#also 'parker' 'do we need more crime?' 'we need ALL the crime' harry saying we need ALL the crime was so funny

[androgymagnus]

i think i said this when the episode first came out, but. that while there are many, many things about the work study job i don't care for, i will never stop cackling at the secret society of janitors/security guards/groundskeepers/etc. beautiful

[look-how-they-massacred-them]

Preliminary Poll

Everyone

Submission reason:

Original Leverage had excellent character, story, found family, etc. 10/10 all around. In the reboot, the stories are less interesting (several of the cons feel like they could be done with half the cast, like a lot of them just aren't doing anything a lot of the time and it feels overcrowded) and the characters all feel a lot flatter? For example: Eliot. The most haunting scene for his character in the original is when the rest of the team learns he used to do work for Damien Moreau, the super evil guy they're currently trying to take down. We get this interaction: Eliot: The worst things I ever did, I did while working for Damien Moreau. Parker: What did you do? Eliot: Don't ask me that Parker. Because if you ask me, I'm going to tell you. So don't ask me. We never find out what he did. There is a strong implication it involved killing innocent children, the families of targets he was hired to take out. There may have been more. We don't know, and that's what makes it such a chilling moment for his character- whatever it was it was bad, so bad that it doesn't need specifics. In Leverage: Redemption, we get a scene where Eliot is captured by evil security company lady (I don't remember exactly who she was, but one of the main bad guys). She injects him with a drug that is described as making it easier to bring up traumatic memories somehow? and triggers a traumatic memory by saying "Operation Kansas". We then see footage of Generic War Flashbacks (with no detail as to what that actually was or any stake we should have in it, we're just told "it's traumatic"). He also starts branching out a lot more from the team looking for romance (and struggling with it) which is a lot more depressing than where he was at in the original (the team is his family). Granted this probably has something to do with Hardison's actor not being available and not wanting to focus too much on Eliot and Parker's relationship lest that read as cucking the black man, but it does weaken the found family of the original (it has a bit of the vibe of "we're growing up and growing apart" when the original was "broken people finding strength and community in each other"). They also don't seem to know what to do with Sophie exactly- in the original, she was the heart of the team. There's a line one of the others has about how they trust Nate to come up with the plan, but they trust Sophie to make sure they're all okay. For a lot of the show, this is more focused on Nate than the others because he's the most off-the-rails, so with his character gone there's a gap that isn't really adequately filled.

The support relationship she had with the trio is also weakened because in the time since the first show they've all become even more competent and successful without her, so her taking on a teaching role with them feels weird (they mostly do this with Parker, which has the awful effect of making her seem less competent than she did in the original). Her relationship with Harry works the best in the new show, but since Harry's problem is entirely born of lack of experience/competence with this sort of crime, she can't really play off him in the same way as the others- it's all very teacher-student. It was also established in the original that she's a grifter, and she's not actually interested in running a team so making her character the leader after she's been out of the game for years feels out of place. And Parker. Beloved Parker. She's Word of God canonically autistic, and it was done SO WELL in the first series, which makes the massacre in Redemption so much sadder. Parker's arc in the original series involved her learning to open herself up to the world after closing off so much of who she could care about due to repeated trauma throughout her life. She shows so much growth throughout the series, and ends up implied to be the leader of the team after Nate and Sophie leave. She's weird and kooky but this isn't a flaw and it doesn't detract from her competence as a thief and teammate. And while she does struggle with certain things (grifting especially because of the social component) she does learn and improve with the help of the team. And then in Redemption, there's just. an enormous backslide. She's been at least co-leading teams around the world with Eliot and Hardison for years, but when Sophie comes back into the picture she gets implicitly demoted (it's not emphasized, but Sophie being promoted to solo leader implies it) and within the team dynamic, she is paralleled in skill level to Breanna, Hardison's 20-something sister who just joined the team (for comparison, Parker should be mid-30s at this point and has been doing this sort of crime for over a decade).

Still, Parker is put in the same category as Breanna; that is "good at her specialty, trying to be better, still has a lot to learn". She maintains her character growth from the original in regards to opening up and caring about others, but her skills and competence feel a lot lesser- despite the fact that years have passed offscreen where presumably she'd continue to learn. Ultimately she comes across as much more childish and immature which really does not sit right with the wonderful autistic representation she was in the original. Harry and Breanna I have less to say about because they are new for the reboot, but I think they also could be done a lot better. Harry's entire thing is that he used to be exactly the type of Evil Guy the team would take down but he's had a change of heart and wants to fight for what's right. And like, he did do a lot of evil fucked up shit! But the extent to which the other characters will like. Rub his face in it? Feels excessive.

Maybe this is just me having a lot of thoughts on "how to effectively de-radicalize someone" but like. For example, there's a point where they're deciding how to run a con and he offers some information as to how these guys work (I don't remember specifics unfortunately) and the rest of the team is like "Oh. And how do YOU know that? Right, because you were EVIL. 😒" when like??? He was literally already acknowledging that? And constantly shaming someone for their past when they are actively trying to improve is bad practice. As for Breanna... I want to like her. I do. And there are a lot of good things about her character. But they also kind of make her a Millennial Mouthpiece at times, where like she just expresses the opinions that Kids These Days and Our Generation have without any weight behind them. There's an episode about Fake Magic the Gathering where she gives a big speech about kids who didn't feel like they fit in, but there's nothing personal about it, so it ends up feeling empty. Character building in the original was heavily focused on specific personal details and experience, and she doesn't really get much of that which takes away a lot of potential depth. Also I would be remiss if I did not highlight this comparison because it's a big part of why I had to stop watching the reboot: In original Leverage, there is a scene where the con has spiraled out of control, and Hardison and the mark were caught on a US army base with a camera. The team is trying to figure out how to get them out without blowing the con and Hardison says "Damn the con! I am a black man caught on an Army base with a video camera! I am going to jail forever!" They manage to get him out safely, having him stall so they can break him out without blowing their cover. But that one line highlights the fact that his race does put him in more danger than the others in that scenario, and the show knows it. Even if it doesn't play out, the awareness is there. This is one of many cases in which this is emphasized. Redemption has an episode, The Great Train Job, where the mark is the head of a group of white nationalists. Breanna is one of the teammates on the train, and there's a point where she says she's going to try something and Eliot reminds her to be careful because she's in more danger than the rest of them. This is the sum total of acknowledgement of that danger, aside from some quippy lines about the evils of white supremacists. A few key things: Also in this episode, while Sophie is grifting the mark, he comes onto her very strongly in a private train car, getting way too close to Actual Sexual Assault for comfort, in a scene that was genuinely unpleasant to watch. In the original, while the stakes were often high, there was never the fear of "they're really not going to make it" or even "they're going to experience something genuinely horrible" (beyond like, "getting shot" level of injury). This situation for Sophie was new and unexpected, and because of that I no longer trusted the show not to cross another line. And because they highlighted the racism present on the train (by having the white man remind the black woman about it, which isn't inherently bad but I don't love it), I spent the entire episode on edge waiting for something bad to happen to Breanna. Nothing did, but fundamentally I did not trust that. The quote from Hardison, among other scenes, did make me feel safe in the understanding that the writers knew the gravity of the situation and would tread carefully. But the casualness of the line with Breanna, coupled with Sophie's awful scene in the same episode did the opposite. This is less of a character complaint and more of a structural one, but still.

Propaganda:

A lot of my gripes with Redemption are about the show as a whole, so idk how well this fits this poll, but the characters are a huge part of that because it's such a character driven show. Anyways I'm genuinely curious to see how this does because I am so strongly pro-original and so strongly anti-reboot, but I have the impression that a lot of people really like the reboot.

[zero-buds]

I swore i was gonna make Parker meta but I couldn't sleep because I'm trying to wrap my head around Our Mr. Wilson and his symbolism to the Yes Man Trope.

Not sure if that's the correct term, but I like it so I'm keeping it.

Note: I'm still on episode 13 so I haven't watched the last four episodes yet, but I've read the wiki so I have a vague idea of what happens. But my meta will be mainly for episodes 1-12.

What's the Yes Man Trope you ask? It's a trope used mainly for support characters who say yes to pretty much everything. If the main character says to jump off the bridge, they'll jump no questions asked. If they are asked to borrow money, they give without really any thought behind it, is instructed to choke someone out *coughs*, they throw their whole weight into it. Etc. Etc.

It's kind of like the people pleaser but they're not doing it as a measure of their self-worth, it's more like, they just... don't have the capacity to say no? Like, they fundamentally have no thoughts running in their heads so they need someone to give them direction?

And there's plenty of examples of this happening in Leverage: Redemption through the support villains. Some of them are directionless with good intentions, and some have hero worship syndrome, while others? Others are just a little too trusting or naive. I'll come back to this at a later point.

Harry Wilson at the beginning of Redemption is a newcomer with absolutely zero criminal skill. He is introduced as some hot shot corporate lawyer first, and a novice thief second. As the hot shot corporate lawyer, we learned that he did some really shitty things without thinking about it. Apathetic and unfazed is what some interpretations have called Wilson's sentiments to his job.

And like, normally, when someone is the Yes Man and realize that what they're doing is shitty, it's because deep down all they wanted to do was be accepted into a group. So they do all these things that people tell them to do without any thoughts to it.

Harry's a little different. He's not just the Yes Man. He's literally the one who told his firm to do all those shitty things in the first place! Why? To be accepted into the fold? He was a good lawyer, he could have been a good person too in the firm. It's implied that the firm didn't take those vicious cases until Harry came along. Now this could be a form of manipulation of memory by the firm as a tactic, but maybe there's some truth in there too.

The support villains have different reasons for being the Yes Man. Some of them had no choice while others simply didn't have a spine to leave. Juxtaposed to those people is Harry who genuinely has no problems committing crimes as long as it helps his guilty conscience. He's slick, but it's almost as if his personality is a sponge. He absorbs charm and exudes confidence but has almost no thoughts or opinions that are his own. Most of the time, he's just spitting facts or relaying information that he reads from time to time or parrots what other people tell him.

This is an interesting way to bring Mr. Wilson into the fold of Leverage: Redemption and as the audience's muse when we get confused. Except, I don't know about you, but when Mr. Wilson does break the mold and acts impulsively, he's always apologetic after but never remorseful about it. Almost sociopathic in a way, but with golden retriever vibes. Kind of why it's hard to stay mad at him for very long.

When the others do break the mold, they regret their past actions and try to do better in a similar way in which Harry has been trying to rectify his.

One of the most redeeming qualities that Harry has as the Yes Man Trope personified is his heart. It's in the right place and is kind to the people around him, but often misguided. So, there's not a lot for us to be mad at.

Also, I suspect he has either undiagnosed bipolar disorder or... like, he's on the spectrum. I don't have any evidence on this, just an interpretation.

[sergeant-angels-trashcan]

things that absolutely will not happen in the second half of leverage: redemption

JIM S.T.E.R.L.I.N.G.

Jim is actually Harry’s ex

we meet Nana and she is a very teeny tiny Filipina or Indigenous lady. or an older trans Latina. but she’s like three feet shorter than Hardison and he’s totally cowed by her

the gang saves a synagogue because Jewish!Hardison my beloved

more Hardison

Maggie shows up. She and Sophie pretend to be married for a con.

we meet Harry’s daughter. She and Breanna are TOTALLY in love with each other. Olivia shows up. wlw ot3

Cha0s comes back, and he’s still a dick but he also does good guy stuff now. He and Mr. Quinn are NOT married thank you very much

Harry goes on a date with Maggie totally unaware of who she is

Harry somehow winds up overly involved in ot3 shenanigans and is like???am I married??? to my team???

he’s ok with it he just needs to know for anniversary purposes

Eliot and Parker cuddling in vents

Old Nate is mentioned. Old Sophie takes his place. Harry is just like. wut.

more Parker/Hardison arguments that include Eliot even though he specifically says “don’t bring me into this!!” MARRIED.

any of the kids the og team saved showing up as hackers/pseudo criminals

OR those kids being part of Leverage International teams. Like Olivia, the girl from the Beantown Bailout, the heart transplant kid, etc etc

the Librarians showing up for literally any reason in any capacity

Harry tries to do a “let’s go steal a...” and gets constructive criticism about it

Breanna and Harry bonding

Sophie’s acting students!!!!

a rich guy hoarding money and sending shit into space gets taken down by the team

more food

Breanna dressing like an entire baby lesbian. i want more of it.

Eliot and Parker being missing from a job because they’re visiting Hardison

more of Hardison’s siblings

the Korean reboot crew

Parker shoving Harry off of something

HURLEY

PEGGY

AGENT MCSWEETEN. who knows Harry and hates him???

Archie!! he’s like Crime Grandpa to all of Leverage International

that cool mob guy from the Real Fake Car Job. I liked him. What’s he up to?

Shelly, from the boy’s night out. he needs to be back for a hot second and have some brother in law vibes with Parker and Hardison

[evilwickedme]

ok so to sum up my feelings for leverage: redemption, season 1(a): (long post warning, there’s a tl;dr at the end)

I knew that Hardison wouldn’t be in most of the season due to Aldis Hodge being a busy bee nowadays, but I didn’t realize that meant he’d only be around for the first two episodes. He was sorely missed, not only because of my attachment to him, but also because he’s usually the grounding factor in the group dynamic, and his role as info guy and tech guy was split evenly between two characters who had their own issues.

That said, Hardison is absolutely a highlight of the two episodes he’s in. his speech about redemption was everything I could’ve hoped for (plus, more evidence for the Jewish!Hardison pile...). I wish we’d gotten to see more of his dynamic with Breanna because what we saw was funny and sweet and we don’t generally get to see Hardison taking care of somebody who so desperately needs taking care of. I hope that Aldis Hodge is around for more episodes in 1(b), because what we’re left with feels a little hollow.

Sticking to original leverage characters for now, for the most part the leverage crew still felt true to the original series as characters, even if the show itself was a little bit confused at times. The actors understand their characters and embody them so well that I think one could give them the trashiest script ever and they’d still sell it. Sophie is a particular focus in 1(a) because of Nate’s death, and she’s particularly well written as a result.

That said, I’m super bitter that we saw little to no mastermind!Parker. Parker’s character being given the mastermind role was a big deal and it feels like they’re walking it back because they feel uncomfortable with it. It is eventually given an in-text excuse, but literally in the last episode, and it was not a particularly convincing reason, and in fact contradicted moments from previous episodes (Sophie leaving for a client meeting and ignoring Parker in ep3 comes to mind). It’s frustrating, it makes the end of the original leverage feel pointless, and letting Parker make a decision once in a while is not the same thing at all. The original series repeatedly showed us that while everyone in the team had their strengths, Parker works problems and solves them in unique, interesting ways, and other characters’ days in the limelight tended to be comedic or even failures. It’s a broken promise, and a pretty major broken promise at that.

On a more positive note, Parker’s dynamic with literally everyone was fantastic. She’s possibly the best written character this season. They’ve taken the autism out of the subtext and into the text (although obviously still undiagnosed), and given her coping mechanisms that were taken seriously in the text even when they were played for laughs, which I appreciated. Her attempts to mentor Breanna were sweet, her friendship with Sophie was electric and at times (CRIMES) hilarious, and as usual, she has a fantastic dynamic with Eliot that makes my heart burst. If you don’t think they’re romantically involved, at least acknowledge there’s a life partnership here. They’ve spent the last decade together.

