#operator discussion

[lighthouse-guardian]

in today's episode of Not As Useless As Players Make Them Out To Be: Verdant.

the main complaint thrown in his direction is that his damage is poor and any other utility nonexistent, which would be a fair criticism if he was a dps or a support. but he isn't. what Verdant is instead is a low dp cost self-healing ranged attack bait who can take a one-shot if he needs to and then keep baiting attacks because death is a social construct to him. the often overlooked s1 might be a boring passive survivability skill but it does in fact make him even more passively survivable. his only task is to stay alive and he DOES that, so that your other operators won't have to. people shit on him and for what. being good at his one job

[lurker2773]

Characterization for the Hex if the Operator were sent back instead of the Drifter

I like to think about what 1999 could have been if the Lotus sent the Operator back to follow Entrati and not the Drifter. I know it makes the most sense from a character development standpoint to send Drifter, but the Operator is a much more experienced and capable (lorewise) warframe combatant with countless years of practice under their belt - it'd have been equally pragmatic to send the Starchild to 1999 to make sure whatever needs to get done in there happens and have the drifter get trained up and acclimated to the Origin system where there are other tenno to rely on to make up for inexperience and general rookie-ness.

So instead of the Hex getting a grown-ass person with magic void powers from the future, they'd get to have a war veteran trauma child - bonus points if that child is nonverbal or refuses to speak directly to them, and the Hex have to interact with them through the KIM.

And also, consider that most players from a gameplay standpoint habitually keep their Operators cloaked to prevent them from getting shot once they leave their 'frames to do whatever - canonically, the Operator and Drifter don't have a time limit on cloak, I don't think. The Hex are basically never even going to see the kid, and that could be more terrifying. Imagine seeing a puppet version of what you could be, dangling from the strings of some invisible, intangible thing with superpowers and magic lasers coming out of their hands.

Imagine mid mission Arthur turns to look at the weird and mysterious time-travelling entity and just sees a collapsed Baruuk on it's knees or frozen completely still in a weird position before it suddenly zooms about thirty meters away midair and starts straightening itself back out again in ways that joints shouldn't move in before slamming into the ground and rushing headlong into a crowd of Scaldra to 'build melee combo,' whatever the hell the demon child means by that.

Here's the meat of the post, though - the Hex (and newcomers like Flare and Kaya) can play the Context(TM) game like they do with Drifter through KIM and slowly piece together that this is a magical child soldier with a bodycount larger than all the people they've ever collectively laid eyes on, and then react in interesting ways that would lend interesting characterization.

Eleanor and Arthur would be horrified, probably, and Arthur might start talking down to the Operator because it's 'just some kid' who's clearly in over their head. Most of it's concern, but I think some small amount would be bruised pride - how could some kid be better at killing than a trained soldier?

Aoi would be heartbroken at the revelation that their new ally is a child soldier - how could anyone let that happen to them? How sick do you have to be to make children kill whoever the government pointed at with techno-organic corpses?

And Quincy would definitely be fucked up in the head for a few days after he figures it out - that could open up some opportunities for more characterization given his soft spot for kids. Would he try to keep up his aloof act, like he does with the Drifter, or immediately discard it to try and comfort a child that has already made peace with their ridiculous capacity for murder?

Amir might do something similar to Arthur, but more patronizing than hostile - he means well, but this is a kid. If Amir himself feels out of his depth in the current situation and he's an adult, then surely a child would feel even worse than he does about killing a person.

I think Lettie would be the most chill of the original Hex, though. She's jaded enough that she'd be concerned, but would probably decide that it's not really any of her business - especially considering just how talented the Operator is at mass homicide.

Velimir and Minerva could also be really interesting. On the one hand, they could see little bits of Rusalka in the Operator, but that could also lead to coddling or 'replacement goldfish'-like behavior not unlike how I imagine Amir's reaction would have been.

Flare would have been the first to know. One wayward comment from Lizzie calling the Operator demon-child or something of the like, and they'd have put it together pretty quickly after that.

Kaya would just be glad there's someone else who understands being underestimated by older people just because they're younger.

[mollysunder]

I have a problem with the idea of a Jinx redemption arc. It's not that I have any issue with the fact that Jinx will be viewed as a hero to the people of Zaun. It's pretty obvious Jinx would be admired, she did a thing the people of Zaun wanted en masse for a long time. The thing about Jinx being the savior of Zaun is that it isn't really a redemption arc, because that's still just Jinx being militantly opposed to Piltover, a thing she always has been.

