#st games analysis

[nowmemoriees]

how did they get away with this so fast💀

[emblazons]

"You Okay?" • "I'm Okay."

Cloud Strife & Tifa Lockhart Nibelheim Flashbacks • Final Fantasy VII (Rebirth)

Bonus: Yuffie Sees All

[byler-alarmist]

El unwittingly created the perfect day in Lenora for Max, not Mike

[batrogers]

So, which Links pay their taxes, for real?

This is a somewhat fast and loose approximation of my recall of historical taxes, who paid them (or didn’t) and how, how they were collected and from whom, and what kind of taxation was even possible under different governments. This is pulled from a couple decades of study into historical society and books I’ve read on feudalism, the social duties of knights, and government structure and instability in both medieval Europe and the Ottoman Empire, among others.

Notes on organization:

1. While this is a response to a Linked Universe post, I am going per game not per Link because a few games must be split. The implications about taxes are drastically different between LttP & LbW, and Minish Cap & FSA. I also wished to include Spirit Tracks bc it’s fun. I am not linking the inspiring post, because I don't believe in attacking people for a ten minute list just because it twigged my history brain.

2. I am excluding games in which Link is not implied to be a tax-paying resident of the country he’s in, so Majora’s Mask, Oracle of Ages & Seasons, and Phantom Hourglass are not included.

3. There are usually overlapping taxes in a society. Here I will mostly address taxes on residents, on vocations or landownership, whether they can pay in coin or in kind, and if they have a household that would pay tax for them.

4. I have placed Hyrule Warriors in Child Timeline here for a few reasons, mostly related to army structure implications, the martial norms of the game and the two preceding ones (large standing armies in FSA and HW; mentions of “prolonged wars” and very military flavoured royal regalia in Twilight Princess.) Obviously this doesn’t strictly mean anything or oblige agreement, but its my habit to do so and I wished to explain the choice.

I apologize so much for how long this is. If you wish to read it in a different format, it's also on AO3. This is 2000+ words. I suppose if you click, I hope you enjoy.

A note on Knighthood:

Knights were a specific, highly trained profession often (but not always) associated with landownership, either someone who was in the household of the landowner, or who was the landowner themself. The trappings of knighthood (weapons, armour, and horse) were quite expensive and belonging to a family of knights implies a specific degree of social status in and of itself.

While a sovereign can in theory bestow any title they want on anyone at any time, usually this requires that there be some service rendered for which this is a gift. (Fucking them, or just being hella attractive, counts.) Because of this, there is a wide variety of things “Knight” can mean, but here we will presume it means some degree of professionalism and attachment to a social status that is both someone who collects taxes from subjects and pays them to a sovereign in turn.

IIII

Skyward Sword =

There is no evidence of centralized government in Skyward Sword, therefore the taxes are going to whoever is in charge of the settlement. They were likely paid in kind (material goods), although Skyloft does have coin. Given we know who’s basically running Skyloft, we can guess they were paid to Gaepora, and at least one tax-funded organization: the Knight’s Academy.

Did students pay taxes? Graduates might be exempt from some taxes if still in service to the city. Afterwards, given he’s usually presumed to be married to Zelda, we can say Link is either paying taxes (or hearing about it personally at dinner), and/or helping collect and distribute taxes to others.

Or, even funnier, setting taxes on the new community because they need supplies to build it.

Minish Cap =

There is a central government in Minish Cap, because they have a monarch! This is probably a small territory: some “kings” have a few villages and fields and that’s it, but it is a castle which requires taxed goods to function because it’s not producing its own.

Link’s grandfather is a blacksmith, and also alive therefore if the census tax is paid per household, Link has nothing to do with it. If its paid per business, he’s an apprentice or employee so it’s still paid by his grandfather. Depending on which taxes were being paid when, they might pay coin or in kind (eg. Labour or goods produced.) While people absolutely did lie and cheat and not pay taxes, I expect the con artistry didn’t involve “refunds” in a modern sense, but that’s probably tax history specialization territory...

Four Swords =

This game doesn’t have enough of a framing story to comment on its social structures, but is superficially similar enough to Minish Cap we can assume the situation matches.

Ocarina of Time =

We literally see Talon paying his taxes in kind in the game. Like, you can’t pay milk as a lump sum so delivering it reliably to the castle could be counted towards his taxes, or he’s getting paid enough for it that will be paying for it later. Either way, supplies are delivered from Lon Lon Ranch by its owner who is still alive after the game and presumably will continue to be responsible for it until he is no longer owner of Lon Lon Ranch.

(Malon likely is a valid heir to Lon Lon Ranch. There is no reason to assume marriage affects her legal claim to Lon Lon Ranch. It is not common for a woman to lose her property in marriage – British law is the exception to historical norms – so even if Talon died she could still be sole and/or primary owner of Lon Lon Ranch, whether or not she is married.)

Link starts out the game not even on a Hyrulean census, with no property to his name, and no social connections. He is not paying taxes because he does not legally exist. Until he is counted on a poll as a resident of either Castletown or Lon Lon Ranch, and until he’s considered an adult (usually by means of acquiring personal property or skill of any value) he’s unlikely to be taxed.

Now, if we include into the assumed connections to the Hero’s Shade who died in elaborate plate mail we get a very different answer. Someone who owns elaborate plate mail of that sort has significant money. He may have received it as a gift for service to the crown, but if so it likely wasn’t the only gift. Plate mail is often associated with knights; a knight of some consequence is likely attached by some means or another to property. Knights under a King usually collected taxes for them... So, in a world where Link has platemail and is a valued knight of the Hylian Crown he may also, like Skyloft, be the person collecting taxes to pass them on. Whether or not that means he now technically owns Lon Lon Ranch by means of owning the land it’s on.... I leave that up to you.

Wind Waker =

Outset Island most likely operates like Skyloft: there is a headman or prominent family who collects surplus to give as aid, either in terms of money or food or services. Within that space, Link living with an invalid grandmother and also underage sister was probably one of those families receiving surplus as social support, possibly on top of whatever his grandmother was still capable of in her old age.

However, Link is implied post-game to leave with Tetra. What taxes did a ship and its crew owe? Harbour dues, customs, and other duties! This varied a lot and was usually addressed whenever someone docked at a controlled port. Often questions were asked about where the materials came from, more or less scrupulously. Sometimes people cared if you just happened to have something without a sound origin, that you had taken from someone else... like we see Tetra’s crew doing in-game...

It may indeed be possible Tetra (and her crew) are wanted for tax evasion and Link gets to be included in that, whatever his age.

Spirit Tracks =

This boy works for the centralized government’s transit system. If he doesn’t pay taxes, it’s because he doesn’t owe taxes because he’s working a tax-funded job and likely has been since he was an apprentice. He is possibly also union and knows the local tax law in extremely nuanced detail. He will judge you for not paying your taxes.

Twilight Princess =

The start of the story is also framed around the village blacksmith making some kind of tax-like offering to the royal family and setting Link up to take it. This is likely not a normal tax, but it does tell us that Ordon Village is considered a designated social unit within Hyrule and therefore we may assume that “Ordon Village” is a taxable entity in its own right. Link, as a resident of Ordon Village, would pay his portion of the village’s tax to the Mayor who arranged for its delivery. If Link marries Ilia, you can expect once again this is someone who either hears about taxes over dinner, or is helping collect them.

If Link leaves and moves to Castle Town, he’d have the joys of all the things large city residents pay for, up front or not, that village residents who are not transporting food and goods long distances but those will be sales and customs taxes, not per-person taxes based off the census or his vocation.

