#pro problematic ships

[theweeklydiscourse]

No, actually. It is not “shaming Katara’s femininity” or her “maternal traits” to critique the ways in which her character was relegated to a the passive role of the Avatar’s grieving widow and largely ignored by the narrative post-ATLA. Oh my god, we are not “degrading” Katara by pointing out the sexist implications of how her character was handled and to suggest such a thing is just so…infuriating and very revealing of the underlying sexism in the fandom.

No thoughts, just people endlessly glorifying Katara’s maternal tendencies without bothering to question or investigate the adverse effects of her parentification. Apparently anyone who criticizes the writing of Katara’s character is just denigrating “traditional femininity” and THEY are the true misogynists! Not the male writers or viewers who consistently minimize Katara’s significance to the narrative and mock fans who ship her with anyone other than Aang.

Not at all, really we should just accept the conditions of the narrative uncritically and never question the biases of the creators. How dare we criticize them and point out the underlying sexism in their writing?

[familymeansnoonegetsleftbehind]

I just saw someone on TikTok joke about Nemlei being doxxed, saying she deserved it and “that’s what she gets for making The Coffin of Andy and Leyley” and I just… no matter what you think about problematic fictional content, how messed up do you have to be to think that someone (a real person) deserves such a thing?

[vagrantcallisto]

"This fanfic is disgusting!"

Bitch, nobody Clockwork Orange'd you into reading it.

[fandom-discussions-with-avery]

A guide to determine who are siblings and who are not on the example of TOH

Follow the instructions below and don't harass people for nothing

1. Do they have the same parents?

Yes? Congratulations, they are siblings! ✅

2. Do they have one same parent?

Yes? Cool, they're siblings! ✅

3. Is one of them adopted by another's parent(s) / Are both of them adopted into the same family?

Yes? No questions, they are siblings! ✅

4. Do they have the same parental figure who raised them / Do they call each other brother/sister?

Yes? Then... It's complicated. They're not siblings in the usual sense, but it's still really wierd to see them in a romantic way, even if they don't have any other problems (king x luz clearly does have other problems, don't get me wrong)

5. Is none of the above list suitable for characters in question?

I have some news for you, they are NOT siblings! ❌

You can headcanon them whatever you want, but it doesn't give you any rights to harass people who doesn't see them in the way you see!

[catgirl-catboy]

Types of problematic ships:

This is problematic in-canon, and is explicitly addressed as problematic in-canon by a character or narrator.

This is problematic in-canon, but it isn't directly called out. Characters still directly experience negative concequences as a result, but the author expects you to do the math.

There is evidence that this is problematic in-canon, but nothing bad ever comes of it. This could be because the author doesn't realize the implications, or simply doesn't want to go there.

The problematic subtext is there, but not everyone is looking for it or cares about it.

This ship COULD be read as problematic, but it could also be read as perfectly normal. It's ambiguous.

This would be horrible in-real life, but relationships of this nature frequently go unaddressed in canon, so it's very likely it wouldn't be seen as such in-universe.

A sequel came out, and retroactively made a ship problematic.

The author retroactively made something problematic on twitter.

Someone who isn't the author made something problematic on twitter.

The FANDOM decided they didn't like it.

This would be problematic in CANON, but we are playing a very different game than canon was, so who cares?

This wouldn't be problematic in CANON, but fuck you, we're going to talk about this realistically.

This is problematic, but due to the canonical setting, most relationships are. (picture the lack of female agency in historical fiction.) And it frustrates me that these are all considered the same amount of bad. Stop lumping things under "icky" and have an honest talk with how the subject-matter is portrayed. But you won't, because you have no media analysis skills, and make it everyone's problem.

[simplespacedust]

hey so i'm gonna talk about pro-shippers because i feel like none of you have critical thinking skills.

please, if you are going to read this, read to the end because there are multiple parts to my argument.

SOMETHING IMPORTANT: i don't think it is okay to doxx, harass, or send death threats to people on the internet! if you send death threats to people, you are awful! if you go out of your way to harass people when they tell you to leave them alone, you are awful! if someone says something you don't like, talk with them like a normal fucking person jesus christ! if you repeatedly harass a pro-shipper, you are not helping them get any better!

firstly, in terms of "problematic" stuff in mainstream media, most component people can recognize when a piece of media is commenting on something with the use of a relationship/something problematic as a metaphor. just because something exists on-screen doesn't necessarily mean the message of the media endorses it. this is why you never (hopefully) see anyone getting upset about murder in movies. the piece of media is not saying murder is good. it is using it to make a commentary/characterize someone/etc.

now that we have set that precedent, we can move on to pro-shipping in fandom spaces. pro-shipping in fandom spaces if often fundamentally different between than the more general category of just "relationships in media." in fandom spaces, the tendency when creating art, writing fics, posting headcannons, etc. is for the purpose of personal/audience enjoyment. this is why pro-shipping is more often problematic within fandoms. if a person did want to create/add to problematic ships for a purpose other than getting off to it, that would be a different story! thats fine!

unfortunately, however, many pro-shippers do not proship for the literary merit/symbolism/characterization etc. many of them do it because they find the idea of parent-child or sibling-sibling relationships attractive. this is where the problem is. they symbol itself is not the problem, its the message/purpose of the work/art/headcannon itself.

i hear a lot of people talking about how pro-shipping is often a coping mechanism for dealing with trauma a person has experienced. my response to that? KEEP IT TO YOURSELF AND GO TO THERAPY!!!! if you are having to resort to jacking off to fictional incest to cope, then clearly you need the help of a professional to work through your issues! if you cannot for whatever reason, still keep it to yourself!

it is well understood that people are influenced by the opinions of people around them/what they see and interact with. putting out bullshit on the internet that portrays problematic relationships as desirable can one, create a pedophile safe space, and two, unintentionally (or maybe even intentionally!) expose children to these types of relationships and make it seem normal in their brains, which could cause them to not speak up about it if something bad does actually happen to them! even if a person shouldn't be in a space, they are! it doesn't harm you to not post the porn you wrote of that one kid and his dad from south park. and that only talks about adult only spaces, i have seen a shit ton of pro-shippers on tiktok, a platform marketed towards minors.