(We’ll get to Harry.)

Eliot isn’t given much arc-wise, which is frustrating since he’s my favorite. He’s being presented as the goal at the end of a redemption arc, ie to keep working at it every day until your soul heals or whatever, and it doesn’t reflect the message they’re trying to convey via Hardison’s speech and our two new characters. He’s got his moments, but I think they under utilized his potential.

Breanna!!! Breanna’s my new favorite, except for Eliot. She’s hilarious, she’s insecure, she’s nerdy and excited in a way that’s similar to Hardison but still distinct in its inherent teenage-girl-ness and I LOVE IT. Unlike the previous series, where Hardison’s “age of the geek” was often a joke played on Hardison, we’re at the point where Eliot and Parker are both right there with him, and so they accept and even appreciate Breanna’s nerdiness. Also, canon gay character? In YOUR Leverage? It’s more likely than you think.

(No, I never thought they’d make ot3 canon on screen. I hoped, but I didn’t think it would actually happen.)

I think Breanna’s the character that will be the most interesting to see grow. She’s got a lot of potential and a list of crimes a mile long (or more). I adore her with all my heart. I want to see her tiktok account.

Harry. Oh, Harry.

It took me a while, but I do like Harry. It took a while, because the narrative positioned him at the same level as Nate back in episode 1 of original Leverage. But in episode 1 we didn’t know the other characters. We had Nate as the POV character, and so we cared about him because we were seeing the world through his eyes. (This is TV Studies 101. I know this, because I took TV Studies 101 in 2019.) In Leverage: Redemption, we no longer have a POV character, for several reasons:

Nate, previously the POV character, is dead.

As it is, by mid-season 3 of leverage Nate was no longer a POV character. This is, coincidentally, the point where the leverage writers realized they had four other characters in the main cast they could do something with, and in-universe, Nate accepted that he was a thief, not a special Good Man.

Sophie is sort of a POV character for the first episode of the revival, but only for the first few minutes. Afterwards, the series settles into the groove of seasons 3-5, i.e., the entire crew is our POV. We know our crew, and we love them as is.

Narratively, however, Redemption insists on positing Harry as the POV character, because it is his redemption we are pursuing most vehemently. And I think they really relied on us already knowing the actor - I’ve never seen him in anything before, so to me he was a completely fresh face and they put almost no effort into selling him to me. Beyond being competent and consistently mildly baffled by the antics of the leverage crew, I honestly don’t know who this man is by the end of EIGHT episodes with him. I have a much better handle on Breanna by the end of 1(a), and I can tell you I knew all five of the original leverage crew better by the end of the first episode of the original series than I do Harry. What’s the name of his daughter, John Rogers. Is he still married. How old is the daughter. Why is none of this worth mentioning. Give him a sense of humor that isn’t reacting to other people’s shenanigans. I’m so frustrated. It’s bad writing.

I did manage to grow to like Harry by the end, but I’m pretty sure this is down to Noah Wyle’s charismatic portrayal of an under-developed character, at least partially. And I never stopped being frustrated at not knowing who this man is at all.

The two highlights of the season are undoubtedly episodes five and six. Episode five was the first time I felt like the episode was more than a collection of good moments between the main cast and mediocre moments between the main cast and also the main plot. The issues with pacing and tone that I suffered through for most of the season were mostly non-existent in ep5 and 6, and at least in episode 5 I attribute that to the pared down cast. They had time to focus not only on our actual characters - Sophie, Parker, Breanna - but also on the case. This is the only client from 1(a) I am going to remember next week without googling it first, mark my words.

Episode six worked for the exact opposite reason - it completely disregarded the client and plot and immersed itself in the characters. Breanna gets a moment to shine, but everybody else gets their bits and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the script that was most fun to write. The characters felt natural, real, and captured the found-family dynamic that’s been missing all season for the first time.

While episode 2 is the weakest episode, I don’t actually have much to say about it. I am disappointed in episode 8. For a mid-season finale, I really expected them to do something. Instead, it was an episode about Nate Ford that copped out of being about Nate Ford (both with fake-Nate and with the new version of him being relayed to us). I would have told the writers to give that energy back to episode 1 and write an episode that’s about anybody who isn’t Harry, oh my God. I know I said I grew to like him but so many episodes were about Harry. He’s the newbie! Why didn’t Hardison get an episode that was actually about him, considering he was only around for two episodes? Why does Eliot have to be the butt of the joke when the theme of the series should directly tie back to him in a much more meaningful way? The last episode parodies their own tagline by saying Eliot isn’t just a hitter, but it deftly avoids noticing that they’ve turned him into nothing more than very muscly comic relief, including in that very episode!

Also, I hated the Marshal. Eliot actively looked uncomfortable around her.

tl;dr

The season took a while, that’s definitely true. But it did find its footing eventually, and by the halfway mark of 1(a) it finally felt cohesive again. The characters were played fantastically even when they weren’t well-written, and if nothing else, the humor landed every time. It still has its kinks and problems to work out, but if you look at it as a brand new show rather than a continuation of one that went off the air over eight years ago, it’s actually doing rather well. I’m choosing to judge it in both lights - according to its own standards, it establishes its identity in episode five; according to Leverage standards, it establishes its connection to its roots in episode six. Either way, I thoroughly enjoyed 1(a), and continue to have high hopes for 1(b).

fic writing will commence in three, two, one...

[verfound]

So How About that Redemption 👀

We're five eps in. Phone died at some point, but man oh man can we just *SCREAMING*

(Long post got Long oops 😂)

How they're handling Nate. I absolutely adore that they haven't just "oh he's dead" and that's that - I am ashamed I ever doubted the writers. Of course they wouldn't do him or the fans dirty like that like.

And just shout out to the writers/team in general. This is how you do a reboot. You continue to build what was already established and loved - and they are doing it BEAUTIFULLY. All the little nods to the original show. The Dammit Hardisons, the Let's Go Steals, the Very Distinctive Xs, No Stabbing Wednesdays, "One More Job", "NO PLAN M!", Mini Lucilles in every food truck, even the friggin music...I knew this was gonna hit in all the best ways but damn it's hitting in all the best ways.

And that they use Harry to pull new fans in? I was worried, I'll admit, about how they would play Harry. I was terrified he was going to be "New Nate". And again I don't know why I was (no I know why I let Other Shows jade me), because they've been doing a wonderful job with him so far. I love how he's this new, fresh set of eyes into a crew with such a long history. It kinda makes me think of when I started watching Doctor Who in high school: my aunt had been watching since she was in high school, so she knew the lore/history and could recognize all the nods that were brand new to me while still enjoying the New Fan getting to enjoy it. And that's what Harry feels like: they have the inside jokes he's not afraid to call them out on, and it's lovely.

Really the only thing I don't like about Harry so far (and I could be misreading it here, and we still have three eps) is...is anyone else feeling like they might be feeling the waters with Sophie/Harry? Maybe that's just lingering Paranoia. I don't know - I'm still not over Nate. ("I've had many marriages, but only one husband." 😭)

Actually on that note SOPHIE FUCKING DEVEREAUX LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. 😭😭😭 I love that the first shot is her eyes. I love how you can still see her actively grieving, I love how we're seeing her come back alive, I love that the kids know exactly what Mom needs - "I'm retired" NO YOU ARE NOT. Sophie stepping on that stage and immediately falling into Bad Actress mode. 😂 "We can't have civilians here when we're doing crime!"

BREANNA. CHAOTIC BABY SISTER FOR THE WIN. Just...I am in love with this little baby Hardison. 😂 (Hardison calling Nana, Hardison's "There are twelve teams who'd say otherwise" to Parker's "I'm not a mom" - AND LEVERAGE INTERNATIONAL IT'S REAL IT'S REAL IT'S REAL).

"I'm Batman Parker." Just EVERYTHING with Parker. She's still the quirky little freak we loved but she's grown. The vents. "I teach every child I meet crime." Telling Sophie she's in therapy then continuing to show that by acting out hand puppets an ep or two later. Her grifting - the Southern Belle. Flow charts for the "weird squishy human things." (..."I love how you say "human brain" like you don't have one.") Pretzel Sidebars. Nate would be so proud of you, baby girl. 😭

"HE'S HIS FATHER'S SON."

The OT3 still feeling as natural and real as ever. The little nods at things they've picked up from each other - "Even numbers only - I hate that I know that!" 12 years on and they're still together. "Til my dying day." 😭🖤

Halloween Ep Halloween Ep Halloween Ep

Sorry I'm not over it HALLOWEEN EP IN NOLA WITH GHOSTS

Hardison hacking history via 3D printing these days 👀

I will admit: I'm glad they kept the theme song, but I miss the opening shpeel. And I'm a little disappointed that when Breanna asked Sophie "What, so we're the bad guys?" she didn't say "Sometimes bad guys make the best good guys."

Also all those photos/paintings you have hanging in the new HQ and I haven't spotted Old Nate yet. Three eps left I'm still hoping he pops up. It doesn't feel like HQ without Old Nate. (...even better: Actual Old Nate can we get one photo please.)

Also I haven't heard anything on this but I keep hoping Sterling and Agents Taggert & McSweeten show up. Even if they don't, you can't take away the mental image of Sterling at Nate's grave. That lives rent-free in my head forever now. Probably dumped an entire bottle of whiskey on him. 🖤

Watching these eps has felt like coming home. I have missed this crew. I have missed this show. I have missed these stories. Thank you for giving us one more job. I'm so glad the job isn't done. 🖤🖤🖤

[babybatscreationsv2]

SpiderVerse: Predators ch25

Marvel | Starker

Peter Parker is barely keeping it together. Dealing with Gwen Stacy's death, Harry Osborn going MIA, and MJ refusing to take his calls, has the guy feeling seriously run down. Now to top it off, his uncle Ben is facing serious prison time. Fortunately or unfortunately, New York's own Kingpin of Crime, Tony Stark, has offered him a deal to save his uncle. On a positive note, this Kingpin guy is kind of hot. Is it wrong to sleep with a murderous criminal? 

Rating: Explicit

Warnings under the cut

warnings: mentions of violence, mild degrading language

Peter was on edge. His every waking moment was like drowning in a pool of anxiety. Where was Murdock? Was Harry okay? Would Elsa betray them? And then there was Tony. Tony who could be so fragile when it came to their relationship. Peter didn't know much about his past, but he'd pick up on the abandonment issues. Tony didn't like it when it was away. But Peter had other things to worry about.

May was happy that he was home, though she seemed worried by the change. At least Peter could see that she was doing okay. She was clearly still in pain. Every time something reminded her of Ben she would sob and end up leaving the room to go cry. Sometimes, though, she laughed. The happy memories came almost as often as the reminders of loss. Peter wished he hadn't left. He should have been here with her suffering the same cycle of suffering and grief. He deserved it.

George Stacy had apparently been coming over once a week. He and May had their own sort of potluck night. They each prepared a dish and they ate together which was super awkward now that Peter was home.

Happy also went with May on her regular bingo night. Once a week, they went out for breakfast together. May's social life was far more impressive than his own. Too bad he had killed or driven off every friend he had. It just made him miss Tony more, but at the same time, Tony made him feel lonely. Tony added an extra element of secrecy to his life that took him from 'double-life' to 'triple-life'. Tony Stark was a villain in Spiderman's world. He wasn't much better in Peter Parker's. He wasn't sure who that made him when they were together. The Kingpin's pet? Spiderling? Whatever it was, it was a whole different mentality. Spiderman had a darkness that threatened to come out and kill, but Tony Stark called on a different darkness. One that he could say he liked even less. Yet, he'd gotten a taste for poison and it would kill him if he stopped now.

The only time Peter felt comfortable leaving May alone was when he knew she was with Happy. He didn't know the guy personally, but if he knew Tony, then he knew his life was on the line if he fucked up. Those are the moments that he stole away to soothe what anxiety he could. He went to visit Elsa.

It had been one week since Venom went into Harry's body. Whatever the creature was doing... well, it was doing something. Harry's skin was more normal and less lizard-y now. His legs were back to human proportions. There were a few patches of green skin left, but Peter had hope that a few more days should do it.

Elsa was a train-wreck. Her hair was tangled and stuffed into a bun on top of her head. She kept losing her glasses. Peter came in one day to find her stumbling into things. When he helped her find her glasses, she broke down crying. Apparently she hadn't needed them ever since she first bonded with Venom. The bruises on her shins from running into the coffee table were all reminders that it wasn't there looking out for her.

"It'll be over soon and you can have Venom back," Peter assured her. They sat together on the couch.

Elsa sniffled and nodded her head. "Just a little while longer. I know."

"Have they been able to communicate with you at all?"

Elsa nodded, then she laughed, the sound bursting out of her. "They said 'food'." Peter laughed, too. "I've been feeding them bits of chocolate. Not great sustenance for a human, but it's what Venom needs."

"You made a monster in a lab that only eats chocolate."

Elsa smiled fondly. "They're my monster."

Peter felt a prickling all the way down his spine. He went to the window and looked out. No sign of trouble. Then he heard screams and glass shattering.

"I gotta go."

"Take care, Spiderman."

Peter raced through the city. There was a pit in his stomach that only grew as he continued on. And then finally, he reached Stark Tower.

A crowd, no, an angry mob was gathered around the building. People threw rocks and bricks. Tower security held the doors, but Peter could see a paramedic kneeling over a woman on the floor. People were screaming, chanting. They said Stark had stolen from them, spread drugs through neighborhoods, killed their loved ones.

"What the hell is going on?"

A news van down on the ground was reporting on the scene. Spiderman swung down closer to listen in. The reporter posed in view of the fight to get through the doors. She spoke quickly into her microphone.

"Here at Stark Industries the crowd is growing increasingly violent as Tony Stark, CEO of Stark Industries, refuses to make an appearance. There has been no comment yet from anyone at SI and no information has come to light about the leak. Police are arriving now with a warrant for Mr. Stark's arrest, but will any of these outlandish claims prove true? The public seems to think so."

Peter swung around the block and climbed up to the top of the tower. The window into Tony's office opened at his touch and he slipped inside.

"Tony?" He wasn't in his office. Peter ran to the hidden apartment, but he wasn't there either. He dialed his cell phone and got no answer. The second time he tried the number had been disconnected.

Peter sat down on the bed. He put his head in his hands. He felt like he couldn't breathe. Everything felt so out of control. Tony was missing and in trouble. He didn't know where to find Murdock. He didn't know if Harry was going to be okay. And May, was May even safe?

Then he got a call over the Spiderman line.

"Spiderman?"

Peter lurched to his feet. "Tony? Are you okay? What's going on?"

"Fucking Felicia Hardy," he growled. "But don't worry about that, sweetheart. I wanted you to know that I'm safe. I need to lay low for a while."

"And then what?"

"We don't have any choice but to play it by ear. I have people working to make this all go away, but if it doesn't work out then I guess there will be no more Kingpin of New York."

"What does that mean?"

"It means throwing away everything I've built and finally retiring. Morocco seems nice."

"You can't leave."

"I might not have a choice." He paused. "Would you go with me, Peter?"

"I..." He stopped and thought. He would have to give it all up, too. Being Spiderman, trying to protect New York, trying to save people. Maybe he could be Spiderman in Morocco, but all of the work he had done would go waste when the villains took over. Maybe another hero would come to replace him. Maybe that would be for the best.

