#also what even is the problem with preferring mlm?

[arcanefujoshi]

people on twitter literally need to unlearn hatred this is dire. what the fuck is happening there fr

[olderthannetfic]

Quote from a post: "the things created within fandom aren’t real - an individual fic can’t cause actual, material harm to a reader, even if it contains tropes that would be harmful or distressing if they happened in that reader’s real life; an author’s use of certain tropes or interest in certain characters is not indicative of their actual morals and values in real life; thought crimes are not real crimes - but fanfiction is produced by human beings who are themselves products of the societies and communities in which we all live, and these societies and communities all have flaws and failings.

which is to say, those of us who prefer to read male friendships as romantic do need to be aware that, no matter how enlightened on gender and its foibles we think ourselves to be, we are nonetheless influenced as modern humans by a modern tendency to discourage platonic physical and emotional closeness between men - especially straight men - on the grounds that two men having this sort of relationship is inherently queer and, in being queer, implicitly sexual [an understanding of queerness which is another powerful societal influence on our thought, even if we know we don’t agree with it.]"

Okay this is from a big post from a big fandom account here please don't speculate who it is this is not about them specifically and has nothing to do with them i genuinely respect this poster and they are nothing but a supportive space and don't have any anti-nonsense. But I wanna talk about this point that they are making "the society is queering straight friendships" which is something also the anti-fujoshi crowd is saying and honestly I can't agree with that point.

I don't think its us the people who make fandom are queering the relationships between two straight men but the patriarchal system we live under and straight men themselves are doing it to themselves. They can't show love and affection to each other lest other dudes will call them gay not because there are secret fujoshis around that sexualize them. They can be vulnerable period lest everyone calls them whiney like women. I feel like (and most of the things I say here are vibes, not facts) men having close friendships with other men are green flags, and most women are excited to see men who have exact the strong relationship that are portrayed in media.

I'm confused by this talking point to be honest. I also understand that by saying everything I said above I sort of said the same thing as the original poster. In a sense that society is the problem here and we live in a society as we know, but... idk I feel like what they say is "we live in a society where everyone by default is sexualizing male friendships" which sounds like the standard anti-fujoshi talking point to me.

And regarding the point of romantic relationships being prioritized over platonic— I feel like is a complete bullshit to be honest.

Romantic relationships are prioritized over platonic ones across the board. Straight couples leave their straight friends behind when they get further into relationship too! I don't understand this impulse to constantly talk about romantic vs platonic thing when its about queer ships, and maybe there is somewhere straight ship discourse about romantic vs plantonic but its not as big as with mlm or wlw ships.

And honestly even with this take I feel like romantic relationships are also not prioritized but rather are more encouraged. And there is difference between encouraging and actually prioritizing I think.

(I want to add here that I'm not aroace so maybe its a blindspot and from that identitys point of view the dynamics might be different)

In reality I think both are equally hard to obtain and maintain. I always felt like the fandom being so shipping focused was not about people being hellbent on romance but just the fact that good love stories are few and far between both in fiction and IRL and we can't help but try to make something at least remotely good, or interesting or satisfying.

Again, my main problems is: 1) I don't agree that romantic relationships are prioritized to that high degree over the friendships like everyone claims. 2) I don't think that every single person is actually a secret fujoshi waiting to make any straight male friendship gay. 3) Fandoms are romantic ship centric because people just want more narratively satisfying romantic stories that are underrepresented in media (or they don't get to experience it IRL) rather than they are vehemently against platonic ships.

I don't know this hopefully came out coherent.

--

The person who wrote that sounds like a pretentious twatwaffle, and I am so sick of seeing otherwise reasonable people spout that crap. That's been true since the 90s and probably before.

The reality is that Western culture enshrines male friendship as the highest form of affection possible. This goes back to the Classical world. And, yes, they were probably fucking too back then, but the thing that all of the media is about is friendship.

The entire backbone of Western culture is built on the idea that men are spiritually, biologically, inherently more capable than women of this highest form of relationship. Romance is the big thing for women because we're not eligible for The Pure And Holy Friendship Between Two Men.

The epidemic of male loneliness is real, but we haven't gotten any less "Bros before hos". Fandom and m/m shipping behavior are irrelevant to this.

--

Furthermore, fandom has plenty of people who don't focus on shipping.

AO3 was built by slashers, so ship type is a top-level category, and the site obviously signals that it's about shipping and particularly non heterosexual shipping since you can filter out het.

Past sites often had more metadata that wasn't around ships (e.g. FFN's genres that work like bookstore genres) and almost never let you get rid of het. You might have been able to filter in The Gay, but straight stuff was literally unmarked.

~We do need to be aware of~

Bite me.

This naggy phrase is everywhere, and nothing good comes of it.

The only thing we need to be aware of is that Blorbo is great and s/he should be mashed together with Other Blorbo. If that's in gen adventures, you do you.

[starcurtain]

I read your "PhaiDei isn't like other hoyo mlm pairs" posts and I'm so confused because I didn't see it in the main story. AT ALL. Like I'm the n⁰1 "please keep queerbaiting us hoyo, I understand there is censorship" and even then I only thought of them as friends?? I was literally playing through amphoreus and saying "omg they're besties :)" I don't know why this has happened. I have to rewatch the missions with the yaoi glasses on. What is wrong with me

My fav hoyo ship is xingyun and one thing they recently did is that they made Xingqiu explicitly blush because Chongyun was flattering him, which I found very cute and thought to bring up since you mentioned it in your post

I also have a personal problem with renheng because Dan heng has stated multiple times he wants to move on from his past and that he isn't the same person as dan feng (maybe he was, at first, but he certainly isn't now), but I also dislike it because enemies to lovers isn't my cup of tea and Blade left a terrible first impression regarding Dan Heng when I met him

Now that I think about it, maybe I didn't see PhaiDei when I played it for a similar reason I didn't see RenHeng (I was genuinely surprised they shipped them together bc they seem so toxic to me, and after reading a bit about it, I came to the conclusion of the last paragraph regarding that ship), and that is that I really want to smooch Phainon myself, maybe not as much as I want to smooch Dan Heng but... lol

Ha ha well wanting to keep the character for yourself mighttttt influence things, yes. 😂

As for not seeing Phaidei, may I ask what language audio you play in? I play in Chinese, but I was recently watching a friend stream in English and I was genuinely shocked at Mydei's voice acting. No hate to the voice actor at all, because I think he has a very fine voice, but I feel like the voice director must have told him to like... sound pissed all the time. I was genuinely so confused listening to the lines because the delivery in Chinese seems completelyyyyy different in many places, and it feels to me that English Mydei has a more aggressive vibe in a lot of scenes. Maybe this affected your read of the characters a bit, if you play in English?

