#gay marriage is not legal in china

[whetstonefires]

okay i like the 'wei wuxian is adopted' jokes as much as anybody, but i do see people taking that premise seriously and like

it's kind of pivotal to the narrative that he wasn't, actually?

adoption is, within the setting, a specific, deliberate process with legal repercussions. people can be formally adopted. that exists. he was not.

adopted wei wuxian would have been in a vastly more secure situation; his ambiguous hovering position where he's simultaneously a nobody-orphan with no formal connections and part of the upper echelon of society is definitional. it's what allowed things to fall out the exact way they did.

adopted wei wuxian could not have walked away from jiang sect so easily; he would have been jiang wuxian. adopted wei wuxian would have been a sect leader candidate, when jiang cheng was out of the running because of wen zhuliu. adopted wei wuxian would have had actual status.

the fact that he's their brother but not on paper drives a significant amount of his jiang-sibling-related plotlines!

adoption would have made a huge difference at a whole bunch of junctures, and it was technically an option on the table that was not taken.

i bring this up for a lot of reasons but also because like. adoption and marriage have a lot in common, as formalized transfers of someone into a family.

there were good reasons for wei wuxian to not get adopted! (also shitty reasons that nevertheless presented valid constraints.)

there are much better reasons of a similar nature for lan wangji not to marry him. to deflect, to try to have it both ways. but they get married anyway.

the fact that our MC is coming into this from a lifetime of his familial bonds being informal and unrecognized and lacking any legal status and vulnerable to summary dissolution while still of passionate importance is not, i think, irrelevant to the novel culminating in a fuck-the-haters gay marriage.

[meraki-yao]

That question was super serious im trying to figure out what's going on, love that taylor got all that exposure but it was a bit surprising, Im from a super homophobic country (illegal/death penalty type homophobic) and china is probably more progressive from where i stand but by western standards its still a lot conservative. So it was odd that an actor who's only popular in certain groups for playing a queer character is getting hyped up there.

Heads up, I went on a rant lmao

I agree. And I was really freaking anxious the whole time he was there because of it.

Okay, for those who don't know, here's the thing about LGBT+ in China. And I'm only gonna talk about the sexuality aspect because the gender aspect is a whole other topic and a lot less progressive than the sexuality side (that being said trans lives matter)

The official stance promoted by the government, ergo the public, is condemning it. Thankfully not in an illegal/death penalty type, but more in a "if we ignore it and don't talk about it, it will go away" type.

There were a couple of years I think in the mid-2010s where significant progress was being made in terms of both representation (see shows like Guardian, the Untamed, Word of Honor) and pride organizations and support (see Shanghai Pride)

But starting in mid-2021 the government suddenly cracked down on queer representation. "Effeminate" men were publicly condemned and called "sissy" BY THE OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT NOTICE (I was fucking fuming when I read it). Dangai (BL, or simply, adapted from gay novels) shows were banned. Multiple LGBT+ organizations were shut down without explanation. And just this year, when a singer with a famous song about being an LGBT ally supporting the community held a concert in Beijing, anyone with anything remotely resembling a rainbow was banned from entry and had to hand in the rainbow object, even if it was their clothing. And those stuff were never returned. The older generation, such as my parents' generation, condemn it. It's not an optimistic sight.

But here's the fucking truth: queer people, have always existed, and always will. So actually, younger people, I'd say 30 years old and younger, the vast majority accept queerness. Gay couples are sharing their lives on Bilibili. Danmei (explicitly gay) radio dramas, novels, and comics are still being produced and consumed. There are so many people watching Western gay shows and movies such as RWRB as well as producing gay fan content. And honestly, part of it is due to the shipping culture here (which is a whole other topic I can write a dissertation on).

Either way, what I'm trying to say is regardless of whatever the "official stance" is, the demographic that's active on social media is accepting of it. Which is why RWRB could gain such popularity in China.

As per my last ask, I think the main reason for inviting Taylor is his willingness to try things the local way. A lot of times Chinese capitalists/executives don't really care where the star got their fame from, they just care that they are famous.

The difference with Taylor is that actors in China of a similar level of status locally to Taylor and who have been in queer productions don't talk about it after the promo period is over. If anything, gaining fame from being in a Dangai is kind of considered shameful. In fact, they actively avoid it. Taylor is of course, more than willing to talk about RWRB. In fact, during the videos, live streams and stuff, I was actively observing if RWRB would be brought up by the Chinese side/host. It wasn't. During the Little Red Book livestream, despite basically everyone in the live chat spamming RWRB comments, Taylor was the one who said "Oh I see talk about RWRB, what do you want to know?" And I understand that there are several potential reasons why RWRB wasn't brought up by the host, including time constraints, pre-set questions, pre-set agendas etc, but latent homophobia is also a potential reason.

Either way, yeah. I don't really know what the conclusion of this ramble is but here you go 😅

[cb-reblog]

Note: I do not endorse these views.

