#this is like that one episode from Bojack Horseman

[trashiemaxxie]

A clockwork orange but instead of the Ludovico technique, Alex just gets a fucking lobotomy

[jassnahkholin]

facing the horrors rn (rewatched s1ep3 last night for the first time, WITH MY PARENTS after I had convinced them Bojack Horseman is one of the best shows I've ever seen)

[partycatty]

Johnny cage and mayB some others being mind numbingly in love

Like they talk to reader and everytime just feel so stupid afterwards because theyre so in love and do stupid shit to impress

i love stupid men anon this works so well for me

johnny, raiden, kung lao, syzoth > stupid in love

warnings: big stupid hot sexy men (what else is new?), bojack horseman minor spoiler?? LMFOAMOF

+ bonus surprise character at the very end

masterlist

johnny >

• have you guys LMAO have you guys seen the. DLGHSDKJ the episode of bojack horseman where bojack gives diane the D in from the hollywood sign?? johnny is SO extra like that and for WHAT.

• OR YOU GUYS KNOW WHEN TODDLERS LIKE REALLY WANT TO SHOW YOU SOMETHING AND THEY JUST KEEP SAYING "LOOKIT" LMFAFOIFMOA

• "reader, reader are you watching - reader, reader watch -" as he's like about to absolutely FUCK UP a nerds rope or some stupid shit

• okay i'll be fr. johnny is by far the most concerningly extra of the entire group. he will put himself in stupid danger just to impress you.

• "watch me take on all these guys at once!" he'll call out to you during your time at the academy, surrounded by a dozen monks. he's in a sling and bandages the next day.

• "kenshi, i bet you sento that i can jump from the roof like bi-han did!" BAM.

• he'd randomly give you expensive gifts out of absolutely nowhere. or he'd give his one of many glasses away to you because he "has no use for them" or they're "out of style" (he's lying, he just wants to see you wear something that's his).

• oh? you briefly mention you're a tad chilly during training? oh no, johnny's top fell off, i guess he has to give it to you now. you know, to stay warm. oh, you don't want his top? okay, here's a comically fluffy, expensive coat! and it just so happens to be your size...!

• lowkey i headcanon johnny as, despite being an actor, pretty blushy if someone matches his energy or really gets under his skin. you'll pass by him with a witty comment about his fighting style, or even just to tell him he cleaned up nice after getting his ass kicked by raiden. johnny just stands there with steam spitting from his red ears, hand on his chest as he fights a stupid grin.

• he is down ASTRONOMICALLY. not even the elder gods can stop this man from being so drunk in love when you're around. he makes it everyone's problem.

raiden >

• we see how flustered he gets when he's called out by kitana. he's a grown man with dick and balls but he's also flustered very easily! he'll be decently vocal about his affection for you, but then word trickles down to your ear, at which point it's so over for him.

• walks into walls when he's so entranced by you training. like face first into a wall, his hat fluttering to the ground. kung lao loses it.

• he can't even hear what you're saying when you speak to him, it sounds like an angel muffled by the clouds of heaven. raiden's also not the greatest with his powers granted by the amulet. if you go in to touch his arm playfully, a jolt of electricity pricks your palm and you yelp. raiden can only sputter apologies as he bows down, his cheeks tinted.

• he's the type to do little favors for you, ones you barely notice. your spot at the table is tidied, the training dummy is prepped for your fighting style, or he's the first one to bring you something if you forget it. that, and tiny favors to butter you up to him.

• "reader, you said you were nauseous last training. i prepared you some tea," he'd slide the small cup over to you, fighting a goofy smile. he rehearsed his script a few times, so he sounded more static than intended.

• will ask you questions about training or the weather just to hear your voice. he couldn't even recall what you were saying, he just loved the way your lips moved.

• kung lao pokes at him for this often, nudging him or making comments about you being his partner when you're not. raiden will stomp on his foot to keep him from talking about his infatuation if you're around. as if you don't already know.

kung lao >

• he's totally the bouncing on his heels type of man. he'll stare at you with a stupid grin, like a kid in a candy store.

• "was there something you needed, kung lao?" you'd ask as you tended to your own duties, organizing various equipment into baskets.

• "ah, no, not at all," he'd wave you off with a grin. "just enjoying... the view."

• you cringe at his words, chuckling to yourself as he speaks you in a daze. his mouth runs off before his brain can stop it from happening, so his biggest downfall with his crush is yapping. he'll sit there and explain his family history to you, or how much he hated farming cabbage, or his favorite meal at madam bo's just to keep you around long enough.

• kung lao always has this desire to keep you close by, so he continuously does stupid shit to keep you by his side. including but not limited to accidentally slicing his hands on his hat, one that he swore was a genius idea. in concept, probably.

• he wants to impress you so bad. SO BAD. anything he does is deserving of a bragging right if he's the one to do it. lao would totally try to shrug it off so you could gas him up more. any compliment, forced or not, was music to his ears.

• "yeah, i totally beat raiden," he'll check his nails nonchalantly as he leans against the wall, telling you the story of the cabbage competition for dinner against his best friend. "really swept him."

• "that's just not true," raiden would try to interject when he heard lao's version of the story. kung lao just holds eye contact with you, grinning, as he shoves raiden aside by his face.

syzoth >

• im sorry IM SORRY BUT I JUST LOVE THE HC THAT HIS TAIL WAGS I KNOW THATS NOT HOW THAT WORKS JUST- JUST BEAR WITH ME.

• you hear thumping when you're around, though you're never able to find out where it's coming from, so you chalk it up to the monks landing blows against the wooden dummies.

• but the sound lingers when you're at dinner. the table is... rattling.

• you look up to see if anyone else notices or if you were hit too hard during training. but, you see everyone staring past you. just down the table, syzoth is sitting with a pile of bugs on his plate, his tail thumping in and out of view.

• "syzoth," kenshi will gently say, leaning into his ear to whisper something. syzoth flushes a green tint and tries to resume to his meal, the bugs scurrying out of his chopsticks as he struggles to keep it together.

• out of respect for his dignity, you hold your tongue at his obvious affection. syzoth tries to keep it under wraps but he can't help it when you're just so cute!

• he'll stand close by you, inching closer and closer until you notice. he'll slip you little trinkets and flora with a small smile. anything from a rock that matches the shades of your eye, to a flower he picked by the gardens, to a stick. a nice stick, to be fair! you wonder if this is zaterran courtship.

• "it reminded me of you," he'd lean into your ear. your bedside table is decorated with various... outside decor.

BONUS! kitana >

• kitana knew she couldn't get entangled with the umgadi after seeing how risky mileena is with tanya, but my god were you breathtaking.

• you would often accompany her in the carriages as she waved to her people, eyes transfixed on her. you're devoted to her protection. it is your god-given duty. your eye contact was too much at times, and kitana would often catch herself staring at you, her hand suspended in the air. she'd forget to wave.

• "is everything alright, my princess?" you would ask innocently, in a low tone to avoid raising suspicion. kitana's mind short circuits when you call her... yours. even if you're referring to the umgadi's worship. she shakes her head and clears her throat, pulling her mask up higher to conceal her blush.

• if she were to give speeches on her mother's behalf or otherwise, she'd find herself forgetting what the rehearsed, or hell, struggling to rehearse. you were the one she'd come to for help with speeches, yet you made things ten times harder when you'd lean in to listen to her better. it makes her mind absolutely numb.