"It's okay. You can think about it. May could come too, you know. It might even be nice."

"I'll think about it. Stay safe."

"Don't worry about me, darling."

"Let me know of there's anything I can do."

"You're sweet, but I won't ask you to murder Felicia Hardy for me. Besides, I want the pleasure."

Peter let out a breath. "If I find her, I'm turning her in for art theft."

"Then it's a race to find her first. Good luck, dearest spiderling." Tony hung up the call.

Peter stood staring at his phone, unsure of what to do next. It didn't seem like there was anything he do to help Tony. He spent the rest of the day trying to get caught up on school, but it was almost impossible to concentrate. Then someone rang the doorbell.

Peter was up and running for the door in a flash. "I'll get it, May," he called.

"Thanks, Pete," she said from the couch. She was watching one of the many nearly identical crime dramas. He pulled the door open and was struck speechless.

Tony offered him a charming smile. "Peter, darling. I hope this isn't a bad time."

"I uh..." Peter blinked rapidly, processing what he was seeing. Tony Stark, his boyfriend, the Kingpin of New York, the wealthiest man on the Eastern Seaboard, was standing on the doorstep of the rickety little house his family only owned because his father's father's father bought after immigrating so many decades ago. The house could have fit in one of Tony's bathrooms which had less to do with the size of it and more because it was shit by comparison.

"Sorry, I didn't call. I had to disconnect everything I own including my car's GPS."

"Uh..." Peter continued to stare, but when Tony shifted anxiously he finally snapped out it, remembering the constant danger. "Come in."

He stepped aside and Tony entered. May looked over the back of the couch.

"Mr. Stark? It's good to see you again," she smiled, but her eyes cut to Peter. The 'what the fuck is going on' went unspoken. Especially since they had something of an unspoken agreement that May didn't trust Tony because Ben hadn't liked him and therefore only sort of approved and only then because Peter seemed happy.

"I'm sorry to bother you, Mrs. Parker. I needed a place to stay the night and Peter said it would be alright if I stayed here."

She looked at Tony then she looked at Peter. "Of course that's fine. Are you hungry? Can I get you anything?"

"No, thank you."

"Come on, Tony." Peter grabbed his hand and dragged the man upstairs but it was only once they were in his bedroom that he realized what a mistake that was. His walls were covered in posters for tech conventions, Stark Industries announcements, fan posters of other super heroes.

Tony smiled, looking around the room. "This is about what I imagined."

"Why are you here?"

"It's this or sleep in my car and I'd rather be here where I know you're safe."

"What's going on?"

Tony sighed. He sat down on Peter's bed and picked up a Rubik's cube from his nightstand. "Showed up at the safe house to find all of the windows broken and the police everywhere. Since there's a warrant and all, I thought I would avoid that mess."

"May is gonna lose her shit when she realizes you're wanted."

Tony shrugged. "She won't turn me in, though. You know she won't."

"No, but she won't be happy."

"Are you happy I'm here?" He looked at him with the saddest puppy dog eyes. Peter hadn't known he could make that face.

"I missed you."

Tony smiled and Peter couldn't help but smile back. He went to the bed and straddled Tony's lap, letting himself get drawn into a heated kiss.

Peter looked into his dark eyes. "How did all this happen?"

"Well you see," Tony began. "I emotionally blackmailed you and then-"

Peter rolled his eyes. "I meant your company being literally on fire."

"Felicia let the world know that maybe I'm involved with tax evasion, and corporate fraud, and also the drug trade. Everyone's a victim," he sighed.

"You do realize that a lot of people are dead because of you."

Tony shrugged. "A lot of people are employed because of me, too."

"That doesn't fix it."

"Some evils concern me more than others." He trailed his fingers down Peter's chest and set his hand down on his thigh. "I have other concerns at the moment." His fingers brushed over Peter's crotch, his cock instantly taking interest.

"Here?"

Tony smirked. "How many times have you laid in this bed jerking off while you looked at posters of me?"

Peter rolled his eyes. "Never. I never liked you that much."

Tony grinned. "Not even for an imagined hate fuck?"

"You think too much of yourself." Peter rolled his eyes, giving him a smile in return. Then he kissed those smirking lips. It felt like coming home. They stay tangled up and making out for a while. Then Peter pushed Tony back to lay in the bed. He stood up and went to lock the door.

He pulled his t-shirt over his head and slipped off his jeans. Tony watched him with hunger as he pulled off his underwear. He climbed back on top of him, kissing him, devouring each other's mouth.

Peter reached down and slowly pulled up Tony's shirt. He slipped down the bed and pressed kisses to his skin. He kissed the softening muscle of his abdomen and pressed his lips to the warm metal of the arch reactor then he kissed the hollow of his throat.

"My spider," Tony sighed. His hands rested on Peter's back. Peter sucked a bruise under his jaw. Tony hand slid up his back and grabbed a fist full of his hair. "My spider," he said again.

Peter licked his lips. He looked into those deep, dark, eyes and found hunger. "Show me," he challenged.

Tony stood, holding Peter in his arms. Then he threw him down on the bed. He pulled off his t-shirt and stood in only his jeans, scarred and strong chest so beautifully on display like a king or a god or Peter's own wet dream. Then he was on top of them, the both of them panting heavy. Peter gasped, whining quietly as Tony pressed kisses all over his body. He clamped a hand tight over his mouth to muffle the noises he made as Tony bit and sucked marks into his skin. On his thighs, his belly, his chest.

"Gotta keep quiet," Tony chuckled. "Your poor aunt will have a heart attack."

Peter grabbed him, pulling him up so their eyes were level. "Shut up and fuck me."

Tony grinned. "I think I've been a terrible influence on you." Peter reached up to the drawer beside his bed and offered Tony a bottle of lube. He took it with only the most devilish smile. He pressed a slick finger into Peter's hole, continuing on.

"You've become greedy, demanding," he pushed in a second finger. "Entitled even."

Peter's legs spread, trying to wrap around Tony's waist and pull him in.

"You're spoiled and rotten. Do you know that?" Tony teased.

"Tony," he panted as Tony fingered him. "Put your fucking dick in me," he demanded and the back of Tony's hand cracked against his face. Peter gasped, then moaned as pain exploded through his face.

Tony stared him down. "Is that what you need? Discipline?"

Peter shivered. His face was so dark, so vicious, like Peter was prey he couldn't wait to devour. "Please," he said.

Tony smirked. "If your aunt weren't home I'd put your right over my lap, sweetheart, until you're kicking and screaming. Give your bratty little ass a spanking."

"Please," Peter moaned.

"Another day, little spider. Now keep quiet for me." Tony reached down and unzipped his jeans. He pulled out his cock, pants just below his hips. Peter moaned as he pushed in, both hands covering his mouth as he tried to be quiet. Tony had found a quieter way of making it hurt, using just enough lube to push inside, but not quite enough. It burned as he pushed deep. Peter legs trembled and he clung to Tony's biceps. Peter whimpered quietly.

"That's a good boy," Tony purred. His eyes shined. The smile on his lips was dangerous.

He took his hands away to beg. "Tony, please," and he kissed him. Peter moaned and whined, sounds muffled by Tony's lips, as he fucked him slow and deep. His whole was body like a live wire, burning, vibrating with need. When Tony's hand wrapped around his cock his lips parted spilling soft whines into the air.

"Hush, little spider," Tony warned. "Wouldn't want Aunt May to know what a whore you are, would you? In here spreading your legs in your childhood bed, demanding to get fucked like a spoiled brat."

"Fuck," Peter groaned through clenched teeth.

"You can't help it can you?" He smirked. "You're too addicted to my cock."

"Yes." Tony tried to move faster and Peter grabbed his hip. "Not yet."

Tony kept moving slowly. He pressed kisses to Peter's neck that Peter answered with a string of kisses down his throat.

"Tony," Peter breathed his name against his skin. "I love you."

Tony answered him, lips brushing against his neck. "I love you, Peter."

"I thought you died, today."

"Never, baby. I'm unkillable."

Peter held his face and crushed their lips together, moaning as they kissed. Tony started to move faster, fucking him just as frantically. It burned. It hurt so good that it made his head spin. He felt his cock dripping onto his belly. His thighs squeezed Tony's hips, probably digging in bruises but he didn't have it in him to care. A hand wrapped around his throat and squeezed. Teeth bit into his bottom lip. He tasted blood and it only drove him higher. Another hand clamped around his mouth and he realized he was nearly screaming.

Tony kept fucking him while he came, gripping his hips when he finally quieted down and driving into him until he was spilling his own cum inside him. He laid down next to him, kissing him frantically until the fatigue set in.

Peter felt like crying. It was too much. Everything was too much, too overwhelming. At least Tony was here with him now. He could keep him safe as long as he was here in his arms.

[chaoticpete]

Our lives is a movie?

Peter Parker x reader...I think, Avengers x reader, Tom Holland x Reader (if ya squint)

Warnings: none

What would it be like if the team found out they were just a movie series in our world?

A/n: This is just an idea I had like last year, will probably end up rewriting it, well at least the end, hope you guys still enjoy it though!

“Oh come on! I was so close to an almost perfect winning streak!” You yell at Bucky. Tossing the controller beside you, you cross your arms and start pouting as your Yoshi finally crosses over the finish line.

“Guess I’m just better.” He replies with a smug smirk. “Is that why I beat you the first three games.” It’s your turn to smirk when he glares at you. An alarm starts going off through the tower. A code red. Someone is inside the tower. You wave your hand and your suit appears on.

“FRIDAY! Where’s the intruder?” Tony asks, running into the room, Nat and Wanda following behind. “They’re trying to get into the plans vault, sir.”

“L/N would you mind pulling up a portal?” You make one leading to the vault. “Why of course Papa Stark!” Tony summons a suit and the rest of you jump through your portal seeing a blue man trying to get past the actual vault.

“Hey, Smurf! Who do you think you are?” You ask, throwing a mini explosive his way. He jumps out of way throwing back a disk towards you guys that set off a bright light.

Then he sent another one.

“Void! Look out!” Peter says pushing you out of the way the same time you made another portal causing it to mix with the blue guy’s device.

Before anyone else in the team could do anything the guy was gone, and so were you and Peter.

You land landing on your face. “Ow...I really don’t get paid enough for this.” You grumble as you get back up and brush off your clothes. You notice a golden disk by you. It’s the one the guy threw.

Picking it up and slipping it into your suit, you begin looking around you, you see lots of people walking around some talking other carrying items. “Where the hell am I?” You say starting to walk around.

When you spotted some familiar brown curls. “Peter!” You say running towards the boy and pulling him into a hug. “Ugh, I have absolutely no idea whe- when you change your clothes?” You ask actually getting a good look at him.

‘Peter’ looks at you confused. “When did I change my clothes? Darling, I think the real question is what are you wearing and who are you?” He says in a British accent.

Before either of you can say anything else ANOTHER Peter runs up to you. “Y/n!” “Peter?!” You say back pulling this one in a hug.

“Are you okay?” “Yeah. But when I came out of that portal this woman automatically started coming at me saying that “I needed to get ready for the next scene” and “I needed a touch up” THEN SHE TRIED TO UNDRESS ME! I ran so fast.”

Quickly remembering the other Peter you step back from that Peter and look between the two. Peter looks over at the next person, who he saw...was him. “Holy shit!” He says jumping closer to you.

“Y/n, what is happening?” “I don’t know but I don’t like it. Do you think this is Loki’s doing?” “No, no.” He's on that time mission, remember.” “She.” “Oh yeah.”

The fake Peter looked just as confused as the both of you. “I feel like I should be calling security, but it’s not every day you meet someone who looks, exactly like you.” He says staring at Peter.

“Whoa, you’re British?!” Peter askes shocked at the accident. “Would it help better if I talked like this?” He asked now in an American accent.

He sounded just like Peter.

Both your and Peter’s eyes open wide. “Noooo.” You both say. “You both already look very much alike. Don’t you guys talk alike also?”

A loud bell rings and you and Peter automatically jump into your fighting stances. “Shit! Break is just about done.” Fake Peter says panicking a bit.

“Uh, okay follow me. You guys can stay in my trailer till I’m done for the day then when you get to the hotel we can figure this out.” He says starting to walk towards the trailers.

He goes to one labeled “Peter Parker” and opens the door. “You guys can wait till I’m done. Please, don’t let anyone in. I have a key so I’ll just lock it. Um, there are some snacks in the cupboard, water in the fridge, and feel free to watch anything on the tele. Even got youtube!” He yelled before closing the door.

“...did you catch any of that?” “Nope.”

Turning on the tv, you see the date. “February 16, 2021. What the hell is Covid-19-“

You get cut off by someone trying to open the door. “Fucking div locked the door again. And left the tele on.” You hear a voice mumble on the other side before walking off.

“N/n look at this,” Peter says flipping through pages of paper.

“What is it?” “It’s a script. For a “Spider-Man: No Way Home.” He says looking at the first page. “It has everyone in here. Aunt May, Mj, Ned even that European trip we went on.” “Wait what?” You ask, looking over his shoulder.

“Dude...where the hell are we.”

Hours passed and before you know it you hear the trailer door unlocking. Sitting up in the bed you see the fake Peter (whose name you learned was Tom) walking in looking tired.

“Hey. Okay, so before I actually bring you guys back home. Who exactly are you?”

“Well, my name is Peter. Peter Parker. Spider-Man. Um, I’m pretty sure you know me.”

“Yeah kinda. I am...you? Technically...in this universe. Well, one of you. I’ll explain better at the hotel. Oh, I’m Tom by the way. Don’t think I’ve actually introduced myself.” He says chuckling. “And you?” He asks turning your attention to you.

“I’m the actual Y/n. Or Void as my hero name.”

“Y/n huh? Yeah, we don’t have you here.” “Wait what? Really? But I’m Peter’s partner in crime. We’re always getting blamed for everything with the team.” You say pouting.

“Is there at least an actor that looks like me?” “No, I don’t think so darling. Sorry.”

Before anything else can be said there’s another knock on the door. “Tom, are you in there mate? We’re going to go get some pizza.”

“Uh, no thanks I’ll just meet you back at the room. Be safe.” “Who was that?” “My brother, Harry.” “Aww, he has a brother.” “Three actually.” “Awww!”

“Okay it should be safe to get you two out of here but first. Here,” Tom says opening up a kit bag and giving Peter some clothes and you an oversized hoodie. “They might think you’re trying to steal the suit.”

“Oh, and you’ll need these.” He says grabbing a box and handing you each a mask after Peter was done changing.

“Yeah what’s with these?” “We’re in a pandemic?” “Like the plague?” “Ehh, sort of. Now let’s find a way to get you two back home.”

**************************************************************

“So here, we’re all just...comic book characters? There are no avengers? No flying robots? Nothing?”

“Nope. No alien villains. Just regular people who wanna bring harm.” “Huh.”

The three of you were now in Tom’s suite.

“So how did you guys even get here.” “Well, my theory is when the guy threw his little disk thingy, it merged with Y/n powers and made a new portal.”

“But how do you know that’s what it was meant to do?” “It’s the only explanation with how he got into the compound and the vault unnoticed.”

“You guys never thought about that?” “Blame Tony.” You say as Peter hisses and moves back from getting shocked.

