#girls can be femme as much as they can be butch or masculine

[mushtoons]

drawing transfem leo a little more femme than she would be is so refreshing to us 🙏 like girl has spent her whole life in shit water, she can indulge in feminine stuff as a treat being a woman isnt a bad thing and liking 'girly' stuff isnt bad, letting herself do cliché woman stuff just to feel the gender euphoria of it being labeled 'woman stuff' to boost self esteem is everything to us

yes she can still be mega loser supreme, but also take pride in her gender, its not mutually exclusive

[gatheringbones]

[“Some lesbians I know have gay male sex. I know this is what they do. I don't quite know how they do it because I don't really have a cock---not in any of my bodies. I am all girl. I like being a girl.

I like being a girl fucking girls and a girl fucking boys and a girl fucking boy-girls. I like being a girl fucking butches and a girl fucking femmes. I like being a girl fucked by boys and girls in all kinds of bodies and costumes. I sometimes even feel a little butch, but I don't have a cock of my own. I do have two dildos in my drawer and sometimes I want to fill a womon with my whole hand, but I am always a girl.

Years ago, I thought that since I was such a girly-girl, I couldn't be a lesbian, because lesbians were so much more masculine than I was. but then I figured out there was a name for me, that I was a femme. This was incredibly liberating, and I loved being a femme, and I loved loving butch womyn. What I didn't know was that some of the womyn I was loving were not womyn. Or not "just" womyn, not only womyn. I didn't know womyn could be men. I thought male was a dirty word. I thought wanting men meant I wasn't lesbian anymore. How could I have known how many lesbians were really men?

Indeed, I have been wanting men. I am beginning to understand how a lesbian can really want men. I am beginning to understand how much bodies with breasts and dicks really do turn me on. Is this bisexuality? How do I label my sexual identity?

One friend identifies as a female-bodied butch. He says he is neither a womon nor a lesbian, and he takes only womyn lovers. Another friend says s/he is a lesbian but is also a man. Yet another says s/he is a masculine womon. I know two people who identify as transgendered womyn---one is a biological man and the other a biological womon. The bioman dresses and lives as a woman; the biowoman dresses and lives as a man. Both call themselves lesbian.

I have come to understand that, although there is not yet a name for my desires, I am a womon, a lesbian womon, and a femme, who deeply desires male presence in female bodies. I love men on top of me and inside me. This is my kind of lesbianism.”]

Lionheart, from wanting men, from genderqueer: voices beyond the binary, edited by Riki wilchins, 2002

[sophie-frm-mars]

Transmisogyny discourse on here has such an annoying shape to it.

Like I know that a bunch of it is just because it's from people who are / have always been very online / don't have much life experience as with all discourses that take on annoying shapes so I've been trying to not get too fixated on it but like,

Okay TMA (Transmisogyny Affected) and TME (Transmisogyny Exempt) are absolutely useful and valuable terms in the discussion of transmisogyny and how it works, because you need to be able to talk about who transmisogyny directly affects in order to talk about it. The much larger group of the total population is TME people, because that's (broadly) all cis people, and transmasculine people. So the majority of transmisogyny is necessarily directed from TME people to TMA people, but it's important to understand that as a social force it is actually directed from everyone towards TMA people. Trans women also engage in and perpetuate transmisogyny, sometimes incredibly vicious and harmful transmisogyny - the point of these terms is to identify the groups relevant to the discussion, not to identify an innocent oppressed class and an oppressor class who does entirely 100% of the social dynamic.

The next annoying part of the discourse is that in talking as if TME people = the transmisogyny doers, we keep winding up at a transfems vs transmascs discourse. This part of the discourse is like 1 part transfems misidentifying where the fight worth fighting is to 5 parts transmascs wanting to talk about ways they're also oppressed to like 20 parts raw transmisogyny. Yes, people who perform masculinity under patriarchy are more respected by partriarchy and get some benefits from that, and this is reflected in the differences between experiences of transmascs and transfems. This will be true everywhere that there is the basic patriarchal binary gender division between masculine (possessing agency, meaningful subjectivity, power) and feminine (being a type of property that belongs to others). Incidentally this is why the dyke butch/femme dichotomy is just there to sell more gender.

Everyone should get to perform their gender in a way that makes them happiest, and the problem is that we live under a patriarchy, which disempowers some people for the ways they perform their gender. I'm getting really basic here because some people on here talk like they need reminding.

The real reason the discourse is annoying though, just like all online discourses are, is because none of it is about how to organise to actually fight transmisogyny - that is, to make things meaningfully better for transmisogyny affected people.

2 years ago in the UK a teenage trans girl, Brianna Ghey, was stabbed to death after a prolonged campaign of transmisogynistic bullying by her classmates that the adults in her school life were absolutely aware of and did nothing about. Her death was the most important thing to every trans person in the UK for a moment, and then the political energy just dissipated without gaining any momentum. This is because organised structures of trans community, protest, politicisation and direct action just weren't there.

3 years ago in the UK a cis woman, Sarah Everard, was murdered by a police officer. There was an organised vigil which was politicised by Sisters Uncut, a feminist direct action group with chapters across london and the UK which had evolved to embrace police abolition over the course of its existence. The police escalated against the vigil and the spectacle of the police crackdown on women mourning the death of a woman murdered by police became a crucial moment in police abolition discourse in the UK. Because Sisters had already been laying down the organisational infrastructure for years, because it had been holding discussions among members and because it had responded to its members needs, it was in a strong enough position to act quickly and make change in the public consciousness. (You can read more about this in Abolition Revolution by Aviah Sarah Day and Shanice Octavia McBean.) If there was an organisation half as well put together as Sisters Uncut present in the trans community in the UK when Brianna Ghey was murdered, the organised response could have done something similar and meaningful.

I wrote a bit here about how trans people could use an assembly-organisation model to achieve meaningful change, but that's just my personal proposal for what would make a difference. The larger point is that discoursing over transmisogyny online, just like all discoursing online, is just shadows on the wall of the cave.

[genderkoolaid]

It's honestly really validating to read your thoughts on butch identity. I kept myself from fully accepting I might be a gay trans man for a long time because being a butch woman was so integral to my identity (I wept after finishing Stone Butch Blues. It was like being seen for the first time) and I hated that it felt like there was no way I could be both. So I was sort of performing trans man comphet and trying to convince myself I liked women just so I wouldn't lose that word. There's so much gender nuance to being butch that I feel like gets lost when we only focus on the sexuality aspect of it.

"There's so much gender nuance to being butch that I feel like gets lost when we only focus on the sexuality aspect of it." Yes!!!!!!