Translation:

Wuyue Plaza warns you:

Beware of homosexuals

How can a country be prosperous without full of descendants?

How can we have peaceful and healthy lives without a prosperous motherland?

——Lecture on Preventing Homosexuality

[lgbtally4ever]

TAIWAN EQUALS LOVE

Now on GagaOOLala

[chemicalarospec]

bro I’m fking dying homosexuality was decriminalized in CHINA before the US (nation-wide). y’all’s racism in seeing China as a “backwards” country has really gotten to me smh.

[transboysokka]

Some neat facts about Taiwan I wish more people knew

First of all and most importantly, Taiwan is NOT a part of China! It never has been! It has its own government, currency, passports, etc. The only reason Taiwan doesn't officially "declare independence" is that China would probably blow it up if that happened

Taiwan has been occupied by Spain, the Netherlands, and most recently, Japan. After World War II, Taiwan was under martial law for a long time and some terrible things happened, but now Taiwan is the 14th freest country in the world, and the freest in Asia!

Taiwan was the first country in Asia to legalize gay marriage, and hosts the largest Pride celebration in Asia every October!

Bubble milk tea was invented in Taiwan!

Taiwan has A LOT of scooters and A LOT of convenience stores! It's not uncommon to see two 7-Elevens right across the street from each other. At a 7-Eleven in Taiwan, you can pick up and send packages, pay bills, top up your cell phone, buy a coffee, do laundry, buy concert tickets, print documents, and grocery shop!

ALL Austronesian peoples originally came from Taiwan. There are still over 16 distinct Indigenous tribes today (2.3% of the population), all with their own traditions.

The garbage and recycling trucks in Taiwan play music so you know they're coming. There are mostly two specific songs, one of them being Fur Elise. A lot of Americans who come to visit think it's ice cream trucks they are hearing, but nope, it's the garbage.

Most stray dogs, especially in the rural mountains, are partially Formosan Mountain Dog, an incredibly rare and beautiful species, and one of the most ancient species in the world!

Almost all of the chips making your iPhones, laptops, or cars function, were made in Taiwan! This makes the semiconductor industry a HUGE deal in Taiwan, and makes Taiwan a HUGE deal around the world

Taiwan is the most mountainous island in the world! 2/3 of Taiwan are covered in mountains, and there are 268 mountains that are taller than 3000 meters!

Taiwan has four official languages- Mandarin, "Taiwanese" (Minnan), Hakka, and the "aboriginal"/Indigenous languages. The most widely spoken language (in the North, at least) is Mandarin, by far. Some old people can still speak Japanese.

It's not 2023 in Taiwan; it's 112 (You'll see 2023 used more and more often though, but like my National Health Insurance has my birth year as 83)

[rainbowsky]

GG and the Duomo di Milano

Duomo 2019 (left), 2023 (right) and 2024 (top).

He has posted a photo of it whenever he goes to Milan, since his first trip there in 2019. Here's my CPN on that.

Fake, fan fiction, CPN.

Of course, as an artist and a photographer it makes sense that GG is interested in this beautiful building. Gorgeous intricate architecture that is covered in lifelike statues, no doubt it is very satisfying to photograph. It's truly one of the most stunning cathedrals in the world. But we're turtles, so we're always going to look at things from a slightly different angle.

This CPN first came up back in 2019, the first time he went to Milan. GG said in an interview that he was excited to see the cathedral, and he posted a picture of it on his Weibo account. Turtles at the time speculated that GG was inspired by the photos that were all over the news in 2016, when same sex marriage was legalized there.

It was the location of massive LGBTQ rallies when same sex marriage was being debated and put to a vote, and was the site of equally massive celebrations when that vote won.

Some people are skeptical of this connection because they feel that the time gap of a couple years is too large for it to be relevant, but to me those people can't possibly understand how significant the same sex marriage fight is to queer people who wish to marry (and who wish to have their human rights recognized in general).

Especially around that time in history, when the fight was at its most active globally. There was a period of a few years where the issue was constantly in the news, as more and more countries were gradually recognizing legal rights for same sex couples. Images of those protests and celebrations were inspiring and exciting for queer people all over the world, and those who cared a lot about the issue followed that news pretty closely.

This is an issue of significance to queer people everywhere, even those who don't want to marry. It represents a shift toward acceptance and toward broader legal recognition of equal human rights for queer people.

Same sex marriage is a huge hurdle toward equality for anyone whose rights are at stake, because most of the opposition to human rights for queer people tends to come from religious groups and conservatives with narrow notions of 'family values'. When societies acknowledge - even on paper - that queer families are legitimate, the biggest barrier has been crossed.

Based on a lot of things I've seen from GG over the years I believe he's very deeply invested in Pride and gay rights. He's not at liberty to be as open about it as he'd like to be, but I believe he shows what he can. I have talked about that in more detail in this post.

