#even when he’s not talking about bojack it still ends up being about bojack

[bojackandherb]

Herb: So anyway, then I was thinking— Charlotte? Charlotte, are you listening to me?

Charlotte, who had been zoning out: Huh? Yep. Continue with what you were saying about Bojack.

Herb: I wasn’t talking about Bojack. Why would you assume that? I was talking about this new idea for a TV pitch I had.

Charlotte: Okay, okay, sorry. Continue on.

Herb: So, as I was saying, I was thinking the main character could be this cute horse guy—

[genericpuff]

bit out of nowhere but LO Hades reminds me so much to Bojack Horseman idk how to explain it

Oh we've talked about this extensively in the ULO chat circles n such, especially when it comes to the most climactic scene in the show, the second interview:

The entire tone of the show showcases a very bitter reality with a lot of celebrities and people in power. There are some messed up things that happen throughout the course of the show, but they always feel like they're being used for comedy or brushed under the rug with comedy, because the show is, after all, a comedy. But I feel like that was the point, because it's not until the final season that everything that happened throughout finally catches up to Bojack, and suddenly... it's not funny anymore. There's no punchline. It really reflects just how much people in power don't see their abuse or wrongdoings as "big deals", sometimes they even see it as "just some funny thing that happened", all while the onlookers and victims of their behavior and abuse either become so acquainted with it they don't even see it as abuse anymore until they finally break away from it (Diana, Todd, Princess Caroline, etc.) OR they fight to be heard while the media tries to snuff them out. So then when the consequences finally catch up to them, there are no laughs to be heard, as much as the perpetrator in question may try their best to pass it off as "not a big deal" or believe they shouldn't be held accountable because "it happened a long time ago".

Anyone who sees Biscuits Braxby as the villain here is missing the overall point - Bojack has been responsible for literally ruining people's lives on several occasions, and has never been held accountable.

And yeah, I see a lot of that in LO as well, but the issue is the framing of the story isn't making it clear if it's actually going to have its "Come to Jesus" moment with Hades and Persephone, or if it's just gonna keep celebrating them as the heroes.

There were no consequences for Hades pulling out Alex's eye. They played the resolution out for comedy.

There were no consequences for Persephone turning Minthe into a mint plant. They played the scenario out for comedy literally by the end of the very same episode and then well into the next one.

There were no consequences for Persephone cornering Tori at his job. The entire thing was played up for comedy.

There were no consequences for Persephone raiding Leuce's home. She was rewarded with sex from Hades and it was, you guessed it, played up for comedy.

Just like with Bojack Horseman, we don't see Hades or Persephone treat these situations as seriously as they ought to. They ultimately don't care how other people feel or how they may be affected by their own actions, they only care about themselves. Just like with Bojack, we see Hades enter sexual relationships with women who are in a much weaker position than him, women who stand to lose far more than he would if the relationship went south.

(I need you all to realize that Hades is literally blackmailing her. He is trying to pay her off with a management position or some kind of severance and framing it in such a way to manipulate her into thinking it's 'better' for her that she take the deal, all for the sake of getting her out of the picture because he's with Persephone now. This is blackmail. And the narrative wants us to root for Hades here.)

Shit, I would argue Bojack is still a better character than Hades and Persephone because we 1.) see how the consequences of his actions do affect him on a deeper level (through his anxiety and self-hatred which he spends a long time wallowing in, making his situation worse, rather than seeking help for) and 2.) he actually does eventually start to seek help, but unfortunately there's only so much one person can do to fix themselves when their actions still haven't been brought to justice and their mindset hasn't truly changed; which is what we see in the final part of the show when, despite Bojack's attempts to be a better person, the Sarah-Lynn case catches up to him, and in his final moments up on that stage with Biscuits Braxby, we see his true nature come out - he thinks being an addict should absolve him from what he's done to others.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Except replace "addict" with "traumatized" as many of Persephone and Hades' actions are swept under the rug with "they went through trauma so it's fine". Despite the fact that other characters who have also been through trauma aren't given that same grace (Thanatos, Demeter, Minthe, etc.)

You could also go a step further and call out how the fans themselves will defend their actions as "but they're gods!!! gods were terrible all the time in the myths!" but isn't it funny how myth accuracy only ever comes up when it comes to defending Hades and Persephone? Meanwhile you'll never see anyone bring it up when it comes to Apollo SA'ing Persephone, or Hades having an emotional affair with Persephone, or any of the other number of things that Rachel rewrote for her 'retelling'. It's not funny haha, it's funny yikes.

I can only imagine how the fans feel seeing Hades and Persephone called out must be similar to how first-time viewers like myself felt seeing Bojack be put on the cross by Biscuits Braxby - "you're being an asshole, he's working on himself!" "leave him alone!!!" "the media is making a monster out of him!" "he's really not THAT bad!"

But he is. They are. And unlike Bojack Horseman, I unfortunately can no longer have the good faith in believing Hades and Persephone will have their comeuppance, or the people they've hurt will get their retribution. I have no hope that Persephone will see that she's the Sarah-Lynn of the relationship, a girl who was groomed into an abuser at the hands of an abuser, who had no chance of doing better because the person she fell for pulled her down to his level. I don't have any faith in Rachel whatsoever that she'll manage to end this story with any message besides "it's fine for Persephone and Hades to be who they are, because they're rich and powerful and really horny for each other!"

And Hades doesn't think he has any power over women.

[lakesparkles]

MORE MR PEANUTBUTTER!! Can you tell I like him?? The worst part is that it's all very new art, I drew all of this in... 3 days? Idk

So, this one is very self indulgent. I wanted to explore his relationships with some characters in my AU (the one he dates both Diane and Guy, it all happens after the finale of the show). One of the reasons I love creating this AU (I even just finished writing a fanfic about it!!) is so I can develop PB more.

If you want an explanation about his relationships, it'll be under the cut!

Bojack: they spend way more time together now that they live together in California - PB has two houses, so he travels there to Houston all the time. His relationship with Bojack… Is improving, just like showed in the doodles. Some people even mistake them as a old married couple, but nah, they didn't even kiss once. Maybe once. Bojack doesn't want to talk about it. One day, years later, Mr Peanutbutter will make peace with his own sexuality, look back and realize that things make way more sense now.

Guy: talking about his sexuality, Guy plays a big role on it. I created a whole backstory for him, but it's a story for another day. He's way more comfortable about being bi than PB is - who is now having a lot of questions: "what if he's wrong about it?"; "what if he's too old for that?"; "what if all media reacts very badly about it?" It's a little easier when he's not alone. Their personalities go very well together and, other than that, PB is having the time of his life having a husband now <3 Guy usually calls him "dog" and PB isn't sure if he thinks it's cute or the opposite.

Pickles: I have a lot of thoughts about Pickles tbh. Some of her scenes made me think that she seemed so lonely. Years after dating and breaking up with PB, she realized that their relationship… Was kinda messed up, yes. But she was never angry, even being happy seeing how different his life is right now. When she meets PB again and finds out that, not only he felt guilty during all the time they dated, but also *still feels that way*, she thinks it's a little funny. She has a good life now, he didn't ruin anyone like he thought he did. They end up in good terms and message each other often enough.

