#dom-tert loop

[mbti-notes]

Anon wrote: hello! so, for the longest while, i was convinced that i was an infp. but, very recently, i realised that the struggles that i was going through, the problems that were coming up repeatedly, seemed to be more indicative of ne-te loop. i didn't actually get very far with the function development guide once I'd determined myself to be an infp btw. life kinda got in the way.

anyway, this realisation prompted me to delve back into your type theory guide. for the past week or so, I've been going through it in detail with a clear mind, considering every single type as a possibility and rejecting them one by one according to the evidence I'm typing up. I'm still about midway through the inf functions in the proper procedure that I'm following, but i've skimmed that entire post and others, because there's a couple of questions that's been bugging me throughout.

I've more or less narrowed myself down to an xnfp, although like i said, I'm still open to considering other types as well. what I'm mostly stuck with is the following:

1. how is an enfp's ne-te loop going to look in contrast to an infp's te grip?

2. how is an infp's fi-si loop going to look in contrast to an enfp's si grip?

i understand that, of course, every person is a unique example of their type. but I've been stuck with these two points, since i couldn't find anything on your blog related to how a specific tert function's loop looks in tandem with the type's corresponding dom function. like, i know what te-loop looks like, but i don't know how it would work with ne dom. i suspect where i might have gone wrong with typing myself (if i was mistaken, like i said, i am still going through the theory guide intensively), was misidentifying si grip as fi-si loop.

if you do have any past posts that I've missed, I'd appreciate you redirecting me to them. and i hope my doubt is clear, and that you'll be able to help me out. thank you!

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As far as I can tell, there are several issues to address:

1) Overemphasis on how functions "look": This usually means you're too focused on outward behavior (superficial) and not really understanding how functions operate inside the mind (fundamentals). Until you are able to draw a proper distinction between cognition and behavior (which is the first major principle that I teach in the Function Theory guide), your focus will likely be misplaced on the what and then missing the why. Asking "what does my Te look like?" won't get you as far as asking "WHY do I use Te in this way?" Basically, you're not going deep enough.

2) Not accounting for Function Dynamics: Newbies often get stuck on viewing functions in isolation, which exacerbates problem #1 above. Once your learning becomes more advanced, you'll understand that functions are dynamic and intertwined. For instance, tertiary loop and inferior grip are very different because the function interactions that produce them are very different:

- Tertiary loop arises due to a unique relationship to i) dominant dysfunction, specifically dominant immaturity, and ii) auxiliary underdevelopment, specifically auxiliary resistance. Thus, evidence of tertiary loop must also include evidence of those two issues, which I have already included in the guide under the dominant and auxiliary function sections. These three parts must fit together properly.

- Inferior grip arises due to dominant dysfunction, specifically dominant extremes that create a troubling imbalance. One reason people find themselves in dominant extremes is because they're trying to force the function to work in unsuitable ways/situations, which causes escalating problems with stress, to the point of not being able to cope and adapt well. Thus, evidence of inferior grip must include i) evidence of dominant extremes, and ii) eventual loss of healthy dominant functioning, information which is already included in the inferior function section of the guide.

3) Not accounting for Type Dynamics: Type dynamics refers to the theory of the functional stack, of how the whole is more than just the sum of its parts. Each of the four functional stack positions serves a unique and specific purpose in your psychology with regard to what the ego needs and wants, which is briefly explained in the beginning of each stack position section, as well as the type dynamics section of the Type Dev guide.

For example, the proper purpose of the tertiary function is to complement and temper the auxiliary function. However, tertiary loop means that this healthy dynamic is altered and the tertiary function is being misused for a different and more nefarious purpose of propping up a failing dominant function.

This goes back to point #1 above of not grasping the "WHY" - what is the purpose of each function in the mind? It's very important to ask yourself WHY you are using the function in that particular way, in relation to the other functions. To what end or to what purpose is the behavior meant to serve?

.

It looks like all the information you need is already included in the study guides, so perhaps you have only been picking out some superficial points about the "look" of functions and ignoring the more important theoretical concepts that would help you understand WHY functions look a particular way. The problem with not reading the guide all the way through to full understanding before you start doing the hard work of analyzing yourself is that you won't see the bigger picture of how all the parts are meant to fit together.

Psychology is complicated, so function theory isn't exactly easy to learn. There are many levels of comprehension and you're still at the beginner level. It's certainly not a crime to be a beginner, since we all have to start somewhere. However, don't sabotage yourself with poor learning methods such as disorderly/unfocused reading, taking shortcuts, or thinking that the "gist" equals complete knowledge - these are common learning obstacles for NPs.

[rainytypology]

SF9 Chani MBTI Analysis

- INTJ -

An in-depth analysis of an idol's MBTI type. Based on my opinion and observations, may change later. Not an expert.

MBTI: INTJ (Ni - Te - Fi - Se)

Dom: Ni - Introverted Intuition

A percieving function that uses one's personal insights and ideas.

Chani has admitted that celebrity life is not for him and the main reason he joined entertainment was to support his family. His end goal is to ensure his family with financial security. He's not really ambitious and doesn't seem to have any other plans besides helping his family. He also does take his time to plan out things and decide how he's going to get there. Ni often prefers to plan before taking action to make sure it's perfect and attainable.

Aux: Te - Extroverted Thinking

A judging function that relies on established facts and data to create a working environment.

Chani is realistic and honest. In the MBTI interview with Hwiyoung, Hwi says Chani is the type to provide solutions rather than comfort, which is very Te. Te doms/aux would rather get to the problem and solve it instead of just complaining about it.

