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yurimother · 4 years

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LGBTQ Game Review - A Summer’s End – Hong Kong 1986

Before diving into the meat of Oracle and Bone’s A Summer’s End, I want to talk about the women behind this game Tida Kietsungden, and Charissa So. So and Kietsungden have done nothing but impress me since the announcement of A Summer’s End. They have repeatedly demonstrated their immense effort and dedication to creating a beautiful and thoughtful experience. Through conversations with the studio and reading their blog entries, I gained a remarkable understanding of how this game is both a tribute to classic cinema and a love letter to the Yuri and LGBT community. Through careful research and thoughtful expression, the two women navigate and acknowledge complicated issues, including Asian LGBTQ history and Hong Kong’s delicate political situation with grace and maturity. I am in complete awe of both women and their work. However, regardless of my profound respect for these creators, I still endeavor to offer my unfiltered thoughts on the visual novel, giving praise and criticism where appropriate.

A Summer’s End – Hong Kong 1986 is a Yuri visual novel set, as you may have figured out, in Hong Kong in the year 1986. The game follows a young office worker, Michelle (Fong Ha) Cheung, who has a chance encounter with a free-spirited woman named Sam (Ka Yan) Wong. Both women feel drawn to each other, and the game explores this mutual attraction and the budding relationship which emerges from it.

This plot follows the standard girl meets girl story that has permeated the Yuri genre for the past several decades. Like most Yuri stories, the older and more experienced woman, Sam, is rebellious and beautiful, with long dark hair and a dominating persona. Michelle, although far more naive in the ways of love, breaks the trend of this trope by being the more sullen of the two. I would have liked to see the game diverge a bit more from the standard story of the genre. Fortunately, A Summer’s End is a romance story between adults who do not work together, setting it apart from the norms. It even includes a coming out section that creates a more robust LGBT identity than any tale of temporary schoolgirl love.

The story is well put together and well presented. The story is told primarily from Michelle’s perspective. It mostly takes place over a few days, during which Michelle engages in a whirlwind romance with Sam. This story features the struggle between her feelings and passion and her devotion to tradition and her mother. The progression of her affection is unrealistically fast. The story feels a bit rushed, and many of the societal and personal quagmires the game stumbles upon are not sufficiently developed or confronted. Had the game indulged in a more prolonged and tumultuous struggle for Michelle, conclusions would have felt much sweeter, and the story would have gone from good to great.

Even with this massive missed opportunity, there are plenty of exemplary moments and aspects of the narrative. The game pulls no punches addressing Michelle’s slightly overbearing mother and the conflict between the two. It would have been incredibly simple to take the easy route on this one. Still, the developers stuck to their guns and manage to explore a challenging situation satisfyingly, all while keeping the characters realistic and sympathetic. In fact, every scene relating to LGBT rights and history is flawlessly executed.

There are also some fantastic chapters, including a thrilling but refreshing bike ride and a flashback scene that recontextualizes certain events from another perspective. The many references and allusions to classic cinema including some older lesbian films and plenty of Asian works, are particularly noteworthy. However, the best part of A Summer’s End by far is the setting.

The location and time period is intrinsic to Sam and Michelle’s tale, as it is shaped by and reflects contemporary culture and LGBTQ rights. Oracle and Bone create a vibrant and lively world, a jaw-dropping depiction of Hong Kong in the 1980s. Everything helps feed into the creation of this world, including a fantastic and retro UI, small touches such as a Cantonese subway announcement, and objects encountered like a disposable camera help convey a strong sense of the period. However, the soundtrack sells it more than any other element, save perhaps the artwork, transporting the player to the era. While a few tracks are the standard easy listening affairs one expects from visual novels, there are tons of excellent city pop and disco beats, complete with plenty of synths and confidence! Finally, a visual novel soundtrack that contributes more than just background noise!

Sadly, the game’s dialogue choice system and branching paths are far more of a hindrance than a help. I can honestly say that the game would play better and be way more enjoyable as a kinetic novel. Most choices feel inconsequential, changing nothing of the story and resulting in almost the exact same response from other characters yet, they have a hidden points system. If you do not earn enough points, parts of the optional adult content will be unplayable until one goes back to find the right choice. I spent several hours replaying, and eventually skipping through, the game to unlock all the scenes, and finally gave up with one CG left unseen. The only choice with any actual effect is painfully evident in its consequences. One option leads to the bad ending, which is well written, but no reasonable player would go down that path unless they just wanted to see the whole game. The second unveils the true good ending, which no player in their right mind would not pursue, as again, the choice is obvious and adds nothing to the game. There is no reason to put in an alternative ending or tedious dialogue choice.

The characters in A Summer’s End are well constructed. Sam is adventurous without being obnoxious and has a mature though appropriately unrefined demeanor. Michelle is extremely curt and somewhat distant, although she displays a sharp wit and more timid nature on occasion. Both women participate in engaging, deep, and thoughtful discussions, often with each other, although sometimes internally, and thus feel well developed and complex. Unfortunately, their chemistry, while not absent, is not enough to sell the whirlwind romance. There is insufficient expression of their feelings and attractions, both internally or through dialogue and actions, so their inevitable closeness feels unearned.

However, even in the short game, both characters change with each other, especially Michelle, as she becomes more affectionate, confident, and caring. She begins to embody some of Sam’s warmness while never losing herself. Some of my favorite dialogue and interaction came from her towards the end of the game, although I will not spoil it. Additionally, side characters have a strong presence thanks to their firmly established characteristics and a profound effect on the narrative. Each has their own sprite and mannerisms, helping cement them as fixtures in A Summer’s End rather than tacked on assets.

The visual novel contains optional adult content, which is installed in an extra patch and can be toggled on and off. I played through the game with and without it and can happily report that the story is just as fulfilling and complete without it. Although the unlockable nature of these scenes is aggravating, they are very well written and sensual without being exploitative. There were moments I did not care for as much, such as Sam getting carried away at one point, but it felt very realistic and incredibly sensual. The artwork in these sexual encounters is some of the best in the game, embracing darker colors and showcasing intense desire.

Speaking of the artwork, it is stupendous. The game is bright and striking, with amazing backgrounds complete with luminous neon signs, glaring televisions, and life and activity oozing from every corner. The backgrounds are so beautiful and detailed they could effectively serve in place of CG art, although there is plenty of that asides. The character models and designs are similarly excellent, with expressive poses and faces. The various outfits, of which the game has many, embody iconic 80’s fashion. Artist Tida Kietsungden draws both the characters and CGs with a distinctive hand-drawn style, which allows them to play well off each other and add to the beautiful presentation. The detail and care that went into the aesthetics are enormous and elevate the game at every moment.

A Summer’s End – Hong Kong 1986 is a vibrant and intimate experience. The fantastic setting and flawless artwork surround a compelling and thoughtful story about lesbian love and desire, societal expectations, and the bonds between family and lovers. It is rough around the edges, with a slightly rushed story that leaves little time to wallow in complexity and an awful dialogue system. However, it will win players over with its striking presentation and sophisticated subject matter. I look forward to more from this studio and highly recommend you check this game out!

Ratings: Story – 7 Characters – 6 Art – 10 Music – 8 LGBTQ – 8 Sexual Content – 3 (8 with patch) Final – 7

Purchase A Summer’s End on Steam and itch.io, available April 23

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#Yuri #lgbt #lgbtq #lgbtq+#queer #gay #reivew #a summer's end #hong kong #girls love #gl #wlw #lesbian #visual novel #games #video games #gaming #manga #anime #reviews

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woman-loving · 3 years

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I’ve been reading some articles about lesbian identities in Indonesia, from the late 80s to the 00s, and wanted to share some quotes that highlighted a couple trends that I’ve also noticed in reading about butch/femme communities in other countries.

1) There are different expectations about sexual distinctiveness and marriage to men are attached to butch and femme identities. There is a greater expectation that femmes will marry men, and femmes more often do marry men, though some butches do as well. Marriages to men seem to be for convenience or in name only, and women may continue to have female lovers.

2) Distinctions are made between real/pure/positive lesbians (butches) and other lesbians (femmes) who are “potentially normal.” This shows the flexibility of lesbian identity, where they can be gradations and contradictions in what it means to be a lesbian (e.g. a woman being a lesbian but not a “real lesbian"). The category has cores and peripheries, rather than everyone being equally lesbian or else completely outside of it.

3) There are disagreements between members, which cross butch/femme lines, about the meanings of these identities and whose lesbianism or community involvement should be taken seriously. The first passage describes femmes as engaging in a “more active appropriation of lesbianism as a core element of their subjectivity.” The boundaries of lesbianism can potentially expand or contract as people struggle to define it.

4) People don’t always meet the community expectations attached to their identity.

I think these passages help complicate the picture of what lesbian identities can look like, and some of these same tensions and debates are common features of lesbian identity in many different cultures. I also think these issues--the (differential) weight given to relationships with men, the notion of positive versus negative lesbians, and the active appropriation of lesbianism by peripheral members--are relevant to bisexual interest, since these questions also shape bi women’s engagement in lesbianism/lesbian communities. (And we can say that without claiming that any particular women in these narratives are “really bisexual.”)

Anyway, without further ado... (this first one picks up right in the middle of a passage because I couldn’t get the previous page on the google preview :T)

From “Desiring Bodies or Defiant Cultures: Butch-Femme Lesbians in Jakarta and Lima,” by Saskia E. Wieringa, in Female Desires: Same-Sex Relations and Transgender Practices Across Cultures, eds. Evelyn Blackwood and Saskia E. Wieringa, 1999:

“[...]negative lesbians. We are positive lesbians. We are pure, 100% lesbian. With them you can never know. Before you know it, they are seeing a man again, and we are given the good-bye.”

Father Abraham, who had entered during her last words, took over. “Let me explain. … Take Koes. Again and again her girlfriends leave her. Soon she’ll be old and lonely. Who will help her then? For these girls it is just an adventure, while for butches like Koes it is their whole life.”“Yes, well, Abraham, … my experience is limited, of course, but it seems to me that the femmes flee the same problems that make life so hard for the butches. So they’d rather support each other.”

“In any case,” Sigit added, ‘they have become active now, that’s why they’re here, isn’t that so?” And she looked questioningly at the three dolls behind the typing machine, Roekmi and my neighbour. The most brazen femme had been nodding in a mocking manner while Sigit and I were talking.

“So we’re only supposed to be wives? We’re not suited for something serious, are we? Maybe we should set up a wives’ organization, Dharma Wanita,[23] the Dharma Wanita PERLESIN? Just like all those other organizations of the wives of civil servants and lawyers?” …

��Come on, Ari,” Sigit insisted, “why don’t you just ask them? You could at least ask them whether they want to join?” Ari found it extremely hard. Helplessly she looked at the other butches.

“Do you really mean that i should ask whether our wives would like to join / our / organization?” One of the butches nodded.

“Ok, fine.” She directed herself to the dolls.

“Well, what do you want? Do you want to join us? But in that case you shouldn’t just say yes, then you should also be involved with your whole heart.”

“You never asked that of the others,” the brazen femme pointed out, “but yes, I will definitely dedicate myself to the organization.” Roekmi and the two femmes at her side also nodded. (Wieringa 1987:89-91)

The above example is indicative of the social marginalization of the b/f community. it also captures in it one of its moments of transformation. The defiance of the femmes of the code that prescribes the division of butches and femmes into “positive” and “negative” lesbians respectively indicates a more active appropriation of lesbianism as a core element of their subjectivity. At the same time it illustrates the hegemony of the dominant heterosexual culture with its gendered principles of organization.

Yet, however much the butches conformed to male gender behavior they didn’t define themselves as male; their relation to their bodies was rather ambiguous. at times they defined themselves as a third sex, which is nonfemale[…]. [...] [Butches’] call for organization was not linked to a feminist protest against rigid gender norms. Rather they felt that nature had played a trick on them and they they had to devise ways to confront the dangers to which this situation gave rise. Jakarta’s b/f lesbians when I met them in the early eighties were not in the least interested in feminism. In fact, the butches among them were more concerned with the case of a friend of them who was undergoing a sex change operation. They clearly considered it an option, but none of them decided to follow this example. When I asked them why, all of them mentioned the health risks involved and the costs. None of them stated that they rather preferred their own bodies. Their bodies, although the source of sexual pleasure and as such the object of constant attention, didn’t make it any too easy for them to get the satisfaction they sought or, at least, to attract the partners they desired.

From "Let Them Take Ecstasy: Class and Jakarta Lesbians," by Alison J. Murray, in Female Desires: Same-Sex Relations and Transgender Practices Across Cultures, eds. Evelyn Blackwood and Saskia E. Wieringa, 1999:

Covert lesbian activities are thus an adaptation to the ideological context, where the distinction between hidden and exposed sexual behavior allows for fluidity in sexual relations (“everyone could be said to be bisexual” according to Oetomo 1995) as long as the primary presentation is heterosexual/monogamous. It is not lesbian activity that has been imported from the West, but the word lesbi used to label the Western concept of individual identity based on a fixed sexuality. I have not found that Indonesian women like to use the label to describe themselves, since it is connected to unpleasant stereotypes and the pathological view of deviance derived from Freudian psychology (cf Foucault 1978).

