#s2 actually making me care enough about the characters to ship them >>>

[tinyufoboss]

if i say i love them, how predictable would that be

[username0204]

It's either Byler or just shitty writing - viewing the show as GA

At first I want to point something that I think is not talked about enough... The fact that Maya makes fun of how absurd it would be to have a canonically queer character fall in love and then sacrifice themself so their crush can live happily ever after in a het relationship is soooo funny to me, I literally couldn't believe she got away with it xd bc that's EXACTLY what anti-bylers think Will's arc is set up to be...

I'll get back to that later but first I'd like to share my journey with Byler as I was watching the show without interacting with the fandom... I started out probably similar to most people believing that Will is most likely gay and assuming Mike is straight and the writers are just handling Mike's and El's relationship very poorly since the beginning of S3 and I simply couldn't root for them ever since.

It's not a deep dive analysis of the subtext/parallels/queercoding, there are already plenty of it and you probably already know as much or more about it than I do rn. It's simply my experience as a member of GA (at first ofc, I'm here now after all, right? xd) and my thoughts on El<-Mike->Will dynamic as I was watching casually and how the only thing keeping me from being a Byler-truther was my general lack of trust in media when it comes to queer stories.

So if you're feeling some Byler-doubt and think that maybe you're overthinking Max's rainbow sleeves and it all might mean nothing then give it a read :) Maybe I can convince you that it's actually much simpler.

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Ok, here we go, that was my thoughts on the spot while watching:

S1 & S2

Nothing much to say here tbh... I just thought that both Mike/El and Mike/Will relationships are cute. I liked Mike, he seemed like a true "heart" when it comes to his friends. I liked how caring and protective he is of Will and kind to El (despite the few lash-outs but they are totally understandable in his situation). The cliff-jumping scene still haunts me though... what was that about and why they just never discuss it after?? It's true that when it comes to Will (both S1 and S2 plots were about Will tbh), Mike is always the first one to care or the one that the narrative focuses on, but back then I just assumed it's because he's the protagonist not because it's about Will specifically.

His admiration for El is totally understandable - she comes out of nowhere and helps with rescuing Will and "dies" protecting them - how can you not fall for that? Their "romance" seemed a little forced tbh, but they're cute so it's fine... it's TV, they need to sail the "ship" after all I guess. I just hoped it wouldn't outshine the friendships later on and... well jokes on me

S3

Although Mike's and El's relationship in the beginning of S3 is pretty realistic (given their age etc) and this season heavily leaned on the comedy part (not the best decision for some of the plots but that's just my opinion), the break-up part was really off... It's not how you handle "the break" in an endgame couple, not even in sitcoms!! The most famous being Rachel and Ross (not that they should have been the endgame but that's not the point) - their break-up is sad and emotional and they even had to introduce a comedic subplot of the rest of the gang bc without that it wouldn't be a sitcom episode. It was just really off how they portrayed Mike's and El's break-up as comedic... And I'm happy they broke up and the show itself seems to be happy about it too, I guess? Weird choice for an endgame couple... At the beginning of S3 I thought to myself "God, I really wouldn't like to be in a relationship with someone like Mike if that's how he is to his girlfriend" and that thought stayed with me till the very end of S4.

In contrast I really liked how serious they were about Will's and Mike's fight. The "it's not my fault you don't like girls" was a shocker - if he knows about Will being gay that's just homophobic (from S1 we know he stands up to homophobes so WTF writers?) and if he doesn't know... well that's just sus to me... overcompensating/projecting much? Maybe that scene was suppose to be more about hinting at Will's sexuality but it's still a weird choice for Mike's character... Both that scene and the Castle Byers scene broke me... But overall at that point I was just glad that they decided to put so much value on that in contrast to (what seemed to me as) "girl/boy crazy" phase of teenagehood. Let's be real, we all lost friends to that disease xd

But then they ended the season with Mike and El supposedly getting back together??? At that point I was sooo over it already and relieved that Mike at least didn't seem too into that idea, despite the fact that Byler as a possible canon romantic ship haven't crossed my mind yet.

S4

And then comes S4 and oh boy... At that point I still believed that the writers want Mike and El to be the endgame and are just horribly shitty with writing it. They are fake with each other, lie to each other, have nothing in common (except for fighting the evil from another dimension) and have the most ridiculous "obstacle" possible of Mike not being able to say "I love you" and gaslighting El about it. It just seemed to me like they couldn't come up with an arc for Mike and settled for the worst option possible. I remember thinking - if that's your endgame couple, you really fucked it up... how am I suppose to root for them if the obstacle is not some miscommunication (Mike and Will), trauma (Lucas and Max) or external factors (Nancy and Jonathan) but the very core of a relationship - to love and to feel loved? If they at least introduced some type of reason as to why Mike is not able to say that, I would be happy not to immediately assume that he just doesn't love her that way. But they didn't. Same thing happened between Nancy and Steve but we all know that already.

Mike's interactions with Will were super weird as well all season and didn't make much sense to me at that point. He's distant and I guess it can be explained by the fact that they didn't stay in touch... but even with that the whole airport hug and "we're friends!" seemed very harsh - similar to the "it's not my fault you don't like girls" from S3. Again I assumed that maybe Mike knows about Will being gay and (as most "I'm not homophobic but..." kind of people) just tries to make the "no homo" between them very clear. But once El is out of the picture Mike starts to act very different with Will (all of their heart-to-hearts, being open and vulnerable, the stares etc) and that theory just doesn't make sense anymore... if he was so "no homo" before, what changed?

And then the real kicker... unlike most here (I'd assume) I wasn't happy with how they handled Will's sexuality making itself undeniably canon with the van scene. It broke me and I hated that. Till that point I could just be misinterpreting his crush on Mike but the van scene??? They could have confirmed his sexuality in many different ways... TV has done it many times in many ways! And it's not just in media targeted towards queer audience... Shameless confirms Ian being gay in the very first episode with his brother finding gay magazine clippings! Or they could have introduce a new love interest as they did with Robin but nooooo - Will is confirmed gay by being in love with his best friend while trying to repair said best friend's relationship with his girlfriend. At that point I was really like "damn, those writers must really hate Will". I don't know about the GA but I really don't find the "gay-boy-heartbreak-suffering" that entertaining... If they really need to tick off the "gay-boy-character" box it's the worst way to do that... it's not giving depth - it's just torture at his point, he's been though enough to throw an "unrequited queer love for a bestie of 10yrs" on him as well.

And Mike's "confession" to El? Tbh I was over them long before that... I didn't even care. It was cheesy and off and forced and didn't make any sense whatsoever, I actually cringed the whole time - but I wasn't surprised at all, I just assumed once again that they just can't write them properly... whatever. But then the cabin scene... similar to S3 ending I was just glad that El was distant bc she had every right to be, I'm glad that me and El seem to finally be on the same page here. Funny that the love confession that apparently was the direct solution to "you don't say you love me" conflict didn't fix things and seemed to only make it worse. But on the other hand if I had to go though the same arc all over again in the next season I'll just loose it xd

______________

So that was my initial thoughts while watching the show...

I didn't read too much into it. All I took from it was "the endgame couple is horribly written", "Mike is weird to both Will and El", "apparently the writers decided that Will hasn't suffered enough already". With how queer or queercoded characters are treated in media that are not specifically targeted towards queer audience I really don't have much hope usually... I logically knew that Byler just would make more sense narratively and for the characters but I thought it's too good to be true.

But then I stumbled upon some edits and people pointing out all of Mike's queer coding throughout the series... Most of the "plot/narrative evidence" I was able to pick on myself but just blamed the writers. It's the soundtrack and the set/costume design that really sold it for me. There is no way that the "you're the heart", "in the closet", "one-way" sign and that ridiculous triangle pocket and many more are just a coincidence when you put it next to the writing. There is no way that the show can be so detail-oriented and fuck-up the writing so bad at the same time.

So what if all the stuff I interpreted as simply "bad writing" and my thoughts and feelings towards El<-Mike->Will are actually exactly what the writers intended? Funny thing that in S4 we see Mike from Will's perspective so it wouldn't be so crazy that the GA interprets Mike the same way Will does... the only exception being that the audience knows exactly what the fight between El and Mike was about.

If the rest of the crew is so talented maybe the writers are as well? Damn we already saw that with Robin and Steve in S3 - how they masterfully subverted every expectation and made it so much better than anyone imagined! They not only subverted expectations, they subverted queerbaiting and turned it into "straightbaiting". That's a true skill right there. And all the other relationships (not just romantic) are well written as well... only the El<-Mike->Will dynamic is so weirdly written... or is it on purpose? There is no way that a skilled team of writers could fuck up the "main couple" so bad and make you feel bad for the third-wheel for being so hopelessly and selflessly in love on accident.

