#feelings on him being rhaegar and lyanna’s son.

[atopvisenyashill]

*tom sevenstrings strumming in the background* he is not one of uuuuuuuuuus!!!!

[megsironthrone]

Fated

Based on this request: Can you do a Robert Baratheon x stark!reader. The reader fostered with Ned at the vale and she gets pregnant with mya stone but a couple of months after the birth the reader was sent away the to foster a another house and she took mya with her and Robert has to marry Lyanna but he doesn’t love her he loves the reader and they reunited at the day rheagar crown Lyanna and Robert doesn’t want to marry her anymore and so they changed it so that he marry the reader. I hope that makes sense.

Here you are, lovely! The request was changed just slightly. *Familiar characters are NEVER mine!*

Warnings: AU, angsty. fluffy. Pre-show events AS romantic as I can possibly make Robert.

Pairings/Characters: Robert Baratheon x fem!Stark reader, Lyanna Stark x Rhaegar Targaryen

You watched with tears in your eyes as the Vale grew smaller in the distance. You clutched little Mya to your chest while she cooed. You knew your guardian would be livid at the fact that you had given birth to Robert Baratheon's bastard, but you never thought they'd send you away, especially since Robert didn't even know of the child's existence. They sent you away from the only home you'd ever known to be fostered elsewhere until someone could marry you off. It would be a while before you saw Robert again.

*time skip*

       "Stop fidgeting." You instantly stilled, "Forgive me, Lady Olenna." Lady Olenna Tyrell had been the one to take you and Mya in after your former guardian pushed you out. You had been “raised” alongside her son, Mace, who was older than you. Olenna sighed. She had come to love you and Mya like her own family over the time you'd been a ward of Highgarden. But she knew you were anxious about this visit to King’s Landing. 

When word had reached Highgarden of Robert’s victory and coronation as King of Westeros, you had felt your heart leap with joy that he was alive. Only your heart sank once more when you heard that he was now betrothed to Lyanna, your sister. You loved Lyanna, of course. She was a fierce woman to be admired and was certainly a match for Robert. That didn’t mean you had to like it. In truth, even after all that time, you still loved Robert. Your sister didn’t as far as you knew. 

When the wheelhouse stopped outside the Red Keep, you let out a breath, gathered up little Mya, and stepped out after Lady Olenna. It only took a moment for you to hear, “Sister!” Then you felt Lyanna’s arms wrapping around you and your daughter. “I have missed you!” You attempted to smile at her. You knew it wasn’t her idea to marry the man you loved. 

Someone clearing their throat had Lyanna pulling back from you. You glanced up to see someone who could only be Rhaegar Targaryen standing there. You curtsied before letting your eyes travel to the man next to him. Robert. His blue eyes were riveted on you for a moment before they began bouncing between you and Mya. You greeted the new king as was customary with a “Your Grace,” but your eyes never left his face as you watched him piece together your little secret. 

“Lady Y/N,” Rhaegar broke the awkward tension, “Welcome to King’s Landing.” You gave him a tight smile as Lyanna took your elbow to lead you inside. You could feel Robert’s gaze on you. Lyanna led you to the chambers made up for you and finally let go of your elbow. She glanced around before plopping down on your bed. She looked uncomfortable and you couldn’t tell if it was because she hated being trapped indoors on such a nice day or if she had something to say.

After what seemed like an eternity, she spoke, “I’m sorry.” Your brows drew together in confusion. “What for?” Mya fussed a bit, but you calmed her as you waited for your sister to explain. “Marrying Robert. It was not my idea. I-I know how much you loved him.” You gave her a soft smile. “You do? I didn’t think anyone knew, but I do know that you would never hurt me like this. You never liked the idea of marriage and I’m certain you-” you cut off when you noticed her cheeks tinted pink. 

“What?” Lyanna bit her lip as she motioned for you to come closer. When you drew near, she whispered, “I don’t want to marry him, Y/N.” You smiled and nodded, but she continued, “Because I’m in love with someone else. W-We plan to run off before the wedding.” Your eyes widened, but before you could speak, there was a knock on the door. You hugged Mya a little closer as Lyanna called out and the door opened. 

Robert stood on the other side, his eyes meeting yours once again. “Out,” he stated, causing Lyanna to raise a brow. “It’s alright, Lyanna. We’ll speak again later.”  Your sister sighed, but left the room all the same. Before she walked out of sight, she whispered something to Robert.

Once Lyanna had left, you spoke up. “You’re angry.” Robert’s blue eyes darkened, “Furious, more like. Why the hells didn’t you tell me?!” You rolled your eyes. “When? I didn’t know the last time we saw each other. Once it was discovered, the septa watched me like a hawk to try and determine who the father was. I-I wouldn’t say. I knew how important your titles were as the eldest son and I didn’t know what would happen to you if it got out you’d fathered a bastard. By the time I was free to send a raven, word came that you were being crowned king. You didn’t need to be saddled with the scandal.”

“That wasn’t only your choice to make, Y/N!” You huffed and set Mya down on the floor to play. “King or not, you do NOT yell at me, Robert Baratheon. Especially not in front of my daughter.” Robert opened and closed his fists a few times in an action you knew he used to calm himself. You were one of the few people he would never hit. 

“And now you’re betrothed to my sister. You will marry and have children with her. I expect nothing from you, Robert. Nor will Mya.” Robert’s brows furrowed. He looked deep in thought for a moment until little Mya decided to stand on shaky legs and wobble her way over to him. He looked down when he felt her fall into his legs. 

Without thinking twice, Robert scooped up the little girl in his arms. She gave him a toothy grin and laid her head on his chest with her tiny fist in her mouth. Robert looked up at you and then back down at his daughter. “Hells!” he nearly yelled, but changed his tone to a softer one so as not to scare Mya, “I’m the king, right?” You arched a brow and nodded, unsure where he was going with this. “I say who gets married or not. I won’t marry Lyanna. I don’t want to.”

“Robert, you can’t just break off an engagement like that!”

“Yes he/I can!” Robert and Lyanna, who had decided to burst into the room at that moment, replied in unison. You jumped a little and Mya began to fuss. Robert froze and you stifled a giggle. This man, this hardened warrior, looked absolutely petrified at the crying child in his arms. You swiftly took her from him and shushed her. 

Robert glanced at Lyanna and then at Rhaegar, who stood behind her in the doorway. “Planned on running off, did ya?” Robert asked and Rhaegar’s eyes widened. Lyanna jutted out her chin in defiance. “Yes, if you must know. Now we don’t have to because you’re going to marry my sister and have a dozen more babies while Rhaegar and I marry and leave to find our own adventures.”

