#cherrypicking canon never works out

[starsreminisce]

I never understood why Feyre is labeled as E/riel shipper when after acowar she never mentioned them ever again. she even talked about Lucien's glove to Elain and how she should use them to not get her hands hurt in her bonus chapter. or how in acofas Feyre kept encouraging the two to talk that Mor told her to get out of their business and let them deal with it themselves!! I think she stopped engaging the idea after Rhys told her so but I'm not sure, what I'm sure about is she never thought about Elain with Azriel after acowar.

or how they keep saying she will be mad at Rhys for stopping them while Rhys other than proving Az only wanting Elain for sex, he brought up some good political reason that could put their court in danger AND most importantly their baby! do they really think she wouldn't also be mad at Az for putting them in danger bc he was horny?

It's probably because they tend to cling to the one part that validates their belief without giving much thought to the context that surrounds it.

The same reason why they would say Azriel "wouldn't go so far as to call Gwyn a friend" is because that's verbatim from his chapter. This completely ignores the fact that he didn't correct Clotho about his relationship with Gwyn or express how he felt after the necklace was given away.

Feyre asked why they weren't matched, similar to Azriel's inquiry about why the third sister wasn't assigned to him.

However, you should also consider why she didn't want it to be Lucien. She held anger and weariness towards him for what transpired in the Spring Court.

Despite this, she continued to encourage Elain to get to know Lucien. She even went as far as showing her trust in Lucien again after the war and nudged Elain, who then invited him to live with them again.

She specifically pointed out how, throughout the rest of the year, Lucien was willing to turn a blind eye to those he had every reason to hate and be angry with, all to offer them help.

Azriel only said coldly, “If Lucien kills Graysen, then good riddance.” ... Lucien had encountered him, I realized. Somehow, in living with Jurian and Vassa at that manor, he’d run into Elain’s former betrothed. And managed to leave the human lord breathing.

Feyre observes Lucien literally fighting against his instincts.

She mentioned the lack of communication between Elain and Lucien but didn't mention the time Azriel and Elain spent together.

Feyre didn't ask Elain for her opinion on Azriel, remind her to reject the bond, or reinforce her belief that Elain and Azriel were a better match, even after their lengthy conversation during Solstice, especially in front of Rhys.

Feyre, Nesta, Cassian, and Rhys have all noticed and mentioned something about the Elucien dynamic that we, as readers, need to know.

But little about Elain and Azriel other than it's weird.

Even Nesta's observation over Azriel's brooding at Solstice:

Then his gaze shifted to Elain, and though it was utterly neutral, something charged went through it. Between them. Elain’s breath caught slightly, and she gave him a shallow nod of greeting before brushing past, leading Nesta into the room. Mor lounged on a green velvet couch before the fireplace;

Nesta didn't say anything about this exchange but she did have something to say about this:

Elain, the wretch, had taken the seat between Feyre and Varian, about as far from Lucien as she could get.

I also don't think that Nesta knows how Azriel felt about Elain either.

Azriel lingered near the door, quiet enough that when Feyre and Mor began talking about some of her paintings, Nesta went over to him. “Why don’t you sit?” She leaned against the doorway beside the shadowsinger. “My shadows don’t like the flames so much.” A pretty lie. She’d seen Azriel before the fire plenty. But she looked at who sat close to it and knew the answer.

I find it interesting that Nesta talked about exactly where Mor was sitting (in front of the fireplace), and it was Feyre and Mor who were conversing before she went up to Azriel. There was no mention of what Elain was doing at that time or how close to the fire she was sitting.

This once again highlights how E/riels tend to invalidate just how deeply Azriel felt for Mor and blatantly ignore all the obvious signs of his attraction to her, all in favor of their preferred ship.

Mor and Azriel had four books of in-your-face buildup as well, but it seems like SJM has made it now mean nothing.

Shadows darkened his eyes, full of enough pain that she couldn’t stop herself from touching his shoulder. Letting him see that she understood why he stood in the doorway, why he wouldn’t go near the fire. His secret to tell, never hers.

It's worth noting that Nesta's observation wasn't about her figuring out that Azriel liked Elain. Instead, it was her acknowledgment that Azriel was standing back, likely because he was hurt about something, and when he was ready to speak about it, he would.

If most of their "evidence" is based on events up to ACOSAF, and there is limited evidence from ACOSF, except of his bonus chapter that's canon for Elain but not for Gwyn with the exception of half a sentence, that's a pretty telling sign to me that SJM is moving away from that pairing. Conversely, in almost every instance where Lucien is mentioned, there is some form of connection to Elain, reminding us that SJM has not forgotten about them.

The only person who did take notice of E/riel was Rhys and had something definitive to say.

Considering how the inner circle typically reacts when Rhys says something, his words carry much more significant weight.

After all, even Feyre understood and forgiven Rhys for keeping the pregnancy risk hidden from her.

[tarjapearce]

Regarding Stealing and plagiarism by Fangweaver99/Miorjah

WARNING: LOTS AND LOTS OF TEXT AND PROOFS OF PLAGIARISM.

For a brief context to those that don't know, on June 20th I was notified through this post that there was a story that contained awfully simmilar ideas of my fic, Of Flowers and Humminfbirds. An idea that has been out for almost a year both here and A03.

As some of you may know, plagiarism has been part of my stance on this website. Not once, not twice, but thrice now with my stories.

However, as I said before, I will NOT tolerate more of this disrespectful behavior towards my work. The user in the post provided some proofs as you can see. However I took the liberty to see with my own eyes that not only some ideas were copied/tweaked. but also, parts of my fic that revolves mostly on the events of chapter 1,2 and 3 of OFAHB were taken.

Also, this is NOT an open invitation to harass them. Mind you, before I get accused of it again.

To starters, I'd like to clarify some things that might not be clear to people. Fangweaver themselves told me they had NEVER read my fanfiction, only my other work, called Miguelverse. Their friend approached me first with this BIG fat lie.

"They haven't read your fanfiction"

Now, If they haven't read it, why their name showed up in my kudos notification mail on MAY 5TH 2024? And their fic A Minor Slip Up was posted on 2024-06-15? Proof A:

Proof B: (If you go to my A03 profile on my fic, you can see it for yourself that their name is there.)

2. False accusations of harrasment done by their friend qphelia : Proof A:

Which was the opposite, as my ask box got filled by the same people over and over. (You can see it in my profile if you scroll down enough, along some claims they've done)

Proof B: (Didn't you just say that they were getting harrassed already?)

Which I did, they reached out an hour later, saying exactly the same.

Now regret of not reading their outline, cause they did send it. I was too angry to look at it.

Now. The plagiarism.

As most of you know, Comic Miguel is a cheater. He cheated on Xina Kwan with Dana D'Angelo, but he NEVER cheats on Dana. Some may say, "Yes, that has been done before where Miguel cheats on Dana" and you're right. However, cheating SPECIFICALLY on her in a gala, hosted by Alchemax and having sex in a workplace space, Isn´t canonical nor generic. It's from my authorship.

Of Flowers and Hummingbirds Chapter 1, Miguel and Reader Meeting and mentions of cheating:

Proof A, B & C of Fangweaver's fic, on Chapter 2 & 4:

A not so subtle hint to my 'underpaid receptionist' reader.

The span of time working for Alchemax. I know it sounds stupid, but it's there. Even that got used.

OFAHB Chapter 1:

Fangweaver's fic synopsis and proof A:

The Smut. You might think this is getting ridiculous but, it isn't.

In OFAHB chapter 1 There is a fingering scene, and some other dialogues that got tweaked/cherrypicked.

Fangweaver's fic on chapter 3:

Now, you think that's it but, sadly no.

In the aftermath of the cheating sex, in my fic, OFAHB chapter 1, they share a moment where reader falls to the floor and look for her panties. Then, they clean themselves up.

in Fangweaver's fic on chapter 4:

The reader's pregnancy suspicion:

On chapter 2 of OFAHB, Reader is struck with a nausea wave she thinks its food poisoning at first, then she faints and goes to Alchemax clinic where she is handed vitamins and a pregnancy test:

In Fangweaver's fic on chapter 7:

The confession:

OFAHB Chapter 3: Miguel and reader share a heated arguement, hinting at the baby isn't his.

On Fangweaver's fic, chapter 6:

----

Update: They've changed the synopsis of their work.

I could name a few more but in truth, it's pointless when the obvious is there. Sadly I've been pushed to put disclaimers in each of my stories, cause of this. It shouldn't happen, since we're supposed to be adults, knowing what's right and what's wrong. And if you know thievery is wrong, why doing it?

Credits won't be given because they know what they've done. What truly angered me were the accusations of harassment, and the OBVIOUS cynism on their end. Which reminds me, these three people are involved in the creation of that fic.

Although I know that there is no way to protect my work from people like this, it's truly discouraging for me as a content creator to have this sort of experiences in the fandom.

CREDIT ALWAYS . Don't go for the easy way. Don't disrespect people just for dumb shit as views and popularity.

-T.

--

[misrepresentedmorallygrey]

PROPAGANDA

Loki

The man has a dedicated fandom that woobifies him so hard it makes him completely unrecognizable. In their pursuit of making him a poor abused blorbo who never did anything wrong, they file off anything remotely interesting about him, often cherrypicking or completely ignoring canon to do so (and yes, I get it, MCU canon is frequently bad, but pathetic abused fandom!Loki isn't any better)

Key feature of Loki’s character is that he has done some bad things and Loki stans love to act like he never did anything wrong ever and everything he actually did do was justified, actually. Common headcannon is that Loki was mind controlled when he invaded the city of new york with an army of aliens, but I don’t believe this is canon (it may have been gestured at in some recent like. Print materials. But fans have been making this claim since 2012). More egregious to me is when people act like everything loki did in the first Thor movie was justified because his father Odin was really really mean to him, as if in the first Thor movie Loki didn’t try to COMMIT GENOCIDE!!!!!!!!! WHAT?????????????? STOP

Bobbi Morse

She is a heroic character and I love her dearly but we ABSOLUTELY gloss over the terrible things she's done while undercover. She's a high ranking SHIELD agent who managed to pass herself off as HYDRA so convincingly that she was working as their head of security. Selling out Kara Palamas is probably the least of the terrible things she's done- at least the consequences of that weren't intentional. Her conversation with a captured Bakshi suggests that there's a whole lot worse lurking in her past, and it's sheer dumb luck that the rest of the team, and the audience, never have to face it directly

[utilitycaster]

@spiderdreamer-blog replied to your post “The Problem With Canon”:

Oh I wanna hear the CR examples

The ones I have in mind are:

The Lucien novel that just came out; I have yet to see criticism that didn't boil down to "this didn't match my headcanons so it's bad" and like, it's fine if you don't like it, and I don't think it's above criticism (I mean if you follow me in any capacity you will find that I think very little is above criticism, even the things I love), but there was nothing that struck me as out of character or not fitting with existing canon.

The upcoming Nein one-shot; I completely respect being upset that Caduceus won't be there! But it's incorrect to say this is out of character or missing the point of his arc when Caduceus spends the last ten episodes being like "I want to go home, I love you people but I am so tired of this, I wish I had never had to leave, this should have been Calliope's story" to the point of choosing to stay at the Blooming Grove before the rest of the Mighty Nein split up in Nicodranas.

People wanting Calamity to show the Betrayer gods as being ~*complex*~ and the Prime deities as ~*flawed*~ which was just absolutely bizarre, like, we've established, repeatedly, in canon, that the Betrayer gods do in fact want to destroy all people in the world and that Asmodeus will play the wounded gazelle gambit to anyone. Again, fine if you want this, I guess, but that was never canon; you're upset that your personal philosophy isn't being validated.

Percy's depiction in Campaign 3; I am a fan of Percy but if you think he would for one second be generous to a total stranger who could potentially bring back Delilah Briarwood, what precisely are you watching. I think most headcanons of Percy, and to an extent Vox Machina, ignore that they were a remarkably insular and unwelcoming bunch of people.

While the post-hiatus Mighty Nein episodes are part of the same work and are not a sequel/prequel per se, I do think that the long gap between episodes 99 and 100 (and that gap being during lockdown) also means, as many people have pointed out, people watched ship compilation videos on repeat for four months and then got mad that canon was more than a handful of cherrypicked moments.

[beyondthetemples-ooc]

For my own personal reference re: Dove eventually getting therapy:

The canonical therapist is named Jana. (Pre-boot canon, anyways, but I already cherrypick what I want from comics vs. cartoon, so what harm can a little continuity picking do?)

So according to the comicvine page here:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/jana-bodie/4005-77183/

Jana appears in: The 2011 Zatanna series, issues 1, 8, and 11, and a Zatanna TPB from 2017. (Which might contain the same issues?)

....I've been wanting to read more about Zatanna for years, anyways.