It's true that some authors can accidentally make things seem not exactly how they intended... or simply just queerbait the shit out of it. But that's not the case here - it's not just the writers team, it's every other team that works for the show as well... so they just collectively misinterpreted the plot? It happened before with HP3: PoA where the director and actors assumed two besties to be gay for each other upon reading the source material - but that was a book adaptation and the story was not written by the people creating the adaptation (unlike the Duffer Brothers). It doesn't seem like queerbaiting as well... there is too much attention to detail here in subtext + they already subverted this with Steve and Robin, while usually the classic "queerbait" relies on 2 characters just having good chemistry and some sus dialogue or scenes that are usually also acknowledged by other characters (Sherlock I'm looking at you) but are usually portrayed as "straight" outside of their dynamic - and definitely it's not common for one of the party to be canonically in love with the other! (Supernatural was the worst about it and everyone knows it)

Also the social-media/PR part... that's where we come full circle to the interview from the beginning of this waaaay too long post xd There are a lot of sus posts from the official accounts that lean into Byler as well as some quotes from interviews... I won't go into that bc this is too long already. The point being, they know what they're doing... it's subtle enough not to be a spoiler but it's there, so it's not an accident. Also it's hard to believe that out of all people we will be queerbaited by an actual queer person (Noah being THE Byler shipper xd).

______________

Overall there are "theoretically" 4 ways Will's romantic arc can end in S5:

Will comes-out and learns that he is accepted and loved either way Well duh obviously but I don't think that will be all there is to it, he already knows that his family is accepting and Finn said in one of the interviews that Mike will probably accept Will... if that's the whole arc then it's already spoiled and they wouldn't let it slide in an interview, so there has to be more to it...

Will dies (aka bury your gays) Well... no xd Multiple people of the cast said that Will's ending will be happy + that would just mean that Maya's crazy idea applies to Will (which again, like with Finn, they wouldn't let it slide if that was the plot even if it applies to a different character - the only 2 canonically queer, mind you - so it's not hard to connect the dots) and it just shows how ridiculous and out of "the show's spirit" it would be. The fact that the cast makes fun of that arc should be proof enough that it just won't happen.

Will has a new love interest Unlikely... they said that there won't be any new crucial characters introduced in S5 (ofc they could be lying) but that just makes the whole "Will is in love with Mike" absolutely pointless plot-vise. Seriously what was the point then? And there's simply not enough time for the "painting shenanigans" resolution, rejection, getting over Mike, meeting someone else and falling for them. Especially since Mike and Will will be most likely teamed up in S5

Will's feelings are reciprocated by Mike This narratively makes most sense. Will is already canonically in love, Mike and El are not ok and she seems to be sooo done with his bullshit (me too sis), Will's confession makes Mike feel loved and he looks at Will the way I'm not sure I've looked at anyone ever tbh. Mike reciprocating the feelings would also explain all of his weird behavior in the previous seasons. El is finally out of a relationship that makes her feel like a "monster/garbage/someone's pet" and free to define herself for herself and not some "random nerd" - just like Max taught her (the first one to see El as her own person and encouraged her to find and be herself mind you... god I love this duo <3)

So out of all of these 4 ways only the last one actually addresses the "writing issues" and makes sense plot-vise and arc-vise. Any other solution will just prove that the writing is actually shit when it comes to this trio, especially if they keep El and Mike together as a couple.

TLDR: Byler is endgame... ...or the whole ST crew really fucked up - writers hate Will and all of the sudden can't write characters when it comes to Mike and also can't write romance when it comes to Mike and El but by some magical coincidence the set/costume designers, editors, PR, music composers and cast didn't get the memo about the plot from the writers while the directors are nowhere to be found to make it all make sense xd

[melmedardasworld]

Honestly, Mel is NOT a mirror to Viktor. The fact that ppl (shippers) take that line talking about HER powers and story arc and in a literal sense apply it to Jayvik is insane. I've just seen so many dishonest discussions about Mel's storyline being more than being tied to a man (absolutely true), but then turning around to validate HER peculiar story and character development for a ship. If you really valued her and cared for her, you wouldn't say this, and it's lowkey gross. It gives the same vibe as those animators saying Jayce had to sleep with Mel to know it was Viktor all along. People can say don't use their words as truth, but a LOT of people are using that as a gotcha for shipping war bs. I see the viral posts and overarching well the writers/animators, etc. said it was, so my ship is canon, and yours isn't (just delusional all around).

Gone are the times wheter canon didn't dictate people in getting so heated and nasty and just want to be right.

I'd say Mel and Viktor are foils, and if the writers took the time to actually have Mel and Viktor interact past putting Jayce as an in-between (often only squished as the prize) character, we could get decent analyses and discussions.

Currently, the majority of their dynamic by fandom is literally based on people's saying that she looks down on Viktor cause she ignored/looked at him a certain way in one scene and micro analysed her expression or that she's a manipulative (groomer) seductress that used Jayce for her own gains when honestly everyone used each other (Jayce 'used' Mel, Mel 'used' Jayce, Viktor 'used' the both of them directly and indirectly etc.) Is that manipulation? No. I'd call it being mature enough to understand that certain ventures and goals involve give and take. I think MelJayVik understood that when it came to Hextech and that in itself cause more complex issues and implications once the whole Zaun vs. Piltover storyline erupted.

We could've actually had intellectual scenes between where we touch uppn the fact that Mel is part of an oppressive system as a Councillor (and that whole system that was set in place waaaay before she came to Piltover as an exile and ended up where she is) and that her ideas for Piltover, didn't include Zaun, where Viktor is from and on the opposite end had to work his way up and only ended up as an assistant until he and Jayce became lab partners.

Instead, we get dumbed down discussions and views that have shipping at its basis and fandom, concluding that their interpretation is canon when it's quite not. It doesn't help when the writers have fallen into that same cycle in S2. Now they come out in interviews to put their perspective out when I'm like, why didn't you put it in the show then if that was your intention or how it should've been interpreted?

It's bad writing and storytelling.

It really makes me wonder if the writers cut that happened between S1 and S2 was really the reason behind the ish we got in the final Arcs.

[stanlunter]

Idk why, but I wanna make a post about Arcane ships I don't like (not hate, just dislike) so here it is:

Timebomb – Yeah, I love their fanarts and edits and they are cute, but I never was obsessed with it and till s2 never even thought about shipping them. They def could be interesting as enemies-lovers, but for some reason they never got me and never actually made me feel something

Jayvik – I've said what I think about them before, but to me they're just close friends. Jayce sees him more of like a brother, while Viktor doesn't care about Jayce as much as Jayce cares about Viktor, plus he's kinda jealous of him. I don't see any romantic potential and honestly think their relationship is insanely overrated

Melvika and basically any ship with Sevika, especially with anyone outside of Zaun – first of all, I can't see Sevika in any relationship and always saw her as aromatic. The second thing is that she hates Pilties more than anyone and would never be lovers or even friends with them, and especially not with Ambessa who literally created a war between the fwo cities. Sevika suffered enough from them and she would never in her life date any of them

Melvik – I can see them as sort of frenemies, but I just don't get how can anyone see them in romantic way and can't see them being in love with each other in any universe. Also since Viktor is asexual, it would just be hard for him to be in relationship with someone who enjoys sex, including both Mel and Jayce

Skyvik – it def does make sense, but we just didn't know Sky enough and didn't saw enough of their interactions (before s2) for me to care about them. Ngl they were cute in s2 and may be if there was a context with their other moments, I would ship it, but there isn't so I just don't

Caitlinx/Caitjinx – they could have some potential of enemies-to-lovers, but there just aren't enough of their interactions for me to ship them. I COULD ship them after s2 if we had the actual war and hatred between them, but unfortunately the moment Caitlyn started hating Jinx mutually, Jinx stopped giving shit about Caitlyn. So it didn't use the potential and didn't become really interesting, may be only in fics

Silged/Sinko – Idk how I discovered it, but ngl, it could be interesting in sort of a fic. But unfortunately we didn't saw any their bond, so there's no chemistry that would make me ship them, they just don't care about each other. They would understand each other tho.

