#But I actually really like 616 Janet

[oifaaa]

Okay but for Steph, what if she was the Wasp (Hope van Dyne (basing this off from what I remember of the Earths Mightiest Heroes cartoon))

Hope? You mean Janet right there's not actually a hope in the main comic universe and Janet as well is quiet different compared to the earth mightests heroes counter part besides Stephs the center of this au already as spiderman she's the one character who's definitely not gonna change

[tsukushicakes]

WASP REDESIGN ‘23 💛

So once again, I decided to refresh Janet’s design just like last year but decided to go more drastic. One, her hairstyle is no longer similar to her EMH counterpart as I began to distance myself from the canon even more and wanting to change it up a little. It can be reminiscent to the bob she once had in the comics (which I am hoping that makes a return someday, same with her fashion career that has been obscured for far too long!)

Her suit design is based on Avengers (1998) issue 41 and 44, bits of her EMH design and a smidge of her design for Disk Wars (y’know that one Marvel anime that they made with Toei, need to watch that) Her wings are blue, which is something I asked my followers and mutuals on Twitter (no wait, X) on what color Jan’s wings should be. 71% asked for blue and there for it shall be. I also decided to use a honeycomb brush for the wings texture (and also the suit as well) which made it looked better. The wings were based on the megascolia procer or giant socliid wasp, which is one the largest wasps of the world.

Fun fact, a wasp actually has four wings than two, which I just found out while typing this whole post lmao.

And the style of the art was actually based on one of the 6th anniversary cards from Bandori (specifically Mashiro Kurata’s card) as it resonated with my vision on how the art was going to look.

Now you’d thought this post would be over when I am also sharing my initial sketch for Janet’s redesign I did earlier this month. Nothing much changed from it besides the earrings, wings and the boots. But overall, I’ve been wanting to do this since late June but I haven’t got the chance to do it until now.

Another sketch is her and Carol, donning her new costume from her upcoming October run which I am really excited to see! (<- has never read a carol danvers comic ever) I loved her in EMH S2 and I have begun to like her 616 counterpart as well, she is so cool. And I think Caroljan is cool as well.

[scarlet--wiccan]

what are your thoughts on carolwanda, scarletstrange, wandajan, wandaclea, and wandaclint? also did wanda and steve canonically have a thing going on in 616 or was that only in the what if disassembled comic?

Wowwwwww, you just really loaded this question up, huh?

Wanda's good friends with most of these characters, but the majority of these pairings are not suitable for romance, if that's what you're asking. The only person I would feel comfortable taking that path with Wanda is Carol. One of the defining elements of their friendship, specifically from the 2010s and onward, is that they actively put effort into being better friends and making their relationship stronger. They've both failed each other in the past-- in fact, I would say that both characters have been majorly shaped by the ways in which their friends, family, and support systems have failed to protect them. In contemporary comics, they're both characters whose strength really comes from their resilience and commitment to growth and healing, although they present those themes very differently. Wanda and Carol recognize these parts of themselves and their own experiences in each other, and I think that's what allows them to click so naturally in comics like Thompson's run on Captain Marvel and its spin-off, Star.

To me, this is one of the greatest strengths of the female characters and female friendships in the Avengers cast-- a lot of them have been on a similar trajectory, and they're good at lending each other that support. That includes Janet, for sure, but she hasn't had as many opportunities as Carol to explore that aspect of her relationship with Wanda on-page. I was actually very frustrated that Darkhold gave them so little page-time together.

I don't, personally, ship either of them with Wanda romantically. I would rather see Carol and Rhodey's relationship get the treatment it deserves than put her with anyone else, and for me it's important that Wanda be allowed to date other people of color who are better equipped to understand her cultural experiences.

Clea and Stephen are married, and I'm not interested in breaking that up. Stephen and Wanda have a lot of history together, but I think of their relationship somewhat like Wanda's dynamic with Agatha--they're peers and friends now, but they started out with more of a doctor-patient, mentor-mentee relationship, and Stephen, like Agatha, was once very paternalistic towards Wanda. He's one of the characters I still hold accountable for mistreating, or, in this case, misdiagnosing Wanda during Disassembled, although he was certainly a good deal kinder to her than some people during HoM.

Clint is a hard pass for several reasons, one of which being that he slept with Wanda when she had amnesia after the Decimation. Years later, it turned out that the person he'd been with was actually a doombot, but he didn't know that.

[brw]

How do you think Hank's relationship dynamics with Tigra and Wasp would change in a genderswap AU? If Hank was a man dating other men, or a woman dating other women? Or if Hank was a woman and Jan and Greer were men? Would Hank still face so many problems in his marriage?

honestly potentially controversial statement but i don't think hank's marriage issues would change that much if he as a woman. the thing is, the crux of yellowjacket is that his mental health and his struggles are repeatedly dismissed by his teammates and by his wife, and ignored when they get severe until he's quite literally building murder robots on purpose. i don't think this would change were hank a woman, actually i think the way they dismiss his health would look even worse than it already is.

instead, what i think would really change is the way culture looks at hank. because i think were hank a woman and he was hitting another woman, or a man, i don't think we would see people calling this abuse in the same way they currently do. we can see this in that maddy pryor once decking scott in the jaw and sending him sprawling was never called abuse (and i don't think it should be, but it's notable compared to say, the fact that the malice reedsue panel gets called abuse by some) or ben in more than one comic violently hitting reed, and that's never called abuse either. society has a very specific view of what abuse looks like, and i think changing either hank or janet's gender would impact that and make people by large not take it as seriously as they do.

another thing i think would change is that the way hank sometimes feels dismissed by tony or by reed or by bruce or just generally by other genius' would get worse than they already are, if he was a woman, and i think it would become a narrative of the mistreatment of women in academic spaces than it is currently one of mentally ill people being mistreated in those spaces, because that's generally more relatable / understandable.

interestingly i think hank's dynamic with greer would change more than his dynamic with janet, especially re: william. i imagine if hank's skrull dopplegander gave birth to a son, she would be much more assertive in wanting to be part of william's life. it's not that 616 hank doesn't want that, but he mostly wants to respect greer's boundaries while I think genderbent hank would feel more owed to being part of william's life, which i think is understandable. i don't know how that would play out, i think it would either drive hank and greer apart or end up making them closer, but i'm not sure which.

anyway, it's an interesting topic, because hank is one of the character's most mentioned in discussions about period typical sexism in comic books and i think it's interesting to imagine what it would look like were the gender roles different, and also how the intersection of misogyny and ableism would play out. but i think the actual issues 616 hank faces wouldn't actually change that much, because already a lot of his inner conflict is repressing his issues as to not bother other people or not wanting to act out and be seen as unstable and crazy less he get thrown out of the team or worse, forcibly institutionalised like in the 90s perez mini.

[fate-magical-girls]

On the subject of the Avengers

I’ve read through some of Marvel’s Avenger’s comics, and followed a few members’ ups and downs. The inconsistency of how well characters are forgiven for their past actions makes me ponder a dark theory regarding the Earth’s Mightiest Heroes.

This pertains only to the main universe (616) comics published by Marvel Comics, not the MCU. Hot take, dark take ensues below the cut.

The Avengers, frankly, are enablers. In their attempt to understand and support their friends, they dash across the line to enabling.

When an Avenger messes up, the good and heroic thing for their teammates to do is forgive them the moment they show up with a sincere apology. And thus they’ve forgiven some otherwise unforgivable things.

Hank Pym is a former domestic abuser, While his general sanity during the incident can be argued, there is no question that he struck his wife to shut her up, and he did it with the knowledge that he can trust her to not fight back. To his credit, he hasn’t descended into domestic violence ever again after the initial incident...but he does backslide into red flag territory, especially whenever he rekindles a romance with Janet. Not to mention, up until his “death” in Rage of Ultron, he still refused to deal with his BPD responsibly.

Carol Danvers is nearly sociopathic with her ability to compartmentalize. Whereas Pym’s horrible deeds were intensely personal, Carol’s are depersonalized. She will brutalize people who are supposed to be her friends mentally and physically, all as part of her job of keeping law and order.  Afterwards, she never even recognizes the actual horror of her deeds, immediately going back to her friendly self with the very people she attacked. As of Jason Aaron’s Avengers, she doesn’t even register guilt over her actions.

Tony Stark has totalitarian leanings. His need to be accountable to himself translates into massive control freak tendencies where he keeps tight control over his technology, and eventually, organizes an effort to keep control over all Earth’s superhumans. While accountability is good, Tony allowed the Superhuman Registration Act to spiral out of control and turn into an effort to forcibly conscript and indoctrinate superhuman soldiers.