(Kinda tempted to see what that post is talking about re: Sanctuary in Heroes in Crisis, but I didn't like the way that story handled my favorite characters, so I'm not too keen on reading THAT.)

Note-taking to come below the cut as I skin through to glean some canon tidbits.

From the excerpt I've already seen: I know her office seems to change its appearance (maybe shift its entire reality around?) based on her clients. Probably what they'd be the most comfortable in.

I forgot to remember it, but Jana herself seems to change shape, too!

I wonder if her changing form is a thing she does intentionally? Does she ask each client what they'd be most comfortable talking to her as? Because if she goes on What the Client Is, I think it could be really interesting if she takes a demon form upon meeting Dove, which Greatly Concerns Dove, until she explains that no, no she REALLY identifies more with her (mostly) human half and would very much prefer that form, please.

I just reread the excerpt on the post, and noticed her office seems to be accessible through otherdimensional means. Going there would probably disorient Dove quite a bit. (Which could give them a reason to work on her emet*phobia because traveling like that tends to get her senses and her stomach worked up. I don't think It Would Happen^tm, but she'd still be nervous and unsettled.)

"All are welcome to consult with her"-- that would probably relieve a sticking point for Dove. Trigon is canonically known in mystic circles, so Jana probably knows about him, right? So Dove would have learned He's Well Known and would worry Jana would refuse to treat her for it if she found out who her father is. That might be one of the things that Dove doesn't Specify until after several sessions. (Jana could probably tell Dove isn't keen to talk about it, and would probably ask why. But Dove wouldn't tell her without a lot of trust being built up first.)

Also, "her office is a neutral zone between realities". So maybe Dove wouldn't be AS disoriented as usual when she's traveling between facets of reality, but she could still mention that she was nervous to go there because it USUALLY makes her feel unwell?

(Azarath was described as being "between the dimensions", so maybe it's actually reassuringly EASY for her to get there? Dove physically has Azarathean blood, after all!)

And judging by Zatanna meditating in a circle of candles and the visualization of a ghostly form re-entering her: You need to astral project to get to Dr. Bodie's office? I mean, Dove can DO that but she'd probably need help. (She's much better at meditation as an adult than a teen, but astral projection isn't on her specialty list.) Maybe that's where I can have Raven come in: Helping Dove GET there the first time, but she won't STAY there.

(giggles to myself in Nexus reference that nobody will ever catch, probably.)

Actually? Hell, I've written Dove trying the soul-self thing a couple times! It never goes very well for Dove. Maybe this can be how she learns to do it Her Way, even if she's not as delineated between physical and astral bodies as Raven is.

Srentha could definitely help her Get there, though. Traveling between dimensions is one of HIS Specialties^tm.

[dirigibleplumbing]

Dean losing Cas in Purgatory = Dean never leaving Purgatory as an in person or remote confession makes Dean unable to even learn wtf happened. And he starts hunting and tearing thru Purgatory again and eventually Chuck gets bored of his finale not happening the way he wants and either yanks Dean out or even gives Dean a way to get Cas out (like he’s done before) just to move the story along lol.

(Maybe it turns out you die in Purgatory you go too the Empty (there’s the answer to your philosophical question Cas!) and thus the “Rescue Cas from the Empty” arc begins and we can have Benny help along with the dead angels as a treat. Throw in Emma or something. Maybe it wasn’t actually the case re-Purgatory death = Empty but again Chuck didn’t think about it and he needs his story to move thanks so he ass pulls and retcons it)

Yesss, I love the horrible mental place Dean would get to if he confessed during the prayer in “The Trap” and then never found Cas again. That’s an angstfic all on its own.

I agree, Chuck intervening would probably be the only way Dean would leave.

I like the idea of it turning into an Empty rescue arc. I could take or leave Emma--I’ve actually never finished watching the episode she’s in! When an episode gets bad or boring enough, I’ll just straight-up give up. If it’s super plot-important I might fast-forward. But I’m in the habit of just skipping that one, so I mostly know it from wank posts and samcrit bullshit. It works out nicely for me: I’m not mad at what Sam did in that episode, because to me it’s not real.

This is a technique I’ve gained from a few years in a comics fandom, and I highly recommend it! Especially for a long-running canon like SPN. In comics fandom, yes, we hate it when our fave is mischaracterized or the victim of a bad writer or a stupid arc or poisoned by how they were written for a movie, and we definitely complain about it, but we also cherrypick what we consider canon--that’s what the professional comics writers do, after all. And that’s definitely what SPN writers do, too! (Don’t get me started on reaper lore in SPN, omg.)

So Emma can exist in fic, but I probably won’t care much, and if she were to appear in another episode of SPN... well if Benny and/or Claire and/or Jack were there too I might still watch it, but I’d be grumpy about it :P

[woodswolf]

really really long thoughts on aini and how it could've been made WAY better if they just changed a few little things with regards to its "background canon" i.e. from ai 1. full spoilers for ai 1 and aini, minor (ending) spoilers for the zero escape series.

the worst part of aini is really just that uchikoshi really wrote the most compelling emotional found family drama plotline EVER that's as close to perfectly executed as it's possible for anything to be and SO much better than everything else around it and then said "actually that was an offshoot timeline and didn't technically happen! this much more underwhelming series of events (but where the characters figure out Exactly What Went Down) is what Really happened."

its like... yes in Any Other Case with Any Other Series this would be pretty obviously the only option. zero escape for instance couldn't continue from anything but the true ending for each game because that series presents itself as brute-forcing meta progress in order to unlock the full truth. like, if you take any "ending" in zero escape, you're still not getting the full story? e.g. dio end in vlr still isn't THE END in bold font with a period at the end bc they still have to actually figure out how to get everyone out with their lives, which can't happen without forcing all of the progress in the morphogenetic field by getting all the endings. even if they WANTED to it wouldn't make sense to make a sequel to dio end - most of the cast would be dead or dying and they're Still trapped so its just. yeah. it just wouldn't really work. the only exceptions of endings they could make sequels to are like, the safe ending in 999 (bc SOME of the cast survives to theoretically escape - there's a really cool fic series that explores this (part 1 / part 2) by spacedaydreamer on ao3), ztd's true end, and ztd's pre-vlr end (which they kinda literally did make a "sequel" to lmao). nothing else would really work due to the setup constraints.

but aitsf as a series is fundamentally Built Different and in that sense it's very very smart. the fact that it's built up like a serial with each game focused around a single case unrelated to any others means that it's very modular - you could reasonably make a sequel to ai 1 that's set after ANY of the endings (minus like, annihilation, where basically the entire cast is dead, and iris ending bc thats the only other end where a (likeable) character from the first game explicitly dies) because there aren't any pressing constraints on chronology that couldn't be overlooked or brushed aside for the sake of keeping it modular. like, saito is DEFINITELY still alive and running around killing people after ota's ending, which would naturally lead to it becoming annihilation... 2!!! if we got to see that actually play out - but that happens off-screen, so we could just Ignore It Tm and have the gang move on to the next case after the new cyclops killer "mysteriously disappeared" or whatever. same thing for iris - she could just eventually wake up as her normal self because we're never explicitly told that so sejima is in iris's body after ota's ending. just ignore it in favor of preserving a good character! aitsf isn't like zero escape where a potential plot hole like this could ruin the whole series - capitalize on that to carefully pick and choose the best elements of each game to make permanent "background canon". it doesn't HAVE to make COMPLETE sense or fit together EXACTLY - just cherrypick the best and most memorable moments that you want to keep as core canon.

which is the biggest problem with aini being set after ai 1's resolution route - nothing of what happens in it is really built on. and yeah, it makes sense - everyone who got the most development in ai 1's resolution route (i.e. date, iris, hitomi) is reduced to more side character status here - but i don't care about things making sense as much as them being good. and ai 1's resolution route is... fine. it's fine! but the writing quality on the right half of ai 1's flowchart is Not As Good compared to the left half and it really shows on repeat playthroughs. (the feels-like-it's-two-hours-long recap of falco's entire backstory is really shit to have to sit through when you already know all of it - and that's only ONE of the problems with the resolution ending, there are WAY MORE.) there are only like three things that are explicitly carried over from the resolution ending:

iris being Definitely Alive and Still Herself (which like, yeah, this is the only ending where that happens, but ota's and mizuki's endings still have her body being alive, and with the "just make it a plot hole" scheme that i outlined earlier they could literally just Ignore That and have her still be alive. AND they could give her a cool AIball that she could be soooooo normal about on her twitch streams like this is literally perfect ok)

so sejima being Definitely Alive and Still Himself (for all of the TWO scenes he's relevant for like wow good job. DEFINITELY couldn't have filled his role with a new sleazy politician character instead no sir )

datomi real (which like, Yes resolution is the only ending where this is Really set up, but it honestly could've happened after any ending (except annihilation bc hitomi's obviously dead RIP). those two took one (1) look at each other, shot the Autism Beams into each other's eyes, and then fell in love (as you do). it was just kinda Bound To Happen Anyway, the only difference would be how much they know about how date was falco yadda yadda and honestly imo i liked the idea of datomi better before i knew date was falco but this post isn't about that)

that's... really not a lot? and considering that all of this has to do with characters that are reduced to like, background status at best if even that (iirc hitomi LITERALLY only shows up for three scenes, one of which is over in like 30 seconds; iris's appearance count is in the very low double digits at best; and date is still important but only when NEITHER of those characters are in the room) it just. aini being set after ai 1's resolution ending doesn't really Add anything, and i would further argue that it's actually actively bad compared to the other and most obvious option!

let's stop kidding ourselves; you all knew when you clicked in here that i was going to talk about this, the only reason i started writing this is because i wanted to talk about this, and everyone is tired of ignoring the elephant in the room. so let's stop beating around the bush: aini is made actively worse by not being set after ai 1's mizuki ending, and almost everything about the game comes off like the whole development team knew this and still chose not to go through with it.

where to START with how fucked this is, honestly - though i guess the best place is probably the beginning for multiple reasons. if you didn't know about this already (because you're an epic gamer who managed to avoid all of the evil Ryukis during the parts of the first psync where they're chasing you - i only got hit by the last set on my first playthrough), now's a good time for you to go replay the first psync in aini and see what happens when you hit all of the ryukis instead of avoiding them.

through ryuki's repeated reverse psyncs, we get to see that, on some level, mizuki still remembers the events of her ending from ai 1. the "do you know the culprit" room is straight-up the setup from PSYNCIN' IN THE CAPTaiN, down to the bowl of soup and adorabbit cursing mizuki forever, with various memorable imagery from PSYNCIN' IN THE PaiN scattered about the room. and from there, getting caught by the Ryuki chases gives us four "scenes":

the merry go round column's door

the left birdcage from PSYNCIN' IN THE PaiN with the picture taped back together

adorabbit dangling from balloons

the setup from the end of PSYNCIN' IN THE CAPTaiN with date vs shoko and renju, with the models replaced by the neon "anonymous person" figures

this is obviously the events that happened during mizuki's ending in chronological order - mizuki hides in the column, date and aiba help her in the psync, mizuki thinks about all that date's done for her (shown abstractly through adorabbit), and finally the ending of PSYNCIN' IN THE CAPTaiN.

this is like, really good. it's exactly the kind of throwback reference that works with or without knowledge of the first game and still has an effect. for players that haven't played ai 1 it's "damn, what does all of THIS mean and why is one of the main characters thinking about it? i wonder if there's a bit of background material where i could learn more!", and for players that have played ai 1 it's like "aww, mizuki remembers all that happened in her ending on some level, that's sweet <3".

but it's like. do you see the problem with this. i SHOULD just be able to say something like, "oh, that's a convenient throwback/recap!" or "it must've affected her real bad for it to be the first thing that her somnium calls up even after literal years :(" but i don't get to say any of that. instead, we as the audience are left to wonder how she even remembers any of this FOR it to be in her somnium because none of it even happened in this timeline!

and like, yeah, aini's whole point is all the meta shit, or at least it is significantly more so than it was in ai 1. theoretically it could make sense that mizuki remembers everything she was present for in ai 1 whether it technically happened in this timeline or not because we're the "frayer" and she's one of the "frayer characters" (though ryuki fulfills his role as a "frayer character" slightly better than mizuki does because he's so fucked up with the meta levels) and therefore knows a bit more than she realistically should, the same way date did a few times in ai 1. but something being "theoretically possible due to meta shit" is nowhere near as compelling as "this actually happened to you over half a decade ago, and you're still not really normal about it because you CAN'T be normal about it because it kinda-sorta-maybe messed with your mental state just a little bit because it was a really important part of your development as a person that ultimately ended in tragedy (i.e. date's "death" in the cathedral) despite your own best efforts (i.e. PSYNCIN' IN THE CAPTaiN)". one of these explanations is not like the other in that it positions mizuki's character on much stronger footing that could be further built up on her side.