“Do I not get a say in this?” you asked, bouncing Mya. Lyanna looked at you. “I mean, I guess Robert could always marry Cersei Lannister and you could find some lord to marry. Maybe Mace Tyrell.” You grimaced at the thought and Lyanna continued, “Besides, Lyanna of Houses Stark and Targaryen suits me better. You and Robert were always meant to be.” You couldn’t help but chuckle at your sister before meeting Robert’s gaze once more. 

“Well? What are you waiting for?” you asked after a moment and Robert’s expression shifted to one of confusion. You laughed. “I positively demand a proper proposal from the king if I am to marry him.” Lyanna and Rhaegar quickly left the room after Lyanna took her niece with your permission. 

Once the door closed behind them, Robert met your gaze. “Come on, Y/N.” You crossed your arms over your chest with a smirk on your lips. Robert was absolutely not a romantic person so this was torture for him. “Oh, just marry me, woman!” At your unimpressed look, he added, “Please. You know I love you.” You beamed. “That’s all I needed to hear.” You stepped closer to him and kissed him deeply.

(a/n: I hope you like it!)

Forever Tags: @fizzyxcustard @brewsthespirit-blog @line-viper @etherealpotter @cd1242 @frozenhuntress67 @smalltownbigheart @gruffle1 @supernatural4life2022 @asgards-princess-of-mischief

[queen-helaenas-pet-spider]

Satin Flowers Theories That Spark Joy:

1. He is a highborn!!!!

DEFINITELY POSSIBLE!!!!!! Satin having skills that mainly a highborn would have {reading, writing, etc}, him being bad at keeping fires in Jon's fireplace going {which is something a servant would do, and not a highborn}, etc.

2. He is the real Prince Aegon Targaryen {son of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen and Princess Elia Martell *who was "killed" when Tywin Lannister and his army sacked King's Landing*} and not Young Griff!!!!

A little out there, I know, but it's a fun theory!!!!!!!! If Satin is Rhaegar and Elia's Aegon, and Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's Aegon {or whatever Jon's real name might be, I really hope it's not Aegon}, then that means Jon Snow has been one - sidedly trying to court his half brother for 3 books {knowing the Valyrian's, that's not a bad thing, but they're both men, and one or both of them might not be into it}.

And if they're both Rhaegar's sons, them and Daenerys {Rhaegar's little sister} completes yet another 3 headed dragon {Dany as Aegon The Conqueror, Satin/Potential Aegon #? as Rhaenys, and Jon/Potential Aegon #? as Visenya. Walk with me. W A L K W I T H M E ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! }

More cons: 1. Satin being Rhaegar and Elia's Aegon would mean that another heir to the Iron Throne has thrown his life away to serve at a place that will kill you if you try to quit. And 2. As far as we know, Jon and their friends are the only support he has, and that wouldn't be enough to help him reclaim the throne {that Daenerys is also fighting for}.

3. He is one of Robert Baratheon's bastards!!!

Robert {a Baratheon man with Targaryen blood} was in love with a Stark man {Ned Stark, and not Ned's sister Lyanna *who went to war for, but couldn't even remember what she looked like*} and now Jon {A Stark man with Targaryen blood} in love with another potential Baratheon man with Targaryen blood?!?!?!?! {They'd still be related, but not as close as they'd be if he was Rhaegar and Elia's Aegon!!!!!!!!}

---

Satin Flowers Theories That DO NOT Spark Joy:

1. He is one of Littlefinger's MANY spies!!!!

WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT?!?!?! I mean, if it somehow ties into Littlefinger's whole climb up the Ladder plan, sure. But other than that, he would just wasting his time, money, and a very pretty boy that can make him even richer.

2. HE IS ONE OF JON SNOW'S KILLERS!!!!

No matter Satin's possible station in the world, he literally has NOTHING to gain from killing Jon!!!! Jon comforted him when he was scared, stayed by his side while fighting, elevated his status {which includes living with Jon in his chambers instead of barracks full of men that hate him}, verbally tore apart all who talked shit about him, etc!!!!

The only thing Satin gains from killing one of his very few supporters, would be getting hurt and killed by enemies. Saying that Satin Flowers is one of the men that killed Jon Snow is about as believable as Sansa Stark causing the Doom Of Valyria {which happened centuries before she was born, but knowing Sansa antis, I'm sure they've found a way to blame her for that, too 🙄🙄💀💀}.

---

Or, Satin Flowers could be just as GRRM introduced him as: A former sex worker turned into a man of the Night’s Watch, nothing more, nothing less. But I have a feeling that GRRM has plans for Satin, and I PRAY those don't include hurting or killing him right after the mutiny, or him being a traitor. Either of those would kill Jon....again....💀💀💔💔

[rise-my-angel]

'BuT NeD ThInKs PoSiTiVeLy Of RhAeGaR' Ned thinks of Rhaegar ONCE that he was a man unlikely to visit brothels. From this we can conclude that he was not a sex pest like Robert. How on earth does this inform of Ned's personal feelings though? Ned is comparing Robert and Rhaegar and thinking in factual terms. Its similar to how he thinks of Aerys killing his father and brother but not once does he express hatred against Aerys. But we do know what he would think of Aerys, its common sense. Even if we go by 'Lyanna was willing' idea, Lyanna still died because Rhaegar impregnated her at 15 and then left her imprisoned without proper healthcare. She died because of Rhaegar's actions. People who use this argument are usually those who don't understand Ned's character very clearly, he is a man who while suffering from ptsd, suppresses painful emotions and feelings.

Ned Stark is SO MUCH more complicated then those people will ever give him credit for. They are desperate to paint him as so easily black and white when he is the most "living in the grey area" man to literally ever exist. They also refuse to give any context to that scene.

Because it isn't really Rhaegar Neds thinking about in that scene, it's Jon. Ned is in a brothel looking for one of Roberts many bastards, and connecting Robert to Lyanna to Rhaegar he wonders if Rhaegar was like Robert in that sense. The question Ned is really asking, is if there is a possibility that there are more people out there like Jon. He's asking himself if he's sure that Jon is alone and comes to the conclusion that yes, Rhaegar probably didn't sleep around like Robert and this comes to the conclusion that the only secret child of Rhaegars is in fact, still Jon.

But it's like you said, Ned strongly buries his true emotions deep down. He is a very traumatized man who has never truly gotten past the point in his life where his sister died in front of him. Ned is still trapped in that room and the haunting smell of blood and roses. Ned was described as catatonic for a while after Lyanna died and he never truly came out of that emotionally. He keeps everything inside very deeply and is utterly haunted with that upcoming trauma once the main story starts. His every action in Kings Landing is rooted in that trauma of what happened to Lyanna and the deep fear of what will happen to Jon. Everything he does in Kings Landing is about that, Neds priority in the story, is Jon. That dicates everything he does in the main plot because he is deeply traumatized and terrifed of what will happen to his son.