If he were an ENFP (Ne - Fi - Te - Si), he would likely resort to Fi to comfort rather than go straight to problem solving. He would also partake in Hwi's flights of fantasy rather than say they're silly (Hwi = INFP. Fi - Ne - Si - Te. Ne from both xNFPs would come together to brainstorm. But Chani doesn't do that with Hwi).

"He's clear on what he wants to do as an artist, the type of image he wants, and his goals as well, so you can see him grow towards that goal." - Rowoon from 2019 Ranking Box interview.

Tert: Fi - Introverted Feeling

A judging function that uses one's personal values and beliefs to compare and make choices.

Chani seems to have a bit of trouble with self expression. It may be awkward for him and so he chooses not to be very expressive. However, he's still very soft and mellow, especially when he talks about his love and care towards his group. He may not show a lot of emotion towards many things, but when it comes to the things he cares about (e.g SF9), you can really see his mood light up. Fi will open up more if it's about their personal passions.

Inf: Se - Extroverted Sensing

A perceiving function that uses our 5 senses to process the external world.

Having inferior Se, it is likely the reason why Chani can be incredibly slow moving. Se is focused on the physical world and movement. However, Chani moves very slow...talks slow as well.

"However, in everyday life, it's a miracle to see Chani moving around." - Hwiyoung in their Cosmopolitan Korea 2019 interview

___

Why he's not an ENFP (Ne - Fi - Te - Si):

I very highly doubt Chani is an ENFP...if he were, he would have to be in an Ne - Te loop or something. However I just do not see any high Ne usage in Chani in general though. Compared to actual Ne dom Inseong and Ne aux Hwiyoung, Chani is much more of an Ni user.

He's also very relatable to me as an INTJ too...And I highly doubt I am an ENFP so lmao.

Actual ENFPs: BTS V, TWICE Sana, P1Harmony Intak

If he is not an INTJ though, ISTP would be my second guess. However I don't see much Ti-Fe usage in him.

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Other analysis:

Enneagram | Birth chart

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Kpop typology list

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[amai-no-ura]

Skyrim Typology - Windhelm

The worst city in all of Skyrim bars none.

***Only NPCs with enough depth are listed here

Ulfric Stormcloak

ENFJ 8w9 sp/so, Burnt Badger-Lion

He is a pitiful man. He is broken by his less than honorable surrender to Thalmor torturer. He is a gallant warrior and a highly dynamic man who care for people under him but guilt and anger made him into a warmonger he is now. He thinks the Empire abandoned him (who fought for the Empire his entire life) and worse, that they abandoned his people. He is angry at himself for giving into Thalmors manipulation but also at the Empire for failing him again and again. So he weaponizes his rage and construct the entire narrative about Skyrim's independence (which is a sign of high Ni - abstracting away from real event and make them into symbols). His entire narrative and decisions are made with people and emotions. It is all about 'people of Skyrim' which indicates Fe.

Nurelion

ISFP 4w5 sp/sx

This fucker is really annoying. At first he might look vaguely like a grumpy INTJ but when you look closer, he is high Se with piss poor Te. His body is frail, weak and he is incredibly sick but he still wants to go dungeon diving so he can put his hands on the White Phial. That shows his high Fi (I want this), high Se (I need to get my hands dirty and do it myself, now), semi-strong Ni (this is my life goal) and poor Te (ignoring the fact that he will surely die because he is incredibly weak and that he can better use his resource to strike a deal with someone so they could do it for him).

His poor Te shows again and again. All he cares about is his needs, he steamroll over his apprentice with Te sledgehammer (I want this now, and I expect it now! Ignoring the fact that he isn't the only thing that exists in the world). He offended LDB by giving him 5 gold after he brought the White Phial to him which is incredibly stupid move (thee man single-handedly killed an army of Draugar and came out unscathed) and has no sense of value of things.

Niranye

ESTP 6w7 sp/so

She is a smart woman. She knows how to make a deal and maneuver around the racism in Windhelm. She has strong sense of realism and detachment from emotions (Se-Ti), She knows she needs to bribe and endure some racist remarks but she is cool with it because it's just the way it works. She is also very charming and tries to appeal to people's emotions to get her way. Instead of negotiating a deal with LDB, she appeals to his sympathy instead (I could be killed!) this shows her Fe-tert. She also occasionally takes other's problem as her own to solve and tries to do right by people around her. She offers the priestess of Talos a way to escape the city in case the Thalmors break into the city. This shows her superego tendency to do things right (6) and her Fe. Her Ni is nonexistent.

Calixto Corrium

INFJ 9w8 sx/so

He is an odd one. On one hand, he is a narcissist who kill others without feeling an ounce of guilt, on the other, he is a broken soul who wants nothing more than seeing his sister (who he is very attached to - enneagram 9 trait) again. He constructs his grief into a vision (again, Ni-dom trait) and enacts it. He has no Te because his thinking is all about 'this is what I want to see, it must happen and I'll ignore everything outside because it makes sense to me) which shows Ni-Ti loop. He also has competent Fe - likable, diplomatic and knows how to appeal to people's emotions. His Se is horrible though, he doesn't know how to fight but still impulsively trying to fight someone much stronger in a desperate attempt to make his vision come true.

[typhoulogy]

Dom-Tert Loops and Antagonism

Personal observation: dom-tert loops in types seem to produce antagonism towards other people and/or events.

***

Dominant and tertiary function loop is characterised by using one’s tertiary function in preference to auxiliary function. Auxiliary function is known to be the source (and direction) of growth for every type, which means that its use can be as illuminating, as it can be challenging and uncomfortable. In other words, auxiliary function is there to advise dominant function: whether in taking in (for T/F dominants), or in providing feedback (for S/N dominants). 