• "and you tell me to steer away from the umgadi," mileena would rasp into her ear as the sister sat on their thrones, you positioned by her side and eyes forward. "it seems you picked a favorite, sister."

• "i'm not the only guilty one," she'd hiss back to her sister, nodding at tanya. "it won't get in the way of duties, as long as mother doesn't know."

• you'd fight to netherrealm and back for your princess. as you fight off intruders or threats, kitana forgets to escape, instead transfixed on the way your muscles would contract and flex with each blow.

• she wants to be the one to care for your wounds. the power imbalance means nothing to her, you're her equal.

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

AITA for making a joke about someone's favorite celebrity dying (sorta).

I think this is fucking hysterical but a lot of my other friends don't seem to so

So last week I (20M) got really high. Like, too high. Way way way too high. Edibles. It was an accident. So I decided the only thing I was capable of doing was watching BoJack Horseman and texting. So I was sorta watching the episodes and drifting in and out of awareness while texting a friend group of mine.

Next morning I wake up and check my phone and I'm greeted with this long paragraph from one of my friends (20F) about how insensitive I was, how much I hurt her, etc. I was very confused and scared that I said something really fucked up, but when I checked the group chat I saw what she was talking about. In the show, there's a character who is a horse voiced by Lin Manuel Miranda. And all I was able to put together when spaced out of my mind was texting the GC "LIN MANUEL MIRANDA HORSE" over and over again. Like it was some big revelation I made. And then when said friend asked me what I meant. I said "going to the glue factory. Good bye asshole."

Now my friend like. Loves Hamilton. It's like a religion for her, she's seen it on Broadway FOUR TIMES. I honestly hate it for various reasons. Lin Manuel Miranda, I have nothing against, other than I find him a little annoying, which is a me thing. Me and my friend have an agreement where we do not talk about Hamilton cuz we'll just get into an argument. But frankly, I was too busy fistfighting God to remember this. I tried to explain the situation and apologize but she keeps saying I should have known better.

As I said I think it's kinda hilarious? But our friend group is kinda split on this. AITA?

What are these acronyms?

[genericpuff]

bit out of nowhere but LO Hades reminds me so much to Bojack Horseman idk how to explain it

Oh we've talked about this extensively in the ULO chat circles n such, especially when it comes to the most climactic scene in the show, the second interview:

The entire tone of the show showcases a very bitter reality with a lot of celebrities and people in power. There are some messed up things that happen throughout the course of the show, but they always feel like they're being used for comedy or brushed under the rug with comedy, because the show is, after all, a comedy. But I feel like that was the point, because it's not until the final season that everything that happened throughout finally catches up to Bojack, and suddenly... it's not funny anymore. There's no punchline. It really reflects just how much people in power don't see their abuse or wrongdoings as "big deals", sometimes they even see it as "just some funny thing that happened", all while the onlookers and victims of their behavior and abuse either become so acquainted with it they don't even see it as abuse anymore until they finally break away from it (Diana, Todd, Princess Caroline, etc.) OR they fight to be heard while the media tries to snuff them out. So then when the consequences finally catch up to them, there are no laughs to be heard, as much as the perpetrator in question may try their best to pass it off as "not a big deal" or believe they shouldn't be held accountable because "it happened a long time ago".

Anyone who sees Biscuits Braxby as the villain here is missing the overall point - Bojack has been responsible for literally ruining people's lives on several occasions, and has never been held accountable.

And yeah, I see a lot of that in LO as well, but the issue is the framing of the story isn't making it clear if it's actually going to have its "Come to Jesus" moment with Hades and Persephone, or if it's just gonna keep celebrating them as the heroes.

There were no consequences for Hades pulling out Alex's eye. They played the resolution out for comedy.

There were no consequences for Persephone turning Minthe into a mint plant. They played the scenario out for comedy literally by the end of the very same episode and then well into the next one.

There were no consequences for Persephone cornering Tori at his job. The entire thing was played up for comedy.

There were no consequences for Persephone raiding Leuce's home. She was rewarded with sex from Hades and it was, you guessed it, played up for comedy.

Just like with Bojack Horseman, we don't see Hades or Persephone treat these situations as seriously as they ought to. They ultimately don't care how other people feel or how they may be affected by their own actions, they only care about themselves. Just like with Bojack, we see Hades enter sexual relationships with women who are in a much weaker position than him, women who stand to lose far more than he would if the relationship went south.

(I need you all to realize that Hades is literally blackmailing her. He is trying to pay her off with a management position or some kind of severance and framing it in such a way to manipulate her into thinking it's 'better' for her that she take the deal, all for the sake of getting her out of the picture because he's with Persephone now. This is blackmail. And the narrative wants us to root for Hades here.)

Shit, I would argue Bojack is still a better character than Hades and Persephone because we 1.) see how the consequences of his actions do affect him on a deeper level (through his anxiety and self-hatred which he spends a long time wallowing in, making his situation worse, rather than seeking help for) and 2.) he actually does eventually start to seek help, but unfortunately there's only so much one person can do to fix themselves when their actions still haven't been brought to justice and their mindset hasn't truly changed; which is what we see in the final part of the show when, despite Bojack's attempts to be a better person, the Sarah-Lynn case catches up to him, and in his final moments up on that stage with Biscuits Braxby, we see his true nature come out - he thinks being an addict should absolve him from what he's done to others.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Except replace "addict" with "traumatized" as many of Persephone and Hades' actions are swept under the rug with "they went through trauma so it's fine". Despite the fact that other characters who have also been through trauma aren't given that same grace (Thanatos, Demeter, Minthe, etc.)

You could also go a step further and call out how the fans themselves will defend their actions as "but they're gods!!! gods were terrible all the time in the myths!" but isn't it funny how myth accuracy only ever comes up when it comes to defending Hades and Persephone? Meanwhile you'll never see anyone bring it up when it comes to Apollo SA'ing Persephone, or Hades having an emotional affair with Persephone, or any of the other number of things that Rachel rewrote for her 'retelling'. It's not funny haha, it's funny yikes.

I can only imagine how the fans feel seeing Hades and Persephone called out must be similar to how first-time viewers like myself felt seeing Bojack be put on the cross by Biscuits Braxby - "you're being an asshole, he's working on himself!" "leave him alone!!!" "the media is making a monster out of him!" "he's really not THAT bad!"

But he is. They are. And unlike Bojack Horseman, I unfortunately can no longer have the good faith in believing Hades and Persephone will have their comeuppance, or the people they've hurt will get their retribution. I have no hope that Persephone will see that she's the Sarah-Lynn of the relationship, a girl who was groomed into an abuser at the hands of an abuser, who had no chance of doing better because the person she fell for pulled her down to his level. I don't have any faith in Rachel whatsoever that she'll manage to end this story with any message besides "it's fine for Persephone and Hades to be who they are, because they're rich and powerful and really horny for each other!"

And Hades doesn't think he has any power over women.

[ober-affen-geil]

It’s ace week again and I want to start by saying I appreciate the constant and consistent rise of overt queer representation in media. I really, really do. This post is not about that, but I did want to start by recognizing that we are definitely seeing a positive trend of queer rep and I’m not begrudging anyone that.