There's even a strong argument to be made that had Robert never come to Winterfell and involved the Starks directly within the dealings of the Crown, that Ned wouldn't ever have let Jon join the Nights Watch. That agree or disagree with letting him, that a big reason he allows it, is out of the fear of Jon being anywhere near the people Ned's spent Jons entire life protecting him from. That Ned would rather Jon be in the Nights Watch, then hunted down and murdered by Robert.

Ned the entire story and half of his life has been burying very deeply rooted trauma of what happened to Lyanna, and has been motivated that same time to put Jon as one of his biggest priorities right up until his death. But because he keeps this all buried deep inside, its easy for people, mostly Rhaegar defenders, to paint him as black and white, a bad father, a mindless soldier with no autonomy outside of Robert, a selfish man.

Ned Stark is one of the best written characters in recent literature, theres a reason he's still remembered and talked about to this day, and it is certainly not because he is as black and white as Rhaegar stans desperately try to slander him as.

[aerltarg]

thinking again about my sad boys, aegon and rhaegar, the dragonbane and the last dragon, being depressed since childhood, finding solace in their happy ladies, daenaera and lyanna. but while aegon's older siblings died, rhaegar lost his younger ones. but hey, at least aegon got to be close to his dear younger bro viserys! meanwhile, rhaegar just couldn't have a chance to build any proper relationship with his younger bro viserys, with everything between them. also to think that daeron the young dragon was aegon and daenaera's son and jon, rhaegar and lyanna's son, admired him and considered him one of his heroes... oh bless them, i love them so much

[...] As she stood before the king that Maiden’s Day, clad in pale white silk, Myrish lace, and pearls, her long hair shining in the torchlight and her cheeks flush with excitement, Daenaera was but six years old, yet so beautiful she took the breath away. The blood of Old Valyria was strong in her, as is oft seen in the sons and daughters of the seahorse; her hair was silver laced with gold, her eyes as blue as a summer sea, her skin as smooth and pale as winter snow. “She sparkled,” Mushroom says, “and when she smiled, the singers in the galley rejoiced, for they knew that here at last was a maid worthy of a song.” Daenaera’s smile transformed her face, men agreed; it was sweet and bold and mischievious, all at once. Those who saw it could not fail to think, “Here is a bright, sweet, happy little girl, the perfect antidote to the young king’s gloom.” (Fire & Blood)

When Aegon III returned her smile and said, “Thank you for coming, my lady, you look very pretty,” even Lord Unwin Peake surely must have known that the game was lost. (Fire & Blood)

[...] Hope and good feeling reigned over the Red Keep as the new year dawned. Though younger than her predecessor, Queen Daenaera was a happier child, and her sunny nature did much to lighten the king’s gloom…for a while, at the least. Aegon III was seen about the court more often than had been his wont, and even left the castle on three occasions to show his bride such sights as the city offered (though he refused to take her to the Dragonpit, where Lady Rhaena’s young dragon, Morning, made her lair). His Grace seemed to take a new interest in his studies, and Mushroom was oft summoned to entertain the king and queen at supper (“The sound of the queen’s laughter was like music to this fool, so sweet that even the king was known to smile”). (Fire & Blood)

[...] “But I am not certain it was in Rhaegar to be happy.” “You make him sound so sour,” Dany protested. “Not sour, no, but… there was a melancholy to Prince Rhaegar, a sense…” The old man hesitated again. “Say it,” she urged. “A sense…?” “…of doom. He was born in grief, my queen, and that shadow hung over him all his days.” Viserys had spoken of Rhaegar's birth only once. Perhaps the tale saddened him too much. “It was the shadow of Summerhall that haunted him, was it not?” “Yes. And yet Summerhall was the place the prince loved best. He would go there from time to time, with only his harp for company. Even the knights of the Kingsguard did not attend him there. He liked to sleep in the ruined hall, beneath the moon and stars, and whenever he came back he would bring a song. When you heard him play his high harp with the silver strings and sing of twilights and tears and the death of kings, you could not but feel that he was singing of himself and those he loved.” (ASOS, Daenerys IV)

“At the welcoming feast, the prince had taken up his silver-stringed harp and played for them. A song of love and doom, Jon Connington recalled, and every woman in the hall was weeping when he put down the harp.” (ADWD, The Griffin Reborn)

“The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle.” (ASOS, Bran II)

“By night the prince played his silver harp and made her weep. When she had been presented to him, Cersei had almost drowned in the depths of his sad purple eyes.” (AFFC, Cersei V)

“No one knew,” said Meera, “but the mystery knight was short of stature, and clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield was a heart tree of the old gods, a white weirwood with a laughing red face.” (ASOS, Bran II)

“Whoever he was, the old gods gave strength to his arm. [...] the common folk cheered lustily for the Knight of the Laughing Tree, as the new champion soon was called. When his fallen foes sought to ransom horse and armor, the Knight of the Laughing Tree spoke in a booming voice through his helm, saying, 'Teach your squires honor, that shall be ransom enough.'” (ASOS, Bran II)

“He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister’s eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black.” (AGOT, Eddard I)

“Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm’s End. “I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale.” Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. “Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man’s nature. (AGOT, Eddard IX)

“It was said that Rhaegar had named that place the tower of joy.” (AGOT, Eddard X)

[15-lizards]

i feel like being messy so 24, 32, 35 and 36 :3

24. A ship that gives you the absolute ick

Snowstorm idec. I like that they’re foils and parallels to each other but I’m gonna be honest Jon gets on my nerves too much to enjoy this ship. I still love him that’s my smartass son but like what if he’s mean or callous to Dany…I would have to kill him again like sorry I don’t play about her

32. A fancast you absolutely can’t stand

Henry Cavill as Aegon or Robert I think we all get the gist of that one. But also Olivia Hussey or any other conventionally attractive actress who looks like a model for Lyanna. She’s scrawny and long faced and hooked nosed to me and she hasn’t fully grown into her features yet her ass would not be an instagram model

35. A character you just don’t get the hype of

Everyone knows my distaste for Rhaegar this isn’t a secret. I think he’s a really compelling character but I hate seeing all that true love bullshit. Also this isn’t really someone I don’t get the “hype” of but sometimes I get bored of Jon don’t crucify me. His motivations and storyline are delicious but sometimes I get bored of the stoic and callous broody Byronic hero personality we got going on Sorry.

