#i was under the impression these two were a really popular ship

[tadpoless4]

These two deserve the world (and more fanart /lh)

[ineffable-opinions]

"Top", "Bottom" Discussion in Unknown ep. 12

The Office Gossip Scene

[Edited on 10th May; changes under clarification headings]

Now that the Unknown has resurrected the conversation about gong shou, let’s talk about it. The what and the why, so to say. Thank you @1serotonindeficientgirl (whose post inspired mine).

I welcome critiques and corrections. So, please feel free to do so.

Scenes and subtitles

The discussion in the episode starts with Wei Qian’s staff gossiping about his relationship with Wei ZhiYuan. One of the staff members comments that Wei Qian is like a little lamb (小绵羊) when it comes to his little brother:

只要遇到他弟弟 就像小绵羊

Someone replies with the following idiom:

羊入虎口

(Literally: “a sheep enters a tiger's mouth”)

It means to enter a dangerous situation where one will certainly suffer [Source: Wiktionary].

The female employee (who witnessed their kiss) asks San Pang:

三胖哥谁是羊谁是虎啊 - Who is the lamb (羊; sheep) and who is the tiger (虎)?

This has some employees confused and they ask for an explanation. They receive the following reply:

就是攻跟受的差别啊 – [it means] between them, who is gong and who is shou?

One of the staff members repeats the unfamiliar terms:

攻受 – gong shou

and the fu-nu (腐女; fujoshi) offers an explanation:

好啦姊姊教你们 – let this elder sis explain

老虎看到羊会 – the tiger upon seeing the lamb…

Before she can complete her explanation, Wei Qian moves into the scene accompanied by the growl of a big cat. The gossipers disband.

In the end our fu-nu expresses their support for Wei Qian’s relationship with Wei ZhiYuan. Before she runs off, she throws him the question:

你们谁是攻谁是受啦 – between the two of you, who is gong and who is shou?

In the next shot Wei Qian is alone. He flexes his muscles and comments:

很明显吧 - It's obvious, isn't it?

[END OF SCENE]

Everyone at that office seems pretty close. The staff calls Wei “Qian ge” 谦哥 (first name + brother) and not as “Mr. Wei” (as the English subtitles suggests). Looks like Lao Xiong (emphasis on Lao = old) is the only one who clearly disapproves of such gossipmongering.

Notice how the terms gong and shou were translated directly into top and bottom in English subtitles. While that’s technically correct, there’s some nuance missing.

While there are tongzhi (同志;queer) people who use the terms gong and shou, these are not the most popular terms for top and bottom in the tongzhi community. This series specifically uses the terms gong (攻) and shou (受). Why? We’ll get to that in a minute.

In a BL, being shou means that character is the bottom in that particular ship. That character could be top, bottom, versatile or neither in another ship. A character is a bottom (as we use the term in English) only when that character is an absolute shou (sou uke in Japanese). An absolute shou is invariably shou. No matter which ship he becomes part of and no matter who he is paired with, he will be the shou. Similar difference exists between the terms “top” and “gong”.

English subtitles use ‘top’ and ‘bottom’ from the get-go. There is no need to explain what those terms mean. But that’s not the case with gong shou – only 腐 (fu) people (BL fans) really knows what those terms really mean and thus warrants explanation.   

Clarification

[Edited. Thank you @abstractelysium and @wen-kexing-apologist for contributing to the conversation.]

As noted in the convo, Wei Qian is pretty ferocious in the office and is only gentle when it comes to Wei ZhiYuan. So, it is normal that gossiping irrespective of topic would end as soon as he arrives. Also, I think Wei Qian didn’t get what gong shou means other than allusion to tiger and lamb. The original language dialogues don’t make it clear that gong and shou means top and bottom (in a ship). [The English subs gives off that impression since gong and shou were simply translated.] Moreover, those terms are danmei literacies that has entered dictionaries but not necessarily public knowledge.

It is like an insider joke for fu-people made possible by Wei Qian’s ignorance. That wouldn’t have worked on Wei ZhiYuan who read danmei while growing up. That wouldn’t have worked if the fu nu (fujoshi) stuck around to explain what that means.

Usually in such conversations in BL, fu-people are shown to be mistaken: they either mess up the ship/dynamic (Love By Chance 1) or the character(s) in the ship deliberately trick them (Counter Attack). It is almost always played out with seme/gong’s approval in BL - not sure if that dynamic between fu-people & seme aka gong character ever appeared in any live-action dynamic. The trigger of this scene is Wei ZhiYuan’s deliberate choice of actions: PDA, kiss in the office right in front of a staff member.

BL literacies

BL is a media genre in itself with different sub-genres, genre conventions and classic works. It sure has a lot of overlap with other genres:

Romance as well as GL – they coevolved. They share mothers and other ancestors.

Queer – Is it really a genre? Even if one were to ignore queer as method in academia, it is still so complex.

Let me quote Taiwanese tongzhi author Chiang-Sheng Kuo:

… what exactly is queer literature? Is it queer literature if queer people like to read it, or is it only queer literature if there are queer characters in the books? Or is it an appendage of the queer movement? If a queer author writes a book without queer characters, does that represent a certain aspect of queer culture?

(You can find the whole interview here.)

Just as danmei (耽美; Chinese BL) has its roots in Japanese BL, so is gong (攻) and shou (受) from seme (攻め) uke (受け).

gong shou aka seme uke dynamics

Mother of BL, Mori Mari, didn’t come up with it, nor did her father Mori Ogai. Both she and her father, among the other dozen tanbi (耽美; same writing as danmei but different readings cause different languages, and different meanings cause different cultures) authors inherited it from authors before them who wrote on contemporaneous and historic Japanese male androphilia.

Spring Pastimes. Miyagawa Isshō, c. 1750 | seme uke dynamics in nanshoku pre-dates BL by hundreds of years.

While there is no dearth of riba (versatile) characters in BL, seme uke dynamics is:

a genre specialty. There are similar words in use in GL as well.

an enduring connection to the past of where BL was born.

remnants of a particular model of queerness; an alternative to LGBTQIA+ form of queerness.

What’s there in the scene

There is something hidden in the euphemistic explanation. On the face of it tiger devouring a lamb would be allusion to tiger gong devouring (topping) lamb shou.

But then tiger is a big cat and lamb is a herbivore. Neko (ネコ), the Japanese queer term for “bottom” means cat (etymology is obscure with this one). The term herbivore (草食) when used to describe a man means that man is masculine in a non-hegemonic way. In the series, Wei Qian embodies the hegemonic masculinity while Wei ZhiYuan is a quintessential grass-eater.

So, the description of lamb being devoured by a tiger would not be associated as simply as with the terms gong and shou especially when it comes from Taiwan which has been historically more connected to Japanese BL than any other BL producers (Sinophone or otherwise). This connection was highlighted during 魏之远 Wei ZhiYuan's naming scene where Le Ge used the borrowed Japanese possessive particle (の; no).

の = 之 (zhī)

The big cat sound effect for Wei Qian in particular adds to this. Wei Qian’s character is best described as a queen shou.

女王受 Queen shou: A shou who is as proud as a queen, and would devour gong. (source)

Wei Qian and Wei ZhiYuan’s ship is best described by Priest (the author of Da Ge, source novel of Unknown):

经典款毒舌女王和屁颠屁颠的忠犬组合 – paring of a classic, sharp-tongued queen and a tail-wagging loyal dog.

BL literacies & Affective learning

BL kind of has its own language (with words like gong shou), which fans use to share ideas and feelings. This secret language is what academics call ‘literacies.’ BL fans are all in on this and have their own ‘ways of behaving, interacting, valuing, thinking, believing, speaking, and often reading and writing’. Through ‘various visual, conceptual and textual literacies’, BL fans weave ‘an intertextual database of narrative and visual tropes which readers draw upon to interpret BL’. BL literacies is learnt through ‘affective hermeneutics – a set way of gaining knowledge through feelings.’ Audience learn BL literacies from BL works ‘which eventually leads to their active engagement’ with other BL fans. (source; Kristine Michelle L. Santos explains it in the context of Japanese BL but it applies to all BL media irrespective of where it is from.)

That scene in Unknown was set up to familiarize audience with BL literacies – not only those specific words but also the larger practice of imagining character pairing and indulging in that imagination. This is evident from the overall jubilant tone of the scene and the camera work. It is a celebration of moe. That is why we have a character who is not only a fu-nu but also willing to be openly fu-nu in that setting, sharing BL literacies and her colleagues interested to learn. 

For other examples, check out Thomas Baudinette’s book Boys Love Media in Thailand: Celebrity, Fans, and Transnational Asian Queer Popular Culture. He has a chapter dedicated to explaining how genre conventions were taught to the early audience of Thai BL through similar scenes.

Why must they do this? Why break the fourth wall like this? To get more people interested in the intricacies of BL and to get them to participate in the culture. BL is created by fu-people and BL literacies are their tools and source of joy. BL must draw in more people to keep BL culture going. Commercialized BL we have today is the result of an affective culture formed over the years. It is built on years of labor of authors and their audience. I mean, look at the Unknown. This BL employs the well-developed Loyal Dog gong x Queen shou dynamics. Apart from that which the series took from the novel, it also drew upon other common BL beats to tease the relationship between Dr. Lin and his senior.  

Teaching BL literacies is political. When Mainland Chinese government gets dangai productions to change names and relationships of characters (among other things), it is to prevent live-action audience from discovering BL as a genre with it disruptive potential. It is not only character's names and relationships that are changed. There are entire sub-genres of danmei (such as 高干) that got wiped out by censorship.

When a Taiwanese BL not only retains the character names & relationships and shows relatively explicit intimate scenes but also actively promotes BL literacies, it is an act of resistance. Discussion of gong shou, being genre specialty, manages to do so. Interestingly, they are doing it in an adaptation of a novel by Priest who has a particular reputation with self-censorship. That scene is not part of the source novel.

Heterosexual & gong shou

Association of bottom with the feminine (female or otherwise) has its roots in medicalization (and pathologization) of homosexuality in the west (such as through theories by scientists and doctors like Richard von Krafft-Ebing). This “knowledge” subsequently spread across the globe and was adopted to varying degrees and forms.

Moreover, the terms gong and shou applies to heterosexual pairing too.

BG (boy girl) ships have male gong and female shou

GB (girl boy) ships have female gong and male shou. [If this is interesting unfamiliar territory, check out the series Dong Lan Xue (2023).]

Moreover, if one is willing to look beyond LGBTQIA+ form of queerness (which is born and brought up in America), one can see other queer possibilities. For example, Kothi-Panthi queerness in South Asia which is characterized by explicit presentation of top bottom dynamics. There are very many similar forms of queerness in other parts of Global South.

In many cultures, sexuality doesn’t inform identity but sexual preference does. That’s why is you are to ask a kothi-panthi couple which one of you is the bottom, the kothi would tell you without hesitation: “I am.” Might even asked you in turn, “Couldn’t you tell?” For them, sexual preference (being kothi) rather than sexual orientation takes center stage. This is the inverse of how LGBTQIA+ form of queerness looks at it. While LGBTQIA+ model of queerness focuses on sexual orientation (being pan, ace, gay, etc.) as something that can be freely discussed but sexual preference (top, bottom, versatile, side, etc.) is considered private.

*Just to be clear, “kothi” is a term of self-identification. It means that the person is a bottom. Panthi is not self-identification. That’s how kothi address the men who top them. 

While thanks to westernization LGBTQIA+ form of queerness enjoys more visibility, I think it is better to consider it as one type of queerness rather than the only model of queerness. Gong shou dynamics doesn’t fit into LGBTQIA+ form of queerness because it comes from another, much-older nanshoku model of queerness that made its way into Japan from China, hundreds of years ago. Friction between different models of queerness is common where ever they interact. In 1970s, Japan was witness to public debates between a younger, westernized Japanese queer activist Itō Satoru and other Japanese queer activists such as Fushimi Noriaki and Tōgō Ken who were rooted in indigenous tradition of male-male sexuality.

[Itō Satoru’s] insistence on the necessity of adopting western models of gay identity and coming out have brought him into conflict with other activists such as Fushimi Noriaki and veteran campaigner Tōgō Ken.

Interpretation and Orientalism: Outing Japan's Sexual Minorities to the English-Speaking World by Mark McLelland

Clarification

[Edited. Thank you @wen-kexing-apologist for contributing to the conversation.]