Love me some Xingyun, very cute ship. I was surprised by them adding the blush in the recent event! I think they were able to "get away with it" so to speak because the Traveler was there too; they can use the Traveler as their plausible deniability. But that scene was definitely grade A+ Xingyun bait, for real for real. (And the scene where Xingqiu said he'd have to run away to Chongyun's house and stay for weeks. I was like, "Sir, that's called eloping" lmao).

I fully respect your opinion on Renheng; "you ruined my life and I'm not over it" is definitely not a dynamic for everyone. My opinion is the dead opposite though, funnily enough; I love Renheng! ...But I tried to care about Yingxing/Dan Feng and I just have zero interest in it at all. I think I'm the only one in the entire fandom that prefers Renheng to Yingfeng lol. Enemies to lovers is my jam, although I can definitely see why not everyone likes it.

May your account be blessed with lots of Phainon to blow smooches to in the future!

[maxdibert]

I am 100% a Marauders hater. I find James, Sirius, Remus, and Peter to be absolutely unbearable for what they did to Severus. I despise any and all ships pairing him up with them because of that. In addition, I am also critical of Lily because of her permissive attitude. I am also a live and let live person who, for the most part, am pretty okay with all ships. I also love to read posts criticizing a character's flaws, actions, and the way they are written.

However, with that being said, I find it quite odd when people who are so quick to villainize Lily and criticize Snily are the first ones to moan about how hot Snirius/Snupin/etc. are, despite the Marauders being objectively worse because they are his abusers. It's undeniably misogynistic to criticize the woman shipped with him who is factually the lesser evil—not that you CAN'T criticize her—yet excuse the actions of the (male) bullies for the ship. It comes across as fetishizing MLM relationships—a symptom of homophobia. Perhaps it steps from the fan's jealousy that Lily Evans is the only female character that Severus canonically likes, and they are angry at her for "standing in the way", as many fujoshis have that problematic mindset. The hypocrisy of these people who claim they are moral yet act misogynistic and homophobic is insane. They should just admit that they are misogynistic and homophobic. At least then they are actually being honest instead of pretending to be progressive.

What do you think of this problem that often plagues the Harry Potter fandom?

I think you’re mixing things up that really have nothing to do with each other.

For example, I’ve seen people who can’t stand Lily Evans but still enjoy reading Snily. Maybe not in a romantic way, but platonically, they enjoy those kinds of stories, or even say that Snily fics are the only context in which they can tolerate Lily. Liking the dynamic between two characters in a fic, seeing potential there, or simply wanting to explore a “what if” doesn’t necessarily mean you like either character more or less. Sometimes you just feel that putting together two characters with particular personalities and backstories might make for something interesting, and that’s it.

On the other hand, it’s worth remembering that Lily is a character we barely get to know. We know a few things about her, but her life in the series is compressed into four scenes and an early death. Other characters, in contrast, are active within the books, they have developed personalities, storylines we’re familiar with and feel close to. There’s simply more to work with when you’re writing a fic, because you can play with who they actually are, rather than having to invent 80% of their character from scratch.

And also, if you ship Severus with someone like Lupin or Sirius, you can write them as adults, which opens up a much wider range of possibilities. The teenage world is quite limited in that sense. Lily dies at 21, just as her life is starting, and frankly, a lot of us aren’t interested in teenage stories. They just don’t appeal to us.

What I’m trying to say is that there are hundreds of reasons why someone might prefer one ship over another, and many of them have absolutely nothing to do with misogyny. In fact, what draws people to a ship or dynamic is precisely that it’s toxic or problematic because they like reading or writing that kind of thing. Reducing it all to misogyny, when Lily is a character who simply can’t compete in terms of development, context, or complexity with any of the others you’ve mentioned, feels like quite a bold claim.

[they-them-that]

The Complex Misogyny Enacted by Queer Men

Call outs: James Somerton, Trixie Mattel, Katya, Le'Ron Readus, The Roundtable, Rupaul, Karl Lagerfeld, Dolce and Gabana

With the James Somerton scandal, although I only watched some of his videos in passing, it has definitely made me make sure to be more vigilant about the content I consume and how they source.

I also want to address James' misogyny, something that tragically isn't unique to him. The "straight girl" scapegoat many queer men target has bothered me for a long time. They try to frame it in a way that is "punching up" at the privileged but their problem is entirely against them being women. Trixie Mattel has a habit of complaining about "straight" girls that has put me off, especially when her complaints are incredibly presumptuous and small minded. We wouldn't know random women's sexuality yet we choose to assume they're straight so we can openly ridicule them. Even if these women are straight, the problems queer men levy towards them doesn't so much call out any discriminatory behavior as it is shaming women for what they think is "shrill", "annoying", or just for sharing a space with them.

I recall an episode of UNHhhh where Trixie and Katya said how straight people are guests in queer spaces and in the same way, they can be "uninvited". Even though they use a gender neutral term here, we know that the bulk of straight people who attend queer events are women. In the same way that queer spaces are a safe space for gay men, it's also a safe space for women who want to avoid sexual advancements and sexual violence. Gay men overlook women's issues and needs when they find their presence inconvenient despite women posing little threat to them.