Four Swords Adventures [Game + Comic] =

Link’s family is explicitly positioned as either a knight family, or a legacy castle guard family with close personal ties to the royal family. He also has a living father, who is implied to survive the game/comic. As such, with Link a minor, he’s not paying taxes because he’s not liable for taxes. He also may be paying taxes by means of collecting taxed goods from the lands over which his family has ownership and paying a portion of that income to the Crown themselves.

Interesting, this could also tie into something I’ll mention in more detail below but one form of “evading taxes” can be “refusing to do labour.” If he is from a family whose young men are supposed to provide service to the Crown in the form of military labour, “leaving” is a crime.

Hyrule Warriors =

In this game, Link explicitly starts as a base soldier. It is possible for soldiers to be a form of population tax (and/or control) especially in larger kingdoms or empires. He likely did receive regular pay, but he might also have been considered legal property of the Kingdom, eg a slave. Either way, his upkeep was entirely from the taxes that went into the coffers, whether it was in food or kind. Post-game, he’s likely been involved in rebuilding which again would be in large part executed by taxed goods and labour. He might even be part of the apparatus collecting or setting taxes, especially if he becomes close with Zelda herself.

Link to the Past =

Link is explicitly stated to belong to a knight family, with an adult family member who is (arguably) alive at the end of the game. If he is paying taxes, he’s paying them from taxes paid to his family. Not paying your taxes as a knight family is infinitely more suspicious than not paying them as an individual, because then your monarch wonders what you’re using that money for. Is it rebellion? It better not be rebellion.

Link Between Worlds =

THIS Link is a Blacksmith apprentice. He does not have any known adult family. He may be assessed as part of the household he is apprenticed to; he might be assessed as independent depending on his age and where he is in his training and what the local tax law looks like. If there is a guild he may be assessed by means of his membership... but that may also be a separate tax from what he’s paying per the census. He could likely avoid it altogether, because he’s not exactly important at this age and social rank.

Ravio, on the other hand, is in some way involved with the Royal Family of Lorule (Hilda is personally betrayed he left.) However, Lorule is a failed state. There is no means by which they can collect taxes, nor distribute them... which is likelywhy Hilda has no control over her guards. (People aren’t very obedient when not getting paid.) Recovery to a state where taxation is reliable and people feel it’s worth doing will be a long road.

Zelda I & II =

Same as above: Hyrule is a failed state, at best in the process of recovery in Zelda II. People likely do not trust the tax collectors who do exist to pay their dues to the Crown vs keeping it for themselves. This is a matter of power rules. Link, a minor with no property, is likely of zero interest to anyone unless they sell children. In Zelda II, where he lives close enough to approach Impa with a question, he may be paying taxes if he has a vocation or he may be helping work in the castle, which brings us back to he’s collecting, distributing and/or paid by taxes.

BOTW & TOTK =

Hyrule here is NOT a failed state because they do not have a central government attempting to exert control. Here, things are more like Wind Waker or Skyward Sword: village mayors or prominent families control local taxation. There is limited intercommunity interactions, which are likely a matter of market tax. Link, if he settles in Hateno village, would be accountable to them.

In TOTK, we do see some kind of centralization: there’s the joint effort to construct Lookout Landing and the monster patrols, both of which would require outside support until local agriculture begins. Which communities contribute is hard to say, but most villages at this time are more than prosperous enough to spare the means. A new settlement would reduce overcrowding, increase the land available to farm, and so on: all good things for a prospering world.

(This does NOT imply they are re-establishing the monarchy. None of these groups call themselves “royal”. They’re monster patrols, not royal guards, and Lookout Landing, not a new Castletown. The location has access to already-quarried stone and trade routes going for it, after all.)

Given how Link behaves in both games, it seems likely he would contribute whatever surplus he acquires to these efforts. Out of every Link, I think he is the most likely to be cooperative with taxation... although there may be some arguments about what his taxable means is. Should this be paid in rupees or bokoblin guts? Let’s negotiate!

TL;DR =

Taxes vary wildly across time, space, regions, and forms of government. While some Links live in similar social circumstances, we have at least four really distinct categories: the Knights, the failed states, those with vocations, and the villagers. Similarly, many forms of taxes are for social support, things that Link tends to be characterized as valuing in the games. When people refuse to pay, they either do not see the request or authority as legitimate, or do not have the means to do so.

IDK it’s just infinitely funnier to me to say “Wind Waker Link is wanted for tax evasion because Tetra has never paid a harbour duty tax in her life” vs stating the evasion without cause. All the best!

[aemiron-main]

LITERALLY I WILL NEVER FUCKING SHUT UP ABOUT THE SOUNDTRACK I WAS SO FUCKING RIGHT WHEN I TALKED IN MY OTHER POST ABOUT THE TIES BETWEEN “GAMES” VIDEO GAMES AND TABLE TOP GAMES REPRESENTING AND MIKE AND WILL’S RELATIONSHIP AND REPRESENTING ATTRACTION (Mike is looking for someone to play DND with in s4 but is also having some gay realizations TM and figuring out who he is/isn’t attracted to etc PLUS the fact that the song “Play With Me,” that plays during that scene, is literally ABOUT using games as a metaphor for attraction/getting together with someone.)

Now, what sparked this post? Well! The scene of Mike looking for a player for dnd is DIRECTLY connected to rink-o-mania via the soundtrack! I’m gonna do more of an analysis of when exactly each of these songs plays and tie it all into my gay Mike analysis etc, but:

The song “Play With Me” by Extreme plays during Mike’s scene when he’s looking for a DND sub.

The song “Rock me Amadeus” plays at Rink-O-Mania.

“But Em these songs aren’t connected! What are you on about?” OH BUT THEY ARE! I KNEW that the beginning of “Play With Me” sounded familiar! But why was it familiar? It’s literally Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's "Turkish March," played on guitar.

Yknow. Amadeus Mozart. The guy that “Rock Me Amadeus” is about.

The scene of Mike looking for someone to play DND with is tied via the soundtrack to the scene of him and Will at rink-o-mania. I have so so SO much more to say about this but I need to sit down and write it out.

[castleclerics]

i’ve noticed recently that there are an insane amount of blatant parallels between life is strange and stranger things but this one takes the cake for blowing my mind the most

it’s so obvious they got inspiration from that scene i wonder how long they’ve been waiting to do this lmao. and both of these scenes are the ends of episodes !

even the song ‘obstacles’ fits the end scene of s4 so well my god i got a little teary

[queerxqueen]

QueerxQueen Intro & Navigation

N E W     P I N N E D     P O S T !

Jamie | she/they | 20s autistic queer writer, gifmaker, and nerd

[My Ao3] [Nonfandom Blog] [My Gifs] [Top Posts]

My askbox is always open for questions, thoughts, prompts for analysis or gifs or fics, though I won't promise to answer everything as every once in a while a bunch come in at once and I get overwhelmed!

My Fics

Fool Me Once - Stranger Things. Will Byers/Mike Wheeler. Teen. 33k words. No Upside Down AU where Will and Mike grew apart, and grow back together.

Of Starks and Osborns - Spiderman. Harry Osborn/Peter Parker. Explicit. 47k words. No superpowers AU where Peter is supposed to be Harry's rival but has always been something else.

the moth and the flame - Saltburn. Felix Catton/Oliver Quick. Explicit. 17k words. Felix survives, and sees the real Ollie. It doesn't scare him as much as it should.

Kill Your Darlings - Stranger Things. Will Byers/Mike Wheeler. Teen. WIP. Slasher horror AU where the party go for a weekend of fun in the mountains and find themselves hunted.

Stranger Things & Byler

Byler Analysis [Mine] [All] The Byler Big Bang (fic & art challenge) Scriptgate

Other Fandom Tags

While I sometimes focus on one fandom or another, this blog is ultimately unapologetically multifandom and spans 10+ years of my special interests.