I came out very young (elementary school) as a lesbian, and cut my long hair to a pixie in the same year. And then shortly after began realizing was I was trans as well. I spent essentially my entire life being visibly queer and visibly queer-masculine a lot of the time. And this affected so much, because I latched onto "butch" extremely young and that became my model for my gender. I never shaved largely because, due to reading about butches, I felt that it was part of my path, even though I also knew it distanced me from others. My sense of masculinity and masculine fashion has always been deeply butch, regardless of my gender. Its such a deep and integral part of me and has been my whole life. I truly feel that I can't not be butch. I don't relate to a lot of "female socialization" both due to being autistic and being visibly queer; I always knew that, while being categorized as "girl," I was also never going to be a "real girl," and everyone knew that. Becoming a butch adult felt more natural than puberty.

Which is why its so annoying that people center butchness on sexuality, and specifically romantic-sexual attraction to femmes!!!! Because while I have, in fact, dated femmes (arguably I dated too many cis femme women who I felt I had to walk on ice around to avoid scaring them with my butch gender), like I said, my butchness is a natural part of me. Being queer is a part of being butch, but the way we talk about butchness makes me feel like people can only view it existing in relation to romance (and femmes). And obviously because of radfeminism, trans men & mascs' unique relationships with butchness have been largely ignored in any way besides "I used to be butch, but now I'm a Normal Straight Man!" & also the general erasure of transmasculinity in lesbian history. Lesbian spaces have always been a haven for trans people, because for a long time in the West, your options were generally "move to a new town and go completely stealth for as long as possible" or "find your local lesbians and be a dyke within a community." There's a reason "butch" has always held so much gender nuance. Radclyffe Hall, who wrote the famous lesbian book The Well of Loneliness, has been argued to have been transmasculine- but the idea that butches may truly call into question the gender binary causes too much anxiety, so we have to constantly re-affirm that butches are above all else women. I'm a firm believer that butch4butch relationships have long been a way for gay trans men to indulge their desire for men within the context of lesbian identity (because all the trans guys are fucking each other and always have been).

Anyways. yeah. let butches exist beyond our sexuality. Understand that "butch" carries so much color and cannot be reduced down to a simple binary concept.

(Also anon, if you haven't, you should read this article about transmasculine comphet wrt gayness).

[goldxnfemme]

Missed Her by Ivan Coyote

ID under read more

ID - images show a piece by Ivan Coyote from their book Missed Her.

Text in image 1 reads:

"Throwing in the Towel

Sometimes you say things without really thinking. Sometimes you write things on Facebook without really thinking about the nine hundred people who will read them.

It all started with the towels. Not just any towels, mind you. These were brand new, fresh out of the laundry, white, pristine, and über-fluffy. I had just stepped out of my clawfoot bathtub in my new-to-me bathroom in my recently painted apartment and into the softest, most absorbent and slightly lemony scented towel this forty- year-old ass has ever felt. That towel wicked the moisture away from my butt like a dream. It felt better than my mother's towels. Better than a fancy hotel towel, even, mostly because it was mine and I knew for a fact mine was the first ass it had ever wicked water from.

It's the little things, right? I sat my luxurious towel-wrapped ass down at my desk in front of my computer and wrote, "My new towels are so fluffy and absorbent. I feel like a queen. A queen, I tell you." And then I hit "share."

Within minutes, the comments started to roll in. My lady friends all concurred. Some of my butch friends, well, some butch bonding time. A small debate ensued. A femme friend of mine suggested we all conceptualize fine linens as a high quality tool, used to entice fine ladies into your bathtub. We riffed some"

Text in image 2 reads:

"about stereotypes. I thought it was over.

The next day, I hung the freshly hemmed and pressed, sand-coloured velvet draperies in my living room, and stood back to appreciate how well they complemented the dark olive accent wall and the bone-white window trim. What can I say? It has pretty much been five years since I have had a stable, solo, sexy roof over my head. I am nesting. I sat at my desk and wrote: "Enjoying my new draperies like I do does not make me any less butch."

And again with the stream of comments. One of my friends responded that butches were supposed to keep thoughts like that to ourselves. Someone said that draperies could be butch as long as there were no pink bows on them. Someone else suggested that we needed a word for a butch metrosexual. This began a longer discussion on the various types of butch: soft butch, stone butch, old school, fag butch, gentlebutch, dandy.

I should say that all of this was fairly good- natured, and everyone's feathers went for the most part unruffled, at least on the page. But something about the whole discussion bugged me, and it got me to thinking about it all.

My first question was for myself. Why did I care if my butchness was called into question anyway? In my whole entire life I have never felt anything but butch, even before I knew the word. That is certainly the way the world views me (going mostly on what rednecks call me from passing truck windows) and how my lovers place me on the fuckability spectrum. So why did someone I barely knew"

Text in image 3 reads:

"calling me a girl and suggesting I needed some butch bonding time chap my tender ass so much? Perhaps it was all those soft towels making me more thin-skinned than usual? And what was up with my butch brothers and sisters? I re-read the comments. Most of the femmes who responded maintained that the word butch didn't need adjectives or qualifiers: just butch would do the trick. It was mostly butches who were uncomfortable with my love of fluffy towels and draperies, and mostly butches who felt the need to further categorize ourselves.

One of the femmes who responded posed the following: "There's also an element of internalized homophobia in all of this. Maybe it's a conceptual leap but it seems to me that the notion that a 'real' butch can't like a fluffy towel or use words coded as feminine to describe her-/him-/hir-self isn't that far from the idea that it's not okay for boys to play with dolls. Are queer masculinities (or whatever you want to call them) so fragile? Their beauty, diversity, and resilience over the generations prove otherwise."

I thought about it all some more. Thought back to being eight years old, and frozen in the girl's dressing room at the ladies' wear store on Main Street in Whitehorse. My aunt was getting married and my mom was insisting that wearing anything but a dress to the wedding would be rude and she wasn't going to tolerate any more arguments from me about how dressy my brown corduroy suit could really be with the right blouse. I was being forced to try on this yellow and grey dress. My mom and the shop lady were"

Text in the last image reads:

"looming outside the dressing room door, taking turns cajoling and threatening me to come out and show them how I looked. My guts were in my throat and all the moisture in my mouth was now collecting in my eyes. I was seriously too humiliated to open the door and come out. I was afraid of the wrath of my mother, and scared of the scorn of the saleswoman, but I was even more terrified of how vulnerable and wrong I felt in my body, in my skin, in my life in that dress. It wasn't just that I didn't want to be a girl. And it wasn't as easy as just wishing that I was a boy. It was the horrible realization that I was facing a world where there were no clothes for me because I didn't fit the world.

