#nightmare time theory

[starkidsdraco]

What’s going on with Melissa’s friends?

To me, Melissa seems genuinely delusional. She really thinks they're dogs and cats. She was genuinely fooled by Paul pretending to be a cat. It makes me wonder if anything traumatic happened to her before the incident with Freddy chasing her. It must have been something really messed up if that's the case. I wonder what.

But, what about her friends? Did she just happen to find people with the same incredibly specific delusion? Is it a cult or is there something supernatural going on, whereby they actually see dog faces thinly veiled by human suits? Is a Lord in black at play?

Idk, it just got me wondering. I'm kinda leaning towards them all sharing the same exact delusion, or them following her lead and forming a cult. Maybe she even drugged or brainwashed them or something.

[epitome-of-an-openbook]

No, because people keep acting like Grace Chastity being consumed with a lust for the power that Lords in Black provided her doesn't count as a world ending Cataclysm - but it very much does. Not only has she shown little to no empathy for others throughout the entire show and only ever felt bad for lying to authority figures and being horny - but the final song of the Musical is essentially a reprise of Max's Murder Song/Manifesto which places her as a parallel to Max. Max sings about how he's going to kill ALL the Nerdy Prudes and not once but twice tells the audience that it doesn't matter if someone is actually a Nerdy Prude because he makes the rules and gets to decide who is or isn't a nerd etc etc. Grace's take is that she is going to kill all the Dirty Dudes but she's literally singing it to a guy who has, throughout the entire musical, done nothing to indicate he's a pervy/dirty dude and only kissed her after she asked him too. Like Max, Grace Chastity doesn't actually care if someone genuinely fits the framework of her stated victimology, because she has the power so she gets to make the rules.

Honestly it's like some people didn't think about the implications.

[rockrosethistle]

Ted being a horny bastard has nothing to do with the way he was raised and he's not just like that. It's a coping mechanism he's using to avoid confronting his feelings about Jenny. So that means Pete being such a horny little fuck in Abstinence Camp strongly suggests that is a behaviour he learned from Ted. Therefore, the Spankoffski brothers have to be closer than they appear. In this essay, I will—

[biggest-gaudiest-patronuses]

*tries to organize my thoughts*

*remembers i'm not in school and therefore beholden to neither heaven nor hell nor any man's grading system*

*joyously shredding & tossing all my carefully arranged 3x5 mental notecards into the air like so much beige confetti. raising my arms in victory, cheering raucously until i accidentally inhale bits of homemade confetti*

(*coughing up itty bits of paper like a cat evicting a hairball with a firm understanding of tenants' rights*) wait wat happens next

[ender-of-the-sender]

Okay, feel free to tell me I'm looking to hard into things because i probably am

This is Zeke the Nighthawk, Hatchetfield Highs beloved mascot.

And this is Ezekiel, elected leader of the checkered-tailed nighthawks and highly intelligent because of the good stuff

Is it just me or do they have a lot in common

•Nighthawks

•From Hatchetfield

•Anthropomorphic (in a way)

For gods sakes, they're both called Ezekiel

[nobodysdaydreams]

Hatchetverse Theory: The Parallels Between Paul (TGWDLM) and Grace (NPMD):

More thoughts and parallel screenshots under the keep reading, part of my #hatchetverse theory posts. Sorry these are all awful screen shots, I'm bad at gifs, but I hope I made my point.

The screenshots are pretty self-explanatory, but the parallels between Paul and Grace, especially with what happens to their characters at the end of their respective musicals, has been living in my head rent free, and I want to talk about it.

I've seen a lot of posts that speculate that the reason Grace went crazy at the end of NPMD is because she's just that blood thirsty and willing to kill, and while her character (at least of what I've seen of her in NPMD and what I've seen of nightmare time) is certainly intense, I wouldn't quite go so far to say she's always been that willing to hurt others, even for what she believes.

In fact, after rewatching NPMD, I realized something. When the kids first go to the Waylon Place, the others are the ones suggesting ways they can violently hurt Max. Pete even calls Grace's plan "goofy" and Richie is the one who suggests beating Max up. Grace is the one who tells them that all she wants to do is teach him a lesson and scare him and rejects their more violent ideas.