I've also seen the way queer men target queer women when they feel like they've been benefiting more than them. James Somerton, La'Ron Readus, and Tom from The Roundtable have all argued how the ratio of wlw representation in media compared to mlm is due to favouritism towards wlw relationships. This is a pure assumption, at the point they made this argument, we never heard of a canon mlm relationship being shot down by TV or movies and the accusers provided no examples of such, just that wlw representation has been making a breakthrough at the time thanks to the vehement pushing of its writers and show creators. It has nothing to do with preferences for wlw relationships as these studios have tried to stop it and still push back against it to "appeal to a broad audience". It just so happens that the queer creatives who have made waves for representation wanted to represent queer femmes, most identifying closely with sapphic experiences. To underestimate the amount of discrimination these queer creators got for getting wlw representation out there by assuming they have some type of privilege over queer CIS men is grossly ignorant. Although mlm representation is important, it's upsetting to see queer men look at wlw representation and respond with jealousy, unknowing of how queerness already centralizes them. RuPaul's Drag Race, for example, was only allowed for CIS men before trans women were recognized as legitimate drag performers, many of the "CIS" contestants turning out to be trans women. Drag kings still have not made any appearances on the show and are still overlooked and undervalued in the Drag community.

Even though queer men cry for their turn when it comes to something like queer representation in the media (even though it exists, they just have a problem with women having more than them), they don't bat an eye in the way queer men dominate places like the fashion industry that heavily discriminate against women (Karl Lagerfeld and Dolce and Gabana being infamously misogynistic). They also wince at gay shipping culture and mlm representation when it's created by women, accusing them of fetishism, something I've been guilty of in the past. Although, there's an understandable desire for mlm content that is also written by queer men and discomfort about women being voyeurs in gay fiction, we're also assuming these women aren't queer themselves or that they even identify as women. Love Simon's author, Becky Albertalli was forced to come out as bisexual after years of scrutiny for being a "straight woman profiting off of queer romance".

"I legitimately didn't realize. I'm thirty-seven years old. I've been happily married to a guy for almost ten years. I have two kids and a cat. I've never kissed a girl. I never even realized I wanted to. But if I rewind further, I'm pretty sure I've had crushes on boys and girls for most of my life. I just didn't realize the girl crushes were crushes."

There is an oversight on how many people divulge in queer fiction in order to explore their sexuality and gender long before they even consider that they could be queer themselves (I know that was my experience). But even with straight women, many of them are actually drawn to gay fiction because it subtracts women from the equation. Female characters are subject to sexist tropes and many of their romances are imbalanced and toxic. Gay fiction has been a way for women to enjoy romance without feeling the weight of patriarchy through femme-presenting characters.

All this to say that misogyny is still fervent in the queer community and queer men do not get a pass on how they talk about and treat women. I noticed that the most privileged of the queer community, that being White CIS gay men, are the ones who act the most entitled in the queer spaces they enter, not the "straight" women they constantly antagonize. Queer men still struggle with what all men struggle with and that's acknowledging their privileges. Even if they swear their problem with women is because of their sexuality, it really ends up coming down to their gender.

[necroticgodsbah]

-> Mental Health Holder by NecroticGods <-

Hi so I decided to get into the swing of things again I’d make ourselves a mental health holder to maybe cope better. I got an image saved to our phone to maybe make a program enforcer next because I’m bored and problematic bahs my beloved. Also the handlers haven’t had a personal problem in here for a bit “but why would you want to cause problems Max???” Because I’m a persecutor and bored myself Karen, let me be annoying. Hope you enjoy h!m 🫶 tell me what you think of this new style

Max (and Andrew)

Name ;; Eryx, Iridis , Sear , Opium

Age ;; Ageweird (23, Ageless , Ageslider)

ID labels ;; Male , Agender , Aboy , Lostdreamic , Somigender , MLM , Orientated AroAce.

Pronouns ;; He / H! / They / Th!y / It / !t / Dream / Fog / Sleep / Trance / Dream / ☁️ / 🫶 + Nameself

Species ;; Wisp or Spirit , can present as a vaguely masculine fae-like creature

Role ;; Mental health holder , soother , DPDR experiencer

Speaking info ;; Sear is fully verbal and speaks with a formal, airy tone. Almost as if he’s far away and seeing something that isn’t… quite there… H!Also doesn’t tend to understand newish slang. Th!y also tend to be blunt

Typing and writing info ;; As said above dream can be very blunt and formal. They punctuate their sentences and because of this ☁️ can come off as rude. But !t doesn’t mean it. On paper he writes in cursive , neat and easy to read

Hobbies ;; writing and anything that involves in creating. May start making their own bahs, if you’re a willo system h! might even fancy himself one of the main willomancers. Sleep also enjoys meditation, social gatherings that involve alcohol and collecting things

Clothing style ;; anything that’s comfortable and looks nice as fog would say. Full of blues and whites and the occasional gold jewellery to compliment. Light jewellery, rings preferred

[simplyvalinor]

Ranking Guy’s mlm ships by how likely they are to happen

1. Guy x Jasper

200000/10

this art

both jasper and guy’s routes give massive “this is my boyfriend guy/jasper and this is his boyfriend jasper/guy” WHY IS THERE MULTIPLE INSTANCES OF GUY AND MC GETTING FREAKY IN FRONT OF JASPER AND GUY IS LIKE “LET HIM WATCH” LIKEEE HUHHHHH

“Given the choice between you and Jasper, I would rather have him as my wife” ??????

that route where guy ingests an aphrodisiac and propositions Jasper and Jasper is like “i am honored 😇 but those pursuits are for the realm of sobriety😔” oh…so you might say yes if he was sober jasper? hmmm

jasper definitely services guy when he’s having a bad day

post guy’s route him and mc definitely let jasper watch as a special treat mc would be flustered but guy is like smh i let him watch me masturbate all the time this is nothing new

post jasper’s route mc says they should invite guy into their bed bc jasper would like it and jasper acts like he wouldnt 😐 but during the act would be like “omg my two fav people getting nasty🫣😍” he’d love it

2. Guy x Fenn

10000/10

they’re the equivalent of the “you wanna kiss me so bad it makes you look stupid” meme

they already have kissed!!!

this route if mc didnt interrupt…. oh they wouldve gotten nasty

Fenn is always wildin for Guy’s birthday 🫣first the collar and Guy puts it on mc and is like wow what a great gift??????? um ok

then the punch card where i think guy gets points if he sleeps with fenn or takes fenn out on a date?? And then if he reaches a certain amount of points his reward is an entire day to do with fenn whatever he wants……and guy keeps the card 💀💀💀💀💀 (jasper also has one and excitedly says he has three points and cant wait to have an entire day with fenn)

Fenn knows how much he can get away with and every once in a while i think Guy gives in😏😏 they would fuck so nasty im concerned for their health

3. Guy x Lynt

20/10

this one you genuinely have to be blind not to see the possibility im sorry

Besides Jasper Lynt would be the only other pairing that would not have to put in work to get Guy to agree to them. Lynt would just have to ask lol

Mr. “Lynt is a comfort to be around” Avari!?