Doctor Who Good Omens The Hunger Games Marvel (mostly Spiderman) The Last of Us Legend of Zelda Percy Jackson Saltburn Yellowjackets Many many more I'm not sorry...

[robinsteve]

i think that joyce and hopper love each other very much, and there's genuine potential there. but i really hated what they did to them in s3. joyce was still mourning her relationship with bob, and hopper tried to trick her into going on a date with him? i know we were meant to read it as "oh she's not allowing herself to move on" but cmon.

i try not to think about s3

hot take hour to celebrate my last day of work!

[clericandpaladin]

Where is this shadow coming from?

Random but first I wanted to throw in the cross symbolism on the left and the demon eyes brenner

Now this dark shot is an important one. At this point, we can see the three figures are right in front of the windows. The mirror, notably, is not in the shot.

And then here, we see them all directly in front of the windows. Also notice that scary bizarre shadow on the left which seems to correspond with the mirror. Now, the mirror is in view, but the guards are not in front of it.

And then finally, the shadow, which seems to mirror the movements of the guard but is not in the right place to actually be the guard's shadow. They're too far ahead.

It almost looks like the shadow vacated from brenner, and moves on to watch what's happening. I wonder if this is how brenner is so omnipresent, he has some sort of true sight ability like Will but instead brenner can shadow walk in the real work, like Princess and the Frog's Shadow Man.

There's also this really clever sound design where they place this spooky queue noise as the shadow appears, but it also plays right after el screams Papa so you could easily hear it as just dramatic emphasis if you're not staring for clues. (X)

TLDR: no one on screen fits the shadow's direction and distance, which indicates to me that the shadow is somehow supernatural and related to brenner.

[pennyblossom-meta]

Analysis of the romance in Death Note's Spiraling Trap game.

EDIT 02/03/2024: minor edits and fixes, added a few imgs and extra content.

A huge thank you to the folks over at agtteam who translated L - the ProLogue to Death Note: Spiraling Trap into English! Now we can all date L become FBI agents after hours.

I've been playing the game recently and one of the features I love the most is the L Communicator, which allows the main character (referred to as MC henceforth) to take a break from adventuring and listen to L talk about whatever is on his mind.

There's around one hundred different lines available as the MC develops a relationship with L and they paint him as such a sweet, attentive and thoroughly unique individual that I was surprised by how detailed it was. If you're thinking about playing, then this part is definitely worth putting effort into.

The mechanics of the dating sim are relatively simple: during the adventure, you'll pick up a number of recipes hidden among traps and tools. Then, Watari will provide the ingredients and you can give L whatever sweets he specifically craves. These recipes and cravings depend on the time of day and can be season specific.

Character analysis

As stated in-game, giving L sweets causes his appreciation for the MC to grow. However, L being L, means that he craves different sweets throughout the day. He's definitely very specific about what he likes and what he wants for his sugar fix.

However, if you give L something he isn't craving at that specific moment, he will sulk. The way he expresses his displeasure varies according to the depth of the budding relationship he has with the MC.

L: To tell you the truth, there are many other things I would have preferred. L: [F/N], I hate to say this, but I really would have preferred something else. L: F/N], you must know that I was hoping for something else, right? L: [F/N]… It’s not my favorite but, it made me really happy.

Note: Given that the books in the expanded universe (Another Note and L: Change the WorLd) came out before this game, I think some of the quotes further ahead might be a subtle nod to how L is perceived by the police forces as the "creepy murder detective". However, references about his piece of mind lead me to believe that L craves some respite from the burdens he carries on his shoulders — burdens so strong that they managed to curve his spine.

Note: I'm unsure how the system here works, as the MC also gets points for gaining L's trust in the actual adventure when they a) agree with his observations and b) find key objects hidden in unsuspecting places. It might affect the available lines through the L Communicator.

L: Today is going to be a better day… Let’s think positive. L: I wonder what kind of morning this will be. L: It seems the air outside is crisp this morning.

L: I want to finish what I need to get done before night falls. L: It’s nearly sunset. Time for children to go back home. L: If you just stare into space, night will be here before you know it.

L: It’s already evening… Time keeps passing me by. L: There’s something different about the air at night. L: Night-time, dusk… It’s the witching hour.

As a naturally introspective individual, L observes the world around him and draws conclusions. To my surprise, the game actually managed to capture how observant L is about small, unsuspecting details of daily life and give him a slightly poetic side laced with a hint of wistfulness that suits his character well.

This is a side of L in his private life that I personally wish we had been able to glimpse during the Kira investigation. Though, at the time, L was busy trying to prove that Light was, indeed, Kira. It left him little to no time to enjoy the world around him. During the brief time that L could have had a semblance of rest right before the Yotsuba arc, he was depressed that his deductions were "wrong" — though I could see him musing about some of the above, equal parts whimsy and sulking.

L: If I start to lose my touch… I guess I’ll retire. L: Another day, another mystery… L: I have a lot of thinking to do. L: I feel like doing some capoeira… L: I haven't played tennis for a while. L: The weather today is… Well, it matters not. L: I, um… No, ignore me. L: Am I reading too much into it…?

As a thinker, L has a lot of unfinished thoughts he says out loud. Some border on cliché, others are musings about things he'd like to do or that he's missing.

I wonder if some of his thoughts end up trailing off because, suddenly, he catches himself and believes they're not important? Or that he doesn't think the MC would be interested in what he has to say beyond work matters?

L: “In spring one sleeps a sleep that knows no dawn.” Though, too much sleep isn’t good for anyone. L: If you think about things persistently, noticing all the sides to them will come naturally. L: Strawberries… Despite the name, they aren’t actually berries. How berry disappointing. L: The one who has thought it through wins. It’s true for chess, and for deduction. But in the case of love… I don't know.

He's also a philosopher at heart, always thinking about the human condition. In these we can also witness his dry humour, silly puns along with a subtle desire to share his thoughts on the world and give helpful advice.

As for love, L is cautious but willing to learn. It's a topic where he's out of his depth.

L: Um, Watari is… L: I wonder if Watari’s asleep? L: What could Watari be up to? L: Today is Thanksgiving Day. I am truly grateful to Watari for his diligence.

I found it interesting how L's thoughts eventually go back to Watari and what he's doing. He's the one person that L relies on and whom he interacts with the most. Other people are passing acquaintances at best, who show little interest in L beyond work.

Notice how he mentions diligence? Although it is a utilitarian consideration, it also reveals a thankfulness for the comforts of familiarity and the peace of mind that trusting someone close brings. This is a topic we'll explore better at a later stage, i.e., how trust and acts of service work as a relationship builder.

Romance

Neutral stage

One of the first things I've noticed is that, during the early stages of the relationship, L is still very formal and quite a bit dismissive — even borderline rude. As his sugar fix gets sated by the MC's keen suggestions (Watari provides the ingredients, of course), L grows gradually more fond of them and wants to include the MC in his life with an enthusiasm I can only define as endearing.

L: Aren’t you bored? You don’t have to check in on me. L: Don’t you have stuff to do?

At the beginning, L is still wary of the MC on a personal level as they have absolutely no rapport beyond a partnership of circumstance and usefulness in the name of justice. He's quick to get bored and doesn't take it very well when he's given sweets he isn't craving. A bit childish, one could say, the way he sulks when the MC errs by not reading his mind.

L: Did I enjoy it? Let me just say “no comment”. (about sweets that weren't quite to his taste)

It's also very in-character for L to feel both annoyed at someone who is randomly calling him and be suspicious of their motives.