now we go from the part where this changes from passively bad to actively bad, which is basically right at the end of the game. mizuki day 5: they all find the corpse in the freezer, and then mizuki sees date and gets to talk to him for the first time in 6 years... and this is what happens:

i hate this SO MUCH because it was SO CLOSE to being good. and literally ALL it needs to be good is to be set after the mizuki ending (with minor rewrites to match).

now maybe this doesn't FEEL that bad. but think about This version instead (changes in green):

Date: What? Do you have more insults to hurl at me after missing six years of your life? Mizuki: No, it's not that... Bibi: Maybe she just wanted to hear you say... Bibi: "Mizuki, you've grown so much," or something emotional like that... Mizuki: No, not that either... Date: Ah, right. For you, it's been six years. Date: For me, it's different. Date: I've been back for four days, dressed like this. I've been watching you guys the whole time. Date: So I don't really have anything sappy to say... Mizuki: I told you, it's not that! Mizuki: You already know what I want. Date: ... Date: All right, okay. Date: Let me try this again. Date: Mizuki... Date: ... Date: I'm home... Mizuki: ... Mizuki: Welcome back, Date... Mizuki: But I had something else I wanted to say, too. Date: ...? Mizuki: I threw away all your porno mags. Date: Nooooooo!!!

just LOOK at how this already reads so much stronger. it gives mizuki so much more emotional strength - exactly the kind of emotional strength that she had in the mizuki ending, because she's already had all of this development before. the last change is rather subtle and hard to convey through text alone, as it'd be much more through the facial expression and voice direction, but that line would be much better if it was read as "shit-eating-grin-but-also-trying-not-to-cry" emotion instead of kinda timid and almost tense like how it actually is in the game.

this conversation just plainly and succinctly reveals everything fundamentally wrong with setting aini after ai 1's resolution route instead of mizuki's ending. the way that mizuki just doesn't have the words for what she wants from date, the way that aiba has to call her out on what she wants and then mizuki is just... shocked?

which really just brings everything around to the core reason that aini is made so much worse by not being set after the mizuki ending: mizuki doesn't have the character development that she got during her ending and it makes her character a lot weaker overall. and, because of the way things have been set up, she can never get that development again unless it's off-screen.

which is really sad! like, SO much of what everyone liked about her in ai 1 was specifically the development she and date got during her ending, and she's the protagonist of this game so you'd think that they'd let her keep that good development! but mizuki gets shafted for the entirety of ai 1's resolution route, and as a result she and date never really had those moments where they CHOOSE to be family. which just... really flattens her character. and it affects WAY more than just this scene.

now's about the time where i say how i would rewrite aini to fix all of this, and honestly, very little would have to actually change in a meta sense - it's just the smallest tweaks and rewrites of single lines in a few places. the way id have it play out would be like this:

on mizuki's side, on the days where we're playing as mizuki instead of bibi, mizuki would be more openly Not Happy that date "died" six years ago in the cathedral and coping pretty poorly. like she's not weeping over him in every conversation, just every so often when he gets brought up she just kinda Stops Talking or gets teary. the general impression should be that this was a really deep wound (which like, after everything that happened in the mizuki ending and then date ACTUALLY DIES? YEAH NO FUCKING KIDDING) and that she'd only just started to heal only for it to be violently ripped open again with the return of the HB case. aiba should be acting as mizuki's crutch and parent figure - and it should clearly help, because mizuki and aiba actually know each other and are family in the mizuki end instead of never even being introduced in the resolution route.

meanwhile, on the days we're playing as bibi: bibi obviously isn't torn up about date's "death", both because it hasn't happened yet and also because bibi and date barely even know each other - so of course bibi doesn't want nor need aiba's comfort about this. aiba and bibi will seem slightly more distant as a result, because they barely know each other, either. until the reveal of the chronology twist, the player will think that this is just one of the days where mizuki is coping better with what happened and trying to focus on the investigation - and it can simultaneously be another hint toward that chronology twist, and make the "mandela effect in real time" that happens on mizuki day 4 stand out even more as "wait, there's obviously something wrong here".

barely anything else would have to actually change. and what do we get out of this? well - a lot.

for one, the "spoiler toggle" is no longer necessary at all, or is barely necessary. the characters barely know anything of the truth in the mizuki ending. date is still in saito's body and he doesn't even know saito's name, he doesn't remember anything about falco, he didn't discover the body-swapping secret. and considering that absolutely zero of that matters in aini anyway and it more often causes problems (like with date's "mask" - like, yes, the implicit confirmation that date experienced MEGA dysmorphia after ai 1's resolution route was good because i'd called that back in 2019, but it's not ever brought up nor touched on again and could be written out without anything changing), setting aini after the mizuki ending just removes a lot of the clumsiness around this and makes everything... smoother.

the only thing that's slightly off about this would be that, obviously, iris is technically already dead in the mizuki ending in ai 1. but, as i said earlier, this is such an obvious and acceptable handwave that i would be mad if that was the reason they chose to set aini after the resolution route. aini already does other handwaves like this, such as everything around mizuki being adopted by shoko and renju, and this would be a handwave for a worthy cause! iris is such a good character, and because they never figure out the body swapping twist in the mizuki end, it's very easy to handwave that she's Still Definitely Herself Tm and keep a really good character. worst case scenario you can stick something in the appendix like "technically iris would already be dead in the mizuki ending but SHUT UP!!! this is an offshoot timeline where the mizuki ending happened but she's still alive just enjoy the story <3".

(and like. iris having an AIball after she loses her eye in the mizuki ending would be SO funny. she wouldn't even be a psyncer she'd just beg pewter for one and pewter would be like "Fine. Ok Fine." it'd be pink with a rainbow segment and its eyeball form would look like a TBH and it'd play multiplayer shovelforge and/or kusemon and/or towerday (fortnite) doubles with her. LITERAL comedy gold potential here.)

i could write a lot more about how this would specifically improve things, but i think this just about sums up most of my thoughts in general. tl;dr aini's main plot could be so much better if they set it after ai 1's mizuki ending, though it still wouldn't be a perfect game bc the side routes minus shoma and komeji's have Other problems that this wouldn't fix. aini is also still overall better than ai 1 imo because it just builds and earns its climax better than ai 1 does. in ai 1 you can get the best ending in the first 8 hours and have everything else be all downhill from there, but aini just always gets bigger and better and its resolution route actually earns everything it does. both games still have problems though, and i think 999 is still overall a better game than either of them even if i like ai's characters a lot more. so yea!

(also someone PLEASE draw iris being soooooooooooooo normal with her AIball this needs to exist so bad)

[pluckyredhead]

No one asked for this, but I felt like writing up how I generally work out DC character ages and the sort of mini-generations I group them into. Canon is super contradictory on this, so this is a combination of cherrypicking what works for my purposes, ignoring what doesn’t, and Vibes.

(Which is to say, please don’t Um Actually this, even though I know people will. It’s just how I think of the characters. You can make Dick a hundred and three in your head if you want, I can’t stop you.)

I’m focusing on “the kids” (roughly Dick’s cohort on down) because quite frankly it’s a lot harder to pin down anyone older. Also let’s be honest, Bruce has got to be pushing 50 by now and DC will never allow that.

32: Babs. I’m pretty sure she’s supposed to be younger than Dick these days, but for decades she was older than him - like, definitely a grownup with a job when he was still in high school - and I stand by that. Honestly by that logic she should probably be even older, but...vibes.

28: Dick, Roy, Donna, Wally, Garth. I have arrived at this number thusly: Dick was stated to be 20 right around the time Jason died at 15, making him 5 years older than Jason. Jason returned to Gotham at 19 (we’re ignoring the 6 months he was dead because I don’t know how to count that), right before Damian debuted at 10. This makes Jason 9 years older than Damian and Dick 14 years older than Damian. Damian is currently canonically 14, thus Dick is 28. YES this is ignoring that the age difference between Dick and Jason was bigger when Jason debuted at 12, YES this is ignoring that Dick had been in college for like a decade by the time Wally started looking at schools so they might not be the same age, YES this is ignoring the time Garth spent aging in another dimension. I do what I want, Thor.

27: Vic, Kori, Raven, Joey. There’s no real indication that they are younger than the OG Titans just because they show up later, but...vibes.

25: Gar, Kyle, the Infinity Inc kids (Jen, Todd, Al, etc.). Gar is canonically 2-3 years younger than the rest of the team during NTT, and Kyle is canonically an unspecified few years younger than Donna but still old enough to have gone to college. (We’re ignoring the issue with his 10 year high school reunion.)

I put the Infinitors here because Jen and Kyle dated for a long time, which doesn’t mean they’re the exact same age - I am not troubled by age gaps - but I had to put them somewhere, and at least when they were still on Earth 2 they were younger than Dick. They’re tricky because most of their parents have been around since WWII, but...we’re just gonna ignore that because I don’t know how to fix it. (Even Al’s Golden Age grandfather is pushing things quite a bit.) Like yeah, you could make the case that they’re all actually in their 70s, but I can’t imagine they’re much older than 25 because of the whole Al/Courtney plotline. This one is entirely vibes, just go with it.

23: Jason, Connor, Koryak. Jason’s math is above. Connor was 19 when Tim was 16 which is the same age difference as Jason and Tim, meaning Connor is Jason’s age. Koryak too, mostly because I feel like it.

21: Tommy. Tommy is old enough to drink beer without any adults protesting, but young enough to be lumped in with the kids who are canonically in high school. So.

19: Grant, Toni. Grant is old enough to be out of high school, but young enough to have been roughly a peer to Tim and Bart (he was canonically 16 when Bart was canonically 14), so I generally place him here. Toni was the other “kid” on the 1999 Titans team so let’s make her the same age as Grant, why not.

18???: Ohhh, Tim. Timothy Jackson Drake, what am I going to do with you? By the math I laid out before, he should actually be 20 if he aged at the same rate as Jason and Damian. He has in fact nudged up against the edge of graduating high school multiple times in canon, only to get bumped back down to Generically Sixteenish. So where do we put him? Do we age him in accordance with everyone else, or do we treat him as Nonspecifically Teen-Shaped the way canon does? I have decided to unhappily split the difference here and make him 18, but I reserve the right to ignore that in specific fics. (Let! Tim! Go! To! College!) Anyway needless to say this thus also applies to Kon, Bart, Cassie, Cissie, Mia, Courtney, Lorena, and like a dozen others. (I mean, Kon is like 4 and Bart is like -996, but...physically.)

17: Jon. Canon as of the most recent issue of his solo book.

16: Wallace, Emiko, Jackson, most of the rest of their Titans lineup. See, this is the mini-generation that should get to be Generically Sixteenish right now! Stop being so selfish, Tim!

14: Damian. Canon as of his current solo series.

8: Lian was introduced right before Jason’s death (she wasn’t born then, but figuring out how old she is at her debut is a nightmare of Men Don’t Understand Childbirth Recovery Periods Or How To Draw Babies, so we’re ignoring that), when Roy was 20, and he’s 28 now. Of course, Lian was aged up by Infinite Frontier, but we’re also ignoring that, except for fics where I want her to be on Damian’s Titans team. Same goes roughly for the West twins, who canonically are all over the place age-wise so I can do whatever I want.

???: Rose. She was in Tim’s peer group from her debut until the New 52 and now she seems to ricochet between Jason and Damian’s ages at will, so...who the hell knows? If I had to pick, I’d put her closer to Jason so that she can be on his imaginary Titans lineup that never was, but...shrug??? ROSE YOU ARE A WOMAN OF MYSTERY.

[ruby-whistler]

(Just for time- any name I refer in here is all character unless specified!)

Nah, cause I'm convinced that the vault was 100% a set up and there's so much that is just left unexplained that proves that:

The Elevator

The Polished Blackstone room

The Gold/highly lit stand for the discs

The enderportal

The attachments

The Avenger's Endgame bullshit at the end

Ranboo

(1) - I don't know why, but this was one of the bigger ones to annoy the hell out of me as to why it looked so complicated. Dream- as far as I remember- hasn't had that many creations with such complex machinery/redstone engineering. Even more so to the extent of making an elevator that can function going up and down with a platform big enough to fit multiple people on.

(1) - Not only that, but we never even got to see the inner workings of the redstone itself- it may seem like an unnecessary detail, but as far as I'm aware, not many people are able to make redstone this complex in order to properly function as an elevator (in Minecraft terms). Dream just doesn't seem to fit within that category because- again, as far as I'm aware- the most complicated redstone device he's made has been the doomsday one, and even then, it wasn't even that complicated- nowhere near the level enough to make an entire elevator by himself.