Wanda Maximoff is the superhero version of a mass shooter. In a fit of anger and grief, she opened fire on her closest friends in a rampage through Avengers mansion. While there is still her precarious mental state and manipulation by Dr. Doom to consider, she likely still comprehended that her actions during Avengers Disassembled were meant to kill the Avengers.

All of these people were unconditionally forgiven and eventually reinstated among the Avengers. No boundaries of acceptable and unacceptable behavior were ever set for them. Not much effort would be made to get the people the help they need to never do what they did again. They’re all allowed to mentor younger heroes with no caveats. More egregiously, all of them were allowed continued contacts with their victims. Everyone acts like the mistakes never happened. They’re as close and friendly as they’ve ever been, at least on the outside.

In addition to enabling, I get a sense that the Avengers forgave their friends before they were truly emotionally ready. They forgave them because it was a thing they should do, the thing expected of them as Earth’s Mightiest Heroes. But it wasn’t a thing they really wanted to do as people. There was no cooling off period so anyone could really process their pain. This performative forgiveness just leads resentments slowly building up, until it results in them exploding into sniping back and forth about past mistakes. This especially applies to the victims of the Avengers listed above. Most of the time, they aren’t allowed to be angry or resentful or hold a grudge. They’re under subtle pressure to forgive the teammates who wronged them, and most often they do, only to air their actual feelings out way down the line.

Overall, this is a tragic situation. It happens because most of the Avengers are good, heroic people who want to do the right thing. Unfortunately, they err on the side of compassion and create a situation that isn’t good for anyone.

[the-faultofdaedalus]

me, sitting bolt upright in bed at 2am: WHAT ABOUT ANTMAN

[stevetonyweekly]

SteveTony Weekly - May 2

I know I say every week that I read a lot this week but I have been indulging in my favorite coping technique and so this list is ridiculously long. Twitter encouraged me. Blame them. 

**Indicates my recent favs 

~*~ 

On the inherent homoeroticism of cake decoration by welcoming_disaster (616/8K)

“She’s matchmaking, Barton,” Carol sighed.

“We,” Thor corrected, thumping himself hard in the chest, “art matchmaking.”

“Who, Cap n’ Tony?” Clint asked, his mouth full.

“Cap and Tony,” Janet confirmed, cutting herself a thin slice of egg and gently depositing it on her whole grain avocado toast, “it’s getting ridiculous.”

“Wait, I thought they were—“ Clint frowned, glancing around the room as though to confirm. Nothing but confused faces met his questioning gaze. “Huh. I really thought they were fucking.”

“And there is the crux of the issue,” Jess licked a bit of spaghetti sauce off her lip.

“Aye,” agreed Thor, “there’s rub.”

-----------

The team tries to set up Steve and Tony. Things don't go as planned.

Baby lovers like you and me (never say die) by FestiveFerret (Old Guard AU/7.5K)

The Avengers. They'd found him frozen in the ice, told him he was immortal, of all things. And with the way he'd lived through seventy years deep in the Atlantic, he found himself inclined to believe them. They'd also been very… convincing.

Without question, they integrated him into their unit - The Avengers, a secret team of unkillables seeking wrongs around the world and making them right, supported and housed by an enigmatic billionaire named Tony Stark. Their immortality, it seemed, was a secret to everyone but him.

Ready, set, bake by ChocolateCapCookie (Great British Bake Off/11k) 

The Avengers are on a nationally televised baking competition, but nobody seems to have warned the producers that the Avengers, while they save the world everyday and put their loves at risk doing so, are a) insanely competitive, and b) absolutely terrible bakers. Steve Rogers, especially, has a competitive streak a mile wide, and he's determined to win this competition, but it's not easy when his only real opponent is also the man he's been in love with for years.

***To make flowers grow (in this barren heart) by SoldiersShield, KakushiMiko (Hanahaki AU/16K) 

“You hide yourself away in your technology, but you are just as human as the rest of them. Your heart betrays your desire to possess.” Her gaze falls to the arc reactor, and Tony's blood runs cold in his veins.

“The Earth will reclaim what we have lost,” she says, dragging a hand over the chestplate of the armor. “It is you, and your kind-- your greed that pulls life from the soil as if it were nothing. You will reap what you have sown, Stark. The avarice in your heart will strangle the very life out of you.” Arna meets his eyes once more, a serene smile on her face as she leans forward.

“I hope he is worth dying for,” she murmurs, before digging her hand into his ribcage.

(Tony Stark falls in love with Steve Rogers. A rogue enchantress ensures he pays for it.)

Shelter from the storm by silkspectred (KidFic/5k) 

Tony adopts a baby. Guess who's Majorly Fucked Up™ about it.

Keep on beating by itsallAvengers (Domestic Fluff/6K) 

There were an awful lot of things Steve loved about Tony. But one thing in particular Steve could never get enough of was his heartbeat.

The good or bad thing by petreparkour (Multiverse/10k) 

 “It’s the metal suit,” Thor informed Steve, his normally-booming voice tinny over the SHIELD comms. “What did Stark call it—Iron Man?”

“But he’s down here,” Steve protested as the Hulk roared in Stark’s face, startling him into waking with a shout. “How could—”

“It’s damaged,” Thor reported. “But it looks different. More advanced. And he—ah. He’s carrying you, Captain.”

“Please tell me nobody kissed me,” Stark breathed out, and then Stark’s voice suddenly came over the comms, but the man lying next to him hadn’t moved.

“Guys, come on, you’re killing me here. What is it, 2012? God, I hate time travel. First, I'm fighting Thanos. Now, I have to deal with my past self and Thor's bad haircut? Oh my God, Cap, yes I hacked their comms, they’re my comms.”

Steve nearly opened his mouth to protest that he hadn’t said anything when he realized that this replica of Tony Stark wasn’t speaking to him.

***The tipping point by nightwalker (Domestic Fluff/7K) 

Tony has a few quirks. Steve's still trying to figure them all out.

We two, how long we were fool’d by glassessay (Soulmate AU/9K) 

Steve Rogers comes into the world as unblemished as his mother. When Anthony Stark is born, his soulmark is an obvious pattern of ink across his tiny chest.

It only takes a century, two names, and a shared love of Walt Whitman for them to find each other.

The tape in the cave by betheflame (Canon Divergent/5K) 

Steve had no idea what was happening.

“You think I didn’t know that?”

Tony was staring Zemo down as though the Sokovian was actual vermin - which, Steve reflected, he kind of was.

“You think that I,” Tony continued, not hiding the sneer in his voice, “Anthony Stark, who has more powerful technology in my literal fingers than most nations have, that I wouldn’t know everything possible about how my parents died? That I wouldn’t know it wasn’t an accident, that your silly little HYDRA Nazi knock-off pals are the ones who murdered them? Please, you are pathetic.”

Happy ending by Robin_tCJ (No-Powers AU/28K) 

 Steve is a mobile massage therapist, and Tony is a stressed billionaire. What could go wrong?

With a decent happiness by torigates (Teacher AU/16K) 

Tony Stark is Iron Man. Steve Rogers isn't, and never was Captain America.

Or, the one where everything is the same except Steve is a kindergarten teacher.

Nothing left but scars by SailorChibi (MCU/6.7K) - Reread

Steve wakes up to the fact that no one ever compliments or even says thank you to Tony, and that he has fallen into the same trap of painting Tony with a specific paintbrush.

This is how he showers a very confused Tony with praise to make up for it.

Our hearts should remember and follow by frostfall (MCU/5K) 

Steve hums. “I didn’t know you could play. Or sing. Don’t think I’ve heard anyone mention it before.”

Tony shrugs. “It’s one of the few things, skills, I don’t flaunt. Not something people are interested in, anyway. Not gonna sway any board members by playing fucking Für Elise for them. Sides’, there’s a high chance I wouldn’t even play. Well, maybe if you get me drunk enough and near an instrument. Then, I might reconsider.”

(After a dream leaves Tony rattled, he turns to the piano as a way to distract himself.)

Finally, you and me by pensversusswords (Multiverse/10K) 

Because in every layer of time, in every conceivable dimension, he was always meant to love Steve.

By some miracle, Steve was meant to love him back.

***Full disclosure not required (but appreciated) by Potrix (Identity Porn/16k) 

The one where Steve knows more than he lets on, Tony knows less than he pretends, Clint has a big mouth, Bucky is a little shit, and everyone learns why keeping secrets never ends well.

Almost never, anyway.

