn’t. They get mad at each other later on down the line, but for a good 40 years, Bruce talked to Dick more than his own fiancée.

Dick isn’t a child. He and Bruce never met when he was a child. Dick also isn’t an adult. He still has a few years that he needs to spend growing into an adult. He’s that middle ground we all faced. That awkward period where adults expect you to act like an adult but don’t treat you like one. The power fantasy inherent in the character of Robin is that adults treat him like an adult while allowing him to make mistakes and act like a child.

[starry-bi-sky]

Danyal Al Ghul's missed potential - this kid is not gonna behave like his canon self if he's with the league of assassins until his late formative years, and my reasoning why

(feel free to take this all with a grain of salt this is just my thoughts on it, this is all mostly amusing to me and isn't trying to be negative towards anyone else)

similar to how i was talking about how danny growing up in crime alley would affect him, demon twin aus with danyal al ghul make me laugh a lot (affectionate) because... whose teaching danny to unlearn all the ecofascism he picked up from the league of assassins? whose teaching him to be kind? to be gentle? Not the LoA thats for certain.

(you could plausibly say Jazz but she's only 2 years older than Danny and do you really expect a fellow child to properly explain why X is wrong to another child and have it be 100% effective? i don't doubt it'd help to an extent, but not in the same way an adult explaining it would)

plus a ton of other things, like whose teaching him to value human life? not the LoA. Whose teaching him how to adjust to living with American society after he ends up with the Fentons when he's 8-9-10? Who teaches him that killing is wrong, whose enforcing that?

(not the Fentons if you're going the neglectful parent route, and Jazz can try but i really don't think Danny is going to listen to her, a stranger who isn't even part of his grandfather's league)

How do you teach a child to value human life when the greatest development window for that opportunity has closed and he's already formed his own opinions?

You're not gonna get a Danny whose exactly like his canon attitude if he's staying with the league during his formative years (0-8 years old). you're not. You could get someone LIKE it, potentially, or someone who has traces of it or is similar -- like danny's wit and jokes and sarcasm, and on some level his kindness. but you're not gonna have a carbon copy. Development doesn't work that way. "nature" can only do so much in the face of nurture.

If anything, it doesn't even have to be a major change -- in the league he cans till be kind, but it's probably going to manifest in a different way than what is considered normal. Tough love, for one. But there's gonna be something that affects him negatively. Why make him 'always good/kind' when you can make him a brat who develops into a kinder (if spikier than in canon) person?

TLDR: Danyal Al Ghul would not be like how he is in canon if he's with the league until his late formative years -- not without any lasting pr permanent impacts from the league at least. Missed potential to make him an absolute nightmare like damian was -- especially in his early years when he first arrived to the Fenton house.

(this doesn't apply to danyal al ghul aus where he's either given to the fentons as a baby/is reincarnated/etc. this is mostly aimed for danyal al ghul aus where he fakes his death at like, 7-10 and somehow ends up, personality-wise like his completely canon self by 14 without any differences.)

(and even then if he's five or four, or even three, he would still be traumatized and influenced by the league. he'll just have more time to adjust. the sooner he leaves the league the more likely he is to be like his canon self, but not like an exact copy)

(more under the cut)

Anyways what I'm saying is that there is prime missed Danyal al Ghul potential to make him an absolute NIGHTMARE to the Fentons however way he ends up with them, just like Damian was with the Waynes! Cuz why does Damian get all the fun? Danny got the same training and endoctrine as him! He is also an ex-assassin! Why is Danny the only one who is 'well adjusted and non-violent' hm? Hmm?

Why can't he also be mean, and stabby, and a total stuck-up in some way or another? Have fun with his characterization, its prime opportunity to play play-doh and clay with him! If he starts out as X how does he get the personality traits of Y, and thus become XY?

Like take this with a grain of salt if you will, but make him arrogant. Make him an asshole! Make him a bad person at first! Because he will be! He's the blood son of the batman and you mean to tell me that damian is the only one arrogant about it at first? Make him stabby and mean even at 14 when he's begun to chill out! Have fun with it! If he's with the Fentons at any point past the age of four or five then he's gonna be a nightmare to handle because he still remembers the league and his time there.