(2) - Maybe it's because of the amount of times I've seen Dream login to the server and how infrequent it had been in the past, but I don't see how Dream could mine up so much Polished Blackstone, especially to use in this specific purpose. Dream doesn't even have many structures to his name, even his own base doesn't even have any materials that could suggest he would need extra Blackstone for. If it had been made out of obsidian, I could believe it considering all that material had been used for walls around L'Manburg. (Plus, it's been confirmed by the CCs that creative mode is barely used as is, so this makes mining this much Blackstone/Polished Backstone make even less sense.)

(2) - I feel like this is strongly indicated with how much Ranboo had been supposedly mining at the time and had a ridiculously low durability on his tool set so often, sure he could be mining for something totally unrelated, but if that were the case- why would he be so "unaware" of why his tools are so low to begin with?

(3) - Now this is where the bullshit meter starts kicking higher. Why would Dream display the real discs so proudly and in such a gaudy manner, especially when it functionally served no purpose? Not even the walls he had around L'Manburg or the obsidian grid were as flashy. Gold floors, bright lights, the portraits of the discs side to side by the very clear escape portal™, hell, they were even positioned to be directly in front of the elevator so that Tommy and Tubbo would first notice them and would try to run for them. AND THERE WERE TWO ENDERCHESTS RIGHT NEXT TO THE PORTALS AND THE DISCS.

(3) - What kind of Saturday cartoon evil villain™ leaves such an obvious flaw, even when taking into account that Dream is supposedly a strategist? What kind of strategic mastermind would leave an interdimentional chest that could potentially have back up gear and various other items to assist his enemies out in the open like that especially next to a portal where they could easily escape? Not even Jack Manifold would make such an oversight like that.

(4) - The placements of the portal and where Dream, Tommy, and Tubbo all stopped off at the end of Dream's grandiose speech were all much to convenient/coincidental. It was like it was choreographed so that when Dream was specifically away for the duo, Punz and whoever else would be able to step in and "separate/rescue" the two from the big bad Dream despite the fact that Dream could've easily killed the two if he really wanted to by being near and crit'ing them out.

(4) - Plus, the portal was already lit. Which leads directly to where they would've been. Again, from a strategic standpoint that makes no god damn sense. Why leave an obvious portal out in the open like this so that your enemies could try and come and find the people you're trying to supposedly kill?

(5) - Oh yeah, but the bullshit alarm is blaring. Albeit with a bit of wavering doubt, I thought that the attachments room was the most solid part of the plan, at least, if we're going with the mindset that Dream's ultimate goal was to take control of attachments, force everyone to be friends/unified again, and achieve his ultimate goal of peace and unity on the server. But as I thought more on it, some of the attachments... Don't make sense for Dream to know.

(5) - How did Dream know about someone having an attachment that was bedrock? How did Dream know about Punz's shulker box? (I know Drista gave it to him and cc!Dream was there for that, but canonically it makes no sense.) Why did Dream specifically think that Enderchest was Ranboo's only primary attachment? How did Dream know about Dogchamp despite Purpled and him never properly meeting in canon?

(5) - Sure Dream could've gone snooping around and managed to find out, but some of these attachments he doesn't even properly know of unless he had to walk up to someone and be like: So hey, what are you emotionally attached to that would make you utterly destroyed when it's gone? :D

(6) - How in the ever loving fuck did everyone manage to get there?

(6) - This one is clear that Punz lead the charge on this one, but why did everyone flat out believe him? Beforehand, everyone was deadset on staying back, regardless if it was on Tommy and Tubbo's word. But Punz? Alone? He managed to convince everyone? Even if they had a neutral opinion on Dream, to go with him to the vault to rescue the two? Nobody questioned how he even knew about where the portal to the vault is, or that it even had a portal? Nobody? Not a single soul? Or how nobody even questioned how Punz knew that Dream had taken the two down there and didn't just send them off into their own exile?

(7) - Ranboo rarely ever metas about the lore. Unlike most CCs in the DSMP, cc!Ranboo has a particular way of making sure that chat doesn't spoil him on plot points going on, so I highly doubt he would "accidentally" recite Dream's speech, word for word, bar for bar in a room he hadn't even been in yet. Nor even was there for (it's heavily hinted that Enderwalk was present during the confrontation instead). Plus, although it was confirmed unintentional by the CCs later on, Ranboo and Dream were both staring at each other, and I don't think it was to keep him in place- considering Enderwalk went to go visit Dream as often as he could before his ban and Enderwalk seemed to be on good terms with Dream even before the whole Doomsday Era.

Nah, the whole confrontation makes no sense, even down to the cherrypicking examples of it all. If it somehow gets confirmed that the confrontation wasn't staged and that Dream was somehow this cocky, I won't make a fuss, but I'm not gonna be entirely too thrilled at the idea.

But contrary to popular belief, I don't think Dream did this with only Punz or Enderwalk, I think those three were the main ones to set up this whole thing, but considering the redstone and the attachments that Dream wasn't supposed to know of. I don't know, but something about that screams like there was one other involved, the question is- who would also help Dream like Punz or Enderwalk too?

This one is an old one, but I absolutely agree. The Disc War finale is, with all due respect, either egregious writing with no character continuity in the slightest, or c!Dream faked the whole thing. It's way too suspicious not to be obvious. That's a banger analysis.

[northoftheroad]

What’s in a retcon, anyway?

The more I think about, the less I believe that comic book writers feel compelled to be bound by earlier writing. Unless an editor is keeping them under their thumb to get coherent writing – and if DC had that, things wouldn't be such a mess – it seems to me they are happy to blend their personal variant of a canon backstory. I will present a number of examples to support my hypothesis.

Pre-Crisis, Marv Wolfman wrote Dick saying he was Robin from age 8 (New Teen Titans #39, 1984), and he’s about 19 at the time. 

New Teen Titans # 39. By Marv Wolfman, art George Pérez. (1984)

When Crisis on Infinite Earths reached Batman, Jim Starlin wrote the retcon that said that Dick was Robin for six years, presumably from age 13 to 19. (Batman # 416, 1987). This version also included that Bruce fired Dick from Robin, but more on that later.

Batman # 416. By Jim Starlin, art Jim Aparo and Mike DeCarlo. (1987)

And then Marv Wolfman wrote Batman Year Three (Batman # 436–439, 1989), and all of a sudden, it was ten years since Dick's parents were killed when Jason had recently died. That has to imply that Dick was Robin for longer than six years, right? And that Dick was about ten when he came to Bruce.

The following year, 1990, Dennis O'Neal wrote an illustrated short story about Dick's origin where he was ten when his parents were murdered. (The Glimpse. In Secret Origins vol 2 # 50, 1990)

Dennis O'Neal, by the way, was the editor of Batman # 416 and co-editor of Batman Year Three (Batman 436–439). He should be the guy to keep track of details like this, shouldn't he?

Then we have Chuck Dixon's version of Dick's origin in Robin vol 2 Annual # 4 (1995). This retcon includes that Dick spent time at a youth centre before he came to Bruce (the "juvie origin"), but his age is never mentioned. He doesn't look old enough to be 13, in my opinion.

The next decade, Devin Grayson had Dick say, in at least two different issues, that he was orphaned at 8. (Batman: Gotham Knights # 21. By Devin Grayson, art Roger Robinson and John Floyd (2001), and Nightwing vol 2 # 76. 2003) Just as in (the Pre-Crisis) NTT # 39.

Nightwing vol 2 # 76. By Devin Grayson, art Mike Lilly and Andy Owens. (2001)

Does that mean Devin Grayson also intended to rewrite other retcons that came after the Crisis – so that Dick wasn't fired from Robin and/or Dixon's "juvie origin"?

It’s difficult to say, since she never did write her own version of Dick’s origin. I can't remember her Nightwing run mentioning either how Dick left Robin or what had happened before he moved in with Bruce. (Actually, I can't remember any writer, besides Chuck Dixon himself, referencing the "juvie origin".) But Devin Grayson wrote Dick talking about being left in an orphanage in Gotham Knight # 21, in a context where he surely would have said “left at the youth centre” if she had ment to stick with Dixon’s version. 

Batman: Gotham Knights # 21. By Devin Grayson, art Roger Robinson and John Floyd. (2001)

After Flashpoint, in the new origin story, Dick was 15 when he was orphaned. (Nightwing vol 3 # 0, 2012) But in Rebirth Batman # 54 (2018), by Tom King, Dick is drawn way younger in a flashback, and he’s been shown younger in the Nightwing title too. 

Two more examples of canon jumping all over the place are Jason Todd's origin and how Dick left Robin to become Nightwing. Dick originally left by his own decision, because he felt Robin was the junior partner to Batman while he had outgrown that, but the Post-Crisis on Infinite Earth retcon was that Bruce fired Dick. First, in Batman # 408, because he got scared when the Joker shot Robin. Later, in Chuck Dixon's version (in Nightwing: Secret Files and Origin, and Nightwing Year One, Nightwing vol 2 100–106), Bruce fired Dick at ostensibly because Robin wasn't available enough when Batman needed assistance.

Again, after Dixon, I can't remember any writer referencing that Dick should have been outright fired as Robin.

Jason Todd was introduced as a strawberry blond, circus kid Dick Grayson clone but after Crisis on Infinite Earths he was a black-haired street kid. And when Dick originally left Robin, it was his choice to let Jason become Robin. Post-Crisis, Batman made Jason Robin – and while Dick might not have been on good terms with Bruce, he did accept Jason as Robin.

Fast forward to the 2010s. When Grant Morrison wrote Batman, and Batman and Robin vol 1, he re-introduced Jason Todd with red-blond hair – but not his Pre-Crisis personality (the Dick Grayson clone.) 

Morrison's era Jason Todd was the street kid and he had always liked trouble which made him "a juvie" (Batman and Robin vol 1 # 23, 2011, written by Judd Winick). In the same issue, there is a flashback that shows that Dick was on good terms with Bruce and working with Batman and JasonRobin – as if it were the Pre-Crisis version. 

Batman and Robin vol 1 # 23, by Judd Winnick, art Guillem March and Andrei Bresson. (2011)

In the very last issue of Batman before Flashpoint and New 52 (Batman # 713, by Fabian Nicieza, 2011) a flashback seems to confirm that it was Dick's decision to leave Robin.

Batman # 713. By Fabian Nicieza, pencillers Steve Scott, Daniel Sampere, Andrei Bressan. 2011.

The Morrison era Batman was, very much, built on a mix of Pre- and Post-Crisis material.

Pre-Crisis, by the way, Jason Todd was the first boy that Bruce adopted, and that was still the case when he was killed Post-Crisis. But he's been referred to as his ward in Batman: Gotham Knights # 44 (2003, written by Devin Grayson), as well as Batman and Robin vol 1 # 23 (2011, written by Judd Winick). (I'm sure other writers/other issues have put Jason down as adopted son...)

Batman and Robin vol 1 # 23, by Judd Winnick, art Guillem March and Andrei Bresson. (2011)

Neither Devin Grayson nor Grant Morrison wrote, as far as I can remember, a "visible" retcon where their ideas of the character's backstories are laid out. But it's nevertheless clear that they did not work with the same version of the character's history as writer/s who preceded them.

Then there's Robin Dies at Dawn from 1963 (Batman # 156), where Batman took part in a psychological experiment. That was canon and the unnamed doctor, who seemed pretty harmless at the time, became a major adversary, Doctor Hurt, during Grant Morrison’s run. Doctor Hurt has also been active as a Nightwing villain in Rebirth.  

Batman # 673. Written by Grant Morrison, pencil Tony S. Daniel, ink Jonathan Glapion and Sandu Florea. (2008)

Nightwing vol 4 # 19. By Tim Seeley, art Javier Fernandez and Minkyu Jung. (2017) 

Another recent example of cherrypicking is Tom King who, in his Batman/Catwoman mini series, uses the character Andrea Beaumont/Phantasm from the DC Animated Universe (she was created for an animated film in 1993). Of course, she's far from the first character who has been created in the animated universe and made their way over to comic book canon.

Tom King also used Hush in Batman vol 3 # 80 (2019), even though the man was last seen being killed in another universe (Batman: Prelude to the Wedding, Nightwing vs Hush, 2018). 

Batman: Prelude to the Wedding. Nightwing vs Hush. By Tim Seeley, art Travis G Moore. 

Sam Humphries, who wrote Nightwing vol 4 for a short period – I don’t know why he left early – had plans to use Dick’s Uncle George, whose one and only appearance was in 1944, in Batman vol 1 # 20. This is from an interview on Batman-news.com: https://batman-news.com/2017/11/27/a-nightwing-before-christmas-an-interview-with-sam-humphries/

SH: I will… I will say that’s a very intriguing pick.  I’ve not thought about that.  I do have a list of characters I want to bring in on the run, most of which I’ve gotta keep close to my chest.

JY: Sure, sure.

SH: You know, I do… Dick Grayson has an uncle, George Grayson, and there’s a story I want to tell about him that I’m really excited about.