Yeah…Lynt would only have to ask to fuck and Guy would be like sure why not and then be surprised when he catches feelings

There’s too many instances of Guy being a softie for Lynt I cannot even reference them all. I’d need a binder full of screenshots!

Just to reference Fenn’s wild ass birthday gifts again, Fenn gifts Lynt Guy for his birthday AND GUY GOES ALONG WITH IT

I swear there’s even an instance with Lynt sneaking into bed with mc and Guy in the middle of the night and Guy just allows it??

Spoilers for Lynt book 2, but it’s Guy Lynt turns to for help with the blue olive problem And Guy is like “you do realize you owe Avari? would you make such a vow to me so lightly?” and Lynt says “🥺YES BECAUSE ITS YOU, GUY” and Guy is like 😒😒this naive ass bitch….”but since its you who’s asking🥺🥺my magic is yours🥺🥺🥺” these gay ass bitches…. Guy would NEVER do that for anyone else the only other prince he’s done something remotely kind for is Toa💀💀💀

4. Guy x Roy

2/10

alexa play paparazzi by lady gaga

Everyone point at Roy and go SIMP 👉🏻👉🏻👉🏻👉🏻

is it mean to roy if i say i prefer this ship as unrequited—LISTENNNNN i just think that Roy would mever actually act upon his attraction to guy

Sherry dunking on her own brother in Guy’s route and being like “if you(mc) and guy get together roy is gonna be pissed!” and Rio agrees 💀💀 that scene had me gagged

Roy’s ear being pierced to match Guy💀💀

Their’s would be an angst filled romance 🤨🤨 like Guy would think Roy’s affection would be amusing at first but then he’d quickly get annoyed at Roy’s hero-worship. Roy would need to learn how to see Guy as a person but also show his true self.

IF they were able to get past each other’s princely status and just be people, i think they’d actually be very cute 🥰 🥰 but yeah lots of angst

5. Guy x Toa

-75000/10

oh brother….the two most shippable are always the most unlikely to be together in canon, aren’t they?

they both see love as a waste of time and that there is only political duty

it’d be the SLOWEST of slow burns we’re talking bible length proportions slow burn

they HAVE to fight or angrily kiss to get to the next level there will be no civil conversation here, only toxicity

the potential is there i could talk all day i very clearly obviously have a preference

like i said earlier, Guy actually did something kind for Toa once…. In Toa’s route he gets himself in deep shit for not only fighting Guy, but losing. And Toa’s basically in disgrace in consequence but Guy fixes everything simply by implying that he respected Toa’s abilities at a party in front of important people from all the kingdoms. Simple, but insane coming from Guy, all things considered.

and then this happens after…

alexa play once more to see you by mitski

alexa play i can see you by taylor swift

alexa play guilty as sin by taylor swift

[karenandhenwilson]

hi would you consider this statement to he lesbophoic cause I interpret it as the MLM lesbian buddies as inserting themselves into gay men business while ignoring henren and putting down bt but I was called lesbophoic but I wonder about your thoughts also if it is lesbophoic would you mind explaining?

https://x.com/Angelyougowhat/status/1884086832478220288

I considered deleting this. Or answering without publishing the ask. Because honestly? This reads like a troll trying to bait me to get attacked by the same group of people. Why else send this on anon but then claim to be the OP of the tweet or at least to have said the same thing? But maybe it's not and I'm just overly suspicious of this fandom after 2022 and 2024.

Anyway. I don't make a secret out of how much I hate how Henren is treated in the 9-1-1 fandom. Because it is galling and highly unfair. Except for very few people, the Black lesbian couple is only remembered to be used as a weapon, especially over this past year. Especially by a certain group of people.

And some people in this fandom swing the flag of their (alleged) queer identity around like a weapon and a shield at the same time. And that's not the queer men of the fandom who protested very loudly and rightfully how Tommy and Bucktommy and everyone who loved one or both has been treated over the past year.

So, I do agree with the general idea about the 9-1-1 fandom of the statement linked above. The toxic part of the fandom who has made it their whole life to attack anyone who disagrees with their mantra of "Buddie will go canon!" for the past six and a half seasons has used their (alleged) queer identity as a shield and weapon every single time they were called out for their behavior. But just as with Henren, there were many times when I looked at those posts and thought "curious how that only comes up when it can be used as a weapon", but I'd never tell that to the person directly. Because who am I, or who is anyone else, to question their claimed queer identity? But I'm still allowed to have this thought and talk about it with my friends. At this point, it would be the least heinous thing some of these people have done.

The problem is the generalization of the statement. And that's where the OP of the tweet ran right into the trap those toxic fans laid out with all using the same queer identity as their shield and weapon.

Not all Buddie fans are part of the toxic people causing havoc in this fandom. That's why phrases like BoB (Buddie or Bust) and Bestie Boos were created. To separate the toxic group from the general Buddie fandom, even if the BoBs like to claim it was created as a slur for them. (Though, it is galling how eerily quiet most of the Buddies are every time the BoBs reach a new peak in their harassment and hate. On the other hand, they know what would happen if they did speak up, and they clearly prefer to continue to be praised for their Buddie fan work or to be ignored by the BoBs rather than to be harassed and canceled by them. Which is a ... choice, of course.)

The BoBs who always swing around the lesbian flag to protest being called out for their homophobic behavior concerning Tommy, Bucktommy, and the fans of one or both aren't all the lesbians of fandom, and especially not all lesbians in general. (And as I mentioned, some of them might not even be lesbians at all.) But now they could take this statement, throw it at a group of lesbian friends who have no idea about 9-1-1 or what's going on in the fandom and those people rightfully feel stereotyped and attacked by the tweet because the tweet doesn't make it clear that it's talking about a very specific subset of people who use the lesbian flag to justify their hateful, hurtful and ugly behavior.