Growing interest

L: Spending the afternoon with you isn’t so bad. L: Even though it’s late, you’re not going to bed, huh? L: You must be a night owl, [F/N]. L: I’m a little curious about you, [F/N]. L: Are you having a good time? I’m just curious. L: You’re kind of… Ah, no, forget I said anything.

He starts addressing the MC by their first name as he becomes more enamoured. It's very sweet. I was pleasantly surprised at how attentive L becomes as he gradually comes to the conclusion that this is a person who understands him.

Mind, due to game mechanics the MC gains approval by giving L sweets, but from a narrative perspective what's really happening is that L not only feels seen and understood, but also accepted. And when that happens, he starts lowering his walls and relaxing.

As a plot device, I would say these are defining moments within L's thought process here; he's curious about the MC, finds them interesting enough to want to know more them and pursues that curiosity to see what they might have in common. It seems he's both a little baffled and content about this development.

L: [F/N], what do you think of when you see a sunset? L: What are you doing this afternoon? Oh, should I not have asked? L: Are you a night owl? Oh, you don’t have to answer if you don’t want.

It should also be noted that L is very mindful of boundaries. There's a tentative, almost shy attempt to connect. He's determined to indulge in his curiosity since the MC's attentiveness towards him shows an opening for closeness he's unused to (but is happy about) and to tend to his more immediate needs (i.e., food cravings), which in turn shows a genuine concern for him. Aside from Watari, I doubt anyone ever extended L similar kindness.

And it is in this determination to get to know the MC that I also find Mello's words (AA: LABB Murder Cases) that L is actually a very active, aggressive individual with absolutely no interest in social conventions perfectly represent him this game, as he navigates a growing fondness with expectation, curiosity and caution — on his own terms, while minding that he doesn't overstep.

L: Staying up late talking to you… It makes me feel calm.

I find it particularly heartbreaking how this confession of L unknowingly makes it more transparent how burdened he is. The spine curved by burdens unseen, the addiction to mind games and sweets; all of these point to stress factors which isolate him further, increasing the loneliness and lack of affection in his life.

That L feels the need to mention the MC makes him feel calm seems telling.

L: We’re both late workers, huh? That makes me happy. L: [F/N]… You’re pretty formidable. L: It’s reassuring to have a partner like you. You’re someone I can trust. L: Your feelings have been received. (Valentine's Day) L: The fact we’ve become so close was an unexpected development on my part.

And here it is, the acknowledgement just as L enters the highest stages of approval, where he expresses admiration and happiness at the close bond he developed with the MC.

"An unexpected development on my part" is quite the turn of phrase. One can only wonder, but I'd make an educated guess that L didn't see this coming because:

a) no one showed feelings towards him before. In his line of work, hidden behind a screen there is no time to indulge or get attached to anyone (he would mistrust their intentions anyway) and so L keeps everyone at arms length, sharing little more than a professional side of himself and fostering utilitarian relationships that help him win "games". L ultimately carries various burdens the average civilian would never be able to understand, all due to the pressure of his job. When failing at the "game of cat and mouse" means being responsible for the likely deaths of dozens, perhaps even hundreds or thousands, the stakes are up in unimaginable ways. What started as a thrill chase can have catastrophic consequences should L fail. That in itself alienates him from society at large. It's a game that L plays well and absolutely profits from, but it is also an indicative of two major flaws: his addictive personality and how he suppresses his emotions to carry on. Coincidentally, it's the expanded universe, in particular Another Note: LA BB Murder Case and L: Change the WorLd, that give us the best insight into this. This isn't too dissimilar to the struggles policemen face in high risk jobs or technicians who have to flag and delete sensitive content from online platforms. These people end up changed from what they see — and some carry traumas for the rest of their lives. That's not to say that L doesn't feel for others. He respects people whom he considers good or morally upstanding (Soichiro Yagami), who are competent in their line of work (Naomi Misora, Mogi), worthy of a second chance (Aiber and Wedy), who speak their minds, unafraid (Aizawa) or who are reliable, loyal to him as a person and not just his cause, in whom he can place his trust and feel secure won't betray him (Watari). The MC seems to fall mostly in the last category, though the relationship is rather precocious — and there seems to be a fair amount of wishful thinking and even projecting on L's part, since communication happens over a device connecting two people remotely. He falls both for the idea of the individual and their attentiveness towards him. When L mentions that they make him feel calm, I'd argue it comes both as a surprise to him and a confession of a closeness and safety he intimately craved — though I personally view L as someone who feels lonely and wanting healthy human contact, even if his social skills might not be the best (worsened by his distrust of people as a whole). Someone who ultimately is willing to adapt to him but whom he can adapt to, as well. Someone who sees him as a person and not an unfeeling robot. It's a POV that certainly challenges certain aspects of DN: Vol 13. I would further argue that L's portrayal has evolved significantly beyond the manga, and that his subsequent humanising is partially a result of the creative liberties the English translations took, as well as a more empathetic view of the character and hidden struggles. Each medium displays a separate iteration of L, with common variables.

b) L fosters distant relationships with others as a safety measure. Aside from Watari, L's contact with other people had always been distant, work-focused, perhaps even tainted by notions of his supposed creepiness as a kinky detective "who relished bizarre murders" (L:CtW). He's useful to the police because he achieves favourable results, though L is still viewed as "a human computer, capable only of measuring mass murders in terms of cold numbers, a reclusive sociopath" (L:CtW). He isn't necessarily liked; in fact, I would argue he rubs people the wrong way most of the time — as we can see during his interactions with the Task Force, during the events of Death Note. L is tolerated, a useful asset who is both mysterious and a pain to deal with. However, he's also put on a pedestal due to his status (i.e., Relight, the children at Wammy's). For the latter, he purposely shatters their idea of L as this unbeatable, paragon of justice by defining himself as a monster (anime), a dishonest cheating human being who hates losing (manga). I do share in lux-mea-lex's perspective on L doubting his own humanity and how it fuels a certain self-hatred for distrusting everyone around him. As lux mentions, "love comes with trust" and L is an excellent detective precisely because he questions everything and everyone — but it comes at a cost: his own loneliness. To draw a parallel, L's ultimate flaw — and that which makes him great at his job — is not unlike what we see during the moments of extreme anguish that Veronica Mars goes through in her personal relationships and which draw people away from her when she oversteps boundaries to prove she's not being lied to. That mistrust comes from experience, for people burdened with having seen too much and it's not unlike a kind of paranoia acquired when one has to deal with the worst of humanity on a daily basis.

Full reciprocity

L: [F/N] you’re the light that illuminates the dark night. That’s an exaggeration of course, but… L: What I need to live is glucose… and to talk to you. Nourishment for my brain and heart. L: When we’re together, I feel like there’s no problem we can’t solve. L: The afternoons I get to spend with you are precious to me.

When the MC achieves the stage of full reciprocity with L, he's very open to showing vulnerability and lowering his emotional defenses. I found this to be particularly sweet, as L is such a secretive man with so many hidden layers that him being willing to show such honesty with that one person he holds dear is incredible character development.

Beyond the game, I would say that achieving this stage with L would be much more difficult and, naturally, would involve going beyond picking the best sweets for him.

Something important to keep in mind is that L seems to value acts of service, as the people who interact with him more closely have some utility value and aid his work. However, L's life revolves around his work; he lives and breathes his detective work, which is why having a partner who brings him peace would be so important.

L: The time I spend with you is as important to me as the sweets. L: Good morning. It makes me really happy to see you here. L: For your sake… I’d think of a way to get through anything. We share a bond. L: When you have time, I’d like to take you to a shop that makes the best sweets. L: When you’re free, how about we play tennis together? I will have Watari reserve a court. L: If something were to happen to me… I want you, as the person I hold dearest, to carry on the L moniker. L: When my thoughts hit a dead end late at night, I feel like I’m stuck in a maze. But, having you here makes me feel reassured.

