#specifically because I have associated it with queerness since I was younger | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

talenlee · 6 months

Text

Gdcn't #1 — Understanding Others

This week, from the 18th to the 22nd of March, it’s the Game Developer’s Conference. This is an event in which Game Developers from across the industry give talks and presentations on what they do and how they do it to their peer group. In honour of this, I’m presenting articles this week that seek to summarise and explain some academic concepts from my own readings to a general audience. In deference to my supervisor, I am also trying to avoid writing with italics in these articles outside of titles and cites.

There’s an association with academic reading that fundamentally, academic writing and thinking is about a disconnected experience of reality that is explicitly not practical or realistic. ‘An Academic Point’ is a term we use to describe a thing that isn’t connected to any kind of realistic experience. I want however to talk to you about an idea from academia that gave me words to describe something I found important for living my life and being a better person. It’s an idea, it’s a tool, it’s a pitfall, and it is, importantly, a story.

It is a story that starts with the technique I use in my research called ‘autoethnography.’

What I do, generally speaking, is work with the academic toolset of autoethnography.

Autoethnography is a process of engaging with an experience, recording that experience somehow, then academically and critically engaging with the recording of that experience. I like to point to a number of forms this takes in general media – movie and game reviews, for example, are autoethnographic texts, where the experience of the reviewer is shared to an audience in a way that seeks to make that opinion a thing people can meaningfully engage with. Autoethnography is powerful for giving writers a way to share individual experiences that are not necessarily in forms that research can conventionally access. Quantitative research is very good at reducing averages and statistical trends out of large sets of data, with larger and larger sets of data being able to have more and more confidence – but how does that toolset handle addressing information that has happened to small numbers of people, and with access to an even smaller number of those people?

I like autoethnography and I like a lot of the researchers who use autoethnography. This is partly because they bring the tool to bear on ideas like the experience of being a closeted queer person or the emotional challenges of being an adopted parent. Partly it’s because it is a form of research that strives to respect the writer as part of the writing, and therefore what they experience and who they are is worth sharing and explaining. You know a little bit about me, hypothetically,

Autoethnography is — well, autoethnography is new. It’s also very old. The term autoethnography has been considered an academically useful term with a specific meaning since 2004, but prior to that its use is ambiguated by the people who were using it. Autoethnography isn’t a recent field, really, nor is it a recent word. If you want to point to the time in history where it first gets coined in the terms of the specific process of academic writing I’m doing, you look at the work of Carolyn Ellis, along with her cohort of fellow storytellers and meaningmakers, in the book Autoethnography: Understanding Qualitative Research, 2015. By this timeline, Autoethnography is an academic discipline younger than Shrek 2.

If you want to step back through the timeline there are earlier works from other cultural writers talking about the idea of autoethnography, but not in those words. Ethnography, the study of culture, is something we’ve been doing for a long time, and by ‘a long time’ I mean ‘pith helmet and shooting people’ times. Autoethnography is an attempt to do this kind of cultural analysis that’s aware of the non-objective nature of the ethnographer. This idea that ethnography is not object is the result of numerous critics of the form, but one critic I want to highlight is a man who is responsible for coining the phrase key to this whole story.

Let’s call him Dwight, for now, because, y’know, that’s his name.

Dwight is responsible for writing the essay I Am A Shaman: A Hmong Life Story With Ethnographic Commentary (1986). I’ve not the text on hand, but that’s not too important here. The important thing is that with the title ‘I Am A Shaman’ the writer positions himself in the middle of the story of Hmong shamanism, set in the context of Hmong refuees in the Ban Vinai Refugee Camp in northern Thailand. Dwight came from Thunder Bay, in Canada, and spent years in this research becoming part of the community, approaching it authentically, and bringing what he could understand from the community in his research. This set something of a trend for this guy – he also worked researching the Chicago tenements, known as ‘Little Beirut,’ and then worked on American attitudes towards the death penalty. Generally speaking, I understand Dwight’s work to be well-regarded, respectful, but also, importantly, deeply involved in the communities he was researching.

In his work, Dwight describes four attitudes towards the other that are problems when writing about culture. He describes them as:

The Custodian’s Ripoff. This is when a researcher appropriates cultural traditions in order to enhance their own projects. Imagine a museum curator who wants something interesting to build their repertoire of artifacts.

The Enthusiast’s Infatuation. This is when a researcher is really into a superficial impression of the culture, which means they tend to ignore the differences between themselves and the other, and speak for them in ways that don’t appreciate the depth of meaning there. It’s fanboying for the culture you’re researching, as it were.

The Curator’s Exhibitionism. This is when a researcher is trying to sensationalise and astonish with what they report, wanting to show the exotic, the primitive, and the culturally remote.

The Skeptic’s Cop-Out. This is when the researcher just gives up and becomes detached from the research, suggesting it’s impossible to learn about, nor perform, as persons who are different from us.

It’s this last one that stands out to me. The Skeptic’s Cop-Out. The idea that while trying to learn about something, you find it too hard to find your own emotional connection with it, you find it too difficult to imagine being another person or a person of another perspective, and just give up and assert nihilistically that these things are impossible. This is a perspective you might see a lot in your everyday, with ‘I just don’t get it’ responses to queer ideas from non-queer spaces. There’s a cousin to it, too, in those queer spaces – you know, ‘cis people can never understand.’

Don’t take this the wrong way, by the way: People saying stuff like ‘cis people can never understand’ are probably basing that on some pretty meaningful personal experiences about not being understood by cis people. That doesn’t mean they’re right though.

I write about trans and gender issues pretty regularly. This isn’t because I am trans and have gender issues — it’s partly because I find them interesting, and I find the way they get talked about rarely intersect with the things about them that I engage with. For me, how to represent a trans character in a game matters a lot – no trans people are going to ask me how to expresss their being themselves in their lives, and nor should they. This got to a point where, a few years ago, someone asked me why I bothered to talk about it so much, because why would I if I wasn’t part of the community? Was it my place?

This is one of the first times I apparently made it clear that I’m bisexual in any space online, because I felt like I was being asked to show my queer papers. It was an unpleasant experience, but it came with it an unstated and slightly sad assumption I could see in the shape of the question:

Why would you try and understand or relate to trans people this thoroughly, if you weren’t one of them?

And that’s messed up, right? That’s a deeply sad assumption to have to deal with in your everyday life? Trans people aren’t the Black Speech or the Pattern Screamers, they’re not something where understanding them poisons your mind. They’re people. They have their own jokes about hoodies and salt licks and bananas just in the same way that tiktokkers have their own jokes about air friers and gotta-hand-it-toing Osama Bin Laden. They are people who have a cultural experience and that cultural experience has both shared signifiers (being trans) and they have unrelated experiences (most of everything in their lives that isn’t part of being trans).

I think as long as people are sharing information about who they are, that is information you can engage with. You can listen and you can ask and you can, if you are willing to, come to recognise why things are the way they are, because none of this is being built out of a magical, or spiritual perspective on reality. You don’t have to feel a thing to understand when someone else tells you how they feel. All it takes is being willing to listen to the people, remember what you’re told, and treat the telling with respect.

Here’s the big thing that sticks in my brain, that makes this list so easy to bring to mind, because it’s such a weird detail. Dwight, the guy who had these really serious thoughts about access to critical and ethical spaces, this guy who wanted us to think about who we were and how we can, if we are willing to try understand one another on a deeper level than these, had the name Dwight Conquergood.

Check it out on PRESS.exe to see it with images and links!

#Academia

6 notes · View notes

100hearteyes · 2 years

Note

Late to the party. Why don’t we like Tár?

Tár is the story of a female conductor who uses her position of power to take advantage of other, younger women in her orchestra.

The predatory lesbian is a common trope of old. I say 'of old', but the truth is it's been less than twenty, thirty years since its usage mostly disappeared from mainstream media.

"But Tár is meant to show that power has no gender." Yes, but they specifically chose a woman who likes women. A very specific, very harmful stereotype. "There are lesbians who sexually harass too." Yes, but we are still fighting the perception that that's more common than it actually is. We are still fighting the perception that being a lesbian automatically means wanting all women and openly lusting after them and disrespecting their boundaries. "Equality also means getting the same villainous roles." Yes, but there is no equality at the minute. How many mainstream lesbian-led movies were there this year? How many Oscar-contending lesbian-led movies have there been in recent years? And most importantly, how many women still get spooked out by finding someone they know is a lesbian and say poisonous shit like 'as long as she doesn't make a pass at me'? How many women/girls still start avoiding a friend because they found out she's a lesbian? There is no equality, there is no equity, there is just a general warming up to the idea of lesbians. And also, and just as importantly, how come you want to pin villainous roles on us when you haven't given any of all those other roles yet? We don't have almost any lesbians in common movie roles. We don't have lesbian superhero protagonist. We don't have lesbian John Wick/Jack Reacher/James Bond. The most lesbianism we had in Disney content until Willow was a two-second kiss in SW9, some gritty, vague couple in the tv show with the dude from Zero Rogue One (can't be bothered to look up the name), and a couple random ladies who hold hands (?) for two seconds in Finding Dory. We don't have lesbian mother who hunts the people who kidnapped her daughter. We don't have lesbian Crazy, Stupid, Love or lesbian Top Gun or lesbian gangster movies or lesbian Irish farmers living their best life or lesbian crime solving or lesbian political movie or lesbian Serious Movie™. Queer people in general are still mostly stuck with conversion therapy and coming out movies, and for lesbians in particular, the blue-filter, dirty-nails period pieces. There's a subset of teen romantic comedies showing up now, which is awesome, but it's still very indie-adjacent (I love indie movies, don't get me wrong, but I'm talking about the need for mainstream content, specifically). So no, the work is by no means done yet. Equality can't be an argument, because we have NOT been given equal roles. We are still at an era where our main character trait is being queer/a lesbian (one of the most satisfying series I watched recently in that regard was a French comedy called Détox (Netflix) where one of the two main characters is a lesbian but it's just presented as a fact of life and not a character trait, which I loved - even though the show itself is not great lol).

And then in comes Tár, where a lesbian's main character trait is being a sexual predator. Where a lesbian's character trait is the arguably most harmful stereotype associated with queer women. Delightful. When we start seeing regular characters in regular films and 'oh yeah, and they're queer', when sexuality becomes more of an afterthought in a character's trait map (sexuality is never an afterthought in real life, but we need that level of normalcy and acceptance and, yes, equality in the media to help effect positive change in the real world too), then we can have movies like Tár. Not right now, when it can still do so much damage.

