#in part i need to see how he acts to better characterize him

[glimmeringtwilight]

SAW THE UR TAGS SAY THAT YOI SYARTED ON A SUNDAY PIECE IM SCREAMIGN RATTLING YHE BARS OF MY ENCLISURE LET ME IN

JFHAHFKAJ ur so real and valid!! I've been stewing on writing for him since he appeared for the first time bc I saw that man and I Knew he was freaky.

I'm such a whore for men who act prim and polite but are controlling (CANON. HIM BEING CONTROLLING IS CANON I?'M WJAJEOSJ) and crazy im. BARK. BARK ABKRNS AKFNSNSL

I'm really really trying to wait for more from him in the upcoming update (SOON) bc I need to see how he acts and I'm. .. .x.swjjd3jsoems i'm so. I can't wait. I thankfully have the day... of? After? The update off?? Idk. I'm going to blast through the story asap though.

[inaconstantstateofchange]

Who Builds Theseus' Ship?

This ties in to a greater discussion about Larian's changes to the game post-Full Release, and whether you consider those changes to be a good thing or a bad thing. Personally speaking, the quality-of-life and gameplay mechanics improvements were appreciated, while the direct changes to characters and especially characterization were not so much.

In such discussions, I often see people downplaying the actual changes to characterization that have been made thus far as "minor" things, but I often see one of the most glaring examples of a characterization change left out, because so many people aren't even aware of it ever happening:

Halsin.

For those who don't know, if you were romancing Halsin at the time of the original full release, and for almost four months afterward, if you took him with you to Act 3's orgy scene in Sharess's Caress, he would open up about a situation in his distant past. He would tell you about how he had briefly been "something between guest, prisoner, and consort" in a drow House, and been kept there for three years before escaping.

He stated that this was something that happened "a long time ago", when he was "a foolhardy young druid", which would mean it would likely have been between ages 100 and 245 — or at minimum 105 years ago, and at (likely) maximum 250 years ago. He closed the discussion with a line that really struck me, and that gave me such an appreciation for his character, and for the writers who had created it:

The passage of time has a strange way of polishing even the most arduous of memories into precious keepsakes.

As someone in their late-20s, with a number of traumatic events in my past, this resonated so much both with my experience of those events – once harrowing and haunting, now just simple happenings that do not affect me the way they once did – and as an inspirational message, that hurt would not necessarily linger forever.

Not only that, I really valued the insight it gave into Halsin's personality, further showing him to be someone who was deeply complex and meditative, always looking for meaning and something to take away or learn from any experience. It also served to showcase the likely reality of the relationship elves and druids both would have to the concepts of time and memory. (Another example of this is the experience of Shadowheart's father compared to her mother at the hands of the Sharrans.)

I started playing the game almost immediately upon its release in August, and was intrigued by Halsin from the start. He was someone who was kind and heartfelt, but also very settled in himself and with a simultaneously rigid and very flexible moral code. It was that complexity that drew me to him, and I appreciated the inclusion of a character distinct from the Origin companions, all at close to the lowest point of their lives.

It was to my surprise to find that this appreciation for his character and perspective on his Act 3 revelation was not unanimous. As it turned out, there was a vocal group of people claiming that this writing was problematic, and that Halsin clearly didn't even realize he was actually traumatized, and that Larian needed to fix it. Not everyone joining in with this crusade had even played the game.

And, ultimately, in a pattern they have continued to follow, Larian responded. They fixed it. At the end of November, as part of Patch 5, they uploaded an edited version of the scene with new dialogue, where the player could express this "reality" to Halsin, in one of the most gallingly patronizing statements I've ever seen.

Sounds traumatic. You may need to reflect on that.

(If someone said this to me after I had opened up to them about my trauma and my experience of it to them, we would not be maintaining a cordial relationship afterward.)

Halsin's new response to these dialogue options is a cringing, self-deprecating cascade of how the player is of course right, and he should have known better, and time could "prove to be a trickster on one's recollections" and that perhaps he had "lost perspective".

Quite frankly, it is a completely different character answering, and an almost directly opposing overall message about the role of time in healing, and the path forward when it comes to trauma. No more "one day these events will not hurt to recall the way they do now". In its stead: "only healing that looks a specific way and follows a specific path is acceptable - anything else and you are simply a poor fool lying to yourself."

The following quote is from a comment left on a video of Halsin's original dialogue in that scene, before the changes, and is just one example of how much that representation meant to more than just me to see:

That said, Halsin is trauma recovery goals for me absolutely. Being able to remember without actually being triggered? Being able to fully and freely engage HOW ID LIKE TO instead of being fettered by trauma responses? Goals. I don’t know if I’ll ever get there 100%, we don’t get elven lifetimes irl, but his level of healing brings me hope.

Ultimately, this post is not meant to argue that you should agree with me that one is better than the other. More so, I want to highlight that this existed — for many people, this was their experience of events and characters, and that is not so easily redacted. And I also want to just state, for the record, that Larian's way of approaching narrative and characterization changes to their full-release game has been incredibly frustrating. I did not agree, in August, to play an Early Access game with the inherent understanding that any potential narrative aspect might change at any time. I purchased a full-release game, and immersed myself in the story and the characters, to get to know them as the writers had originally presented.

And when Larian makes these changes based on fan feedback, they are explicitly making decisions about which fans matter, and specifically, which fans matter most. Rather than allowing everyone to experience the story they decided to tell, and draw from it what they take away, and let that spark discussion and engagement, they made the decision to defer to some fans over others, and prioritize their experience of the narrative — something that, no matter how well-intended, is always going to leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

[serpenlupus]

About Wyll and his horns (and what they mean)

Let's say I was writing a part of my Tav's story with Wyll directly connected to the dialogue he has during the tiefling party, and while struggling with this bit, I've realized there's quite a few misconceptions floating around. I felt compelled to add information to the table that might clear them, so here we go.

First, what exactly happens to Wyll when he disobeys Mizora in act one? Well, he doesn't get turned into a devil, he certainly doesn't get turned into a tiefling, he's not a half fiend, not a demon, none of that. Wyll stays human, but he has horns and red eyes (and other features we can't see on his model as of now).

(Everyone has their race listed, Wyll's remains "Human")

This is because when a warlock fails to uphold some part of their contract they can suffer a certain number of consequences, Wylls is “The character grows horns, a tail, or some other devilish features that can't be removed by any means short of divine intervention. As long as these marks persist the character detects as a fiend when subjected to Detect Evil and Good spells or similar magic.” ( from Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus, page 214)

And I’ve come across some people that think it wasn’t so bad of a punishment, that he was being racist towards the tieflings, or just not being justified in being upset after having his body forcibly changed against his will. I think they are missunderstanding just how insidious Mizora’s actions were, and here I just want to give some context to maybe bring a better understanding to the situation. Your conclusions are up to you.

Gonna start by using a not exact analogy, but I think it’s going to make the explanation easier. Stick with me for a minute.

Remember Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Caribbean? He had a branded “P” on his arm that marked him as a pirate. A murderer, robber, criminal, etc. in the eyes of the society he was a part of. What did Jack do to earn the branding? (if you don’t know this I suggest you look up the “people aren’t cargo mate” scene) He refused to transport slaves and later freed them, and Beckett had him marked as punishment.

Then, in the first movie, he saves Elizabeth, a woman he didn’t know, from drowning. Right after however, when Norrington sees he has a branded “P”, he’s like “alright, off to jail with you, and then hanging”, no other option crosses his mind. Again, Jack doesn’t know Elizabeth, isn’t indicated to think he is going to be rewarded for helping her, he just sees a drowning person, sees that no one else is going to help, and chooses to save them. That is a pretty selfless/good aligned thing to do, for no other reason that he was the one able to do it, yet the branding in his arm overrides any good action he could ever do, marking him as a criminal for execution and no further thought.

In a way, that’s what Mizora did to Wyll; she forever visibly branded him as someone that has made deals with devils, and that in the world of DnD is a VERY BAD THING. Personally I really like the mod that gives him more devilish features, but at the same time I think there was something clever about choosing to leave him looking more human. He can’t be confused with a tiefling, he doesn’t have the ears, the claws, the tail, all those features that characterize them. He looks kind of uncanny, and that would be like a red flag for anyone in that world. (Beyond the already existing hate for tieflings that I’m not gonna tackle on here because it’s a complicated thing that deserves its own post). And Wyll wants to do good, he wants to help people, to be a positive force in the world so, so badly. This dude got abducted by a nautiloid, got tadpole’d, and the first thing he did right after that was come across the Tiefling refugees and be like “Oh you need help? No worries let me teach you self defense. Oh you being attacked by goblins? Let me blast them real quick”. His way of saying fuck you to all the awful things that have happened to him is being aggressively good and kind. Mizora knows this very well, wants to see him suffer for her amusement, wants to remind him he can't escape her claws, so her choice of punishment was to forever taint his future interactions with mistrust and suspicion. Some people can go real fast from “oh thank God they saved me” to “oh no, are they gonna rob me, are they trying to trick me, are they in cahoots with the ones that attacked me first?” just because of outward appearances. Especially in DnD world. And that deserves its own conversation, but we're focusing on Wyll here.

(Mizora, when I catch you Mizora)

“Well, maybe he shouldn’t have made a deal in the first plac- - “ He was seventeen, alone, preyed upon by Mizora and put in an impossible situation. Please PAY ATTENTION to the story you’re witnesing.

Anyway.

About the tieflings. I know it’s easy to think his words can be derisive towards them, but it’s less about the horns and more about his body being changed against his will. Imagine instead that he got half his face burned, or something that disfigured him. I think his feelings at the moment were closer to that, and yeah they are pretty insensitive words to say to someone with a similar condition (horns or disfiguration), but when feelings are fresh and raw like that it’s easy to say insensitive things. Not saying it was ok for him to say them, but there was no malice in his words. I’ve also seen some people share that they think Mizora wanted to change him more to make him unrecognizable to his original self, the Wyll Ravenguard kid, and I think there is some truth to that too. She wants to make sure that Wyll remembers that he belongs to her, there's no question to that.

(MIZORA, WHEN I CATCH YOU MIZORA)

Whether the Tieflings refugees would feel unsettled by Wyll or not? Yes. In a way, they would. From reasons aside from the ones I explained above, remember that these specific tieflings come from Elturel. If you didn’t pass the History check or don’t remember, Elturel is a city that was literally ripped from the land and dragged to Avernus, First layer of hell (it left a hole on the ground and everything) because their mayor made a deal with the Archdevil Zariel some decades back in the timeline. He sold the souls of all its citizens and the city itself.

This was probably one of the worst times of their lives. Some even got captured and forced to participate in the blood War, like Dammon as a mechanic. And after Elturel got returned to the surface, the tieflings lost their homes because they reminded the other citizens of the literal Hell they’d just gone through, and they kicked them out. And remember, they met and saw Wyll as a human, and then saw him with horns. It’s not unreasonable to think that by looking at him they would be reminded of all the events that led them to the awful situation they’re in. Because of someone that was making deals with devils, just like Wyll. Even if his situation is completely different. And Wyll knows that, that’s why he tells you the tieflings are unsettled by him and chooses to stay away during the party.

It was never just about the horns.

And I know Wyll calls himself a devil but I think it’s because it’s the closest thing he looks as; devils are a whole different race with their own intricacies, although humans can be turned into devils ONCE their souls go to Avernus and they start climbing the power hierarchy there (Mizora and Raphael are cambions/ half-devils btw, which is a different thing,  there are plenty of videos exploring those details more in depth).

Do I think Larian should have made some of this information clearer/easier to access? Maybe? but to be fair, it's a game focused and dedicated to a crowd that was already somewhat familiar with the source material, that blew up waay out of what they originally expected to reach. Hopefully they’ll add some clarifications like they did to other quests. 

Anyway these are my two cents to the conversation, have a nice day, and don't hesitate to add your two cents if you feel like it!

[sailorblossoms-snowbaz]

In awtwb, we see Simon take his cues from Baz – he doesn't know how to be in a loving relationship (outside of friendship) and doesn't know how to express romantic love or sexual attraction.