“You okay?” You say grabbing his hand to inspect the slight burn. “Yeah, just a sting. It’ll heal in an hour or two.”

“Can you get us back home?” “Yeah, but I’ll need a few supplies.” “Well,” Tom speaks up. “I’m off tomorrow so we can go pick up what you need. You can stay here tonight if you like.”

“Thanks, dude,” Peter says and you nod with him.

“You guys hungry? I can ask Harry to bring back some pizza for us.” “Ohh yes please.” You say bouncing on your toes a bit. “I’m absolutely starving.”

“So Tom you’re an actor right?” “Mhmm.” “And you said you play me?” “Yep.” “And they have the rest of the team?” “Besides me apparently,” you say under your breath.

“Maybe they’ll bring you in soon. The company is starting a new phase so,” Tom says shrugging.

“Do you guys wanna see them?” “How many are there?” “23 movies and more coming out. There's also shows.”

“23 MOVIES ABOUT US?!”

Tom can’t help but laugh at your guy’s reaction. “Yeah, Marvel movies are some of the biggest ones these days. Going on for almost 13 years.”

“How much have you acted in?” “Like five, two solo films, and this one we’re currently filming will make it six. Three solos and three with the actual avengers.”

There was a knock on the door. “Must be Harry with the pizza,” Tom says going to the door. “Why didn’t you just use your key?”

“Cause my hands are full ya div. Why did you get so much food any-“ Harry stops when he sees you and Peter sitting on the couch.

Tom quickly grabs the food from his hands before he can even think about letting it go.

Looking between his brother and his duplicate you couldn’t help but start laughing at his expression.

All three turned to look at you like you completely lost his mind (which I’m sure is exactly how Harry was feeling). “I’m just gonna...nice meeting you guys I guess.” He says walking to what you think is his room before looking back at Tom and Peter causing him to almost walk up into a wall.

“Uh...sorry about that. That’s my little brother Harry, he came along as my assistant.” You and Peter nod. “Well guess we can dig in and watch the movies.”

“I- it was not that dramatic when Mr. Stark took the suit.” “Yes, it was. You could barely talk properly when you called me.”

“I can’t believe they included Flash but not me.”

“Okay, but why is the guy who plays Mysterio kinda hot though.” “Y/n I swear.” “Okay, but am I wrong?!” “...no.”

“Tony’s ego is gonna be ruined if he ever knows they killed him off.”

“Sucks we didn’t have enough time to watch all 23 films. I’m sure it would make more sense.”

And that’s how your night went. You just watched the Spider-Man stand-alone ones before everyone started to crash from the long eventful day. Harry even came out and joined you guys.

After figuring out what was needed and put together his own device, it was time for you guys to go home.

“You guys got everything?” Harry asks as Peter puts the finishing touches. “Yeah, thank you, guys. Really, I don’t know what I and Peter would’ve done if we didn’t end up here.”

“Oh! These are for you.” Tom says handing you a bag. “It’s the whole MCU collection. I saw how much you guys loved the Spider-Man ones and it was confusing since they all interact. Plus, I’m sure the others would wanna see them.”

“As if some of them need an ego boost. Especially Tony and Loki. I’m pretty sure if Loki ever found out he was actually worshipped here he would find a way to get here.”

You go and pull Tom into a hug. “Nice meeting you Peter’s British half. I’ve never really cared for them but eh, I guess I have a little soft spot for two of them now.” You say shooting Harry a wink before placing a kiss on Tom’s cheek and then going to give Harry a hug as Peter says his byes.

“Ready N/n?” “I guess. I just hope we actually end up in our world and not a different one.” You say grabbing Peter's hand as he gets ready to throw the disc.

You both look back at the two Holland brothers. “See you again one day boys.” You say as Peter throws the disc and a portal opens and the two of you jump through it.

The two of you crash to the floor. “Ugh, Peter get off me! You’re skinny but really heavy.”

“Kids!” You both look up to see the team rushing to you guys. “Where did you two go?!”

Getting up from the ground, both tackled with hugs.

“YOu'll never believe us. But we do have the next movie night!” “What are those?” “Movies about us. Avengers! To the theater room!”

Tags:: @tommyunderoos @spideyspeaches @frenchfrostpudding @holland-styles @gwenvrse @allegra-writes @petersgroupie @cherry-hyejin @kitkatd7 @buckys-other-punk

[annakie]

REDEMPTION TIME!

Leverage: Redemption released a day early and I’ve spent a good chunk of today watching the first 6 episodes (gonna save the last two for tomorrow) and no spoilers but I LOVE IT SO MUCH.

OK ok a few mild spoilers under the cut

First of all, Nate being dead is as expected and A-OK with me.  Honestly I think him being dead really makes the series work and pushes them all forward.  Nate is referred to respectably, everyone misses Nate, and even Nate’s son’s death is referred to a time or two when appropriate.  After having finished a re-binge of the series a couple of weeks ago, I gotta say, I don’t... really miss Nate?

Noah Wylie’s Harry Wilson is great.  Honestly just fits right into the team and his spot on the team well.  He is good at what he’s good at (paperwork, lawyer-ing, knowing how the System works, can relate well to people) and a full human being while also being a great centerpiece to the theme of the season -- Redemption.  I really love how it gives the others a chance to talk about how the team and the events of the original show changed them, some of the most touching moments have come about through Harry so far.  And Noah himself is doing a fantastic job. 

Which brings us to Sophie.  I love that it feels like Sophie has really stepped up.  She needs this... and yet I think she’s still heading for a crash.  It’s clear that she loved Nate and they had a good relationship going until his death (which we’re not entirely clear on so far, maybe a heart attack?).  She and Parker are kind of both Masterminding now, though Sophie is more Harry’s mentor, while Parker is Breana’s.  But Sophie has also brought tears to my eyes several times.

There’s been a moment or two I think they slightly teased a possible Harry/Sophie ship and... right now... I hope not?  We don’t know much about Harry’s personal life except that he has kids, but I gotta assume he’s not married anymore since he’s living with the team in New Orleans... but I think it’s way too soon for that.  Hopefully I was reading into things that weren’t there.  I do love how she always calls him “Mr. Wilson” though.

Speaking of Breana!  I love her!  She’s a great character -- so much more than “young female Hardison”, although her team role really does feel like everything Hardison would be doing with a small twist.  But I love her developing mentor/mentee relationship with Parker.  I hope we do get to dig more into her background, but it’s still less than halfway through the season, so there’s time.

The fact that there’s two “newbies” in the group does add an interesting twist, though Harry is learning more about Crime and Redemption while Breana learns more of those “early adult” lessons and how to relate.  They both also have things to teach, and those things have come into play, even between not only the rest of the team but also each other, this early in the season.

And then let’s talk about the OT3.

Hardison is in the first two episodes and then not the rest of the half-season, which we all knew he’d be gone.  I expect we probably won’t see him again until the last couple of episodes in the fall.  That’s OK, I’m just glad we get him around at all.  His presence is heavy in the episodes he was there, and felt when he’s not.  He’s mentioned often, and it definitely feels like he’ll be back in the show-world, not just because we know he will be because of news reports.

He and Parker are still clearly a couple, and the show continues to leave the question of Eliot as a “easy to interpret as OT3 if you want to, but not pushing the idea.”  Some people may be disappointed, but it’s what I expected. 

I do have a quibble that Parker was clearly supposed to be the Mastermind while it was just the OT3 running cons, and now that Sophie is back, Parker isn’t so clearly in charge anymore, but she and Sophie are sharing the spotlight.  Like, I’m okay with it, but I wonder if it’s going to be addressed at some point.  But otherwise she’s Parker, still her “weird” self, but also showing a lot of growth.  Again, really love her relationship with Breana.

And Eliot... admits he had anger issues, and still wants to take the burdens from the others, still reaches out to Sophie when she needs it, and still kicks ass.  Episode 6, btw, has my favorite Eliot fight scene of all time.  I cannot wait for gifs.

Is it perfect?  No.  But it’s still the same Leverage with a few new twists, I do love the new characters while missing having Hardison around all the time.  I am happily devouring this new season and hope we continue to get more.

BTW -- everyone in the US can watch the show for free with ads.  I’m watching via Amazon Prime and the commercial breaks are few (three, I think) with only one to three commercials per break.  I will typically pay or do whatever I need to to not watch ads, but I am happily watching these ads because they’re reasonable and I know the show will need the numbers for another season, so please, watch it on Amazon Prime or IMBD.TV with the ads so we can get more. :)

[smallblueandloud]

some leverage: redemption reactions

i finished leverage redemption today! and i don't have anyone to talk to about it so, here we have my reactions for all eight episodes, both positive and negative. please feel free to reblog/comment -- discussions are what i'm here for! (under a cut because spoilers and also this ended up being 2k. whoops!)

EPISODE 1: the too many rembrandts job

the "aww, this guy is trying to pull his first heist! how cute" job

what they chose to do with nate was... interesting. it might just be that i read too many of those cracky "here's how they should explain nate's absence" posts, but i was expecting something funny. the grief permeating this episode -- it makes SENSE, but it was still weird. leverage doesn't usually have sadness like this. pain, yes, rage, certainly, but sadness? not usually

the way sophie immediately spots the signs of a con and slips into a character? phenomenal. i'm here for EXPERTS BEING EXPERTS and this show does NOT disappoint

harry wilson is a really solid character! most impressively, he's not flynn, which is impressive enough that i'm making a whole bullet point about it. i was worried that noah wyle was kinda a one-trick pony, but it appears not! good for him tbh

i'm LIVING for the ot3 moments in this episode. "what happened?" "we happened" YESSSSS!!! i wish we'd had more domesticity, but i know they did what they could

"he gets it from his father" FUCK!!!!!

the discussion about redemption in this episode is FANTASTIC but personally i am still delirious with excitement about "my nana leads a multi-denominational household" so expect those thoughts in 3-5 business days

EPISODE 2: the panamanian monkey job

the "flash electropop concert" job

BREANNA INTRODUCTION! i love her so MUCH, y'all. we only got to see her dynamic with hardison in this one episode, but man, it manages to be one of her best dynamics anyway. i just! i love her! i love the way the team works with her!

"in our field, you're one of the best. but there, you're the only one." god we have ELIOT/HARDISON rights and i am NOT OKAY. just!! them!!!!!! being supportive!!!!!! they have learned how to be sweet with each other! they work together so much better (in part because we're seeing them from harry's outsider pov instead of nate's insider pov, but STILL)

midway through this episode, i thought "huh, leverage always focuses on specific people, when really the problem is systematic, and pretending it's anything different is just an excuse to not fight for change". and then at the end harry talks about how the system itself is broken! i love knowing that john rogers and i were reading the same tweets last summer. it's a good feeling to trust the people making a piece of media

who let noah wyle speak spanish. whoever it was, they need to rescind their permission

god, the parker/hardison in this episode. THE PARKER/HARDISON IN THIS EPISODE! they KILL me friends they KILL ME!

also just like, hardison in this episode in general. he made a star trek reference! he made a doctor who reference! he decides there are other people who need him more! the way they wrote around gina bellman's maternity leave in s2 was good but this was phenomenal.

also i'm here for ot3 crumbs so "is this like the time when eliot wanted us to say no" is going on my ot3-is-canon conspiracy board

this is a tiny detail but eliot taking out the drone with a goddamn ORANGE was so good. he's so good at his job!! they're all so good at their jobs!! i know i literally just talked about this but AAA

EPISODE 3: the rollin' on the river job

the "sometimes you just want to rob a vault wearing a floofy dress, and that's valid" job

i did... not. like. how the villain in this one was an immigrant whose exploitable weakness was a "desperation" to be included in the upper crust. and the fact that they beat him with a literal southern belle who explicitly beats him BECAUSE her family has been in the area for "hundreds of years"? it just feels Iffy.

also iffy about this episode was breanna's characterization. it felt inconsistent. she feels inconsistent across the whole season, but this episode in particular... she tells harry she's only with the team because she's desperate, that she doesn't believe in hope, and then at the end of the episode she tells parker she wants to be there to change the world. and like, even in the first place, she's not here out of desperation! SHE asked to join the team! like, i can see how it all kinda fits together, but it just feels... inconsistent. idk. i think these scripts all could've benefited from an extra round or two of editing.

anyway! i loved the way they tied hardison into these episodes, even though aldis hodge couldn't be there. he has binders! breanna doesn't want to read them! parker did! he put in big letters, "when in doubt, trust the person in the van". i'm just so !!! about how much i love him and how much he loves his team and how much his team loves him. FOUND FAMILY, BABY!

all inconsistencies in breanna's characterization aside, i really liked her speech at the end. i know how she feels! it's really nice to have someone on the team who's from -- not my world, really, but a lot closer than any of the others. it's a nice feeling! i love her a lot. i hope her writing gets more consistent

lol, parker ate eliot's carrot cake. i love the parker/eliot rights we get in this show, they're so domestic and it's wonderful.

EPISODE 4: the tower job

the "hardison made his partners learn klingon" job

watching this episode was what made me go "they're not going to make us sit through a harry/sophie romance... right? right?"

i'm still not sure they're gonna let us avoid it but it COULD work so... i've decided to just not worry about it for now

i liked the number of ways the con goes wrong! it was fun to watch them work on the fly like that. i think them not having a dedicated Mastermind(tm) is a good watsonian explanation for their plans being pretty haphazard in general, but it's good, they think well on their feet

nate was a chessmaster. he had the whole situation in his mind from the beginning, accounting for every possible outcome. parker and sophie are much more adaptive, and it's cool to see. they can rely on their respective skillsets a lot more than nate could

a really solid episode! probably one of the strongest ones in the season. i liked it a lot.

(ALSO as mentioned above the klingon lines were fantastic and not just because they were a star trek reference -- every time eliot and parker both mentioned hardison, together, it added a year to my lifespan)

EPISODE 5: the paranormal hacktivity job

the "sophie was worryingly prepared to fake her death" job

i know why they characterized the client as a skeptic, i really do, and i loved the format of this episode, but also. But Also. she should've been a love interest for breanna and I'm Right.

having a girl's episode was the CORRECT choice. they do crimes in their free time! they fleece newbie, cruel criminals! it's so good!

it would've been cool to have eliot around for the assassin guy, but it was also cool to see the others take him out without having eliot to rely on. it's like getting to see how they'd take out eliot, if they were ever on opposing sides.

PARKER CANONICALLY USES SCRIPTS IT'S THE BEST THING EVER

breanna bristling about letting the criminal into the theater's electric system was so good god i love her so much. she knows hardware! i bet she likes to work with her hands. i bet she stims. i bet she has adhd

actually, sidenote, but i LOVE these headquarters. they look so nice! the stage is so nice! i loved having an episode set in and around it, it was such a good choice.

EPISODE 6: the card game job

the "FINALLY AN EXPLICITLY QUEER LEVERAGE CHARACTER" job

QUEER BREANNA QUEER BREANNA QUEER BREANNA QUEER BR

UNFOLLOW ME NOW THIS IS GONNA BE THE ONLY THING I POST ABOUT FOR THE REST OF TIME

GOD, what a good way to reveal it. it's fully about her! i love queer romances, of course i do, but i don't think i've ever seen a character come out without a romance being their reason for doing so (however indirectly). i still think she should've gotten a date with the client from 1x05, but i really liked this too.

this episode just felt like a love letter to fandom, and i love that. i love how much it shone through. i'm used to writers specifically going out of their way to make fun of fans and laugh at them, so it was just. really nice to have someone stand up and go, no, this is important for a reason! people love this for a reason! it MEANS something!

very fun to watch eliot swordfight. very fun to watch sophie recite a sonnet in her classic fashion. very fun to watch parker work at being a good mentor. breanna was so excited about the card game! they're all so good!

oh, and i guess harry's here too.