But after Max dies? That's when Grace's intensity starts taking a darker turn, and it's not as noticeable as it might be in the other kids because "Grace has always been kinda weird and intense" and the show has been playing that up for laughs since the beginning. But when you look at what happens to Grace in terms of her character's choices, she's the one who suddenly pulls a "bury the bully" plan out of nowhere when she was against even beating him up just a few hours ago. She's the one who suggests lying to the cops and trying to cover up what happened. She's the one who has a prophetic nightmare after the incident at the Waylon Place. That's also the moment when she symbolically loses her WWJD bracelet (though others have already pointed that out).

And if the LIB could infect Paul with spores just because he happened to be in close proximity to the meteor, then they could probably do something similar to any of the kids in the Waylon Place (and you cannot convince me that they were not the ones who collapsed the floorboards in the Waylon Place and killed Max).

But why would they target Grace you ask? Why not one of the other kids? That's a good question. I have a few theories.

The first has to do with what I mentioned before about hatchetverse's history of Webby's powers seeming to favor kids, and the LIB powers struggling to work on kids. We don't know how old most of the kids in NPMD are exactly, but the musical makes a point to tell us several times that Grace is "only 18" (Shaprio says she's a legal adult and will be tried as an adult in court). The musical also makes a point to have this be the Homecoming Dance (not Prom), which is in the fall, so most of the senior students wouldn't have turned 18 yet. We can also make an educated guess that Stephanie has turned 18 and Pete hasn't because she sings "wake me up when you turn 18" during their song. You could combat this by asking why the LIB never address Grace during the summoning and targeted Steph instead, which is a fair point. But interestingly, if you watch Grace, Steph, and Pete during the Summoning, Grace is silent most of the song, but looks completely horrified (especially when they tell her that they want what she cherishes most), despite the fact that from our perspective, the LIB aren't talking to her. She also seems to know exactly what the LIB want from her, because the next scene she's in is when she shows up to save Steph and Pete. During the Summoning, Pete, on the other hand, seems to mostly be involved in the conversation the LIB are having with Stephanie, although Grace also seems to understand what the LIB want from Stephanie. It's possible that this was intentional on the LIB's part, since they can see every timeline (in the "Abstinence Camp" episode of Nightmare Time, Grace gets between Steph, Pete, and Lumberaxe, risking her own life so that Lumberaxe doesn't hurt them. Grace might be willing to lose her own life for what she believes, but she might not be willing to lose her friends' lives. If the LIB know this, they'd likely want to make sure Grace understands that Steph or Pete will die unless she's the one who pays the price).

They have a personal reason for wanting her. In TGWDLM, Pokey hates Paul because...well, Paul doesn't like musicals but bigger picture, Paul resists Pokey's hive mind. Why would the LIB hate Grace? Possibly because she hates evil, the devil, and sin to an extreme degree. It could be a point of pride for the LIB: "we got the guy who didn't like musicals to join our musical and brainwash the world, and we got the girl who didn't like sin to devour souls for us." I've also seen a theory that Paul has some sort of resistance to the LIB because he doesn't like musicals and in a way sort of serves as a "prophet" in TGWDLM by warning others that musicals are bad. Grace arguably serves a similar role to Max in NPMD. She suggests Max becomes a better person "before he ends up in hell", which is ironic because then Max goes on to beat up Pete, which turns the nerds against him, setting off the chain of events that eventually lead him to actually being sent to hell (the black) by Grace. I've also seen some other theories suggesting that the LIB getting Paul in TGWDLM was really about getting Emma (since she was the one who starred in a musical before), and following that logic, it's possible that the LIB killing Max at the Waylon Place was really about getting Grace, because she'd still actually be alive. The LIB might have known this would work if they knew Max and Grace liked each other, and as seen in nightmare time, Grace is willing to risk her own life for her friends, and this might be consistent across several timelines.

Speaking of sacrifice, I know I covered this with the gifs, but the fact that Paul's last act was giving up his life, and Grace's was giving up what was essentially her morality and who she was so they could save their friends, only to have themselves turned into the very monsters they tried to destroy? Absolute tragedy.

