#interpret the characters’ thinking in different ways

[maowives]

this isn't a coherent thought yet but I'm like fairly certain that the proliferation of the framework of fictionkin is rooted in the fact that for many people (in particular, children who have not been given the language to identify and articulate the underlying phenomena animating their experiences), these identifications with characters provide a mythological scaffolding upon which they can start to build a way to make sense of the difficult interpersonal and intrapersonal experiences they've undergone. this may seem trivial to some, especially to those who participate, as it's clear that part of the draw of "Fandom Culture" broadly is that it affords an (ostensibly) unified theory of analysis and engagement for intimate interpersonal and intrapersonal experience, by way of storytelling and the curation of particular fictional experiences which resonate with the reader. it feels evident to me that this is more often than not, designed both as a method of communication, seeking to provide (relatively) broadly legible shorthands and handholds for articulating painful or otherwise important personal experiences which would otherwise be complicated or simply emotionally difficult to express, as well as a form of identity-crafting, in which these characters form the building blocks of an internal symbolic language that, when rearranged and ordered in a particular manner, enable the user to understand their experiences and their internal responses to those experiences. frankly I think it's quite an elegant solution, and one which I understand the utility of. in particular, I think it's relevant and understandable that these kinds of frameworks arise in the particular political contexts in which they do. further, it seems clear to me that many of the more reactive and reactionary elements of these kinds of contexts frequently arise from a deeply felt defensiveness about the sanctity of these internal frameworks and spaces, not because of the sanctity of the thing itself, but rather the ways that these symbols act as placeholders for particular individual experiences of particular and deeply felt narrative relevance and importance. said in another way, the sanctity of the particular reading of a character or a story are not valuable in and of themselves but rather for how they act as stand-ins for The Self. an example might be in the ways that "Fandom Discourse" tends to produce heated conflicts between different people who interpret different characters as having different kinds of essential moral qualities, as these characters do not function as characters in a text but rather as placeholders for either the reader or other people relevant to the reader's life, whether they be loved ones or agents of harm, or both. it becomes easy to understand why contending understandings of a particular character's "moral quality" become very high stakes very quickly, as the coherence of the individual's particular meaning-making system, and therefore, the integrity of a particular narrative about one's own life, depends on a particular reading of that character.

and, while, as I mentioned above, I do think it makes sense for this framework to function the way it does, and while I do think it is, broadly, an elegant solution to a difficult problem, I think it is hobbled by a few factors.

Using other people's fictional characters as a mythmaking device requires necessarily having inconsistencies and misalignments as well as implementing an active practice of Character Curation.

Conversely, using one's "OC's" as a shorthand for personal experience and expression requires other readers to be heavily invested in, and acquainted in, this particular idiosyncratic mythology.

These frameworks, while undoubtedly valuable for their legibility to others within the shared fandom space, are both imperfect, in that they never are able to communicate exactly what an individual sets out to communicate, as well as incomplete, in that their explanatory power borders on nil.

Because of the previously discussed contending interpretations of given individually relevant characters, these frameworks tend to promote intense and heated conflict between contending camps who, all in all, are most likely fighting over some relatively inconsequential quibbles of personal idealist moralism at worst, or just simple miscommunication and misunderstanding at best.

Because of this fact, ingroup compliance is heavily, heavily policed, and the space becomes more and more encouraged to adopt increasingly draconian and reactionary methods of control.

these observations are not intended to be a moral condemnation of these practices, as savvy MaoWives readers will know that OP does not traffick in idealist moralisms or other such quibbles. however, I do think that identifying the particular gap of where a unifying theory with explanatory power may come in handy for encouraging people to make sense of their own lives in terms that they have more control over, and which have more robust analytical tools. again, savvy MaoWives readers will be able to see the predictable turn to articulating the value of using a dialectical materialist and Marxist-Leninist analytical frame for these kinds of things, but further, perhaps more particularly, I could see a place where family abolition as a framing device may be significantly more helpful in encouraging interpersonal abuse survivors to make sense of their experiences, rather than the readily accessible, but inevitably incomplete, frameworks of using particular characters as social signifiers of experience, and mythmaking devices for intrapersonal awareness.

[I apologize for the length of this post. I did not have the time to write a shorter one.]