Heartlines by nanasekei (MCU/7.9K) 

“Let me,” Tony repeats. He regrets it deeply, so much, he wants to stick the words back into his mouth again, and it must show, in the way his voice wavers. He feels exposed, all of a sudden, as if he’s asking something bigger than what he can actually say. Let me touch you, let me take care of you. “Just… Let me do it.”

i found a way to let you in, but i never really had a doubt (marriage series) by quidhitch (Marriage Series/16k) 

Tony Stark doesn’t believe in marriage. It’s nobody’s fault. —Well, it’s Howard's fault, probably, but Tony doesn’t like to think about that for too long, finds that it dredges up all sorts of issues he’d rather keep buried under a mountain of strategically employed sarcasm, humorous self-deprecation, and the occasionally effective substance abuse.

***Hide your love away by sineala (Soulmate/33K) - Reread

Tony has suspected for a long time that the soulmark on his chest matches Steve's -- but he's never told Steve about it. And then it's too late to tell Steve anything at all ever again. In the wake of Steve's death, the Skrull invasion, and Norman Osborn's rise to power, the identity of his soulmate is just one of the many things Tony cuts out of his memory forever.

When Tony returns to consciousness, he's forced to deal with the aftermath of a war he no longer remembers fighting, not to mention a Steve Rogers who can barely stand to be in the same room with him. Surely the last thing Tony could ever need in his life is more amnesia. But that's what he gets. And Tony's new missing memory just might be the key to finding out the truth of his soulmark... as well as his chance to make things right once and for all.

Break the chain (can’t live in circles again) by orphan_account (FWB/19K) 

There had been seven amazing weeks of dating Steve Rogers before Tony realised that they weren’t dating at all. And then it was a scramble to adjust to the situation as it had always been: being Steve’s friend-with-benefits.

And if Steve seemed a little confused and bewildered by the way Tony was acting, well. Tony was probably just misreading that, too.

Five times steve and tony (tried to) bail each other out of jail by Teyke (MCU/6k) 

Twice before Civil War, twice after, and once during. For very loose definitions of both 'bail' and 'jail'.

Cracked hearts under iron ribs by XtaticPearl (Established Relationship/14k)

Rhodey is away for almost six months now and comes to meet Tony after the mission. He doesn't understand the domesticity of the whole Tower and unknowingly sets off a whole truck of insecurities which make Tony crawl back into being a Stark instead of just Tony. The team is not at all happy and Rhodey joins them in trying to figure out a way to help their resident genius feel better in his skin.

The single biggest problem with communication by BlossomsintheMist (616/108K)

In the wake of Steve's return from the dead and the end of Norman Osborn's reign of terror, the superhero community is recovering--Steve has taken on a new role and Tony is trying to put his life back together. Things are still awkward between them, but they're determined to put things to rights. But when a discussion about their feelings leads to further misunderstandings, they discover that might be more difficult than either of them realized. Set in the early Heroic Age after the end of Dark Reign, this is a get-together story about crossed wires--and second chances.

What are friends for? by bobertsmallismydad (MCU /2.8K) 

In which Steve is targeted by a virus. Will the Avengers be able to save him in time?

Starving by festiveferret (Vampire AU/2K) 

Steve woke up starving.

***Everybody wonders (What it would be like to love you) by SoldiersShield (MCU/3K) 

“...Is that what this is about?” He asks slowly. Steve blanches.

“Oh my god. It is.” Tony has no right looking as giddy as he does. “Steven Grant Rogers, are you jealous?”

--

Or: Steve and Tony have been dancing around each other for a while now, and Steve's rather content with it. Attending a gala together just might change that.

Re(A)d all over by brandnewfashion, MusicalLuna (Drunk Flirting/3k) 

Contrary to popular belief, Tony Stark can blush.

It just takes Steve getting drunk on some magical Asgardian mead for it to finally happen.

***The Do-over Proposal by nightwalker (Established Relationship/1.2k) 

Steve wants to go on a journey, Tony doesn't think it's a good time, and Bucky needs to beat some sense into both these idiots.

A Winter’s Ball by alliejowrites (Victorian AU/3.8K) 

Steve moves to London in search of a patron, so that he can finally devote himself to painting. He is not expecting everything he finds upon meeting Lord Stark. A fluffy little Victorian AU. One-shot.

What’s a fanfic by starksnack (AvAc/1K) 

Kamala introduces Tony and Steve to the world of fanfiction. There is a surprising amount of content about them being gay.

[sineala]

How does Tony Stark kill Janet and Captain America in Mighty Avengers #20 - “Epilogue”? Very confused

Tony doesn’t literally kill either of them. Hank just blames Tony for both Jan and Steve dying.

It’s been a while since I’ve read Secret Invasion, but I’m pretty sure that the way Jan’s death goes down is that she’s been taking a growth serum Hank made for her so that she can change size. Except Hank is, at this point, secretly a Skrull, and the serum he’s been giving her has been sabotaged, and when she goes into battle and tries to make use of it, she dies.

So technically her death is the fault of the Skrull (Criti Noll) who is posing as Hank, but the thing is, pretty much everyone on Earth-616 holds Tony personally responsible for the Skrull invasion. Because Tony was really, really fucked up (mostly because Steve was dead, but there were a lot of other things going on in his life that didn’t help, like Extremis making him hallucinate dead people), he didn’t see the Skrull invasion coming, and he didn’t stop it, and somehow this makes it all his fault. This is what everyone thinks of him.

(This is why Tony loses his job as the director of SHIELD. Then Norman Osborn comes to the rescue, actually, and he’s the one who kills the Skrull queen, and everyone else is so thrilled with this that they give him the director job, and then he renames it HAMMER and everything is a nightmare because he’s Norman Osborn.)

Hank also blames Tony for Steve’s death for the same reason that a lot of other people (including Clint, including Bucky -- though he changes his mind -- and definitely also including Tony himself) blame him, which is to say that because Steve dies on the way to his arraignment at the end of Civil War -- well, he wouldn’t ever have been there if he hadn’t been fighting Tony, right?

And Tony was in charge of SHIELD, and SHIELD was supposed to help protect Steve, and they... didn’t. Steve was murdered by Sharon, who had been brainwashed by Dr. Faustus, who had infiltrated SHIELD, on the orders of Red Skull. But I think the explanation most people reach for is “it was Tony’s fault for fighting Steve” rather than “it was Tony’s fault SHIELD personnel were being suborned.” Also IIRC Sharon’s brainwashing began before Tony was running SHIELD, but I could be wrong about the relative chronology here.

(Civil War and Steve’s death were only really connected temporally, not causally, in my opinion. Sure, Steve died on the way to his arraignment, but that just happened to be when Red Skull chose to have Sharon take the shot. Sharon had basically unrestricted access to Steve, and she could have killed him at any point. This was just when it happened to, well... happen. But everyone blames Tony for it. Including Tony.)

[overclocksaa]

oh boy, are we talking about founding avengers?  (mostly bc i agree with taylor like this is one of the only universes where this kind of thing actually fucking matters.)

the avengers aren’t some government / international initiative, okay, they’re a non-profit.  and they’re basically a non-profit because tony stark was involved (as an interested observer loaning out his bodyguard to be on the team  and his fifth avenue mansion as a headquarters, and giving them money to operate with, and... - that’s the story he told everyone because tony is, at his heart, a dumbass).  there was no plan to put together a superhero team, it just kind of happened.  it was kismet.  there’s tons of comics that cover it from literally every angle and in more detail than the original avengers #1 and it’s fun little trip to see these green as fuck superheros take on loki and decide, hey.  this teamwork thing is kind of neat.

the name avengers has nothing to do with carol danvers, she didn’t come in as an avenger until a later iteration of the team (and at the time was ms. marvel, there have been a couple of other captain marvels before her, and she also used to have psychic powers - hey guys, remember when carol had psychic powers).  janet van dyne (the wasp) was the one to coin the name avengers.  hank pym (giant man / ant-man) seconded it.  and that was fucking that.  they were the avengers.