The BoBs have proven over and over again that they strive to create that kind of harassment in fandom. Most of them are probably right there in the middle of those reactions to the tweet and are wallowing in the hate and harassment they once again managed to facilitate. They have taken much less and tried to make a whole elephant of a scandal out of it. (They learned well from a certain group of other toxic fans a couple of years ago in that regard.)

It's an age-old tactic to claim to be part of a group of people while doing bad acts or to highlight only ever some violent individuals as a representation of the whole group to create hate against that group. And thus, they can either divide their oposition or find support for their hate of a certain group of people. It's happening all over the world right now in much more concerning situations than fandom. I think the OP of that tweet ran right into the trap of that tactic even though I, as someone who has been part of this fandom for years and was witness to the two most vicious toxic explosions in this fandom, understand where they are coming from. But someone not in the 9-1-1 fandom or even just only at the fringe of the 9-1-1 fandom has no chance to know the context just from the tweet alone. And that's the problem of that tweet.

[seasurfacefullofclouds1]

The problem with Harry’s ambition is that he wants too much. He wants to be seen as a fan of ballet, classical music, pop, indie, and rock. He also wants to be recognised as a passionate reader and writer, art collector, athlete, cinephile, fashionista, designer, creator, actor, pescatarian, party animal, healthy and responsible performer, and musician who plays multiple instruments, among other things.

The main issue is that it doesn’t come across as authentic or genuine, instead, it seems flippant and pretentious. He can’t convey any of the above in his interviews and struggles to properly describe what he actually likes and does. He is deeply concerned about his statements and prefers to stand for nothing in particular rather than risk being polarising.

But as long as he has Variety, Rolling Stone, Billboard, The Guardian, etc. explaining what he’s really like, how he’s really a cool, profound, funny, intellectual dude that both men and women really, really, really dig, Harry Styles can continue being everything to everyone while having the depth of an algae.

Oh and the fans he shares with Louis, that incredible double-edged sword of Larries that manages to hype Harry up and drive Louis’ fans underground… how can we forget them? The sly old ladies with their poisonous group chats, driving little cuts into Louis’ image just like Joe Bromley of the Evening Standard (they use the same technique), and the fans who can’t think past banal gay stereotypes and mlm porn.

Harry wants a lot, and he’s not an intellectual or particularly articulate. But there’s so much invested in him that he doesn’t have to do much.

Did he understand camp? Did he actually crack open Sontag’s book? Who cares, in the end. He was the Met Gala host, and in this world, that’s what people remember.

[hei3355]

aight im just saying it this once. anyone who has the idea of 'yaoi (an outdated term)/asian bl is toxic and fetishize gay men' please do not follow me because one of the thing i draw is bl. and because this is an incredibly racist, transphobic, sexist and anti-queer take.

bl is just a term for mlm stories, it encompass a wide varieties of genre from romance, drama, slice of life...etc to straight up pwp. whoever said 'asian bl is only sex and toxic fetishist shit' only read like one or two random r18 doujin which was recommended as mockery and never actually look into what it has to offer. there are so many wholesome bl out there, you are just blinded by stigma about this type of media. so many bl have complex and touching stories wayyy ahead of time but got no recognition but when some westerners did the exact same thing it is 'ground breaking queer presentation'?

but even then what is wrong with just portraying sex? isnt sex a normal human activity? how come is it ok to watch all kind of illogical porn on the internet but god forbid some asian ppl drawing some weird porn. people who got proper education know that porn is not reflection of reality. its for KINK AND FETISH. then why is asian queer adult drawn porn is treated differently??? why are people saying 'it portray gay men in a bad light' when its just fiction???? why suddenly some small artists works are considered text book case stidy for how gay men behave?

then theres 'toxic and fetishize'. the human nature is messy. life is messy. and so can queer experience be messy. please acknowledge that not everyone's experience is all rainbow and sunshine. so what is wrong with asian choosing to express their experiences in a more messy, brazen and disturbing way? these media are always created by asian for asian. if you dont find them enjoyable or fitting of your value then the least you could do is click back and not talk shit abt it.

'i am ok if the bad got portrayed as bad and not romanticized' if a single fictional story can led your moral compass astray then the problem is on you. not everything have a good ending. especially in the real world. good people die unfulfilling deaths while evil people continue to live happy fulfilling lives. and there are people who want to portray that in their works. art is to invoke emotion. and negative emotion is also emotion. there are many who find such emotion from fictional work carthatic. if you dont and prefer happy go lucky story then go find those.

and lastly. saying 'bl is created to please cishet women' is transphobic and sexist. just because someone has a feminine pen name doesnt mean they are a woman. and what is wrong with women enjoying and creating fictional work? all of that talk about feminism but then you choose to side with the sexist dudebro men to talk down on women's hobby and interest? dunking on the word 'fujoshi' is not a cool take as you think it is. fujoshi was created to shame women for not conforming to their role of a good housewives serving men, to shame women for having hobby and interest. but the jpnese women fought hard to reclaim that term. only for you people to appropriate it back to the sexist term in the beginning? very progressive.

[jazeswhbhaven]

what I find hilarious is that I looked up the artist who designs the L cards and a good amount of their stuf is filled with yaoi. Imagine designing your game to be straight af but hire someone who does the completely opposite. not that it's any issue, but the WHB male choice I heard was a last minute add in and most if all of the scenes are clearly written for a female pov. little weird imo

It just goes to show an artist can have range but also prefer to make art aligned to their own interests! I was there for their ZoroxSanji ship art and it was always banger after banger. I bet the artist has fun drawing anything, but those kind of ships probably makes them happier.

I wish there was a chance for PB to consider mlm or CxC art at least for like one singular event or card for Nori (the artist) to draw so I can say I lived to see it. lol

Now as far as the male choice being added in, I remember vaguely when they were first teasing the game, that a lot of players were asking for more options and there was even a mention where there was going to be a non-binary option too (I suspect that was just a rumor though looking back on it) so they definitely took it into consideration to broaden their player base. Problem with that is they are just now....a year in improving on the male side of the game catering to making it feel different instead of just slapped on top of fem centered writing like it was before. So yeah they weren't prepared for two options for this game...

