#racists in mcu fandom

[sparklesandmarvel]

I'm reposting this because I don't want it getting swallowed up by the length of the post but some of y'all need to get a grip. I had to respond to the person who had som foolishness to say about my post, so to recap:

@ribbonsflyingoutthewindow

All you did was show how ignorant and tone deaf you are. You make several arguments that fall flat for several reasons and are just laughable.

Firstly, I cannot believe Black have to keep saying this, we do not care if you have Black "friends", that is irrelevant to the argument and you can have Black "friends" and still be racist. Saying this actually leads me to believe that you are because why are you throwing around these relationships like you collected tokens you want to cash in? It’s like you are using your “friends” as a veil to poorly hide your racism.

2. My whole post is about the racist reaction to Sam being Captain America and how Bucky wouldn't have been treated like this had he been chosen. Trying to center yourself and your thoughts and opinions about how not racist it is to have a preference is not appropriate.

I literally said "People constantly inserting their opinion "Bucky would've been better," for no actual reason." Referring to the people who say this and give no actual reasons as to why Bucky would be better. At the end of the day people will have preferences and that's fine, but as far as the Captain America preferences go they seem to only prefer white Captains whether they want to admit it or not.

And honestly there is no reason to not want Sam to be Captain America. There isn't. There is not one valid reason. It happened in the comics and Sam was able to do the job just fine, Sam Wilson in the MCU is smart, caring, tough and more than capable of doing the job with or without super soldier serum.

When you said "If you want strictly my opinion (which you don't, but it's the only one you think I'm qualified to give), here it is. Marvel chose Sam to pander to an audience when they could have chosen Bucky and made a statement." This statement proves:

YOU ARE RACIST

Anytime a Black person is chosen for a popular and important role the company is “pandering to an "audience". This is a racist argument and I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It’s racist and spoken by racist people. The fact that you think the only reason why Sam was chosen is to be a token Black man to pander to an audience shows exactly what you think of Black people and how much you value them. If you even watched one episode of The Falcon and The Winter Soldier you’d know just a little bit about why it is such a big deal that Sam is taking over the mantle of Captain America. I’m not explaining it to you because you seem like the type to not care and still push a ridiculous narrative. But I will say considering the history of racism in America that is still prevalent to this day, Sam becoming Captain America is a big deal and does make a statement, it’s just that a lot of white people don’t try to relate to characters and backstories that don’t look like them or remind them of their own.

To address Bucky: I think there is nothing wrong with him getting his mental health together before taking on a role as stressful as Captain America, and where his character was left after Infinity War and Endgame he wasn’t really in a position mentally to take on the role. I don’t like how the Russos acted like he was too damaged to take on the role at some point but Bucky in the comics and in the MCU doesn’t want the role. Him wanting to be Captain America is inconsistent with his character. 

Now this is where the part of your argument gets really funny: 

“And this is really big for me because it has nothing to do with race, but everything to do with origin. Anthony Mackie was born in America. Sebastian Stan came here from Romania after Communism had destroyed so much of their homeland. So this was Marvel's ONE CHANCE to put the shield in the hands of an immigrant. It doesn't matter if an immigrant plays any other role, but to let them play Captain America? That makes such a strong statement it brings tears to my eyes to think about. Marvel has other Black superheroes. There isn't another chance to make an immigrant the face of America.”

You think A WHITE MAN is the BEST choice of an immigrant taking over the role of Captain America? His character isn’t even an immigrant so what the hell would that do? “Marvel has other Black superheroes” How dismissive of the importance and value of Black superheroes. The more you explain yourself the more racist you sound. You don’t need to walk around using the n-word to be racist. There are and will be plenty of chances for an immigrant to take on the role of Captain America, right now it’s going to be a Black man and if you can’t see the significance of that in a country that has and still actively treat Black Americans like trash, then you need to revisit history class and talk to those “Black friends” of yours.

If you really aren’t racist, you need to do some self reflection. Your response shows how dismissive you are of Black characters and their importance. Being more offended at being called racist than actual racism is a problem and detracts from solving the actual problem.

[seek--rest]

Two years later, AO3 finally got back to me and (politely but firmly) said they will not be rewrangling MCU MJ’s name to be tied together with Mary Jane Watson because while she is similar, she’s intended to be a separate character.

Disney you will fucking pay for your fucking crimes.

[couldntbedamned]

Do I want Daisy Johnson to be in Secret Invasion and therefore part of the official MCU canon?