On the other hand.

Why is it that Sex Education, a show lauded for its depictions of teenage sexualities of all kinds, only openly discusses asexuality in one Very Special Episode?

Why is it that Brooklyn Nine Nine, a show respected for its diversity, only mentioned asexuality once and it was clearly meant as an insult?

Why is it that Faking It, a show inclusive of many teen sexualities and groundbreaking in its inclusion of a main intersex character, only references asexuality in a single throwaway line meant as a “we’ve collected them all” joke?

Why is it that Heatstopper, a show that gently yet explicitly includes all sorts of different identities in its main teen characters, doesn’t have a single reference to asexuality? And if Isaac or Tori were meant to be included as ace rep, why weren't they identified as such the way the rest of the characters were?

Why is it that Jughead, a character known in the entire run of comics going back to 1941 as having two defining characteristics: a disintrest in girls/dating and an obsession with food and who was made explicitly asexual in a 2016 run, was not made asexual in Riverdale when the opportunity presented itself?

Why is it that when fandom was presented with Good Omens they chose to call it “not queer enough” when the option to see Aziraphale and Crowley as ace or aro was very obviously there?

Why is it that I’ve seen BoJack Horseman, a show that has earned every Emmy it has won, praised as groundbreaking for having main reoccurring character Todd Chavez’s asexuality be a part of several different storylines only ever from asexual sources?

I know why. Do you?

Happy Asexual Awareness Week.

Edit: I did address this in a reblog but since a lot of recent people seem to be finding this through the tags and this is happening with enough frequency I will add it here.

To all the helpful people in the notes telling me that a) Alice Oseman is aroace or b) that there are plans for explicit ace representation in season 2 of Heartstopper or c) that there are other publications within the Heartstopper universe that examines aspec characters...thank you. I know. That is actually most of the reason Heartstopper made it onto this list.

Because what that means is, a creator that *has* explicit aspec rep in other works, *has* explicit aspec rep in the main work that is the subject of the adaptation, and *is* aspec themselves made the choice to relegate explicit aspec rep to a second season that had not yet been secured at the time of writing season 1.

Setting aside that I know fuckall about what the adaptation/creative process was like or what TPTB were like during said process, from my perspective that fucking sucked. A lot.

Happy Asexual Awareness Week.

[autumnteawithfriends]

I despise CherriSnake and here’s why

Before we begin, something I want to clarify is that I don’t care if you ship or don’t ship CherriSnake. You do you, I’m not here to stop you and neither is this post. I just personally wanted to make a post on why I absolutely hate this ship.

Also, props to @cagneyblooms for helping me come up with some of the points.

REASON#1 - They don’t really work as partners for me

This is more of a personal reason to me, but CherriSnake is one of those ships to me where it feels like they absolutely can’t work out as a couple. Since the pilot is somewhat treated as canon in the show, they make no sense considering the fact that Pentious and Cherri absolutely despised eachother in the pilot. Both of them were locked in a turf war against one another and that hatred was mutual. Yet the show does a complete 180 from that and makes Pentious have this crush on Cherri out of nowhere, likely because Vivziepop wanted a straight HH ship and instead of deciding to just make a different character to pair Pentious/Cherri with or just make a entirely new ship. She just looked at the fandom, saw that CherriSnake was somewhat popular, and decided to make it canon last minute. CherriSnake during 2019-2023 just felt like a joke ship to me or something shippers who ship every character together would make. I mean, CherriSnake practically falls into a TON of popular tropes (Enemies/Rivals to Lovers, Angel x Demon, Girlboss x Goofball, probably way more) I’m not dissing this tropes, I even do these tropes myself with OC x Canon pairings I make. It’s just that CherriSnake felt rushed and last minute.

REASON#2 - They lack chemistry and actual interaction

To be fair, I partially put the blame on both Amazon Prime and Vivziepop for this. Amazon Prime because they only gave HH 8 episodes to really show its story, but I also blame Vivziepop for this. Because not only did she waste whatever time she had with those 8 episodes by showing us useless filler with the Vees and The Overlords instead of actually delving into the main sinners and why they’re in Hell. But she also crammed WAY too much content into 8 episodes instead of giving HH proper pacing.

But onto CherriSnake chemistry, Cherri and Pentious’s regular interactions pretty much prove to me that Vivziepop understands nothing about how actual relationships work and just make their dynamic one sided on Pentious’s part. Let’s be honest, Cherri does not reciprocate Pentious in the slightest considering the stuff she does to him. The shitty two dicks joke aside, not only was the kiss between her and Pentious forced because it was only a “heat of the moment” deal, but she also did this.

(Source: TV Tropes under Sir Pentious’s page)

I get that Cherri isn’t exactly a nicest sinner demon in Hazbin, but this combined with the two dicks joke and the kiss she and Pentious share makes her seem incredibly shallow (which she is considering how rushed this ship is in general) If Hazbin Hotel was like Bojack Horseman like some people claim it is, either these would happen.

A. Cherri realizes she was shallow for only wanting Pentious for his two dicks and never really considered how he felt, either leading Cherri and Pentious staying friends or Cherri breaking it off with him.

B. Pentious calls out Cherri for being shallow, thus giving both him and Cherri some development.

C. Cherri realizes that she only liked the kiss because it was less of them being in love and more of a heat of the moment adrenaline rush.

Or literally anything else. Cherri and Pentious never have a genuine interaction that either doesn’t make Cherri seem incredibly shallow or isn’t comedic.

As for the final reason, it may be a bit of a stretch, but I still think it counts.

REASON#3 - It’s borderline pedophillia

Again, props to @cagneyblooms for making me realize this point. Also, because pedophillia is very much a serious topic + I don’t want to throw the term around. I’ll be providing more evidence than the other two.

I’m not kidding, CherriSnake (atleast to me) becomes borderline pedophillic once you think about the lore Vivziepop spoon feeds us through her livestreams instead of diving deep into it. According to Vivziepop, Sir Pentious was in his mid 40s (best speculated to be 45) when he died while Cherri died in her early 20s, already raising a few eyebrows.

Yeah, this is already gross enough, but something that makes the age gap worse is the difference timeframe in which these two died in. Sir Pentious was confirmed to have died in 1888 London and Cherri Bomb died somewhere in the 80s. So not only was Pentious A GROWN ASS MAN WHO ALREADY HAD LIVED AND DIED BEFORE CHERRI WAS BORN, CHERRI WAS LIKELY BARELY A ADULT SINCE SHE WAS EITHER IN HER EARLY 20s AT BEST OR BARELY IN HER 20s AT WORST! This is also mentioning that Sir Pentious is also technically older than Cherri in Hell because depending on what exact year Cherri died in, Sir Pentious had either already spent nearly 100 years in Hell or he actually spent 100 years exactly in Hell when Cherri died. The only thing that really softens blow is that Pentious got a crush on her when they were both in Hell, meaning Cherri was technically still in her 20s in a way.

To conclude this, I hate CherriSnake. It’s one of the few Canon ships I actually despise since I either don’t care for Canon ships or I actually ship Canon couples as well. Even if Vivziepop wasn’t a terrible person, she’s still a really fucking awful writer who can’t stick to anything at all and is more concerned about her shitty Stoltliz soap opera rather than writing a good story. Writers like Vivziepop are the reason why research makes a good story.