[journeytothewestresearch]

As someone who’s Chinese w/ a degree in social science + (art) history regarding East Asia I’m always super intrigued and interested to how others interpret changes in new titles on older religious texts- but I will ask in particular if you have any personal ties to Buddhism/Taoism/Confucianism (and Chinese culture) when you find yourself interpreting BM:W’s change in allegorical use of Buddhism as contemporary political adherence! BM:W’s religious and soul mechanics follows their previous game without much overt linking between the two.

Overthrowing Gods in East Asian media is a very common trope in videos specifically due to player involvement (contrast to books where you are separate as the audience) and often is used as an allegory for the system/recent events we exist in. In such it does shift a lot from the original text in base but I think it’s not supposed to relay the same allegory due to the time period in which the writers exist! Wukong’s story changing to him still being chained by the principles that envelop life is far more relatable to late-stage capitalist environments viewers and artists exist in- as such he fulfils the contemporary variant of his original role in JTTW!

I think the change in purpose the Buddhist mythos serves in this game is decisive by nature due to inherent bias present in the original text as a religious piece, and such is core to the allegory. However I don’t think BM:W is supposed to relay that allegory, I think it is supposed to branch off on its own as an alternate contemporary extension of the foundation JTTW set out (plus with the 2 DLC’s on the way, there is plenty of time to extend the universe in game to validate a shift in religious purpose compared to the cut 7 chapters planned during development). And such i think attributing it to the CCP can be a bit of a touchy statement (especially if one doesn’t have long standing ties to East Asian culture or Regional religious practice!) and can accidentally play into sinophobic phrasing and attitudes.

Buddhism as a practice and way of life has a very different presence in writers centuries ago compared to now, as well as how we use religion in audience-involved stories. And such I find it an interesting shift regarding a game made with an international and widely multi-religious audience (that isn’t consuming it as a psycho-socio poem compared to a much smaller and more culturally homogenous readerbase. I think the friction caused by thematic changes is more due to how the game relays the physical journey so closely with reusing characters and having to shift them according to the foundational changes- if it was closer to other written “sequels” that created characters connected to the original cast through descending from them etc, the changes wouldn’t grate on completed arcs or how we compare the experience to wukong’s parallel one

No, I do not have any direct personal cultural connection to Buddhism, Daoism, or Confucianism. I live in Asia, though, and beyond my research of JTTW, I do study religion here (with more of an emphasis on folk religion as it pertains to the Great Sage). My negative view of Black Myth: Wukong is colored by my deep love for the original story. In general, I don't like adaptations.

Thank you for your explanation of the game.

[crxzytogether]

Lol I wanna address this even tho nobody asked because I’m mad. Like ship whoever you want as yk this person said but leave it out of our tag-💀 my problems more with the fact that they tagged byler for this post than what they said but yk since they tagged us might as well respond.

Firstly, “ideas planted by your community”? Huh? Girl what- you mean our evidence? You mean our analysis and perceptions and ability to interpret what we’re watching beyond surface level? And honestly after season 4 even surface level melodramas not looking too good- Secondly, what harsh truths were brought up? The lies? Your perception of montauk? which idk sounds a lot like mike and wills relationship to me but to each their own… “they’ve been together since pretty much day one”, “they have a deep connection”, “four seasons of character development”?? Do I even need to explain? Who’s been together since day one? Right mike and will, in the beginning of episode 1 before any of the upside down shit even happens we’re shown that their relationship is different from their relationship with the other party members. A fact that’s proven time and time again throughout season 1 where we see how much more Mike is affected by Will’s disappearance(not tryna negate everybody else’s feelings or reactions but it’s clear that we’re supposed to notice Mike cares slightly more or in a different way). As for the deep connections? Season 2 shed scene ring a bell, the first one of Mike’s monologue that’s an attempt to help someone he cares about that actually works and is completely honest, deep connection boom. And that connections emphasized again in s4 with Will being able to encourage Mike and make him feel better and we already know why it’s special on Will’s side and their whole plot-line that season. Next, “four seasons of character development” im sorry what?, season 1 and season 3 maybe are the only seasons I’d consider they had that meanwhile season 4 I’d say they had character regression because tell me how Mike goes from being able to comfort El about her feeling like she’s a monster but then does a 180 not only unable to comfort her but also make her feel worse-(I’m talking about she didn’t look fine in case you didn’t catch that). Back to s1/s3, s1 where they were friends for the most part is the healthiest their relationship has ever been the entire show- like😭😭it literally just goes downhill from there. Season 2/season 3 their codependency I’m- and season 4 El feeling like she has to lie to Mike about her life and Mike unable to comfort her and also hiding his own interests from her. Like sure the bullying thing I get why she’d hide that maybe not really but El lies about so many things😭😭 she feels like she has to lie to keep up the relationship. THAT 👏 IS 👏 NOT 👏 HEALTHY 👏. Like maybe after they’ve both grown separately I’d consider it but as of now? No sir. Also let me remind you how El confronted Angela and asked her to help El keep up the pretence- SHE STILL DIDN’T FEEL SAFE OR COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TELL MIKE THE TRUTH. That’s not healthy for either of them. My byler agenda aside I still don’t think Mike and El should be together. Lastly, “the fact that Mileven IS endgame”, again I’m sorry what? Have you watched season 5? Have you read the scripts or been on set or talked to anybody working on st5 or work on st5 yourself? No? So then how is that a fact- it’s a prediction, an assumption but it’s not a fact. If after season 5 comes out and it did end up becoming true then you could use that phrase but as of now when you have no idea how season 5 is gonna go you can’t call that a fact. Also rip how are you so confident when Mike and Will are literally attached at the hip so far from what we have seen besides the rooftop convo and if that is enough to convince you then yikes- bc we’ve got like 10 of those to convince us so good luck watching season 5 and have a good day ig

