#new fandom same bullshit

[god-i-hope-so]

I wonder how many of Tommy haters ever experienced racism. My guess is a very small part of them because let me tell you one thing: you don't spend after work time with your racist coworker on your own. EVER. You don't share stories and jokes with them. EVER. You know the mental cost of spending time with a racist when you're a poc? No you don't. And you think Hen and Chim would choose to spend their free time with a racist instead of anyone else? Instead of going home? No one forced them, and there's no one else. They decided to have drinks together because Tommy changed and they want to support change.

You can call out his past behavior, absolutely, and I did it myself because it needs to be done. You know what needs to be done too? Acknowledge positive change. It's crucial to see and support change. Change is what makes the world better, little by little. But you wouldn't know if you're not a poc, right? How does it feel to be a white knight trying to get some "good ally" points from the poc you use for you hate campaign? All that for a fucking ship? Is it worth it? Do you have your ship canon now?

But please, educate me on racism and how Hen and Chim acted in S2, apparently forced (by who?) to spend their free time with Tommy.

[rotteneldritchhorror]

They gave Topper a girlfriend— devastating actually, I hope he stays fucking insane and obsessive and possessive and a little bitch cause otherwise what’s the poooiiinntttt

I need my kooks PATHETIC and USELESS. She better blow up on him for ignoring her to do whatever Rafe’s asking of him this time, I need him to be the worst boyfriend ever cause there’s no way that man can Be Normal for a second lol

[vellichorom]

( via @maryssecretblog )

cracks my knuckles so hard i break my hands; ohh beloved mary i've been sitting on a mountain of bitterness since i first picked up hollow knight in 2020, & i'm sure i've said a couple of these things on main before but i'm laying them out again Right Now

the hollow knight fandom is fucking HORRIBLE about godseeker & i will never not be upset about it;

for being the gateway manifest to the game's infamous boss rush DLC that feeds us a little extra lore, leads to the ending most favor & introduces THE SHADE LORD - everyone's FAVORITE manifestation of the void & evolution of the protagonist... she is so painfully overlooked,

& if she's not painfully overlooked, she is disgustingly sexualized; her glorification of abuse by the hands of a god bastardized & taken to paint her as a pervert ( WHICH IS ESPECIALLY ABHORRENT if you stand with the idea that the protagonist is likely Not an Adult & the shade lord is undoubtedly The Protagonist ), her role twisted & simplified to be the shade lord's / the knight's bitch or wife or someone it needs to avoid because she's some kind of predator;

& if she's not sexualized or used as ship fodder, then she is treated as a horrible BITCH who deserves her death & every bit OF abuse one can fling at her because she dared not be nice to The Protagonist - nevermind that plenty of other characters can do the same or straight up KILL THEM & they're seen as fandom favorites ( see; Tiso, The Pale King, Hornet, fucking Everyone in the game ) & nevermind the fact that The Protag also invaded her mind without permission & started fucking around ( not that i'm saying it deserves to be bashed for it but you know. it did walk into the ass kicking arena (( the godseeker / knight dynamic isn't a fault of anyone's, it's just a lot of ' you did this so now this happens ' )) )

& i'm so. sick. can we take off our jackass glasses for 5 seconds & look at her critically, i'm begging you. hollow knight fandom. i'm going to strangle someone

godseeker is a FASCINATING character, right up there with all the higher beings themselves; godseeker is a character that hails from a far off land, presumably forsaken by the gods of it to the point that it stands in perpetual ruin, having toiled & crawled her way to hallownest in search of the pale king's divine light only to be met with a KINGDOM of powerful gods. only to be MYSTERIOUSLY locked up before being able to attune until you, as the protagonist, free her. & that pretty much unleashes a domino effect that has a severe impact on what remains of the kingdom, that has a severe impact on EVERYONE'S fate including her own, depending on what you do.

you can choose to take on the remnants of the kingdom's gods, slay the one causing the plague that took them all out, & in your escape from her mind, punish & kill the one who perpetuated their legends, & EVEN end up in purgatory with her, where now YOU are the god of gods, at the cost of your freedom as well as her's - to live in glory forevermore.

but oh no, she's the whore bitch who was a little mean to you & wants daddy god to punish her.

get out of my sight you fucking worm you know nothing

[premaritalhug]

"You can't ship Dirk with a woman. That's problematic. You're forcing him to be straight when in the narrative he's gay." *Ships Dirk with Egbert.* To be honest with you, I don't really care about any of this all that much. The idea that Dirk would shit his pants over someone drawing him going on a spaghetti dinner date Nepeta or something is ludicrous, as far as I'm concerned. I think he might play into the whole thing and pretend to be pissed because it was funny, but that's really about it, in my opinion. I just think it's kind of strange to see people up in arms about the sanctity of Dirk's sexuality while disregarding the fact that Hussie declared JEgbert to be trans at one point.

