#penguin pain and prejudice

[deakwithit]

can yall send me asks about the penguin so i can infodump im begging u..

[livepoultryfreshkilled]

most arousing image in the world

[fantastic-nonsense]

Hi! I was looking to see if you know of many comics with Batman's villains at the lead!? (Besides Harley and Selina, who've had multiple series and are pretty easy to find). Other than the "Joker" Novel and Penguin: Pain and prejudice, i couldn't find any. Any good suggestions for Joker, Ivy, Two-Face, or any other villian from the Batman universe?

the tldr is that Ivy has several, Two-Face has a handful, the al Ghuls have a couple, and everyone else has had a couple of single issues starring them.

In general, the Batman Arkham series functions as a Batman Rogues Gallery "Greatest Hits" collection. While most of the stories collected in these trades don't feature the rogues as a protagonist, they all explore the characters and their backstories/motivations and feature them in a starring role!

On principle, I generally refuse to recommend Joker comics. Clown man has enough stuff starring him and they're generally easy enough to find without me promoting him more than he already is. Also, to be honest with you I occasionally go out of my way to avoid stuff starring him because he's frankly bored me ever since DC decided to emphasize him as a psychopathic serial killer instead of a funny villain with a clown gimmick.

However, The Joker's Five-Way Revenge (Batman vol. 1 #251) is a fun read, Joker: The Man Who Laughs and Joker's Last Laugh are both good, and Batman: The War of Jokes and Riddles is decent as well. Another fun one that's a little out of the box is Superman: Emperor Joker.

Other than that...I generally recommend the following for Ivy:

Batman Arkham: Poison Ivy (basically an 'Ivy Greatest Hits' collection)

Batman: Poison Ivy (1997)

No Man's Land (yes, it's long. No, Ivy's not a 'lead'. yes, it's also ground zero for Ivy's redemption arc and features her in a major role)

Gotham City Sirens (2009)

Swamp Thing by Scott Snyder (specifically Vol. 2, Family Tree, and Vol. 3, Rotworld: The Green Kingdom)

Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death (2016)

Poison Ivy (2021) by G. Willow Wilson (curently ongoing)

Ivy also pops up in Ram V's Catwoman (2018) run and pretty consistently in Harley's solo books after 2015.

For Two-Face (my beloved), read Batman: The Long Halloween and Batman: Dark Victory (which function as a double feature). Then read any of the following:

Batman: Faces (Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #28-30)

Batman: Two-Face (1995)

Batman Annual #14: "Eye of the Beholder"

Gotham Central, which has an extended Harvey-Renee Montoya subplot

Batman/Two-Face: "Crime and Punishment"

Batman/Two-Face: Face the Face (2006)

Two-Face: Year One (2008)

Batman and Robin (2011) 23.1: Two-Face

Detective Comics #1020-1022: “The Ugly Heart”

Two-Face: One Bad Day

And for a couple of stories that aren't Harvey-focused but feature him as a prominent antagonist...read Robin: Year One, A Lonely Place of Dying, and Batman: Prodigal.

For the al Ghuls, apart from the Batman Arkham collections you're primarily looking for Tales of the Demon, the Demon Trilogy (Birth of the Demon, Bride of the Demon, Son of the Demon), Batman: The Chalice, and Batman Annual #26 (the prologue to Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul, which is also fun). Two of Damian's Robin solos (Robin: Son of Batman (2015) and Robin (2021)) also prominently feature Talia. There are...certainly other options, if you want to read about the al Ghuls, but they're rarely well characterized in those (except Talia's LexCorp CEO arc; all hail Talia's Lexcorp CEO arc).

Clayface (the Basil Karlo version) prominently featured as a protagonist in Tynion's Detective Comics Rebirth (2016) run.

Everyone else...apart from stories where they're the prominent antagonist, there were several Villain takeover issues during the period of Batman and Robin (2011) when Damian was dead, Year of the Villain had a few issues focused on the Batman Rogues, and the One Bad Day series focuses each issue on a different Bat Rogue.

There are plenty of other stories centered on various members of Batman's Rogues Gallery, but hopefully this gives you a solid starting place!