I also believe that marriage is something that both GG and DD care a lot about. They are each others anchors in life, and even when they don't get to spend a lot of time together, they are home to each other. DD has also talked about wanting a son, and GG has also shown interest in children and family and often talks about a simple life.

They just ooze domesticity on many levels, and I think that even if it doesn't fit within their lives right now, they probably talk about and think about building a family together one day. And given the culture in China their parents likely want that for them as well.

I talked about the possibility they might already be married in this post. I talked about the possibility of them wanting kids in this post about DD saying he wanted a son, and later in this one from an OOL interview where GG mentioned envying Gu Wei's life.

Both GG and DD strike me as being connected to queer culture, just given some of their jokes, attitudes, etc. and some of the people they're associated with. Even their experience with filming CQL (which I talked about in this post). They're also both from the younger generation in China, which is much more progressive and informed on these issues.

All of this leads me to believe that it's not an accident that this landmark has captured GG's imagination.

The Duomo is also a very popular wedding/romantic photo destination, and where couples often propose.

I think that it's romantic that GG posted the moon over the cathedral this time. There are a lot of fake rumors and CPN around GG and DD and the moon, and turtles believe that they often send pictures of the moon to each other. They've both posted photos of the moon on social media in the past.

There have been a lot of posts about their connection with the moon over the years. A few of my favorites are Pie's post from Mid-Autumn Festival, Pie's post about Midsummer Moon (among other things) and of course the LRLG rumor that talks about DD taking pictures of the moon for GG.

Given what this landmark might mean to GG, it makes this photo even more special.

Or he could just enjoy photographing a pretty building. We'll likely never know for sure.

[absolutebl]

This Week in BL - New & Old Tropes Galore

Entirely subjective yadda yadda. Organized sorta by favs in each category.

Sept 2023 Wk 4

Ongoing Series - Thai

I Feel You Linger in the Air (Fri grey) ep 7 of 12 - occasionally I forget that Yai is like 20 and this is his first love affaire. That poem bit gave me very Goethe vibes. Lots of doomed lesbians in this ep. Doomed love in general. Frankly? I was hoping for more oil less sad. Also, these two are making some v stupid mistakes. Also: MORE boys dancing.

Finally... who was it wanted a rain kiss? You got your rain kissing here, okay? No umbrellas to be had, apparently.

Dangerous Romance (Fri YT) ep 7 of 12 - I love them so much. They are so darn adorable. I like how forthright Kang is. Boy has no game and is such a dork but at least he's enthusiastic. I love the “my boyfriend smells good” trope that BL is into these days. I’m into it, too. The bff enemies drunken bathroom shenanigans was v funny. Also @heretherebedork your boys are couple dancing all over the damn place this week.

I guess we get the boyfriends ep next week?

Hidden Agenda (Sun YT) ep 12fin - The conflict really kind of wasn’t in this last ep. But I guess it was a fine, if not a particularly strong, ending. I wish we’d had the family conflict threaded throughout the series. It would have felt like a deeper more honest drama and the actors could have handled it. They’re ready. How pretty were Joong’s single picturesque crystal tears? Honestly, it's been lovely, boys. Not at all memorable, but lovely.

Quick pitch Hidden Agenda: 

A relatively simple and harmless old-fashioned style university Thai BL, that started out Cyrano de Bergerac style but then drifted away into forgetfulness. It felt like it could have fit into the En of Love universe, except that it was high quality GMMTV with very pretty makeup. I enjoyed it for what it was, it's just that wasn’t much. 8/10 RECOMMENDED

Naughty Babe (Sat YT) ep 5 of 8 - Am I mostly watching this for Est and annoyed he doesn’t have a pair? Yes. (Am I writing a whole revenge plot in my head: "seduced to the good side by my enemy's hot bodyguard" with him and the Tem character? Yes. Yes I am. But that’s way too KinnPorsche for this show.) That said, MaxNat really are a great pair. Nice that Dio is figuring out how evil his own family is. Weirdly, I kind of like this speculation that if gay marriage were legal rich families would use it for arranged-marriage power plays. Can you imagine what China would do with this concept if they had access to it? 

Love in Translation (Sat iQIYI) ep 7 of 8 - The morning after was sweet, I do like it when we get these scenes in BL. FYI no one misgendered Bojji except the caption writer. The screaming "discovery" scene was adorable. And I am very much falling in love with all of the side characters. I also love how aggressive Yang is, like he stepped out of a 2016 Chinese BL into Thailand. And I adore the main brother relationship.

I have to say, this is going to be a difficult BL for me to review. I didn’t like the first 4 episodes but it seems like I’m going to love the final 3. I’m actually really looking forward to the finale next week. Boy, do I feel strange about this. In other news, is it just me or is it weird to get a gay kiss from Ngern almost 10 years later? How late is too late for smooching a boy? 

Never too late...