The concept of butch-femme also has a different meaning in Indonesia from the current Western use which implies a subversion of norms and playful use of roles and styles (cf Nestle 1992). In Indonesia (and other parts of Southeast Asia, such as the Philippines, Thailand’s tom-and-dee: Chetame 1995) the roles are quite strictly, or restrictively, defined and are related to popular, pseudo-psychological explanations of the “real” lesbian. In the simple terms of popular magazines, the butch (sentul) is more than 50% lesbian, or incurably lesbi, while the femme (kantil) is less than 50% lesbian, or potentially normal. Blackwood’s (1994) description of her secretive relationship with a butch-identified woman in Sumatra brings up some cross-cultural differences and difficulties that they experienced and could not speak about publicly. The Sumatran woman adopted masculine signifies and would not be touched sexually herself; she wanted to be called “pa” by Blackwood, who she expected to behave as a “good wife.” Meanwhile, Blackwood’s own beliefs, as well as her higher status due to class and ethnicity, made it hard to take on the passive female role.

I want to emphasize here that behavior needs to be conceptually separated from identity, as both are contextually specific and constrained by opportunity. It is common for young women socialized into a rigid heterosexual regime, in Asia or the West, to experience their sexual feelings in terms of gender confusion: “If I am attracted to women, then I must be a man trapped in a woman’s body.” Women are not socialized to seek out a sexual partner (of any kind), or to be sexual at all, so an internal “feeling” may never be expressed unless there are role models or opportunities available. If the butch-femme stereotype, as presented in the Indonesian popular media, is the only image of lesbians available outside the metropolis (e.g., in Sumatra), then this may affect how women express their feelings. However, urban lower-class lesbians engage in a range of styles and practices: some use butch style consciously to earn peer respect, while others reject the butch as out-dated. The stereotype of all lower-class lesbians whether following butch-femme roles or conforming to one subcultural pattern is far from the case and reflects the media and elite’s lack of real knowledge about street life. […]

The imagery of sickness creates powerful stigmatization and internalized homophobia: women may refer to themselves as sakit (sick). An ex-lover of mine in Jakarta is quite happy to state a preference for women while at the same time expressing disgust at the word lesbi and at the sight of a butch dyke; however, I have generally found that the stigma around lesbian labels and symbols is not translated into discrimination against individuals based on their sexual activities. I have been surprised to discover how many women in Jakarta will either admit to having sex with women or to being interested in it, but again, this is only rarely accompanied by an open lesbian (or bisexual) identity. I have found it hard to avoid the word “lesbian” to refer to female-to-female sexual relations, but it should not be taken to imply a permanent self-identity. It is very important to try and understand the social contexts of behavior, in order to avoid drawing conclusions based on inappropriate Western notions of lesbian identity, community, or “queer” culture.

From “Beyond the ‘Closet’: The Voices of Lesbian Women in Yogyakarta,” by Tracy L Wright Webster, 2004:

Most importantly a supportive community group of lesbian, bisexual and transgender women is essential, given that these sexualities are thrust together in Sektor 15. Potentially, a group comprised of women from each of these categories, that is lesbian, bisexual or transgender, may prove problematic to say the least, given that the needs and issues of each group are different. Clearly the informal communities already in existence in Yogya are indicators of this. Any formal or organized groupings would certainly benefit by modeling on current, though informal organisations. In the lesbian network, transgendered women (those who wish to become men or who consider themselves male) are not affiliated, however many ‘femme’ identified women who have been and intend to be involved in heterosexual relationships in the future, are among the group in partnership with their ‘butch’ pacar (Indo: girlfriend/boyfiend/lover).

Organisations of women questioning sexuality have existed in Yogya in the past. A butch identified respondent said she was involved in the formation of a lesbian, bisexual and transgender network in collaboration with another Indonesian woman, who also identified as butch, 20 years her senior. The group was called Opo (Javanese:what) or Opo We (Jav:whatever), the name highlighting that any issue could be discussed or entered into within the group. Members were an amalgam of both of the women’s friends and acquaintances. The underlying philosophy of the group was that “regardless of a woman’s life experience, marriage, children…it is her basic human right to live as a lesbian if she has the sexual inclination”. The elder founding member of this group, now 46, married a man and had a child. She now lives with her husband (in name only), child and female partner in the same home. Although this arrangement according to the interviewee “is rare… because the husband is there, she is spared the questions from the neighbours”. Here I must add that it is common in Java for lesbians to marry to fulfill their social role as mothers, and then to separate from their husbands to live their lives in partnership with a woman. This trend however is more common among the ‘femme’ group.

From "(Re)articulations: gender and same-sex subjectivities in Yogyakarta, Indonesia," by Tracy Wright Webster, in Intersections: Gender and Sexuality in Asia and the Pacific, Issue 18, Oct 2008:

Lesbi subjectivities Since gender, for the most part, determines sexuality in Java, sexuality and gender cannot be analysed as discrete categories.[64] For all of the self-identified butchi participants, lesbi was the term used to describe their sexuality. This is contrary to the findings of two key researchers of female same-sex sexuality in Indonesia. Alison Murray's research in Jakarta in the 1980s suggests that females of same-sex attraction did not like the term 'lesbian'[65] due to its connection with 'unpleasant stereotypes' and deviant pathologies.[66] In 1995, Gayatri found that media representations depicting lesbi as males trapped in female bodies encouraged same-sex attracted women to seek new, contemporary descriptors.[67] The participants in this research, however, embraced the term lesbi as an all-encompassing descriptor of female same-sex attraction and as Boellstorff has noted in 2000, Indonesian lesbi tend to see themselves as part of a wider international lesbian network.[68]

The term lesbi has been used in Indonesia since the 1980s, although not commonly or consistently. Lines, les, lesbian, lesbo, lesbong and L, among others, are also used. Female same-sex/lesbi subjectivities in Yogya are not strongly associated with political motivations and the subversion of heteropatriarchy as they were among the Western lesbian feminists of the 1960s. By the time most of the participants in this research were born, the term lesbi had already become infused in Indonesian discourses of sexuality among the urban elite (though with negative connotations in most cases), and has since become commonly used both by females of same-sex attraction to describe themselves, and by others. Most learnt from peers at school and through reading Indonesian magazines.

However, public use of the term lesbi and expression of lesbi subjectivity has its risks. Murray's research on middle to upper class lesbians suggests that females identifying as lesbi have more to lose than lower class lesbi in terms of social position and the power invested in that class positioning. This is particularly in relation to their position in the family.[69] Conversely, her work also shows that lower class lesbi 'have the freedom to play without closing off their options.'[70] As Aji suggests, young females, particularly of the priyayi class may not be in a position to resist the social stigma attached to lesbianism and the possible consequences of rejection or abuse. Yusi faced this reality despite the fact that s/he had not declared herself lesbi. Hir gendered subjectivity meant that s/he did not conform to stereotypical feminine ideals and desires.

With so much at stake, many lesbi remain invisible. Heteronormative and feminine gendered expectations for females in part explain why lesbians may indeed be the 'least known population group in Indonesia.'[71] Collusion in invisibility can be seen here as a protective strategy. The lesbi community or keluarga (family) is what Murray refers to as a 'strategic community' of the lesbian subculture.[72] The strategic nature of the community lies in its sense of protection: the community provides a safe haven for disclosure. Invisibility, however, also arises through the factors I mentioned earlier: the normative feminine representations of femme, their tendency to express lesbi subjectivity only while in partnership with a butchi, and their tendency to marry. Invisibility, as a form of discretion, however, may also be chosen.

Gender complementary butchi/femme subjectivities [...] Due to the apparently fixed nature of butchi identities and subjectivities and their reluctance to sleep with males, they are seen as 'true lesbians,'[79] lesbian sejati, an image perpetuated through the media.[80] Similar to the butchi/femme communities in Jakarta, in Yogya, butchi are identified by their strict codes of dress and behaviour which include short hair, sometimes slicked back with gel, collared button up shirts and trousers bought in menswear stores, large-faced watches and bold rings. Butchi characteristically walk with a swagger and smoke in public places. In her research in the 1980s, Wieringa noticed that within lesbi communities in Jakarta the strict 'surveillance and socialisation 'may have contributed to the fixed nature of butchi identities.[81] In Yogya, this is particularly evident in the socialisation of younger lesbi by senior lesbi (a theme I explore elsewhere in my current research).

The participants held individual perspectives on butchness. Aji's butchness is premised on hir masculine gender subjectivity and desire for a partner of complementary gender. Yusi expresses hir butchness differently and relates it to dominance in the relationship and in sex play. The participants who told of the sexual roles within the relationship emphasised their active butchi roles during sex. As Wieringa suggests, this does not necessarily imply femme passivity as femme 'stress their erotic power over their butches.'[82] It does, however, indicate one way in which the butchi I interviewed articulate their sexual agency.

Femme subjectivities, on the other hand, are generally conceived of as transient. As many of the interviews illustrate, femme are expected by their butchi partners to marry and have children: butchi see them as bisexual. In public, and indeed if they marry, they are seen as heterosexual, though their heterosexual practice may not be exclusive. In the 1980s, Wieringa observed that femme 'dressed in an exaggerated fashion, in dresses with ribbons and frills...always wore make up and high heels.'[83] In the new millennium, the femme I met were also fashion savvy though not in an exaggerated sense. Generally they wore hip-hugging, breast-accentuating tight gear, had long hair and wore lipstick and low-heeled pumps. Their feminine representations were stereotypical: it was through association with butchi with in the lesbi community that femme subjectivities become visible.

#what is a lesbian #butch femme #indonesia #lgbtq #wlw #lgbtq history

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donutloverxo · 4 years

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Two is better than one

Note- Also my contribution to our weekly challenge based on the moodboard above.

Please do not steal or repost my works. Reblogs are welcome.

Summary- All this shit just because you wanted some of that russian pussy or/ how you navigate a relationship with your new girlfriend and your fiancé.

Warnings- smut, mff threesome, over stimulation, dom/sub dynamics, poly relationship, no romanrogers, angst

Pairing- Steve Rogers x reader x Natasha Romanov, Steve Rogers x reader

Word count-6.5k

Masterlist

You had been hanging out with your fiancé’s friends at a bar. It was sort of a post-mission party, a way for everyone to relax and wind down. Steve Sam and Tony had just gotten back from a three week long mission. You had missed Steve terribly. Even though you talked daily it was still hard to not have him be there for you when you got back from work. Steve being the overprotective, sweet, perfect boyfriend that he is asked Nat to look after you while he was gone.

Normally you would've been mad. You’re a grown woman who can take care of herself. You didn’t need a bodyguard or caretaker. But it all worked out amazingly as you got to spend more time with Nat and somehow ended up becoming even better friends. You didn’t even notice when the three weeks were up.

“I bet I’m a better kisser than you” Nat cheekily smiling at Steve.

Everyone else had went home or to another bar. Right now it was just you and Nat in front of Steve in a booth. Somehow you had started talking about his ‘golden boy’ persona and his old school values.

“Yeah?” He returned her smile draping his arm over the back of his seat “I’m willing to bet you’re not”

“There’s only one way to find out” She giggled turning her head to her right to look at you biting her lower lip. You both had had one too many tequila shots.

“It’s only fair. She has already kissed you” You said to Steve referring to the time Nat had kissed him so they wouldn’t blow their cover. He was so sweet fessing up to you as soon as he got back, expecting you to be mad.

Before he could say anything Nat grabbed your chin crashing her lips onto yours. She felt warm and soft. You pressed your fingertips against the curve of her cheekbones. Her lips were just as plump as Steve’s albeit a bit smaller. She slipped her tongue into your mouth as you sighed into the kiss. She pulled away as you both tried to catch your breaths.

You were all silent for a while, Steve staring at the both of you, his lips pressed in a firm line. You couldn’t read his expression, which was strange. Usually you could easily tell what was going on in his mind. You knew how much men were obsessed with lesbians or girl-on-girl things but Steve wasn’t that kind of guy. “So?” he asked you.

“Who’s the better kisser?” Nat gave you a cocky smirk as she assumed she had already won.

“You’re both good...” You paused thinking about the right words to choose “in your own way”

“She’s just trying to spare your feelings Rogers” Nat scoffed.

“She obviously likes me better”

You changed the subject before the situation could escalate anymore. You had to resist the urge to ask Steve who was a better kisser between you and Nat. But you knew he would choose you. Nat sure had left you wanting more. You wished you could pull her in for another breathtaking kiss. You avoided looking at her for the rest of the night so you wouldn’t be tempted.

“Look at that ass” You giggled hanging off of Steve’s shoulder. You were too drunk to walk or to even comprehend what was going on around you. You felt so giddy and high as if you were weightless and on cloud nine. “Such a bubble butt” you tried to give it a nice smack but couldn’t from the awkward angle.

“Bubble butt?” He repeated and chuckled “it’s all yours baby” He said fondly. He punched in the code for your apartment heading straight for the bedroom and gently placing you on the bed.

He kissed your forehead to which you giggled some more. You plopped down on the bed staring at the ceiling which seemed to be spinning at the moment. He returned with your makeup wipes taking your make-up off your face. He always said you didn’t need it but helped you out whenever you wanted to try a new eye shadow. He did work well with colors and brushes.

“Ooh my head hurts” You scrunched your nose at the artificial lemony smell from the wipes.

He opened his mouth as if to say ‘I told you so' but then knew better and closed it running another clean wipe across your face he was done. “All done. You wanna slip into something comfortable?” He asked looking at your tight dress which pushed your breasts up together, giving you a much more prominent cleavage.

He threw the used wipes in the dustbin in your bathroom. You looked at him as he went about his nightly routine. Brushing his teeth washing his face. You reached back struggling to unzip your dress after some attempts you get a hold of the zip pulling it down. The straps fall off of your shoulders as you got rid of your strapless bra kneeling on your bed in just your panties. You started to fondle your breasts to entice Steve, give him a nice show. It had been weeks since you made love. You had to make do with your pink vibrator which wasn’t half as good as the real thing.