[hexcrystals]

canyon didn’t get the memo that we were leaving posts about how izzy isn’t abusive bc of reason x and y and z that have been pulled out of a proverbial ass and are directly contradicted by canon in 2023 then huh

[arodrwho]

whenever anybody says xyz is the new destiel putin election all i can think is that they either a) must not have actually been on tumblr that day or b) fundamentally misunderstood what made that day so wildly cathartic

[vampirismadvocate]

I’m not a “fandom mom”. I’m a fandom union rep.

[chippdhearts]

I want to try and post a good variety of stuff bc I'm scared that people who followed me for a certain thing will get upset with me for not posting a lot of it/at all. But also I really do go through phases of hyperfixation so I'll tend to dump a lot of one thing and move on.

[v-eilfire]

why the CoD fandom is obsessed with throwing away money on every single new carbon copy release that’s just a cashgrab is beyond me.

[sea-salted-wolverine]

my mutual, my love dove, my baby girl (gender neutral) we do not share the same tastes, and that is okay. You are responsible for at least one if not more of the filtered tags on my dash. I love you, but I do not love the things that you love. I fully believe that you said something clever and witty and insightful about one of the most deranged derivative pieces of media on earth. I do not know if you actually said something witty and clever because I have the tag blocked. I appreciate your tagging habits that allow me to do this.

Apple of my eye, delight of my heart, you have recently gotten into a new thing. I did my research. I went into the tag. My darling this is the magic of online friendship. Because by God it is bad. And if I knew you in real life I would have to politely smile at a spot just behind your ear whilst you ramble on, but thank God for the tools that allow me to literally filter out your fascinations that I have no interest in.

Sweetheart, I strive to match your meticulous tagging habits that you may do the same to me. You do not need to hear me ramble on about redneck bullshit if you do not wish to. You may ignore my weird art shit with no ill will from me. My lukewarm takes on whatever fandom I've toppled into ass first need not mar your day. The power of the filter makes you a God and you may interact with the version of me that never talks about rocks for hours on end. Admittedly, if you filter out all of it I may be kind of quiet but if that is the version of me you wish to encounter upon the wild plains of this hellsite we call home, all power to you.

And do you know, my beloved, what the best part of all of this is?

We never need to bring it up because not once in a million years will I notice that you haven't interacted with some random genre of posts. Truly we are the masters of our fates. Blacklist that bitch.

[deadghosy]

Do you know about the Welcome Home fandom? So what about Wally Darling!Reader?

HAZBIN HOTEL X WALLY DARLING! READER

prompt: you are a greeter of the hazbin hotel! Who knew a muppet looking demon could be so colorful.

You are so soft spoken! Like that soft voice you have can hypnotize anyone into doing anything.

“hello, welcome to the hazbin hotel. i’m your greeter.” You say with a “:D” face

You’re so colorful and you’re definitely shorter than Lucifer…i can see Lucifer picking you up like a damn doll at times as you just smile with your muppet ass smile.

You’re just TOO DAMN CUTEEE! 🦆💗 literally even husk grumbles and gives you apples by the bar for you to stop giving him those doe eyes you give him when you are needy for apples.

I feel because of your muppet look, it would bring attention to yourself as a muppets looking demon is quite rare around the pentagram city, or even hell itself as Lucifer and Charlie have a muppet or Marionette look. 

Literally you are friends with Lucifer because of it and he finds your muppet look adorable. Even with your 3 ft height. (Yes I looked up his height and damn he short as hell!😭)

You are just chilling after greeting some new sinners in the hotel as you read the news paper, Lucifer comes out of no where. Dead ass reads the newspaper trying to understand your likes and dislikes.

“Lu-Lu?” You said softly as Lucifer awkwardly smiles and does finger guns at you. “Oh what a coincidence? What are you doing here..?” He says awkwardly as he sweatdrops at his attempt to start a conversation with you. “I live here?” You said raising a brow sitting down the newspaper.

“Oh I do too! What a very crazy thing?!” He says pointing his finger at himself as he poofs away in embarrassment as you just sat there…..*cue in pure confusion*

Alastor would not hate you because you are colorful, lemme be realistic. You two would be mutuals. Not like “oh I hate you but you are cool” type shit. I mean you two are the people who wave at each other but never approach each other because you don’t know if they like you fr. 🥲

One time a sinner had shoulder bumped you on purpose thinking you wasn’t gonna do anything…BUT NAH! YOU GRABBED THAT MF BY HIS NECK AS A SHADOW COVERS YOUR FACE, only leaving your eyes showing as you kick they ass out. You ain’t dealin' with no bullshit at this establishment. And for your friend’s sake.

Angel likes to play with makeup with your face since it’s calling out for his makeup kit. Literally he does blue eyeshadow on you.

I headcannon you wear blue eyeshadow just like how Wally’s eyelid is blue up there. Dead ass it would be cute if it was just blue eye shadow and you had a natural blush on your cheeks. You are quite beautiful reader💗😘

Since Angel is a drag queen, he would also try to make you wear drag queen makeup only for you to sneeze at how much product he used…yeah he never used it on your face.

