#antimasculinism

[trans-androgyne]

omg you’re so right men are not dangerous to women at all so i guess i can totally go out alone at night all by myself and if i get raped by a man it will surely mean nothing and i should keep trusting men and think there is nothing wrong with them 😍😍😍

Trusting every strange man in the dark ≠ understanding that men aren’t ontologically evil, OR necessarily your personal oppressors, which is what I am saying. Women have literally killed or gotten killed men (especially men of color) that THEY have privilege over on some axes due their fear. So yeah, there is a way to fear men too much. This is how you get radical feminism. This is how you get TERFism. It feeds hate groups like MRAs to be genuinely hated for the way they were born. And it’s not how you progress actual intersectional feminism. To do that, you have to heal your relationship with men. I’ve been raped by men. I’ve been abused by men. But I understand that, while the societal conditions men are raised under (patriarchy, rape culture) contributed, it happened because they’re personally terrible people, not because they were born male. Acting like it is can lead you to dismiss the fact that women can pose just as much of a danger if they’re similarly terrible people. So, I’m working on healing my relationship with men. When you’re ready, you should too. I promise you it feels better than being uneasy for the rest of your life.

[okadaizoirl]

the worst thing about being transmasc is every mom that tries to either say she's losing an ally in womanhood or say shit like how her son is the "only good man" on the sole basis of his being trans.

no, mothers, you aren't losing anybody or anything. your son is still your ally. your son is also not the only good man in the world. there are many. your generational scars only make wounds in your son's heart with every comment you make that you think is supportive, but really just makes him feel worse and worse for simply being a man.

[transgymbro]

You Might Not Be Normal About Trans Men If...

You think we all pass 100% of the time with no issues or effort

You don't think feminine trans men are "real" trans men

You assume we're all transitioning to escape misogyny

You think we aren't oppressed by society

You think our problems are inherently transmisogynistic

You think it's okay to reduce us to our genitals for any reason

You think masculine trans men being themselves are inherently toxic

You think us demanding to be seen and heard and have space within our own community is us being "MRAs" and "transmisogynists"

You think transandrophobia (the idea that trans men experience oppression based on their specific intersection of transness and gender) doesn't exist or inherently is transmisogynistic

You're only okay with trans men if they don't go on T and/or get surgery

You actively try to discourage trans men from going on T and/or getting surgery

You think the previous two points don't include bottom surgery

You think all trans men are bottoms

You think gay trans men are fetishizing gay cis men

You think all transmasc artists are inherently cringe/bad at what they do

You think transmascs only exist to uplift transfems

You think anyone presenting as masculine is inherently dangerous

You think that only men/masculine presenting people can be dangerous

You think that women/feminine presenting people are always safe

You don't think trans men are in danger when forced to use the women's restroom

You think that any oppression/discrimination transmascs face is "run of the mill transphobia" or "run of the mill misogyny"

You think anything I've said on this post means that transmisogyny isn't real or matters less

You're about to leave a comment on this post accusing me of being a transmisogynist or wanting attention or wanting to be oppressed

[feministakari]

"mens feelings don't matter to feminism because they're OPPRESSORS." great to know you cannot conceive of an oppressed man. by the way, how do you treat minority men?

[hazel2468]

TFW someone you thought was neat uses “transandrodorks” to refer to transmasc people…. Gotta give them props for a new one, though, it’s more original than “theyfab”.

[twoheadedlesbian]

of course

[wwwyzzerdd420]

I'm what they call "classically masculine", meaning I wear pink

[xxlovelynovaxx]

The whole point is you don't know if they're fem cis men. You don't know if they're trans men. You don't know if they're trans women deeply closeted for their safety. You don't know if they're trans women whom misgendering will drive them further AWAY from their egg cracking and harm them. You. Don't. Know.

Misgendering is bad. "Clocking" someone is bad. Making assumptions about someone's identity and then turning it into a "joke" is bad. What's funny about misgendering someone?

Also, this discourse is literally in the context of the queer community. It's literally in the context of the queer community having an antimasculinity and gender essentialism problem. It's also in the context of gender stereotypes and the fact that smelling like flowers or painting your nails making you a girl doesn't become less of a harmless stereotype because it's a trans woman saying it. Like oh wow we went full circle from "girls play with dolls and like pink" to "trans girls play with dolls and like pink". Congrats on alienating every non-femme trans woman and femme trans non-woman.

It's not fucking transmisogyny to tell you not to misgender people or assume liking frilly things makes someone a girl. It's not fucking transmisogyny to tell you that the QUEER and especially TRANS communities have an issue with valorizing femininity while demonizing masculinity. It's not fucking transmisogyny to acknowledge this while acknowledging that actual transmisogyny demonizes transfemininity while infantilizing and erasing transmasculinity.