We see Simon slowly learn from Baz, picking up what Baz puts down (making progress in bed when he switches his focus to "pleasing Baz") or identifying the things Baz does for or to him that he likes, and trying to do them for Baz. "I like the way Baz constantly checks on my well-being, you think that could be annoying, but it makes me so happy I wish I always had this..." after reading Baz being Simon's rock, the shoulder Simon leans on for a whole book... we see Simon doing the same thing for Baz in SFC. We see Simon start to use pet names for Baz after Baz has been using them with Simon since they got together, so we can infer that Simon likes when Baz calls him love and darling (and he would, since he insistence on being called Simon and not Snow comes from wanting to feel closer for Baz, since he was used to associating Snow with their distance)... but it doesn't end there. Or rather, it didn't start there...

On their very first meeting, Baz holds back while Simon can't resist the incredible pull he feels towards him. Much can be said about their meeting, about how much it says about the characters and the way they act about their feelings for the other, once they become aware of what those feelings actually are, but I don't want to get sidetracked here. Simon is someone who refuses to process (and so isn't used to analyzing himself or his feelings, or knowing what he wants outside of the very obvious – that being "I want a family, stability, to belong"), who needs something to guide his actions at all times... and so would be used to react to what he thinks other people are putting down. It's a survival instinct.

I think Simon has always been taking his cues from Baz.

When Simon first meets Baz, it's a moment characterized by an irresistible pull, an unbearable pain that can only be soothed by touching Baz. That's how loving Baz feels like for Simon. That's how attraction feels. It's painful to not be able to touch Baz (he will pick fights not just for his attention, but because is the only way he knows how to touch him... note how quickly Simon escalates in his touches in less than 24 hours once the truce begins). And Baz reaction to Simon in that first meeting? He's feeling the same things too, and yet, he restrains himself. While such control can awake certain admiration, his restraint in the face of such intense feelings can also feel like a rejection. Why else wait to hold Simon's hand? Maybe he just doesn't want to touch him at all, maybe he sees Simon as beneath him – which is something Simon could feel and internalize on a subconscious level, even before Baz starts acting in ways that Simon feels like it’s saying that more blatantly (which is part molded behavior and part of a wall – when Simon is like "Baz is the most arrogant person I know" I think Baz was very much exaggerating that shit around Simon, but that's another post)

This sets the tone for their future interactions. I'll never stop saying this because I'm not a bitch easily fooled by unreliable narrators with unprocessed homosexual thirst: Simon has always been following Baz around. It's just the intensity with which he follows him that varies. In one way or another, he always found him interesting and mysterious and enthralling... I also always say Simon is the obvious one between the two of them – he doesn't know, but his behavior betrays him (when Agatha and Penny both figure out in hindsight that Simon's behavior towards Baz has been gay behavior for years... it's them mostly looking back at Simon's behavior, they didn't know Baz like that back then). Baz is way better at hiding himself, and the defenses he employs are thorny. His walls have barbed wires at the top. When Baz looks unimpressed by Simon, but his behavior makes Simon think he's absolutely despised? Simon lashes out – Baz is a(n incredibly fit) creep only capable of making 2 or 3 expressions >:c (yeah, I picture Simon making that face, like he's pouting... because he is! Mr. "I know you're alive because I have been observing your soul" doesn't truly believe this shit). When Baz looks unimpressed by Simon, but his behavior makes Simon think Baz loves and wants him? A turn on, actually. Baz’s resting bitch face makes Simon want to climb him like a tree and suck his face. The difference is in what Simon is picking up from Baz (even if other things also come into play)... that has always been the case, I think. He's not free of impulses (he's full of them, actually) but a lot of his behavior centers on what he thinks (or assumes) (whenever he assumes we have problems) he's getting from Baz.

[ambrosiagourmet]

Dunmeshi characterization mumblings…

Laios tries. That’s the guiding principle of his characterization, to me. He tries more than he realizes. He thought he gave up during his years with the military but he never did. Something dragged him to Falin, after all.

He cares about people a lot and he wants to do well by them. This is usually specific people but also can be groups (eg the orcs or the residents of the Golden Kingdom). His hit rate on noticing what people like/want/need is not anywhere close to 100% but once he has locked something in he’s Locked It In.

He wants to be better than he is, and he isn’t always good at noticing what he does do well. Some part of him does want to run away, and he’s not always great at accepting that. He clashes with it, and doesn’t even always know whether he’s winning against it (framing his past of leaving Falin as running away when it wasn’t necessarily that simple). When he does self-reflect he can have a pretty dismal view of himself, and he prefers to act instead. This leads him to help as often as it leads him to step on toes, but it does very much do both. He’s working on getting better about this by post-canon though - on some level I think he’s aware that it’s not how he always wants to be.

He supports people by Physically Being There. Lots of worried dog laying their head on your lap energy. Voted most likely to stay by someone’s bedside until they wake up.

~

Marcille is still figuring out where she fits in the world. She's still figuring out who she wants to be. She can be extremely confident about some things, and completely doubt herself in other areas. She's got a little bit of fake-it-til-you-make-it charm. She DOES know what she's talking about, she just doesn't always know how to apply it. Very #gradstudentcore. She's still only just starting to explore the world beyond the safety of her parents or her school!

She has such a big heart and she emotes loudly, every time. That doesn't mean that she shows EVERYTHING she's feeling, but if she does show it, she shows it big. She loves romance and big gestures and the zest of life and people. She likes to meddle and snoop because she wants to know the whole story and wants to be in on it all. I think sometimes she might have trouble realizing that she's PART of the story, though. Like, she views her meddling gossip seeking as neutral or good acts, when they can affect people more than she realizes, and sometimes even hurt them.

In general she's not great at predicting the repercussions for her actions. I do think she reflects on herself, but sometimes she's trying to learn and do so much that some things get lost. She wants to be better, and she's always learning and growing and taking things in. I genuinely think that someday Marcille is going to be a little more sure of herself and a little more experience and she is going to be an AMAZING woman. She's just not always good at handling the fact that she can't just be THERE already.

She supports people by cheering them on. The force of Marcille Believing In You could give someone the power to move mountains. Yes, she does also fret and fuss over people in ways that can undermine that. But like the Marcille smile and "you got this" encouragement? Literally confers The Power Of Love.

~

Kabru... Kabru is building the future he wants to see. He's not very good at putting that work down, though (I know, workaholic Kabru characterization, deeply insightful). He can be prone to seeing himself more a part of the process of creating a better world, though, rather than a person who deserves to live in that world. Like, I think he'd be more likely to daydream about a statue or plaque dedicated to him than about himself actually just hanging out and being content.

He thinks about everything. I definitely don't think he's always manipulating people, but he is almost always observing. And since he's prone to following those observations to plans and ideas, he's not being great at turning off his Planning brain, and thus measures his words and actions even when he maybe... shouldn't be....

I don't think he'd describe himself as an "ends justify the means" person (he's very opposed to that way of handling things from the Canaries), but he is rather more concerned about the ends than the means. Bit of a hypocrite there, maybe? I do think his ends are kinder and more inclusive than the Canaries, though. So maybe it's something where he believes that if one has good enough ends, the means must be worth it. Especially since he directs the cost of those means at himself as much as possible. He views himself as expendable in pursuit of a worthy goal.

He is getting better about that but I don't know that he's consciously acknowledged that it's a problem. And so he's probably prone to relapse into those self-minimizing behaviors, especially given he very much has a new Goal to focus on with the kingdom.

Honestly, Kabru doesn't really self-reflect nearly as much as he might think he does. This is actually taking me a little by surprise as well. But he reacts more from emotions than logic in a few points in the story (esp the part where he stops Mithrun from killing Falin), and doesn't really... acknowledge that?

Maybe it's more accurate to say that he's kind of hit or miss with it. He is learning and growing all the time. But he's also something of a blind spot in his own excellent understanding of what makes people tick. Maybe he's better at understanding himself through the reflection of how other people see him.

He shows his support by making other people's lives easier. That might mean giving them a friendly ear, helping them navigate a tricky situation, or assuaging worries they didn't even realize that had. This isn't always true, but I think sometimes he might like some his support to be a little invisible. I don't think he has a problem with receiving praise and gratitude, but I also don't know that it does much for him, either. And being able to help without being noticed can help him hide the vulnerability of the depth of his attachment.

Also, Kabru would probably be more emotionally destroyed by one person helping him with something than a hundred people praising him for his help (but would claim he prefers to help and be appreciated for it).

[oddberryshortcake]

Deuce’s learning disability

A core part of Deuce’s character is he isn’t the brightest. In the past, he skipped school and acted as a delinquent and therefore fell behind what is easier for other kids…But why exactly was school so hard for him even before he started taking it seriously?

It’s never outwardly said, but as someone who has a learning disability and dealt with the frustrations of not being understood by my teachers or helped by previous schools, combined with some subtle details added in the game and by the voice actor, I think it’s possible that Deuce has a learning disability. 

I don’t think it’s a singular one in specific, it can be either of them, but in my personal opinion, he comes off as dyslexic to me (as someone who has dyslexia and dyscalculia)

Here are some traits I recognize from my own learning disability I’ve seen exhibited in Deuce-

Mispronouncing/misreading words 

Spelling errors

Repeats words to help him better understand/memorize it (Deuce’s VA said this is how he interprets how Deuce learns, and I love that added personal thought and interpretation) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ_frMuJvu4

Being characterized as ‘dense’ and a slow learner 

Deuce reveals in Book 5 chapter 40 that he always struggled in school, that he is slow to learn, and he needed extra help that likely no one was giving him (until NRC,) so he turned to delinquency, to cover up the inadequacies he felt with being too cool to try hard. 

But what does he do when he gets to NRC? He still struggles, but when he’s offered remedial lessons from Crewel, he happily takes it, because finally there’s a teacher who is offering him the extra help and attention he needed to succeed in school.

(Remedial lessons are essentially extra help for students that need it. It isn’t always for kids with learning disabilities, but I was given remedial lessons as a kid after I got diagnosed to help me) 

Deuce struggling with feeling inadequate and dumb despite how hard he’s trying is so compelling because I’ve been there; I’ve been in his place. It makes me sad to see the other kids pick on him (namely Ace), but I know he’s going to kick ass and be everything he wants to be.

This one is for all the dyslexic/adhd/other learning disability kids who busted our asses despite what everybody said

[cat-downthestreet]

hey, listen! this is a rant post about neurodivergent characters in Genshin and my frustration with the fandom's reading comprehension skills. if you're in a bad place or just don't like angry rants, please don't force yourself and go read something else instead. <3

Okay, so, I watched this video recently, and let's just say, I have some thoughts.

https://youtu.be/tYK3297p4rk?si=eMaf8NF57HFlUhfd

This isn't just a Xiao problem- the entire fandom is terrible at characterization. The example that makes me the most angry is the mischaracterization of neurodivergent characters.

Take Alhaitham for example. He's often seen as rude and narcissistic by the fandom- which is especially apparent in Haikaveh content, where people portray him as straight up abusive.

You wanna know why this makes me so mad? The supposedly narcissistic and rude traits Alhaitham has are actually just exaggerated symptoms of autism.

Like, come ON, people. Don't skip dialogue. Better yet, go read through his story quest again. He straight up tells someone who sees him as narcissistic that he doesn't see others as less than himself. Also, his voicelines basically confirm this- he's extremely socially inept and he doesn't care. He has difficulty showing emotions as readily as his peers- that doesn't mean he doesn't have them, just that he expresses them differently. He comes across as rude because he doesn't get that people don't like to hear what they're doing wrong, and he probably doesn't care because that's not his problem. If people don't like how blunt he is, that's their problem. At least, that's how I think he views the world.

And like, there are SO many hints that he's autistic. He wears sound-blocking earpieces, for crying out loud. Hell, the ENTIRE REASON why he helped out during the Archon quest was because he didn't want his life to change too much. Preferring routine is an autistic trait.

And the worst part is, when I talk about this outside of neurodivergent groups, people tell me I'm wrong and that he couldn't be autistic DESPITE THOSE PEOPLE NOT BEING AUTISTIC THEMSELVES.

And I'm not saying that every autistic person relates to Alhaitham, but I certainly do. And I'm actually quite friendly because I'm anxious about being rejected. Alhaitham isn't, and I'm so jealous of him for that. He's living his best life.