[mydarlingbat]

Penguin pain and prejudice #4 #1

[starlightshadowsworld]

The Red Knight part 5

Part 4

@8-29pm

@v-inari

@ninapiro

Jason yawns, blinking sleep from his eyes as he wakes up. To his suprise, he genuinely felt well rested.

Before he became Red Hood, before being submerged into the Lazarus pit. Even before his days as Robin, Jason rarely ever felt well rested.

Crime Alley never slept, so it was werid.

But a nice werid.

He got up, or at least he tried too. Looking down and finding himself sandwiched between a snoozing Dick and Damian.

Jason knew they had talked and everything last night but... He didn't think they would still be here.

To often in his life had he been let down.

Usually by his own family.

Be they blood or otherwise.

And yet, Dick was curled up by his side. Damian on the other.

What really got to Jason was that Pride and Prejudice was sitting on the bedside table.

A Robin bookmark sticking out of it.

Even when they eventually left to their own lives and duties. Their was something that kept them coming back.

It was too early to get emotional like this.

Jason somehow managed to wiggle himself out the cuddle pile without waking the others up.

Damian, much like a disgruntled kitten shuffled over to Dick who instantly hugged him close. Jason quickly grabbed his phone from the beside.

And took a quick photo of the duo.

They could kick his ass later if they'd like.

Now free, Jason dressed himself for the day and headed to his kitchen.

On his way, passing a snoozing Tim on the sofa, Barb sleeping in the spare bed and Cass and Steph squished on the sofa.

Jason smiled seeing them, moving quietly. They deserved the rest.

His smile faded when he saw a certain photograph.

Batman and Robin.

Bruce stood tall in his Batman suite. Beside him was Jason, dressed in his Robin costume. Arms folded and a smile on his face, he was rarely without one back than.

Being Robin was his favourite thing. As was being with Bruce.

"So how are we doing this, spontaneous?"

"Serious."

"Sexy?"

"Serious."

Jason had thought Bruce would have wanted a redo because his pose was anything but serious.

But than he looked at the photo and saw Bruce was smiling too.

That would never happen again... Because HE made his choice.

And than... The image of Bruce turned into him enraged.

His own anger flooded his veins as he recalled that day.

"Why? I'm not talking about killing Penguin or Scarecrow or Dent. I'm talking about him, just him. And doing it because...because he took me away from you."

A gun against Jokers head.

Pain exploding in his neck.

Looking at the man he loved like a father, save his murderer.

"Jason?"

A hand rested on his shoulder, a grounding weight.

"-it, in and out."

Air rushed back into his lungs and Jason became painfully aware he was in his safe house.

One hand gripping the table.

The other around his neck.

The photograph was on the ground.

The glass shattered.

"You with me?"

The green clouding his vision faded.

Jason looked up, face to face with Duke's concerned eyes.

He moved his hand from his neck like it had burned him.

Jason looked down, embarrassed.

He knew realistically that the others knew about his Pit episodes. Hell, Dick had witnessed one yesterday.

But it left him feeling vulnerable, exposed to the world with nothing to sheild him.

To protect him.

"Sorry, I didn't mean to wake you." Jason says feebly but Duke shakes his head with an easy smile.

"Nah your good, I'm on the day shift, was just about to make breakfast." His smiled turned sheepish.

"But I know how protective you are of your kitchen and didn't wanna mess anything up by accident."

The concern never left his eyes but Jason realised he was giving him an out.

That Duke wasn't going to badger him while he was still reeling.

Cooking was one of the few things that calmed him down, it was a hand being held out to him.

He took it.

"I'm not that bad."

Duke snorted "you're like a mini Alfred. I've seen his face when he found a fork in the wrong place. And I know your no better."

Jason let out a shaky laugh, he knew that was true. Dick had gotten a verbal lashing over coms when he same once.

How do you put the spoons in the knife draw?

"Alright, you got me. I should have enough for pancakes?" Jason asked, it was the only thing he could think of that was simple enough.

That he could handle right now.

Duke grinned "sounds good to me, lead the way mini Alfred." Jason huffed "call me that one more time and your pancakes will be cold."