You’re beautiful natural anyway…just don’t sneeze in his face. Ever again.

You definitely look like you listen to 1970-80’s jazz music as you dance in the lobby with Alastor nodding along happy. Just two jazz buddies liking jazz.

I can imagine Charlie trying to hold you back from eating the fruit gift basket for the guests…you’re only aiming for the damn apples as your mouth was drooling for it.

Imagine Vox has you on his channel because he brided you with apples. He stalked you through your tv you had that has rainbows and apples on it-

Well anyways Alastor “recused” you because you just sat there “begging” to be saved is what he saved when you munched on an apple confused by why Alastor came to take you away from Vox.

If you and Lucifer hung out doing hobbies together, which he suggested. You’re panting a portrait as he makes a duck based off of you….he can’t help but show affection of making you a duck version of yourself.

Niffty and you definitely get along well as hell! As you two have the same fashion taste as you both will dance to the genre of music you guys like.

With you being the greeter, you always have a soft smile and a soft approach to make the guest and residents feel safe in the hotel.

Sir Pentious will absolutely admire you…like a friend crush. He just wants to be your friend but you are too pure to approach as he thinks he won’t be cool enough to be your friend.

Imagine Valentino seeing you shopping and he tried to approach you only for a red smoke to cover you as you blinked confused to see an overprotective Lucifer smiling at you as you had teleported to the hotel. But with Lucifer, you could see his real feelings as you felt confused.

After a few months you and Pentious became friends because of one of his egg boiz named Frank said his “boss” wants to be friends with you. You giggled and nodded as you and sir Pentious do trust exercises together when Charlie host them.

Husk had dilated eyes and purr at you because you scratched under his chin which made him snap out of his cat daze and slap your hand as you giggle with a soft gaze.

I headcannon Velvette to be your girl who makes your outfits in primary colors. Like that or just cute aesthetic kid core fits. 💗‼️

I can see how reader always gives balloons to sinners who had trouble reliving their childhood. So they give balloons out to the sinners who had childhood trauma. You are a greeter, and a hell of a good one. 🦆💗

Imagine how Wally! Reader has those safety pins that say “Welcome!” And it’s so cute because you made them a t hand and Lucifer saw his you had effort in it so he made you more to give out to the guests.

I feel like Valentino will try to get you under his contract so he can use your pretty look since you seem like a femboy….but really you’re just a little guy who likes apples and his friends.

YOU’RE ONLY 12 APPLES TALL! 😨

But the hazbin crew literally cockblock him to the point he just stops doing he was trying to do to you.

I can see Lucifer trying to impress you at times as he never has a friend that had a cute appearance like you so your blank eye stare always catches him off as you just stand there smiling so adorably.

I headcannon waking up to find an apple by your night stand as a note reads “hope you like the apple, my angel!”- Lu-Lu. You just blinked at the apple completely ignoring the note and eating the apple as you smile at the taste.

“…yummy apppleee….” You say until you open your eyes looking at the note. “Wait what.”

You had gave Lucifer back an apple basket with rubber ducks that had painted apples not it for your appreciation of the apples he gave you 

[autisticrosewilson]

It's not that I hate fanon or that I think fanon is inherently less intelligent or morally wrong, but a LOT of fanon is based in racism, misogyny, and classism that I feel like a lot of you accept without question.

WHY is Duke (Daredevil, son of a god, has never once allowed himself to be defined by anyone's actions but his own) relegated to a background role, only characterized by reacting to the whims of other bats?

Why is Babs - Birds of Prey leader and backbone of the hero society, tells Bruce to fuck off and die 4 times a day and is constantly ruining her relationships by being biased and unhinged - Gotham bound, the mature responsible mom of the group who never argues with Bruce and never gets in trouble?

Why is Dick, both a tactical genius and master manipulator, a himbo only appreciated for his sex appeal? Especially when he is both Romani (group of people demonized and condemned as hypersexual by their nature alone) and an SA victim.

WHY is Damian "feral" and "uncivilized" despite being raised as a literal prince? Half of you treat him like a sociopath with no hope of redemption for an unfunny three second joke and the other half of you go full throttle into Bruce's white savior bullshit so that Damian can be "redeemed". Y'know when you're not villainizing Talia and acting like Dick is his other parent, actually.

WHY is Stephanie - extremely intelligent detective who can't stand Bruce and has a living mother she loves - lumped in as another member of the Batfam, a blonde ditz who only cares about prank wars and emotionally supporting Tim?

WHY is Cass - intelligent, a grown adult, suicidal perfectionist - emotionally intelligent, primarily existing to support the characters around her, immediately accepting of everyone she meets regardless of her own morals?

Why is Bruce the golden standard? Enough so that though everyone in the fandom could agree that he's an emotionally unstable wreck, being considered "the most like him" is seen as a compliment and not the HIGHEST insult? Everyone would agree if I said that Bruce purposely self sabotages his relationship half the time and the other half he simply does things without caring about the emotional impact it will have on people because he has to be the smartest in the room, but if I said that makes him a shit partner and emotionally abusive parent the fandom would bend over backwards to argue with me.