On one hand I love her and want to see more of her because I’ve adored her since the pilot episode and her character development is honestly some of the best we’ve gotten for any character from ANY live-action Marvel property and Daisy can definitely go head-to-head with most of the the MCU’s heavy hitters and hold her own, if not completely wreck them. 

On the other hand, I love her and there’s 100% chance the MCU would completely and utterly fuck it up. And god the fandom misogyny would be fucking unbearable like it always is, especially if she’s even remotely perceived as a threat to a favorite ship or lets be real here, any male character fans want to fuck and the fandom racism would be be fucking terrible as well. 🎵 i think i’ve seen this film before...🎵 

So ultimately, no. I want her in AoS where she’s happy and appreciated.

[brw]

All the fucking racist clowns talking about "ugh they're RUINING Wonder Man" is genuinely so hysterical because absolutely fucking nobody thought about Wonder Man before this show was announced. I know this because I searched like a fucking dog trying to find an actual community of Wonder Man fans. There was a CBR thread and absolutely nothing else. It was me and that weird homophobically gay cosplay video where he's played by an Australian against the world. Do NOT act like you know what the fuck you're talking about saying they ruined Wonder Man. He hadn't been on a consistent team in going on a decade by the time the show was announced.

[sersi]

it really is insane how quick some mcu “fans” are to announce that even the most critically acclaimed mcu releases staring/focusing on characters of color (black panther/shang-chi/ms. marvel/wakanda forever) were actually mid/trash/failures and a sign of the impending doom of the mcu as a whole 🙃

[imperiuswrecked]

The day Doctor Doom is in the mcu and the fans start putting Doctor Doom x Reader fics in the tags I will have to exercise a great amount of restraint to not point out the very obvious fact that Doom is so sexually repressed he would need about 50+ years of flirting trying to kill his enemy before he even thinks about shedding one glove off.

[xo-tough-love-xo]

There is a reason Erik can’t be a praised like other villains in the mcu fandom because he is talking about white folks and anyone else that wants to take their side. This is making folks in real life he talking about salty because this is who he is talking about and much more boop

[mcufandomhatespeopleofcolor]

I'm gonna be going thru "the marvels" tag.

I'm gonna be calling people out for various stuff. Dunno what exactly just yet but I'm gonna put a general tag for all of the marvels discourse as

"the marvels fandom discourse" and "the marvels spoilers"

I will reblog this announcement every day I go through the tag!

mod ali

[nobodywhoishere]

I think the issue in a lot of fandoms is that people seem to think that traditional story arcs and character personalities are the only way you can do things and then attack anything that takes a more unconventional approach, operating under the impression that anything different is wrong

[faeriecap]

confession time i used to hate mcu samsteve but i think that’s mostly bc like people just used sam as a doormat like he was only ever shown to be either steves gay awakening off the ice or like his rebound and then dropped to the floor the minute he reunited with bucky but STILL expected to be his friend and provide emotional labor for steve and or bucky and thats so shitty bc they DID have a lot of chemistry at the start of catws and hes such a fun and interesting character he deserves BETTER

[valvatapiscinalis]

disapointing that the interpretations of OFMD characters calcified the way they did - I’m an izzy lover myself, but i was really excited to see Roach and Oluwande get speculative backstories and more in depth characterization

[possessionisamyth]

i get polls and im absolutely here to expose the tumblr girlies~ reblog as needed if you'd like to expose them too!

[the-cat-and-the-birdie]

When people say that Hobie would be black4black there's some people who get upset.

They think Hobie only dating black women or people is wrong. And racist. They think it should be called out and shunned.

It's funny how those people never had a problem before.

It's funny how those people don't seem to care that Peter Parker has only ever dated white women.

It's funny how those people don't care that Peter Parker has existed for SIXTY YEARS and he still has no canon ORIGINAL BLACK love interests.

They don't care that the only POC he's been attracted to are Silk - which was driven by biological pheromones and not actual love. And Michelle Jones - a black variant of his originally white love interest.

And EVEN THEN they casted her as a mixed race black woman. Zendaya said it herself - she recognizes she's "Hollywood's definition of an 'acceptable' black woman."

Hobie Brown dating black girls in fandom is wrong. It would be shunned. We should be ashamed, they say.

Peter Parker dating white girls in canon is okay. It's fine. Don't think about it, they say.

To them Peter Parker being attracted solely to white women is natural. They don't even think about it.

They don't give a fuck about diversity or representation. They care about seeing their favorite characters fuck white women regardless of who it is, how it happens, or how much of the character they have to erase.