TL;DR - Tár is a movie that reawakens, feeds into, and perpetuates the profoundly harmful stereotype of the predatory lesbian, at a time when general common sense is at its most brittle and bigots are eager to find new/more reasons to witch-hunt innocent people who just want to live their lives and be happy.

#ask #anon

53 notes · View notes

altar-of-ace · 1 year

Text

🕊️Beliefs I have about the deities I follow🐓

Disclaimer: This is all UPG, it is not backed up by historical or cultural evidence.

Aphrodite 🌹:

She is a constant presence, I feel like she is always around me in some sense. Even though I haven’t worshipped her for very long, I feel a strong connection with her.

She’s helpful when it comes to grief. As a goddess of all types of love, I find that grief is a part of that, and I pray for comfort from her when I find myself grieving.

I associate her with jasmine, perhaps because when I was younger I went on holiday to Cyprus and there was a jasmine tree where we stayed (so now the scent reminds me of Cyprus and Greece), but I also think it’s a romantic scent.

Flaming roses are some of my favourite imagery to associate with her.

I have one specific tarot deck that seems to connect with her (the Modern Witch deck if anyone’s interested).

She is a protector of queer and trans people. Admittedly, this is partially backed up by history (see: Aphroditos) but I think it’s a strong aspect of her.

Cerridwen 🌾

She’s less present than Aphrodite; she seems to take a backseat until I need to call on her. She seems to have the presence of a wise mentor figure, which I find comforting.

I see her as a home and hearth goddess, since the cauldron is her main symbol, which historically would’ve been used to cook food, wash clothes, along with other household chores.

I associate her with the colour black, perhaps because she is also commonly associated with the moon, as well as dark green (though I’m not sure why).

She is also a protector of trans people (one of her domains is rebirth and transformation…see where I’m coming from?). Yes, I’m well aware that I’m biased about this, but also I don’t care.

#aphrodite #aphrodite worship #cerridwen #cerridwen worship #upg #🌹#🌾#🔮

13 notes · View notes

bethhiraeth · 2 years

Text

so i just had a thought

we know that will is going to be the main character of the next season, and barring him dying we can assume that means him getting a happy ending. and since (romantic) love and relationships is a big theme in stranger things, with currently every main character either in a relationship of obviously heading towards one with a specific person, isnt it suspicious that we didn't get introduced to anyone who has even the vaguest possibility to be a love interest for will in s4?

because there were no other canonically queer girls robin's age already in the show, the writers took the time to establish vickie as a character, and to show the potential for a romantic relationship between her and robin.

so why didn't they do this for will? they could easily have shown him becoming close with a boy in california, or another younger hellfire member, or hell, even told us the name of another freshman kid at hawkins high. but they didn't

the way i see it, there are there are only two possible reasons.

will dies or gets an unhappy ending. this would not be a good look. in a show self proclaimed to be about nerds and freaks and outcasts, it just makes no sense and basically defeats the whole purpose of the show to leave one of the only two canonically queer characters dead or unhappy.

will is going to be romantically involved with a character we are already familiar with. is the option that i am inclined to believe, even looking at it completely objectively. and out of all the (very few) characters wills age, i think it is safe to say that the boy he is canonically in love with--who also just happens to constantly be associated with rainbows and closets and such--is really the only choice that makes sense

#so yeah #byler is endgame #i thought this was interesting #byler #stranger things #mike wheeler #will byers

20 notes · View notes

pixeljade · 7 months

Text

Okay i've tried like 20 times to word this in a way that'll go as gently as possible but I dont think im gonna be 100% successful bc autism, so im just gonna post this and hope yall dont take it in bad faith:

Theres a lot of younger queers (especially AFAB ones) who still hold TERF ideology and the main reason I see them failing to let it go is because they cant embrace sex positivity.

Which like. I kinda get. I mean if I was AFAB and I grew up with creepy toxic masculine dudes constantly sexualizing me while i was still a child, and the pressures of family to reproduce, and all that shit that comes with being AFAB, i'd probably be scared as shit of sex. Heck I'm a *little* scared of it myself since I was sexually assaulted twice before I was 18! But I feel like thats something to fight against, because like...sex is healthy! Sex is good! Sex is the cause of literally all of our lives!!!!

And I'm not saying you have to have sex or anything, god no, I'm on the ace spectrum. I'm saying you have to be normal about sex, because sex is a part of life! Its ESPECIALLY a part of the queer community! And as much as it should be more welcoming to ace people, I also think demanding it be entirely chaste in order to welcome ace people is stupid and selfish and unhealthy.

"So whats this have to do with TERF ideology though?" Well, reader, I'm glad you asked, because "sex is scary" is the first step in the TERF ideology road! It usually goes "sex is scary" -> "men are scary" -> "anything with a penis is scary". And basically every queer person, at least on the surface, is against this. But under the surface, I find it all falls apart, especially amongst AFAB people. AMAB queers are expected to perform femininity to fit in, and almost always if it is the sort of space where femininity is scrutinized, it is expected that the feminine must also be chaste. I feel like thats no accident. It feels like any mention of sexuality from an AMAB person has them thinking about how we have a penis, such a lewd horrible thing, and then its like...instantly we become less womanly to them. They've let their fear tie femininity to a lack of sexuality, which is a TERF idea!

This also is what leads to more censorship of transfem people. As the recent bannings of transfem people on this site continue, I see a lot of posts saying stuff like "You wouldnt have this problem if youd just stop posting sexual content", even being reblogged by supposed allies.

And you might be thinking "well I'm AFAB but I'm trans, so, this doesnt apply to me. Theyre talking about actual TERFs!" And no, you're wrong. I see transmasc people who pull this shit ALL THE TIME. I recently had a transmasc friend cringe and tell me that the fact that I liked Asumi-chan Is Interested In Lesbian Brothels was a red flag because it was "clearly for the male gaze" which is absolutely TERF behavior. I also see a lot of transmasc people being dismissive of transfem fears in the current trans political situation. Its seemingly almost always a specific brand of UwU cottagecore transmasc that does it too, and a few of them I've even caught admitting they "used to be a TERF" which, I'm glad you no longer associate with them, but I'm telling you you still have shit to unlearn. Dont tell me this is out of my lane, either, its no different from if someone pointed out I still had toxic masculinity to unlearn! Which has happened, and I've examined mine. Why do you find it so unreasonable to examine yours?

Anyways thats all for now. Please do better. I shouldnt have to deal with this shit while the government is trying to kill me.

#watch someone take this in bad faith anyways

5 notes · View notes

practically-an-x-man · 11 months

Note

get to know you asks! orchid, cactus, daffodil, chia, and papyrus :)

Thank you so much!!

answers under the cut since there are a lot of them :D

Get to Know Me Asks!

orchid ⇢ what’s a song you consider to be perfect?

Aw man, that's a tough one since I'm such a nerd for music. I mean, just because I love a song doesn't mean it's technically perfect, and I'm sure there are technically flawless songs that I absolutely can't stand.

Wait, no, this is easy. Bohemian Rhapsody.

cactus ⇢ something you’re currently learning (about)?

I'm currently in trade school for special effects makeup! And on a smaller scale, as soon as Misery is closed I'll be learning how to puppeteer a giant plant for Little Shop of Horrors :)

daffodil ⇢ do you have siblings? if yes, in what ways do you think you’re similar to or different from them?

I have one younger sister. We're both queer and have ADHD, and we share a lot of similar nerdy interests. We used to not get along well (I think because our mom tended to pit us against each other and we ended up taking it out on each other) but as we've grown up we've gotten much closer. We're very different people for the most part - I'm tidier, more artistic, more outgoing and adventurous, I'm more of a movie buff while she prefers video games, and our music tastes are worlds apart - but we've got enough similarities to bond over. I just took her to a convention a couple weeks ago and we had a blast there!

chia ⇢ what’s an inside joke you have with someone else?

My best friend and I have a running joke that I'm constantly cosplaying 3 or 4 different characters at any given time (just bc of how I look and dress). They switched around, but the usual ones were Vi from Arcane, Eddie Munson, Gwen Stacy and Hobie Brown (I look more like Gwen but dress more like Hobie), and comicverse Quicksilver. We also joked that they were going to make a scrapbook comparing me to those characters and put it on our coffee table as a conversation starter.

papyrus ⇢ if you put your ‘on repeat’ playlist on shuffle, what’s the first song that comes up? what do you like about it / associate it with?

The first one that popped up was Bang Bang by Green Day. It's definitely my favorite song on RevRad, I really like the little details like the "hurrah! hurrah!" in the chorus and the drum fill before the final refrain. I don't really associate it with anything in particular, I just like the song. I guess maybe a few of the lyrics reminded me of Polka Dot Man since I first listened to it after the new Suicide Squad came out (specifically the "daddy's little psycho and mommy's little soldier" part)

#my friends!!!#answered asks #ask game

4 notes · View notes

alatismeni-theitsa · 11 months

Note

Coming out story time, Γρεεκ edition. With a plot twist. Sorry for the long ass rant I just didn't know who else to tell my story who would get both the Greek Thinking TM and also be accepting of queer ppl.

Apologies for crude language (i think)?? I cannot describe it in a way that's as eloquent and beautiful as I want.

A. Μαμά.

I came out to my mother descriptively, because I knew if I said a Big Gay Word she'd instantly connect it to what she associates with Gay stuff, and I wanted to get her honest reaction, not what she thinks her reaction should be. And also because I Do Not Know what exactly I am (out of the whole LGBT alphabet, I could be Gay/Les, I could be Bi, I could maybe sort of kinda be trans but I do identify with womanhood in the Greek TM way so I don't think I can call myself NB? Anyway whatever, labels don't matter to me and only make me feel weird when applied to me), so there's that.

Specifically I said "Ma, I'm not only attracted to boys." Because that's the best I can describe my hauntingly persistent bisexuality as haha.

After the initial confusion, the first question she asked was "so you'd want to have sex with a woman?" A question I chose not to answer, one because Μαμά τι στο καλό θες να σου πω τώρα :/ and also because the answer is neither no or yes. It goes beyond just Mm Yes Pussy Nice for me. Reducing it to just that is making my skin crawl just as much as Mm Yes Dick Nice. That's dehumanising for me, I'm sorry. :/ My answer was literally "δεν ξέρω/δεν απαντώ" lmao.

And?? She may have accidentally come out to me too??? Without realising it?????

Because she said three things:

1. "Oh, when I was at your age I went through this phase as well." Which??????????? What does it mean if not the think I'm thinking of??? Ma have you really been in denial/the closet for 50 years?