Why is Tim "the best Robin" when Dick Grayson invented the mantle, it is impossible for someone to embody the spirit of Robin better than him because he made it and he created what being Robin means. Maybe Tim is the best in Bruce's eyes, but what Robin means and who has the right to give it over was a significant thing they argued about. Tim the high school drop out, and yet also somehow the smartest? Tim "the most like Bruce" except no he's not, that's Cass. Poor neglected, abused, victimized little Timmy (the rich boy at the elite boarding school with loving albeit busy parents and almost every instance of him being victimized by another character has either been racist bullshit - The Al Ghuls and Rose Wilson- or a complete 180 for the character that made no sense when examined through the lens of prior characterization - Jason for instance.)

Almost every fanon trope that gets passed around like gospel seems to deliberately push POC characters and women into the background and strip them of interesting complex traits and stories, usually for the purpose of fitting them all into bite sized incorrect quote character types and uncomplicated narrative roles that are not only completely divergent from canon, but primarily exist to prop up the two rich white boys.

Also the insistence that Bruce, a 20 year old at the time, should actually be excused for how much he mentally and emotionally fucked Dick up because really they're more like siblings! While deciding that Dick at the same age was actually the perfect candidate to be Damian's new parent/guardian...have you lost the fucking plot you don't even make sense to yourselves.

Okay I lied at the beginning, I do hate fanon. You guys are so uncritical about the media you consume it is BEYOND just letting people enjoy things and have fun. I guess it's one thing if you KNOW this stuff isn't canon and UNDERSTAND why these tropes are problematic and you engage with it as such, it's fine read and write what you want, but just spreading the same nonsense around and parading it around as "better than canon" (version of the character so bland and boring you've somehow made the old white men at DC look like geniuses in the art of representation) is just infuriating.

[sonderingdreams]

there is no doubt in kenma’s mind that he’s the lucky one in the relationship. sure did he establish bouncing balls corp? yeah. does he have his own successful fandom of thousands of unhinged fans that tune into his steams? yeah. is he best friends with multiple successful people that all originate back to teenage boy’s he knew from a volleyball team, that go back as far as high-school? yeah to that too.

but none of those titles compare to you. he doesn’t mean to get sappy or gross, really. but love does funny things to you. flips your whole world upside and makes you question everything. he didn’t plan for this to happen. didn’t see any of it coming and even admits to dismissing the idea of wanting it. that thing being well—love.

before it was a full blown distraction. and well he was wrong, but that’s something he’ll never admit to. so now tell me, how come the big great successful kenma can get jealous over something as stupid as you watching another arising popular streamer?

guys hitting you on those DM’s?

it does nothing but make him roll his eyes and snort. “they’re humping your leg like a dog. It’s so cringe.” kenma deadpans, a string a bleached blonde hair falling over his face before quickly blowing it away with a huff of hair. fans calling you hot?

he shrugs, raising a brow at his audience. “duh. thought that shit was obvious chat.” even going as far to admit that he gets the hype and he’s not bothered, he is not a foolish man. his friends gasping in utter shock at the idea of the kenma having a partner?

the same guy who is a “bum” that has so much power in his hands yet does nothing with it and chooses to stick his face in screens and live the quiet life?

he nods mindlessly when his friends even go as far to question how you two came to be. calling him lucky and claiming how un fair life could be. “ain’t no way. you’re telling me all I have to do is be a cooped up nerd and have luscious long hair to bag someone?”

kuroo grumbles out, crossing his arms with playful resentment. kenma simply rolls his eyes and picks at his food. “i got a partner that you said I so desperately needed. now you’re complaining?”

so now he’s at the doorway of your room, off to drop off your charger that you requested thinking you’re working just like him, to only see you watching something intently. he raises a brow, brushing it off as he fully enters your office, finally placing the charger on your desk.

he pauses, a grimace forming and contorting into distaste towards who ever was making you act like that. “this is what your work is?” he retorts with a deadpan grumble, crossing his arms and peering over your shoulder.

your eyebrows shoot up, now distracted from your entertaining stream and now on his as he examined your laptop screen with upmost suspicion. “kennie—

“he’s not even funny he’s obviously performing an act to his fans.” he comments bluntly, staring at your screen with heightened hyper fixation. if your eyebrows weren’t already raised they were now. it takes you a moment, before a lightbulb flicks on inside your head, the wheels turning and making an appearance when a smug smile tugs at your lips.

“oh? got a case of the big ugly green monster inside of you?” you remarked with crossed arms and a raised brow. this snaps kenma out of his haze of utter hatred, quickly retracting his leaned over position on your desk.

