#the only difference between me and a roy is how much of the world i can glibly destroy with one petty comment

[echthr0s]

"which Roy sibling are you" my friend, I have CPTSD. I am all of them

[sassydefendorflower]

People love to compare Roy and Bradley or Ling and Wrath, but I think there is a special beauty in the narrative parallels between Riza and Winry.

Because these woman manage to break out of the Shounen mold in a way that reaches beyond the Strong Female Character trope and quickly secures itself as... good character writing. Period.

And they do so in a very clever way. Someone else on here once pointed out that Hughes/Mustang/Hawkeye are the trio that runs parallel to Ed/Al/Winry and while they aren't narrative foils to each other - at least not in the way many of the other characters are - they do present a similar function within the story. The three young people who went on an adventure. Only Hughes died and Riza and Roy were permanently altered - and Ed, Al, and Winry got a chance to save the world.

But especially when it comes to Riza and Winry there is something more to the comparison. Especially when it comes down to the choices they made.

But why are Riza and Winry more interesting?

Because when Roy recruits Ed and Al, Riza tells Winry that she followed Roy into the military because she had someone to protect - and this - in other stories - would clearly be a setup for Winry later following Ed and Al into the military to "protect" them. A direct parallel between the two "girls" in a Shounen trio. We've all seen it before.

And I think we see Winry play with that thought when she sticks around Central with them after her first apprenticeship in Rush Valley - she tries to be the third girl to Ed and Al's action duo… but it doesn't work out.

She - strong, clever, genius, confidant Winry Rockbell - suddenly feels weak. Because she can't punch danger away from Ed. She can't repair Al's scratches and dents. She can't kill Scar to save her friends and avenge her family. She can't learn how to shoot and kill just to protect her friends - no, that's not quite correct, is it? She won't. She won't learn how to kill.

And that sucks. Because Winry isn't used to feeling like that, so lost and insecure, at least not constantly. Yeah, when Ed and Al are away, she worries, and that's part of the reason why she tried to join in, but that is nothing compared to the powerlessness she's facing now. Maybe she would worry less if she could be there when they fight, if she could protect them like Riza does with Mustang… but that's just not who she is.

Her job isn't to protect Ed and Al - her job is to give people arms and legs and good costumer service. I really like that scene/episode (23, me thinks) where she gets a phone call from Rush Valley and all these people ask for her to come back. Because Yes, Ed telling her thanks for helping him is VERY important for her character… and yet I think this phone call is the moment Winry realizes that she's not Riza. That she won't take a gun into her hands and kill for Ed and Al.

She will never be Armstrong or Hawkeye or even Izumi… she will be Winry Rockbell, automail engineer and genius.

And that's the reason why only she could have pulled Scar on their side. Because she chose healing over killing - her telling Scar in Baschool that she'd save his life because her parents would want her to honor their choice? That was Winry following the deeper themes of the show, by adding positive energy to the flow of the universe.

Riza saving Scar? Wouldn't have worked (why would he listen to the woman with a gun in her hands?). Armstrong helping Scar? Wouldn't have happened (what reason would General Armstrong have at this point to spare a murderer?). Mei saving Scar? Would have ended with the Ed/Marcoh/Scar/Al alliance falling apart (it is so much easier to fall apart if no one has been forced to see past the horror yet).

And it's not because these characters were even a touch less well written than Winry - if anything it showcases how unique all of the female characters in FMA were/are.

In this we find Riza again - because Riza chose differently than Winry. She followed Roy into the military, she learned and perfected how to shoot and kill. Their narratives mirror each other - Ed carefully prying a gun out of Winry's hands so she doesn't kill, only to give Riza a bloody gun a few episodes later, knowing she will clean it and use it to kill.

When Riza tells us that she has lost the right to feel squeamish about killing because of often she'd pulled the trigger, she is Winry's foil - Winry who was stopped before she could make a similar choice.

And it's not just that, is it?

Riza let her hair grow because a young Winry Rockbell had long hair and seemed to like it - and Riza needed a change after coming back from Ishval.

Winry got her ears pierced because the strong Lieutenant visiting them had looked cool (and because she needed a place for all of Ed's little gifts) - and Winry needed something steadfast, now that her friends were growing up.

There's just something about the two of them, so similar, so loyal and stubborn and full of love, that fascinates me. Because at every turn they make a different choice, at each turn one walks deeper into hell and the other chooses healing - and yet, while they couldn't be more different, they also couldn't be any closer.

I can't imagine how glad Riza was, when she realized Winry hadn't followed Ed and Al into the military.

I can only guess how happy Winry was, when she saw Riza follow Mustang further if only to make sure the future actually changed.

A mirror doesn't have to be a perfect thing, and if anything I think that is on purpose.

[mysterycitrus]

Your opinions are sooo correct & sexy! I wanna know what you think about the switch of Roy being Dick's friend to (primarily) Jason's friend. Like in terms of both canon & fanon

(no pressure to answer though, just curious!)

ive talked about this before, so im not being facetious when i say that i don’t think there is anything remotely salvageable in the jason+roy relationship. i hate it.

when u consider current comic canon (that’s more or less tepidly reverted to post-crisis, pre-2011 canon), there is literally no reason why a freshly single father would be besties with his actual best friend’s 12yo brother. it’s profoundly unserious. even removing dick from the equation, in what world would roy be closer to jason than he is to ollie or donna or dinah or wally or jade or connor or mia or grant or vic or grace or literally any of the other titans?

i truly don’t think fans who like their relationship in that capacity care about roy, his history as a character, or his characterisation, because he is reduced to a demeaning, dehumanised depiction of any addict that is so totally divorced from his previous runs. how can u look at the roy harper that exists in rhato canon and not feel insulted that lobdell removed his family, his culture, his teammates, and his daughter in favour of making him swoon over jason? how is this a remotely egalitarian relationship when he exists to facilitate jason’s development and nothing else? how is roy treated with any respect by these fans?

the spiralling fanon vortex pulls everyone around roy in and ruins them by association. think about how unkind these interpretations of ollie are, or jade, or dick. how the actual important people in roy’s life, who love him and lian, are demonised to make room for jason. how unsympathetic the writing is to addicts, and how roy’s own addiction is switched as if different substances are interchangeable? how can u seriously engage with stories about sexual assault that posit roy as a slut-shaming, immature asshole who would seriously blame anyone for their own assault? it makes me so angry.

that’s even ignoring that roy would objectively not be cool with the things jason does, whether it be dealing, murdering people, or attacking roy’s own sister. roy has a moral backbone and isn’t afraid to be loud about it. there’s never been a team he was on pre-reboot where he hadn’t spoken up against shitty leadership or bad decisions — especially with dick. the difference in respect between dick and jason, where roy is allowed to be an adult with the titans and the outsiders and the league but is the team pet of the outlaws who can’t advocate for himself, is very stark.

it’s literally like if they decided to change kon to be damian’s best friend instead of tim’s, ignoring the age difference and their history together and any pre existing relationships. that’s how absurd the change was. that’s how much kon would have to be mischaracterised in order for that relationship to “work.”

jason could exist as an interesting contrast to roy, the same way he does to dick, but that would rely on roy being written well. it would have to mean they weren’t friends, that they weren’t close, and that jason wasn’t an actual part of his life, because that’s the only way they could exist together without roy being thrown on the fire to keep jason warm.

[wlntrsldler]

now i see daylight | part ii: treacherous

song: treacherous by taylor swift

series description: set after lust conquers all, jamie returns to richmond and takes accountability for treating you like shit.

warnings: language-- it's ted laso, what did ya expect?; bff!sam, touch starved jamie and reader, A LOT OF ALCOHOL, richmond himbos

pairing: jamie tartt x f! reader

word count: 2054 words

series masterlist | main masterlist

When the whistle was blown for full time, the cheers in the arena were deafening. You couldn’t hear yourself think and everything seemed to slow. You stood behind Roy, clutching your camera, as you watched the sea of red and blue storm the field. You were only snapped out of your thoughts when Will jumped on your back, hugging you from behind. 

“We’re moving up!” Will screamed behind you, beaming from ear to ear. “Come on, Y/N, let’s celebrate!” 

You placed your camera on one of the seats under the tent and tossed a jacket over it. You followed Will into the middle of the field where all of the coaches, players, and fans were celebrating. 

“Dani Rojas you legend!” You yelled, running toward Dani. He grinned at you, picking you up by your waist to spin you around. “I am so fucking proud of you!” 

“Thank you, Y/N,” he put you down, holding you by your shoulders. “You will come to the after-party, yes?” 

“Wouldn’t miss it.” 

You made your rounds with all of the players. Most of them were so excited, they couldn’t say anything but, “Let’s goooooo!” Colin threw an arm around you and walked you over to Sam, who you still hadn't seen because of the chaos. When Sam saw you, he ran to you, smiling so wide you were sure his cheeks hurt. 

“Y/N! Can you believe it? We are back in the Premier League!” 

“I believe it. I knew you guys could do it.” 

“Thank you, Y/N,” he hugged you tightly. “Are you coming to the after-party? Please tell me you will. I can pick you up.” 

You tutted, “Samuel, I will be there but you are not driving tonight. You deserve to get absolutely trashed.” 

“Agreed, mate.” 

There was that accent again. You turned around to see Jamie, glowing under the lights. Ever since the day he cornered you in the hallway, he made do with his promise. He didn’t bother you again unless it was for work. You’ve been more courteous to him. You no longer ignored his “good mornings,” or “how are ya’s,” but you still kept your distance. However, your resolve was slowly fading. Being around him again made you remember why you were so drawn to him in the first place. With him being a different version of himself now, it increased that attraction tenfold. 

Sam looked between the two of you and smirked, walking away discreetly. He’s noticed the small smiles on your face whenever Jamie would come around. You tried to hide it, but Sam knew you too well. 

You turned your body to look at Jamie, shyly looking at him. Jamie met your eye, eyes twinkling in a way that you haven’t seen since the last night you shared with him. He had a boyish smile on his face. You pursed your lips, trying not to let a smile slip, but you were unsuccessful. Jamie’s eyes got brighter, which you didn’t realize was possible. 

“Great job, Jam.” 

Jamie let out a breath he didn’t realize he was holding at the sound of his nickname leaving your lips. He bit his bottom lip, stretching his hand out for a handshake, “I appreciate it, Y/N.” 

You rolled your eyes and smacked his hand away. You walked toward him and pulled him into a hug. Jamie froze in your arms for a second before melting into the hug and burying his face in the crook of your neck. You didn’t realize how much you missed him until you felt his arms tighten around your torso. It was like you finally got a taste of the thing you were craving for months as if there was nothing else in the world that could’ve made this moment sweeter, better. 

Your hand made its way to the back of his neck, where you cradled the back of his head, fingers softly tugging on his hair. It was muscle memory, how you used to cuddle him on his couch all those months ago. Jamie sighed into your skin, his warm breath awakening you from the trance you were under, causing you to pull away. 