My problem is that the insistence that Jinx NEEDS to have a redemption arc takes away from the larger complexity of Arcane's worldbuilding. What does Jinx have to apologize for in order to be redeemed? Why is there so much emphasis on Jinx's character specifically to rectify her wrongs? And the way the fandom often defines Jinx's wrongdoings centers around a vague discomfort in her acts of violence and general instability.

What does it look like for Jinx to be "good", when the actions of many well-intentioned characters that the audience has an easier time being morally-aligned with either generates very little benefit or actual harm? No one in the cast sans Jinx and Silco have taken the material steps (as controversial as they may be) to deal with the problem that is Piltover, and Piltover has always been THE problem for Zaun.

The concept of a redemption arc for Jinx is so backwards because it asks Jinx as an individual to do "better" when it should be demanded of Piltover instead. How do you live to a standard that makes you morally good when the environment around you necessitates violence as it's own form of capital?

Sidenote: This all leads to the one real worry I have about Jinx and Ekko's inevitable partnership. Ekko is the character the showrunners treat as a guiding light in Zaun, which unfortunately makes Ekko an agent of the showrunners' biases. Case in point, Ekko's friendship with Heimerdinger, the architect of Zaun's despair.

If Jinx and Ekko team up, there's a chance she'd up end up working with Heimerdinger too. And it's like, "C'mon, really????"

[s0fter-sin]

how canon do we think warzone is? characterisation things like the takedowns and voice lines?

obviously the takedowns are flashy as hell, that's the point, but things like ghost's "cheers ya slag" and "done and dusted" paint him as so much more arrogant than the campaign suggests

but he is arrogant ("i've seen better" "who?" "me") and we never see him work solo except for the opening scene in mw2 where he chooses to remain danger close to a missile (either just bc or bc he wanted to ensure the kill) so who's to say he doesn't act like that on his own? you even see a hint of it in the camera mission when he shows off to soap and jumps off the building to land on the shadow; what is that if not an arrogant, flashy takedown?

if he's happy to do that in the middle of a stealth mission what else would he do just bc he can?

we know warzone is canon in some respects like the seasonal cutscenes (ala alex's resurrection and "i wasn't in that tank") so at least those are canon but what about everything in between? do specgru and kortac exist in canon? is the 141 part of some greater allied team? (which begs the question why do they never try to contact them when the world is literally on the brink but that’s a very meta, “why didn’t anyone call the avengers in their solo movie?” level of nitpick and we don’t do that here, serious nitpicks only)

do we consider them in character? or is it technically an au? is warzone even made by the same team? would characterisation mean anything to them beyond “does it make the character sound cool?”

even zombies, soap takes on a lot more of a leadership role than we see in the campaign, do we think that's how he acts when he's not with the 141? bc that's a significant shift to go from a leader to a clear subordinate without any chafing or annoyance at getting dropped down the pecking order

then you take skins into account; things like ghost's senpai skin is obviously an au but if he gets new takedowns with it (i haven't played and don't know how it works Imao) do we think main ghost still has that skill set? or is it possible for him to learn it? would he want to?

i think the campaigns are set in stone canon but even that characterisation can be touch and go considering how dirty they did price in mw3 and even how mellow he was in mw2 compared to mw19 and just... everything about the final mw3 mission (and mw3 in general, even shepherd being in the helo when they detain makarov in verdansk is ooc as hell and only exists to serve the narrative)

(characterisation in this aspect is difficult to pin down bc it's hard to tell how much is them writing the character of soap, the character of ghost, and how much is them just writing generic military man 1 and generic military man 2; there's some personality and growth but we have to admit it's thin and subtextual at best. how much of soap's behaviour is bc that's how they wanted soap specifically to react and how much is it bc that's how a military guy would react? (things like being angry about releasing hassan when graves reacts the same way))

so if canon isn't even consistent, can we even trust warzone's characterisation?

(but that's a whole seperate gripe let's stay on track Imao)

do we think it's canon? or is it just battleworld where they can act however the devs want so we spend money on it?

[trek-tracks]

This is just the end of Operation: Annihilate!

[emblemxeno]

I think the thing that really bugs me when people talk about "3H is so much better than Fates in terms of grey morality"... is that it only focuses on a very specific subset of greyness as a whole. When you actually take a step back from the perspective the game shows you, it's actually not morally complex in the slightest, especially compared to Fates.