[bathtubbbbbbbbb]

I’ve attempted to explain this thing in my head a few times but I always end up up going on a tangenty ramble putting more emphasis on one thing than the other so bear with me which I show you some pictures & hopefully they’re better at articulating what I wanna articulate. (Btw I just quickly got these off of Pinterest so the image quality is inconsistent)

Anyway, so…

(Can’t be seen here but Grayson has a beauty mark under her right eye)

..hopefully you guys are picking up what I’m putting down. Further more…

..surely other people have sorta thought about this.

And the Vi & Vander parallels are abundant, as well as the Silco & Jinx parallels, but to me & many other fans that “you were my brother” line from Vander to Silco was interpreted more as a “brothers in arms” sorta thing not literal brothers — & the.. undertones in Silco & Vander’s dynamic is further cemented by them paralleling Jayce & Viktor — & that thing that Silco said in response “you still don’t understand” sure reads to me as “well ya to YOU we might have been brothers but i felt differently..”.

Anyway the point of this is that Caitlyn’s parallels to other characters are not talked about enough, I think because she parallels a lot of unlikable characters or characters that are considered “evil”, like there’s some pretty heavy handed paralleling with Jinx too. I just want people to talk about it more, to me it makes Caitlyn so much more of an interesting character that she’s sorta grouped in with the “villains” of Arcane character design wise & motivation wise, all those characters, Marcus, Silco, Jinx, wanted the same things as her, justice, results, to prove themselves, & went about achieving them in very similar ways to Caitlyn.

[signanothername]

In your opinion do you think nightmare would let a human work for him or do you think he prefers only monsters to work under him?

(It's for a character I'm making a mini comic for :) )

But I'd also imagine even then there would be issues regarding the murder time trio, especially considering their hang ups when it comes to them (Chara and frisk ect.)

Ooooohhh

Ok tbh I feel like Nightmare wouldn’t genuinely care whether someone who works for him is human, monster or something completely different

As long as they’re efficient and do their job properly then he’ll be ok with them

I think the true question is whether Nightmare would be willing to recruit anyone at all beyond MTT, considering that Nightmare hates change in his routine

I for one at least, like to believe he didn’t just recruit MTT just because, without any true reason in mind, he made very calculated decisions after careful planning and after weighing his options

So i feel like the true challenge is how to get Nightmare to be willing to have another subordinate under him much more so than what they are

And I feel like, if Nightmare got a human under him, they’d be someone who isn’t Frisk/Chara as to not trigger MTT and chaos ensues

I like to believe MTT might be a tiny bit tense with the prospect of working with a human, but I feel like they wouldn’t get aggressive if they aren’t Chara/Frisk (except for Murder maybe) and even then I think it really depends, as I believe Murder’s first choice is to keep distance from them rather then actually engage with them