Both of your faces were flushed when you pulled apart. Jamie cleared his throat, looking down at his feet, before vaguely motioning somewhere as if there was something requiring his attention. You did the same, leaving to go in the opposite direction as him. 

You turned around and saw Keeley with a smirk on her face, arms crossed with a knowing look. “World must be ending, I suppose?” 

Blushing, you shoved her lightly, “Shut up.” 

In true Captain fashion, Isaac rented a giant party bus for all of the players and a few special guests, including you, Keeley, Roy, and Will. The bus was taking all of you to a club in London that Isaac bought out for the night to celebrate the win and promotion. Roy, who should know better now that he was a coach, denounced his coach-ship before he stepped foot on the bus, stating that tonight he was “going to have the fucking time of my life!”

When you walked into the bus with Sam, you were hit with the sound of a club beat. Players were already a few drinks in from the bottles of beer and liquor scattered around the bus. Jan Maas was holding onto the pole, laughing as he fist-pumped to the song. Richard had a bottle of red wine in his grasp, which you later saw had a sticker on it that said “Property of Richard Montlaur.” Colin and Isaac were in the corner singing into a bottle of gin when “Hotel Room Service” by Pitbull started playing. 

Sam was pulled from you by O’Brien who made him take shots. With you both being the last two the team was waiting for, the bus lightly jerked as it began its journey to London. The entire team cheered, raising bottles in the air. 

You laughed as you tried to make your way around the bus, trying to find a friendly face that wasn’t too far gone. You knew all of them would regret this in the morning. You turned to your right and found Jamie and Dani sharing a bottle of tequila, laughing at something that you’d later learn was not that funny. 

“Y/N!” Dani yelled when he saw you. He scooted over on the leather bench, leaving a space next to Jamie for you to occupy. “You are here!” 

“I am!” You replied, shaking your head at how far gone the boys already are and you’ve barely even left Nelson Road. “How you guys feelin’?”

“Fuckin’ fantastic,” Jamie replied, taking another sip from the bottle. He handed it to you, which you took. You drank some and grimaced when the strong taste hit your tongue. 

The two boys laughed as you passed the bottle to Dani. Dani stood up, holding onto the pole that Jan Maas was holding earlier, and began to make his rounds in the bus. He kept offering the bottle to anyone he saw. You couldn’t help but laugh at how they all took the bottle from Dani, despite not liking tequila. 

“‘M glad you’re here.” 

Your attention focused back on Jamie, who was staring up at you. His eyes were clouded, eyelids droopy. You playfully punched his shoulder, “How are you already drunk?” 

Jamie furrowed his eyebrows, “You and Sam were so late. We had to get started without you lot.” 

“We were thirty minutes late.” 

“A lot can happen in thirty minutes.” 

You snorted. It made Jamie smile. He bumped your knee with his. You looked at where your bodies touched. Your breath got stuck in your throat. You swallowed, “I guess I need to catch up.” 

“Damn right,” a lopsided smirk graced his lips. He dug behind him in the ice bucket and pulled out a bottle of Clase Azul. He handed it to you, “Go on then.” 

“Menace,” you replied, grabbing the bottle from him. Your fingers brushed, sending shocks throughout your entire body. “You know I can’t say no to good tequila.” 

“Yeah, that’s why I bought it,” he shrugged, opening a beer. “I bought it for you. Nearly broke Bumbercatch’s arm when he tried to open it earlier.” 

“Jamie, this is an expensive bottle of tequila.” 

“Yeah well, Coach wouldn’t let me buy the whole team PS5s as a sorry, but he didn’t say anything about buyin’ you expensive liquor.” 

You were sure that Jamie was only saying this because the alcohol was clouding his better judgment. He probably won’t remember this in the morning, or at the very least, he’d wonder whether or not this was real life or just something his mind made up. You opened the bottle and took a long swig from it. 

As good as the tequila was, you still grimaced, frantically searching to find a chaser. Jamie, who remembered your drinking habits, held out a cup of Diet Coke. You downed the entire cup, sighing in relief when the taste of tequila was masked by the sugary drink. “Thanks, Jam.” 

“Missed you callin’ me that,” he admitted, a look of longing on his face. “Missed you in general, to be honest. Been hell without you in my life.” 

“Jamie,” you started, turning your body to him. “You’re drunk so I suggest you stop talking.” 

“Am I makin’ you uncomfortable?” Jamie asked, concern on his face. He sobered for a moment, blinking back as if he was trying to figure out what he just said. 

“No, no,” you assured him, placing a hand on his thigh. He tensed under your touch, letting out a shaky breath. You were really close to each other now. “You’re not making me uncomfortable. I just don’t want you to say anythin’ you’ll regret in the morning.” 

“Don’t think that’ll happen,” he said, nonchalantly. He took a sip from his beer, trying not to move too much in fear that you would remove your hand from his thigh if he did. Hesitantly, he started drawing figure eights with his pointer finger on your hand that was touching him. He let out a breath when you didn’t pull away. “Been regrettin’ not saying anything to ya. Should’ve told you how I felt that night. Or any night after that, really. I was just bein’ a prick ‘cause I was hurt that Richmond let me go.” 

You stayed silent. You didn’t know what to make of his words. Was he talking about the night you told him how you felt? Surely not. What does he mean by tell you how he felt?

Jamie continued, “And the thing was, I knew Richmond had no say in whether or not I was goin’ back to Man City, but it still hurt, I guess. Woke up to a text sayin’ I had to go back to Man City from my agent. Not even a text from Ted, or Keeley, or you. Thought I didn’t mean nothin’ to any of ya, so I just shut everyone out.” 

“And it’s real shit of me to do, ain’t it? Especially how I treated ya. I don’t blame you for not forgiving me or giving me a second chance.” He stopped drawing on your hand. He drank from his beer again. You looked at him. He had a small and nervous smile on his face. Testing his luck, he brought a hand up to touch your face. “Shame I fucked it all up really ‘cause you’re the only person I ever actually wanted to spend the rest of my life with.” 

“Jamie–” 

“Come on, party animals!” Isaac yelled from the front of the bus. Somehow the top five buttons of his shirt became undone during the drive. He slung an arm around Will, who had a tie wrapped around the circumference of his head, “Let’s get iiiiiittttttt!” 

The bus erupted in hollers as players trickled out of the bus. Sam, who was giggly under the influence, found you next to Jamie. Jamie, seeing that Sam was there to walk you out of the bus, waved goodbye to you and caught up with Bumbercatch. You held the Clase Azul bottle close to your body as you threw on a fake smile, walking off the bus with Sam.

--

part i: don't you

part iii: daylight

[lunar-years]

Okay. Let's talk Jamie and Roy getting beers and being idiots.

I know we are all still processing that whirlwind of a finale. I'm understanding that a lot of people hate the Roy & Jamie scene because it is 1) backslide-y (true) 2) they treat Keeley like a prize to be won (true) and 3) it's OOC (I actually disagree with this one, but I can understand why it's complicated). I want to start off by saying I completely see where this opinion is coming from and I respect everyone who just hates the scene because it shows normally kind characters being very unkind to each other etc. This is less me arguing against that as it is me trying to articulate (at great length, sorry) why it not only worked for me, but I genuinely liked it.

I like to think I strike a balance between loving everything the show has done and hating overwhelmingly on a show I claim to enjoy, but sure, you could definitely argue that I'm just giving my favorite characters the benefit of the doubt, or making excuses for them, because they're my favorite characters. I'll admit I'm historically very forgiving of all the main characters' many fuck-ups on Ted Lasso, but that's because I think the show works best when it emphasizes how kindness, forgiveness, friendship and love can still operate between imperfect, flawed people. I like seeing them make realistic mistakes much more than I like everyone handling everything perfectly, I'll bite.

So, back to Jamie and Roy. I enjoyed their finale plot because despite them making a world of mistakes, the regression felt very, very human. I don't agree at all with the take that this somehow erased all the progress they've made this season or the friendship the show has lovingly crafted between them. In fact, I think this actively reiterated it! (Note: I am operating with my ot3 goggles on at all times, so I'm going to write this with that at least partially in mind, but I think the gist of it works even if you ignore the bits that get a little shippy.)

For both Jamie and Roy, Keeley and their love for her is a major beacon guiding them. I think that is the crisp, clear thing in both of their heads this episode: Keeley is the love of my life. And they both believe that wholeheartedly, and they both want to be with her. (and it's goofy to pretend this came out of nowhere for Jamie/since when is Jamie still in love with her/etc. because he literally told her and us this last season and nothing that has happened since has indicated otherwise, btw.) But there's also something else now, which is their relationship with each other, battling with their Keeley thoughts. It's like, in Roy's head, for instance, I imagine there are two wolves: on the one hand he loves Keeley, and wants to be with her, and plans to win back her heart. On the other hand, there's his love and care for Jamie Tartt, which is much less defined and inarticulate and maybe still a little repressed, but just as overpowering. His love for Keeley feels so simple and clear in comparison, while his love for Jamie is something complicated and unsure, and in this episode, he's leaning hard into the first to avoid unpacking the second.

So Roy starts off strong. He sees Jamie with Keeley in the hallway and he doesn't flip out!! Instead, he approaches Jamie calmly, and invites him out for beers. Think about how different this is from his reaction to Jamie's love confession to Keeley in season 2. This is Roy's growth in action, and it's a resounding sign of just how important Jamie is to Roy now. Even when he is feeling jealous of the woman he loves potentially leaving him behind for a man he loves (a completely natural reaction, let's be so real, if not a "good" one), he also knows that for as much as he wants to be with Keeley, he doesn't want to lose his friendship with Jamie.

As for Jamie, I know some people took his reaction and subsequent response to Nate's question as like, shock at the realization that he and Roy are actually friends now, which I agree is something that had to have come earlier in the timeline (what was Mom City if not that) and would seem very out of place at this point. What I saw it as instead was Jamie's brain more just. sort of short-circuiting? Because: holy shit isn't this the best day ever? First Keeley agreed to go to Brazil with me and now Roy is asking me on a date for beers? this is so sound. This invite is out of place behavior from Roy even within the parameters of their friendship, because they still have a match to win and Roy has banned Jamie from beers as part of his training and despite them being close now I find it hard to believe that Roy often comes up to him right there in dressing room to ask him to grab a beer with no pretense.