For Fódlan, you're introduced to a fundamentally broken system that thrives off of eugenicist breeding, abuse, tyranny, technological stagnation, religious dogma, theocracy and experimentation that saw a young girl watch her fellow test subjects almost all die having Crests implanted into them just to create a superhuman. Said theocracy is staved by a consummate liar who's basically "Corrin, but gone wrong and a terrible human being" with an inability to let go of severe mommy issues or the ability to let go of her hatred and genocide denialism, intentionally keeping up a lie to make the most of it. Said subject leader ended up wanting to cast down the oppressive system to make one of "merit," but becomes an imperialistic, authoritarian revanchist who stages a war of total conquest to enforce that order, and in her ending, doesn't even fully dismantle the titles of nobility outright. Dimitri was genuinely a decent person before the massacre that killed most of his family and almost everyone he loved, causing him to go under severe psychosis that, when unraveled, causes him to turn into a bloodlusted maniacal tyrant who's more in line with Ashnard from FE9 than the typical "good boy lord" archetype since Marth. The least horrible of the bunch is a neoliberal schemer who sides with the strongest side (in VW it's the Church, in GW it's against the church) who can and does show a willingness to drop his interests like a hot potato when it suits him and openly intended to have Almyra invade Fódlan to establish the continent as his own suzerain state. And each of them, if not held back by the sheer divine grace of Byleth's mute ass, ends up committing tons of atrocities in the opposition to manipulate the audience into thinking they chose the "right" side. Hell, even in YOUR route it's strongly implied you're doing the things in the other routes and the story just doesn't want you to consider it because you're the good guy from your POV.

They're all awful and war criminals, and no matter what people say, that isn't moral greyness or moral complexity. Having a story where there isn't a clearly-defined sense of right and wrong, good and bad, to define morally grey conflict as a whole leads to a story where they're all horribly awful if the story isn't smart enough to recognize it doesn't fully absolve them as a person for your actions nor does it dehumanize them. People set a 0-100 scale that's never in the middle assuming a war criminal is either a goodest boy who did no wrong or a violent monster who needs to be put down and not made excuses for it, when the truth is that people are far more complicated than they seem on the wholesale. 3H doesn't do this, it wants you to think your side is always the good guys and the enemy side is sympathetic but still the bad guys. And it does this to avoid pushing forward the truth that you're genuinely no better and that the story is openly feeding you an extremely impressionistic lie of events. This is where any moral greyness falls apart, as without any kind of acknowledgement of your side's failings in a morally grey conflict, there is no hope of making a story that's actually morally grey. You created "hero defeats woobie villain" type story-writing, just slapped a coat of paint calling it morally grey when it isn't.

To give a contrast, Fates goes out of its way to avoid ignoring the actions and consequences of Corrin's choices. All of the routes have players make choices that cause a severe lapse of judgement that leads to bloodshed on both sides and innocent people on both sides dying. On Birthright, you're intentionally invoked ludonarrative dissonance by Corrin in that route being loud and aggressive of killing Garon and not questioning the "good kingdom vs. evil empire" conflict... with not only Corrin not even trying to stymie the bloodshed, but the abundance of route maps and killing waves upon waves of enemies influences that bloodshed and is meant to make players question their actions even as they kill recruitable, named soldiers on the other side. Even Ryoma, by openly lying to Corrin about not about being blood related, is more morally complex because he did so in order to keep Corrin and his family together and because it's essential data, nevermind that Ryoma is strongly implied to know Nohr is starving and just... do nothing about it, feigning ignorance with Silas's explanation in Birthright Chapter 23. Even as far as Corrin being a genuinely good person, they still kill thousands in-story and they don't really care about who lives and who dies as long as it's not their Nohrian siblings, and this leads to Xander accidentally killing Elise and then committing suicide by cop. All while Corrin teaches Ryoma to change as a better person.

Conquest is even more morally complex and grey; Corrin goes back to Nohr with the inability to betray the only family they've ever known and try to end this madness internally, before realizing the privilege they commanded as a Nohrian royal and tried to sabotage the Nohrian war effort and work in any kind of change. He succeeded in ensuring no casualties in small skirmishes, but he failed miserably trying to ensure no deaths in Cheve as it suddenly made them realize the rot is far too institutional for them to fully reform; Garon is a flesh-puppet piloted by Anankos with no regard for anything but destroying both kingdoms, his two trusted men are evil, and the Nohrian royals are deep in denial their father who was once loving and kind has become rotten and abusive and caused so much trauma they don't want to even acknowledge he's been gone for so long. It's a frightening realistic depiction of an abusive household with how the Nohrian royals self-rationalize their control over a fundamentally fucked-up situation, and Corrin begins to see that when Azura reveals Garon's true form. Knowing that the Yato as is isn't strong enough to pierce Garon's blessing from the Rainbow Sage and actually defeat them (which is strongly implied if not all-but-confirmed to operate similarly to Ashnard and BK's blessings in FE9), they need to show Garon's true form to the army... so they intentionally and knowingly abet the genocidal invasion of Hoshido, needing to sacrifice his ideals to save as many people as he can in the least horrible, fucked-up way possible. Along the way while they save a few thousands die in the invasion and Corrin ends up seriously mentally breaking up along the way as he's forced to nearly kill his two brothers and become demonized by the nation he's putting to the sword for the greater good, as he's forced to keep up the lie of a heartless invader until it just... becomes too much. And this is the route people have the most issues with, despite being the route that is so fucking complex that it gives everyone the moral sympathy needed to be empathized with, while not excusing their actions.