[that-one-i-think]

i hate when misogynists in fandoms will try and accuse other people of misogyny, or use it as some kind of... ammo??

like 9-1-1 discourse again,

theres a new show which kind of appeals to a similar demographic. I wanted to just read the posts in peace, but i saw people saying:

'oh yeah if people liked X 9-1-1 ship, they'll be hating on Female Character for 'getting in the way' of the mlm ship' and basically just saying that X-shippers cannot act appropriately about their ship being 'interrupted' by a female character.

... But, y'know... this is being said by people who are probably fans of Ship Y... which has existed for multiple seasons longer than X, and has an extensive history of bullying actresses for their characters... getting in the way of their mlm ship...

even if they aren't Y-shippers, they're still posing it as X-shippers being the root of a problem that predates them.

like instead of going 'hey like be careful of 9-1-1 fans, history of misogyny there lol' they decide to put the blame and fault of that on one of the newest ships in the show. Not on the biggest ship that has been doing misogyny since season 2! Never!

I don't gaf about either ship, honestly. But it's the way that these people are acting like their own misogyny doesnt count, but it does when people they don't like do the exact same thing. like it's fucking hypocritical. Even if they are also critical of Y-shippers' misogyny, they clearly don't view it as that big of a fucking deal.

And i hate that people will only ever call out misogyny as a 'gotcha'. never because they genuinely care, but because it's an easy card to pull when someone ships an mlm couple you don't like. They've also pulled out the 'yaoi fetish' card, instead of properly critiquing it... and i'm not saying it's above critique, i'm just saying people do it in bad faith.

AND IT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYONE DISSING THIS FEMALE CHARACTER, AND THE MAIN SHIP IS LITERALLY HER AND THE TWO GUYS. ALL THREE OF THEM. by main ship i literally mean in the show, it's like an episode off from being fully stated canon.

Fuck Yeah! Polyamory Main Ship!

But seriously, I have always been a multishipper, and I have faced a lot of similar situations of just misogyny blaming. No one ship is better than the other (unless it's a really fucked up ship that shouldn't be shipped) and trying to start discourse over "which is more misogynistic" is just a different version of "which ship is better but with MORALS"

I am also a believer of the fact that too many people in fandoms do have a gay fetish, but I also understand that there is a difference between shipping a gay ship and having a fetish. I have been accused of having a gay fetish, as a trans-man with a male preference who has had relations with other trans men. So a lot of gay fetish accusing is just trying to start argument or invalidate. Which is stupid when the invalidating stuff IS GENUINE PROBLEMS LIKE PEOPLES GAY FETISH AND MISOGYNY!

Also, I hate it when people bring fandom into rea life. I hate the idea of shipping real people, like I think you can think people look cute together but actively shipping alive humans is disturbing. What more, I hate it when people attack actors and actresses with things out of their control cause a ship will never ever be more important that a person's well being. Real people should not be at the whims of fandoms.

(To be fair, I don't trust people who don't have at least one straight ship and one lesbian ship they enjoy)

[beanghostprincess]

Why is shanks/buggy so underrated in this side of fandom? It’s much more loved in Japanese one, one of the most popular for shanks. I feel like this one prefers other mlm options for him and I don’t get it. It got better after OPLA I think but still. Sorry for my English!

Oh! This is actually such an interesting question. I was talking about this the other day and I came to a conclusion with my friend about this. Basically, there are a lot of things to take into consideration here. The screentime, the age of the characters, the chemistry, how they're perceived by the fandom and canonically, etc etc etc.

The first thing I thought about was the screentime, honestly. Shanks and Buggy grew up together and they have a deep bond, however, we've only seen that through flashbacks (one in quite literally episode 8 of the anime, another one in Wano that isn't even about them and they're just side characters in this flashback, and in chapter 1082 of the manga. But it's not even a proper flashback because we already saw that when Shanks talks to Whitebeard about Buggy, it's just Buggy's interpretation of it) and we only have like one scene of them together that isn't even two minutes long. So, quite obviously you'd think "well, the ship isn't as popular as other ships because they barely have any screentime" and I think it's correct but also not quite. And also, this would also have to apply to the Japanese fandom at the end of the day. Fandoms don't give a single fuck about screen time if the chemistry is right, really, but there's always this factor, y'know. Lawlu has less screentime than Zolu and yet it's more popular somehow because people absolutely love their dynamic. Then, if you stop to think about it, both Satosugu (Jjk) and Soukoku (Bsd) have the same dynamic and concept as Shuggy, but they're by far the most popular ships in their fandoms. They're basically the same ships but Jjk and Bsd give them proper development and story because they're shorter series. One Piece is a long show and we still have many things to see, even if we know it's gonna end soon, so I guess that we'll still have to wait to see more of Shuggy. Once we do, I'm sure it'll become more popular. Also, Shanks' personality is very diverse because he's all mysterious and all, so I kind of understand why people don't want to make content because they still don't have him figured out.

But then again, screen time isn't really the problem. It's just one of the factors. If they had more screen time, they'd be more popular for sure, yes, but it's not exactly what makes them less popular in this side of the fandom. Otherwise, it'd be equally as popular on the other sides too. The Japanese side of fandoms is different from this one and tbh they often don't take into consideration things like cancel culture and proship discourse or the standard beauty regarding age because they just post whatever they want and scroll past what they don't like (god I fucking wish we were like that because I am so done with these things). Besides, isn't Buggy like a very beloved character over there, aside from Oda's favorite? At least from what I've seen, they take his character way more seriously than this side of the fandom does, honestly. And it bothers me because he's such a complex and great character, and people never see it because they use him either for memes or to keep saying "omggg turns out the clown is hot!! Can you believe I want to fuck a clow-" yes, Samantha, we know you want to fuck the clown. It's not weird. It's not new. Do you even like the character, at least, or you're just using him to say how kinky and quirky you are? (And I don't even care about the sexualization of characters because, again, fictional characters are fictional characters and you don't have to take everything so seriously. I have tons of characters I don't like that much but only stan because I find them hot and that's alright. But damn, it bothers me sometimes).