Therefore, they're already walking into that bar in completely different head-spaces. Jamie isn't planning to discuss Keeley, and for Roy that is his major intention behind the evening. Jamie is nervous and downing his beer, and Roy is internally panicking, I'm imagining, over when and how to bring Keeley up. I think Roy is thinking: Well, I don't intend to stop pursuing Keeley, I genuinely don't want Jamie's feelings to be hurt when I get back together with her (and yes, it is a huge presumption for him to assume Keeley's going to eventually take him back. But I think it's also an understandable one), so I've got to tell Jamie I care about him, and that I'm going to keep going after Keeley, and he needs to be okay with that so that this won't get in the way of our friendship, which I also desperately need and am unwilling to give up. In his mind, Jamie is of course going to accept all of this, because Roy and Keeley are soulmates, which Jamie will clearly recognize deep down because it is so obvious and right and anyway, Jamie always does what Roy tells him to do (again, this is all misguided thinking. But we can see how Roy's anxious little brain that's bad at processing feelings and holding space for emotions could get himself here, can't we?).

So again, we start off strong with Roy saying he's proud of Jamie and them both thanking one another. But then Roy's blurting out nonsense about how Jamie just needs to pull himself out of the running and just let Roy be with Keeley. Which is obviously not on. And Jamie responds, simply, with No. I'd argue this is also a huge step for Jamie. Jamie really doesn't tell Roy no anymore, he doesn't tell anyone no. Jamie has spent so much of his time since coming back to Richmond working to be the person everyone around him wants and expects him to be. This is him fighting for something he wants for once, doing what is best for him. It was a fabulous progression to see. In the moment, boy does it work Roy up, because why is Jamie not agreeing with me, Jamie always agrees with me? but obviously at this point, Jamie is in the right. His relationship with Keeley was no less meaningful than Roy's just because Roy says it was, Roy doesn't have any claim on her, and there's no real reason Jamie should not try and shoot his shot with Keeley if Roy is going to do the same.

Here's where things start to spiral. Established flaws we know about Roy: he's competitive. He's bad at voicing his feelings productively. And he is territorial about the people he loves, a category that safely includes both Jamie and Keeley at this point in time, for better and sometimes worse. Yes, his next actions are grossly possessive over Keeley, yes Roy has made a lot of effort over the past year to do and be better than that, to break free of that cycle. But look, it's not a linear process. He's going to still mess up, and he does here. In fact he's downright mean, weaponizing Keeley against Jamie and throwing having sex with Keeley a month ago into Jamie's face, bragging about it, boasting. Same old cycle, same old patterns of ego-driven, prideful mistakes.

Which promptly prompts Jamie to also fuck up by bringing up the leak. It's a concentrated response intended to get a suitable rise out of Roy, because Roy has really, genuinely hurt him here, and Jamie knows bringing up that video is the one thing that will hurt Roy just as much in turn. It's not the right thing to do, obviously, but again, it's such a human thing to do. Hurt the person who's hurt you right back, even if you're hurting someone else (Keeley) by extension. Mind you, Jamie came here expecting a hangout (/date) with Roy over a rare beer, and instead he got Roy being a complete asshole and lecturing nonsense at him out of seemingly nowhere. He reacts to this change-up, well, not greatly. There is something so messy and emotionally complicated happening here and it hinges on how very much Jamie and Roy care about each other, not negates it.

Keeley, queen that she is, rejects them both out of hand and kicks them out not the curb immediately because they're both being complete idiots, acting like they're so gracious in giving her the honor and privilege of choosing between them. Not to mention they've clearly got something going on between them they haven't worked through and that sure as shit isn't her problem, is it? Keeley (presumably, and I wish we had seen this) calls them out their shit and tosses them right back out the door.

Which leaves Jamie and Roy to lament how they've let their egos get away from them, they've been idiots (which they acknowledge immediately) and decide that now they should go for kebabs, presumably to actually hangout this time, not to interrupt themselves with inflated talk about who "deserves" Keeley more. They both screwed up, they acknowledge it, and all they can do is try again tomorrow, and in the meantime, go on that kebab date.

I guess....I can just see where both of them are coming from? it's not mature behavior, obviously, it's maybe not what we would have liked to have seen from them in the finale episode of the show. But it was regression that I didn't feel impeded their overall progress. Roy in particular was being a complete dick about it, but that's why the very next morning he's finally knocking on the Diamond Dogs' door. And honestly, that conversation was heartbreaking. When Roy admitted he'd expected, after a year of putting in the work, to be a whole new person...god. This is a man who still completely hates himself, to the point where he can't quite grasp that he can be better where he's at now, that he doesn't have to transform magically into someone new in order to do right by himself and others. And so he has to consciously determine, once again, to do better, be better.

The message is: change isn't linear, you're going to fuck-up, and fall back into old patterns. What matters is trying every day to do better together, and be better for one another, than you were the day before. That is the meeting point all three sides of the royjamiekeeley triangle were heading towards by the end of the episode.

So yes, it was rushed, because no one gets much screen time in a finale (and the overarching issue with this season anyway is god awful pacing. The last three episodes could've easily been the second half of the season, while the first half of the season was stretched out and largely extraneous). And yes, I would've liked a more thoughtful follow-up conversation between Roy and Keeley or all three of them. My biggest issue was that we didn't get to hear Keeley's voice hardly at all. I would at the very least have liked to have seen her setting them straight at her kitchen table, because turning both of them down signifies very important growth in her, too, and I would've liked exploring that more explicitly. So it wasn't perfect. But I still liked it, I really did.

[lyssala]

I was trying to figure out They are stuck in my mind at all times and when I was thinking, I realized oh OH they're the same picture. So really I apparently just have a trope hierarchy to which if you resemble Roy/Riza in anyway you skyrocket to the top of my list.

Some ramblings about Clorinde/Wriothesley under the cut because I have no where else to do it. I'm sorry to all the people who've been my followers for years and I literally just come here once a year to drop a ship fixation LOL Here's my big dose of copium I guess 🤣

(For the record, I have nothing against the popular pairings for either of them; I multiship just fine. There isn't an ounce of ship bashing in this because 1. that's rude lol 2. discrediting canonical relationships because they threaten the chances of my pair being on top defeats the purpose of analyzing characters)

(Updated: 8/25 just to acknowledge a few other various things before the end of the Fontaine era)

Roy & Wriothesley: fight using their hands (in different ways but still; fire and ice though); masks their true goals behind a facade (whether staged like Roy or Wriothesley just letting people believe what they want about him); most people don't know their true personality/history; hold a position of power in what most people assume is ambition but really they just want to do good to those who need it.

Riza & Clorinde: observant/quiet personality; the world's best shot; the best poker face; straight faced humor; tough as nails; sass and teasing is a love language; recognized as the top of their respective fields and respected by many.

It's uncanny right??

1. Familiar With One Another

It's so clear they have history together. This is not their first mission, first interaction. They can read the lines between what is being said to understand something more, that is the definition of knowing and understanding how someone operates. It means some kind of history.

Between her greeting upon walking in the room (Clorinde: What's that look on your face? I thought I made good time on the way back.) and her knowing how he is about tea (Wriothesley: Want some tea? Clorinde: Not particularly. If you want to drink some that badly, just say so.) Those are not things you would know/say if you don't know a person. She knows he's giving her a weird look, or a look she wasn't expecting. He offers tea, and instead of saying no thank you, she's just no, but I know you do and you don't need me as an excuse 🤣

Even when he clarifies for her that he does want tea, he asks her again, maybe knowing she does actually like it but only if he's already making it - which I do all the time to Ren LOL (Wriothesley: Fine, I'd like to get some tea. Want me to get you a cup too, since I've already made it?) and that time she agrees (Clorinde: Eh, might as well then, I suppose.)

Idk like these are people who know each other. They know their quirks and their mannerisms. They talk to each other as equals (he doesn't question when she's telling the Duke wtf are you looking at me like that I'm right on time, and he's just like I know you're right on time you always are) I just think that's a big deal??

During the wrap-up of the main story quest, when talking to Charlotte when Clorinde is dodging interview attempts and Charlotte guesses how Clorinde knew Charlotte had an interview at Meropide (Clorinde: In truth, all Monsieur Neuvillette asked me was "When did the Fortress become so friendly towards the media?" I told him that it was best not to speak too soon — there's no guarantee that Wriothesley will make a personal appearance). It's likely that Clorinde was in the room when Neuvillette spoke the question aloud, but I also like him going up to her just to ask her like she'd know the answer to what Wriothesley was doing. I mean, she did still know the answer: that just because Charlotte had an interview, Wriothesley probably wouldn't show up. She knows he hates publicity as much as Clorinde does - I do have to imagine its because they've talked about it, they're friends.

In that same scene, Clorinde says to Navia that she seems interested in the Fortress, and Navia says duh, but that man gave me a headache (Navia: Of course! Ugh, that Wriothesley... I still remember going down to the Fortress to grill him for information on my father's case. Boy, did he take me for a ride... without telling me anything, of course). Clorinde then is like, yeah, but he invited you to tea, and it was good, right? (Clorinde: But he did invite you to tea, didn't he? Navia: Two large pots of it, in fact — it was good tea, though. Clorinde: I have to agree. The tea there is very good). My girl, how much time do you spend down there to know he'll habitually ask and that it's always good. Also, lol, the fact that she gave him such a hard time saying no, I don't want any tea, but if you want it, I'll have it, but then to Navia, Clorinde is much more straightforward about how good his tea is because she isn't teasing Navia.

Then of course their bets. (Wriothesley: I win this bet. You owe me a present. Clorinde: Very well, it was indeed just as you said.) This is a thing they do and apparently have done before. She literally talks about how much he gets into it, implying she's learned to go along with it because she knows he enjoys it.

My girl MY GIRL how do you know what kind of gifts he likes, or that he enjoys it all if you haven't done this a million times (Clorinde: Wriothesley gets really invested in that sort of thing. But he couldn't care less about what he wins in the end. Clorinde: You could give him mint plants that you plucked from the side of the road, and he wouldn't even mind). I also have to wonder if the reason he doesn't set a stipulation on what he wants, is because he likes to see what she comes up with, what reminds her of him and that's why he's so happy with anything - that's a little too me with the ship colored glasses on but still (the only other time we see him given a gift he's appreciative, but poor sweet Neuvillette has to explain it first so I can't judge Wriothesley's reaction in comparison).

A smaller thing is Navia always complaining about how hard it is to talk to Wriothesley while Clorinde just bubbles about calling the Duke by his first name and how he likes making bet and loves gifts 🤣 (Navia: If only he was that easygoing when it came to talking business...) I know it's because Wriothesley intentionally avoids Navia due to whatever promise he made with her father. Still, the image of Navia's best friend being super chill with the Duke of Meropide while Navia is exhausted by the thought of talking to him is so superb. Chefs kiss on that dynamic, Hoyo (also can we talk about how the trio of Wrio, Clorinde, and Navia doesn't get nearly enough love and I'm genuinely saddened over that).

I guess one last thing for this section because I don't know where else to fit it, with Wriothesley, to everyone else Clorinde is Miss Clorinde, including to her when they're in public but when Wriothesley is talking to Neuvillette when he's delivering all the gifts, she's just Clorinde (Wriothesley: I have to hand it to Clorinde. Just a simple gift delivery, and she has the great and mighty Iudex at her beck and call.) possibly because Neuvillette would be one of the few people to know they have a relationship outside of work? Though Clorinde is just like oh yeah Wriothesley is just like that in front of a whole slew of people LOL so maybe it's an on work time/off work time thing 🤣 I don't necessarily have a clear analysis but I 💯 noticed it still.