"Gasp... You would not."

Jason hid a smile and walked to his kitchen, his legs felt like jelly beneath him but he was okay.

But Duke was with him, not overcrowding him but simply being there. Talking about some mission he'd done recently.

Grounding him.

He could do this.

[bloodymary83]

Pagan? Satanist? Clown!

I think the Joker might actually be pagan or a Satanist? Either way, He definitely worships Baphomet. Joker is a leader of a cult in France called “The Circus of Clowns” as seen in Europa.

In Penguin Pain and Prejudice #2 Joker is caught doing a strange ritual with a taxidermied goat (which is hilarious), in 1997 Batman 544-546 Joker is shown messing up a demon summoning ritual and reading the Necromicon.

The Joker did sell his soul to the demon Neron in 1995 “Underworld Unleashed” for a box of Cuban cigars. Oddly he also sold his soul previously in 1975 Joker #10 to the actual devil who was dressed like Elton John for some reason. In Suicide Squad one of the Joker’s thugs that breaks him out of Arkham is wearing a priest uniform with a Goat Head which is a representation of Baphomet.

In Batman #90-91 2020 the Joker meets the Designer (Who is supposedly the Devil) and reveals that he wants to become the Devil himself. In the background of his cell in a lot of comics he has pentagrams and devil graffiti on his walls. In Legends of the Dark Knight #163 Joker is shown sleeping with a stitched up devil plushie.

In Batman Confidential “Of Lovers and Madmen” the pre-Joker and his minions all wear red painted bull mask which is also a representation of Satan. In Arkham Asylum ASHOASE many references are made to the occult and paganism by the Joker and others. In one of “the Man Who Stopped Laughing”#5 in Joker’s side comic, Joker is shown reading a book bound in human flesh called “the Maleficium”, which is apparently DC’s version of the Necrocomicon (a fictional occult book by HP Lovecraft). In Batman Black Mirror the Joker talks about how Gotham means goat and, how Joker himself is the goat which once again makes references to Baphomet and, Joker thinking he himself is the devil.

I honestly want DC to build more on the fact Joker has a cult instead of just showing snippets, I would actually like to see a story based on Joker’s Cult. It would be interesting to see the inner works of a cult and how the followers got involved, instead of the 3 Jokers dreck they’re still trying to get people interested in. (We don’t want 3 Joker’s DC!! How many times do we have to tell you!! It’s been 2 series now!!)

[maxwell-grant]

Sooo... The Penguin: One Bad Day?

...Honestly?

Considering the genuinely abysmal precedent set by the prior two One Bad Day stories? I'm just glad this didn't push Penguin absurdly far into complete monster territory. I'm glad it didn't assassinate the character, like the other one that should go unnamed. I wasn't even gonna touch it until you dropped this ask. I kept reading the entire issue waiting for the other shoe to drop with some twist like, oh he's gonna kill all his associates in the end because he doesn't care for them or, oh he's gonna have some awful new detail added to his backstory like they did for Joker's Asylum or Pain and Prejudice but, no.

I did like a fair deal of how it depicted Oswald, I was rather shocked by it. It passes my "I can hear Paul Williams reading this" test and that's pretty damn high praise coming from. I did like spending some time with Penguin at his lowest and how this does the "Oswald claws his way to the top" set-up but without violence being his biggest asset, more so his ability to negotiate and manipulate and even beg his way into assembling just enough of a crew and just enough firepower to scrape by. I kinda liked Tiny Homeless Trash King Penguin as a concept (I figure Spamton fans who are also Penguin fans might get a kick out of this story).