I'm putting the word transmisogyny on a high shelf until the rest of y'all learn what it actually fucking means. Transmisogyny isn't when an entitled white trans woman gets called out for doing actual harm. Like "joking" about misgendering someone. Or "joking" about being racist and going through a "nazi phase". Or "joking" about "raping cuntboys". It might be affirming that some queer people take your white woman's tears at face value, but here's the thing:

You're lovely women who deserve to have every access to transition, to resources, to be treated equally to cis people. You're just really fucking shitty people. You're bigots, you're cruel, you're cliquey, and you're like every boring high school mean girl who never grew out of pettily bullying other vulnerable people to get over the pathetic inadequacies of your own life circumstances.

People like that deserve community and kindness too. They also deserve not to have their behavior tolerated and to have to deal with compassionate rehabilitative justice. Those things can both be true, especially when the people they are hurting explain until our throats are raw how they're hurting us and they just keep doing it. Because the thing is, it's not actually about any "societal pressure to transition", and the fact you think it is shows you haven't listened to a single actual criticism anyone has had of the whole "egg discourse".

Other people have already explained more patiently and eloquently than me what exactly the problem with calling someone an egg is. I'd think you'd be concerned minimally with how it hurts actual transfem eggs more than anything, even if you don't care about how it very much does hurt transmascs and GNC cis men and the movement of transfeminism as a damn whole to insist "haha liking fem things=woman".

Explain what's funny about that. I'll wait.

Anyway, this was reblogged from someone I long ago considered a friend, someone I thought was better than this. I really thought most trans people were better than this when I first entered the community. I still hope some are. You deserve to be told that this is wrong, because you deserve to be reminded that you're better people than this kind of bullshit.

-your utterly over it neighborhood intersex transneufemmasc

[ventbloglite]

The thing is...I've read a lot of posts and listened to a lot of videos by binary trans men & women and non-binary people of any AGAB and intersex people to whom masculinity is assumed or desired.

Each group has unique experiences with unique bigotry targetted at them for being who they are. But each group also experiences misplaced bigotry, aimed at a different group but used to hurt them anyway.

There's also a distinct and very real overlap between transmisogyny and transandrophobia. The thread that connects these concepts for binary and nonbinary trans masc people, AMAB's of any identity (intersex and not), and yeah even some butch cis lesbians is what we've been harking on about so long - the inherent villianising of masculinity in particularly when deemed to be in the 'incorrect' place!

A butch woman is not expected to be 'too masculine'. If she's seen as failing womanhood in this way, she will face discrimination from others for doing this even amongst other lesbians.

Attending groups or events for 'women and nonbinary' only to find out they mean 'women and women-lite' and don't want anyone with any proximity to masculinity to be there. Being told or being able to quickly understand that your masculinity is making others uncomfortable despite the fact that you are amongst other queer people/trans people. Being expected to preform femininity to a certain stereotyped degree to prove you are 'safe'.

These are all specific things which could be considered both transandrophobia OR transmisogyny, depending on who they happen to but...now here me out, doesn't that just mean we need to sit and realise that the distinction between them isn't always rigid? That there is an antimasculine issue within the trans and queer community but it doesn't target any one particular group over another. The acceptance of queer masculinity is a must. It won't solve all issues not by far, but would go a long way into making sure trans women (especially but not just those who 'don't pass' and maybe never want to be feminine anyway) feel more accepted and less like they'll always be seen as predators for being born male/assigned male at birth. It'll go a long way into accepting the 'men' part of trans men and the 'masc' part of any trans masc. It'll go a long way to accepting butch lesbians are still women despite their outward proximity to 'maleness'.

And if you're seriously reading this and are about to go on a tirade about how masculinity is praised and desired in society - stop. Cis masculinity is praised and desired and even then it has rules.

The world is a lot more complex than men and masculinity good anything else bad but unfortunately if you keep seeing it this way even if you disagree you are going to be responsible for both transandrophobia and transmisogyny persisting.

[trans-androgyne]

People have been mocking me for advocating for trans men with “boohoo won’t someone please think of the men” sentiments. Make fun all you want, I will never, ever stop caring about trans men. Go for an insecurity next time, not what I’m proudest of. Trans men, I love you forever and you deserve better. Go ahead and call me a TMRA, since in the literal sense I sure am one

[aropride]

honestly i think people who say transmascs aren’t impacted by and direct targets of antimasculinity in queer spaces are being deliberately obtuse

[transgymbro]

Ok, probably a bad idea for me to get into this during midterms week but I've been seeing a lot of (really bad) misinterpretations of what transandrophobia is and I feel the need to get this off my chest.

Transandrophobia is NOT

A way to excuse or mock transmisogyny

"Run of the mill" transphobia

"Run of the mill" misogyny

A tool to oppress or speak over women of any kind

The same thing as "men's rights"

Thing is: I'm not saying that transmascs cannot ever be misogynistic or transmisogynistic, what I'm saying is that the idea of transandrophobia is not that. Transmisogyny is a real problem, and I do not deny that my trans sisters suffer from it. If you genuinely believe I am being transmisogynistic and point out specifically where, I am willing to listen and correct myself.