2. Familiar With The Fortress

Moreso for Clorinde since obviously Wriothesley is familiar with it. I think the most clear indication there is for Clorinde spending time down there is through Sigewinne. The official livestream announcement image being a lovely example.

Okay, I know it's because her and Sigewinne were the two new characters and like I said Sigewinne doesn't leave Meropide all too often. Still there were plenty ways to promote them: in the infirmary, in Neuvillette's office (like they did later for her demo/trailer), at the dining hall in Meropide, streets of Fontaine, even no place at all. A choice was made to have them sitting in Wriothesley's office.

I mean Clorinde has to spend a decent amount of time down there??Sigewinne has her drink meaning either Clorinde was comfortable enough to brew Wriothesley's tea or he brewed it for her/them. It's his teas set that sits in his office in game. Again these were choices that were made LOL Clorinde is reading so she's clearly not there for business, just hanging out in his office with Sigewinne.

Also, Clorinde's little smile 🥹 Another is the dolphin (whale? looks dolphin to me) sticker on her book, meaning that Sigewinne made a sticker of Clorinde (like she did with Wriothesley and Neuvillette). Most of all implying that Clorinde is close enough to Sigewinne to get that honor and the fact it's on Clorinde's book, that she spends enough time in Meropide that Sigewinne also likes to stick stickers on Clorinde's things like Sigewinne does to Wriothesley.

Another small thing, was Clorinde in Sigewinne's character trailer. Navia was about to guzzle that tea when Clorinde stopped her like, no, girl, wait. She's 100% had Sigewinne's drink creations before there would be no reason for Clorinde to otherwise stop Navia. And even Clorinde's little cough compare to Navia's big wide eyes of shock lol Clorinde has been through it.

One last thing with Sigewinne is her voiceline about Clorinde and that she's been around Clorinde enough to try to learn how to read her (Sigewinne: Miss Clorinde doesn't make a lot of facial expressions when she talks. It's pretty difficult to tell what mood she's in from what her face is doing...She used the lipstick I gave her? Really? Hee-hee, I'm so glad she likes it! I knew that color would go great on her!). But, Sigewinne also knows her enough to give her gifts - and vice versa (Clorinde: And some tea-flavored hard candies. They're for Sigewinne) - because they're also friends. That can literally only happen if Clorinde has spent time there longer than what we've seen/were told.

Another thing I found so cute about Clorinde's connection to Meropide, was in Clorinde's story quest, when they went to the Meropide set (Clorinde: I admire the work put into the set. Still, it's obvious the script writer has never paid a visit to the Fortress of Meropide). Yes, yes, we know, you're apparently so familiar with it you can tell when details are missing, okay, girl.

A little more of a stretch with some ship goggles on but I can't help but laugh at the image of Clorinde smiling at the prospect of getting to throw her players in Meropide and as GM getting to play Wriothesley's job (Furina: So this set... is going to be a part of the script? Clorinde: Unfortunately, that is something I can neither confirm nor deny. Paimon: Um, anyone think Clorinde's smile is starting to look kinda scary...?). Still sort of unrelated but also Paimon's line in that scene was adorable too - if only there were snacks in prison...oh, there are if the Duke likes you LOL (Paimon: If only there were desserts and tea in real prison... Oh, wait, guess that's kind of how the Fortress of Meropide works if you're lucky.)

3. Same Sense of Humor

Their humor too omg they have like the same brand of humor and it's fantastic and because it's so dry; poor Neuvillette is always just like and you what now? LOL (Clorinde: He already has tons of tea in his office. I'm thinking about a set of legal codices. Wriothesley: That wouldn't happen to be a dig at my lack of legal awareness, would it... Clorinde: I'm sure His Grace doesn't consider the Fortress to be outside the law.)

Which she brings up again in her voiceline (Clorinde: I highly suspect that he keeps quiet about some of the methods he uses, but there's no way we can know) teasing again that he operates outside the law. The other thing about this line (though I don't put it very high, it could be a translation thing) but that she switches from I highly suspect to no way we can know. Why she didn't just say no way I can know, is probably because she does know or she knows she could know if she asked LOL

One of my favorite examples is from his character stories because omg I feel like it's the definition of their humor and it makes me laugh so much ("Why does it feel like you have even more free time than me? Your title wasn’t bought, was it?"

"One moment, please."

So saying, Wriothesley rifled through three drawers before producing several thick documents with a flourish. "Now, let me see... 'excellent management'... 'leading tax contributor'... 'specially granted this title...' Well, what do you know? Good guess, that's pretty much what happened after all.") I just feel like she's not afraid to challenge him with jabs as jokes and he's perfectly fine to take it. But I also think that's saying something because who else knows that they can poke fun at him like that, she knows because she knows him.

4. Work Life Together

I just wish Hoyo would tell us more about it 😩 like is it just because he hires her to do stuff for him? How did that start? Why? Even in the character story above, it's said it was over a business transaction what does that meaaaan? There's no way he, woke up one way and went, you know what time to hire this one Champion Duelist (she's the best but she's still not the only one) to do some secret missions.

When asked, he said it's because she's an independent party (Wriothesley: As a Champion Duelist, Miss Clorinde can be considered to be an independent party. I needed to find an exceptionally capable person to help me get through the impending crisis) but I mean she works for the court idk how that makes her independent? He does say "crisis" so it's likely she knew about a lot of the things going on ahead of time but I don't think he would have ever just hired someone just because of their station. Mainly because in doing so, he trusted her to be in his inner circle of the plan with Sigewinne - who Clorinde also has a relationship with as I went through already - and Neuvillette, two people we know Wriothesley does have canonical history with.

I saw someone say that Clorinde was already staying down there at the time already working with Wriothesley on the mission, so it was easy for her to get Freminet, but I couldn't ever find what in canon pointed to that. She was staying after at least, she was eating dinner there but they weren't expecting the gate to blow that night. You'd assume she'd leave after she told him everything he needed to know. But no it's like middle of the night/early morning and she's right down there with him. So part of the crisis he referred to is letting her in on one of the biggest secrets of Meropide because she knew exactly what to do and was ready and willing to do it.

I also really love Navia's voice line about him because it says that Clorinde knows what the arraignment he had with Callas was otherwise she wouldn't have told Navia it was okay (Navia: Trying to discuss anything with that guy is an exhausting process. Clorinde says I needn't have any reservations about collaborating with him in the scope of our preexisting agreement, but I still shouldn't trust everything that comes out of his mouth.) I imagine Clorinde bullying it out of him to make sure if was a safe arraignment for Navia (and maybe upon learning what it was and how it came about could've been the early steps in how Clorinde learned to trust him too because it's mutual - she's not a mercenary, she takes jobs with him because she also trusts him and what he does). But I also imagine that bit about not trusting a word that comes from his mouth (since Wriothesley hasn't ever lied that I recall, he hides things very well and doesn't clarify to make things appear certain ways, but I don't recall him flat out being deceitful) is either 1. Clorinde teasing him to Navia without her even knowing but it gives Clorinde a little amusement 2. She knows that man is gonna run his mouth one day to tease her and she's laying the foundations now so Navia won't listen to him 🤣

Or Clorinde is helping him keep his mysterious and bad boy persona because she knows he's actually a big softie - all wins to me lol because I genuinely can't see her believing he's untrustworthy; she literally risked her life to stay with him while they waited for Neuvillette, that doesn't sound like a person you didn't trust. Because again as far as I know a Champion Duelist is still not a mercenary.

5. Battle Couple

Which leads me back into my original Roy and Riza comparison, the way they fight together (Wriothesley: Clorinde is the best Champion Duelist you can find. Her combat prowess is already the stuff of legend. I've never fought her myself, but that's because there's never been a need for it.) I saw someone point out how does he know this when he'd likely have to make a special trip just to see her fight. I imagine some is word of mouth considering the phrasing of stuff of legend. Regardless of how he knew initially, he knows now because they've fought together before. He's never fought her, like he said, but they're fought side by side.

They had to. I'm sorry, this is not the delulu brain worms, you cannot tell me they didn't.

They likely had some sort of plan otherwise idk how she would know to shoot the door controls, but she's watching him from a distance, sees his signal of a simple nod and proceeds (she nods back to him but I couldn't find a gif that included it). I say because they didn't know what was going to happen; the plan was probably if it looks bad, shoot the controls I don't care where I am. I don't think it was as specific as I'll just give you a nod it's fine. He could've shouted, made a bigger motion, lots of things really - he didn't because he was literally running for his life and he knew she was watching, she'd see him and know what to do that's why I bring it up. That's why I refuse to believe they've never fought/worked side by side before, you don't just read people like that; you don't just trust people like that, especially two people who it's in their job description to be sus and careful with who you trust. You read faces, eyes, subtle signals from people you know and trust.

It reminded me so much of Roy and Riza in this scene when she can't speak from her injury and he is about to lose his mind and all she needs to do is move her eyes and he gets it.

(I mean, Roy and Riza have literally a lifetime of history, experience, and love for one another, I don't think Wriothesley and Clorinde have known each other as long or have that rich a history, but all I'm saying is I keep seeing them in each other, okay? Okay).

6. Similarities in Story and Interests

I threw this one down at the bottom because I’m not sure if they’re aware of their own similarities. It’s more meta in the sense I see the similarities without having canon to tell me that they know how similar they are. The first being the most obvious in that they were both orphaned as babies, and then were raised with foster parents/guardians until Clorinde was 10 and Wriothesley was a teen (Clorinde at least getting the better deal in that her Master who took her in was unconventional but seemingly cared for Clorinde unlike Wriothesley who had the rug ripped out from under him to see the truth of his family). Clorinde then presumably was looked after by Callas and Wriothesley grew up in Meropide. Both don’t talk about their personal lives often, but in both they’re story quests, they talk about their past pretty openly. So its possible they know, but because Hoyo is too afraid to put them in the same room again, I can’t say.

They also both hate newspapers and paparazzi. Clorinde talks about why she likes Charlotte by alluding to what other journalists put Clorinde through (Clorinde: Unlike some, [Charlotte] doesn't ambush me with her Kamera on my way to work, or follow me to the coffee shop to report on what I'm drinking today... And most commendably of all, she is well aware that I do not do interviews and doesn't nag me about it continuously). Wriothesley we know also turns down interviews frequently (Charlotte: And that's exactly why I'd like you to come conduct interviews with me. You're the best incubators of news, if you haven't noticed — and also, with you around, I'm sure I'll get to see that Duke. Paimon: Are you sure? Hasn't he turned you down several times already?). I imagine its because both have been victims of the journalists turning on them for a front page story (I’m sure everything with Callas was sensationalized, same with Wriothesley when he was a teen and also probably just how criminals are depicted in journalism to begin with).