(and while it gives him more time to chill the hell out, his time at the league is still gonna leave an impact on him.)

also what im saying as well is have him and sam potentially get along like a house on FIRE. Again, Danny grew up under the views of an ecofascist cult and nobody to challenge those views to him until he got to amity park at whatever age in late formative years he was at. He could be about as intense or even MORE intense about environmental awareness/rights than Sam is!

(also him being supremely unimpressed with Sam's wealth. he gave up a palace in the mountains for this town. because that's funny to me - like let his past have more influence on him! it'll be fun!)

you could have a danny who doesn't kill but doesn't fully understand the value of human life because jazz is like two years older than him and isn't that good at explaining why people's lives are important. he won't kill but he's not morally opposed to it. there's very little chance he actually gets bullied at school because he nearly killed Dash the first time he tried anything.

Danny could have scars, physical ones, because its implied in multiple canon that training starts at toddling (my best bet is 3 at minimum and ~maybe~ 2 but only on the later side of 2. Good fucking luck getting any infant under 2 to do anything you ask, ESPECIALLY assassin training. They're gonna stick the weapon in their mouth sooner than they're gonna do katas. This is coming from a daycare teacher.)

there's more examples of how danny being at the league during his formative years would affect him, but those are just some of them. he could have a sword! An appreciation for weaponry and nature. Maybe he still speaks all shakespearan and formal, does he still make bodily threats to people? If Damian is still threatening people at 14 why can't danny?

[canisalbus]

About the accents: if someone has a very "proper" Italian they are either foreigners or politicians/dignitaries/etc. So that fits perfectly for Machete, but I think it would be so funny if he sometimes slipped up and used a Nepalese word bc he forgot one in "proper" Italian lol

(Funny to me cause Naples has its own language in addition to accent, and most people don't actually know those words)

.

[lambmotifz]

“dean isn’t a top” well but sam is a bratty bottom and he wants to get fucked on the hood of the impala so bad it makes him look stupid and dean doesn’t know how to say “no” to his baby brother

[marsbotz]

no matter what happens, no matter how much it hurts, you don't stop dancing, and you don't stop smiling, and you give those people what they want.

[hezuart]

If Seven have water bending powers, Six soul eating powers and Mono space-time powers what would Raincoat Girl powers would be

oOOOO see, I thought about this quite a bit for the past week. I don't think Raincoat girl's powers will come up in Channel Change, so I'll share my headcanon here.

Raincoat girl I've always called "Five" though I've considered calling her "Quinn" (or even "Cinc") sometimes to not be so obviously a number, kind of like Mono's naming scheme. But I don't think the name Quinn would stick with the fandom as well as "Five" would...

To me, Five would have the ability to change her size at will. (Typically shrink, but only when she gets more powerful later she will learn how to enlarge herself.) She may also have the ability the manipulate the sizes of objects, people, or animals around her.

My evidence: 1. "VERY LITTLE Nightmares" game title 2. The Nest is more like a giant doll house, and she's surrounded by children turned into dolls 3. Each collectible has something to do with the children's powers. She collects Jack-in-the-boxes; children's toys that had been made in France as little "Demon-in-the-boxes". A tiny puppet pops out to surprise/scare the person playing its music because typically, no one would expect a creature to be compressed in something so small.

Six is a soul eater. She can suck the souls out of adults for sustenance. She can suck the youth out of children, turning them into nomes so that she may remain immortal. She may have the ability to teleport through shadows. She may or may not also have the ability to create shadow proxy children?

Mono is a space-time manipulator. He can travel through time and teleport elsewhere through TVs. He can leave behind imprints of children and also reabsorb them? He has minor to major telekinesis and draws in the attention of those around him.

Seven has hydrokinesis. He can physically manipulate water. He can create air pockets to breathe underwater. If he concentrates, he can also control the water inside someone's body including his own. This proves difficult when trying to lift others, but his body is the easiest to control, giving the illusion that he's floating on air.