In conclusion. It seems to me that official comic book writers are just as prone to pick and choose from earlier canon and disregarding whatever retcon they dislike as us ordinary fans... 

[teruthecreator]

THS IS A ROBBERY 🔫YOUR ROLESWAP LORE!!! HAND IT OVER 🤲if u want 2 :)

just took my melatonin bc i have to wake up at 4:30 AM to drive 16 hours to my mother’s so i’m sorry if this becomes derailed but uh. here’s the roleswap lore! or, at least, everything i’ve decided (along with matthew and corinne bc the three of us tagteamed on it) 

gonna chuck it all under a readmore bc this is going to get long

so first off, just gonna run out in front and say i have no idea how this fits into graduation plot. i haven’t gotten that in plot consideration, given their character differences in comparison to their canonical selves. so, for the most part, it’s a lot of background establishment and character traits. but i do have a few plot bits that i’ve figured out bc i thought it was cool. why such a long preamble? i don’t know. help me

fitzroy maplecourt: 

first off, he’s not called sir!!! because he doesn’t go to knight school! 

my idea for his backstory is that the way he decides to grapple with his identity crisis/imposter syndrome (which he definitely Still has) is that instead of becoming a grander, larger than life version of himself. he just. goes the opposite.

not necessarily becoming a degenerate (bc he just smokes pot and that’s not bad he’s just vibing)??? but more just like. leaning into the laid-back nature of life that one might pick up from a lifetime in rural country. 

he goes to a liberal arts school a ways away and just decides to bum around and take life not seriously. he develops a pretty large group of acquaintances being a hippie stoner; he doesn’t really pursue a degree either. i think if he picked up any major it was probably like. an art major or an english but he basically fails most of his classes bc he doesn’t care! 

unlike his canonical counterpart, fitzroy doesn’t mind being called nicknames!! ones i think he has the most are fitz or roy, but basically you could call him anything and he’ll respond. that is because, instead of clinging to the concept of his identity bc it’s the only thing he feels he has, his identity is nebulous!! he doesn’t understand it and it scares him too much to be concrete, so he just lets people decide shit about him for him. 

his personal philosophy is more about floating through life and letting people assume shit about him than having a solid personality and backstory that people understand and recognize. it is a more dissociative way of having an identity crisis! how fun! he also barely talks about his past, and what he does talk about are cherrypicked points of his past that fit his narrative of being a casual down-to-earth hippie

 the moment that this all changes is when order decides to pop in and grant him powers!!!! wahoo!!!! here’s how that happens: 

he’s baked out of his fucking gourd in his dorm room, in the spring semester of his junior year. he’s alone (which is rare) and he’s maybe a little sad, but he decides to just ignore it. he looks at his table and laughs. “hehe, what if this table just. blew up?” he says to himself. it isn’t that funny, but he laughs. then he lays his hand on the table. 

the table blows up.

after that, he has magic!!! 

i’m going to go into detail a little bit later about how fitzroy’s magic manifests in the roleswap universe, but i wanna get through the backstory first. basically, he gets really freaked out after his magic comes to him because it is So New and Wow What and What The Fuck.

he realizes that this new addition to his character Completely changes how people who know him would perceive him (as a bum stoner chill guy), and he can no longer have control of his narrative with this magic business. so he drops out!

well, he actually just transfers. to a school far, far away where people will never know who he was and he can rebuild his narrative with this magic incorporated into it. he chooses wiggenstaff’s because he figures the school would have more of a knowledge of magic than his libarts school, which would mean he could understand why the fuck weed gave him magic (sidenote: it wasn’t weed, obvs, but he thinks this so for a while he doesn’t smoke!) 

he is now the chill hippie of wiggenstaff’s!!! most people like him because his personality is fairly easy to digest; some people think he shouldn’t be there, but he is! he starts out as a sidekick and he would’ve honestly been fine with that forever, but then he’s suddenly thrust into the hero track!!! wow!!!! i will also explain this with the magic. 

but yeah!! that’s fitzroy, for the most part. now we’ll move onto the other boy

argonaut keene:

he actually prefers if people call him argonaut, but he’s less likely to correct people than canon fitzroy Or canon argo. he’s a tad bit shyer in this universe!

argo’s backstory pretty much follows the same idea of his canonical background, but with some key differences that shape him into the character he is in the present! 

basically he still grows up on shebrie’s ship, surrounded by crewmates and the salty sea air. but his fascination with the sea doesn’t manifest into this swashbuckling lifestyle that he has in canon. 

what fascinates him more is the ship itself. how it functions, how water wears down wood, how directional currents can affect navigation. basically, he becomes invested in the sciences part of sealife more than the pirateering. he has special interests in marine biology, but his heart remains in nautical engineering. figuring out ways to make the ship run better, faster, and more efficiently consumes his childhood thoughts!

shebrie encourages her son’s craving for knowledge with tomes and books from all over the world about anything related to engineering and nautical things. he’s homeschooled, basically, but he becomes rather intelligent within a few short years! 

and then, well....shebrie dies. yeah we aren’t escaping that finality, sorry folks. that part of canon Still Applies.

after shebrie’s death (coughMURDERcough), argo is. traumatized! and he makes the decision to almost entirely sever himself from his life on the sea. it’s all too painful to look back upon--the times he spent studying with his mother in the captain’s quarters, rattling off dolphin facts as they sailed onward, dreaming of turning gears as the ship gently rocked him to sleep--and so he just decides to throw the whole thing out!

he can’t ignore his lifetime of education, though, so he continues to pursue it. with the remainder of money his mother left behind, he enrolls himself in a boarding school of science and technology, with plans to continue study in Only engineering. no more nautical Anything on his roster.

eventually, when he is old enough and graduates high school, he roams around...trying to figure out what to do. he doesn’t have enough money for college, so he can’t continue his scholarly efforts yet. he works around, job-to-job, city-to-city, and just notices how...delayed everything feels. like society is suffering under this slow pace towards innovation. 

and that’s when he decides his next course of action. if he were to discover the root of some problem and engineer a solution, he would be famous! he would gain notoriety and praise and--and all the things his mother had as a captain. but he would have it on his own, separate from his mother, and separate from his past. 

he figures out his next course of action: attend a school that will give his prestigious enough marks to be accepted onto a research team, find a problem, solve it, help the world, maybe earn a little bit of that credit and respect that would make him feel like he was doing his mother proud. 

the thing i want to emphasize here is that argo’s take on helping the world comes from that morality that canon fitzroy has. canon fitzroy wanted to be a knight because he wanted to fairly and justly instill ideas of “good” and “bad” onto the world. roleswap argo has a similar moral sense, but instead of establishing rules he wants to fix the “bad” and make it “good” in a technological/scientific sense.

the only school argo can think of that can get him that kind of notoriety is wiggenstaff’s. getting onto the HOG board would mean he’d have access to countless resources and be respected by a large audience, which would give him the opportunity to make change happen. even if he’s only a sidekick On Paper, what matters is that the diploma would give him the ability to Apply to the HOG. so he drafts a carefully worded letter for a scholarship and achieves a full-ride!!! epic 

like fitzroy’s magic, i’m going to break down argo’s relation to the unbroken chain after i get through backstory stuff. but trust me, I’ve Thought Of It

argo sort of blends into the background at wiggenstaff’s. or, he would, if his roommates/friends weren’t so Fucking Out There. fitzroy is enough to make him always be visible, but even the firbolg’s massive frame means eyes are always on him. which makes him nervous!! he doesn’t like the attention (as opposed to his canonical self, who revels in it for the self-esteem fuel) his insecurities manifest more in what he’s Doing rather than what he Is, mostly because his identity is barricaded by a wall of trauma repression

he’s still plenty funny and witty, just quieter. also he’s a lot Meaner than canon argo, at least to me. because if you irritate him he Will just completely shut you down with words. motherfucker doesn’t bark but he will most DEFINITELY bite

that’s their backstories, for the most part! in terms of how they interact together:

as established, they meet prior to wiggenstaff’s on a tinder date (during the grace period of argo working odd jobs and fitzroy about to be granted immense fucking power) and end up casually dating during the course of their wiggenstaff education. argo is a nervous goober and fitzroy just likes making him blush. it’s very cute.

fitzroy is still less inclined for the romantic than argo, who remains a steadfast absolute romantic internally. fitzroy still holds a lot of the self-doubt and distrust that canon fitzroy has, only it manifests in him not taking anything seriously! which means when he catches Feelings feelings he basically freaks out 

argo still falls in love really quickly, only now he’s more conflicted about it because being in love means trusting and trust means communication and communication means Oops Years Of Trauma Are Being Unloaded Uh Oh! 

now i’m going to touch on the big points that i find really interesting: fitzroy’s magic and argo’s relation to the unbroken chain

fitzroy’s magic:

chaos is not the being that grants him magic. it’s order! 

my take on what this means for what deity is on what plane of reality is that chaos is more Needed so they are the one that is physically On Nua, while Order remains in dreamscapes because they are already a constant amongst the tangible world. yes i know this directly contradicts the reasoning for why theyre Supposed to be where in canon, leave me alone i’m having fun. 

my reasoning for this switch is because chaos stands to be a contradiction to everything canon fitzroy has going on. he has a very strict, nailed-down understanding of himself and the world. everything he thinks is in black and white, bold statements, no questions, he follows rules and obeys the law. untiiiiil chaos gives him magic and shocks him out of that complacency. they lean into his inner impulses and that rage he’s kept locked deep inside. they allow for magic to Explode out of him, rather in calculated bursts or with intent. 

which is why order is more fitting for roleswap fitzroy!! because fitzroy, in this world, has less of a concrete grasp of himself and the world. he purposely lets himself be nebulous and goes with the flow. thinking of the future in real terms is not something fitzroy Does, he has no plans and that’s Fine. order seeks to give fitzroy a backbone, to put it simply. 

his magic doesn’t go impulsively out of him. it is calculated--it comes with thoughts and intentions. the reason it surprises fitzroy when the table blows up is because he didn’t think his thoughts or wants would amount into that, but that’s what order is trying to show him. that his intentions matter. that he matters and he has to Think and Focus and Be Here.

i’m still not sure if his power would manifest as lightning??? because the imagery for the lightning works perfectly for canon fitzroy because of the random power of lightning strikes. but for roleswap fitzroy it’s more like...thunder. like Purpose. thunder happens because of a reaction--it comes with intent. if differing air temperatures collide, it creates thunder. that combination is purpose + intent equating in magic. 

i think that part needs word bc like. how would one quantify thunder?? i think fire might also work really well because the idea of a controlled fire. like things have to Happen in order for fire to start, it can’t just appear like lightning can. 

order’s manipulation relies more heavily on the concept of boosting him up as a savior/hero, rather than boosting his ego and desire for power. fitzroy Has no desires in roleswap world--he’s just there. but when he gets put on the hero track, now he’s suddenly been given purpose. and order uses that to be like “wow, look at all these people who rely on you! look how important you are! don’t you want to use this magic for good?? to do good?? start a war with a demon come on pussy :-)”

OH YEAH also he becomes a hero in this universe (like in terms of tracks) because of the fact that it directly contradicts how he views himself. for canon fitzroy, it was showing him how much more he is capable of without the restrictions of morals (i.e, king fitzroy). but roleswap fitzroy doesn’t Have an image he wants to bolster! he doesn’t think he needs it and, frankly, he doesn’t care for it. the hero tracks carries with it all these stereotypes and expectations that now directly contradict his personality--thus showing him he is capable of more.

okay now for argo’s business jesus christ this post is so long and im NOT EVEN DONE WITH ALL THE POINTS I WANTED TO MENTION

argo’s relation to the unbroken chain:

so since roleswap argo has less of an association with his past (and, by extension, the memory of his mother), he is less inclined to join the mysterious cult that his mother was a part of. 

moreover, he doesn’t necessarily believe the shit he’s told??? he’s way more skeptical of jackal than canon argo is--immediately questioning why and how jackal knew his mother, and constantly trying to poke holes through his narrative.

generally speaking, if you try to talk to roleswap argo about his mother or his past, he Shuts Down. like completely. and that usually results in him snapping at you or just clamming up completely. mostly he just gets really snippy and angry because Hey Shut Up Dickhead I Don’t Want To Talk About It

a part of me still isn’t sure whether or not argo would take the unbroken chain up on their offer. but i also know that, plot wise and character arc wise, it is a necessary part of argo’s story. so i think, at most, he agrees but is extremely hesitant and might even let fitzroy on immediately once he’s given the task of digging into fitzroy’s life

also, they’re boyfriends in this universe, so how could he Really keep it a secret for that long. come on jackal, you idiot, you know they’re kissing. 

i think he’d Eventually warm up to jackal as a sort of father figure, but only after many nights of conversation and dancing around the subject of shebrie.

