#religion in good omens

[jewomens]

Neil Gaiman mentioned earlier this summer that he wrote Crowley as Jewish, and lately I’ve been curious how that plays into his S2 arc of questioning and disillusionment.

Obviously Crowley isn’t ethnically or religiously Jewish, but it’s a pretty major part of Judaism and Jewish identity to question God and reinterpret the Torah as times change, and he specified that this was what he was referring to when discussing Crowley’s Jewishness.

His parallels to Christians who lose their faith are far more immediately apparent, so I could just be grasping at straws here, but there’s something about the way Crowley doesn’t fit easily inside Christian mythos, how he’s the first to really embrace life on Earth, and how he routinely dismisses Heaven and Hell that has a distinctly Jewish feel to it.

It’s also implied he had a closer relationship to God and Metatron than many of the other supernatural characters. When he tries to talk to God in S1E4, his tone is casual, and his language implies that God spoke to him at some point about His/Her plans for humanity. It’s almost as if he’s talking to a friend, which is a huge contrast to Aziraphale’s attempt to contact Him/Her (i.e. the ritual circle). Crowley’s also the first to recognize Metatron when he comes to Earth in S2, even after several instances of forgetting angels and demons he worked with previously.

This isn’t to say that Jews are somehow closer to God than Christians, just that - from what I’ve seen - Jews tend to have a more casual, interpersonal approach to their relationship with God than many more serious Christians. For example, the ideal of being “godfearing” seems to be more prominent and highly praised in Christian communities than Jewish ones, and the disparity between God and humans in Christianity (that God is infallible and perfect, and the humans are born tainted with sin) is really not a major part of Judaism at all. Rather, Jews see humans (and the Jewish people specifically) as having a role in making the world a better place, and that Satan is a tool of God’s to help challenge people to be better than their baser instincts. While I can’t speak to Crowley’s beliefs on that, his lack of total deference without any outright hostility seems more similar to the Jewish relationship to God than the Christian one.

That implied closeness could also be a hint at Crowley’s angelic alter-ego, and it might have nothing to do with Judaism. Unfortunately there’s no real way of confirming one way or the other until the third season comes out.

Either way, it’s fun to think about. Explorations of Jewish thought and relationship to God (particularly those written by someone with Jewish heritage) are few and far between, so it was an interesting idea to play with. Any thoughts/questions totally welcome! Most of this was fun speculation on my part, so I’m curious to see what other people might have to say.

[biancathecrossbow]

Interesting to see people interpret Aziraphales stutter after the kiss to be almost saying "I love you". To me it's pretty clear he's mouthing "I cant-" which is way more compelling anyway. Cant what? Cant return the kiss? Can't accept it? Cant begin to pull back the pretending and subterfuge and excuses that make up your relationship in order to get to the bottom of it? Cant say how you feel because you've been denying yourself for so long?

Aziraphale cant "do" anything in that moment *except* forgive Crowley. Its all he knows on Angel Default, and cmon. He's trapped in a mental prison of his own making. Every miniscule thought of touching Crowley is followed by doom-shame and thoughts of being struck down by God.

You can blink and miss it, but (except in flashback) Aziraphale doesn't eat almost any food this season. Id bargain he is already feeling the waves of shame from his years in temptation way before Crowley kisses him. He can't.

[assiraphales]

I’m committed (for funsies) to the ‘crowley is lucifer’ theory because the evidence is lowkey convincing (lucifer is the light bringer and crowley created the stars, he loved humanity too much, he was the one to tempt eve, he’s was a high ranking angel AND a high ranking demon who got all the big jobs like the flood, job, jesus, someone said he signed his name last season with an L) BUT I would also like to consider that there may be more to aziraphale than we know. because he was there at the beginning of the galaxy with crowley. he also got all those big jobs. he held audience with the archangels for his entire career and asked questions/was allowed a bookstore/stopped armageddon and wasn’t punished more than getting fired. the miracle he and crowley performed set off alarms. metatron is trying to manipulate him & his power for the second coming. something is up!!!

[mx-anthony-janthony-crowley]

listens to queen and hozier and recognises every other lyric from good omens fic titles

[sherdnerd]

I stg if I see one more "Justice for medusa's TRUE story!" post I'm gonna kill someone.