2. "I was fiercely defensive of gay people when I was younger." Which, YES. As you should μαμά. Only it has created this haunting fear in me that in 30 years time, with "experience", I'll change too and I'll go against my gay brothers and sisters as Ορθοδοξία seems to want. Which I won't. I hope. I can only hope my heart won't change, even if I marry a guy and go ahead and have children of my own. Like... it doesn't make sense, HOW did she change her mind in the first place??? How does that happen to someone? Will it happen to me too?

3. "It's okay, I love you for who you are." In the end, all is good. Even if she thinks she's a phase that I'll grow out of, and probably would not allow me to think about dating/settling with another woman, she's not cutting me out of the will! She still loves me!! It's a win for me. :D

Also she approves of cute gender neutral nicknames because she's always called me that. Like: το ζουζουνάκι, το μαρουδάκι (εννοώντας πασχαλίτσα🐞), το κουφετάκι, κτλ.

I really love her little habits I'm sorry. :')

B. Αδερφούλα

I'll keep it brief because there's not as much to say. She's younger than me so she used to have a very much "oh ew wtf" reaction.

But recently?? She's been treating it like an inside joke??? Like, refering to me as "το τέρας" ή "το αρνί" because she knows I love being affectionately/jokingly called an "it". Also making gay jokes in rare occasions, which I love.

She's a little insecure about being perceived as Λεσβία for her fashion sense, and I regularly assure her that she can wear whatever makes her feel good and not worry about how others see her. Can she rock a γυναικείο κουστούμι like a boss? Fuck yea. Does that mean she's a lesbian just because she looks masculine and pretty at the same time? Fuck no, you do you boo. I know how much you like dressing like this. Nobody's opinion can take it away. And lesbians are not Bad either, so she has a lot to unpack in the future. But I'm still very proud of her and how far she's come since I first told her (long before mom actually) and I absolutely love her to death.

Also she called me a bottom. Shame on her. Gah, siblings.

Honorary entries:

C. Dad

I have yet to come out to him because he often ridicules openly queer people on TV. Like, οικογενειακά watching Eurovision the Maneskin year (every year really) was both hilarious and terrifying.

But, like?? He's also lowkey kinda Bi too in a repressed way? In the way that he's loyal to the woman he married but also making strong bromances when given the chance? It's so funny to me, because he has such a soft and fond expression when talking about friends he has sort of trauma-bonded with (term used loosely, but you know how Dads are).

I could also be just tripping and trying to seek comradeship where there's none because Parents are the ones a child seeks to relate to, but I'd rather not psychoanalyse me rn.

D. Granny

Also can I just talk about Passive Acceptance. Because granny (without knowing about my identity) sometimes refers to me and my sister as παλικάρι in a Gender Neutral sense ("δεν είναι μόνο τα αγόρια παλικάρια" she says. granny is a feminist icon without even trying to be. slay.) and it makes my woman-in-a-vague-sense-i-guess(?) heart do the little proud flutter thing.

Also does it make sense to be a non-binary when it comes to speaking English but sort of a woman (actually yes a woman but also yes and no at the same time because I look and act really soft cheery and feminine but I'm mentally also a τέρας από την άβυσσο και τα τάρταρα :D) when speaking Greek??? It's so confusing, how can I perceive gender in two entirely different ways at the same time what the everloving fuck. What AM I...??

Again, sorry for the jumbled thoughts, my last three braincells are busy rn χορεύing Καλαματιανό.

Γειαα! Παιδια με σκλαβωνετε με τα μηνυματα σας τελευταια 💗 Ειλικρινα χαιρομαι παρα πολυ που εχω εστω και λιγο την εμπιστοσυνη σας - εγω μια ξενη στο ιντερνετ - και μου λετε τις σκεψεις και τις ιστοριες σας! Το εκτιμω παρα πολυ!

Να ξερετε οτι ακομα και αν τυχον διαφωνουμε σε καποια πραγματα, μπορειτε να μου στελνετε μηνυματα. Γιατι ποτε δε θ�� διαφωνησω με το δικαιωμα καποιου να ζει με ασφαλεια και να ειναι ο εαυτος του (το οποιο ειναι ανθρωπινο δικαιωμα ουτως ή αλλως)

Επισης: Δημοσιευω το μηνυμα επειδη δεν υπηρχε καποια δηλωση που ελεγε να μην το κανω. Αν καποιος ομως θελει να μη δημοσιευσω καποιο μηνυμα ή να διαγραψω καποιο μηνυμα, ας μου το πει, δεν υπαρχει θεμα!

Οκ switching off to English!

The whole experience is So Greek, damn! Starting with Mother, telling her Descriptively, her saying that she also liked women "one time", then considering that something is off with Dad as well, then mentioning the accidentally supportive Grandma who gives no shits... Πρεπει να εχουμε ενα σχετικο επεισοδιο στις Οικογενειακές Ιστορίες ετσι για την ταυτιση των τηλεθεατων.

Also, just because I am a nosy dramatic bitch, I would DEFINITELY bring back this conversation if this was my mum, and I would tell her "You know that you like women too, right? You can't just... lose attraction for a whole gender overnight. And they also say that sexual orientation is genetic......" Just to see her reaction and try to convince her 😂 (Don't attempt if you think it won't go well for you! 😅)

I'm really happy about how you handled things with your sis! Being perceived as a lesbian is nothing bad because lesbians are nothing bad! She can rock whatever she wants, like you said! There are lesbians out there who dress like "everyone else", meaning that clothes can potentially be a hint but you can never tell just by the clothes. She has a lot to unpack indeed but with more teaching moments by you, I'm sure she's in good hands.

Oooooh that Dad case! I have a theory here, knowing Greek dads. Perhaps he will be more supportive than you think. Not just because of the things you mentioned, but because he loves you and supports you as his child (from what I read). Greek dads can be ride or die, especially with their daughters. So, if you are confident enough when you tell him, if you look logical and self-aware, he actually might back you up and he might be the most supportive! Parents often dismiss their children because they believe that children are doing it for attention, or because of a whim. Greek dads, I've noticed, want things to be told to them with huuuge neon letters, otherwise they don't act on the situation.

For example, you can be like "Dad, I want to tell you something. (diretor hint: play it sad and worried here, he might feel the need to be protective instead of defensive) I like women too, and I have been feeling it for a long time. I didn't feel it because someone else "indoctrinated" me to it. It's a natural feeling to me. It is not a phase. I cannot switch it on and off like it's a hall light. Most importantly, this is not dangerous for me. I know that you might be concerned and we can talk about it. I just want you to know because this is an important part of who I am."

-- Again, assess the situation accordingly. You definitely don't have to do anything I suggest. And you can make the dialogue more or less cheesy :P In any case, when you talk to him keep in mind that he's an older man who grew up in specific decades and you have to make an effort to set things his way otherwise things will be lost in translation and neither of you will notice.

That's how I got an old aunt to support me. 😂This aunt was the type that says "A woman liking another woman?? Ιησούς Χριστός!!" I noticed what things she valued most (being your own person, having fun in life, not allowing anyone to step on you) and I built my case by telling her that the way I live at the moment gives me all these advantages. I also matched her tone, and I tried to see things from her side, which eventually helped guide her to the mindset I wanted to introduce her to. Sometimes many conversations and subtle hints are needed for this guidance. And they also need to like you because the Greek statement "το δικο μας το παιδι ποτε δεν κανει κατι κακο! το δικο μας το παιδι ειναι χρυσο!" will usually prevail over "A woman liking another woman?? Ιησούς Χριστός!!" 😂

What's more, some parents of queer kids already know what their kids are. They just don't say anything out of fear they will encourage this behaviour. Meanwhile the kids get stressed for decades about how the parents will react, and when they finally come out the parents, the parents are like "eh... we already knew, to be honest. We've been watching you hug and kiss girls since you were like... six. We just hoped that you'd grow out of it, that's why we didn't bring it up. We didn't want you to grow up into a behaviour that would separate you from other kids cause they would bully you and harm you."

The grandma is TOP, by the way! I feel like many older people really know what's important in life. The thought of two women getting married might never be palatable to her but she knows that alienating family members for harmless shit is not where it's at. I love her already!

On the "It's so confusing, how can I perceive gender in two entirely different ways at the same time what the everloving fuck. What AM I…??"

It is a fact that people slightly switch personalities when switching languages. English is a more polite, careful, and tip-toeing language, while in Greece malakas is a word of love if said to your friend 😂 And it's true that cultures perceive gender in different ways. So if you switch to US English and get into their mindset, they have another version of femininity. (Well, the whole country is diverse but I'm talking about the generic, permeating WASP stereotype of the preferred femininity in the US media)

I switch behavior in English too and sometimes I find that I'm more polite and "more feminine" there, which for me... eeeh not my style so much. (English makes us dysphoric, pass it down 😂😂😂😂)

Which brings me to another discussion. I am not nonbinary so I won't want to speculate on what nonbinary is and how it feels. Instead I will speak about a phenomenon sometimes seen in women, who, (sometimes!) need to be seen as a person (who deserves full respect) and not "just a woman" they take up the nonbinary label. Being a woman (or a man) comes with certain expectations and baggage and sometimes as a woman (or as a man) you can totally feel like "fuck it, I want to opt out" or "I already don't do these things and I don't want to ever do them or feel them, so I guess am actually not a woman/man".

I want to stress again that I don't imply non-binary people are this. And I'm not saying that's you. I'm just leaving this out there because it's very harmful when society makes you feel like "failing" at your gender and telling you "you are not a real man/woman because you don't do the X stereotypes", and some people fall for it want to "opt out" of their gender without realizing that in the process they're following the logic of... binaries.

Whatever you identify as should come from the inside, not from what society tells you a woman should be. Because, as you noticed, the Greek and the US society have different notions of what a woman "should be". Heck, you might move to Sweden and find out that out there you feel like Barbie while in Greece you may feel like Babis doing the exact same things😂 Don't rely on society and stereotypes, my humble opinion is. Rely on yourself. And it's okay if you don't have a definitive answer to "what you are". Just live and present as you are most comfortable.

One more thought that I have, which you can also take or leave, is about the sexuality part. I'm not family or a friend, and I don't know you well. I'm not an authority and I don't think my words are scripture. My speculation could perhaps help your brain cells stop χορεύειν τσάμικον γύρω απ τη φωτιά στο δάσος 😂

Sooo... have you considered asexuality?

