#honestly same marisha

[burr-ell]

I didn't know there are people who like the idea of Percy/Keyleth cheating. I don't mind the ship. People can ship whatever they like. But what is the obsession with cheating?

i don't think it's a sincere concern on the part of the audience at large. honestly, people weren't prepared in general for the fact that the hells were meeting The Lord of Whitestone and not percy of vox machina, and that includes the fact that he and The Voice of the Tempest weren't going to act like old college buddies, and i think sam was kind of reacting to that in his...own way. to me it's weird that people might have needed a deeper explanation.

the answer they gave was the most realistic version of that scenario, though i can't see any party involved genuinely going for it 😂 they even said it would require vex's involvement and i can't ever see vex wanting to bring keyleth in the mix.

(this is only tangentially related to this ask, but i have no small amount of frustration with the "beaujester WOULD have happened if They didn't go for Their preferred ships instead 🙄" -> "we DESERVE imo/dna as an APOLOGY that we are OWED for beau/jester!" -> "vex definitely 100% has a crush on keyleth, she's mean to her because she likes her, being sad she missed seeing her friend is a Category Three Vex/leth Moment, source: dude trust me" pipeline. like i understand people hardcore shipping imo/dna and beau/jes, but vex and keyleth?? really??? i mean shipping is all about imagination and extrapolation, i get it, ship whatever you want, but i feel like i'm missing something when i see people insisting that vex and keyleth have all this chemistry and potential. like...keyleth putting vex on a pedestal and vex thinking keyleth's worldview is weird and a little annoying isn't chemistry sdfkjghdfsdfg)

[utilitycaster]

Robbie's been playing Dorian as fairly quiet since coming back (as Marisha-as-Laudna pointed out), and I think this episode put a lot of it into perspective.

Dorian is profoundly unsure of his place - in general. The Crownkeepers are scattered and while Dorian is welcome in Bells Hells - is a member of Bells Hells, without question - he's been absent for many of their adventures.

He is also, suddenly, the heir and not the spare to the leadership of the Silken Squall, a responsibility he did not expect to have and which he fled shortly before the events of EXU. He mentions his feelings seem unimportant, a reflection perhaps on both how powerless he's felt as of late regarding the events of the solstice, and much more long-standing acknowledgement of a childhood that pushed him into a role that did not fit him. Bells Hells make him feel important - which is more of the same issue. When Dorian is important, his feelings can't be because perhaps more so than anyone else in the party, he knows of the sacrifices of leadership. And now, both because of Bells Hells' involvement in world events, and Dorian's new and unwanted role as the crown prince, those sacrifices feel more necessary to him than ever.

He introduces himself as a bad liar, and now he's simply honestly stating that he's not sharing information. He also says he knows it will come from him; he's not just no longer a liar, but no longer a runaway. Even on the run with the Crown Keepers, something found him; what's the point.

It is unsurprising (and entirely understandable) that Dorian has no desire to make deals with the gods, given how that turned out for Opal, but his view towards the gods is a much more nuanced one than Braius or Ashton's. He remarks that the simple harvest-based cultural reverence Whitestone holds for the Dawnfather is perhaps the heart of worship - an opinion that lines up with, at least, Nick's interpretation of the Dawnfather. He seems affected by the revelation - new to him - that when Predathos first came to Exandria, it killed two of the gods, whom he knows from the Occultus Thalamus see each other as family.

There are two questions Dorian not only doesn't answer, but doesn't acknowledge. He doesn't answer Laudna's question about whether he feels responsible, but I think we know his answer. And he doesn't answer whether he would bring back Cyrus, if he can (and he might be able to). I don't know if he knows; something, certainly, is keeping him up at night.

The most piercing questions Bells Hells ask of each other this episode center around what they might do in a desperate situation: whether Braius will choose to harm the Platinum Dragon instead of stop Ludinus (as Asmodeus chose in Downfall); what terrible things Fearne might do to protect those she loves (as the Primes did in Aeor). Fearne declines that answer. Orym and Imogen express their doubts that they can ever know what's right. Only Ashton displays any confidence, at least outwardly; but only Dorian, I think, has previously been forced to consider a future where he might hold the fate of a group of people in his hands, and it has abruptly become a reality not just for the current crisis, but for the rest of his life.