Under the LGBTQ+ model of queerness, it maybe considered inappropriate to have conversation about “top” “bottom”, especially in the office, going as far as to ask that to Qian ge. From that perspective, the BL audience (especially those who are unfamiliar with the terms gong and shou) are fair in their assessment of that scene being out of place or outright offensive.

I think things might have been a bit different if the subtitles retained the terms gong shou instead of “top” “bottom” since they aren’t exactly the same thing. That would have had the desired effect (of introducing BL literacies - gong shou in the context of 强强 (strong gong x strong shou) pairing) without unintended consequence.

What is considered rude under the LGBTQ+ framework is an essential part of fu culture. It is like addressing Wei Qian as just Qian – that could be considered rude in the original language but pretty normal in English. Different cultures, different norms, so to speak. It is only polite to be mindful of the cultural differences and avoid discussing about sexual preference where it is considered inappropriate.

As for the normalization of fu culture (especially discussions of gong shou), in my opinion the didactic scope of Unknown is undermined by the very fact that it is primarily a gǔkē danmei (via adoption (收养)) with tongyangxi vibes (highlighted multiple times by San Pang in the novel) associated with Wei ZhiYuan.

Somehow fu-culture gets judged by those who consume products of that culture. Everyone is happy with fu-cultural products as long as fu-people don't discuss who is gong and who is shou.

Why are fu-culture and BL always judged based on a culturally alien lgbtq+ form of queerness? Why must BL be arm-twisted to fit into norms of lgbtq+ form of queerness just because that is the most mainstream form of queerness?

-

That’s not much a conclusion but this is already so long. I really hope it gives you something to think about.

If you are interested, here's more.

[zenkindoflove]

Fandom Shipping Terminology 101: ACOTAR edition

Hi! So I decided to put a little resource together for the ACOTAR fandom. Since many people join the SJM/ACOTAR fandom and have never been in fandom before, they encounter a lot of fandom terminology that they are not quite sure what it means or have seen others use it incorrectly so they get a false impression of the meaning of the word. So I put this together, including examples from the fandom, so that people can use it as a reference to learn more about what these terms mean and when they're appropriate to use. This list is focused on words related to shipping.

Tldr definitions (note: these are definitions that I wrote based on my own experiences/research on fanlore. These are always up for interpretation and meaning and nuance change over time and depend on fandom context)

Canon ship - a relationship where the characters have romantic interactions in canon

Fanon ship - a relationship where in canon the characters are platonic but the fandom has accepted as a ship with romantic undertones, canonical potential, or has become so popular within a fandom it's has surpassed the need/desire for canon

Crackship - a pairing of two characters where the idea of them together is strange or funny depending on the circumstances. Often in these ships, the characters have little or even no interactions in canon

Rare pair - agnostic to fanon or canon status. A rare pair simply means the fandom does not make a lot of fan content for it.

End-game - This is a canon ship that is together by the end of a series.

Slash ship - Fanon ships that feature queer relationships. M/M usually takes on the term slash and F/F has the term femslash.

OTP - Stands for One True Pair. This is a ship that a shipper considers to be the most important one that they love in a fandom.

NOTP - anti-OTP, or a ship that a shipper detests/is squicked out by

Multishipping - the act of shipping a character with multiple other characters.

For more context and thorough examples read more under the cut 

First, what the heck is a ship?

The origins of shipping and becoming obsessed with fictional relationships predate our modern understanding of fandom. Modern fandom roots can be traced as early as Star Trek: The Original Series. But the terminology of calling a couple you like a ship or the act of obsessing over fictional (and sometimes non fictional) couples "shipping" has its origins in the X-Files fandom. While ACOTAR is a romance, many fandoms do not have romance as a central element of its plot, and yet, shippers find a way. That's exactly what happened for the fans of Mulder/Scully. Those who wanted them to be in a romantic relationship were called "relationshippers" which then got shortened to "shippers". The verb "to ship" would appear later from this origin.

The way to think about "what is a ship" though is really based on do people think up romantic scenarios with these two characters? If yes, then you have a ship. And in ACOTAR, oh baby, are there MANY, MANY SHIPS.

Canon vs. Fanon ships

Where does a canon ship end and a fanon one begin? Now that, my friends, is not as clear cut as you might think.

I think this discussion is very important for the ACOTAR fandom because of the state of the ship war currently. Often, there is back and forth about which ship is canon or fanon (and *eye twitch* people throwing around crackship as a derogatory term to de-legitimize a ship which makes me wanna punch shit).

I'm gonna burst everyone's bubbles and say, I personally think Elriel, Elucien, and Gwynriel are all CANON ships.

Why? Well, that's the part that is up for interpretations my friends. What is deemed canonical romantic interactions? That is where a lot of lines can become blurry and if you have ever shipped a fanon ship before - you KNOW what I mean by that. Is it a charged glance? A caress of a hand that lingered too long? Is it a shared kiss? Or do the characters have to explicitly declare "I'm yours and you're mine"?

I've shipped a lot of kinds of ships. Canon. Fanon. Canon that had its end-game blown up. You name it, I've shipped it. And to me, a canon ship is anytime the writer of the canon is putting characters in a romantic situation, regardless if they end up together or not by the end of the series. If they wanted you to feel butterflies and think "could they?", and you felt butterflies, well my friends, you're responding to canon romance. And we've seen evidence of all three ships having those moments.

But, what does that mean for fanon ships? I have shipped a fanon couple where I got butterflies from their canonical scenes together. I've read into their moments and thought "wow, that was romantically charged". I think this is where the lines of canon and fanon are blurred. Because what this comes down to is, did the author intend this? Or am I seeing more into an interaction because I like it? Most fanon ships do hinge a lot of their interest in said ship because of what happens in canon. But, often times, the authors of said content are not necessarily wanting you to take away from their writing that these two characters are interested in each other romantically. You just can't help it. You see it. You see the potential, and you want it to go there so you see more of it the more you look.

Sometimes fanon ships are very clear that the canon is not even hinting at these two characters together romantically. And that is perfectly fine. To me, a fanon ship is a ship that has become so ingrained in the fandom community that the fandom thinks of these two together romantically. That it doesn't really matter anymore what the canon says or doesn't. The fandom has created this relationship and it lives and breathes within what the fandom builds for it. Azris is a perfect example of a fanon ship in ACOTAR. The canon interactions between Azriel and Eris are sparse and platonic in nature, yet the fandom itself has created a whole fanon around them with a large enough community that as soon as you enter the ACOTAR fandom, you immediately know this ship exists.

Rare pairs and Crackships

These two terms are often used interchangeably as if they are synonyms. Now, a rare pair can be a crackship but not all rare ships are crackships and vice versa.

Generally, a rare pair is devoid of canon or fanon connotations. A rare pair is a ship that receives little attention from fans and has few associated fanworks. So, a rare pair could be a fanon couple that few people think about romantically. For example, Emerie and Gwyn have a lot of interactions in canon. I would not think shipping them together to be a crackship because I mean, they're friends, they like each other, they read smut together. There are a lot of scenarios one could imagine them falling in love. But they have a whopping 12 fanfics under their tag in AO3. Therefore, they are a rare pair but not necessarily a crackship.

A rare pair can also be a canon ship. For example, Thesan and his unnamed lover are canon. However, when you look up their relationship tag on AO3, there are 23 works and most do not appear to be focused on them.

I also have seen people use rare pair for very popular ships (like Azris) when they mean fanon. Again, rare pair is really an indication of "how much fan content can you find for this" not necessarily are they canon.

Crackships really were birthed from the intention of putting two characters together "4 da lulz" to bring back early 2000s internet lingo. Crack shipping is usually a pairing that the idea of them together is a little absurd but also fun. Beron/Tamlin is a quintessential crackship example, especially why it came to be (but we will avoid getting into all the origins of that). There is no real reason to think Beron or Tamlin would ever have a romantic interaction and thinking about it makes you laugh. Crackships can sometimes turn into fanon ships. This is another example where the lines do get blurry. But really, crackshipping is about intention and the use of absurdism within fan creation.

I also want to say, often what I see in the Elucien v. Elriel and Elriel v. Gwynriel ships wars is the use of crackship in a derogatory way, and thinking that if one of these ships does not become end-game, therefore, it proves the other was a crackship. Simply put - no. That's not how it works.

End-game

Related to the above point, I think often where the ACOTAR ship wars really derail themselves, is conflating fanon/canon/endgame with each other. I don't see people often using the term end-game, when really, it would help so much with the judgmental and strange ship policing that this fandom loves to do. Specifically, this fandom has a hard time talking about the value within shipping fanon, or shipping the blurriness between fanon and canon for any characters that do not have end-game potential. ACOTAR is not a complete series. Therefore, in a strict definition, no couples are end-game. However, given the genre, there are several couples who are clearly going to be end-game. And really, what I think the ship war community needs in their discourse, is to start using the term end-game when they want to discuss the outcome of Elucien, Elriel, or Gwynriel having a canonical Happily Ever After. The reason being is that you can use end-game, and not insult another ship. End-game is simply a fact. There is no hierarchy involved in what ship is best or not. Because ships can be beloved whether they're canon or fanon or canon who did not end up together. And they all can have very valid reasons why people ship them despite not achieving end-game.

I also urge the ACOTAR fandom to realize that end-game is not the end of YOUR experience of your ship. Your ship lives on despite what the canon may or may not give you. Even if you ship a canon ship that does not achieve end-game, you can create those fanon end-games for yourself. Many popular ships end up being popular because of the effect of that ship not achieving end-game. And while I am using the prime-ship war as examples within this post, I've seen other microshipwars popping up within the fandom as well. So, I'm not trying to pick on this specific set of conflicts, it's just the one I see most prominently.

OTP vs NOTP

I think the ACOTAR fandom could also really benefit from adopting this terminology.

The point of declaring OTPs and NOTPs is a way for you to signal to others in your fandom, "This is how much I care about this ship. Whether I love it it or hate it. Tread carefully". These terms are not meant to say one ship is better than the other from a moral standpoint. Instead, it's to indicate to others that you have a strong preference. You're going to love your OTPs regardless of what arguments others throw at you to convince you to not love them. You will probably be very annoyed by your NOTPs regardless of what others try to do to convince you that they're actually cute/sexy/hot/perfect for each other. And what the ACOTAR fandom could benefit from, from readopting OTP/NOTP language, is having a common understanding where different shipping communities boundaries are and how they can better utilize those boundaries to prevent constant fighting. Now, ship wars are inevitable because of how people see their OTPs and NOTPs, but general rule of thumb is - don't engage with your NOTP's content for your own mental sanity.

Multishipping

Multishipping can be used in many ways. Some people use it to say, hey I'm in this fandom, and I ship a lot of couples. But the origins of multishipping as a term, comes from ship war discourse in other fandoms. Multishippers generally are people who ship one character with multiple other characters. For example, if you ship Elain/Lucien, Elain/Azriel, Elain/Gwyn, Elain/Tamlin, etc etc etc, you are a multishipper. I generally would not consider someone a multishipper if all of their ships do not cross streams. It just sort of means that you ship a lot of couples. Which tends to be normal for romance series with a lot of couples. Maybe not a single of those couples is your true OTP, and that's what you mean by saying you're a multishipper. And that's okay. I think though that multishipping generally in other fan spaces is a marker of you telling others that you don't draw harsh lines with who you see characters with. I often see multishippers not declaring NOTPs. It's kind of a state of how you go about shipping often. I, for one, identify as an OTP shipper. I've never really multishipped. But I also have a very strict standard of what I call my "ships". Anyways, this is to say, this term has a lot of uses. And sometimes it can be confusing which of these uses a person means when they say it.

Slash shipping 

I've seen over the years that slash as a terminology has fallen out of favor. In the past, slash shipping was the pinnacle of shipping in fandoms. The term slash comes from the first modern fanon ship, Kirk/Spock, where the / between their names, which we now all know and use to indicate a romantic pairing (note: & is used to indicate a platonic interaction between characters), exists because the Kirk/Spock shipping community really were the originators of shipping communities creating fan content and sharing it in with each other in a massive way. In general slash (and femslash) is an important modifier of shipping because it explicitly tells you that this is a queer ship which often were not mainstream and considered canon until more recently. With the rise of canonical queer ships, I think the subversiveness of shipping queer couples has lost it's edge, therefore slash is not needed as much anymore to directly state the nature of your ship.