So I don't think that butch fear of our own femininity is all that simple to unravel. It is not just our own misogyny that makes us see anything less than manly as weak or less than. Our fear of our own inner girl is so much more complicated than that. Most of us grew up uncomfortable not only in our clothes, but in our pink bedrooms, our gender roles, our families' expectations, and even our own skins. We had to fight to find ourselves in all of that. And sometimes that makes it hard to drop all that armor and just sit back and enjoy the fucking draperies."

End ID

[fatguarddog]

JUST SAW YOUR POST ABOUT BEING FORCE FEMMED AND FATTENED UP ON STREAM and i cant begin to tell you how affirming that was to read??? i mean sure 10/10 horny scenario but

As a fellow transman I feel REALLY WEIRD about liking forcefem scenarios and bimbofication etc and I've had rly weird arguments with other transguys about this before even though if I was cis none of them would have said a word

So thank u for making me feel like i'm not a complete and total freak aaAAA

LISTEN! LISTEN!!!!

I truly believe that a trans guy can be into force femme and a trans girl can be into force masc without it being a destransition thing, 1) because it can be like butch > femme / femme > butch just as a gender expression thing and 2) even if it is like "no I'm a guy but I want a kink situation where I'm force femmed and treated like a girl," like you said, if a cis guy wants that it's just something he's into, so a trans guy can want it too

The difference for me is destransition is (in my view) an uncomfortable denial of my gender and framed as a regression of sorts, whereas force femme acknowledges my masculinity buts posits that I could move forwards into something more feminine. Like I understand if someone else just doesn't get that or isn't comfortable with it where they are in their transition, but it's very much a directional language thing in my head

And I can't say that I think I'd feel 100% comfortable doing force femme stuff irl, but it's at least fun to imagine and play around with online! And in any case, I'm happy you found some validation in reading the post because you're not alone here yknow

[punkeropercyjackson]

Pjo fans gettin' mad at transfem Percy is so dumb😭There's so much evidence for it in canon and literally every transfem i've met in the fandom,which is TONS,think she's an egg based off personal experience and transfem culture and you're creepy asf if you think you know better than them.Percy is canonically not masculine as a running important traits of hers that was straight up a plot in Titan's Curse and is actually pretty feminine since she hates men and thinks women are inherently better and the sea has a lot of femininity to it in folklore,motifs,aesthetics,etc and compares her treatment of younger people to acting like her mom and Nico and Piper who're canonically a gay boy and a butch sapphic respectively said she's not their type because she's not an ideal man like he thought she was and not masc looking enough to impress her and y'all made Percy sexually harrass Nico over it when he's literally a minor and called Piper a pick me for being traumatized by racist white girls

Percy is ALSO a misfit and representation for us and a lifelong protector of in-universe ones so she'd roast y'all so hard for crying over egg jokes/hcs you'd never recover 'cause she's not a normie,she's an audhd punk and realistically is/should be a darkskin afrolatina too.You losers act like Percy being super femme and even princess-y isn't really fitting because of the internalized misogyny and fragile masculinity you project onto her and that's insulting and embarrasing,ESPECIALLY seeing the meltdowns you had over Readriordan calling her 'tragically straight' because you've convinced yourselves it's 'problematic' and 'unrealistic' she hates the men in power that abused her nonstop growing up instead of wanting to fuck them since you want to force her to be a cis man and never even consider maybe she wants to be a trans woman-A part of her you can say is canon with no debunks unlike poser Percy!!She can even have a boyfriend too since Jason is her best friend and has tboy swag as he's the personification of positive and healthy masculinity,the team dad to her team mom,was raised by a wolfwoman and his story is creating a new self after loosing his old one

Bffr,Percy being amab in no way means she can't be a girl and you're bigger pick mes than Piper could ever be for thinking that and you can just say Percy is only lovable and perfect to you if she's a generic white boy,which is not!Respect her instead of acting like you're defending anything but yourself from the lack of girlfriends and swagger

[maitaiwiththecorpses]

It is so so crazy to see what straight people's interpretations of "butch" is. For context, I was called butch today (again) while wearing light blue overalls and a Pink Floyd crop top, and while I know that SOUNDS relatively masc it very much wasn't. Definitely, I'll admit, I tend to dress more androgynous from time to time but I don't think I've dressed masc since early December. Straight (white women) people will really look at any queer woman of color and say, "Oh you'd make such a good boyfriend," and tell them that they're "so butch, like, so butch," without even PAUSING to think about: what is butch? What is masc? Am I letting MY own version of femininity interfere with the way she's presenting? Or even: Is perhaps the comment I'm about to make in good taste?

Don't get me wrong: I could definitely be better than their boyfriends. And I would make a really good man. But I'm not. I'm no one's boyfriend, and I'm not a man. That isn't to say that I'm super-ultra-femme because I'm not (unfortunately- I would really love if my style could develop into that tho) BUT there is a distinction to be drawn with brown girls who are masc/butch and brown girls who are androgynous and brown girls who are femme and brown girls who lie somewhere in between because I FUCKING ASSURE YOU that even the super-ultra-femme brown girls have been called butch and masc before when that's VERY CLEARLY what they're not presenting as.

And yes, maybe those brown girls don't take it as seriously as I am. Maybe I'm overreacting. BUT I think it's tantamount to note that commenting on someone's appearance/presentation and how it relates to sexuality NEEDS to be stopped because it's annoying asf and super offensive. The hypermasculinization of brown and black women is fucking everywhere and it's getting to a point where we're expecting them to just always fit the "strong woman of color" stereotype or the "aggressive brown woman" stereotype and it's becoming impossible to express ANY emotion that's not anger and nonchalance without being looked at weirdly.

Yes, I'm Mat, I can take the jokes and I can take the hits, and I'm so super public about what I do and who I like and all my business and blah blah blah, but I'm also me. I can't take that many jokes. I'm SUPER sensitive. I can take the hits, but they'll leave bruises that'll last the rest of my life. I LIKE if my business stays my business. I LIKE being private about shit.

Anyway, TL;DR: Don't automatically assume all queer women of color are mascs or butches, we have feelings, and basically don't subject us to your own internalized toxic masculinity, because at the end of the day: We're girls too.