(TW: Assault mention)

The medusa is assaulted by posidon then cursed by athena for being assaulted in her temple only appears in Ovid's Metamorphoses, which is written as a purposeful subversion of Greco-roman myths. most are reframed or rewritten from just kinda a thing that exists or a black and white moral tale of why you shouldn't be hubristic to full on tragedies on the part of the person often getting their comeuppance or the monster. Heck in book 13 we get a love story starring Polyphemus, the cyclops from the Odyssey.

In general mythology, Medusa is just another monster. Ovid revises the myth to turn it into a tragedy. I absolutely love ovid's work, he does so many clever things with the myths, but for the love of the gods its the furthest from the real version you can get

[alphacentaurinebula]

I Forgive You: Queerness in Oppressive Systems

"How much trouble can I get into just for asking a few questions?"

There are a million ways to read Aziraphale's and Crowley's relationship and choices and I love them all, but one that struck me forcefully was the idea of different reactions to being queer in an oppressive (religious) system.  The two of them are such different people (not people) from the start, and their different experiences of Heaven and Hell are entirely the consequences of their different personalities.

First let's look at Crowley. A happier angel you never did meet. His joy and absolute adorableness in Before the Beginning was one of the sweetest moment in the whole season for me, out of so many sweet moments. He is utterly himself, and can't imagine the idea that he should hide any part of his identity. He is odd, unusual, asks damn fool questions - and he can't see what's wrong with that. Just like a queer kid who grows up in a religious system and  behaves outside of gender norms before realising that was something they weren't supposed to do, he can't imagine getting into trouble for his difference. And just like too many queer kids who can't/don't hide their difference, he gets kicked out of his home and abandoned.

Now, Aziraphale. He is a lot closer to Angel Behaviour TM, but it's clear that's because he understands there IS an expected behaviour, there IS a way he's supposed to act and think. He falls for Crowley, and is made to think about the questions Crowley is asking in a way that steps outside Angel Behaviour TM. But he instinctively understands how dangerous that is. He tries to pass that knowledge onto Crowley, to protect him. As he smushes himself into the Angel box, he ties himself into knots ensuring that he fits perfectly into the system around him, which he has identified as Good and Right and therefore anything different about himself would be Bad and Wrong. Much like a queer person trying to exist under an oppressive religious system, he has repressed those parts of himself that don't fit, and tried to sand off the corners and fit himself into the prescribed shape. 

Carrying this analogy through time, the Crowley we meet in the present day has already been abandoned, which allows him to see the system that left him more clearly. But he has never understood Aziraphale's perspective, because he never tried to change who he was for any system - not Heaven and not Hell. Though he does now understand that he has to hide certain parts of himself to survive - thus his constant refrain of “I’m not kind”. Clearly a necessary concealment, given what happens at the end of the Edinburgh minisode.

Throughout most of the flashbacks and even most of season 1, Aziraphale is still trying to smush himself into the shape of an Angel TM, and is terrified of stepping outside of it. He does learn that he can push the borders, that he can maybe stick a toe out here and there, that he can even fully step outside it for a moment as long as he doesn’t get caught (ie Job). But what he never really learns or at least never really believes, despite a mountain of evidence, is that Heaven is not synonymous with Good and Right. 

We can see it with Job, where Aziraphale is jumping through a million mental hoops to pretend to himself he is still doing the will of God even though he has been expressly told and seen evidence that God’s actual will is something Aziraphale would consider ‘wrong’. In Edinburgh he drops a heck of a lot of "ineffable"s trying to convince himself and Crowley that the heavenly system as it exists is just and right. 

And throughout season 2 but especially at the end, he clearly still feels that some Angels might not be Right and Good, but Heaven is Right and Good, and if only the right Angel is in charge of it, it can return to its core essence.

He still believes that Heaven is inherently Good, and so he is still trying to fit himself into a system that would reject him if it really knew him.

And all that is where “I forgive you” comes from for me - or at least that is one of the interpretations that makes sense to me. That basically because he's still so determined to fit into that Angel Shape TM, still so determined to be what Heaven says is right, that he is forgiving Crowley for challenging that, for making him want something else for a moment, for making it harder for him to repress those parts of himself that are different and, in his/Heaven's view, wrong.

And that is why Season 3 must end with Aziraphale realising that Heaven is not Good TM and with the takedown of the Celestial system itself. Yes apparently I end all of my metas with this now.