The last bit comes from the Fontaine Tour Group video since so far the only two playable characters who have displayed knowledge on Remuria. Wriothesley both in the Archon Quests and his Friendship stories (Wriothesley: Then maybe you haven't heard of the story of ancient Remuria. To give you a quick rundown, Fontaine used to be ruled by the Remurian Dynasty) and Clorinde in the Fontaine Tour Group video (Clorinde: …oh, they have a Conch Harp here? Navia: Something wrong? Clorinde: It’s nothing. Probably dates back to the days of Remuria, that’s all). In the video, Navia clearly had listened to Clorinde talk about it because she remembered the connection but she also couldn’t even remember the name after Clorinde just said it, so it’s clearly not common knowledge. I imagine Clorinde was taught about it with her Master due to the ties to the Marechaussee Hunters and Clorinde’s clear love of history. But I also can’t imagine that Clorinde and Wriothesley never discussed both having interests/knowledge in the same niche era of Fontaine’s history. We know that she knew about the splice gate, so I also imagine she knew about the Winglet and therefore they absolutely would’ve talked about Fontaine history and folklore together.

And So

One thing I've seen a lot in this fandom, when others are trying to discredit a ship they try to give proof of pairs that are "more canon" and I didn't do this to try and say they have more canon standing. They aren't seen together all that often, and sometimes we just have to pull the crumbs out of our own analysis and that's okay. I don't like the phrase "more canon" because its canon or its not lol Being in more scenes together doesn't make a pairing more canon unless they're in the scene confessing their love verbally or physically. It just means they have a relationship, whether that's friendship, familial or romantic. How you see a relationship is up to you and you aren't wrong (because there is no right answer - n o s h i p i s c a n o n).

When it comes to Clorinde and Wriothesley, I don't know if Hoyo will ever put them in the same room together again (though they gave me enough crumbs that I need to now clarify pictured/interacting in the same room lol). They're just gonna give us a Character like Wriothesley and just leave him down there to never interact with people 😭 Clorinde's story quest didn't even touch on her being a Champion Duelist. I still have so many questions.

I’m a little peeved with Hoyo to be honest which is a whole other conversation I’ll have on how we went from some of the best storytelling and some of the best characters into some of the blandest storytelling and complete wasted potential. Nothing will make me stop loving what I loved about Fontaine, but it’s incredibly frustrating also feeling like I was lied to my face only because Hoyo caved to fanservice (which is how it looks), completely erasing character stories and relationships they established in the first place.

ALAS, with the new region on the horizon, maybe we’ll finally see some peace as the fandom moves on to a new region. We’ll just have to speculate and answer the questions for ourselves <3

In any regard, I wrote up all this to (cope because I adore them and I run out of content to satisfy my intake on a daily basis) hopefully make someone else also feel better that no, no one was crazy for thinking these two had that good fucking chemistry, because it radiated off the goddamn screen. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise 💙 Also, oh my fucking god I thought that after being in with Genshin since version 1.3 I already had my hyperfixation period back in Liyue nope the fucking prison warden and trial by combat champion decided to ruin my life.

[leupagus]

Beard and Nate: friends to enemies to God I hope they get to be friends again

One thing I found interesting about this episode is Beard and Jane's axe-throwing date with the bespoke Nate Crotch Targets. Leaving aside Beard's 17 axes, which he cannot imagine having in a different country (and I do love that at some point between probably season 1 and 2, when he and Ted decided to stay in the UK for the forseeable future instead of going home after those first four months, Beard had his axes shipped and has added to the pile since then. Also that Ted is aware of Beard's axe problem), the vitriol of that is something that's really narratively significant, I think. Because it speaks to the fact that Beard has not remotely forgiven Nate for what he did. And I think that says a lot about Beard as a person, and as a friend.

Beard and Ted have been friends for a long time — long before Wichita (remember, they were only there for one year) — and whatever their past may be, they have a loyalty to each other that is really remarkable. Yes, Beard came to the UK along with Ted; but Ted must have insisted on them as a package deal, and Beard would have a pretty nice salary from Richmond too, not to mention comparable company housing to Ted's pad. They're very close and comfortable talking about complicated, messy emotional stuff with each other — part of the reason the Diamond Dogs formed was because Ted and Beard's rapport began to expand to encompass Higgins and Nate. He sees those two as similar kinds of men, willing to honestly express their feelings and mutually support each other.

And then Nate starts to change.

Beard and Ted first clock it in the very first episode of season 2, in Nate's attitude toward Will (which I think is more Nate repeating the mistakes that his father made with him than Nate actively reveling in abuse — I have a whole BOOK I want to write about Lloyd and Nate's conversation in this past episode, I absolutely cried, don't look at me). Neither of them say anything, which I think would be a mistake if this was real life but in the show is meant to reflect the idea that "sometimes you can let people make mistakes and improve on their own, but sometimes you have to step in early." But Beard, throughout the season, watches Nate a little more carefully, and then when Nate really goes over the line with Colin, he finally steps in. Nate makes his public apology to Colin and things are seemingly fine — remember, Nate's awful comment to Will happens out of Beard's sight.

But Beard obviously doesn't stop watching Nate, because he figures out pretty much instantly that Nate was Trent's source for the story about Ted's panic attacks. Not only that, but the first thing Nate does when Beard sees him is to ask where Roy is, and then lie to him when Beard makes a pretty blatant comment about the article. Then later, when they're all talking with Roy about the Jamie & Keeley situation and Nate confesses about the kiss, Beard makes the flat "I'd be happy to punch you in the face" comment. Because from his perspective, Nate's done something absolutely awful and won't even admit to it, even though he'll readily admit to trying to kiss Keeley. (I'm not making any claims as to which one is "worse," but the show clearly wants to portray Nate talking to Trent as the bigger problem.) Then you have the fight between Nate and Ted (which Ted 10000% told Beard about, I cannot imagine a world where he didn't), the ripped sign, and Nate leaving the club to coach for Rupert Mannion.

As far as Beard can see, Nate took what Beard and Ted had given him — not the assistant coachship, but the camaraderie and trust — and used it to hurt Ted in the most cowardly way possible.

And I don't think Beard is right.

We still don't know exactly why or how Nate told Trent about the panic attacks (what I wouldn't give for THAT flashback), but I think the folks who assume he did it to advance his own career or at the behest of Rupert or something are way off. I think Nate's anger at Ted is a whole other essay, and this past episode has really made it clear how much it's tangled up in his expectations for himself as well as for his father-figures, but I don't think that it's something Beard has been able to understand. All he sees is the fallout from Nate and Ted's broken friendship, and the grief that caused Ted this past year. He's only seen the pain on one side and not the other.

So we have Beard celebrating Nate's departure from West Ham, despite (and maybe because of) the fact that Ted's already forgiven Nate. We see Beard slowly trusting Trent — who after all did write the article but who wasn't Ted's friend or confidante at the time and owed him absolutely nothing — but still willing to erect boundaries when he wants to (even if he pulls them down within 30 seconds). And what I hope we get in the next two episodes is Beard understanding Nate more and accepting that his friend still needs him.

And that his friend is Nate.

[royboyfanpage]

Hello I really like your page. It's nice to see so much great Roy content and thoughts!

I was wondering your thoughts and opinions on Roy's relationship with Mia.

!! You're too sweet, tysm!

As for the ask:

Short answer? That's his little sister.

Long answer?

I'll be honest, I haven't seen all that many interactions between them in canon. I do have my own thoughts and feelings about them but, upon looking through some comics I've read, I haven't found many where they're actually talking. I have managed to find panels which show they *have* talked and have a good relationship in canon, but I've only seen them actually interact a few times and have definitely read more content with her and Connor, so if you have any reading recs I'd appreciate that :)

Because of this, my point is gonna be a lot more based on symbols and my own interpretation than actual sources, so some of my opinions may be disputed by canon content.

To start with, Roy's fiercely protective of Mia. Even from the beginning, he expressed his dislike of the thought of Mia becoming Speedy-

-because he knows first-hand just how detrimental that role can be to a child's mental health. Speedy, to him, meant a lot of bad things. I have a whole lotta thoughts on how the original sidekicks, particularly Roy and Dick, view becoming sidekicks, but I'll try and summarise. To Roy, Speedy meant losing any chance of a normal life. Keep in mind Roy was 13 when he became Speedy- he absolutely was not old enough to decide what he wanted to do with the rest of his life, and yet once you're *in* the hero business it's extremely difficult to leave.

And when Ollie first tells Roy that he's gonna make Mia Speedy, Roy's reaction is essentially that.

He's angry at Ollie for making Mia become Speedy, not because of "It's my name", it's not, Roy hasn't been Speedy in years at this point. He's angry because that is a seventeen year old who Ollie wants to throw in there, a seventeen year old who'll be making the choice to, in his eyes, throw away the rest of her life before she can even vote. And Roy's absolutely right about the world being different- Roy's teen years were spent in the gold and silver ages which were definitely a lot less dangerous than the 00s. And I think there's definitely an element in that fear of "look what being Speedy did to me" in Roy's fears. While it's likely Roy was an adult by the time Snowbirds happened, considering the amount of drugs he had experience with and the different connections he'd built it's safe to say that Roy was already an addict by the time he was Mia's age. But what I don't think Roy understands is that Speedy isn't that for her. She's already gone through the shit Roy's scared of her going through and more, having been a child prostitute and meth user by the time she was fifteen. To Mia, Roy isn't a cautionary tale but rather an inspiration- someone who'd gone through a similar situation to her and come out the other end.

After this, their relationship definitely progressed. Roy comes to trust Mia and her identity as Speedy, as well as letting her have things (that he kinda shouldn't have had in the first place, but all vigilantes are criminals it came free with the independent delivery of justice) that could help her as Speedy-

-and trusting her with Lian who he's always been fiercly protective over

And their relationship in the few times I have seen them together is incredibly sweet, with Mia reassuring Roy that he's a good dad and that it's not his fault that life gets in the way of his time with Lian.

So yeah. I really hope that they get to interact in the ongoing series because the Speedys should absolutely talk more. I think that Roy naturally has a great instinct with younger heroes, and he's absolutely someone Mia respects and looks up to.

Anyway I think Roy should take Mia and Connor to a theme park for sibling bonding time <3

[the-west-meadow]

So excited you’re back, I love your succession fics! Can I request Kendall and “do you think I’m a good person?” He needs so much reassurance on this 💕

here you gooo! thank you for the kind words and fun prompt. hope you enjoy xo

Kendall Roy x Reader

prompt: do you think I'm a good person?

When the cameras were on, he was mesmerizing. In the hushed silence, all eyes were on Kendall. The confidence he exuded in that moment was enough to captivate the world. Whether it was true or not, whether he had anything to back up his claims, none of that mattered. It was the sheer amount of self-assurance that it took for Kendall to tear down his father in front of the world that was so alluring. 