Absolute Zero (Thai Weds iQIYI) - from 2021, Studio Wabi Sabi and New Siwaj finally brings us this “time loop to prevent tragedy” romance based on the novel of the same name. I think we can expect this to be sad (so it will likely slide down my list as I become more confident about this). Mix is a great actor, so I’m not worried about that aspect, but I am warning you this won’t be your classic fluffy Thai BL. It’s a bit slow moving for me so far. Meanwhile, a revelation:

Thai high school BL is all about the hands. I blame Love Sick.

FYI the outdoor movie they watch is Love of Siam Thailand’s first real queer movie, also featured in My Only 12%.

I'm in trouble, Ongsa is such a sunshine cutie and Sansoon is so lost and sad. Pretty sure I won’t have the patience for 12 episodes of this, but I’ll stick with it for now because a pair like this is yaoi-induced catnip for me.

Only Friends (Sat YT) ep 8 of 10 - Ah, Ray, baby, you can’t get what you want if you want the wrong thing. Also, corruption charges much? Is Ray turning into Ton or is that just me? I still hold that Jenny’s is the only story I actually wanted. Although, I did enjoy the two bi boys bonding over Freddie. GMMTV sure is making good use of Title now that they got him away from Wabi Sabi and I’m NOT mad about it (4 shows & counting). Under ordinary circumstances, I probably would have dropped this show by now. But something keeps dragging me back.

My Universe (Sun iQIYI) Right Time Right You ep 6 - This couplet ended up feeling like an amateurish short. It was interesting in that way shorts can sometimes push into unusual territory, but very slow. My favorite so far, but that’s not saying much since we've only had 3. Kinda amorphous ending. 5/10 watch it if you have nothing better to do. Next week's looks pretty but silly: You Are My Soulmate.

Venus in the Sky (Tues iQIYI) 5 of 10 eps - I don’t understand the bit with the girl, car & eyebrows. Was that all just ad copy? This show is so bad I’m mostly fast forwarding now. I mean the leads are cute and earnest but that’s it. NO SINGING! And... nothing happened this ep. 

Ongoing Series - Not Thai

Kisseki: Dear to Me (Taiwan Tues Viki & iQIYI) ep 7-8 of 13(?) - Buckle up I got A LOT to say. Ep 7 was the boyfriends ep! Look there’s a a lot of problematic going on here by western standards: age gap (FYI age of consent in Taiwan is 16) + teacher+student, but if you’ve been reading this blog for a while you should know that Taiwan likes both high heat and taboo content (and so do I) plus (unlike Mame) they just lean lube into those kinks. And I, for one, am delighted. I talk about taboo in terms of age gap here and stepbrothers here. I’ve never done teacher/ student because we don’t get it often enough (insert sad face). These are not things that I’m going to complain about or rehash, so, moving on...

I found a lot to love about ep 7: tie grabs, smiley kisses, communication, being held down, younger aggressor, AND preliminary research= all good things. They even brought in morning aftercare, and shared trauma! I love a show that’s both unexpected yet entirely classic Taiwanese BL. I love that the family appeared as a plot device and then disappeared again. It’s all highly amusing.

Gaga dropped ep 8 a week early, I’m assuming this was a mistake since they skip next week. But hey! 

Ep 8: def uhaul lesbians. Also cute queer fam moment. Ring finger biting = v hawt. Then of course it all goes south. Tres romantic means of taking the rap, gotta say. No one does gay sappy quite like Taiwan. Also, now we know why he loses his memory and Ai Di has to go in after him. Honestly, I’m not pleased to see yet another amnesia trope raise its ugly… head (why so many this year?). But it seems to be this year's trend. 

And I know there is more trauma coming, but in classic Taiwan fashion it’s all gonna be fine in the end even if that HEA is chaotic and entirely unearned. Don't worry, all. We good.

You Are Mine (Taiwan Fri Gaga) eps 4 of 10 - Oh noes, sunshine has a cold. And not from the rain... just, like, a normal cold. Amazing. But then when baby gets kidnapped, daddy gets v mad. Honestly, I am charmed by the show. It is very old-fashioned "domineering CEO puts little lady up against the wall" and it’s Taiwan, and thus I am not mad about it. This is what we would be getting from Mainland China if China we’re still making pulp BL. I am disposed to simply enjoy the utter "80s bodice ripper but gay"-ness of it all.

Bon Appetit (Korea Weds iQIYI) 1-2 of 8 - from 2022. If you have premium icky VIP you can binge it all now. I don’t, so instead I’m watching it 2 new episodes every Weds. Struggling heartbroken loser-ish office worker who lives off junk food + sunshine neighbor who loves to cook (from his past with a long-held crush). Also there is a "love class" element. Why does Korea like this conceit so much? Do their universities really engage in socialization training? Gotta say I’m getting whiffs of stalker... but only whiffs. Basically, this show is going poster child “way to a man’s heart is through his stomach“. Bit too much flashback, but I like that our chef is open about liking a boy, and I like that they remember things differently and in alignment with their own egos. And I like that we got a confession already. Ah KBL, it is nice to watch something that MUST move plot quickly. 