“fuck no. I’m just saying I can recognize a mid content creator when I see one.” he shoots back, letting out a scoff, stuffing his hands in his oversized hoodie. this earns nothing but laughter, you clasp a hand over your mouth, shaking your head in utter disbelief. wow.

the unbothered kodzuken was jealous? over a new well liked streamer coming to play in the streaming industry? “and I also know your claim is bullshit.” you singsonged back, pointing an accusatory finger at his chest. kenma takes a step back and huffs in disbelief, shaking his head before leaning forward and shutting your laptop in a sudden impulse of helplessness.

“quit dick riding average bare minimum content creators who only get attention cause they appease to their fan girls.” he remarks, with an eye roll of utter sass, leaving no room for debate. “besides. you don’t have time for that anyways. you’ll be streaming with me tonight.” he mutters gruffly, averting his gaze and already strategically finding ways to eliminate this new “opponent.”

“huh? since when? you never told me we had plans tonight?” you mused in disbelief and a hint of amusement, cocking your head slightly to the side.

“dunno know. since now. the fans have been requesting you for a while now anyways.” he quickly shoots back, waving off your questions dismissively. “what a coincidence.” you drawl out, watching as he leaves the room with a mask of annoyance but if you look close enough a smile of smug satisfaction tugs at his lips. he won this one.

[911bts]

I'm not getting in the middle of whatever bullshit drama is going on in this fandom. I operate this account (and the account on twitter) as a neutral unbiased source. I always have, and I always will.

If I don't post something, it's generally either because it doesn't provide new info (I could've posted 10 more photos of the bridge from filming the other day) or because I can't with 100% certainty tell you it's from 911.

I know the majority of the crew works for 911 exclusively during the season. I know that when something is posted, it's most likely from 911. But I don't always have a direct link confirming it's for 911, so I hold off.

I did it with one of the videos at the track. The crew member who posted it normally tags or mentions 911. They didn't. I waited until other people from the show also posted at that location. And then I posted it all.

I'm doing the same thing now. I'm waiting for secondary confirmation.

I hate misinformation. I try very hard not to share it. (I'm human. I make mistakes, but I try my best). I am very thoughtful in what I share. Don't use that to push whatever agenda that you wanna push. I'll post stuff when I post it.

[olderthannetfic]

Not gonna lie, sometimes being a writer in my native language feels... isolated and alienating. However not in the 'AO3 stats be low and less than English ones' that maybe one could thought of it at first, no, I know what I am doing writing and posting my non-English fanfics on AO3. I have really good friends and a minor readership that I love.

The isolation and alienation comes from people hating their own native languages and being so vocal (almost proud with others encouraging them) about it. Bet I am not the only who has see this. And I am sorry, but that just feel like hot bullshit. Why do you hate your own language that much? Why do you praise/treat like a better language English and English alone? Why do you say 'ew, a fanfic in my native language!" like that is a completely normal thing to say? I try to come with responses and their logic that aren't plain linguistic colonialism, but I can't. It feels alienating because I see it so. freaking. much. In Tumblr, in Discords, in Reddit, in Twitter, everywhere! Sometimes I have my lows and think 'man am I the wrong here? should I despise my own language, my own (literature) culture? everyone does it'. I respond with a 'no' obviously, since I keep writing in my native language and encourage everyone who approachs me to do it. That still doesn't erase the fact that seeing 'ew fics in my native language sucks!' comments in the wild are pretty demotivating and, to be quite honest, shitty, even if the people doing them aren't from my country.

This kind of feels like a consequence of how... imperialist (for a lack of a better word, sorry) the Internet has become in the past few years. Rather, the whole world, yes; and the Internet is just a part of it so of course fandom got affected by it. If it got affected by this puritanical, bigoted and radfem-y viewpoints, it was just a matter of time for this issue ('fics in English are superior/better in general/better to write/better to got numbers') to chime in. Damned 'globalization'. It was so fast.

--

I hate it. I hate it so much. It's been constant for decades (with the exception of a few languages like Mandarin). English isn't special! Whatever century's trade language can reach more people, but that's it: it isn't more beautiful, historic, nuanced, interesting, worthy, whatever.

And god is English not less cringey and terrible when it comes to words for dicks or squelchy sex noises or whatever else people find terminally embarrassing to write about. We native speakers had to get over it in order to write. Native speakers of anything can do the same!

Though, yes, Arabic-speaking anon from last time, I grant you that some languages' speakers are going to have to invent a whole new era of writing in the vernacular. Go forth. Write your Canterbury tales if that's what it takes.

[thirstkanaphan]

A Shipper's Perspective on SanSang

The San/Yeosang relationship receives positive and negative attention from the fandom. The majority of us find their bond really sweet! We coo when San clings to Yeosang and declares his love; we chuckle when Yeosang nods his head in shy acceptance.

On the extreme ends of the fandom spectrum, you encounter discourse that generally falls into two camps:

Yeosang is a hostage to San's overly-demonstrative affections

Yeosang is a homewrecker who broke up WooSan

These arguments are not new, but they increased in volume within the last year or two. I felt compelled to explore these arguments and put into words some of my complicated thoughts and feelings about this particular relationship. I also believe I'm in a unique position to comment on these arguments because...