I wanted to keep this in the post though, because I think it's incredibly important history for ALL ACOTAR fans to understand. Shipping queer couples, and especially shipping FANON queer couples, has always been the backbone of fandom. Kirk/Spock walked so Destiel could fly. These are all queer ships that have strong fanon roots (and that fanon has had impacts on their canon) and have shaped fandom and your concept of shipping and romance tropes in inextricable ways. You don't have / without Kirk/Spock. You don't have Omegaverse, without gay shipping within the Supernatural fandom. And I wanted to make this point because this fandom has a strong het (heterosexual) ship bias. Which is okay. It's a romance series with a lot of heterosexual canon couples. But, I think because of that, many people are not entering this fandom with an understanding that people shipping queer fanon couples have been the ones who were the originators of many fandom terms that we have come to know and use today.

Conclusion:

I hope you all found this informative and that you can take away something from this post that can help you have better interactions and ability to communicate with others in this fandom. Again, I want to stress, that this is heavily influenced by my own 25 years of experience being in fandoms. And I haven't seen it all. Others will have different interpretations of these terms and experiences using these terms. So, feel free to add on anything that you think would be helpful to those in the ACOTAR community to better understand how to "ship and let ship". I do think that ship war are inevitable and not necessarily a bad thing. But using the right terms can help you engage in a more respectful way within ship war discourse.

[rainbowsky]

Hello Rainbowsky,

I know, hiking CPN can be washed by saying WYB went to Inner Mongolia to see the shooting location for his upcoming movie and may be went on hiking when he had free time.

But, WYB who never posts more than 1 personal picture in an entire year, decided to post his hiking pictures even when the picture location matches with the shooting location of XZ and there were heavy rumours of him visiting XZ.

Also, he went to Japan and other places for seeing shooting location but he did not post pictures from there. People are also saying that if it was for movie he will not spoil the location before movie releases.

Rainbowsky, what do you think?

Hi Anon,

It's true that there are people trying to wash this whole Inner Mongolia thing. It just goes with the territory. In fact, the bigger and stronger the CPN, the harder people work to wash it.

However.

Fake, fan fiction, CPN.

It's not really washable. In part because there's not enough information available to independently verify or debunk anything, sure, but also for all the reasons everyone's been discussing lately.

The location

DD's filming locations are not known at this point. Somehow (and I can't possibly express how thoroughly impressed I am by this) the film set has been so totally locked down that nothing has leaked from it, to the degree that no one even knows for sure that the project is currently filming, or where. So people claiming he was there for filming... that's speculation.

The film synopsis solos are relying on to wash this CPN talks about the character we'd presume to be DD's (it's the only young man mentioned) being from "the heart of" the Great Khinogan Mountains.

The Wulanhada volcano park that DD was photographed by is not anywhere near that area.

We don't know exactly where GG is filming so we can't get too carried away about it, but it's pretty disingenuous for people to claim DD was there for filming when it's not anywhere near where his character is supposed to be from, and the terrain around the volcano park is totally different from the terrain where DD's character is from (would probably not make a good stand-in location for that region).

Wulanhada volcano park, left - Great Khinogan Mountains, right

Of course it's not impossible that he was there for filming, but given what little we know (the same information solos are trying to use to wash this), it seems unlikely.

It's also possible he went there directly from Beijing, but that's a 5 hour drive at minimum, so wouldn't likely have been a day trip. And DD isn't going to post a photo of himself at GG's filming location, he's going to post one that says what he wants to say while still maintaining plausible deniability. This volcano park is perfectly situated to provide all of that.

Aside from that - as turtles have already pointed out - why would DD share photos from the area where he's filming, when this film has been so very locked down until now? It doesn't make any sense at all. Keeping locations secret is what's been protecting this film from leaks and stalkers.

The content

It's pretty interesting that we've seen enormously popular photos from GG (his birthday post has over 33.7 million likes, while the Xiao Zhan Studio birthday photos post is at 4 million likes), featuring him hiking in the wilds and hanging out in campground areas, and then we get something similar from DD who, as you said, rarely shares personal photos anymore.

They both seem to be very outdoorsy lately!

For two people who - according to solos - are 'trying desperately to get out from under the tyranny of this delusional CP', they sure are making some big mistakes about how to appear to be very different people living very different lives...

His and his B&W Leicas

His and his credit card iPhone cases

His and his Gucci lion head necklaces

Yeah, they're really putting in every effort to shake this 'reputation destroying', 'horribly toxic' ship! 🙄

More on that here.

The timing

This is the biggest thing, and in my opinion what we should be focusing on the most. Because as far as I'm concerned, this post is a statement - a very loud and clear one.

DD is being (yet again) attacked with these horrible, laughably false (like, seriously - the photos are clearly of a woman who is much shorter and smaller than DD) rumors about him attending a concert with a particular actress, and suddenly the supertopic for that 'CP' is shut down and we get photos from DD that point to a totally different CP. One that he's supposedly trying to 'shake off'.

Then we see him partying it up openly, publicly, at a concert for his dear friend Da Zhangwei. Not even wearing a mask, so everyone is free to fully identify and photograph him.

It seems to me that DD is sending a pretty clear message:

I'm not dating an actress, I'm with GG

I don't need to disguise myself as a woman to go see a concert

And this is exactly what happened last time these kinds of inflammatory rumors were circulating about him with that same actress. People were claiming that the actress was wearing the same bone necklace as him (with a blurry photo where the necklace couldn't even be seen), so GG released footage wearing a Gucci lion head necklace that DD had previously worn for a race.

GG and DD don't fuck around.

So while I'll tag this with my regular "the mysteries of yizhan" tag that I use for all candy/CPN, there really is no mystery here at all. DD is fed up with this bullshit and won't stand for it.

In fact I was just saying to a friend the other day that the biggest mystery I have about GGDD these days is, how do solos manage to remain solos? They have access to the same information we do. 😅

[al-astakbar]

☆ The Gift -- Thrawn x reader ☆

> title ☆ The Gift ☆part 6/?

> summary ☆ As congratulations for his recent promotion to Grand Admiral, Emperor Palpatine gives Thrawn a gift -- a young woman who has been trained as a pleasure companion.

> pairing ☆  Thrawn x reader ☆ word count [2.1k] ☆ warnings for this part ☆ none > series warnings ☆ dubious consent; sexual slavery; concubine/ sex slave AU; will add more warnings as more parts are posted. thank you so much @starwh0ers for beta of this part :)

> series navigation ☆ part 1 ☆ part 2 ☆ part 3 ☆ part 4 ☆ part 5 ☆ part 6 ☆ part 7

> posted on ao3

author note!! To be very clear, in this story reader is a concubine against her will and is gifted to Thrawn, but there is at no point any noncon between Thrawn and reader. Reader is never noncon with anyone, either referenced or explicitly, and there is never any explicit noncon. However, this is a darker take on Thrawn and he doesn't really have many hangups about putting his gift to use...

The two stormtroopers on either side of the wide double hatch come to attention as Thrawn strides towards them. “Good morning, gentlemen. Carry on,” he says, just as quickly, and you get the impression he greets whoever’s on shift this way every morning. He has to be the politest Imperial you’ve ever met. Most in his position, of his rank, would barely acknowledge anyone under his command outside his own bridge crew and cadre of senior officers. 

Inside, the bridge hums with activity, even while the ship is in stationary orbit. The officer of the watch announces Thrawn’s arrival. The Grand Admiral quickly waves it off; there are more important things on his mind than protocol. 

You walk in Thrawn’s shadow down the main corridor, all too aware of the questioning murmurs following you.

Once you’ve passed through a sort of foyer and mounted three short steps, a younger officer with neat, short cropped hair strides up, shoots a concerned glance at you, the non-Imperial interloper, and greets the Grand Admiral.

“Good morning, Admiral.”

“Good morning, Commodore Faro.”

“Shall I pass the word, sir?” 

Thrawn’s nod is all the signal needed. A junior officer stands by some sort of ship-wide PA system and blows on a shrill pipe. Then she says into the mouthpiece: “All departments make readiness reports for getting underway to the Officer of the deck in the pilothouse.”

Quickly, the reports come in. Supply, Weapons, Engineering, Operations, Combat Systems. A lot of it is familiar to you, but with slight differences that make you turn your head when you hear them. Shouldn’t be surprising. Many rebellion personnel were former Imps after all.

“I’ve word from the Quartermaster. Fuel and rations replenishment completed, sir.” 

“Thank you, Commodore. Munitions?”

“Ordnance chief confirmed complete last night, sir.”

“Very good.” When they are done, Thrawn looks to another officer, who is seated at a console. “Senior Captain Lomar,” he prompts, and the Senior Captain anticipates Thrawn’s order. “Fleet channel ready for you, Admiral.”

“Attention, Seventh Fleet.” He does not settle himself in the command chair, but crosses the command walkway to stand directly in front of the forward viewport, hands clasped behind his back. You hang back, and find yourself transfixed by his presence, unable to look away. “This is Grand Admiral Thrawn. I trust you have enjoyed your time in the capital.”

A round of appreciative, quiet laughter goes around the bridge, which you imagine is echoed on the hundreds of ships he’s addressing. Liberty calls on core planets, and especially Coruscant, were always popular, a chance for Imperial personnel to let loose and enjoy the best the Empire has to offer. 

“Our mission,” he continues, “is simple. To eradicate piracy and insurrection in the Limian Sector of the Outer Rim. To accomplish this, we will bring to bear the full skill and power of this Fleet. You have your orders. Carry them out with focus and professionalism, and we will be successful. 

 … and, good hunting. That is all.” He looks to Lomar, who ends the connection.

Commodore Faro is at his side again, stance wide, hands clasped behind her back. You’ve been on ships before, but had never seen them orchestrated with quite such precision.  “Sir, the ship is manned and ready to get underway. Permission to spin up, sir?”

Again, Thrawn nods and his crew react instantly. 

“Calculations for the jump ready, sir. Hyperdrive is spun up.”

“At your convenience, Commodore.”

She nods to a black-uniformed technician at a console, who slowly and steadily opens a heavy throttle.

You can’t help your quiet gasp as starlines flare out from a point right in the center of the viewport and then give way to the tunnel of hyperspace. The sight of it is beautiful and unexpected, and you’ve never had such a clear view of a jump before. Suddenly, you’re glad you didn’t stay in Thrawn’s quarters to pout and sulk. More than likely you’d have been stuck there all day with nothing to do except peruse his art collection, and you can’t be sure if he would even permit you that. 

** 

If getting to watch Thrawn and the view of the hyperspace jump is the high point of your day so far, meeting Brierly Ronan has to be the lowest. 

He strides onto the bridge late in the morning, and before you even know his name, you hear him chastising the stormtrooper guards before the hatch closes again. 

In a huff, he nearly gets his flowing white cape caught in it. 

Then, he notices you and loudly demands, to no one in particular, “who is this?!” 

Thrawn looks up and comes over. “Good morning, Assistant Director. Is something the matter?”

The Assistant Director draws himself up, puffing his chest out and managing a little flourish with his cape, even though he’s standing still. “Yes! There is. I want to know who this is. She’s standing in my spot.”

Thrawn’s eyes flick to the deck, as if trying to see where exactly the spots are delineated. “She was a gift from the Emperor.” He turns to you, making polite formal introductions. “This is Assistant Director Brierly Ronan. And may I present…”

At the utterance of your name, you feel an unpleasant jolt of shock. Companions like you were never supposed to be named in public. It just wasn’t done. Hearing your own name aloud feels vulgar, as if Thrawn had just announced to everyone how much he had enjoyed fucking you last night, and gone into explicit detail.

First he suggests you go without your veil, now he speaks your name. Perhaps he wants to humiliate you. This could be some game to him, but as you watch him, he does not show any sign of enjoying your discomfort. In fact, he seems oblivious to it.

Brierly Ronan, for his part, sputters and turns an ugly shade of red. “Do you really think this is an appropriate place to parade around your pet?” He spits. “Really, Thrawn, even with your famous disdain for the rules— or do you mean to share her with everyone here?”

A muscle in Thrawn’s jaw tics. He waits a moment in silence, a silence that attracts the attention of nearby crew.