I like that it establishes that Oswald's relation with his henchmen is that he thinks he treats them significantly less shitty ways than he actually does, which still makes him several tiers better than most other Gotham rogues even if not, great, and in the end he will in fact try to make amends. I like that it establishes Oswald's history with being lonely and ostracized as a reason why he treats his goons a little better and why he employs people that would be otherwise discarded, and this is ultimately why he wins (you can argue that this comic represents said people poorly and, you'd be right, but, it's a Batman comic, if you're in too deep in those, at some point you kinda have to settle for the less-abysmal depictions of mental illness / physical deformity / race / gender / etc when given such)

It didn't shy away from showing many of Oswald's character faults, but it also played straight the idea that, overall, he is indeed a better class of criminal and significantly better than your average mobster, if nothing else it also gets major points with me also for the lengths it went to avoid the misogynistic Penguin cliches others default to. It even goes so far as to state that Penguin played a significant hand at both ensuring Gotham's rogues had the tools necessary, as well as secretly kneecapping them so that the game between them and Batman would never escalate too far, to the extent that Penguin thinks of Batman as "a piece in his conglomerate". Honestly? I'm still not sure this is an idea that works, but I don't hate it? In fact it's kind of something I always wanted to see explored, even something I'd toyed with on my personal Batman or superhero-related ideas?

If nothing else, this does go someway towards explaining why Batman tolerates Penguin to the extent he does. Not because Penguin's good at looking legitimate or because he makes for good intel, but because Batman pretty much always has someone or something worse than Penguin to stop, and because wasting time with Penguin inevitably means turning his back on worse problems happening at Gotham (I feel like the Reeves film continuity is kinda heading in this direction as well). And Batman hates it, he hates that Oswald knows this, but this story also points out what happens when Penguin's removed from the picture to be inevitably replaced by some far worse scumbag with no interest in theater or balance. This idea wouldn't work for any other character in Batman's Rogues Gallery, except for Penguin. Granted, this also kinda means that Oswald's purposefully kneecapping himself but, at least it acknowledges this as part of the set-up required to make mob boss Penguin work.

Even the fact that Penguin resolves the battle by going full beast / Returns, I don't mind that much here, it's played for contrast of Penguin spending the entire issue powerless or being played as a gentleman (if a deluded, cutthroat criminal one) for most of the issue. Honestly? I like this as a display of monstrousness way more than "ruins your life for coughing within earshot", I'd have little to complain if Penguin tearing out the throats of mob bosses with his teeth was the lowest he'd be willing to go, in fact I think he should do that more often. I do like some savagery in him.

I mean, yeah, the whole reocurring animal thing, and it culminating with him thanking his former bully for instilling the idea on him that he's just "a little animal", has some whiff of that "the bullies get it right" awfulness from Frank Tieri's one-shot but, it's not going that far. There's some issues in this story and especially from a plotting perspective but, I'm not sure how much I liked this because it was a good Penguin story that utilized the character in an interesting way or even a good story in general, or how much I liked this because it wasn't as aggressively dogshit as I was expecting and how much better it was than so many other modern Penguin stories but, I'm pretty lenient on this, I liked most of it well enough.

I don't know how this relates to the current continuity that I'm not reading, and I don't care either, but between this, what little I've seen of other recent Penguin moments and the upcoming show, I'm feeling pretty good. It's kinda seeming like the character's getting some of his groove back. I'm pleasantly happy with it.

[distort-opia]

Are you on board with Joker wearing more sPaRkLy dresses? I would love to hear a possible unhinged rant about Joker outfit ideas

I think I might've given off the wrong impression as someone very passionate about Joker's outfits, so sadly I can't deliver a long unhinged rant on that. Sorry :(

It's more that I appreciate Joker's outfits from afar. My own fashion sense tends to skew... a lot more in Bruce's direction, aka dark and dramatic. Would not be able to wear the bright colors Joker does in a million years.

However! He should wear more sparkly dresses! Clearly he looks great in them:

-- Batman/Superman (2013) #8

-- Batman: The Dark Prince Charming

Also, lol. Does this one count? I mean technically... it's a skirt:

-- Penguin: Pain and Prejudice #2

I mean, truly, some glitter would make for great accessorizing.

[scaryscarecrows]

What are your favorite canon versions of Riddler and Penguin?

Caveat: I have not read many comics wherein they are the main (or a main) villain. I have read comics with a villain ensemble (The Long Halloween, for example), but not too many 'Penguin causes mayhem' or 'Riddler makes everyone hate him single-handedly'. So.

Penguin

Gotham. He's a stabby, determined little asshole and I don't care if it sounds bad, I want to be him. Nothing stops him. Respect.