My Personal Weatherman AKA Taikan Yoho (Japan Sat Gaga) ep 6 of 8 - Jealous weatherman is ridiculous. Japan = queen of “why don’t you guys just talk?” 

Mr Cinderella 2 (Vietnam Sat YT) ep 2 - Ba Vinh & Minh Thao reprising their roles as Dung & Khoa what do we think? 8 eps? 10? We got the stepbrothers (or whatever they are) backstory. Also My Prettiest Cat-boy does certifiable nutcake v well. Psychopath looks hot on him.  

It's Airing But...

Crazy Handsome Rich (Sun Gaga) ep 3 of 10 - The sound. No. DNF 

I Cannot Reach You AKA I Can't Reach You AKA Kimi ni wa Todokanai (Japan Tues Netflix-Japan & ????) - Adapted from the manga, childhood best friends: The cool, smart one who’s good at everything, and his average, dorky friend who struggles. Always by the other’s side, but not together in the way they truly want to be.

Unfortunately I Cannot Reach You, in classic JBL fashion, could not be reached. 

In case you missed it?

Viki dropped Our Dating Sim the movie. I didn’t notice any extra footage and they took out all the in game/high school flashback stingers. At first, I didn’t really miss them but by the end of the movie I really did. So this is going to be one of those rare KBL instances where I recommend sticking to the original series over the repackaged movie.

Next Week Looks Like This:

Upcoming October BL

10/1 Can I Buy Your Love From A Vending Machine? AKA Sono Koi, Jihanki de Kaemasu ka? (Japan cinema release in-country only) - This one is a movie from Japan so in customary fashion who tf knows when (or if) it will get international distribution. Salaryman Ayumu Koiwai just can't tear his eyes away from the strong, muscular man as he checks on the stocks of the vending machine in his office.

10/5 If It’s With You AKA Even If I Fall In Love With You AKA Kimi to nara Koi wo Shite Mite mo’ (Japan Gaga) - from MBS a live action adaptation of Kubota Maru’s manga ‘君となら恋をしてみても. Amane has stopped loving people due to trauma until he meets Ryuji. At first Amane just wants to play with Ryuji but… feelings. I am assuming 8 eps and rumored to be taking Weatherman's spot so that date is likely wrong.

10/6 What Did You Eat Yesterday Season 2 AKA Kinou Nani Tabeta? Season 2 (Japan Gaga) - 4th installment in this series (1st series, 1 special, 1 movie prior) about a lawyer who lives with his boyfriend, a hairdresser, and cooks for him. Season 2 will follow the couple as they enter their 50’s. Slice-of-life drama adapted from a beloved manga series of the same name.

10/6 My Beautiful Man: Eternal AKA Utsukushii Kare Eternal (Japan movie Viki & Gaga) - This is the 3rd and final installment the series. The 2nd season didn’t blow me away the way the 1st did, but I still liked it. I'm looking forward to the finale. I hope we get character growth for a change.

10/31 SHADOW (Thai VIU ????) - this is a horror BL featuring ghosts and other paranormal elements in a high school setting. I'm not wild about Thai horror (or horror at all, but if it must be done in BL let Japan do it). It features Singto (who did paranormal BL He's Coming to Me) opposite Fluke N (who's done a couple horror's before). Also Fiat. Dan suffers from sleep paralysis, and in his dreams he sees a shadow that suffocates him. It gets worse when he transfers schools.

October? Bump Up Project AKA Bump Up Business (Korea ????) - BL staring OnlyOneOf that released(??) as a movie in July but is now being recut and reissued as a series. Stars NineMill and from Idol Romance bulled as a love story between a trainee who is about to debut and a celebrity from the same agency (based on a webtoon). OnlyOneOf have been auditioning for this since Libido IMHO. You can watch me chronicle their BL MV work in this post. Idol Romance will do sad but can do good kisses (Wish You, Nobleman Ryu, Once Again, Kissable Lips, Poongduck 304, Tasty Florida, Tinted With You) but I don't think we will get any in this. After that OmegaX Shoulder bullshizz buisness I am very wary of this show.

2023 forthcoming BL master post (see comments, some are inaccurate, NOT KEPT UPDATED).

THIS WEEK’S BEST MOMENTS

There was a ton of truly great stuff in this week's Kiseki, but this was hands down my favorite. (Pun intended.)

Oh and the neck kisses of course.

I LOVE HIM your honor.

GMMTV's ongoing love affair with the scent trope.

Calling out out new couple's dance trope. (Both Dangerous Romance)

(Last week) 

[countriesgame]

Please reblog for a bigger sample size!

If you have any fun fact about Taiwan, please tell us and I'll reblog it!

Be respectful in your comments. You can criticize a government without offending its people.