[x-honeycomb-x]

ftms can be trans feminine ♥️

mtfs can be trans masculine 💙

completely ooc post, recently my mtf friend came out as trans masculine, and I've also been out as she/they for months now. I was at a t4t party and was referred by people as a trans woman and it gave me so much euphoria.

personally i enjoy being feminine but I wish I was AMAB. I wish I was a amab person on estrogen. That makes me trans. And I'm genderfluid, so when I'm in my feminine mood swing, I am a trans woman.

and turns out im not alone in this! after talking about it on instagram and discord, there's a lot of non-binary people telling me that they want to transition SO they can do more stuff that's related to their birth gender. I literally had said "I can't wait to be at least 6 months on testosterone so I can wear more women's clothes."

my friend asked me, what is the difference between let's say a ftm being feminine or trans feminine? to that I replied,

some ftms want to be a feminine guy

some ftms wanna be a trans woman

yeah! there's a lot of ways people can experience euphoria and dysphoria, and it's different to everyone. I have a friend who went through masculinization and feminization surgery in one day. I have a friend joked they're tris (mix of trans cis) cause they are just butch, not entirely a cis woman but also not quite trans. I have friends who prefer to be on low dose of testosterone. I personally want to be a girl with a dick. And a boy with a pussy.

I remember seeing a post here saying "reblog to completely detransition the person you repost this from", and I think i engaged with this kink in a very cusheteronormal way. i don't want to be bred by a cis man, and I don't want to be a cis girl either. i'm guessing since this kink community is the way I experienced genderbending, it did encourage me to experiment with gender, but also I feel like it has limited my options with gender. or maybe i just wasn't shown the possibilities of genders.

I am genderfluid and now I identify as a futch dyke. I'm a bit of a butch and femme, and I am a lesbian when I'm fem. When I'm masc I am mlm. Sometimes Im non-binary and into non-binary stuff.

Anyways. Just wanna be able to say that I'm trans feminine, and ftms are allowed to be trans feminine, and mtfs are allowed to be trans masculine. thanks for reading. 🖤🖤

[fizzy-tizzy]

Headcanons for all the survivors gender/sexuality

Wilson- Just Kinda decided he was gonna be a boy when he was like 8 and his dad was so desperate for an heir that didn’t want him dead to rights he just kinda let it happen. would fuck anyone but at the same time is not interested at all

Willow- Butch-ish but more in a tomboy kinda way. genuinely likes wearing skirts and more feminine clothing but doesn’t really think she deserves to? if that makes sense? (She doesn’t really feel like a genuine legit girl) hardcore lesbian.

Wolfgang- Very traditionally masculine but in the “My job is to protect and take care of everyone” and not the “im a man so I can do whatever I want” type way. Gay but could totally be in a lavender relationship/marriage and have no problems w/ it

WX-78- Born a cis female, figured out early on that wasn’t right but couldn’t change it until they were an adult. Transed their gender but then figured out being a male wasn’t right either. eventually found someone who felt similarly and abandoned their flesh for the machine. solidly aroace. they’re triple a (agender, asexual, aromantic) just like batteries

Wickerbottom- cis female and “traditionally” feminine, has never felt the need to explore or question it. Used to be married to a man who was secretly gay and looking for someone similarly emotionally unavailable. He has since passed but left wicker a small fortune so. alls well that ends well ig

Wes- kind of a stereotypical femme twink. The kinda gay whos loud and proud and will hit you with a brick if you have a problem with that. feels obligated to help the others try and figure themselves out- esp the ones who are more in denial abt it

Maxwell- I think the idea that max is trans and Jack is cis and they turned out looking the exact same is hilarious. Technically the only ppl who knows he’s trans are jack and charlie- their parents just think he’s a masculine woman and everyone else knows him as a man. Bi and so so weak for bears and gently bossy women.

Wendy- Non-binary but still in the process of realizing it. Does not give a single shit abt romance but would totally be qpp with Webber once they know what that means.

Woodie- Probably Not Cis but has too much religious trauma to even dare questioning himself. He’s like JUST accepted the fact that he’s gay (still thinks hes going straight to hell but we’re working on that) so ynknow baby steps. baby steps. Deffo has a shit ton of body dysphoria due to the wereforms tho

Webber- Since spiders work a lil different in the constant (probably more like bees) there are like three genders Webber could potentially see themselves as. Drone, warrior, and queen. During his childhood he thinks of himself mostly as a drone but as he gets older and his sway over the spiders increases they’ll shift into seeing themselves as more of a queen. But other that he’s pretty much whatever non-spider gender is most convenient. Definitely bi.

Wigfrid- her gender is… strange. What she outwardly presents is her character’s way of presenting herself so ig I see her as kinda fluid? Idk valiant-valkyrie if ur reading this you can probably do a better job of explaining it. you are the defacto wigfrid authority. Definitely lesbian but once again will do whatever the role requires

Winona- Solidly butch lesbian. Definitely a caretaker and a protector but in the butch kinda way and not the femme kinda way. if that makes sense.

Wurt- Butch but hasn’t really realized it yet. does not think human genders apply to her bcs she’s a merm and will 100% be king when she grows up. baby lesbiab. her and wilba’s eventual union shall bring peace to the pig/merm kingdoms once and for all

Wortox- human genders do not apply to him. They are whatever is most convenient at the time. Fluid like loki and bugs bunny.

Walter- if xenogenders existed back then he would totally be like pupgender/buggender. Non-binary but has no problem being called a boy/man. Would be fine with any prns but people have only ever used he/him for him. Probably going to be a monsterf*cker when he grows up.

Wormwood- He is plant. Plants have sexes but no genders and wormwood is intersex anyway but they kinda just chose the first option presented to him once he found the others. Loves all but has absolutely no interest or idea about non-plant reproductive activities.

Walani- Yknow that “as a girl who’s a gross dude men who are fancy ladies are my best friends”? Yeah that’s her and Warly. she’s the emotional support golden retriever to warly’s high-strung cheetah. Lesbian but like. endearingly loser lesbian who’s only ever smooth when she’s not trying to be.

Warly- as mentioned before he is very much a guy who is a fancy lady. Would probably do drag if he had the chance and would 100% be the baddest bitch who makes all the men question their sexuality. Gay and european.

Wanda- doesn’t have time for all that gender questioning bullshit she just wants to kiss women.

Wheeler- Solid futch, leans more feminine or masculine depending on the situation. Woman-leaning bisexual, has probably fucked someone wife and inadvertently caused a divorce.