[marvelousbelladonna]

I love that even out of playing, Ashley and Laura react the same way about their PC relationships with Marisha (Beau and Laudna), immediately going into girlfriend mode.

and honestly, fair. Who wouldn't

[captainofthetidesbreath]

honestly, wild that not only were all three of Marisha's main campaign PCs in the same place, against all expectation and beyond what seemed properly possible, all three of LIAM'S main campaign PCs were ALSO in the same place

in the same place as all three of Marisha's PCs, even

[wistfulwatcher]

[topazsink]

I’m just gonna lay down the law on how I see it - should the sword have been more of a conversation? Sure. That can absolutely be argued.

But Laudna lost sympathy in the argument for me when she decided to SNEAK AROUND and STEAL the sword and then act like Delilah wasn’t a factor at all. “It should be thrown in the ocean” - girl, we all know that’s not what you were gonna do with it. You were gonna LISTEN TO DELILAH and give it to her. Lies of omission are still LIES. (And yes, I watched the cooldown, I know the addict metaphor - you can still be angry at someone while acknowledging trauma. Saying “I didn’t mean it” cannot immediately absolve everything.)

Regarding the “who had more loss” thing - it’s pretty clear Chet meant in relation to the sword. That statement shouldn’t have been so controversial in the fandom.

Also, Laudna showing off her wounds - you know, the ones she got because she ATTACKED ORYM IN DARKNESS and he thought it was an ENEMY - and acting like it was the same thing as what she did was manipulative as hell.

Siiiiiigh.

Honestly, one of the biggest issues in the group right now is that they keep walking on eggshells regarding Laudna, no one is putting their foot down and saying, “This is not how you handle things.” And I get that part of that is because they probably realize Delilah’s influence is there, but there’s gotta be a drawn line in what behavior is acceptable.

And that’s another thing that’s so frustrating, that MARISHA IS A GOOD ACTOR AND ROLEPLAYER and therefore she can lean into Laudna being influenced by Delilah so easily - so it makes me frustrated with LAUDNA. Like I know Delilah messing with her head is what causes her to do shady things. I just wanna shake her and scream, “WHY DO YOU KEEP LISTENING TO HER?!?!” but I know why. But it’s still so frustrating.

The group needs to have a conversation with Laudna and come up with SOMETHING. Because Laudna going to Aeor, a place that probably has a TON of magical artifacts and the like, will not go well if they keep just putting off dealing with Delilah.

[its-mekjt]

Favourite parts of 3×95 (potential spoilers below the break)

PART ONE

▪︎ ashley's photo of sam

▪︎ chepeku ad. could have made me think it's a perfume ad.

▪︎ ESSEK THELYSS

▪︎ they got tusk love oh my days

▪︎ WOO HOO SHOPPING EPISODE

▪︎ oh my god, having parts of fcg/things that remind them of fcg in their outfits. i'm on my floor.

▪︎ lesbians with the matching corsets. it's a canon event i fear

▪︎ i just know that armoury went out for drinks that night

▪︎ the pumats + their existential crisis

▪︎ "HIGHWAY ROBBERY" (honestly surprised they didn't try to steal it)

▪︎ sugar daddy dorian storm (and Laura's face as he hands over 2,500 gold. I can just imagine imogen going 'mhm. that's gay'.)

▪︎ do the pumat's have a soul?

▪︎ "do you want- eh we're the same."

▪︎ chetney pock o'pea. maths wizz. high school maths teachers across the world are terrified of you.

PART TWO

▪︎ essek constantly misses leg day

▪︎ 28 persuasion to make essek join their sleepover

▪︎ DORIAN WANTS TO SEE THE SHOW SO HE WILL SEE THE SHOW

▪︎ matt's description of the show. i love it.