But what's also interesting to me is how this happens. The way Grace and Paul both seem to lose control of themselves. With Paul it happens in one song and is more noticeable, but with Grace, it's a lot slower, and the more bad and morally questionable stuff she does, the funnier it is, and her character has been intense and over the top from the beginning, so you almost don't notice the difference in her actions until you rewatch the show. But her and Paul asking "Who am I?" has a similar creepy vibe, the screenshots I found for those moments (pictured below) even ended up looking very similar, though with Paul, you can see more of the fight happening during the song, whereas with Grace, it's more drawn out over the course of the show with these little moments of clarity where she has a complete breakdown.

Then of course there's the whole: What do you want thing?

Why do the LIB want what Grace cherishes most? Why do they want Paul to want anything at all?

And why do they phrase it in the creepiest way possible, asking for "a peek at Paul's soul" and telling him to "give up his choice" and telling Grace that they'll get "whatever they want" and that she'll "be forever in their debt?"

Well, probably because that does seem to be what happens. The most obvious screenshot parallels are probably their final numbers in their shows, which I think speak for themselves. The only unknown is what exactly is happening with the LIB and their whole "what do you want" thing. By taking what someone wants, do they replace that "want" in the person with wanting to serve them? How does that work?

At this point, I'm not sure, and I'm too tired to continue the rant, but I'd be happy to hear anyone else's thoughts on this.

I hope you enjoy Starkid fandom. Thank you for listening to my rants!

[thericeballofcamelot]

So, you know how tinky's whole thing is time travel and he says he wants the full set of Spankoffski brothers? - What if Pizza Pete... is actually Pete Spankoffski? Like, Tinky transports Pete to before the time split and like Ted, he's homeless at first, but he's a lot more resourceful than Ted and he sets up this tiny pizza business that eventually grows into Pizza Pete's. He builds a life for himself and he makes decent money - he's not happy though. He'll never be with Steph.

Imagine modern day Pete and Steph going to Pizza Pete's on a date and Steph decides they have to leave because the manager won't stop staring at her, but she doesn't realise it's because she was his best friend once - and she's still the thing he treasures above all else.

[hazieash]

Zombnaan from the season 6 trailer today

[dontmixpaintinyourcoffee]

Some thoughts while I'm watching Nerdy Prudes Must Die for the first time:

After the Big Game, something that's been itching my brain for a while came back- Clivesdale. Hatchet Town is reinforcing this, but since Black Friday and Honey Queen the Clivesdale hate has really started to stand out to me. Yes it's a funny gag, but the Hatchetfield disdain for Clivesdale is straight-up cultish. Laura Cunningham (I think was her name?) had lived in Hatchetfield for 15 years, but was entirely excommunicated when it came out that she was from Clivesdale. Keep in mind, she was well-liked enough to be a Honey Queen candidate. Two teenagers are brutally murdered and everyone is more focused on the loss against the Chemists. Even people who hate Hatchetfield like Emma and Ziggy hate Clivesdale more. The general population of Hatchetfield is so feverish. I know that the Wiggly doll riots happened all over the world, but holy SHIT it didn't take any time at all for Hatchetfield to totally cave in on itself!

Here's the other thing that gets me- has anyone ever really left Hatchetfield? Anyone who wanted to?

•Emma Perkins has exactly one life goal- not to die in Hatchetfield. Her entire life had been, up until Jane's death, about getting away from Hatchetfield. She is officially pronounced dead after the explosion at Starlight Theatre, though she survived in Clivesdale Hospital. She only lived for a couple weeks after "dying" in Hatchetfield. She also dies almost immediately after returning to her hometown in the events of Forever and Always. She does not die after the fire at her weed farm, but she is arrested and presumably imprisoned in Hatchetfield.

•Frank Pricely is imprisoned by Sherman Young after his attempted escape.

•Alice Woodward dies in The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals before she can leave for college. In fact, she dies after skipping the bus to Clivesdale

•Lex and Hannah Foster (along with Ethan Greene) have plans to escape Hatchetfield and head to California. All of them die before they can even get past Nantucket bridge.

•Zoey Chambers wants to win Honey Queen for the funds to get out of Hatchetfield. In both Honey Queen and The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals she dies before she has the chance to leave.