the founding line up is important in relation to the 616 avengers, because 1. it does not include black widow and hawkeye (who really got started as iron man villains, tbh, they were in tales of suspense for a while), and 2. founding status has special dispensations in 616.  if you’re a founding member, you have certain privileges other members don’t, considering, you know, you started this dog and pony show.  kamala in anad points a bit of this out when tony’s talking about them all coming together as a team (them being jane foster!thor, sam wilson!cap, vision, kamala, miles, and little sam!nova), because tony - at that point - is the only current founding member active at the time, so it’s his call to do it or not.  like they have little perks that only come by that mythical status, and it does actually matter because there’s...something of a seniority clause?  i guess?  like avengers organization is very loose but being a founder on the team has weight, and there are a few positions that come with being an avenger, because you have both a chairman and a field commander.  chairman swaps from avenger to avenger, everyone has a turn at that hot seat (tony hated it for the record, at some point i’ll go dig up some stuff but it’s right before the korvac saga and it’s why tony can’t let the korvac saga go and why generally you literally never see him act as chairman again - he was chairman when it went down, steve had been nitpicking his every decision and basically making him feel like shit about the job he was doing, and then korvac went and killed them all, so fun times!  this also includes the time tony tried to explain himself to steve by trying to reveal his secret identity to steve and steve alone so he’d understand why he was running around like a chicken with its head cut off and steve wouldn’t let him, it was just a whole ass mess, guys.).  field commander is usually steve, but also:

steve?  is not really a founding member?  he’s grandfathered in because when they found him they were still shiny and new and he’s captain america, but he wasn’t actually there for the formation of the team.  his signature is not on the original charter (which actually exists, along with the avengers by-laws, they tell you a lot about how the avengers as a whole work).

instead, the actual founders are iron man (tony stark), the wasp (janet van dyne), giant man (hank pym - he’s gone through 8503986039463 superhero names but he was giant man at the time), thor (donald blake), and the hulk (bruce banner).  that’s it.  that’s all.  and that would stay it until they found steve (the avengers found steve in the ice looking for bruce, not shield, shield is its own thing entirely), and then that would be it minus the hulk for a good long stretch until literally all of the founding members peaced out for some personal time and steve ended up leading the team known as cap’s kooky quartet, which was captain america (steve rogers), hawkeye (clint barton), scarlet witch (wanda maximoff), and quicksilver (pietro maximoff).  there’s some kind of mythical status there, too, because they were technically the second iteration of the avengers and that matters, too, they just...don’t get privileges.

anyway, this is a long, drawn out way to say that if you’re one of the first six, you get special deferment.  like your vote still counts the same and otherwise you’re just like everyone else unless it comes to certain things wherein you have things like veto powers, etc., because the avengers is your baby.  it doesn’t get used much like...literally at all, but it’s there, it’s a possibility, and its typically the founders that get used in tony stark decorating 101, thanks for coming.

[jupitermelichios]

Reasons I want to pick up Gotham and drop it right into the middle of the Marvel 616 Universe (even though I’ve never managed to make a fic with that premise actually work);

- Bruce and Tony have been friends forever, and the fact that they’re both pretty bad at this whole being friends thing hasn’t stopped them yet.

- Jen Walters thinks both Bruces are great (if deeply messed up) people, and keeps inviting them both to social events. They’ve been pretending they don’t hate another for a decade at this point, and they both care about Jen enough that they’re not planning on stopping any time soon. They spend any social engagements they both attend asking hurtful questions barely disguised as small talk, and have come worryingly close to throwing actual punches more than once, and Patsy has made it her job to run interference so Jen never finds out about this.

- Janet is so completely unlike all Kate’s other friends that she’s not sure exactly why they are friends. She’s straight, and perky, and the fact that she’s the only person who knows how to design an evening gown to Kate’s very specific tastes shouldn’t be enough to form a solid friendship on. But despite that, Janet is the one who buys Kate ice-cream and vodka after her and Rene split up, and Kate is the one who ices Janet’s black eye when Hank snaps.

- Selina says Felicia is a copycat. Felicia says Selina is yesterday’s model. They meet up once a week for mimosas so they can tell one another in person.

- Dick and Spider-Man meet when they’re both way too young to be superheroing, decide that they’re going to be best friends, and never change their minds about that. Peter knows there’s nothing he can’t tell Dick, and when Dick gets too far into his own head, Peter takes him to New York and they backflip off buildings until he stops feeling like he can’t breathe.

- Kitty Pryde and Dick should never be allowed near glitter or sequins, especially not together.  They average a costume a week each for the first two years of Nightwing’s career, and they don’t give a damn what anyone else says about wing collars and balloon sleeve because damnit they look fabulous.

- It takes a lot to shock Charles, but entirely human Barbara Gordon turning up on the mansion doorstep with a backpack of clothes hanging from the handles of her chair and asking for a job comes pretty close. He makes her their IT admin, because Danger has enough to do and God knows Hank can’t be trusted with it, and when she goes back to Gotham a year later they’re all sad to see her go.

- Barbara didn’t set out to found a team, but Laura Kinney obviously needed something to do with her time that wasn’t getting recruited onto yet another X-Men black-ops team, and no one else ever seems to know what to do with Magik, and Black Widow is just damn good at what she does, and honestly any excuse to hang out with Dazzler is a winner, and next thing she knows they’re a team, and something like a family as well.

- Robin II and Speedball vs Red Hood and Penance, a love story in three acts (and one death)

- Teddy is absolutely convinced Billy fancies Tim. Billy is convinced Teddy fancies Tim. Tim is convinced no one will or should ever love him, but by God he’s going to get these two idiots to go on a date if it kills him. (And if he’s a little bit on love with both of them, well that’s his secret).

- Tim definitely isn’t moonlighting as a sidekick, he’s only just managed to stop being a sidekick, but once you get past all the deeply weird, Moon Knight is a pretty great guy and a half decent detective, and Tim’s really on board with that whole ‘protecting the travellers by night’ thing. Plus the all-white costume he’s designed for himself looks pretty sweet.

- Steph has more than enough superheroes in her life, thank you very much, but honestly the amount the Storm-Richards are offering just for babysitting it’s got to be worth it. (Turns out Gotham-shock-proof is exactly what’s needed, and Franklin and Valeria adore her, and she adores Sue and Ben, and once she’s punched Johnny out for hitting on her they actually manage to be pretty good friends. She thinks Reed is a dick, but so does everyone else in the Baxter building so that’s okay).

- Bruce has no idea what to do with Cass, but he knows some people who might. There are plenty of Avengers who know a thing or two about teaching a kid raised as a weapon how to be a person. Natasha teaches her to set boundaries, and Echo teaches her to communicate, and Spider-Woman teaches her to have fun, and all of them attend all her ballet recitals.

- Kain has no idea why Batgirl likes him, but it’s not like he’s complaining. Cass has no idea why Kain keeps insisting he’s a terrible person, but as long as he keeps being a good guy she’s going to keep being his friend. (Aracely thinks they’re both unspeakably wonderful and makes them all friendship bracelets).

- Damian is not friends with Molly Hayes, okay? He isn’t. He’s definitely not. He’s just wearing his half of their best friends necklace and agonising over what to get her for her birthday because she’s got super strength and it would be tactically unwise to upset her. Definitely.

- Just because Luke hasn’t yet managed to persuade Riri that they should get married and have beautiful super-genius children, doesn’t mean he won’t.

- Harper’s not really much for leaving Gotham, but she has to admit this whole social justice global movement thing Viv Vision and Ultimate Spider-Man have going on is pretty cool, and after all if she doesn’t join up, who else is going to represent the unique clusterfuck of problems that is Gotham city?

- Duke isn’t really sure about this whole NuHuman thing. The Inhumans have a lot of drama going on, and also they’re an absolute monarchy which he’s really not on board with, but his DNA and Gotham’s ever-present Terrigen Fog doesn’t give him much choice in the matter. He visits New Attilan periodically for training on how to use his powers, and he gets on pretty well with Flint, and Ms Marvel is awesome, but for the most part he’s content to stay way the well out of their weird-ass politics.

- Look, Terry heard the words ‘Batman can’t be on the Guardians of the Galaxy’ and just sort of reacted on instinct. It’s not his fault he’s bad at resisting challenges.