▪︎ laudna i love you, please come to the theatre with me and tell people to, respectfully, stfu with me

▪︎ ESSEK QUOTING CADUCEUS: it's not pain that makes people. It's love (crying)

▪︎ LAUDNA QUOTING FCG: it's good to make every day a smiley day (on my bedroom floor sobbing and throwing up)

▪︎ orym keeps looking to the right. (WHO'S ON THE RIGHT. SOMEBODY PLEASE REMIND ME I DON'T REMEMBER. LIAM O'BRIEN STOP MAKING ME SCREAM INTO MY PILLOW)

▪︎ YEAH, THIEVING IS THEIR LOVE LANGUAGE (why did i think ashton was gonna go for that fucking huge sword earring from the beginning of the campaign)

▪︎ "chetney's sitting in the front row, legs out, slumping in the chair, baguette in one hand, a bottle of wine in the other. fucking riveted." (that's an insight into my daily life)

▪︎ chetney and dorian are my two personalities while i'm zoned out

▪︎ love how they all thought it was kiri (i did too)

▪︎ chetney and his delusions + cloaca

▪︎ why did i think orym was going to get in the bag of holding

▪︎ i fucking love dorian storm. you don't know how much i love him.

▪︎ "i saw my mom mess with time." essek's internal monologue must have gone insane.

▪︎ marisha and robbie casually rping arts and crafts

▪︎ "you're kind of like his dad." "do not put that on me, please."

▪︎ ashley johnson doing the lords work. thank you. (essek thelyss you simp)

▪︎ wildMOTHER

▪︎ I KNEW THIS REMINDED ME OF SOMETHING. GETTING READY FOR A CON.

▪︎ YES ANIMATE OBJECT

▪︎ dorian's face when he's introduced to patê is giving: i have never wanted to be cyrus more in my life right now.

▪︎ emotional support faun and her damaged little halfling

▪︎ 17 strength let's go (beefy boy)

▪︎ laura bailey i am making the same face as you.

▪︎ WHO WAS MAKING IT RAIN. WHO.

▪︎ OH THIS BITCH. I HATE HER (delilah briarwood)

▪︎ nervously giggling

▪︎ travis willingham is a lover and instigator of chaos.

▪︎ liam o'brien giving advice. he loves this.

▪︎ i love this. orym, if anyone comes for you, get behind me. (he doesn't know this is laudna. he thinks he's getting fucked with in the middle of the night. HE CANNOT SEE FUCKING ANYTHING).

▪︎ YEE HAW INNER PARTY CONFLICT

that's all folks.

[kkwolf5]

I want Imogen and Laudna to realize that they’re just the tiniest bit toxic towards one another and I get why. Imogen has only ever had people leave her, so what makes Laudna any different than the rest. In Imogen’s mind , there will come a time when she realize what everyone else has and will leave her and so doesn’t want to do anything to upset that and so will let her kind of do things she doesn’t always agree with or even see as a good idea. If they don’t fight then she won’t leave. Laudna is the same, but different. As Marisha said, she is a teenager almost like a child who never grew up, like sure she might be 60 years old or whatever, but she hasn’t aged socially bc she hasn’t talked to people for most of them. She doesn’t see the bad behaviors that she’s doing or that Imogen’s doing. She can see it in others when they pressure Imogen, but her bubble is Imogen and maybe herself., not sure how much she actually realizes about herself. Honestly seeing how they evolve as people and then as a couple will be so interesting to watch

[bloodyshadow1]

something that I love about Beau is that on paper she is the most vanilla character of any pc in Critical role yet she's such a badass. Beau is for how awesome she is, the living embodiment of boring but practical.

Beau's race is human, no racial abilities but a free feat at level 1. Marisha picked prodigy instead of a flashy feat and got an expertise (athletics) an extra tool proficiency, and an extra language (deep speech).

Beau's class is monk which is pretty bland compared to other martial classes save for fighter. It has some cool abilities but honestly by late game the goal for the class seems to be survival vs damage which is strange for a martial class

Beau's subclass is Matt's homebrew, way of the Cobalt Soul, which is fine, but very practical. Early on extra proficiencies in skills that don't really affect most monks since they're all int based, a zone of truth that has good roleplay utility but not much in combat, and the ability to find out a creatures weakness with flurry of blows, which is good but for most of a campaign you'll only be dealing bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing, if you're a cobalt soul monk. Later on you get an ability to let you buy an extra reaction, the ability to hit on creatures that miss you with their attacks. Even their capstone ability at level 20 leaves an enemy weak to one type of an attack, which makes you a great support for a martial class. It's probably one of the plainest subclasses, all substance no flash.