Diane: PB calls her his "ex ex wife"! Coming back together has been a nostalgia trip for them and this comes with a bunch of complicated feelings. What makes all different is exactly what Diane herself said in the show: "if they met as the people they are now, things would be totally different". And they surely are different now, even more after spending so many years apart. But different doesn't mean perfect, this they would never be. They still have a couple of fights out of nowhere that Guy is confused about. What changes is that it's, in fact, better. And now they have hope. And they're enjoying finding out once again why they were in love in the first place. It's such an old feeling that they were tricked into believing it's new~

[chaifootsteps]

Wanted to introduce you to a minor stolitz rewrite or I guess, interpretation? I came up with that has a blitzfizz angle if you squint, because I think you might like it.

Some time ago there was a deep and vulnerable moment which is rare from Brandon Rogers, when he was being interviewed by Anthony Padilla, he talked about being assaulted by a beating, and then getting up on stage for standup minutes after. But the audience never noticed. He said when performing for audiences it brings him a sense of fulfilment to know that during the few minutes or hours of that show he gets to forget about his pain, and the audience gets to have fun and enjoy the show and forget about theirs. Those moments of escapism were precious, and I wrote that for Blitzø, this was the extent of his affection for stolas. He’s basically an audience member, a loyal fan. This is why when stolas wants real devoted personal love, it ruins it for Blitzø because it feels like a fan who got a backstage pass once, and maybe even an autograph or handshake, but for some reason thinks this makes them real friends/lovers. And he keeps coming backstage without a pass, and doesn’t understand why security stops him, he even shows up to his house after the show ends. With no idea what he’s done wrong when cops turn up (this type of thing happens all the time to lonely people with mental illness, and is the type of moral complexity I think would suit stolas, someone who is dangerous but still sympathetic) And blitzo feels so much guilt and pity at this lonely, socially inept person, and not to mention feels the flattery of having a fan for once, he finds it hard to get really mean about it. But when stolas gets angry he feels genuine fear and does whatever he can to appease him. Which terrifyingly, is interpreted as reciprocation.

For “One Night Only” like his circus poster in his office suggests, they both got to escape and pretend-to be this powerful, seductive sexual being bringing amazement to a Prince who in turn, gets to pretend his true love has arrived to save him. But just like the circus episode, stolas got too obsessive with a parasocial attachment. He wanted to take Blitzø home, to keep him in his bedroom, to take out and play with whenever he needed. Forever. For Blitzø it was like encore after encore, a show that doesn’t end. And he just wants to go home to his partner, the other kid waiting for him at the circus to play horsies again, and the only other imp in the world who truly understands how it feels to be used as a toy (hell, he was turned into one!!)

And I think like the sex toys running out (if I can try to turn even that into a metaphor) he has exhausted all of his tricks and doesn’t have any more material for stolas. But the show must go on, he thinks, that is until stolas finally sees the cracks in him, and against his own wishes for this to be his soulmate, his attraction to Blitzø starts to die. Because it was artificial from the start. And he doesn’t like the real person as much as he thought. They’re just deeply incompatible. Which breaks both of their hearts, for very different reasons.

When stolas asks him why he ever gave him a night at all or showed kindness to him, someone who now has nobody, Blitzø says nothing and just calmly looks at the photo of stolas smiling holding Octavia, then looks back to stolas. As if silently telling him he knows he’s not a complete monster, that it’s not all over, he is capable of finding real connections with others, he has his daughter. His real ‘hero’ and light in the dark. And knowing how much this relationship has hurt and traumatised Octavia, its the nail in the coffin. There is hope for stolas, but not for this relationship.

In the end he gives him back the book, thanks him for their time together, and for loving him, even when stolas is protesting (kinda like Diane to Bojack) his final action to him is a bow, his last words to stolas before leaving his life forever are “You will be okay”

Goddamn, Anon...you owe me a box of kleenex for this one.

Thank you for this. It's gorgeous and perfect and I wish with all my heart that it were canon.

[myreygn]

you know this bojack horseman scene that's like "wouldn't it be funny if this night was the last time we ever spoke to each other" and how people love to use it for soukoku right before dazai leaves the mafia? and there's this interpretation of it that chuuya thinks dazai is going to kill himself and that's what the angst in this scenario stems from?

now i have not read the bsd manga so idk if there's a scene like that (i just heard something about dazai blowing up chuuya's car...?) but i'd actually love something like this, where dazai drops these hints and makes chuuya think he's gonna commit suicide for real when in actuality he's talking about leaving the mafia because honestly i think that'd make it worse.

imagine chuuya comes to the conclusion that dazai is gonna kill himself that same night because why else would this be their last conversation ever? and of course it's painful and he's plagued by doubt and regret; "is this my fault? i always knew you didn't want to be alive but couldn't i have changed your mind? am i not good enough to keep you happy and alive?" but honestly, isn't it more a question of when than if with dazai anyway from an outside perspective? couldn't he come to terms with it because at the end of the day, it's death who's taking dazai away and there's no shame in losing to death, right? everybody does eventually, there's nothing he could've done to prevent this.

and then that's not what happens. no, dazai just leaves. it's not death who takes dazai away, it's this other organization. it's just someone else. death, death chuuya can understand, if dazai feels like he has no choice then who is chuuya to tell him he does? but no, dazai has a choice and dazai is making that choice and the choice is someone fucking else. and chuuya doesn't understand. "i left my life behind for you, i went with you because i thought we could be something, a family maybe, maybe even more than that, and it wasn't always easy but you made it possible, i came for you and i stayed for you and now you walk away and i'm left behind with the realization that nothing changed. that you're still everything to me when i will always be one golden opportunity away from being nothing to you. i wasn't good enough to keep you happy - but they are? what did they ever do for you? what did they ever sacrifice for you, what did they ever give to you? no one offered their life up to you like i did, no one bared their soul to you like i did, no one will ever give you the power that i can give you. and that's what i'm clinging to when i let you use me as your tool despite hating you more than anything, clinging to the thought that you need me, that you can't win without me while you push me around like a pawn. that is all i will ever be, forever a pawn in your game. because at the end of the day, i'm nothing but a tool to you. and you, you're still everything to me."

[todomemolesta18]

I think people are overreacting when stella in circus episode just revealed tormenting stolas just because she want to or she enjoyed it. The episode itself it's bad they try to make stolas is always innocent but that's just come off make him more annoying than it has to be. The scene he supposedly stand up just seem he whining marry to stella and blame all that problem on her

Stella character is never treated with respect not from the show and not from the fandom. If the fandom actually can give much more proper backstory for stella why she end up being abuser do i have to explain in more further of how she wasn't even a character at all from the show. Also why is people react differently when loona being abusive they don't said anything but when stella did you talk how she is irredemable

I missed the days when the show felt complex and mature by having Stolas doing a big mistake by cheating on Stella and hurting Octavia... *sigh*

When I watched The Circus ep when it came out, my reaction was "whatever". I didnt care about Stolas and the abuse he had because Stella was so freakin cartoonisly evil. Another thing that bothers me is people acting like Stella screaming at Stolas because he cheated on her in their own bed it was a sign that she is abusive.

Bro... Even before we knew about her abuse... Like, I still tough it was a normal reaction! Stolas cheated on her on their OWN BED! And then after he has no shame!