“My pet?” He repeats. His tone is quiet and deadly, a trap inviting Ronan to try to explain himself.

Ronan draws himself up, unable to match Thrawn’s height. “Well, she’s obviously not a bodyguard--”

“Are you sure?” He waits for a response that doesn’t come, then continues. “They go through quite a lot of training, you know. She was in the capital for a year.”

“I know what the training entails!” Hisses Ronan. 

“And why should I not make known our Emperor’s generosity and good will? I will remind you, Assistant Director, that you are here not as a civilian, but due to your position as an officer in the Imperial military department of advanced weapons research.”

You understand the implication a moment after Ronan does -- despite him apparently having a rank as a civilian, while aboard this ship, his military posting puts him under Thrawn’s command. And he is, after all, wearing a uniform. 

Ronan stands a bit straighter, looking furious. 

Thrawn again leaves room, a polite incline of his head, for Ronan to reply. When none comes, Thrawn excuses himself to attend to other matters that require his attention. You are left standing there with Ronan, and when you realize that your silent, faceless stare is unnerving him, you force yourself to show the deference that is expected of you. He gives a derisive snort, as if he doesn’t quite believe whatever act you’re putting on. The urge to persist, and entertain yourself by irritating him, is strong, but you know you shouldn’t-- not just to avoid trouble and punishment, but because out of everyone on the Chimaera, he could be the one who might be willing to get you off of it. 

Yes. The idea strikes you like a bolt and you inhale sharply. Ronan is the one you need to befriend. He obviously doesn’t like Thrawn. Frankly, you’re surprised Thrawn had tolerated such disrespect, especially in public, in front of his crew. But any overture will need to come from Ronan himself; companions are forbidden from initiating conversations with anyone other than their masters. 

You could ignore convention, of course. You eye Ronan again. After his outburst about Thrawn parading you around, you expect that wouldn’t go over well. All you can do is take to hovering near him, and hope that he starts talking to you first.  

To your dismay, he says nothing more. He gives you another disdainful look and then turns away with a flourish of his cloak. He retreats to a corner where some officers are talking in low voices, and they hide grimaces when he intrudes on their space. 

You are left standing alone, unsure of what to do, and rather self-conscious. Your veil helps somewhat.   

Curious eyes follow you-- as professional as Thrawn’s bridge crew may be, you are a strange person encroaching on their space, and an interesting distraction during an uneventful long-haul hyperspace jump. 

You watch the operations quietly, alert, not getting too close. There are about thirty people just in the forward section of the bridge, most busy with tasks at data terminals in the crew pits. When you had followed Thrawn down the main corridor, you had seen banks of comms stations, an array of scanners, a holo pod, and some pairs of large double hatches. Officers’ meeting rooms, maybe. 

The scale of it all is enough to keep you entertained until Thrawn concludes his discussions and comes back over to you. You had been lingering near the starfighter operations alcove, listening for anything interesting, but of course in hyperspace there isn’t much activity. 

Reading the bios last night had not quite conveyed the significance of the Grand Admiral’s rank. Of his extraordinary career.

As you follow him back down the main corridor, you ask how many ships he commands. Impertinent question maybe, but he answers. Nineteen capital ships and twenty-five cruisers. 

He lists off more numbers, staggering numbers of ships and personnel, as if it’s the most commonplace thing in the galaxy. 1900 TIE model fighters, then of course there are all the complements of shuttles and troop transports, plus hundreds of smaller support craft. 

It takes you a few paces to do the math in your head. “But then… altogether the crew must be over a million people…”

“One million, two hundred thousand and forty-two. Each one crucial, in his or her role, to the operational capability of the fleet.” “But I bet you don’t know all their names.” You grin up at him.

He merely raises an eyebrow at you. 

“I apologize for that… scene,” says Thrawn in a low tone once you are in a quieter passageway-- close to his quarters, you think, though the halls are so easy to get lost in. The standard shift is not over, but there are still hours to go for the first leg of the hyperspace jumps. You had overheard from the navigation section on the bridge that this is the first of three. “I did not expect the Assistant Director to react so forcefully. And I can assure you, he does not have claim to any particular ‘spot’ on the bridge.”

“Who is he, exactly?” 

Thrawn’s tone is just the slightest bit dry when he answers. If his sly antagonism of the man had been anything to go by, you’d bet Thrawn doesn’t particularly like him, or at least resents having to deal with him. “A mediator, of sorts. Assigned to the ship to ensure the terms of an agreement are upheld.” 

“Are you sure he wasn’t just jealous?”

Breaking his stride, Thrawn looks over at you, genuinely puzzled. “For what reason?” 

You just pluck at your robe, holding up the fabric, and understanding dawns on his face. 

“Ah, of course. A symbol of status.” He resumes walking. You aren’t sure how to feel about that-- reduced to being a rare prize-- nor do you mention the other reason Ronan might have reacted that way-- you are human, and Thrawn is not. “Regardless, I should have anticipated this. It should have been a private conversation. But in the end it was to our advantage, I think. Those who witnessed it will have gained some understanding of who you are and why you are with me.”

“And the rest of the crew will hear about it by supper,” you add. News travels fast on a ship, even one this big, where gossip will always be a favorite pastime.

He gives you a sideways glance, and you could swear he almost smiles.

☆ link to part 7 ☆

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[do-you-ship-it-polls]

April summary

Polls finished: 109

The pair with the most votes this month were Steve and Eddie from Stranger things with a total of 1472 votes for "I ship it!"

And after them comes Zuko and Sokka at 1406 votes which is still more than 50 votes under Steddie. I never really got into ATLA so I didn't realize these two were so popular, at first glance I thought it would be a rarepair. But maybe the goofball and the edgy guy are actually made for eachother.

The hidden gem title this month belongs to Keita and Thaniel from the book "The watchmaker of Filigree street" with this impressive ratio where only 0,5% of voters don't ship it. The rest of us don't like reading.

I must give an honorary mention to Victor and Yuuri as well from Yuri on ice due to the cancellation of the movie. They were one of the first canon gay couples I saw in media and there is a special place in my heart for this anime, so it's sad to see that the movie likely won't be shown. You guys seem to agree with 72% of 413 votes for "I ship it!".

And finally we have to go decide on the worst ship of the month, which appears to be Stephen Strange/Tony Stark from the MCU with a majority of 52,2% voting for "I don't ship it". Perhaps it's one of those things where there's so many different shows and comics that the non-believers just haven't seen the right one. Or maybe they just suck together. Idk.

Blog update

There are almost 600 submissions now, so it can take up to a few months for your ship to show up, depending on how often I post. But I mostly pick from the submissions at random based on variety, fun reasons, and those with pictures attached since it's easier for me.

I've added a spreadsheet to this blog, since all the cool blogs have one. I'm planning to update it regularly with the results of every poll published on here. It also features a ban list so your submission isn't just ignored forever if it gets denied by me, but the list is very short. It's also subject to change over time. I'll remove it if it causes unnecessary drama, though.

Thank you for participating this month!

[ddarker-dreams]

My Ship In (Not) Five Minutes — HWR Edition

Height difference:

canonically, i make no allusions to HWR reader's height, but my personal headcanon is that she's 5'6. so that'd be a slight height difference since chrollo is 5'10.

Age difference:

chrollo is older than HWR reader by two years. they both hardly act their age though. they'd fit right in at the local senior center. it's especially bad in HWR reader's case... she's extremely out of touch with pop culture and the lingo that comes with it.

First to confess:

chrollo, although his confession is weird and kinda convoluted. it isn't really romantic. it's more of him professing his fascination with HWR reader, saying that getting to know her better has helped him understand himself. which, to someone like chrollo, is essentially the most intimate connection in the making. this is the most genuine he can really get, HWR reader would've doubted him if he was confessing his undying love or whatever. he may have been able to sway her into believing him at first, but eventually, she'd see through it and call his bluff. so his weird confession worked out for the better. she values authenticity and he recognizes he has no choice but to break through his countless façades if he's to have a chance with her.

First to apologize after a fight:

they really... don't have fights? neither of them are the types to give into passionate outbursts of feeling, they both approach things in a calm and rational manner. it's more like a cold war when they disagree on something serious. when the iciness thaws out, they both prefer to kinda move on without outright acknowledging it. there'll be some small, thoughtful gestures on both their parts as a way of making amends. chrollo would be the first to apologize, but this would irritate HWR reader, since he'd be doing it for the sake of it. chrollo knows this and wisely keeps his mouth shut LMAO.

The more popular/charismatic:

chrollo 😔 he oozes charisma. he knows how to read people and get himself in their good graces. HWR reader... simply doesn't care to do that. she can hold a conversation well but doesn't really pay much mind to the other person's feelings. this is why at high society events she keeps her mouth shut as much as possible. chrollo's tact is otherworldly, she swears it's a sixth sense he's developed. he once claimed to be an empath. she faked a cough to cover her laugh.

The best caregiver when the other is sick:

probably HWR reader for the sole sake of her dedication?? she saw her mother degrade physically over the years and it left an impression on her. she knows that what looks small at first can rapidly develop and spiral out of control. she'd hover around chrollo, monitoring him like a hawk. would take his vitals every hour and log them dutifully. make an excel spreadsheet of them when he's asleep. fortunately, both their immune systems are pretty impenetrable due to their body body's unique constitution. there are some health complications relating to corruption, a side effect of the unique blood HWR reader has, but she keeps that under tight surveillance.

Does the cooking:

chrollo learned early on that HWR reader's cooking is... well-intentioned, if not inedible. she went most of her life without cooking, her meals were always made for her by her teacher's specifications. consequently, she looks at cooking as an experiment and wants to see what would happen if she put every spice in the spice cabinet in pasta or whatever. chrollo, being the excellent leader that he is, recognizes her enthusiasm and doesn't dare trample on it. he just redirects her energy elsewhere. he handles the stovetop and lets her do the prep work. the woman can cut fruits and veggies like a machine.

Does the housework:

oh boy. HWR reader 100%. she is a neat freak. chrollo pitches in and cleans up after himself, but HWR reader is the one who goes crazy deep cleaning the entire apartment once a week. she just likes things being nice and orderly. she gave him a cold stare when he didn't take his shoes off when walking into the apartment once. by estella's sisterly advice, HWR reader got rid of her black light when chrollo moved in. estella rightly guessed that this would be 'a touch on the excessive side, dearest.'

Does most of the speaking:

it's somewhat equal, but leaning more toward chrollo, especially in the beginning. he had to pry her out of her shell. she mostly gave short, very polite responses to his questions. he had to do some poking and prodding to figure out what conversations get the most out of her. fortunately for him, he's a fast learner. unfortunately for him, HWR reader (correctly) assumed he wanted something and would've preferred he just come out with it. this mild ire couldn't last long, he's too pleasant a conversationalist. he makes it look like an art.

nowadays, they both speak the same amount. they'll either be silent for hours while going about their own business, or staying up until 3 am debating if albert calmus' the plague was literal or metaphorical. big nerds.

The overprotective one:

hmmmmm chrollo wins this one by a few points. they're both confident in each other's abilities to take care of themselves. honestly, they both kinda like watching one another fight. they think it's hot to watch their partner absolutely decimate another human being. that being said, chrollo tends to pick up on things far more than HWR reader when it comes to social interactions. someone could give her their phone number and she'd just think to herself, 'oh, that's strange.' chrollo recognizes this quality of hers and while he finds it endearing, he's a deeply possessive man. such is the nature of a thief. he'll give the most chilling expressions to anyone eyeing or talking her up. it's one of the few times he allows his bloodlust to seep out. naturally, HWR reader notices this and goes ??? at him, but he just smiles and waves it off.

Designated driver:

chrollo. it's a weird man thing. the first time they ever walked to a car together, he just went straight for the driver's seat without thinking about it. she doesn't have a preference either way. much to chrollo's surprise, HWR reader actually favors motorcycles. she reasons that they get her places faster. chrollo thought this was a quaint platitude until he rode with her on one once. she almost broke the speedometer.

Has good penmanship:

they both have good handwriting, but chrollo's is slightly better. HWR reader writes faster and in cursive. chrollo writes in cursive as well, but he takes his time with it, writing almost like a calligrapher. he can falsify other's handwriting and signatures perfectly too. he also prefers classic stationary, the man unironically writes with an ink and quill. good god. HWR reader is kind of a snob as well. she prefers fountain pens and looks down upon ballpoint pens.