Woodlegs- pretty solidly cis male but 100% an embarrassing old gay grandpa. Doesn’t know much abt the terminology but is incredibly supportive and was definitely a homewrecker back in the day. Probably got out of at least one arrest by seducing the naval officer meant to bring him in

Wilba- high femme and definitely a baby lesbian. I do really like the idea of her being trans just because why not so why not. She and wurt are fat femme x fat butch once they grow up

Wagstaff- born as a girl but realized he hated it and made attempts to transition early on. Eventually ran away to America to fully transition. Non-binary too but hasn’t realized it yet and just thinks that everyone feels weird when someone calls them mr or sir. men-liker and old man yaoi certified

Wilbur- yes I’m doing the monkey. Gender is a strange concept to him, so he just kinda calls himself male bcs apparently he is? He doesn’t really understand it but it seems to be pretty important in human society so he’ll do it if it means he gets respected as an actual person and not just some sideshow.

[badass-queer-couples-battle]

Propaganda:

For Vanoe: "vanitas promised his canon love interest, as a romantic gesture, that if she started to become a monster, he would kill her so she wouldn't have to suffer. and then later when discussing how vanitas will eventually turn into a monster himself, he said he wants noe to kill him when that time comes. pretty yuri. also i'm a lesbian and i like them"

"Idk they have such a homoerotic shoujo manga dynamic but they're guys. Or maybe not that much but you gotta admit this would be exquisite yuri if they were girls. Noé the gothic romance heroine etc etc"

For Wenzhou: "Basically in their family unit Wen Kexing is the wife but Zhou Zishu is the mom. Also there are lots of genderbends of them around but the best ones are those where Wen Kexing goes super hard on femme but Zhou Zishu deadass has the same personality and appearance - like shoutout to those artists/writers u r the real ones. Also lesbian Zishu still being called "husband" by Wen Kexing, mwah chef's kiss! He would SO be a butch."

"Wen Kexing is compared to a wife twice in the show and at least once in the book iirc. Canon malewife + wears red eyeshadow and rocks a red robe in his Ghost Valley Master getup + his husband is an emo assassin, they are so incredibly yuri even if they're guys"

For Ineffable Husbands: "Well due to neil mentioning that they was plans for a fem presenting 1960s scene of the two of them that never ended up happening, there's a lot of fanart of that. Plus, they are an angel and a demon, and both technically don't follow the gender rules of humans and many other species on earth, so while they do present very masculine throughout the show, they could be any gender and therefore they seem very fitting for this.(I do apologize as I don't quite understand what guy Yuri is despite your definition so I am guessing and have no clue if they count."

"Looks like m/m on first glance but they don't actually really have gender and Crowley dresses as a woman for a good few years canonically"

"theyre male presenting in the show but they dont really have gender so they could be wlw if they wanted to"

"While both characters spend most of their time presenting as male, they are supernatural beings without any real sex or gender. Crowley appears as a woman multiple times, and one scrapped scene included both Aziriphale and Crowley as women in the 1960s. Additionally, it’s very common to find “Ineffable Wives” fanworks, with both characters appearing as women. As well as having been an immensely popular fandom ship for many years, it has been confirmed that Aziriphale and Crowley are canonically in love with each other."

"Regularly turned into women in fanart. Both Aziraphale and Crowley are incredibly gender. They have been together in some sort of way for 6000 years. Heavy yearning. Cringefail. Divorced and married at the same time. Literally an angel and a demon. What more could you want?"

"theyre literally genderless and can be anything ever!!!"

"Their genders are ineffable and they have hopelessly pined for centuries"

[velvetvexations]

Just read that t4t masc4fem (?) kind of article everyone is speaking of, and sure... Being a trans man in the nonbinary lesbian kind of way myself, I kind of understand gnc or queer transfem ppl feeling repulsed since it just feels like too much gender roles...

I can't deal with cis nor trans men who'd approach me like this, not because I see it as predatory but because it's just not my cup of tea. It's not hurting me to get flowers. Or if a femme person is interested in a way that expects an overtly 'manly' role of me etc., again I am not harmed by them expressing such interest.

Initiation isn't coercion, it's where you can either give or not give consent. That's how people find people to date or flirt with. No shit.

Also... There are trans people into those dynamics described in the article. Trans people who wish they could just go on a kind of a stereotypical straight people date. Even a bit old-fashioned flowers and stuff. I think people forget how magical that can be to trans people who, by default, are not expected to be able to experience it.

I'll respect trans folk who find this type of thing gender-affirming. I've seen t4t straight or masc/fem couples like these, as well as butch/femme lesbian couples like this. This is normal trans and/or queer people stuff.

The way people read into the article as inherently rapey or predatory or incelish seem wild to me. Have they ever read anything written by an actual incel...? Because I'll tell you. Incels describe everything a woman says as manipulation. Incels view every interaction with women as a power game. Incels encourage deception, emotional abuse, manipulation and coercion.

None of the above is implied in the article. It's cheesily written for sure, but says something about society how cishets can have their cheesy romantic straight people things but when trans people do, it's gross and bad...?

Trans people are... * checks notes * attracted to or interested in relationships with literally ANYONE and are inherently seen as predators. That's fucked up. I feel like this could even be internalized shame in some of these transfems esp. if terfs have demonized transfem lesbians a lot so it's like. Seeing a trans guy into fem people be masculine and cheesily romantic feels like a taboo, I guess? Could that be it?

Ughh. Also. The part about "exploring sexuality unconventionally" or whatever, being equated to cis guys' tgirl fetishes... Like. People commenting this stuff do not know anything about trans men's sexualities or complex relationships to our bodies. To me that immediately read as;

"Another trans person will understand that the sexual roles or acts we may prefer may not be stereotypical to what people automatically assume about our anatomies."

Allocishet people have an infamously poor grasp of the idea. Trans people on the other hand... May be a liiiiittle better about taking dysphoria to account and not reducing people to specific sexual roles based on their anatomy.

Also they really have decided to view trans men as these hypersexual predatory monsters who can't even be attracted to someone without being a fucking predator. Idk that hurts to read. I wonder if it's again some internalized stuff from how TERFs predatorjacket and shame transfeminine people's sexualities. So they feel instinctively angry, because of shame, when seeing anoter trans person be a sexual being.

Also I wish more people understood not everything other people are into sexually or romantically is about them, nor has to be their cup of tea.

Yeah, it is like, at worst kinna retrograde humor but even on that level it's...not a big deal, and the outrage is especially galling because this is right in the midst of egg drama where it is vitally important we still be allowed to stereotype trans girls.

I wish I had more to add to what you've said here anon but you really laid it out.