But when the cameras were off, when he was sitting beside you in the company car after the press conference, it was a different story.

He couldn’t stay still. Buzzing with adrenaline, scrolling through his phone, fidgeting with his sunglasses, taking calls. Kendall was in his element. Finally, he had found an ounce of his own power. 

"The tweets are good, guys. This is really happening."

He suddenly went silent, causing you to look over at him. He was staring at his phone.

"It's Dad," he said, breaking the silence. “This is a trap, right? Jess?”

Jess, who was sitting up front with the driver, turned around in her seat. He showed her the phone, waited for her advise. She only shrugged, looking slightly panic-stricken.

Finally, taking the plunge, he answered. He didn’t say a word, just listened. You could hear the muffled voice on the other end, Logan’s familiar tones. A darkness crept into Kendall’s eyes. That hollow look you knew all too well. The energy drained out of his face. He said “uh-huh” in a deadpan voice, then hung up. 

Silence. The car hummed through the congested city streets. Jess peered at him, anticipating whatever was to come. 

He laughed. A laugh derived of all joy. 

“Wow. Just wow.”

He shook his head and slid his phone into his pocket. Then he stared out the window and didn’t speak for a full minute, the longest he had been silent since the press conference ended.

“Kendall,” you said softly. 

“Yeah.”

“You okay?”

Again, a long silence. 

“I’m great. This is the greatest moment of my life.”

But when he turned to look at you, to show you his winning smile, tears spilled out without warning. 

“Hey, hey,” you said, reaching for him immediately. “Come here.”

It was typical of Logan to destroy his children with just a few words. You had seen it happen over and over. You didn’t know how they could withstand it. Kendall had been so ground down by it that you were amazed there was anything left of him. 

“He said I'm not a good person,” he choked. 

Jess craned around again, silently listening. Kendall held onto your hand for dear life. 

“It’s funny. It’s really fucking funny for him to say that. Because he’s one of the worst people in the world.”

He laughed through his tears, torn between mania and total despair. 

“I know,” you said, gripping his hand. “I know.”

“I don’t know, though. Maybe it’s true.”

“What’s true?”

“I’m a bad person. I’m as bad as him.”

He shook his head, unable to cope with the thoughts that had just flooded into him. 

“I hurt people," he said. "I disappoint people. That’s all I do. What do people think when they look at me? I don’t think they see a good person. They see a failure who can’t live up to his father’s image.”

“Not everyone thinks that. And if they do, fuck them. They don’t matter.”

“I’ve tried,” he went on, tears still streaming. “I’ve tried so fucking hard. I thought I was doing what was right. But I don’t think anything I do matters. This fucking press conference. None of it.”

“You might have just changed the world, Kendall. Seriously.”

“I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing. Am I just being selfish and attention-seeking? I feel like I’m constantly sabotaging myself and I don’t know how to break out of this cycle of self-destruction.”

Then he looked up at you, imploring, scared and confused, like a deeply wounded child. 

“Do you think I’m a good person?”

Jess, silent until now, nearly leapt into the back seat. 

“I do. I think you’re amazing. You’re the best boss I’ve ever had, and you’re my hero. I’ve never told you that. I should probably say it more.”

Kendall was speechless. Jess shrank back into her seat.

“Sorry. I’m sorry,” she said in a small voice. 

“No, no,” he said with a weak laugh. “Thank you, Jess. That means a lot.”

You touched Kendall’s face lightly. He turned to you again, tears streaking his face. You kissed his cheek, the moisture from his tears lingering on your lips. Kendall went absolutely still, waiting and listening, totally rapt.

“You’re a good person, Kendall,” you said. “Don’t pay attention to what others think.”

“I care what you think,” he whispered. “I care what my kids think. My siblings…”

My dad, you finished for him silently. 

You wrapped your arms around him gently, allowing him to fall into your shoulder. He held you tight, with a new desperation. The tears had subsided for now. There was a newfound strength brimming from him.

“Fuck the world,” he murmured into your shoulder. “I’m doing this for you.”

You ran your hands over his back. Jess cast him another worried glance. You reassured her with a slight nod. He would come out of this. He always did. 

“I know, Kendall. I know. You’re doing great.”

[thestobingirlie]

you understand my fave characters like no other before, are there any fic recs that you would want to bestow upon this humble ask??

this ask is about a month old lol, but here i am!!

in no particular order:

to have a friend

"Maybe life will be different soon. Now that I've been fully myself for a year, I know there's no going back. As it turns out, being a loner suits me beautifully. But there are times when I crash hard into the hope of finding my people. Friends who would stick with me through anything. A girl I can have a less hopeless crush on. There are adventures waiting for me. I know it." -Rebel Robin

Robin finds her people.

this fic is a must read!!!!! just beautiful. my favourite robin fic ever

the wine of life by littlearrows

After the Upside Down, Steve, Nancy, Robin and Vickie take the '90s to rest and grow up. Along the way, there's weddings, kids, a treehouse and one car breakdown.

(aka my stancy & rockie slice-of-life future fic)

theeee stobickancy future fic!!! it’s canon to me, no matter how the show ends lmao

honestly, all of littlearrows works are a must read, katie is a beautiful genius!!

the road goes ever on by MaryPSue

The Battle of Starcourt has been won, but its aftershocks are still rippling. Separated from the rest of the Party, Will struggles with feelings of abandonment, while El is trying to find her place with the Byers and come to terms with the loss of her powers - and the closest thing she's ever had to a father. Back in Hawkins, life is slowly returning to normal, or at least as normal as life ever is. The Party are starting to adjust to having two of their members at a distance, though everyone's still missing El and Will, Mike most of all.

But life in Hawkins never stays normal for long. Someone - or something - is following Steve and Robin, and they may not be the only ones under surveillance. A spectre from El's past makes an unexpected - and unwanted - reappearance. And an old enemy may turn out to be much more than meets the eye.

And sometimes, the bad guys are smart, too.

Separated by miles and misunderstandings, with communications failing and their enemies somehow always one step ahead, Hawkins' strange little fellowship find themselves caught between holding on and moving forward. If they want to survive to see another November, they'll have to face the past - and each other.

very fun body horror fic!!!! i just love fics that interact with the upside down outside of strict canon.

the very best people by scioscribe

“Why are you messing up my undercover operation, Steve?” Dustin said. “Do you want another tear to open up in the space-time continuum and suck us all into the Upside Down? Do you want the entire world to turn into squishy, mind-flayed zombies because you and Robin couldn’t get your shit together?”

(Or, the one where Steve and Robin go undercover in an evil suburb.)

stobin pretending to be a newly-wed married couple to go undercover. what more could i want from a fic?

minor falls, major lifts. by millcrs

“Steve.” Shiv lowers her voice an octave. “Steve. Calm down. Just let me see, okay?”

“I don’t want you to see.” He smacks her hands away, feels the cut of a modest rock nip at his knuckles. Wambsgans outdid himself.

“Where’d he get that?” Steve laughs, points, and Shiv’s eyes flicker to her finger like she forgot all about it. “Fuckin’ Macy’s?

—

“Look,” Connor says, palms up and placating. “We can point fingers at each other, or we can be honest with ourselves and blame the commies.”

st/succession crossover; steve as one of the roy siblings. i’m soooo obsessed with the entire series!!

in a strange land by MrsEvadneCake

Doom comes to Hawkins, Indiana. Population est. 30,000.

It’s cold, that’s all, and the breeze is kicking up. That’s why Steve feels the chill go up his spine like someone dropped an ice-cube down his back.

“Why wouldn’t I be real, El?”

“The Aboleth got you.”

i’ve absolutely rec’d this before, but i don’t even care because it’s literally one of the best st fics ever, and i need everyone in the fandom to read it.

nothing really sticks by rosie447

Steve cuts his hair with safety scissors in the bathroom of Family Video. Maybe he's less okay than he's been letting on.

steve trauma fic, everybody cheer!!!!!

[starlit1daydream]

CLASSPECTING YELLOW GUY: DHMIS and the aspect of Light

Well, Yellow won the poll I put out a few days ago, and I have a very clear idea of what I see in him (fitting, given his title) so I'll detail my thoughts down below. This is all my personal analysis, you're free to come to any different conclusion, Classpecting is subjective even if some answers are clearer than others.

Yellow Guy. David, Doi, Manny, whatever debatably official/completely unofficial name you want to refer to him by, he's arguably the most important character to Don't Hug Me I'm Scared. Some may argue that Red Guy takes on the role of protagonist in the sense that he moves forward the narrative, but Yellow is the one it centres around. The whole show is, from an in-universe perspective, built around him.

This is going to go over mostly his role in the TV series, but include some aspects from the web series.

I think Yellow is a Page of Light.

He begins as a simpleton, struggling to grasp the most basic knowledge and very much filling the role of the team idiot. Despite this, however, he's always filled with this inherent curiosity and desire to learn things. He's the integral student, seeking to understand Light even though he so fundamentally lacks it.

This is, of course, a dead ringer for a Page of Light. Yellow is incredibly deficient with his Aspect, but nonetheless it's still an integral part of his life and how he leads it - like Tavros with Breath, Jake with Hope and Horuss with Void.

Naturally, the Page holds great potential to understand their Aspect and share it out and lead through it once they fully comprehend how to use it. Yellow's moment of understanding, that 'lightbulb' moment if you will is when his batteries are restored.

Suddenly, he's unlocked that potential with Light. It's... equivalent to God Tiering, let's say. But he's not a master. The Page has a far longer road to walk than that. He's merely beginning to comprehend Light, his relationship with it and his search for it. Not only that, he's willing to share it; he ends up schooling one of the teachers, after all!

Naturally, the world has it out for him. The Page, to put it bluntly, is the narrative joke. Hussie did not like any of the characters he made Pages. Tavros is portrayed as a softie, a crybaby and the punchline of some very ableist jokes by the fandom, Jake is called 'jape' or 'joke' more than his actual name by Vriska, and Horuss is a thinly veiled and very tasteless parody of therians and systems.

Naturally, Yellow follows this pattern of being fucked around by the narrative, just in a way that makes more sense in-universe beyond 'the author's being a dick'. Yellow is the narrative plaything. Knowledge is constantly distorted or withheld from him, he's surrounded by Void given to him by other people (Roy is most definitely a player of Void) and thus those brief sparks of Light, those points of data and precise moments that makes up the aspect, they're very few and far between.

The house's upper floors represent his quest for knowledge and relevance. He steps closer and closer to the truth, every higher floor is another tier of knowledge reached. He's growing to understand that Aspect, confronted with false understandings of Light and pushing them away. Like any Light-bound, he wants the truth, he wants that linear point of data that gives him clarity.

But, as the Page, the narrative plaything, Lesley and Roy's toy to torture and play with as they see fit... he doesn't get it. He has the answers held in front of his face, and then all of that development is reversed. Amusingly, this seems to mirror certain arcs at the end of Homestuck, but I digress.