Heeeaaar me out. Your confusion seems a bit similar to that of people who are asexual but don't know it yet. First of all, there's a difference between aesthetic attraction and sexual attraction. Asexuals usually start thinking they are gay or bi because their sexual attraction to men and women is the same. Zero. 0 = 0 after all 😂

At the same time, asexuals can often feel "off" in their gender and gender expression because automatically they don't subscribe to amatonormative rules and hence, they don't subscribe to gender rules.

An asexual can still have aesthetic attraction to people (just not sexual) and want a romantic relationship. An asexual can have aesthetic attraction to only one gender or many. There's a whole spectrum in asexuality, and there are ace identities like the aegosexuals who are actually not sex repulsed. They are interested in sex as an idea, but they just don't experience sexual attraction for people in real life. (Imagine it like, you like watching football for the rush and the technique, but there's nooo way you want to go down on the field and start kicking a ball.)

Their relationships with their significant others are often "queerplatonic" because the way they perceive gender and companionship (that is not friendship) is queer compared to the rest of society.

I thought about this cause you mentioned the "hauntingly persistent bisexuality", and also because usually the answer to "so you wanna fuck women?" is "eh…yes??" if you are attracted to women in the usual way xD But of course, it might be just your character, that you don't want to focus on sex despite having sexual attraction, and, as you said avoid "dehumanizing" the other. So again, my speculation might be wrong. If you know you are sexually attracted to people, and if you don't have to ask "what is sexual attraction tho?" then that's probably not it😄

Okay, I rambled for too long again but I hope this message has helped you at least in one way. Know that you are already slaying out there and you WILL CONTINUE to slay because you're a cool and kind person with great self-reflection skills.

=================================

Generic message: If my posts have helped you in any way consider buying me a ko-fi 💖

#answered #greek speaks #lgbt+ in greece #queer

6 notes · View notes

fvckyouimaprophet · 1 year

Note

2, 5, 13 for the choose violence ask game 💖

2. a compelling argument for why your fave would never top or bottom

not the top/bottom discourse 😂

i’m not sure if i have a fave at the moment, but i’ll go with sirius. there is so much existing discourse about who tops, who is taller, who is whatever, so, let’s hop in and join the swarm.

well, first of all, sirius is a scorpio, so— (kidding, kidding).

this is so hard because the discourse is so stupid, but okay okay i brought this upon myself.

sirius doesn’t bottom because he internalized the shitty politics of “power dynamics” associated with top/bottom discourse when he was first sexually curious and is a dramatic fucker, so his takeaway was, “i will never bottom because i will always be the one in control/with all the power.”

a lot of the people he hooks up with are like, “oh, okay, sure,” or want to be topped (sirius makes it known), so it becomes a point of pride for him. he’ll casually drop it in conversation, “well, i’ve never bottomed, so i wouldn’t know.”

remus thinks it’s the funniest thing he’s ever seen and pokes fun of sirius’s fragile ego and how very heterosexual of you to view sex this way. but sirius is prideful, and that only makes him cling to it harder.

5. worst discord server and why

i don’t mean this in a “i’m too scared to share” or tame way, but i haven’t been a part of any shitty discord servers. which is probably because i’m only really active on four, and two of which recommended by people on one of the other servers (and another which i co-started and has maybe 15 members).

i have heard stories, but discord overwhelms me, so i have kept it tight. and i lean more onto the older side of fandom discords, so i steer clear of spaces that have a lot of minors or people who are significantly younger than me.

shitty rps, however, i have stories. i got kicked out of a teen wolf rp because of shipping shenanigans. and i have been harassed on glee rps (whom amongst us who was a part of those hasn’t), but i don’t remember the names, and they’re all long deactivated, so i don’t think it’d be juicy.

funny story about glee rp culture, though. there was a blog where people could submit shoutouts to characters, ships, and specific rp servers. sounds like a good idea, but a loooot of drama started because anonymous people would share things like “i hope [this ship] gets back together. i hate [current ship].” or they’d praise a handful of characters in one server, but others would get ignored, and people would quit because they’d feel under-appreciated. oh glee, you really were a swirling vortex of drama.

13. worst blorboficiation

if we’re talking fandom: i am genuinely annoying about this in one of the discord servers, but the blorbofication/baby girl-ifying of certain slytherin marauders-era characters.

i genuinely don’t care if you ship them. i wrote lesbian rosekiller, and i enjoyed the idea of them just being genuinely unhinged and used it to practice writing body horror.

but this culture of “oh they’re so soft” where they all get turned into a gang of hot topic queers who feel like the embodiment of the uwu face has me ???? and then people will act like it’s canon. like anyone who thinks that barty crouch jr wasn’t living out “love simon” is lying to themself.

i get that this has happened since the dawn of time (esp with white male characters). but the characters who get it usually are meant to be torn in some way, are redeemed, or theoretically have the potential to be redeemed.

i just genuinely wish people would acknowledge that it’s wildly ooc. there’s nothing wrong with that! i think it can be really freeing. “this is basically original fiction, but i’m using familiar character names because it makes me feel more comfortable/creative, and i have a built-in audience for my work” is a valid approach to fanfic!

if we’re talking about me: i watch riverdale, and so i’m going with cheryl blossom.

has she murdered an uncle (and pretended to feed him to other members of the family to blackmail them), played doll with her brother’s dead corpse, and tried to surprise her ex by being like, “let’s co-parent your child. i built them a room in my mansion”? absolutely.

but i love how crazy she is. and you can rip her and toni’s batshit toxic relationship out of my cold, dead hands.

"i'm not the same girl who burned down thornhill and cut off [my mom’s] oxygen" "sure you are" 10/10, flawless.

(also janice from the sopranos)

✨send me asks from the choose violence game✨

#ask #anonymous #long post #this is fun!! if you're reading this and debating sending some in please do

1 note · View note

aro-and-tired · 3 years

Text

Loveless Aro Survey: Survey results (part 1)

PART 2

The survey wanted to gather some information on people who use the loveless aro label, as well as the opinions of non-loveless aros on the loveless label. Both groups were given a set of demographic questions, to see if there are any specific trends in who is more likely to identify as loveless. This first post will focus on showing the results of demographic questions, while results gotten on further questions (regarding experiences and opinions) will be shared in a second post, as a single post for everything would be far too long.

At the start of the survey, people were asked if they identify as a loveless aro, with possible answers being “yes”, “no”, or “questioning”. People who answered “questioning” were counted together with people who answered “yes”. This was because, in order to question calling themselves loveless aros, questioning people had to find the term interesting for some reason, and their experiences can also give insight on who feels attracted to the loveless aro term.

As a last note before going in, the demographic results from non-loveless aros will be assumed to be representative of the general aro community and used for comparison. However, there is still the possibility they may not be entirely accurate, since the number of people who participated is still just a fraction of the entire aro community.

There were a total of 1330 participants. Of this, 57.5% (765) said they do not identify as loveless aro. 28.1% (374) said they are questioning using the term, and 14.4% (191) said they do identify as loveless aro. I will now present each of the demographic questions, putting side by side the results given by loveless and questioning loveless aros (which I will shorten to just loveless aros for sake of brevity) versus the results given by non-loveless aros. There will be a tl;dr at the end of this post.

Question 1: Which of the following do you most identify with?

This question allowed people to pick between the options : Allosexual Aromantic, Aroace, Aromid, Non-SAM Aro or Just Aro, Oriented or Angled Aroace, Questioning, and I don't identify with any of these.

Loveless aros

Aroace - 46%

Allosexual Aromantic - 19.6%

Non-SAM Aro or Just Aro - 15.4%

Oriented or Angled Aroace - 10.8%

Questioning - 3.5%

Aromid and I don’t identify with any of these - 2.3%

Non-loveless aros

Aroace - 48%

Allosexual Aromantic - 19.5%

Oriented or Angled Aroace - 16.5%

Non-SAM Aro or Just Aro - 6%

I don’t identify with any of these - 4.4%

Questioning - 3.5%

Aromid - 2.1%

Loveless aros seem more likely to identify as non-SAM aros, and less likely to identify as oriented or angled aroace. The other labels are used roughly by the same amount of people.

Question 2: Which arospec identities do you identify with?

Multiple choices were allowed.

Loveless aros

Aromantic - 90.4%

Arospec - 28.3%

Quoiromantic or WTFromantic - 11.2%

Greyromantic - 10.1%

Aroqueer - 8.1%

Questioning - 8%

Demiromantic - 6.9%

Aegoromantic - 6.4%

Aroflux - 5.8%

Cupioromantic - 4.8%

Nebularomantic - 4.2%

Apothiromantic - 3.9%

Lithromantic or Akoiromantic - 3.4%

Bellusromantic - 2.8%

Arospike - 1.9%

Reciproromantic - 1.6%

Freyromantic - 1.2%

A few other options were added by participants, the most common being arovague and caedromantic.

Non-loveless aros

Aromantic - 81.2%

Arospec - 40.7%

Greyromantic - 16.7%

Demiromantic - 12.8%

Questioning - 11.9%

Quoiromantic or WTFromantic - 11.6%

Aroqueer - 7.3%

Aroflux - 7.2%

Aegoromantic - 6.4%

Cupioromantic - 6.3%

Lithromantic or Akoiromantic - 3.1%

Nebularomantic - 2.5%

Bellusromantic - 2.1%

Arospike - 1.6%

Apothiromantic - 1.3%

Reciproromantic - 1%

Freyromantic - 0.5%

Of the other labels added by participants, the most common were queer, fictoromantic, and romo aro.

Loveless aros seem more likely to identify with the label “aromantic”, and less likely to identify as “arospec”. Loveless aros seem in general less likely to identify with specific arospec labels (the most popular for loveless aros was picked by 11.2% of participants, while the most popular for non-loveless aros was picked by 16.7%). Looking at the relative popularity of specific arospec labels, the main difference seems to be that demiromantic is less used by loveless aros.

Question 3: How old are you?

Note: there was a typo here. The 36-40 age bracket was incorrectly marked as 34-40, but given the number of people who picked this or the previous age bracket is very low this hopefully led to minimal confusion.

Loveless aros

15 or younger - 14.7%

16-20 - 45.8%

21-25 - 27.6%

26-30 - 8%

31-35 - 2.3%

36-40 - 1.2%

41-45 - 0.4%

Non-loveless aros

15 or younger - 13.6%

16-20 - 46.9%

21-25 - 26.7%

26-30 - 8.2%

31-35 - 2.9%

36-40 - 0.9%

41-45 - 0.7%

46-50 - 0.1%

Age wise, there wasn’t any significant difference between the two groups. Keep in mind, however, that because the survey was mainly shared on social media it’s expected for participants to have skewed young.