Anyway, with this, I wanna say that there are other things to have in mind when talking about this.

Recently (I know it's not exactly new but in fandom years? Recently) there has been a huge thing surrounding the term "old men yaoi". People are so down bad for middle-aged men and they see two of them together and they instantly go "omg they're soo married" but that's- That's it? That's just it. They don't even ship them, they just find the concept of older men hot because "omg he's such a dilf" and they want to fuck both of them. But they never end up doing anything with it. They try to be so groundbreaking like "ohh I am SO woke by shipping these two old men! See? Breaking stereotypes!" because both irl and online, age has always been a very stigmatized thing. Apparently you can't be in a fandom if you're older than 25 because then you're weird, and if there's an actress older than 50 she's instantly useless for the industry.

What I want to say with this is that most people in the fandom are young. They're young and they like attractive, young, hot people and they don't want old, unconventionally attractive men. They don't want them unless it's to give a "hot take" and to be super progressive and woke. Do you know what they like? They like Dilfs. They like Shanks because he's conventionally attractive and good with kids and he's the standard for a Dilf. Because he's hot and mysterious but also silly and quirky and "he's almost forty that is so hot something something daddy kink". And they don't want to see him fucking someone his age because God forbid this man has a personality outside being a Dilf. Younger people in the fandom constantly read y/n fics regarding Shanks because they want him to fuck them and not Buggy. And they can't project in these old men, so they publicly say "oh, Shanks and Buggy are so married" because it's just a fact the fandom made clear, but they don't really like the content. Because liking Buggy sexually, apparently, is just so weird. Or as a character. Nobody wants to say their favorite character is the failguy clown. It's a hot take when you say that Buggy is hot because people keep being all weird about it when... Uh... He's- He's just a clown. Guys. It's not weird. Or bad. Who raised you to think that? God, I find Monet extremely hot and she's half-bird. Could we please normalize these things? They're fictional characters. And also, stop reducing Buggy to his jokes or the fact that he's a clown because his character is GREAT and complex and it just bothers me so much.

This makes me think about this whole "background couple" thing. Which are basically couples that are canon or that are so popular and obvious that people, instead of making content for them (because why would you make content for a canon couple?) just place them in the background instead. There are so many fanfics in which Shuggy is a background couple. Or studies in which, instead of analyzing them, they're used only for parallelisms. This happens with, idk, Saboala? Frobin? Yamace? People don't like couples that everybody agrees on. They don't like m/f ships because they can't be woke!!!!! And queer!!!! (when they easily could but whatever). They don't like ships that everybody likes because!!!!!! They're canon already and why would you write about them???? And so, Shuggy stays a bit more as a side couple instead. For being old and unconventionally unattractive and not having much screentime, but being extremely popular. Not in a "content" way, but in a "knowledge" way. Even the general audience thinks their bond is crucial to the story, c'mon.

One of the differences that this side of the fandom has with the Japanese one, as I mentioned before, is the cancel culture and proship discourse thing. They just don't have that concept. And that's perfect, honestly, I wish we could just scroll past what we don't like too and live peacefully because the discourse is getting tiring. And also you have to admit that, because of the anti propaganda going around, now fandoms have turned into the most puritan thing in the world. Beware! Sex! Age difference between fictional characters that have a consensual and healthy and mature relationship! Oh! God forbid teenagers have sex with people their age! Ohmygodjustshutup. And so, Shuggy isn't a problematic ship. Not even close. But inside the OP world, people do say they are brothers. They keep talking about each other like that, too. And I don't even think it's the typical "we say they're like brothers so you don't think they're gay because they're both guys and guys can't kiss" (I am having flashbacks from the IT fandom). They do have the same parents. Like- We all agree Shanks and Buggy were both raised by Roger and Rayleigh and they consider them, if not their dads, parental figures at least. Right? And you're aware that doesn't make it incest, right? Both things can coexist. Foster families are a thing. Lots of people who grew up together and consider the same people their parental figures end up dating because they don't see each other as siblings. Well, most people don't see it this way and hear the word "brother" and run from it like it's a fucking virus. The Japanese side of the fandom doesn't give a fuck because they're fictional and because they're y'know, not brothers? And even if they were, cancel culture and proship discourse is so fucking stupid to them because they follow the "don't like don't look" thing. But on this side of the fandom, a lot of people see them as brothers and the other half sees them as a divorced couple and apparently nobody knows how to fucking read this manga and have a proper fandom experience without jumping to each other's throats at the minimum disagreement.

So, to summarize: People on this side of the fandom don't like Shuggy THAT much and it isn't such a popular ship in comparison to the Japanese side, because young people don't like older men together, they don't focus on unconventionally attractive characters, are afraid of any little possibility of cancelation, and also, well, Shuggy doesn't have much screentime anyway so there's not much we can do with that.

[junksqueezer]

Semi-vent and more-so a rant I think

Seeing Sammy's posts ab the MO fandom situation was crazy tbh but I agree with her 100%. Fiction is fiction n that's it. As someone who is unstable and has severe anger issues fiction helps me a lot especially selfships and OC x Canon whether the ships are mine or by friends/moots and it can calm me down if I get so aggressive that I'm practically unapproachable. It's one of my healthier copes because my most harmful one is impulse-spending money like crazy then regretting it but the dopamine of purchasing something whether it's art or goods temporarily calms me down but then I'm like "Fuckk bruh my WALLET 💀💀"