I also found it very sweet how L takes the initiative to plan for activities to do together with the MC. And how their presence, their reassuring words make him feel at ease. It seems that a loving relationship would give L a goal in life beyond his work.

Carrying on the L moniker... this quote might be the result of L's trust in the MC growing during the events of the game, or a sentiment L nurtures due to the MC being attentive enough to understand his specific cravings. But being able to read L and having the mental dexterity to become him are different things, as the latter involves a lifestyle that few would want and a complete focus on work. Even FBI agents have lives beyond work.

L: I learned from you that sweets are the bond that brings people together. L: You give me true peace of mind. No one could ever replace you. L: The way I am now, I… I can’t think straight when you’re not around. L: Being able to share this sunset with you, I couldn’t ask for anything more. L: You understand, don’t you [F/N]? What my heart so strongly desires is something more… L: When I talk to you, I feel like my senses are sharpened. Thanks to that, my radar has become more sensitive.

What a sweet guy. I love how L focuses on the little things and just wants to spend time together with the person he holds dearest. It's almost as if he daydreams a close, loving relationship — a trait that clashes with L's logical side.

This game and the expanded universe of Death Note have convinced me that there are many more layers to L than what we can see in the main story.

As Fu Takahashi, who plays L in the 2020 Japanese version of the musical, said:

“(...) A common thing about L among these versions is that, despite his superficial image as a smart guy who hates losing, he actually feels lonely and needs affection, I imagine. Perhaps he is an orphan – his character suggests so. He tries to control his emotions, like the feelings towards his parents, or romantic feelings; that’s why he is sort of dependent on games or battles of the mind. So I want to play L while thinking about the foundations on which his personality has been formed.”

I think this quote and the game are actually very telling of L's core personality and how it moves beyond that cold, calculating persona that defines him in the manga. It's also more in line with the characterisation that we see in the anime and the books, which help humanise L.

As I mentioned elsewhere, learning how to trust and be comfortable around someone else would do L wonders. Though that person would have to accept him for who he is and help him learn how to navigate a healthy relationship.

Perhaps the true test of love, for L, would even be for him to be confronted with someone who knows who he really is and, is not only kind to him, but also sees the best in him — regardless of his flaws. I think that we've had a glimpse of it in this game and it's a breath of fresh air.

[nowmemoriees]

I was playing a Hellfire Club chapter in ST Puzzle Tales and... suddenly, Nancy showed up in the middle of the campaign under the name of Henrietta.

I can't believe how weird this whole interaction is after watching seasons 3 and 4, where Nancy is one of the main focuses of 001.

spoiler: this question had no answer, which is also weird.

...

[emblazons]

So uh. Not to go full parentified!Mike again, but: I just realized that the track that plays when Mike and El fight in The Monster & The Superhero (aka a kind of orchestral version of Eulogy) is also the same as the track that plays when Max goes behind her house, sees her mother and it turns into a Vecna vision in Dear Billy? Like:

It’s subtle, but if you listen to the full scenes it’s more apparent—and we all know that repeated use of track means, at the very least, exploring similar themes.

Given that this is the same track/leitmotif used in two other "familial" moments, aka when El watches Mama fade in the void and when Hopper tells El "its not about our fight/eat real food, not just eggos (x) " over the radio in the police van halfway through S02E06…it’s, once again, looking really damn bad for any ongoing romantic interpretation of Mike’s “care” for Eleven. 😭

Like? The scoring choice paralleling all of these scenes featuring familial bonds...somewhow sans mlvn? On top "Eulogy" being inherently connected to death/the loss of emotional connection in all cases, with special emphasis on letters in the S4 parallel scenes—

—all before we get to the Vecna or matching blue plaids aspect of it? It’s giving…platonic-familial (and also really tragic misunderstanding) mlvn. Just like everything else.

like. I said Max and El were paralleled in their depression re: Dear Billy before too, but this adds a whole new layer of Mike being paralleled to parental-authority figures, & in an especially tragic way.

part ii

[spencerreidswhore187]

Night Shift

Spencer Reid x Reader

Summary: In the pursuit of an audacious art thief, Spencer Reid and you engage in a thrilling cat-and-mouse game.

Word Count: 1.2k

In the dimly lit room of the FBI's Behavioural Analysis Unit, Special Agent Spencer Reid meticulously studied the pattern of a notorious art thief. Known for their audacious heists, the thief had been stealing famous religious paintings, leaving behind little evidence but a trail of intrigue and frustration. As Spencer delved into the case, he couldn't shake the feeling that there was more to this thief than met the eye.

It was another morning at the BAU, and the team gathered around the large round table, ready to discuss their latest case. Spencer adjusted his glasses, flipping through the files and crime scene photos, attempting to find a connection that eluded even the most seasoned investigators.

"Alright, team," Hotch began, his voice steady and authoritative. "We've got a new case. The thief has struck again, stealing 'The Madonna with Child' from the St. Augustine Museum. Reid, what have you found so far?"

Spencer looked up from his notes, his mind racing with information. "The thief seems to be specifically targeting religious paintings. There's a pattern in the choice of artwork, and I'm working on identifying any potential religious or symbolic significance."

As the team continued to brainstorm and strategise, a mysterious figure lurked in the shadows, watching them from a distance. You, the infamous art thief, observed the investigation unfold with a mix of amusement and fascination. The challenge of outsmarting the brilliant minds of the FBI excited you, and you relished in the chase.

Over the course of the investigation, Spencer's intellect and determination began to catch your attention. You found yourself drawn to the enigmatic agent, intrigued by the way his mind worked. As the thefts continued, the cat-and-mouse game between you and Spencer intensified, each move more calculated than the last. Each heist brought the two of you closer, like chess players engaged in an intricate dance, each move calculated and deliberate. Spencer found himself captivated by the mystery that surrounded you, your motives, and the brilliant mind that orchestrated these audacious thefts.

One day, after another successful heist, you received a mysterious message. An encrypted note left at the scene of the crime, challenging you to a meeting. Intrigued, you decided to take the bait.

The moon cast a soft glow over the secluded park where the meeting was set to take place. Spencer stood in the shadows, his eyes scanning the area. Suddenly, you emerged from the darkness, your face obscured by a hood.

"Special Agent Reid," you greeted, your voice low. "Impressive. You managed to find me."

Spencer's gaze was unwavering as he replied, "I'm not here to arrest you. I want to understand why you're doing this. There has to be a reason behind the choice of these paintings."

You chuckled, the sound echoing in the quiet night. "Curiosity killed the cat, Agent Reid."

But Spencer wasn't deterred. He continued to engage you in conversation, unravelling the layers of your motives and the intricate web of your past. As the night wore on, an unexpected connection formed between you and Spencer, a bond that transcended the roles of detective and thief.

The echo of footsteps resonated through the quiet museum as you emerged from the shadows, your face still concealed by the hood of your cloak. Spencer's gaze met yours, and for a moment, time seemed to stand still.

"You're quite persistent, Reid," you remarked, your voice laced with a mixture of amusement and intrigue.

"I need to understand why," Spencer replied, his tone earnest. "There has to be more to this than just stealing paintings."

A spark of curiosity flickered in your eyes as you engaged in a battle of words, each probing the other's vulnerabilities. The conversation danced between danger and desire, the line between captor and captive becoming increasingly blurred.

The stolen artworks were not just random targets; they held a deeper meaning, a connection to your past that even you hadn't fully unravelled. Spencer, with his keen intellect, became the key to unlocking the mysteries that shrouded your motives.