However, instead of heeding constructive feedback, it is easier to opt for the path of least resistance: by resisting auxiliary function in favour of tertiary function. In this situation, tertiary function serves dominant function by selectively gathering ego-protective information, or by selectively choosing which rationales or beliefs to emphasise to defend against auxiliary function’s good advice.

Do it often enough and you’ll become “the bad guy,” or an antagonist. (Funnily enough, this is how some villains are born.) 

Causes behind looping:

Inability to cope with stress

Inability to express one’s true self

Suffering from trauma or abuse

Stunted psychological development

Suffering from mental disorder or emotional maladjustment 

Thus dom-tert loop induced antagonism manifests as excessively defensive, avoidant, judgemental behaviour that is largely unresponsive to constructive feedback.

Impenetrability persists as long as an individual prefers only one type of feedback: that of the tertiary function. As such, a looping individual can easily feel justified in their defensiveness because they do seek out “evidence” for their stances, but they do so selectively. And yet, if one continues to (A) suffer, and (B) to dismiss rational/good advice that does not “apply” to them, one can rest assure that they are walking down the wrong path, however “justified” they feel in their antagonism.

What are the consequences of not breaking the loop? Beyond day-to-day suffering and feeling as though the same problems plague one no matter what one does, a looping individual slowly chips away at their own self-esteem, they waste their time and energy that could be used to nurture one’s potential, they risk facing a lifetime of blown chances and regrets, and eventually become the person they thought they could never be.

Yikes.

So what’s a way out? Open up to people, new perspectives, new opportunities, new ways of being. Respond to the nagging feeling inside of you. Whether it feels weird, stupid or lame, whether it feels too difficult and challenging, whether it is scary or strokes your insecurities about being exposed as undesirable or inferior, do it anyway. Nothing shuts up the chatter in your head that wants guarantees better than accepting the ambiguity of unknown and taking the first step. And I mean literally.

What happens then? Magic will hit you like a truck. 

[metamemory]

Ni-Fi Loop

Ni: Huh. I think I found a pattern here. Fi: Oh, you might have. That's neat. Ni: ...but this isn't a good pattern... Fi: What do you mean? Ni: Now that I'm looking closer, I really think there's something going on here. Fi: Oh my God, you're right. Ni: And look at this! And this! It makes perfect sense! Fi: HOLY SHIT Ni: IT ALL FITS Fi: WE'RE GOING TO DIE Ni: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Fi: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *three days later* Te: What the fuck, you guys? Do you have ANY proof of this whatsoever? No? Then what are you wasting time worrying over? Go find some actual evidence instead of sitting in a corner and worrying about it or shut the hell up! Se: lmao let's get high to forget all of this

[bat-the-misfit]

I will always remember the day I was explaining my uncle why I typed him as an ENTP and when explaining his functions he said "oh no I think i'm way more this Ti thing than the Ne thing INTP makes more sense to me"

and he kept disagreeing with me for like half an hour AND HE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT MBTI WHILE I KNEW A LOT AND KNEW WHAT I WAS SAYING

and that whole discussion just showed me why i was exactly right in typing him as an ENTP

[blueopinions49]

[HOTD] Alicent Hightower ESFJ 1w2 sp/so

Zodiac: Virgo

MBTI

ESFJ (Fe-Si-Ne-Ti)

Fe (Extroverted Feeling)

While I did considered typing Alicent as an ISFJ I don't think Si is her first instinct when coming into conflict. I believe Fe dom suits Alicent the most ; Alicents arc is about pleasing her Otto and maintaining the peace in the kingdom “I? What have I done but what was expected of me? Forever upholding the kingdom, the family, the law. While you flout all to do as you please” while I allot of people see this line as an indicator of Si I believe this is pure Fe to me. Fe is a function that looks to connect with others and create connection. Alicent’s uses her fe in order to create an image of peace and cordiality. Rhaenyra later on confronts her about how she hides behind her moral self righteousness. Alicent always seeks to please other emotional state this can be seen with both Viserys and Otto. In episode 9 Alicent confesses to Otto that she only wanted whatever he impressed up on her and how she always looked for ways to please him.

Si (Introverted Sensing) 

Alicent’s Si is incredibly strong and probably the function we see her use most. Alicent’s believe that following step by step processes is a need in life. She understands infrostrucural details and the need for them. She doesnt seem quite impulsive and understands this. She seems to have a reputation for being obsessed with following rules. I feel like I need to stress this but Alicent having close minded views doesnt make her an Si user. 

Ne (Extroverted Intuition)

Surprisingly enough I don't see any Ti to justify typing Alicent as an ISFJ. However I do see quite a bit of Ne in her. Alicent seems to try and look for multiple avenues in order to prevent the inebetable war. She seems to go stress to Ne in order to find multiple alternatives when it comes to stalling the possibility of war. Even when it comes to making excuses to her father about Rhaenyra. While I believe a tert Ti Alicent would've become numb to emotionality (examples of ISFJ who Si-Ti a loop is Allison Argent in S2 of Teen wolf and Kendall Roy in S2 of Succession). 

Ti (Introverted Thinking) 

Alicent seems to struggle to fully analyze things and take less sentimental approaches into things. When in conflict she seems to take issue with leaving sentimentality aside and put her less emotional side in the back. I believe by the end of season 1 we saw her starting to realize that she was always a pawn in her fathers game instead of her own player. In season 2 I think we will see an Alicent who uses her ti a bit more. 