•Jonathan Brisby attempts to retrieve Lucy Stockworth from Hatchetfield. Brisby dies in the woods, Lucy disappears in the same woods with the Woolyfoot.

•Jenny and Andy planned to move to Clivesdale, but Jenny dies before she can leave, and by the time Andy becomes Andrew Killgore he's back at CCRP in Hatchetfield. Obviously this is wobbly because of timeline shenanigans, but it's implied that Ted didn't actually cross timelines during the events of Time Bastard, just fucked around in his own a lot.

There's just something. There's something about Hatchetfield. It's like a black hole. If it wants you there, and it does, you always end up there, and it's not likely you'll leave a second time.

Something about the ambient affects of the town absolutely fascinates me, I've been thinking about this stuff for like 5 years and it's not gotten old to me yet

[isogenderskitty]

i’ve been thinking about this edit idea all day so i had to make it before i went to bed or i’d go goddamn bananas

anyway in case you haven’t heard, lumber axe & max jägerman are the same guy and this theory is my roman empire

[sparrowlucero]

if that story is true and Moffat wrote the Doctor's Wife, why wouldn't he just give himself credit?

He didn't write the Doctor's Wife, exactly; it /is/ a work by Gaiman, it's just that Moffat is rumored to have done some pretty heavy rewrites which likely should have warranted a cowriting credit.

Quite honestly this is normal, pretty much any given episode you see is going to have a ton of input from the showrunner (yes, even the ones they said they didn't edit at all), and it's (to my knowledge) up to them if they feel that warrants a cowriting credit. If true, I'm sure Gaiman being a guest writer who's name would undoubtedly draw viewers was certainly a big factor in Moffat leaving himself uncredited; "co written by Neil Gaiman" is just not a good look for marketing.

(The only reason it's notable here is because Gaiman later came off as a bit unprofessional and vindictive toward the production over his second episode (which was very poorly received), usually describing it along the lines of him having wrote a great script he was very proud of and the people working on Doctor Who not understanding his vision or not giving him as much creative control. So "actually, it seems very likely that he had a lot of creative control on the bad one and a lot of rewrites and guidance on the good one" is just a funny little counter to it all.)

[monstrousaffections1]

Hatchetfield theories. There is one slight detail I have noticed when it comes to the Lib's Witches, specifically a similar theme of Willabella and Grace. It's not a obvious detail bit one noticeable if you think about it. They are the Powerless given Power. Let me explain. Willabella was probably an unmarried, low class, poverty level woman in the 1820s. And if we really wanted to specify, she was probably a Washer Woman. Anyhow, in this period of time, a woman couldn't own property, they had a dowry and anything that was her inheritance, even a linen smock, would belong to her husband. Any legal right she had would be passed to her husband. Basically, the moment she would get married she would lose a lot of her own rights. In this, it was also an unmarried woman may be shunned by the community. Considered a Spinster, perhaps even denied any feasible employment. And Willabella is described as living in a hovel. Probably in the woods and likely isolated from the rest of the community. So she was likely a form of Outcast even before the LIB got involved with her. And now with Grace, yes she is from the modern world and thus has way more rights and stuff. But, she grew up in Purity Culture. Probably a Evangelical Church. She'd have been hearing since she was small, "Now every time you kiss a boy you become like a chewed piece of gum, and who's gonna want that?" and other such metaphors about how worthless she'd be if she doesn't wait for marriage. Not to mention the whole, not allowed to divorce even in abusive marriages. And the concept of consent meaning, not her's, but God's, and after marriage consent wouldn't matter anymore. (I know not all Christians and churches are like this, but I think we can all agree that Grace's church is a bit more of the extreme side of Purity Culture) Both Willabella and Grace come from cultures and environments that puts them at the mercy of the men of their communities, they are essentially either powerless, or thinking they are powerless. One is Indoctrinated, the other literally has no legal rights what so ever. Then the LIB show up and give them access to these magic powers, witchcraft and other such things. And the first thing that these two do, is, in their view. Start hurting the people who have hurt them. Willabella the entire community of Hatchetfield, and Grace, the dirty dudes.