[mistress-of-vos]

I'd make a longer post (and maybe one day I will) but since Lore Olympus, the story that introduced me to webtoons is coming to an end I'd like to say something:

I can't believe it is considered problematic. It has to be one of the sweetest, fluffiest, simplest stories I have read (hence why I still like it, it's a relaxing read before bed) and somehow it got too "kinky" for mainstream. It's laughable.

Everytime I dare to click on their tag or look for the # on Twitter or FB I see people clutching their pearls as if Lore Olympus were brainwashing teenagers into marrying a non existent God of the dead and have babies with him. What the hell?

The fact that people think LO is too dark makes me laugh. A single episode of Rick&Morty, BoJack Horseman or HQS has way more explicit content and dialogue. In fact!!! If it were up to me LO would have gotten genuinely kinky!!! All it does is have some surface spicy tropes that get sugar coated to not make puritans awkward and tbh that's sad. LO and the author get terribly hated anyway for daring to portray the most common female fantasy.

And this all makes me laugh but also mad because you'd think LO at least has some genuine dark themes but no? At most we have Persephone's trauma due to Apollo's abuse and yet that topic is treated as a therapy pamphlet because people couldn't handle an imperfect victim. Hades is a wife guy who shows little to no anger. Hera was re written to be sort of a feminist so that people stopped being annoying about women having emotions.

LO is a sweet, simple story with tiny spicy things here and there that were eventually pushed aside because people couldn't handle it. I wonder how Rachel feels about this, because at the beginning the story was extremely spicy and the only crime was being published in a platform as webtoon, full of people who can't differentiate reality from fiction.

Is LO a masterpiece? Idk! I enjoy the story, it's very self indulgent for me, but I won't go and analyze every detail to see how it should be labeled as it's not meant to be a perfect media. It's meant to be an entertaining, nice story of romance and it does that job very well. This need to demand perfect writing while also crucifying authors over "dark" themes is ridiculous and contradictory.

And I keep wondering, if these people loathe LO so much, why dedicate all that time to the infinte posts they make about how they would have told the story? And all those re tellings are boring! It's always "So Persephone and Hades won't ever kiss here because she's a lesbian. Also he doesn't appear at all. And Demeter isn't an abusive mom! Oh and everyone is ugly because gods shouldn't be beautiful! And Apollo isn't evil he's uwu baby. And no toxic relationships here, Zeus is a good husband!"

Sweet Gaia, you guys wouldn't handle Saint Seiya having Athena in the body of a teenage girl with big tits and who's constantly in the edge of breaking her virginity vows. These attitude screams of jealousy and puritanism and both are disgusting.

TLDR: LO being too problematic for people is both funny and annoying. I wished it actually were as kinky and dark as people insist it is. I'd pay for a toxic romance, but that being said, I LOVE it very much as it is and it's nice to have a re telling that, while not pretending to be loyal to mythology, didn't went for a route of sanitizing all the myths. I hope that once it ends haters will move on and let real fans and the author alone. 🙏

[nunalastor]

tbh one of my biggest fandom pet peeves has got to be when people judge works by the same literary standards

because then you get annoying arguments like "it's not that deep" or "this interpretation is wrong because of this minor detail"

often, it has a lot to do with the type of creative who made the show and their intention.

with shows like breaking bad, hannibal, walking dead? a significant amount of the work is probably that deep. they're very traditional writers / film makers, one person is responsible for a lot of things and has a lot of creative control. so, they tend to care about things like color and name symbolism, foreshadowing, etc. etc. and if you read interviews with creators like greg nicotero, bryan fuller, or vince gilligan, you get a sense that a lot goes into every detail and there are massive canon bibles. it doesn't always mean it's true of every episode - but it is true of a significant amount of the work.

and it's not just fancy dramas - it's also sitcoms and animated shows/movies like over the garden wall and most disney stuff from the 90s like the lion king. but people are quick to dismiss those genres as "not that deep".

those are just some of the more obvious examples off my head.

then there are works that are somewhere in the between like a lot of modern sitcoms like community, most marvel movies, bluey, rick and morty, bojack horseman, and helluva boss/hazbin hotel where the creators put a lot of time, effort, and depth into certain ideas or parts of a work but are just having a good time with others. often, they can't be as precious with the work because there are a lot of people working on it. so, at the end of the day, their focus is good overall storytelling, good characters, or humor/entertainment.

their characters aren't always meant to be 100% in character. their world-building isn't always going to be 100% consistent - either because they don't have creative control over all of it or it's just not a priority for them. and on the most extreme end (e.g. marvel's civil war), they're going to shove characters into certain roles for the bigger picture theme/idea or do something extreme with them for a laugh (e.g. alastor doesn't sleep/shower- alastor would wear his clothes in the shower).

because at the end of the day, they want to tell a good story or good joke and there's more of a micro vs. macro focus. some people are focused on characters. some people are focused on the world. some people are focused on certain episodes.

but fandom tends to go to one of two extremes and dismiss it all as not-that-deep or try to analysis it by the same standards as something that's written more traditionally

for me? hazbin/helluva boss very much fit into that latter category.

a lot of parts of the show are just not that deep. the creators probably don't care about name or color symbolism. there are a lot of contradictory uses of it in the show. often, the names are picked arbitrarily (lute = lieutenant, sera/em = seraphim) because they had been calling them that so long

viv likes world-building and has assigned colors to each ring and differentiated male/female imps and classes of characters ... but she changes stuff a lot and would rather have a good shot than be nitpicky about color symbolism. she changes things so often, she forgets about's been established as canon. oftentimes, she dosn't want to sacrifice a cool design for something nitpicky.

she's not precious about every aspect of her characters' specific personalities - but you also can't totally dismiss them as not-that-deep because she does care a lot about certain personality traits and the arc the character will take based on it (e.g. blitzo's trust issues).

but in fandom, people use both extremes as a way to shit talk other creators' interpretations or police how they write or draw and it's just so tiring.

[cosmonadarovicarts]

Series/webtoons if you like Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss

Lovely hell

I'll start right away with the probably least known AND best of all - at least in terms of being similar to the universe of HH and HB-.

"Tanz, a powerful creature of pure evil, is vanished to Earth agaist her will. Weak and without a plan, she'll have to rely to Cain, a human, to guide her throught the world and figure a way back to her home: Hell."

First of all, it's a webtoon, so you can read it for free on Webtoon! Created by Tita (stage name Lorsupp), the story takes place in the present day. our protagonists are biblical characters (I won't give spoilers about who Tanz is. Cain, you guys must have already understood...).

This webtoon deserves much more recognition! the story is organic and well-paced, funny and tense when necessary. The characters are super charismatic and have chemistry, the Lore of Hell is super interesting and with a different approach from HH/HB. I love the character design - you can see the evolution of the author's traits as the chapters go by.

It's great to see other ways of approaching well-known characters -like the Jewish/Christian angels and demons-. A emphasis for Gabriel, ahhh this character hahah Anyway, this webtoon is the one I most recommend!

You can read it -> Webtoon account

When Instagram starts working again, I'll share the creator's account here!

Vilanius

This series - with just a few episodes left - is a Mexican animation released for Cartoon Network. Compared to HH's type of humor, here it is much more toned down, as it is aimed at a younger audience.