Vilko – I understand where it comes from and may be there could be some potential, but I don't really ship them and honestly their "like brothers" type of bond is already good, romance is just unnecessary here

Melora – not bad, but Elora is just too side of a character for Mel. We've barely seen them, however they definitely care about each other. So the same thing is Skyvik to me

Vangray or whatever their name is – I see them more as friends and I don't think it would fit in the story, but the ship itself isn't bad, just not my type

Ig that's all, but may be I'll upgrade it if I find a ship I forgot about

[askhezureviews]

no spoilers/specifics but when you get to Ghostfuckers it becomes so obvious Brandon is doing the writing again

it's the closest helluva has gotten to its season 1 self in all of s2, and it's still not fantastic, if I'm being honest

there's only so much he can do to right the ship

ep11&12 ping right back into Goetia melodrama, because of course

OKKKKkkkk finally sat down and watched this episode!

Hey! Look, it's like, their first actual job in forever!!! They're actually going to the human world again, great!

I'm very relieved Brandon was brought in to rewrite this. I know some Viv fans were upset about the leaks, but I think it was actually a good thing these leaked and sparked enough outrage for Viv to cave in and change it because Millie unaliving herself for being a bad wife is completely inappropriate. I'd personally feel ashamed and embarrassed if I had wrote that. She claimed they had plans for Millie, that she will get her episode in season 2, but she didn't. Even with Brandon's assistance here, she really didn't. I'd say those leaks are proof she lied to her audience, however... at this point, Vivziepop is merely not self aware of her writing and doesn't comprehend the stereotyping she does to her own characters and their stories. So I don't think she lied, she's unable to comprehend that she isn't delivering on what she claims she will.

The episode establishes: -Blitz's business is now bankrupt. He has not paid his employees in over a month. -Wally Wackford knows IMP and hangs out with them?? / wants to hang out with them?? -Ghosts aren't real in Helluva / Hazbin universe -There's infestor demons that eat off angst I guess? First time we're ever seeing one

Seems like a good portion of this episode is a scooby doo reference. The montage scene was unnecessary, you could have cut it for time / budget.

~~~

Regarding Millie: She claims the most screen time, but this episode actually isn't about her. The main focus is on Blitz. It's Blitz's trauma, Blitz's pain, Blitz's melodrama, and she just happens to be on screen dealing with it. We get a small pinch of something, but I'll talk about it after this analysis:

Millie asks Loona to take care of Moxie for her. These two still haven't passed the bechdel test yet. The only thing I recall them talking about outside of the men in their life is when Loona takes a jab at Millie's age in season 1, which also isn't ideal.

Millie claims she "always has fun with Blitz" and that he is her "best friend" which is news to the audience. This is the first time they've ever hung out in an episode. "I've never had a real friend that I didn't wanna f*ck." But you DO want to f*ck her. Earlier in the episode, he had Millie punch a card he's used frequently. Unwavering loyalty in exchange for leaving Moxie and Millie alone on 1 date. In a single episode he seems to have changed his mind quite suddenly and I'm unsure why.

Millie's backstory is chalked up to "She left the farm to become a hitman in Wrath. The market for assassin's is actually inflated in Wrath, it's high competition, so she was in between jobs. Blitz finds her after she stole their kill, and offers to pay her double. She accepts (Even though he went back on this, he does not pay her double. In fact, she barely gets enough to survive between both her and Moxie.)" She's hired by IMP to do various assassin jobs, and then Blitz decides to move to a different ring and use humans as their new clientele. This is an extremely smart move for his business, because there's quite literally zero competition for this. Millie for some reason thinks she "won't fit in"(??? you don't need to?) because imps are only good for their muscle" This doesn't make sense for Millie to say here. If anything she should have been more insecure staying in Wrath BECAUSE she would be actively compared to the higher competition of her birthplace. Here, they've hit a gold mine.

"Blitz, you made me realize I could be anything! Not just a simple farm girl or underpaid goon." But you are. Millie IS a simple farm girl and underpaid goon. Assassins are extremely common jobs for imps in wrath. She has not subverted people's expectations nor does she have a unique job to that of an imp.

"My mom said sweat, blood, and hard work washes the tears right off!" - Okay now THIS is the first piece of Millie development we have received in perhaps ever!! This implies that Millie's mother/family were emotionally unavailable to her as a child. That whenever she was upset/miserable, she was taught to bury her sadness with work. Which indicates she's a workaholic who probably needs therapy / has trouble expressing emotions properly. This would be a direct cause/effect action that shaped her into who she is today. This is an actual real Millie moment, and it comes from a passing comment. I don't think the writers caught on to what they did here, but THIS is good Millie development! THIS is a genuine character trait that is all hers!

~~~

Some stuff that did get a genuine chuckle out of me:

"I should have been a theater critic, I have objectively correct opinions!"- Moxie , It's also nice to see Moxie attempting to be the brains of the operation again, trying to solve their financial crisis, even if there's no way to save it.

"Your husband is still a little fuckable." - That actually made me laugh too despite the context being a little confused

Anyhow, overall the episode felt like it could have been 15 min long. They should have shortened it. We didn't really get much Millie backstory or character development. Instead of being insecure about her womanhood due to stereotypes(bad wife), she's now insecure about her race/species due to stereotypes (inbred brute). It's still not the best, but it's better than the leaked storyboard. Otherwise the entire episode was basically Blitz wanting to fuck a ghost. Also Blitz's trauma... again. Felt like filler you could frankly delete.

[princeblue]

I think we may have talked about this before over discord a bit, but what are your favorite zenitsu ships & duos? Any zenitsu related stuff you know how it is

I’m always happy to yap about Zenitsu!!!! My other blorbo, my other son, my other fave that I love to genderbend.

Honestly my favorite Zenitsu dynamic will always be him becoming the Uzui’s son, whether it’s through (accidental) adoptive means or through biological means. I think that after some time and getting to know the real people underneath the flashy and panicked exterior, Zenitsu & Uzui would bond over having an elder male figure they are expected to/want to live up to and having complicated relationships with their brothers.

Plus, I think Zenitsu deserves three moms who take care of him because he canonically was an orphan until his gramps took him in so that has to fuck with you.

Other than that, I’m actually a big on both tanzen and inozen, I think the dynamic of both are fun, I have bookmarks of both and even some bookmarks of inotanzen, they’re like a snack I forget I like until once a year where I go onto a binge reading of them and I go “okay that’s enough” and the process repeats.

However with that being said, I think Tanjirou and Zenitsu have a critically underdeveloped and undervalued relationship, the manga pushed inozen and their importance to each other a lot. But it oftentimes felt like there was a duo in a trio which sucked, because Zenitsu was there from the start too, he cared too, he even pushed Tanjirou out of the way from Daki’s attack in S2, putting himself in harms way for Tanjirou, even though with his speed, he could have safely gotten to a safer area.

But his instinct was to still protect his friend, likewise, I think Tanjirou’s ability to hold Zenitsu accountable to his actions should have been displayed in a less jokey manner, just like I think Zenitsu’s ability to make Tanjirou act like an actual pissed off teenager who hits his friend when he’s annoying are two things that can and should coexist. Inosuke was a wildcard who needed help assimilating back into society, and Tanjirou as a character who is established to be a caretaker and provider was the perfect person for this.

BUT, Tanjirou gets way too lost in taking care of others, it’s… basically his fatal flaw. Is that he’s willing to do anything for everyone, and Zenitsu doing things to make Tanjirou act like the sixteen year old he is is crucial to his mission actually, to take a break from the weight of it all, of Nezuko on his back, from the dirt underneath his nails that he had to bury his family with. And Zenitsu gets way too lost in his fears, his anxieties, he’s short sighted and will do anything for a quick get out. Tanjirou having confidence and faith in him (something Zenitsu himself acknowledges back in s1 before the rui confrontation) would boost his ability to be more reliable through the roof.

And then just again with the accountability thing, Tanjirou would absolutely hold him to it — but he’d have a very hard time doing it because Zenitsu is also 16? And his gramps found him when he’s 14? That’s only two years of being held accountable for his actions and responsibilities. Of course he’s gonna soo… unserious about a lot of things — and that silliness is exactly what Tanjirou needs.

And that’s why I always write Zenitsu & Tanjirou together in my fics because I am making up for lost time the manga doesn’t show us.

But tldr: Zenitsu & Tanjirou are a critically unrelated duo and I think they would have made for a good yin&yang dynamic in the manga which they have repeatedly done with multiple characters.

I think I kinda talked in circles about this, I’m a little eepy rn but I was excited to answer the question cuz I love talking to my friends and about Zenitsu, but it will always make me sad that he had the potential for many great dynamics and obviously had the setup for an arc that never got delivered, because I think he’s a wonderful character, you just have to dig around in it a bit lol.