Finally, back to the Haikaveh thing... Alhaitham isn't abusive. He doesn't say horrible things to Kaveh, and the one example of him doing that I could find, he immediately backtracked and subtly tried to make Kaveh feel better. Hell, Alhaitham doesn't even actually care about making sure Kaveh pays rent. He says it as a joke, but because he's autistic and his tone of voice doesn't give that away as well, he's portrayed as abusive and misunderstood as narcissistic. Y'all just don't like neurodivergent people and it shows.

Yes, neurodivergent includes Xiao. PTSD is often viewed as a form of neurodivergency, and there are many MANY characters in Genshin that have PTSD or some other form of neurodivergence. Yet people refuse to see them as such and mischaracterize them as "edgy," "narcissistic," "unapproachable," "weird," and the like. Yet none of these characters are any of those things.

You wanna know the true narcissists? The true edgelords? The actually rude people? Might I direct your attention to Scaramouche, Childe, and Dottore, whom everyone makes out to be as misunderstood pathetic little meow meows that need love.

Reminder that only two of those three are actually redeemable, and one is STILL an edgelord who is more rude than Alhaitham could ever be, while the other is a certified insane person with a weird set of morals.

(Side note: I love Scaramouche and Childe as characters. I'm just tired of people acting like they aren't worse than the autistic characters. Scaramouche is extremely rude, but he's trying to be better as Wanderer thanks to Nahida's help. He has severe PTSD, and Childe does, too. But both of them are actually messed up and have done horrible things, yet people portray them as better and more in need of love than the characters with unlikable (read: neurodivergent) traits.)

Don't even get me started on how people portray Kokomi, Sucrose, Fischl, Diluc, Zhongli, Cyno, Furina, Neuvillette, and Albedo. Especially that last one- I WILL get mad if one more person tries to tell me he's just emotionless and rude.

Also, if anyone is wondering where I've seen people misunderstanding these characters, it's mostly on Hoyolab site discussions. There's one too many posts talking about how "rude" and "annoying" these characters are.

With Alhaitham especially, I see many people writing him as abusive in Haikaveh content. I see people arguing about the ship being toxic because Alhaitham is "abusive," "unfeeling," and "cruel." Even people who like the ship portray him as such. And I've seen too many people comparing him to Dr. Ratio, who is literally just a narcissist who views others as beneath him. Don't get me wrong, I understand the comparison. It's just... very obvious that people skipped dialogue during Genshin's Archon and story quests.

And it's frustrating because I've been misunderstood in the exact same way. I've been called "rude," "annoying," and "unfeeling" in the past and it's screwed me up. Seeing people do the same thing to a character I so deeply relate to makes me lose confidence in both myself and people around me.

If that's how you view a fictional character with autistic traits, how do you treat real people with the same traits?

Thanks for reading this far. My previous post seemed to get a lot of attention, so I felt more confident about posting my full perspective on this subject. Can any of you think of other characters that have been constantly misunderstood in the fandom? I'd love to hear about it.

[sunshine-and-christmas-caryls]

My thoughts on The Umbrella Academy’s season 4 Love Triangle. Spoilers below!

Please Note:

This is ridiculously long and consists of my thoughts and interpretations of the characters and their motivations/ feelings based on what we got to see from the show. They aren’t necessarily right or wrong for the characters- they are literally just my interpretations and likes and dislikes with how they handled the love triangle in this season of the Umbrella Academy.

I do not want to get in debates or arguments about the merits of either couple, if the storyline should have been included in the first place, of what is in or out of character, or about who is endgame, or anything else. If you agree with my opinions cool; if you disagree with them cool; if you want to share those thoughts or have a conversation about it, also cool.

But please skip this post if you’re just looking for a fight. This was more for me to organize my thoughts on them, and share for others who found Five and Lila as a couple unexpectedly (for me at least) engaging.

Other Things to Note that I don’t really get into in the main body of this:

-I think there are a hell of a lot of plot holes and inconsistencies, and some poor dialogue scripting in season 4. Some of which really, really bother me. But I think the storylines and plots had potential as concepts and could have been done so much better had there been more money & care to make more episodes. (Some of the concepts would probably have needed much more time than a full season to really be done well though...)

Overall, I didn’t hate season 4 so much as I was kind of underwhelmed and a little disappointed by it. [But if we’re being honest, while I like TUA overall, I do think each season was at least a little bit worse as a whole than the previous one anyway, despite there being good and/or great parts to every season too…]

-I did feel like most of the characters were a little off compared to how they acted in previous seasons. However I don’t know if that had more to do with:

a) lazy and/ or rushed writing, or

b) the plot/ time skip

I am one of those who thinks Five actually is a little calmer in nature, but a lot more manic the more stressful and pressing the situation gets. However he doesn’t have a lot of the same smugness and sarcasm that I was expecting either. Diego doesn’t have the same kind of determined motivation he shows in previous seasons, and Lila is a little less chaotic even if there are still a few hints at it.

Now part of that, I think, is due to the 6 years time difference and the characters growth that we missed during that. Especially considering their new circumstances: Diego and Lila being parents and Five, for the first time since he first time traveled to the future, was not in the middle of (nor actively trying to stop) an apocalypse. Plus ALL the characters had adjustments to make in being without their powers.

Part of it, I’m assuming, is also because of the shortened episode count leading to a poorer script overall. And I’m hoping that had we got a full season we would have been able to see a little more of their previous characterization come through too.

-My opinion about Five’s sexuality since that seems to be a topic of conversation for some who felt he was OOC in that regards:

To be honest I don’t really have a clear idea of it, other than he is absolutely not aromantic, in my opinion. I can respect your opinion if you do/did and were disappointed, but he thought up a wife for himself when he was alone- not friends or a substitute of his family. To me that just means he’s a big romantic at heart.

Whether he’s asexual, Demi-sexual, bi/pan or straight otherwise, I honestly have no clue. I think I gravitate towards him needing an emotional connection for him to have a fulfilling relationship in the show. But I think I saw somewhere that he got around a lot in the comics, and I could see that too if that’s the unspoken assumption they were using.

Side note on Dolores: I thought 5’s romance with her was a great addition to 5’s personal story and as a way to show the basic human nature of needing others, but I’m also kind of glad that she didn’t actually become real, because at the end of the day, she was a delusion of his, and I don’t really want to see that story. (Just my opinion; no harm meant to others who would have liked that plot.)

-Sometime around the middle of season 3, I actually remember thinking that if Aiden/ 5 had been older or Ritu/ Lila younger, I would have shipped the shit out of the characters because of their symmetry and contrasts. However, I also immediately dismissed the thought because the physical age gap IS a little weird for me. I didn’t read their scenes as necessarily romantic or sexual, so much so as they could have been if they were of the same age (at least for me).

In universe, I took it as the characters being kind of fascinated by each other, both getting enjoyment out of goading and poking at one another, but there wasn’t really genuine interest in pursuing each other either. (In hindsight of season 4, though I suppose it was really laying the groundwork for what would eventually turn romantic.)

I thought the writers were going to make Five and Lila the “platonic besties who, to a stranger, looked like they were a couple but really weren’t” and Diego and Lila were going to be the “contentious and passionate couple who argued as much as they loved”.

After season 4 though, I adjusted my thinking, and that’s kind of the basis around my opinions in the main body below.

****************

By the end of season 3, I thought Diego and Lila might have been the best relationship that was still on going. Despite that, I couldn’t bring myself to ship it either. They were never True Love/ OTP material for my tastes, because while they certainly had passion, they lacked the kind of emotional connection that would draw me in. (Don’t ask me what that is specifically because most of the time I have no idea what makes me ship one couple over another…) So, even though I think it had the most development, I also was just not attached to them as a couple.

And maybe my apathy towards them as a couple is making me biased, but Diego and Lila being unhappy with each other and their domestic life made sense to me. It was surprising, because I thought they were going to make them a “happy violent” couple, (or at least something more along the lines of what the rest of the fandom had expected) but not truly shocking either.

Diego and Lila had only known each other for about four months by the time season 3 ended. And again their actual romantic scenes mostly take place during the few days we see on screen in season 2. It might not have been as quick as a “love at first sight” arc, but it was definitely a whirlwind romance.

Also, Lila grew up under the Handler and was primed from the start to be her weapon. So, I think Lila being around Diego for months (I’m working with the assumption that she was in the institute nearly as long, if not longer than Diego) would naturally lead to her becoming infatuated with him.

After all, Diego is a handsome, good, & maybe a little bit goofy man who cares about people and justice, and loves his family; and they had a lot of passion/ sexual connotations to their scenes. I feel like he was everything she thought she ever wanted.

And it was much the same for Diego. She was the wild, manic pixie girl of his dreams whose personal brand of crazy drove him mad as well. He’s got childhood trauma, too, which he relates to with her, and I think in the beginning he kind of viewed her as both damsel in distress and partner in crime, which would appeal to his need to be a hero and his desire to not be alone.

(I’ve always thought of Diego as the most insecure of the siblings, and his need to be THE hero- not just any hero but the main star of the show kind of hero- was the way he hid from his inner insecurities and desire to fit in and be noticed.)

Season 2 was essentially Diego and Lila falling for each other despite being on opposing sides; and it’s clear that both had strong feelings for each other. Season 3 picks up immediately after and is also only a few days long. The main plot point for Diego and Lila’s relationship in this season, was essentially them deciding to give their relationship a go and establishing them as soon to be parents.

Season 3 also continues some precedents that were set in season 2, and continue in season 4. (Lila lying, Diego not noticing or misunderstanding a part of her character, Five and Lila having a side adventure/ arc on their own, and Diego noticing Lila was around Five.)

Now there are obviously more details and nuances to both seasons- showing Diego and Lila both feeling like they can open up to each other a bit more than they felt they could with others, showing their desire for a family, and to be better than their parents, establishing the fear of failure in that regards (at least for Lila) etc.

And while It might not have been my ship, I don’t want to diminish their bond either. Diego and Lila obviously had a connection and cared a great deal about each other, and were probably happy and in love for a while too. But none of that changes that fact that Diego and Lila had a whirlwind romance built amidst lies and high stakes, end-of-the-world stress, on top of an unplanned pregnancy, all within only knowing each other for 4 months at most.

And in light of that, it’s not actually surprising that when the dust settled and things were calmer, the cracks in their foundation were visible. I think they were both swept up in their connection to each other and their dreams of having a family and life better than what they had, that they never saw that maybe they weren’t quite right for each other, maybe they each needed something a little different than what the other could offer.

It’s clear in the first episode that they are not in the best of places as individuals nor as a couple. Diego hates his job and is constantly complaining about his life. He’s a bit suspicious of Lila and her whereabouts but also seems to miss, or at least underestimate, how hard things are on Lila.

Lila is visibly and verbally struggling with her role as a mother, as being too tied to that identity, and is sneaking out of the house to do undercover work and lying about it to her husband. She’s constantly badgered with Diego complaining, but also kind of fails to acknowledge that his motivation for doing a job he hates is to provide for their family.

Neither of them are truly happy with the way their lives turned out. And I think a large part of that was because they tried to change themselves to fit the mold of what they thought they should be in their dreams of a family, rather than finding a balance of being themselves with and as a family.

But there’s a disconnect between them as a couple too. From their scenes in episode 1-4, I got the impression that Diego, while clueless to Lila’s unhappiness/ struggles, nonetheless still had feelings for her because he was still trying to show off to her (the chef had the wrong technique, throwing the axes blind, holding her whilst convincing her to go on the road trip, etc.).

I got the impression that for Lila it was the opposite. She still loved him as a person and a father to her children, but she couldn’t bring herself to feel the same way she did in the previous seasons either. Every overture he made, even if it wasn’t exactly the most romantic, she met with annoyance or disdain. And while she might have laughed at him previously, she also defended him too. This season she was the one poking at him the most without defending him really at all.

Had she never got lost on that subway with Five, maybe they would have been able to work it out and it really was just a slump for them, one of the lower points in the ups and downs that every couple experiences. But (in my opinion at least) her annoyance in Diego’s attempts at reaching out and the fact that after six years she still felt the need to lie to him rather than talk about her unhappiness were more a sign that the romantic love was gone for Lila. That after the initial whirlwind romance and honeymoon period, she wasn’t quite in love with him anymore; at least, not in the “you’re my forever person” kind of way.