Enneagram: 1w2 sp/so 

I originally thought Alicent was a  6w5 sp/so as most people did however after seeing her character develop throughout the series I think it became very evident that her core want is stability, justice and discipline. Rhaenyra’s line about how she hides behind moral self righteousness was the moment I realized that all of her wants and needs align to type 1.Not only that but she seems to withold her rage and anger to present a dutiful and kind image. She might look like a sp type 6 due to her being a sp 1w2. The perfect example of a sp type 1 is Hermione Granger (ESTJ 1w2 sp/so) maybe Lexi Howard too (INFJ 1wX sp/so). 

Anyways she’s mother and idc that its unpractical 

Next is Characters from HOTD...

[funkymbtifiction]

Hello! Hope you're doing well??

Could you please explain more about the test function?

Is it true a person's tert starts manifesting in early adulthood as in starting from 20 years old if so..how does it work when they were younger?

Besides, I have noticed that people display the third function as a mask.

I theorized that it is similar to the dom and stress relief that's why it's more prominent. Unless it's a stressful situation then its harder to use it.

Also, when do loops occur as opposed to gripping?

I figured the last one was from stress and the first from prolonged stress or depression.

Thanks in advance.

It's somewhat nonexistent and/or seems less important when they are young. For example, I've always been an avid writer and spent the majority of my time writing novels (starting at eleven years old, lol), but I looked back recently on a book I wrote at sixteen and realized it was all Ne-driven. Random scenes building into each other, with no sense of larger plot or structure or word count or grammar. The older I get, the more important those things are to me during the writing process itself -- I am now conscious of what plot lines might derail things, or if I have too many characters (which gets confusing for my reader and often means they are "thin" rather than deep), I can think more objectively about what needs to be there and what is just padding, and I greatly crave a sense of order in my process. I also can now tell a story in 95,000 words rather than 200,000.

I've seen INPs develop more of a capacity for details and become more able to retain detailed information after 20 years old, rather than just be rigid about their environment and hating change. Etc. So it's always there, but it manifests in an immature way -- and once you hit adulthood and have to start problem-solving out in the real world, it becomes more necessary to develop it -- and other people start to notice it more, since you become more competent with it.

Loops seem to be more common in short-term scenarios, such as needing to get a project done or dealing with stress; grips tend to come when a person is at their lowest or is dealing with failure or personal loss. I'm not sure what drives people into either one, but an extrovert is very prone to loops since they want to affect the outside world -- they can skip over developing their second function in their eagerness to access their third, leaving them imbalanced. It's harder for an introvert to fall into a chronic loop, because they have no choice but to develop their first extroverted function, in order to cope with and deal with the world and the people around them. Thus, introverts develop their functional stack more naturally.

[mbti-enemies]

Hi I’m really struggling with figuring out if I’m INFP or ISFP. My Ne is really high but so is my Se. I’m a fiction writer and I feel that exercises my Ne a lot and I love it but also can’t live without Se. Do you have some tips for those who can’t figure it out?

hiii, apologies for taking so long. i think i was a little stuck so i was avoiding it so @audience any input would be awesome.

two pieces of advice: if you feel that it's mostly a specific activity (writing) that uses your Ne, then i's probaly not your default. as yk, we've got to all use all the functions even if we don't default to some of them, and it's totally possible to get a lot of practice in one that's not in ur stack.

(advice two) however, maybe you do use Ne a lot while thinking as well (yk the classic indicators, thought jumps between ideas, people thinking you say random things). what helps me is looking at the tertiary, so that's Si and Ni here. looking at those functions, it might be easier to see what suits you best. also, if you haven't already, check out loops (dom-tert). if you've ever fallen into one of these, they're specific to the tertiary, and it's very easy (or at least was for me) to type urself from descriptions of the loops.

[thebellekeys]

MBTI-ing the TLH gang

For those of you who don't know, this blog used to be almost exclusively for MBTI and typology about a year ago (now it's an everything blog, lmao). I've studied MBTI and the Jungian functions for 5 years now, albeit informally and as a hobby. Feel free to slide in my inbox if you want a deeper explanation for why I’ve chosen a type for a specific character. Anyways, so here's me typing the TLH characters:

James - classic ENFJ: He puts others first and makes the harmony of the group his priority even if it means doing stupid shit sometimes and neglecting his own needs (Fe-Ti). He likes to be a planner and to be wise, but his impulsivity (and horniness) often clash with these plans (Ni-Se).

Cordelia - ISFP: Cordelia keeps her dreams, desires, and idealism at her forefront, which can sometimes result in illogical or impulsive mishaps despite her dreams and skillset, re: Wayland the Smith, not noticing her father was an alcoholic all her life (Fi-Te). Cordelia is a warrior, very in tune with Cortana, her body, her fighting, her dancing, and her appearance (Se-aux).

Matthew - ESTP: Matthew enjoys pleasure and experience and the fleeting nature of moments, and he's the literal impersonation of joie de vivre when he's at his healthiest, but he sadly overuses that strength of his (Se) to try to neglect all the dark shit going on under the surface. He stifles the logical parts of himself that tells him he’s making impulsive decisions and just shows the world a brave, charming face (tert-Fe, looping).

Lucie - ENFP: Lucie loves ideas and feelings and romance, and is ultimately a creative and progressive thinker (Ne-Si). She channels her feelings and desires into her writing, so much so that she doesn't always end up writing the most practical or realistic literature, but it's filled with her authenticity, dreams, and idealism (Fi-Te). Her Te-practicality, realism and strategizing goes into her Shadowhunting and necromancy.

Christopher - Textbook INTP: Scientific thinking and pure logic rendering him socially awkward outside of his circle (Ti-Fe)? Check. The battle between innovativeness and tradition in his head when it comes to Shadowhunting techniques (Ne-Si)? Check.