Even her items are practical and the only source of magic that she has. The 4 main magical items she is known for is her belaborer a +2 staff which as an action has a pushing ability. Her circlet of intellect that boosts her int to 19. Her bracers of defense which is a great item for monks since it boost their already high ac. And finally, her maelstrom gauntlets that boosts her range 20 ft, has a +1 to attacks and damage when activated, and do lightning damage instead of bludgeoning the flashiest thing she owns.

Other than that, Beau is no magic at all, a normal human in a dnd world, who fights the same monsters and magic users as the rest of her friends with her bare hands and a staff that's good for hitting. Boring but Practical on paper, but the way Marisha plays her, she's the Nein's MVP in a lot of fights just being herself. Like her subclass, she's not very flashy compared to the rest of the Nein that all have some form of magic, but she's a lot of substance and keeps up with her mighty party

[agarthanguide]

Hi!! I wanted you to know how deeply I love how you rendered the embroidery on Laudna's top. The design itself is gorgeous- but also, in a lot of places I can make out what direction it looks like the threads are going. Which is just incredible. I could wax lyrical on that bottom flower.

I'd love to hear anything you care to share on the floral design- but if not just know that I AM obsessed with it and I WILL be hand embroidering it at some point. Probably sooner rather than later

Hey thank you for the kind words. I’m glad that the embroidery effect worked! I had tried it out a little on Deni$e’s pants, but I was honestly do intimidated to try it on Laudna’s stays omg.

I drew maybe 5 or 6 different floral patterns on various bodices for Marisha, but I think this look stuck because it has a thematic connection to Laudna’s spell Wither and Bloom.

I took inspiration from the Dutch Masters, specifically Willem Van Aelst. There was this 17th century fashion for still life paintings in which the subject are growing and dying on the same canvas, so as your eye moves through the painting you can imagine the growth, flourishing, and inevitable death of the flowers.

I’ve always been totally entranced by that notion. The leaves have these graphic, gnarled shapes, the tulips look like shreds of raw meat with their broken shards of color, petals threatening to fall to the table. It’s all so ALIVE even while the stems lose their strength and collapse under the weight of the blooms.

See also- Egon Schiele’s sunflower painting, which looks to me like… forgive the brutality, here… it looks like chronic illness. Or suicidal ideation (I’m not comparing the two). I just mean that it looks like something that wants to live. It looks like it’s simultaneously growing and dying even as we try to pin it to the wall and stop it moving.

Yeah so anyway. Wither and Bloom.

[pocketgalaxies]

hi! seeing you during all this ep95 mess has been a breath of fresh air. you seem to have a really firm grasp of canon so I wanted to ask what you think of the recent discord message from Liam where he says Orym didn't know that Laudna was under Delilah's influence when she killed Bor'dor? I watched the clip from 4SD, & it's pretty clear that Liam says Orym understood Laudna was opening the door for Delilah when he encouraged her to kill Bor'dor & even says "we'll need that." But the Discord message seems to walk that back. It's been super frustrating being accused of vilifying Orym or infantilizing Laudna for repeating what Liam himself said. I just don't really know how to reconcile these two statements from Liam & it has me a bit confused on Orym's character.

hi anon, thank you!