[compacflt]

Hi, big fan of your fics. I've just found your Tumblr and binged everything Icemav-related. When reading about Icemav's political beliefs, I've gotten curious. Does Bradley share the same political beliefs as Ice (and Mav)? Does being raised by them or them pulling his papers influence how he votes? Or there are other factors in the play (e.g. generations, social media)? How about Jake and the other Daggers? How does this young generation of the Navy perceive politics (elections, gender, etc.)? My apologies for bombarding you with questions. But as a non-American, American politics have always been something we must pay attention to. I've seen many interesting interpretations on Tumblr but it feels more or less wistful than realistic, but I might be wrong (again not an American) so I would love to see your perspective on this. Thank you.

a good politics roundup post before i leave this blog

icemav & their conservatism: here, here, here

ice’s NECESSARY conservatism as commander of the pacific fleet (i.e. officers who are most likely to get promoted to the highest ranks do NOT break the service line when it comes to domestic politics, so by necessity ice would’ve had to keep his mouth shut, he Cannot be both a four-star and a revolutionary, like he just can’t; and being a revolutionary is otherwise antithetical to his character anyway): here, here.

and the original “ice & mav politics post” which is being updated here: here

I’ve gone back and forth on everyones politics over the last year of me being involved with these characters, but let me just tell you where I’ve ended up headcanoning them politically, if ur interested

ice: reagan democrat. “educated moderate” who was more right-leaning pre-9/11. now just a regular ol liberal (did you SEE those gay little round glasses in tgm? no way this guy isn’t a straight-up lib) with absolutely no strong feelings about most domestic politics besides “fascism bad”. Has some foreign policy opinions that areeeee questionable at best, like all members of the military elite (hangman voice: DO NOT ASK ICEMAN ABOUT CHINA. WORST MISTAKE OF MY LIFE). foreign policy neoliberal favoring the dovish side of the spectrum. A force conservator (“let’s save our military assets [read: my boyfriend maverick 🥺] for when we really need them, not for any old conflict. the deterring specter of the American war machine should outweigh the risk of underperforming”). He’s in favor of marriage equality of course, but treats it like a privilege and not a right. would be sad/upset if it got repealed but wouldn’t necessarily fight for it. “well at least my marriage will always be legal in california so i just won’t leave, problem solved.” Normie median Biden voter.

mav: political wildcard tbh. original 1986 mav is DEFINITELY right-leaning (i think i’ve written elsewhere, “he fully believes bill clinton is an affront to god”). i get young republican vibes from him. Full on patriotic (but dispassionate) 1980s reaganite anti-commie neoconservative. but after the 2010s i am very confused tbh. Tom cruise’s political aura is an insanely confusing one. idk. No matter what, Mav has some Hot Takes that a.) can immediately be shot down by ice using Facts and Logic at any time and b.) are not strictly partisan. He’s registered democrat just to support marriage equality (his marriage is his top priority but he doesn’t care about Other gays’ marriages, only his own), doesn’t care about any of the party’s other lines. Votes however ice tells him to. I get real “kind clueless libertarian” vibes from 2022 maverick tbh. Especially with the “isolating himself in a hangar in the middle of the mojave desert.” that has a political connotation to it for sure. bro just does whatever he wants out there

also, ice & mav live in San Diego, which… while in blue/democrat leaning California…is famously a bastion of right-wingers & has a hitler particle level off the charts… (sorry its not my favorite place in the world). That’s why they’re both continually so disgusted by San Francisco (a metonym for effete liberal homosexuality). Theyre from San Diego, hatred of SF & liberal SF politics is kinda par for the course down there.

Bradley: as u will see in the extras i definitely hc Bradley as an activist, but because he’s… in the navy and also like in his 30s… It’s not college campus activism, it’s just “things all of us in the left wing can agree upon” activism. so, like, BLM or pride, etc. He’s an “in this house we believe” yard sign liberal. He is 38 years old. hes a solid millennial so not politically hip with the kids (me)

Bradley & ice/mav disagree on the VISIBILITY of politics. Ice & mav, who did live through the vietnam era draft/near-dissolution of American society in the 60s and 70s, are not in favor of possibly losing their job/honor they have fought and killed for, for the sake of a political statement. And they believe their relationship IS a political statement, whereas Bradley would rather encourage them to treat their relationship like, I don’t know, a relationship that has a right to exist independent of politics!

Jake and the other daggers: idk. i don’t really give a shit about the daggers sorry. They r blank slates 2 me. jake especially is canonically frat-boy sexist in a way that gives me the heebs, much like original 1986 maverick and ice. But the navy tends to be the most left-wing (or thought of as left wing in common thought) service of the military, if that helps. But it is also the most traditional service of the military, and by traditional I mean BRITISH!!!! 🇬🇧💂there’s so much pomp and circumstance and hoity-toitiness that comes from the navy’s origins in the Royal Navy. A lot of sticking to outdated tradition in the very fabric of the navy itself, while the navy’s enlisted demographics shift younger and more left-wing/“revolutionary…” some interesting conflicts there. Like that one sailor who got blasted by multiple congressmen on social media for (with permission!) reading a poem about their queer identity on the USS Gerald ford’s intercom a few months back, if I remember correctly. Hoo boy the Takes that day were wild. Younger Americans tend to be more liberal but YMMV with officers, who are by nature trying to uphold outdated traditions of the navy for the sake of keeping the navy a unified service

i am of course writing carole as a christian republican who has gay friends and a gay kid not by choice but by the Grace of God