ANOTHER SIDE NOTE (i have a lot to say and am terrible at organizing my thoughts srry) is that a lot of times pro-shippers infiltrate general fandom hashtags. a child who is scrolling though a bluey hashtag on tiktok should not have any risk of running into someone on the internet describing how bluey's dad would r4p3 her!

you may think that because you are only talking about fictional characters and "its a coping mechanism" its okay, but it is most certainly not! not all coping mechanisms are healthy and what you post on the internet most CERTAINLY has a real effect on people. this is basic media literacy and critical thinking, guys. stop posting child/sibling smut headcannons on the internet! it is absolutely vile!

with all of that being said, (i said this at the beginning but i am going to say it again) i still dont think it is okay to doxx, harass, or send death threats to people on the internet! if you send death threats to people, you are awful! if you go out of your way to harass people when they tell you to leave them alone, you are awful! if someone says something you dont like, talk with them like a normal fucking person jesus christ! if you repeatedly harass a pro-shipper, you are not helping them get any better!

(im gonna put a bunch of proshipper hashtags at the bottom of this to reach the targeted demographic, i am NOT a proshipper, i am NOT an "anti anti" and i do NOT believe proshippers are valid, again, this is just for reach just to be clear)

[ver-slxt]

yeah thats SUCH normal bonding /sarc

…

…

…

i am literally so (not) normal about these two and i am staying up COOKING some headcannons about them ૮₍ • ˕ - ₎ა♡₊˚

[shipping-kitchen]

Honestly, I’m a proshipper mostly in defence of the weird kid that I used to be.

When I was seven years old, I wanted to run away with the villain of my favourite YA books and I wrote little love letters to him all the time.

When I was ten, I started shipping the main character of another series and her mentor (who was four hundred years older and also a skeleton).

When I was twelve, I started shipping myself with the Joker and wrote a few little stories where he kidnapped me and we fell in love

I finally discovered fanfiction at the age of thirteen, and I was overjoyed to find a world of weird fiction and pairings and the ability to read the same plot over and over, instead of reading the same book over and over.

It’s hard to put into words how much discovering online fandoms felt like coming home. Finally being seen.

At fifteen, I had a challenge with my friend group to see who could find the freakiest fanfiction and read it out loud without laughing or flinching. I have incredibly fond memories of those days.

I have always been a weird kid, for more than just my taste in fiction. But I’ve always been thankful that fandoms were a safe space to be weird, to be freaky, to be unabashedly strange and obsessed with things that other people don’t understand.

I will stand here and defend any amount of strange and unusual fanfiction if it means that one other person can come into fandom spaces and feel the same relief I felt at thirteen: that I was finally not alone, finally not judged, and finally not the weirdest person in the room.

[totallyanactualperson]

“Proship means problematic ship!” Do you just. Not research anything and just go with what other (wrong) people say.

[transandrophobia-truther-turtle]

"Pro-shippers should try telling normies [family members, coworkers, random strangers] about their ships, those people won't accept them" is an example of the appeal to popularity fallacy.

The appeal to popularity fallacy can be used to support many things that should not be supported. For example, transphobia: the general public is fairly hostile towards trans people. If I picked a random person to come out to as nonbinary, there would be a fair chance of them reacting badly. Does this mean that transphobia is the correct belief to hold? No, of course not. The popular belief can be wrong.

And this belief ("pro-shippers will be ostracized if they talk about their ships") isn't even accurate. "Problematic" ships are super common. Incest porn is a big category on porn sites; you can't look at mainstream porn art sites without wading through tons of noncon; underage characters in anime are very frequently depicted in a sexual manner. Lots of people have watched Game of Thrones.

Plenty of pro-shippers have told their friends and family about their "problematic" ships. Of course, you have to have a relationship where that's appropriate, and there are many people who will react badly, but reasonable attitudes toward fictional content are actually pretty common. It's much more likely that someone will be horrified by the existence of a group (antis) dedicated to cyberbullying others.

Stop using this argument.

[proshipping-kitten]

Ships are so much sexier when they're a bit fucked up

(or a lot fucked up!)

[familymeansnoonegetsleftbehind]

[thirddoctor]

I actually don't see the lifespan thing as a huge issue though. Sure, it means their time together will be limited from the Doctor's perspective, but that's also the case with every other relationship they have with humans? As a Time Lord surrounded by shorter lived species, it's just a fact that they will outlive almost everyone they love. idk why it would be more of an issue here than with their friendships or surrogate family relationships?

Also it's a bit weird to me that people act like only, say, Romana or maybe River could be the Doctor's equal because plenty of the other companions are 1. adults 2. perfectly capable of holding their own against the Doctor.

[noa-ciharu]

Idk how in year 2022 "what you like in fiction doesn't reflect your morals, what you like irl and life goals" is considered a hot take

[s0fter-sin]

being on twitter and seeing 18yr olds with “minors dni” in their bios is the weirdest thing ever

[fiction-is-passion]

Real spicy meme 🌶