Also, the double standard, yes. When Stella does it, she is a bitch, but when is Loona "aw, she had a sad backstory and has trauma QwQ" oh, so, if Stella had a sad uwu backstory too then you would excuse her abuse too?

I wanna clarify something here. Right now. Im not a fan of Stella. She is unidimensional, and an evil person because. The depth she could have was taken so Stolas was excused from his actions. Is not right what she is doing, but at the same time, is freakin hard to care for Stolas when the whole situation is so cartonish.

LOOK, if they wanted her to make an abusive wife, PERFECT. I do think is important to show that woman can be abusive too! But first:

-The show didnt hint at all. Her screaming and being angry doesnt mean she is abusive. In that moment it made sense that she was, I would be too. Hiring and assasing isnt abusive eather, or is a clue that she is. Ms Macberry did it in the first ep FOR THE SAME REASONS and fans LOVE HER. Stolas did the same thing, but they defend him because the show wobified him. Neglecting dad? Arranged marriage? Abusive wife? The man he loves doesnt love him back? He has depresion? Oh god...

-As I said, they did it so Stolas was completely innocent. Thats why lines like "i would be sorry if i hurt you, but we both know I didnt do that" or "cheating implies there was a betrayal; this woman never gave two shits about me" makes me so freakin annoyed. Because is where is more obvious why they did the abusive stuff. Not to add complexity or to send a message, no, just to excuse Stolas.

Aha, sure she didnt care; thats why she was angry and screaming at you, and trowing stuff, and calling you a cheater, and also hired an assasing because you cheated; NOOOO SHE DIDNT CARE, OFC NOT.

-Stella is a caricature of an abusive person.

In a different show, in a more mature one, like Bojack horseman or Tear along the dotted line, they would accept that the character is flawed. But here, is so... extreme. In the sense that Stolas has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG.

And the Stolitz stuff? I will talk about that in my next post.

Sorry if this was long, thanks for the ask, anon.

[mandareeboo]

Unfinished Work #60: "Untitled" (Finished)

I never felt up to publishing this, but I've been rewatching BoJack and felt it'd be good to put here! A little goodbye to an old friend between Hollyhock and Diane.

Title: N/A

Summary: N/A

"Sorry about this," the horse said. "You're probably really busy with writer things."

"You wanna know what I was going to do before coming out on the porch to have a smoke and chat with you?" Diane asked dryly. "I was about ten seconds away from telling my husband I was going out onto the porch to have a smoke. It's not even half the inconvenience you think it is."

"Oh," she responded, and fell silent.

Diane let out a gust of lung cancer in a long, drawn-out sigh. Texas is pretty in postcards but hotter than the sun in person, with the added bonus of all sorts of creepy crawlies straight out of the official nightmare catalogue, but it's kind of nice? There's trees everywhere. Lots of open, bumpy land. The spider currently weaving its web a few feet from her isn't even venomous- it's an orb weaver of some sort. All in all, better than death.

It'd be nicer if her company talked, though.

"Let me guess," Diane prompted, making her jump. "You're Hollyhock, right?"

"Bojack told you about me?" Hollyhock asked, ignoring her question.

"He told all his friends about you. He was really excited to have family he didn't loathe with all his being."

"Oh," she repeated, softer this time.

"Relax, you're not gonna end up on his wiki page or anything. And, for what it's worth, I'm really happy to meet you in person. You're shorter than I thought you'd be."

Hollyhock looked at her hands, where her phone was situated, then back at Diane. "Bojack's told me about you, too. He talked a lot about a lot of things, but you especially."

"And that made you think I had answers?"

She shrugged helplessly.

Diane took another drag. "You want the truth? He's an asshole. Whatever you feel or suspect about him is absolutely vindicated."

"Yeah." she said. "But I miss him anyway. Isn't that... awful?"

"No? I don't think it is. I mean, the part that sucks about people is that they're more than just one thing. Sure, Bojack is a sleezy, emotionally-abusive jerk who's slept with almost every woman he's ever met, but he also sends stupid little text messages about stuff he saw on his drive home, and one time when he got drunk he sang the lollipop song and it was actually the prettiest thing ever, and he helps you pack even though he complains the whole time. He's all that shit."

"He once threw his mom's doll out a window."

"I know. He told me."

"He did?"

"He's always drunk-dialed me. Fifteen years now, and I'm his drunk-dial SOS." Diane considered her cigarette a moment. It was her first one of the day. A new record low. "I never met her, but I spoke to Beatrice twice- for his book."

"Oh, yeah, that thing. I never read it?"

"It sold alright, but it wasn't the next great American novel. Anyway, I called the retirement home to get a statement- got the phone number off of Bojack's long-time manager and friend Princess Carolyn- and called. This was before the dementia really ate up her brain- think, I dunno, almost nine years before you knew her- and she was still pretty sharp. I said, 'hi, this is Diane Nyguyen, I'm ghost-writing a novel about your son, Bojack' and she said, 'what, is he too lazy to write it himself'?"

Hollyhock winced. "Woof."

"Oh, I'm just getting started." Diane flicked some ash away. "We went in circles a bit, but eventually I laid it out for her. 'Mrs. Horseman', I said, 'I'm writing about your son's life, and as such I have called to see if you had any note-worthy stories or quotes you'd like to add'. She was pretty quiet for a minute. Then she said, 'sure, why not, I'm dying anyway. Might as well debase myself even more.' She told me all about her husband, Butterscotch-"

"Bojack never said much about him."

"There wasn't much to say, honestly. Bojack took after him and he always hated himself for it. Beatrice despised her husband for being unfaithful, bitter, and sexist. And she told me, 'now, put this in your little book, girl, and put it word-for-word. Bojack took after him, but he had the sense to be a bit quieter about it; which is a bit like saying the hissing roach is less disturbing to the eyes than the American one because it eats leaves instead of garbage. They're both insects, and they're both a waste of the paper their books were written on'." She paused. "Gotta say, she was damn eloquent."

Hollyhock winced again. "Double woof."

"It's the one story I never put into One Trick Pony. Not because I thought she'd regret saying it, or because it wouldn't fit the tone of the book, but because I knew it'd rip Bojack apart. Even back then, I was putting him above my own job. He has a way of worming into things like that." Diane stamped out the rest of the smoke, then pulled out another one. "I used to smoke like a freight train, but now it's only when I get worked up. Sorry about the second-hand."

Hollyhock was quiet again, but this time it was more pensive than anything else. "I... wrote him a letter. I actually don't even know if he read it, because he kept sending me voicemails telling me he would, but he never told me he did before I changed my number. I thought it'd be over. I thought I was moving on, but..."

"Moving on isn't the same as moving away," Diane said. "Trust me. I've packed houses before. But even now, I still find myself looking for him in the news, or thinking back to the good times we had."

"Mhmm. He tried to learn sports for me, you know? Because he wanted to cheer me on. And that still means a lot to me. But then I remember that interview, and I just... I just can't do it. I can't talk to someone who's done stuff like that."

"That's completely in your right! I know you're a grown-up, but you're still pretty young, you know? Bojack's in his fifties. His problems shouldn't be on anyone, but they especially shouldn't be on you."

"You won't tell him I came, will you? I know you're friends, but..."

"I think your definition of friendship is a bit different from us, kiddo. I mean, we haven't spoken in almost a year now. I just go see his movies, and he sends me long rambling reviews about my books, and we follow each other on social media."