Yellow fails his quest, but not of his own volition, and we'll see if the TV series drops a new season (9 days away, people!) whether or not we'll see him ever fully realise the truth.

Next up, Red Guy as a Breath-bound and Duck as a Doom-bound.

[murdererofthumbs]

I find it fascinating that some people think that Roman’s mountain top outburst with Matsson was a fucking business strategy, that it was actually a negotiation tactic. I’m sorry, but did we watch the same scene? Not only did Matsson fuck them over by giving an offer the board absolutely won’t refuse (which shits right on the genius master plan of Kendall taking over Waystar - yet again, for what?), he also pretty clearly blew his lid off. Is revealing all the ways they planned to fuck the deal supposed to be this amazing tactic? Absolutely not. He lost it, it was a culmination of all the grief, all the anxiety, and all the anger at Matsson for dragging them up there days after their father died, and he just fucking erupted. Comparing him to Logan in that moment only matches if you think about Logan fucking losing it and making a stupid decision because he lost his tempter (like his little tantrum after PGN went to shit). I feel like in their world, you’re either an emotional wall or you lose, that’s it. No cards on the table, because you can’t manipulate someone if not only they can clearly see through you, but you also just come out with unhinged monologue, revealing everything (which I’m happy that Roman did it, he needed that catharsis, but also - not a good business move overall). Lucas was not intimidated by Roman, he was amused, he threw more money at them to solidify the deal, because he saw an emotional value ATM holds for them. That’s what the picture from Shiv was about, that was his one big fuck you. In the end of the day, it is a big dick competition.

I also saw some interesting (if only questionable) opinions on Shiv - Matsson stuff. Like yeah, I think girlie was definitely winning this episode, especially when you had her brothers as a comparison, who just stood there with dicks in their hands, looking absolutely clueless half of the time. At this point what is going on between Shiv and Matsson could be considered a mutual symbiosis; they are kind of like two parasites feeding of each other, playing each other off but to the benefit of both of them. But this cannot be long-term, we all know how things go - the closer you get to the sun, the more painful the fall is going to be. Matsson getting Shiv on his side (with quite a lot of enthusiasm on Shiv’s side, she did try to play her own angle all along), is a very easy way of getting himself an insider to the company. It’s also very easy way to take care of Kendall and Roman problem. Shiv has a motivation to stab her brothers in the back, she can sense that she is not being included, and she can very clearly see that her brothers are actually incompetent and don’t have a plan. Which means that Matsson going with “you remind me of your dad” was an extremely good move on his side. It solidified it for Shiv, it literally lifted her of the ground. Because everyone with a pair of working eyes can see that Roy siblings cling to Logan like he’s a raft, and all they want to do is either make daddy proud or be like daddy. For Shiv it’s a compliment of a highest standard to be compared to Logan, because Logan was the big boss, because in the end of the day - Logan always won. They are still playing the same old game, and I’m worrying that it’s about to bring the same results it always brought, just from a different person.

Then again, obviously this show is very highly open to interpretations and I might possibly be giving a bit too much credit to Matsson (in the end of the day he might turn up to be a complete idiot, business-wise, although I doubt it), but that was my overall read on the last episode.

[altschmerzes]

🌹💐🌺🌸🌸🌹🌻🌸🌸🌸🌹🌹🌹🌻🌻🌹 a bouquet for something Roy and Jamie from wiggle up on dry land? 🙏

OKAY SO. THIS IS. LONG. BUT SOMETHING TELLS ME YOU PROBABLY WON'T MIND. so here, take this, from a LONG ways ahead, in the like, mid-season 2 area of the timeline in wriggle up on dry land-

It’s one of the stranger moments of Roy’s life, this one. He’d acted without thinking, following an instinct he didn’t know he had and wasn’t prepared to reckon with being in him in the first place and doing something he suddenly knew he needed to do without considering the implications or consequences. It’s something that he’s done time and again when it came to Jamie specifically, and it’s only gotten more unsettling the more it happens. And now here Roy is, standing in Rebecca’s office, the unwieldy burden of a deeply asleep sixteen year old in his arms and absolutely no idea how he’s going to get down to his car.

There are stairs between Rebecca’s office and the car park, for one. For another, Roy’s got a permanent injury to one of his legs and today has not been a particularly good day on that front. And, while Jamie’s lighter than Roy would honestly have hoped he would be, and he hadn’t had trouble picking him up off the couch, it’s going to be different as soon as he tries to walk farther than the distance across the office floor. It’s a dilemma. Roy is stuck in a situation with a sick boy he needs to get home so he can be properly looked after and the thought of waking him up to walk to the car is a prospect that makes Roy himself feel ill just contemplating it. The answer should be obvious. Jan Maas is right there in the doorway, having been sent after him by Ted for exactly this reason, and the thing about Jan Maas is that he is about eight feet tall and and built like he plays American fucking football. Jamie is willowy and short for his age. Stairs or no stairs, Jan would not have a problem carrying him down to Roy’s car - honestly, could probably carry him all the way to Roy’s house without breaking a sweat. Roy’s knee hurts and Jan is enormous and Jamie isn’t that heavy. It’s a no-brainer. A non-issue. Even so, Roy doesn’t move. He stands there in the middle of Rebecca’s office, frozen into complete stillness despite the increasing ache in his knee, the awareness that if he tries to take another step carrying an extra person with him it will not withstand the strain, and a complete unwillingness to pass his burden over. It’s a no-brainer, a non-issue, but Roy can feel Jamie’s forehead against his neck and it’s damp and hot. The boy has a fever and he’s sick, limp and asleep in Roy’s arms and there’s this panicky little corner of Roy’s brain that is convinced that the only place in the world that Jamie is safe, even close to safe, is while Roy is holding him. He’s aware this is stupid and ridiculous for all kinds of reasons, but knowing that doesn’t make that panicky little shriek any quieter or make his body any more willing to move. There’s something calculating in Jan’s eyes - they’re a cold and piercing grey-blue that never seem to miss much, even when Roy wishes they would. Roy shifts Jamie a bit, holding him a bit higher, a bit tighter, and waits for the inevitable. Jan knows Roy is reluctant to pass the boy over, and that he has no real reason to be so, and Jan is Jan, which means that any moment he’s going to start rattling off all the reasons why giving Jamie to him is the obvious solution and Roy is doing nothing but wasting everyone’s time. When Jan does speak, Roy blinks at him, uncomprehending. He can’t process what’s just been said, and he shakes his head a little like that will clear his ears or his head or something. The movement draws a faint whine from the still-unconscious kid and Roy hushes him with a duck of his cheek against the top of Jamie’s head. “I said, I will be careful,” Jan repeats, obviously aware that Roy hadn’t understood what he said. He sounds just as straightforward and frank as he always does, he doesn’t speak delicately or talk around the ridiculous problem he’s addressing, but he doesn’t mock either. He doesn’t make fun. All he says, looking right at Roy with a steady, clear calm, is, “I promise. I will be gentle and careful with him. You have my word.”

[littlebeelife]

Daily J2 Breakdown

Day 6

This interview has my whole heart.

"We’re best friends, period. He’s my best friend for life. I don’t think it’s that remarkable, but it’s definitely special."

***

Supernatural siblings

WE ARE BROTHERS FOR LIFE, SUPERNATURAL HUNKS JARED PADALECKI AND JENSEN ACKLES TELL T2 Priyanka Roy What Would You Tell Jared And Jensen If You Met Them? Tell T2@abp.in   Published 19.10.13, 12:00 AM

Through nine seasons, the Winchester brothers — Dean and Sam — have battled demons, busted metaphysical myths and redefined chills and thrills on the small screen. In an email chat, Jared Padalecki (who plays Sam) and Jensen Ackles (who plays Dean) tell t2 about the show (Season 9 currently airs Monday to Thursday at 8pm on AXN) that’s made them a household name across the world.

When you were first approached to play brothers who bust ghosts and hunt down devils, did you ever think that Supernatural would become the show it is today?

Jared Padalecki: We’re one of the longest running shows on television! When I turned 31 (on July 19 this year), I remember thinking, ‘Wow… I’m 31 and this is my ninth season. This is a third of my life!’ It’s pretty amazing. I feel that what we’re doing this season could go on for however long the writers, and the fans, want to keep it going. We’ve opened so many doors and we didn’t close any... we didn’t kill this or stop that, we just left it so that we can do anything. What the writers have chosen to do is so awesome. I want to strangle them because I’m really excited about it — but I’m not allowed to tell you anything more at this stage. My hands are tied.

How does Season 9 carry the drama forward?

Jared: Season Nine is really cool! I’m more excited about shooting this season than any other season of Supernatural. I was really excited when I read the first five scripts and I think they are the best five episodes I’ve ever read, including Season One. As an actor, and as a fan of the show, I’m really excited about it. I am certain that the fans are going to think the storyline is badass this season. And I’m really hoping that they like my choices as an actor when they see what happens.

At the end of last year, Sam was not getting better. Well, this storyline will explain how Sam gets better. Dean says, ‘Hey buddy, stop the trials and you’re not going to die.’ And so Sam does stop the trials, but clearly he does not get better. We know that at some point between then and the second episode of Season Nine, he gets better and you’ll find out why immediately.

How much of Sam is Jared and how much of Dean is Jensen?

Jared: I grew up with Sam — I started the show when I was 22. I even met my wife (Genevieve Cortese who played Ruby) on this show. In fact, now I try to find similarities between the character and my own personality.

Jensen Ackles: The longer we become these characters, go through so much on and off, we get a greater clarity about ourselves. Now I know the clear differences between Dean and me. The only exception being that we look exactly alike!

What’s been the most challenging bit about playing Sam and Dean?

Jensen: I’d say... just I think, the emotional toll that he has sometimes where he doesn’t think that he is of value, that he isn’t equal to the people that he surrounds himself with. He’ll put other people first before himself. He’s very quick to sacrifice himself, and that’s difficult. I think it’s also a noble trade. 

Jared: And I feel Sam is very pensive and he’s very fastidious when he’s trying to get a task done. And Jared’s like that. I read instruction booklets, I really do... when I get something, I can’t buy something and just go like, ‘Oh, I’ll figure it out.’ I read and re-read it and I try and really figure everything out. And I like that... Sam kind of takes that approach. And I guess before I started acting, I was going to be an engineer, and maybe that’s what it comes from, just that kind of break everything down to put it all back together, reverse engineering or whatever. However, sometimes I feel like I wish Sam would make a hard decision.

Do you believe in the supernatural?

Jensen: I wouldn’t call myself superstitious, but I do suspect there’s more between heaven and earth... even hell. I’m open for spiritual experiences, although I haven’t needed any salt yet to ward off evil spirits from my home!