[iamdispleased]

I DECIPHERED SOME OF THE BLACK BOOK & FOUND MISS HOLLOWAY LORE.

ART CREDIT: @thirdchildart

Part Two.

TW: RELIGION

SPOILERS: the Black Book, Miss Holloway lore

It’s pretty solid foundation for lore, but please keep in mind that I couldn’t make out everything, and there might be some mistakes. If it’s not, then I’m a fool, and my eyes still hurting from an intense squinting session means nothing.

THIS IS WHAT I’VE GLEAMED:

“[They] warned me I was a fool to seek out the lords and I [?] [?] but I hope searching for [a/s_?] will [?] [wor_?]. [p_?] of Holoy Blane/Blame(?) found a way [?] in Hatchetfield. And I [lo_?] [?] me [?] [?] [?] pages in the [b_?] what [?] [ago/I go?] myself [?] [?] world.”

“And now [?] with my mind and per. [D_?] of a mind. Into the Black and White.”

I know it’s not a lot, but…

Here’s why I think this is pretty bitchin’ lore wise.

If my assumptions are correct, Willabella was warned that she was “a fool to seek out the lords”, and I think the people who warned her were the Hatchetmen. It’s also worth noting the the very first page of the Black Book says, “You are a fool to seek the Black and White.”

She also mentions someone named Holoy Blane/Blame “finding a way” in Hatchetfield. I believe Holoy Blane/Blame (probably pronounced Holly) is Miss Holloway, and that Miss Holloway may have been the first to find a way to directly access the Black and White. In Killer Track, Miss Holloway changes her name to Miss Holiday— an absurdly similar name.

The Hatchetverse is notorious for having characters’ identities blatantly lining up with their names.

For example:

Man in a Hurry = Barry Swift

Greenpeace Girl = Harmony Jones

Lex and Hannah Foster have shit parents.

Grace Chasity is pretty obvious— chastity.

The Hatchetverse is full of religious themes.

Mainly Christianity based, and the name “Holoy Blane/Blame” could be a reference to “being holy and blameless” from the Bible, said by Paul the Apostle.

“He has now reconciled by the death of his body, so that he may present you holy and blameless, and above reproach in his sight.” Colossians 1:22.

Basically, Jesus died in a human body to windshield wipe away our sins, leaving us holy, blameless, and innocent.

There are three reasons for why Jesus’ violent death was the sacrifice needed to save people from their sins. He says the three reasons for Jesus’ painful death in a human body was to, one: present us as holy, for we cannot be holy without his sacrifice on our behalf, two: as we still sin in this life, his sacrifices provides forgiveness for our sins, so we are blameless, and three: something about innocence. I can’t remember, but you get the gist.

So, basically, Miss Holloway’s deal with the Lords mirrors Jesus’ sacrifice.

She sacrificed everything to keep evil at bay. She goes around, helping those who cannot find answers themselves. I’d say she also mirrors what Jesus is supposed to embody, especially considering she can literally resurrect. I would also say the Foster sisters embody the myth as well, especially when you know that Lex and Hannah are both in shop class, and Jesus was a carpenter.

The Black Book page line by line:

[leeleezee]

Hey I’m gonna try to explain an idea I’ve had

It’s about Ted and Peter Spankoffski and the bow ties.

Originally we see him with this dark red one.

In tgwdlm Ted is still there. Not taken by Tinky yet.

Same with Abstinence Camp in Nightmare Time 2

Nice red one and Ted is still alive in universe.

However, we don’t see or meet Ted in NPMD. Not really mentioned besides Tinky. Now the LiB are aware of a the timelines so it could have been that. Or it could have been Tinky took Ted already and Pete doesn’t like to talk about his brother who went missing. In NPMD he doesn’t have a red bow tie. It’s green plaid.

Same with the suspenders I’m noticing. They match. Anyway, while Pete doesn’t where this classic outfit the whole show, he is wearing something different than his other two iterations.

So what if in his grief over losing his brother, Pete wears the green one that Ted got him. I have head canon that Ted bought him his first bow tie because he wanted it and I just think it’s fun. But then sad when Ted goes missing and Pete only wears the bow tie Ted got him.