Has more experience with relationships:

neither of them have been in a serious committed relationship before, but chrollo still has more experience. he's done his fair share of schmoozing to intrude circles he intended to rob blind. HWR reader had a girlfriend for a time (karina), an experience that was more like a wild rollercoaster ride than anything else. so this is all very new to her. she doesn't have a solid point of reference.

Sensitive to subtle changes in partner:

chrollo by far. HWR reader finds it mildly disconcerting how well this man can read her. he knows her body language, tone of voice, even the normal state of her aura. he can tell when something's bothering her before she even realizes it. he has enough knowledge to write a dissertation on her honestly.

The one who proposes:

chrollo, in more of a musing, since he asks her all sorts of curious questions. it'd be something like, 'would you ever consider marrying me?' and she'd just go silent for a few seconds... then say yes, she would. neither of them place much importance on the institution of marriage, it just seems kinda nice. they could equally do with or without it.

The one who dies protecting the other:

they'd both die for one another without hesitation, but in all likelihood, it'd be HWR reader :(( it suits her narratively. however, i could never bring myself to write it . they need to be alive and menaces to society together.

Handling conflict:

they're both so stubborn and opinionated without realizing it 😭 surprisingly, this doesn't lead to much tension since it takes a lot to seriously rile them up, but when conflict does arise... it's so icy between them. there's no yelling or gesticulating, just Stares and some dry words. chrollo can occasionally come off as very condescending and she would not take sit there and take it. cursed vibes in the apartment. enough to make plants wilt. this happens infrequently, though.

Relationship attitude:

complete dedication. neither of them is interested in anything casual. HWR reader is viciously loyal to the few people she cares about and chrollo's something of a hopeless romantic. in the beginning, they were both feeling things out, mostly curious to see where it'd go. as they learned more about each other and themselves as a result, their attachment grows to the point they're inseparable. they feel like they complete one another, in a way. they have enough in common and enough that sets them apart to never be bored.

Showing affection:

this does not come easy to HWR reader. she improves with time, but at first, she isn't sure how to express her feelings. the are some urges on her part but she isn't certain if it's proper to act on them. chrollo can tell she's holding herself back, and although he might tease her on the occasion, he's good at gently encouraging her to do as she pleases. chrollo loves classic displays of romance. bouquets of roses, handwritten notes, gourmet chocolates, the works. she likes it more than she cares to admit. he's the most outwardly physically affectionate between the two, often putting a hand on her thigh, wrapping an arm around her shoulder, kissing her hand... he treats HWR reader well. she secretly really likes holding hands but is too shy to admit it. chrollo 100% notices this and reaches for her hand to spare her the embarrassment.

Dealing with jealousy:

HWR reader rarely gets jealous whereas chrollo is slightly more inclined to do so. it's not so much that he doesn't trust HWR reader, but that he's deeply possessive and doesn't appreciate people encroaching on his woman. like he worked hard for this. go away. they're both attractive people, so they inevitably earn attention, yet there's just no competition to be had. how do you one up chrollo lucilfer or miss avalor. you just can't. if someone is shooting their shot with HWR reader, chrollo slides on in, wearing the fakest smile, pulling her close to him by her waist. he radiates this Energy that silently communicates the interloper should scamper off if they know what's best for them.

Attachment:

they're very attached without having to come outright and say it. they travel together, cook meals together (with chrollo supervising so no one gets food poisoning), hell, they'll even grocery shop together. they just like being in each other's orbit. it's nice. one would think they'd get tired of each other, but since they're both introverts, they naturally go into their own headspace if they ever need time to themselves. some days they'll quietly coexist and on others they won't shut up about determinism or whatever.

[twst-hottest-takes]

I don't know how much of a hot take this is, but I really hate Rookvil or is it Vilrook...? Either way I don't like Rook and Vil as a couple.

I love both of them as characters (Even though book 5 did Vil so so dirty imo), and on paper they're perfect together. Vil has a passion for beauty and perfection, Rook also has a passion for beauty and arguably life in general.

However, what gets me is Rook does not care about Vil at all. Like in Vil's lab outfit, Rook critizes Vil's weight (invalidly imo), which sends Vil into a downward spiral. And then in Rook's lab outfit, Rook is like "Yeah, the whole point of me joining the science club was to produce pictures for your Vil." Meanwhile he's making goo goo eyes at Leona out the window! LIKE SIR STOP!

Though this extends past outfits, this even happens in book 5. Now I'm not saying Rook was wrong for choosing Neige over Vil, but I'm not saying he's right either. Because if we're honest here, who would date Rook after that? I'm actually shocked the group didn't jump him.

Now, if this ship was just a fandom thing, I'd be fine with it. I already don't ship a lot of popular ships in the fandom, and I'd be willing to look past it. However, I was getting bored waiting for more book 7 content, so I went looking around for spoilers as one does, and I see Rook loves both Neige and...VIL???

Now this shouldn't come as a surprise considering, Vil and Rook were low-key flirting in book 6, and Epel was supportive of it, even though I was gagging the whole time because Jesus Christ I have never seen two characters have less chemistry. I honestly don't ever think I've seen Vil and Rook have such positive interactions before book 6, so it felt like whip lash.

And seeing the book 7 spoiler was like getting hit over the head with a frying pan when you're least expecting it. I just feel like maybe Vil does care about Rook, but I've never felt like Rook cared about Vil. Before I knew he was rich, I just thought he was a smooth talking poor boy, who occasionally acted nice to Vil to get closer to Neige, who he really wanted to be with this whole time.

Pomefiore once again goes hard on being inconsistently characterized.

I don't have much to say about the ship itself, but I can see where you're coming from. Rook is an unfortunately written character. As I understand it his thesis is that he is a lover and hunter of all things beautiful. That's a simple enough statement on its own and can be used to either defend or attack pairing him with Vil. The story seems to want us to believe that Rook has a special affinity for Vil in particular even though he is not always what Rook views as "the most beautiful," and anon rightfully calls his loyalty and true feelings into question as a result. There are times where Rook isn't willing to favor Vil despite being one of the closest to him, and I can see how someone might take that as a cue that he doesn't especially care about his housewarden and be completely turned off to them as a more intimate pair.

There are some points to this take's argument that I don't agree with however. For example, I don't think how Rook looks at Leona here is meant to have nearly the same meaning as his stated love for Vil or Neige. In early vignettes there is a much stricter sense of Rook as a hunter as opposed to just a seeker of beauty. I believe how he looks at Leona is meant to be intentionally perverse. He seems to view the beastmen, mermen, and even fae as possible quarries and he revels in the idea of how he would "catch" them like he would an ordinary animal. This is an element of Rook that is muddied as the emphasis on "beauty" takes the forefront and his initial impression of being rather creepy is swept under the rug. That is one of my greater criticisms of Rook's writing as a character and is something I would take a deeper look at in a proper character analysis.

Thank you for your take!

(It was only a matter of time before we got a ship based take. By the by, I always thought it was called VilRook but there is evidence to say people just use one or the other name depending on a person's preference.)

[solarwynd]

I disagree a little with the assessment that ARMYs would automatically become JK's fanbase if the group is no more. His retail album sales figures aren't all that ahead of Jimin. His entire album is in English, he had crazy promo, from July we got almost non stop stuff till December, he had huge names he collab'd with and yeah with all that he did the best among the members. But comparing effort with outcome, his results don't look that great to me. If army were as enamoured with his music as they were with BTS' old albums like BE or MOTS:7 or LY, I think he would've done way better. He's still got two songs on TTH if you think about it and his streams are good don't get me wrong but his songs are still on the largest playlist on Spotify you know? It tips the scales.

The reason a lot of pjms feel like JK is favoured is because, the fact of it is, that a lot of armys don't like Jimin in particular so when we compare the way they act for Jimin versus the way the act for JK, we can clearly see a difference. But if Tae or Yoongi, who are in my opinion the two other army favourites, had gotten the same push as JK, they would've gotten the same level of support.

Anyway, in pure numbers it won't make a difference whether his results are due to Hybe or due to army. My only point is that if Hybe keeps investing so much in JK, I'm sure he'll continue to do well but he's never gonna reach BTS' level. They continue to pump money to keep him on all the big playlists to maintain this illusion that he's got ARMYs full support but in my opinion, that's all it is. An illusion.

Also this ask is getting too long but I also just want to bring up Tae. The most followers on IG, most fancam views and prior to solo era he was considered by some, including many armys, as the secret weapon since he was considered the most popular. But that didn't get him anywhere with layover (compared to Jimin and JK) and that's because his standing as the most popular member was partly illusion. If you looked under the hood it was the paid followers and views (not by him) or vpn voting and sales or multiple accounts and all that only works up to a limit. I'm just saying JK's strength is also partly illusion, constructed by the label (rather than fans which it was for Tae)

TGK are definitely the middle ground for armys, I agree. But out of the 3 of them, jk was always gonna have the best chance of suceeding. Armys don’t care for golden but they really don’t like layover. They take to yoongi better than joon or hobi, but the majority of the fandom still doesn’t like to stream rap music. Jk having palatable pop music was always gonna work in his favor over the other two. That’s why bang and scooter picked him because he’s the most agreeable member across the board.

And yes jk’s success thus far is mostly an illusion. One that they had to forge because the needed to devalue jimin. But like you said, it really isn’t all that impressive when you consider the effort they put into him. You look at the 16 versions worth of albums billboard reported that they put out to boost his sales yet he was only able to sell around 46k more than jimin who had 5 (a mini album at that). Like it’s very obvious what that reads as. 🥴

That “secret weapon” tagline armys had for th was embarrassing and came back to bite them in the ass. But they’ve always put so much stock in the superficial regarding that man and little else. You’ll see his stans fight this one sided battle with pjms because they’re still deeply bothered that jm pulled off the debut they expected th to do. They’ll cling to his popularity for dear life since that’s their safeguard and you can’t help but laugh because their only solace is that he’s more liked than jimin is. But does that mean much when it’s purely due to looks and out of obligation to do so because he’s one half of a ship? Not really.

[somedaylazysomeday]

Matter of Perspective - Part Three

A return to the office doesn't exactly mean a return to normalcy.

Horacio Carrillo x fem!reader

Rating: Mature. Minors, please do not interact.

Word Count: 3,400

Warnings: Office pettiness, threats (both joking and real), awkwardness, relationship conversations, minor misunderstandings.

Previous | Next | Masterlist

---

The DEA office was the same on Friday as it always was. 

When you returned from the Magdalena River bust - as it came to be known - you found that the trash can by your desk still held the forgotten remnants of your last office lunch, someone had used your mug and left it in the sink, and that Steve freaking Murphy had strategically reordered the photographs on your desk. 

You were halfway through chewing him out about it and fending off his excuses (“The stack fell over! I was just trying to put them back how I thought they were.”) when Javier Peña and Horacio Carrillo stepped into the office.

The gathered employees, American and Colombian alike, burst into applause. Peña nodded, offering a hint of a smile when Murphy let out a piercing whistle. Carrillo was stone-faced as ever, but his eyes traveled briefly to you. You smiled at him, feeling foolish for clapping when he raised a single brow. But it was all in good fun and provided some much-needed levity in the office, so you kept going. 

The shipment of cocaine that had been seized along the Magdalena River was a large one, and that provided the most popular topic of conversation through the day. It was a never-ending source of amusement for you. Stories about the bust ranged from someone tailing Escobar himself and finding the ships to some undercover work by one of the DEA agents. One theory even gave credit to an anonymous tip from someone who had seen the narcos unloading product into the caves. You snorted aloud at that one. If anyone from the office had seen the remoteness of the caves, they would have come up with a better story.

But you couldn’t spare too much time for listening to office gossip. The pile of photographs on your desk was already too large to ignore and it was growing by the hour. You tore through them, discarding or expanding upon notes that previous agents had left on each one. Sometimes the pictures were heavily marked, clearly having been through several stages of analysis before they reached you, but you still checked them diligently. You never knew when you were going to see something others had missed. 

“Got a minute?”

You looked up to find Peña standing by your desk. The pile of photographs beckoned and you really didn’t want another week of shunning from jealous office workers, but Peña hadn’t asked when it wasn’t important…

“Now?” you asked, fingers stroking delicately over the photograph you were almost finished analyzing. 