Jared: I firmly believe that things happen for a reason. That may sound melodramatic, but I don’t believe coincidence exists. And I also believe we’re not the only living creatures in this universe.

Which have been your favourite moments on the show so far?

Jensen: My favourite moment is when the brothers made a commitment to each other in the church. This is a commitment that they’re going to check in with each other... that they are going to remain partners and stay on the same track and not be like, ‘You go do this while I go and do that, and we’ll all try to solve the world our own way.’

Is there anything you would want to change about Dean and Sam?

Jared: There’s a term we use, to “man up” — “man up and get the job done”. Sam ends up making a decision, but I don’t think he takes a stand. There’s a small difference, and I wish he’d take a stand sometimes.

You guys have been sharing screen space through nine seasons. What kind of a dynamic do you share off screen?

Jensen: That’s almost impossible to explain. Nine months a year we’re stuck with each other literally 24 hours a day, seven days a week because we’re working on the show. Even doing stuff for ourselves in between isn’t possible. We’re constantly together. And even when we’re not actually working together during the nine months, or the other three months out of the year for that matter, we always find ourselves choosing to hang out and be together. But what I’m saying is, if you compare our relationship with Dean and Sam’s relationship on the show, there is a huge difference. Jared never drives me up the wall.We can talk to each other about anything.

Whenever we’ve fought, it’s been for each other! Like, I’ll do or say something and he will too and the other one might not like it, but in the end we’re doing it to help or protect them and it’s never against him. I think we do have that loyalty and I can honestly say you know, I’d trust my life with this guy and I guess in relevance to Dean for Sam, I would jump in front of a bullet for him any day and never think twice.

Jared: And the best part about Jensen and my relationship is it’s gonna be that way when we’re on the show and not. I mean, unfortunately for him, he’s stuck with me for life now and that’s important. But look, brothers and sisters, for that matter, sometimes fight. Or worse... they can’t get along at all. Between Jensen and me there have never been any issues and I think that’s rather special.

Jensen: We’re best friends, period. He’s my best friend for life. I don’t think it’s that remarkable, but it’s definitely special.

Are you aware that you have a huge fan following in India?

Jared: I was so surprised when I was informed that we have a huge fan following in India. Until recently, I had no idea that the show was even airing in India! It feels so good to know we have fans across the continent.

Jensen: I had no idea either. Jared and I both found out about it together! We are dying to come to India... it would be amazing.

What’s the craziest thing a fan has done for you?

Jared: The people will come up and be like, ‘Oh, my gosh! I saw an episode where this happened and it made me think of this time when I saw this.’ And you’re like: ‘What did you do? Get the salt?’ So the fans are pretty funny. The fans of the show are certainly. They’re not casual fans. People, if they know the show, they know the show, which is nice. It’s wonderful to have such a dedicated audience and a loyal following. It’s become part of the show and we’ve made episodes about our fans. So that’s fun, and they certainly share their stories with us.

Source: telegraphindia.com - October 19th 2013, written by Priyanka Roy

[lunar-years]

roy and jamie and keeley are so hot together and i wonder what you think the public perception of them is like? jamie and keeley were into pda (at the gala, in the locker room, jamie’s pics of keeley lmao) but keeley implied that jamie would hate the tabloids invading their privacy. do we know how long jamiekeeley were even together for?? and then there’s roy who’s super protective about keeley, hates talking to the media, and threatens the paparazzi taking pics of them in s1. idk where i’m going with this but I’m just thinking about that throwaway line in s3, where jack assumes keeley’s talking about jamie when she refers to her “famous footballer ex”. in my head i think keeley likes the grand gestures in the public eye with jamie, but she also loves the private sacred moments no one else gets to see. it’s just really interesting to imagine what they’d be like when they all get together!

Ugh they really ARE so hot together aren’t they!!

Anyway this is such a fun thing to discuss. First off, I don’t think we know for sure how long Jamie and Keeley were together :( But the entire locker room seems pretty familiar with her in episode one, and as a couple, the two of them seem fairly established to me. Not as in like, a serious way necessarily, but in a way where it’s clear they’ve got a lot of trust between them and do know one another. Also, it’s been both long enough for Jamie to have fallen in love with her and for Keeley to have had the deep impact on him that sets into motion all the growth we see in him from that point on. So in my mind, I think they were together for like, a year and a bit. Pretty much as long as Keeley and Roy were together, honestly.

I think the two of them definitely enjoy being public-facing enough to like, have online fan clubs and a big Twitter Stan presence LOL and also they’d be totally pumped to make it onto like, top power couples and best dressed lists. And they both really care about ~their brand~, reputation and image in a way Roy just doesn’t. So I do think they like attending events together and showing out on red carpets and posting pics together on their socials!!

I LOVED that line in season one about Jamie hating the tabloids getting in their business. I think it shows that he respects Keeley, that in his own way, that relationship was special and sacred to him even when it was happening, and that he does have a line between his public and personal life. And then I think we see throughout the series that Jamie is (maybe surprisingly?) actually a fairly private person. Yeah he’s got this whole very loud online presence, but that’s very different than like, him.

So yeah, I think he and Keeley enjoy being public, but only when they can curate what they’re putting out there and have it be under their control. And Jamie would’ve fully supported and endorsed Roy’s smashing that pap’s camera on his first date with Keeley, lol. All three of them I think cherish the moments the world isn’t privy to the most :)

My headcanon is that they don’t go public as a throuple until after Jamie retires, and I think they wouldn’t couple off (as in, publicize that just roykeeley or jamiekeeley are together) when it means leaving someone out, even if that person is Roy who hates the publicity anyway. It would just rub them all the wrong and they all agree they don’t need to kiss one another in public that bad. So I think they keep the romantic/relationship side of things pretty private amongst their families and close friends, BUT I also think they wouldn’t hide being close to one another. The fans definitely know how close they all are, and they don’t try to totally avoid being seen publicly hanging out, in pairs and all three. Also the online rpf shipping community is definitely rampant lmao.

And I think there’s also an element of like, they want to be available to publicly support one another. Being totally private isn’t worth it if they can’t show up for one another when it matters. Obviously, Keeley wants to be there for all their games, and Jamie and Roy want to be at her work functions and events that matter to her just as much, and at a certain point, if people are gonna talk they’re gonna talk! I think Jamie kind of helps Roy come around to this way of thinking as well. Enough to where they can be a little more open with caring about one another, and hug on the pitch maybe a bit longer than they hug anyone else, and even joke about one another in interviews (okay, that one’s mostly Jamie), and not give a shit. So everyone is aware on some level they’ve got a deep bond, but they just don’t know the exact nature of that bond and rjk aren’t forthcoming lol.

[imperiuswrecked]

How would you describe Invaders era Namor's character? Please and thank you.

In the Invaders Era I think the best way to sum up Namor's character is inexperienced.

Yes, he's headstrong, brash, arrogant, angry, and confident but under all that lies his inexperience with many things. How to navigate his father's world which seems very alien to him, how to fight a prolonged war, how to deal with friendships, questioning where his true loyalty lies, how to deal with trauma that came from his time in WWll, the tortures he endured, the human people he can't protect and loses, and the failure to protect his own people, the Atlanteans. The Marvel's Project #1

He doesn't win every time, and he isn't able to save everyone all of the time. Invaders (2019) #1

WWll left Namor with permanent PTSD even decades later that he never takes the time to process or heal from. Marvel's Snapshot: Sub-Mariner

Fish out of Water is the best trope to describe Namor in any era due to him being a constant outsider but it's especially pronounced during his time with the Invaders because he's never been to war before nor has he spent a lot of time around all different kinds of human people. Namor is the only non American on the original team (I feel Jim thinks of himself as an American even if he isn't a "born" citizen) and often makes it a point that Steve and the rest of the team's patriotism isn't his patriotism. He's very guarded in letting down his emotional walls, "I prefer to keep it (his name) to myself". The Invaders (1975) #1

He's never had true close friends outside of Lady Dorma, Betty Dean, or Namora who are all women, so he hasn't had close male friends. The animosity between Namor and the rest is there early on in the formation of the team. Giant Size Invaders #1

"I don't have much use for any humans." The Invaders (1975) #1

Namor is also stuck at a crossroads, yes the Nazis are terrible but the humans who hurt his ocean home are also terrible. They caused great pain and suffering to his people and his oceans. Even though the Nazis do attack the Atlanteans and the oceans, that doesn't erase the fact that normal surface humans also hurt his people. He knows that stopping the Nazis is important but sometimes he's torn on whether he should leave the humans to their war or what the outcome would be when the war is over.

Sub-Mariner Comics 70th Anniversary Special

"My Emperor. Let them drive themselves to extinction and we're all the better for it."

"After all, some day this insane war of yours will end and then I don't know who my people's enemy will be." Invaders (1975) #1

Although I have issues with the rest of the plot in Invaders (2019) this one page of characterization and introspection is so interesting to me because Namor is basically a demi-god, he is literally descended from Neptune and has god-blood in his veins, he's stronger that any human or atlantean in this era, but he's never faced the fact that his supernatural strength isn't enough. He's never faced being charged to protect people who are so much weaker than him, both humans and Atlanteans. All the destruction that happened to the Atlanteans happened before his birth, so he grew up hearing wild tales about how bad humans were, he was expected to hate them all, not protect any of them. He's conflicted feelings of being loyal to his mother's and grandfather's teachings of despising all the humans and viewing them as the enemy is being challenged during this era and he doesn't know how to process the gray area he finds himself in.

Invaders (2019) #1

Namor's characterization on page is mercurial, changing from a (murder) child like enthusiastic joy at defeating his enemies to serious and brooding royal prince. The switch between his casual and serious demeanor, from using slang talk to speaking like he's a Shakespearean play has to do with the writer, Roy Thomas, wanting to keep both the Golden Age and Silver Age characterizations of Namor. There is a very noticeable way in which Namor was written in both eras and the brooding prince of today's comics was nothing like that in the Golden Age Comics. Roy Thomas is known for his great attention to detail and trying to keep true to the comics that came before. He even tried to write an explanation as to why Namor's speech/mannerisms often changed in this era, citing a "dual heritage" aka because he was human/atlantean. The Invaders (1975) #3

Personally I just believe that Namor used to be a much more optimistic character who had extreme anger and identity issues but the war tore him down mentally and emotionally so much that he became even more guarded and serious than before.

"I've killed 3,000 Axis soldiers for you, Lung Man. I am tired of your Age of Massacre." Marvel Comics Presents (2019) #1

Despite Namor trying to keep a wall up between himself and the rest of the Invaders, he does allow space in his heart for his team, and keeps to the bonds of friendships they formed for the rest of his life, he teaches Bucky how to fly, he cares for Toro, he's close friends with Jim, Steve and the others. He also knows that no matter what happens; No Invader will ever be left behind.

"I should have known I would die alone. On land." "It's all right, Namor. You know me. No one gets left behind."

Avengers/Invaders (2008) #8