"That feels like friendship," she concurred. "Mrs. Nyguyen?"

"God, don't. Diane."

"Diane. Did you and Bojack….?"

"Nope. But not because he didn't want to. I was dating when we first met, and married a good chunk of the time I lived in L.A. Now I'm married again. If I hadn't been... well, he would've tried, if nothing else."

"And you?"

She pursed her lips. "There was a time where I lived in his house and spent every day getting shitfaced drunk, and nothing skeevy happened. He'd come home, I'd be drunk and when was Bojack not drunk? We'd drink more and we'd watch reruns of Horsin' Around. I liked that. It wasn't healthy, but I liked it. And I liked him. I try not to think too hard about it, but... I dunno, honestly."

Hollyhock pulled her knees to her chest. "I came here hoping to find a way to stop missing him. Now I just miss him even more? I hate emotions."

Diane smiled. It was bittersweet. "Now you sound like a true Horseman."

[beevean]

Some other thoughts, because I cannot and will not shut up.

This is Hector and Isaac's very second scene in the show. Hector ends up staring at Dracula's fireplace: he reminisces of his abusive parents, and how he set his house on fire with them inside. This immediately tells us, along with Dracula's speeches, what kind of person Hector is: despite his apparent softness that we'll see later on, he can be ruthless enough to kill, or at the very least punish, those who have wronged him.

Much later, Hector has been brought to the lowest point of his life. He's listening as the woman he has given his heart to is gleefully humiliating him in front of her sisters, describing in detail how he's going to be treated as a tool, as a dildo, as a pet, and only because he trusted the wrong person. Multiple times, in fact. He has been hurt by one too many people.

And by the time Hector's fate is sealed, the fireplace acts as the framing.

Basic cinematic symbolism indicates that Hector's backstory would be become relevant in the next season. As a child, he killed his abusers. And now he's in the clutches of two other people who abused his trust and good nature and stripped him of all freedom and dignity.

So, was Hector meant to set the entire castle on fire, and kill Carmilla and Lenore for what they did to him? And then it was changed to make the season artificially happier? Would it have been the narratively more sensible course of action?

Well, not necessarily. As fun as it is to imagine Hector taking revenge on those two pieces of shit, subversion of expectations can still be done well. And, to be fair, while Hector did kill his parents and is certainly not above murder in general, he seems to not be inherently violent in nature, even against someone who hurt him:

Carmilla has lied to him, insulted him, and coerced him into indirectly killing his master. He still speaks to her very candidly.

From what was shown until S3, Hector needs to be pushed to his absolute limit before he starts considering violence, but once he does, he has no mercy. The most obvious proof is his disastrous attempt to threaten Lenore:

Yeah, as ill thought as this was, I don't blame him for being this desperate, after the torture he was recently put through. From a certain perspective, it would have been nice to see a recreation of this scene, but with a Hector acting smarter, having learned from his mistakes.

However, to be honest, I don't think that seeing such a gentle character being brought to horrific violence would have been cathartic. It would have been tragic. It would have been actually a bad thing, a reason to be scared and to pity him. And it still wouldn't have addressed his utter apathy when it comes to keeping humans in a cage: hell, that act would have made him as bad as Isaac in S3.

With that being said, I will never, ever, accept how he was written after that scene.

I'm going to use an excellently written show to talk about the difference between taking the high road, and forgiveness.

Our good horseman here has been abused since infancy by his utter monster of a mother, who delighted in making him feel guilty for daring to be alive. Long story short, she is now old, weak, and senile to the point where she can't recognize him anymore. Bojack is planning to finally vent all of his anger for all she did to him, as soon as she's lucid enough - and who could blame him? By this point, no one would shed a tear for a woman who did her very best to ruin her son's life. Hell, some might have cheered when he more or less bullied her by "killing" her doll. No mercy for an abuser, right?

However, in a brilliant display of foreshadowing, the audience is made to suspect that Bojack won't actually get to tell his mother off. He already wasted the seasonal F-bomb here! And there are no freebies. So what's going to happen? Will Bojack simply be prevented from finally facing the woman who ruined his life, deprived by outside circumstances of the catharsis he needs?

No. He does it himself.

Right when he has Beatrice where he wants, in a terrible retirement home and finally lucid enough to recognize her son... right after she has committed her last unforgivable act and secretly poisoned Hollyhock with appetite suppressants until she overdosed... Bojack chooses to not hurt her.

He could have. She would have listened to him. The viewers would have understood. But instead, the last moment Bojack could talk with his mother is used to soothe her confusion and fear, and give her a comforting vision where she can feel loved and like everything is alright.

Bojack is not one to do selfless acts without getting anything in return, and he doesn't know anything about her terrible past that we viewers have witnessed through the episode that explain why she was so bitter towards her son: so this act of pity towards the person he hates the most in his life speaks wonders of his character and growth.

But he did not forgive her. The entirety of Free Churro is dedicated to Bojack's painful eulogy of Beatrice, where he makes clear that he still resents her, and the only reason he's sorry for her death is that now he knows that he has lost the chance to have a good relationship with the one who was supposed to care about him.

Beatrice was shown wanting to reconnect with Bojack, almost as an apology. But even if her personality didn't got in the way of a proper reconcilement, nothing she could have done would have made up for the pain she caused Bojack, and he's right in still remembering her as a cruel person. But still, we remember that one moment of kindness he gave her as one of the most powerful scenes in a powerful story, for the build-up and for the significance it has for both characters.

Bojack Horseman did a wonderful job in exploring the complicated feelings that arise from being a victim of abuse. It's not just hatred and desire for revenge: there is a deeper connection, and care despite everything, and regret, and longing, and wishful thinking, and all sorts of uncomfortable feelings that are hard to explain to someone on the outside.

Needless to say that Netflixvania only wishes it could have reached the heights of Bojack Horseman, and Hector is not conflicted about Lenore. He's not anything. He shows no tension when he talks with her as if they were friends (it's the very first scene we see with them after Hector cried over being made a slave in S3); he shows no resentment when he talks about the ring that she forced on him to make him a useful tool, as he was a mere "problem to be solved"; his one attempt to address what Lenore did to him is brushed off as a sick joke that he takes in stride; he shows no confusion in his attempts to reconcile the Lenore who talks to him like someone worthy of respect with the Lenore who sadistically took advantage of his vulnerability to trap him. And needless to say, Lenore doesn't exactly get a good justification as to why she thought to resort to rape by deception to get her way, leaving fans to scramble to find one that still leaves her sympathetic enough.

It's only when Isaac storms the castle that Hector finally shows the slightest twinge of resignation when he cages Lenore to allow him to do his thing, but also to protect the woman who apparently protected him as well. Only now there is emotion in his voice, care and regret at the same time. Once more, much like Alucard killing Dracula, it's a big emotional payoff to nothing - worse than nothing, even.

Hector leaving Lenore alive, even protecting her from Isaac, could have been him taking the high road. Instead of going on a rampage like subtly implied by the framing, he could have shown her pity, for understanding that for all her cruelty and manipulation, she too was just a pawn in Carmilla's insane scheme (admittedly the parallel intended by the narrative, but not addressed enough). It would have fit with the general idea that revenge is for children (the development that was given to Isaac), and perhaps, in a way, we can consider it the fitting punishment for Lenore: being precisely being forced to live and see what exactly she has become. If written well, the subversion of the revenge ending could have been brilliant, and poignant.