OH YEAH. this argo doesn’t know the commodore murdered his mother! important to note! he just assumes what he was told was true, that she sailed into dangerous territory and was ambushed. 

during the tribunal bit If That Even Happens In This World, i think fitzroy actually is the one who figures it out Before argo. and once argo does, well............fuck!

OKAY last little bit, just gonna talk about some random extra parts of the world that i’ve thought of already: 

in this universe, grey takes on higglemas’s identity instead of hieronymous’s!!! this is for good reason actually

okay so basically my thought was that, instead of whatever happened in canon yadda yadda dog time, hieronymous and grey are fighting and it’s a pretty evenly matched battle. there’s a cooldown moment where hiero thinks he’s safe but grey uses sneaky backhanded tactics to try and get the drop on him. 

only higgs sees it in time and saves his brother, taking the hit himself. he collapses, extremely wounded, and hiero rushes to his aid. he’s cradling his brother’s body, trying to keep him alive, when grey approaches to deliver the final blow. 

hiero is completely crushed and defeated and basically will let grey do anything to him by this point. the only thing he begs of is to let him live long enough to save his brother.

now, grey isn’t nice. let me make that clear. grey fucking SUCKS and the reason he agrees is because he wants a Real War with hiero and he can’t get that if hiero is basically like “if you let higgs die then you might as well kill me”.

so, grey agrees, and hiero ends up saving higgs by turning him into a cat. was supposed to be a temporary solution until he could find a better spell, but he wasn’t the magic guy in the duo. eventually, grey gets tired of waiting and decides to do some other shit. like turning the school the brothers have been running into a backalley place for demons!!

he takes the form of higglemas and leaves hieronymous locked in his office as basically a mascot. he’s like the queen and grey is the parliament--grey makes all the rules, but everyone assumes it’s hiero. faux-higgs is more on the ground, changing things and making the school a place more fitting for an eventual war. he builds up the concept of heroes and villains being Real, in the hopes he can sway some mortals to his side when he’s able to open a portal to hell. 

hiero still tries to stop this from happening, but his pride and his self-image is wounded by what happened. he feels guilty and puts the blame entirely on him, instead of doing the whole cowardice route like higgs did in canon. he gets people to help him eventually, via mind control and all tht jazz. 

also in this universe, buckminster is the one who gets birdified instead of leon!! has to do with my leon/buckminster and higgs/hiero narrative parallels that i’ve thought of for far too long.

firbolg is exactly the same in this universe. it is hard to swap three people and i didn’t want to think about him. 

fitzroy doesn’t pick a grab. i think he’d rather a lizard, like a bearded dragon. he names him something stupid. like scaly. or kyle. 

uhhh yeah!!! i think that’s....everything i’ve thought of so far!! lemme know if you wanna hear my takes on any other elements in the roleswap world!!!!

[scarletjedi]

Sangcheng Time Travel Fixit Outline Part 1: The Cloud Recesses

I finally figured out how this (17 page!) outline ends! Now posting can begin! Every day until I’m finished, I’ll post the next section of the outline. The goal is that it reads as, like, not!fic - and if you’ve ever chatted with me about fic, this format will be *very familiar* to you. There’s nothing explicit, though there is (semi)detailed references to *how* I’d write sex between two characters (Sangcheng, Wangxian)

Both narrative pieces that I’ve written and posted also have their homes on this outline. You can find them linked below. (Links are currently to the original tumblr post. AO3 links will be added once I’ve posted)

Enjoy!

This fic takes place in the Untamed/CQL verse with some minor details cherrypicked from the books - namely the fact that Wangxian are not only deeply in love, but very horny for each other. 

We begin immediately post-canon, when Jiang Cheng drags Nie Huaisang back to Lotus Pier from the events of the Guanyin Temple.

This scene establishes where their relationship is, currently: two friends who had crushes on each other during their time in the Cloud Recesses, who drifted into a loose friends-with-benefits situation that petered out around the time Nie Huaisang became sect leader.

There were moments over the years where it might have happened started up again, but Jiang Cheng was grieving and has never met an honest emotion he couldn’t turn into anger and Nie Huaisang had begun to plot and couldn’t risk anyone being that close to him. There was mutual pining, but I’m not sure either of these delightful idiots knew recognized it in themselves

Jiang Cheng has *questions* and Huaisang has *answers* and he will get them…tomorrow. He’s tired and mostly just wants to drink with a friend he thought he lost - actual friends being a bit thin on the ground for both of them.

They are both tired, raw, and a bit bloody. They both need a night to lick fresh wounds (of both kinds). Jiang Cheng is reeling from purging (mostly) the poison from his relationship with Wei Wuxian (which might have left him with no relationship, and he doesn’t know what to DO with that), and Nie Huaisang has just completed a grand plan a decade in the making in a bloody, terrifying way that nearly killed everyone. It could have gone so wrong, but it worked, but people know and he doesn’t know what to DO with that, but he’s coming to realize that for all of his planning, he never figured out what to do *next*

They fall into bed together, for that kinds of “I need to feel something and you’re alive but also here but also hot” sex. Never underestimate the inherent homoeroticism of wound care

I feel like their relationship could be, like, reverse wangxian in that they fuck BEFORE *I would happily die for you but instead I will live for you* love

“Sangcheng Time Travel Fixit Chapter 1” (Tumblr | AO3) 

They wake up the next morning…AT THE CLOUD RECESSES (bum bum BUM)

I thought about having them wake up in Lotus Pier/Qinghe but then I decided to limit their emotional upheaval – in other words, Jiang Cheng needs some therapy before he meets his parents again, and I like the drama of Nie Huaisang having to spend the summer in Gusu while his (still living!) brother is back home…with MENG YAO still a trusted aid!

Jiang Cheng is conflicted because his brother is his brother, right there, 16 and carefree and concerned because Jiang Cheng is staring at him and it’s freaking out and he’s beginning to “worry, Jiang Cheng, do you need to visit the infirmary?”

His core is his own, weaker than it was the night before, but stronger than he remembers and *familiar* which makes him wonder if he was as weak as he thought he had been. He then stops thinking that way, because it raises more questions that he’s not ready to face yet.

He knows Jin Ling doesn’t exist yet, and his hand feels *bare* without Zidain, but if he doesn’t have it, it’s because his mother *does* and that means Lotus Pier hasn’t burned, they haven’t fallen to war and *A-Jie is alive!* and he had grieved for all of them, moved on, but none of that matters when she’s sleeping in the girl’s dormitory!

Nie Huaisang wakes and *screams* into his pillow because he had *passed* these courses, damnit, was this his punishment for the lengths he went to avenge his brother? Then, of course, he realizes the that not only is Mingjue alive, but (since this is CQL canon), Meng Yao is *right there.* He didn’t even have a full day to process everything he’d done, and here the universe was, throwing Meng Yao in his face, and one that had not yet done any of the terrible things that eventually lead to his downfall. 

It doesn’t take long for him to adapt, thinking “well, I wanted a new project.”

He is nearly late to class because he’s caught up in his initial scheming – there isn’t much he can do while stuck in Gusu, but he can begin building a network, making connections…

I want a moment later when Jiang Cheng is concerned that the scheming isn’t actually good for Nie Huaisang because it’s not giving him a chance to process anything, but the plan will also hopefully keep Jiang Cheng’s family alive, so he’s not going to look too closely at that. He’ll be there to help Nie Huaisang pick up the pieces, after. He was *good* at rebuilding, after all.

Nie Huaisang meets with Jiang Cheng an Wei Wuxian, slipping easily back into the role of his flighty teenage self, but lets the mask slip when he sees Jiang Wanyin watching from behind Jiang Cheng’s eyes. He’s not surprised when Jiang Cheng corners him after Wei Wuxian is dragged off by Lan Wangji for punishment. 

Obligatory observation of how oblivious they all were to WangXian’s whole deal, with a side of “man everyone is so damned young. We were children!” 

They disappear into the backwoods to talk away from possible prying ears and agree to do what they can to make things better. This will, later on, be something cited to convince people (perhaps even themselves) that they were dating for longer than they realized. 

Jiang Cheng has a moment’s doubt about taking a more active role in Nie Huaisang’s plotting because he has a tendency to break delicate things, but then Nie Huaisang points out that he didn’t break Lotus Pier (not delicate) or Jin Ling (debatable, he’s as angry as I am), and Nie Huaisang trusts him, so he can trust himself. (which may be the moment when Nie Huaisang realizes Jiang Cheng’s desperate need for validation. This absolutely gets brought back during sex becuase Jiang Cheng’s praise king is visible from *space*)

Nie Huaisang rolls out the broad strokes of his plan, and Jiang Cheng is appalled that it will take years. “Wanyin, I waited ten years to kill one man that I knew personally. This is a *lot more complicated*”

Jiang Cheng agrees to it, because of course he does, but also because there really isn’t much they can do right now (Because Jiang Cheng doesn’t view “making connections” as a *thing* to be done. It’s something that happens or doesn’t. Nie Huaisang looks very sad when he admits that, but Jiang Cheng doesn’t quite understand why).

This means, of course, that they have an excuse, nay, a *reason* to act like the teenagers they *look* like rather than the grown men they *are.*

“You were an old man when we were teenagers the first time, Wanyin. You know what’s coming. All the more reason to have fun *now*” 

“What’s coming is why I – and you – need to train. Don’t make that face at me. I’m not your brother, those puppy eyes won’t save you. I said don’t-- *sigh* fine!”

The plan is, of course, to unite the heirs of the sects as best they can to give Nie Huaisang connections he can manipulate later for information, moves, etc. Which means making real friends. Which means befriending Jin Zixuan. Lan Wangji (with bonus get-WangXian-together-now-because-13-years-of-pining-was-painful-to-witness). And Wen Qing/Wen Ning. I’m also going to include MianMian and Jiang Yanli because there needs to be more  girls in this story. Girls who *live*

There could be some drama of the “does Jiang Cheng like Wen Qing??” variety, but I think that’s mostly something the others speculate on. I think by this point in his life, he likes Nie Huaisang more. Wen Qing is okay with this, as I stan lesbian Wen Qing.

During this time, they begin an actualfax friend group.

Wen Ning blossoms with friends his own age. This goes a long way with bringing Wen Qing to their side, and will lead the way to her going to Nie Huaisang for help later rather than Wei Wuxian. He’s smart and wise, just shy

Jiang Cheng looks at Jin Zixuan and realizes that the boy is a lot like Jin Ling in that, being raised in Koi Tower means that he doesn’t actually know how to person – it’s all artifice. He realizes that Jin Zixuan’s disdain about his A-Jie has actually nothing to do with her personally, and he’s mostly terrified/angry about an arranged marriage and doesn’t want to become his father. Behind the front, he’s actually romantic and thoughtlessly kind when he’s allowed to be, just a little dim/sheltered

“Why Is He Here” (Tumblr | AO3) 

Jin Zixuan knows about Meng Yao – it caused an argument big enough for him to finally notice, and tells them that he’d like a brother – and it’s so wistful that it has Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian looking at each other, and Nie Huaisang contemplating adjusting his plans to *rehabilitate* rather than *kill* Meng Yao. He’d killed him once, after all, and it didn’t feel exactly like he’d expected it to

Jin Zixuan does not know about Mo Xanyu, who had just been born. Nie Huaisang basically tells him (where there’s one, there’s many) and Jin Zixuan is officially looking so he can offer assistance. 

Lan Wangji is clearly sublimating his epic boner for Wei Wuxian into anger/self-flagellation, and for the first time since he was a child, he’s questioning the rules and it’s not a comfortable process (hence following it more severely in self-defense). He doesn’t know how to bend the way Lan Xichen doesm and the subject of his gay awakening is *oblivious.* Still, once he’s nudged in the right direction (and Wei Wuxian is hit by a clue-by-four) he does begin to walk that single-plank bridge with Wei Wuxian, he shows a very critical view of blindly following orders (what is black, what is white?), a bitchy/wicked sense of humor, and a softness for fluffy things. In other words, we get a Lan Wangji more willing to buck convention earlier in life. 

Nie Huaisang and Jiang Cheng also spend time together – at first it was because of planning/being the only adults in their group, but then it was because they really, actually like each other. They begin “dating” without quite realizing it – studying together, painting and poetry and fashion (look at JC’s clothing, he’s as much of a clothes horse as Nie Huaisang. I want them to go shopping together, wearing jewelry and lacquered nails. Bonus points for Jiang Cheng in makeup, even if it’s just because Nie Huaisang wants to paint him), sparring (Nie Huaisang has to basically relearn how to fight with his fans as he picked it up later in life) – but also kissing.

Like lots of kissing. A lot of it is surprisingly chaste because I’m keeping the whole “savor your childhood” thing, but I think once they cross back over into mutual orgasms, that tends to take lead. 