Peña shrugged. “Up to you, but sooner would be better.”

With a sigh at the realization that you would end up working late to cover for the time you spent speaking with Peña, you stood and followed him. 

Peña led you, unsurprisingly, to the records room. 

“If there’s another map in here…” you started, the threat clear in your voice despite the clear lack of concern on Peña’s face.

“No, but I did bring you a present,” he told you. When you gave him a suspicious look, he gestured you through the door to the room. 

True to Peña’s word, there was no map on the table in the center of the room. But that table was also empty, and you frowned until you heard someone ask, “What is this?”

You turned, already smiling when your eyes locked with Horacio Carrillo’s. Since you weren’t sure what to say, you settled for a nod in his direction.

Carrillo returned the nod stiffly, though his brown eyes were warm. “What are you doing, Peña? You said you needed me to consult on something.”

“I do,” Peña agreed. “I needed you to tell me what the two of you are doing so I don’t give anything away.”

You arched a brow, glancing at Carrillo as you did. You had been under the impression that Peña knew everything that had happened between you and the handsome colonel.

“What makes you think something is going on between us?” you asked, trying to head off his suspicion with a challenge.

Peña gave you the most disbelieving look you had ever seen. “Yeah. If I don’t believe that line, there’s a good chance no one else will, either. You need to come up with an official story and stick with it.”

Carrillo growled something in Spanish, but it was too low and too rapid for you to catch what it was. In any case, Peña rolled his eyes and shook his head at you both. 

“I’ll give you some time to figure it out,” he offered, stepping out of the records room. You made as if to follow him, but the door closed with a sharp snap. 

Feeling a little sheepish, you turned to Carrillo, who still hadn’t moved. “I, uh… I guess he meant he’ll give us a few minutes, not a few days.”

“Seems that way,” Carrillo agreed with a shrug. 

You nodded slowly, feeling uncertain. It had seemed like you and Carrillo left things in a good place after you had hooked up on Monday evening. He had slept in your tent, snuck out in the gray pre-dawn morning, and you had been casually near each other ever since. He had been more laid-back and talkative when you were dealing with the Magdalena River caves. He had even smiled at you once!

But, when you looked at things in the logical light of day, you had to admit that you hadn’t made any further plans. Sleeping together could have been a one-time thing, a way to relieve some tension or make the most out of a comparative lack of supervision in the field. Just because you couldn’t remember the last time you had cuddled after a one-night stand didn’t mean that it never happened for anyone. 

And that left you with no idea of how to proceed with Carrillo. 

For lack of anything else to do, you occupied yourself with the table in the center of the room. As you had previously noted, there was no map on it, but you wiped some theoretical dust from its surface before you hopped up to sit on it. 

When you looked back at Carrillo, the coronel was watching you. For the first time since you had seen him that day, he was smiling. Well, almost. He looked less severe than he had the other times you had seen him. 

“Good morning,” you greeted with a smile. 

“It’s almost noon,” he noted, taking a step toward the table. 

You shrugged. “Yeah, but this is the first time we’ve spoken all day. I figured I would start from the beginning.”

“Ah,” Carrillo said, understanding dawning in his eyes. “Buenas días, then.”

You aimed another smile in his direction before you focused on your own feet. The toe of each shoe came briefly into view, then disappeared as you swung your legs back and forth. 

“Why-” Carrillo’s sudden question cut off before you could hope to guess the rest and you looked at him. He folded his arms behind his back, straightening his posture and letting his expression settle into its usual stern lines. In a moment, he had returned to the tightly buttoned officer you had known him to be. “Are you upset with me?”

“Upset?” you repeated, bewildered. “Why would I be upset with you?” 

“Because this…” The explanation trailed off into nothing as Carrillo gestured back and forth between you. “Why is this so uncomfortable?”

You laughed at that. It was loud in the small room, and you were thankful for the file-bearing shelves that lined every wall. At least they dampened the sound and prevented any echoes. Come to think of it, that was probably why people misbehaved in the records room…

A movement from Carrillo pulled your attention back to the moment and your breath caught when you saw him truly smiling. You returned it gladly. “I’m not sure, but it is a weird situation. Maybe we should have planned a little better.”

“If you were not prepared yesterday, the best day to prepare is today,” Carrillo said. He grimaced a moment later. “That sounds better in Spanish. It seems that we should have a conversation.” 

You nodded, slipping down from the table in favor of sitting in an actual chair. You gestured for Carrillo to do the same. “Do you want to start?” 

“I can if you prefer,” he agreed. After taking a moment to collect his thoughts, Carrillo started, “I feel I should apologize.” 

Your heart dropped. You were prepared to hear that Carrillo didn’t want to start a relationship with you, but you hadn’t even thought to worry about him regretting your night together. It was something you really didn’t want to hear. “No need. Please.”

He frowned. “I think there is a need. I treated you terribly.”

“No, you were wonderful!” you refuted. “You were much kinder than I expected.”

‘Kind’ wasn’t a compliment you thought most men would enjoy about their skills in the bedroom, but you were too flustered to be anything other than honest. 

Carrillo was outright scowling by that point. “Kind? I’ve done nothing but insult and belittle you since we met. I even influenced my men to be suspicious of you. You have a very strange idea of kindness.”

When that sank in, you abruptly felt so much lighter that you could have been floating. You laughed aloud, the situation even funnier when Carrillo started looking as if you had broken into a jig. “I thought you were talking about the Magdalena River bust!” 

“I was, at least partially. I treated you poorly and you deserved better. You deserve better now. But I don’t think I can offer it.” 

“Horacio…” you protested, voice soft and fearful. You were exhausted from trying to keep up with the conversation, and the longer it continued, the more suspicious you were that he just needed to be rid of his guilt.

“The men of the Search Bloc distrust you,” Carrillo said, looking unreasonably bothered by his own statement. “I cannot convince them that you are trustworthy without explaining why, and that would tell them too much. I do not want to risk you.” 

“I’m confused,” you admitted, reaching out and snagging his hand. Carrillo halted instantly, watching you with wary eyes. “Are you saying you don’t want to be together? Or you do and you just want to keep it secret? Or you do and you want to tell your men so they don’t think I’m a spy anymore? Or-”

“Yes, yes, I spoke too much,” Carrillo said irritably. He scrubbed a hand over his head, squeezing his fingers around yours. "But you deserve better than me. You deserve better than all of this."

"All of this?" You frowned. "Carrillo, you remember that I signed up for 'all of this', right? I don't care how you treated me in the past. I don't care if your men are suspicious of me now. I don't care that Steve fucking Murphy keeps reorganizing the pictures on my desk every time I turn around. I asked to be assigned here, because I think I can do some good in this fight. There are times when it isn't fair, it isn't fun, it isn't pleasant. But you-" 

You broke off, suddenly aware that you were rambling. "Even if you never want to see me again, you were a bright spot in a very shadowed place, Coronel. I appreciate that."

"This sounds like goodbye," Carrillo noted. He seemed almost calm about it, but a muscle twitching in his cheek hinted at his true feelings.

“Is…” you trailed off, frowning. When you spoke again, your voice was softer, like you were asking him something in private despite the lack of other people in the room. “Is that not what you were working toward? I thought you were trying to let me down easy.” 

If the situation weren’t so tense, you would laugh at the rapid procession of looks on Carrillo’s face. His eyebrows shot up, lips parting with his slackened jaw. An instant later, his brows crashed down in confusion and those lips closed once more before forming into a scowl. 

You tried to cut his displeasure short. “I’m sorry if I misunderstood-”

“It seems to me that we are speaking in circles,” Carrillo said, taking a deliberate step toward you. You watched, wide-eyed, as he took another and another, steadily approaching until he was standing close enough that you could have touched him with an outstretched hand. “Let me be clear, cariña: I want to be with you. I want it very badly.” 

A warm delight tickled the space behind your ribcage and your reply started forming even as you realized Carrillo wasn’t done.

The only reason I would not be with you is if you felt that I have treated you too poorly in the past.” The colonel grimaced. “And you would not be wrong about that. But if you can forgive me, I will work as long as it takes to earn that forgiveness…”

You let him finish what he was saying, if only because you wanted to avoid any possible confusion after everything that had already happened. When you were sure of it, you touched his arms, sliding your hands downward until they were holding his. You were both smiling by that point, and when you pulled him closer, your kiss was sweet and lingering. 

“You haven’t done anything to need forgiveness,” you assured him. “I understand how it looked that I watched you all the time. I didn’t mean to be suspicious, but I wasn’t brave enough to start a conversation with you.”

“So does that mean-?” Carrillo started. 

You were too eager to let him finish asking the question, especially since you had forgotten to return the sentiment of wanting to be together. “Yes, I definitely want to be with you, coronel. Horacio.” 

Carrillo’s full lips tipped up at the edges, clearly pleased that you had used his first name. The last time you had done that was when you hid on the boat before your departure at Puerto Triunfo. You and the handsome coronel had stolen a moment for kisses and tenderness before you split up for the trip back to the Search Bloc’s headquarters. 

“That’s a cause for celebration, cariña,” he told you, hands settling in the curve of your waist as he stepped between your legs. You tipped your head back eagerly for him, greedily accepting the deeper kiss he pressed to your lips. “Let me make dinner for you tonight.” 

“That- mmm - sounds…” It was difficult to think with the little brushes of lips and tongue over your jaw and neck, but you tried to anyway. “Impossible.”

Carrillo pulled back, looking mildly put out. You patted his chest. “I’m sorry, Horacio. That trip last week put me way behind on work. I’m going to have to stay late tonight just to catch up.”

“I understand,” he told you, though he was clearly reluctant. “I admire your dedication to your work. I always have.” 

The skepticism must have shown as clearly in your expression as it did in your mind, because he gave a wry sort of chuckle. “Yes, even when I thought you were a spy. I also thought you were good at your job and put a great deal of time into it. Of course, I also thought your conclusions were only correct because you were working with Escobar…”

You gasped - playfully, but with a smidge of actual offense in it. “That’s rude, coronel. I’m very good at what I do, no inside information necessary.” 

“I know that now.” Carrillo’s eyes were warm as his thumb brushed over the curve of your cheek. “You are brilliant. Which is why I find it so frustrating that this office is determined to give credit for the Magdalena River bust to Peña and I. It was your theory that made us look for caverns, then your eyes that helped us find the drugs.”

It was a common piece of wisdom that a sense of humility never helped anyone get ahead in any government agency, especially the DEA. You knew this, but you couldn’t help the bashful duck of your head at Carrillo’s praise. “You guys would have figured it out eventually.” 

“Perhaps,” he conceded. “But not without more time and a great deal more money sank into it than anyone would be happy with us spending. You deserve the recognition.”

“I don’t want it,” you insisted. “Honestly, I think people congratulating me would feel like I was taking credit for something I didn’t really do. I mean, I did do it, but only with a team of people more qualified than I am to keep us safe in the field-”

“That is the job, cariña,” he pointed out. “None of us do anything alone. But I will respect your choice. Unless you decide to tell people of your contributions, I will keep quiet.” 

“Sounds like you have made some choices,” Peña said, stepping back into the records room. “But I just caught the tail end. Do you need some more time? ‘Keeping quiet’ could go either way.”

You shook your head at him while Carrillo gave a dark glare. You had seen Peña angry and impatient and flirty and wheedling. As far as you were concerned, those comprised the entirety of the Javier Peña emotional spectrum. But this… this was teasing. This was friendly. 

The shit-eating grin on his face only cemented that theory in your mind. Peña was still smiling as he said, “That didn’t sound like a ‘no’...”

You said ‘no’ reflexively, but Carrillo opted to answer with a blistering flood of Spanish. You didn’t understand any of it, but you were good enough with context clues to know that none of it had been complimentary.

Peña replied with a suggestion lascivious enough to make your face hot, which irritated you and you brushed past him. “I need to get back to work if I’m going to go home tonight.” 

“Aww, planning to go to your own home? By yourself?” Peña asked, tone full of faux disbelief. “I thought better of you, coronel.” 

“Peña,” you reprimanded, whirling in place to catch the exaggerated wink he tossed toward you and Carrillo. 

“I could kill him, cariña,” Carrillo said, not low enough that Peña couldn't hear. “We would have to run, but the problem would be gone.” 