this turned into a much longer one than i was expecting dfksjdkfs

so last week i posted this Really Long Ask about the whole discussion, if you want to take a look. but i intentionally didn't bring up liam's discord message because you're right! it seemed contradictory to something that was stated in the past, which was confusing

honestly i think the most realistic answer is that liam probably didn't mean for what he said on 4SD to be understood as such a strong and maybe even polarizing character choice. i think a lot of us heard it as "orym sees delilah as a useful/necessary asset that outweighs what might happen to laudna afterward." particularly because he framed it as something that made the whole situation "even creepier," and during that same convo, marisha was emphasizing the psychological impact that killing bor'dor had on laudna. it's a strong stance and it reflects what orym is doing to himself (handing his endgame over to the questionably fickle nana morri to increase their chances of success against ludinus)

but i suppose liam's clarification suggests that he meant it in a softer, more practically level-headed way, like "orym knew he couldn't do a whole lot about delilah's return but he also thought it could have benefits," or something along those lines. they're obviously two hugely different interpretations with pretty big implications on how we understand orym's relationship with laudna

i'm not a connoisseur of orym's character by ANY means so i can't confidently tell you what the change might mean from a narrative perspective, but i personally still prefer the former stronger stance. because i think it raises interesting questions about how orym views his own place in this war and whether or not it's valid for him to (intentionally or subconsciously) project that placement onto the other party members. is it okay for orym to expect the same level of personal sacrifice from laudna, or imogen with predathos (a whole separate can of worms), or anyone else? is it safe? etc etc. but maybe liam doesn't want to go in that direction, or maybe he does but just not in the way we expect, i don't know! only time will tell!

also regardless of what he meant, i think it's important to acknowledge that it's really easy and completely understandable to feel like he was walking something back. that episode of 4SD was almost a whole year ago! many of us built that statement into our perception and understanding of orym's character for a long time, so it's totally valid to go "wait what the fuck???" when liam suddenly pops into the discord to say that's not what he meant. those feelings are valid and real! especially when discourse can already make you question your own intelligence and your personal interpretations of a story, having that pillar, as big or small as it might've been in your mind, knocked over can be really jarring. you are very much not alone in that, and it's okay!!

[sonicskullsalt]

Matt as Keyleth: "... see who I can convince to come out of retirement. "

Marisha:

honestly same

[utilitycaster]

Marisha has now twice (on 4SD and in the Fireside on Monday) said that she thinks perhaps that perhaps the relationship between Imogen and Laudna might not end happily, or that they might be better as friends, and honestly I really respect her for being willing to entertain that, whether or not it comes to fruition.

The discussion of Delilah as akin in some ways to an addiction that was under control until it wasn't feels very real and applicable here, and that's something that causes people, even people who love each other dearly, to break up in real life. The same goes for other interpretations of Delilah or Laudna; low-self worth is also something that can be a relationship ender, even if one's partner doesn't agree, just because it's hard to be a supportive partner if you don't like yourself. The frequent comparisons to past Laura Bailey Character partners shed some light as well, because those relationships occurred only after the darker forces involved were less of an immediate threat and the characters involved - on both sides - had developed a stronger sense of their own worthiness of love before entering into a relationship. Indeed, they all hesitated beyond that point and acted after others had provided some encouragement. I don't think every relationship must follow the same pattern, obviously, but I think moving too quickly when one isn't ready can also, itself, be a reason for a relationship to ultimately not work out.

I think Marisha has often been willing to dive into some of the more complicated aspects of interpersonal dynamics in game, including her stated enjoyment of conflict, and that's always been one of her strengths. I've had a lot of well-documented frustrations with Laudna in the past, so it's great to see that strength come to the forefront again at the same time as the Delilah plot is finally coming through. Together, those have addressed the majority of my criticisms, and I'm really excited to see her take those big swings.

[renatogpadilla]

THOUGHTS ON CR3E92 IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER:

- FIRST EVER CR CROSSOVER EPISODE?!

LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

- Dariax said "This Flute doesn't play itself anymore." Doriax canon offscreen?

- "After all the handjobs, this is what we mean to you?!" Damn... I mean, I'm glad Opal and Cyrus found a way to relieve stress, Gods know they're both stressed, but damn.

- Ending the episode on Opal Twice-Crowned hitting phase 2 of the boss fight was EVIL!

I love it, @quiddie ! I feel like when this gets animated in a decade or so, we'll get this fight and the fight with Otohan Thull overlayed one on top of the other for a Season Finale or something!

- Raven Queen going two for two on Rogues turned Paladin! Which is great, but now I have to replan Morrighan's moveset for that imaginary Critical Role fighting game that only exists in my head (somebody ask me about it please, I NEED to talk about it!) but at least she gets some Smite options out of the Bunny Hop command jump!