(If there’s typos in this shh)

[romanticatheartt]

Do you remember how I said I won't be watching s3? Yes, I'm a lying liar through and through lol my sister said let's watch it and I love watching movies or TV shows with her, and tbh we had a good laugh😭💀

Okay so here are my thoughts:

First of all: KATE AND ANTHONY. Omg they're everything to me!! They were only in one episode but they made that episode theirs. I just love seeing them blissfully happy and living in their own bubble. I'm both sad and glad they were only in one episode. Because I wouldn't put it past the writers to give them some unnecessary drama and conflict. At the same time their screen time was so little... I suppose we can't have it all :')

Francesca. Omg I love her so much. I already loved her from the books but the show? God, she's so cute and beautiful. Hannah played her to perfection and I'm glad she's the new Francesca. Even when you read the books, that's how you imagine Fran's character. Both she and Kate have a special place in my heart.

John... my god John is here. And I'm already too attached to him. I can't- Listen, I know my heart will break when his time comes. The actor was such a good choice for his character and I was on the verge of crying whenever he appeared with Fran. She was always so happy to see him. I never thought two characters/actors could have this much chemistry while sitting in silence. GOD I LOVE THEM and I'm ready for heartbreak :D We still have no Michael but I'll keep hoping for him to appear because my god... Francesca's book is filled with angst I just hope when it's her turn, they do it justice<3

I actually enjoyed Eloise and Cressida. I never thought I'd say this but I did!! I know they made 180 changes about her character in the new season but I don't really care lol I just hope she works it out with Debling so at least she'll be free from her parents.

People keep saying they don't like Eloise this season but she's so much better than me. I would've been so much worse... The first thing I would've done was give Pen's name to the queen but she kept it this whole time and was actually worried about Pen... she was kind enough to a person who ruined her and her family, not once but twice.

There are too many side plots in this season. Like I don't want to be pathetic but we've been saying that since s2 and y'all called us delusional and said to be grateful because it was more than enough. But now that I see even Polin fans have a problem with this season makes me so happy and sad at the same time. Because when this happened to your favs, it's a real issue...

I love LD and QC friendship so much!! And QC & Brimsly. These friendships were more shaped since QC spin-off and I really enjoyed it.

It's obvious to me that they don't know what to do with Ben's plot lol. Because creating these unnecessary original characters is doing a disadvantage to the whole show. I really hope we see Sophie this season. 

Okay I've avoided the inevitable as much as I could lol so let's talk about the main couple:

They have no chemistry. I know some might not agree with me but there's no chemistry for me. It has always been like this since s1. At least I don't feel anything special between them. Nicola is a wonderful actor and is carrying the whole ship on her shoulders and I said what I said. 

Luke wasn't good at portraying Colin at all. He has no charisma and is trying too hard. I'm not talking about his character wanting to be something he's not but talking about the acting in general, so don't come for me with that argument. They really tried to make him like Anthony but failed miserably. Which is sad because even tho I haven't read their book, he in other books was absolutely my favorite side character. Me and my sister were laughing our asses off at some of his actings like sir... pls don't😭 I'm being super mean omg

The pacing of their relationship was weird. When he proposed to her I was so shocked like in episode 4? Already? Then I remembered in s1 we had the same situation but in s1 it felt right. It wasn't weird or felt too soon or too late, it was right. With Polin, everything felt out of order. I think they didn't want to focus much on building it up because they felt they already did in the past 2 seasons but it just felt off in the end. They weren't even together much on screen to feel like it's building up!! There was no arc or if it was, it was too subtle that if you blink you'll miss it.

The other problem with their plot was the similarity between s1 and s3. Simon was trying to help Daphne to find a husband and Colin is doing the same thing. Except s1 main trope was Fake Dating and s3 was Friends to Lover.

Which brings me to another reason why I didn't like s3. Friends to Lovers trope. Honestly, this is a me problem. I've never liked this trope at all. I really tried to change my mind about it, like reading books with this trope but most of the time I'm left unsatisfied or hating the book. Unfortunately, s3 was no different. This trope always comes off as unpassionate for me. Which I think it's the trope. Because it's supposed to be cute and subtle and I'm not sure it's really my thing. So I guess the major reason for my dislike of this season is the trope.

There were 2 fkn scenes of Colin participating in a threesome... That was so fkn bad like I can't believe this just happened. And one of them was after he kissed Penelope... I don't care that he didn't continue but... OUGH it gave the ick so bad, I didn't even watch it,  just fast-forwarded it.

That carriage scene was okay-ish? It didn't leave me breathless like the Kanthony scenes did. Tbh s2 left me in a shamble with how much emotions I felt with those two. But with s3, I had the exact opposite feeling toward the main couple.

Anyway, I think this season, revealing LW's identity was their priority which is why they weren't so focused on the romance (?) idk but I feel like part 2 won't be any different than part 1 and they're gonna throw some sex scenes to make it up for the romance lol

ps: I know I said s4 will be Benedict's and I still think it will be but if they decide to make it Francesca's? Oh, I wouldn't mind at all!! 

[pynkhues]

I think you explained something I've been pondering over for a while, namely why so many loustat fic writers hates lestat lol. Like I'm always taken aback by how often lestat is written as louis' sex toy who only exist to serve him and fulfill his (self-insert) fantasies or an evil patriarchal abuser who needs to be punished (or both). There's so many other ships they could pour ttheir energy into, if they truly see him as an evil racist abuser and louis as his helpess victim why even ship them. I'm actually fascinated by this fandom Christian-like obsession with punishment, paying for your sins, martydom and having an redemption arc. I find it interesting that people who consider themselves to be atheists and are anti-religion still succumb to this mentality. The prevalence of fics when louis needs to punish lestat (apparently killing him wasn't enough), make him suffer, lestat has to grovel at his feet, stop killing humans and only then he will deserve pure moral louis and then they will be "even". I find this attitude to be so immature, like this is not how relationships work irl, and yes it's a show about toxic vampires but, in my understanding it was never loustat dynamic to begin with. Something about moral purity in a show about vampires is just so funny to me.

Y'know, I actually think the main reason I've taken a big step back from reading fic and checking ao3 is because a few months ago, I opened two or three Lestat x Louis fics in a row that all had an author's note where the writer said that they hated Lestat. The concept of that alone honestly baffles me - not the hating Lestat part, I don't care what characters people do and don't engage with on the show - but the idea that you could write fic - and fic where Lestat is one half of a relationship - while hating the character is just wild to me. Why are you writing characters you don't like? Why are you shipping characters when you don't like one of them?

I just - - it really shocks me. As someone who's been writing fic for literally 20 years at this point, I can honestly say I've never written for a pairing where I haven't liked one of the characters, and it generates a lot of questions in me about the current state of fandom, the projection, the virtue signalling, the purity culture, and what that dictates about how people are willing to engage with stories.

But yeah, I guess more to your point, I don't disagree. I actually don't necessarily think it's unique to this fandom though? In the last fandom I was super active in - Good Girls - the main ship was a straight one between a gang leader (Rio) and a 'housewife' / mother of four (Beth) who'd resorted to a life of crime and found she had an aptitude for it after her husband lost their house, and there was an enormous sense of Beth needing to be punished sexually and otherwise in fic, especially after she shot Rio in the (admittedly underwritten) s2 finale.

It's kind of funny in that sense, because I have largely put the GG scenario down to internalised misogyny, especially given the volume of fans who watched the show exclusively for Rio, and who ended up feeling like Beth didn't 'deserve him', but it does feel different with IWTV. Not entirely maybe - I do think there's a sense of Lestat needing to 'earn' Louis back for instance which isn't necessarily tied to gender, but tied to a very shallow view of what relationships are, just as I think there is a cultural load and systemic connotations brought to scenes of violence, particularly intimate partner violence, when the person perpetrating is white (i.e. Beth shooting Rio, who is Latino, carries different weight than Rio shooting her white husband, and kidnapping her white sister, same with Lestat dropping Louis vs Louis slitting Lestat's throat + bashing a white man's head in after projecting Lestat's face onto him).

I think that's all important to talk about and to consider and reflect on, just as I think the insane amount of gender essentialism, TERF rhetoric, and feminisation in a gay ship is, but I agree that it feels married to a degree of moral purity and - I'd argue - it gets twisted up simultaneously with fetish, kink and fanon to make a bit of a melting pot of Stuff that feels difficult to reduce to any one thing.

I don't know if I think it's steeped in immaturity exactly - the people I know of writing some of the things that perpetuate a lot of these tropes and who have harrassed me and others I know are mostly in their late 20s and 30s - but I do wonder how much of it is tied to an isolated perspective of relationships and the world? I really do think you can tell when people don't often hear perspectives outside of their own in their day-to-day life, or, hell, I think people tell on themselves more than they realise in how they might phrase things, even on anon. I still joke with my sister about the doxxing attempt I got where one anon asked me if [my sister's first name] knew I wrote BDSM, which was meant as a clear threat, when my sister had literally sent me excerpts of the werewolf porn she was reading that day, lol. We also both talk about sex a lot, so like.