But I think she’s stubborn, and she so wanted a family with him, that it kept her from saying anything about what she was going through for so long. And I think Diego was totally oblivious to this in the face of his own struggles with domesticity, but I also think that maybe he was a little less in love than he thought too?

I’m of mixed opinions on this, but it felt a little weird to me that he was more upset- at least in the moment- that she went undercover than that she had potentially cheated. It could just be that in the moment he was so upset to be left out of the action that he wasn’t really thinking about how much bigger of an issue it would be had she cheated. (Or maybe cheating just isn’t as big a deal to him as it would be to me? Like I said I don’t have a good read on this…)

But I could also see it as potentially showing him having settled into his choice in loving her forever rather than truly feeling- without falter- like she was his forever person. Either way he definitely still has feelings for her, and that’s what made me so much more sad for Diego.

Especially because, in the end, it was his brother that it happened with. I feel like her choosing to save Five at the Mexican Consulate in season 2 instead of him has always sat in the back of his mind, and that’s why he’s always noticed when they are together. Of course he went through the realization that she had first used him to get close to/ watch Five, but when she came back to bring him into the Commission he knew she had genuine feelings for him too, and I don’t really think he questioned it much after that.

But it’s something that I think stayed with him, lurking in his subconscious. Knowing that when he was on a metaphorical ledge and first reached out to her for help, she chose Five instead. And that’s why he always noticed when Lila and Five were together.

Also, I think the first two greenhouse scenes spoke volumes about both (though indirectly for Diego & Lila’s) relationships. It was mentioned at least twice in season 3 that Lila’s worried about not being cut out for a maternal, domestic role, and her struggles in the beginning of season 4 probably felt like confirmation of that to her. But then we see in episode 5 that she can be happy in a softer domestic role, when she’s with the right person.

I’m 100% aware that it’s different for Lila and Diego with the kids and real world things like mortgage, school, taxes, etc. than it is for Five and Lila who only had each other & whose sole focus is on surviving and getting back to their home. I understand the nuances make a HUGE difference. But at the end of the day, for Lila they are two sucky -albeit very different kinds of sucky- situations with two different men. And she’s happier making do with one than the other.

Which brings me to the Five/ Lila portion of things. I was VERY caught off guard by the fact that the writers/ producers actually went there. As in all the way up to episode 5, I thought the writers were just making hints of Lila/ Five as a red herring, or to highlight Diego’s insecurities. But then I saw the intro to episode 5, and thought oh, they were actually building them up as a potential couple. And the greenhouse scenes sealed it for me- whatever they might say, the writers really went there and let Five and Lila fall in love.

It was both a slightly uncomfortable and a very pleasant surprise. I’m not a big fan of big age gaps, they tend to leave me feeling a little icky, but there have been several ships of mine that it happens with because I feel like it makes sense with their characters and how deep or strong their emotional connection and history is. I don’t really enjoy that aspect, but I won’t deny that there are some stories that I just accept it & move on (notably book canon Braime for me).

Five and Lila is worse simply because Five is in the body of a 13 year old in the first three seasons, and that’s just a firm no all around for me. But his mind was that of a 58 year old and just because he’s had a weird thing happen to him, doesn’t mean that he suddenly can’t think or feel like any other adult does (I’m honestly kind of thankful they did at least wait, because it would have felt wrong to me when he was physically 13, despite knowing he was much older mentally).

It also helps that that kind of mentally older, physically younger character at some point take on “vampire rules” for me (as in the contrast between mental and physical age of some vampire/ immortal/ supernatural character and their human love interest is so absurd and abstract that it somehow cancels out for me).

And by the time there’s any kind of romantically intimate scenes between the two, Five is 25/26. And even though it’s heavily implied they slept together, all that’s actually shown are a couple of fairly tame kisses.

Furthermore, they’re both mentally adults, and had it ever reset to a timeline without any time travel involved, Lila and Five would probably be the same age (all the super power kids were born on the same day after all). So it’s really not that big of an issue when they actually do get together.

The other aspect that makes me a little uncomfortable about Five and Lila is of course, Diego and Lila’s relationship. I already mentioned that it wasn’t necessarily something I personally shipped, but it was the relationship I think the audience members were most familiar with, and them having a family and still technically being together, made it a little sad to see Five and Lila happy with each other.

I would have personally preferred the writers completely dissolve the Diego/ Lila relationship before actually having Five/ Lila get together, because I’m not a huge fan of cheating storylines, especially when there’s kids involved.

I also feel like they could have hit most of the same emotional beats even if they had let Diego and Lila divorce first? Like it still would have been an emotionally charged reveal scene at the house if Diego had something along the lines of “that was my wife, we only divorced a week ago” or “you’re my brother and she was my wife, what the hell!?”. But I actually think the writers were trying to leave the “end game” couple up to interpretation, which felt too much like a cop out to me.

I think most audience members just needed more screen time of all three & that would have helped quell some of the hate Five & Lila get. We needed more time to see how Diego and Lila’s romance fizzled and died out, and more time to feel the weight of the 6.5 years on the subway building to Five and Lila’s romance.

I think it would have been better received if they had a fourth, fifth, and side season, or made this fourth season extra long (like 12-16 episodes) with a split release (first in August, and the latter half of the episodes during Christmas time) with a mini or side season (or even a movie) of just Five and Lila’s subway adventures. Kind of like how they did a Queen Charlotte story between seasons of Bridgerton.

There would always be some who refused to like it because of the age gap, or because they just prefer Diego/Lila or Five & Lila as purely platonic; but I think more time would have helped shorten the list of haters at least a little (and given the writers an opportunity to work the kinks out of more of the storylines in general).

Like I said earlier I’m not a big fan of the cheating aspect of their relationship, but I also don’t entirely think it’s fair the way so many people seem to view it as Five “letting Lila betray his brother with him” or “Five not caring about his brother is so OOC. He’d never betray Diego just to fuck”.. Because from what I watched, that’s not what happened at all??

Putting aside the “letting her cheat” (because they’re all grown ass adults and no one is responsible for someone else’s actions) I don’t get how people don’t see the love that grew between Five and Lila. Lila might be saying verbally that it was “only survival” and that “it’s over”, but her actions, expressions, and tones all scream love and care and affection.

I think Lila was a little confused when she gets back, but it’s also very obvious that she loves Five in the same way it was obvious in season 2 that Lila was downplaying her interest and affection/ love for Diego when she said “nah” to killing him like the Handler suggested.

And it’s the same for Five. If it had only been a physical or lonely thing, I don’t really think it would have happened. It’s because it was Lila, who is so similar and so opposite him in equal measure that he fell in love with her. And it’s because he loves her that he would want to pursue a full relationship with her. The fact that they’re human and gave into their feelings rather than uphold moral standards wasn’t that crazy of an idea, especially given the somewhat murky circumstances. It was never about purposefully hurting Diego or not caring about him.

Them getting together was two damaged people put in extraordinary circumstances with only each other to rely on for years, without any knowledge of how long they would be alone, surviving through hardships and growing in love. Or at least, that’s how I interpreted their relationship from what we got to see.

None of that felt out of character for either of them to me. Everything through the first two greenhouse scenes (minus a few dialogue/ scripting issues) felt pretty in character to me, all things considered. What did feel wrong and out of character for me was Five hiding the journal for months and him saying he wants to kill Diego and physically fighting him, while the rest of their family fought the Bennifer Blob monster.

I get wanting to show Five struggling with the decision to prioritize the world because for the first time he’s actually experienced love and happiness with a real person; plus they already started him on the do “not save the world” mindset last season. But they could have executed that in a much better way than having him find and hide a cypher book that would take them back home.

[Hell, even within the scene, he could have found it sometime that same morning or within the past couple of days and it would change literally nothing about their argument except the length of time he’s had the journal- because his actions are literally never addressed!]

But while it could just be an expansion of him not wanting to lose the happiness he found, and faltering in his steadfast determinedness to do right by the world and be with his family, it still feels off to his character for me. (Obviously the writers disagree with my interpretation of his character though.)

For me, even though he would grapple with the decision, Five would, in the end at least, still have chosen to go back to save his family & the world because that is so central to him as character. What I think they should have done was have him find it right after or before her gifting him the instant coffee. Have him open the conversation that he found it and Lila being so excited that she initially missed his internal conflict.

It could pan to her realizing what it means to go back, and them having a short talk about it. Lila could say they have to go back because of her kids, they have to go back to save their family. And Five could say he knows but he was happy there with her, and a part of him didn’t want to leave. She could have said she was happy too, but flinched when he went to hold her hand and that could have prompted the start of the argument.

The argument itself could still keep to the core of what it was in the show with only a few dialogue changes, and it would hit all the same emotional tones of the scene but without feeling like Five’s core motivations as a character were totally flipped on its head. Again, that’s just my opinion on it.

I do feel like Five being jealous and lashing out at Diego a bit during the Christmas reveal was in line with how Five might react in that situation. After all, he gets more sarcastic, testy, and even manic with the more stress he’s under. The bracelet line from Diego should have been reworded though. I’m not sure if it was lazy writing, or if they were rushed and/or overlooking things because of the episode cut, but that felt off.

They could have just as easily had him say, “you hate bracelets now” or “you never wear bracelets anymore” before mentioning the traded Valentine’s bracelet, and it still would have shown the disconnect between Diego and Lila in their relationship. A blanket “you hate bracelets” after we had- for two seasons- seen her wear the one he made that she nabbed in season 2 just felt like poor script writing.

And I would be 100% down for the first initial shoves of their fight had that been as far as it went before Five or Diego said they bigger things to worry about and the other passive-aggressively agreed.

Or better yet, if their confrontation happened after the family escaped to Luthor’s, so that the writers could still have Five run off to the subway without having him & Diego, in a sense and literally by Five, abandoning their family & acting stupid in the midst of battle. Because that felt weird and out of character for both of them to me.

I also very much needed a scene where Five apologizes to Diego at least that he hurt him (but not necessarily for loving Lila) and Diego not necessarily forgiving Five, but at least acknowledging him before they died. Because letting things be so unresolved between them and then erasing them from existence was cruel.

All that being said, I very much loved Five and Lila’s relationship with each other. Their dynamic outside of the actual storyline is the perfect mix of enemies to lovers and two broken souls finding solace in each other. And while I do wish they had changed or tweaked a few things, their story was still rather tragically beautiful.

I also firmly believe that had they all survived, Five & Lila probably would have been end game. I think the set up for them was too deep (even if a little too rushed with the episode limit/ being the final season) for Lila to truly be able to go back to Diego. If pushed too much too soon, I think she’d probably try for the sake of the kids. But the unhappiness with each other/ their life together even before the subway time-skip, coupled with the distrust and hurt that comes when a partner cheats, isn’t something I really think Diego and Lila are strong enough as a couple to overcome. And that could have led to even more bitterness and resentment before they finally called it quits.

However, if given enough time, I think Lila would have pulled back from both of them for a bit to figure out what she wanted and focus on her kids, herself, and any ongoing apocalypse situation if there were still one. I think she would have come to the realization that she loves Diego and would always care for him, but that she was no longer in love with him. That when she pictures the rest of her life, it’s Five she wants beside her.

Maybe she procrastinates a bit on talking about it, because she hates the situation and doesn’t want to hurt either one of them, but eventually they’d sort themselves out. But I also think she and Five would have to have a long conversation about taking her choices from her, especially if it involves her kids, because hiding the book was a fairly big betrayal and not something I think she could totally ignore, like they did in the show. (I personally hated that it was even a part of the story to begin with, but Five hiding the journal really needed to be addressed. I hope it would have been if the had more time.)

& If this was along the lines of what they were going to do with the plot if they were to get another season or two, I hope the writers would have used this to let Diego spiral a bit, before confronting his underlying insecurities and moving past it all. Hopefully with a new love interest at some point that is as perfect as can be for him, because I don’t like him sad and he deserves love and a happily ever after too.

On a side note, one thing that I thought was cute & slightly amusing out of context, but firmly believe should have been left on the cutting room floor was the entirety of the van/ “You’re family needs you; I need you” scene. And I know they kept it in to push the uncertainty of the Five/ Lila and Diego/ Lila relationships, but this was too obviously a plot device for the love triangle that just wasn’t believable for me narratively speaking.