“Pretend you wouldn’t miss me,” Peña told him confidently. 

“He’s very obvious, Horacio,” you murmured. “I don’t want everyone to know about us. Not unless we decide it.” 

Carrillo’s eyes were very dark as he asked, “What if they already know?” 

The question sent a nervous tingle through you. It would be nice to be open about your regard for the handsome coronel, but your relationship was so new and it would almost certainly complicate both of your jobs. The trade was simply not worth it.

So you leaned to the side, peering around him to Peña. “Does anyone suspect anything?”

“How should I know?” Peña asked, leaning comfortably against the wall. 

“You’re the prince of the office gossip chain,” you said, patting Carrillo’s arm so he would remember who the king was. “I think you know exactly what everyone out there thinks.” 

Peña eyed you for a moment, mouth pursing below his mustache, then gave a reluctant nod. “People have noticed that you’re both missing, but no one thinks you’re spending time together.”

“We have been subtle,” Carrillo told you, idly straightening the collar of your blazer. 

“No, not at all,” Peña argued. “People just know how much you dislike her, so they don’t read into anything.” 

Carrillo winced, then winced again when you gave a loud laugh. “Again, I thought you were a spy.” 

You nodded mutely, fingers pressed to your lips as if reminding yourself to keep quiet. Peña added, “Your men think the same thing.” 

“You’ve been so helpful today, Peña,” Carrillo said, his casual tone falling short of covering the venom that dripped from the words. “Remind me to repay the favor next time you meet with a pretty informant.” 

“Okay, I’m going back to work now,” you said again. “I mean it this time.”

The feeling of Carrillo’s thumb brushing over your knuckles was enough to weaken your resolve, but the stack of photographs on your desk was calling too loudly to ignore. With a final regretful glance back at the colonel, you returned to your desk.

---

Author's Note - as usual with Fanfic February fics, there will be a second part to this. And also as usual, the second part will be spicy.

Thanks for reading!

[aeon-borealis]

The simplest answer to why Alenoah became popular is a fanfic called Slippery Slopes by courtney-deserved-better on Ao3 happened. The fic saw Heather being eliminated rather than Noah during 'I See London…' as it explored how Alejandro and Noah's semi-friendship turned rivalry turned romance would look like in this TDWT rewrite.

Alenoah did exist as a rare pair before with a few authors who were loyal from the beginning, but that fic put it on the map. It led to an explosion of TDWT rewrites with Alenoah, which eventually to authors realizing they could put these two in even further Situations. It also led to a bunch of fanart for the fic being made on tumblr. Which exposed more people to the ship and its potential as a different flavor of Aleheather. Which led to even more art and it became a huge snowball until you now see.

I'm under the impression that it pulled most of its fans from Noco since Alenoah arguably has more basis in canon that you can work from. Not to diss on Noco of course, I just don't see where else the fans could have come from since I don't think they just popped out of nowhere, and Noco had the most fans with the potential of conversation purely based on the number of fans.

That's just my theory though! I've only been in the TD fandom for a couple of months thanks to Island of the Slaughtered so I'm basing all of this on my observations via tumblr and Ao3 rather than being in the fandom during rise of Alenoah.

Thanks for answering my question on where this might have started! I'm definitely curious about that fic. Noah has only so much screen time and following him to a final 2 scenario, regardless of ship fodder, sounds fantastic.

I think your theory is plausible. I was active in the Total Drama fandom between 2010-2014, but only came back recently. At that time, Noco was definitely one of the popular ships next to Duncey. The height of it was definitely 2007-09 because of the "ship tease" accidentally cuddling together scene in Island. Noah's always been a fan favorite. And the fandom fell in love with Alejandro the minute he appeared on screen.

This is a very generalized opinion, but early fandom for anything was really, really attached to whether or not a ship was canon. LGBT pairs of any kind were sparse in cartoons or Western animation at large. Noco makes sense from the perspective that these two had the closest, plausible chance at canon. Even if it was a snowball's chance in hell.

More recently, fans are a lot more open and receptive to crackships and rarepairs than the early 2010s. While this is a wildly different example, Alenoah kinda reminds me of how fan content helped Hanamusa (Pokemon) take off and become as popular as it is now. I want to do more research on this. I might end up writing an essay if I'm not careful, lol.

[autolenaphilia]

Duke Nukem 3D

Duke Nukem 3D, developed by 3D Realms is a showcase for Ken Silverman’s Build engine. It was not the only game to use the Build engine, nor even the first but it was the most popular and successful game to use it. It wasn’t even the first Duke Nukem game, but it’s success overshadowed the two platform games that preceded it.

At the core of Duke Nukem 3D is solid Doom-like “boomer shooter” action. It’s a game about shooting things, more than plot. The plot is, aliens have invaded and kidnapped Earth’s women, and now action hero Duke Nukem must stop them, it doesn’t go any deeper.

And the levels don’t deviate that far from the Doom formula either. Functionally it’s about exploring the often complex and maze-like levels, defeating the enemies, and finding key cards to unlock doors to progress and find the exit to the next level.Duke Nukem 3d also has the episodic structure of the original Doom, so the game is divided into sets of levels. The game originally shipped with three episodes in January 1996, but 3D Realms developed a fourth episode released first as an expansion pack and later bundled with the main game in december as Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition released in December 1996. That’s the version I bought and played for this review, using eduke32.

Duke Nukem 3D massively expanded on the Doom formula in ways that were very innovative for the time, and allowed it to compete successfully with ID Software’s own Quake, released that year, despite that game featuring actual 3D.

The Build engine wasn’t real 3D, in that it couldn’t do proper “room-over-room”, which is the hallmark of true 3D. Instead it was 2.5D, like the Doom engine that inspired it. In such an enginethe level designer can’t create a house with two floors, one floor over the other, or a platform that the player character can both walk on and walk under. Things can have different elevations, but the engine can’t actually handle all three dimensions fully.

Except the Build engine allowed the devs to fake room-over-room with various means. The basis o this trick is that two different sectors or rooms could overlap on the map, as long as they weren’t seen at the same time. Using portals to other sectors and seamless teleports of the player, including on stairs, it could fake 3D space. And this is used to great effect in Duke Nukem 3D. The level cans often feel like true 3D, and knowing that it really isn’t only makes the design more impressive.

The Build engine also allowed for basically all of its levels to be modified on-the-fly, which is also exploited very well in Duke Nukem 3D. Years before Red Faction, you could destroy parts of the environment to proceed, like blow a hole in the wall to create a new path (often marked by Zelda-esque cracks in the wall), or blow up entire buildings to proceed, both to find secrets and as part of required progression through the levels.

In addition, Duke Nukem 3D had a more realistic level design that earlier FPS games. Both Doom games were fairly abstract mazes, even when Doom II tried to depict cities on Earth it was more a suggestion than anything meaningfully detailed. Even Quake, which came out after Duke Nukem 3D and was actually 3D used a Doomesque abstract level design. But Duke Nukem 3D succeded at depicting realistic locations more so than anything that came before it. You get a cinema, a bookstore, a bank, a hotel and a subway station. Like they are not entirely realistic, but there are clear representations of real-life things and realistic enough to work. It does indulge in Doom-like space techbases in episode 2, but otherwise the settings are more realistic

Duke could do a lot more than most FPS protags bar maybe the System Shock hacker (who also had a true 3D engine to work with). You can put on scuba gear and go swimming (going from the surface to underwater is maybe one of the more obvious teleports, but still pretty seamless.). You can find a jetpack and fly around the level and find secrets. You find a shrinker weapon that can shrink even the toughest non-boss enemy to a harmless tiny creature that Duke just steps on with his boots. And you can be shrunk yourself and go through tiny crawlspaces. Also Duke could talk, and specific situations triggered situation-appropriate oneliners, impressive for 1996.

There are some problems. Gameplay-wise, the levels can be very maze-like, and it can be confusing and frustrating to find your way. There are also some really dumb switch puzzles which give you 3-4 on/off switches and it’s just inputting combinations, bruteforcing the puzzle, until you find the right one, a waste of time. But overall the level design holds up, how the levels twist in on themselves is sometimes really fun and engaging to find out.

Of course, maze-like level design and dumb puzzles isn’t the whole extent of Duke Nukem 3D’s problems. Let’s talk about the babes for a minute, the portrayal of women in this game.

Of course the traditional defense of Duke Nukem is that it’s all a joke. And yeah, Duke himself definitely is meant as a joke, a parody of 80s bodybuilder action heroes, complete with one-liners stolen from other movies. He’s an obvious example of 90s-era irony. And some of the humor works. My favorite joke in the game is that Duke leaves each level by finding and hitting the level’s self-destruct button. It’s bombastic on a literal level, but a subtle enough comment on the violent destruction of action movie heroism that it’s still funny. Way less subtle, but still fun is the fact that one of the most common enemies are pig cops, once human cops who have been turned into literal anthropomorphic pigs.

Still the joke doesn’t go far enough to truly subvert the macho misogyny of Duke. If Duke views women as sex objects, the game doesn’t contradict him on that point. Women in this game exist literally to be sexy décor scattered around the levels, and not much else. The sexy scantily clad women in this game are silly, but they are probably meant to also be unironically titillating.

Still, again it’s not too bad. Duke is played with enough self-aware humor to not be totally obnoxious, helped by Jon St. John’s charismatic and rightfully iconic voice acting. And the sexy ladies are so silly that it takes the edge out of the offensiveness. Strippers continuing their dancing oblivious while an alien invasion is literally going on around them are just too silly. The game overall is so light on plot that both the babes and Duke as a character only appear occasionally. It’s a game focused on the gameplay, and the gameplay is good.

Duke Nukem 3D is ultimately just fun to play. There is some great action here, with a nice weapon and enemy variety to keep you going. And it’s impressive how the game pushes against the technical limitations of its engine.

The best way to play Duke Nukem 3D is buying the Atomic Edition on the obscure but legit digital games store Zoom-Platform, which sells the game without drm and also includes pretty much everything officially released for Duke Nukem3D. This includes all four episodes made by 3D Realms and the official expansions made by other developers. And while you can play the original game by emulating MS-DOS via Dosbox, the best way is probably the eduke32 sourceport which allows you to play the game natively on modern systems.

[nadziejastar]

Absolutely love your akusai analysis stuff its so good omg.

Do you have any more thoughts on them?

Thank you for the kind words, I really appreciate it! As for my thoughts on Akusai, well, after beating Fire Emblem Three Houses recently, I do have a few thoughts. I know, I'm late to the party on 3H. (I actually loved 3H and would love to write metas about those ships lol). But anyways, regarding Akusai. It's a bit of a rant and there's minor spoilers for FE3H, so I'll put it under the cut.

Okay, so Sylvix felt like it was everything Akusai was supposed to be. It touched on all the same themes, too. In 3H, you've got a childhood friend trio. The standard two males and a female. On the surface it seems like the girl and the outgoing redhead goofball are a thing. But they treat each other more like bros. He and the quiet blue-haired sword guy had a much more intimate bond with each other, complete with a special promise™ to always be together and redhead being protective of blue. The redhead never wants to grow up and change because he doesn't wanna fulfill the heteronormative life script of getting married and having kids.

He is longing to go back to his childhood days but is sad at how much blue has changed since they were kids and has apparently outgrown their closeness. He hides his angst behind a smile and womanizing. Blue was once a meek clingy crybaby but now he is surly and obsessed with growing stronger. Deep down he is still an uke who secretly longs to be redhead's waifu. But he has a lot of shame related to his sensitivity and gender nonconformity. He distances himself from others, but boy does he get irritated if redhead flirts with anyone else.

I do wish the game would have just come right out and tell you that they're gay for each other (and so does this gaming site). I get why it didn't. Still, it didn't really hide it too much. They have a paired ending where they spend their whole lives playfully teasing each other like just when they were kids, never get married, and die together in each other's arms. It's the most romantic ending in the whole game, if you ask me. And Sylvix is SUPER popular and well received by the fandom. Both in Japan and the West. They have soooo much fan content. There are still some dudes who say they're just friends because ew icky gay. But most people in the fandom are able to tell they're queer-coded and are fine with it. In fact, the fandom was so fine with it that they released an overtly queer dude in the DLC, strictly due to popular demand.