But there's nothing there, except some shallow banter wasted on Carmilla and dick jokes and some flat voice acting. There is no inner turmoil. Hector just likes Lenore for no proper reason, which, if we pretend the writing was not a rushed mess, implies that he forgave her off screen and now everything is all peachy between them. As if what Lenore did was that easy to forgive. And if it was that easy, regardless of whether it was forgivable or not, then why should I be impressed?

It doesn't speak of Hector's supposed good nature. It's not an admirable act of strength. The choice to let go was not pondered, because it was apparently never a choice. We are eventually left with a nothing narrative, one that doesn't address the events of the previous season except in the form of a joke, one that doesn't allow the characters to grow but rather to regress (because remember, Hector's big badass moment of trapping Lenore and cutting his finger is in the context of him wanting to bring back Dracula and letting himself be killed by Isaac), one that doesn't explore the complicated relationship between a kind mistress and her well-treated pet that was deceived into imprisonment, and one that offers no catharsis whatsoever when it comes to the end, where Lenore kills herself out of nowhere and Hector lets her go after at most one second of hesitation (I have my idea on how that scene should have went - oh look, another comparison with BH :P). And we're left with accidental but vile apologism, instead of the nuanced tale about abuse that we could have had. It would have been so easy, even with the time restraints.

And it wasn't even intentional. It's just sloppy writing hailed as something deeper than it actually is.

(I keep reading in the comment people who gush about Hector showing compassion to Lenore, instead of comparing Carmilla lying to her to Lenore lying to him. I get the parallel and I get the superficial sweetness. This story should not have happened after petty rape by deception: remove that, and all the bonding suddenly makes sense. I want to fix it so badly.)

[dead-dove-yandere]

Hello, Dovey!! Sorry I've been gone.

As per usual, I've got an interesting little ask, how would each of your yanderes react to the death of their darling?

You can choose how the darling perishes, but I just think it'd be very interesting!

~ 💌

Hello!! It’s good to hear from you again!

It’s safe to say, all of them would be absolutely devastated - their darlings are pretty much their whole world after all and it’ll be extremely difficult for any of them to transition from obsession to a life without their darling so suddenly.

The first thing Laura is going to do upon hearing about the death of her adored idol is sob her eyes out inconsolably. Like, she’d probably full on collapse onto the floor wet cat style and just sob for a good hour or so. The second thing she’d do would be to immediately run to her computer and edit a tribute video for her darling while clinging to a plushie and binge eating sweets and pastries for comfort. She’d not take the news well at all and it would probably take her years to stop mourning, and she’d probably get very angry when other fans of her darling “abandon” them by moving on from the grief.

Cayce is going to find a way to blame herself, even if she had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. To her, it’s all somehow her fault and proof that she’s a fuck up and a delinquent and always will be. Her darling was her only chance of somehow improving her education and life and she wasted it all by being cruel. She wouldn’t be willing to cry because she’d see it as weak, so she’d probably get even angrier and more violent and take out her grief on everyone else.

Marie is another comfort eater, but instead of sweets she’s more likely to get the cold leftovers out of the fridge without bothering to microwave them. If her husband is still alive, then she’ll lament how she has to deal with the grief by herself and how her husband won’t comfort her, and if it’s after she’s killed him then she’ll lament that she’s completely on her own now. She’ll insist on not only attending the funeral but helping to arrange it.

Theophania would most likely go mad. If her darling died in battle, she’d blame herself and if they died by some other means then she’d be unable to comprehend why God would do this to her if monarchs are supposed to have God’s favour. She’d be bloodthirsty to execute anyone who might be responsible even if they were barely involved or it wasn’t her fault, and would probably delight in joining the executioner in the dungeon to watch and direct the torture inflicted on whatever scapegoat she’d managed to blame.

Smiley is going to crawl into a dark corner of their dark house and sulk. They likely wouldn’t move, talk or eat for a long time and would only move when they absolutely had to. They slowly get back to normal - or at least, as close to normal as Smiley can get - and get on with their work and life, but they’d never be the same. They’d definitely be a lot less optimistic. I think Smiley would be the most likely to eventually move on and find someone new to love, but when they do, they’d be watching their new darling even more closely to make sure that they’re okay. They won’t let their heart break again.

Chase is the most likely to have a hand in his darling’s death. While it’s possible that he’d get too angry in an argument and end up lashing out a bit too roughly, I also think it’s likely that he might encourage some bad or dangerous habits in his darling that would put them at risk. If you’ve seen Bojack Horseman and the scene where Sarah Lynn dies, then I can imagine Chase being in a similar situation with his darling. Chase is another one to not cry but instead of anger he represses through even more intense hedonism and end up going on a bender. He might even disappear, only to turn up after he gets caught doing something he shouldn’t - maybe he’s in a casino, or a brothel, or maybe even he was caught burying a body.

Dr. Hart is going to deny that his darling is dead. He’s a good doctor after all and he knew what he was doing - there was no way his darling could die under his care. While he’s less likely to kill his darling than Chase, it’s not impossible that he one day makes a mistake and gives his darling the wrong dose. If Dr. Hart’s darling died, he’d keep the corpse in his home, whether he had to dig it up or steal it from the morgue and he’d start experimenting on it, trying to find a way to “cure” death and bring his darling back to life, all while trying everything to prevent the inevitable decay that occurs.

Noah’s going to be another one to crawl into his home and become a recluse. He’ll have the videos he took of his darling playing on repeat as he tries to remember that parts of his darling that can’t be captured on camera, only to be horrified when he can’t because he was so busy trying to immortalise his darling on video rather than making real memories.

Jennifer is going to be disappointed and angry that she wasn’t the one to kill her slasher darling, but then sadness would set in as she realised she liked her darling a lot more than just wanting revenge. She begins to realise that she’ll never experience a lot of things with her darling again, and that she has to try to be normal again. No one really understands her the way her darling did and she’ll never feel quite as alive again. If her darling wears a mask and she can keep it she will. Of course, though, the villain in a slasher movie is never really dead…

Professor Moore is going to become withdrawn. He’s more likely to snap at his students and is less willing to help them in the way they need. He finds teaching a lot less rewarding now his daring isn’t there and never will be anymore. He can’t quite fathom how the school can go on without his darling, much less how he’ll go on, but the glasses of whiskey he throws back while marking papers at least dull the edge a little.

[danganronpa96]

How would the dead react to certain cases after their death? For an example of what I mean. How would Peter react to Brian trying to kill himself but accidentally killing Fluttershy in the processes? Would his anger at Brian take center stage or would the heartbreak of knowing that his best friend is about to die take center stage? Would he interfere with the execution in someway or would he be too heartbroken to even do anything?

I don't know if you mean if they were still alive or as ghosts, because I'm not sure if they could interfere with executions as ghosts, but I'm going to assume it's a theoretical "this is what they would've wanted to do watching the case as a being not quite there" (lol).

As for your first example, I think Peter's friendship for Brian would overtake any judgement of his 'bad' actions. I don't think Peter ever canonically knew about Brian's depressive struggles, but it would upset him a lot to know his best pal felt so dire about his own life. Brian did a lot for him and seeing him about to be executed really made him reflect on how grateful he really was, and how much he didn't want to see him die. Yes I just wrote something semi-heartwarming about Peter Griffin but it's on par with early season Family Guy.