36. What’s something you wish GRRM handled better? (a character/theme/world building etc)

Fleshing out the differing cultures but if you’ve followed me for more than five minutes you already know that. Mainly I get whiplash with the way he writes women. Bc you have everything going on with Cat and Cersei and Brienne. And then there’s “yeah she was his wife. She died” and “the hottest six year old bride in the kingdom” and “yeah my thirteen year old main character is really hot and I’m going to talk about it an uncomfortable amount” I feel like you’re missing your own point sometimes George

[mysticalprincesskitten]

I'm an ASOIAF fan reading the series for the third time at age 28. Here are my thoughts and opinions 390 pages into AGOT:

Dany's chapters are so uncomfortable in AGOT. Her entire relationship with Drogo is chilling, and if I'm being honest, the constant child p0rn and problematic comments made by GRRM about Daenerys in real life (calling her hot, saying he'd love to go out to dinner with her as she's a "very beautiful woman") make me think the author is sexually attracted to Daenerys. It's disgusting. She's a 13 year old at the beginning of the story, and 16 at the end of ADWD. Nothing about her and Drogo is a seduction. It is child p0rn.

I feel so sorry for Dany. Unlike the Starklings, she's never known love or happiness or safety or family, except for the House with Red Door. Viserys is such an abusive asswipe.

I also really relate to Dany as someone who's grown up in an abusive environment. Her finding strength within herself as the blood of the dragon is empowering af.

Last Dany point: After Viserys rejects her gifts like the piece of crap he is, Dany curls up with Rhaegal's egg and feels baby Rhaego in her belly reach out to the dragon egg, "brother to brother." Idk, it's kind of adorable. Rhaego and Rhaegal, both named after Rhaegar.

Okay, back to Westeros.

Robert Baratheon is a terrible king and a terrible person. I can see why such a percentage of the male ASOIAF fandom worship him.

Ah, Ned. You're kindness in a world of cruelty.

Bran and Dancer parallel Dany and her silver nicely.

Jon Snow is Lyanna's son through and through, and we never saw him on the show. Idk who Kit Harington was playing but it wasn't Jon Snow from ASOIAF.

Still groan every time I'm at a Catelyn chapter.

[swordsandarms]

So much ping-pong-ing between Rhaegar and Aerys/Tywin/Gregor that most people forget the Rebels were always going to kill those children - Tywin/Gregor just saved them half a face in having Robert/Jon Arryn/Ned Stark only condoning it instead of carrying out the deed themselves. (Jaime literally spells it out but he's only considered as spelling out "hard truths" when it's about Aerys - a Targaryen - only).

After the Trident, Ned went on South to "win Robert a throne". Robert's claim/ascension couldn't exist or mentain itself as long as they were alive, the boys in particular. Aegon was always going to die (and Viserys if they caught him). At the hands of the "good" Rebels, yes. The girls might be valuable to strengthen the claims of Robert's sons, perhaps. But you'll really have people wistfully dreaming about "Rhaenys living" and portray her as hating her Targaryen family and somehow not the Rebels? (Yes, including Ned Stark, because, yes, Starks would be monsters to her, too). They would have killed her baby brother and forced Joffrey on her. They would force her into marriage to carry children for them as they eventually would've Sansa.

As to it being all due to Rhaegar, people sure love to theorise about what the whole alliances moves among the Lords meant even before that (because out with the nasty Targs, yay!) and not the fact that...it always meant killing the babies, too. Yes, it eventually all happened in a hurry in response to Aerys' actions, but think: Brandon>Catelyn>Ned>Arryn>Robert>Lyanna (+Tywin trying to get on with Lysa>Jaime). They are all circling Robert, the one who would push a Targaryen ancestry claim later on. Not a "give us Aerys and Rhaegar/justice and then innocent Aegon can have his throne".

I saw this post about "Ned can only be seen as kind as long as you don't have Theon's side of things" because Theon is one of the child victims in between the squabbles to give to and keep Robert's throne. And Ned would have killed him, if needed, and everyone needs to accept it.

But it is the same with Aegon and Rhaenys. People are getting so lost in the fact that he feels sorry about it and the fact that he won't stand for the murder of Daenerys' literal baby, or hiding Jon, and of Cersei's in older age, that the truth slips through: it is guilt; it is not wanting to be complicit in child murder again. (And with Cersei's children is blurred lines, because he will be the one lawfully and dutifully setting Robert on them and knows his "fury will follow them to the end of earth").

[thevelaryons]

Is there any credence to the Jacaera affair rumour? Would Jace Velaryon be the sort to have an affair with his fellow bastard Sara Snow?

So I have a twofold (technically threefold) answer to this. Is there credence to the rumour? Yes (but also no). Would Jace have an affair? No.

The rumour itself is clearly GRRM going wink wink nudge nudge to his readers with the whole "doomed prince of Dragonstone has an affair with a wild wolf girl". It's one of the biggest hints towards the Rhaegar/Lyanna relationship, which has been referred to as the central mystery of the series in regards to Jon Snow's parentage. Jace and Rhaegar's character can be compared in really interesting ways with the rumoured affair being one of them. That's obviously the main reason but there are other functions of the rumour as well because of the comparisons that can be drawn between Jace and his narrative counterpart, Robb Stark, from the main series or even to the actions of other bastards in the story.

So the importance of the affair exists for the overall narrative/themes. HOWEVER, in-universe, there are several points against this rumour:

The rumour was created by Mushroom who was not in Winterfell but half a continent away. He is known for coming up with nonsensical rumours just because he can.

The Pact of Ice and Fire was made to achieve a marriage between Jace's future daughter and Cregan's son, to cement an alliance between Targaryen and Stark. But if Jace married Sara, then there is no purpose to this pact.

If Jace bedded Sara, then why would a man as strict about honor as Cregan is, tolerate him. If Jace married Sara, then why would Cregan hold a fondness for someone who breaks his betrothal/oath that had previously been upheld for many years.

In the likelihood that Sara did exist and if Jace happened to fall in love with her, he would not do anything about it. He would keep those feelings to himself and never speak a word of it to anyone. Which of course would provide its own interesting examination of his character.

Jace is simply not selfish enough to have an affair. Because that's what something like that truly entails: putting your own feelings/affections first ahead of everything else. From the very beginning, Jace is presented as someone who is acting in favour of the people around him and never for his own sake. Even his death shows his self-sacrificing nature when he flies directly into enemy lines in a desperate attempt to find & save his little brother. His nature is to prioritize others, always before himself. Breaking the betrothal to Baela would be insulting to her and cause a problem (both political and personal) within his family.