EPISODE 7: the double-edged sword job

the "harry is addicted to mobile games, which is a mood" job

hot take alert! i think this is the weakest episode of the season by a LOT. it needed so much more editing. it felt so disjointed, so all over the place. the plot was haphazard but in a muffled way, where you had no idea why they were doing what they were doing. the climax was sudden and didn't make any sense. it was just weird.

i'm not the person to comment on this but it feels kind of lazy to cast an east asian guy to play a socially-awkward tech genius. just a thought.

oh, of course jonathan frakes directed this episode. sometimes his stuff is really good but other times (ahem, ds9 3x02) it's disjointed and all over the place. i'm not even surprised it was him.

idk if i have anything else to say about this. oh! some of the team moments were great -- mostly involving eliot. i loved the moment of him recognizing the headshot, i LOVED the ten seconds of everyone teasing him. he and parker talked about the wellbeing of their friend, the woman whose ex tracked her down!

separate bulletpoint to say how much i LOVED his conversation with breanna outside the house. he's so good at reassuring! he could go deeper there, talking about being better than your worst day, but he knew when not to push! it was so good.

"first off, this guy can't TOUCH hardison" deserves its own bulletpoint because like. y'all. Y'ALL.

EPISODE 8: the mastermind job

the "eliot is more than just a pretty face" job

oh man this post is so much longer than i thought it would be. okay just one more episode and then i'm done.

the callbacks to original leverage were SO well done and made me feel emotions without feeling overbearing.

i didn't like the central premise -- that nate would share so many details with a random insurance agent -- in the first place, but i did like how it allowed them to bring back nate without actually hiring timerty mcasshole.

i liked eliot's insistence that he's more than just the muscle! he is, and it's really good to know, textually, that the writers do too!

me, watching the resolution of the episode: ah, yeah, insurance fraud. a classic!

harry bonding with his guard had "they don't even have dental!" energy and i am SUCH a fan. i know it was all for the con but also give me harry, unable to stop advising people, even when they're actively holding him hostage

parker! on the phone with hardison!!!! ADORABLE

is it just me or was someone else expecting the accountant's name to be something significant? with the way they led up to it, i was waiting for a "sterling" or something else. my sensors were pinging for another tara reveal. i'm still convinced we're gonna get this guy dramatically revealed in the season finale.

a really nice episode! i had a lot of fun with it. and now i want to rewatch the rashamon job, but tbh i ALWAYS want to rewatch the rashamon job.

and that's a wrap! overall, a fun season, i enjoyed it a lot. not as solid as original leverage, but it's the very beginning, and it was put together during a global pandemic, so i'm cutting them some slack. also levar burton is gonna show up at some point. that's a big reason of why i'm cutting them so much slack.

my personal ranking of the episodes is 1x04, 1x06, 1x08, 1x01, 1x02, 1x03, and finally last (and least), 1x07.

what did you guys think of the new season? what was your favorite episode? do you agree with any of my opinions? disagree with any? let me know, please, i'd love to discuss!

[cakeandpi]

Parker!! spoilers abound

hm, so Harry (aka Lawyer) has been fired/let go and no one gave him the memo on it. Is his old job/boss going to be this episodes mark?

oof, Harry is bad at being subtle with his ‘okay look in [place]’ comm directions

ah okay so isn’t a legal firm that’s about representing their clients to the best of their ability. it’s a firm whose about smoothing bad things over for rich clients so that there’s little to no consequences.

“I remember when you wanted to change the world.”/“World did change. We just went along for the ride.” So the world changed the boss, the boss gave up on changing the world because he saw a way to profit from it and didn’t care that he hurt others along the way.

The way that car drove up onto the curve, I thought that was Sophie in a big hurry at first. (I would have thought Parker but there wasn’t enough time for her to crack the safe, get to the relevant files, get out, and then drive there.) But no, it’s Maxwell’s thugs because the man holds a grudge apparently. So I’m going to guess he’s going to be the season big bad? Or is he just a 2-episode bad guy and we’ll find out who the real big bad is later?

Hardison: listing various problems on various international efforts he’s helping with Eliot: let’s make this a restaurant metaphor Hardison: *very much regretting ever buying Eliot that brewpub*

Nuts and bolts about bad guy details

Also that bit about Hardison being distracted by problems is definitely a distraction, there’s no way he’d pause on making sure their safehouse was secure

Eliot is not so much pissed as insulted that the world is at the point of advertising the corruption rather than him needing to beat it out of someone.

drone!!

*snort* eliot's usually the grouchy one, and he’s carrying a trashcan right now. there’s no way hardison doesn’t make some oscar the grouch joke once he sees that.

“It’s like you never stopped.”/“Yeah. Quite the act.” Sophie slows down at Hardison’s comment, then sighs and sits. She’s finding this tiring now. Is it because she’s out of practice? Or because after so many years of retirement, her hearts not in it anymore? And Hardison notices. He doesn’t say anything concrete immediately, because Sophie hasn’t really elaborated on what’s going on with her. When she does - it’s her grief, and how its affecting her grift now - there’s this concern in Hardison’s face. There’s absolutely going to be a meeting between the OT3 about how to straddle not straining Sophie too much and not babying her should she stay on for another job after this.

“But I can’t work forever, can I?” There’s a defeated tone to this, and it’s true - Sophie’s just human, one day she too will pass on. Her grief for Nate (and how being back with the team keeps reopening that wound) is coloring her view on this for sure. (Did Nate work himself to death?) It’s also, very distantly, a remark on the OT3 - they too can’t work forever. They were Sophie’s and Nate’s proteges. And it’s not that the OT3 doesn’t have anything in place if they go down - they’ve got small teams running all over the world. But they don’t have their own personal proteges. Harry’s a decent start, but they’ll need to recruit and open up their circle to at least one, maybe two more before they’re ready to retire. Before they, too, burn too hot for too long.

“You hear that? That’s a very distinctive sound.” YES

Another Basil & Brick truck! This one has.... empanadas, ropa vieja, sancocho, and I think the last one is yuca frita. Mm, yuca fries.

BREANNA!!!

Parker! Taught Breanna to tail people! (Hardison in particular?) When she was 11! Wait does that mean Parker’s met Nana?! Also Parker is so smug and satisfied that Breanna paid attention to her lessons.

“I teach every kid I meet how to do crime.” <3 be gay do crime

This is a big ‘I’m telling mom!’ argument and I love it, especially the “I think she’s napping” LMAO

“How you saved Eliot’s life all those times” Oh man Hardison is sleeping on the metaphorical couch tonight. But also I need to come back to this later because honestly and really? Hardison has - as part of a group team effort - saved Eliot’s life from himself. By giving him a way to work through his anger issues, by caring for him, by showing Eliot he’s needed and that he’s more than just a hitter. The team saved Eliot’s life. (And there’s probably a bunch of erasing digital trails/etc where Hardison did more directly save Eliot’s life but that's besides the point.)

“But hacking’s kind of old school anyway.” And as she goes on, Eliot goes from aggrieved to ‘oh, a new best friend’ because now he has someone to help him annoy Hardison.

Parker pulls Hardison into a side room (by his ear, but he’s not protesting in pain so that’s got to be just for show). And then pushes him up against the wall and Hardison is like ‘okay whatever lecture is coming can it not be like this?’ If it weren’t for the glass walls that’d be some makeout stuff right here.

LOL at Parker’s standard for a ‘normal’ person being ‘uses Uber, pays taxes, and has a birth certificate’.

“Wait is this like that time in Paris?” I... don’t remember an episode set in Paris with a robot and explosions so this must be during the time skip. And - “... but you didn’t want to hurt Eliot’s feelings so you secretly wanted us to agree.” I’m going to scream if there’s no confirmed ot3 by the end of the season. And cry. And read a whole bunch of fic.

Look at these two being honest with each and communicating and respecting each others opinions, they’ve grown so much from pretzel metaphors.

“You’re not mad. You did the Picard tug.”/“I am mad.“/“Did the tug. You know I like that.” Parker might be mad (at Hardison? Breanna? Both?) but not so much that she’s completely shutting out Hardison, giving him a nonverbal signal that she’s not pissed, just needs some time to be upset before everything’s okay.

“One. Job.” Parker says. And we the viewers know it’ll be more than one. But really what that means by now is that this is an audition. Parker may have taught Breanna some things, but now Breanna has to show that they do better with her rather than without, that she’s an asset and not a liability or dead weight.

I laughed so hard that because this shit’s illegal, there’s no cutting corners on the paperwork.

“And you didn’t get tortured.”/“Not this time.” I can’t tell if Eliot wants Harry to get a little bit tortured or if he’s just reminding Harry that this time around people were in a good mood and showing off.

Breanna stops herself before suggesting something, and Hardison, for all that he isn’t delighted at her presence and protested her being here, encourages her to speak up. If she’s going to be part of the team, even for one job, she’s part of the team and that means speaking up and throwing ideas out there for others to bounce around, even if it winds up being a football that can’t be dribbled.

OT3 TEAM JUST GOT DUBBED ‘DRILL TEAM’. (why is that also somehow a dirty joke i’m dying here)

Oh one of the baddies is a Com4r4t fan... oh wait no this is the beginning of a plan backfiring.

Aww Breanna is so proud of what she’s done! It’s very much like season 1 Hardison. So Sophie and Hardison go to do their own thing, only that means the baddies are here to talk to Breanna and she doesn’t have backup.

THE 'LET ME GET MY BOSS’ THE SPIN AROUND AND THE ‘WHY ARE YOU BOTHERING MY STAFF’ I LOVE BREANNA.

“I’m your neighbor who runs a business built on discretion.” This is going to go very badly depending on how Breanna plays this. At least she gets the earbud in to call for help!

Another Brick&Basil truck! Etoufee and jambalaya, dammit eliot stop choosing delicious food to advertise. 

“I monkey-shamed the DJ” I. Love. Her. Also Sophie’s already read Breanna as having the skills to just need general guidelines for an impromptu grift rather than needing to be fed specific lines.

“Okay here’s the thing.” And there’s a pause, we’re thinking he’s about to come down real hard on Breanna, and then we get “I love Com4r4t.” he is a fanboy I guessed it right!! And then he does go through with the threat, but not as a ‘cancel it or die’ sort of threat, but a ‘if i’m disappointed you die’ way.

Breanna nails the impromptu grift though she’s understandably a bit shaken by the threat at the end. (What newcomer wouldn’t be?) But the threat is what pushes Parker into deciding Breanna should go home ASAP. This is Hardison’s family, from before the team, and Parker isn’t about to risk messing that up. If she pushes for Breanna to stay when Hardison doesn’t want Breanna to, and something goes wrong? Parker would never, ever forgive herself.

But as Sophie has pointed out, they’ve all been out of their depth at one point or another. That doesn’t mean that someone should be sent packing.

Lmao Eliot being possessive of the drill.

“Then you ain’t got no more problems ever again.” There’s a certain sense of morbid humor with the team, one that’s both necessary but also a reality. They deal with this level of danger on a semi-regular basis. Harry just hasn’t caught up to that fact yet.

I have a feeling this particular baddie is going to end up dead for managing to drive a 40% cut.

“I’m just saying dude.” I love that Eliot and Hardison don’t have to rehash their entire arguments anymore unless they’re really enjoying themselves, that they can just be all ‘you know I’ve said my piece’.

“Don’t get distracted by the side gig.”/“Is it a side gig?” For all that the team has been their main focus for so long, for all that they all have side projects and gigs, this has been eating up more and more of Hardison’s time. What I thought was him pretending to be distracted earlier may have been a real distraction. And Eliot’s noticed, and he’s noticed that Hardison hasn’t noticed, that Hardison needs to make a choice here.

“In our line of work, you’re one of the best. But in that line of work you’re the only one, man.” Eliot has a soft smile at the end of that, and it's a bit painful, even as I saw it coming, to hear Eliot suggest that Hardison begin to step away from the team’s day to day.

“It’s okay to grow up, to realize you’re not the person you used to be.” None of them are the person they used to be. Not Sophie, not Parker, not Hardison, and certainly not Eliot. They can see that in each other if not in themselves. (Eliot, being the most grounded of all of them, already knew he’d changed eight years ago.)

“You never grew up.”/“Yeah. I achieved perfection pretty early, huh?” Even as Eliot’s the most grounded, even though he’s the one saying that there’s no one else that could fill Hardison’s role in that other work, the idea that Hardison might actually choose to step away from the team is too raw to handle without turning to humor.

Harry’s a bit jumpy, but he’s learning to play it off. I like that he’s a very different character from Nate, that it’s not his anger or ego driving him so much as a desire to make restitution.

And a “Dammit Hardison”

Ooh, Eliot’s in the vents too, just in time to help Parker. (She doubtless has her beloved taser but that would take time away from getting into the vault.)

“I smell lasers” Ahahahahaha

“You’re going to compare me to Eliot right now?” (’over the comms, where others who aren’t Eliot can hear?’ Hardison did not say out loud.)

ouch, okay, Hardison hurting his back like that might be what actually makes him choose the other gig over the team, or at what makes him take a little vacation so he can heal from that. (back injuries are nothing to play around with!)

how did Maxwell get past Eliot? but it’s all good, Eliot’s right behind to disarm him. And Parker’s been doing her hitting lessons, she didn’t even need a taser or to stab anyone!

Oh Harry, the bomb will be used, it’s just not time yet.

New Orleans gumbo is its own food group.

Okay so Hardison’s done a lot of work getting this place in order... WAIT IS THAT A PUNCHING BAG? That’s a punching bag! It might not be the love-letter the brewpub was but it’s definitely a thing added specifically for Eliot.

Oh no, Eliot might realize what Hardison’s doing with this, but Parker hasn’t caught up yet that Hardison’s going to be taking a break from the team.

Parker’s blindsided by this, and she’s upset, but she’s not mad because why didn’t she see this coming she should have seen it, so she leaves to deal with her emotions alone. Hardison follows, naturally, she knew he would, but she can’t face him because then he’ll see her crying, and Parker doesn’t do emotions easily. She’s torn between wanting him to help people and wanting to be with him (and she can’t go with him, she needs to be helping people too).

And Parker doesn’t want Breanna there without Hardison. Again because it’d put Hardison’s family in danger and that’s a step too far for Parker if Hardison doesn’t okay it. And also because with Hardison leaving, Breanna’s just going to be reminders of what Parker’s missing. And Breanna doesn’t have Hardison’s skillset, can’t fill his shoes - not that she should but she can’t, and Parker, I think, is already mentally preparing herself to go it alone again. Because if this job needs Hardison so bad, then surely Eliot’s got some project that needs his specific attention, and it was just one job for Breanna, and Sophie’s been adamant that this is one last job for her, and Harry’s still new and will probably decide to do his own thing given time to think... I think that’s where her brain is at, at least for the next thirty seconds, before she catches up with herself and realizes that more like the time she busted her leg than the team dissolving around her. (This kind of went weird places but that’s stream of thought for me)

And as they come back in Parker’s already cheering up some, because that wave of despair has already blown over. Yeah, she’s not a parent, but she’s good at teaching when she tries.