[gyougherea]

crp/mh pride hcs

got inspired by a mutual (the-s1lly-corner) <3 i wanna have a silly post about my silly guys. under cut bc i might get long

jeff the killer

jeff feels very greyrom/aro bisexual to me, i think he "prefers" women because he doesn't wanna admit he's bisexual at first. idk if he explicitly uses the greyrom label or anything but it describes him pretty well. he/him

liu woods / homicidal liu

can we give it up for TRANSHETS!!!!!!! realized he was trans (ftm) at a young age, didn't get to transition until adulthood because the only family who supported him was jeff. mainly to hide from his past he's also stealth about being transgender. he/him

sully (liu's cohost and protector) is arohet i think? idk haven't thought much but i do think liu and sully have slightly different seuxalities. it/he (EDIT: its sexuality is also influenced by the fact that it's an introject of jeff)

jane the killer

lesbian and also trans mtf!!! transbian jane epic win. i think she knew for a while that she was a lesbian and then also realized she was trans in high school as she was going further through puberty. i think she's femme lesbian specifically??? she/her

nina the killer

bisexual (initially had a pref for women, now just has a pref for the glasgow killer, aka jeff), cis girl but LOOOOOVES experimenting with pronouns!!! she/her default but PLEASE use neopronouns on her she would literally die for you if you got wacky with it

ben drowned

even if he wasn't ethereally both 12 and 32 he would still 100% be aroace. that shit does not intrigue him! he also uses he/they pronouns, maybe it/its. lost their gender in the whole becoming a computer shit

ticci toby

transmasc nonbinary, biromantic asexual! he/him pronouns specifically, despite not being a man he really leans into masculine terms and also even is on T and gave himself top surgery! yes. to himself. don't ask. it looks awful. world's worst top surgery scars award

clockwork

she/her. not butch not femme but a secret third thing (the butchest lesbian twitter can handle before getting scared /ref)

tim wright (two hcs)

normal hc is that he's biromantic aceflux! he doesn't really have a preference, frankly he's nervous about entering a serious relationship regardless of gender. his asexuality is kind of a roulette; he also probably falls between sex-neutral and sex-repulsed. he/him

"my house now" hc is that he's an intersex butch lesbian (not sure which exact intersex disorder but one of the ones i'm debating is something with 46,xx dsd?) that doesn't care about gender but uses he/him and masc terms because someone called him that and he was like "why not lol". he/him but frankly not offended if any other pronouns used

masky uses he/they in the first hc, it/its in the second hc

brian thomas (two hcs)

normal hc is that he's a gay man! discovered he was gay pretty early on in life and was probably tim's unofficial bisexual awakening back in college. very open about his identity, he's like the queer beacon in my eyes. he/him

"my house now" hc is that he's a lesbian and trans mtf! for the longest time she thought she was a bisexual man, but then in her late 20s to early 30s realized that not only did she feel like One Of The Girls(TM) but also that the only "man" she was attracted to was tim, who's not a man, so whoops! transbian time! she/her

hoodie uses he/it in the first hc, it/they in the second hc

jay merrick

trans ftm and bisexual! went on T but hasn't gotten top or bottom surgery before becoming the nefarious skully or whatever. cracked his egg in college, but probably figured out he was biseuxal in high school. he/him

skully uses no labels just vibes. queer/abrosexual and genderfluid are probably the labels that best describe them but again they don't fucking care. they/them default but sometimes uses others depending on which of their "many" are at the forefront

jessica locke

now if that's not the biggest lesbian i have ever seen in my life... her and taylor absolutely get married in lesbians after the comics are over. jessica probably always knew she didn't like boys but didn't realize she liked girls until a fateful sleepover in middle school or something. she/her

nothing specific for the others rn, might make a part 2 if i come up with more <3 adios

[radfemnotfemme]

Hi! I see you're a radblr and a lesbian, which is great, because I'm trying to understand something but I feel like I'm biased (I'm hetero) and can't see the lesbian perspective properly. I'd like to ask this to my irl lesbian friend but I'm too afraid of sounding rude. I hope you can help me understand better!

So. Let's forget about personality (which is the most important thing for sure) for a second and let's talk about physical attraction only. Lesbians like women. Lesbians do not like men. So it's reasonable to assume they are attracted to the female body characteristics which differ from the male body (like breasts, large hips, female genitals, etc) just like hetero men are. Ideally, the more feminine the trait, the more attractive it should be, right?

So, why are many lesbians attracted to the 'butch' type? From my (biased) perspective, butches are like tomboys, so they seem to want to appear less traditionally feminine (example: short hair - not a male characteristic per se, but it is associated to men because most men have short hair; we could discuss this theoretically, but the social bias is undeniable and no one can escape it). Butches share many characteristics (like style, mannerism, etc) with men, to which lesbians should not attracted. But this is disproven by evidence, since many lesbians like butches! Help. I'm terribly confused.

Hi there, thanks for the question! You mentioned that you understand that lesbians are attracted to female body characteristics (such as breasts, wider hips, female genitals.) A woman has these female characteristics regardless if they’re butch or femme. Butch women may be masculine on the outside appearance or through personality, but at the end of the day they have female sex traits that those who are only attracted to males would not find attractive in any capacity. Butches may try to “hide” these bodily female characteristics, but when in a romantic or sexual relationship with someone you’re going to see what their body actually looks like. Short answer is: butches are females, men are males. It’s entirely possible to be attracted to masculinity but find male sex traits (such as no breasts, deep voice, beards, or penis) revolting or not attractive. Straight women who are attracted to feminine men are not homoSEXuals because of this, just as a lesbian isn’t heteroSEXual for liking butches. Same stuff for masculine gay men who attracted to feminine gay men.

You said “Ideally the more feminine the trait, the more attractive it should be?” which I disagree with. Femininity and female have no correlation at its core, as one is of a biological basis and the other is of a societal basis (though they tend to align, I believe masculinity is the natural state of all people anyways and girls are socialized to be very feminine.) ‘The more female a trait, the more attractive it should be to a lesbian’ is a better phrase, but femaleness comes in all sorts of appearance so it doesn’t really indicate anything or make much sense. You brought up short hair as an example of the similarities between men & butches, which i will agree on, but once again, this doesn’t erase the simple biological difference between a man and a butch. I actually happen to be a butch in a relationship with a femme, so i’m going to offer both my viewpoint, and hers:

As a butch who’s generally only attracted to femmes, I used to not be attracted to masculine women or butches. I still am not for the most part. It took a lot of unpacking internalized homophobia & heteronormative social standards for me to understand why. Everyone is raised to believe that the masculine belongs with the feminine as a child, and gay children are not exceptions to this. I think it’s been ingrained in me since a child that the type of person I should be attracted to is a feminine person. I’ve known since childhood that I was not feminine in the way my female peers were, as I’ve always been pretty masculine. When in elementary and early middle school, the boys I “liked” have all turned out to be feminine gay men (lol.) I never really was attracted to these boys of course, but I was attracted to femininity in females and it was the best I thought I could get. I thought that since I had to be with a boy, I would logically just be with a feminine one. When I understood that being lesbian was an option, I never looked back. It’s hard for me to unpack that me being attracted to a masculine woman isn’t me being attracted to a man, and I know this subconsciously is why I say i’m not attracted to butches much at all. I could possibly be attracted to a butch, but i think socialization has its claws gripped into me (and also just a mix of the fact that femininity is my personal preference in a lady.)