Five/Quinn is a size shifter. She can shrink at will to crawl through small spaces like a mouse; to get into hidden rooms or to avoid being caught. She can also enlarge herself at will and has the ability the manipulate thse sizes of objects, people, or animals around her. But this requires heavy concentration to do so.

[un-pearable]

the secret ninjago truth is that lloyd isn’t actually an anime protagonist, kai was the traditional anime protagonist and got usurped by lloyd, a comic book protagonist

[viiinz]

autism be damned my boy can do calligraphy and knows a lot about capital punishment

[agnisleftpec]

in light of lie detector tests irl being mostly bullshit, especially so for people with anxiety, combined with fandom shoving all their mental disorders onto their faves cuz projection is fun, i propose a much more chaotic take on zuko joining the gaang wherein toph can NOT get a fuckin read on this guy and kind of wants him to just sit down and breathe for a second thanks, your heartrate is giving her a headache

[stuck-in-the-ghost-zone]

HIII THABK U FOR THE TRIVIA AND ASHE SONG before i take forever 2 answer those or forget here is a blank ticket to please please talk about prime defenders and their AWFUL emotional literacy and processing skills i would literally love to read that essay so much ive also been thinking about it incessantly. big eyes staring up at u.png. ok ok peace out GOODNIGHT !!!! <33

i lied actually im not going to bed im judt thinking about this ans listening to St. John on a loop now. hello catkiss.gif i forgot how youve filled me with so much joy. that cat is so fuckign cute

anyway. hi :) prime defenders huh. this is gonna be less of an essay and more of a sleepy ramble but ohhh i have so many thoughts. they all process things so differently and none of them are good at it they all need therapy so bad. ms.g where is the hero therapy why didnt you build that into w.a.t.c.h ma'am

vyncent is probably the best at actually processing things out of all of them, he just internalizes everything to the point where he wont talk about it unless hes pushed past the breaking point. vyncent is actually very.. emotionally intelligent? i want to say mature but that feels like im singling him out because hes the oldest. i just feel like because he grew up on Fauna and had to be in basically survival mode in a world full of monsters trying to kill you.. that makes a person grow up quicker than they should. i think vyncent had a good childhood and for the most part his parents took good care of him but just.. living in that world doesnt seem like it leaves room for a whole lot of expressing emotions. vyncent is good at quick analysis of a situation, but unless a problem directly interferes with the current goal he doesnt externalize it to everyone else. but bottling up his feelings and emotions just builds up pressure over time until something like the lich makes him blow up and let it all out at once, usually in a dramatic monologue format bc condi is really good at those god damn it. also they played off the fact that vyncent said all of that to the lich and then missed his attack as a funny thing but i like to think of it as. he got too overwhelmed w his emotions and lashed out too soon it made his fighting messy. vyncent is so angry and honestly after what hes been through he deserves to be !!!!

william wisp. my boy. god hes just like me fr so much so that it physically hurts sometimes. anyway. i always think back to the scene where theyre all in the cabin talking about themselves/sharing backstories and william keeps desperately trying not to talk about himself. the fact that hes so ashamed of his powers he hides wisp form every time. two of his powers are LITERALLY a) turning invisible and b) turning intangible, usually as an excuse to leave whatever situation hes in ("accidentally" falling through the floor at opportune moments in season 1) . theres. a thing that happens at the end of episode 13/beginning of epidode 14 that youre really close to and i wont spoil yet but god it has to do with this so extremely much please come back to my inbox when you get there. youll know what it is trust me. um. yeah. so anyway. i think a lot of this comes from a place of. he doesnt want anyone to be scared of him. williams not stupid hes incredibly smart and insightful he knows his powers are objectively SCARY. hes scared of himself constantly, he doesnt want anyone else to feel that way about him, so he shifts focus whenever those aspects of himself are brought up because if someone were to think about it for any amount of time theyd realize the truth that hes scary and dangerous to be around (<< william logic. hey remember how one of the reasons he originally left deadwood was because the monsters there were attracted to the wisps and therefore Him so he left to keep his friends/family out of danger)

i think a lot about williams death and the immediate aftermath, i dont know how much you actually know and how much of this comes later but . how does he go home after waking up from that. his parents know about his powers, so they MUST know what happened. what do you think he told them when he god home muddy and dirty and broken and probably bloody after being missing for. god knows how long. how does he look his mother in the eyes and tell her her little boy is dead. but hes also not because hes standing right in front of her. how the fuck do you think he felt the first time he went into wisp form and saw his body laying there !!! of course he wouldnt want to talk about that!!!! youre gonna have to pry william wisps emotions from his cold dead hands !!!!!!!