3H is not a slam dunk with gay romance since much of it (particularly MLM) relies on subtext. But it still had more balls than most JRPG series and it definitely was a step in the right direction. We all know that Soriku is the most popular ship. The end of KH2 was total fujoshi fuel. But Soriku never had any chance in hell of being canon. KH is a video game shonen anime. Sora/Riku bromance is "safe". They can capitalize on shipteasing them to their female fans, but they won't alienate their male fans because Kairi is still very obviously the love interest for Sora. I found Akusai to be a lot more compelling because it was legitimately queer-coded.

Axel was queer-coded from the very beginning. His close friendship with Roxas in KH2 made people question his sexuality all the way back in 2006 and Akuroku rivaled Soriku for a time. And I do think that Axel always meant to be queer. Although personally, I did not get the impression that he was in love with Roxas. I got the sense that he probably had a best friend back when he was a human. And it was this dead best friend that he truly yearned for. The sweet and innocent Roxas reminded Axel of his human best friend and he latched onto him to help him forget the memories of days long past. That was my headcanon back in 2006 when KH2 first came out.

So, I was really happy when Days/BBS came out and it basically confirmed my theory that Axel was truly hung up on his human best friend and saw Roxas as a kind of replacement for him. And Isa was also very queer-coded. BBS!Isa has a more distinctly feminine design than any other boy in the series. He had very girlsh eyes and lips, small hands, long hair. And Saix's Mystery Gear is very cutesy-looking. Traditionally, the moon is viewed as a feminine symbol. And Saix's weapons in 358/2 Days were named after moon goddesses. They could have easily picked male moon gods, but they chose female goddesses like Selene and Artemis. It signifies to the player that, "Hey, this character does not follow the conventional gender stereotypes."

When you play 358/2 Days, and you get to the part where Axel is talking about love, you realize he's talking about his most precious memories from his human life, just like with all the other stuff like summer vacation and the red sunset. Akusai was not just superficial fujobait. Even if it was all subtext, it was a genuine depiction of two queer male characters who loved each other romantically. Axel is not straight. That’s a big reason why I was so mad that KH3 pushed their relationship off to the side and treated saving Isa as so much less important compared to saving Roxas. And it was so annoying how Saix had to mention Subject X whenever he might have seemed a little too obsessed with Axel otherwise.

Last year, Nomura said that he intended to show more of Lea and Isa's backstory in the future, so I've just been waiting for more content. I hope that we can get their story without Subject X overshadowing them like she did in KH3. I'm...cautiously optimistic. I expect this subplot to be included in Missing Link, since it is quite literally a missing link of the story. Axel is super popular and a queer-coded backstory with his childhood best friend would be very well received by the modern KH fandom, IMO. People are a LOT more accepting of gay content than they were in 2006. We've come a long way. And personally, I just love the idea that the tough cold asshole Saix's human self was actually a super sweet cutie who was in love with Lea. I really think the KH fandom would love that idea, too, if the writers were ever allowed to actually explore it. And a niche mobile game is probably a safer medium for that type of content than a mainline console game overseen by Disney, I guess. At the very least, if they ever put an Isa figurine into ML, I will whale for it if I have to. 

[aranarumei]

hi kiri I intend to make you type so many words. for our ask game I’m starting with xicheng because I have my share of opinions

ask me about a ship and I'll give my opinions + classify them as does / doesn't make sense, does / doesn't compel me oh boy. my askbox has never been this full you guys…! really fun all of you tho. some I’ve got thoughts on some I haven’t really considered etc. and very impressively: no dupes!

also. words have been written. to the point that I’m putting this under a readmore lmao. up top apology for the incoherence i do just ramble

sooo xicheng. until recently I did not know the ao3 stats for this ship were. that big? don't feel like dangling the classification like bait so I'll start by saying: doesn’t make sense, doesn't compel me. now I will take way too many words to explain exactly why I feel that way!

as a person I am first and foremost a jiang cheng x happiness shipper. kind of. I never want it to be easy for him. because I’m kind of a bastard. so I've actually read a bit of fic with jc in a few different ships, some of which have been xicheng. and there's like, a few of those fics that have portrayed as aspect of jiang cheng like... so sensitively and in a way that made me Feel Things. so I'll always love them for that. my issue is that I just feel like... in the case of these, lan xichen could often be anyone for me. i read mdzs like... pre-untamed, and lan xichen's like... idk. I liked his role in the story but he didn't super compel me? so some of my issues with xicheng stem from the fact that I've simply never thought about lan xichen that much, and I'm not really invested in exploring his character. I think they could have some compelling things because they have a variety of things on their ends that don't get fully resolved, by pure virtue of 1) existing in mdzs 2) being side characters. also if jiang cheng's visiting gusu lan it puts him in proximity of wei wuxian which does promise for interesting interactions. what sours me on xicheng is... like I've said, I think some fics can make it work enough for me. but I feel like a large motivator of the fic is just... "oh look, wei wuxian's got a brother, and so does lan wangji! let's ship them!" even though they're totally different people? and as a consequence these two tend to get sanded down into often reductive portrayals. lot of pair the spares energy.

also kind of on the subject... I think I just don't really like.... ships with jiang cheng? in general? well my tolerance actually varies but I think especially when they take place post-canon (which the xicheng I've read often does) it doesn't sit right with me. I think it’s because jiang cheng’s not in… dire straits post-canon, but he’s not really happy. like he got told about the golden core thing but he’s unable to say the thing back about why he ran off like that in the first place. and I don’t like post-canon ships where it’s like. oh… jiang cheng, you poor thing. you shall be fixed by love. so I think I’m softer on ships that deal with things that happen before everything goes to shit for this reason. like I’ve not watched a lot of the show, but him and wen qing could be fun especially since that makes the golden core thing way more fucked up. with sangcheng they were like. friends in canon and stuff and then it seems they’ve gotten more distant. with zhancheng I mean like. there’s that tension and those years where wei wuxian wasn’t around and they were carrying their separate griefs. but with xicheng I feel like they don’t have anything super interesting in canon, which makes their outsized popularity a bit startling to me.

this is like. deeply personal and is kind of petty but. as someone who has wandered into the jiang cheng tags a couple times. man. people really hate that guy. and also hate people who like him. at least the couple times I looked there was just a lot of stuff arguing about like. oh jiang cheng sucks actually he’s the worst and all his fans are delusional for liking him and they’re ignoring his Crimes. he’s a uniquely selfish character who is unable to express or feel love. I’m not saying this is everyone, it’s just… the vibe I got from quite a few posts. this was also years ago. maybe things are calmer. I’m definitely biased because jiang cheng has always been my favorite character, so of course I love him. but this isn’t a defense post of him. either you like him or you don’t. just don’t bother me. anyways, the thing about “love” has always stuck with me, because I think that jiang cheng so obviously expresses love. like… the entire way he feels about wei wuxian! that’s his brother! idk. if you can’t see that you’ve lost me. now do I think jiang cheng communicates any of his feelings well ever No.

but about the love thing. when I read romantic fics involving jiang cheng post-canon, intentionally or not, a lot of what I read had this angle of almost like… look how capable of love jiang cheng is. and I’m like. well jiang cheng already loves people. it may not have gone perfectly or been so beautiful but that doesn’t make it non-existent. if he loves selfishly or awkwardly or without communicating it, it doesn’t mean that the love doesn’t exist. I think I’m stumbling into incoherence here… but my favorite headcanon for jiang cheng is probably one where he’s aromantic and asexual, because to me it affirms this feeling of like. romantic love is not some kind of absolution. and the “love” that he feels isn’t any lesser than whatever romance is going around. many different ways to be aroace ofc but this is how I see it for him. a lot of this is probably also influenced by the fact that I’m writing a fic with aroace jiang cheng at this present moment haha. as you might imagine, having this headcanon means that I tend to be neutral on most jiang cheng ships! I think to really grab me you’d have to make it interesting on the other end, so the character’s not just a sounding board for jiang cheng’s issues and vice versa, which sort of sums up my problems with xicheng. even the xicheng fics I read and liked were like… great, I’m glad you’re treating these two like real characters and not wangxian to the left. however a lot of this fic is just like. wow jiang cheng / lan xichen you’ve had it hard. Here’s a character who will comfort you and support you. and that’s nice in a way, but not compelling as a ship, yknow? so that’s the sum up of my thoughts. I’m on the scale of neutral-dislike, but if there’s a particularly good portrayal of jiang cheng I’d probably read it.

[ryuichirou]

Hi! Sorry to intrude but I love azul/idia too and I think they make a good pairing, however I'm curious if you think it would have the same appeal and still be popular if it was f/m instead of m/m?

It’s hard to say, Anon. Tbh, we aren’t the best people to analyse this stuff because we don’t even know if the ship is popular: we don’t really interact with the fandom and its content other than a couple of very specific tags on pixiv. But I personally was under the impression that Azul/Idia isn’t as popular as Idia/Azul, for example. But compared to other ships? We don’t know which of them are the most popular ones in the fandom... Well, let’s assume we’re just talking about these two as a ship (and without fixed top/bottom aspect).

In general, a lot of it depends on a target audience. Of course, there would be some overlap between people who ship Azul/Idia as a m/m ship and people who would be shipping them if they were a f/m ship. But still, I feel like a huge chunk of shippers would be different: some people who like m/m just don’t enjoy f/m, and vice versa.

In our experience, f/m ships have a potential to become much more popular in fandoms dedicated to the mainstream titles, since they tend to have more people who are into het ships. With Twst it’s… still a bit confusing to me: a big part of it feels like it’s dedicated to m/m ships, but there is also a huge part of the community that prefers f/m dynamic. But even with this, the so-called “het” side of the fandom tends to prefer character x Yuu/OC, so f/m AzuIde might both thrive and fail depending on how people feel about them.

Whether Azul or Idia would be a girl could also play a big role because the dynamic would be quite different depending on who ends up being genderswapped. And I can’t really tell if either of them is the dynamic that f/m enjoyers would gravitate towards, this just isn’t something that we’re very familiar with 🤷

What I can say for certain though is that we personally would still love them. I mentioned it before, but we have a huge bias for m/m and f/f ships and it’s super rare for us to like f/m ships. But Azul and Idia have such good chemistry and dynamic, it would work for us even if they were a het ship. The thing is that we tend to enjoy f/w ships in which: a) there is an aggressive pushy woman and a passive pushover-type guy; b) an overly enthusiastic and unhinged man and a sardonic and quiet woman. Ironically, AzuIde works with both of these, depending on which one of them ends up being a girl lol

TLDR; No idea if they would be more popular, we would still enjoy the hell out of them though 👌

[isdalinarhot]

ya know what… Navani thoughts?

First impression: im pretty sure i hated her because she kept hitting on dalinar and dalinar kept telling her no and she JUST KEPT HITTING ON HIM i still dont like that but i just sort of pretend dalivani doesnt exist if im completely honest

Impression now: navani is great navani had such a rough life and shes finally having a life where she is truly happy and i love that for her. not even talking about dalivani here im talking about getting recognition for her engineering work

Favorite moment: i love her killing raboniel. i think theres something so good about killing your homoerotic enemy

Idea for a story: gavilar navani divorce court

Unpopular opinion: what opinions about navani are popular. i feel like there are two brands of navani enjoyers and thats straight navani enjoyers who are dating a jock and are like omg were the real life navani and dalinar <3 and its like blech. so i guess my approach to navani is whatever the opposite of what those guys are doing

Favorite relationship: i am partial to navaniel of course but ive also been going sort of bananas over navani/ialai..... like yeah on one hand its like okay this is one hundred percent just shipping the wives of the 2 guys you ship together with each other in a like sort of Look I Made Them Not Cheat! sort of thing but i dont really think of it like that because i think of them mostly during blackthorn era and like during the post blackthorn pre middle age era... so like when tehyrey in their 20s and 30s. so its not sadeas's wife and dalinar's wife its sadeas's wife and gavilar's wife. and gavilar as we all know is heterosexual. so yeah. i think it was very much a "it doesnt count as cheating if its gay shit" sort of thing which is why navani says she was never unfaithful; she is genuinely under the impression that what she did was not cheating because it was not penetrative. okay anyway

Favorite headcanon: gonna also say the jasnah navani brunch one from the jasnah ask because i believe everyone deserves to go out for pancakes with someone they love