What Fates does exceedingly well that 3H doesn't is that it recognizes that the characters' choices are their own actions, and expects readers to pay attention to dialogue to connect fundamental revelations of the plot. It doesn't need to make its characters morally hazy-feely or war criminals with fundamentally unsympathetic traits to make them morally complex, it does this by having the fundamental concept behind Fates is two forces of good people being trapped in a fundamentally violent and horrible war that threatens to tear the continent apart in the process. And Fates does that so exceptionally well by having actual moral complexity to the characters that merits reasons to go down each of the routes while not being so non-committal to calling out injustice or bad actions in the story that it completely destroys any point it has. With Fates, I get the feeling of two families and armies of good people trapped in a war that's engineered by a broken god wanting to destroy the world and both kingdoms. With 3H, I get the feeling many people in Syria felt about each of the factions being staffed with war criminals, rapists and mass-murderers. I can sympathize with all sides of Fates because it recognizes their actions as they are while not diluting their complexity as characters. I cannot sympathize with 3H's lords because they are all so solely-defined by their end slates that no amount of blood, violence or suffering will ever be enough to end the war and them crossing lines even Ryoma would never, ever do. Ryoma, as in the guy who runs basically Fates's equivalent of the Ninja CIA with all the ugliness it implies. Even he wouldn't do what Edlegard, Rhea and Dimitri stoop to in their oppositional and player routes, and while the story humanizes Ryoma, it just expects us to love 3H's blorbos so much we just begin making jokes about how war crimes are "expected" of the series and we should still forgive them because... the story presents it better?

It's a major reason the shitting on Fates's story while lofting 3H as the better one irritates me so much; Fates had an actual writer who was committed to the greater narrative and nuances of the characters that got botched in the implementation of the JP script (which was why IF was even more panned there than Fates was here, which has regular appreciators outside of hardcore FE fans) and got fixed in the localization (despite its flaws), while 3H expects people to just believe they're the good guys without actually thinking about what their actions entails or making consequences stick. And I think it's most infuriating because the reason why people got so weird about Fates, especially Conquest, is because it was so willing to make the player feel uncomfortable with their actions and provoke intentional dissonance in their actions of being rewarded for the right inputs as a Good Gamer™ versus the very visible suffering it causes, and it not saying to the camera "And That's Terrible" and expecting it to be evident within the context and subtext of the work. For many people, it wasn't, and gave such a bad first impression regardless of the sheer cohesive validity of the work that they just wrote it off and dismissed an amazing story as too little value to actually analyze. Meanwhile, 3H's logos, ethos and pathos follow-through sucked ass, but people forgave it because of the lore boner people had and because, when you break it down, 3H is no different than the "good guy vs. evil empire" stories the fandom derides, it just does so in a way that makes those your route deems "evil" sympathetic even when they really aren't. It was so telling that when FE fans said "We want grey morality!" what they really meant was "We want to be morally, objectively correct and rewarded for being a Good Gamer™ while the enemy army has a sob story that makes them sympathetic while still morally, objectively wrong!". In hindsight, it's not hard to see why, Arvis, Lyon and BK are the series's most popular villains, but it's not good writing to apply that to a story about war criminals while thinking sob stories serve as a sufficient excuse to unconscionable atrocities, because FE fans don't want to feel responsible for their actions. They're literally the kind of people Spec Ops: The Line critiques about the typical military FPS dudebro wanting to feel like a hero for being a war criminal, only implied to an intelligence ego-driven bunch of virgin nerds who cannot agree on basic fucking canon details.

...this was a really long ask, so I'll TL;DR it with "FE fans are bad at media analysis and really should stop calling 3H better written than Fates when 3H refuses to actually analyze its own context while Fates does so extensively in giving each of the cast initiative, including for their own fuck-ups."