As for some other cases, I'll talk about the most significant ones to certain characters.

Dedede -> (DR69) case 2: Now this is right after his death for his own case, but I'd like to think he'd have mixed feelings at first for The Conductor being the prime suspect for the first part of the trial. He knew he wasn't his killer, so it did peeve him how he was being wrongfully accused. After hearing that Ashley would've killed either bird in the end, Dedede was pretty shocked that The Conductor could've died in his place if he wasn't so busy at the time. He harbors some salt for sure, but it's not like he ever wanted the other to die, so, he's happy he survived in the end.

Walter -> (DR96) case 4: "Jesse don't get drunk and kill the horse Jesse". Walter wouldn't exactly approve of Jesse and Bojack's friendship, seeing how terrible of an influence he was on him. He found what Jesse did (bottle smash) reckless and stupid, but the way he handled the 'clean-up' (blackout and escape), well, he had to admit it was very Jesse of him to use his quick-wits in the agency of the situation. He was glad Jesse wasn't the true killer in the end, and relieved that he and Bojack talked it out in the trial as maturely as he's ever seen them (yes he's happy that one person he spilled about their 'ventures' is dead there can be no witnesses).

Hiroshi -> (DR96) case 2: I think Hiroshi would feel a bit guilty in terms of Kaidou's actions. His own murder had a negative effect on Kaidou going forth, and he believes that's what pushed him into trying to become the leader of the group and shouldering so much responsibility. Hiroshi did like Kaidou, despite his strange nature, so it was hard to watch him get executed.

Retsuko -> (DR96) case 4: While Walter was more focused on Jesse, Retsuko was more concerned with Bojack. She didn't realise how much her words had an influence on Bojack to try and reconcile his and Jesse's friendship after their squabbles after the first trial. She's happy Bojack didn't go 'lone wolf' after her own death, but clearly his relationship with Jesse was rocky often, and it was good to her that he opened up about it despite how he'd usually push his problems aside. She did find it a bit scummy how he'd played dead because it really affected Jesse, but was glad they could make up before his execution.

Yuri & Ena-> (DR96 case 3): This is a two for one special. Yuri hoped Natsuki would come out of the trial alive no matter what. Despite everything, she was distraught to see Natsuki in distress halfway through the trial. Ena got all emotional and sobby when Natsuki confessed her murder in tears, because seeing their new bestie all upset is no good!! no good at all!! Both are content to know she lived past it.

[deeply-unserious-fellow]

I think part of why most people I've talked to like Hazbin Hotel better then Helluva Boss, and why most of the writing problems in Helluva aren't as present in Hazbin, are because Hazbin is an ensemble show that treats all it's characters as EQUALLY IMPORTANT, while Helluva Boss is an ensemble show that just. Really wants to be the Blitzø and Stolas show.

Like oh my god that show wants to be about only Blitzø and Stolas so bad. It's why Moxxie gets more focus then Millie(he's closer to Blitzø), it's why the Stolitz drama gets dragged out the way it does, it's why Fizz has been getting more attention then the rest of the supposed main cast lately. Viv and Brandon(who doesn't get brought up very often when discussing the writing in Helluva Boss despite being the main cowriter?) CLEARLY just wanna focus on Blitzø and Stolas' backstories and relationship, despite marketing Helluva as an ensemble show. Moxxie gets some time as an individual, but I think that's more of a biproduct of him being around for longer then the other side characters tbh. Like they were initially concieved FOR Hazbin, and I'm not really sure where production went from there, but I believe they were originally just supposed to be an assassin duo that showed up in Hazbin a couple times? Idk details are fuzzy so if anybody knows more and feels like sharing feel free to rb/comment with your knowledge. Anyways Moxxie has more depth because he's been in development for longer, and as season 2 progresses it really feels like they're running out of shit to talk about with him. Everybody else is secondary to those two, which would be FINE if the show was PRESENTED as being about Stolitz, but it's kinda. Not. The show, especially if your going off of the pilot, is presented more like "the Office but in Hell". That is the concept most people are drawn in by. So when the people who signed up for a funny ensemble show in Hell start watching and end up with just a bunch of relationship drama and some occasional focus on like 1 or 2 other characters, they get confused and put off. It's like trying to watch the Office but getting Bojack Horseman(I think. I don't know much abt BJH-) instead.

Meanwhile Hazbin is advertised as an ensemble show and, so far, has fulfilled that promise. All 4 of the episodes we've gotten so far have focused on different characters and, between them, given an equal amount of focus to everyone except maybe Niffty. Episode 1 had Charlie and Vaggie leading the subplots, episode 2 had weirdly Vox and Sir Pentious as the focuses?, episode 3 was about. Pretty much everyone really but Velvette, Carmilla and Vaggie got especially highlighted because of their songs, and episode 4 was focused entirely on Angel and his relationships with the rest of the cast. Like. That's how ensemble shows are supposed to work. And while Charlie is still the main focus of the show, and I'm sure we'll see her get highlighted a whole lot more in coming episodes, Hazbin is still at it's core about EVERYBODY. Even characters that aren't even close to mains are getting attention! And aside from some uh. Very obvious pacing issues, the show handles the ensemble cast surprisingly well! And like, I think the main complaint I've seen(that isn't a straight up controversy) is that the Hotel isn't the main focus of the show? Which like. To be fair we're only like four episodes in? And also fits into my false advertising argument about Helluva but honestly this post is getting long and my brain is kinda melting and it's almost 2am and I have school tomorrow so I'm gonna cut this off here.

In conclusion Hazbin Hotel is generally more well liked than Helluva Boss because it's a true ensemble show, while Helluva is actually the Blitzø show PRETENDING to be an ensemble show. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk :)

[damn-it-a-hogwarts-legacy-blog]

Some questions for your HC

do you think Ominis would remarry if Isabel died, and vice versa? If Isabel is cursed the same curse as Anne, do you think Ominis would be like Sebastian when finding a cure? If we follow the same timeline as HP, then Marvolo would have Merope and Morfin, so do you think Ominis would have any involvement with that entire mess? If so, where does Isabel and their children fall into that situation? Tysm 😃

OOH, so many questions, thank you!

1: oh noooo this is so sad 😭 well they’re both super super old and still alive together bc I say so lmao but hmm, I think Isabel might remarry? No idea who she would marry, tho. I kinda don’t feel like thinking about it, I’ve never been the type who could write my faves going through that level of angst lol. I can’t see Ominis recovering from that tho. He’s not quite as resilient as Isabel.