His jaw dropped as he looked at you squeezing your breasts together, gasping as you pinched your nipples. “Wanna fuck me daddy?” You moaned slipping your fingers in your panties to play with your clit. Before you could even reach it his hand stopped you holding onto your wrist.

“I don’t think so” He said holding your gaze “I’m not fucking you when you’re this drunk. It’s time for bed come on” he pulled your hand out of your panties and handed you his t-shirt which you often used as a sleep shirt.

“I can do it myself then” You huffed laying down on your side of the bed slipping your fingers between your thighs lightly grazing over your clit. You couldn’t concentrate not with Steve staring at you with his intense blue eyes. You whined pathetically pulling your hand out of your panties and giving up. You’ll get that dick soon enough, you were too tired anyway.

You didn’t need to look him to know he was smirking. You closed your eyes trying hard to sleep. If you aren’t hung over in the morning, which you probably will be, you can sneak in some morning loving from Steve before he goes to work. You felt the heat of his thumb on your hipbone, lingering there for a few seconds before he pulled your panties down. He knew you never liked to sleep with your underwear on.

“You wanna put on the shirt?” He asked to which you whined shaking your head. The silk sheets felt smooth and nicer against your naked skin. He covered you with the comforter switching off the lights, he pulled you into him, draping his arm across your stomach.

After a few minutes you opened your eyes and looked at him to see if he was asleep. You couldn’t really tell in the dark. You softly called out his name to which he gave no answer. “Would you hate me if I loved women like I love you?” you whispered in the dead of the night so lowly you weren’t even sure if you actually said it.

You felt tears streaming down your cheeks. Something you had hid from him since you started dating. You weren’t even sure why. You told yourself it didn’t really matter. You were never going to look at anyone else or think about anyone like that. You had committed your heart to him when you agreed to marry him. You heart now belonged to him.

“I could never hate you sweetheart” He admitted pressing a kiss to your forehead drying your tears off of your cheeks.

Of course he wouldn’t. You were so stupid to think something like this could ever change his feelings for you. Especially since he showed you everyday in so many ways just how much he loved and adored you. You hugged him nuzzling his neck.

“Do you – “ He paused clearing his throat “do you love Nat like that?” He asked speaking into your hair.

“Honestly? I don’t know. I mean I am sort of attracted to her and love her as a friend...” You trailed off.

You always had amazing chemistry with Nat. Well not always. She was kind of standoffish in the beginning. Almost mean to you when she gave you the shovel talk about not hurting Steve or else. Although you understood where she was coming from you decided it would be best to avoid her.

A simple florist like you didn’t have much in common with someone like Nat anyway. But then as you spent more time together you got to know her. A side of her she didn’t show to everyone. Now she was one of the most caring and kind person you know. A stark contrast to her first impression. You would go as far as to say she was your best friend. You did sometimes stared a bit too long at her for it to be considered proper. She was beautiful and graceful in everything she did, almost like a ballerina. But you never thought about those feelings or even let yourself think of her in anyway other than platonically. You would never do that to Steve.

“But I love you. I’ll never let anything come between us” You continued looking up at look at his face.

He was quiet for a while you thought he didn’t want to speak of it anymore ready to go back to sleep you tucked your head under his chin. “Would being with Nat make you happy?”

“I am happy” You spouted instantly. You were on the verge of panicking. This was the last thing you wanted, for Steve to doubt himself and your relationship.

“Would you be happier if you were with Nat?” He wondered.

“All I know is I would be miserable if I’m not with you” You said and left it at that untangling yourself from his arms to sleep on your back.

He hummed at that. “Have you ever been with a woman?”

You resisted the urge to groan. You really were tired. “No. If I had I would’ve told you” You and Steve were each other’s first. You didn’t have any experience with men or women so when Steve when told you he didn’t as well, you were happy, there would be no pressure, no expectations to live up to.

“Would being with a woman – or Nat be different?”

“I don’t know probably” You could think of a million ways it would be different and amazing.

“If it’s something that will make you happy then I want that for you” He explained drawing patterns on your stomach.

You snorted “You?” you had come to know over the course of your relationship that Steve was jealous if anything. He absolutely hated it if another man even looked at you. There was that time when he pulled you into him by firmly gripping your waist, flexing his muscles and trying to act all ‘alpha' to scare the poor guy who was just trying to make small talk.

You would have been mad at him if you didn’t notice the slightest hint of vulnerability in his eyes. He did apologize to you. Confessing that he didn’t feel good enough for you which was beyond ridiculous. Steve was your best guy. Sure his tall and burly physic is what first caught your eye, but even if he didn’t have all that he has now, you’d still love him just as much. He still needed to get that through his thick skull.

He often sulked or pouted for a while when you’d go out with your friends leaving him alone to his own devices. He wasn’t overbearing enough for it to be annoying, but he was possessive enough for it to be almost cute. “You don’t know how to share”

“That’s not true. My Ma always said that sharing is important and made sure to teach me that” He said defensively.

“Sure”

“look I don’t like it when random men flirt with you. They don’t deserve you. I don’t deserve you – “ you opened your mouth to interrupt him but he didn’t give you the opportunity “I trust Nat. She would take as good care of you like I do”

As much as you would’ve liked to say that you don’t need or like to be taken care of, you actually did like it when Steve did it for you. You weren’t sure how you would feel if Nat were to do so.

“Are you sure?” You asked propping yourself up on your elbow. He nodded running his hand up and down the side of your waist. “What if it changes things between us?”

“then we end it” He said gravely which nearly frightened you.

You don’t remember when you dozed off. The next morning you asked Steve if he was still serious about it. Part of you was afraid it was some sort of test to see how loyal you were. Part of you was excited to get to explore a relationship with your crush. He said he'd be willing to give it a shot as long as you were honest with each other.

It was strange of Steve to act so... progressive? If that’s the right word for it. He was stubborn, often not willing to change. But it wasn’t too hard for you to believe that he’d make an exception just for you.

The moment Natasha laid her eyes on you, she knew she was a goner. She wasn’t one to believe in love at first sight, or even love at times. But she knew she felt an instant attraction towards you. Just how sweet and naive you were. So soft, innocent, untainted by the world. She knew you had some sort of feelings for her, she could tell by just how nervous you got when you were around her.

She told herself she would only admire you from far. She had a habit of falling for unavailable people. She had managed to develop some sort of friendship with Steve and she wasn’t willing to jeopardise that.

She was more than surprised when you asked her out. Telling her that Steve was okay with it. And it took a lot to surprise her. She had seen everything. She never pegged Rogers to be someone who would share. She was for the first time at a loss for words. She wished she could see your face while you did it. Just how embarrassed you would be. But you did it over text. She agreed to it. Of course she did she would never say no to such an opportunity.

There you were so shy and nervous as if you were meeting her for the first time. You gave her a single stem of rose. “It reminds me of your fiery red hair” You said looking at the ground.

She was about to make a quip to ask if Rogers told you to say that, considering just how romantic he could be. But she decided to just accept the compliment and the rose. While eating dinner there were some awkward silences but for the most part it was quite pleasant. Nat never really dated. She didn’t have the time or space for it. She never felt the need to anyway. She told herself to not get her hopes up. She was still trying to figure out Steve’s intentions. She knew for a fact he wasn’t a cuckold. He couldn’t be. Although nothings impossible. Nat dropped you off at your apartment door, which was just one floor above hers. She pecked your lips for a quick kiss thanking you for your time and the rose.

Next order of business was to talk to Steve. He had a hard time lying or hiding his emotions, even if he wanted to. Which most of the times he didn’t. He was straightforward, direct, a no nonsense guy. Which was a blatant conflict to how he acted around you. He was still honest, but a lovestruck fool. She supposed that’s what loving someone like you does to a person. She was lucky to catch him while he was on a break. Sparing with a few recruits they were borrowing from the FBI for the time being.

He nodded at her to acknowledge her presence as if urging her to speak. Her curiousity ate away at her. What were his intentions? She knew him enough to know they couldn’t possibly be malicious.

She told him about what a good time she had with you. “how are you okay with this?” She asked.

“I think her hearts big enough for two people” He admitted. There was something about the way he said it, a wistful look in his eyes, how he seemed to try so hard to hide his sadness.

She didn’t really believe him. But she knew he would come around if he had any doubts.

For the next month you and Nat went on date quite often.

You were nervous if anything. Steve was your first partner. You had some experience before him but nothing too significant. You didn’t know much. He didn’t ask for much in bed either, other than making you keep up with his super solider stamina, which was a hard task in itself.

You knew Nat had plenty of experience. Word travels fast around here. You had also heard gossip about her sleeping with people on missions, which was very plausible now that you thought about it. You didn’t want her to find you lacking in any way. You thought the wine would calm your nerves but you only felt yourself becoming more and more nervous.

As things got heated after a movie night you had both moved to your bedroom, making out with teeth and tongue like horny teenagers.

Nat must have felt you tense under her as she broke the kiss to cup your face. “What’s wrong chernub?” she gave you a smile that made your heart melt. Her eyes so sincere, with such pure love in them, all for you.

“I just... well have you ever been with a girl?” You still weren’t sure what the status of Nat’s sexuality was. You didn’t ever ask her because it didn’t matter. All that matter to you was that she liked you.

“I have. But never with anyone I was in love with” She said giving your lips a quick peck, smirking at your dumbfounded expression.

“I – I love you too” You gulp down taking a few deep breaths, that was unexpected “You caught me off guard” You smiled back at her, leaning into her touch “I’ve never been with anyone but Stevie”

“Then I’m happy to be your first” she purred palming your breasts through your dress. She pulled it up by the hem leaving you in your bra and panties. You almost felt self conscious as she eyed your cleavage hungrily, unhooking and tossing your bra away. She quickly took off her blouse and jeans. Even in her haste she was so elegant, her movements so smooth as her maroon lacy bra slipped off of her arms.

You couldn’t keep your eyes off of her breasts. They looked so smooth, her dark pink hard nubs perfectly complimented by her pale porcelain skin. You awkwardly held each in your palm, lifting them up as if to weigh them. They were just the right size and filled your hands perfectly. She let you explore her breasts, trace your fingers over her body, dipping them in her belly button, before she harshly pushed you onto your back, your head hitting the pillow.

“There’s no way I can be patientl with you” She said training quick butterfly kissing down your body.

“Wait! I want to go down on you” You requested. You had spent hours researching on how to please a woman. Even if you were nervous, you were excited to explore her body.

“That’s alright baby. I’m a giver” She winked at you. She stared at your pussy in awe, her lips so close to it that you felt her hot breaths against your warm folds. You propped yourself up on your elbows to look at her. You gasped loudly as you felt her lick a strip against it, wrapping her lips around your clit, harshly sucking on it. She wasn’t kidding when she said she wouldn’t be patient with you. You held onto the headboard trying your best to muffle your moans and screams.

You could feel yourself on the edge of it heaven. It was all too good. But then she stopped. You whined at the loss of what could’ve been an amazing orgasm. You looked down at her about to complain to do something to make her continue. You followed her gaze to your door and stared in horror at Steve standing there staring at Nat’s head buried in your pussy. What was more shocking was the very evident dent in Steve’s crotch, which almost looked painful.

You weren’t sure what you could say. Do you apologize? He gave you permission to date her. He never said anything about being intimate. You were about to explain, that it was spontaneous, that you weren’t thinking, you’d stop then and there if he asked you to.

But then “Would you like to join us?” Nat asked tracing your folds with her fingers. You shivered under her, being too sensitive and overwhelmed.

“Yeah I think I will” He said unbuckling his dark leather belt, his dress pants falling to his ankles. He stripped down to his underwear staring you down. “I’m going to have to punish you, after all” he took off his boxers his cock slapping against his abdomen.

“Wh – punish me?” You stammered panicking. Any other day you would act out purposely just so you could get punished. You loved this dark, unhinged side of him he only showed to you behind closed doors. How he bent you over his knee and make you count the smacks he delivered to your bum.

But right now, you were still mourning your ruined orgasm. You absolutely could not take any kind of edging, you have to come.

“He’s right” She smirked looking back at you.

“How do you wanna do this?” He asked Nat stroking his cock. Which did mildly infuriated you. They were ignoring you.

“I might have an idea” She pulled you up as Steve laid down on the bed. She guided him inside you as you straddled his hips and she crouched down with his thighs between her legs, drawing slow intricate circles on your clit.

You weren’t use to this position. Steve only ever liked making love while looking at you, he clearly wasn’t pleased with only being about to see your back. He grabbed at your hips angrily thrusting up into you. Where did your sweet innocent lover go? Seems like Natasha was a bad influence on you both.

You gasped into Nat’s mouth as you felt him filling you up. You vaguely heard her mockingly asking Steve to take it easy on you. You couldn’t think about that right now. All you could focus on was her fingers on your clit and Steve’s cock brushing up against your g-spot. It was all too good and too much.

“It’s all... It’s too much” You whimpered leaning away from Nat, pressing your palm on Steve’s stomach.

Steve abruptly stopped his thrusts “Are you alright princess” He petted he back of your head and smoothened your hair. You felt his back against yours as he got up wiping the sweat off of your forehead, pushing the hair that was sticking to it back. “You’re such a good girl. My sweet girl. ” He murmured as he kept whispering sweet nothings in your ear.

You calmed down as you tried to focus on your breathing. You didn’t know if you should be frustrated or relieved that they both just stopped. His hot and hard length was still buried deep inside you. You couldn’t take it anymore. You rolled your hips as his breath hitched.

Nat snorted “You have no idea how this game works, do you?” She pushed Steve back onto the bed instructing him to keep rutting up into you. You could do nothing but whimper.

Steve was a bit apprehensive. There was this one time he accidentally elbowed you in your ribs. He’s guilty about that to this day. He once told you his worst nightmare would be hurting you. That he wanted nothing else in this world but to make you happy and treat you like the princess you are. You smiled at the memory, he sure did have a way with words.