Pain and Prejudice. I highly recommend this. It hurts, but still.

Batman Returns. Naturally.

The Batman. VERY much stoked for the HBO series, even though I'll probably view it later because I don't have HBO. Riddler 1. B:tAS. He's precious. He gets away with shit. He's a smooth, intelligent sonofabitch with killer suits. Nice. 2. Okay, so I have cursed him vigorously, but Arkhamverse Riddler got a rise out of me that few do. I would fight his voice actor in a parking lot. 3. Zero Year was an interesting take and an all-around fun ride. It and The Batman can share a slot for having similar takes on Eddie. 4. Gotham's Ed was a tragic slide into villainy. Don't bully your awkward coworkers, kids! Honorary Mentions WB's The Batman. Penguin looks like he'll bite you and Edward...I'm torn on his design, but his writing was solid. This whole show is a good one, though, with the bonus of having Batman vs. Dracula as its movie. Lego Batman: Family Matters. They tried to buy a private island, man, I was so pissed they got caught.

[alpacinosgf]

Hey, for the ask about Oz's mother... from what I remember, Oz talks about her pretty fondly in the comic's and I think any flashbacks show their relationship as pretty close. (Obviously, they could always do something different for the show).

His dad was an abusive dick though 😡 fuck that guy.

I'm using " Penguin: Pain and Prejudice" as a main reference here... but comics lore is pretty changeable, so...

BTW if you haven't read that one I highly recommend it. It's really good and I suspect they might take some inspiration from it for show, but who knows....🤷🏻‍♀️

OMG THATS SO GOOD!!

[cobblepotindustries]

(( I come back after weeks of silence, I talk about The Penguin #1, I leave. ))

(( It has it's issues, it's a Tom King comic, but getting a modern take on Oswald's character that isn't just "He's the worst person in the world" or my be-loathed "The Iceberg is all he is" is refreshing. He's absolutely not a good person, but this issue (so far) seems to take the point that it's Gotham that's made him into what he is. In Metropolis, he's a fully realized man, not a caricature.

I won't spoil the genuinely cute moments he gets being a normal human being, but God was it a nice break from the pathetic, petty character that Pain and Prejudice/Joker's Asylum Penguin shows in similar situations.

If you like Oswald, and the duality of his character, this one is a good read. I hope they continue with this level of quality, and don't muck up the ending. ))

[deakwithit]

cna someone talk to me about the penguin please. especially penguin pain and prejudice. i'd cry rlly hard but in a good way

[obscuremarvelmuses]

I have a Penguin mini-series called “Pain & Prejudice” somewhere. In it, a man commits a casual slight against Penguin, insulting him when he bumps into him on the street before, in horror, he realizes who it is and apologizes profusely. The Penguin laughs and tells him not to worry. But then oddly, the man finds himself fired at his job for embezzlement, his apartment burns down, his parents die in a very mysterious car crash, and a seemingly random person accosts his girlfriend on the street and injects her with something that doesn’t get specified but medicine hasn’t caught up to yet. All this goes to show just how cruel and petty the Penguin is, and just how much influence and power he has in Gotham. Penguin is portrayed as horrifically insecure and needing the love and approval, even if it must be bribed or forced, from all those around him, and punishing any deviation from that due to his trauma from bullying and abuse. But, he’s shown to be JUST as disproportionate in REWARDING genuine kindness shown to those he cares for as he is in punishing unkindness. For instance, when he sees the nurse who cared for his elderly mother is genuinely crying at his beloved mother’s death, he ensures she’s set for life. So his pettiness, ruthless and cruel as it is, also has equally generous aspects. Love that complexity!