2: this is a super interesting question! A part of me thinks Ominis would be like Sebastian, tbh. Like, it’s one thing to be on the other side fearing for the wellbeing of your friends, but quite another to actually be in Sebastian’s place. I could see Ominis’ spiral being more gradual, idk if it would end quite like Sebastian, but I kinda love the idea of an alternate timeline in which Ominis goes down that path for the love of his life. It would take way more to scare Isabel and Sebastian than it would Anne, Solomon and Ominis, so Ominis could go unchecked much longer than Sebby lol. Perhaps if the Gaunts cursed Isabel, Ominis would be the one to exterminate all of them except Marvolo and whoever his spouse was for whatever reason… DAMN that would be an excellent story, I’ve been looking for an excuse to write Dark!Ominis, that would be super fun. Ok I’m adding it to my drafts after I finish answering this lmao. No guarantees when it will be done, but it will be there for me to chip away at. Thank you, anon, for your inspiration >:)

3: in my HCs, Ominis has totally cut off his family, having zero contact except for the times when the Gaunts find him and Isabel. I like to think Ominis doesn’t even know Merope and Morfin exist until that whole mess is reported in the papers in the 1920s. There is one small exception, tho, in that when his and Isabel’s kids are old enough to go to Hogwarts, Isabel takes her kids aside and says “if you ever come across anyone with the last name of Gaunt, kick their asses for mommy—just don’t tell your father” 😂

That’s something I started writing a few months ago, actually—I ended up scrapping it because it went nowhere and just rambled, but I like to imagine Ominis had thus far been living a peaceful, happy life with his new family and not being too bothered by the fact that the rest of the Gaunts stopped harassing him and his family as they slowly killed each other off, then he reads the Prophet article about them in the 1920s and it’s like he’s right back to being a teenager again, reminded of everything his old family did to him as all the trauma rushes back and he grieves for the fact that they never even gave him the opportunity to reconcile with them.

If you’ve ever seen that famous Bojack Horseman episode with the funeral, there’s one part where Bojack talks about what losing a parent is like (here, from 0:52 onward). That’s kinda what I’m going for with Ominis learning all the other Gaunts are dead: his relationship with them was never good, but he didn’t even realize he had been holding onto that hope of things getting better until they were long dead. Ominis still knows his real family is with Isabel and their now-grown children and possibly grandchildren, but he is still devastated.

I think this is really at the crux of why Ominis is my favorite. I’ve experienced this irl, and it’s why I have such a hard time doing things like imagining the scenarios in the first question; I like being able to go through this alongside a fictional character like Ominis, but I also need him to be happy in other parts of his life because I do too. Sort of wish fulfillment I guess, it’s sometimes difficult to describe lol

[kindheart525]

“Oh Bojack, look at you! You’re as cute as a button in that little sailor suit!”

“You really think so, Grandma?”

Little Bojack Sugarman batted his eyes sweetly, stretching his arms out so his grandmother could see his full outfit. To tell the truth, he didn’t really like being dressed as a sailor that much, but he loved being doted on by his grandmother and that made it worth it.

“No doubt about it! Mr. and Mrs. Bloodsworth are going to love it, you’ll be the talk of the dinner party!”

“Now Honey, we’re going to a dinner party with the Creamermans,”

Her husband, Joseph, corrected her sternly.

“You really ought to listen better when we make plans like this!”

“Oh yes, that’s right!”

Honey laughed her mistake off.

“Corbin could have been part of the family, you know. He would have been a really good match for Beatrice if she’d gotten her act together. If you’d taught her better. A perfectly good business opportunity, for shame.”

Joseph lamented, speaking in a low voice and leaning towards Honey in hopes that Bojack wouldn’t hear.

But Bojack wasn’t dumb, he had eyes and ears and knew his grandfather wasn’t happy with his mother.

“Does that mean Mr. Creamerman could have been my daddy? I’d like that, I’ve always wanted a daddy. Mommy won’t tell me about mine.”

Joseph panicked a bit once he realized his grandson had heard him, but he quickly stood up straight and rigid to save face.

“Well Bojack, your father was a no-good bum and a louse, and that’s all you need to know.”

Honey could sense the tension between her husband and grandson and she knew little Bojack had a lot more questions, but she didn’t want this to escalate any further. So she knelt down to the colt’s eye level and started pinching his cheeks affectionately.

“You’ll get to show everyone the lollipop song, won’t that be swell? And if you’re a good boy, Uncle Crackerjack will take you out for ice cream afterwards!”

Bojack started to feel a bit better at the thought of spending time with his uncle. He didn’t really want to perform in front of a crowd but it was better than being with his mother who did nothing but insult him. This was just the small price he had to pay.

As long as he was loved by somebody, Bojack wouldn’t stop dancing.

~~~~~~~~~~

More of the “Crackerjack lives” AU! Here is a look into Bojack’s relationship with his grandparents, which is definitely a lot better than his relationship with his mother but not without its flaws.  Joseph is still as prideful and self-centered as ever, deflecting blame for all the problems in his family and treating Beatrice more like a failed business pawn than a person who was failed by the people around her. Honey takes on the brunt of Joseph’s gripes but she tries to make sure her grandson is loved and happy like his uncle was growing up, even though she sometimes forgets things nowadays.  And of course, Bojack lives with the persistent absence of his father and the pressing question of what his life could have been like if his family were different, if he had a daddy of his own. Would it be better?

~~~~~~~~~~

[Image Description: Bojack is an anthromorphic horse child with a brown coat, black mane, and white markings on his nose and forehead. He stands with his arms outstretched as he shows off his blue-and-white sailor suit, smiling nervously up at his grandfather, Joseph Sugarman.

Joseph stares down at him with his arms crossed and a stern frown on his wrinkled face. He has a lighter brown coat with a graying brown mane, with darker brown around his snout and a white forehead diamond that matches Bojack's. He wears an off-white suit with a blue bowtie.

Honey Sugarman kneels down next to Bojack, smiling at him affectionately and holding his face in her hands. Her curled mane is auburn but graying, and her coat is reddish brown. She wears a pale teal dress with a red flower pattern, a bracelet on her left wrist, and red lipstick for an upper-class look. 

End Image Description.]

[bojackandherb]

For your Declared Dead Au. Does Bojack still have any connection with Beatrice or Butterscotch?

Post adoption, you mean?

Crackerjack never allows him to be unsupervised around butterscotch or Beatrice again. I don’t know if Bojack ever really does end up spending any time with or talking to his parents after being adopted. Crackerjack still talks to Beatrice (he still loves her even if he hates how she treated Bojack, and part of him blames himself for the way she ended up). He would tell Bojack how his mom is doing if he asked. If she asked, Crackerjack might let Beatrice have a short, supervised visit, provided she was on her best behavior… however, even though she secretly misses Bojack, I doubt she’d ever ask. (Both because she’s barely able to admit she wants to see Bojack even to herself, and maybe because deep down she knows that Bojack is better off without her…)

The most Bojack sees of her is like, maybe if he came home when she was on the way out after coming to see Crackerjack or something. Bojack might secretly try to call her a few times (but only answer if she’s the one picking up, otherwise he immediately hangs up… although even if she did answer he might panic and hang up anyway…)

Anyway, once Bojack is an adult, one time Crackerjack tries to do a thanksgiving dinner with the whole family. Hoping that maybe Beatrice and butterscotch could behave themselves for once and Bojack had healed enough that he’d be able to handle seeing them. He even invites Herb. Even though he knows it’s a bad idea, part of him just wishes everyone he loves could get along and be happy (even if that means Butterscotch is there). And he got caught up in the spirit of the holiday. Anyway that predictably goes poorly and he never tries again and pretty much gives up on his sister ever being good to Bojack. He never tries to get them to spend time together again and tells Bojack he shouldn’t try to see her.