"Villainous is the story of Black Hat Org., run by Black Hat (whose name is synonymous with villain, a reference to the evil black-hatted cowboys of Western films) and his team of three less evil sidekicks. Black Hat is trying to sell various evil inventions created by Dr. Flug and is desperate to fulfill his evil aspirations. However, things often end badly for him, as brilliant innovations tend to have small and often comical flaws."

The lore has nothing related to the Hell, but it still focuses on the evil side of the story. I love the character designs, very similar to HH. It's worth checking out, even more Latin animation!

The Good Place

A series already consolidated and finished. One of my favorites on Netflix!

Even though it's not exactly Heaven and Hell, the concept is very similar. but what stands out here is the philosophical debate about what is right and wrong, how to be a good person in a world marked by individualism, competition and exploitation so that a person can have the basics to survive? -neoliberalism cough cough-.

"Eleanor Shellstrop wakes up to discover that she has died and entered the afterlife. But when she is told by her mentor Michael that she is in the "Good Place" because of her good deeds, helping to get innocent people off death row, she realizes that a mistake has been made because the people They think she is someone else with the same name."

Question about existentialism, ethics and the meaning of life debated in a fun way! A quick comparison to Bojack Horseman, a series that I love. in The Good Place, the existentialism, life and death are treated in a much more optimistic and... beautiful way, while in Bojack it is pessimistic and heavy. the debates on human existence can have lighter conclusions - this is not a criticism of Bojack, just a different approach.

Guardians of the Mansion of Horror

This recommendation won't have a personal review because... I still need to watch it! but I saw so many people recommending it, saying that it has good LGBT+ representation that I thought it would be interesting to bring it here. If anyone has already watched it and wants to say something about it...

"Guardians of the Mansion of Horror follows friends Barney and Norma as they work at a theme park during the summer. The two take the night shift and are responsible for organizing the place while it is empty. What they didn't expect is that this fun place is actually an interdimensional portal to hell. Suddenly, several supernatural creatures appear to haunt the Earth and the two friends must join forces to stop them. To do this, they receive help from the talking dog, Pugsley."

Inside Job

Here we have the biggest injustice in the history of Netflix, the cancellation of this series! I brought it here because of their type of acidic and critical humor towards society - not that this criticism is present in HH-. An adult animation, with swear words and the same irreverent touch as HH, following the shadow side of society.

"A dysfunctional team working in a hidden government department is tasked with keeping conspiracies around the secret world. From complicated attacks to secret societies, anti-social technology genius Reagan Ridley will need to work in a place full of shapeshifting reptilians and psychic mushrooms, at the same time as she must deal with an unbalanced father, in order to achieve the dream she dreams of. promotion."

Emphasis to the animation itself and the character design. When it comes to other species, we have unique designs, they even resemble the design of demons in HH.

irreverent, intelligent and humorous. 🤌

Good Omens

It's almost a rule, if you watched Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss, you also watched Good Omens!

For those who have never given the series a chance, here are some reasons to watch it now: Inspired by Neil Gaiman's work - and approved by him! -!. It is focused entirely on this universe of Jewish/Christian characters - and it is possible to see how well they are studied! There are references that only those who have studied demology or the sacred writings of these religions will understand-

The first season has a wonderful rhythm with captivating characters - the second lacks this a little. The angel and devil couple are super charismatic and you root for them.

Watching some of the biblical events from the point of view of the questioning and sinister demon Crowley and the good lamb Aziraphale is wonderful!

[tired-hellowl]

here' a comprehensive list as to every problem I have with the current *unecessary characters known as 'Glitz and Glam'

Do they expand the story/worldbuilding in any meaningful way? Do they explore a new hidden dynamic/past conjunction with a differing character and is that explored meaningfully? What was the point of having them animated when Mammon can portray the same level of humiliation/degrading/on stage lack of positive reinforcements. 😐

I'm so sorry but I view these characters as necessary garbage that caused some animators arthritis via too many patterns, not enough screen time to have meat and potatoes worth of dialogue, or really any pretense within the story whatsoever and yes this extends towards every female character on screen but let's not worry about that !!! Even if they are IMPLIED to be from the ring of envy-a color or ring we haven't seen nor meaningfully conveyed to the audience that it even is possible to go in/exists- it isn't conveyed to the audience well enough besides the visual implication of colors???? Instead of having shitty b-plots that go nowhere via Stolas and Blitz goofing off in seeing stars, Moxxie and Millie getting C-plots for no reason, or loona getting a rabies shot- all of that time could have been exploring hell, going to different rings, focusing on other characters besides the main 5, literally I would prefer a quiet episode like BoJack Horsemans 'Fish out of Water'where we can actually see the personalities of the main characters be appreciated and shown to us but that's never gonna happen :/

What I've been worried about is not even the on screen racism/out of touch 'rap/hip-hop parody' leaves a terrible taste in my mouth, if that isn't enough then the sexualization/implication of an incest type dynamic and nothing else besides fetish bait with these characters constantly grabbing one another and not really acting like siblings moreso someone who has never had siblings attempting to write sibling banter and failing terribly :/

Why do you have a problem with 'Klown Bitch' it's so catchy! Uhm, no??? I feel bad for anyone who attempts to defend helluva/hazbin as good modern musicals let me grit my teeth in silence as to the glorification over white people dominating black culture

HERES A HISTORY OF FEMALE HIPHOP ARTISTS: X

Pictured above is very old concept art about twin characters and its the same hairshape viv kept to transfer over to glitz/glam- despite clearly being over designed and way too much going on Alá vivzie style. It just goes to show she recycles even from herself and not every design is always new hot and fresh :/ AND SPEAKING OF CONCEPT ART-

Also also don't forget salems' concept designs thst got passed even though they loon toony, loony, clown enough, and definitely majorly way easier to have animated besides the mess that is the current design meta ???

Love how you can clearly see the silhouettes being so easily identifiable comparably towards the actual amalgamated mess that is their current limbs attempting to hold onto their toothpick body for their head.

All this screams to me is viv using the artists thst try to come onto helluva and they try their best with what their given, viv only picks the best bits SHE thinks is worth her time rather then thinking about the audience or animating anything else besides overglorified white people rap 🤔

Also the episode literally presents its full internalized misogyny/racism within this episode because vivzie herself literally admitted to typing into script with a full chest that

'Women just ain't funny'

. . .

why present misogyny within the series if you as a creator aren't willing to tackle the subject matter? Why write about it or present it as if you're smart over including the joke in your script when it isn't even funny because it just further pushes women out of the entertainment/comedy business which mind you IS ALREADY VERY WELL MALE DOMINATED SO PUTTING OTHER WOMEN DOWN TO PUT YOURSELF UP ISNT HELPING YOUR CASE VIV???

So then what was the point of adding female clowns if all you were going to do with them was make fun of them out of their expense and then profit off of the fact that they are incest coded????????????

?????????Are we watching the same fucking series????????

[episodeoftv]

Round 4 of 8

propaganda and summaries are under the cut (May include spoilers)

BoJack Horseman: 6.15 The View From Halfway Down

tw References to Suicide, General Death, and there's some references to cancer/dementia also, but they're very small.

BoJack reconnects with faces from his past.