It wasn't an issue for me, but y'know, the sense I got was that the anon obviously thought I should be ashamed and my sister would be disgusted, and like - - I don't know. Most of my friends have read the smut I've written, man, and my sister doesn't care (my brother either now - given I told him what I wrote in the process of all of that, and he now finds it very funny to ask me loudly about my erotic fanfiction when we're on the train, so y'know, haha). It just felt very telling to me about how people like this think, how they feel about sex and smut, and also the relationships they have in their personal lives because, well, I guess from how they act, they wouldn't be talking to people in their real lives about any of this.

Is that Christian puritanicalism, is that immaturity, is that isolation, is that inexperience, is that something else, I don't know! It does feel wide spread in this fandom in particular right now, but I do think it's kind of everywhere, and I think the nature of this show having adapted this story as something both outright queer and diverse is pulling a lot of people towards it who might actually be more interested in the optics than the content.

[brotherconstant]

hi!! how do you feel about the preview for foundation season 3 with pilou asbæk as the mule? i’m personally sooooo disappointed that they recast him as i loved the original actor and im concerned that a lot of the decision was “let’s cast an attractive younger actor” in the role. the rest of the trailer looks great but im a bit worried

helloooo! ok normally the only thing i care about in trailers/teasers is the release date, i avoid making assumptions or creating expectations, both positive and negative, based on them, since they can be confusing and misleading. i'm also worried - not by what we've seen necessarily, but by goyer leaving as showrunner in the middle of writing/shooting and how that's gonna affect the story.

yeah, the recasting bummed me out as well, i really liked persbrandt and i think he was doing an incredible job in s2, he was both terrifying and pathetic and deranged without veering off into caricature territory, i think he would've been able to wonderfully explore the depth and complexities of the mule. asbæk (i'm not really familiar with his work, unfortunately) is necessarily going to play the character his own way and (from what we've seen) i'm having difficulties associating him with the mule we met in s2. so either the mule we met in s2 was from a more distant point in the future and so we're now about to meet his younger version, or like you said they decided to cast a younger actor for viewership reasons. i think they should've kept persbrandt, his theatre experience alone would've contributed so much to creating un unforgettable s3 mule. (i mean he still might come back if my first theory is correct so i'm holding out hope for now). we know how these things are handled and how the studios/social media interfere in these things.

edit: including @vagitterian reply -> Swedish media reported on sexual harassment allegations against Persbrandt in 2022, just after he was just cast in Foundation. It was discussed in the Sex Education subreddits as well as Fauxmoi before. Maybe that's why.

i'm not sure about the trailer? obviously i'm excited we've finally got a release date, but the trailer itself didn't reveal much of anything and i was missing my old man dusk too much.

i'm glad about gaal's new love interest. obviously we know nothing about him for now, so all i can say is i can't wait to see how that's going to affect the gaari dynamic. i'll say more when we actually meet him - character writing is generally the show's forte so... fingers crossed. also gaal is jumping off a ship let's gooooooo.

we only got a glimpse of bayta falling to the ground during an attack/battle (?) and i think we can hear her voice narrating in the trailer (pretty sure the subs are mistaken and some of the lines are actually delivered by bayta, not gaal); toran... well mostly we've seen his tits and the mule fucking with his mind, and i'm not familiar enough with his character in the books to comment on the few glimpses we've got. mostly i'm hoping for hober/constant references since they're supposed to be their descendants.

i have no idea what's up with white jesus brother day or how long it's gonna take demerzel to assassinate this one. speaking of demerzel i need to hear her voice right now immediately.

[gingergofastboatsmojito]

Let's put the ship in partnership, shall we? - Extended version

Recipe to get this LONG-ASS meta-post: Be a Sydcarmy truther. Be impartial. Be open-minded. Be patient. Be super thorough with the embedded links 🔗, which are all pieces of this puzzle I've been putting together here and working on for months. There's a reason why this version is EXTENDED.

Bon apetite!

I don’t think I’m making myself clear enough when I say, when I pray, when I demand, that Syd stands by Donna Carmy at 🔗this, his darkest time, not to “fix” him, because obviously, OBVIOUSLY!!! that’s not her responsibility, but because he will lose the will and the strength to fix himself if she leaves him quits. All he does, right and wrong, he does it for her at this point, in his own twisted way. She's his driving force at this given moment in time. Full stop.

And even when he's the only one who can fix himself, it should be even more obvious to anyone with a pair of functioning eyes that he can't do that alone. There is no way on Earth. Yet right now, he is alone. Very. And he continues pushing everyone away from him, even Syd. But he only pushes her because he's convinced her presence is unwavering. And it actually is. He read her right. Usually, addicts hurt those they love the most, the most. And as they do that, they hurt themselves. Carmy is a textbook case. She will walk if she has to, he knows, but he trusts she won't, and at the same time, he's terrified she will if he fails her again. 🔗 Carmen Berzatto is capable of that kinda oxymoron. And more.

As Richie said: "he's locked in a prison of his own making". He read him to filth. LOL!

Syd is the only one who can change that. She's the twist 🔗 in his plot.

*(I've been saying this 🔗since S2, BTW in about 20 posts, tyvm).

Now, Syd is going through her own shitstorm and has a bunch of unsolved issues too, that she deals with or not, differently. She's a very layered character too who's caring but also as self-destructive as Carmen Berzatto. She is fearless but super insecure as well, she's not a workaholic but she's an overachiever and a perfectionist, she's a G woman with a huge heart, full of juxtapositions, just like him. And they chose each other, 🔗probably for all the reasons I just mentioned, knowing what they were getting into all along. They are adults. And they are brilliant. Not that emotionally intelligent, but brilliant nonetheless. He, in particular, has the emotional intelligence of a cactus and Syd is more advanced in that department, but not that much, she's Fort Knox, yet very kind. Precisely that duality of hers, combined with her incredible talent and hardworking nature is exactly what drives Carmy crazy and inspires him because she has what he feels he lost along the way: A HEART. Maybe deep down he even envys that about her... that wouldn't be a stretch. He's capable of that kinda oxymoron. And more.

Their "partnerSHIP":

They are not you, they are not me, they are just 2 people who need each other on an existential/evolutionary level to work on their issues and to grow as people through their partnership. They need to do the inner individual work but they won't do it unless they are together, that's the conflict/loophole of their love story.

The fact that this love story happens in a professional context is just that, context. The point is that it affects them on a personal level and that's exactly what they need because they need to make personal changes to grow as human beings, not as chefs. Although the professional growth, in their case, will be a by-product anyway, of course.

The Root of this conflict is: (we're getting soooo close, BEAR with me, chefs)

In Carmy’s world, deep inside, all that exists is Syd. He's not capable right now of any other level of reasoning. We could say he's incapacitated. Temporarily. She's his compass. This will pass. He will find himself again after this crisis. But not without her. The end of Carmen Berzatto.🔗

He doesn’t really care about the rest of the team, or about Claire for that matter except for the muddy guilt 🔗and frustration he feels surrounding their short-lived relationship, and he most definitely doesn’t care about himself in any way shape, or form other than being Syd’s star bearer. He has re-defined his entire identity based on the life goal of getting HER that bullshit star, out of love for her. She's HIS STAR🔗. That love that he feels for her is self-destructive (which he in some capacity knew all along before embarking on this journey with and for her) and yet he willingly and freely chose it, although he fought it at first. Well, quite frankly it's not like he put up too much of a fight...

Yes, he went about it all wrong BECAUSE he is an asshole:

He went all Donna about it and that rendered him Machiavellian, which means that according to him, his end of getting that star for Sydney, justified ANY means. He's a man of extremes, not of middle ground. Wanna take a walk in his hell? Be my guest → click here.🔗

BTW: That mind is actually Storer's because Carmy is based on him, as I mentioned here.🔗

Syd didn’t make him do that, of course, she inspired him. His love for her inspired him and still does. Yet he is not brave enough to admit it fully, he just sublimates it in this toxic way because it’s the only way he knows how to show it, for now. 🔗And of course, it’s not the right way. That’s exactly my point, he is wrong and if she walks he will NEVER get it right. She’s his muse.