If a character only dates white women - like Tony Stark in the MCU - they're fine with it.

Notice how Tony almost never takes home a black woman? And how all his one night stands are slim white women with blonde hair? Bet you didn't. Cause it's 'natural' to them.

Peter Parker has been basically romantically White4White since 1962. Y'all do not care.

Some rando on Tumblr thinks Hobie is Black4Black - and suddenly you're fixing your fingers to type a message - on anon of course.

I wonder why y'all never write to Marvel, demanding they show Peter with ALL RACES.

The same way y'all write posts demanding Hobie being shown with ALL RACES.

The next time someone tells me 'Hobie wouldn't discriminate, he loves all races!!'

I'll say 'So does Peter. Peter wouldn't discriminate. Yet all his love interests are white. Why is that? Do you care?'

The answer is very clearly no.

When Peter gets a canon ORIGINAL black love interest, maybe even we can talk.

Until then, don't tell me shit about diversity.

[chaoticsoulsword]

*sigh*

Let's do this again.

The most harmful and irreparable damage the MCU has ever done is definitely Wanda's characterization and how the "fandom" perceives her even when non-cb readers migrate to the 616 side.

(This is screenshot depicting a fan reacting to Russell Dauterman's redesign of Lore, an evil Wanda variant who first debuted in 1993 in Scarlet Witch #1. She will return in the new Scarlet Witch series this year)

In addition to all the "she's always been white" constant, toxic and racist comments, which only reinforces their lack of ability to recognize issues such as colorism, Rromani representation (when they actually know the difference between Rromani and Romanian, that is) and straight-up whitewashing, they also fail to identify a most essential trait of her entire characterization: her desire to do good and become a symbol of heroism.

Wanda despises doing harm to others. Her first iteration is legitimately a depiction in which she and Pietro are being forced by Magneto to work for him and his brotherhood of evil mutants, all thanks to emotional manipulation. She never means to hurt the original X-Men except when Pietro is hurt and/or in danger. It's her protective side, not her "evil" side.

(Uncanny X-Men v1 #4; #11)

It's also fundamental to be aware that Wanda and Pietro come from a place where there's trauma for being abused by Magneto when it comes to their powers. This is why they are hesitant to join the Avengers, and yet their sense of responsibility is stronger.

(Avengers v1 #16)

Now, when it comes to Chthon, it's another rabbit hole of struggling with independence, power and agency. Being controlled by an evil force is as an old trope as any other in comic books. Still, I can't help but notice that her relationship with Chthon is never truly solved as other magic characters' issues, so why does it stick to Wanda the hardest?

Allow me illustrate with other examples:

1. Magik and the Darkchylde.

For those who don't know, the Darkchylde is "an evil side" of Illyana Rasputin, result of her captor and abuser's tampering with her soul.

The Darkchylde has several interpretations, from abuse to struggling with self-worth, and it has been established for decades as a side of Illyana that she despises, fears and suppresses.

(New Mutants v1 #71)

Illyana took years to make peace with her inner self and even had an arc to leave her reigning place of power in Limbo to Madelyne, another character who was villanized by the narrative for the very same reasons. Which begs the question.... why would a fan root for the Darkchylde to be her standard self when this is precisely what she hates the most? When it's precisely what causes her pain and leads her to a process of isolation and unhealthy behavior?

2. Doctor Strange and dark magic

Throughout sixty years of stories, there are a few moments in which the Sorcerer Supreme is faced with the old dilemma if he should use dark magic or not. And yet, from everything he went through, even in his darkest moments, he still chooses to do good. This is an intrinsic part of him. Yes, we've seen alternate evil iterations, but the main version is still a recognized, praised character for all the good deeds he performs on a daily basis.

(New Avengers v3 Annual #1)

3. Loki against fate

(Immortal Thor #2)

Loki's most recent and important journey throughout the years is precisely changing their fate, from the god of mischief and lies to the god of stories. They know they also have antagonistic roles to play as such, and yet they look forward to building a better relationship with Thor and the Asgardians. They're as complex as they come, but never back to their first and oldest iteration.

--

There are others, of course, like Nico Minoru and the Staff of One, Daimon Hellstrom and his will to deny his father's desires etc etc. I can even point a famous non-magical one: THE HULK. Yep, the guy who has spent his entire existence struggling with said dichotomy.