Thomas - ISFJ: I consider ISFJs like Thomas to be the Sexy Hufflepuffs of the world. Thomas generally follows the rules and his set patterns unless they clash with his need to protect the ones he loves (Si-dom, Fe-aux). That's why he'll sometimes pull reckless and illogical shit like patrolling alone even when he knows it can get him hurt (weak Ti). Lastly, he proves capable of saying "screw everything I ever thought I believed in" when he needs to, re: Alastair (rare Ne usage).

Alastair: ESTJ: ESTJs, when they're emotionally aware like Alastair, can give off major Momma Bear energy with how efficiently they handle life and people. Alastair systematically takes care of his father when he's drunk, and he also strategically makes himself a bully at the academy when he realizes the need to be a Queen Bee. He ignores his own desires and authenticity in the process (Te-Fi). Likewise, he shows that he's capable of order, has a good memory, yet can be hilarious and surprising when need be (Si-Ne).

Anna: ENTJ - Anna has established an empire in London with her systematic seduction of London's ladies. She buries her internal strife and hurt to go about her conquest (Te-Fi). Furthermore, her emphasis on sex and seduction, and the building of this long-term queendom where she's the ringleader show clear signs of Ni-Se.

Grace: ISFJ - Grace, especially in ChoI, shows how she can holistically analyze her memories, recounting her childhood and the inevitable trauma she both faced and put James through and coming to a decisive decision about how she feels about herself and actions. Furthermore, the feelings of others, mostly Jesse and James, are always at the forefront of her mind (Si + Fe). She finally snaps and goes awol and defies the rules and structures she’s been groomed to follow at the end of ChoI when she confesses about the gracelet and gets fed up of Tatiana’s shit (inf-Ne).

Jesse: ENTP - Jesse is a rebel at heart. From his childhood, he's shown that he's keen on defying the rules and systems put in place by Tatiana and instead, wants to choose his own path: being a Shadowhunter, secretly training, insisting on a rune (Ne-Si). Furthermore, Jesse is a natural charmer who has Grace and Lucie's best interests at heart, and by extension, he's selfless when it comes to the people he loves (i.e. giving up his last breath to James), showing definite tert-Fe.

(Disclaimer: I'm not an MBTI expert or any kind of psychologist or anything. This was just for fun, and feel free to disagree and share your own typings if you want.)

[ill-be-istj-if-no-one-else-is]

Hello, Em! I was wondering if you would mind helping me find my type? I’ve narrowed it down to the Si-doms (slight margin of error for the IFP types, but I don’t see enough evidence for Ne or Se to be sure), but from there I’m having a hard time determining which fits better. I feel weakest when I don’t have much structure, and at work, I can be a bit of a pain because I’m always asking for clarification on new tasks. In college, I always felt like the vague assignments where the instructor (1)

doesn’t actually tell what they want were the worst. Most people see me as the logical one in the group. I think part of why I’ve maintained that image is that most of my family (especially my mom’s side) has never learned how to deal with their emotions well, so they try to always joke or become sarcastic. I’ve always gotten along with my dad’s family because I never feel like I’m being used as some sort of verbal target practice. I’ve never been good with expressing how I feel and prefer to (2

show it through actions. Whenever I’m dealing with family, I’m always honest (or else just quiet), and even when I’m talking to someone I don’t know well, I have a hard time softening the blow. I try, but it’s not something that comes easily. I’m typically relieved when someone else can take over dealing with people because I hate having to deal with people when they get upset. I typically take a quick dislike to people I think are too dramatic, but as long as they’re nice I can get over (3)

it fairly quickly. One of my favorite things about my boss is that he always asks how I’m doing when I come in in the morning and he always willing to jump in and cover shifts if he thinks someone’s not feeling well. I also have a difficult time with people who jump into things without thinking. One of my major issues with my mom is that I sometimes feel like I’m having to constantly re-plan things around her last-minute decisions. One of the things that my dad always points (4)

out as a weakness is that I’m too nice to people. I have a really hard time saying no to people, and I can be really easy to guilt trip. I’ve been pulled into a lot of things I really didn’t want to do because someone else talked me into it. A few years ago, I went with a group to an amusement park, and I got dragged along on things that I hated, all because my cousin asked. Even on the occasions when I have stood my ground, it’s taken a huge toll on me to know that I’ve disappointed someone (5)

I’m often torn between what others say about me and what I actually think. Every time I rediscover MBTI I get sucked into this endless loop of trying to somehow make sense of all the things others have said about me, what I think, and how it fits into the system. I was trying to pick a college major, I was constantly asking others what they thought would be a good choice, because I genuinely didn’t know what I wanted. I knew things I didn’t want (marketing psych, which I felt were mercenary) (6)

but I was torn between what I felt I ought to do (something that helped others) and what I was really interested in (history). I never thought of myself as good with people, but most people I know tell me that I come off as very sweet and likeable. Maybe not warm, but approachable and unintimidating. I tend to come off as studying people and waiting to judge them, even though there are some things where I just say NOPE and it can take years for me to change my mind. (7)

I did that when I first met my sister’s now husband. I thought they were rushing things and I was pretty upset over how much my sister had changed after they met. I’m still warming up to him, but he seems harmless. I’ve never been one to share my feelings with other people, but it can be so helpful to at least see them written out. I typically will have a decent idea of what I feel, but writing it down helps me really understand it and see when I’m really just being silly. Thank you!! (8)

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Hi anon,

This absolutely sounds like ISFJ; I would rule out the Fi-Te axis completely given the emphasis on what other people want and their opinions and I suspect the only reason you considered high Fi was the commonly-found, but in my opinion incorrect statement that Fi users are more private with their emotions.