In the context of the show, this remains true as well. There's a scene in episode 7 during the funeral where Jace says something like "I'm entitled to sympathy too" and Rhaenyra basically shuts him down and tells him to think about others. So he's being raised to think a certain way from a very young age. This mindset wouldn't suddenly change once the war gets underway.

Obviously the subject of his bastardy plays a key part here. Jace, unlike for example, his fathers or grandfathers, does not have the privilege to act as he pleases. He has to hold himself to a more stricter standard and for someone in his position, even the idea of having an affair would be unthinkable.

[horizon-verizon]

Re: Ned and Cersei

People saying “what was Ned supposed to do” misses the point. The point was that he’s seen Robert hit Cersei so hard that it knocked her to the floor, knows Robert is capable of child murder and femicide and decides that his construction of truth and honor (feudal and patriarchal) is worth femicide and murder of children.

Only because Cersei takes her fate into her hands and murders her rapist and abuser to protect her children does this change, at which point Varys’ salt in the wound reminder of what wagon Ned hitched his horse to so long ago actually looks like, convinces Ned to violate his beloved honor for the first time.

Reminder: the concept of truth is actively constructed through social and political institutions. Cersei’s children being bastards (LEGALLY NOT THE CASE) is a truth; so is Jon being Rhaegar and Lyanna’s bastard son. Which “truth” is Ned willing to reveal ? Which one will he always hide ?

For his sister’s honor, memory, and last wish, he will lie to the man he overlooked child murder for, he will endanger his own family to keep the secret, he will hold his tongue for fifteen years, he will bear his wife believing he cheated on her, he will endure the bitterness his son will inevitably feel at being a bastard. Because he intimately knows Robert’s nature. Yet Ned is willing to expose another woman and her children to the consequences of truth, the same consequences he’s shielded his sister’s son and sister’s memory from.

If you follow me or just care enough to keep track of my posts and leave such great asks, I'm very lucky. Thank you.

at which point Varys’ salt in the wound reminder of what wagon Ned hitched his horse to so long ago actually looks like, convinces Ned to violate his beloved honor for the first time.

Cersei’s children being bastards (LEGALLY NOT THE CASE) is a truth; so is Jon being Rhaegar and Lyanna’s bastard son. Which “truth” is Ned willing to reveal ? Which one will he always hide ?

The point is that for all his "duty" and "honor" and the fandom's general tradition of thinking he's a good person just because he is a dutiful person...

when it counts the most for those things to go towards protecting the peace and safety of those most vulnerable even at some risk to himself (where is duty, where is "sacrifice?!"), Ned does not practice such moral nobility. He look for a way out for himself and his family. His fear of Robert is exposed at the same time as his making Cersei more of Robert's target of violence. He knows that it could swing towards him at any moment if Robert learns of Jon, yet he convinces himself that what he does with Cersei is him being merciful towards her AND "honorable". He still thinks he can have it both ways bc he doesn't want to face that these things are opposed and thus confront his own actions throughly, as you and the others have said.

These traditions of "honor" expose themselves as fraudulent and self serving, and serving only male aristocrats (even then, a select few) to take little real accountability.

[catofoldstones]

having lots of feelings about jon being known as lord snow/lord commander and sansa being known as a lady and now having to walk in bastard's shoes in their later arcs..opposite parallels are really there its so neat i'd wish i'd have more to say on it but its just an observation

wishing that the shed identities of each stark kid will be resolved by at least winds but while i have concrete ideas on how characters like arya,sansa or bran will resolve their identity issues even if bran is a bit more vague than jon, Jon is still a semi wild card, i don't believe he'll go full targaryen or whatever that suggests to fans but he does have a lot of arcs featuring identity issues from bastard/snow to wanting to be a stark by name to the widlings/warging in ghost constantly to lord commander of the night's watch and all of that almost and does get him killed by ADWD so i am curious on his next "transformation" but i do think it will feature a more "no bullshit" type of jon, the targ reveal will make it more complex but it'll always repeat on the crisis of being a stark, how it'll affect him personally and his family whether bastard or not and fans over emphasizing that jon will suddenly have targaryen loyalty is a bit far fetched considering how late the reveal is in his own personal story

They really started as lady and bastard only to end up bastard and lord by adwd, huh. There much more on the inside like Sansa was married off to a Lannister when Jon was pretending to be a deserter of the NW. Before that, little bird and crow. And now they're going to come home along with the other Starklings, finally ending the parallel cycle, oh my 🥺

I agree with you fully. Jon "let them say Ned Stark fathered four sons not three" Snow is not going to easily accept anyone else as his father lol. That boy has always wanted to be a Stark, there is no catharsis in him becoming a Targ and fully accepting it. He has been raised on the stories of how Lyanna was abducted by Rhaegar and how much the Starks suffered because of the last Targaryen monarchs. He is not going to accept his Targ heritage quietly or fully. If anything, we have evidences of people coming back from the dead as 'more themselves'. Take Lady Stoneheart, she is only concerned about avenging her family with her heightened sense of moral righteousness, which Catelyn already possessed and expressed. If anything, Jon is going to be more Jon, someone who has always wanted to be a Stark. You are also right in the fact that he is a wild card. We don't even know if he's going to get resurrected the same way LSH did or Beric Dondarrion did. We don't know for sure what impact warging into Ghost at his time of dying will have on him or his psyche or his personality.

Though I really like how the rest of the pov Starks will definitely shed their false identities within the coming arcs. I genuinely don't know what that means for Jon and what's on his plate next. No one could have predicted LSH either. Death tends to be sort of final...

[esther-dot]

Even if we assume that Rhaegar married Lyanna, does their marriage would be considered valid? In the show Gilly and Sam got to know about marriage through the some records. Is it possible in books too? What do you think?

Well, I can’t say that any of D&D’s decisions made sense in hindsight, and I don’t know how any evidence would be presented and sufficient enough to convince Westeros as a whole that Jon was Rhaegar’s “legitimate” child, but all that aside, this is the all-important book quote:

"Likely they were too shy to come out," Ned jested. He could feel the chill coming up the stairs, a cold breath from deep within the earth. "Kings are a rare sight in the north." Robert snorted. "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!" The king put one hand on the wall to steady himself as they descended. (AGOT, Eddard I)

That’s compelling evidence that Martin intended Jon to be a Targaryen heir (“true born" in some capacity) from the beginning of the story. Sure, Robb and Bran become kings, we'll have several kings springing up in the North, but the "hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned" is (imo) unarguably a reference to Ned hiding Jon's identity by claiming him as his bastard (Snow). And the idea conveyed is that Ned is hiding a king. (@sherlokiness has several posts about additional wordplay around this, specifically the Jon and Joffrey, bastard and prince stuff).