“It could be a reunion tour.”/��No. I’m retired.” It’s very different from Nate’s old protestations. He was not a thief. Whereas with Sophie it’s not ready. And while they all point out that she’s been happier while doing cons, that they could use the help, it’s not forceful or overpowering. It’s still Sophie’s decision. They’re not going to make her house their new base and taunt her with it; they’re not the sort of people who’d do that anymore, and anyway that’d be cruel instead of a fun sort of goading.

And because they give Sophie space to make a decision, while she doesn’t want to make a long-term commitment, she’s willing to take on ‘just a few more’.

[sergeant-angels-trashcan]

canNOT decide which version of “Harry Wilson actually already knows Kate Bishop, thanks anyway” i like more:

Harry was one of Derek Bishop’s attorneys and he’s actually the one who cut Kate off

variations on “Harry worked for Derek”

he calls her now that he’s a good guy to talk to her about her dad’s company, he’s thinking of seeing if Leverage will go after Derek next, and he asks her to meet up with him

at like, an abandoned warehouse or something super sketch like that

and Kate says sure, but she’s ALSO not stupid, so she calls David and asks if he’ll go with her

David Hardison says yeah, his babes are going to be in New York that week so he’ll be able to spend time with them!! 

They meet in the super sketchy warehouse and Harry’s all “Hardison? What are you doing here?” and Hardison is all “why the hell are you calling my friend Kate,” and Kate’s all “David why the hell do you know my dad’s asshole lawyer”

a hiLARious misunderstanding

Harry finds out Kate is Hawkeye and he’s like. okay. okay. i need a minute. i need to find someplace to sit down. you’re saying you could have sniped me at any moment, i just, i need a minute

if this is KateQuinn then Quinn goes with her, OBVIOUSLY

and Eliot goes with Harry because Harry lets slip he’s meeting up with someone who probably doesn’t like him very much

Eliot and Quinn are both checking the perimeter and run into each other. they start fighting before they realize who they are

and then it’s lots of back slapping and “dude!”

Eliot rolls his eyes so hard when he finds out Harry is here to see Kate

if he’d been less secrety, they could have had this meeting somewhere with less water damage

harry has a lil crush on quinn

PERHAPS Kate goes to meet Harry, but this time she’s bringing her OWN lawyers, Matt and Foggy, who Harry ALSO knows

and he’s just like, fuck, fuck, i CANNOT catch a break

OR. Leverage is working an unrelated gig and Kate just happens to be at the party they are at to work the mark

Harry and Kate lock eyes and she. the look she gives him. it’s a MURDER look.

and harry’s just like shit shit shit. i think she knows i helped her dad put a hit on an avenger. how does she know. 

Eliot intercepts her before she gets to Harry because Kate can legitimize the con and she’s helped them before

Kate realizing Harry is on the earbuds and straight up threatening him with murder when she’s done

MattKate version where they’re at the party and Matt can tell Harry has the earbud in and tells Kate it’s David’s team

Kate stalks up to Harry and says something to the effect of “say hi to david for me” and Eliot and Parker start freAKIng out because yay!!! kate!!!

they tell Harry what to say so Kate doesn’t deck him and ruin the con

at some point Eliot goes “i think Kate’s lawyer boyfriend is the Devil of Hell’s Kitchen”

“the BLIND LAWYER?”

“it’s a very distinctive stance!”

Harry realizes he not only helped Derek put a hit on an avenger but also his own daughter and harry has a meltdown

OR

they’re running the info on their next job, which is bishop publishing, and Kate walks in, sees Harry, LAUNCHES herself at him, and decks him

cut to harry with a bag of frozen peas against his face while Eliot tries not to laugh

Harry put together the prenup for Derek and wife #5 and went to the wedding. He had the good fortune to sit next to Kate who was guessing how long the marriage would last and how much everything cost like “these super ugly floral arrangements could have funded the meal programs in three schools”

kate kind of hates everything, so harry asks why she even came?

she wanted to glare at her dad the whole night. just enough to make him and the bride uncomfortable

“she’s my age. that’s very ew.” 

“to be fair, she’s almost thirty, once you hit thirty age differences are less--”

“i know how old she is, we graduated high school together.”

“ah, yep. ew.”

the wedding was held at an art museum or something

kate: i know someone who stole this painting once.

harry: ha. ha. ok.

somehow convinced harry to steal some champagne and go into an off limits area to play beer pong with champagne

“i didn’t go to college right after high school, this is what college is like, yeah?”

“it is absolutely not”

he says something about her inheritance and she snorts. she’s not in the will.

harry thinks he could probably write her back into it and no one would know

he’s impressed she has her own business

she’s not impressed he works for her dad

he humblebrags about his daughter

kate: u know what would piss my dad off

harry: i do not.

kate:

harry: no. absolutely no. nope. 

kate: :(

they keep running into each other

kate sneaks into her dad’s new year’s eve party (she was not invited)

she’s planning on stealing some data from him. like crime data

harry has no idea she wasn’t invited, he’s just like “thank fuck someone fun”

at midnight they do the “should we?” awkward shoulder bob thing and give each other a respectful lil smooch

people start to leave and Kate has to bounce before her dad notices her

Harry of course is all “i should walk you home or to a cab, it’s late, who knows what could happen”

which to Kate is the equivalent of a puppy barking at a vacuum

anyway at some point they probably make out

and then Kate realizes Harry’s a sketchy kind of lawyer and nopes out immediately

cut to a year later, Eliot’s telling the team that Hawkeye is going to be joining them on this job for some unspecified reason

everyone is mildly insulted at how surprised Harry is that they know an Avenger

Breanna is SO EXCITE. She temped for Kate one time and they accidentally blew up some dickbag’s bitcoin mining operation because he was stealing electricity from a poor neighborhood

to clarify, FINDING the guy was an accident, the explosion was planned

Alec had given them his “i’m very disappointed” face when he found out. apparently Kate is immune to that face

but the whole point of working with kate was to not do crime so alec was all “no more temp for you”

but basically everyone knows which Hawkeye Eliot is talking about and they’re all really excited and don’t worry, Harry, Hawkeye is cool

and in comes Kate

she and Harry see each other and freeze all YOU

and of course EVERyone in that room either knows how to read people or is being trained to read people so they’re all going oH WHAT. WHAT. SOMETHING HAPPENED WITH THE TWO OF YOU OH OHHHHH

“what are you doing here, sketchy-ass lawyer man?”

“it’s mr. sketchy ass lawyer man to you, and what do you mean what am i doing here, what are you doing here?”

“so i guess you two know each other,” Eliot says

“yeah???” goes kate “he’s one of my dad’s douchebag lawyers!”

“ex douchebag lawyer.”

eventually it gets to harry going “wait, I thought hawkeye was coming?” and all of the rest of leverage going “she’s Here!” and waving in Kate’s direction

Harry is quiet for a minute and then is like “i guess that’s why you laughed at me when i offered to walk you home on new year’s”

“i didn’t MEAN to laugh”

OR Harry represented Derek against Kate

OR Harry was originally Kate’s council as part of Derek Bishop’s team of lawyers, and then when Kate realized her dad was a criminal it became Harry’s job to make her go away and stop causing a ruckus so Kate’s only reason for agreeing to help is on the off chance she gets to punch him

or

harry comes in to meet their newest client and is all ???? the fuck is that vapid heiress doing here, how does someone like her warrant our help

and of course kate is like, tf is that asshole doing here, mr hey-derek-let’s-hide-some-of-your-money-offshore like THAT’s not super sus

at some point he sees her and eliot sparring and harry just. bluescreens. does not compute.

he never had to deal with kate personally but stories about her are legendary, she’s the WORST kind of young money. reckless spending. drinks like the world is going to end. will snort anything.

and here she is. an actual superhero. who apparently uses partying as a cover for vigilantism. and knows how to fool a breathalyzer into thinking she’s drunk when she’s not

he feels bad for whoever her legal council is now. imagine having to deal with that.

turns out he’s her legal council now. whoops.

someone points out that they’re all sort of vigilantes

and someone--either Parker or Kate--goes, “we’re not vigilantes, we’re a vigilanTEAM”

harry has the most profound moment of “were it not for the laws of this land i would have slaughtered you where you stand” he’s ever had in his life

[traincat]

im pretty new to spider-man comics so i was wondering if their are any comics focused/centered on harry osborn or gwen stacy? or both of them? and if there is what are some of your favorites?

Hi anon! Welcome to Spider-Man comics. I have a Gwen Stacy reading list here. It’s relatively straightforward reading Spider-Man comics for Gwen -- unfortunately she’s alive for such a brief period of the canon that you can cover it fairly easily. I thought I had a reading list for Harry, but I can’t find it, and the one I’ve used before that was made by someone else appears to be gone now. So a quick Harry Osborn reading list! 

Harry, like Gwen, first appears in Amazing Spider-Man #31 -- they knew each other before the start of the series and were friends in high school. While there’s a pretty immediate push and pull between Peter and Gwen, Peter and Harry’s relationship isn’t immediately magnetic. He and Peter first begin to become friends in Amazing Spider-Man #39. In Amazing Spider-Man #40, Norman rants about his relationship with Harry to a captured Peter, with Norman’s words clearly contrasted against flashbacks: Norman claims he was a great father to Harry where the flashbacks show he was, at best, emotionally neglectful. In ASM #46, Harry asks Peter to move in with him while they attend college and Peter accepts. In ASM #74, Harry debuts a horrible mustache. I wouldn’t necessarily count this as important-important, but it’s just something everyone needs to see.

The mustache is very short lived. In ASM #96-98, cracks in Harry and Mary Jane’s relationship begin to show and Harry’s drug use increases, leading Peter to beat up his dealers, while Norman Osborn’s buried memories of the Green Goblin begin to reassert themselves. In ASM #119-122, Harry relapses, unwittingly setting in motion the events that would lead to Gwen’s death at the hands of Norman Osborn. Harry is in the throws of an overdose when Peter confronts him while searching for Norman immediately after Gwen’s death. The stress caused by Norman and Gwen’s deaths is evident in Harry in ASM #125. In ASM #135-137, Harry discovers Peter’s Spider-Man costume and plots his revenge, believing that Spider-Man killed his father. This is the first appearance of Harry’s own Green Goblin persona, and he’s institutionalized following a confrontation with Spider-Man.

Harry next appears in ASM #151, appearing to have lost or repressed all his memories related to Peter being Spider-Man. He first meets Liz Allan, his future wife and Peter’s former classmate, in ASM #156, at Betty Brant and Ned Leeds’ wedding. He and Liz start seeing each other in ASM #157 and announce their engagement in ASM #166. In ASM #172-180, Liz is arrested following the reappearance of her stepbrother, Mark “the Molten Man” Raxton. She subsequently breaks up with Harry and Harry goes a little off the rails before he and Liz reunite. Not too long after this point, Harry and Liz get married off page and move to New Jersey. In Spectacular Spider-Man #63, Mark Raxton returns and threatens the Allan-Osborn home. In Spectacular Spider-Man #85, Harry and Liz announce they’re expecting a child.

In ASM #249-251, while Peter is attending a party at Liz and Harry’s place, Harry receives a disturbing letter attempting to blackmail him for his father’s crimes. This story is a big step towards Harry accepting what his father did as the Green Goblin. In ASM #260-261, Liz and Mary Jane are taken hostage and Harry unsuccessfully attempts to rescue them, leading to one of my favorite Harry moments which I think showcases that, deep down inside, Harry is an extraordinarily gentle person -- and that this tendency towards gentleness hurts him as much as it is an admirable quality. I think it’s an important trait when comparing him to Peter, that Harry is essentially a weak person, and that that weakness isn’t inherently negative -- it might even, in different circumstances, make Harry a more admirable, definitely a more inherently gentle person than Peter, but that it doesn’t serve Harry in their circumstances and leads him to unfairly and unfavorably compare himself to Peter, much to his own detriment.

In ASM #263, Harry and Liz’s son Norman “Normie” Osborn Jr. is born. Things are quiet for Harry for a bit, until Marvel’s Inferno event begins. (It’s a good event, don’t worry. It’s primarily an X-Men event and I recommend the whole thing. Daredevil fights a vacuum cleaner in it.) The relevant Spider-Man issues for the whole event are ASM #311-313, Spectacular Spidey #146-148, and Web of Spider-Man #47-48. If your primary focus is Harry, you can stick to the relevant Spectacular and Web of issues -- this is an important moment in Harry’s history, where Norman’s influence and memories of the Green Goblin begin to reassert themselves on Harry, and at one point an Oscorp building is the scene of the Inferno action. In ASM #321, while helping Liz and Harry move into a new New York home, Harry invites Peter and Mary Jane, currently without a permanent address, to move into the top floor of the building. Liz’s brother the Molten Man makes a reappearance in Web of Spider-Man #62, where Harry offers him a job with Oscorp. In Web of Spider-Man #66-67, Harry dons the Green Goblin costume again, this time to try and be a hero before Spider-Man intervenes. 

Things at this point go downhill for Harry very quickly: he begins, depending on your interpretation, either hallucinating his father or having visions of his ghost in Spectacular Spider-Man #178-183, in a storyline called The Child Within. 

This is in my opinion one of the strongest Spider-Man stories ever written and a very critical storyline for Harry in particular, but as a warning it deals fairly explicitly with childhood sexual abuse of a minor character who is, I would say, deliberately paralleled against Harry and Harry’s experiences in childhood. It’s amazingly done -- J.M. DeMatteis wrote it and he’s one of my favorite Spider-Man writers -- but it is very, very intense. This leads to a confrontation between Peter and Harry, during which the apparition of Norman urges Harry to kill Peter, but Harry cannot. In all honesty, I would recommend reading from The Child Within straight through to Spectacular Spider-Man #200, which is Harry’s death. Harry’s not present in every issue, but he lingers over every page like a threat, and it’s some seriously well done comic book storytelling. But if you just want the issues where Harry is present: Spectacular Spider-Man #184, #188, #189, #190, #199. But whatever you do, don’t miss Spectacular Spider-Man #200. It’s hands down my favorite single issue of Spider-Man.

So at this point Harry’s dead. You’d think there wouldn’t be very much to read between this point and his resurrection in Amazing Spider-Man’s Brand New Day but there’s still a few points to hit: Harry’s video will is read in Spectacular Spider-Man #204, and there’s some elaborate Osborn family flashbacks in Spectacular Spider-Man Annual #14. Harry also arranged, although it was carried out posthumously, for the whole Robot Richard and Mary Parker debacle, which you can read using this guide from the Complete Marvel Chronology Order + Amazing Spider-Man #390. 

Harry returns to the pages of Spider-Man in Amazing Spider-Man #545, following the erasure of Peter and Mary Jane’s marriage that came with Peter’s deal with Mephisto in the wake of Civil War. Recently returned from Europe, Peter and Harry spend a lot of time together as Harry does his socialite thing and engages in a relationship with Lily Hollister, the daughter of a New York mayoral candidate. Relevant issues are ASM #546-549, #552, #554, #557-561, #565, #567-569, #571-573, #581-588. Amazing Spider-Man #595-599 is one of my favorite Harry Osborn stories, American Son. A rare can’t miss where Brand New Day is concerned. With Dark Reign in full swing, Norman Osborn is on top of the world and in charge of a new Avengers team -- and he wants Harry to come work for him. (Not to be confused with the three issue limited series called Amazing Spider-Man Presents: American Son, which Harry is in, but which I don’t necessarily recommend.)