Because with Allison’s new powers, Klaus’ ability to raise ghosts that were corporeal, & Diego’s telekinesis with redirecting multiple bullets, what do you mean there were too many enemies for them to handle? And how am I supposed to believe that in the past seven years, Five, who was canonically shot at and chased, never took the time to practice and remaster his blinking abilities?

Especially since they established in episode 4, and earlier in episode 6 when he and Lila returned to the house, that he could apparently- and accurately- time travel over large stretches of time without any issues/ struggles. Not to mention that mere minutes later inside the department store, he’s able blink to the second floor without any problem?

Whatever issues or enjoyment I had with the way they had Five and Lila and Diego’s story unfold, most of it just came down to personal preference, tweaking the script, and needing more episodes. But this scene in particular just felt silly and pointless to me. They could have had Lila say “I need you” in a show of concern, or physically reaching out to Five instead of Diego; only to say the “it’s over” line a few scenes later and it still would have pushed the “who does she choose” narrative. But the fact that the love triangle never gets truly resolved either, makes all of it fall flat, in my opinion. (I thought on first watch that the “it’s over” line was just about the fight and misunderstood by Five, but it could have been about their relationship too. And now we’ll probably never know for sure because they didn’t resolve anything in any of their relationships to each other 😢)

All that being said though, this is a slightly whacky show about very messed up people, who do very messy things all the time- I shouldn’t be surprised they went for the messiest option for how to handle this love triangle…

[hollowed-theory-hall]

Justice for Barty Crouch Jr: Part 2/2

(Part 1)

So, what was Barty's plan? Why did he care about Harry? And what about what he said under Veratiserum?

What I'm going to do is go through the final scenes in the GoF relevant to Barty's characterization and then write down all the conclusions together. For more of the evidence that led me to this point, see Part 1.

After The Third Task

Barty (as Moody) takes Harry away to his office the moment he returns with the cup. And there are quite a few interesting things to note in this scene...

“In here, Harry . . . in here, and sit down. . . . You’ll be all right now . . . drink this. . . .” Harry heard a key scrape in a lock and felt a cup being pushed into his hands. “Drink it . . . you’ll feel better . . . come on, now, Harry, I need to know exactly what happened. . . .” Moody helped tip the stuff down Harry’s throat; he coughed, a peppery taste burning his throat. Moody’s office came into sharper focus, and so did Moody himself. . . . He looked as white as Fudge had looked, and both eyes were fixed unblinkingly upon Harry’s face. “Voldemort’s back, Harry? You’re sure he’s back? How did he do it?” “He took stuff from his father’s grave, and from Wormtail, and me,” said Harry. His head felt clearer; his scar wasn’t hurting so badly; he could now see Moody’s face distinctly, even though the office was dark. He could still hear screaming and shouting from the distant Quidditch field. “What did the Dark Lord take from you?” said Moody. “Blood,” said Harry, raising his arm. His sleeve was ripped where Wormtail’s dagger had torn it. Moody let out his breath in a long, low hiss. “And the Death Eaters? They returned?” “Yes,” said Harry. “Loads of them . . .” “How did he treat them?” Moody asked quietly. “Did he forgive them?” But Harry had suddenly remembered. He should have told Dumbledore, he should have said it straightaway — “There’s a Death Eater at Hogwarts! There’s a Death Eater here — they put my name in the Goblet of Fire, they made sure I got through to the end —” Harry tried to get up, but Moody pushed him back down. “I know who the Death Eater is,” he said quietly.

(Goblet of Fire, pages 673-674)

Now, this scene is after Voldemort came back. Barty is about to tell Harry he's the death Eater who put his name in the goblet. I already covered how he didn't actually act like Moody throughout the book, and I don't expect him to start now once the charade is over. So, in this scene, we have Barty at his most honest. Just him and Harry.

and what is the first thing he does?

Give Harry a Pepperup Potion.

The peppery, burning taste Harry describes along with the calming effect after he drank it fit the description of the Peperup Potion. It's a healing and warming potion meant for the common cold, but would generally make the drinker feel better. What's interesting here, is that the first thing Barty does is give Harry a healing potion, why? he's about to reveal himself; all he needs is for Harry to tell him if Voldemort is back or not, he doesn't need Harry calm for that, not really. He still goes out of his way to help Harry, even once he really doesn't have to.

The second bolded part is Harry's description of Moody. He is pale and terrified. Why is he scared? Harry already told him Voldemort returned, isn't that what he wanted?

Well, I don't think so. I think that the fear he sees on Barty/Moody, that is a fear of Voldemort. He fears Voldemort's return just like Fudge (well, maybe not just like, but you get the gist). Barty proceeds to assert Voldemort is indeed back. And he's scared by Harry's answer that yes, he is.

He then asks about the Death Eaters, and some of it is still his envy, but part of it now, is fear. He knows another war is coming and he's scared. He doesn't actually want the death and torture. The only death he actually wanted was his own father's, not anyone else's. Not even Harry's.

I think Barty is similar to Regulus in that respect.

He joined the Death Eaters willingly, for his own personal reasons (spiting his father, rebelling against him, but also trying to get his father's attention), and then realized what he got into and had no way out. And even worse, he ended up in Azkaban for it, for Death Eater crimes, he personally didn't commit.

I mean, why would Barty hiss in sympathetic pain at seeing Harry's injury moments before he tells him he's a Death Eater? The only explanation is that it's real. That it isn't an act. That he does sympathize with Harry's pain and doesn't want this 14-year-old hurt.

Look at how he says he knows who the Death Eater is. It almost looks like regret and shame. Because it might very well be just that.

And what does he do then, after he tells Harry? You'd expect a loyal Death Eater to take him straight to Voldemort, maybe kill him himself. But that's not what Barty does. Barty starts monologing:

“You didn’t . . . it — it can’t be you. . . .” “Who put your name in the Goblet of Fire, under the name of a different school? I did. Who frightened off every person I thought might try to hurt you or prevent you from winning the tournament? I did. Who nudged Hagrid into showing you the dragons? I did. Who helped you see the only way you could beat the dragon? I did.” Moody’s magical eye had now left the door. It was fixed upon Harry. His lopsided mouth leered more widely than ever.

(Goblet of Fire, page 676)

Barty explains to Harry everything that he did. Every part of the ploy he was so obvious about it's a wonder Dumbledore didn't call him out. But why? What's the point in telling Harry if he's about to die?

I wondered this and I noticed the sentence I bolded. His magical eye was looking at the door.

So what? he was watching to see if he had time to kill Harry. He couldn't kill him if he got caught.

The thing is, I think it's the opposite. I think Barty planned to get caught. I mean, why else would he spend so long monologing? He's buying time.

Moody’s wand was still pointing directly at Harry’s heart. Over his shoulder, foggy shapes were moving in the Foe-Glass on the wall.

...

The foggy shapes in the Foe-Glass were sharpening, had become more distinct. Harry could see the outlines of three people over Moody’s shoulder, moving closer and closer. But Moody wasn’t watching them. His magical eye was upon Harry.

(Goblet of Fire, pages 677-678)

Moody's eye is magical, if the Foe-Glass saw the professors coming, Barty saw them too when he looked at the door. And yes, he's pointing his wand at Harry, but he isn't actually doing anything. Just pointing it and buying time, like he's waiting for Dumbledore to arrive and stop him.

The same way he bought time this whole year. I think the reason the plan took the whole year to execute was mostly this. Barty had plenty of opportunities to get Harry to Voldemort, but he didn't. No, instead he helped him through all the tasks while doing a really bad job of acting like Moody. I think he took so long because he wanted to be caught. He hoped someone would catch him and stop Voldemort from returning — Dumbledore mostly.

After all, we see Barty is scared of Voldemort's return, not joyous.

Veratiserum

So, now we need to talk about the scene where he was questioned under Veratiserum. Veratiserum is a truth serum that forces the drinker to only speak the truth.

A note about the evidence received with the use of the Veratiserum: The potion can't be legally used for testimony since some wizards can resist it. It is considered: "unfair and unreliable to use at a trial". This is the same as lie detectors (like a polygraph test) being generally not admissible as evidence in court here in the real world.

As such, anything Barty says under the influence of Veratiserum comes with the caveat of it potentially being a lie. Considering he did learn to resist the Imperius Curse marginally and thought Harry to resist it as well, it is possible he can resist Veratiserum as well. We even see hints, that he potentially does resist it.

Crouch’s son opened his eyes. His face was slack, his gaze unfocused. Dumbledore knelt before him, so that their faces were level. “Can you hear me?” Dumbledore asked quietly. The man’s eyelids flickered. “Yes,” he muttered.

(Goblet of Fire, page 683)

Here we have the description of how someone should look under the effects of Veratiserum. The drinker would have a blank face and expression, gaze not focused on anything. They are emotionless and hazy. Remember that description for later.

“And what did your father do with you, when he had got you home?” said Dumbledore quietly. “Staged my mother’s death. A quiet, private funeral. That grave is empty. The house-elf nursed me back to health. Then I had to be concealed. I had to be controlled. My father had to use a number of spells to subdue me. When I had recovered my strength, I thought only of finding my master . . . of returning to his service.” “How did your father subdue you?” said Dumbledore. “The Imperius Curse,” Crouch said. “I was under my father’s control. I was forced to wear an Invisibility Cloak day and night. I was always with the house-elf. She was my keeper and caretaker. She pitied me. She persuaded my father to give me occasional treats. Rewards for my good behavior.”

(Goblet of Fire, pages 684-685)

This is Barty's explanation of how his father controlled him with the Imperius. But I want to point out one odd part here. The part I outlined is odd because Barty hesitates. there are three dots indicating a pause like he is considering his words, something that shouldn't be possible under Veratiserum. And notice what he talks about when it happens. He talks about Voldemort.

I am uncertain why he would choose to lie about that... I assume it's out of fear. Knowing the way Voldemort tracked down and killed Karkaroff when he turned traitor, I assume Barty knew his fate would be the same if he betrayed Voldemort. After a whole year of trying to get Dumbledore to notice he wasn't acting like his friend, Moody, and failing, I don't think he trusted Dumbledore's ability to protect him from Voldemort.

This is also why he didn't just openly tell Dumbledore what was going on. He was scared of a fate much worse than what the ministry would throw at him if he was found by Voldemort to be a traitor. But also, if he turned traitor, nothing would stop Voldemort from sending someone else to finish Barty's mission, someone who'd actually want to do it. By pretending to be loyal, Barty is ensuring he can buy Harry time. Time, Dumbledore isn't using.

“Now it was just Father and I, alone in the house. And then . . . and then . . .” Crouch’s head rolled on his neck, and an insane grin spread across his face. “My master came for me. “He arrived at our house late one night in the arms of his servant Wormtail. My master had found out that I was still alive. He had captured Bertha Jorkins in Albania. He had tortured her. She told him a great deal. She told him about the Triwizard Tournament. She told him the old Auror, Moody, was going to teach at Hogwarts. He tortured her until he broke through the Memory Charm my father had placed upon her. She told him I had escaped from Azkaban. She told him my father kept me imprisoned to prevent me from seeking my master. And so my master knew that I was still his faithful servant — perhaps the most faithful of all. My master conceived a plan, based upon the information Bertha had given him. He needed me. He arrived at our house near midnight. My father answered the door.” The smile spread wider over Crouch’s face, as though recalling the sweetest memory of his life. Winky’s petrified brown eyes were visible through her fingers. She seemed too appalled to speak.

(Goblet of Fire, pages 687-688)

Again, before talking about Voldemort, he thinks of his words. He stutters and pauses his speech. He changes his expression, he's grinning. Veratiserum should keep the drinker's faces slack and emotionless. To me, this indicates something suspicious, not Barty's insanity.

Especially when considering his behavior throughout the books that indicates he's trying to sabotage Voldemort's resurrection.

“And what did Lord Voldemort ask you to do?” said Dumbledore. “He asked me whether I was ready to risk everything for him. I was ready. It was my dream, my greatest ambition, to serve him, to prove myself to him. He told me he needed to place a faithful servant at Hogwarts. A servant who would guide Harry Potter through the Triwizard Tournament without appearing to do so. A servant who would watch over Harry Potter. Ensure he reached the Triwizard Cup. Turn the cup into a Portkey, which would take the first person to touch it to my master. But first —” “You needed Alastor Moody,” said Dumbledore

(Goblet of Fire, page 688)

Again, his speech is odd for Veratiserum. He speaks with convection and emotion, repeating his statements, his language is more flowery and not short and truthful, all things I wouldn't expect from someone dosed with Veratiserum.