The heists continued, each one revealing a layer of complexity in the relationship between the art thief and the profiler. Spencer found himself torn between duty and an inexplicable attraction that defied logic. You, in turn, struggled with the emotions that surfaced as you got to know the man behind the badge.

In the quiet moments between heists and investigations, there were stolen glances and fleeting touches. The air was charged with unspoken words, the tension simmering beneath the surface. A slow burn, like a fuse inching its way toward an inevitable explosion.

One night, after the recovery of yet another stolen masterpiece, Spencer found himself standing in front of you, the weight of the investigation heavy on his shoulders. "Why did you choose me?" he asked, his eyes searching for answers in the depths of yours.

You hesitated, the vulnerability in your gaze betraying the walls you had built. "Because you see beyond the surface. You see the person, not just the criminal.”

The admission hung in the air, a silent acknowledgement of the connection that had formed between you. As the investigation intensified, the line between right and wrong blurred further. Spencer found himself grappling with the realisation that the art thief he was chasing was not just a criminal but a complex individual with layers of pain and redemption.

In the midst of a high-stakes operation to recover a stolen painting, the unexpected happened. A moment of danger, a shared adrenaline-fuelled escape, and the realisation that the lines between love and justice had become indistinguishable. The slow burn ignited into a fiery passion that neither of you could deny.

The aftermath of the operation left you standing in the dimly lit room, surrounded by recovered artworks. Spencer approached you, his gaze intense yet tender. "I can't just let you go, but maybe there's another way. Join us, and work with the FBI. Help make amends for what you've done."

And so, the notorious art thief became an unexpected ally, a consultant to the BAU. The slow burn of your connection continued, navigating the complexities of love and redemption. Spencer and you found solace in each other's arms, the weight of the past gradually lifting as you embraced a future that defied expectations.

The dance between the art thief and the profiler had evolved into a love story, a journey that transcended the boundaries of law and order. As the days turned into months, the BAU faced new challenges, but with the strength of an unexpected bond, they confronted each obstacle together.

In the quiet moments, between stolen glances and whispered confessions, Spencer and you discovered that love, like art, was a masterpiece that took time to unfold, layer by layer, brushstroke by brushstroke, in the canvas of their intertwined lives.

A/N: Thank you for reading ◡̈

[stranger-rants]

Hi, did you watch the new stranger things game that just came out? I found the full walkthrough video on YouTube and there is an entire chapter dedicated to Billy’s possession, which shows the horrible things Vecna says to him while he is trapped inside his mind. SPOILER ALERT (just in case):

Some of them are:

“This is what the world does to people who are no longer of use. And you have never been of use to anyone, Billy.”

“Are you lost, Billy?Want me to call your mommy for you?” “Doesn’t look like he has one of those” “but everyone has a mom!” “Not so, my infernal friend… not when you are utterly unlovable. You know anything about that, billy? What is it like to be so hard to love that everyone leaves you?”

“About eight years from now, Sammy’s elderly father will start shaking him mid argument. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Sons are such a disappointment. Why didn’t you take out the trash? Why didn’t you hit the home run? Why didn’t you make your mom stay?”

And there is also a flashback of Billy helping out Max with a bruise she got while skateboarding… but that’s in Max’s chapter, which is the last.

I’m still shocked by the amount of content we got thanks to this game btw, and a lot of it regarding billy wasn’t even super clear so it would be so interesting to see meta analysis of that!

Thanks for reading btw, have a good day <3

I have not watched or played any ST games, but I appreciate the information. Why is everything we learn about Billy so much sadder? :(

[certainty2witch]

I put my attention on this Argyle phrase and it can hide something interesting about a symbolism.

He mentioned dominoes, the piece of the game, and we all know what means when dominoes fall. One piece fall, the ones behind that one, will all fall too.

And that’s how the domino theory works.

Of course Argyle mentioned that because well Domino’s pizza is another pizza place, is all about competition. And is a word pun, since dominoes are the game pieces and they can fall, so domino’s pizza is gonna fall too if surfer boy expands.

But is probably connected somehow to the place where they go for help El going inside Max’s mind, because is the sign about the Surfer boy pizza in Nevada, that brought into Argyle’s mind that comment about dominoes (“ watch out domino. Your dominoes are gonna fall”).

And all the monologue happened right there, in a pizza place.

(Ps. Read the Alts)

So let’s repeat again what happens when a domino falls?

Yes guys…

All pieces behind are gonna fall too.

So by this little analysis: the first falling domino is mike and el relationship, their not sincere love makes the other dominos falling too (max’s death, upside down invading hawkings, the apocalypse…) you know a chain reaction.

And before some misunderstanding, no guys, I’m not blaming Mike for the end of the world, he’s just a 14y/o that still has to understand his feelings! As I don’t blame El too for the same reasons (i love both a lot, they need so much love) The situation was awful, they where forced to do something so big in a context where Max’s life was the priority and the enemy was dangerous af, poor babes. The blame is only on Vecna/001 and nobody else. But I think this symbolism can be super interesting. ST is full of stuff like this, from color theories to hidden objects in character’s room that represents them. (Oh talking about that I should finish my personal version of Mike’s room analysis!)

Hope i explained everything clearly, you can comment for asking something or expressing your opinion (no rude comments pls!)

Maybe I’m just crazy and I should sleep because is late here, so I really hope I explained all good.

[aemiron-main]

Who Is Edward Creel? If You’re Confused About Him, Read This Post

So, I’ve been seeing a lot of people asking about Edward Creel and who he is and what the hell people are talking about with him, so I figured I’d make a big general post about Edward. You can skip to the end for a bulletpoint TLDR summary.

Where Did Edward Come From?

I originally noticed him here, in the Indianapolis Gazette article about the Creel murders, and made an initial post about his name just being a reference to the idea of Vecna using Eddie/Edward Munson as a corpse puppet.

However, as I went through more of the Indianapolis Gazette, I realized that this goes WAY, WAY beyond “corpse puppet Eddie,” references, and rather than “Edward Creel being a reference to Edward Munson,” it’s actually the other way around, and Edward Munson is a reference to Edward Creel and has multiple lines that reinforce the idea of Edward being Vecna rather than Henry.

Here is a large post about some of the timeline differences, and it’s a post that���s been sitting in my drafts for a LONG time and is what initially prompted me to look further into the multiple timeline stuff/the concrete differences between Edward’s timeline and Henry’s timeline.

As far as “where did Edward come from in-universe?” goes though, THAT is a much more complicated question, one that I’m still trying to answer.

Who Is Edward Creel?

So, who IS Edward? Well, I very much think that Edward is Vecna, and here’s why:

1.) I talked in this post about the parallels between ST and Jekyll and Hyde, specifically regarding Henry Creel and Edward Creel versus Henry Jekyll and Edward Hyde, and how Jekyll and Hyde and ST tie into Carl Jung’s theory of the shadow. I would recommend reading that post for a solid intro into the idea that Edward is Vecna and the relationship between Edward and Henry and Edward being Henry’s “shadow self”.

2.) Eddie/Edward Munson is literally Vecna in the DND game- just like how Edward Creel is actually Vecna, they’re meant to parallel eachother.

3.) All of the name weirdness where there’s that whole scene with Robin and the Hawkins gang being uncle to figure out what to call Vecna (Vecna or Henry or 001), and how even though the supposed plot twist was that Henry was Vecna, it’s actually that 001 was Vecna, and we don’t know for sure if Henry is 001 due to the Edward weirdness, and all of the continued debate about names after the supposed plot twist/reveal tells me that we still aren’t done learning about who Vecna actually is. Especially since at the end of S4, Will just talks about “him,” and how he can still feel him, and doesn’t name him. You’d think if Vecna was Henry, they’d throw in a reference to Henry there, and that in general, they’d draw a stronger link between Henry and Vecna rather than drawing that link between 001 and Vecna, which is what they’ve done.