I asked my femme girlfriend her thoughts on this, and this is a summarized version of what she had to say (she thought I was asking about myself):

“[A butch] may be mistaken for a man, or be read as a man at first glance, but when you take a closer look it’s undeniable that you’re a woman. Your eyes are beautiful and feminine, you have a gorgeous feminine body & chest. Your hands are soft, small, & delicate (and no i’m not trying to poke fun at your insecurity i’m being serious) When you smile it’s even more obvious that you’re a woman. I am attracted to your masculinity of course, I love that you have muscles, the way you dress, [redacted personal hobbies], your short hair, how in control/dominant you are. I also love your curves, your soft voice, and smooth skin. & you don’t have the personality of a man, you just pick up hobbies and mannerisms most women are afraid will make them appear “manly.” You actually convinced me to start doing [redacted personal hobby] that i never even considered before because I thought of it as something that boys or men do and now I really enjoy it.”

Sorry if this is a bit of a word vomit or not comprehendible, but i wanted to explain as best as I could lol

[welcometothejianghu]

Welcome to another round of W2 Tells You What You Should See, where W2 (me) tries to sell you (you) on something you should be watching. Today's choice: 彩香ちゃんは弘子先輩に恋してる / Ayaka-chan wa Hiroko-senpai ni Koishiteru / Ayaka is in Love with Hiroko!

Ayaka is in Love with Hiroko! is a 2024 eight-episode Japanese comedy of errors about what happens when two adorable lesbians continually get in the way of their own relationship.

I think the poster gives a somewhat wrong impression: Hiroko (in black) is not a straight girl horrified that she is being hugged by a lesbian; she is a lesbian horrified that she is being hugged by her crush, whom she perceives to be an oblivious straight girl. But as the title of the show would suggest, Ayaka (in pink) is very much not a straight girl, and is instead a determined young woman with sapphic designs on the hot older woman at her job.

And they are both so, so stupid about it.

The whole wacky, wonderful series will take up a mere three hours and twelve minutes of your life, so here, as was the case with Otoko Meshi, is a correspondingly quick list of five reasons to watch it.

1. Clueless Lesbian 4 Clueless Lesbian

Have you ever seen someone have a crush and proceed to be normal about it? Well, you won't find that here. Ayaka is going to con this beautiful, competent woman into topping her if she has to kill everyone in this office to do it.

Hiroko refuses to believe that Ayaka might actually mean what she's saying, choosing instead to believe that Ayaka's actions are pure platonic displays of admiration, even when Ayaka outright says what she's after. Meanwhile, Ayaka simply cannot imagine why her very targeted overtures are always being rebuffed, interpreting Hiroko's continued resistance as a sign that Ayaka is simply not doing a good enough job of seducing her. She's got to up her game, dammit!

If you like the type of business where it takes multiple dates for two women to figure out they are in fact girlfriends, this is for you. Every oblivious lesbian trope in the book is on display here. It's a war of attrition between a woman who feels obligated to say no because she doesn't believe the person asking understands what she's asking for, and a woman who won't take "no" for an answer because she's certain that as soon as she figures out how to ask the question correctly, the answer will be "yes."

And will it be? Well, of course it will, because you know how this genre works. But not before some adorable wlw wackiness ensues!

2. Harold, they're (actually) lesbians

Often in both BL and GL properties, characters are presented as mostly straight with only plot-related same-sex leanings, usually having moments of going, I can't believe I'm falling for a wo|man!

The main lady-loving characters in this show have no trouble believing they're falling for women, because one's been out to herself as a lesbian since she was in middle school, one's just coming to terms with her desire for women but has acknowledged that it probably indicates she's a lesbian, and one honestly just never stopped to consider that being a woman desperately in love with another woman is pretty gosh darn lesbian behavior.

And I like that, you know? As much as I love a good Gay For You plot, I appreciate one that acknowledges that there's a whole very real community out there of people who feel the same way! You are not the only girl in the world who wants to kiss other girls! Lesbians have their own networks, hangouts, stereotypes, relationships, and even aesthetics that are distinctly lesbian. You can find them in real life, and I like it when you can find them in fiction too.

These aren't just straight relationships with incidentally matching genitals. There aren't even any strict butch/femme dynamics or demands that lesbianism equal gender-nonconformity. Sure, Hiroko is slightly more toward the masculine side of the gender slider than most of the other women in the show, but she's definitely not outright masc. While she's real into Ayaka's girly looks, as we see from flashbacks, Hiroko's not what you'd call picky about the gender presentation of her female partners.

They even go to a lesbian bar! The world's tiniest, most brightly lit lesbian bar! A magical place where you can always meet a beautiful red-clad femme, a cute little tomboy, and...

3. That hot bartender

It's like a good fairy granted a lion one wish, and the lion said it wanted to be turned into a beautiful Japanese lesbian, and the good fairy was like, wow, that's such a good wish, I'm going to make sure it turns out really great for you.

We are all the big-titty lesbian in red here.

4. Ayaka's outfits!

A major conceit of the show is that Ayaka, in response to her crush on Hiroko, has given herself a complete makeover, choosing outfits and hairstyles that (accurately) reflect Hiroko's tastes.

Even if you don't like her outfits -- and let's be real, some of them are a bit much for me -- they're still very cute and a lot of fun to see worn.

I do want to note that this isn't just a story about Girl Changes Entire Personality For Boy Girl She Likes. Ayaka's pre-transformation self is severe and almost robotic, and ... well, it doesn't seem to make her particularly happy to be like that. It seems less like her older persona is her "real" personality, and more like it's one that she'd just settled on because she'd been told it's what being an adult means.

There, that's what she used to dress like.

When she decides to change her style, she initially steers way too hard in the other direction, to the point where it feels like she went home and binge-watched fifty romcoms to learn how to be a person. (I'm just saying, if you wanted, you could choose to read Ayaka as an interesting flavor of autistic.) Over the course of the show, though, she gently settles into her new mode, which winds up suiting her so much better! So it's less about the nerdy girl having to leave her nerdy self behind to earn the attention of her crush, and more about how having a crush gives a girl the incentive to stop dressing the same way her parents dressed her in the second grade.