While I will push back a little against some of the assertions regarding Rhea and Claude (and also Dimitri somewhat) given their circumstances of being the ones on the defense in 3H, I vehemently agree with your assessment, and that's why 3H in general falls flat for me in its storytelling.

Fates, as you say, has intentional dissonance that makes you question your actions when provided with more information the further you get into the game. 3H's dissonance just reads very unintentional.

Edelgard's entire route is obvious low hanging fruit, especially the scene where she executes Dimitri, accusing him of "being obsessed with her" when she's invading his country for no fucking reason other than wanting to enforce her will on independent countries. Instead of going to therapy, she decided to kill a bunch of people, she's nuts and will never not be a shit person.

But to your point, there are other lines in 3H that read similarly ridiculous, fanning the dissonance.

Edelgard and Claude's lines to Kostas in chapter 2 about "being noble and commoner isn't different and you don't have the right to kill actually", and they both sound like immature fuckwads. Claude's consistent push to pry information out of people is insensitive at best, and borders on invasion of privacy. Claude constantly both sides-ing the church and Edelgard, and that's not even going into the shit he pulls in Hopes. Dimitri both sides-ing the dynamic of nobles getting rid of their successors for not having crests. Dimitri constantly trying to find the best in Edelgard after he begins his recovery, to the point where an unbelieveable parley scene occurs, like give me a break. Rhea is never able to confront her issues and mistakes on screen unless she's dying or being romanced by Byleth. Sylvain's "battle of ideals" line in Azure Moon, Dorothea being sad over Ferdie in AM or VW despite him being kind of a coward in that he doesn't have the stones to bite back at Edelgard, Mercedes also has a line about Ferdinand, in general just the entire spiel that side characters make about fighting old friends because "there's no choice."

Does this cast have any self awareness or agency, or not? That's why I rail against Byleth's presence in the plot so much, because he's treated as the end all be all of what is right/moral/correct. Sure, characters can feel bad about what they're doing, but because Byleth (i.e. the player) is there, they must be on the right path in the end. And everyone has to be sypmathetic when you're against them because there has to be room for Byleth (i.e. the player) to have enough reason to join them in another route, otherwise the multi route structure doesn't make sense.

In concept it's already a story structure that warps itself around what makes the player insert feel most good, but in execution it's somehow even worse. And that's because all of it is done in dialogue, many lines of which I've already mentioned. You're not supposed to think about the material reality of the shitty things these characters do and say, because the priority is that they can tug at your heart enough for you to excuse them/fix them/justify them.

Claude is ultimately not a bad person as a whole, but the game really wants you to not consider how feckless and fickle he can be when faced with bad odds, especially when he kind of effectively abandons an entire country that he's supposed to be leading whenever Byleth's not supporting him. Rhea and Dimitri are snug fit into either "crazed opposition that must be taken care of" or "person project that You need to get a handle on", both interpretations taking agency away from making the player seem like a bad person or going in the opposite direction by making the player the ONLY person who's able to save them from themselves. And Edelgard is the queen of never being held to account the damage that she does, always skirting responsibility in-game and in the fandom because "she just did what she felt she had to," "sometimes change takes sacrifice and horrible choices," or "she just wanted to WALK with you, sensei!" All in an attempt to get you to not care what you do when siding with her, and to make you feel bad for her when you don't side with her.

The player must never feel bad about the objectively bad things they do, and must always feel correct and justified in the things they feel are correct. That's the 3H M.O. When you recognize that the people you side with are kinda shitty no matter the route, it's not because the writers wanted you to, it's because you put the time in the think about it long enough. The game wanted you to feel bad about the war because "we used to be FRIENDS", not because of the terrible things you do in the war in the first place, as if the methods and machinations aren't a significant part of why warfare fucking sucks.

And as you say, and I mostly agree on, is the Fates M.O. is not shying away from the negative impacts that Corrin's choice had. In Birthright, Corrin's close Nohrian allies/siblings die because of the choice he made, because siding with Hoshido had a ripple effect on how those near and dear to him were treated by Garon. Another part of Birthright's narrative is the Hoshidan cast having to get used to Corrin just being himself, and trusting that a Nohrian isn't who they believe them to be. Exposing Ryoma's ignorance and showing that his arrogant juggernaut plans aren't gonna cut it when it comes to establishing a lasting peace, is critical in showing that, yeah, mindlessly fighting Nohr doesn't fix the root problems. It intentionally pulls the rug under the player by going "yeah your side kind of fucking sucks for charging at Nohr all this time, when these are people with dreams, loved ones and livelihoods."