dakota's response to the ashe situation was to run away in the woods and do nothing but train for 10 months. he didnt think about it for 10 months. i dont even have a whole lot to say about dakota other than like. stunned silence whenever his inability to process trauma is brought up because grizzly does such an incredible job at being like "you ask dakota how hes doing and his face is just blank" << paraphrased actual quote from an episode i cannot remember which one. either 11 or 12 ?

also because im thinking about him im including ashe in this. we didnt get to see a whole lot of his canon reactions to extreme emotional situations so a lot of this is just coming from My Mind but ashe seems like hed be the type to repress a lot of his emotions too. being alone in your house/in your room for extended periods of time will do that to a guy. i think he feels a lot of things and will probably very openly cry/scream/get angry when hes alone but as soon as he knows another person is there he can immediately flip the switch to turn it all off like nothing happened. very much a deadpan "im fine." if someone asks how hes doing, even if hes got like. the remainder of tear tracks down his face. cannot physically express his emotions in the presence of someone else

[youngpettyqueen]

🔥 for a mash character of your choosing

blaming all of Margaret's flaws in the early seasons on her relationship with Frank completely strips her of agency and responsibility for her own faults, and is a disservice to her character arc. it is crucial to her character that she was just as bad- and sometimes worse- than Frank was, and makes her character arc all the more interesting and compelling

[bonefall]

Chipstone 💃 we have our chipkit

Would you all forgive me if I seriously named the background cats in Fire and Ice? I could really use them, WindClan is so fucking smalllll.

I was faffing with some timelines earlier and it becomes a serious problem, because ThunderClan never dips below 3 births a year (and could really use more years in the Crusade Era, to spead these out) but WindClan is already getting a few years with one measly birth

So I could really use Chipstone here :/

[raspberry-gloaming]

People be like "oh cartoon characters have hardly any outfits" but you know who is really out in the trenches? Characters on the CD covers of 2000s-era audio drama who exist only in their outift from tv show in the 70s with an uber strong colour overlay filter.

[sampilled]

The way dean’s character completely changes in season 8 and it’s like never acknowledged

Can you imagine s14 dean saying s2 dean’s lines?

I saw interview once with Eric kripke and he basically said something along the lines of “dean’s core is a sad child” and it really struck me.

Dean in the early seasons (while yes, violent and a Hunter and a million other things) is so gentle with other people. With Sam and with Jo especially. He has a hard shell but the soft centre is easy to see and I feel like that just gets lost in season 8

It’s like he still has dean’s personality but none of his vulnerability

It’s like a caricature of him and it’s so upsetting

[atomicsuperrobot]

Rereading again, and it's really interesting to note just how different the early art style is from the later style- and especially from the anime itself. With the manga, you can at least see where things came from; in the anime, it's a fairly radical departure that is only barely recognizable as what it's meant to be, at least in regards to Joker himself, specifically.

The early manga has lots of sharp points and angles, creating a character that, even if he behaves in largely similar ways, still feels almost entirely different from his animated counterpart. No wonder I was so put off by the anime's designs, originally- and that I had gotten the impression that he was older than he actually wound up being, or was type-cast as. Funny how I now largely prefer his anime design and personality, even if it's altogether not that different!

Fun fact, when I first started reading, before I had started watching the anime (and even for a bit after I had started), the voice I had for Joker in my head was the same as Kaito's, from Magic Kaito- which, as far as anime goes, would be from Detective Conan and Magic Kaito 1412, specifically. Even if he seemed older, at least in looks, in my head he very much still read as a bratty teenager, it would seem.

[starlooove]

Realizing the adultification and demonization of Duke and Damian is just. Not gonna stop. El oh el