I am a shipper. I've been in fandom spaces since I was a preteen (nearly 20 years!) and I am primarily drawn to a fandom when there is great potential for shipping. I was in the Hockey RPF fandom from 2012-2015 and wrote/consumed stories where NHL players kissed each other and sometimes got each other pregnant. These are my bona fides.

Everyone in the Hockey RPF fandom knew the rules. Don't break the fourth wall. Don't make it weird. Don't get delulu. We all understood that Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin were not secretly lovers pretending to be good friends and teammates (👀). We were there to have a good time and, more importantly, we all enjoyed hockey! I seriously got into hockey through fandom and attended many games. I still feel a huge swell of fondness when I catch the Pittsburgh Penguins on TV. THOSE ARE MY BOYS!

Before I found Ateez and joined this fandom, I was heavily into the BL genre and specifically Thai BL. The thing about Thai BL is that many of the most popular shows have nothing to do with their writing or directing or acting; they are popular because they star a "branded pair" of good-looking young men who perform fan service outside of their shows. While there are actual queer actors in the Thai BL genre, very few have the same level of global popularity as branded pairs.

ZeeNuNew, the hottest branded pair of the moment

Branded pairs are deliberately modeled on the kpop idol industry, which similarly encourages its young female audience to project m/m fantasies onto their faves. There's actually a whole Korean BL called Bump Up Business about two struggling idols (OnelyOneOf's Mill and Nine) who are paired together in a new group with instructions to appeal to fans through BGP: Business Gay Performance.

The key to a successful branded pair is to emulate as closely as possible m/m archetypes rooted in early '00s Japanese yaoi, which is the primogenitor for modern BL and remains a dominant influence in kpop fan-service.

Here are the main archetypes, as defined by the expert on the subject, AbsoluteBL:

seme: the active pursuer in the narrative (from the original attacker meaning of the word)

uke: the passive resistor in the narrative (defender)

AbsoluteBL clarifies: seme/uke is about who is in CONTROL of the relationship's story, as opposed to top/bottom, terms which come from the gay/queer community and pertain to sexual preference and (should) have nothing to do with narrative power dynamics.

Traditionally, the seme is physically larger and conventionally more masculine in appearance, while the uke is smaller and more feminine in appearance. The uke is often considered "pure" (yes, I know, problematic), which makes them all the more desirable. Female consumers project themselves onto the uke to enjoy a romantic fantasy without having to fully engage with the patriarchal bullshit baked into traditional m/f romance (AbsoluteBL calls this "heterosexual dysmorphia").

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Out of all the pairs in Ateez, SanSang are the most seme/uke-coded.

San is the pursuer. He wants to protect Yeosang because Yeosang is "cute" and "pure." San uses his size to put Yeosang into physical situations he must tolerate/endure for San's pleasure. San preens whenever Yeosang acknowledges him, compliments him, or initiates contact. San wants to take Yeosang to "Paradise" (Single's Inferno) and feed him steak in bed. Only San can kiss Yeosang, which he repeatedly tells atiny. We cannot have Yeosang, he belongs to San.

On paper (or on tumblr), this description would make anyone raise an eyebrow. For the anti-fans of this relationship, San is a bully who routinely takes advantage of Yeosang's gentle nature. I've even heard an argument that San's physical transformation prompted KQ to "reassign" him Yeosang as a fan-service partner in order to maximize their seme/uke appeal to fans. As evidence, fans point to Yeosang's tendency to flinch whenever San gets too close and his hesitancy to reciprocate when San boldly declares his love in front of the cameras.

I have a few responses to this characterization of their relationship.

Quick note: fan service is a feature, not a bug, of kpop. The HYBE internal docs that leaked last summer explicitly mentioned different ships among various Big4 groups and cited strategies for promoting certain ships among their own groups.

Ateez excels at fan service, and this is partially to do with their natural chemistry with and genuine affection for each other. But also, as a smaller company, KQ did not have the means or resources to provide media-training to Ateez in their early years AND they gave almost unfettered access to the members via the vlive app, which is how many kpop fans got to know smaller and newer groups.

The sale of vlive to HYBE, who proceeded to shut down the app and replace it with their own company-managed app, terminated that kind of easy and unrestricted access to idols.

From what I gather, Ateez's growing popularity can be attributed in part to how much the members charmed fans by being unscripted and candid in their live videos, often about their relationships with each other. Sometimes we saw too much, i.e., the Woo-San-Sang intervention during their Christmas live.

I think fans got used to a certain kind of fan service from Ateez, a kind of fan service that seemed to tease fans with a genuine "what if?" about their relationships. This was helped by the built-in narratives surrounding the members: Yunho and Mingi meeting in ninth grade; Wooyoung and Yeosang being trainees together; Seonghwa being inspired by Hongjoong to pursue his idol dream.

And of course, WooSan, but I'll get to them later.

Going to back to SanSang: if you watch their early content, you'll see that San was drawn to Yeosang and the feeling was reciprocated. You can find multiple examples of them cuddling, hugging, and being affectionate with each other going back to 2019. It's been going on since San's "twink" era!