Hell, I think MTT in general are like cats, if you include a new recruit (regardless of whether human or not) Nightmare has to introduce them carefully to each other the way you introduce a new cat to another as to not agitate the older cat hxhxhdhhd

Which again, just puts more challenges in the prospect of Nightmare even being willing to include a new subordinate under him at all

So I feel like the exploration of reasons why Nightmare would include a new subordinate is much more important than what kinda subordinate they are

And while i’m a firm believer in the idea that making a deal with Nightmare is like making a deal with the devil himself (basically you’re stuck with that deal for the rest of your life) I never was one to believe that Nightmare would recruite anyone who he makes a deal with under him, but rather, have a use for them in other ways that are still pretty much very stuck with Nightmare cause of it *side eyes my interpretation of Ccino and Nightmare’s relationship*

I can imagine Nightmare also bargaining and settling for temporary work time, basically having someone work for him until he deems the work they needed them for done with in a way that satisfies him

So yes, Nightmare would let humans work for him if it’s actually beneficial to him

[musicalmoritz]

Why does tsukasa seem to not care much about himself?

I had a hard time figuring out what you meant by this because to be honest, I don’t focus on the Yugi twins as much as some of the other characters. I still try to read analyses on them and understand them, and I have been talking a lot abt Tsukasa lately, but I haven’t rly grasped their characterization as quickly as I did with some of the others

However, after giving it some thought I believe you’re referring to scenes like these

If this is what you mean, then the explanation is that Tsukasa simply doesn’t want to exist. He is a yorishiro and existence for them is essentially hell, just look at what Sumire went through being stuck in a time loop for 100 years. It is not a reach to assume Tsukasa went through something similar, seeing as he alludes to being trapped in a place before escaping near the start of the series when we first meet him. He reached out to Hanako for years, but Hanako never answered any of his calls. So Tsukasa wanting to be destroyed isn’t really out of any self-sacrificial nature, it would be a peaceful ending for him. He’d be able to move onto the afterlife, or otherwise accomplish any conniving goals he might have with the entity (idk as I said, not a Yugi twins expert)

He views Hanako as selfish for wanting to hold onto the people he loves at the expense of their wellbeing. Part of Nene’e fate is to die young, it’s sad but that is the natural path her life is meant to follow. She herself even tries to come to terms with this and make peace with it, but Hanako won’t let her. He loves her, so he wants her to live a long and happy life. This is completely understandable, but it is also selfish. It is part of human nature to be selfish, and part of Hanako will always be tied to the human boy he once was. Selfishness isn’t always bad, sometimes it’s necessary. But from’s Tsukasa’s perspective, Hanako is robbing Nene of an escape

Tsukasa makes this a personal issue because Hanako treats him the same way. It would be objectively better and more natural for him to let Tsukasa go, especially if the theories abt him killing Tsukasa to free him from the entity are true. That is what Tsukasa wants, to be free, to no longer be a yorishiro. But Hanako is selfish, and he loves Tsukasa too much to grant him freedom

Now, if you’re talking about Tsukasa’s lack of self-care in regards to Hanako “hating” him, that’s a bit different

Tsukasa seems to conceptualize relationships in a very black and white way. You either love someone, or you hate them. He’s interested mainly in how other people feel and react to things, so he’s constantly asking them how they feel about others. I don’t think he differentiates much between platonic love and romantic, it is simply “love vs. hate” to him. The two are opposites and cannot intersect

The most genuine statement I could possibly make about Tsukasa is that he loves his brother. Both versions of him, no matter how you interpret his current existence. The possessed Tsukasa we know now is the one who grew up with Amane, he spent ten years of his life with him whilst Baby Tsukasa only knew Amane for three. Ofc that was still his brother so time isn’t rly relevant to how much love/attachment Amane still holds for the original version of Tsukasa, but that doesn’t change the fact that the brother he knew for most of his life was the possessed Tsukasa. They shared holidays and birthdays together, lived together, walked to school together every single day. Through and through, they are brothers and it would be impossible for Hanako not to see him that way, even if he claims not to. It must be a complicated situation for him, on one hand he grew up with this Tsukasa but on the other he blames this Tsukasa for the old one’s disappearance