[shellheadtm-a]

i’m stealing the idea of a topical mcu/616 differences list from @suprnovas because while i know i’ve done them before, they’re scattered and scattered brain and picking through it by topic is a good idea.  and this is more, obviously, for people who may not realize that 616 tony stark is an entirely different character from mcu tony, in terms of personality and the way his life has played out, and that’s important to me to point that out.

arc reactor / rt node - mcu tony had an arc reactor, a miniaturized nuclear battery, in his chest after afghanistan to keep the shrapnel out of his heart.  no such creature exists in 616 - instead, tony wore the chestplate of the original iron man armors (which were much different than the first iterations of the mcu armors) under his clothes and it required charging every so often to function as a fancy pacemaker.  there was a big to-do about tony getting the shrapnel out, using an experimental tissue transplant surgery ages and ages before anything glowy ever sat in his chest.  later he had the rt node, which while visually similar to the arc reactor served an entirely different purpose.  the rt node was also a nuclear battery/electromagnet combo, and served to power the iron man at the time (the bleeding edge), but it also served as tony’s brain in a lot of ways.  tony had both wiped his own mind and been beaten so badly by norman osborn he had severe brain damage.  the rt was the fine line between tony in a persistent vegetative state and tony upright and walking and talking.  while not a part of his physiology any longer, he had it for several years, considering until his complete body reboot it was the only thing working as the automatic functions of brain and removing it would literally kill him.

alcoholism - tony’s alcoholism is background in the mcu, and quietly just whisked away (and while a lot of that has to do with disney...).  however, in 616, tony’s alcoholism isn’t a once-mentioned deal and everyone goes on their merry way.  tony didn’t just “handle” it, he took that plunge from grace and hit rock bottom face first.  he spent some time broke.  homeless.  missing.  it’s a prominent feature of his character, once he gets himself in aa and sober, and it’s tested multiple times.  his sobriety is used as a bargaining chip.  people try and have exploited it for their own gain (notably obadiah stane and justine hammer, the original justin hammer’s daughter).  aa plays a big part in tony’s story, he does meetings, the steps, sponsors other people (notably carol danvers).  it’s not a quiet, hidden thing, it’s very public and very honest, and something tony is very frank about being a daily struggle.

obadiah stane - mcu obadiah was a father-figure to tony.  in 616, this isn’t even remotely close to the case, and instead he was absolutely villainous from the start, in the sense that he tried (and succeeded) to legally both maneuver tony’s company right out from under him and lay claim to everything tony had ever called his own.  he manipulated tony’s need for love and problems with alcohol to secure that.  he kidnapped literally everyone he could get his hands on that meant something to tony, from pepper to the baby of a friend he helped deliver.  and after he took himself off the playing field he still had a minefield laid for tony, in the form of tony’s entire fortune (sure tony inherited the company from howard, but every penny stane took tony earned himself) behind a wall of failsafes to keep tony out if certain conditions weren’t met.  tony ultimately succeeded, but it wasn’t a one and done deal, it was a massive climb up a mountain from the very bottom.  later, obadiah’s son, zeke stane, also came after tony.

pepper potts - you know how the mcu story goes, tony gets the girl, they get married, have a kid.  yeah, 616 didn’t happen that way.  616  didn’t happen that way so much that tony and pepper have literally never been in a relationship.  they pined after each other for years, sure, and pepper is literally one of the people tony cares about most in the world and always will, but they’re not in love.  pepper ended up marrying happy and while they had their issues ultimately they were still together at the time of happy’s death.  tony and pepper have slept together ultimately a grand total of one time, and that’s been that.  tony acknowledges that his role in pepper’s life is more overly protective best friend, not partner material.  pepper is super, super important to tony, but she’s not and probably never will be his endgame.  they aren’t like that.

extremis - in mcu, extremis is a mess.  a literal, whole-ass mess.  with a fake mandarin in the deal.  so here’s how it works in 616:  tony was the one (1) extremis enhancile that didn’t completely lose his marbles, and even then it can’t be said it didn’t cause some issues, as anyone who’s ever read the civil war storyline and his duration as director of shield will know.  tony’s version of extremis rewired his body from the inside out, literally.  he had a level of technopathy, a healing factor, he could literally tap into anything electronic he wanted to, connect to satellites, whatever.  it also made him cold, distant, and more than a little less human, with less control over his already prodigious temper.  it wasn’t a fun time.  it essentially turned his brain into a computer’s harddrive, and he used it exactly that way, to the point he was backing himself up in the chance it was ever needed (spoiler: he did).  pepper didn’t get extremis.  in 616 you literally have to have a special genetic marker, or it will kill you.  gruesomely.  and, put another, easy to parse way:  extremis basically made tony a technopathic steve rogers, a super soldier.

secret identity - the mcu has tony blowing off the idea of iron man as a bodyguard as ridiculous.  616 tony posed as his own bodyguard for years.  he kept that secret so close to his vest only a handful of people knew for years and most of the avengers weren’t on that list.  actually, the one who did know was thor, not anyone else you might think.  or...that knew because tony told them so.  lots of people caught a glimpse of it, or suspected.  he’s revealed and then covered up his identity numerous times, finally coming out officially and staying out as iron man during the fight over superhero registration.  while the whole world knows now that tony stark and iron man are one in the same, for the majority of tony’s time as the armored avenger, that simply wasn’t the case.

chitauri - chitauri were an mcu/ultimates thing strictly up until secret empire (which we don’t talk about in this house), when they were introduced into 616.  that battle of new york?  in the mcu?  yeah that’s kinda...normal, for 616.  it happens often enough that the world ending or aliens trying to invade or...look, 616 is entirely more perilous of a universe.  the battle of new york is actually a conglomeration of several elements from several different 616 and ultimates battles, including the nukes.  tony doesn’t have a fear in space because of things like that, he’s actually spent lots and lots of time in space, and notably with the guardians of the galaxy (of which he was one for a hot minute).

the avengers - mcu follows the ultimates storyline for the avengers, in that they’re formed by shield.  in 616, that’s not so much the case.  the avengers formed on their own, with an entirely different line up for the team, coming together as a group to fight loki and deciding that, overall, there’s something to be said about working together.  originally it was janet van dye and hank pym (who are tony’s generation - hope van dyne does not exist in 616, instead we have nadia van dyne, who is hank’s daughter that jan has claimed as her own), thor, bruce banner, and tony.  steve is not an actual founding member, he was grandfathered in and has all the perks because it’s captain america and you just don’t leave captain america in the cold.  shield had diddly fuck all to do with them, and has worked with them in the past, sure, but it’s always been a very uneasy alliance.  to the point that shield has tried to take over tony’s company at points.  the avengers are a free-wheeling operation, funded largely through donations, the maria stark foundation, and tony’s own personal fortune.  they’re peace-keepers, classified as a non-profit, and operate by their own by-laws and regulations, which if you’re really interested, you can find here.  the only thing i’ve personally added to that is section five, and even that has some basis in canon itself.

ultron - ultron was created by hank pym (giant man, ant-man, wasp, yellowjacket, goliath), not tony.  for very different reasons.  and he’s been a thorn in the side of the world since his inception, having caused the destruction of the world more than once that’s had to be fixed.  the living creature that is time in the 616 universe is so punched full of holes from having to do shit like this it looks like swiss cheese, let’s be honest here.  vision did ultimately come from ultron, yes, but his personality is based off of that of simon williams, a superhero in 616 known as wonder man.

avengers mansion / tower / compound - the avengers used to operate out of tony’s childhood home, which he opened up to that cause, 890 fifth avenue.  when that was destroyed, they moved to stark tower.  that’s been destroyed about a hundred times at this point.  currently the main team is operating out of the body of a dead celestial in the north pole.  616 tony stark would never lower himself to buying property in upstate new york unless it’s a cabin in the adirondacks, he’d buy (and has bought) property in new jersey first, and the avengers compound, such as it is, does not exist.

civil war - there is no such thing as the sokovia accords in 616.  instead, 616 had what’s called the superhuman registration act (shra for short) which required all superhumans to register their identities with the us government.  it was strictly us-based, for the record, and happened after nitro, a villain in 616 who can basically blow himself up like a bomb at will, did so in the town of stamford after being caught out by a group of superheroes known as the new warrirors for a reality tv show.  it was the final nail in the coffin for a lot of people about superheroes (which are a part of daily life in 616) and people were scared and wanted something done.  tony was pro-registration.  steve was anti-registration, and was especially hostile after maria hill opened fire on him.  they scrapped, and scrapped hard, in multiple public battles, until steve turned himself in when he realized not only was he literally about to murder a basically defenseless tony in the middle of a street (and what do you do when your best friend’s under you and tells you to “finish it” through his broken faceplate?) and that they, both sides, were just fighting to fight, instead of fighting for something.  on the way to his arraignment, steve is assassinated.  tony literally falls apart and loses his shit utterly and completely.  there’s a lot of awful things that happen that can’t be contained to a blurb.  and it all leads to the point where tony erases his brain and norman osborn lays siege to asgard, which is near the town of broxton, oklahoma.  it’s a mess, both more contained, and bigger, because the stakes are bigger and the number of players are bigger, and there’s a skrull invasion taking place behind the whole damn thing.  there are also approximately a million conspiracy theories, some people wondered if tony had something to do with steve’s death (he didn’t, it was red skull), and it’s since shaped the entirety of what it’s like to be a superhero in the world of 616 since, even if shra has been repealed.