This includes praise kink, service top!Huaisang, power bottom!Jiang Cheng, topping from the bottom (Huaisang). Why? Because Jiang Cheng needs to let go and Nie Huaisang needs to have control.

I also like “weak for a Nie” Huaisang, so there might be some of that surprising!strength. 

Wei Wuxian clearly finds out (about the kissing), but it leads to them being an authority he actually listens to when they tell him “you want to bug Lan Wangji so much because you want to kiss his face.” (so, When Lan Wangji listens to Jiang Cheng and flirts back rather than getting angry – WangXian may actually fuck in the library)

This means, of course, that Wei Wuxian doesn’t punch Jin Zixuan and get sent home. This means the engagement stays (and may get pushed forward because of the looming war). This means Lanling Jin is better allied with Yunmeng Jiang and (at the will of the first Madame Jin) the Jins will march if Lotus Pier is attacked.

Of course, Wangxian are hardly discrete. They are found out and *WANGJI ADMITS THAT THEY’RE ALREADY MARRIED* because they still wind up in the Cold Pond Cave. Even Nie Huaisang is taken by surprise as that’s not something that ever went public. (This has the benefit of also putting the Yin Iron into play because action plot!). This leads to the announcement of Wangji’s public wedding to Wei Wuxian at the end of summer, which means Jiang Fengman (and Yanli) arrive not to take Wei Wuxian home but to negotiate the marriage contract.

This brings the Clan Heads together (all but the Wens – Wen Qing is already there, after all, and the Wens are less concerned with keeping up appearances.)

Nie Mingjue brings back Meng Yao, which means Jin Zixuan sees when their father snubs him, so Jin Zixuan steps up and makes an overture of friendship. For the few weeks that they’re there, Meng Yao is brought into the friend group (Jiang Cheng always forgot they were about the same age) which limits his exposure to Lan Xichen.

Lan Xichen is fine with this because it means he gets Nie Mingjue all to himself. That’s right – this is also a Nielan fic. Boom.

Meng Yao has already been snubbed, and is desperate to prove himself (and failing that, make Jin Guangshan eat it), but he’s taken aback by Jin Zixuan’s earnestness. He’s also not yet released Xue Yang – the wedding interrupted those plans. 

Nie Huaisang all but throws himself at Nie Mingjue, who is a bit confused because Nie Huaisang *passed* Lan Qiren’s lessons, so there’s no reason for him to act a fool. (He hugs him tightly anyway. He’s his baby brother, after all.)

Nie Huaisang teases Nie Mingjue about Lan Xichen (he’s going to encourage that relationship) and introduces him to Wen Qing (which goes less well, but it is a wedding and Mingjue is in a good mood. It helps that they bond being older siblings).

Before they leave, Mingjue asks Huaisang if he should be sending a formal proposal to Jiang Cheng Lotus Pier on Huaisang’s behalf. Huaisang is shocked that Mingjue would even consider such an outrageous— “besides, Wanyin is to be sect leader, Da-ge. The proposal should come from him!”

(Part 2) (Part 3)

[fairestdestroyer]

NIGHTMARE TIME EPISODE TWO SPOILERS

MY DROPDOWN WONT CODE IN JUST SCROLL PAST IF YOU DONT WANNA KNOW

HELLO and welcome to Emma cherrypicks their canon because

I am working on an intensive study on the hatchetfield universe as a modern mythos for my myth and fantasy course this semester, and NMT ep2 was literally so stylistically different from every other hatchetfield story that it feels like it SHOULDNT belong in the universe, from a literary standpoint. (Even in a multiverse or divergent TL theory,, we’re not talking apologetics for discrepancies, I am talking about the style and formatting of the storytelling itself.)

Every hatchetfield story so far has fit into a mythic format of a hero’s journey or fallen hero where we receive a firm grounding in the “normal world” before being thrust past the “threshold” into the “special world” were weird shitt happens.

In the hero’s journey, the hero leaves the special world and returns to the normal world with the “elixir” (being the lesson they learned, a strengthened relationship, a real physical treasure, etc)

In a fallen hero’s story the hero may or may not SEEM to make it out of the special world but realistically never makes it out alive with the elixir.

TGWDLM is a fallen hero narrative. (He goes from the boring and mundane world of ccrp and coffee trips to ALIENS AND APOCALYPTIC SHIT and never makes it back out!)

BF is arguably either depending on what you believe the noise at the end was

Watcher world is a hero’s journey (they go from a normal car trip to a weird creepy park BACK to a normal drive home and a stronger relationship)

NMT2 never established any of these necessary steps in creating a mythic narrative and dove striaght into chaos and uncomfortable topics.

Ccrp is made out to be a creepy scifi type organization rather than boring or normal, and neither character is even themselves. The story also loops on itself, creating a world that is ONLY “special world” and feels inescapably unnerving and hazy.

It doesn’t fit stylistically and REALY bothers me, because I’ve done so much work and research on this universe and I feel like everything just got made weird for shock value in this episode.

It felt like half assed nightvale fanfiction rather than a hatchetfield story.

It wasn’t poorly written or bad by any means!! Please don’t take this as an attack cause that’s so not what it is. Nick Lang is still a talented and great guy. It just didn’t feel like hatchetfield from an objective, literary standpoint.

Anyhow;

My only take aways from this episode are the peanuts song, Emma listens to 311, Ted Spankoffski, Paul is secretly horny, and hidgens and Chad fucked in college

That is IT babey.

[unproduciblesmackdown]

i'm here for your Jare and Lana Thoughts

hmm i’m not good at like, coming up with concrete ideas/hcs, or at recalling anything, but yeah they should get to be friends

i mean we don’t know that alana has Any friends, and really even pre-act 2, evan is not an amazing friend to jared, and even if things were better re: that relationship, it’s not really ideal to for jared to have one single friend anyways.......and, again, evan’s not exactly the perfect friend and like, even though i think anyone taking any real note of the material realizes that jared and evan’s relationship being not very close or great at this juncture is a two-way street, it’s easily arguable that evan’s a worse friend to jared in canon than jared is to him. so like, if jared’s gonna have One Friend lol tbh it would be great if he and alana could become friends and like, have someone to hang out with and just have a chill time being Not Alone for once and not having to feel like they have to be maintaining this perfect performance at all times or be dropped

really like it’s a great concept to just imagine them getting to spend time together doing totally unremarkable average Hanging Out stuff.......do homework together sometimes instead of alone in their respective bedrooms, spend time together on the weekend and play video games / watch a movie, just do some chill shit that gives them the chance to have conversations and share interests and personal info and just like, get used to feeling more relaxed in this person’s presence and like this is a real friendship......maybe they spend time together in canon doing tcp stuff ever but we were never shown it, and that’s a bit of a transition from being mostly strangers (distant acquaintances) to being Sort Of friends / at least being more familiar with each other......and maybe they can become closer After the tcp heyday, like, presumably in the timeskip-and-beyond part of things.....like, yeah there's the issue of everything that happened re: tcp and how jared knows more about the inside story while maybe alana just suspects, and natch i don't think jared would be willing to share that Inside Story if only because we all know that he and evan are mutually protecting each other forever, but also i don't think that like, thoroughly discussing the tcp stuff is absolutely crucial to jared and alana getting to be friends. for one thing, they probably can't have gotten That close during tcp, since by act 2 jared is apparently not super involved, and for another thing i think by the finale times both alana and jared might Both just be wanting to pretty much like, move on from all the tcp stuff.

also like, really i don't remember if jared's Extracurriculars like model u.n. was from pre-bway content and/or if it was from "cherrypicking anything worthwhile from the novel" content lol, but also stuff like being a camp counselor can't be completely effortless, and as someone who isn't too close to his parents and for whomst, at least at one point, theoretically, his car insurance being paid was tied to him doing stuff his mom wants him to do e.g. Be Nice To Evan, i get the idea that maybe jared does some academic / extracurricular stuff at least partially with the motivation of staying in the good graces of his parents and other adults / being Approved of via those routes of like, performing well at various Set Tasks like "get good grades" "be in model u.n." "be nice to evan, theoretically, according to jared himself" and etc........anyways this is a really roundabout way to get to "alana might be engaged in like, structured / approved Tasks as a means to being supported, not in the exact same way as jared is but with enough of a parallel that he Understands it".....like, i think yeah we can deduce that alana is kind of Studious or at least cares about her academic performance, but people like, forget that she's Not just doing everything for her college applications, and that most of what the focus is on is alana doing Extracurricular stuff that's more involved with / focused on Local Community than just like, school......she's talking about what she did over the summer, which is sure inherently Not stuff for school, and tcp is only partly about the school, and isn't Academic.......alana probably sees Community Involvement as a means to support / connection / positive attention, which is a bit different from jared who like, yeah might be kinda on that wavelength in Disappear thru Ywbf, but also it might be mostly "oh i can be in this group with evan and alana"......jared mostly seems to regard Attention From Anyone Else as something potentially negative, even though of course he doesn't want to Not get any attention, so on the one hand he's trying to get ahead of that Potential Negative Attention by trying to establish his own Role as [i'm the jokes boy] and be able to Deflect attention away from himself, or at least from whatever aspects of himself he doesn't want to have anyone focus on / question, and he seems to have an even more Defensive approach re: adults (i.e. "literally nothing i tell my parents is true") and it's easy to imagine that he sees it as like, as long as he Does This Checklist of Tasks He's Supposed To Do, e.g. "get decent grades" / "do some extracurriculars (i'm just remembering model u.n. was from Prior Versions Of The Show b/c it was related to that perjury thing and being the ambassador of luxembourg)" / etc and Adults Will Leave Him Alone Entirely Maybe........alana of course doesn't really wanna be left alone, but also she's more focused on her Peers than adults as well, ppl mischaracterizing her as like, only caring about grades & Rules & generally being a killjoy.........but natch if she Is trying to get good grades and Is involving herself in a lot of projects academic or extracurricular or unaffiliated with school at all, and there's gonna be more Work involved in that, and probably hanging out with her will involve doing work Parallel to each other, or at least, alana doing work while you do whatever.......and i think jared would Get that and wouldn't be like, "why are you boring" lol......out here down to bond with evan over basically a writing project......having Computer Skills which he presumably honed / hones on his own time.........this is a mess but im basically getting to "jared wouldn't think alana is boring or anything and would understand pursuing Something through the routes of Projects and Commitments and Approved Activities" look i'm phrasing everything terribly but if i don't just get shit down i'll never answer this ask

meanwhile i think alana would think jared is funny, which is nice b/c despite jared trying to be Humorous evan doesn't act very interested or like he's like "jared you're hilarious and i love that about you" lmao like. obviously people interpret jared's Attitude as like omg so uncaring he has no feelings he also has no problems b/c he Takes Nothing Seriously (which obviously. Humor / demeanor doesn't necessarily reflect taking whatever "seriously" or not.) and maybe evan's misinterpreting it too, but even if he Knows better re: how jared really feels about things, he's not exactly trying to engage with him about it any other way, so.......anyways alana thought connor's terrible joke from probably a while back is funny so. she'd probably Genuinely be like "haha good one jared" and jared would get to be like :o :o :o whoa i made a joke and someone reacted......natch jared's also just trying to like, Provoke evan into paying attention to him sometimes with his Humour / being able to comment on Real Shit without giving away his Real Feelings but like, probably not the ideal form of communication, and jared's out here @ connor like "it was a joke" so he'd probably be fine if any other students like, reacted to his jokes as jokes.........and alana could. also she might Joke sometimes in return lol

there Is that bit of an issue where yeah alana having a tendency to just Take The Lead on things where jared has a tendency to just like, back off if he isn't expressly given space in the first place or if he's pushed back, and this isn't Ideal obviously but like, he and alana don't have to interact via Working On Projects Together alone, especially not tcp, and it'd be an inherently different dynamic if they were interacting solely due to being Friends / wanting to hang out for no especial reason vs interacting to work on something together........and i don't think alana would Want a friendship to be the same as "someone she works on a project with" like, as far as we know in canon, alana only has Acquaintances and jared ends up losing his one friend, so i think if alana and jared become closer later on / start this new Actual Friendship between themselves, alana wouldn't want it to feel the same as like, being involved in tcp together (and neither would jared), and i also don't think jared would necessarily want it to feel like his friendship with evan, which natch wasn't going great, particularly not in those final months l o l .......even though both of them being Friendless would probably make them somewhat eager to make One Friend, they both got burned by their attempts to Get Closer To People (or A Person in jared's case lol) ("everyone needed it for something" like okayyy if you say so, guess we Are just forgetting about alana and jared's existence), and they might not exactly be raring to go about [Obtaining Friendship] the same way again. and since they both had a pretty Transactional approach to getting positive attention (i.e. jared helping evan out and doing shit for him, alana doing the same and presumably doing the bulk of the tcp work when evan ingeniously held jared at arm's length instead of having him more involved but then kind of peaced out of the project himself) it'd probably be nice for alana to have someone who seems to like being around her without it being due to any of the work she does / has done, whereas jared probably doesn't wanna be The Guy Who Helps Out and is only talked to for that purpose..............and them both having a friend who they Didn't make / keep via their respective wtaw-type approaches to things is probably gonna be encouraging re: the fact that yknow, they don't have to put on that certain Performance of what they think people might want from them / people might find Acceptable from them........and of course if they spend more time together they'll get more used to the other / learn about them, and probably ~Learn About Themselves~ since they're finally getting to like, Not be putting on a performance for someone / feeling like they have to play some specific role to be liked or whatever