But the one thing that always pisses me off ab the MO fandom the most, especially this part of it is when people don't tag their dumbass yaoi ships with my f/os. I have really strong filters but when people don't tag their shit it slips through and when I see it I immediately have to block the artist and whisper "kill yourself" 572895 times under my nose or I'll start throwing shit across my room and then try to dissociate by using lobotomizingly loud music or thinking ab the f/o in the post and my OC/SI being together. I hope I don't sound too homophobic or anything because normally idgaf ab gay ships people can do what they want and I really like WLW but I get aggressive if they're with my f/os because I was cheated on by a bisexual man and the event fucked me over mentally so bad that it made me hate any MLM ships with any of my f/os no matter the fandom, it just makes me unbelievably uncomfortable. I don't know if this even classifies as a sort of trauma or if it's just a result of underlying anger issues amplifying by 100 which is not as justified but if someone sees I blocked them even if I've never interacted with them before and they wonder why I probably had a moment while I was looking through my favs' tags, it's primarily just preference bc I don't wanna see that shit. Though it's ironic I'm whining abt this since I said fiction is fiction and nothing's real but seeing my f/os squished with other boys makes me relive the event as if my f/o is cheating on me and it pisses me off so bad that it's crazy even if I know they'd never do that bc they're not real. Also because I could never self-insert as a man I am proud of being a woman and I could never relate to any gay content (unless we count lesbian/WLW then it's no issue). Even if my f/os are shipped with random girls I'll be like "so true 💯" bc I can pretend that's just me lol but when it's a guy it just makes me mad

I'm not delusional btw I'm a completely normal and sane individual with no problems whatsoever 🙂 (I am absolutely delusional and shouldn't have ever been trusted with the ability to fantasize)

Now this is a REAL junkyap post 💀 Even writing this out made me mad bruh my fingers be trembling n shit 😭😭. I'm gonna take a cold shower and draw Beth smooching her boyfriend to calm my ass down

[butmakeitgayblog]

Another anon here and regarding straights enjoying queer fiction, there's a perspective I think is worth sharing (for the record, I'm not straight).

So there's a huge fanbase consisting of straight cis women who enjoy mlm content. It's a thing to the point where there's gay shows made specifically targeting this fanbase.

I got to talk to one of my friends who dabbled in this stuff. I asked her why? What's the draw? She pointed out sth I thought was pretty interesting.

She said that for straight girls it can be pretty hard to enjoy straight pairings because they will always experience the story through the eyes of the female character, who is also limited by societal rules or even gender roles. By watching/reading a mlm, there's no female perspective, which takes away all the irl problems.

For example, take the "if guys get sex it's a flex, if girls get sex it's a shame" bullshit. By watching mlm instead of mlw and watching through one or both male characters, they can escape the whole stigma altogether.

To take a step further, since there's an inherent safety/advantage in being a guy in many situations. They can sort of experience that freedom through taking the female character out of the equation. It's sort of like getting gender euphoria but instead it's gender role freedom euphoria???

Theres also the male gaze problem. The majority of straight shoes have gender roles to varying degrees, which skewers the power dynamic within the pairing. This makes it hard for straight girls to enjoy pairings bc they will always be put into a position where they notice inequalities toward them. So again escape.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is, I agree that this topic is pretty complex.

It is! It's very complex. But just to kind of comment on some of your points - a lot(not all) of the straight women who consume mlm media tend to consume it to the exclusion of everything else.

I could possibly understand the points your friend made better if they also consumed things like mlw media and fics written by women, or wlw fics/media at all. But they generally don't, especially not the latter. Often times a lot of straight women mass-consumers of mlm fic and commercial media, in my experience at least, tend to treat wlw content with disgust, ridicule, or flat out indifference. Perhaps not to the same vitriolic degree straight men tend to treat mlm content compared to wlw content, but it's still there. So that kind of... makes me question if they're actually being entirely honest with themselves as to why they're consuming the specific content that they do.

I'm just saying, straight women can be just as guilty as straight men when it comes to how and why they approach the specific queer media that they do, especially when it's to the exclusion of other kinds of queer pairings.

Because I pose this: if it really all falls down to power dynamics and releasing themselves from the male gaze, then why focus exclusively on a gendered pairing that just erases the woman entirely? Why a pairing that focuses solely on a basic personal sexual preference? Makes women irrelevant to existence? Why not gravitate toward more straight women writers who thwart or rewrite a lot of those societal gender inequities that effect women within their work? Why not give respect or audience to wlw content that makes the male gaze and male/female power dynamics irrelevant as well?

See what I'm saying?

That being said, it's still not my job to police that consumption for all the same reasons I said in that last post. And to reiterate, I'm not saying your friend is wrong for feeling how she feels or that she's making it up. I don't think that at all! People have a lot of complex feelings, which is why this topic is inherently complex. I just think two things can be true at the same time, even when we may not realize those biases about ourselves

[atrociousrat]

I don't know if this is just a me problem, like, I'm not looking hard enough or something, but it seems like there are no good wlw ships in media that is considered more mature. Every wlw couple that I've found save for ones like Farcille or Caitvi are in shows aimed toward younger audiences. I'm pretty sure this has been said before, but I've noticed the lack of mlm relationships in media aimed towards children as well. It's like people just went: "Oh! Two girls! That is innocent and pure because all women are innocent and pure and therefore they should be in children's media!" and then "Oh no! Two men? In love? That is a very mature topic and should only be handled in media aimed towards mature audiences!" I think this is why it's so refreshing to see wlw relationships such as Marcille and Falin, because it doesn't feel like people are trying to "purify it" in a sense. Especially not Tumblr dear god the things I have witnessed involving that ship.... AHEM

Another problem that I've encountered is not just the wlw relationships almost exclusively being portrayed in shows/movies aimed towards children, but also in books, graphic novels, and hell even Webtoons. It's so much more common that you find BL Webtoons (cough cough the canvas romance section cough cough) than GL despite there being a lot of them on the site. And in books, the wlw couples are always either subtly hinted at, very brief relationships that happen before the mc finds another love interest that just happens to be a guy, or they aren't well written at all (plus most of these couples are in YA novels anyways) It just feels off no matter the book. Then again, that might just be genre preference on my part, seeing as the type of books I enjoy don't match up with the type of books these couples are typically portrayed in. I don't honestly know what my point was supposed to be here, and I don't really know if anyone is going to agree with me, but eh. I felt like ranting.

(apologies for my incoherent brain vomit spilling onto your Tumblr fyp dear readers, and apologies in case there was anything that I was ignorant to while writing this. The purpose of this was merely stating an opinion and sort of checking to see if I'm crazy or if this is an actual issue.)