However, while fan service comes naturally to San, it is not the same for Yeosang. In fact, while he excels at all other aspects of being an idol (such as vocals, performance, dance, visuals) he arguably lacks the instincts for fan service. He is different from someone like Jongho, who abstains from fan service unless he's in the mood, or Hongjoong, whose tsundere persona (another Japanese romance archetype) is part of the Matz appeal.

My fellow ateez meta writers have offered their thoughts about Yeosang and how he often suffers for lack of "killer instincts" within the group (they clearly adore each other, but they also fight each other for our love and attention). What is the cause of Yeosang's passivity? Is it lingering trauma from his trainee years? Is it his general tendency to be forgetful or oblivious about events happening around him? Yes, Yeosang is smart, clever, and has a dry sense of humor, but he's also the child that Hongjoong said was hardest to parent.

Then there's a Yeosang that we almost never see and we once glimpsed in a cute exchange between him and Mingi. It's implied that Mingi and Yeosang forgot they were being filmed and Yeosang spoke differently than he normally does on camera, which San observes in surprise. I am not a Korean speaker, but he sounds extra sweet and soft. If that's how he is at home, no wonder he inspires so much cuteness aggression in the members.

I'll also note that Yeosang's "flinch" response to fan service is similar no matter who handles him, whether it's Mingi, Wooyoung, or Jongho. Yet, San is his most persistent suitor and his actions draw the most attention, positive and negative.

Let's Talk About San

San's shiftable personality is something the members observed in an early vlive with Hongjoong, Mingi, Seonghwa, and Yunho.

Mingi: "which member has the most behavioral gap with and without a camera?"

Hongjoong suggests that Yeosang and Seonghwa are pretty much the same with or without a camera. But San behaves differently.

Hongjoong: "Seriously. In the absence of a camera...how should I put this...I'm having trouble putting it in a nice way...he has a pretty extreme character...his mood changes a lot...whenever we all gather for a conversation, he's like...it's fascinating! How does someone think like that? He acts like a normal person with a camera...he's very abnormal with us."

While Hongjoong is talking, the other three see San approaching and they all visibly get nervous.

San: "I heard you dissing me!"

I recap this live because I think it strengthens my interpretation of the SanSang relationship as informed more by San's personality than company mandates. I think San's extreme personality and his ability to shift into "character" in front of the camera enables him to similarly adapt to certain dynamics. He is very perceptive about what his members need out of fan service with him. He's Yunho's sweet boy; he's Seonghwa's pesky little brother; he's Jongho's favorite hyung; he's Mingi's goofball bro. We'll get to Wooyoung.

Thus, one theory is that San becomes the "seme" for Yeosang because he recognizes a need in Yeosang that isn't being met.

Let's revisit the 2024 Off The Record interview between San and Yeosang:

San: There's something I want to ask you. Did anything I did upset you?

Yeosang: Actually, for me, instead of being upset, I feel more like I owe you an apology. Because for example, when you say things like "I love you", you show your love and affection, for me it's not easy to reciprocate, so I feel like I owe you an apology. Sometimes, when you try to kiss me... how can I say it... my body's reaction to avoid it is automatic.

And when San replies that Yeosang has done nothing to upset him, Yeosang continues, unprompted:

Yeosang: Nothing upsets you... Thinking about it another way, this feeling of being upset, I don't think it's entirely negative. I feel like the closer the person is, It's easier to get upset about something. I often wonder if I'm not doing enough (also about taking care of San). It's a bit of a stretch to say something like "I'm going to do something to upset you," but I'm going to do my best to do it.

Let's go back a year earlier to Yeosang's message to San during San's 2023 birthday live:

Sometimes when san shows affection to me, I...hahah...because i’m a little shy, yes...so i really, i really like, i brush it away/discard it but still...to me who cannot express (affection well), Sanie approaching me like this first is (something) i’m always grateful for, and because i feel like i won’t ever be able to express that gratefulness well, so i’m sorry too, but still, i am always thinking very thankfully to Sanie who approaches me first like this.

After listening to this, San smiles softly and says, "You're mine."

I think a more cynical person could read these exchanges as Yeosang apologizing for not giving back enough to their fan service, but I think Yeosang is really saying that he wants to be an active participant in his relationship with San. He wants to be able to genuinely upset San, which he sees as a marker of close friendship. While there is still a part of him that remains uneasy with San's excessive physical affection, he wants to be more to San than just a pretty doll to play with. (Interestingly, this is how Jongho described his relationship with Wooyoung earlier in the ep: “am I an accessory to you?”) I don't think for one second that San feels anything less for Yeosang than intense care and adoration.

Given all of this, SanSang "should" work as a major ship!!

Fans should be falling all over themselves to romanticize the gentle, dominant seme coaxing the timid, traumatized uke into accepting his care and affection!

Yet instead, many in the fandom have a hard time accepting or appreciating the fan-service SanSang provide. It comes off as particularly inauthentic for them. Almost too much like a manhwa/yaoi manga.