As the series goes on, we get additional king references for Jon, and people have argued that it's KitN foreshadowing, and maybe, maybe that's what happens, but this passage, way back in AGOT, indicates that it is Jon's bastardy (hiding under the snow) that secrets the king. Not that he will eventually be chosen as one, but that he is one by virtue of his birth.

I don’t much care either way. I’ve pointed out that Jon being a bastard and going up against a true born is a fun progression of his bastard issues as is finding out he’s a trueborn and hating it/rejecting it because of what Rhaegar and Aerys did to the Starks. Either way, it’s juicy! There are things to explore. So, I’d just remind people, this spec isn’t about any specific bloggers hopes, or relying on GoT, it exists because of Martin’s words. And even if we find it offensive or think it goes against the later worldbuilding, there are lines in the book that indicate it’s potentially what Martin was planning way back when.

Now, I don't know why on Earth D&D bothered to write tangible proof of Jon's legitimacy in s7 when they totally neglected to do anything politically in s8 that would require that? Maybe keeping their options open if they needed to prolong the series? But I find it difficult to believe there will be a specific document that would be universally recognized as evidence of his legitimacy because Rhaegar was already married and had an heir. So, even if Martin wrote in a marriage for the sake of playing with the secret prince / heir to a dynasty idea for the reader’s sake, that doesn’t mean happy acceptance in-world. I’ve said the same about Robb’s will, it matters more what the Northern Lords say, how they weigh their competing interests and the threats they’re facing, rather than the specific words Robb wrote. Also, we have Aegon and Dany, so even if R/L were married and there was proof, after two other Targs pop up and war over the throne, I can't see people being moved by that? I would think they'd be sick of Targs no matter how sure people were about Jon’s identity.

Although, I could see the Northerners believing Jon is Rhaegar's son because a) they all already know Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and b) it doesn't really make sense for Ned to have fathered a bastard, so once Bran breaks it to Jon and/or Howland confirms it, I think they'll accept it because it would feel possible? Feel true? And obviously, we would know it’s true. So if this is about the Northen tangle, we don't need much. Actually, I just realized some people might spread it to try to undermine Jon/the Starks. 👀

I often just see these things as having a lot of potential paths and not knowing which direction is more appealing to Martin. He likes "the human heart in conflict with itself" so Jon being offered his dearest wish (being a legitimate son of Ned Stark) only for that to be absolute hell because he's falling in love with the man's daughter, well, that might be fun for him to write. But then comes R+L=J, and if he wants to be with Sansa, Jon needs that information to come out. If he's rejected Winterfell when Stannis offered it, rejected Winterfell even though Robb wanted him to take it, if he then can press his (Targ) legitimacy without displacing a beloved family member and in doing so, it might allow him to be with Sansa? That’s an angle. Or if he is KitN, he’d be highly motivated to keep that a secret for the sake of stability in the North, regardless of his feelings….I really can’t say. And I don’t remember anything in Sam’s chapters that made me think he’d find a diary, although the fact that Jon is forcing him to do something he doesn’t want to do makes the idea that he finds something and runs, potentially screwing Jon over kinda interesting. Actually, it’s always been a favored idea that he plays a hand in Jon rising to another position of power because of his part in getting Jon to be Lord Commander, so there is that! I guess I need to reread AFFC the whole series with a list of my new questions. 😅

[atopvisenyashill]

You said that you don’t like Jonerys, but do you see it happening in the books? Do you see them actually falling in love?

there is nothing about their personalities that has ever lead me to believe they’d be capable of tolerating each other for more than 10 minutes before a slap fight started. nor do i think jon will be amenable to making any more alliances with targaryens after aegon vi dies, especially with the North in such peril due to the others. that + sansa’s distrust of The Great Game & the people who play it + arya spending half her storyline in a city that hated valyria & it’s legacy of slavery + bran telling br he can take his borg hivemind and shove it all leads me to believe that the starks are gonna be petty at best & actively hostile to the iron throne at worst by the time dany lands.

and by the time dany lands…we’ll have the burning in vaes dothrak, which is likely to be a huge moral turning point for her bc as george said, her being unburnt was a once in a lifetime magic event. she’s likely ordering drogon to burn the khals which is so much different - and more villainous! - than just lighting a torch & watching the place go up in flame. we’ll have “to go west you must go east” which is going to involve her sacking a city with the dothraki. we’ll have the battle of fire in meereen & a team up with a greyjoy which just spells disaster. then she lands in westeros with an army made up of dothraki screamers, unsullied slaves, and headed by jorah fucking mormont and a greyjoy. i’m not even sure when she has the time to meet jon let alone get dicked down by him!

(part of my “snowspear is real” trutherism is that i think dany in the show was given like half of aegon vi’s plot. considering arianne is going to meet them at storm’s end, which is a hop, skip, and jump away from dragonstone, it makes way more sense to me that the main targ the starklings would be dealing with is aegon. i also think that jon finding out he’s lyanna & rhaegar’s as he’s dealing with rhaegar’s trueborn son & has completely thrown his lot in with the north is gonna hit way more emotionally than jon finding out he fucked his aunt. george does a lot with romance, this is true, but the main relationships in this series? they’re siblings! they’re parents & children! cersei & robert are haunted by the ghost of lyanna but lyanna has always been a stand in for robert’s love for NED. cat & ned’s relationship is doomed before it even starts by LYANNA and JON, not by a former lover! all three lannister kids wonder how their lives would have turned out if their mother had lived!! it’s about ~these ties that bind us~ it’s about the human heart in conflict with itself! i just don’t see how you pass up two unknown half brothers meeting & clashing & then finding out they’re related in favor of…a very predictable, very boring romance between your fire & ice coded mains).

tldr i still generally feel no bc i’ve never thought they’d get along very well, plus there’s no time, but i’m pretty ready to eat my words on that one and cringe my way through a sex scene between them.

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

JON SNOW DAY 7: FOILS AND ADVERSARIES ⚔️🦹‍♂️ JON SNOW - YOUNG GRIFF

On ADWD, we find out during Tyrion’s pov chapters that the long dead prince Aegon Targaryen (son of Rhaegar) has supposedly survived the sack of Kings Landing - which caused his mother and sister’s lives- and is secretly living in Essos all these years. It could make an interesting Anastasia-vibes story if Aegon was who he says he was, however introduced so late in the story, the boy is probably a fraud - even if he has no clue about it. This meta is treating the theory of Aegon not being the actual child of Rhaegar and Elia as canon and similarly considers Jon being Rhaegar and Lyanna’s actual secret child.