Bojack probably reaches out to his mother a few times after he’s moved out, hoping that eventually she’ll change… but it never happens so eventually he completely gives up on her

As for Butterscotch, well, butterscotch was pretty absent and awful when he was present… (it says something about his parenting that in canon the role of father is shared by Butterscotch and Secretariat in Bojack dying dream…) Anyway, Butterscotch is easier to let go of considering he has so absent and he has an actually good father figure with Crackerjack

So. Yee

[bandofchimeras]

thinking about NPD acceptance/positivity tonight. i still feel uneasy with identifying too hard with personality disorders but here's a thought:

a road block to healing mental & emotional wounding is often inability to accept due to toxic shame, that goes to the core of a person. like a huge part of NPD and other personality disorders is believing "I am X" and "X is evil/wrong/inhuman" and the logical conclusion "I am inherently evil/wrong/inhuman." therefore overinvesting in crafting an image of the self that becomes bloated and obscures actual self awareness. maintaining this image is exhausting and often impossible. especially when it is linked to moral obsessions. nothing is more disconnecting with other human beings than having intense internal pressure to maintain a delusional image of the self as good/perfect.

some folks end up "solving" this issue by inverting it and being fully honest about their shame-based image instead. it's a kind of relief, but it doesn't actually allow you to connect with people. it's Bojack Horseman. he leads with how much of a POS he is, and guess what? self fulfilling prophecy.

he's a bit more tolerable than Mr. Peanutbutter in that show but still - both characters miss out on the full truth of their humanity. Or dog-manity? horsemanity?

The shadow side and the basic fundamentals goodness of being a Being on this Earth, in everyone. In fact life is simply complicated and good/bad a somewhat arbitrary, community defined distinction.

So what does that have to do with NPD?

Well, honesty is a good first policy. But the intense self focus of the disorder, is disabling, and can lead to hurtful actions due to lack of awareness or understanding. I don't see personality disorders as value neutral due to the fact they are disturbances in the balance of human relationship. It's not the pwNPD's fault, but the way they've learned to exist causes issues. It just does. I don't think it's positive although many narcissistic people have positive traits still. They simply tend to be incapable or struggle to do the simple relational repair work of apology, sincerity and investment in others well-being. These are skills that can be learned, as the core wound of toxic shame is also addressed. It is possible to crawl out of the prison of your own mind into the sunlight.

But it is really, really hard work. And that's where personality disorder acceptance or at least just "lots of people are fucked up and it's possible for them to still learn and grow" as a movement is important.

I believe personality disorders need the same destigmatization as, for example, meth and crack. Not because yay they're great! or because everyone will and Should recover or else be deemed Inhuman and Irrdeemable, but because everyone deserves to be seen in their full humanity, and have access to what it takes to recover, even if in the end they can't beat the habit.

Because narcissism is a deep, wormy habit. For most of us, a survival habit gone awry. And for some of us, autistic people especially, we might never be able to survive without focusing a lot on ourselves and getting called narcissistic for it.

A friend talked with me about my inability to show up for them recently. I kept coming back to my intent and they told me this was hurtful too because regardless I still impacted them. And the old habit of anger and denial and splitting came up to the surface. But under it I felt a inkling of empathy, like really being able to sit and imagine what their pain felt like. That inkling gets shoved down because it brings up pain with it - pain of toxic shame and guilt, of frustration that I feel at my absolute limit and can't live up to expectations, anger with myself, fear of those selfish parts of me that don't actually give a fuck.

It challenged me to be honest.

Addicts say you know you're in trouble when you realize you have stopped caring.

So with these personality coping traits, it is similar. I'm losing my battle when I stop caring about others. And I can't care about others without caring for myself enough to at least not be in empathy burnout.

I would really like to be a person who carries extensive knowledge of machinery or plants or languages or myths or even just my friends and community. To give myself over to that and feel how good it is to let go of self image and be in passionate mutual relationship with life. Instead of cramped anxious and stuck within myself like a tangled labyrinth. Or my only area of expertise being psychology I have learned to save myself.

However at this point in life habits are setting in. I know the old cracks and quirks of my traumagenic beliefs like "reaching out to people is a nuisance" or "if I do not pretend to be perfect some terrible thing will happen" or "being liked is more important than anything" they're very well worn. but I am not sure they can be beat until I am secure enough to let go a bit, and get into some deep therapy or creative work.

it's very annoying to be run on old programming and feel unable to do anything concrete about it yet.

So yes, personality disorder neutrality is helpful. Recovery is a life long process. It upset me a lot when I first read that in a forum somewhere. I wanted so badly to be fixed and have this horrible fear and shame in my soul removed. But it's a long dirty process that you have to learn to enjoy or at least feel deeply. just like addiction recovery. Stigma only cements people in their shame and keeps them isolated.

Those are my thoughts for now. And Yes, I've been reading Gabor Mate's In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts .

[sstorkk]

Just finished watching Bojack Horseman, and damn. I'm gonna talk about Bojack real quick because the way they wrote him was amazing.

Like, Bojack is a shit dude. He's a horrible person, and if we'd heard about even some of his actions if he were real, that some random actor did half the things he has, he'd be absolutely renounced. Bojack makes bad decision on bad decision. Sure, he tries to be better. He has a tiny nugget of goodness inside of him and he does try to be a good person, even though he sucks at it. And maybe that's what makes him still even a little bit sympathetic, at least to me. But it's this really interesting like, dichotomy? Contrast? Between being emotionally sympathetic towards him, because you know he's struggling and you know he's trying, while logically knowing that, really, he's not changed much at all. That he's probably just a few harsh shoves from life away from falling off the deep end, once again. That no matter how much he says he's changed, how much he says he wants to be good and even manages to be good on occasion, that he continues to do bad things. That the things he's done in the past can't be excused, not really. That the possibility of him changing that much is almost impossible.

And like, this isn't stuff the show hasn't already pointed out. In the recorded line where he speaks about trying to bang Penny, can't remember exactly what it said but something about fixing things when you've already done so much bad stuff. It's been shown by Bojack almost exactly following the outline Diane told her boyfriend he would in that interview about Sarah Lynn. Bojack is a bad person. We learn about him, we find out the reasons why, hell we even feel for him, at points. But the show keeps things relatively grounded, I think. He doesn't get to escape the consequences of his actions. They don't go away, not in any true sense. People forget and move in, but the people he hurt are still there. He isn't glorified or excused for his behaviour, or at least not in a massively unrealistic way imo. He loses Diane as a friend at the very end. She tells him how messed up that voice-mail left her for a while. Sarah Lynn died as a result of his actions, Herb hated him until he died, Hollyhock is gone from his life. Bojack suffers for his actions. This isn't some 'oh all abusers were abused so you should feel bad for them :(' show. I'll admit it does evoke some feelings that might lead to that conclusion, but I think we were supposed to look at him in that dual way. Plus, if he were a complete jackass, the show wouldn't sell. Also, I don't think most abusers see themselves as the bad guy. Like Bojack, maybe a few admit some of their faults, more don't but still, but they ultimately tend to think that what they do won't matter, they're too hyped up/numb to think this through enough to care, or they really think they're doing the right thing.

It's a rational unbiased viewpoint, a view that hopefully we should have while watching the show or talking to abusive/bad people, that makes us realise they're bad/abusive people. But anyway, Bojacks an interesting character and so is the show.