[rongzhi]

Hi Wawa! I'm curious about a trend in some of the douyins you've posted. It seems like the "punchline" of a lot of them is boys being romantic with each other (like ending up accidentally holding hands or staring into each other's eyes). Sometimes it seems like the script is supposed to be explicitly queer (like that series with the boss and his employee who have the silent conversations). I'm queer and I really like these douyins because I think they're funny and they don't come off as mean-spirited, but I was curious about the cultural context considering China's legal stance on lgbtq+ stuff. Thank you in advance if you can provide some insight!

Well first of all, you have to remember

the internet is more queer friendly than real life

the douyins you see are going to contain a bias from me, the person who is choosing them/reposting them with translations. I am not going to post douyins where being queer is the punchline because that would be absurd and hurtful. I'm only going to post douyins where the queer plot point is unrelated to the actual punchline. For example, in the 双面笑笑 douyins you mentioned, the joke there is supposed to be that workplace dynamic is inappropriate and exploitative, and the 'romance' always has to do with the boss trying to get the employee to work more (which the employee gets suckered into doing).

I answered a similar ask once before, and I stand by what I said there, with the additional emphasis on the fact that there is only so much cultural context I can offer considering I don't live in China.

To add onto it, I would be to stress that it's really a complex and multi-faceted issue on the ground/beyond just government policies or whatever. There is a diverse IRL queer experience in China, just as there is, for example, in the U.S. Depending on where you live and your socioeconomic status, you are going to be more or less burdened by your identity, and it seems (to me, as an observer who doesn’t live in China) that there’s sort of that simultaneous thing of there being continued prejudice at the same time that there is a sense of liberation due to the prevalence of LGBT rep globally/abroad.

↳ For example, I see an argument being made a lot of against gay men marrying/having children with straight women; online, straight and queer people alike will condemn this due to the fact that it is, objectively, unfair to straight women. What I find a bit mysterious is the argument that the gay men feeling pressured into the marriage/family pipeline are doing so out of pure selfishness, and that they should just 'be themselves', as if there isn't HUGE societal pressure in China to get married and have children. Similarly, there seems to be much derision amongst lesbians toward Ts (butch lesbians, approximately) who marry straight men and have children, I'm guessing because they're "visibly queer", although this gets iffy because not all tomboys/masc girls are Ts (i.e, lesbians), but lesbians will naturally feel tricked/betrayed when a masc girl 'profits' (directly/by creating lesbian aesthetics or through being ambiguous/private about their real sexuality) off being appealing to lesbians because she looks like a T, and then turns around and gets married to a guy (and of course, now we get into the subject of bisexuality/bi-erasure/biphobia :S). But I seriously digress.

As for douyin and depicting the queer, there is also some level of what I can best describe as shipping/fujoshi/skinship culture at play? I know tumblr likes to look down on that sort of thing, either as cringe or problematic, but it's quite normal for douyin users to ship IRL douyin users, no matter if m/m, f/f, m/f, etc. (The distinction to note here I guess is that it's quite lighthearted shipping. Sort of like spectating, I guess? Typically people don't read that deeply into it, they just will comment that they ship something if they think there's chemistry there or it'd be cute. There's also a pretty normal phenomenon of fans commenting 'can I ship this?' toward accounts, who generally agree/don't care/reply ambiguously, which is seen as passive approval).

The rise of danmei has helped promote queerness and legitimise/normalise it, but it has also aestheticised it to some degree. It's a similar phenomenon that you see in Western media representation, I feel like. Anecdotally, I've read many a douyin comment section of queer people lamenting that there are straight people using queerness and queer stories and aesthetic to profit, giving nothing back to the actual queer community or to the advancement of queer liberation; again, this is similar to what you can find in the west.

CONCLUSION:

I think I'm starting to lose the plot on this answer a little, so I'll just stop here. Just know that the landscape of queer content on douyin/the Chinese internet is vast and multifaceted, and the queer Chinese community/culture is not going to directly translate to western LGBT™ school of thought/discourse/expectations, though the nature of globalisation is that western discourse has naturally dictated a good portion of LGBT understanding worldwide.

With regards to douyin/Chinese internet depiction of queer "rep", some of it is mean-spirited or at very least, not intentionally mean but still off-putting, either by my personal standards and/or by western (popular discourse?) standards. I just don't post that content because I don't find it worth sharing.

[dragomer]

Why is Sozin outlawing homosexuality in FN a dumb addition? Imo it's dumb because they did for the sake of making him appear more evil and up to that point there were no indications that FN was homophobic iirc.