Amazing Spider-Man Extra! #3′s “Nice Things” focuses on Harry’s childhood and on Harry in the wake of American Son. Harry also appears in ASM #602-605 (enjoy the plotline where he dates Peter’s hot cousin), #609-610, #621-622, #630, #642-647 -- which details the birth of Harry’s second child, Stanley Osborn. Harry disappears from the pages of Spider-Man for a bit at this point as everything goes completely to hell with the Superior Spider-Man plot, where Doc Ock steals Peter’s body. Harry makes a reappearance when Peter, who has taken back his body, is left to deal with the aftermath of Doc Ock’s actions, finding himself the CEO of a huge tech company. Harry goes to work for him. I don’t think any of this is particularly worth reading for Harry, certainly not in comparison to any of the previous comics mentioned, but Harry is present for Amazing Spider-Man (2015) #3, #7, #10-15, #25-28, ASM #789-791, and #797-800. Some of this is event territory, and a lot of it is just not very good. The one part of it I would recommend is ASM #789′s Harry scenes, which are about him and Liz getting back together. And that’s where we stand currently for Harry! Thanks a lot to Spencer’s run for neglecting him for like fifty whole issues now.

My other Harry and Gwen rec would be for the current Gwen Stacy series, written by Christos Gage and illustrated by Todd Nauck. This is my current favorite Spider-Man book on the shelves, even though we’ve only gotten two issues of it so far. It’s set during Gwen and Harry’s high school days, before they meet Peter, and fits perfectly into the Spider-Man canon of the time. The two issues released have had a big focus on Gwen and Harry’s relationship, with Gwen running for class president and Harry as her campaign manager/hype man. 

Please return to the shelves, Gwen Stacy solo.

[hellzyeahwebwielingessays]

Did MJ try to make Spidey retire?

Short answer: Never when she was in character and never unjustifiably!

The number of times I’ve heard people claim this is unbelievable. I’m going to settle this shit once and for all. Feel free to share this with anyone making these claims.

The simplest way to do this would be to run through things chronologically.

Unless anybody can bring up other examples, off the top of my head I can recall only three times before ‘One More Day’ where MJ floated the idea of Peter retiring.

The first time was in ASM #283. However the important context of this is that Peter himself  has already resolved to quit as soon as he is done with his latest case involving his friend Flash Thompson.

However further important context is that Peter has resolved to retire even earlier in ASM #275 and in that issue it was MJ (after learning his origin story) who encouraged him to NOT quit.

An issue later she was back to being against his work as Spider-Man.

However, many issues around this era (which was before  they got married!) depict MJ flip-flopping on her feelings and the reasons why boil down to her being concerned for Peter’s safety.

At which point why is MJ being out of order in desiring him to  retire? She loves this man and doesn’t want him to be hurt but also understands why he does what he does and it’s that fundamental heroism that is a major reason for why she loves him. This is again summed up in Web of Spider-Man #6.

Next up we have an example of when MJ didn’t  ask Peter to quit. But people always treat it as though she did so we’re going to address it anyway.

It stems from the clusterfuck that was ‘Maximum Carnage’.

Let’s give you that all-important context.

In Spider-Man Unlimited #1 Pete and MJ are attending Harry Osborn’s funeral. Harry died in chronologically the story right before ‘Maximum Carnage’ so this is a very fresh wound; he died merely days earlier.

Prior to his death, Harry had been waging months of psychological warfare on the Parkers and even tried to kill Peter. His attempt actually almost killed MJ and his own son Normie. During this whole time Harry’s wife (now widow) Liz Allan had been pushed to her wits end too.

As a result Mary Jane is reluctant to talk to Liz.

Also, for months now (starting with Carnage’s debut actually) MJ had taken up smoking to cope with the stress of their lives, chiefly her concern for Peter’s well-being. This topic and her behaviour at the funeral gets raised when they return home.

The talk zeroes in on the risks to Peter’s life and how he and MJ got lucky with Harry. MJ asks Peter to take a break for a week or two.

Not retire permanently.

Not take an indefinite hiatus.

Not even take a break for a month or definitely two weeks.

She literally asks for 7-14 Spider-Man free days so they can de-stress and catch their breaths in the wake of a serious crisis and loss.

Peter promises he will.

Unfortunately Carnage has just broken free of the authorities and formed a gang.

For the sake of argument let’s say MJ doesn’t know much about Carnage’s cronies. She just knows he has back up.

However, she absolutely knows about Carnage.

As his name implies, is an incredibly lethal foe. You know Venom, that guy who’s famous for being a bigger badder version of Spider-Man? Yeah Carnage is an even more powerful version of that  guy. Spider-Man one-on-one is physically incapable to defeating him and had to team up with Venom to do it. Even then they actually weren’t strong enough to beat him physically because Carnage is stronger than the pair of them combined!

Making matters worse Carnage’s whole body is extremely durable to injury, with blunt force not being the most effective way of fighting him. His forte is being able to quickly generate a large arsenal of sharp edged weapons from his body; think the T-1000.

This skillset is appropriate given how Carnage prior to obtaining any of these super powers was already a highly violent and sadistic serial killer who killed purely for the pleasure of it. How violent and sadistic? 11 life sentences merely for hi known  crimes. That’s how violent and sadistic. And again, this was when he was just a normal guy.

Oh, and on top of all that he doesn’t trigger Peter’s Spider Sense, making him immeasurably more vulnerable to an already overwhelming powerful foe.

He is possibly the single most physically dangerous Spider-Man villain of all!

This isn’t idle little trivia about the character by the way. It is key to his whole concept and was laid out explicitly in his original appearance. In fact, in that first appearance he was so powerful that Peter was helpless and forced to team up with Venom, who lived to kill him!

Even when backed up by Cloak and Dagger, Spider-Man’s ribs take a pounding from Carnage, Shriek and Doppelganger. It is in this injured state he returns home to a concerned and naturally  upset Mary Jane.

She then begins an argument with Peter when he tells her he plans on going back out there.

Let’s sum up so far.

MJ has been stressed for months prior to this to the point where she’s started smoking.

Peter and her nearly died mere days ago because their friend went psycho.

Said friend died in front of them.

Their other friend, his wife (who MJ was naturally going to relate more to since they were both the wives of costumes folks) is now a grieving widow.

MJ’s husband promised her he’d take a break for a little while so they can recover a bit.

Her husband then almost immediately went back on that promise.

His risking his life again against a bad guy who’s all but guaranteed to kill him if he fights him alone.

Last time MJ’s husband beat this guy he did it with the help of a powerful nasty piece of work who wanted to kill him. Even then they only just won. That’s how dangerous Carnage is.

This time Peter is fighting him alone, whilst injured, and Carnage has two  people backing him up.

So if it wasn’t a guarantee that Peter was dead meat before, now she might as well get ahead by planning the funeral.

THAT is the context behind MJ’s rage and desire for Peter to not be Spider-Man temporarily  in this story.

However, noticeably by the end of the story she’s changed her mind!

We then jump forward to the ‘Clone Saga’, specifically a mini-series called Spider-Man: the Final Adventure.

The context behind this story was that Peter, upon believing he was a clone and that Ben Reilly was in truth the original Peter Parker, had decided to retire and support a pregnant Mary Jane.

To this end they had both left New York but due to a lab experiment involving Peter’s blood a serial killer had mutated into a spiderlike monster. With no other heroes around Peter suits up again as Spider-Man to the dismay of the heavily pregnant Mary Jane who wants him to NOT do that.

Is this MJ being not as understanding as she could be, maybe even selfish to some degree?

Sure.

Is it also Peter being in the wrong too?

Also yes, the story brilliantly points that out.

But more significantly prior to this story the Parkers had been through Hell.

In less than a year (in-universe):

Peter’s robot parents had turned up pretending to be the genuine articles

They’d betrayed Peter, breaking his heart

Their close friend Harry Osborn had gone mad

Harry and used his knowledge of Peter’s identity to torment the Parkers

Aunt May had gone into a coma

Peter had suffered a mental breakdown

Ben Reilly and other clones had shown up (including clones of Pter’s murdered lover Gwen Stacy)

Aunt May has passed away

Peter was framed for murder

MJ had been targeted for abduction more than once

They’d discovered MJ was pregnant and that the baby might have serious health issues due to Peter’s mutated DNA

Peter was revealed as a clone and had a second mental breakdown

During his mental distress Peter had accidentally smacked MJ across the room

The Jackal had nearly killed everyone on the planet

The Jackal mind controlled Peter into trying to murder MJ

MJ had nearly died due to complications with the pregnancy

That isn’t even everything but all that stuff had been happening across the previous three years of publication alone. And as I said in-universe it was less than a year.

So MJ and Peter had been through a LOT of horrible and stressful things that had put them both on the edge and sometimes over it. Most of that stuff was connected to Peter’s life as Spider-Man that MJ always had mixed feelings about at best. And now after Peter FINALLY retired and their lives were blissfully normal, allowing them to catch their breaths and do some much needed healing, Peter is coming out of retirement…When it isn’t 100% necessary for him to do so.

And all this is happening during MJ’s second or third trimester when she is very obviously heavily pregnant. This often can be a stressful time for pregnant people generally and of course sometimes mood swings occur due to hormones firing all over the place. And MJ is dealing with super powered spider hormones on top of all this. With a baby that is a total lottery because nobody on Earth has ever been pregnant with a half human/half spider powered baby before.

Given that she is dealing with ALL that is it really unreasonable for her to desire for Peter to simply continue to be retired.

She isn’t demanding he give up being a hero.

She is angry and demanding that Peter CONTINUE the choice he already made about giving up.

Which is not the same thing and she was okay with him going back into the hero game after he pregnancy concluded.

Finally we come to the Howard Macke/John Byrne run on Spider-Man where MJ again desired Peter’s retirement.

Here is the thing, MJ once again was desiring Peter STAY retired as opposed to demanding he outright quit.

Moreover the Mackie/Byrne era was a period where MJ, Peter and other characters were often written incredibly out of character practically systemically. For example Flash Thompson behind Peter’s back literally made fun of the fact that his girlfriend Gwen Stacy and his wife Mary Jane were dead (at the time MJ’s death was faked by a stalker).

Peter and MJ were actually written in this reductive way back during this run as part of an editorial policy to break up the marriage.

The thinking at the time was to make their relationship unlikable in order to make people glad for when they got rid of it via killing off Mary Jane and leaving Peter single.

So essentially not only was MJ and Peter out of character back during this era but they were literally being sabotaged so readers would hate them.

Between that and how OOC (out of character) the characterizations were back then this by rights should simply not count in any analysis of the characters.

Now, there have been instanced post-OMD of MJ clearly wanting, asking, demanding, etc. for Peter to quit.

But as with the Mackie/Byrne era (or Black Cat from 2009-2018) these are out of character and should not truly count.

So when written in character and when there are not extenuating circumstances (like pregnancies) involved, Mary Jane would actually not ask Peter to quit and never truly has.

[harlskeener]

@electronicprince asked:

They really rushed the Osborns. Imo TASM should have built Harry up over multiple movies, into a villain that we can still feel for. They actually got so far with making him sympathetic in tasm2 it's even more of a shame he suddenly becomes a monster at the end. Gwen could have died in different ways. Tbh had Norman passed away at a later point, he could even still be responsible for it without being the Goblin, considering his power. Corrupt rich CEO is already a pretty reputable villain type.

i know sony punished tasm for not succeeding, and i think it’s really frustrating considering it’s their fault? they should have built the series better.

and because no one but myself asked -- here is essentially my ideal tasm timeline, 4 tasm movies, a black cat spinoff, and the rest of the sony marvel cinematic compromise that i am, in fact, posting in the tags because i put in hours of thought into this, and i think i deserve good things like attention:

tasm 1: introduce norman. keep the lizard as the main villain but introduce norman sooner. even just hint at his existence. mention that the ceo is still struggling with his sickness; mention the oscorp heir in europe; you can do this through news reports.

tasm 2: after the lizard happened, oscorp is under scrutinisation. it comes to light that oscorp had okay'd these kinds of testing, so oscorp had to get rid of it. norman was brought under light for negligence of what was happening to his company and argued it was because of his sickness that he wasn't in the right frame of mind to put a cap on the events of tasm 1. and from left stage: harry osborn! harry is “temporarily” taking over while norman “recovers”. however, turns out, as norman tells harry, that he's dying, and that harry will one day have to take over. harry, in shock, is displeased because he wanted to escape oscorp.

keep max as the villain, becoming electro. i have no real problems with the way that he becomes electro, i think it was an interesting adaptation from the comics. on the side, norman has been trying to figure out a cure for his curse, stumbling upon spiderman through watching the news. while harry is on a goose chase trying to take over oscorp while hanging out with peter. however, harry's symptoms start showing and progressively worsening over the course of the film. harry gets tested and finds out he also has the “osborn curse”. terrified, he tells his dad, only to find out that his dad has known all this time and was deliberately keeping it from him. when harry tries to get angry, norman manipulates him saying that he was trying to find a cure for them, and he might just have it. norman tells harry that if spiderman gives his blood, they'll be able to engineer a cure.

we, then, of course, have the sequence where harry tells peter about him dying too. and, as the story goes, have spiderman refuse to give harry his blood. outraged, harry tries to figure out another cure even as his dad grows angered by the audacity of spiderman, knowing that spiderman became spiderman through oscorp. harry searches through all of oscorp's files before coming upon max at ravencroft institute being tortured -- i mean, studied, my bad -- and is understandably livid. menken storms in like he did in canon, removing him as ceo and saying that if he tries to do anything -- they will release all the framed information that it was harry's fault for what happened to max.

felicia tells harry that they never got rid of everything -- that they can still find a way to cure the illness. however, he'll need a way in, and so harry frees max from ravencroft. he gets the armor and the spider venom as courtesy of helping max break him back into oscorp. felicia reveals that all of this was the result of menken when the board storm in, reinstating harry as the ceo because this is MY cinematic universe.

harry gives the suit and the venom to his dad, norman adamantly telling him to give him the venom. harry gives it to him, and norman nearly dies; harry puts him into the suit, and norman starts healing. instead of the goblin being shoved in at the end, it's this red herring moment where norman glares ominously at spiderman on a news report, breaking the monitor when it shows footage of him swinging around.

electro causes another blackout, and peter and gwen both stop electro the very same way. gwen doesn't die just for timing purposes, so instead: gwen goes off to europe and tells peter that she won't let him just abandon his life here for her because that's stupid. his aunt may is here, and spiderman is here, and she's not going to let him throw everything away just to be with her, no matter how much she loves him. new york needs spiderman.

five months later, harry is on television doing a speech at oscorp talking about the tragedy of max dillon, saying that oscorp swears it will do better to let all of its employees' voices be heard to avoid something like this from ever happening again. norman turns the tv off and looks at gustav fiers and talks about the team they plan to build to get rid of spiderman. fiers starts with sytsevich (aka rhino). peter, on the phone with gwen, sees rhino and stops him, gwen's speech echoing in the ending and what not.