So we have one prince who isn’t who he claims and believes to be and another one who doesn’t even know he’s a Targaryen. It’s quite the symmetry with both boys around the same age ignoring the truth so far.

Let’s start comparing them from their appearance. I find it ironic - and also fitting- that Martin made the “fake” Targaryen having the family’s traditional looks with silver hair and purple eyes. Meanwhile, the boy who is actually a Targaryen is favoring his mother’s Stark look:

"Your father's lands are beautiful," he said. His silvery hair was blowing in the wind, and his eyes were a deep purple, darker than this boy's.  

ADWD - THE GRIFFIN REBORN

The boy absorbed that all in silence. He had the Stark face if not the name: long, solemn, guarded, a face that gave nothing away.  

AGOT, TYRION II

Aegon has lived a sheltered life with the adults surrounding him, pampering him. That has lead him to remain immature as a teenage boy (which isn't a bad thing itself, just doesn't make him the ideal leader)

"There is a gift for the boy in one of the chests. Some candled ginger. He was always fond of it"

ADWD, TYRION III

The lad did not seemed pleased. The perfect prince but still half a boy for all that, with little and less experience of the world and all its woes.

ADWD, TYRION VI

Meanwhile, Jon grew up aware of his bastard status. Compared to his siblings, he was less privileged and less pampered. All the experiences of his life, both as a neglected kid and as a teen black brother  made him observant of others and also mature for his age:

"I will turn fifteen on my next name day, and Maester Luwin says that bastards grow up faster than other children".

AGOT, JON I

They know nothing, Ygritte. And worse, they will not learn.

ADWD, JON XIII

Aegon grew up thinking that he was the rightful heir of the Seven Kingdom. Naturally, this has led him to feel entitled of things he hasn’t earned himself. For example; he believes that his aunt, Daenerys, will be willing to marry him and offer him her large army only because he’s her nephew:

It does make for a splendid story, and the singers will make much of your escape once you take the Iron Throne … assuming that our fair Daenerys takes you for her consort.“

"She will. She must.”

“Must?” Tyrion made a tsking sound. “That is not a word queens like to hear. You are her perfect prince, agreed, bright and bold and comely as any maid could wish. Daenerys Targaryen is no maid, however. She is the widow of a Dothraki khal, a mother of dragons and sacker of cities, Aegon the Conqueror with teats. She may not prove as willing as you wish.”

“She’ll be willing.” Prince Aegon sounded shocked. It was plain that he had never before considered the possibility that his bride-to-be might refuse him. “You don’t know her.”

ADWD, TYRION VI

On the above passage, Aegon was so certain that Daenerys would be willing to become his bride that even the possibility of her refusing him shocked him.

Compare that to Jon, who his whole life was entitled to nothing. He was aware that unlike his siblings he wouldn’t be handled things because of the family name - something he didn’t have- and that instead he would have to work his way to earn his place in the world:

“I want to serve in the Night's Watch, Uncle."

He had thought on it long and hard, lying abed at night while his brothers slept around him. Robb would someday inherit Winterfell, would command great armies as the Warden of the North. Bran and Rickon would be Robb's bannermen and rule holdfasts in his name. His sisters Arya and Sansa would marry the heirs of other great houses and go south as mistress of castles of their own. But what place could a bastard hope to earn?  

AGOT, JON I

When Jon went to the Wall, nothing was handled freely to him. Jeor Mormont only paid attention to him after he became the unofficial swords teacher for his fellow new recruits and after he persuaded Maester Aemon to include Sam among those who would be promoted to Black Brothers. It was his own skills and accomplishments that made him Commander’s steward and it was his brave fight against the wight that earned him Mormont’s sword.

He doesn’t expect people to freely give him things, he understands that every gift comes with a price. Just like when Stannis told him that he would make him Lord of Winterfell, but only if he converted to the Red God.

On ADWD, Varys gives a speech  on why Aegon is the ideal leader:

“No.” The eunuch’s voice seemed deeper. “He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them.”

This impressive list of traits that Aegon has aquired in order to rule one day, is missing the most important one: actual personal experience. Aegon might have been working and interacting with the common folk but he was always sheltered and was surrounded by adults loyal to him and his case. It’s not the same to do some kind of work because you want to learn the experience with doing something for living. He doesn’t really know what is like to be hungry- even if Varys tells us otherwise- because his caretakers would never let him actually be starving. When Aegon was afraid, he was always surrounded by people loyal to him  who could offer  him reassurance or simply their sympathy.  Finally, he doesn’t have any experience in ruling. Many people speculate that Varys and Illyrio are shaping him to become their puppet king but even if that isn’t the case fact remains that Aegon never ruled anywhere.

Unlike him, his supposed half brother had a little guidance when he became Lord Commander.  Maester Aemon, his best advisor, left the Wall not long after Jon was elected as the new Lord Commander. Jon had to navigate ruleship on his own without the help of a wiser adult. Unlike Aegon, Jon had the experience of truly serving before he was in a position of power - as he was a steward and later on he lived among free folk. He was also experienced in being truly afraid and terrified even when people who can comfort you are miles away and you are all alone.

We don’t know whether Aegon will put his people first because he has yet to rule. But we do know that Jon constantly prioritizes humanity’s well being. That’s why he made dealing with the Others his number one priority and that’s also the reason why he let the free folk on the south side of the Wall.

While Aegon is another candidate fighting for the Iron Throne because he feels entitled to it, Jon is fighting against the Others to save humanity.  

Bonus! their views on women.

Aegon’s:

"That's so," the boy said, "and who is there left in Westeros to oppose us? A woman."  

ADWD, THE LOST LORD

Jon’s

The women are the strong ones.

ADWD, JON III

[forestcat000]

Sooooo

This was a comment in response to me wanting an excuse to ramble about my Targaryen's survive AU so thank you @celerieth for this opportunity and thank you for the follow (:

Btw I am sorry to everyone who only follows me for aphmau content because I keep posting game of thrones stuff.

Warning, long post

So I've mentioned my AU and it's concept on my blogs before. The premise is basically all the Targaryen's survive the rebellion and kill the Baratheons, Starks, Arryns, and Tullys for their treason. Aerys remains king but I kinda stall his madness for the sake of story telling so Jaime does not kill him.

My fic starts at the same time as the Canon books except it basically only (so far) takes place in kingslanding. All the Targ kids (Aegon, Rhaenys, Daenerys, Viserys, Jon) get their own chapters, Rhaella and Elia, get them as well. Rhaegar is the only one so far without a chapter in progress.

The story mainly follows the more domestic drama and relationships between the characters so far, with everyone having to endure Aerys. But I do add in a lot of fluff for the Targ kids so it can be sweet.