Question 4: How would you describe your gender?

Multiple choices were allowed.

Loveless aros

Nonbinary - 43%

Agender - 32.2%

Transgender - 28.1%

Female - 21.6%

Genderqueer - 18.9%

Male - 17.5%

Cisgender - 15.4%

Genderfluid - 14.2%

Questioning - 12.7%

Demigender - 10.1%

Xenogender - 8.3%

Arogender - 7.3%

Genderflux - 5.8%

Many other labels were mentioned by participants, the most common being bigender, gendervoid and neutrois.

Non-loveless aros

Nonbinary - 42.6%

Female - 29%

Transgender - 27.8%

Cisgender - 24.6%

Agender - 24.2%

Genderqueer - 19.6%

Male - 14%

Questioning - 13.1%

Genderfluid - 12.8%

Demigender - 8.9%

Genderflux - 6.4%

Xenogender - 6.3%

Arogender - 2.6%

Many other labels were mentioned by participants, the most common being bigender, gendervoid, queer, neutrois, pangender and cassgender.

Non-loveless aros are more likely to be cisgender, and more likely to consider themselves female, while the percentage of people identifying as male doesn’t change too much between the two groups. On the other hand, loveless aros are more likely to be agender or arogender.

Question 5: How would you describe your sexual orientation?

Multiple choices were allowed.

Loveless aros

Asexual - 55.9%

Asexual spectrum - 24.2%

Queer - 23.4%

Allosexual - 13.1%

No labels - 10.8%

Bisexual - 10.4%

Questioning - 8.1%

Gay and Lesbian - 6.7%

Pansexual - 5.3%

Heterosexual - 3.6%

Polysexual and Trixic - 1.4%

Toric - 0.9%

Various participants added other labels, with most participants specifying the asexual spectrum identities they identify with (the most common being aegosexual, aceflux, demisexual and greysexual). Out of the non-acespec labels, the ones used by more than one person were enbian and sapphic.

Non-loveless aros

Asexual - 60.9%

Queer - 25.6%

Asexual spectrum - 25.2%

Bisexual - 14.9%

Allosexual - 12.5%

Questioning - 8%

No labels - 6.7%

Pansexual - 5.9%

Lesbian - 4.8%

Gay - 3.7%

Heterosexual - 3.2%

Trixic - 2.4%

Polysexual - 1.8%

Toric - 0.7%

Out of the labels participants added, the more common were various asexual spectrum identities (the most common being quoisexual, aegosexual, greysexual and demisexual). Out of the non-acespec labels, the only one used by more than one person was enbian.

The bigger differences seen between the two groups is that loveless aros are more likely to not label their sexual orientation (in line with non-SAM aros being more common between loveless aros), while non-loveless aros are slightly more likely to be bisexual than loveless aros are. It’s also interesting that while the percentage of aroaces is more or less the same for loveless and non-loveless aros, non-loveless aros are somewhat more likely to identify as asexual.

Question 6: Are you neurodivergent or mentally ill?

Note: a person reached out to me telling me how this question could come off as insensitive to some neurodivergent people who would prefer if neurodivergency and mental illness were not associated together. If anyone wants to leave further feedback on this, feel free to do so.

Loveless aros

Yes - 63.4%

Unsure - 22.3%

No - 12.4%

Prefer not to say - 1.9%

Non-loveless aros

Yes - 54.6%

Unsure - 27.7%

No - 16.3%

Prefer not to say - 1%

Loveless aros seem more likely to be neurodivergent or mentally ill than non-loveless aros.

Question 7: Are you physically disabled or chronically ill?

Loveless aros

No - 69.4%

Yes - 15.4%

Unsure - 13.1%

Prefer not to say - 2.1%

Non-loveless aros

No - 71.6%

Yes - 14%

Unsure - 13.1%

Prefer not to say - 1.3%

There aren’t any big differences between the two groups when it comes to physical disability.

Question 8: Do you experience tertiary attraction of some kind?

Multiple choices were allowed.

Note: some people said they wished I had given an option for people who do not label tertiary attraction / feel tertiary attraction is not important to their identity. While it was only a handful of people, keep in mind results may not be 100% accurate.

Loveless aros

Aesthetic attraction - 63%

Platonic attraction - 39.3%

Questioning - 27.4%

Queerplatonic attraction - 23.2%

Sensual attraction - 23%

Alterous attraction - 20.7%

I experience no tertiary attraction - 13.3%

Other types of attraction - 5.8%

Non-loveless aros

Aesthetic attraction - 71.5%

Platonic attraction - 68.5%

Queerplatonic attraction - 38.8%

Sensual attraction - 35.3%

Alterous attraction - 28.2%

Questioning - 26.3%

Other types of attraction - 9.2%

I experience no tertiary attraction - 6%

Loveless aros are a little less likely to experience tertiary attraction. Also, loveless aros are less likely to experience pretty much all types of tertiary attraction compared to non-loveless aros. The most dramatic difference involves platonic attraction - 68% of non-loveless aros experience it, but only 39% of loveless aros do.

Question 9: Do you consider yourself aplatonic?

Loveless aros

No - 51.3%

Questioning - 29.2%

Yes - 19.5%

Non-loveless aros

No - 90.2%

Questioning - 7.2%

Yes - 2.6%

There is a huge difference here between the two groups. Nearly half of loveless aros either consider themselves aplatonic or are questioning it, while when it comes to non-loveless aros 90% of them neither use the label nor are they questioning it.

Question 10: Are you part of the voidpunk movement?

Loveless aros

I don’t know what that means - 38.6%

Yes - 35%

No - 26.4%

Non-loveless aros

I don’t know what that means - 43.8%

No - 36.3%

Yes - 19.9%

Loveless aros are quite more likely to consider themselves part of the voidpunk movement.

Question 11: Is there anything else about your demographics that you want to share or believe is relevant to this survey?

The main goal of this question was to see what other information could have been gathered, or would be interesting to gather were a similar survey to be run another time.

It would be meaningful to collect information regarding people’s race. Some people specified their race, although far too few to make any sort of comparison right now. Since race can be major influence on how people perceive their identity, I regret not adding a question centering on that.

Cultural background would have also been interesting to gather. Since this survey was in English, the perspectives given are mostly those of Anglophones - especially Americans, considering tumblr’s demographics. There have been however various people who mentioned not being USAmerican, stating that this influenced how they view matters of identity and love (some on this will be in Part 2 of these results).

Lastly and connected to the previous, religious background would have also been interesting to gather, as some people (mostly Christians or former Christians) have talked about how their view of lovelessness intersects with their religious history (will also be discussed in Part 2).

TL;DR

The biggest differences between loveless and non-loveless aros relate to how the two groups experience platonic attraction: non-loveless aros are more likely to experience all kinds of tertiary attraction, with loveless aros being both less likely to experience any individual kind of attraction and less likely to experience tertiary attraction in general. The most noticeable difference was that loveless aros are a lot less likely to experience platonic attraction than non-loveless aros.

This also ties in to the aplatonic label, which nearly 20% of loveless aros use, compared to less than 3% of non-loveless aros. In fact, the vast majority of non-loveless aros does not consider the aplatonic label for themselves at all.

Loveless aros are somewhat more likely to identify as non-SAM aros, as well as more likely not to label their sexual orientation. On the topic of gender, loveless aros are less likely to be cis, and they are more likely to be agender or arogender. The higher percentage of both non-SAM aros and arogender people could indicate that loveless aros are more likely to find their aromanticism the more important part of their identity.

Furthermore, loveless aros are less likely to identify as arospec or use specific arospec labels, while they are more likely to use the word “aromantic”.

Loveless aros are more likely to relate to the voidpunk label. Loveless aros are also more likely to be neurodivergent or mentally ill.

As far as the results of this survey show, there are no big differences between loveless and non-loveless aros when it comes to age or physical disability.

#aromantic #loveless aro #survey results

229 notes · View notes

quicksandblock · 3 years

Text

MCYT Demographic Survey Part 2 RESULTS

IT’S TIME!!!

Once again, thank you so much to everyone who participated! 1,654 people total responded to this - about four and a half times as many respondents as the first survey. It’s honestly incredible. I’m so happy the rest of you are as interested as I am in this stuff :D

The increased turnout is also why these results are being posted two days later than I’d intended. I want to give a HUGE thank you to my friend @quincepastey and my sibling @orestes-swimming for helping me out, and by helping I do mean they did basically all of the technical stuff for me, because my knowledge of spreadsheets was not up to the task. So thank you to Cupid for organizing all the data from questions 3 and 4 into something comprehensible for me, and thank you to Kal for making the charts! They are absolutely the MVPs and everyone reading this should go check them out. Thank you guys so much <3

Reblogs of this post are very appreciated. It would be awesome if the info about the results could reach everyone who submitted a response, so if you reblogged my first post about this survey, please consider reblogging this one as well!

For your convenience, here’s a link to the results of the first survey I did six months ago. Now - on to the results!

Question 1: What is your age range?

Compared to the results of the first survey, we can see that things have changed a bit! Specifically, the fandom has shifted just a little bit older. The solid majority of the fandom is still in the 15-17 year old range, but it’s gone down from almost half to closer to 40%. Almost a third of the fandom are ages 18-20, up from close to a fifth six months ago. 21-25 year olds have increased from about 10% to about 14%. And the youngest segment, 13-14 year olds, have gone from almost 20% of the fandom down to 12% - the sharpest change of all.

Finally, nearest and dearest to my own heart, there are now 26 whole people in the fandom aged 26-30 and 9 people aged 30+. Old Squad is growing, folks. We are... the 2% 😎 Special shoutout to the person who said their 15 year old kid got them into the fandom. I hope you know just how cool you are.

These results are interesting, but it’s also impossible to say how accurate the data is. This survey and the previous one were only posted on my blog, and they only reached a wider audience through the reblogs of my followers. So do these changes reflect actual changes in the demographics of the fandom as a whole, or is it just that my followers (and the people who follow them) have shifted older? To try to avoid this bias in the future, I may reach out to some well-known younger bloggers and ask them to reblog the next survey I do so that I can reach a more even audience.

Question 2: What is your gender?

Apologies for the small text, but there were so many unique write-in answers that I wanted to include them all. You may want to open the image in a separate tab for better quality.

In contrast to the age question, the gender spread of the fandom has remained pretty much the same. About half the fandom is still female, the nonbinary crowd has increased from 20% to 25%, 7% of us are male, almost 7% are genderfluid, and about 5% are agender. Just like last time, most of the write-in responses fell into the vague categories of either genderqueer or questioning.