Baby-sit vs Support - not the same thing

Does that mean that Syd has to sacrifice herself for him and his toxic ways of showing affection? Absofuckinglutely not! All Syd has to do is be there, set healthy boundaries because she’s the only one he listens to, and stand up for herself to show him, like only she knows how to, what’s right, and what's wrong. Sounds a lot like baby-sitting, or mothering, I know. But in this case it's called: SUPPORTING, because he's in need and they are partners. While he can be a piece of shit, as Syd is perfectly aware of, this is not a permanent state, it's a crisis and if it was the other way around, he would try to help her, and she would not let him. Because that's what they do, that's their dance. She knows how to ask for help, but prefers not to. He just doesn't know how to, and she's the only one who understands him well enough to provide it anyway and he accepts it from her, and from her only. If you don't get that nuance of their relationship, I'm sorry to break it to you, but with all due respect: you don't get THEM.

We are now even closer to the whole point I am trying to make -thanks for your patience-

Only if she chooses to prioritize their relationship over taking the risk of repeating this same pattern elsewhere with another chef, at another restaurant, for more money and the same role, no promotion, as I went over → HERE, 🔗she will be helping herself AND Carmy. "And" is the operative (and inclusive) word here. The other scenario requires the use of the EXCLUSIVE term "or" and that would be OC for her. And for me, TBH, but this is not about me.

We've reached the key point to really getting it YAY!→ The C word

There is a certain level of codependency here at this point of their relationship, yes. I hope you've noticed. It's inevitable. And that’s what happens in partnerships. Both parties depend on each other at times because they have to rely on each other, it’s not necessarily wrong or unhealthy although it can be, the line is very fine and it can easily be crossed. Yes. That’s another risk. And that is why real and healthy partnerships require adult people and compromise. The end result of a healthy codependent partnership is synergy. Very much like in a functional family dynamic. Compromise and family are intertwined concepts, not just when children are involved. This show is about love and found families.🔗

If the fine line is crossed and the codependency turns inadaptative/dysfunctional, then that desired synergy that allows all parties involved to mutually benefit each other, turns into chaos, where everyone hurts each other. War, which usually leads to the dissolution of the bond. They, and I mean The Bear's team, not just Syd and Carmy, are currently dancing on that line thanks to Carmy, but have NOT crossed it yet. Why? Because they fucked up on the Vibrant Collaboration part.🔗

The end of S3 left them standing on the verge of choosing to go for the synergy and mutual benefit (this will require compromise and hard work from both and everyone else around them) or for the dissolution of their bond (this will entail pain and loss for all parties involved and no one will gain anything but a lesson learned on what not to do, even if Syd leaves The Bear behind, and I don't just mean the restaurant, goes to work for Shapiro and wins a bullshit star). I hope we're clear on that. That latter scenario does not automatically guarantee Syd's happiness or success and it certainly implies Carmy's destruction. That’s why it’s really hard for me to wrap my mind around why some “Sydcarmy truthers” prefer that alternative. But again, this is NOT about me. This is about the fact that given the current circumstances, he will be a hopeless case without her. And she can guess it, that's ONE of the reasons why she can't make herself quit. The other is this one. 🔗(*check RB notes about the Joker). And I'm going easy on this one because I'm fully disregarding the assumption that Syd is down bad for Carmy but, just like him, she doesn't wanna feel that, she is in denial, and doesn't allow herself to feel it, not because she deems herself unworthy of his love in her current state unless she wins a Michelin star but because she's absolutely aware that Carmy Berzatto is a piece of shit. But yet she fucking loves him.

The catch:

But here’s the catch: whilst both choices are valid and should be respected if made freely, only one of them takes into account the current disparity of one of the parties involved at this time. In other words: The timing (that's why I don't oppose her going to Noma with Luca eventually or leaving The Bear to open her own dream spot, and I'm 100% sure that even though Carmy wouldn't be too crazy about it, he wouldn't oppose either, if she's happy. I actually expect the Sydluca/Noma storyline to unravel in S4 ). BUT right now Carmy is at his lowest. So it's just wrong, it's just not the right time. It can't happen on a show called THE BEAR, he has to fulfill his redemption arc and can't do it without her at this time.

On the bright side, there’s no way but up from here, but he is at his absolute worst right now because he has EVERYTHING to lose, a lot of people who depend on him and not enough energy left in him to start over if he fails. Syd, on the other hand, still has it in her, whether she stays or leaves. She’s fucked right now too, which is her responsibility and not Carmy’s -even though Carmy definitely contributed- but Syd, as she is, can still make it anywhere. Whether she stays or leaves, she is still at a good enough point where she can still work it out, no matter what she chooses. Unlike Carmy.

And even when Carmy’s best interests are not 100% her responsibility, they are part of that partnership she chose to be in, she cares about it, and it’s in her nature to want to nurture, support, and inspire those around her and right now who needs that the most is... you guessed it: Carmen Berzatto, the piece of shit. Not at her expense, of course. That is the part of the job SHE has to do in herself so this “support” doesn’t entail her own harm. That's HER arc.

There is a way in which both can win and Carmy doesn’t have to lose so she can choose herself. That way is based on full and mutual honesty, open communication, compromise, and patience. It is NOT based on bottling up feelings, not voicing needs, not setting boundaries and reinforcing them when needed, resenting each other, and most importantly: denying emotions, which is what they both excel at. Because emotions are on the left-hand column🔗. Their emotions are the game changers. Especially when you lead with your heart.

Bonus track: If you think for a second that Carmen Berzatto doesn’t lead with his ❤️, just like Syd does, then you’re wrong. You don’t know him. He might be too much in his head right now, and that is a very dark place, but he's all heart, which makes him extremely dangerous when he crosses over into his dark side. Hence → S3. And here's another catch: He knew this all along, he knew what getting that bullshit star (for her) was gonna trigger in him, he expected this. He tried to protect her and talk her out of it. But there was no use because they both lead with their hearts. And that is why, no matter what it looks like right now, no matter how many detours they take, they will always end up HERE 🔗.

Summing up: I'm not worried 💅

[imthepunchlord]

Is there anything the show could do to make you go back to watching it?

I... don't really know.

Show wise, ML isn't really for me anymore. I realized that s2 which is why I stopped after it, and only checked out a handful of eps afterward that I was intrigued with enough to see. But everything about it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth and it's just unpleasant.

The ship that is the center stage of the show and is going to get the most priority, I don't like. Why watch a show that's going to heavily focus and care about this ship I do not like. I haven't genuinely liked this ship with no grievances since s1.

The characters are unlikable or it's just unpleasant to watch them.

Character relationships are just a joke or non existent. I can't say anyone in this show are actual friends. There's nothing enjoyable in how characters work off each other, not in a long time.

The hero designs are boring and basic or ugly. Worst offenders are for the girls and whatever the heck Gabriel has going on when he unifies with more than one Miraculous.

The lore is incredibly lacking or confusing.

The writing makes weird choices I don't like or agree with. Some of which goes into really icky territory and I got to wonder wtf are they thinking.

The clear bias and toxic messages are irritating.

Powers are all over the place, are frustrating, or are confusing.

The kwamis, which easily could've been the most fascinating part of the show, are just disappointing and easy to cut out. Heck, they actually get the least amount of content. I search up a specific kwami to look at fanart and I just get the holders.

Even if I hear that s6 is really good, I don't know if I would want to watch it. S6 is going to work off the mess that is the prior 5 seasons. A lot of which did stuff I don't like.

And this show would make me so mad and frustrated I had to step away a good few times.

At this point, my only enjoyment with ML is just thinking of ideas and exploring them. One of the big frustrations is that this concept is just so full of potential and it's so easy to get creative and experimental with it, and what we got was their lazy slop. And it's really that frustration that just keeps reeling me back.

If I was to come back to ML the show, I would wait for a reboot personally. I would be more open to watching it rebooted. I want this current version of it to just stop. Cease to be. Try again with a fresh start, a more defined vision, and have some actual consistency.

[thereisnolumos]

darklina thoughts: I wanted to get into the shadow and bone Fandom(books and show) because of the amazing gif set of the darklina kiss I saw

Like who are these two that are sharing such a beautiful kiss. And look so aesthically pleasing together with the darkness and light vibes. I was so excited to find out who these two were because these kind of ships are my everything. Than I find out and 😨😱😤😠🤬!!!!! It was like running full steam a head with tons of excitement and crashing face first into a wall when I find out everything about this Fandom. Both about the books and show. The author and this beautiful ship. And I'm like God why do authors do this ship. Tease us with everything we want and the full potential. But than do a completely one 80 and waste are time on things we don't care about, or find insulting or toxic, and tells us are tastes are dumb and toxic. So now I just read fics and look at beautiful art of Darklina and the potential they could have been. It's just so annoying because this stuff happens all the time!!! And don't get me started on what I heard about the author. I don't know if their true. And wish I could find out real stuff about her. But if it is. God she is so messed up for doing this to us.