and like, alana isn't just all Boring and incapable of having fun or comprehending what that is........i like soph's hc that she loves karaoke, jared could tag along and be the audience lol and it's just like, hey we can just have fun together doing shit for fun and not like, feeling like you're having to prove your worth to the other person all the time, just having some confidence that the other person likes you for who you are and they can relax and actually enjoy it

naturally i like the idea that alana and jared become friends (or better friends) in college........the rest of senior year has to be Not A Great Time and just generally more fraught than usual for them, and they could stand to have the summer before college to kinda take a breath (but also maybe feel worried about college) but then yknow once college starts they're In college and it's different from hs (and better), and it being a Different environment with Different people and a Different structure can also help them just like, get more comfortable with themselves and maybe (hopefully) feel more capable of pursuing stuff they really wanna do and just overall be having a better time than, say, in senior year of high school.....would sure be convenient if they went to the same one of course. lol. hang out all the time on campus / between classes, go to Social Occasions together, be in the same dorm / just keep hanging out at each other's, etc

also just like, on its own, i always like the idea of jared also being able to Make Friends / have decent, positive, accepting Social Interactions via joining a club / being involved in some extracurricular type shit, where he Can be comfortable like "oh i'm here to Do Some Tasks so i get to be part of this group of people just by signing up, not by everyone else deciding they want me around" and then yknow, be spending time with this group of people that way, end up hanging out at various points kind of branching off of whatever Tasks are being done, and sort of gradually realize that people Don't Dislike him and can then catch on that maybe he has some potential friends here.........it's fun to think of him doing like, tech work for theatre, and also in the midst of all these theatre people he can like, fully realize Oh I'm Gay (and maybe get to fully process what went down there re: evan and his own Heartbreak there, like the fact that it Was heartbreak).......and to add the idea of Alana Being Friends with him during college, maybe a) she can hang out over in the theatre area sometimes while he's doing whatever and work on her own stuff but also get to interact with everyone else who might be around and b) if he gets any comp tickets she can get one and c) idk she can maybe also be Directly involved in helping out sometimes......

and also anyways getting all the way to This Point in the answer before mentioning that like, of course both jared and alana are gay and maybe haven't figured this out entirely by the events of Canon but sure could during college and could be each other's Supportive Friend, naturally if one of them figures it out first the other one is like wow great i'm such an Ally of that, boy it feels really great to Know i have a gay friend actually, b/c i'm Such An Ally......and then figuring it out for themself as well lmao like aha. hope they don't think i'm copying them lol...........also the one Jared And Alana "Dating" idea i permit is that maybe back in the day when neither of them were Aware of their own gayness they like, vibed with each other and were like "hmm is this Having A Crush?" and "dated" awkwardly for like a month or two or something (or less lol)......naturally they could've had this sort of experience with Anyone but like, the sort of underlying thing that the Affinity they mistook for "i wanna date this person" was them rly having the potential to be good friends and have a significant relationship that way. but then them having this real awkward "dating" experience probably would delay that for at least a little bit lmao like avoiding each other b/c even if it sure was just like, a not-that-dramatic mutual breakup, it's still uncomfortable and it's like "why didn't this work out at all"............but yeah the important part is they're gay and they're friends and if they are also good friends while they're figuring out the Being Gay stuff for themselves then that's just nice for them.....have this person be supportive and glad for you........

also and yknow there's the idea of "what if jared and evan start to make up in College Times and possibly kleinsen happens" and obviously being back in touch with evan would be both fraught for jared and alana even if they're in this place where it's easier to extend him some grace here, but they'd sure understand each other's misgivings and trepidation here even if they don't really lay out each and every Detail of like "yeah here's why and how i was hurt back in the day in tcp times".......and yknow, for jared it wouldn't have to be like "wow after i lost evan i've had No Friends and having him back in my life would mean i'm not completely alone anymore," which might help him take his time in contemplating / reflecting upon the situation lol. and who knows, alana might be down to accept an apology as well at least or something. but regardless of that concept Yeah jared and alana getting to be friends in college would be cool for both of them.

these are all broad sweeping concepts lmao instead of like any fun details or specific events / scenarios lol but yeah here are some Thoughts.......a real tl;dr is that it'd be nice if like, overall, both jared and alana felt like they had some more space in college to figure themselves out and feel less pressure to fit some precise role that will win them approval, and they find some Connection through each other and get to share that like, Figuring Themselves Out territory while being friends and getting some emotional support from each other, and they are gay

[otp-armada]

I've read some of those "cheating Bellarke" tweets. We know damn well cheating's not their underlying issue. Validation's the name of the game with these people, and it only counts if it's purposed for CL's benefit. If it's aimed at Bellarke, pineapples will do what pineapples inevitably do by reaching for every excuse they can to cheapen it. The most comical of ironies is to accuse Beliza of trying to keep Bellarke fans on the hook to support their careers by telling them what they want to hear without acknowledging it as the exact tactic Jason used on CL stans post-finale. In lieu of awareness, you get a thousand banners cheering "CL endgame," which for anyone with the slightest comprehension skill is categorically untrue. L, the genuine Commander of the 12 clans, is as dead in 7x16 as she's been since 3x07. You won't see them admit the fine print, though.

I haven't said this before, so I'll say it now. I'll concede to a CL endgame when the real L steps on that beach to spend her life with Clarke. I'll capitulate, waving my white flag, if and only if we see nothing less than precisely this. If pineapples think Jason actually did something for them, they can go give him my demands. Let him get to work. Give me a shout when he's finished.

Pineapples deem themselves the arbitrators of what gets to count as valid. For years, they say the cast never supported romantic Bellarke.

(Also factually untrue. I can remember tweets from the early seasons where the cast was open to Bellarke, and I wasn't even in the fandom then. I'm guessing it's when the CL era began that Jason ordered them to hold their tongues. Imagine how much more utopic this fandom might have been if either CL and BE were platonic, or Jason had been forthcoming about his intentions for these three ships instead of crying out, "No spoilers!" Let yourselves get lost in the daydream.)

When its leads are contractually free to do so now, they're evidently scheming and lying to fans, so say the CL fandom. Why? Because Beliza confirmed the pineapples' and other assorted antis' worst nightmare, what they ignored and cherrypicked parts of canon to pretend isn't nor was ever true. This, combined with their rampant bullying demanding compliance with their figments, is what has been so heinous about them for so long.

There's a lot to be angry with Jason for, not the least of which is validating pineapples to secure for his prequel one of the two super-fandoms he had when he knows he's permanently lost the other. Nothing about their behavior over the years is deserving of reward. No more than the conduct of our fandom's bad eggs is. I suppose the chief takeaway is that they weren't rewarded in actuality.

What pineapples got from Jason wasn't an endgame, but just enough clout to be able to claim they won a ship war. And for some of them, the permission to lord their spoils over Bellarke fans is sufficient compensation. They've been unscrupulous with it. Until Bob and Eliza came poking holes in their contented bubbles. It's another round of the same age-old Mission: Seek, Undermine, Destroy. Because if pineapples can't convince themselves and everyone else that they won, what else do they have to show for the four years of harassment and badgering they've put in? An alien cosplayer and six brushed-off, useless words in an interview, that's it. They know it's inadequate. But they need to pretend it's everything, for their sake and our expense.

I'll leave one last note before hopping off my soapbox for today. You gotta love Becho advocates bamboozled by the feasibility of Bellarke endgame while Bellamy was with Echo. For three years, they acted as if the concept of break-ups vanished from the world. You couldn't possibly associate with Becho, a term existing nowhere in human affairs. And it's outrageous of you to try for innovation at great cost to Becho.

I admire their consistency in the face of the wreckage.

[faelapis]

i'm so glad ian jq confirmed that the diamonds aren't redeemed and haven't changed at all, i'm so tired of your takes and its good to see that canon is actually behind me. they're bad and not redeemed. steven was manipulating them and theyre never gonna get better :)

right, i forgot liking a tweet, which people do from a myriad of reasons - from an ex-crew member who did not work on (most of) s5 - outweighs everything said,  done, and expressed by the creator and synthesis of the crew as a whole.

i guess it also outweighs the show itself, which is so far-removed from steven “manipulating” them that it’s almost farcical. steven is completely upfront with them - he tells them he’s not pink, and he wants them to help the corrupted gems. which the diamonds do, for plenty of reasons. it’s not just because they want to hang out with ‘pink’. white wasn’t even there for that suggestion.

if you know how to read tone and body language, you could tell that’s not something steven said to be sly. that’s something he earnestly felt in the moment. it’s hard to manipulate people after you’ve already said you want their help, they already agreed, and you didn’t suggest hanging out until way later.

like… the show is subtle at times, yes. but it’s not impossible to tell whether someone’s lying or expressing their genuine feelings.

but yeah, sure. let’s throw all of that out the window, because youtube and tumblr are persistently horny to be validated to say Diamonds Bad / SU doesn’t Actually forgive. thank you for showing me the light. i am forever grateful /s.

i guess because of this, we’ve also gotta take every piece of ship art from every crew member as Forever Canon, even if RS hasn’t expressed approval, and none of those sentiments have actually made it into the show. anything a crew member *likes* is now canon. so i guess lapidot, amedot and pearlmethyst are all canon, that’s gonna delight and irritate a lot of people. oh and lapis has also been getting it on with jasper in secret, that’s Really gonna upset people, but there’s nothing we can do about it! someone clicked ‘like’, so i guess that must reflect the Crew Consensus of Canon!

i guess the only “real” problem is, that’s gonna make this “diamonds bad” take really contradictory in a world where this also exists:

so, uh… have fun figuring that one out.

this is a matter of interpretation, but if you really think every tweet liked by one of the crew’s members is canon, rather than canon being created by both the synthesis of crew discussion & the final word belonging to rebecca sugar, then… maybe consider that you’re cherrypicking. also, it could be a distinction between being “in the process” of evolving vs having “already” evolved. or just not thought through, because again, it’s just liking a tweet. defending a thing you used to work on. which is Very easy to do.

one thing i do know is, i highly doubt it was saying the diamonds are irredeemable. or that SU is less forgiving than you think. there’s a mild distinction in the tweet even i agree with, which is between “steven also had his own reasons” vs “steven did it Only because he wanted to be their friend” - the latter of which is false. he wanted to heal corrupted gems.

but that doesn’t mean the diamonds aren’t evolving. they are.

steven literally acknowledges that himself - “you guys have really gotten better at showing affection” is textual confirmation that they have changed. they can be imperfect and still make an effort to become better people.

“change your mind” was called that for a reason. much like spinel, white diamond internally realizes she was wrong, and works to change. that’s reinforced by the newly released “the tale of steven” book by rebecca sugar, aka the person who ian himself has said is the true arbiter of canon.

like. it’s very “for the kids at home”, so… here’s white, indeed realizing she was wrong, and spelling it out for you:

at their lowest point, steven always tries to be compassionate towards the diamonds. he doesn’t leave anyone in despair after their “was i wrong all along?” realization. he offers them hope, empathy and cooperation.

in that scenario, i really don’t care whether or not you wanna strictly define that as “redemption”. some people use that term way stricter than others. what i care about is whether the characters are given A) hope, B) change, and C) a happier ending than is traditional for a ‘villain’.

whether or not you think they’re fully redeemed or just trying to change… to me, that’s a distinction without a thematic difference. the overarching story remains the same - the diamonds are going to be fine. they’re trying to be better, and their current actions are having positive effects. that’s good.

in the movie, steven leaves homeworld because he wants to live peacefully after saving the galaxy. he was being smothered by the other diamonds, yes, but he’s didn’t go cuz he was secretly punking them the whole time. & he’s the one who needs to learn he’s not entitled to a “happily ever after”. he can’t leave anyone behind. steven has to keep trying every day, to help as many people as possible. everything will keep changing, including people around him.

so… in that spirit, if the diamonds aren’t fully redeemed, then neither are anyone. you gotta keep growing to be your best self.

matt burnett - one of the head writers throughout all five seasons, and whose words have been reflected both by the show and by RS herself - said it best: there are no strict heroes or villains in this show. everyone are much more complicated than that.