[larphis]

I think the closest thing I‘ll ever accept as a proof of god‘s existence are fix-it fanfictions. Jesus sounds great and all - but have you ever had a post canon fanfic that was so well written that it sounded like it was actually canon and you felt as if all your wounds were suddenly healed?? THAT‘S a religious experience if there ever was one, if you ask me.

[tsnbrainrot]

are we ready to talk about the way crowley's voice shake and he has to hold back tears when he says 'and we've spent our existence pretending that we weren't' or ???

this has hurt him for 6000 years........

[moonyinpisces]

i want all meta writers and/or people with s3 predictions to please. pretty please. write the fic. otherwise SO MUCH is being lost in translation in your explanations and your 15k theories with screenshots and sources in a format that would rival my grad school essays. like have you heard “shakespeare must be performed not read”? that’s the exact same principle with s3 predictions. all the academic writing and web weaving posts in the world won’t accurately depict what you’re seeing in your head, it HAS to be experienced in practice both on the writing end and the reading end. JUST WRITE THE FIC!

[hikarry]

Seems legit to me

[mommyashtoreth]

I think it's Easy but also extremely lame to reduce Crowley's element of "temptation" down to "he's horny and he Awakens Lust Within Aziraphale." Like don't get me wrong, I love gay sex, but Any of the deadly sins can be gay sex if you try! Isn't it more interesting to represent Aziraphale's desire for Crowley through something like, idk, "gluttony" which is more in line with how Crowley repeatedly "tempts" him (ox ribs = gay sex, anyone?)? Look I'm gay I know how this stuff works, all-consuming 6000-year desire stops being just Lust at some point. Crowley made Aziraphale realize he's been starving his entire life and that's not gay sex enough? Just in general Crowley awakening "sin" in Aziraphale and Aziraphale awakening "virtue" in Crowley is sooooo sex to me. Girls we need to talk about this more

[rushinintolove]

[takeme-totheworld]

Currently obsessed with the fact that while the God of the Good Omens universe is real, she’s almost entirely absent from the story, and when she does directly show up as part of the action it clarifies absolutely nothing. Everyone talks about God’s plan and what God wants but nobody ever gets that information directly from God—only from other beings who claim to speak on her behalf.

It’s exactly like real life religion.

Heaven in Good Omens is a religious institution. The angels are doing religion. The fact that we know for sure God is real in this universe makes no difference if she’s so remote and enigmatic that no one has a clue what she’s up to, not even the angels who are supposed to be directly serving her.

[qqueenofhades]

....I feel Some Kinda Way about the capital-Q Queerness of this season thus far, I'll tell you that.

[applequills]

Good Omes + Lyrics from Big Houses - Squalloscape

[whathehe11]

This is stupid but I need to share it so here you go.

Crowley storms into the bookshop, Aziraphale is behind the front desk.

Crowley: hey Angel!

Aziraphale: yes dear?

Crowley walks over to the front desk. He has a piece of paper held in his hand.

Crowley: Look what I got!

Aziraphale looks at the piece of paper.

Aziraphale: is that a birth certificate?

Crowley: why yes it is!

Aziraphale: and why do you have a birth certificate with you?

Crowley: I wanted to have something official. Been looking at lists of dead people for years till I found a name I wanted.

Aziraphale nods. He is confused by Crowley’s desire to have a birth certificate.

Crowley: Ooh! And look at the name. That’s the best part!

Aziraphale grabs the paper and brings it closer to his face.

Aziraphale: where on earth did you find a birth certificate saying Anthony Janthony Crowley!?

Crowley is smug but stays silent.

Aziraphale: Crowley.

Crowley: yes

Aziraphale: where did you get this birth certificate from.

Crowley: I told you. The death register.

Aziraphale lifted an eyebrow. He looked more intently at Crowley’s face. Trying to see what was missing.

Aziraphale: is this what you were doing when you were a nurse forty years back!?

Crowley: whatever could you mean?

Aziraphale: you were changing the names on birth certificates weren’t you. How many times have you done this!?

Crowley: in my defence I only changed the names when the parents gave their kids stupid names. I couldn’t let those kids walk around with names like ‘Ahmiracle’ or ‘Heaven Lee’. Dreadful those are. And people call me a demon.

Aziraphale was about to speak but Crowley cut him off.

Crowley: besides. I had to balance the good with some mischief and get myself a good identity.

Aziraphale: crowley

Crowley: yes, Angel.

Aziraphale: how many Anthony Janthony Crowleys are there walking on earth right now?