But I am also asking that you do the same for us. Just as transmisogyny is a word to describe the unique type of discrimination experienced by transfems, transandrophobia is a word to describe the unique type of discrimination experienced by transmascs. And again, it's not just misogyny + transphobia, it's being invisible, condescended to, having our identity dismissed in the context of reproductive healthcare, being excluded from discussions around reproductive healthcare, and much more. Some of these may overlap with what transfems and nonbinary people face, and some may not.

There's also the myth going around that transmascs, especially trans men, are privileged because it's "easier" for us to pass. That's far from true. I am a binary trans man who has been on T for 2+ years and I pass insanely easily. BUT I AM ONE OF THE RARE LUCKY ONES. And even if my experience was common or guaranteed, any male privilege I have is CONDITIONAL ON PASSING. "Choosing" to be a man in spite of my birth circumstances does not make me privileged. Privilege does not get handed to you if you are changing your identity away from your AGAB, regardless of what gender you're changing to or from. (This is without touching on how me being east Asian may factor in)

And while I'm at it: MEN OF ANY SORT ARE NEITHER INHERENTLY EVIL NOR INHERENTLY BIGOTS. SIMILARLY, WOMEN ARE NOT INHERENTLY GOOD OR SAFE. Neither one's birth sex nor their chosen gender have any weight on whether they are a good or bad person. It is the individual's actions and only the individual's actions that matter.

This is getting long and rambly, but to reiterate the main point one last time:

TRANSANDROPHOBIA AND TRANSMISOGYNY ARE BOTH IMPORTANT WORDS THAT ADDRESS IMPORTANT PROBLEMS/TYPES OF OPPRESSION, AND IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THEY COEXIST

[nothorses]

Ive tried to word this before and failed. Its not that theres NOT vicious antimale sentiment in queer circles, but whenever i see "why is there more positivity for fem trans men? Must be bc ppl hate masc trans men" it just feels. Im sure that some amount of fem positivity is malicious. But were ignoring an obvious contributor which is that fem trans men aren't always treated well by other trans men. So it just feels like thats being erased AND people are villainizing fem trans men who post positivity. Is one of the reasons for fem positivity antimasculinism? Sure. But to fixate on that and to ignore all the other reasons feels very...willfully ignorant to me. Does that make sense? Most fem positivity is in good faith. Its needed. If its not for you then its not for you. But i could make the same argument that masc positivity must all be a truscum psyop. And its not. Masc trans men arent treated well by the larger queer community. They deserve and need positivity too. But we dont need to villainize fem positivity.

I'm gonna be honest anon, I really haven't seen a lot of "there's too much positivity for [x]!" in general- but I definitely haven't seen it for specifically masc or fem transmascs, from masc or fem transmascs. This feels like beef someone made up to get people mad at each other.

Society wants transmascs to not be transmasc. It wants fem transmascs to be less fem, and it wants masc transmascs to be less masc, and it wants androgynous/other transmascs to be less confusing. These groups have different experiences influenced by their presentation & how it's perceived by others, but trying to determine who's is "worse" or who oppresses who or who has The Most Privilege or who's community-wide character is the most angry is pointless and ultimately more harmful than it could ever do good.

Idk what you're talking about but I hope if folks do see this kind of "there's too much positivity!" crap, if it does exist, they can shrug it off as the pointlessly hateful and singular bullshit it is, rather than ascribing it to some kind of community-wide beef that doesn't seem to exist.

[hazel2468]

And JUST to take the chance that this person was trying to come at me in good faith (which I doubt)-

No, I did not mean lesbians. I DID mean the small bigoted group that defines their attraction and community by how much they hate men, the group who is out there calling sapphics who date and marry men traitors, who say we’re less pure because of it, who claim we “ruin” sapphic spaces by being there.

If you read “small group who define their attraction by how much they hate men instead of how much they love women” as “all lesbians”- then no. That isn’t what I was talking about. I was talking about exactly what I said. I was talking about the radfems and terfs who’s entire presence in online sapphic spaces is “I hate men, men are evil, being attracted to men is bad”.

If you read that, and said “this person hates lesbians”- I am sorry, I do not, and that is not what was said in the post.

[vergess]

Scrolling a cool new blog that posts about how antimasculine biases in trans spaces are equally damning for both transmascs in general and masc transfems as well, very neat, very cool. Then! Oops, the Jews are an evil ethnostate that must be cleansed! (Courtesy of good old cryptotheism)

Fuuuuuuck you people do you ever get fucking tired

[osmanthusoolong]

Wow great job on your antimasculinism you got everyone impressed. All the trans women want to frot and scissssor with you now

And that’s just some of the perks!