captain america - is this really a tony blog without a special mention for steve rogers?  the mcu, once again, defers to the ultimates storyline (which is not 616) for steve, with shield handling the thawing and reintroducing steve into the world.  in 616, the avengers find him looking for the hulk and realize he’s still alive, and end up offering him a place with them, which obviously he ends up agreeing to.  there’s a lot of differences even with steve himself which i’m not going to get entirely into but he and bucky didn’t grow up together, bucky had fuck all to do with civil war for the most part, and tony and steve are literally attached at the hip.  tony literally has a captain america collection.  the cap collection is a thing, everyone knows about it, it’s not a secret, because captain america was tony’s hero before tony ever became a superhero.  there’s none of this tension right off the bat, steve ends up friends with tony and iron man before he knows they’re the same person.  they fight so hard because they love each other so hard.  they’re close, fullstop.  tony and steve have been leading teams together since almost the very beginning, and that’s that.  also steve and tony are literally almost the same age when steve is thawed from the ice; tony becomes iron man much earlier in 616.

bucky barnes - and while we’re at it:  bucky is a super soldier in the mcu, and there’s that whole mess with civil war and tony trying to kill him.  in 616 it’s the opposite:  bucky tries to kill tony.  tony talks him down and shows him the letter that was given to him from steve after steve’s death and offers bucky the shield.  bucky agrees.  bucky has intimate knowledge of the iron man’s inner workings and how to shut it (and effectively tony) off.  completely.  tony doesn’t remember any of this.   bucky is not a super soldier in 616, he’s literally just a dude with a metal arm and a plucky attitude who has a very unique skillset and was frozen for long periods of time.  he and tony have also been on a team together with bucky as captain america, and they’re friends outside of that.  tony does the arm maintenance that bucky can’t do, knows where bucky lives, knows bucky’s cat.  there’s none of this resentment there, they’re comfortable with each other.

physicality - this is a big one.  it’s what makes him and mcu tony at a glance glaringly different, because he’s so much taller and differently framed.  he’s huge and imposing in the suit, standing level with thor and at least half a head taller than steve.  outside of it he’s still unfairly tall, but built lanky.  he doesn’t build muscle mass the way other superheroes do, and tends to shed weight with a vengeance when he’s overly stressed.  and while disney princess eyes are a thing they both share, tony’s got that bonus striking combination of blue eyes and dark hair.  he’s also about a decade  younger than mcu tony, and looks a bit younger than that bc of everything he’s done to his body to enhance it (which is mostly all moot at this point, for the record).

personality - this is really the main thing with this.  the tony you see in the mcu is not 616 tony.  at all.  616 tony is actually a fairly serious character; he’s only occasionally flighty about his company, and when he is there’s usually some iron man/avengers motivation behind it.  he works.  he works hard.  and he’s known as a good man to work for, has good company morale, and takes a very micromanaging interest in everything his company does.  he also occasionally hides out in his workshop for weeks on end and has to be dragged out to see sunlight again.  he makes his jokes, he has some levity, but he’s more prone to rambling complete with flailing arms and technobabble with some philosophical footnotes than he is making nothing but solid pop culture references.  he has interests outside of the iron man, outside of engineering, and whole those are his passion, he’s a student of history and philosophy and art, and when he has time he plops down in front of dog cops just like the rest of the 616 universe.  he has unique vocal tics that are separate and distinct from mcu tony, that, while they both self edit, 616 tony is more obvious with it, stutters over words, gets stuck.  and then has a hard time unsticking himself.  he’s more sensitive; he’s less likely to give you an insulting nickname and reach instead for terms of endearment, and literally no one is safe.  he calls steve rogers beloved, for crying out loud, and steve doesn’t bat an eyelash at it.  he’s soft, and easily bruised, but he’s also steel spined and hot tempered.  when he’s angry, you’ll know it.  he’s also very kind, and very generous, and hates himself utterly and completely.  anyone who spends any amount of time around him realizes very quickly that the plastic i’m king of the world act is a facade.  tony will work himself down to the bone to make up for sins, real and imagined.  he overreaches in making decisions for other people.  and all around is probably a less appealing character in some ways - his flaws are very obvious and very human - but is in a lot of ways entirely more layered because there’s so much at work between his different masks and what’s underneath them all.  he’s the first to offer himself up as a sacrifice if it’s needed, and reaches for the worst case scenario first.  he’ll push people away because he thinks that will somehow save them, from himself and those he’s crossed.  he’s complicated, and his complications are not always easy or appealing or fixable.  there’s a truly ugly side to it that doesn’t get glossed over, and he’s willing to go so much darker if he considers it the right thing to do.

overall, there’s only some surface stuff between 616 and the mcu.  there’s a guy named tony stark who does duty as a superhero named iron man, but how they both got to the present day is completely different, and their lives and experiences are also completely different.  diving into 616 will be like...well.  culture shock.  and i’m gonna say it (even if i know the intake of breath on the 616 side is gonna be dramatic):  for people wanting to find a characterization more closely related to the mcu?  let me point you toward the ultimates runs. it’s kinda gross, but i have a soft spot for it and also it’s more narrowly related, you’ll see things that feel entirely more familiar, before jumping off into the crazy ass world that is 616, where things like steve rogers becoming a werewolf is just...tuesday.  the mcu takes elements from both, sure, but you’re gonna see a hell of a lot more ultimates influence, and that’s a fact.

[shellheadtmark2]

also, while i’m thinking about it, for those of you who may not be aware, i have a handy dandy care manual for 616 tony (that needs a bit of an aesthetic overhaul).  what it basically does is point out the differences you may notice between 616 tony stark and his mcu counterpart, because about the only thing they really share in common is a name and the fact that they’re both iron man.  i’m trying to, you know, make it as easy as possible for mcu-only people to come at me, because we do have a canon multiverse to play in that - in 616 at least - they’re very aware of.

if you don’t wanna fuddle with the googledoc, the greatest hits are under the cut:

+ tony’s 6′1 in his bare feet, 6′6 in the suit.  short jokes aren’t gonna make sense. + he’s blue eyed, not brown. + his morphology is going to be different - he trends to long and lean as opposed to compact. + he’s adopted:  his bio mom is a former rockstar/agent of shield.  his bio dad was a hydra double agent. + his friday has a hologram form (because we ignore the newest iron man run).  jarvis was an ai that belonged to pepper potts.  that’s...that’s a story in and of itself. + he’s been iron man since his early 20s. + for him, the first group of avengers were hank pym (giant man/ant man/yellowjacket), janet van dyne (the winsome wasp!), thor (who kept don blake as a secret identity), bruce banner (the hulk), and tony himself (who also kept a secret identity - for a long time everyone thought iron man was tony’s bodyguard on loan to the avengers).  steve rogers (captain america) was found by the group (minus bruce) and thawed out by them, not shield. + edwin jarvis is alive, well, and semi-retired these days.  he still consults on an as-needed basis since he has the most experience looking after the needs of the team. + tony’s been many things besides iron man:  he’s still ceo of stark, he’s been director of shield, and he was secretary of defense for about a year.  he’s also been a guardian of the galaxy, and part of a super secret club of high powered nerds called the illuminati who were very illuminaughty.  honk honk. + he’s carol danver’s aa sponsor. + speaking of, he’s a recovering alcoholic.  he does not drink and has been sober for a long while now. + his self care habits make mcu tony’s look healthy.  he eats like a garbage disposal.  he microwaves grilled cheese. he hardly sleeps and when he does it’s rarely in a bed.  he’s a mess and needs someone to take care of him because he sucks at it. + he and pepper are not together and never have been.  there was lots of mutual pining, but she married happy and tony moved on, for the most part.  they’re really just exceptionally good friends. + instead, tony has had numerous relationships that go from slightly unhealthy to full on toxic.  lucky in love tony stark ain’t. + his sense of humor is less outwardly cutting and snarky, more self-effacing and quick witted.  he loves his references.  he’s probably behind half the memes that go viral in 616′s reality. + his suits are, well.  to be blunt.  a hell of a lot more advanced.  at one point he was using extremis (long story) and could see through satellites.  it was a whole ass thing.  these days his suits aren’t connected to his dna.  we think.  we hope.  we’re probably wrong. + tony’s best friend in the whole wide world is actually like.  a bunch of people but the one he has the most intense relationship is steve rogers.  rhodey’s a close followup to that, tied with pepper.  happy was on this list, as well, but happy has died - apparently permanently - in his reality. + he’s never been peter parker’s mentor.  parker is much older in tony’s reality, and while they’ve been on avengers teams together, peter was already a full grown adult at that point - married to mj the first round, actually. + there’s about a year’s worth of time missing from tony’s memory - and it was on purpose.  he doesn’t remember anything, firsthand, about his version of civil war, or what came after up through norman osborn being over hammer, including steve’s assassination.  he can tell you about what happened, sure, but he has no personal memories of it whatsoever, and never will. + he and rhodey met as he was escaping captivity, not in college.  rhodey wasn’t in on the iron man and tony stark are the same person thing for a long time.  rhodey WAS iron man at one point, before he became war machine.  it was also a whole ass thing. + he likes donuts.

like there’s more but.  that should give you a good overview, cherrypicked, of a few little differences, and why he acts so differently - he’s been at this longer, he’s had a wealth of different experiences, and it’s shaped him differently.  the multiverse is the multiverse because each reality splits off at a point - could be recent, could be thousands of years back - where a decision was made differently, right?  they don’t...bleed into each other that’s actually super bad you do not want that to happen.  so his experiences are a result of those differing decisions, which makes him a different person.  it’s a thing.  anyway.  here is a thing, linking to the bigger thing.