Conquest puts a twist on this, by having Corrin be relatively successful in some areas when it comes to changing perceptions towards Nohr, helping people gain autonomy from a brutal regime, and actively undermining the horrible things that war has its soldiers do. The rug pull is then done during chapter 13, and again after the Sakura map, where Corrin is smacked with the reality that sometimes you fucking fail at what you're trying to do in story, despite the player succeeding in gameplay. The player representative doesn't have complete control nor is he treated with kid gloves in Fates when faced with the ugliness from his side and the opposition.

And what's greatest about it, is that it's showing you, rather than employing a missable dialogue in a monastery about how sad it is to fight against former classmates. Dude, I know it's sad, is that really all you can say? The message begins to dull when it's bashed over your head too much, and especially when there's no meaningful impact in story, all because there can't be because Byleth (the player) has to be accounted for as the ultimate arbiter of who joins him or not. You can't avoid feeling shitty about Scarlet, like you can with Ferdie. You can try your best trying to get around the retainers in Fates when you fight them, but they still have crushing death lines because the story is written to accommodate the fact that you're killing people who aren't evil at their core. 3H has to make sure you can avoid that before a war even starts. Flora and Ryoma's suicides, Xander's suicide-by-cop, Takumi's descent, the fates of the Kitsune and Wolfskin who were caught in bad circumstances (something that, despite claims of poor writing, happens all the fucking time and is another shitty thing about war that more need to recognize); the topics of isolationism, war profiteering, subterfuge and treason, spy networks and thievery, the ethics of bystanderism, FUCKING CIVILIAN CASUALTIES.

That last one-alongside the general idea of trying to win a war with as little bloodshed as possible-is one of the prime driving forces of an ENTIRE ROUTE in Fates, and is still pretty prevalent for Corrin's beliefs in the other two. In 3H? Barely a footnote in all honesty, and more so an extension of how other characters are perceived. Edelgard forcing civilians to stay when Enbarr is under siege? Claude says "it takes some resolve, I gotta hand it to her." Remire being destroyed and the Empire doing fuck all? Uhhh, look over there, they got taken in by Rhea, don't worry about it. What about the effects of the Alliance being dismantled and given to the Empire, Kingdom or the church? Or showing more of the people in the monastery town that face the most danger from the Imperial invasion or the thieves after the timeskip? None of this is treated as the horrific circumstance it is, so it ends up as fridge horror you think about at 2 a.m.

Thinking about how the war affects the common people and civilians isn't the main priority in any of 3H's routes as far as I can remember, since it's just lumped in with the vague "too much bloodshed, doesn't war suck" aesop. We never dive into the specifics of why war sucks in 3H because doing that has the potential for the player to materially feel bad about what they're doing, so instead we always have a cushion to assuage our feelings in by being reminded that Byleth (the player) is the pinnacle of good and always knows the right thing to do in the end. Which is shallow, vapid, and utterly spineless in a simulation game series about war.

A lot of this is fueled by my anti-3H though, so I'm very willing to take corrections on things I flat out get wrong, I haven't played that game to completion in like a over a year, so the details are finally getting hazy.

[wackywatchdotcom]

I've found it interesting that both Jax and Ragatha are essentially two sides of the same coin. How they mask their true feelings and interact with others is always some kind of front.

However, they both seem to have tried to reach out to Pomni in a way they hadn't with the others (Jax after Pomni spent an adventure with Kinger, his attempt at reaching out at Spudsy's) (Ragatha pretty much all of episode two etc)

I am wondering that, since she is new, they are trying, in their own way, to get validation from the new person without realizing it yet.

i agree so so much!!!! jax and ragatha feel like theyre very specifically associated with one another writing wise VERY deliberately. the theme song alone separates the characters into chunks (gangle zooble and kinger. ragatha jax and kaufmo) that pair the two up, theyre constantly interacting, that they share two spotlight eps, and so on. almost all of the characters, imo, have some sort of narratively significant dynamic, but jax and ragatha is absolutely one that is given extra detail, which definitely highlights the idea that theyre VERY different but also VERY similar in an important way

jax is decidedly the most Mean of the cast, and ragathas the most Nice, put simply (bc that is subjective, but i think the opposite degrees of friendliness the two exhibit are pretty clear), but that in itself IS some sort of mask, with their masks getting partially dropped in ep 4- i dont think theyre fully dropped and i dont think it has to do with 'jax is secretly nice' or 'ragatha is secretly mean' so much as the episode highlights the idea that theres more context to why they act how they do, and that the two of them are both putting on some kind of performance, though the extent of that isnt so cut and dry i think