No surprises on this one! The fandom continues to be overwhelmingly female and queer. Next time I think I’ll include genderqueer and questioning as options to try to catch some of those people into a formal category. All y’all are so valid, especially the person who wrote in their gender as “soup” <3

The results for questions 3 and 4 will be under a cut, because I don’t want to completely destroy people’s dashes.

Before I get into the last two questions, a couple notes. First, I want to explain how I came up with the list of creators, since a lot of people were either excited or disappointed by the fact that a few different people were on there.

On the last survey, this question was a write-in, and I had to transcribe and collate all the answers by hand to come up with the actual number of people who followed each creator. For this survey, I simply took the list that came out of the previous one and pasted it in! I also added a few people who no one wrote in six months ago but who are much more prominent now (Ranboo being the biggest example). So if you were excited to see your favorite small creator listed as an option, they were there because someone wrote them in last time! And if you wrote in your favorite small creator here, they’ll be an option on the next survey. The list is entirely crowdsourced and it will expand with each survey.

That said, the same also applies for more controversial creators. Specifically, I’m talking about CallMeCarson. Several people questioned my decision to keep him on the list - and to be honest, I considered taking him out. But in the end I decided to leave him in as an option for the sake of completeness and consistency with the previous survey. I want to emphasize that this is not me condoning his actions. But for the sake of the data, I felt that it was best to leave him in.

That said, let’s move on to questions 3 and 4!

Question 3: What creator(s) do you primarily follow?

So, it’s harder to compare with the previous survey on this one, and that’s purely because on the previous survey I didn’t have the help I did here. The chart I was able to make for the results back in October was frankly trash. Also, the fact that I split “followed creators” into two questions - primarily and casually followed - definitely throws things off. However, we can still do a certain amount of comparison!

The most obvious change is Ranboo. He straight up was not on the previous survey at all - I think he’d been streaming for less than a month at the time. Now, about 55% of respondents listed him as someone they primarily follow. The Dream SMP itself has also jumped dramatically. Previously, about 5% of people wrote in Dream SMP. That has increased to over half. Quackity has gone from less than 2% to about 30%. Karl has gone from 4% to 30%. Phil has gone from about 8% to a little under 50%. The SBI have jumped from 11% to over 40%.

Techno has gone from about 50% to over 60%. Tommy has gone from 45% to over 55%. Wilbur has jumped from 43% to 55%. Tubbo has remained steady at about 38%.

Dream has apparently dropped some of his following percentage-wise, falling from 50% to about 35%. However, George, Sapnap, and the Dream Team itself have all jumped from 10-12% to almost 30%.

I’m not going to go over the rest of the list, because that would just get way too long. However, I will drop a link to the spreadsheets of data for this survey and the previous one, so anyone who wants to can do some comparison of their own!

Question 4: What creators do you casually follow?

I won’t do as detailed of a comparison on this question, because there’s nothing to compare it to - this question wasn’t on the previous survey. However, it’s interesting to see how many more people follow Fundy, Nihachu, BadBoyHalo, Captain Puffy, Eret, Awesamdude, and Jack Manifold casually rather than as a primary favorite. Out of the top twelve, Karl, Quackity, Phil, and Tubbo are the only ones who don’t have a major discrepancy between the amount of people who follow them casually versus primarily.

I would be curious to hear people’s thoughts on why that’s the case! Personally, I would guess it’s a combination of each of their approaches to lore on the Dream SMP, the frequency and times of day that they stream, and the people they tend to make content with and be associated with by the fandom. I may go into that more later, but this post is already very long, so I’ll hold off for now. Here’s a link to this question’s spreadsheet for anyone who wants to take a closer look!

...And that’s a wrap! Good grief, this got long. Kudos to anyone who actually read the whole thing because I know my attention span would be challenged. I’m already thinking about the next survey - a couple people suggested that I add in questions about orientation and nationality, and while I want to keep the survey pretty tight in its scope, I am considering it. It would be even more data to process but it would be interesting to know!

I would love to hear people’s thoughts on these results! I’m only one person, so I know there’s interesting stuff I must have missed. Please, please feel free to reblog with your thoughts and observations! A lot of work went into this (both from me and from Cupid and Kal! Thank you guys again!), so I’m really hoping to hear what people think about it :D

I plan to reblog this and reply to some of the things people wrote in at the end, so stay tuned for that. And once again: thank you all for your interest in this project of mine <3 See you with another one in six months!

524 notes · View notes

youngavengerscameos · 3 years

Text

There's been lots of talk over the last few years about who's definitely not a Young Avenger, but team line ups always change and I'm curious, which characters would y'all like to see join the team if and when we get a v3? (To be crystal clear, I'm talking specifically comic characters, NOT mcu)

Here's some of the characters I'd like to see and some reasons why

Ramona and Johnny Watts

These two are the most obvious choices for new YA members. They're dating America and Kate respectively, and both have superpowers, so it'd be odd if they weren't there. Them joining a new team would also help them become more well known established characters and reduce their chances of getting forgotten in comic book limbo, and overall I think they'd mesh well with everyone else.

(This post has been sitting in my drafts since before Kate's mini released. I hate the spoilers I've heard so I will be electing to ignore their existence)

Laura (+Gabby) Kinney I loved their team up with Kate and I want more of them interacting. There's also no way in hell Laura isn't queer, canon just hasn't realized it yet. Young Avengers is Marvel's queerest title/property/group, and if being associated with them can't get her out of the closet, then nothing can. It's been strongly implied that Gabby's a lesbian and like Laura a Young Avengers series might be enough for Marvel to let her out of the closest, but due to her age it'd be weird for Gabby to be there without Laura. I also think both of their personalities would mesh better with the rest of the team if it's both of them as a unit instead of just one of them.

(I think Laura also knows David? I've never read X-Men so idk for sure if that's true, but at the very least she probably knows of him because of Krakoa and Daken. Either way, I think there's enough canon connections to current YA members to explain how she could get involved in whatever the plot of v3 might be) Viv Vision Yes she's a Champion and younger than them. But I think as long as it's only one younger character who has the vibe of like, a younger sibling hanging out with their older sibling and their cool friends then it can work. And I desperately want more of Viv interacting with her half-brothers. If v3 has ANY level of Maximoff/Vision family drama, I want Viv to be there too. A Young Avengers series could also give Viv more space to explore her sexuality. The Champions series have given her the space to come out which is great, but more exploration is always welcome. Nadia Van Dyne Mostly the same reasons as Viv, except it makes even more sense for Nadia to be actively seeking to build relationships with her new found (distant) family members. One of her major themes is that she grew up with no family and is now building her own found family, so I'd love more content of her bonding with Billy, Tommy, Teddy, and Cassie, and adding them and their extended circles of family and friends to her own ever growing circle.

And again, a Young Avengers series could finally give her the space to express her asexuality and aromantism on page since it's still only Word of God canon. I want to hear her say "I'm aroace" in! canon!!! Give me my aspec rep Marvel!!!!!! Give it to me!!!!!!!!!!

I also want more acknowledgement of David as one of the smartest people in the universe, and I think giving him a canonical connection to G.I.R.L. has a lot of fun potential. He would be a perfect mentor figure slash friend for them to bounce ideas off of and work through problems with. I think it'd be fun if he got to collaborate with them in the background of some nebulous future event making the deus ex machina tech that saves the day like characters like Tony Stark and Reed Richards get to do today Lauri-Ell Okay this is almost entirely because I'm in love with her and her biceps and her sweetheart personality and I want any excuse to see more of her. Billy and Teddy currently feel so tied to the Kree/Skrull Alliance and to space as a whole that if they're main team members in v3 then I think there's a good chance v3 will also deal with space stuff, and Lauri-Ell is one of the only alien characters I know of who I think could mesh well with the team. And I want to see her kiss a woman Xavin It's been so long since Xavin and Teddy have interacted, and I think it'd be cool to see what their dynamic is like now that Teddy is the emperor of the Kree/Skrull Alliance. And Xavin needs to be rescued from comic book limbo, it's been too long since the last time we saw them. It's a shame to leave Kris Anka's amazing redesign of them languishing in comic book limbo

(I also think, in the hands of a good author, Teddy and Xavin interacting has a lot of really cool potential for discussing how differently gender works in different cultures, and exploring how gender in Skrull societies might look and opperate differently from human societies. I don't actually expect Marvel to do anything this cool in canon, but maybe them interacting in canon or planting a few seeds like this might prompt fan work to play with the concept)

#I'm really really curious to hear people's answers to this #nicole chatters #young avengers #xavin #lauri ell #nadia van dyne #viv vision #laura kinney #gabby kinney #ramona watts #johnny watts

35 notes · View notes

imbellarosa · 4 years

Text

Let’s Talk Calm-ly about Two Loves

OR: When you’re a grown man who writes stories for a living, you definitely wrote your own weird bedtime story, too.

The TLDR here is that H has taken one specific listener around the globe, notably to Tokyo and Jamaica. He quotes an old Victorian Poet who was an awful human but who’s lasting legacy is the phrase “a love that dare not speak its name” which is - you guessed it - a reference to queer love. He also is super excited to spend what seems like the foreseeable future with this listener and has bought a little house with a garden of daisies with them and it’s very sweet and domestic. Anyways this is a wild time and it’s all under a cut because it’s...really a lot.

Anyways I think the people I owe thank yous this times around to are @queenlokibeth who had to listen to me scream about this for a while, Astrid, who screamed with me when this came out, and “M” who convinced me to finally get to work in this fandom. And, of course, all of the lovely people tagged below who’s work I used to build my argument.

1.) Who Wrote “Dream With Me”?

Well, not H, or so the story goes. Two other people (Steve Cleverly and Sanj Sen) did! I mean, right, okay, for a while I was like...that seems like an odd choice for a man who didn’t want to hand Two Ghosts over to his own band because it seemed too personal. He wrote on every song in both albums’ he’s released thus far, because he seems to be passionate about telling the stories he wants to tell (even if he won’t tell you explicitly what they’re about). But for a while, I was totally going with the flow there, and the rest of this analysis would still stand: the writer of this story definitely referenced a poem by Lord Alfred Douglas and Harry’s own songs.

However, I then read this fun quote from the Co-founder and CEO of Calm:

“Well,” he said, “The the Harry Styles one is interesting because that came purely from Harry Styles himself...we took the approach of creating a sort of musical epic poem – he doesn’t sing, it’s spoken with poetry, but there’s a sort of musical sound bed to it and it’s pulling on things and themes that Harry’s fans really adore about him and associate with him. So his story was driven really by him – we really created a concept around him.”