Also very cute: Some elements of her wardrobe get reused! She doesn't just magically wear several whole new things every episode! We see her apartment, and it's not large. She doesn't have room for a million different complete outfits, so she has to mix and match.

So yeah, if you, like Hiroko, like to see a cute girl wearing cute things, this show has just what the lesbian doctor ordered. (It's me, I'm the lesbian doctor.) (No, seriously, I am.)

5. A weirdly thoughtful take on the complexities of queer workplace relationships!

The show knows it can't keep up the absolute lesbian obliviousness the whole time, so feelings start to become clear about halfway through -- at which point the conflict that fuels the drama stops being about mistakenly thinking people are straight, and becomes more about why a lesbian office romance might not be the smartest career move for either of them.

After all, by the time you're in your mid-thirties and you've been working in the same place for over a decade, you're pretty well-established in your position -- but not so much that your job is completely safe from gossip or disapproving looks from your higher-ups. Meanwhile, when you're in your early twenties and just getting started, it won't do you any good to have everyone suspecting any future success is just a result of your sleeping with the (girl)boss.

So the goofy lesbian misunderstandings are fun and funny, but their worries about how dating will affect their jobs are real.

You find out eventually why Hiroko is particularly touchy about workplace relationships, and it's a very good reason! But at the same time the show explains this very good reason, it also points out that Japanese culture is slowly becoming more accepting of out gay people. Ten years can make a pretty big difference! Older generations might still be regressive about open queerness, but there's growing support from the youth.

Like these supportive coworkers! Aren't they precious?

I will admit, I am not the biggest fan of boss/underling romance dynamics. However, that never bothered me in this series, because Hiroko never feels quite like Ayaka's boss. She's Ayaka's sempai, sure, but she feels more like a senior colleague than an actual supervisor -- and Ayaka is 100% the one pursuing her, not the other way around. Still, if the idea of any hierarchy-crossing workplace relationship is an absolute dealbreaker for you ... well, you probably stopped reading this rec several paragraphs ago, so I'm not going to worry about it!

Anyway, don't get me wrong and assume this is something deep and serious about how perceptions of queerness can hinder professional success, because it's not. It's a goofy little comedy with cute outfits and dumb lesbians. But it's also a goofy little comedy that also occasionally makes some smart observations, and I like that about it.

bonus: Of course there's an adorable manga!

And you can read it here! It's a bit wackier and it makes some choices that wouldn't have worked in a live-action drama, but they're quite entertaining on the page. Here's the MangaDex summary:

Soft and bubbly office lady Ayaka is madly in love with her senior at work, Hiroko! Two lovestruck coworkers who both think the other is straight totally crush on each other… popular Twitter artist Sal Jiang’s latest office rom-com!

If anything, it handles Ayaka's transformation better than the show does, because it makes clearer that even after the makeover, she's still as intense and tough to crack as she was before -- around everyone but Hiroko. It even says in so many words that sometimes Ayaka's smiling demeanor is just masking.

The manga also knows a lot better what their job actually is, while the drama is more along the lines of, we work in an office! we do events! we have meetings! we create things for clients! It's basically the same Generic Company, LLC that every character in a modern AU fanfic does endless paperwork at.

Beside that, the series is a pretty darn faithful adaptation of the manga! Three volumes and eight episodes seem to be enough to carry about the same amount of story.

Want to watch the cute lesbians?

Sure you do! And the most reliable place to get them appears to be GagaOOLala, though I've found the whole series uploaded by various people on Dailymotion (here's episode 1 from one account, though you can find others).

It's a laugh-out-loud romp smart enough to know to get in there, tell a cute little bite of a story, and get out before the joke gets old. If you believe in the truth and goodness of lesbian love, treat yourself with this cheerful little romance that's only a slight exaggeration of how oblivious real-life lesbians can be.

Attagirl.

[punkeropercyjackson]

Y'know what i love making lists apperantly so here's one clearing up the misconceptions re Pjo characters and lgbt stuff/gender

Percy is NOT masculine in any way PLEASE at least not in a white way(afropunk),literally every transfem in the fandom i've met which have been a loooooot think she's an egg and a very femme one specifically.They're the ones who use Percy's actual personality and story too so they're right and they should say it

Idc about your opinion on Percabeth,Annabeth is a wlw and it dosen't need to involve Percy in any way,especially if you make jokes about her being a girl like she's actually a binary guy(if you do chances are you've never had a girlfriend)

Thalia's not a pick me,she's a 90s/2000s girl raised who's mentally and physically 15.Also has as much tgirl swag as Percy does and is probs a lesbian(Goth transbian swag specifically and all That with Reyna)

Piper is even LESS of a pick me,it's right there in the text that femininity was ruined for Piper because of racist white girl bullies and didn't have native girl friends to help her reclaim it and Rick's a pussy for not making her a brown butch queen.Do not buy into the propaganda,it's made by trans girlypop Percy haters so they're overcompensating

Nico is nobody's [insert sexual word here],he's 15 and a touchestarved trauma gay who's scared to ask for affection.Also Percy's not his type personality wise,not physical apperance wise and this is what was said in the scene that launched the trope of Percy sexually harrasing him as 'comedy' by people who've never had boyfriends and also why they think Jason and Nico were queerbait

Speaking of Jason,pretty much any orientation makes perfect sense but he's definitely a tboy,Percy literally said he looks like Superman and he was raised by a wolfwoman

Leo is not ugly or an incel,people are just racist.Also he's the other side of Percy's coin Luke stans think he is

Luke's not gay-coded and i'd argue he comes off as a chaser more than anything consider all That with Percy,Annabeth,Thalia AND Silena who's a parallel to Patrochilles with Clarisse

Butch lesbian Clarisse is not stereotyping but playing off lesbian history amd reclamation because Rick highkey made her a caricature of fat butch lesbians

Fr*zel bad,Hazel's a lesbian who's never had a good dynamic with a guy that way

Also Frank is transmasc.His arc is about being emasculated for both being chinese-canadian and his personality on it's own but reclaiming manhood for himself and Mars' blessing is straight up called testosterone in the narration

Y'all can forget about Percy fucking those old men cause she described finding old dudes not handsome at least twice lol(and one of them was Luke LOL).She's 18 and as a 23 year old who wouldn't date an old person either cause like her i pull age appropriate people instead of being desperate

And not technically Pjo but Alex is textually a transfem who hates being theythemed.Rick's intentions are irrelevant,that's a common irl transfem thing and to erase that is transmisogyny