i think ive seen it described better by others than i could but i think its very much that they are what the other lacks, in the least healthy ways possible. id consider them foils, because a person could argue theyre far more similar than meets the eye (with the severity of their masks and that both display an at least partially disingenuous happiness) but i think that they still mirror each other strongly enough that its them being foils that actually highlights these similarities at all- everything they do is opposite from one another, even down to how they treat the npcs (jax enjoying the idea of causing them harm because theyre not real, it doesnt matter, he can do what he wants, vs ragatha whos as kind as possible to the npcs, the reason for which being unclear since she doesnt seem to view them as alive, but likely a need for approval, so she does what she wants, too), but it has a similar root cause for WHY they do these things, and how it impacts their personhood by slowly stripping them of themselves

the two absolutely seek approval so so hard. ragathas more blatant in it, stating directly that she wants jax to like her even if she hates him- that she doesnt think pomni likes her (the idea of which causing her distress). she needs people to like her so bad. theres a lot of possible reasons for this but frankly it really seems to stem from her placing her own self worth on the care of others. it distresses her deeply when she thinks someone doesnt like her. on the topic of the npc thing it DOES seem like its some attempt at being cared about, even in an absurd situation. ive discussed it before, but it reads like fawning, HARD, particularly when shes around kaufmo- it makes no sense for her to try to appeal to his emotions, to apologize to him and try to convince him of something that would make him less upset, even if its not true, when she KNOWS you cannot really reason with abstracted players

it reads more like instinct, then, that others need to like her and shell do anything even if its putting on a face in order to maintain that. its not healthy and reads as insincere to others at worst, and makes it hard for others to know whats real with her- but she seems to genuinely care. its just that once you base your entire identity socially on others liking you, or being liked by as many people as possible, the line between you and the fake, palatable version of yourself becomes blurred to the point of hardly being visible. it makes it hard to maintain that approval longterm, because it damages trust and damages her own sense of identity, which runs the risk of making an awful gradually deteriorating loop of her trying HARDER to appeal to people and putting people off MORE in the process

jax doesnt seem to care so much, sort of. hes a little confusing to break down bc he is deeply contradictory (not in a poorly written way, hes just quite fucked up). he likes to do what he likes to do. he likes to do things he finds funny. but ive mentioned it before, that i dont think he hates them. theyre entertaining and the fact that he keeps his face up around them implies that he does care what they think of him. during the evaluation, he says 'no one can see this, right?' hes the most emotionally repressed person alive as said by gooseworx herself, but this is a performance for himself and highlights that he assumes others have the same expectations of him, too. he cant be uncool, but WHY does he care if the others thinks he is? if he truly didnt care about the others opinion of him, hed just... never pretend. how can someone so obsessed with doing anything that HE finds fun regardless of others opinions of him STILL give a shit what anyone thinks? (is it because he wants the appearance of having it together? but then, thats dictated by others view of him, not the other way around)

i see it interpretted that his shittiness is him lashing out at people, which i think is true somewhat but not quite in the typical way. i dont think hes unhappy and snapping at people because of it. i dont think the circus made him an asshole, so much that i feel like he was already a bit unpleasant to others, but with no true consequences, and being deeply unhappy made him start leaning on being MORE of a dick. hes unhappy, so hes going to BE happy, and if that means throwing someone of a truck for laughs or pushing people around or dropping them in deep fryers so be it. its not real anyway. its a desperate desire for joy at the expense of others. but this is destroying any semblance of companionship he could have, and given that i think hes the MOST social of the cast, constantly talking to people and joining things, i think this has worn at him in its own way

(both jax and ragatha seem to had deeply adapted to the circus but in cartoonish ways- ragatha treats it all like its real for comfort. jax treats it all like its fake but engages in the cartoon bullshit it all has to offer)

thinking on it, what with how pomni assures gummigoo and what kinger tells pomni, theres probably something to be said about the fact that, of anything, the only real thing IN the circus is how people feel about one another. when everything around you is fake, the only real things are other people and your interactions with them. ragatha and jax both seem keen on participating in distractions (jax avoids participating actively in the pilot but he DOES suggest the adventure, and seems to have a lot of fun participating in ep 2- though its in his own 'everything should go my way and if it doesnt ill mope about it' way. ragatha outright speaks positively about them as a way to keep the players minds 'healthy and stimulated' and seems to see them as a genuine attempt on caines part to keep everyone sane. theres something to be said about the stupid sauce too probably) and in putting on their faces to cope

but a new player doesnt have all these fake concepts ingrained in them yet, and pomni as she is is a deeply blunt person on top of that. she acts often on instinct but she also speaks her mind openly (really, shes who jax WANTS to be... sort of. if that makes sense). of anyone in the circus, she IS the most 'real' and how she treats people is genuine, and it makes me wonder if jax and ragathas interest in her isnt JUST a desire for companionship bc of the inherent loneliness and isolation of the circus and how that wears on a human, but further, a desire for something truly real in their lives; a genuine connection with a person who is utterly sincere. something real, despite it all