Back to how Tsukasa feels, he loves Amane fully. He does describe them as rivals, so I would say the feelings are complex on his end as well, but overall he loves his brother. He loves his brother so much that he doesn’t care if Amane hates him. And he must, he threw him across the room once when they were kids when Tsukasa was bothering him. He knew something was off when Tsukasa returned, and his attitude towards him likely reflected that throughout the 10 years they spent together. He killed him, he freezes up when he sees him, he consistently sides against him. For a character that views love in black and white terms, that sure looks a lot like hate. He recognizes that Amane is sad without him, but he also understands that Amane hates him. At least, from Tsukasa’s perspective, that’s what it looks like

But Tsukasa’s love for Amane is unconditional, he doesn’t really care if Amane hates or loves him. Baby Tsukasa says he wants Amane to be an astronaut with their parents, somewhere far away from him so Tsukasa can never make him upset. He believes Amane hates him, but he doesn’t care as long as Amane is happy. That’s all he wants, for Amane to be happy. His brother is the most important person to him, as long as Amane is happy he doesn’t care what happens to himself. Until it reaches a breaking point ofc, and Tsukasa realizes that the best situation for everyone would be for him to disappear

I’m pulling a lot of this out of my ass so I apologize if I got any information incorrect! Also just to be clear I don’t mind being asked about the Yugi twins at all, people were asking me a lot about Tsukasa yesterday so I get why the questions keep coming. Just beware that I am a self-proclaimed Not Expert lol. I do plan to look more into them whenever I start that series of character analyses tho so stay tuned for that

[fellhellion]

Hm. Something I’ve been thinking about (since I never shut up about Miguel apparently) is the idea that maybe there’s not supposed to be, to his understanding of what happened, a singular canon event that he breaks when dipping dimensions, it’s more the idea that he “breaks” canon by no longer being present to carry out his own canon events, by wanting something outside of what was apparently predestined to him, and the universe punished him for it.

I broke [canon] once myself, he says, but he doesn’t name the event even as the examples he pulls up are labelled.

Perhaps the “event”, as the characters perceive it, could just be something as simple as by virtue of replacing alt!Miguel he negated the intended effect of the man’s death upon the world around him.

But I just wonder. Because the way Miguel speaks of this to Miles portrays his own wanting for something different as being what he thinks invoked that destruction.

“We all want to live the life we wish we had, believe me I’ve tried. And the harder I tried, the more damage I did. You can’t have it all, kid.”

I wanted something more, but Spider-Man’s fate is set. Any and all events, regardless of their nature. And defying that fate, trying to live a life beyond what it asked of me killed people.

If you alter your course from canon in any way, you hurt people.

[thatswhatsushesaid]

psa that the day there are no jgy stans left on tumblr dot com is the day i am dead

but rest assured i'll go to my grave exactly as i lived: obnoxiously proclaiming to everyone within earshot how great lianfang-zun is. narratively, metaphorically, spiritually. sexually, too, like why limit myself. i like to keep my options open

[moondal514]

Those Andreil au fics from Neil’s pov that are like Neil pining for Andrew in the most repressed way possible (because for whatever reason it never occurs to him that Andrew could ever be into him) while Andrew has it down bad for Neil so obviously that literally everyone except Neil knows it (without Andrew having even said anything to anyone about it of course) fill my soul so much for real

[iwritenarrativesandstuff]

hey. uh, sorry, but can we drop the notion that Dazai arranged for the Flags to die in Stormbringer? Look, I'm too lazy right now to go back and pull up the direct scenes, but that was never stated, it is heavily implied Dazai gave Verlaine the information after they had already died, and if you look at this post by @/popopretty, you'll see that Chuuya only punishes Dazai for doctoring the intel so that he got tortured and Murase died. There is no mention of the Flags.

[blue-rose-soul]

"Great Alastor Altruist* died for his friends!"

This scene has been spinning in my brain since Thursday. Like a lot of other people, my first thought was that this was an indication that Alastor had grown to care for Charlie and her friends at the hotel. And it's not because of the words he says. Even if you're watching without subtitles and don't see the quotations around that phrase, it's pretty obvious that he's laughing at the very thought.

"Me? Alastor? Dying for them?"

"Ridiculous."

"Absurd!"

"Utterly laughable!"

No, what makes me think that there might be a kernel of truth there isn't the words by themselves. It's the look on his face as he says them.