You cried as Nat rolled your clit between her fingers. She kissed the side of your mouth urging you to come. “Come on my fingers” She ordered.

Steve didn’t like that. He plunged up into you. You don’t think you have ever felt him this deep inside you. “Go ahead baby girl. Let go” He rasped. You could feel his muscles tightening beneath your palm. He wasn’t too far behind you.

You screamed in pure bliss as the coil building in your belly snapped, putting an end to your agony. You felt Steve’s grip on your hips stiffen as the pace of his thrusts escalated. “Fuck – shit” he cursed and groaned as you felt him come inside you.

You hugged Nat as you stayed like that for a while. His cock softening inside you. You clenched around him just for fun, which earned you a slap to your bum.

“Let’s get you cleaned up” Nat helped you up, Steve’s cock slipping out of you, you hissed at the empty feeling. His come oozed out of you. Steve hummed at the sight, playing with your folds before pushing his come back into you. You whimpered as you felt his fingers enter your overworked pussy.

“I’m sorry doll” He drawled out.

Nat carefully cleaned your thighs and your heat with a warm washcloth then tossed it to Steve. He cleaned himself up and asked if you wanted a bath.

“No I’m too tired” You murmured as you fell asleep sandwiched between them. It felt nice to be surrounded by soft comfortable warmth.

It was quite easy for you to fall into a routine with your two lovers. You had been dating Nat for months now; if you could call it that. No one from the team suspected a thing. Both Steve and Nat, unlike you, were private people. They didn’t broadcast their private lives for everyone to see.

You also found that they were similar yet different in so many ways. Nat was more of a friend to you then Steve was, he was the man out of time after all. Nat liked the same movies and songs as you did. You could go shopping with her and go to concerts with her, share so many things together.

You also found that Steve was a lot more jealous and possessive than Nat. While Nat was grateful to be in your life and that she got to spend time with you. Steve often wanted monopoly over you. Nat would tease him about how your unorthodox relationship is a nice exercise for him to humble himself.

Which is why you were surprised when you found out just how dominant and controlling Nat could be in bed. She had to have things go her way. There wasn’t room to argue with her even Steve followed her orders, the few times he did join you both. He would say he likes to concentrate on pleasing you and doesn’t care too much about Nat interrupting his process. Nat was happy with just you or you and Steve.

It was strange to be with them both together. Mostly in a good way. They gave you such intense earth-shattering orgasms. You were afraid you were truly ruined for anyone else. When laying down boundaries you asked them to not kiss, but you were okay with them doing everything else. Steve did find it strange. How would you be okay with them being intimate and object to them kissing? Nat however understood why kisses somehow felt more intimate to you.

They both didn’t really want to do anything together. Steve was adamantly against it. Which was unsurprising to you. Sex was a big deal to him. He probably didn’t plan on doing it with anyone but you for the rest of his life.

They were both amazing kissers. But Steve did it much more often than Nat. He had no qualms about showing you just how much he loved you everyday. Nat sadly did. She was generally more distant. You tried your best to not take it personally, to let her move at her own pace. But you couldn’t help but want her to be closed to you, to tell you things she wouldn’t to anyone else, to trust you, she did claim you were the love of her life.

“Baby” you breathed out as you looked up at her. You were laying on her lap while scrolling through your Instagram. Steve had been gone for over a week on a mission. This could be the perfect moment. You did hear that communication is important in any relationship.

“What’s up?” She asked. You were always amazed at how smooth and sultry her voice was even when she was trying to be casual.

“Tell me a secret” You put your chin on top of your hands on her stomach. Batting your lashes at her, though that trick only works with Steve.

“What kind of secret?” She asked squinting at you, ltickling your armpit as your squirmed.

“Something you’ve never told anyone else” She hummed. You felt an ache in your heart at that. A part of her will always be beyond reach for you. You could never comprehend what she had been through, still you would like to at least try. “Well why don’t you just tell me what you want more than anything?”

“Some ice cream with whiskey sounds really good right now” she deadpanned.

You rolled your eyes at that. Sitting up straight to let her know you meant business. “No. I meant, if you could have anything what would it be?”

You waited several long minutes. She looked like she was contemplating what she wanted to say. “More than anything? I guess I’d want a family. I have one right now. But kids and a white picket fence sounds like a dream” She looked at your confused face, her eyes had never looked so empty and sad “I can’t, you know? They do a procedure which makes you sterile forever. But I’m happy right now. I don’t need that. I guess you only want what you can’t have” she shrugged. Moving into the kitchen to look for some ice cream.

You weren’t sure how you should react. There wasn’t anything you could do to better the situation. The fact that the procedure would most likely have been done with out her consent made your heart ache. “You know there are more than one way to become a parent”

She came back with two bowls of ice cream, handing one to you. “This job doesn’t really leave room for that kind of luxury. What about you? Do you and cap have plan on having kids? I’m sure he’d love to have the American Dream”

“Not really” You said looking at your melting ice cream. You had an inkling of a doubt till now but you could confirm it. She didn’t really consider herself part of your throuple. She didn’t see a future with you and Steve. She had always had one foot out the door. “I’ve never wanted kids. And Steve well... you know his job...” you mumbled playing the harsh edges of the sparking diamond on your engagement ring.

”There’s no point in thinking so ahead. Things are always changing” she said wistfully.

“Do you see a future with me? With me and Steve?” You hopefully looked up at her.

“What kind of future do you expect?” she asked in a tone that scared you, she hasn’t spoken to you like that since your first meeting.

“I don’t know. What we have now is perfect” You confessed.

“What we have now, is that you’re going to have your fairytale wedding to Steve” She rolled her eyes. You had never seen her be jealous of him. “And then who knows what happens to us. Let’s not do this. Things are good as they are” She declared in a tone that didn’t leave room for negotiation.

“No” you said firmly “I don’t want a casual relationship. There’s nothing casual about how I feel. You can’t just be like that. Like you’ll leave whenever you want!” you threw your hands up exasperated with her.

She furrowed her brows staring you down, as if that would intimidate you. “You have treated me like a sidepiece from the beginning. How many times have you brushed me off to spend time with Steve? How many people know about us?” She asked gesturing her hand between both of you. “You can’t have your cake and eat it too”

“I’ll tell everyone then. Whatever it takes to be with you” you pleaded. You weren’t ashamed to beg. It was clear to you now that you had always treated Nat as if she was less important than Steve. It wasn’t because you loved her less than him, it was because Steve had a tendency to be jealous and insecure. Apparently she was really good at hiding her feelings, better than Steve anyway.

“You can’t do that” She said flatly. “He’s captain America. We’re the Avengers. We have a reputation to maintain. We’re controversial enough. We don’t need any more scandals” She said shaking her head.

“Then we’ll figure something out” You hugged her side, seeking her comfort, you didn’t like the direction this conversation was heading in.

“No” She shook you off getting up from your sofa, placing her bowl on the coffee table. “this whole thing was a mistake from the start. I should’ve known better than do this with someone like you” She said as you looked at her with watery eyes and quivering lips “I’m sorry dove. We just want different things” She swiped your tears before averting her gaze and leaving.

You hugged your knees sobbing like you never had before. Your dream, your fantasy was ripped from you. One minute you felt as if you were on cloud nine, you had two wonderful people who cared so much for you, who loved you for you.

And now you were drowning, in your sorrow, in guilt and in pain. Knowing that you only caused them both pain. You failed to make them as happy as they made you. You didn’t deserve either of them.

Steve was more than excited to see his girl after over two weeks. Before Nat he was always worried to leave you alone. He knew how much you liked having company around, how you would get lonely and lost in your intrusive thoughts and worry about him.

Initially it was hard to share you. Not being the love of your life, like you are to him, was disappointing to say the least. Then he saw just how happy Nat made you. He understood that just because you loved Nat, didn’t mean you loved him any less. He still had his moments of jealously here and there, but at times like these, he’s thankful for you both.

He punched in the code to your apartment, opening the door, expecting to run to you, hug you and cradle your soft form in his arms. But as soon as he step his foot in, he knew something was wrong.

He called out your name looking for you. He saw you laying on the sofa in a fetal position making yourself small, a blanket covering you, you were surrounded by chocolate wrappers and what looked like cheeto dust. He walked owards you, stepping on the wine spilt from your glass. He straightened the glass putting it away from the edge of the coffee table, crouching down to look at your face.

Tears left your eyes as soon as you saw him blocking the tv. You sat up hugging him, pushing your face into his chest. He could hear you little sniffles as he ran his fingers through your hair to sooth you. Your hair, which is usually silky and smells like vanilla, was greasy and smelt of chinese take out and wine. He could tell you hadn’t showered in a while.

After a while of holding you to him he cradled your face in his hands. “Hey” he said softly taking you in. You looked miserable. Your eyes and nose red, your face completely defeated. “What happened?”

“Nat broke up with me” you whimpered as if you couldn’t believe your own words. “Said she wanted kids and we’re not compatible. I don’t know” You whimpered again, so overwhelmed and exhausted.

“It's okay calm down” He never would’ve expected this. Though in hindsight he should've seen this coming. He deemed Nat worthy of you because she was passionate and loving. But she didn’t have the best romantic track record. That paired with your unusual situation, this was bound to happen. “It’s okay” He said again cuddling with you on the sofa. He whispered sweet nothings in your hair. He would’ve almost been glad if this had happened a few months ago. But now when he had come to slightly like the dynamic the three of you shared and seeing just how heartbroken you were. He wasn’t sure he could ever forgive Nat.

“You have me. You’ll always have me” He whispered in your hair and meant it. When he said he loved you for the first time, over a year ago, he had decided that you would be together forever, that he’ll be there for you, protect you no matter what. His love for you was unconditional and knew no bounds. It could survive anything.

“You promise?” You asked him shyly. Your voice so weak and trembling. He wished he could wrap you up and hide you from the whole world.

“Yes I promise” he kissed your forehead.

“You still love me?” You looked up at him with your sweet innocent eyes.

“I’ll always love you. Nothing will ever come between us” He swore holding onto you as you cried yourself to sleep. You’ll be okay, eventually. He knew that but it was hard to see you this broken.

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gettin-bi-bi-bi · 3 years

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hi, (f18) I identify as bi but i feel like my attraction to women is creepy or predatory somewhere

and i was still coping fine with that feeling but recently i came out to all my friends and we were just discussing it and one of my friends(who is super supportive and shit) suddenly was like haha keep your gf safe from her to another friend, which is like fine whatever yall are just joking its fine

and recently i was just losing my shit over my crush(girl) and was discussing it with him and he was like your going to overboard with it and are behaving excessively(idk how to convert it in English sorry) and said that i shouldn't do that, again it's ok i wont talk to him about it now and maybe i am being excessive but he wouldn't have said it if it were a boy crush would he now?

since this im just so insecure about coming off as predatory to women and i don't want to do that obviously, maybe im overanalyzing this situation and he didnt really mean it this way as he has never behaved this way before i came out to him months ago and now I'm just like i shouldn't be gay and it ANNOYING coz it took me around like 2 whole years to be kind of comfortable with being gay and now it's like im close to being back at square one just because he made those comments or maybe im being too sensitive and i don't wanna go thru the same shit again idk what to do

What your friend said was biphobic. Plain and simple. You are probably very correct that he wouldn't have said those things if you had been crushing on a boy and talked about that. He literally went ~why do those queers always have to rub it in my face?~ when he told you you are "overboard/excessive" when you talk about a girl crush. That is NOT okay. It's queerphobic, it's biphobic. It sucks. Same with that comment about "keep your girlfriend safe from her". He might've meant that as a joke but that doesn't make it okay. That's a shitty and insensitive thing to say. And I am not surprised that you ended up internalising this and now feel like you're being predatory for being attracted to women. It probably isn't just from what he said but it's the most recent thing that happened and it may have pushed this to the surface.

So again: you are not being too sensitive here. What he said was bad. I sincerely hope that he will apologise if you tell him that those kinda comments are hurtful and not okay and that he'll work on being a better and truly supportive ally. Or else I'd recommend getting better friends. And also: get more queer and bi friends! Because someone who is only "supportive and shit" as long as you don't express certain parts of your sexuality isn't actually supprtive.

That fear of being predatory is a common internalised issue that queer woman have and it comes from the old ~predatory lesbian~ myth. Add to that the stereotype of bi people being "greedy and sex-crazed" and you can see how this is extra common amongst bi women. But that's an unfounded fear. Of course women can also be abusive or predatory but simply being attracted to someone isn't predatory behaviour. Having fantasies about someone you're attracted to isn't predatory. Talking about your crush isn't predatory. And even asking your crush out or trying to initiate flirting isn't predatory. It only becomes predatory when the other person has given you signals that they are not interested and you still don't leave them be. These rules aren't different for different genders. If you know that chatting up a guy or talking about a guy crush isn't predatory then that same behaviour is also not predatory when it's about a woman.

Maddie

P.S.: Maybe check out my post about internalised biphobia here.

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bloodraven55 · 4 years

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I have no problem with may or any trans character or person in real life. I have an issue with it because of the double standard with people saying rose/garden makes them uncomfortable for the same reasons. I have no issues with Blake being bi, saphron/terra married, coco/ilia lesbians, Scarlett gay & want more rep in the show/media in general. It seems you have an issue with Blake being bi & in love with sun so I guess by your standards that makes makes you biphobic. Keep reaching bud.