Your conclusion of high Si seems right; you have difficulties with spontaneity and prefer clear, specific instructions, and prefer to observe before making up your mind though can be very slow to change it, and this post has a lot of very concrete examples.

As mentioned the strong emphasis on what other people want, at times to the exclusion of what you want, and placing a high value on social niceties seems clearly like Fe. Not all high Te users are sarcastic but I've found a lot of them (myself included) are at least very comfortable with it/don't mind a little verbal target practice as long as they can return it to sender. ISTJs (and other TJs) are also typically far more comfortable turning down requests from others and tend not to rely on others quite as much for personal decisions or self-assessment, especially since it sounds you're either towards the end of your college career or shortly post-college and would probably have at least some capacity to use tert Fi if you had it.

One thing I've thought about a lot regarding FJs and being "the logical one" is that I do think self-assessements are sometimes erroneous, but also, especially if you're in your early-to-mid-20s and especially if you have a more spontaneous friend group, an ISFJ very well might be the logical one. Maybe not in the academic sense of logical, but in terms of common sense and making decent life decisions, yeah, an ISFJ will probably outdo most ENTPs even if the latter's Ti is higher, because a lot of behaviors motivated by Si and Fe (caution, consideration for the feelings of others) are smart things to do in terms of like, living life. It's less "logical" than "reasonable", but that's a pretty nitpicky distinction on my part. Plenty of deeply logical people are actually wildly unrealistic, because people don't behave logically, so the actual reasonable thing to do is, well, behave like an ISFJ and take past behaviors and relevant context and how people might feel into account.

[mbti-notes]

Anon wrote: Hi, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge here, your work is truly a gift in providing reliable reference to study MBTI. I need help with typing my personality. I am a 29 y.o female, I was diagnosed with anxiety and had depressive episodes. My guess is I am an Ni-dom, I relate more with Fi-Te axis so I’m considering INTJ, but also INFJ because I don’t fully believe I am a thinking type.

For Ni dom and Se inferior (for INTJ and INFJ): I seek explanation for patterns that I see like noticing if the traffic is emptier than usual during a public holiday, then thinking maybe it’s because people are celebrating at home, or people celebrated last night until late. Then such observation informs my future planning i.e. “last year, people celebrated at home so the traffic might be empty during that public holiday and we should schedule a day out”.

Ni-Se is shown in how I often live based on “how things should be”, like following a tested routine that would ideally save time and money but gives me stress and discomfort, and I didn’t allow myself to spend money required to side-step inconveniences that suddenly happen outside of that routine because it doesn’t feel right. I postpone going outside unless all the conditions are met, like leaving at the intended time, have learned the route, and have planned what to do there.

Te-aux and Fi tert (for INTJ): For important project, I want to ensure there is high probability of success by searching for evidence like when applying for scholarship, I searched resumes of past awardees to model a situation i.e. “If I have A, B and C happen, there are higher chances of getting the scholarship. I haven’t found evidence where someone had those three and didn’t get it”, then look what factors I’m lacking and where to get it. In a leadership position, I want everyone to be engaged in the project, but if someone is being irrational, I believe it’s best to go with what gives best outcome because people will come around once they see good result.

I relate to Fi because I use my past experience as a way to relate to others, like often saying “If I were you…” or “I would do that too” which could point toward Fi. Tert Fi also made me criticize myself, like if I have an episode of uncontrolled emotion or if I have made another friend hate me, I would just say “Well, that’s just who you are, a person who have difficulty controlling your anger and bad at socializing".

Past loop behaviour (Ni-Fi but could be Ni-Ti): In high school, I was in science olympics, met people smarter than me, and started to fail more often. I also admired a guy (maybe INTP) because his intelligence comes from genuine interest in knowledge. So I rationalized my failure was because I chased external goals and because I wasn’t genuine enough like the INTP guy, then blamed my parents for giving pressure to achieve things (faulty conclusion), and started hating people who are ambitious or who follow the rules. I was inspired by some of the athletes which made me missed pursuing something competitively, so I decided to be competent in my chosen field starting by having good grades.

Fe-aux and Ti tert (for INFJ): I don’t fully relate with INTJ because I laugh a lot and smile a lot in a large group conversation, especially if I feel the need to impress that group, which I don’t see in the INTJs I knew. When talking to people, I search for topics that would will make it a good conversation (things that will encite strong emotions in them, or talk about their goal, or my goal, it should be a balanced exchange). I often assume what people are thinking, like “This person seems happier when talking to person A than when with me, maybe because I dissociated too much before so our connection was not as strong”. When watching movies, I am often interested in the characters’ motives and how they make decisions, and how the world responds to such characters.

My Fe could be unhealthy because I judge people quickly in a negative direction without having the patience to keep a neutral position to investigate first. My interaction with people ended up making me feel annoyed often because I focused on the bad qualities in people, like people using MBTI superficially to feel superior or people hating for the sake of hating other groups (could be Ni-Ti). I hope I give clear enough details on the function, and thank you again for helping me with this typing

----------------------

The submission instructions state that you must respond to all the points in the guide for every function you are examining. It appears you haven't used the guide properly, so your description is lacking in detail. You have given me the info you believe is relevant rather than giving me specifically what I asked for. This means I can't do a full analysis. There's enough for me to conclude that INTJ is unlikely, but not enough to confidently confirm that INFJ is the correct type.

[actually-infp]

hellooo! so i've recently (like a week ago) gotten into the cognitive functions part of mbti (ive been using 16personalities for wayy too long 😦) and i've been struggling to figure out if i'm an ENFP or INFP. i cant tell which is my dom func. and i still can't really grasp what tert or inf Te and Si look like. also loops and grips. and honestly i can't tell if i'm just trying to convince myself that i'm not an INFP bc i've a terribly stereotypical image of INFPs or bc i have a lot of (16personalities) INFP friends so i just want to feel special 😕

Statistically speaking, it’s more likely that your friends are mistyped and not true INFPs (especially if a lot of them identify this way).