4.) There's some other reasons too, but I'm still finishing up the analysis posts for those.

How Is Edward Creel Connected To Henry Creel?

So, this is a question that ties into the question of “where did Edward Creel come from in-universe?”, and as such, is also a difficult question to answer. However, right now, these are the main theories about where Edward came from and how he’s connected to Henry (none of these are in any particular order, like 1.) isn’t the top theory or anything):

1.) Edward was split off or cloned from Henry in Hawkins Lab as part of Brenner’s attempts to recreate Henry, and then something happened with timeline and time travel weirdness, and Edward ended up with his whole own timeline where he grew up in the Creel house instead of being cloned/born in a lab.

2.) Edward and Henry are eachother’s naturally-occurring equivalents from different timelines, and one or both of them and/or the lab were messing with time and ended up swapping timelines/temporal displacement stuff.

3.) Henry and Edward were born as actual brothers in the same timeline but something happened with timelines splitting and they ended up in different timelines.

How Is Edward Connected To Timeline and Time Travel Weirdness?

So, I already talked about this post where I compare Edward’s timeline with Henry’s timeline and all of the drastic differences, but it goes beyond just different timelines, because we have all that imagery of Henry/Edward turning back a clock with his mind, and all of the general timeline weirdness/time travel imagery in ST, in addition to Vecna’s clock imagery.

I’m still figuring out exactly what happened and how he’s connected to Henry and timeline weirdness, but there’s definitely a big connection there, especially considering birthdaygate and the fact that in Edward’s timeline, the Creel murders happened on Will’s birthday.

Transcription of The Indianapolis Gazette Article Involving Edward

So, this is just a transcription of the article relating to the Creels, not all of the articles in the page (although I AM finishing up analysis posts of those articles).

Paper Title: Indianapolis Gazette

Publication Date: Thursday, March 26th, 1959. (MIGHT say 1958, but most likely 1959)

Article Title: 3 Dead as Police Probe Grisly Scene

Subtitle: Bodies Left Mutilated, Eyeless, Creel Defiant

Column 1:

Bulletin

"Local family man, Victor Creel, murdered his wife and two small children Saturday night.

The bodies were discovered early Sunday morning after Creel was found wandering aimlessly along the side of Highway 49, South of Hawkins.

Deputy John Snow from Hawkins Police Department intercepted Creel and made the discovery upon returning him home. The bodies of three persons have been found inside the home of a 35-year-old Town of Hawkins Roane County family man. Law enforcement officers searching Sundary Morning for signs of foul play found the bodies of Virginia Creel, Edward Creel, and Alice Creel strewn about the foyer of the house, six miles from downtown Hawkins.

Sherif fJack Kaulfield of Roane County and Director Larry Peacefield of the State of Indiana Crime Laboratory kept newsmen from the site Sunday.

Roane County Dist. Atty. ParkerJones said today that Creel had broken his silence that he "might of" killed the victims and admitted to being present when the victims died. Shortly after 11 o'clock, this morning, Creel was taken from the jails at Hawkins by Jack-" (article cuts off)

Column 2

"Officers who had been at the scene said these things were among those found at the Creels' home: The eyeless, mutilated body of Mrs Creel, "butchered, like you would clean a deer," according to one law enforcement officer. The mangled and eyeless bodies of the two young children- Virginia and Edward- laid deflated and bent on the floor of the foyer. Creel at first told authorities he knew nothing about the things that occurred at his house. He is decribed as 5 feet 10 inches tall, weighing about 158 (?) pounds, with light skin, light brown hair, and "appearing slight and unable to perform basic motor functions"- a condition likely brought on as a result of the psychological consequences of committing the murders, said head psychiatrist at Pennhurst Asylum, Alexis McMurry. Creel was known around town for his generosity and the Creel Family was regularly seen at Sunday Mass at St. Phillip's Catholic Church on Sundays. Which has led many locals to wonder what led Creel to commit such ghastly acts. A veteran from the second world war, VIctor Creel served two tours of duty in Europe and returned home a hero. After moving to-" (article cuts off)

Caption Under Photo

House of Horror

Here is the house in which the Creels lived for the last two years where authorities found the remains of Alice, Edward, and Virginia Creel- Victor Creel's wife, son, and daugther- Early SUnday in what police are calling "the most grisly set of murders the town of Hawkins has ever seen"

What Is Edward’s Timeline/Thw Indianapolis Gazette Timeline?

Here’s the key events and info that you should know if you’re interested in Edward’s timeline/the Indianapolis Gazette timeline:

Edward moved to Hawkins in 1957 and lived there for two years.

Edward’s father is Victor Creel, and his Victor is 35 years old as of 1958.

Edward’s mother is Alice Creel, and her age is not listed.

Edward’s sister is Virginia Creel, and her age is not listed.

The Creel Murders happened on March 21st, 1959 in Edward’s timeline.

How are Connie Frazier and Alice Creel and Mike Wheeler and Eleven Connected To The Edward Timeline?

Remember how I mentioned that Edward’s mother is named Alice, NOT Virginia (unlike Henry, whose mother is Virginia)? Well, that’s who “Mother Alice,” is (if you’ve seen me using that name on my blog), and I also think that she’s Connie Frazier.

I originally posted here about Connie being Henry’s sister, Alice, prior to the realization of how she connected to the Edward timeline, but then that turned into the realization that Connie is more likely Edward’s mother, Alice, rather than Henry’s sister, Alice. I’d recommend reading that post, so I’m not going to retype it all here, but the name “Alice,” plays repeatedly in the song “White Rabbit,” when Connie is on screen. I’ve got more Connie posts here and here. Mother Alice’s death in the Hawkins Middle School hallway in S1 even parallels Daughter/Sister Alice’s death at the Creel house in 1959.

In this post, I talk further about Connie being Mother Alice, but I also talk about something/someone else in that post- Karen Wheeler.

I think that Karen Wheeler is Sister Virginia/Virginia Creel from another timeline (the Edward timeline). I’ve got more posts about Karen being Daughter Virginia and Virginia-Karen parallels here, here, here, and here.

As well, @henrysglock has a bunch of great posts about how Eleven ties into this, as Eleven is likely Edward’s daughter in one timeline (daughter in the sense that he’s her biological father due to Brenner trying to recreate Henry/Edward).

However, if Eleven is Edward’s daughter in the Edward timeline, and Karen Wheeler is Edward’s sister in the Edward timeline, then doesn’t that make Mike and Eleven blood cousins? Yes.

I posted here, here, here, and here, about Edward Timeline Victor being Karen/Daughter Virginia’s father and therefore being Nancy, Holly, and Mike’s grandfather.

Summary

So, here’s the current main thoughts to know about Edward Creel:

He was originally found here, in the Indianapolis Gazette.

He is very, very likely Vecna, rather than Henry Creel being Vecna.

He has a timeline that is different from Henry Creel’s timeline.

Even in the definition of a timeline as “a series of dates,” and setting time travel/multiple timeline weirdness aside (even though he IS very much involved with that) his series of dates is canonically, indisputably, different from Henry’s, thus, literally different timelines even in the most basic sense.

His mother is Alice Creel and his sister is Virginia Creel, the opposite of Henry’s mother and sister.

The Indianapolis Gazette DOES NOT mention Henry Creel at ALL. ONLY Edward and mentions him repeatedly as being Victor Creel’s son.