Arguing that Penny is just Pietro’s soul in a robot body is transphobic. You’re saying that simply because a man’s aura was used to give her life that despite all of the evidence that she is her own person and most importantly a girl, she’s nothing more than an old man in the body of a young woman. The show has made it crystal clear that Penny and Pietro are two entirely separate people and that her aura/soul is 100% her own, making it completely different to a situation like Ozcar’s where Ozpin is always present in Oscar’s mind even when he’s dormant and can take control at any time.

All I’m getting from this is that you tolerate LGBT+ rep only when you can ignore it and it doesn't threaten your view of cishet as the default. You’ve already admitted openly that you refuse to believe any character can be LGBT+ unless they flat out state it no matter the evidence in the show, and that you will always consider an opposite-sex ship canon no matter if they haven’t confessed their feelings or kissed while demanding that a same-sex ship confess and kiss before you consider it canon.

You’re fine with Blake being bi but you flat out refuse to acknowledge that she has or has ever had romantic feelings for Yang or any other woman and will only accept a straight ship as endgame for her. You’re fine with Sapphron and Terra being married because they only appeared in a few episodes and will never be on screen again. You’re fine with Coco and Ilia being lesbian because neither of them will likely ever have a significant presence in the show again so you can easily ignore their “gayness.” You’re fine with Scarlet being gay because it’s only explicit in the manga anthology/the upcoming spin off novel.

Blake has already dated Adam in the past and pretty obviously used to have a crush on Sun in canon, which I am grateful for because it makes her bisexuality clear by showing rather than telling. So no, I have absolutely zero problem with the idea of Blake being in a relationship with a guy. What I have a problem with is you pretending to care about LGBT+ rep while parroting homophobic and transphobic rhetoric and also blatantly erasing Blake’s canonical attraction to Yang, a.k.a. a woman.

“When Sun winks at Blake and asks her to the dance, it means he's interested in her. But when Yang winks at Blake and asks her to the dance, it means nothing.”

“When Blake kisses Sun on the cheek the same way I kiss my grandmother, it means she’s in love with him. But when Yang flirts with Blake by complimenting her appearance and Blake blushes in response, it means that they’re just good friends.”

“When Sun himself states twice that he has zero intention of dating Blake and Blake has shown no attraction to him whatsoever since the start of Volume 3, it means that they’re endgame. But when Nora, who also predicted A/rkos, states that Blake and Yang are more than friends and compares their relationship to her and Ren’s in the same scene where her and Ren kiss, it means that Blake and Yang’s relationship is totally platonic.”

The horrific hypocrisy of this logic is laughable, and it’s homophobia, plain and simple. Straight ships need next to nothing to be considered canon while for a same-sex ship with the exact same development, or even more, to be canon the writers have to write and sign an official document confirming it before it’s accepted as legitimate.

The only double standards and reaching here is you stating that it’s impossible for Blake to be in love with Yang or for Yang to be LGBT+ until the characters or writers explicitly state it despite the evidence in canon already proving it, while also stating that your preferred ship is canon and that all characters are straight by default even though it’s never been explicitly confirmed by the characters or writers and so by your own standards can’t be true.

You care so much about LGBT+ rep that you claim that cishet is the default, try to lecture actual LGBT+ people on what is and isn’t homophobic, have spent literal years stalking people who’ve done nothing more than try and enjoy their ship just to spam them with braindead takes about why they’re not allowed to celebrate the wlw relationship between two main characters which has been developing since Volume 2, and keep harassing them even if they block you more than seven goddamn times.

Yeah, you clearly care sooooo much about LGBT+ rep lmao. You’ve been harassing me constantly with your insecure sealioning nonsense and the same nonsensical recycled arguments for over twelve months so kindly go and fuck yourself, you pathetic piece of human garbage.

#r/wby #asks #anon asks #raven answers y'all #raven is salty about stuff

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hazelandglasz · 4 years

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Hi dear, how are you? May I prompt a silly thing? I saw Magnum's commercial, so: Kurt and Blaine first met at the beautiful wedding of a couple of girl friends of theirs (idk why, but they never actually got to be introduced to each other before... and maybe they're the bridesmen? eh, what a coincidence!). Of course, each of them catches a bouquet... *wink wink*

Oooh

Link to the Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJXuDkmoFfc

I know it may sound tone-deaf to post a cutesy fic right now, but I feel like we need the levity and relief of just a moment spent in a different universe

I hope you’ll enjoy this little one :)

On AO3

Kurt is just so happy for Santana.

For all her brashness and hard exterior, he can’t think of anyone else who deserves a happy romance, and Dani certainly brings it for her.

They both complement each other so well, it’s uncanny.

And Dani fits so well into the group of misfits who travelled from Ohio to settle in New York, some days, Kurt feels like she was always meant to be with them.

As such, he thought he had met all of her friends, including the potential bridesmaids, bridesmen, and honorary person.

(His money was on Graced Lightning, if someone cares for his opinion.)

Though there is a name that has been repeated enough without Kurt being able to associate a face with the name.

But who is this Blaine? Where is she?

That is, until the rehearsal dinner.

Kurt is minding his own business, going down the stairs while arranging his cufflinks, when he spots someone standing in front of the mirror, fixing their outfit.

“Excuse me,” he calls. “Are you here for the Lopez-Ochoa dinner?”

The person turns on their heels and Kurt has to remember that he is an adult man now, not a teenager who can (and would) giggle when faced with a gorgeous man.

Because this, Sir, is a gorgeous specimen of a man, and what he was arranging in the mirror must have been his bowtie.

A bowtie which manages to both be elegant and pay homage to Dani’s profession, Kurt has to give the man kudos on this particular fashion jujitsu.

“I am indeed. I am Blaine.”

Ah. So Blaine is a he.

“The infamous Blaine,” Kurt says as he shakes Blaine’s hand (manicured, clean, soft. Kurt likey.). “I have heard so much about you, but I didn’t know…”

“That I was a man. Dani loves spreading confusion about me.” Blaine smiles fondly, much like Kurt does when he is faced with Santana’s idiosyncrasies. “And you must be Kurt.”

“Indeed,” Kurt replies, preening under Blaine’s gaze. “And whatever you heard about me is probably true to an extent.”

“To an extent?”

“Santana can exaggerate, and Dani tends to calm her, so. Overall, ya know.”

Blaine’s smile deepens, making his eyes crinkle.

It’s a testimony to how far gone Kurt is that he finds it adorable already.

They start walking around the corridors, and Kurt knows that it’s actually the longer way to the venue, but he can’t find it in himself to care. He’s walking side by side with a gorgeous man who has been giving him the Look™, and he will appreciate it for as long as he can.

“It’s a bit odd, isn’t it,” he starts, following his inner monologue.

“What is?”

“That we’re the best men in a lesbian wedding and we’ve never met each other.”

Blaine nods. “It is odd,” he replies, hands in his pockets. He truly exudes some old Hollywood vibes—really attractive and really inspiring—which Kurt really wants to appreciate in detail.

(Before messing it all up as he would ravish Blaine, but that’s for him and his mind to know.)

“In the past year, I have travelled a lot, I guess,” Blaine continues. “I kept in touch with Dani whenever I had a moment, though, and she let me crash at her place when I was back in town. But now I’m here to stay,” he adds, giving Kurt a sideway glance, “and I will not live with them as a married couple.”

“Wise. Trust me,” Kurt laughs, “you wouldn’t have handled living with them as an engaged couple.”

“Oh?”

“I know I didn’t handle it the most… gracefully, shall I say.”

“No, you did not,” Santana interrupts them, looking smoking hot, if Kurt may say so, in her three-piece suit. “But I forgive you.”

“How generous,” Kurt says in a deadpan, before pulling her into a hug. “You look amazing, ‘Tana.”

“I know,” she replies, brushing invisible lint from her lapel. She blushes as she does so, though, softening her statement. “Thank you. And you must be Dani’s Blaine.”

“You must be the love of my girl’s life,” Blaine replies, opening his arms and waiting for Santana to hug him.

She mutters something Kurt can’t decipher, but she still goes in for the hug. “She didn’t tell me her best friend was also her dad, though.”

“An old man in a young man’s body,” Blaine chirps back, making her laugh and making Kurt look down at the aforementioned body.

His glance doesn’t escape Santana’s attention, and he glares at her smirk.

“Now, come on, let’s get this rehearsal dinner over with,” she says, linking her arms with theirs to pull them along. “Dani’s nana is already hitting on the bar staff.”

“Leave her to me,” Blaine replies, patting Santana’s hand. “I’ll take care of her.”

“As in?”

“I’ll let her hit on me for the rest of the evening.”

“Cocky.”

“Knowledgeable. Nana Francesca loves to pinch my cheeks.”

“Which cheeks?”

“Yes.”

Kurt can’t help the roar of laughter that comes out at that cheeky reply. He doesn’t even notice when Santana leaves them alone to join her fiancée.

Where has Blaine been all this time?

Why didn’t Santana play matchmaker before?

Kurt mentally shrugs it off. What matters is that they do meet, doesn’t it?

“You’re…,” Blaine starts, beaming at Kurt before hesitating. “Um.”

“If it’s a compliment, go ahead.”

“You’re really beautiful when you smile like that.”

Kurt instantly runs his fingers through his hair to keep them from coming in front of his face. “Oh. Um, thanks. I usually… don’t.”

Blaine nods, like he understands what Kurt means by that, and maybe he does.

In which case, they have even more in common and why on Earth did Santana keep Kurt from his soulmate?!

“Come on, let’s take advantage of the bar,” Blaine offers, gesturing toward the already crowded section of the venue.

“Not planning on getting drunk tomorrow?”

“I’m a best man of honor,” Blaine replies, holding one hand to his heart. “I need to be at the ready to fulfill such a position.”

Kurt mentally goes through all the positions he would like Blaine to fulfill while, well, “at the ready,” but he quickly closes that file.

For now.

“And knowing Dani and her family,” Blaine continues, seemingly unaware of the depravation going through Kurt’s mind, “all she will need from me tomorrow will be to keep her mom and her nana away from the waiters. And the bar.”

“Which is a job that requires a full vigilance,” Kurt comments, observing the way the Ochoa women seem to be able to drink everybody under the table.

“Indeed.”

“As Santana’s best man of honor,” Kurt muses, “I guess my job will be to make sure she’s staying hydrated and she doesn’t get her hands on a microphone.”

Blaine looks doubtful. “You know they have a first duet planned, right?”

“What?”

“They rehearsed a song to sing as a married couple’s first duet, to surprise everybody who would expect a married couple’s first dance.”

“Oh Lord.”

“But Santana wouldn’t…”

“Oh she would.”

Blaine winces and Kurt nods. “You haven’t been around her much, have you?”

“Just every now and then, and she’s been perfectly nice.”

Kurt can’t help his snort. “Santana Lopez, nice?”

“In a rather delightfully brash way, yes.”

Kurt snatches two glasses of champagne and hands one to Blaine. “If you find Santana delightful, you’re definitely the man for the job.”

Blaine holds up his glass and clinks it with Kurt’s, a glint in his eyes. “Here’s to being the right men for the job.”

“Here, here.”

---

The rest of the rehearsal dinner is, Kurt must admit, quite a blur.

After a while, the waiter just leaves the tray of champagne glasses at the table Kurt and Blaine chose as their own, and they keep on talking all night long—they briefly pause when Santana’s grandmother and Dani’s father make their speeches, but otherwise, they only go their separate ways because both brides pulled them apart to go to sleep in the early morning.

Kurt can’t believe it took him this long to meet a man like Blaine. So perfect in his imperfections, so in tune with Kurt’s unspoken feelings and thoughts, so funny in a subtly dry way.

So handsome, too, especially at the end of the night when he untied his bowtie and left it hanging around his neck, two top buttons opened…

“Kurt, stop daydreaming about your man and come help me get in this dress!”

Santana’s call effectively wakes Kurt up from his fantasizing and he gulps down his mug of coffee.

“Don’t worry, ‘Tana,” he says, pulling down on the laced top of the dress to keep it in place in the back with tape, “nothing is going to go wrong.”

Santana takes a deep breath and looks at him in their reflection. “I know,” she replies softly. “Nothing can go wrong since I’m marrying my soulmate.”

The certainty in her voice makes something in Kurt’s chest tighten, but he brushes it aside.

Today is not the day to let self-pity take over.

Besides, who knows; today may end with a slow dance in the arms of a perfect man…

“Ready?”

“Ready. Let’s make an honest woman out of me.”

“Ha, as if!”

---

Kurt has not been to a lot of weddings, and he may be biased, but he has never seen a more beautiful couple of brides.

And Blaine looks even more scrumptious today that he did the day before, in his pink suit.

Dani really did a good job of finding a color to compliment Santana’s simple cream choice.

The pink and cream colors are everywhere in the reception, with some darker highlights to remind everybody that those brides are first and foremost badasses, including in the married couple’s bouquets.

Once Santana and Dani charm everybody with their “first duet”—an acoustic version of “Here Comes The Sun” with Dani playing the ukulele—Kurt can finally breathe and enjoy the wedding.

Namely, he can spend all of his time with Blaine.

Or watching Blaine smoothly taking the bottle of tequila from Mrs. Ochoa Senior’s hands and replacing it with tall glasses of cocktails that are more fruits than alcohol, without a word of complaint.

Kurt also enjoys the sight of Blaine’s blush when the same woman manages to spank him lightly as he passes by with a plate of mini cakes.

On his way to Kurt, oh my.

“Hey.”

“Finally taking a break from your bridesman’s duties?”

“Yep,” Blaine says, popping the last sound as he drops his whole body into the chair next to Kurt. As he puts the plate of pastries between them, the back of his hand brushes against Kurt’s wrist, and all at once, Kurt understands the woes of all the Victorian heroines. “In about, oh, ten minutes, they’ll throw the bouquets, leave, and I will have performed my duties as best I could.”