This is the part where Alastor's angry snarl breaks and he begins to look genuinely afraid. He clutches his chest. He digs his fingers into his scalp, drags his hand down the side of his face. And that's a perfectly reasonable reaction to nearly dying! It's very human! But I think it's very telling that this expression doesn't settle on his face until he's talking about dying for someone else. Before this he looked more angry than anything, and he lapses back into anger up until he begins talking about trying to find a way out of his deal.

Now, don't get me wrong, I understand why anyone would think otherwise. The thing about Alastor is that, despite how blatant it is, his mask works. Like I stated earlier, I find myself searching every word, expression, and gesture from Alastor for double meaning. Ostensibly, there's no one here for Alastor to lie to**. No one he has to put up an act for. But his smile, which he's already fully admitted is faker than fake, remains firmly in place. I wonder if putting up an act is so second nature to him at this point he can't help but do it even when he's alone. Maybe he tries to fool himself as much as other people.

I believe that he has come to care, but I can't fully believe it. I won't be surprised to be wrong. But there are some scenes that just don't make sense to me if he really doesn't care at all.

His chat with Niffty the night before the extermination, for example. Niffty isn't really someone he needs to trick. He has power over her, whether it's because he owns her soul or because of her blind devotion to him. It's telling that while everyone else is hanging out together, sharing drinks at the bar, Alastor keeps his distance and positions himself above them. At this point, Alastor seems to care about them the way we, the audience, care about them; as entertainment. He's enjoying watching their story unfold up close, but that's all there is to it. He admits to Niffty that one could get accustomed to being with them. Not him though! He's above all that.

Then the battle happens. At first, Alastor's role in the battle didn't require him to assume too much risk. He was on crowd control, limiting the number of exorcists the rest of the hazbins have to deal with at once. And he slayed a not insubstantial number of angels in the process***. But then Adam broke through Alastor's shield and singled him out. It would have been reasonable for Alastor to put some distance between himself and the Lead Exorcist. Charlie did say it was his job to deal with Adam, but as I've already discussed, Alastor really had no hope of winning that fight alone. Maybe if he'd escaped right then and there, or fought Adam alongside Charlie things would have turned out differently. Granted, I don't think his pride would have allowed him to take either of those options.

Regardless, the end result is that Alastor did come very close to dying for a cause that wasn't his. Considering what Adam did to the hotel, Alastor's pretty damn lucky he's not in two pieces here.

Now, I don't think this means Alastor is immediately going to turn around and integrate int o the hazbin family. Immediately after this line where he mocks the idea of dying for Charlie's cause, he gets angry again, leans further into the Radio Demon persona and starts contemplating ways to escape his contract. I think, that like someone recoiling after accidentally touching a hot stove, Alastor's going to pull further away from them. One thing I am certain about is how Alastor feels about his leash; he hates it. He wants to be rid of it. He doesn't know how to do that yet, but he's working out a plan and having Charlie in his corner is part of that plan. Giving a genuine shit about her or the other hazbins is not part of that plan. It's another leash, not as literal as the one connecting him to his patron but just as binding.

Alastor realizing he might actually care about these people may just make him more dangerous to them than if he just didn't care at all.

-

(*The word 'altruist' here being used as a title, not a name. Like something you'd see in a newspaper headline, or on a headstone.)

(**There do seem to be some odd eye motifs in the environment, but at no point does Alastor give any indication he is aware of them or acknowledge their presence in anyway. And I highly doubt he would have said certain things if he believed his patron was actively watching him.)

(***Taking this opportunity to go off topic a bit to call the Vees out on their hypocrisy. For all their bluster about 'taking the fight to Heaven' and how 'pussy' the older Overlords supposedly are, I didn't see any of them on the battlefield. Alastor was. He fought as long and hard as he could. There was nothing cowardly about him living to fight another day.)

[jackdaniel69nice]

the fact that tokoyami could be considered one of the more important members of 1-A and we still got JACK SHIT about his backstory is so wild to me

like you have this whole idea of him cherishing the relationships he has so deeply to the point of an emotional breakdown whenever someone he cares about gets hurt and you DONT TELL US WHY???

like this boy is so incredibly hard on himself despite improving faster than the majority of his peers and WE DONT KNOW WHY???

my delusional ass was WAITING. for THREE YEARS. and we got nothing. the disappointment i felt was just immeasurable.