I’d suggest forgetting about the stereotypes while you try to determine which one you are. Also, looking at loops and grips in the early stages will be confusing, so table those until you narrow down your options, and then come back to them for supplemental evidence to back up your choice.

To differentiate between INFP & ENFP it’s important to look at the order of cognitive functions, so I think you’re on track so far. They have identical functions in different orders, so start with your dominant function and consider how you get + maintain energy.

Extroversion v Introversion: When you venture into the world are you first looking outwards to explore connections and find your place, or are you looking inwards to see how the world fits in with you and forming connections from inwards->out. Are you likely to act first then speak, or think then act? Do you easily engage with the external world and the people in it and find energy in those interactions? Or do you retreat into your mind, and become energized by comfortable isolation? [Extroverts enjoy alone time and introverts enjoy socializing, so think deeper beyond that!]

Dominant Functions: Ne dominant users are led by this function, and it presents itself by the ability to be in a perpetual mode of formulating connections and branching out to explore possibilities. Meaning that they are always thinking of new ideas, new ways to do things, theorizing, hypothezing and most importantly they have the distinct inclination to not only dream up new possibilities, paths, and ideas, but they act on them much more frequently than an Ne auxiliary user. Fi is a quiet function and so it’s difficult to place because the Fi dominant user will be preoccupied with internal self analysis, value inspections, and moral alignment. They are led by Fi in every aspect of their personality and life, so they will often ruminate about how to actualize their ambitions and ideals into reality, but unlike the dominant Ne user, it takes an incredible amount of energy to act and they are often plagued with inaction or problems with follow through.

—> ENFP: Can appear open or reserved, but more easily engages. Exuberant, usually playful, but can be sullen when they feel like. Engaging, more likely to reveal their emotions and present outwardly as typical feeler, future oriented, takes creative initiative.

—> INFP: Reserved and less likely to engage. Calm, analytical, playful when they feel like, stoic and unwilling to reveal large displays of emotion, will outwardly appear as a thinker to most, but a rare select few will be granted access to their inner life.

[personalitiesinwriting]

MBTI and Stress:

Grip stress: Feels kinda like a panic attack, you freeze or burst into action. Usually caused by a shorter term stress that demands immediate solving. Result: Overdoing your first function desperate to solve the perceived problem.

Looping: Obsessive repeated thought patterns that you feel like you have no control over. Often regarding things such as justice, daydreaming, facts etc.

Cognitive transitioning: This is where your function stack is flipped, Dom-Aux-Tertiary-Inferior => Inf-Tert-Aux-Dom. This usually happens with prolonged stress. This starts because your dominant functions aren't solving the problem so your inferior functions get to give it a shot. Result: Utter chaos. Remember you don't use these functions a lot so you have some catching up to do on how to use them successfully.

[voyage-in-the-dark]

genshin impact mbti (mondstadt) - pt 2

I typed the other characters in part 1.

Klee - ESFP

She’s an Se-dom - focused on adventuring and exploring the physical world, restless and playful. F because she values her relationships and she genuinely doesn’t want to hurt the wrong people.

Lisa - looping ENFJ

She has tert Se and she’s an NJ. She’s flirty, lazy, sensual and enjoys sensory pleasures. NJ: she used to be focused, excelled at academia, chasing knowledge for the sake of it. 

She’s looping because in Sumeru, she saw what unchecked knowledge could lead to. This caused her to stop taking everything seriously and focus on indulging herself (unhealthy Ni, Se loop). 

F rather than T because she avoids all responsibility for tasks/projects (no sign of Te) and she uses her smarts to think of clever ways to slack off and get out of things (Ti).

Mona - INTJ

Ni-dom: she’s living the starving artist life for her art and she’s all about pursuing the deeper truth. T rather than F: blunt and tactless when people come and consult her, focused on her work more than people/relationships.

Noelle - ISFJ

She’s like an ISFJ stereotype. She’s a cinnamon roll, kind and by-the-books, all about serving and helping others, humble and down-to-earth.

Razor - ISFP

He’s an ISxP - introverted, solitary, simple and straightforward, focusing on sensory pleasures. Fi-dom because he is very loyal and protective. His story arc is also that of an F: he learnt what ‘friends’ were and he was motivated only by protecting his Lupical and friends. 

The scene where he got his Vision is an SFP anime moment - his loved ones (Lupical) were under threat by an Abyss mage, and his fury and helplessness led to him getting his Vision.

Diona - ESFP

She’s an ESxP - focuses on the physical/practical aspects of the world, restless, bold, straightforward. Her plan to take down the wine industry by making bad drinks is straightforward and simple (S). F rather than T because she’s motivated solely by feelings for everything she does.

Venti - INFP

I’m torn between INFP and ENFP. We just don’t know enough about him to tell. In the Dvalin arc, his Fi empathy for Dvalin was very obvious - he emphasized many times that Dvalin was in a lot of pain and he remembered their bond. He’s free-spirited and idealistic, seeing things through rose-tinted glasses. 

[mbtimyths]

Intro to MBTI in brief

The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) is a personality assessment based on the theory of cognitive preferences by Carl Jung and developed by Isabel Myers and Katharine Briggs.

It can be used as a tool to understand the ways people think.

People gather information via their senses (observation and experience) and intuition (concept and pattern).

People process information via logic (true/false and correct/incorrect) and values (right/wrong and good/bad).