- Dariax is a Bard now too! That's honestly so perfect for Matt! And the fact that both Sorcerers and Bards are Charisma Casters makes me feel like the Synergies are gonna be great!

- Oh, Dorian, wonderful blue king... That's a lot of strength that your Dice will never agree to let you use for anything cool. I missed you SO MUCH!

- Speaking of that imaginary CR fighting game, this just solidified Opal as a puppet character. The tag combos with Ted would be WILD! Think Kenshi from MK1!

- Fy'ra Rai... Just... FY'RA RAI! Gods, I've missed Anjali at the table! Her memory with Opal, her tug-of-war with her thoughts about her sister... THE LAVA WHIP! Nothing sexier than Monks! Except a pissed off Wizard or Druid.

- On the other side of the table, I LOVE the moment the girls all collectively remembered they had to break the news to Frida... Oh, that's gonna hurt BAD!

- Anyone else noticed that Ashton is BURNT OUT and laying on the ground after his Titan form wears off, but Fearne just says she's really tired and just KEEPS GOING? Ashton is DONE for now, but Fearne needs to keep moving forward... Fuck, I love these two.

- Orym... Just... Orym. If you take a level in Barbarian after this, I wouldn't blame you.

- Side-Note: This means Dorian DID get Orym's last message before they went to the moon! He just didn't/couldn't answer! Which means, through the static and everything, Dorian COULD hear Orym! And now he's probably gonna get this message once the battle is over... Jesus, if they get to Zephra and Keyleth went to the Lodge next to the lake that's gonna be a problem...

- Side-Note Side-Note: Anyone else hoping to GOD that Allura called the Nein to help? Cause Beau and Caleb were involved, but now it feels like an "All Hands on Deck" situation, and we could use Kingsley's small army of pirates right about now...

- So much happened this episode between the grieving and the flashbacks and the rolling for handjobs that I didn't have time to process the splinter cell of Xhorhasians that split their soul in twain until I woke up... Opal may have forgotten, but maybe Ted hasn't? Though if they're the same person, maybe they both forgot...

- Aabria, the corrupting of the Memories was FOUL, I LOVE IT!!!

- Somebody needs to tell Essek about the soul-splitters. In fact, let's get to that while we deal with Ashton too!

- IF OPAL DIES, AMY CAN COME OVER AS DENI$E! Like, I don't WANT her to die, but Westruun isn't that far... 👀

- I just realized this is the first ever FULL episode of CR without Sam at the table... Fuck, man, when it hurts it hurts. Glad Marisha brought back the fan.

"Forgot the Consonants?" "No Letters." OUCH, MISS RAY, WHAT THE FUCK?!

- Raven Queen Paladins hasting themselves first thing in the fight. Vax is back, and he's a Bunny Girl now!

- I like that the Crownkeepers are a two-way Overwatch reunion (McCree Cassidy and Symmetra) and a three-way Persona 5 reunion (Yusuke, Ann Futaba and Akechi).

- Everything was so fucked this episode that everything with Liliana got knocked to the background for me, THAT'S how good it was!

- The SECOND Evoroa said Ludinos was on Exandria I knew EXACTLY where he would be! Now we HAVE to get the Nein involved, right? Unless the bastard makes the city float again...

I cannot WAIT for the next episode! And if Sam brings a new character when all the groups are together, it would be SPECTACULAR! I'm guessing he's going to play one of the moon races, because that just sounds cool... Either that or Tary!

[sicklyseraphnsuch]

Honestly, Im a little disappointed that it wasn't messier. Im disappointed that there wasnt more shouting. That Lauda was providing most of the pushing and everyone else was just kinda... rolling over? I wanted an argument that would have brought the roof down on them 🙄

the reason theres so much constant tension in this party is that they all havent tried hard enough to punch each other in the face - like really smash.

to be totally serious tho, remember when Chetney told Ashton to gtfo and thats what broke the tension? someone finally getting the guts to be mean and to push hard on someone else's reckless bullshit?

the fact that theres no such equivalent here? the fact that chetney hasnt intervened on that level? thats whats keeping this tension.

on one hand, the way some of the party treat laudna is so fucking patronizing, its actively painful - Ashton whispering to Laudna for an apology? wtf? the way they acted like she was a misbehaving toddler set my teeth on edge. Then Imogen... Buddy, pal, you just watched your mother regurgitate Ludinus's lies like they were stone cold facts and youre out here accepting the same thing from Laudna without a second glance. You know she has a problem! You know she's not the most reliable narrator! You know she fails insight checks against herself all the time!!!