I only got in the fandom bcs I randomly saw a teaser for the first season and Ben Barnes was there in all his dark glory. I knew nothing about the books, but the way that show was promoted I was expecting the epic dark romance, villain who’s not really a villain gets the girl all the vibe. Plus cool world build and complicated detailed story overall.

I got none of that.

That show was interesting and hopeful for the first 5 episodes (we will always have 1x05🖤). It wasn’t as detailed and complex as I expected, but it had potential and the main pair - the one they based THE ENTIRE promotion on by the way - was having one of the most fiery and spark inducing chemistry I’ve ever seen on the screen, so I kept my hopes up for the overall plot and focused on them. And then… then they backpedaled SO HARD on everything that made that show interesting for the broad audience, I wonder how they didn’t give themselves a whiplash… though considering the horrible quality of s2 they probably did

Though I didn’t like the way s1 ended, I still thought there is hope, and “we need a conflict for our main pair, I guess”. I truly, wholeheartedly believed that creators and writers of the show are not complete idiots and know how to read the room and what the most of their audience is there for, so that’s what they’ll deliver. But oh my, how wrong I was.

The second season is downright unwatchable with how horrifyingly terrible it is. I only suffered through the entire thing for Ben, who, bless his heart, tried his hardest to deliver the complexity and depth of his character, who he only agreed to play if they “won’t make him a cardboard villain”. And they did exactly that in s2, or tried to, bcs Ben Barnes and his talent didn’t let them, despite all their efforts. The rest of the cast I guess didn’t have enough experience to fix the worst writing imaginable with their acting, so most of the characters became absolutely bland and uninteresting and SO IDIOTICALLY STUPUD, I yelled at them constantly, scaring my cat the entire time.

Also, as much as I understand it from exploring the fandom, the creators and writers of the show are die hard fans of the Crows, and they don’t actually like Alina’s trilogy at all. So… why didn’t they just do the books they wanted I’ll never know. Instead, they forced the Crows in the plot they were never a part of (making all of them okay with selling a girl to slavery in the process. Despite one of them being the former slave and the other one being the one who got her out of it… make it make sense, I beg of you), in the second season they wasted SO MUCH time on their plot lines that 1)didn’t matter one bit for the overall story, 2)were absolutely uninteresting to everyone who isn’t the Crows fan beforehand. In the end we got half-assed Alina and Aleksander’s story with half-assed Crows’ story. They should’ve just made the Crows show, without touching Alina and Aleksander

I haven’t read the books, but from what I gathered in the fandom, though still committing the same sin of putting all the promotion and marketing into the Dark romance trope without actually delivering on it, and force feeding the fans one of the worst and most toxic pairings ever with Malina, at least Alina and Aleksander’s characters weren’t made so cardboard and stupid, and there was tragedy in their story, not the shit that they gave us in s2. Though I absolutely DESPISE the fact that Alina looses her powers in the end and goes on to live Mal’s dream life… Like WHAT THE FUCK?? What levels of internalized misogyny do you need to have as a woman, to write this plot line for your female protagonist???? I can’t.

On Mal’s toxicity: at least that made him a fleshed out character in the books. Absolutely horrible one, how could the author make him “get the girl” is beyond me. But at least he had a personality, however terrible one. In the show, I guess understanding, that no one would root for that asshole, they removed his toxicity almost completely, but that made him as bland as stale porridge. There wasn’t ANYTHING left on his character. At all. How anyone could’ve rooted for him I absolutely refuse to understand. Any woman deserved better than Blade😈

I don’t know anything about Leigh Bardugo, except for the fact that she butcher my native language and makes me furious. If you don’t know the language at least on a medium level, perhaps don’t use it in your books. Or at least hire someone who does. The way she butchered it, I’m not sure she even used Google translate…

So yeah, I’m with you on only reading Darklina fanfics and admiring fan art. I’m not at all sad that they cancelled the show, and I’m even giddy that those creators and writers didn’t get their wet dream of the Crows spin off. They didn’t deserve it after the shit they pulled in the second season. I do hope that they won’t ruin any other shows in the future. I am sad for the actors, who deserved much better and who were actually good at their parts, while the writing was okay. Poor Archie Renaux suffered the most, his character didn’t have good writing at all, not for a single scene. I hope we’ll see more of all of them.

And we need Ben and Jessie to do a film together. Preferably a rom com, but I’m not picky. Just that their characters are together. Such chemistry can’t be wasted

[vortexstars]

In the osc it fr feels like all anyone can stomach is the least depth to a character possible like I've been trying to defend taco for YEARS like no girl her looking sad whnenmic left her ISNT MANIPULATION???? THAT'S CALLED BEING SAD???? SHES ALLOWED TO HAVE EMOTIONS???

Also i remember so many people being mad about Nickels joke when blueberry was voted out like "yeah dude just be nicer" and i saw so many people just so angry at that because it was "hypocritical" like yeah... That's the joke. That is the POINT of the joke that is what allows it to land it wouldn't hit coming from someone that's genuinely nice

Also female characters who hang out witj men get watered down SO often to that guys (girl) friend i see it all the time ESPECIALLY WITH CANDLE AND SILVER SPOON like guys please can we not. Can she be an indépendant character

Sorry for the (second) rant in your inbox i have big feels about media literacy in the osc

no dw i have strong feelings to people who lack media literacy

ive only been in the osc for almost 3 years and saying that ive always felt sympathetic with taco is an understatement , you can clearly see that shes genuinely upset that mic left and not because she wanted to use her more, but because she actually LIKED her. She genuinely did care about her and this episode really does prove it and so many other things, this woman literally fucking SHATTERED when being too overwhelmed and people still have the gull to say that she was being manipulative, like please watch the episode again and maybe the entirety of s2 along with it

Also i dont remember the nickel joke very well but i do remember people being pissed off about it like it wasnt just a joke

and oh my GOD DO I NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS, one of the main things that contribute to the mischaracterization of female osc chatacters is when they are involved with another character that just so happens to be a man, there are so many examples to this and i think the worst one is the silver n candle arc. I have made multiple threads about these two separately and they both have their own story arcs and their own personalities. Most people [ or shippers ] will just make the two of them be associated with eachother and call it a day, and it pisses me off cause their character are an important thing to understanding the character itself — without knowing or not caring ab those arcs and making those two just be with eachother could lead to even worse mischaracterization from there.

I cannot express enough on how many times ive made posts like this on other websites and it still happens, they are more than just '' Silver having a crush on candle and candle is just the helpful one '', they are so much more. Now dont get me wrong silvercandle is my absolute most favorite ship ever and i will defend them with my life, but ive seen people who hate it make both characters so mischaracterized i start to think that they are just talking about an oc. Even people who like them still sometimes just make them be associated with eachother and claim to know them like their bedroom, they are so much more than that — romantic or platonic, they still have their own story arcs that correlate with eachothers arcs

theres more female characters that get mistreated but ive only seen silvercandle get the worst treatment, every character is their own chatacter with their own goals, own beleifs, own arcs.

i think you can tell who my favorite character is

[lost-inanotherlife]

Lost S2 Rewatch - spontaneous, random thoughts (might change my mind)

Kinda dig Ana Lucia. I remember that, back when the show first aired, I didn't like her but I guess I've changed my mind. I like the fact that she seems to be unapologetic, she's leader-material and she knows it and acts as such but she's not smug about it. She does bad things, she knows it and doesn't hide behind excuses. Honestly? So far she's cool.

The introduction of the Tailies was a ballsy move, we haven't seen our fearless leader Jack for 6 episodes now (I've reached S2E7) and the show is still compelling and exciting. We meet five new characters and their introductions are different from those of the main characters in s1: it's fast, no flashbacks, direct. The comparison works because I find myself wanting to know more even though I wasn't even given enough screen-time to care about them. Ballsy, well-executed professional writing move.

I like how the first 3 episodes are taking place on the same night/day as the last 3 episodes of S1 (or 2 episodes, according to how you're watching "Exodus"). We see the events from different perspectives and this method of storytelling sometimes is very effective, sometimes I personally find it a bit boring. This doesn't happen here at all.

Hurley is such a more interesting character when you rewatch the show! I think that he's the only character (so far) where knowing things in advance makes him better and I'm like "hell, yes, why didn't I see that before?". Like, when I first watched the show I thought that Hurley was the "comic relief" of the series. He kinda is, but he's also not and so much more? Upon rewatching the show you can clearly see why he was the right leader and the best protector of the island. Gotta love The Dude.