[sebastianshaw]

I have a Penguin mini-series called “Pain & Prejudice” somewhere. In it, a man commits a casual slight against Penguin, insulting him when he bumps into him on the street before, in horror, he realizes who it is and apologizes profusely. The Penguin laughs and tells him not to worry. But then oddly, the man finds himself fired at his job for embezzlement, his apartment burns down, his parents die in a very mysterious car crash, and a seemingly random person accosts his girlfriend on the street and injects her with something that doesn’t get specified but medicine hasn’t caught up to yet. All this goes to show just how cruel and petty the Penguin is, and just how much influence and power he has in Gotham. And I was thinking, it’s stated pretty often (though really not shown well bc I think writers often don’t know HOW) that Shaw has far greater influence, that the Hellfire Club has this on a global scale, that Shaw in particular can reach “princes, presidents, and popes” And again, not often demonstrated because you can’t punch that away, but we’re told he has it and I don’t doubt that. I think the reason we don’t see stories like this from Shaw is simply that he isn’t that petty. Penguin is portrayed as horrifically insecure and needing the love and approval, even if it must be bribed or forced, from all those around him, and punishing any deviation from that due to his trauma from bullying and abuse. Shaw very fucking blatantly doesn’t give a shit, there are multiple instances where he’s just “yeah I’m fucking asshole what about it” One of the few good moments he got in the Krakoa era was in a N.ew M.utants issue by Ed B.risson where a cartel leader calls him a swear and Shaw’s response is simply “That I am.” Which is not to say Shaw is a pushover—perish the thought!---but that he’s learned that the only opinion and approval that matters is his own. I say “learned” because we do learn in the backstory with L’s death that this wasn’t always the case. He’s horrified to learn of Ned’s betrayal, despite having been warned by L and T.essa, and concludes verbally that he let his own need for acceptance blind him to the truth all around him. So, at this point in his life, he did care about the opinions of others—namely, the uber rich, amidst whose ranks he had just been accepted, which makes sense—and it cost him the most important person in his life. Between that and the fact he clearly became more and more of An Absolute Bastard Man since that, one who is TEXTUALLY stated to no longer let himself be vulnerable to others and “handled relationships like chess games” out of the expectation he will always be betrayed, it’s no wonder to me he would stop giving a fuck what anyone things. Which is a cool way to be, don’t get me wrong, wish I was like that, but also isn’t coming from a place any less traumatic than Oswald’s, it just goes the other way because of different circumstances. And the point of this rant isn’t “Shaw is Better than Penguin bc Shaw isn’t petty” it absolutely is not. I actually LOVE Pengy, that’s why I own that miniseries! It’s just, it is often DIFFICULT to a play a muse with the power and reach that Shaw has, and not use it to godmod a whole bunch of terrible shit happening to other people’s characters who piss him off (which a lot do, that is the personal mission of more than one muse I write with!) like the Penguin does to that dude. Because like. . .I don’t want to do that, firstly it’s bad RP etiquette and second it would limit the characters I could keep interacting with. But Shaw is an incredibly powerful guy who very much could make life miserable (or over) for like…honestly, almost anyone he wanted. So it helps that I can just go “well he actively doesn’t give enough of a shit, you’re not worth the time to him that it would take to make those arrangements” But I am 1000% sure he could. (also: in the spirit of fairness to Pengy, he’s shown to be JUST as disproportionate in REWARDING genuine kindness shown to him and those he cares for as he is in punishing unkindness. For instance, when he sees the nurse who cared for his elderly mother is genuinely crying at his beloved mother’s death, he ensures she’s set for life. So his pettiness, ruthless and cruel as it is, also has equally generous aspects. Love that complexity!)

[keynoute]

I needed to share with you this illustration of Oswald because he looks so cute 🥺

That's from : Penguin, pain and prejudice #1

[sarahreadstoomanycomics]

hi uuuuuh do u have any favorite riddler, penguin, mad hatter, or zsasz comics?:) i’m looking for recs i’m relatively new :D

Alright I will avoid bigger arcs for now since like Penguin I love his stories in No Man's Land but I can't go tell you to read literally the longest Batman arc of all time to start. Even if it is the quintessential Batman arc.

Riddler- Dark Knight, Dark City, Zero Year, Consulting Detective

Zsasz- Batman Shadow of the Bat 1-4, The Streets of Gotham

Penguin: Penguin: Pain and Prejudice, Batman Earth One #1, Snow and Ice (Alan Grant story he's unfortunately one of the many in the comic industry we have lost this year.

Mad Hatter-Batman: Madness, Detctive Comics 841, Detective Comics 573.