Listen... Bojack has a lot of THAT EPISODE episodes, but this one just takes the cake. It's the penultimate episode of the show, in which the main character (SPOILERS) attends a dinner party inside his own mind with every character who has died over the course of the show. They all have deeply philisophical discussions about what it means to live a selfless, morale life, the value of sacrifice, the role of religion in personal fulfillment. Every background detail is packed with so much symbolism, the shape of a chair, the bridge the characters take a smoke break on. It's got an amazing dream-like quality, every small detail like a wire phone stretching too far, things getting misplaced, characters get older and no one comments on it, ect. But this is also the episode that just RIPS into Bojack as a character (which the show is already pretty famous for) but he's forced to face EVERY mistake, and watch all the people he's lost fade into the darkness (all in ways that mirror how they actually died) while trying to confront his own mortality, and coming to the realisation that - he's dying. He's drowning in the pool and this is all happening inside his own head. Everything everyone tells him, the ways they're acting in this episode, that's not who they actually are, those nice things aren't things they'd actually say, it's just what he WANTS them to be like. And at the end he has to stop running from the darkness that's already taken everyone around him, and just let it take him. Stop fighting, just let go. And then, rather than the usual end credits song, we just hear a flatline that runs throughout the credits. It fucks you up so bad.

takes place entirely in the main character's mind while he's on the brink of death, genuinely terrifying especially considering the rest of the show is a dramedy, some of the greatest voice acting work I've ever heard, the titular poem performed in the episode is incredibly haunting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_View_from_Halfway_Down

Over the Garden Wall: Chapter 10: The Unknown

The Beast has come. The final chapter begins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unknown_(Over_the_Garden_Wall)

[alelelesimz]

here are my favorite things i did this year :) thank you for tagging me @madeofcc <3

i was just gonna make a simple post and for some reason i decided to make this whole thing i guess, even features my stupid handwriting lol. everything written above + some more thoughts down below so you don't have to decipher whatever i wrote, also links to everything. thanks for following my messy blog and allowing me to rant about splatoon every other day lmao love u friends

harmony my beloved

i love splatoon ok! i've tried to recreate a few different splatoon characters before but they don't really translate well to sims. however i love how my harmony turned out! she's my fav character in the game and i'm quite proud of this funky little edit :)

leaf carrying a plant she stole

as soon as i saw that pose i knew i had to use it with my girl leaf! simple edit, but very cute <3 i wanna post more about my nymph!!!!!

what is this? a crossover episode????????

bojack horseman is my fav show ever. when i saw the horse pack trailer i KNEW i had to make this silly joke :p i didn't expect it to get so much attention but i'm glad it did! fun facts: 1) i painted bojack's face in game but basically redid the whole thing in photoshop bc sims textures are uh bad. 2) i recolored pc's dress and god i wish i could've made something better lmao. 3) i converted mr. pb's glasses and i SUFFERED. they actually look terrible ingame but ✨photoshop magic✨

this edit of an alien oc that i need to name still

i don't really use alpha hairs but ain't this one cute?! and i love this edit! if you read this give me a name suggestion for this sim please

YES THAT'S HAPPENING

I LOVE JUNO BIRCH!!! i literally need to stop myself from making another juno post every time she posts anything online lol. but that hot dog costume is iconic, what can i say.

sims in the city, baby + everything i made about them

i've been wanting to recreate these guys ever since i joined simblr back in 2019 (jesus christ) and i finally did! i'm very proud of them and happy so many people like them :) i loved this game growing up but none of my friends played it, so it's really cool to see more people who played it too!

also, that roxanna moxie lookbook i did? peak fashion

GRAP3FRUIT!

these guys!!!!!!!!! i really wanted to make a silly little band since forever and kari's edgewave fest finally pushed me to make them and I LOVE THEM! i can't wait to keep making more stuff with them babyyyyyyyyaskldjalskhdfklasj

[crooked-wasteland]

Hazbin Hotel Live Blog: Welcome to Heaven

Coming back I found I did enjoy the last episode far more than I did the others. It obviously suffers from who the director is, but I could still see the more competent writer underneath certain portions of the episode. This one is written by Adam Stein who was credited for six episodes of Harley Quinn, a series I admittedly do not particularly care for. I wouldn’t consider the series bad and I enjoy scenes more than the whole, but its clear that Hazbin and much of Medrano’s writing ideas are in many ways ripped off from Harley Quinn far more than Bojack Horseman. To be frank, if Medrano had stuck her comparison to Harley Quinn, I doubt she would be criticized nearly as much as she is for her writing. I know, for myself, if she had compared her shows to Harley Quinn and never once breathed in the direction of Bojack Horseman, I wouldn’t have ever been motivated to even criticize this series. I think a comparison to Harley Quinn is fair, it is an objectively worse version of Harley Quinn, but it is better suited to the style and audience of that show far and above something of high art and value like Bojack. Harley Quinn is simply not my tastes, I wouldn’t say it’s bad, but even with a gun to my head I could never in good faith consider it good. It’s better than Hazbin and Helluva Boss, but its also a fairer comparison.

Vaggie adds “gah” to her line about being a liar in the most painful way. While they obviously paid Stephanie the most, they in no way paid her enough to care. It was physically written into the script and it highlights how little the actress actively participated in the series. She didn’t even try to make it sound natural, she doesn’t care for the character she is playing and she doesn’t care whether or not we know.

It makes no sense that Angel Dust is still working for Valentino. He could just stay in the hotel and ignore Val’s calls and texts like we have actively seen him do. So it’s like he hates working for Val, does so under duress and due to a contract on his soul, but Charlie is the princess of Hell whom Valentino openly stated he was threatened by and her hotel and patrons are under the protection of Lucifer who aligned himself with Charlie and her goals…. Just don’t go? There is Vaggie, Charlie, Lucifer and even Alastor who are more than capable of handling someone like Valentino on their own, let alone as a united front. Why is this still happening?

The physical comedy falls flat. Cheri grabs Sir Pentious’ hand and it cracks and is all mangled like it is broken, but he has zero response to it. The humor requires there to be a reaction to the level of violence displayed. Having not even a minor one means the sequence may as well not have happened, and it frankly feels like an excuse to just say Alex Brightman was in the episode and have him say as many lines as possible regardless of whether or not he should. I genuinely don’t understand why this character is even in Hell. Who is he as a person? Just why?

Sera says she only green-lit the exterminations so that Hell didn’t act up, and places the blame on Adam for Lucifer getting involved. But then she just… keeps letting Adam do what he’s doing, which is what caused her to feel threatened like this in the first place. So essentially “This is all your fault because of the things you’ve done. So keep doing them.” I don’t even get why Sera or any of Heaven feels this way about Hell. I assume Sera knows Charlie’s plans about redemption, but she seems threatened by it? When in reality treating Heaven like a prize for sinners seems like a logical way of cooperating with Hell and even maintaining civil relations.