Also, risk everything? What did Barty have to risk? He was a prisoner under the Imperius Curse in his father's basement. He had nowhere worse he could go.

He was desperate to leave the hell that was his life for 12 years, he'll tell Voldemort anything he wanted to hear. And, well, it's not like he could say no to Voldemort, could he?

“For a week I waited for my father to arrive at Hogwarts. At last, one evening, the map showed my father entering the grounds. I pulled on my Invisibility Cloak and went down to meet him. He was walking around the edge of the forest. Then Potter came, and Krum. I waited. I could not hurt Potter; my master needed him. Potter ran to get Dumbledore. I Stunned Krum. I killed my father.”

...

“You killed your father,” Dumbledore said, in the same soft voice. “What did you do with the body?” “Carried it into the forest. Covered it with the Invisibility Cloak. I had the map with me. I watched Potter run into the castle. He met Snape. Dumbledore joined them. I watched Potter bringing Dumbledore out of the castle. I walked back out of the forest, doubled around behind them, went to meet them. I told Dumbledore Snape had told me where to come. “Dumbledore told me to go and look for my father. I went back to my father’s body. Watched the map. When everyone was gone, I Transfigured my father’s body. He became a bone . . . I buried it, while wearing the Invisibility Cloak, in the freshly dug earth in front of Hagrid’s cabin.”

(Goblet of Fire, pages 690-691)

I have two main notes about this part. The first is about not hurting Harry because Voldemort needs him. That explanation is bullshit. Barty said he stunned Krum, nothing stopped him from stunning Harry, it wouldn't have actually harmed him. A single, not very powerful stunner would've been nothing. I wouldn't really consider it harmful. Barty just didn't stun Hary because he didn't want to.

The second is when he speaks about how he hid his father's body. The reason I bolded it, is because it shows Barty is reasonable (to a degree) and intelligent. He is magically talented enough and smart enough to come up with a great plan to get away with his father's murder. It shows that all the odd inconsistencies, his choice not to act like Moody, to help Harry when he doesn't have to, to not stun Harry with a stupid senseless excuse, monologing to give Dumbledore time to catch him — it was all deliberate.

He's too intelligent for it not to be deliberate. And here too, we see that pause again. Like he was considering whether to reveal where his father was buried or not. He decided to reveal it because they could dig up the bone and check his testimony, and he needed them to believe him. So he had to be mostly truthful, just cover up some of the minor details, like what he thought about Voldemort.

I believe, that when he chose to get caught, he knew he was likely to die. But a quick death is probably better than the treatment of a traitor Death Eater.

Conclusions

Barty Crouch Jr didn't torture the Longbottoms.

He joined the Death Eaters to spite his father. He realized he was not cut out for it, but it was too late, he was already marked.

He was then sent to Azkaban for a crime he did not commit. He was then broken out only for his father to keep him imprisoned. Both weighed on his psyche heavily.

In the Quidditch World Cup, Hermione theorizes the person who cast the Dark Mark tried to scare the attackers away — she was probably right and that was Barty's intention.

He didn't go searching for Voldemort, Voldemort came for him, not giving him a choice but to comply.

So he went to Hogwarts, but he went far beyond necessary to protect Harry and encourage him. Along with giving him advice that Harry continues living by even after learning Barty's true identity. Showing Barty did truly care for Harry, at least to some degree.

His plan, during the year, had two layers: The first was to ruin his father's reputation (the reputation his father cared about more than his son). The second is to drag Voldemort's mission for him as long as possible with the hope of alerting Dumbledore without alerting Voldemort. All this while helping Harry along the way as much as he could without revealing to Voldemort he is a traitor.

Barty was terrified of Voldemort's return and actively worked against it, if in a limited way.

When what he feared (Voldemort's return) did come to pass, he bought as much time as he could, at the cost of his own life, so Harry and he could get the word out.

[lieutenantfloyd]

heyyy so i just read the rooster sfw alphabet and i was wondering if u could do one for mr hangman? if not it’s totally ok! have a great day or night :)))

SFW Alphabet — Jake "Hangman" Seresin

Pairing: Jake "Hangman" Seresin x reader

Warnings: mentions of alcohol, jealousy, etc

a/n: A year later, and I'm finally in my Hangman era.

Also If you haven't yet, please check out the general Hangman headcanons I posted a while ago, as it gives a bit more context to my characterization of him!

a- asking (Who's the first person to confess and how does it happen?)

Jake will ask you out (or offer to take you home) first but when it comes to actual confessions of feelings, you'll need to initiate it. I truly believe that once Jake begins to fall for someone, he panics. He has no idea what to do with these feelings and will need you to take the reigns.

B - Butterflies (How they act when they're nervous.)

Do you think Hangman is cocky with a strong streak of narcissism now? A nervous Jake is an infinite amount worse, as he uses his already contentious traits as the ultimate defense mechanism.

c- cuddles (What is their favorite cuddling position? Do they like physical touch?)

Given the correct circumstances, I fully see Hangman as being very cuddly. Particularly when he's sleepy, drunk, or just returning from deployment. Once Jake is in a relationship where he feels safe and secure, he becomes more than a bit clingy as well.

d- domesticity (Are they the type to settle down with you? Are they willing to help with chores? What is your daily routine with them?)

Contrary to popular belief, Jake is 100% the type to settle down. Furthermore, he's the type to have the full American dream. Several kids and a nice white picket fence included. As far as domestic chores go, he was raised in a very traditional household where the men did none of the housework. Once he settles down though, he wants to help out but doesn't know where to start. Instead, he throws himself into more "masculine" chores, like mowing the lawn and paying the bills.  While it'll take a bit of time (and patience on your part) for him to break the habit, soon he'll be cooking, cleaning, and caretaking better than you could've ever dreamed of.

e- encouragement (Do they encourage you to achieve your goals? If so, how do they support you?)

If there's one thing Jake can do, it's hyping someone up. Once you're in a relationship, all bets are off and he instantly becomes your personal hype man. There's even been a few times he nearly got himself kicked out of an event for being too rowdy. Whether it's celebrating a major life goal or completing your weekly shopping, Jake will be by your side cheering you on.

f- favorite thing(s) about you (What are their favorite personality traits/physical features about you?)

He loves how you challenge him and push him to be a better man.

g- goofiness (Do they like to make you laugh? How often do they joke around with you?)

He's the type of man to make a complete fool of himself just to make you crack a smile. Ego be damned.

h- honesty (Would they lie to you? How much do they share with you?)

While I don't think he's a liar, he does have a tendency to spin things in his favor to avoid conflict. This is especially true early on in your relationship before he feels fully comfortable. Once you two start building a life together, this habit disappears completely.

i- i love you (how fast do they say the L-Word?) 

I can see this being a pretty big point of contention in your relationship. It's not that Jake doesn't love you (he's actually head or heels boots for you) it's just that those same insecurities keep bubbling up. His heart all but begs him you say those three words to you, but his head keeps winning out. What If you don't feel the same? What if he scares you off? What if you laugh in his face? Vulnerability is far from his strong suit, so this can only end up one of two ways. If you say it first: He'll give you the biggest, widest smile and pull you into the tightest hug. It's not lost to him how a few tears spill as he echoes those three words. If it turns into a big blowout fight: Only to end up spilling his guts while dodging your eyes, silently praying to whatever is out there that he made the right choice.

j- jealousy (Are they the type of person to get jealous? If so, how do they react to being jealous?)

Hangman, for better or worse, is jealous as the day is long. It all stems from several poorly hidden insecurities. A major one is that deep down he's always waiting on the other shoe to drop, as he believes that he doesn't deserve you. Jealous Jake is explosive, flippant, and often downright mean. This is especially true if he's at the hard deck and has had a drink or two. On a good day, he'll stomp around the bar and give you the silent treatment. On a bad day, he'll be going toe to toe with whoever gives you more than a passing glance.

k- kissing (Where do they like to kiss you? How frequently do they like to kiss?)

In public, he's an old school, arm around your shoulder, kisses in your hair kinda guy. In private he's a big fan of sneaking up behind you and giving you a few kisses on your neck.

l- love language (What's their love language?)

Words of affirmation. His less-than-stellar childhood paired with his career in the armed forces has left him craving the particular type of love only words of affection can give. Just a mere "Have fun!" Text, when he goes out with Javy, is enough to make his heart pound happily in his chest.

m- marriage (Do they want to marry you eventually? Who proposes to who?)

As mentioned in letter D, he's the all-American type, and marriage is just another aspect of that. I don't see him doing a big planned proposal though. Instead, he'll end up asking for your hand while you're like, washing the dishes (or something equally as mundane). He's actually been thinking about it for like two years but he's too nervous to say anything, but this time the thought of his wife washing the dishes in his house was too much to bear

n- nicknames (What do they call you? What do you call them?)

He calls you: Sugar, Doll, cupcake, or anything else sickeningly sweet You call him: Honey, Darling, Jakey, Jay... Cowboy and/or Tex when you want to get on his nerves

o- openness (How much do they tell you about themselves? Do they reveal everything at once or gradually throughout the relationship?)

You wouldn't be a fool to think Jake has told you everything. Lord knows that man loves to talk about himself. Yet if you look hard enough, you'll see inklings of a deeper, darker story lying beneath. Despite this, you won't press him about it. It stays in the back of your mind until one day, when the sun shines just right, he'll choose to reveal every part of his backstory to you.

p- PDA (Are they affectionate in public or do they prefer to keep your kisses behind closed doors? Are they the type to brag about their SO?)

One thing that surprises you when you first start going out with him is that he's shockingly shy when it comes to PDA, especially around those that know him best. As your relationship grows he'll be a bit more lenient when it comes to ODA, but he'll still always prefer to keep the larger displays of affection behind closed doors.

q- quality time (how do they like to spend time with you?)

Paintball, hiking, axe throwing... He likes to try new activities or do something physical. Really, anything that allows him to be a show off.

r- romance (Are they the romantic type? If so, how do they express their feelings?)

Hangman is the most accidentally romantic man you'll ever meet. On any random Thursday, he'll cook dinner, string up fairy lights in the backyard, and hire a string quartet. Not to be romantic, just because he thinks you'll find it cool.

s- security (How protective are they of you? If they are, how do they show this?)

Hangman would quite literally both kill and die for the people he loves. Luckily, in everyday life, he takes a more chill approach to things and is instead very trustworthy and dependable.

t- turn-offs (What traits do they find unattractive?)

Jake is a son of Texas through and through, and is immediately turned off by anyone who is disrespectful and lacks manners. Oh, and anyone who supports Aggie football.

u- understanding (Are they good at sympathizing with your problems? Do they listen to you when you need to rant?)

He's decently understanding. If you're prone to more emotional responses, he may struggle a bit with that. Nonetheless, he will always sympathize and/or let you rant to him if need be.

v- value (What do they value most about your relationship?)

Having someone in his corner. With his choice of career, he understands better than most the importance of having someone you can depend on no matter what.

w- wild card (A random headcanon about your relationship)

Hat. Rule. If you're going out with Jake, his nice white cowboy hat will inevitably become a staple of your wardrobe.

x- x-ray (How well are they able to read you?)

When it comes to emotional labor, he is more than a bit oblivious. He'll even admit that it is a foreign concept to him. Like other areas of your relationship, give him some grace and a few pointers and he'll figure it out soon enough.

y- yearning (How well do they cope when their SO isn't with them?)

It takes a while for your absence to sink in. After it does, his ego won't let him admit he's in shambles without you. Unfortunately, anyone who has the (dis)pleasure of being in his presence during this time Is well aware. Javy has even taken it upon himself to alert the rest of the squad when you leave town, etc so they can prepare.

z- zappy (Are they fast-paced in a relationship? Or do they like to take things slow?)

A relationship with Jake will start off as an achingly slow burn. But give him time and your unwavering love, and before you know it, you'll have a full-on forest fire.