My god you are so right. It IS really disappointing. I honestly had no expectations for tokoyami backstory because I had always thought of him as a background character when I got into mha in 2017-2019. The story was still new then but when I returned last year there was so much more tokoyami had become. He plays an absolutely vital role but is treated as a supporting character. We knew him long before hawks but he was obviously pushed aside in favor of the winged hero. There is so much subtle writing about tokoyami especially him potentially having hurt or even killed people in the past. Dark Shadow is such an interesting quirk and character but they are never truly addressed for their insane power.

I would like to think tokoyami would have gotten his own character arc eventually if the ending hadn’t been so rushed for whatever reason. It would have probably been a very large undertaking and I can see how it wouldn’t have been able to fit into the tight schedule. He’s not even mentioned in the epilogue, only seen, despite clearly being one of the strongest characters and would at least be top 10.

I’m so sorry anon that your dreams were crushed. I hope my silly headcanons and stories bring you some closure, I do try to stay as close to canon as possible. Although I am aware my personal experiences and feelings certainly influence my ideas without me realizing. Perhaps you could drop in my dms at some point so we can share thoughts :)

[puppyeared]

i feel like im not making any sense but does anyone else feel like there are stories that let u run with them and ones that spell everything out for you

[stardust-falling]

Having more thoughts about Shen Jiu because of course I am.

I don’t think he has the capacity for empathy or genuine selflessness.

He spent the entirety of his formative years deep in survival mode, and because of that, he evaluates people solely based off of how they might threaten or ensure his safety and/or comfort. As far as individual people themselves with their own perspectives… honestly I don’t think he even thinks of that.

Maybe a controversial opinion, but I don’t think even YQY is exempt.

Shen Jiu doesn’t have a moral code. When every day is spent on surviving, a moral code is a luxury.

And really, he just never got out of that mode. See, the thing is, once you’ve had enough adverse experiences it only takes a little bit to trigger you back into that mindset. Shen Jiu was used to being scolded and then beaten or abused, so for him, even a simple chiding is a precursor to abuse— even if he DOES recognize that nothing more will happen, his body and mental patterns will still go into that preparation time.

So of course he never left survival mode, because even if nothing is actively happening, your mind will keep reinforcing those patterns.

For someone with a normal upbringing, as far as I can tell, empathy is something you learn and develop from those around you. Many seem to think it’s something innate and natural and if you don’t have it then there’s something wrong with you from birth. I think Shen Jiu falls into exactly this category of thought— and so he doesn’t even consider that he could try to learn and develop it as a skill he can perform, even if it doesn’t come naturally.

Of course, would he even try? He hasn’t been given any incentive. Any time he has tried to do something good, he ends up getting hurt (saving Yue Qi leading to being taken by QJL) or misinterpreted and admonished (the well ghost incident, keep in mind my earlier point about scoldings perpetuating the same patterns).

So he stays in that same vicious cycle, perpetually in survival mode and unable to escape, even in a relatively secure position (see: his paranoia).

Now, this is all relevant to the discussions of SJ’s feminism, misogyny, and/or lack thereof. I feel like a lot of discussions aren’t really getting the full picture.

SJ sees people, no matter who they are, as solely how they can affect him. Just because this isn’t exclusive to women, or because if comes from a reasonable place, does that really mean it doesn’t play into misogyny?

Let’s take another angle.

I think his abuse of LBH and other talented disciples also is rooted, deep down, in this same issue. He’s not just hurting LBH only to hurt him, his aim is specifically to stunt his cultivation. There’s jealousy at play there of course, but there’s a bit more layers to it too— SJ doesn’t think he’s capable of goodness. So reasonably, he’ll be a bad teacher. He already knows what happens when someone becomes more powerful than their oppressor. LBH may be a child now, but a part of SJ whether he acknowledges it or not sees him as a future threat that needs to be treated as such.

It’s rooted in fear— because everything is with SJ.

So does that mean it’s not actually abuse?

No. The behaviors he shows are still abusive, the reasoning just gives a lens for understanding.

Now, with his views on women— I mentioned in the tags of my original post that I don’t think he views women as people. This is based in that earlier idea of how he interprets others based off their risk and benefit to him. For women specifically, though, there’s another layer.