Kurt blames the numerous glasses of Moscato wine he kept on taking away from Santana and drank on the multiple things he would like Blaine to perform, hopefully on him, preferably on a comfortable surface, but he’s not picky.

“Ah yes, the bouquets,” he says instead, picking up a strawberry tartlet. “AKA the Hunger Games of bachelorettes?”

“Yep. Except Santana and Dani want us in the crowd.”

“No.”

Blaine snickers, looking down at his shoes before looking back at Kurt, his smile boyish and Kurt could kiss it off his face. “Something about gender stereotypes being fought on the battleground or something.”

“Eurgh.”

“Hey, it was yours, not mine.”

“They’re ours, now.”

The words come out of Kurt’s mouth before he can stop himself, and he can feel a panic rising in his chest.

Blaine’s smile softens as he cocks his head to the side. “I like the sound of that,” he says, voice barely above a murmur.

And yet, above all the mayhem and the music and the shouts, Kurt only hears him.

“Oh.”

“Come on, let’s stand with all these young people,” Blaine says, standing and offering his hand. “And then, hopefully, you’ll allow me to have a dance.”

“And then?”

“And then we will see.”

Kurt takes Blaine’s hand. “That’s a program I can get on board with.”

There is quite a crowd assembled at the bottom of the stairs of the venue, where Santana and Dani stand, already changed in their traveling outfits, but still holding their bouquets. Blaine squeezes Kurt’s hand before going to Dani’s side of the crowd.

“Ready?” Santana calls, peals of laughter and wolf-whistles answering her. “Alright!”

They both turn and in the same move, throw their bouquets towards the crowd.

Kurt sees it happening in slow motion, lifting his arms to protect his face from the hands and elbows going in his direction.

And yet, his fingers close reflexively around the thing that lands in them.

“Oh,” he says when he opens his eyes and sees the bouquet in his hand, Mercedes clapping her hands and Santana shouting like he just scored a goal.

Over the heads and the crowd, Kurt immediately looks for Blaine.

And finds him with a matching bouquet in his hand, looking as dazzled as Kurt feels.

“Oh,” he repeats.

When Santana passes him by, she pulls him in a hug. “Go get him, Tiger,” she whispers before kissing his cheek. “We can wait for you to get together before we start having babies so they can grow up together.”

“Cart and horses, Santana,” he replies, shaking his head as he kisses her and sends her on her honeymoon way.

Kurt shakes his head, but his imagination is already considering the color scheme that would best suit both Blaine and himself.

“May I have this dance?”

Blaine’s voice cuts through Kurt’s planning, and here he is, holding up one hand with one cream rose tucked behind his ear.

Kurt beams at him, before pulling a pink rose to mirror Blaine’s new attire. He hands over the bouquet to Santana’s little niece who apparently won Dani’s bouquet from Blaine already and who shrieks in delight when she gets his.

“Yes,” he replies, wrapping his arms around Blaine’s neck. “Yes, you may.”

Blaine puts his hands on Kurt’s back, and they stay slow-dancing there, on the grass in front of the venue where the party kicks back to life.

Not a bad way to end a stressful month, as far as Kurt is concerned.

And turquoise and purple would make for a wonderful wedding theme, wouldn’t it?

(It would, but Kurt won’t know for sure for another couple of years.)

_______________________________________________________________

(Should I add a small NSFW chapter?)

#sometimes i write #klaine au #dantana #wedding shenanigans #bridesmen #best #(you pick)#fluff

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sapphos-darlings · 4 years

Note

I promise this isn’t discourse I’m just confused. What do you mean by trans men that never left wlw spaces? Why should we welcome people who identify as men in our spaces?

Hey, Mod Sade here. Normally we wouldn’t answer any questions regarding who does and who doesn’t belong in the wlw community as per our discourse rule, but since I’m personally in this situation, I’ll give you the reason why I never disidentified from the wlw community despite my medical transition.

You see, being a specifically female man is very central to my identity. I have worked hard to accept my body and my history despite my dysphoria, and with that, the paths that I’ve walked to be who I am today, and I’ve reconciled them with the life and paths I wish I would have had instead. I view myself as a mix of two worlds rather than a firm resident of either one: I’ve lived as a woman and I’ve lived as a man and in the end I’ve settled on just living as myself rather than any preconceived notion of what I should be as a person or a member of a gender group.

I am a transitioned person, but my medical history does not define who I am as a human being. I grew up as a dysphoric girl who loved girls, and whose primary community was other girls who loved girls, and this is what shaped me as a person through my most crucial years of development. The fact that I am also dysphoric and medical transition was the best way for me to treat that dysphoria didn’t remove or kill who I was before I took those measures, it merely made me feel more at ease with myself. I tried distancing myself from women and women’s communities, but I very soon realised I neither fit in nor wish to fit in the male equivalents - my community has always first and foremost been with the women I grew up with, and with whom I share my experiences of attraction and relationships. I genuinely do not believe I share anything in common with natal men beyond the pattern my body hair grows in, and I have no desire to abandon my true connections to chase an outside ideal of what a trans man needs to be and who he needs to connect with to be “real” or “valid”. This is as much a trans reality as the opposite would be, where a trans man feels no connection whatsoever to the women in his life and considers himself completely apart from them and most alike with or the same as cis men. We’re not all painted with the same brush.

I’m sure I’m not alone with this. I know for a fact there are, for example, transitioned butch lesbians who technically are or even self-identify as trans men, but who also simultaneously identify as butch lesbians. We, as trans people, are a very diverse group of people from all walks of life with different experiences and needs, and for some of us, who we were prior to transition carries over to who we are after it, even if it doesn’t match the convenient (and most often heteronormative, sexist) idea of what we should be.

My attraction to women has never been heterosexual, and no amount of body hair or muscle strength will make a difference in how I experience that attraction and how my attraction is perceived by others (I am most certainly still viewed on the feminine spectrum by most, especially as I’m no longer taking testosterone for health reasons).

It’s very simple and safe to think of trans people as a monolith who all think and feel the same way, but it’s simply not true. It’s especially important to think of our needs, because for many of us, transition is not a choice, it’s a necessity. For those of us who are dysphoric, we have to treat that dysphoria, and in some cases that treatment is medical transition. It doesn’t change us as people, however. I was never reborn. I’m still the same person who grew up a wlw, and it will always be a major building block of who I am as a person, like a cornerstone of my identity and personal history that cannot be taken out of me.

I hope that clarifies the subject somewhat; I’ll pre-emptively close this conversation here for the sake of our no discourse rule and simply because my identity and life are understandably very intimate subjects to me, and I will not open them up for debate. Lastly, I can never speak for the whole community of wlw and most certainly not for the whole community of trans people, so naturally you or others may disagree with my views and the way I live my life. That’s ok.

#ask #mod sade

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cornwaiidesu · 4 years

Text

a boohoo-y deep dive into my ~psyche~ cuz I had A Moment at work yesterday :P

I care too much about what people think of me. plain and simple. I have been this way since I was a little girl. my cousins would pick on me because I was the special baby girl out of the three of us and they were the two older boys. they would pick on me for being shy and soft spoken and liking girl things, and I wanted them to like me because I thought the two of them were the coolest boys in the world, so I grew to be a little tomboy. I wanted to like fighting games, and anime, and comics because those were "boy things".

but then when puberty started to set in, being a tomboy wasn't cute anymore. at least according to the bullies I had in middle school. usually boys who would call me a d*ke and make fun of me for wearing baggy t-shirts and loose pants and my dad's army jacket every single day of my life. "girls are supposed to be feminine" so obviously something had to be *wrong* with me and they would speculate shit about me directly in front of me. try to engage me in the conversation just to rub it in and of course that made me feel like shit.

so then in high school I try to flip the switch again. I start wearing tighter fitting clothes. I grow my hair out because I was constantly being dogged on my hairstyle even tho that shit was kind of REVOLUTIONARY FOR A 12 YEAR OLD LIVING IN IOWA. PROPS TO TEENAGE MRH. even back then I was a little punk. :3c I digress tho.

the beginning of high school was when I started my curse that lives on in me. I wear earrings every day of my life and I do because I convinced myself back then that I would be mistaken for a boy otherwise. and I still hold that fear because it was upheld! I started wearing dresses and skirts to school, but it didn't matter because dudes would still flip me shit and say that I was a predatory lesbian and strip me of my femininity. adults would still call me young man and sir despite being a 16 year old wearing make up, denim skirts, earrings, and covered in beaded necklaces. I would wear SO much jewelry to try to get it through people's minds that I was a girl.

but then through that came another weird thing where, like, though I was dressing ~feminine~ I was still "one of the guys" because I had a crude sense of humor and still liked comics and anime and wasn't as, for lack of a better word, "delicate" as my other (white) female friends. but then AGAIN I *couldnt* be one of the guys because it was a secret special task force essentially and I was just a stupid girl.

a lot of that fucked up my sense of self with my sexuality growing up too. I knew at a fairly early age that I was bisexual even though I didn't know there was a word for it, but I didn't want to admit to liking girls because that would mean my bullies were right about me, and if they were right about that then what if they were right about all the other horrible stuff they said about me being hideous, and gross, and weird?

because! if that was right too! a boy would never fall in love with me and have dance sex with me like Johnny and Baby do in Dirty Dancing! or would never save me from being sacrificed like Rick saves Evie in The Mummy! I'd be alone forever because boys would think I was big ugly butch with no value to them, and girls would think I was a predator and would always have to be on their guard to make sure I wasn't gawking and fawning over them. (and let's not even GET into how my religion fucked up my sense of morality about this. I have since grown out of it at least.)

every person I ever confessed to having a crush on has turned me down (mostly politely though, thank god) in my life except for one and a half. (one said they also liked someone else as much as they liked me, and since I had no self-esteem at 18 I was like "oh that's cool. let's date anyway." because I just wanted to have a boyfriend. that's the half.)

the other we kind of connected right away, whirlwind romance for me, but I don't think they ever quite felt the same way and that ended in an actual divorce anyway.

I've had three "relationships" my whole entire life and no more than that, and in my head i told myself thag was because I am fat, and ugly, and MASCULINE, no matter how hard I tried to be sweet and charming and pretty.

as I've aged I've learned about the systematic de-feminization of black women since all the way back to slavery times and shit and I won't claim to be an expert about that shit but it makes me cry that it's just ingrained into people's minds. it doesn't give us a single fighting chance from birth. it makes me feel like I'm going to be a lonely freak for the rest of my life because iowa is like one of the whitest places in the world, and my own internalized racism has convinced me all my life that I don't belong in black spaces because I'm not "authentic", I'm watered down. I've been called a half-breed and an oreo so many times.

I can't be black, I can't be white, I can't be a boy, I can't be a girl. I'm a copper penny in a jar full of nickels and dimes. I don't look the same, I'm not the same shape, and im not as shiny.

though I am attracted to women I have this OBSESSION with men, and to have a relationship with a man as PROOF. SOLID PROOF. that I am a valid woman, because there seems to be no other way for me to get the point across. and it's important for me to get the point across because I grew up with my business being the punchline, and curiosity of my peers, and the concern of my family. I couldn't exist without speculation from someone.

and then came a moment last year while I was at work, where a co-worker told me something that a person in another department who I did not get along with had told them. that I was a mean, jealous bitch who wanted them "out of the way" because they were getting too close to my friend that also worked at our store, and I was obsessed and in love with her and trying to stop a relationship from forming between the two of them. and it made me sick to my stomach. it was the thing I had been trying to steer clear from, from the moment I knew I was bisexual, but I hadn't tried hard enough. my anxiety shot through the roof. I had a panic attack. I broke down sobbing in the bathroom. this person was vengeful, I had nothing to do with them or that friend anymore, and I hadn't for months but they wanted to spread this rumor about me. and even if I truthfully denied it like I did, it didn't matter, because a person could take one look at me an think "you know, I can see that." because that's what people thought my entire fucking existence.

I cried off and on the rest of the day. I was too sick to eat dinner. I barely slept. and then I ended up puking what little food I had to eat that night anyway. I still barely ate the following few days I stayed home from work because I still felt so sick to my stomach with anxiety and at one point I got faint-ish when I had finally returned to work, and had to have help to get to the breakroom and force myself to eat. I bawled to my step-mother about it all, that I didn't feel comfortable at work anymore because it was just my words against theirs, and my bosses never held the person accountable for any of the other bullshit that they caused anyway.

it took me a VERY. long time to move past this incident. I think the only thing that ever ended up fully distracting me from it was covid and my uncle and my father's health both taking a turn for the worst last June. and even then, in between, I had such loooow moments. I self harmed and wrote mean notes to myself, stayed in bed for days. I wrote my own suicide note just to feel better, even though I knew I'd never do it. I was too chicken, but I just wanted to write it and pretend, just to release the depression pressure in my brain.

I've since been better for the most part. I know my parents love me and that I'm important to them, when just a few years ago I used to claim that I was an orphan because I was convinced that my father and my step-mother never cared to see me again because I was an ungrateful brat. I still get very lonely and long for a significant other but I'm kind of just coming to terms with the fact that unless I put myself out there, it won't happen, and im just too insecure to take the steps.

yesterday though, just for a second, out of nowhere, I thought about the claim that person had made about me even though the atmosphere at work has since changed, and things are patched up between me and my friend.

that gossiper is irrelevant now, but I couldn't help but have a little meltdown about it anyway because. like. apparently that's the vibe that I give off. because that's what everyone has said about me from day one of my life. and. I just. have to keep dealing with it. I'm stuck like this. and it sucks. and that little thought about it reminded me again.