So you see, this is not a situation where "women can't be villains, god forbid women do anything" like some of them love to claim. You have Amora, Morgan Le Fey, Umar, even Lore now. The fact is, the MCU pushed the main version of its Wanda to be an irremediable character. Fans may or not defend her actions, but the truth is, they went too far for a role of opposition/antagonism justified by mental issues, which is yet another problematic, hellish rabbit role that we discussed so many times, over and over and over.

House of M is by itself such a harmful event in Wanda's entire characterization that, even now in the 616 universe, she still struggles to be (re)accepted by the hero community. She's still demonized by mutants, she's still depicted as mentally unstable.

(X-Men #7 - 2019)

Meanwhile, few writers are doing their hardest to give her some independence and agency (praised be Orlando and McKay). She has finally showcased her resolve to deal with Chthon by absorbing the Darkhold. She finally built a place to help people in a small community. She's an avenger yet again.

(Darkhold: Omega #1)

However, despite all that, she's still being patronized and lectured on (for instance, Agatha trying to take the Darkhold from her).

(Scarlet Witch v3 Annual #1)

The fact that she hasn't given up on the role of super hero only showcases how fundamental, intrinsic, unshakeable is her desire to do good. The fact that she's a nexus being and that the Scarlet Witch is a role passed down through generations are enough reasons to reiterate how important she is as a defender of the universe, same importance we often see in the role of the Sorcerer Supreme.

No fan has ever advocated for readers to be feared by a Sorcerer Supreme. Those are roles of heroes.

So yeah, "evil mother" and "serving cunt" will not do it for me. Because being evil means embracing everything Wanda hates the most and fights the hardest. So you come here and tell me that Wanda was supposed to be evil incarnate, to the point of comparing her to Voldemort, is plainly offensive and shows how little you understand her. You have other mothers to kneel to if you so desperately need one. Wanda is not one of them. Leave her alone.

TL;DR: Saying Wanda should be evil is stupid and harmful.

[petermj-week]

Announcement:

Introducing the new and improved petermj-week, a week to celebrate ALL versions of Peter and MJ— including!!!!!!!!— the MCU version we all know and love.

FAQ

What happened to spideychelle week?

This IS spideychelle week, with a name that befits the canonical and endgame love interest of Peter Parker— Michelle Jones-Watson

Does this mean I have to create something for another version of Peter and MJ? I only like the MCU version.

Nope! This week is and always has been a celebration of the MCU version of Peter and MJ and tbh, don’t see that changing much! If you DO like other versions (or write some kind of blend), you’re welcome to create for them in this week too!

Why change the name then? Isn’t that confusing?

Names matter. Names have meaning. No disrespect intended to the creators of the spideychelle name but intentionally separating MCU Peter and MJ away from every other version has only ever helped feed into and sustain the racism that fandom has had about her for years. MCU MJ is MJ and always has been. Why continue to help further that divide that still exists almost 7 years later?

I don’t like the MCU version of MJ / I don’t think that she’s a real MJ / I’ll create for the other versions but don’t wanna acknowledge her

Michelle Jones-Watson in the MCU is the MJ Watson of that universe. If you write in a white MJ into the MCU, your work will not be included and you will be banned from future events.

Giving credit and respect to MCU MJ as being one of the many iterations of MJ across the multiverse and expanding this week to include other versions of Peter and MJ is not a free pass for your racist fantasies.

I like the spideychelle name and I’m still gonna use it.

Cool! We can’t tell you what to do. Absolutely no one can or will stop you. The fandom name “spideychelle” will always exist.

Going forward, this week will be called PeterMJ-Week.

We hope you are excited to vote for prompts in

two weeks.

[tonkysexist]

One thing I think people in the MCU fandom consistently fail to understand about the issues with Jewish representation is that it’s not just some “passive” cultural and ethnic erasure, but actively insidious writing choices. The character who is originally Romani and Jewish is being portrayed by a white women and her character is still rife with nasty stereotypes about stealing children and using them in blood rituals. The “mystic witch” stereotype is cool on white women like Elizabeth Olsen and Patti Lupone but, perish the thought, we could cast actual Roma actresses to play nuanced and interesting versions of these characters. Oscar Issac is not just a non-Jew playing a Jewish character. He’s playing a character whose whole background was deeply tied to his judaism. In the show it’s barely a nod. Except for the abusive Jewish mother stereotype. And the part where he threw his kippah on the ground.

It’s not just about Jewish actors (which even if it was that would still be valid) it’s about the MCU actively making antisemitic and racist writing choices.