[connorjared]

there are so many things I could say and back up with my annotations but there are some things I want to say

- connor is an unreliable narrator, but in an interesting way. unlike evan, connor's text is purposely written like he's trying to seem WORSE than he is. that's why I think rereading the book as an adult (especially if you have worked with kids) is so incredibly tragic. it's easier to see every way he was utterly failed both personally and systemically when you are no longer the child being failed personally and systemically

- connor is canonically a victim of the troubled teen industry and says it was BETTER than rehab. this genuinely breaks my heart because you can catch little pieces of CPTSD throughout his text and dialogue—he becomes extremely defensive and assumes evan is "tricking him into looking crazy," he states relief there's no longer anyone "waiting around the corner to catch him or check for red in his eyes" this child was treated like a criminal and the one place he felt safe in was removed when he chose to take the blame for something that he didn't do (see below)

- connor taking the fall for his... situationshipfriend miguel because he knew his parents were rich enough and he was white enough to get a more lenient punishment for WEED (which. the criminalization of that and the stigma is a whole OTHER thing) this haunts me. the act itself is noble, unhealthily self sacrificing, but that's not what gets me. his proclaimed friend not only allows him to do this, but even after connor GOES TO REHAB FOR HIM miguel doesn't tell his own mom the truth, causing her to ban the two of them hanging out and connor LOSES his only safe space right after undergoing rehab that he never even needed

- connor canonically has been put on and off multiple medications , we unfortunately don't know when this started but we DO know it was not in his control. SSRIs take a long time to work and shouldn't be switched quickly even for adults, let alone teenagers, and they ESPECIALLY should not be used as stand-ins for accommodations of a disability. there's far more I could say about other medications this might have been such as an SNRI (which connor has said to have less than favorable opinions of) and this is possibly even MORE concerning

- there has been a BUZZ on tiktok about how zoe was a girl icon for being forced to mourn her "abusive brother" and while they definitely had a toxic sibling dynamic fed by their toxic parental dynamic, the idea the toxicity was one sided is just... wrong. not even subjectively, the narrative WANTS you to know this is wrong, at least in the book. the musical... lets just say, im glad they wrote the book. it doesn't undo the honestly pretty shit messaging of the musical, but it adds context that helps derail claims like the one above that add further stigma to victims of suicide. zoe is verbally degrading to connor in recollections and in the small amount of time we hear her speak about him (though, this does change as her character develops throughout the book and she begins to mourn him properly.) zoe is a glass child. she resents all of the negative attention connor received because she didn't get any attention at all. so, she often sides with larry through the book, who is said to have more or less gotten tired of connor and considered him attention seeking, which would be something INCREDIBLY validating for a glass child to hear. zoe is, unfortunately and ironically, often written with detail but no substance. evan, who I could talk about at length and very angrily, constantly prattles small things he notices about her—but, and im not sure if this is the author's intention or not, she barely gets any true characterization outside of her interactions with others, which strangely almost makes her a side character (which i suppose she is) but there are some core parts of HER identity and her character alone that can be picked up throughout the book and i could go on for hours about that and i will not now but i will

- i didn't even touch on cynthia and larry and their abuse (yes! people can love their children and be abusive) but by god i will. by god

dear evan hansen fandom please interact. if u disagree i will probably point an autism beam at you in the form of a personally crafted video essay on why I am right and you are wrong. I have read this book inside and out

[marley-manson]

what evidence do you have that bj and hawkeye are only friends because they are "trapped in an army base" and "hawkeye doesn't have any better options"?

tbf I didn't say they're only friends because they're trapped on an army base, I said BJ only gets away with his late season shit because they're trapped on an army base. That said, I do think if they'd met anywhere else, like at a medical conference, they wouldn't have become friends, and yeah the way they clash in the later seasons, I don't think they'd stay friends if Hawkeye wasn't stuck with him.

My evidence is:

Hawkeye describing BJ as a good clean-cut family man and adding "Despite that, I really like the guy," in Our Finest Hour, indicating that on a surface level they're not that compatible. On a deeper level of incompatibility, you have episodes like Preventative Medicine where they clash on a deep ethical level and don't reconcile their points, they simply choose to drop the argument. You also have their respective attitudes to hardship as highlighted in later seasons - BJ "saves [his] pshaws for things he can do something about," and largely remains passive give or take moments of sudden lashing out (eg the end of Back Pay) when he loses his self control, while Hawkeye is always acting on his feelings as much as possible whether he can affect change or not, because it helps him not feel helpless. BJ derides and mocks this attitude (calling him crazy in Back Pay and Tell it To the Marines, calling his tongue depressor tower pointless in Depressing News, etc) and Hawkeye ignores him and does what he needs to do anyway. They do not help each other see eye to eye or meet in the middle, they simply clash and do their own thing.

More headcanony, but I also think they're incompatible emotionally, in that Hawkeye wants people to open up to him and spill their feelings, and BJ is one of the characters most allergic to doing that, and almost never supports Hawkeye when he wants to talk about his feelings (Blood and Guts, Depressing News, GFA, etc). They have a very uneven relationship where Hawkeye is BJ's emotional support whenever BJ snaps, but BJ ditches Hawkeye when Hawkeye just needs his emotional support (this is what "Would you hold me in your arms or would you let me lie there and bleed?" is about), and I think BJ tries to make up for this with big gestures, but Hawkeye is more about the day to day support and solidarity with each other.

There's also the intensity of the rebound vibe in Welcome to Korea part 1 where Hawkeye refocuses on BJ after moping about Trapper and seems to deliberately explore how compatible they can be as friends - the babysitter comment to suss out whether he'd be a partner in womanizing, his willingness to break rules and flout authority, his sense of humour. BJ passes, so Hawkeye accepts him. It feels calculated because Hawkeye needs a replacement Trapper. ("We need to get him started on his ulcer," as potential evidence of Hawkeye wanting him to be Trapper 2.0)

BJ's attitude throughout season 4, in which he stamps out his own reactions and feelings to align himself with Hawkeye. The Bus has a thread of a battle of wills between Hawkeye and BJ over whether or not to include Frank, which Hawkeye wins. In Hey Doc he also wants Hawkeye to be nicer to Frank, but in the rest of the season he's right there with Hawkeye making fun of him. In The Gun BJ stands respectfully when Margaret comes to their table and Hawkeye glares at him disapprovingly, so then BJ turns it into a joke, seemingly correcting his own behaviour.

Wheelers and Dealers characterizes BJ as resentful in a way that makes him passive aggressive, which rings very true to his character to me. In Wheelers and Dealers he bemoans being so nice and passive and lashes out. "Who cares about what they want, I'm doing what I want for a change." This obviously says that he buries parts of himself to make nice with people habitually, as part of how he interacts with people, and I think you can see him doing it with Hawkeye early on.

You also have episodes like Heroes and Stars and Stripes where BJ alternately mocks Hawkeye for getting the spotlight and lords his own spotlight over Hawkeye, because he's insecure and presumably feels overshadowed by Hawkeye.

This is all to support my take that BJ moulds himself to suit Hawkeye because they're not intrinsically all that compatible as people, and he resents being the one to do that. So later BJ lashing out with mean pranks and psychological warfare (Bottoms Up, Dear Uncle Abdul, Joker Is Wild, what feels to me like negging in No Laughing Matter, etc) and ditching/mocking Hawkeye when he's upset about something (Back Pay, Depressing News, Give Em Hell Hawkeye, Blood and Guts, etc) is a response to that resentment when he feels more secure in Hawkeye putting up with it.

I think BJ would probably mould himself to fit anyone he wants to be friends with, but I don't think if given the option, he'd choose to be friends with Hawkeye. He disapproves of several things about Hawkeye even initially - his aforementioned lack of patience with Frank, his rampant sexuality (eg he does disapprove of Hawkeye sleeping with Carlye in The More I See You, and you also have several instances of BJ making fun of Hawkeye when it comes to his attitude towards sex, eg Taking the Fifth, Inga). And I don't think Hawkeye would choose to be friends with a monogamous married suburbanite if they weren't forced together right after Hawkeye lost his last war zone bff.

My evidence for Hawkeye only putting up with BJ's late season attitude because he's trapped is that he tries to put his foot down multiple times and fails because a) the 4077 is a very small world, and b) BJ needs his emotional support in a war zone. And every time he comes back they don't address what they fought over or discuss it or reconcile it, they simply drop it because they're reliant on their friendship.

In Ain't Love Grand he sleeps in the front office but comes back to share good news with BJ and emotionally support him. In The Most Unforgettable Characters they drop the fight because it upsets Radar without addressing why they were fighting. In Picture This Margaret manipulates Hawkeye into going back to BJ by lying about BJ needing his support. In The Joker is Wild and Bottoms Up Hawkeye mildly pranks BJ back in a tag and calls them even even though he's taking a loss.

It's also worth noting that Hawkeye hates BJ's friend Leo's extremely weaponized style of pranking. He's fine with shit like exploding cigars, not fine with him getting BJ court martialed. BJ is fine with it and thinks it's funny, which strikes me as another unaddressed incompatibility that feeds into the vibe of BJ's pretty intense psychological warfare later on, which Hawkeye is generally upset by rather than seeing it as all good fun.

And in GFA they both initially intend to leave without seeing each other again, BJ trying to leave a week early despite knowing his travel orders are sus and without saying goodbye or leaving a note, and Hawkeye expecting and ecstatic to be flown home when released from the hospital only to be ordered back to the 4077 for one more week. Also in GFA Hawkeye says goodbye for good, fully expecting to never see BJ again and sad about it but accepting.

Oh also the fact that Welcome to Korea is structured as a series of horrible things happening in a war zone that bond them together through shared trauma is another piece of strong evidence for the reading that being in a warzone together and needing each others' support is why they become friends, when otherwise they might not look twice at each other.

Ultimately you can take all this stuff and also interpret it as two guys who fall in genuine love/intense friendship and put up with each other because of that, but I think there's more than enough evidence that them being trapped together in hell is a major reason they become and stay friends, and imo it's a solid reading of their relationship, and also infinitely more interesting to me.

[foolishlyzephyrus]

The big difference between Clara and Ruby at least so far is that a lot of people don't seem to get it but Clara was a subversion of a mystery girl because the whole point was the Doctor was wrong to treat her that way and his grief for the Ponds made him see a mystery that wasn't there, they'd have gotten along better sooner if he had treated her like her own person and she was normal, just doing what she did because she was a normal companion defending her friend the Doctor she jumped into his time stream just as Clara Oswald the person who cares for the Doctor it wasn't some big mystery. She was this manic pixie dream girl in the Doctor's eyes (because he needed her to be, to distract from the pain of losing Amy and Rory) but that was never actually who she was. Ruby seems, at least for now, to have this big mystery gimmick but played completely straight. She has a mysterious backstory and snow powers and a song in her DNA. Clara was like a normal person who just happened to be split into different parts of the Doctor's timeline. For all people say Clara was this special mystery girl, she isn't that remarkable in Season 7 when you REALLY think about it.

hello anonymous ask. i appreciate your insight into clara. i will admit i was making a tongue and cheek comparison, drawing on the surface level similarities. i enjoy both characters so it wasn’t meant to be any sort of diss on them, just a passing observation.

while i agree that clara can absolutely be read as a subversion of the manic pixie dream girl trope, i feel like it gets muddled in the weird misogyny of eleven’s era. moffat is a solid writer but series five through seven really suffered with the characterization of certain female characters. characters i adore like amy pond and river song ended up overly sexualized and at times reduced to vessels for the doctor’s growth rather than their own. their stories both relied on something needing to be solved about them from our titular male character, with amy’s crack in her wall and river’s true identity. eleven ends up at the crux of their storylines, actively entrenched in their personal histories and driving their stories rather than being a facet of them. i believe that clara was somewhat affected similarly if not to the same extent. i think the subversion would have played a lot better had there not been the earnestness in the “inherently mysterious sexy characters” reinforced by previous seasons.

eleven was riding the coattails of ten’s “he’s so young and hot and how could women not be interested in him” deal so i won’t place the blame solely on moffat but i also think the fact that romance as a potential aspect of their relationship (one-sided or not) being so strongly implied may have also inhibited the understanding that clara wasn’t playing into the archetype. that particular era of the show was dominated by male writers, so i would not be surprised if that anything to do about the lack of clarity regarding clara’s character.