#long post #very long post #personal #ignore me

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fytheuntamed · 5 years

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Do you have any thoughts on why the novel might be so popular among lgbt people despite (sometimes quite obviously) being written by a straight women for straight women. I think this is quite evident in for example the sex scenes

Why do I think the novel is so popular amongst LGBTQ+ people despite being written by a straight woman for straight women? Simple! It’s a good story and the characters are complex and intriguing. No piece of media is ever perfect, so it simply comes down to whether an individual feels the positive aspects of the media outweigh the negative aspects of the media. Are there problematic aspects within the novel? Of course! But that doesn’t mean the novel as a whole should be disregarded. You can consume media while still being critical of it, just like you can like a character while acknowledging that they’re not a good person. LGBTQ+ people, like everyone else, value a good story and interesting characters, so even if there are aspects of the story that we dislike, we may still stick around if we think it’s worth it! Also, I think there’s a shortage of stories like “Mo Dao Zu Shi” where you have LGBTQ+ characters whose sexuality isn’t the focus of the story. Yes, Wangxian are soulmates and very much in love, but that isn’t the whole point. You have a delightful bundle of politics, magic, familial ties, concepts of right and wrong, mystery, etc etc that also features a beautiful love story between two men. I guess my point is, LGBTQ+ people are flawed just like everyone else and sometimes we consume content even if we don’t agree with every part of it.

I’ve avoided getting involved in any discourse surrounding the various versions of MDZS because I wanted to keep this blog drama free, however I would like to take this chance to offer my own thoughts on the “problematic” aspects of the novel. Before I get into it, I just want to make three things clear: 1) I’m white, 2) I’m not mlm, I’m a lesbian, and 3) I’ve only read the second half of the novel and honestly I can’t remember too much of the specifics. The relevance of my opinion on the matter, therefore, is limited and my words should be read with this fact in mind. I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts and feelings on this matter, so do feel free to either leave a comment or reblog and add your two-cents. All I ask is that we keep it respectful so this can continue to be an enjoyable space for all fans.

I’ve been going through the untamed’s tumblr tag daily since the start of this blog in August 2019, so I’ve seen the whole spectrum of opinions on this matter. Some people feel very strongly that some of the ways in which MXTX writes particular aspects of the novel are “problematic,” some people are indifferent, and others feel that criticism of MXTX’s writing comes from a lack of knowledge of Chinese culture (particularly LGBTQ+ Chinese culture). (I remember seeing a post touching upon this last matter, but I didn’t save it, so unfortunately I can’t link it.)

I think the two most common criticisms of the novel that I have come across pertain to matters of consent and the imposing of heteronormative concepts onto Wangxian. Again, I want to stress that I haven’t read the novel in its entirety and my memory of it is foggy. Talking about consent first, some felt the scene in the novel where LWJ kisses an unexpecting blindfolded WWX was a big no no, while others thought it was a very sweet, romantic scene. (To give context for those who have only seen the drama, this scene would have been placed in episode 25 had they included it). For this matter, I’m of the belief that consent is a must. Regardless of whether WWX enjoyed the kiss, the fact stands that no one is entitled to another’s body, and this is why consent is, in my eyes, non-negotiable. For those who have no problem with this scene, I do think it is worth considering how you would feel about this scene had it involved, say, Jin Zixuan kissing a blindfolded Jiang Yanli. If that had been the case, I do think the majority of readers would have found the scene in poor taste (I could be wrong, though!). I will say that the trope of the forceful kiss is extremely common and can be found in every genre; it’s definitely not restricted to LGBTQ+ couples. For the aforementioned reason, I don’t like the forceful kiss scenario irregardless of the genders of the people involved. I do think writing such scenes for LGBTQ+ couples in particular can perpetuate harmful stereotypes, particularly that LGBTQ+ people have no respect for personal boundaries and can’t control their physical desires. I think the situation is doubly bad if the person who is being kissed is “not yet gay,” because again, it perpetuates the idea of the big bad gay person and the innocent “straight” person who is at the whims of said big bad gay.

Moving on to WWX and LWJ’s sex life, I have seen multiple people in the tag mentioning WWX having a “rape kink” and their discomfort with this fact. Logically, I understand that we are all allowed, as human beings with different tastes and preferences, to enjoy the things that bring us pleasure (excluding certain obvious things). That being said, I do not personally enjoy rape fantasies in my media and try to stay far away from it. As I mentioned, we are all welcome to our own tastes and preferences, but I do think it is important that we realize that we are all also the product of our environments. Things, including kinks, do not exist in vacuums, and therefore they must arise as a result of some mixture of external and internal forces. Does MXTX giving WWX a rape kink automatically make her demon spawn? Not really. Does MXTX giving WWX a rape kink add anything to his character or the story? Also not really. All this being said, I do think LGBTQ+ media is oversaturated with consent issues and I’d personally like to see this come to an end, because once again, it perpetuates harmful stereotypes that do have a real impact on LGBTQ+ individuals.

As for the imposing of heteronormative concepts onto Wangxian, I think the biggest complaint I’ve seen is about WWX being referred to as the “mom” or the “wife” within the Wangxian couple. I would like to state here that this may be a situation in which cultural differences come into play. Additionally, because the novel is not originally written in English, it may be a case of telephone in which the true meaning becomes distorted as it is translated from one language to another and then to another and so on and so forth. Therefore, I am going to proceed with my thoughts on the matter in a more generalized way. For me, this is a big pet peeve of mine, to the point where I will not reblog content that refers to any of the male characters as “mom” or “wife.” My reasoning is simple: WWX is a man, so he would be someone’s “dad” or “husband,” not their “mom” or “wife.” I know from first-hand experience that non-LGBTQ+ people will often try to place a gay couple within a heterosexual context to make it easier for them to process how two women or two men could be together. I understand the reasoning behind this way of thinking, but that does not mean this way of thinking should be encouraged. It’s bad enough that non-LGBTQ+ couples are ensnared in an endless maze of gendered ways of being and thinking - let’s not force that on LGBTQ+ couples as well. My other issue is that the words “mom” and “wife” not only have gendered connotations, but they have implicit sexual connotations as well. In this context, “mom” and “wife” are just another way of saying “bottom.” Just think about it; nobody’s out there calling LWJ “mom” or “wife.” The whole idea of “top” and “bottom” in gay media is so……..it’s almost like an obsession? And for those of you who may be thinking it’s not that deep and has no bearing on real life….I really wish that were true. Go look at the comments section of any gay couple’s youtube video and you will invariably find someone asking who is the top and who is the bottom. That’s invasive as fuck, y’all, and you don’t see that shit on straight couple’s videos (again, because the assumption is that women are always in the submissive, therefore there’s no need to ask because it’s assumed the answer will always be that the woman “bottoms” and the man “tops”). All this being said, I can only speak about this matter from my viewpoint as a lesbian. If one day I were to get married, I wouldn’t want people referring to my wife as my “husband,” because the whole point is that we’re both the wife! I know there isn’t one rule/mindset that applies to all gay people, so I would love to hear others’ feelings on this matter.

Finally, I would also like to briefly touch upon Mo Xuanyu, who we don’t really get to see in the drama. I don’t know whether LWJ or WWX ever explicitly state their sexualities or which gender(s) they’re attracted to, but I’m pretty sure Mo Xuanyu is explicitly stated to be strictly into men (please correct me if I’m wrong!). I do wonder what MXTX’s intentions were (if there were any) when she decided to make Mo Xuanyu gay, because what I’ve grasped of his characterization is that he is written similarly to other gay male characters that give the impression they were created by checking off a list of every popular stereotype about gay men. I guess I’m just curious, as someone who knows very little about Mo Xuanyu, how others felt about his character in terms of complexity and stereotypes.

If you took the time to read all this, thank you! Let me know your thoughts~

#the untamed #mo dao zu shi #cql #mo xiang tong xiu #mxtx #long post #sorry this took me a while to respond to anon #i was away from home and also i knew it would end up being long so i wanted to have the time to properly answer you #ask #anon #Anonymous

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cowboyjen68 · 3 years

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Hi Jen,

I would appreciate some kind words and wisdom if you are up for it.

I started dating this girl who I knew from a great date a few years ago. In those few years I realized I'm butch and developed my identity a lot. I also had top surgery and low dose T to alleviate dysphoria, I hadn't dated anyone since that part. Before we met up I sent her a picture and she congratulated and complimented me. On the (second) first date I told her about my body things and it was also not a problem. Who I am is also the same woman she liked 3 years ago.

For multiple reasons things aren't going to work out between us. I really really liked her before we talked about it. One of her reasons for not wanting a relationship is that she's "just not that into butch women" or something. That shit hurt the most. She knew who I was before we dated. She affirmed me and showed a lot of attraction and affection at every step. I'll probably ask for some clarification about this preference in a few days when I'm less raw. It kind of seems like she was into having sex with a butch but not open to loving one eventually. I'm blindsided

My butchness has always seemed to be a perk for the women I'm dating, or at least the ones who don't want me are weeded out early on. I've been having an insecure couple of months anyway and this cut deep. I am proud of who I am and I will not compromise on that. I'm just hurt and angry and offended. Preferences are fine (not always), but she chased me. Then said this.

Thanks for reading ❤️

First, I am sorry you are hurting. Breaking up, even for good reasons is hard. She cares enough to be upfront with you and that is important to remember. She is not stringing you along or being vague about a possible future. This won't help the hurt but might take a tiny bit of the sting out of it.

Butches are often seen as more sexual or sexually "simple" than we are. We are not always understood to be as complex and diverse sexually and emotionally as we, as humans, actually exist. You say it seems she liked the idea of sex but not long term commitment. There might be a few things at play here. She might idealize your bedroom personality. In her mind you are supposed to be one way, perhaps aggressive, in control, strong handed etc and when you ended up being much more than that or different you no longer fueled that fantasy she was keeping.

Also, being in a relationship with a butch means to be more visible. We can't hide how we are perceived, whether that be as a lesbian or, falsely, like a man. That idea is scary to many women. Not just the fact that people see someone different but the idea that the relationship is viewed by others from a skewed lens. There is no hiding when walking into a room with a butch.

. She was likely not lying about liking you originally and thinking she would be okay with the changes you have made since then. First. emotionally you are different. You have embraced a part of you that you hadn't before. Your energy is stronger, more confident and that might be too much for her, too much of a change.

Physically you are changed. Again, she might have thought she was fine with this. Or thought she was supposed to be fine with it and tried to be. I don't know her or her community but there is often social pressure to try to be attracted to someone despite how they might have altered their body. It is frowned upon to admit we are sexual and physical beings and instead we are encouraged to hang everything on personality or other vague ideas of what we should be attracted to. Testosterone changes you, that is why you take it, to help change things to make you more comfortable. However, those changes can be too much for another person.

In the end you deserve to find someone who is mutually passionate about you just the are. You (and her) are worth finding a person whose body and mind make you tingle and smile at the mere thought of them. The hurt you feel now is worth going through and getting to the other side because you can then be open to finding love and shared attraction with a woman who is right for you. You won't be too much or too butch for the right woman and if she stayed with you it would be wasting time and energy you could be putting into love. True and kind love.

Healing butch hugs to you. Drink water, get sleep and let yourself be sad for a while.

#butch

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paroxetine-patty · 3 years

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came across another [metal][orientation] (got a nice ring to it huh, i think that’d actually make a great alternative label) blog just cause they keep tagging their posts with c///o///m/ph///e//t and uh

why do people care so much about labels. i know it sounds “sus” in todays climate, in fact ambiguously so, either anti-progressive (naively egalitarian) or way too radikweer, shroedinger style, lol

but in all honesty, sometimes i have to ask. yes i know from inside the social media bubble it’s perfectly logical that one must define and protect their oppressed identity and personal reality to the t

and at the same time... in the outside world, guess how many people, homophobes and lesbians alike, are gonna care if I 1) never had a crush on a man, 2) only ever kissed a man and had some cuddles but couldn’t get through with the sex, 3) got through with the sex but didn’t like it, 4) married a man and realized that I would be happier with a woman much later?

(you may guess which one is me irl. hint, it’s 2. I wish I stood closer to the left but that’s another issue and like hell I’m gonna blame or annoy Kinsey 6 homosexuals over it, I KNOW that’s my problem, and I should deal with it on my own.)

or how many women in my dating pool would care (like emotionally, engagingly) if I’m even bi or gay. yes yes this is really discouraging, I know, but in practice, at least in the circles I prefer, it really wouldn’t mean all that much. realistically. “oh but that’s erasure of xyz” - once the topic pops up in a conversation, it will matter to a respectful person, I promise. just like any other personal boundary. and though y’all wouldn’t believe me probably, I AM respectful of gs’ struggles and wouldn’t belittle them or compare them to mine for a bit. I actually tend to warn people about my trait and my past because I understand why and how it might matter for *someone* despite everything I’ve said above.

can’t see why I should deny my evident incapability to sleep with males in the meantime. believe me, if they’d come with a reliable explanation for my and many other women’s partially bisexual experience, I’d take it up and wouldn’t hog up the lesbian label. granted, when people independently accepted this general experience as not universally, but pretty characteristically gay, I was both relieved to learn so and confident to accept it myself without fear of offending anybody. now I see that might have been a dubious decision. so I’d like for another... path and community to exist, and my only problem is the lack of a proper term.

I don’t like bi lesbian mostly bc it’s another predominantly idealistic microlabel born out of the need to include more gender identities. I don’t like bi bc I’m not available to men however I might feel about them. calling myself lesbian while having a persistent romantic attraction to distant/virtual men is problematic, I agree with that. in the end, I prefer late bloomer lesbian and comphet lesbian. this could’ve been offensive but luckily this makes the community self-excluded since gs already equate these with “bisexual” and use them interchangeably - while keeping the lesbian label which in the end is, like it or not, is MORE fitting and descriptive than bi, at least for my own sexuality.