Also, can I just point out how the character designs really fail to send any sort of message. Alastor, Niffty, Velvette, Carmella and her daughters, Rosie, and Mimzy are hyper humanoid demons in a Hell where non-human designs make up a majority of the cast and the distorted, abstract and animalistic designs in Hell make sense, whereas Heaven is mostly humanoid with random demonic designs walking around. It fails to send a message as well as just makes Heaven and Hell entirely the same. It fails to really sell the idea that Heaven is in any way better than Hell. Honestly, demons should have less human designs and appear more twisted and deformed. Heaven should have prioritized humanoid figures. Especially seeing as Medrano with a heritage in Latin America and Catholicism would know that the idea of Christianity she is supposedly criticizing emphasizes that humans were made “in the image” of god and angels. It also sets up an idea of one’s soul being cleansed by having this “godly” form. Mixing in furry designs at the same rate as Hell collapses any argument for media literacy or messaging being made.

Welcome to Heaven as a song is the best song of the show thus so far. It is the One Short Day of Hazbin, a vapid superficial scene-setting song that isn’t meant to further the characters, just the plot, and it actually succeeds. I’m not amazed by it, never would i play it for enjoyment reasons, but it works for the role it plays and is the only song that does so well.

Adam is telling Vaggie her own backstory, my favorite bad writing trope.

Additionally, I thought heavenly weapons were the only thing that could harm an angel. But Lute just rips off Vaggie’s wings with her bare hands. It really confuses the world when you don’t even keep to your own rules.

In the previous episode, Charlie says the hotel isn’t “working”, this episode has Adam demanding “evidence”. The lack of understanding what Charlie is looking for when she says Progress is never defined. On one hand she says Angel Dust is making progress, but just the last episode said that the hotel wasn’t actually helping anyone. Even at the start of the episode we don’t see any change in Angel Dust, just that he’s sad. He still swears performs sex work, is rude and crude, and at no point has his situation with drug addiction been addressed in any way. I can appreciate not wishing to say someone performing sex work is committing sin. As well as the implication that how one holds themself is unimportant to Heaven. But I think everyone can agree that drug addiction and abuse is harmful to those in the addiction and those who care for them. And also, it is extremely difficult to break. Drug addiction would be an excellent analogy for sin and breaking it would work as a parallel for redemption easily. So why is it the one thing you had going for you in way of themes and a show of progress and character growth we’ve never actually even addressed. In fact, Loser Baby enables the idea that Angel Dust’s use of drugs is fine because he’s a loser anyway. Just give up on yourself. So when this episode inevitably implies that Angel has actually been making progress on that front, it’ll make no sense.

That happened a whole lot sooner than I thought it would. And it being Husk saying he thought Angel was “Better than that” really does make his whole message in Loser Baby hypocritical. Him being the one to judge others on how they cope, offloading his hypocrisy on the excuse “I’m not trying to get to heaven”, but then still performs the emotionally abusive tactic of publicly and maliciously shaming is partner into a form of compliance. And this is the romantic relationship I’m supposed to be going nuts over? Even in the case where one can argue he is doing it from a place of concern, he has never once cared about Angel’s drug use in the series. It has never been mentioned in any detail of it being harmful. It is literally placed on the same level as his hypersexuality in the song Loser Baby, which we are supposed to wave away as not being harmful because he enjoys it. The line is he “samples” every sex toy and drug. This is just the Alastor must be lying because nothing makes sense argument, except its the world that doesn’t make sense and thus nothing can be trusted and the suspension of disbelief and the act of world building is inherently gone. This isn’t even a story at this point. It is merely a bunch of drawings doing things for nearly half an hour because time is money, and Medrano likes money.

I feel the setup isn’t too bad. It’s the story of Job, which, yes, you should use the material you are criticizing if you are actually seeking to criticize it (whether or not Medrano’s is even attempting a critique on Christianity is hugely up to debate, but that’s not for this kind of post). It’s Lucifer in the Bible coming to the court of god and saying he’s been on earth observing the humans. He claims humans would never worship god if not for god incentivizing them through blessings and so god is like, “bet, do your worst”. Except, in the Bible story it shows god’s callousness. He allows Job to suffer and gives permission to Lucifer to torture this faithful man, of which when Job laments, god chastises him for doubting. This removes the negative qualities of god from the story by just watching Angel Dust make his own decisions. Which works for the idea of free will, I suppose, but the idea of free will being imagination from the last episode to now just waiting for Angel Dust to choose to conform to an idea of morals takes away any meta critique on the nature of heaven. Just saying.

Still not a fan of how infantilized the show makes Niffty.

The scene with Angel standing up to Valentino was such an attempt at an emotional reaction, and in reality it only succeeds in tiptoeing the edge of emotional catharsis. It never gets to reach that point because we don’t actually see the way that Val and Angel interact most of the time. And I’ll just say it, the Poison sequence ruins this scene. It set up this idea that Angel Dust has complicated feelings for Valentino and in many ways their relationship is just as much an addiction as the drugs. But we never see the harmful side to Angel’s drug addiction and nor do we see his complicated feelings for Val break down as he grows closer to Husk. It is unearned. And then having Charlie point blank say why that scene exists for the narrative kills any and all investment. It was there just so Angel Dust can fit Adam’s checklist. So there is no authentic emotions attached to that scene from the ground up. It is a contrivance that feels almost hateful in its existence.

Why is Adam treated as Sera? Adam was the one who made the list, but Emily contributes it to Sera. Sera didn’t even know how a soul ends up in heaven, all she says is “he was the first human soul here”, meaning she defers to him to understand. To have her be the one saying not everything is written in ink, when she openly is the first one to say she hasn’t any idea, really confuses the lack of story you are trying to tell.

So, the whole series has now confirmed it has no clue how to tell a story. “If Hell is forever then Heaven must be a lie”, so the idea of moving between heaven and hell is not a concept. Someone from heaven cannot fall to hell and someone from hell cannot enter heaven, except they can. Vaggie. Her entire existence is proof that heaven isn’t forever, so why would Hell be? If anything, Vaggie should be a spark of hope for Charlie. Additionally, the threshold of whether souls can be redeemed has nothing to do with if they can or not. Rather, it ends the same way it began. No one is in control and no one has any power one way or the other. But Vaggie being in hell, despite being an angel, who was never held in a court to determine if she should fall or not and was deemed unholy by humans, not the council of angels, just brought this whole house of cards down. In fact, the person on trial should have been Vaggie, and in extension Lute. Who is Lute to have the right to make such a call compared to Emily? Why does no one bring up this discrepancy? And having Vaggie on trial instead of an ignorant Angel Dust being critiqued without his knowledge would have been a better vehicle for not just exploring Vaggie’s past, but also the ideas surrounding redemption and banishment and the values/hypocrisy of heaven. As it stands, this episode was a waste of everyone’s time.

Adam Stein brought nothing to the table, all the same issues in Medrano’s writing are present and played out here. Adam may as well be a ghost writer as he didn’t even attempt to bring any of his own strengths to the script. I can’t say I’m surprised at this, however. It is just Harley Quinn after all.

2/10

[dongslinger--420]

Escape From LA: How BoJack Horseman deconstructs the sitcom

A LOT of BoJack's characterisation is based on the fact that he sees life as a sitcom. You can't separate BoJack the show nor BoJack the character from sitcoms. So much of the show is based on deconstructing sitcom tropes, and that BoJack thinks that the sitcom solution will work in his life. Take that episode in season 1 where Diane and PB are getting married: BoJack keeps trying to create increasingly complicated situations to sabotage their marriage because he has a crush on Diane, because that's what would happen in a sitcom. But none of them actually work. Diane and PB get married anyway because, why wouldn't they? And the episode ends with Todd telling BoJack that he should just give up.