Ashton and Imogen both needed to treat Laudna like a threat in that moment bc she attacked someone without provocation during a rest when they were trusting her to not do that and it was clearly premeditated because she covered herself in darkness. The fact that they dont demonstrates that neither are taking her capabilities seriously enough. The fact that they arent addressing the threat she presents - to others and herself - is allowing her to continue hurting herself and others.

Whereas, Fearne is complicit in it all because shes so conflict averse. She was never gonna be the one to hold Laudna over the fire.

Chetney and Orym would have. Orym was trying to but literally only Dorian backed him up. And Dorian doesnt know fuck about all. He joined them two days ago. Hes got no fucking clue whats happening!! Oryms the only one really pointing out the fact that he was attacked unprovoked

and sure laudna was aiming for the sheathe, but thats splitting hairs... i believe we removed targeting each armor piece somewhere in dnd 3.5 or something lol - if youre targeting a piece on someone, the usual call Matt makes is to give this a higher DC. Matt making Marisha roll arcana makes sense bc yes you can control wither and blooms "chosen target", but when the target is attached to something else, and moreover the target is a thing - not a creature like the spell says RAW... it makes sense that a failed arcana check would lead to that failure

for all intents and purposes, laudna was aiming for orym. she didnt mean to hurt him but again, shes operating under the influence (and yes I do mean that connotation). a lot of people do shit they dont mean under the influence. but they still gotta do the repairs when they come back to their senses. harm was still done. Orym attacking laudna bc he was hurt and blinded is also fucking reasonable. he didnt fucking know it was her in the first place.

for laudna to say that orym hurt her when she attacked him - that was grade A manipulation

and heres the thing too, when someone is acting under the influence, people usually call it out. they say stuff like "youre drunk" or "youre high" to acknowledge that hey, this isnt you but also this isnt acceptable either. no one breathed a fucking word about delilah until the very very end. they all treated laudna like she was in a reasonable state of mind, and she wasnt. they werent meeting her where she was at and so they failed to reach her

now to orym... did they all agree that the sword was oryms? bc that was a discussion they did not have... chetney made a one off comment about how theyll need permission for it (possibly implying orym but never explicitly stated)... was the idea that orym gets it because he got hurt first? that wouldve been stupid for sure

to dorian's point, hey its just a sword. swords hurt people. what youre gonna look at every sword with magic geometry and expect to see it cuddling puppies? swords are made to hurt. even when its defending. it can parry but if you need a shield get a shield. sure, this was otohan's sword but the sword is not sentient (laudna girl you need to insight check your patron pls). otohan hurt her not the sword. and to allow her to consume it was more leaning into her trauma - its not setting a good precedent for future healthy coping mechanisms basically

that said, dorian cant just say that without acknowledging the depth of laudnas trauma. the sword actively triggered her. this does reek of a PTSD episode where she went running to a soothing influence. to simply say its just a sword without paying respect to laudna's hurt is also incredibly dismissive - well aimed as it was.

chetney is sus. thats it. thats the take. i dont believe this old man when he said he trusts laudna. i think hes plotting

tl;dr - everyone tried to help laudna, no one tried to stop her which might be the only way to help her now. she needs someone to hold her back and call out when shes under the influence again.

[immult]

"i think we should stop trying to distinguish between the two of us"

"even if it means the end of me. which honestly, maybe it should."

"i see her as a tool" "i'm afraid she sees you the same way laudna" "then perhaps that means we're aligned."

BANGER AFTER BANGER AFTER BANGER. MARISHA RAYYYYYYY. LAUDNAAAAAAAAAA.