Shen Jiu grew up in a society where women are inherently lesser— and he grew up in an extreme version of this. He saw women being treated as property firsthand(both as slaves, as well as QJL’s views on his sister). Your worldview is shaped by the world that you view during those early years. Whether he agreed or not, SJ would still take on the patterns of his environment. This, though, is just the same as general societal misogyny and ingrained bias. I don’t think he’s any different than anyone else in this way.

But where SJ’s particular flavor comes in is that to him, women are a source of comfort. For various reasons— positive past experiences, less threatening (or at least don’t carry the dangers men do). He craves comfort— needs it really, because he doesn’t get it and his cortisol levels are always so high they’re poisoning his body. Women are the best source of that comfort for him.

It’s not that he likes them— at least, not any more than someone would like drinking water, or a coat in the winter. They’re fulfilling a survival need for him.

That is what the objectification is where SJ is concerned.

So… is it misogyny?

I’d say yes, in a way it still is. It’s not violent, and it doesn’t come from some inherent sense of “superiority as a man” but at the core of it all, he’s still not viewing women as people, and he has no interest in changing the status quo, because it benefits him to be able to go purchase comfort at a pleasure house, even if it’s not what people usually do there. The picture is bigger than just misogyny, but the traits taken as themselves are misogynistic nonetheless.

I could go into his specific relationships with women and how that informs his character, but this post is already long enough. We know that he mentally divides people by sex, and that distinction has a lot of weight in his judgment of them. Even if it comes from a place of trauma, even if it comes from a general worldview that applies to everyone, he still views women as a commodity— so on some level, and from an outside perspective, he is misogynistic.

In the end, though, it still all comes from him being stuck in survival mode. His lack of empathy, his viewing others as risks and benefits— these things themselves aren’t moral failings— it’s just a consequence of his environment. He’s a bad person because he won’t confront this, develop a moral code, and act on it, not because he doesn’t experience empathy.

But in his circumstance, there’s not really a chance for him to choose to be good. Because he’s still trying to survive, and goodness is a luxury he doesn’t realize he can afford now.

He’s scum, but pitiful, you know?

[themyscirah]

Complaining abt Suicide Squad yet again but the fact that they have Waller exposing the alien community to space racist attacks and talking abt how she got to her position through deceit and being a terrible person and stuff is just. Ahsfiwueh JUST SAY YOU DONT KNOW WALLER.

Anyways literally the 3rd mission of the Squad ever (and the first framed as smth Waller picked and not orders from above) was the Squad discrediting and stopping a rogue vigilante who was only arresting POC and funneling white people into white supremacy groups (of which he was the most prominent member) in SUICIDE SQUAD #4. and it's explicitly framed as this mission being personal for Waller that she's hiding from the government bc its illegal like. Guys. Please why are we having her incite (space bc comics) racist attacks now

Also the whole "Amanda got her position through deceit and being a terrible person" NO. she KEPT her position through being shitty and playing complicated political games!!! She wasn't always that way like there is a difference and it is IMPORTANT ppl PLEASEEEE. In Secret Origins #14 we learn Amanda's backstory and she used to be a normal, caring person! Like even after she entered into working in government and politics she wasn't automatically morally bankrupt like please people. She was originally given control of the Squad by Reagan (*sigh* 80s comics...) to distract and get rid of her because she was so successful at pushing progressive social policy in Congress. Acting like she's this static pillar of evil is such a waste of her character and so fucking uninteresting and disrespectful to her arc it drives me MAD.

Like I am NOT saying Waller is all sunshine and rainbows, she fucking SUCKS (said w love <3) but like there's a human being there. It's a progression, she has a character arc like please, DC, please!!! They've fucked up Waller so bad and made her so opaque and uninteresting she can't even be the protagonist of her own story for fucks sake!

Like I don't know how many times I have to scream it until DC hears me or remembers but WALLER IS THE MAIN CHARACTER OF SUICIDE SQUAD. ITS HER BOOK. yet right now she's a cutout to be used as the villain wherever the writers please. Even in her book we get none of her perspective really displayed, no exploration of her thoughts with any kind of understanding of the role she traditionally has played and was made to play in the story.

[fallowtail]

controversial take here but i really hope hetty is on her absolute worst nastygirl/comedic clown behavior in s4 to push back against the poor little meow meow woobification curse shes been experiencing since holes because i am tired