Individual nervous systems are uniquely attuned to two functions: one method of gathering information (called a perceiving function) + one method of processing information (called a judging function). Bodies become accustomed to using one of those two functions to respond to their environment, and one to respond to itself. These preferences are established early in life; they do not change over time, but may be developed and emphasized in a variety of ways throughout a lifetime. Every body uses all four functions to respond to their environment, but develops favorites that their brain reinforces by building up their respective neural connections.

In MBTI, these four functions are known as:

Sensing

iNtuition

Thinking

Feeling

If you tend to use your favorite function to respond to stimulus originated outside of you, this is called Extroversion. If you tend to use your favorite function to respond to stimulus originated inside of you, this is called Introversion.

If you tend to use your favorite judging function in an extraverted way, you are called a Judger. If you tend to use your favorite perceiving function in an extraverted way, you are called a Perceiver.

Every person uses all four functions in both ways, ergo there are eight cognitive functions total. A person’s order of preference for how they use the cognitive functions to operate is known as their personality type.

In MBTI, the eight cognitive functions are known as:

extraverted Sensing (Se)

introverted Sensing (Si)

extraverted iNtuition (Ne)

introverted iNtuition (Ni)

extraverted Thinking (Te)

introverted Thinking (Ti)

extraverted Feeling (Fe)

introverted Feeling (Fi)

Each cognitive function manifests as a competency in an area:

Se- power

Si- preservation

Ne- possibility

Ni- opportunity

Te- procedure

Ti- structure

Fe- expression

Fi- evaluation

And each cognitive function translates to a condition of value:

Se- agency

Si- consistency

Ne- relevancy

Ni- potency

Te- efficacy

Ti- cogency

Fe- congruity

Fi- integrity

There are rational constraints to a person’s order of their cognitive functions (also known as the order of their function stack).

A perceiving function is followed by a judging function and vice versa (a method of input implicates a method of output).

An extraverted function is followed by an introverted function and vice versa (homeostasis necessitates feedback).

An extraverted function is not immediately followed by the corresponding introverted function and vice versa (balance maintains operation).

With these constraints, sixteen permutations are possible, resulting in sixteen personality types. They are denoted as:

INFJ

ENFJ

INFP

ENFP

ISFJ

ESFJ

ISFP

ESFP

INTJ

ENTJ

INTP

ENTP

ISTJ

ESTJ

ISTP

ESTP

As an example, an INFJ’s function stack is denoted as Ni-Fe-Ti-Se-Ne-Fi-Te-Si.

Each type is drawn to a unique theme derived from the interaction of their favorite two functions, known as the preferred function pair:

INFJ- sagacity

ENFJ- diplomacy

INFP- sincerity

ENFP- originality

ISFJ- security

ESFJ- solidarity

ISFP- virtuosity

ESFP- sensibility

INTJ- perspicacity

ENTJ- pragmaticality

INTP- coherency

ENTP- ingenuity

ISTJ- stability

ESTJ- savvy

ISTP- mastery

ESTP- dexterity

The position of a cognitive function in a function stack changes its behavior. The positions are commonly denoted as:

Dominant / leading

Auxiliary / creative

Tertiary / mobilizing

Inferior / anima

Fifth / opposing

Sixth / demonstrative

Seventh / trickster

Eighth / demon

Positions 1-4 are collectively known as the Ego. Positions 5-8 are collectively known as the Shadow. The shadow parallels the ego. Ego functions are constructive and familiar, while shadow functions are destructive and unfamiliar. Ego functions are used regularly, while shadow functions are reserved for use in distress. The preferred pair of functions of the ego and shadow (1 & 2, 5 & 6 respectively) are strengths; the remaining are weaknesses. The “outer” pair of functions of the ego and shadow (1 & 4, 5 & 8 respectively) are receptive– used to connect to the self– and the remaining are productive– used to connect to others.

A combination of development and health influence the presentation of a type. If underdeveloped or unhealthy, an individual may fall back on their shadow functions, causing them to behave like the type that mirrors them on a bad day.

The healthy/unhealthy presentations of the functions in each position are:

Dom- motivates/tempts

Aux- guides/curbs

Tert- advises/pesters

Inf- supports/distracts

5th- questions/obstructs

6th- critiques/chastises

7th- challenges/restrains

8th- pressures/threatens

An individual may experience the functions in each positions as:

Dom- orienting

Aux- directing

Tert- backing

Inf- assisting

5th- perturbing

6th- repulsing

7th- distressing

8th- devastating

When overstimulated, the dominant and tertiary functions may form a closed feedback loop. To break out of a loop, the auxiliary function must be activated.

When understimulated, the auxiliary and inferior functions may form a closed feedback loop, known as a grip. To break out of a grip, the tertiary function must be activated.

In addition to their type, a person may exhibit a partiality for their auxiliary function over their dominant function. While this does not mean their stack order is different from individuals of the same type that are partial to their dominant function, it does call for recognition of subtypes. Aux-pref subtypes appear to be more outgoing than their dom-pref counterparts because the auxiliary function connects to others. A subtype is denoted by a dash followed by the abbreviation of the preferred function. For example, and INFJ who favors their auxiliary function is denoted as INFJ-Fe.

Finally, while MBTI can be used to understand how a person takes in information and processes information, it does not speak to what drives the way a person uses that information, known as the Ego Drive. For this reason, people often supplement their MBTI type with their Enneagram or Millon types (or even their Alignments or Hogwarts Houses!)

MBTI does not seek to put people in boxes; it attempts to outline people-shaped boxes. What fills those boxes is irreplicable and unlimited, but defining the approximate boundary of that infinite space can facilitate tolerance and understanding. Happy typing!