The primary reason? WooSan.

Many folks have already written about the WooSan ship and why they find it so exciting and compelling. A lot of the reasons boil down to this: it could actually be real.

My non-shipper kpop friend, who listens to everything but doesn't participate in the fandom, told me at their concert that there was a time when she genuinely thought WooSan were in love.

The image above sums up fandom's perception of WooSan: Wooyoung leads, San follows. Wooyoung pushes, teases, pressures, initiates, while San watches him with the fondest look in his eyes. Wooyoung demands, San gives: his attention, his praise, his own flesh. For narrative purposes, Wooyoung is the seme, San is the uke.

This is an exciting dynamic for shippers, refreshing for its lack of traditional yaoi archetypes. Big, strong San getting pushed around by bratty Wooyoung and loving it. San wrote tragic fanfiction for their characters in Bouncy. San is so confident in Wooyoung's love for him that he jokes Wooyoung will "always come back" even if he strays to another members. San is Wooyoung's home.

The biggest Yeosang antis claim that SanSang is an insult to WooSan. They claim San only acts like he's close to Yeosang because the company separated WooSan after they got too close for comfort during Bouncy era. Fans point to fewer WooSan appearances and promotional activities; no more shippy moments during the logbooks; they rarely filmed tiktoks or tagged each other in instagram photos; there was less "soulmate" talk on lives and during interviews. To add insult to injury, they didn't even get a unit song: It's You is a three-man performance with Yeosang.

Another theory shared by a not-insignificant faction within the fandom is that Wooyoung would not permit himself to be put into the role of the passive, submissive uke, so KQ made the call that San should be more attentive to Yeosang.

I am sure there are multiple factors for why WooSan distanced themselves/were distanced after Bouncy-era (cue Oprah voice "were you silent? or were you silenced?"), and I do think some of that has to do with the meteoric rise of Ateez after Bouncy. I think all of them were savvy enough to realize that they could promote the group on more than just being yaoiteez, and San's skyrocketing fame contributed to that shift too, along with Wooyoung's own self-described internal character arc away from being the "sexy" member towards someone with more mystery and maturity.

I would argue that their "distance" had the result of redirecting our attention to how affectionate San already was with all the members. Suddenly we're noticing how clingy he is with Yunho, Seonghwa, and Jongho. Same goes for Yeosang. Their dynamics are nothing new, but I would argue the fandom's attention and scrutiny made it seem new.

While this cannot be an accurate measurement of anything really, compare how many fics are written about each pair:

San/Wooyoung: 7,525 works on Archive Of Our Own

San/Yeosang: 1,345 works on Archive Of Our Own

As a shipper, there are really interesting observations to make about why the SanSang ship does not work compared to the WooSan ship.

My main theory takes us back to those classic seme/uke dynamics that the SanSang dynamic reproduces through their fan service. When compared with WooSan, SanSang comes off as inauthentic because it's too obvious, too easy, too much like shipper bait. It's traditional yaoi-coded appeal is actually the turn-off!

Here's my other theory: many are uncomfortable with SanSang because it forces them to reckon with the very real Business Gay Performance scaffolding all idol fan service. Because if SanSang is obviously manufactured for attention, are other unit pairs the same?

A Final Few Words About Yeosang

Yeosang is the unfair recipient of a lot of hate by the fandom, for shipping and non-shipping reasons. It's awful and it needs to stop.

I also see a worrying trend among his staunchest defenders of infantilizing Yeosang, stripping him of agency in their battles on his behalf, whether it's for better line distribution, more solo promotions, and fashion week schedules. There was even talk of organizing protest trucks outside of KQ, which I personally find mortifying.

I sincerely hope that in the future Yeosang has more opportunities to shine as a singer, dancer, and performer. I also hope that he comes to a place of comfort and confidence in his abilities to give and receive affection from the people who love him the most, a struggle he's voiced publicly. I truly wish him the best!

A Final Few Words About Me!

As someone who was introduced to Ateez via shipping my initial understanding of these relationships was refracted through the lens of the fandom. It's rare for me to move from "fanon" to "canon" like I am with Ateez, where I'm catching up on all their content, vlogs, and interviews and trying to understand them as "real" people, to the extent that anyone can ever know an idol. I am now streaming and voting in addition to reading fic! I'm no longer lurking but actively participating as a fan! This is a whole new phase for me in my 15+ years of being in fandom.

The interesting thing about my journey is that while I entered the fandom through the side door, I've actually become more interested in their IRL relationships and dynamics. I still read fic of course, but like my Hockey RPF fandom days I am able to compartmentalize the part of my brain that goes "oh these pretty boys are in love and should kiss!" and the other part that goes "these enormously talented artists deserve my support and attention."

That being said, I still enjoy shipping and I enjoying talking about how RPF ships work in the context of the idol industry. SanSang is a great case study to think about these topics, and I hope others will respond and with their own meta.

Thank you for your time!