Edward’s father is still Victor Creel, but his Victor is younger than Henry’s Victor, as Edward’s Victor was 35 in 1959 and Henry’s Victor was 40 in 1959.

Edward Creel lived in Hawkins for two years, and moved there in 1957.

In Edward’s timeline, the Creel murders happened on the night of March 21st and were discovered on the morning of the 22nd (Will’s birthday), whereas the murders happened on the night of March 25th in Henry’s timeline.

Edward Creel’s body was supposedly found with his eyes gouged out (whereas Henry slipped into a coma after 7 days and did not lose his eyes), however, in both Henry and Edward’s case, there is ALWAYS the possibility of the lab creating fake bodies, which is what I think happened, especially since we see the same State Troopers involved with Will’s fake body arresting Victor.

Edward’s sister and mother also likely survived, which is where we get into more speculation, because I have the initial post here about Connie Frazier being Alice Creel and then a post here about Connie Frazier being Edward’s Mother/Mother Alice/Alice Creel from another timeline and about Karen Wheeler being Edward’s sisters/Sister Virginia/Virginia Creel from another timeline.

I’m still figuring out exactly how Edward and Henry are related, if they’re a.) just eachother from naturally-occurring alternate timelines, if they’re b.) twin brothers from the same timeline but separated into different timelines scientifically or supernaturally or c.) Edward being Henry’s clone as a result of Brenner trying to recreate Henry in a lab or split off from Henry, or vice versa, and then Edward getting to live at the Creel house/experience the Creel murders via timeline weirdness even though he was “born” in the lab.

There’s also a solid chance that there’s multiple Henries (possibly even three or four, for example) and one Edward, or multiple Edwards and multiple Henries etc etc, because there seems to be multiple timelines happening, and also there’s multiple different Henries/Edwards during NINA, all with different blood splatters on their jumpsuits, and all with completely different, changing child corpses during their massacre sequences.

There is a “Richard Brenner”, listed in the S1 final episode article about Will’s vanishing, and Edward and his timeline is likely connected to Richard Brenner rather than Martin Brenner, or Henry is connected to Richard and Edward to Martin, I’m still figuring that out.

Some of the S1 scenes, specifically the ones involving Connie Frazier, seem to be occurring in the Edward Timeline (or one of the Edward timelines/the Indianapolis Gazette timeline), because if Connie Frazier is Mother Alice Creel, then she exists in the Edward timeline, so when we see her, we’re seeing Edward’s timeline. Unless, of course, she got mixed up into another timeline, which is always an option.

I’m suspicious that Edward was watching the Creel family from the void or from another timeline (see: Will’s “True Sight”/however he was able to see the alphabet on the Byers’ wall from the UD in s1 and was “trapped in the walls”/in the Byers’ house) and that Edward is what Victor was “sensing,” in the attic, much like Billy sensing/seeing El in the void in s3 and Mike seemingly sensing El in the void in s2. Will being “trapped in the walls,” of the Byers’ house is likely going to come back with Edward and Henry in S5 and Edward being “in the walls,”/watching the Creels from the void or from another timeline.

One of the “Henries” monologuing to El during the massacre is very very likely Edward

Regarding what I said about Mother Alice being Connie Frazier and Daughter Virginia being Karen Wheeler in the Edward timeline, that would make Victor Creel the grandfather of Mike, Holly, and Nancy, and would make Connie Frazier their grandmother.

And if El is Edward’s daughter from the lab and Brenner trying to recreate him, then that would mean that Mike and El are blood cousins in the Edward timeline.

List of My Posts About Edward

Here’s a current list of my posts about Edward, and I’m finish up a new pinned post/directory that’ll have a continuously updating list of links to my posts about him! (here is the link to the edward pinned post section)

Who The Fuck Is Edward Creel? Original Discovery of Edward Creel Post (x)

Edward Creel is Vecna and Henry Creel is Innocent: The First Shadow, Edward Creel, Henry Jekyll and Edward Hyde, and Carl Jung’s Theory of the Shadow (x)

Initial Post About The Creel Murders Happening On Will’s Birthday In The Edward Timeline (x)

NOTE: I use “Henry” in this post because this was before I connected it to Edward being a separate person, so just swap “Henry” for Vecna, but the Indianapolis Gazette IS the Edward timeline.

Confirming That The Creel Murders Happened On Will’s Birthday In The Edward Timeline (x)

NOTE: Same as the other post, use “Henry” in this post because this was before I connected it to Edward being a separate person, so just swap “Henry” for Vecna, but the Indianapolis Gazette IS the Edward timeline.

The Creels’ Disappearing Door and Magic, Colour-Changing Wallpaper (x)

Birthdaygate and When Did The Henry-Edward Split Happen And Was Edward Watching The Creel Family From The Void Or Via True Sight From Another Timeline? (x)

Edward Creel and the Lost Brother (x)

Edward Creel is Totally Vecna- Eddie’s DND Scene (x)

Edward Munson and Henry Creel and Being Blamed For Murder (x)

Revisiting The “If We Just Go Based On Henry’s Monologue, We Would Have No Clue Alice Even Existed Until The End And He Never Mentions Her By Name” Post With The Context Of Edward (x)

The First Shadow: Shadow(s) of The Past and LOTR (x)

The Shadows of The Past Have a Very Long Reach (x)

The First Shadow: Demons In Your Past (x)

Edward Being Bolded On The S4 Movie Board (x)

You’re Not A Child vs I’m Not A Dog And Henry Or Edward Being “Not A Child” (x)

Edward and Henry and 001 vs 000 (x)

Henry’s Colour-Changing Socks (x)

I Don’t Know What That Thing Is But It’s Not My Son- Victor, Henry, Edward, and Vecna (x)

Why Are We Seeing Through The Eyes of Someone The Same Height As Henry So Often? And Why Did Henry Look Up At The Camera? (x)

How Does Timeline Theory Stuff Tie Into Other Events In ST and How Does It Tie Into The Themes of ST and How Are The Duffers Going To Pull It Off Without Blindsiding the GA? (x)

Something Was Wrong With Me Vs What Is Wrong With My Boy (x)

Lost In The Darkness vs Hiding In The Darkness vs Hiding In The Shadows vs Good At Hiding (x)

Is Sam Owens Edward’s Father/Victor Creel From Another Timeline? (x)

“Well, my hair was buzzed and i didnt have these sweet old tatties yet”- Another Eddie Munson vs Edward Creel Parallel (x)

Just Move Your Date This One Time: Edward and Moving Dates (x)

All Your Theories About It Are Wrong, Because I’ve Seen One and Fought One: Edward Creel is Vecna/001 (ft Which One Is It?) (x)

The Lab IDs That Kali Dumped Out Vs Edward and Henry (x)

Edward Creel and the Criticism of Eddie Munson Being a Pointless Character (x)

Henward’s Plinko Reflection (x)

Henward Standing Like Alice Vs Standing Like Young Henward (x)

That’s The One: Will and 001 and Edward Creel (x)

I’m Eleven, You Long Haired Freak (x)

Edward, Eddie, and Straitjackets (x)

Joseph Quinn and Jamie Bower Doing Press Together, ST5, and Edward Creel/Vecna Using Eddie Munson as a Flesh Puppet So That Jamie Is Freed Up To Play Henry Creel (x)

Reblog of Stav’s Post Regarding Edward Creel, Eddie Munson, Reefer Rick, Richard Brenner, and Will’s Vanishing vs Eddie Hiding Parallels and Eddie Being Mistaken For Rick (x)

Eddie The Banished vs Edward Creel and Eddie’s Death Scene vs Edward Creel/001 Getting Sent To Superhell (x)