tasm 3: we START with a faroff shot of the clocktower and peter's voice layered sobbing. we do a time skip backwards to show how we got to this point. peter's going to school, and everything's all good. he's in college, and he's walking when he bumps into one (1) mj watson. he swings by oscorp to see harry hard at work. they go hang out again, and when peter brings up spiderman, harry's face hardens in irritation. peter tries to calm harry down about the whole blood thing, and harry gets mad as they argue that peter doesn't know what it's like to know you're /dying/. harry saying the only reason his dad even managed to live was because of the suit -- not the venom. peter argues that the blood could have done the same thing as harry retaliates saying that they could have found a way to reengineer a cure. they do a whole, “look. i really don't want to fight.” thing as harry just sighs and says he has to go.

harry's still looking for a cure and trying to manage oscorp while norman's creating his sinister six. publicly, norman is slowly recovering, but has entrusted oscorp to harry for publicity points -- and yes: ratings have gone up! spiderman, during a fight with some baddies, knocks a crewman on the u.s.s. bulldog, morris bench, into the water by accident. spiderman tried to help him, but morris attacks him. spiderman ties him up for the police to find him, but instead of the police finding him, we see footsteps as morris looks down to see gustav fiers.

with hydro-man (morris bench) being added to the rockband, we have the sinister five so far -- rhino (imprisoned... again), the lizard (imprisoned), green goblin (unappeared, as norman waits for his moment), hydro-man, and gustav fiers himself as the gentleman. gustav fiers comes up with this really elaborate plan to lure spiderman that works. spiderman gets beat up by them all (gustav having let the lizard and rhino out) and only narrowly escapes. he tries to bandage himself, but does a really shoddy job of it. we are again, reminded of gwen as he stares longingly at a picture of them together.

a new day of being normal as peter parker as gwen calls peter since it's time for winter break, and she says she's coming home to see her family and him. it's becoming harder for peter to celebrate peter parker and spiderman. he's been struggling with school versus heroism, maybe he even almost missed a final! either way, the school year finishes, and gwen arrives in new york. he's out swinging to stop crime while we see gwen waiting patiently to see him. when he finally joins gwen, she teases him that it's been an hour. they go hang out and eat somewhere. they run into mj, who greets peter, and mj and gwen get to meet each other and do not have an instant jealousy thing going (even if that's absolutely something sony would have done). peter tells gwen about the sinister ... five, not knowing what to do. she gives him advice and also tells him to talk to harry after he mentions that he and harry still haven't been back to normal since the whole spiderman rejecting harry thing. she tells him that maybe there IS a way to cure harry if they isolate the genotype in the spider venom that helps with rapid healing.

they go to study it, and it takes weeks. we get a montage of it that is put to music, combined with fighting sequences of spiderman, as well as harry slowly getting sicker -- hell, maybe even coughing up blood if you want to get the drama going. we get some of aunt may telling peter to slow it down because he's pushing himself too much. some of harry and felicia bonding and mirroring because harry's staying late at the office.

on the night before gwen is supposed to leave, they finally figure out a cure. they race to oscorp to try to see harry; felicia lets them in, and harry looks up to see them run in. he seems confused but also wary before taking the cure. right when he hugs both of them, the glass breaks, and they all fall over. peter tells gwen to get harry and felicia out of there, and so they drag harry and felicia to the labs to stay safe before peter's running off. the scene cuts to him swinging outside. right as he's about to swing onto a lamp post, the lamp post explodes -- and we get the reveal that electro is still alive.

gwen says she's going to find peter as harry and felicia protest, but harry's in too much pain from his illness because he'd have spent the entire movie in every scene he is drinking. gwen's running out of oscorp when she gets kidnapped by the green goblin who has now since deduced spiderman is peter after literally the whole movie has been coincidences upon coincidences, and it's not like spiderman is actually that much of a secret identity for peter.

he takes her to the clocktower and has a city-wide signal that spiderman is to meet him at the clocktower if he wants gwen alive. we get a fighting sequence of spiderman fighting all the sinister six baddies up until he finally arrives. by this time, his mask is already pretty ripped up with parts of his face showing. green goblin taunts spiderman saying to take off his mask and die as the coward he is. he goes into this speech about how the osborns cared about the parkers like family, and that after his parents died -- peter WAS family to him and all that, and yet he and his father betrayed him!!!! the spider venom was supposed to be a cure!! while peter fights back and calls him out on his bullshit that all norman cared about was power and weaponising the cure and all that !!!

and we get a moment of it being like, you think you know pain !!! i'll show you pain! and is like you can either stop me or save her, and norman throws her off the clocktower, and we get that really cinematic moment where peter goes to save her and all that, but he can't, and she's dead in his arms like the opening. it's a fade to black to her funeral as peter vows he's going to avenge her. it then cuts to the gustav and norman in their secret evil lair, where gustav is like. hm. what next? and it focuses on norman who is just like, it's time for phase 2. and bam. ending.

we then would get a black cat spinoff / origin story!! this origin story would brake away from the comics to fit the storyline (as all comics to movies do). felicia's dad would still be a burglar who would eventually get arrested. the movie would start out with her visiting him and all that. she doesn't have the best relationship with her father and wanted to step out of being the daughter of infamous cat burglar, walter hardy. that's why she started working at oscorp. we get a sequence of her working and being a badass to all the board who work under her because harry meant it when he said that; and since this movie says harry and felicia friendship RIGHTS, they have a friendly banter before he's telling her to go home, that she's always avoiding going home even when she should rest.

she teases him about the same before unwillingly leaving. her boyfriend ryan isn't the kindest when she gets home, implying that he never is, and when she's not in the mood -- he hits her and assaults her. cut to her in the bathroom crying before she's breaking the mirror. in the reflection, she stares blankly at herself. she calls out of work and spends the whole day cleaning the mess that is their apartment before she spots a picture of her and her dad that got shattered in the struggle with ryan. remembering how her father told her to never be a victim, to always reach for greatness, she decides she's Done With This Shit.

she starts training herself in acrobatics and various fighting styles in a training montage mixed in with scenes of her being the Best at work as always. harry comments saying she seems different, and when she asks a bad different?, he just shrugs and says a good different. when she finally does a really elaborate move, she smirks as the camera focuses on her before it cuts to a rainy alley.

she has been studying his patterns, and she knows he goes to the same bar every friday. and because it's sony, and we get to do this sort of thing: she DOES get to kill her abuser!!!!! right as he gets into his car, she's sitting in the backseat and strangles him to death before burning the car. it's in the Bad Place of Town, so no one really gave a shit about him anyways, and for the sake of plot, it ends up on the news, but the police are incompetent and blame it on a gang dispute.

when we cut back to felicia, she's doing her day-to-day at the office, but it's as if her energy has been killed. her vibes are gone! after finally getting her revenge, she thought it would be fulfilling enough, but it isn't -- years of abuse will do that, of course, but also: she just feels so empty, y'know? so. she dons the suit again, and she decides, huh. let's go crazy, go stupid. at first, she's just killing abusers before she starts doing some theft herself.

my thoughts on this movie left, but i'd imagine she starts a robin hood scenario where she steals from the rich and gives to the poor. the entirety of the movie has references to spiderman and the other villains as well, etc, but yeah. in her life as felicia, she convinces harry to start a philanthropic organisation to support domestic violence survivors. the rights!

and, because i lost all braincells, tasm 4 would be the last sequel of the spiderman series, and it'd be dedicated to stopping norman and the sinister six. peter and mj get closer as peter grieves gwen, but mj and peter don't get together in the end. harry and peter try to rekindle their friendship, but peter is so angry at norman as norman takes over as ceo having been “fully healed”, a miracle! harry tries to a nice voice of reason now that gwen is gone, seeing as he inherited the braincell after being cured. in the end, peter stops norman after arresting the sinister six throughout the entirety of the movie, but norman kills himself to avoid going to jail. harry grieves his father and right as he goes to oscorp, guess who's there? gustav fiers! he gives a doctored video of the night norman was killed which frames spiderman as his killer. harry, in shock and anger, is all like: why are you showing me this? and gustav tells harry that his father wanted him to have something before he died. he passes the suit helm to harry, and the shot ends with harry staring at the helm as gustav walks off. whether this be mid-movie, or the ending, we get harry becoming the goblin.

if it’s mid-movie, the rest of the movie is dedicated to stopping harry.

and then we get the rest of the spin offs !!!

like this layout isn’t even that perfect, but i genuinely feel like. basically my whole thing is that if they had shown harry’s empathy before deciding to make him the goblin and chosen to not rob him of said empathy, we’d be better off.

[ojerasgigantes]

LIST OF THE BEST FANFICS OF ALL TIME (according to me)

Since we are in quarentine and because of that I’ve reverted to my 2014 tumblr self and have started indulging in fanfics again, and since I’ve read ALOT of them, I decided to make a list and compile the best fanfiction I have ever read. This list is not in any type of ranking or affiliated to one specific fandom, so it’s a bit of a mess. (I will also direct you to the author’s AO3 page, and tumblr if I can find it).

Why do I think this fics are the BEST of the BEST? Well, either, they could be turned into a book and become a best seller by simply changing names, or I think the author has a HUGE potential in becoming a published author. 

Also if you guys think there are fics that are on the level of this ones please PLEASE rec them to me, I don’t care what fandom they are from.

THINGS HAVE GOTTEN CLOSER TO THE SUN by Starseas

Fandom: One Direction Pairings: Harry Styles/Louis Tomlinson, Liam Payne/Zayn Malik Genre/tags: Future fic, end of the world AU Rating: Mature Words: 49k   Summary:  When a solar flare is announced to end the world in twelve days, Harry reunites with the people that he used to know better than the back of his own hand.

Notes: I no longer read fanfiction involving real people, but this still remains on being one of the best fics I’ve ever read so I had to put it here. So, first of all, I LOVE this author, I used to follow her on tumblr and read everything she published. If I’m not mistaken her tumblr is deserted and she hasn0t posted anything in a long time, but I sincerily hope that she decided to move to writing and publish original works. Second of all, this fic is phenomenal, she somehow manges to portray a sense of despair under the whole romance plot. I cried in the end.

IRREPARABLE by aslightstep (WIP, abandoned?)

Fandom: Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) Pairings: Tony Stark/Steve Rogers Genre/tags: Fix it Fic, Canon compliant Rating: General Audiences Words: 131k Summary: Forgiveness is a journey, or so Tony was maybe told a long time ago. He doesn't know about any of that and doesn't particularly care to. In the wake of civil war, the Avengers remain, as do their enemies. And Tony Stark rebuilds, as always.He destroys the phone, he burns the letter. But he can't (he won't) eliminate Steve Rogers from his mind.

Notes: Ok, I know I shouldn’t be recommending any abandonded works, but I am recommending this one anyway because the characters depiction are on point!! Tony’s stuborness really shows and it’s all so... realistic? Like it could have actually happened in the comics or in the MCU. It’s a beautiful slow burn, like extremely slow burn, and I just wish the author didn’t left it behind.

THE KUBBLER-ROSS THEORY by antivenom

Fandom: The Amazing Spiderman, Deadpool Pairings: Gwen Stacy/Peter Parker, Peter Parker/Wade Wilson (barely)  Genre/tags: Drama, Canon compliant, Grief Recovery Rating: Teen and Up Audiences Words: 80k Summary: Peter deals with a loss that immobilizes him and permeates through every drawn breath. In which his grief is a visceral abstraction that he can touch, that he can feel. And in which, with a little help, with time, with acceptance, with anger, with sadness, with Wade, he learns how to live in a world without her.

Notes: The way this author describes and deals with the subject of grief is so real. It’s amazing the way she portrays Peter way of coping with his guilt, her death, and everything in his life. It is incomparable to any other fic or BOOK I have ever read. Also this is the first part of a series, so I’d definitely read it if you are into really good slowburn Spideypool.

BRIGHT HAIR ABOUT THE BONE by MissDisoriental

Fandom: Hannibal (TV) Pairings: Will Graham/Hannibal Lecter Genre/tags: A/B/O Dynamics, case fic Rating: Explicit Words: 484k Summary: In a world where omegas are little more than trophies to be bought and sold, Will Graham has done the unthinkable by escaping a forced bonding. Already in high demand as a profiler, Will's determined to find freedom on his own terms. For Hannibal Lecter the outlook is far more straightforward: a slow, systematic seduction of the most uniquely captivating omega he's ever encountered. As the shadow of a new and terrifying serial killer falls over Baltimore, the stage is set to redefine all accepted meanings of passion, temptation, horror and beauty – and to discover the ecstasy of a genuine love crime.

Notes: Yes, this fic is half a million words, no I don’t regret staying awake two days in a row just to finish it. Also, yes, I know it’s ABO. I usually don’t read ABO because I don’t like mpreg, but I made an exception for this one because it’s just that good. The way this author writes is so in sync with the series vibe. The descriptions, the way Hannibal speaks and acts, the way Will goes about the situation, this is just amazing.

TWIST AND SHOUT by gabriel and standbyme (@chubbyhawke)

Fandom: Supernatural Pairings: Castiel/Dean Winchester Genre/tags: 60′s AU, War Rating: Explicit Words: 97k Summary: What begins as a transforming love between Dean Winchester and Castiel Novak in the summer of 1965 quickly derails into something far more tumultuous when Dean is drafted in the Vietnam War. Though the two both voice their relationship is one where saying goodbye is never a real truth, their story becomes fraught with the tragedy of circumstance. In an era where homosexuality was especially vulnerable, Twist and Shout is the story of the love transcending time, returning over and over in its many forms, as faithful as the sea.

Notes: Obviously you don’t need an introduction to this one being that it’s the 2nd most kudosed work in AO3 and the most famous fanfiction in the Supernatural fandom. This fic BROKE me, like, actually full on sobbing BROKE me (my dad thought I was about to have a panic attack). It’s an understatement to say I recommend it. I don’t know where this authors are but I sincerly hope they become published one day.

MURDER WITH THE DEVIL AND FRIENDS by MindfulWrath (@mindfulwrath)

Fandom: Achievement Hunter, Rooster Teeth Pairings: Micheal Jones/Ryan Haywood Genre/tags: Western AU, Fake AH crew AU, Murder Mystery, horror Rating: Teen and Up Audiences Words: 205k Summary: Deputy Michael's been working in the little shithole town of Achievement City for a little over a year now. Things have been pretty decent so far (apart from that one creepy coworker), but they're about to get a lot more interesting, and a lot more dangerous.

Notes: Remember when I said i no longer read fanfics about real people? Well, this is, yet again, the exception. This fic just kept popping on my dashboard and after the 8th time I saw it I decided “fuck it”, and opened the link.  Also, remember when I said this ranking isn’t in any specific order? I lied because this is my favorite fanfiction of all time, and I think it’s the best one out there. This fic just get’s under your skin. You feel that somethings wrong from the begining, the mood it sets in just the first paragraph pulls you in and doens’t let you go until it’s done. I have NEVER got so much into any book or fanfic like I have gotten lost in this one. How is it possible that I manage to hate and love Ryan so much in this depiction of him?  This is also the first part of a trilogy called Devil’s Clockwork, and the rest is just as good as this one. Mindfulwrath, I hope you are reading this, and I hope you know how good of a writer you are, and I hope you publish some day, I’ll be the first one to buy anything you publish.