I've said it once, I'll say it again (and forever): JUSTICE FOR SHANNON. I'll protect her against anyone. Her centric episode "Abandoned" is okay but I find it very distasteful that her death is framed as manpain fodder for Sayid. Also, she has sex at the beginning of the episode and at the end she dies? Ugh. Again, distasteful, it felt a little like she had completed her function so off we go. My girl deserved so much more :(.

Speaking of Shannon, her relationship with Sayid is meh. I actually liked it 20 years ago but thank god I've definitely changed because it's a badly written ship. I mean, I can see that the two characters have potential, but there's no "meat" behind it. The story is not "built", it's just there. One day Sayid finds her attractive and that's it. The two of them have spent like 1 afternoon together and all of a sudden the guy creates a romantic location on the beach so they can have sex. Shallow. And also, let's never forget that these people are on a fucking island full of things AND people that want to kill them, but okay, let's go beachsex-camping somewhere!

I'm an anti-Charlie. It really costs me a lot to say this because he was my favorite twenty years ago and now I can't stand him. I've reckoned that if I have to spend more time trying to make excuses for him while I actively don't like his actions... well, it's wasted time. Let's call is as it is: Charlie's a dick. That scene after Locke was holding Aaron and Charlie was jelaous or, I'd rather say, unhingedly possessive? Brrr, chills bruh and the wrong kind. Dude, you're cringe.

[saveahorserideaneddie]

breathe friend you know tommy is bones in s8, he's not bucks endgame the reliable leaker has literally been clear about that. don't believe anything that psychopath on twitter says, she's literally insane.

oh trust me i don’t believe anything she says lmao

and i know the leaker said that about tommy but tbh that dont mean shit about whether or not they are actually going to fix any of the fuckery they pulled in s7

just because they are allegedly giving tommy the boot doesn’t mean they’re going to actually get their shit together and stop ship baiting us; so like i said until they actually start to give us any indication that they’re going to stop mistreating poc characters for cheap drama and that storylines are actually going to be thought out beforehand rather than thrown together because “ehh, this is good enough” i’m not going to be wasting my time. these shows are meant for entertainment. if i am not being entertained by what’s being done, why am i going to waste my energy on it?

i dont say this to sound snippy or rude, anon, and it is NOT directed at you specifically (and i really hope it doesn’t come across that way i am just bad at emoting through screens 😭😭), i promise, but sometimes it feels like people who try to “talk me off the ledge” in these anonymous asks don’t really look at what i’m actually saying and they jump to the conclusion that i’m just making shit up to panic about, but the fact of the matter is that everything i talked about in that post is something that could feasibly happen… all of buck’s love interests up to this point have not been narratively satisfying; developed or not. so even if tommy does end up going like the leaker said (again not getting my hopes up because things change at the drop of a hat in this business) that doesn’t mean they will actually follow through with queer eddie or that any other potential love interest for buck will be in any way narratively satisfying. i’m not saying i’m closing on buddie, because i will love them and ship them together when my body is six feet under, but after the burning dumpster that was s7 post the cruise ship arc, i don’t have the faith in tim that i had before.

at the end of the day, yes abc is a more accepting and inclusive studio, but it is still that: a studio. a corporation. a money maker. they don’t actually give a fuck about the fans. i have seen time and time again that these shows do this cat and mouse shit with a queer ship and then never follow through, even if one of the characters involved does end up being confirmed queer. maybe it was a little harsh to say that tim is only interested in money, but after how little thought and care he put into last season it’s hard not to feel like he actually cares about the fans who have stuck with this show since the beginning.

i’ve mentioned before that i have stuck with this show for seven years. i have shipped buddie since s2. i witnessed the s4 buildup and subsequent letdown in s5 and 6. I know that was not tim’s fault specifically, that KR and Fox both fucked the show over

but that does not mean that tim won’t also change his mind— we saw evidence of that last minute with all the rewrites that were happening post mid season hiatus with s7. he found out he’s getting another season so he changed the plot of 7b, and if they get a season 9, all the more reason to keep dragging the buddie bait hype along with now true intentions to follow through?

i reslly really reallly wanted to trust tim again especially after the potential he had with the shooting arc in s4, but sometimes it feels like he himself has closed on buddie since then unless it’s done as a last-ditch effort to save the show… again, i’m not saying i think bt is going to be endgame, but just because they aren’t endgame doesn’t mean buddie is and that is what pisses me off. that we will have been waiting for nearly a decade for this ship to go canon, we will have gone through so much hate and vitriol from the bt stans, we have been teased and built up time and time again (even in s7), we have been bait and switched with no satisfactory outcome, and we have been laughed at the entire time, and there is a possibility that none of it will actually pay off, all because some white man gets to call the shots and he’s shown that all he cares about is melodrama and trolling people online to stir up shit.

anyway, i didn’t mean to hijack this post, anon, but i wnated to further expound upon what exactly my point was in my original post, which was not that i believed Bree’s delusions or that the helicopter pilot is buck’s endgame, but that i won’t trust tim to actually go through with anything promising until i start to see actual concrete irrefutable evidence of it.

[haylijahtilldeath]

What are your top 5s in anything TVDU related? (Characters, ships, friendships, familial bonds, episodes, etc.)

Ooh, my first question. Thank you for asking!

Even though I've watched tvd first, but I prefer the originals to it. So, my answer is going to be mostly about them.

I'm going to do the characters separately.

First, characters from T.O

Elijah Mikaelson (because he was the calm before the storm, I don't know how to describe him, he was just so resilient and holding onto his brother when the entire world could only see a monster in him, and for all his complex layers.) and Hayley Marshall (because she was a BAMF, the best mother you could have) fighting for first place, but none of them can win.

Camille O'Connell because she was such a ray of sunshine. (Caroline stans do not come at me, this is about two characters who have literally never met.)

Freya Mikaelson was such a badass.

Klaus Mikaelson because he had the best retorts and sarcasm.

Gia because she was so down to earth about everything. (Putting her after Klaus feels so wrong lmao.)

Now, Tvd characters. I can't conjure any explanation for them.

Caroline Forbes

Enzo St. John

Stefan Salvatore

Rayna Cruz

Rose from S2

Ships.

Haylijah, because have you seen them? The chemistry, the compatibility, the love and all the respect. (S5 never happened.)

Bonenzo because they were so good together, and Enzo actually loved Bonnie and didn't spend his time using her.

Klamille, because Camille could see beyond 'evil Klaus' and understood him like no one else ever did, and Klaus saw so much light in her, and he cared about her.

Steroline because they were also good together.

Gialijah because they had so much chemistry and there was just something about them

Friendships.

Caroline & Enzo, because he stepped up for her and they had something special about them.

Camille & Vincent, because they related to one another after all damage they got because of the Mikaelson family, and they made something good out of it.

Freya & Hayley because they spent years together raising Hope, and they bonded so well.

Stefan and Lexi because they do supportive besties better than anyone.

Bonnie and Damon because they have managed to go from sworn enemies to best friends.

Familial bonds.

Hayley and Hope. No one does mother and daughter better than them.

Elijah and Rebekah. We saw so many times how Elijah cared for her and how she looked up to him. I believe he was her favorite brother, even if the show wanted to make us believe it was Klaus.

Marcel & Davina. They're not family by blood, but the way he was her family more than her real family and tried to protect her meant so much.

Elijah and Hope. We did not get much of them, but they had so much potential. If the show didn't completely destroy Elijah to redeem Klaus, we might have seen him be the best uncle out there.

Freya/ Rebekah and Hope. These aunt/niece relationships were so good. Rebekah cared for her for months, and kept her safe, and Freya raised her with Hayley and taught her so much.

Finding episodes that I genuinely love from beginning to end is difficult.

TO S2E9: The Map of Moments. We had family, we had bickering and we had love.

TVD S3E14: Dangerous Liaisons. We had a ball straight out from a fantasy, do I need to say more?

TO S1E20: A Closer Walk with Thee. It was not a happy episode, but we had our first Haylijah kiss, and it's good enough to be in my top 5.

TO S5E8 : The Kindness of Strangers. As much as I hated S5, but this episode was so good. We saw the Mikaelson family reunited, and every time I watch Elijah break down after remembering Hayley's death, I can't help but cry.

TO S1E1: Always and Forever. This feels like such a basic answer, but I love this episode. It was the beginning of an epic tv show, and it's just so nostalgic.

These are the ones you mentioned, and I can't for the life of me think about anything else to rank. Anyway, I am awkward most of the time, and it includes this answer. So, don't judge me too harshly!