[shellheadtmarc]

Shipping  info  meme.

Answer  the  following  for  your  muse(s)  so  people  know  how  shipping  works  on  your  blog.

WHAT  IS  YOUR  OTP  FOR  YOUR  CHARACTER ? oh boy uh.  i don't have like a blanket otp necessarily, unless you count like...pepperony, i guess, and 616 and aa stony.  those two i'm weak af for i'll pretty much buckle early on even when i say i'm not gonna do the thing.

WHAT  ARE  YOU  WILLING  TO  WRITE  WHEN  IT  COMES  TO  SHIPPING ? i'm more fond of soft ships for tony.  like he's gotten enough hell in canon, especially 616?  where he's gone through toxic relationship after toxic relationship, be it romantically or with friends.  he's got a warped view of himself in relation to other people, because other people tend to use him for influence or protection or money.  so.  soft things, things where tony actually feels loved and secure in a relationship.  a little angst is good now and then but honestly i'm Tired of having him feel like he's being jerked around, you know?  let him be loved and soft and happy.

HOW  LARGE  DOES  AN  AGE  GAP  HAVE  TO  BE  TO  MAKE  IT  UNCOMFORTABLE ? usually i'm not really here for anything with a partner for tony under the age of 25.  that's really a pretty large gap - mcu or 616 - and maturity is a must because he's typically lacking.  i have one (1) ship that breaks that, where said partner is 22, and in that case he's 1000x more mature, practical, and level-headed than tony is, so it's a special scenario that couldn't be repeated with anyone else unless there were very specific circumstances that happened in that ship itself.

ARE  YOU  SELECTIVE  WHEN  SHIPPING ? i'm pretty selective, yeah.  i'm not really keen on being forced?  into a ship i nor tony wants?  it's happened before so it makes me a little gunshy when certain red flags pop up (goal post moving when i say no to something or say something won't work because of how it would pull tony ooc, etc).  i require some chemistry.  which isn't to say i'm not all for throwing our idiots together to see if they have a spark, that's totally cool, but that spark has to be there for it to be a ship.

HOW  FAR  DO  STEAMY  MOMENTS  HAVE  TO  GO  BEFORE  THEY’RE  CONSIDERED  NSFW ? my take on it is:  if it doesn't show up on syndicated tv in the us, it goes under a cut.  language i tend to tag but not cut, but actual...you know.  sexy times do.  not that...i have ever written actual sexy times on this blog.  the fact that this hasn't happened yet here is a goddamn head-scratcher.

WHO  ARE  OTHER  CHARACTERS  YOU  SHIP  YOUR  CHARACTER  WITH  ? uh...it all depends on chemistry of portrayals but.  i can be down for a few ships with the right combination, i guess.  ironstrange is one.  frostiron is another.  what is the ship name for it, y'all got too many of them, uh...tony/thor?  ironthunder?  if that's not the name it fucking should be.  i can get behind tony/jen in 616, and tony/janet.  616 pepperony is the ship never meant to be but i still pine for it.  ironhusbands is a good one, uh...i can be here for science boyfriends.  if you squint hard at some of the early and newer iron man runs you can see hints of doomtony.  there are a lot i could actually see happen with the right combination of mun and muse.

and as for ships going right now, i've got a small but tasteful selection of canon character ships, ships with crosscanon stuff, and some oc ships.

DOES  ONE  HAVE  TO  ASK  TO  SHIP  WITH  YOU ?   discussion is good!  i prefer that.  i want to see if there's anything there before jumping into it completely.  all you gotta do is hop into these dms and be like "hey i wanna shove these nerds' faces together" and we'll see where it goes.

HOW  OFTEN  DO  YOU  LIKE  TO  SHIP ? it's not my main priority.  full disclosure, when i say ship, from my rp background (livejournal and dreamwidth) i mean a romantic ship.  those aren't the most important things in the world for me.  like i'm here for them, i love them, but it's not the biggest thing ever.  so that's what i mean when i say ship.

otherwise stuff falls under the blanket of the term cr (character relationships), which could be anything from found family, real family, to frenemies and straight up archnemeses with no romantic connotation.

the more you know.

ARE  YOU  SHIP  OBSESSED  OR  SHIP  MORE  -  OR  -  LESS ? less, i'd say.  i like a wide variety of different kinds of relationships.

ARE  YOU  MULTI-SHIP ? always and forever.  i'm up for possible polyships, too.

WHAT  IS  /  ARE  YOUR  FAVOURITE  SHIPS  IN  YOUR  FANDOM(S) ? outside of with tony?  carolrhodey is a big one, they're fucking adorable.  reedsue.  ben and alicia.  doomreed.  pete and mj.  gwen and mj.  gwen and pete.  pete and harry.  i...i have a lot we'd be here all day if i tried to list them all.

HOW  DOES  ONE  SHIP  WITH  YOU ?   hop into the ims, shoot me a message on discord, like a ship call, whatever, and tell me you wanna lock our idiots in a closet together.  that's the easiest way.

TAGGED  BY :  stole it TAGGING :  steal it

[thehollowprince]

I've been debating on whether or not to make this post for a couple of weeks now, but thankfully, earlier this morning, someone ctosstagging finally pushed me over the edge and I'll address the issue.

That crosstagging demon is none other than @gay-buchanan-barnes. This little hobgoblin came into the anti tony tag for no other reason than to start drama, because by their own admission, they "enjoy being a troll", which works out for the best because they're the one that gave me the motivation to do this. So here's to you, you obnoxious little shit, I couldn’t have done it without you!

Well, I could have, but it’s more fun this way.

Recently, I’ve seen a big trend sweeping through Tumblr about how T*ny St*rk is bisexual, or, as our friend above said, pansexual.  I’m here to discuss said issue, and explain how T*ny being either of those things is offensive, and why so many of us are against it.  In this essay I will...

...

Yes, there is an actual essay.

For starters, I would like to point out something that isn’t talked about much on this website, particularly in the whole pro t*ny/anti t*ny debates, and that is that MCU T*ny is different than comic T*ny, of which there are many, many versions.  For this, I’ll be discussing MCU T*ny and 616 (mainstream marvel) T*ny.  Keep in mind, before we delve too deeply in this, that I don’t read the Iron Man comics, so when I discuss that, it’ll be based off of his appearances in other comics that I’ve read and the quick Google Search I just did.

Now let’s just get into the meat of this.

T*ny St*rk is not, in any way, any kind of good representation for bisexual/pansexual persons.  Now, I am a gay man, so please take what I’m about to say with a grain of salt, but I stand by that opinion.  One of the biggest issues that bisexual and pansexual persons face, aside from justifying their own sexualities (that’s a separate post in and of itself) is the harmful stereotype that they’re just greedy and that they’re playing both sides, which is where my distaste for people claiming T*ny is good bi rep comes in.

Anyone who knows me or has been on my blog, know that I try to promote bisexuality and asexuality awareness.  In regards to LGBT issues, that’s the hill I’ll chose to die on, if I have to.

Apparently, in a recent comic, T*ny takes himself off the market and announces that he’s no longer single, deleting his dating profile with a “sorry ladies and gents” so that he can date.... I believe it’s Janet van Dyne, but I could be wrong.

Well, that right there, the “ladies and gents” thing is just a giant spotlight in the sky signalling that T*ny is bixesual and blah blah blah.