Aegon is the picture perfect prince, smart, funny, kind, good looking but he has a few problems. Aegon has some pent up hatred towards Rhaegar for abandoning the family during the rebellion, this results in Aegon being more critical and distrustful of Rhaegar, viewing Rhaegar as mad for chasing a prophecy. This extra tension since Aegon is the child who Rhaegar views as the prince who was promised and thus pays extra unwanted attention to Aegon. Aegon is very close with his siblings, and mother, feeling extremely protective of them.

Rhaenys is an intelligent, witty, charming girl. Rhaenys shares Aegons feelings towards Rhaegar for the rebellion but she's much calmer and more lenient with Rhaegar, mainly because she doesn't talk to him often, he's distant and often in his head so neither cares enough to reach out. Rhaenys is loving towards her family and often tries to keep them in line, especially Daenerys. She has a slight rivalry with Daenerys but it's largely loving. She is the only one of her siblings in a relationship, she is secretly courting Willas Tyrell, heir to Highgarden.

Viserys is much nicer and calmer than in Canon since he never had to go through the trauma of being on the run and having his family die. Viserys is a loving older brother and uncle. He's a mama's boy, he tries his best to support his mother while she deals with the abuse at Aerys hand. He has a slightly odd relationship with Aerys. Aerys spared Viserys a lot of the abuse that the other family members suffered because Viserys is his favorite son, while he was saved from the physical and mental abuse he developed a guilt of sorts, feeling guilty that while his family is hurt he is safe. This guilt causes Viserys to be a bit protective and he tries to remove his family members from the area when Aerys get violent and loud.

Daenerys is reckless and chaotic but loving. She has a complicated relationship with her father. Aerys goes from doting on his daughter in every way to yelling and screaming at her at an instant, as a result Daenerys tends to avoid being around her father unless necessary. She's extremely close to Viserys with him being her safe person, kinda seeing him as a father or a caretaker more than a brother.

All the family members that have POVs are the main characters but Jon (Aemon in my rewrite) has the biggest one planned out. Jon is the last known member of the Stark family since he's Lyannas son. Jon is raised as something similar to a prisoner, being a symbol of the war and all the people the Targaryens demolished. Jon is antagonized by Aerys frequently to the point Jon loses sleep every night over the possibility of being murdered and having dreams of being burned alive by Aerys. He feels something similar to survivors guilt, believing he didn't deserve to live, and viewing his birth as the cause of the rebellion (will alaborate if needed)and as a result the cause of death of everyone who died in the rebellion, including all the Starks and his mother. Jon is extremely paranoid and fearful. Hes so paranoid that he went mute because he was scared of saying the wrong thing and being killed, his fear is intense that he can't talk if he tried, he created a mental block to stop him. he is rarely away from Aegon who he is close to, if Aegon is in a room Jon cannot go in he'll wait by the door for Aegon to come out. Jon is close with Rhaenys as well, often going to her for comfort.

That's base info, I know there's a lot, and that's just the stuff that I'm posting, I have pages of lore I'm waiting to implement.

If anyone is interested in any of this feel free to ask questions. Also thank you Celerieth.

[sherlokiness]

been reading your Lyanna and Rhaegar posts and I very much agree with you about them having a wedding. If we assume that those Kingsguard's weren't false Kingsguards like Jaime and weren't lying about them keeping their "vow" then the most logical explanation would be that Jon is legitimate. When Aerys died, they should have gone to protect their new King Viserys yet they refused to do so. The reason for staying in the ToJ must have been because whatever they're guarding there takes higher priority than Viserys.

What do you think will be for the future of Sansa and Jon then? They will be the second Stark and Targaryen union in the current story we'll see. Since Sansa is a bastard just like Jon that means Jon isn't a bastard at all. They're made to pose as bastards by a father figure or else people would have their head. Stone and Snow. She's a Stark, he's a Targaryen.

Hi, anon! Thanks for the ask.

Great point about Sansa saying she's a bastard just like Jon. If we take that as a hint of RLJ then what she says is actually the truth. She was made a bastard exactly like Jon yet in reality they were not at all. We also have a clue to what Jon might feel once he learns of his heritage.

He is not my father. The thought leapt unbidden to Jon's mind. Lord Eddard Stark is my father. I will not forget him, no matter how many swords they give me.

They might offer him the IT(made up of many swords) and the allegiance of noble houses(my sword is yours.) He will never forget Ned and Rhaegar could just fuck off.💀💀

RLJ parallel for Jon and Sansa for me would probably them having a secret wedding. I mean, the books already teased Sansa having one with a cousin. But unlike RL, jonsa will have a public wedding too much like Jahaerys I and Alysanne. Next I would say is Sansa as the Girl in Grey. I very much believe the theory that Lyanna met Rhegar again at the Inn at the Crossroads which is where another iconic kidnapping took place- Cat seizing Tyrion. It resulted in hostilities between two major Houses where the Starks didn't know the inside story. It would have looked like a kidnapping specially if we have hostile forces against Lyanna there which were the King's men. So Sansa/Lyanna would be fleeing kidnappers only to end up with a Targaryen for safety. The elements involved would be a tourney, a crime, a wedding, and a rescue by a knight. Jon disdaining princesses in towers only to end up rescuing an actual one is peak comedy imo. 🤡🤡

As he walked toward the armory, Jon chanced to look up and saw Val standing in her tower window. I'm sorry, he thought. I'm not the man to steal you out of there.

This could be interpreted as it is or could be that Jon is not the man to steal Val because he will steal another princess later. Jon, Sansa's brother, might also give her a bastard's head - Ramsay's. She already has Janos but she doesn't know that.

After my name day feast, I'm going to raise a host and kill your brother myself. That's what I'll give you, Lady Sansa. Your brother's head."

A kind of madness took over her then, and she heard herself say, "Maybe my brother will give me your head."

Jon vs Ramsay has been foreshadowed by Ghost defending a prize from a yellow bitch three times his size. The most recent one would be Chett, a leech man's son with lordly ambitions, being defeated by "Snow and his pet pig." Lady Piggy is Jon Snow's lady love. There's only one notable guy in the story using leeches and it's Roose.

He will know me. How could he not? She considered throwing herself at his feet to beg for his protection. He never fought for Robb, why should he fight for me?

Sansa's already considered doing before what Alys did.

Alys knelt before him, clutching the black cloak. "You are my only hope, Lord Snow. In your father's name, I beg you. Protect me."

UndeadJon will know her and will fight for her. Jon has failed twice to fight for his family - Robb and Arya. He will succeed on the third one.