- Chris Advansun, July 7th, 2020 via @hlupdate

And I thought, hmmm. This does not sound like a project that he was not involved in creating. From this point on (July, 7th 2020), I began to think of it as a three way co-collaboration between him and the other two authors. But this confused me a bit, because there was largely a nonreaction from the fandom. I was waiting for an actual transcript, because I always fall asleep to these meditation stories, but it was being referenced to as some sort of Y/N fic, which was...honestly not what I expected, but also not implausible, thanks to the ~lovely~ image this man has had since the age of sixteen. But also, twitter seemed to be concerned by other things at the moment, and no one was analyzing the story. .

In fact, I messaged a friend the day that this story dropped, because it had been kind of a shit show day on Twitter. Rumors were sort of flying about everyone and everything: had Liam shaved his head? Was he engaged? Had he and Maya broken up? Were Zayn and Gigi engaged? Had they broken up? Did Niall have a girlfriend? (this one was true lol). Were Elounor engaged? Were they pregnant? Had they broken up??? My personal fav was the bald Liam rumor, which he promptly put to rest in LP Act 1 by...having a huge mane of hair.

So then I thought - huh. Why has today looked like this? I’m not saying that there aren’t days that twitter goes wild because of boredom, because there definitely is - the articles about secret meetings in Italy that are coming out this week (8/12/2020) are proof positive. So that definitely does happen, but it doesn’t usually happen on the days that there’s a lot of content. And maybe I’ve just been starved for content in this fandom, but I would consider a 40 minute video quite a bit of content.

Then the transcript dropped. I’m using two as references - this one on Wattpad and also @carl-and-pearl ‘s version here (thank you so much for the transcript!!). We’re going to get into a more detailed description of what’s going on in the story, but the first thing I recognized immediately is that it was first person POV. I knew that going in, based on the number of Y/N jokes going around on twitter. Then I read it aloud, and I realized that it read like a letter. Like an experience specific to the writer and the reader. And while that’s not super uncommon to write about an experience from the author’s POV - I listen to a podcast called Nothing Much Happens: bedtime stories for adults which has a similar concept - I thought it was odd that they were trying to include both the author and the listener. I completely understood why the y/n jokes were pertinent. But at the same time, it felt like something had snagged in my mind - like a particularly annoying splinter.

The conversations I was having around this story - completely based on the content, concept, and my own instinct - was that this story contained specific references to one person. I thought that it did read like a love letter, and that most identifying features would have been taken out, but the essence remained. Which, once I thought about it, was something that H excelled at doing. Think about Sunflower Vol 6 and Adore You and Canyon Moon and even Watermelon Sugar and Golden. Ask yourself, What do I know about the person they are about? They have skin that browns, they have a secret, they have mesmerizing eyes, they’re willing to dance in the kitchen with him (to dancehall), they have a belly, they’ve been through hard times, they’re witty, they have an accent, and they have lips. I know - super specific right?

So the splinter grew into a thorn - what was I missing? And then - when I was looking for something completely different - I stumbled upon this old interview Harry did with Zach Sang and the Gang Show back in 2017. For context, he was being asked about Sweet Creature. As you can imagine, it’s hard for people to believe he wrote such a beautiful love song when he hadn’t ever really had a long term relationship (two hearts in one home?? Who did you move in with, you can imagine them asking. When did you have time?). So what did he have to say about this?

"In my opinion,” he explained, “I think most songs are written for one listener. Maybe there's one thing in there that only they'll notice about them.... It's so much easier to say something in a song than it is to say it to someone and I think it's really amazing to be able to communicate through that and be able to wrap up everything that you want to say in three and a half minutes and say it in a song."

- HS, May 3 2017

By this time, please believe that I was screeching. Seeing this felt like he put into words the exact feeling I had about “Dream With Me”. It felt like a nod to someone that I didn’t know, which made the story hard to listen to, tbh. Although, I will say that when I did finally listen to it, it knocked me out and gave me odd dreams so. Once was enough for me haha!

So my new operating theory is exactly what Advansun said: I think that H was the primary writer/the driving force behind the story. Because of the references I’m about to run through, because it feels like the way he tells stories, and because they admitted to him being more involved than they originally claimed. That’s going to be how I write the rest of the analysis - under the impression that H had a direct hand in the story that was being put forth. However, I think that the analysis itself would stand whether or not he wrote any of it. It would just be a more tenuous reflection of him than I believe it to be.

2.) How Do I Love Thee? In Two Ways.

Before I jump into the story, let’s talk a little about the poem that I want to compare it to: Two Loves, by Lord Alfred Douglas. Let’s be clear this is not at all a defense of who Bosie was - he was a terrible person, particularly in his later years, when he’d converted to Catholicism and turned his back on his younger self, and his partner, Oscar Wilde. He was violently anti-Semitic, and turned his back on his own community. I want to get this out of the way because I very much believe that we should examine artists for who they are. That is, after all, what I am trying to do here.

But his poem Two Loves has often been used - much to his disappointment, I’m sure - as an exploration of queer love in Victorian times. A line that I will be exploring more deeply in a second was in fact used against Oscar Wilde in his trail for indecency . He attempted - unsuccessfully - to explain it away, but it was too blatantly about their relationship for even the British Victorian society to ignore. I really, really recommend a read of this poem, because it is - despite it’s author - a good piece of work, which explores the themes of shame and love and longing between two men in that time.

I’m going to start with my own background, as someone who’s analyzed fandoms before. I first came across this poem in the Sherlock fandom, with this analysis by @the-7-percent-solution, when I was running in that fandom, and she explains the poem brilliantly in just a few lines. I’m going to take a little longer to run through it, but if you want a concise explanation and a brilliant meta, I encourage you to run to their blog and check it out. That fandom taught me most everything I know about catching symbols and recurring themes and “clueing for looks” and I love it desperately, still.

But we’re here to talk about this fandom, so on with the poem! Essentially, the poem outlines a dream the speaker had: In his dream, he’s standing in a field with flowers - beautiful ones of all kind - and he meets this young man with clear blue eyes and bright red lips and they kiss a bit and have a picnic, and it’s all lovely. If you think I’m kidding, I’m really not. Please, read it for yourself.

Anyways, after they did they did the whole picnic thing, the speaker and his date go on a walk in this field, where they come across two figures. The first is described as,

“...fair and blooming, and a sweet refrain Came from his lips; he sang of pretty maids And joyous love of comely girl and boy, His eyes were bright, and 'mid the dancing blades Of golden grass his feet did trip for joy; And in his hand he held an ivory lute With strings of gold that were as maidens' hair, And sang with voice as tuneful as a flute, And round his neck three chains of roses were.”

- Two Loves, 1894

The speaker, however, was drawn to the second figure:

“He was full sad and sweet, and his large eyes Were strange with wondrous brightness, staring wide With gazing; and he sighed with many sighs That moved me, and his cheeks were wan and white Like pallid lilies, and his lips were red Like poppies, and his hands he clenched tight, And yet again unclenched, and his head Was wreathed with moon-flowers pale as lips of death. A purple robe he wore, o'erwrought in gold With the device of a great snake, whose breath Was fiery flame..”

- Two Loves, 1984

Of course, the speaker immediately asks the second man who he is. The second man says, “My name is Love”. The first man corrects him quickly:

“ He lieth, for his name is Shame, But I am Love, and I was wont to be Alone in this fair garden, till he came Unasked by night; I am true Love, I fill The hearts of boy and girl with mutual flame.”

-Two Loves, 1984

The second man sighs and acquiesces, “Have thy will. I am the love that dare not speak its name.”

It was, of course, this last line that really gave the meaning of the poem away. It was the line that was put to Oscar Wilde as proof of a romantic relationship, it was the line that went down in history as a way to refer to queer love, and it was the line that first stuck out to me when I was reading “Dream With Me”.

The reading here is clearly that “Love” is the love that is acceptable to society - easy, sweet, and cherished. “Shame” is the love that happens in secret - beautiful, alluring to the speaker, passionate, anxious ( as can be seen in the clenching and unclenching of his hands), and proud. He refuses to call himself as anything but what he is. The first man may call him Shame, but he refuses the name, and instead, offers a qualifier to his own descriptor. He is still love, he is just the love that can’t be spoken about.

3.) Walking in Golden Fields of Sunflowers

Now let’s talk about “Dream With Me”. I’m ignoring the first few stanzas (from the line “Have you ever wondered” to “What the two of us can find”.) because those are pretty standard introductory paragraphs to a guided meditation. So we start with the line “Let’s travel now to moonlit valleys...”.

I’m going to do the same thing I did with “Two Loves” first. I am going to describe literally, in general terms, what happens in the story. Warning, I change pronouns from “they” to “you” because the whole thing confuses me, but note that I’m always talking about the speaker and the listener:

So after doing the standard intro, the speaker and the listener take a walk through the woods enjoying nature, particularly the grass, the trees, and the blue sky above. You’re already clearly in love. Then you’re magically on a raft, with cherry blossoms all around you. If you want a good visual for that, here’s a site that has pictures from a boat rental in Tokyo where you can snuggle on a raft in the Chidorigafuchi moat. And then suddenly it starts raining, and they (you) watch the rain for a hot second, and then the scene magically shifts again, and you’re under a porch (although I guess it could be the boat rental’s porch. They do usually have covered areas).

Kind of furthering that theory, they then lounge by the shoreline, skipping stones and hanging out, looking at the snow capped mountains. In case you’re curious, because at this point I sure was, you can see mountains from certain areas in the city of Tokyo.

Anyways, then it’s snowing, and you’re magically in a cabin, just chilling by the fire, and you fall asleep again. You wake up somewhere else.

Where are you now? Well, you’re on a tropical island filled with palm trees. As an American, my mind immediately jumps to the Caribbean, but I suppose it could absolutely be in the Mediterranean as well. The island has white beaches, mangroves, a turquoise ocean, and a gorgeous, peaceful atmosphere.

If you’re curious as to what a mangrove looks like - and I certainly was - they are a group of trees and shrubs that live in the coastal intertidal zone and Jamaica is doing a massive restoration project involving primary school children to regrow this vital part of their ecosystem. More interestingly, there currently exist no mangrove forests in the Mediterranean, so my initial feeling that this scene would take place in the Caribbean was correct. On that note - again, because I was curious - Jamaica has gorgeous white sand beaches with turquoise oceans.