And then at the end of NPMD at homecoming Pete’s wearing the red bow tie again.

So it’s not just they didn’t have the red bow tie, right? I can’t put into smart words what it represents. But I feel it means something. I feeeeel it.

[nerdy-prude]

‼️SPOILERS FOR HATCHETFIELD LORE AHEAD ‼️

Let me introduce you to what I like to call The Lords in Black theory

Notice how in NPMD during The Summoning each of our remaining main characters are told something by a lord in black.

Blinky says: 'We've been watching you, Gracie. Someones been a naughty girl'

Tinky says: 'Oh boy! A Spankoffski! I'm gonna have the whole set in my toy box!'

Nibbly says: 'Stephanie, yum yum!'

Now, as we already know, Hannah is kinda like 'The chosen one' of the Hatchetfield universe. She plays a major part in BF, from the very begining she hates Wiggly. Wiggly on the other hand, is kinda like the leader of his brothers.

In Yellowjacket Hannah is fighting Pokey but she can't defeat her until Lex, a powerfull, MAJOR CHARACTER and her own sister shows up.

It seems as if all of the brothers are somehow connected to one of these major characters. All of these characters are important parts of the story and have shown to be powerful in some way. With Lex and Hannah their power is more clear since they have the gift, but think about it, we don't really know that many people who have had the Black book, even less good people who have had it.

But there is one very much good character who has had and used the Black book. Miss Holloway, everyones favorite witch lady who in every universe fights Wilbur Cross, the guy who has been described as the ultimate bad.

Now some of you might be thinking: "Okay, well that doesn't yet prove anything. There should be bigger evidence if they were actually connected. Their stories should be tied together" Well, funny you should say that! Lets take a deeper dive, shall we?

Wiggly-Hannah

Both are the 'leaders'with the most power. Hannah and Wiggly says to her: "We just keep running into each other, don't we Hannah"

Pokey-Lex

In Yellowjackect it was made very clear that Otho was incredibly powerfull and no one could defeat him. Lex did just that. Also, I am not trying to say any of the brothers are more powerfull than others (well, maybe expect Wiggly) but the thing is, we know that there is a world where Pokey wins. We know his powers. We also know Lex' powers. It would make sense that out off all of them Lex would be connected to her.

Tinky-Peter

Tinky hates Ted with a burning passion, that is why he trapped him. It makes sense that he would be after his brother too. Also kinda unrelated and doesn't prove much but it would be funny that when Peter says: "I have been waiting for what feels like five ducking years and I still haven't gotten my hot chocolate" would have more meaning than just a funny bit. Almost as if he could feel that in another universe five years agohe ordered a hot chocolate and never got it. Like he could sense TIME and SPACE differently?

Nibbly-Stephanie

Whose dad has had the Black book? Oh right, Stephs! And what did mayor Solomon Lauter say abou the black book again? Wasn't it something like: " ...It comes with a price, a terrible price" and "No! I am not touching that book ever again"?

And who has a major part in organaizing the Honey Queen festival? That's right, the mayor! Who has shown multiple rimes they will do anything to keep getting elected? Who has shown to be interested in power? Who has shown to be 'Hungry'?

What if he cast a spell and Nibbly wanted her daughter as a sacrafice? What if he then gave something else. Something that made him bury the book. It might have worked for a while. But Stephanies fate was already sealed. Nibbly still wanted to have Steph tho, he tought she'd be yummy.

Blinky-Grace

Ahh, Grace, Grace, Grace...

I have to admit, she was more of a mystery to me but lets SEE what we can FIND. (Laughs in Jigglypuff)

Grace is the perfect Christian girl. She never does anything wrong! But then she just snaps? She very quickly comes up with a plan on how to hide a body. Then at the end she goes after 'the souls of the pervs'. But to everyone around her she still looks like an innocent young girl. Makes you wonder what else she has hidden. Makes you wonder about the other alternative universes. Maybe Blinky was referring to many different Grace Chasities. He ment the many different things Grace has done bc of her faith and hidden from anyone elses eyes. Only problem for her is that you can't hide anthing from Blinky.

[breadwithoutcheesefan1009]

I *need* a Film Theory on the hatchetverse