[communistkenobi]

It’s so funny reading any overview of American economics scholarship because all of them are like “yeah all their base assumptions are wrong and none of what they describe about the economy or labour market is true”

[lighthouse-guardian]

Alanna's devices give 100 def ignore passively and 270 with s2 (with module). sounds pretty solid, right? so you'd assume that perhaps the skill has an unnecessarily long cycle as is custom for 5 star limited duration device carrying artificer- it's a 15 s duration for a 20 sp cost. 35 s device regeneration. in the very same universe where Windflit was given 50 sp for the same 15 seconds, 1 (one) device gain, and a smaller talent multiplier. although Alanna still does share one flaw with him that is an inability to refresh devices with s1, even that is somewhat improved by the doubled device duration. okay there is more nuance to this such as own damage increase, stackability, and overall buff strength, but cmon. better device regen cycle is literally everything Windflit ever needed. luckily the two of them fill very different niches, otherwise the powercreep (cyclecreep?) would be downright insulting.

anyway can't wait to turn my fighter guards and marksman snipers and other big aspd small atk fellas into killing machines

[lakeinstillness]

one of the strong points of marble hornets which has helped hold it up over the years is that they never name the operator as such. it lends to the name not feeling cheesy or out of place when we only see it in code, supporting the mystery of it.

[maybe-boys-do-love]

People are still truly out here asking their fiction to act as models for real life instead of letting them be symbolic. Like, yes, we can def add to our realistic representations of people's lived experiences of poverty and queerness, but maybe the campy ghost show isn't the best example to ignite your criticisms about realism???

[ficandkaboodle]

So are we ever going to talk about the trauma Sister Imperator likely bottled up for years? It’s just. I don’t think you can experience a complicated and unstable relationship; fall pregnant by that person; have that person you thought you shared something with cheat on you; then disappear for months to give birth to his twins he never knew about; promptly give those pieces of you up and only establish contact through the form of work; continue working alongside your ex and his confirmed children while running an organization; and not come out at least a bit…off.

Sister probably felt the most happiness and peace she’d felt in years during the time spent between Cardi’s coronation and her death. Because only in that frame did she have her son back and she and her ex were at an understanding.

[daily-ron-fnf]

Day 382

In case you haven't been aware all this time btw

[randomthefox]

[necropathys]

Pause. Imagine ur apple poly hell, but it's Nightcest. Swan, Nm, Passive. it'll be obviously more wholesome. A penny for your thoughts 😘.

Hey, you already know I’m crazy about this dynamic. It’s bold to assume it’ll be more wholesome—everything depends on how Nightmare is depicted, right?

Passive might come across as naïve, but he’s still cunning enough to use manipulation when it suits him. Swan shares that trait but applies it more to keeping a low profile and avoiding conflict. Nightmare, of course, takes it all to a whole new level. Put them together, and you essentially have a snake’s den—a pit of vipers. Sure, they’d protect each other, but they’d also play mind games and might be downright ruthless about getting what they want.

I love the softness in their bond, but it’s the razor-sharp edges that really fascinate me. Each of them is like a shard of glass: Nightmare’s more like seaglass—seemingly weathered, but knowing exactly how to cut you where it hurts most.

Anyway, they should still kiss and read books. Nightmare and Swan share a smoke (while Passive grumbles about the smell). Swan, forever restless, can’t stand staying in one place. Meanwhile, Passive adores the castle but also wants to be outside constantly. Both of them are shy around Nightmare’s entourage, even if those folks have promised they’re safe to be around.

And yeah, they definitely bicker as much as the dreamcest poly does—if not more.

...and of course, there’s the whole angle of Nightmare and Swan slowly corrupting Passive.

[goldenspirits]

Marco and Polo TVGLOW are very... Queer coded, in a way that I cannot quite articulate. They just hit that "Hays Code Era Queer Coded Villain" spot in my brain, you know?