Very quickly, as I said above, I don’t read the Iron Man comics, but I know that he’s been around for 55 years, and I understand that he’s just now getting a new series after he died originally (it’s so hard to keep up with Marvel’s timelines anymore), but one thing I do know is that T*ny never had a “permanent” love interest the way the other heroes did.  Like, I don’t read much outside of the X-Men comics, but I know that Betty Ross was Bruce Banner’s girl, and that Sharon Carter was in a relationship with Steve Rogers, Thor and Jane, etc.  Those are all iconic relationships from the comics that transitioned over to the MCU, but I don’t recall one for T*ny.  If it is Pepper like in the movies, that’s a whole “yikes” situation for me, but it’s not something I recall.

He is, as he referred to himself in The Avengers (2012), a playboy.  He sleeps around.  His promiscuity is one of his defining character traits, so much so that when I think of T*ny, one of the first things that pops into my head is “manslut”, which, no slut shaming because I believe in sexual liberation, but in regards to him being bisexual, it’s harmful.  Bisexual persons fight over and over, with both heterosexuals, and those in the Lesbian and Gay communities, trying to validate their sexuality and make it abundantly clear that they’re not trying to date/fuck more than one person at a time.  That’s not what bisexual means.

By claiming T*ny as positive bisexual representation, you’re just reinforcing that stereotype, and more often than not, it’s so that you can claim your headcanons and fanfictions regarding T*ny fucking half of the male Avengers as canon, because it gets your rocks off.

And when called out on this bullshit, I’ve seen plenty of people pull out the “representation” card.  I’m here to tell you all that there are actual, canonically bisexual characters in the Marvel Comics.  If you’d like to inspect them, or know who they are so that you can look them up, here is a list of them.  Here is a list of the few pansexual characters, too.

As you can see, there are actual characters that identify as bisexual and pansexual in the Marvel universe without you having to cram your headcanons down, usually for no other reason that (aside from it turns you on) than to claim that he’s oppressed in some way, or that he represents an oppressed minority in some way.  I ranted about this the other day.

All of this brings me to MCU T*ny, who, as I said before but will repeat again, is not comic T*ny.  One may be based on the other, but they are two separate entities.  Even if - if - T*ny St*rk was canonically bisexual (which he’s not) in the comics, that doesn’t mean he would be in the MCU.  We’ve had several things about characters from the comics either erased or altered altogether for the movies, because what is good in comic form doesn’t always translate well to film. That being said, T*ny still refers to himself as a playboy, even after he’s in a relationship with Pepper, which is really telling about him as a character. Keep in mind, that I’m just putting this in here as a What If scenario, because unless Marvel confirms or denies that T*ny is bisexual, he’s strictly a straight.  

Before anyone jumps down my throat about how “straight isn’t the default” keep in mind, that T*ny has only been shown in relationships (sexual or otherwise) with women, and while it isn’t nice to assume that he couldn’t be anything other than straight, keep in mind that there aren’t a lot of bisexual characters in comics.  They don’t need to rely on innuendo and subtle references, they need direct statements.  

To quote one Eleanor Shellstrop, “It’s 2018.  It’s like, get over yourselves already.”

At the end of the day, T*ny St*rk is not bisexual, or pansexual, and if you don’t understand how promoting him as such is harmful to the actual bisexual and pansexual communities and if you don’t understand that, than I can’t help you.

Granted, there is nothing to stop you from promoting this, which you’re fully entitled to do, even if it is a bit disturbing, but maybe, don’t be like the person that caused this entire rant and don’t crosstag because you wanna start trouble.

[brw]

Do you have any recommendations for someone who wants to read more of the Vision?

OOOOO YEAH!

avengers origins: the vision is a really beautifully drawn retelling of vision's origin!

avengers icons: the vision is a solo story centered around vision's past as the human torch, it's quite interesting and i personally really enjoyed it! it's sometimes titled the vision: yesterday and tomorrow. weirdly enough geoff johns, the guy who wrote hank shrinking inside of janet's vagina wrote it.

marvel fanfare vol 1 #32 B story is a story where vision tries to uncover the murder of a busker along with ben urich. it's short but very sweet and i think it's a good story to read with vision!

marvel fanfare vol 1 #14 A story has vision go head to head with the fantastic four after being led to believe that they kidnapped wanda. it's very intense and i personally really enjoyed vision's display of power & protective instinct!

vision & the scarlet witch just generally is good for vision, but in particular i'd suggest vol 1, #3, which is centered on vision and simon after vision gets injuried in issue 2.

avengers vol 1 #253 - #254 has vision get taken control of and subsequently take over the world. it's a weird story but it's enjoyable enough! vision makes a very polite dictator ddvhfvh

ultimate vision & ultimate comics: cataclysm 000.1 is 1610 vision's storyline, and despite the differences between them and 616 vision i actually really like this story, definitely my favourite to come out of the ultimates verse! vision's final speech to sam wilson genuinely makes me tear up a little :')

avengers a.i. is a good one as always :0

avengers vol 1 #332 - #333. vision isn't the main character but they team up with sandman to take down doctor doom and YES it is exactly as batshit as it sounds.

all new all different avengers is a favourite of mine, vision tries to murder an infant at one point it's weird but rlly good i like the line-up

avengers vol 7 is the following series that comes out of all new all different and it has the same lineup, the art is GORGEOUS & it's a really fun storyline, i definitely recommend that too!

and finally the 1994 vision series! it's uh weird as hell but it's mostly enjoyable, ultron calls himself vision's daddy which reads weird but definitely should be read. got that good old 90s comic weirdness cdhdchdfj

there's loads more but these are some of my favourites! hope this helps!!

[fyeahfantasticfour]

I love the rare times Sue and Storm team-up. What team-ups would you like to see now that the team are back?

Val and Riri, Lunella, Viv, Nadia...all of the girl geniuses just need to be BFFs. Plus, I feel that they all need friends they can talk to.

Sue and any of the younger female superheroes who have emerged since she’s been gone -- Riri, Viv, Nadia, Kamala, Lunella, etc. Sue’s been a mentor for younger female superheroes before (Jean Grey, Laura Kinney, and Anya Corazon spring to mind) and I really would like to see more of her acting in that capacity. She is the most experienced female superhero in Marvel, after all, and Marvel’s First Lady. I’m sure they must look up to her.

Reed and Lunella. Lunella is in a lot of ways Reed’s legacy character -- she’s the one who took the title of Smartest There Ever Was from him, so I think they really need to meet. Plus, Lunella’s been hoping to find him so she’ll have someone to talk to who gets what it is to be her, and I just think they’d really get along. She’s been looking for a mentor and Reed would be perfect in that capacity. Besides, an older autistic-coded superhero mentoring a younger one would be very cool.

Reed, Ben, and Kamala -- Reed and Kamala have very similar powers, and we know that Kamala’s a huge fan of Ben’s. Besides, in 616, the FF are the top superhero team around. The first, the most beloved. I’m sure that Kamala must just be a fan in general of the FF. 

Reed and T’Challa. They were mystically and permanently married linked during Hickman’s run, so they need to reconnect. They also just adore each other, so I’m sure T’Challa’s very happy to see Reed safe and sound and back home. Maybe they can go on another joint camping trip together (they canonically spend their vacations together and go on double dates).

I’d love to see Reed and Sue team up with Medusa and Black Bolt. They are all extremely close friends, and I’m sure Medusa and Black Bolt will be overjoyed that Reed and Sue are still alive (...or vice versa).

Reed and Tony. They’re BFFs and they remember a timeline where they were actual college roomies, so I’d love to see them get together and science. Or just talk about their feelings about being dead but not for an entire issue. I’d be down for that. Slott is writing both Tony’s book and Reed’s, so I suspect there may be crossovers.

Sue and Jen Walters. They actually haven’t ever been that close -- Jen’s interacted more with Ben, really, than anyone else on the FF, but I’d love it if Sue and Jen got to be close friends.

Sue and Janet Van Dyne. Now they are very good friends, and I would love to see them catch up.

Sue and Laura Kinney -- they met, they’re friends, Laura babysat Val and Franklin once, and it was adorable. Maybe Sue and Val could team up with Laura and Gabby.

Sue and young Jean Grey (she’s still alive/around, no?) -- Sue mentored young Jean Grey back when she was just starting out, so I’m assuming she’d want to turn to Sue for guidance and advice.

Peter Parker and Reed. Peter admires Reed a lot (as a teenager he even had posters of him up on his wall), and they’ve generally been pretty close, so I’m sure that Peter will be very happy that Reed’s back.

But anyway, there are a lot of heroes, new and old, that I’d like to see the FF interact with!