i think you are absolutely correct, there is nothing special about clara from an objective perspective. however through the narrative framework (i.e. oswin/victorian clara, leaf falling at the right time and place to bring her into existence from the rings of akhaten, etc.) it implies a certain sense of destiny, where one could draw up the mythologizing of her character. since we ultimately are viewing the show part ways through the doctor’s perspective (and subsequently through the lens of his grief as you pointed out), this is kind of where we get the weird overlap. it’s paradoxical in a way where a mystery does in fact exist, yet by the doctor acting on investigating it he is also bringing it to fruition in the first place. like you stated, clara acts reasonably according to her circumstances rather than intentionally generating intrigue.

as mentioned, when clara is treated as a normal person is when she truly thrives with the doctor. my favorite of her moments are when she’s at her most mundane. her run with twelve is super compelling for that exact reason, she is intriguing not because she is some cosmic mystery but because of her similarities to the doctor.

with ruby currently, we don’t know all that much about her. it’s unfortunate how close we are to the end of the season and there still seems to be a gap in the information we know about her whether intentionally or not. because of the lack of exploration of her character, she becomes inherently reduced to the mystery surrounding her. however, in this case, the doctor is less actively involved in solving that mystery, it’s more latent curiosity. as opposed to series 7, i don’t think it’s meant to be the main overarching plot of the season or it is at least is tied into the susan twist plot line rather than just standing alone. she appears on a lot more of an equal footing to the doctor too. ultimately, while the whole mystery surrounding her is more genuine, hers is still unresolved.

my comparison between ruby and clara wasn’t meant to be too serious, just noting on the shared tropes that surround them. because in the end, while they both appear to be seemingly normal people affected by some much deeper mystery, that’s where a lot of the similarities stop. clara’s happenstance as you said vs. ruby’s bordering on supernatural traits. eleven thinks clara is deliberately hiding something while fifteen understands ruby to be just as clueless as he is. more can be said. different stories are being told and equating them was perhaps a little reductive.

i hope this make some sort of sense and isn’t too incoherent. all this to say, i agree with you for the most part and i think regarding clara especially certain outside forces ended up in her characterization rather than just narrative purpose. i hope you don’t think i am attacking you for this or anything, i really enjoyed your thoughts.

[turbulentscrawl]

can i rq general hcs for antonio? thank you 💜

I’ve been a little more hesitant to tackle the Hunters, (aside from Ithaqua) just because I’ve been unsure how much to lean into them being the “villains” of the manor. And honestly I’m still a little wishy-washy about their characterizations…but anyway, I’m gonna give it a go with Antonio here (because I’ve got requests for him ;) ) and you guys please feel free to tell me if it feels off.

-Antonio is, first and foremost, depressed. And all his coping mechanisms are self-destructive. When life got hard, he turned to alcohol, and then later to gambling. And then, you know, to making a deal with the devil or something. The combination of those broke his wallet, his love, and then his spirit. His fuse is shorter now as a result, but instead of blowing up he moreso just…deflates.

-Despite being a Hunter, a “bad guy,” he’s probably better now than he was before. The biggest issue now is really the whole possession thing. He’s not exactly what you’d call “in control” of his body a good chunk of the time. Exactly when he’s going to lose control is generally unpredictable, aside from feeling like an invisible string of hair has coiled around his wrists shortly before. It happens a lot in matches, where he’s otherwise hesitant to be all that brutal, as well as when his mood gets low enough like above. But when he is in control, history has made Antionio milder than he was before his initial spiral.

-He still really likes his alcohol, but he’s better about taking it in moderation now. The other Hunters help to keep him in check about this as well, if not because they care about him then because he makes for an annoying, hot-headed drunk. He tends to pick fights when he’s really wasted and why would they want to deal with that?

-Gambling is also still problem for him, but since money doesn’t matter in the manors it’s both less concerning and less thrilling. He and some of the other Hunters place bets on matches, staking things like higher-end foods and favors to one another. He’s often requested to play specific pieces of music for people when he loses—particularly ones he dislikes.

-Because of the greedy imprisonment he suffered, Antonio dislikes spending long periods indoors, and especially in his room. He spends as much time outside as possible, enjoying the garden flowers and a cool breeze. On full moons, when there’s nothing planned, he usually goes wandering about to try and find any survivors doing the same. He enjoys the fresh company, for the most part, and even considers some of them friends.

-Antonio is among the most displeased of the Hunters, regarding the set-up for matches. Despite his history as a violent drunk, he takes no pleasure in hurting people, and he’s bitter about possibly having to be “evil” for the rest of eternity. The fact that some of the survivors don’t hold the matches against him is a balm to his aching soul.

-While the violin is his instrument and weapon of choice, Antonio enjoys all of the arts. Any kind of music, visual, or performance. He understands the importance of self-expression, and loves to see people give themselves to it in earnest. What he dislikes are frauds. People who use art just to make a buck.

-The best love languages for Antonio are Quality Time and Acts of Service. He finds it incredibly sweet when others anticipate some of his needs and complete tasks for him in case his arms are taken and he’s unable to do them himself later. He also just enjoys spending time around his loved ones, it reminds him that he’s not some irredeemable monster. He prefers to show his love through Words of Affirmation and Physical Touch, often giving people sweet pet names and touching their arms.

-His hair is stronger than the game suggests. He can easily carry large items, other people, and even lift himself with it. He can hoist himself up to a second-story floor with relative ease, though being lifted by your scalp isn't exactly the most comfortable sensation, so he tries to avoid it.

[theoncomingchaos]

How MYATB fits the Gothic genre

WARNING: BOOK SPOILERS

Alright, first off, I know the author was not intending to write a Gothic romance, but it seriously fits the genre so well and I need to talk about it.

Here are the main elements of Gothic horror

Supernatural elements

Omens, nightmares, or curses

Unnerving Atmosphere

Gothic Hero

Gothic Villain

Romance

Emotional Distress

Mystery

Power Imbalance

Here is how MYATB fits the criteria.

Supernatural elements primarily come from the cultivation, the magic poison and flowers etc.

We see Huai'en having nightmares about the cliff pretty frequently, and the poison acts like a curse where the cold weather brings him pain. Particularly, the curses in Gothic horror often connect to the past. This can be ancient or recent, and this curse connects to Xiaobao's personal past.

In this story the weather is the main source of unnerving atmosphere. Winter brings physical, torturous pain, and if it rains at all during the several days it takes to perform the cure, then Xiaobao will basically be doomed.

A Gothic hero usually has some big flaw and struggles against some kind of temptation. For Xiaobao, his flaw is that he was spoiled, weak, and naive. He has never known pain, any time he had a slight inconvenience he could cry out and someone would immediately help him. So, learning to see the world as it is, take responsibility for himself, and fight through pain to do what he knows is right is a huge part of his journey. The temptation he struggles with is desire (lust/love). We see this in him proposing to multiple girls in one night and his frequent patronage to brothels, we see this in the way he throws himself onto Huai'en, and we see this in the way he struggles between his continued desire for Huai'en vs. all the hurt, guilt, and red flags.

A Gothic villain usually encapsulates the temptation that the hero has. They are often powerful, beautiful, and seemingly able to work outside of ordinary societal restrictions without fear or restriction. In a Gothic romance- this can be the/a love interest such as in Phantom of the Opera, True Blood, Interview with the Vampire or Jane Eyre. In love, they are often obsessive and controlling, they are liars (from omission or directly), and often have a dangerous side and/or secret. Huai'en is a powerful cultivator, he keeps his identity a secret for good reason, and he is canonically extremely beautiful. Especially in the book, he is a clear symbol of Xiaobao's weakness: he is both beautiful and lustful which early series naive Xiaobao would have thought was all that mattered in being the perfect partner. Although we know most of his worst traits come from his abusive upbringing and his youth, Huai'en absolutely fits the elements. He is obsessed with Xiaobao and extremely possessive. Xiaobao is the only thing he has ever wanted in his life and he is absolutely willing to take Xiaobao away against his will to keep him. His plotting where he attempted to protect the Jin family often included lies of omission because he was trying to control the situation himself. In both the book and series, he shows his violent side both on the battlefield and in bed. The difference here is that unlike many others in this genre, Huai'en is allowed to change and grow for the better and the narrative rewards this change. Eventually, he becomes more selfless in his love.

The romance is obvious. What is beautiful here is that the way they grow is not only perfect for their individual characterization, but it also makes them more suitable for each other. Xiaobao becomes someone who can be an equal partner for Huai'en, and Huai'en becomes someone who can genuinely love Xiaobao.

Both Huai'en and Xiaobao experience extreme emotional distress throughout the story. Xiaobao has to deal with losing his home and the guilt he has over hurting his family and endangering his friends. He has emotional distress over loving Huai'en and wanting to hate him for everything he has done. Huai'en has emotional distress from first discovering desire and his obsessive need for more love and closeness, the abuse and continued pressures of his adopted father, and then trying to get back with Xiaobao while being constantly rejected and pushed away.

The mystery comes primarily from the courtly intrigue. What did the Jin family do? What happened to Huai'en's mother? Who is his father?

The power imbalance between Xiaobao and Huai'en is obvious. Huai'en can and often DOES do whatever he wants to Xiaobao even against his will and Xiaobao can't do anything about it. Xiaobao originally thought he had the power via his money (and when he thought Huai'en was a woman) and coming to terms with not being the one in power in a relationship for the first time in his life is a big blow for him in the book. Xiaobao does gain power in the relationship, but physical power and even social status both leave Huai'en far above. Huai'en may leave behind his family name, but he is still the emperor's son, and the emperor still favors him as such. In the book, even Yuzhan still protects him within limits.

Anyway, looking through the lens of a different genre can bring some new perspective to a story and because I am a fan of Gothic literature, it just makes me love this story even more to see the connections. The book has some stuff that makes it VERY hard to read sometimes, and there are some moments that make you realize the author probably needs a bit more time to cook, but there is a lot of really nicely done narrative beauty in the bones of the story. I'm so happy to see how the series has taken these bones and elevated it. I really hope they stick the landing.

[clustermuck]

here why I’m upset with Colin’s characterization in part 2: when this show is all about Romance and our romantic lead spends the last 1/4 of the season being sullen, not listening to his wife’s side of things, and even actively shutting her down on more than one occasion after finding out this secret, I worry that with the little scenes of them dancing or holding hands or talking about their relationship is the writers telling us this behavior from Colin is supposed to be…sexy? Endearing? Romantic?

It’s not really…

Does Colin have every right to be upset that the woman he just discovered he’s basically loved his whole life without even him knowing it kept this huge secret that hurt a lot of other people he loves and puts that same woman he loves in constant danger herself? Sure. Absolutely!

But Colin, babe, YOU chased her down. You stopped her betrothal to someone else. You declared yourself first. I know you were declaring yourself to Pen and not LW, but don’t then turn around and act like Pen was conniving to get you to marry her. Like what?!?

And then after his convo with Kanthony, he CHOOSES to still marry her because he’s obviously still in love with Pen even if he hasn’t worked out the LW feelings yet. If he had his mind made up to marry her anyway, then his coldness towards Pen needed to end then and there. He can still be frustrated or unsure of how they’ll move forward, but at that point, after “I do,” Colin needed to realize that this just became Penelope and Colin VS. the Problem—esp after the Queen’s interrogation. He needed to step up, NOT continue to freeze out or fire shots at his wife.

There can be conflict without fighting or frustration or cold-shouldering and I get so annoyed when writers forget that. The last two episodes could have been so interesting and still frought with angst only having Pen and Colin on the same side.

Instead we get a beautiful, but I think kinda tacked on love declaration after Pen’s reveal as LW (as such, as beautiful and appropriate as the words were, it felt hollow) and then give us less than 3 mins of Happily Married Colin and Pen?!?!

That’s not romantic, guys.

I could be reading WAY too much into this…probably am…but to me, reading this half of the season another way is Colin bordering on emotionally abusive to Pen (yes, I know Pen has things to atone for, I know she’s not 100% in the right.)

So yeah…I’m really upset.

(Though I should note, I’m blaming writing and editing the most here, Nic and Luke acting this season with all their hearts and I know they would have made a better approach to their character arcs SO BEAUTIFUL if they had been given the chance…alas…)

**EDIT: I love these characters so much that I am ACTIVELY looking for someone to make an argument for the other side. I want to be told I missed something and Colin was softer, more loving than I’m seeing right now. Please…