But I’ve gone off topic again! After you’re minds are “in tune” once more (trying to find a heartbeat, anyone?), you reappear in a meadow, with beautiful flowers of all kind, where you are now walking hand in hand through a field of sunflowers, which give the feeling a “warm and golden hue”. Then you come across a little farmhouse with daisies poking out (clearly I have no way of locating this anywhere in the world, but I assume that the UK has both sunflowers and daisies). It’s an empty house which was loved and left because of the passage of time, which inspires my favorite line in the poem: “ The thought of passing time inspires/A feeling that grows stronger”. It’s just...really sweet to me.

So, of course, they do what anyone would do when they come across an empty farmhouse, they go inside. And there, they begin to fall asleep, reflecting on all they have just seen, referencing other scenes of the poem: “ Moonlit valleys, Burdened forests, Gazing at the ocean. Summer meadows, Tranquil sunsets steeped in emotion”.

The next few stanzas are just going to be copy-pasted, and then I’ll go into them a bit, but this is the end of the poem, so they’re the final reflections;

“The tenderness we feel When we are close Two minds as one Surrounds us and connects us But we’ve only just begun.

For now we dream together Of all there is to follow. And know that sleep will keep us safe From now until tomorrow.

Maybe all the memories That we’ve gathered here tonight Are all dreams now remembered Or wishes in plain sight.

No matter what They’re with us now. For this night and forever. And every time we close our eyes They’re yours and mine to treasure.”

- HS, Dream With Me, via @carl-and-pearl

And that’s it! The literal story, in short, is that you started in a forest, then went to Tokyo (maybe) and then Jamaica (perhaps) and then back to a field of sunflowers and daisies in the UK (which is also a guess, it could be Italy or France or Idaho for all I know, but let’s call it an educated guess).

4.) My Dream Journal

So now that we know what happens in the story, how do we interpret this? Well, There are a few lines in the poem that I want to draw your attention to: the first takes place in the first part of this story, when you’re still in the forest. This is, I must say, the most direct reference to Two Loves in the whole poem/song/story. Both works are describing a walk in the woods with your loved one, and, in a fun reference in the middle of the story, Dream With Me says

The shimmering reflection Shows us smiling from above. But what we think But dare not speak is L-O-V-E love.

-Dream With Me, 2020

Remember that line I mentioned before? I am the love that dare not speak its name. Right, so that’s almost a direct quote. It also has a really fun nod to “I Would” (Would he say he’s in L-O-V-E?/Well if it was me then I would), but I digress.

This first part of the narrative, I feel, really sets up what the rest of it will look and feel like, in the same way that “Golden” sets the tone for Fine Line. (You didn’t think I was going to make a post about Harry and NOT mention Golden, did you?? If you did, I’m disappointed!!). So let’s take a look at what’s happening, and the language he’s using to describe it.

One of the best things about this poem is how vivid it feels. Of course, I’m about to argue that it’s vivid because it was based in reality, but let’s talk about the sheer amount of detail he uses to describe the place he’s walking through. The valley (canyon lmao) is moonlit, the grass and the leaves make mosaics of green, you’re walking by the heather (the symbolism of heather is good luck, admiration, and protection), the sepia sunlight breaks through the trees.

You know what it kind of sounds like? Sweet Creature. You’re about to roll your eyes at me! I can feel it! But listen, okay?

“Sweet creature Running through the garden Oh, where nothing bothered us But we're still young I always think about you and how we don't speak enough”

Which, to be honest, sounds like what they’re doing. They’re walking through the garden in the sun, not daring to speak about the Love that he (they both) feel, and instead refering to it in veiled Victorian terms.

And then we head to Tokyo! I know that you’re about to ask me why I think it’s Tokyo versus...idk, anywhere else? Well, for one, he went to Tokyo (to let it go) publicly in 2019. He was there for a few months, and there are some great pictures of that time:

Look! Here he is with his club owner friend and his dog, and a fun red bandanna! But let’s be honest, the dog really steals the show here. But wait! there’s more! More dog content, too!

This was on Jan 31st, 2019, and he’s taking the dog for a walk! Very cute! If nothing else, he spent a lot of time with dogs in Tokyo! And the city fits the description of the story. So I feel rather comfortable with my interpretation that this first date is a memory of this trip - or another - to Tokyo.

So what did “you both”do in Tokyo? Well, chill on a raft while the cherry blossoms flutter around you, clearly. You also refocused your purpose. What did he do in Tokyo in 2019? Well, he took time to think about and write songs for the album he was about to go record. Kind of like refocusing on what’s next, right? And then, in the story when “you both” had time to think amongst the lake and the water and the rain and the moon, and you’d come to the conclusions you needed to, you left. What did he do when he did the things he needed to? Well, he left, too.

And where did he go? Well, in real life, I suppose he went to do his job. But, in the story, you’re meant to be falling deeper and deeper into sleep, so it’s sort of like traveling backwards, you see? Like counting down to one. So you end up on this island with turquoise ocean and mangrove forests. I’m calling this Jamaica. Why? Well, the description fits, for one, down to the four types of mangroves that exists within its ecosystem.

And - probably the biggest reason - I can place him there, too. Here’s him in 2017:

I added this picture because the water around him....looks rather turquoise, doesn’t it? Kind of like he’s enjoying his time on a tropical island by the beach?? Oh, and here’s another one!:

The red bandanna makes a comeback!

So what are you doing in Jamaica, according to the story? Well, you’re hanging out, basically. Enjoying the beach and each other, of course! What else? To be exact, “[Your] thoughts dovetail and unify/ In tune two minds together”. I’m so glad that you’re tuned like an old guitar now! Congrats! Really happy for you!

What was he doing in Jamaica three years ago? Why, he was recording his first album, or so the story goes. I’ll tell you something: finding press for that album was literally the most difficult part of this whole analysis. I got a fair bit of the tattoo roulette with Kendall Jenner, and some things about Carolina, but the interview with Zach Sang took me like an hour and a half to find again to link. The fact that a lot of it has been buried is...not great, for posterity purposes. He’s going to want that one day.

But I’ve gotten off track again! We gotta go back and finish our story, right? What happens now? Well, this does:

hahahaha okay, I’m really sorry, but I had to. I’m not, actually, making it up though! According to the story:

“ As minutes turn to hours We drift off somewhere new. And visualize a stairway To a door we now walk through”

- Dream With Me, 2020

So maybe Louis was just...demonstrating for you.

Anyways! Where do you walk out to? A golden field full of sunflowers. You walk for a minute, then come across an old house with daisies popping up out of the garden. And that’s where the story ends. I guess you’ve made that farmhouse feel like home.

Now to the little reflection he does on the outro. The lines I want to bring your attention are: “The tenderness we feel when we are close two minds as one surrounds us and connects us but we’ve only just begun” and “Maybe all the memories that we’ve gathered here tonight are all dreams now remembered or wishes in plain sight.”

Let’s talk about the first sentence first. In the context of finding a home that could be a shared home, and a future, this is very much an “end of the story, beginning of our lives” sort of thing. You’re back from all over, and it’s time to settle down, and see what’s next.

And now the second sentence. I think this is the one that really drives my point about this story being a collection of memories he has - that’s what he calls it. The story is “gathered memories” that might also be called “remembered dreams” (think of how people say of vacations, “oh it was a dream!”) or you might call it “wishes in plain sight”. This feels in line with the rest of the story. In this stanza, he’s sort of letting you in a bit. If I’ve read this right - and I really think that I have - he’s giving the larger context for the story. It’s a collection of memories he’s had with someone he loves.

5.) Cool! Can you prove it?

I mean, I’d argue that if you read this far, I have proved it, but let’s make some more links, shall we? This was called a “muscial epic” that was “driven by him”. I’d argue that if I know my Victorian literature (thank you, Sherlock!), then he definitely does. Then there’s the fact that he quoted it, so. That did happen. And he knows what it means. And even if he didn’t, there were two other people on the story. Someone was more than capable of catching that one, and the fact that they didn’t speaks to intent. They want you to think of that phrase when you read this poem. They want you to think of that walk in the woods while you’re going on this one.

And, as for my assumption that this is for and about one person, well. Think about it. He said that he writes his songs for a single listener. I’m not saying it’s the same listener each time, let’s get that right, but it is always just for one person. With that, and with the assumption that he’s been involved in the writing of this story, I’d say that the same rule applies. He went with someone to Japan and Jamaica (J^2 haha). And, if I had to guess, it was the same person.

Why, you ask? Well, for one, if that weren’t the case, then this poem would no longer be for one listener, it would be for multiple. And, for another, imagine how awkward it would be to listen to it with his current partner and have to explain “oh, yeah that was the super romantic vacation I took with someone else” . And, I suppose that because I think that attitude of “refocusing” and “dovetailing” and “tuning” and getting excited about imagining all of the tomorrows with your partner speaks to a long term relationship breathing easily, you know?

I’m also going to argue that describing the aura around the house as “golden” was intentional, especially when paired with the location - in the middle of a field of sunflowers. Those are both direct references to his songs. And those two songs are particularly linked by the number 28. The third song that features 28 is Fine Line the song, but that’s a different story. Anywho! “Golden”’s bridge just repeats the word ‘golden’ twenty eight times (if you go here , you can count the bridge) and “Sunflower Vol. 6″ ends the song with 28 “boops” (believe me, I wish I was making this up. I’m not.). So then, once again, you’ve linked a story to two already linked songs.

And, even if you don’t buy the intentional repetition, they’re linked another way, aren’t they? The color scheme and the sun symbol. Sunflowers were named because of their sun-like appearance. They turn to face it. They symbolize loyalty and adoration. And then, of course, the sun is - say it with me - golden. And it - like the person in golden - waits in the sky, beautiful and dangerous and constant. And here that symbol is, in a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere. At home.

This whole story feels like you’re taking the time to find that heartbeat that you think you might have lost, and sort of coming back to a space where you understand that this is what you want, now and forever. It feels like finding a home that could be yours forever, and it feels like walking through some of the moments that remind him of that.

It really is rather lovely, if you think about it, especially since he has a tendency to attribute “home” to people rather than place, in his songs. So it’s like. Going all around the world and always being at home.

#harry styles #calm #dream with me #two loves #honestly man #im happy for you #but ewww #be less sappy please #i mean #SOME OF US DONT HAVE THAT YET HAROLD #hahahaha i think im funny #long post ts #idk how else to tag this but im really proud of it #okay now i'll do the penguin song #promise hahaha

556 notes · View notes