It's dumb because as a nation based on Imperial Japan and part of a show created in fucking 2005, there was no way the Fire Nation had ever allowed homosexuality to begin with (And the Earth Kingdom wouldn't be any better, it's based on freaking China after all), hell it's even arguable the Gaang would be pretty homophobic themselves, with the possible exception of Aang who'd be confused but a 'live and let live' type. In case some of you don't remember, gay marriage was only legalized in all US states in 2015, a whole fucking decade after the show started.

Same for the same comic telling us the Air Nomads, a nation based on fucking Tibet and Tibetan Monks, who to this day are against homosexuality with even the Dalai Lama speaking against it, who also had complet gender segregation at the temples, being some kind of 'free love' hippie utopians, where nobody bats at an eye at gay stuff or even modern Tumblr gender stuff. Try that in any actual culture the Air Nomads were inspired from or who shares their values, I guarantee you, you're not gonna live long.

It's also dumb because Sozin committed a fucking genocide and yet it's the gay thing that make Korra go 'Oh, what a bad dude!', like holy shit, how badly can you fuck up such a simple concept?

And no, Korra being made Bi / Lesbian once it was safe to do (Which didn't even happen officially in the show proper because the final was still officially sold as 'Korra and Asami are totally doing that as friends') doesn't change anything I said, if anything it just make it more obvious how hard the showrunners toe the line of what's acceptable in that aspect, to the point that to this day, we have yet to see a male Avatar be into another man, because lesbians are way more accepted, sell better and are more easily sneaked into a show than gay men.

Thanks for the ask ^^

[niteshade925]

it honestly really upsets me that people act like being gay means you get shot on sight in china when the reality is that its not even ilegal to be gay in china right now. I don't mean this to say that queer people in china do not face any oppression, like conversion therapy is still legal and there's a lot of pressure for people to be straight, but people in the west really act like china is devoid of queer people, meanwhile being queer in china is not really all that different than being queer in a homophobic US state. And this isn't even like some hidden information you have to be chinese to know, i literally found out about it on wikipedia.

Tbh it's more of a culture/societal thing, and doesn't have much to do with the cn government. In China there is no legal penalty of any kind for being lgbt, and the law will not force people to be straight cis. The only thing is gay marriage isn't legal (yet), but aside from that, in terms of the law lgbt people are just like everyone else. Media-wise, so far as I know, the official policy is that official media outlets (such as cctv) are not against lgbt, but will not openly endorse lgbt either. If it's a privately owned media outlet/company, then obviously this does not apply; for example CQL/Untamed was produced by Tencent. For people who still don't know, all shows will need to be approved by government agencies before release, and people can say what they want about shows needing approval (that's another topic), the fact that shows like CQL, MDZS, TGCF, and various other audio dramas exist and we can watch them or listen to them should tell you that no, the cn government is NOT against the existence of lgbt content in popular media. Society-wise there is a lot of pressure against lgbt, however (more pronounced in older generations), but it's already getting better with the younger generations. This is all openly available information so yea, I definitely understand your frustrations. I remember my highschool teacher said "the internet is a great treasure trove of information and people will be better informed because of it", and yet here we are. The reality is that people will only see what they want to see, and that's it. People wanted to see China as "an evil country devoid of personal freedoms" because of propaganda and racism, and so they did, and they will find things to back up their bias, even if those things are blatant lies.

Honestly judging by how things are going in those homophobic US states right now, living in China as a lgbt person might actually be safer lol, since China doesn't have a mainstream religion that is so openly and adamantly anti-lgbt.

[play-now-my-lord]

in 2035 the people's republic of china will make history by announcing gay marriage is now legal and trans healthcare is to be made available nationwide on an informed-consent basis, yet the brutal summary executions of fujoshis in a guangzhou district labelled "2D Martyr Zone" will continue to shock the world for years to come

[yuri-alexseygaybitch]

i think they were referring to how bad gays are treated according to china law, which like... gay marriage isnt legal and they cant adopt kids and theres no lgbt anti discrimination laws. so like. i feel like ur addition was done in bad faith and it sounded way more racist

Your Christo-fascist politicians are criminalizing trans youth and openly discussing bringing back sodomy laws in 2022. Worry about your own decrepit settler-colonial capitalist government and how its "law" treats us before projecting your dumbshit sinophobia into my inbox.

[sergeantsporks]

For the record, it's perfectly legal for adults to adopt other adults in the United States.

It's not exactly common here in comparison to some other countries [Apparently it's not uncommon in certain countries, like China and Japan], but there aren't many, if any, legal obstacles to it.

Hell, it even used to be a more widespread practice until relatively recently. Prior to gay marriage being legalized federally in the US, it wasn't unheard of for gay couples to adopt one another. Sounds skeevy, but it was one the only legal routes available to them in order to ensure that they always had power of attorney over their partners.

Incheresting. Fun little loophole. I didn't think you could adopt adults, I knew you could leave them in your will and whatnot, but not adopt them. Learning new things