The sitcom thing is played for laughs to varying degrees throughout the show, with Escape From LA being one example that is exclusively played for drama. The entire episode is set up like an episode of a 90s sitcom: BoJack is extremely close with Penny and involved in her life, there are characters with quirks and catchphrases, BoJack does his stupid BoJack dance at the dance, BoJack acts as the "cool grown up friend" to all of Penny's friends, the New Mexico leitmotif plays throughout the episode as a scene transition, the bjhm theme song is replaced by an 80s sitcom parody of a theme called "Kyle And The Kids".

But the thing about all of this is that the show isn't a sitcom, and everything I just listed has a real life consequence.

Much like bjhm itself does, at the start of the episode the show plays this sitcom subversion for laughs. Pete Repeat has an extremely stupid character quirk both in and out of the context of the story, and he never fucking says anything twice! Because that's stupid! BoJack's stupid dance gets him boo'd off the dance floor because realistically why would a group of teenagers do a 51yo man dance. Kyle And The Kids is immediately followed by a joke about Penny's younger brother Trip having an unprompted erection, which would crucially never happen in an 80s sitcom because, although normal, is not family friendly by any stretch of the imagination.

The rest of my points, however, are subverted in a darker way. BoJack's closeness with Penny means that he knows a lot about her life, and the scene where they go through their plan on what to do also has Charlotte in the room, who has no idea what they're talking about, showing us that this is not a normal level of what an adult knows (there's more to say about this one but I'll get to it later). BoJack acting as the "cool grown up friend" involves giving teenagers bourbon (bearing in mind these kids have only ever drunk beer), and eventually one of them gets alcohol poisoning and ends up going to the hospital. And every time the New Mexico leitmotif is used in the following seasons (i.e. every time New Mexico is mentioned), it is used as something to haunt BoJack. It's the equivalent of having an extremely dirty and terrible association with the Hannah Montana music.

It's difficult to decipher exactly what stereotypical role BoJack is supposed to be taking in this hypothetical episode of Kyle And The Kids, or whatever you want to call it. I think he's supposed to be taking the role of "father". "Father" is the role that he played on Horsin Around. "Father" is what he (at least originally) wanted to be in relation to Penny. "Father" is something that he has one frame of reference for: The Horse.

There is a line in Sabrina's Christmas Wish where Olivia is complaining about the boy she's talking to, and The Horse offers to take her to the dance. The funny thing about this line is that it's not at all out of place in Horsin Around, because it's normal for sitcom parents to have that level of involvement with their children. In fact, they have to, in a narrative context, because it's a dom com, and you have to have the characters interact with each other because that's just how stories work. However, it is out of place in Escape From LA, purely because we have Charlotte as a frame of reference. Charlotte and Penny are very close, and are shown to be very close throughout all of their appearances. But Charlotte is reacting to the conversation with comments like "who are these people?" because she's still Penny's mother at the end of the day. I would say I'm close with my mum and I've never given her that much information about my crushes (it took me half of my one relationship to even tell her that I was in a relationship). And because of this distinction, Penny doesn't see BoJack as a parental figure. She sees him as a friend, which is why she falls in love with him later on.

The interesting thing about this episode is that because it's so sitcommy by design, it's extremely easy to root for BoJack on your first watch. Because the "father" or the "cool adult/uncle/whatever" role in a sitcom is one that's known, and the father in the sitcom would never do anything wrong. Especially considering the background information we have that Charlotte is the one who got away. We, at least to a degree, expect BoJack to actually end up with Charlotte at the end of the episode. When BoJack says things like "you look just like your mother", on our first watch of the episode we connect that to his want to be Penny's father, because that's also BoJack's intention. But then everything gets shattered, both in and out of universe, when Charlotte rejects BoJack. Because suddenly, both we and BoJack are supposed to deal with the fact that, actually, why would she have an affair with Kyle? What information do we have that she and Kyle are not happily married?* This is not a sitcom. So then, BoJack starts to panic. He starts to think irrationally, as this illusion he has been creating for himself for 3 months and/or 29 years starts to crumble. He starts to see Penny, not as a daughter, but as the next best option to being with Charlotte, the next best option to keep living this lie he keeps telling himself.

Sure, it seems like shock value the first time you watch it. Because it's a subversion. It's not what you expect by definition. But then after you rewatch the episode, you can't unsee it. Everything is recontextualised. It's no longer a sitcom.

Escape From LA is my second favourite penultimate episode in the entire show. Other than being one of the biggest parts of the show that wasn't spoilt for me, it's so beautifully constructed and subtle and genius that it remains gripping every time, and I love noticing a new thing about it every time.

*For this very reason, Kyle's lack of appearances and an active role in this episode is genius.

[fuglyjeans]

Ok the first time I watched bojack horseman season 6, it sent me in a pretty bad depression spiral. But I just watched it again for the first time in almost 4 years, and it actually fills me with peace. I think I thought the show was saying no one can change, really; bojack will always be just some shitty selfish horse. He can try to do better, but he can't change the lives he's ruined, or outrun the consequences, and he'll always slip up. That made me so sad.

But now i see it more like... yeah hollyhock cut off contact, bojack goes to prison, Diane implies they'll never speak again, Princess Carolyn implies she won't work with Bojack again in the future etc. But at the same time all of these characters still express love to bojack and thankfulness that he was in their life. Even Todd is really kind to bojack in the final episode, despite having every reason to ignore him forever. They draw boundaries as they should. But there's still compassion.

Even though bojack has arguably lost absolutely everything, he's still able to find a little joy in prison putting on a play. And those people will still probably say hi to him from time to time... and after he gets out of prison, who knows, maybe he'll make more progress and find new people, start better relationships. He was already on the up and up... he relapsed, but honestly that happens. Before his relapse he'd been sober for like a year which is pretty amazing.

bojack is messy and his progress is slow. He's deeply flawed and no one is obligated to stay in his life, no one has to respect him after all the shitty things he's done. But what brings him true peace is being honest with himself about that... no memoir or dream role or Oscar win or long-lost sister or university can replace the peace of just being real. Taking accountability. I think by the end bojack is at least starting to realize that and commit it to memory.

I also think it's tempting to feel like post-rehab bojack is all better, he's a new bojack, it's unfair that the reporters and interviewers come after him to ruin his life after he'd just fixed it. He's not the same as Vance Waggoner!! But that's the thing.. even though it's hard, even though it feels unfair, bojack still has the choice to do better. He didn't have to do the 2nd interview. He didn't have to teach at hollyhock's school without asking her if that would be weird. He didn't have to do Horny Unicorn, he didn't have to go back into that party after reading hollyhock's letter. He didn't have to go on one last bender, break into his old house, call Diane and nearly kill himself. It's understandable that he did. It's painful and horrible. But every single time, he could have chosen to walk away, ask for help--maybe not from Diane or PC or Todd, but surely Mr Peanutbutter or he could have just checked into the ER for monitoring. And that would feel sad and humiliating and lonely but he would survive and come out knowing he didnt ruin things this time, even if he felt alone. Its ok to be alone. But he didnt do that... so even though i understand why "new bojack" fucks up again.... it WAS all still his own choice.

I could talk abt this show forever lol God