PS although my “peak trans” has been cotton ceiling rhetoric + having hard time accepting cis and trans lesbian experience as one, and it also incidentally led me to understand gs’s point which I’d still be missing otherwise - my own liminal state is also what makes me empathize with trans women who call themselves lesbians (with some understandable reservations eg obvious fetishists). not bc “it’s only fair” or “everyone is valid” but bc my point of reference might not be your point of reference, but we all can recognize when each of us has no other choice, so to speak, when our respective languages are forced by our realities to name the latter a certain way. i don’t believe in universal acceptance of labels for everybody exactly because languages and priorities within one’s reality differ from group to group. but i believe in internal logic of one’s unique mortal existence. you may hate me (or anyone else), I may too, but when I’m one on one with my fleeting life, I can’t see the point in not (keeping on, beside my choice) being a lesbian and not knowing I am one just because I am, objectively, not the cookie-cutter, platonic idea of one. it’s just that simple. and I know you feel the same about your own Self. yet the struggle will continue because language is always more crude when reality, and splitting hairs doesn’t make it better sometimes.

and this is okay. I hope.

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saybees · 4 years

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Some rather personal and tmi stuff, but I feel like I need to get it out somewhere and I don’t have anyone I really feel I can talk to about this now. It’s very long.

I’d like to start by saying that if you’re reading this please don’t tell me to just dump him. It isn’t that simple and it just isn’t helpful to say that to me.

So Jon and I have had issues in the past with porn. Jon has a porn addiction. I didn’t discover this until maybe a year into our relationship when I walked into the bathroom one day and he was watching porn and masturbating. At first I was more shocked than anything and didn’t know how to react, but it quickly turned into feeling really hurt.

I tried to talk to him about it and told him that it bothered me that he was doing that and it made me feel like I wasn’t good enough and our sex was too boring for him. It made me feel so inadequate that he had to go somewhere else for that stuff. He didn’t see the issue with it and because porn has become so normalized in our society and he has maintained that he doesn’t understand why it’s an issue for me, despite that I have explained to him many times that it really bothers me and makes me feel shitty. It feels like cheating.

Eventually I asked him to leave the bathroom door open when he goes in there because I didn’t really trust him. That didn’t stop him, however, and he continued to masturbate to porn in the bathroom even though the door was cracked open. I caught him and was really upset. It hasn’t happened again since I caught him with the door open.

I can’t even count how many times we have had this conversation/argument. It just hurts a lot and I really am so tired of having this talk with him. I asked my therapist that I used to see if I was being unreasonable and she said I wasn’t. She fully agreed with me that I wasn’t asking too much of him to stop doing it.

He doesn’t do it at home anymore, but I’m pretty sure he does when he’s at work. He’ll take a washroom break and very likely will do it then because he accidentally let it slip recently that he still masturbates. He tried very hard to redirect and I pretended I didn’t notice, but it’s been eating at me.

It wouldn’t bother me so much if he didn’t have a porn problem. I just feel like he doesn’t find me attractive or sexy. We don’t have sex very often at all and I pretty much always have to initiate it, which reinforces those feelings that I’m not what he wants. I don’t feel sexy enough or pretty enough and I’ve always had issues with feeling like I have an ugly face so this really makes it worse.

He used to follow lots of Instagram models, but has since unfollowed a lot of them, although there are still two at least that I’m pretty sure are Instagram models. Their accounts are private and I’m not going to follow them to find out what’s up. I’ll only hurt my own feelings even more than I did just going through the list of people he follows on Instagram.

I know I should talk to him about it again, but I am just so sick of having this conversation with him. Neither of us want to talk about it. He doesn’t want to because he feels guilty about it (obviously, since he has been hiding it) and I don’t want to talk about it anymore because the whole thing just makes me feel so terrible.

There was one incident where Jon had downloaded Tinder behind my back and he was showing me something on his phone when a notification popped up and it turned into me feeling like he was cheating and I cried and then he cried and it was a whole thing. He deleted it and hasn’t done anything like that since, but he didn’t include on his profile that he was in a relationship and wouldn’t give me an explanation as to why and he just wouldn’t say much other than that he wanted to make friends and talk to people, but it was just horrible and traumatic for me and for some reason I let him convince me that he was genuine and I stayed, although I really question that decision sometimes because it still deeply bothers me and I’m not entirely convinced he wouldn’t cheat on me after that. I just have a very hard time trusting him after the Tinder thing and the porn stuff. And I just feel like we didn’t really get to the bottom of that whole issue, but it feels like it was too long ago to talk about it again despite that it still bothers me.

I know we have to talk about it more, but I just don’t want to fucking do this anymore. I’m exhausted.

We might be moving to a different place in town here at some point and if he does end up buying another house I’m going to have to talk to him about this and if he isn’t willing to give up porn completely then I won’t be moving with him and I’ll stay in our current rental and we will be done because I know I will not be happy being with him for the rest of our lives if he can’t quit porn and I’ll always have to worry about it.

I did some googling and found countless articles of women (and others) saying they felt shitty that their men/partners watched porn behind their backs. So many other people who feel the same as I do and have been damaged by this kind of thing. It’s good to know I’m not alone in this, but it’s so terrible that so many people feel like this. It hurts a lot.

I’ve done some light research on the negative effects of porn and it really does seem to be very harmful, particularly for relationships. And I know he has been watching porn since he was very young, he’s talked to me about it before. I do truly believe porn is incredibly harmful and it is FAR too easy to get access to it. I feel like porn has hurt our relationship and our sex life a lot.

For our anniversary one year I even did a boudoir shoot by myself at home and made him a little book with sexy photos of me and gave it to him and he said he loved it, but he hasn’t looked at it since I gave it to him. That’s a real punch to the gut.

There was one other incident where our one friend, a lesbian, sent him and a few others a snapchat video of her making out with another girl that he used to hang out with when they were younger and they weren’t wearing tops (this girl is wild and does all kinds of stupid shit when she drinks, which is all the time) and he saved it for later. I found out because she had called him crying because someone she sent it to recorded it and sent it around to other people and everybody found out about it and this other girl had a boyfriend, but anyway he told me what was going on and he went to pull it up to show me, but she had deleted it and he told me he had saved it. I asked why and at first he lied and said he saved it so she could see it later and maybe think about what she had done, but I saw through that pretty quick. Eventually he admitted to me that he had fantasized about a threesome with those two girls and that’s why he saved it. This was not too long ago. Like late 2020. I was mad and needed some time to think and told him we would talk about it, but eventually I just told him that I didn’t want to have this discussion again (which I shouldn’t have done because I let him off the hook basically) and that if he felt like he needed to hide something from me that should be enough to know he shouldn’t be doing it in the first place. With that he said okay and we never talked about it again.

I just feel like I’m putting a lot into this relationship and he isn’t being considerate of me here. He makes excuses as to why he feels like he has to get off all the time and that it helps him wake up in the mornings or that he functions better once he’s done it (untrue, he functions the same no matter what) and it drives me up a wall that he will choose that over having sex with me?????? Like, hi hello I am a human woman(adjacent) and I am willing to have sex with you literally whenever you want!!!!!! And you’ll still choose watching porn and jerking off instead??????????????????????! Yeah, I totally feel like you want me. I totally feel loved and feel like you find me attractive. Yep. You watch porn of women who are a million times more beautiful and sexy than I will ever be and they do things I could never do or just don’t want to do and you’ll choose that over ME and tell me that you do think I’m attractive and sexy and that you love me, but you hardly actually prove that to me.

He doesn’t call me pretty unless I basically ask him to, which sucks because if I ask for the compliment it doesn’t feel real, but if I don’t ask I’ll never hear it. He is quite affectionate with me generally, cuddling up and stuff, holding my hand sometimes when driving, that type of stuff, but I almost never hear him, unprompted, tell me I’m pretty.

I don’t know, it just really bothers me and of course I have to be feeling like this right in the morning when I have a ton of school work I should do. I just feel really sad now. I don’t know how to handle this anymore. I don’t know who to go to for advice. My best buddy Ryan is having kinda the same issue with his girlfriend, but they both watch porn (they don’t live together like Jon and I do) and she has been feeling insecure about Ryan’s porn habits, but she also watches porn and I know they had a talk about it all the other day, but I don’t feel like it’s any of my business to ask how it went or anything because it just straight up isn’t, but Ryan is who I have primarily talked to about this whole thing and he’s been very sympathetic to me about it and idk I just don’t know what to do or who to turn to. The last time I talked to my therapist it was about this whole thing and she basically told me to do my own research and that she didn’t have anything else to say to me about it (because we had talked about it multiple times) and that felt really shitty and like I wasn’t allowed to still be having this issue so I stopped going to her and haven’t seen anyone else since.

I love him a lot, I really do, and we get along really well, usually, but this just hurts a lot and I know I should never have put up with as much as I have. I should have set more boundaries and been firmer with them. It feels so fucking bad that he’s done this time and time again and gone behind my back with this shit and I keep talking to him about it and it keeps happening.

I’ve mostly avoided talking about this here because it feels so personal and gross and like I shouldn’t talk about it (that’s that Christian guilt). I hate that society makes sex and related issues to be such a dirty topic and that we can’t talk about it because I feel really alone and shitty about this. I try to push it down and ignore it, but it’s so hard to do and I’m just really sad...

#personal #this whole thing makes me feel so fucking bad #i'm really sad rn #this whole thing makes me so anxious and i just don't want to deal with it at all anymore #but i know i need to because it'll just keep eating away at me if i don't deal with it

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what-if-rpg · 4 years

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Welcome to the family, KATT! Your application for FRANNIE FABRAY was accepted, as well as the changes. I am really happy to give you your third, and last character! Make sure to read the beginners checklist, and remember, have fun! I can’t wait to roleplay with you! Have fun!

IN CHARACTER

CHARACTER NAME: Francine “Frannie” Grace Fabray CHARACTER AGE & DATE OF BIRTH: 38 & January 4th OCCUPATION: Lawyer FACE CLAIM: AJ Cook HOMETOWN & CITY WHERE LIVES NOW: Lima, Ohio & New York, NY SEXUAL ORIENTATION & GENDER: (Closeted) Lesbian & Cis-Female RELATIONSHIP STATUS: Single POSITIVE TRAITS: hardworking , benevolent , adaptive NEGATIVE TRAITS: distant , argumentative , sarcastic CHARACTER QUOTE/LYRIC: “I think almost everyone tries hard to be good and just finds out too late they should have tried softer.“

HEADCANONS

Frannie Fabray was always her parents’ so-called “golden” child. She was the bar upon which her younger sister was measured. Smart, well rounded, the kind of child that never put up too much fuss and did as she was told with ease. An athlete and a scholar, it seemed that whatever she tried, she did well. It was all surface level, however, but she never let it show. Frannie skipped a grade early in her schooling and nearly skipped a second grade going into high school, but chose not to. Either way, she was the head cheerleader, a soccer star, debate team captain, and excelled in every aspect of school and life that she tried, except for relationships. In fact, she seemed completely disinterested in boys and relationships. She was a devout Christian and claimed that she saw no reason in letting boys even begin to be a temptation.

After graduating high school, Frannie left home for college, eventually getting into Harvard’s law school. She did her best to keep up with her family, but her schooling was always her first priority. In fact, the longer she was at college, the less she heard from her family and the less she went home. She was working on her own well being and destroying the parts of herself that her parents had built up.

While in law school, Frannie had a mental breakdown. She’d been struggling massively with everything and it led to her nearly ending up in a psychiatric hospital. She was diagnosed with ADHD and started therapy to help deal with it, as well as the anxiety, depression, and other issues that came up because of it. She also began to get help for an eating disorder that had been plaguing her since her early childhood. It did wonders for her and she managed to pull through her law degree with flying colors.

When it was discovered that her father had cheated, Frannie wasn’t at all surprised. What she was surprised by was her mother actually bothering to divorce him. It was during a conversation with her mother, about Russell, that Frannie learned that Quinn had gotten pregnant and subsequently kicked from the family home, but that Judy had since welcomed her back into the home. It was one of the last conversations Frannie had with her mother for a number of years, angry that the older woman had even let it happen in the first place. She may not have really known her younger sister, but the idea of her parents kicking the girl out for a simple mistake, one that the lack of sex ed and general taboo nature of sex had certainly helped cause.

While Frannie was gaining work experience in the District Attorney’s office, and working on a secondary degree in criminal justice, she met a man by the name of Elijah Griffin. He was the first man she’d ever been remotely interested in, in a romantic way, and they dated for a few years before he proposed and she said yes. They were engaged for nearly five years before they actually decided upon a courthouse wedding. Their relationship was, like much in Frannie’s life, very surface level. They went on dates, held hands, but even after they married they often slept in separate beds in the home they shared. In fact, their first time, and of of their only times, having sex didn’t come until they’d been married for 3 years. They were hoping it would spark something between them, but all it really resulted in was Frannie getting pregnant and later giving birth to their son, Alexander.

It took about a year after Alexander was born before they both decided to try and experiment with their sexuality, given neither had ever had much interest in the opposite sex and their own relationship seemed to be built on trying to conform to heteronormative expectations of parents with dreams of perfect children. The pair entered what was, essentially, a polyamorous relationship, using it as a cover for what they were really doing. About a year later, they both came to the realization that they were gay and agreed to divorce in order to pursue relationships that could actually be beneficial to them both. Frannie got full custody of Alexander, with a promise that he could spend summers with Elijah, and that Elijah was free to visit and have him when he wanted, within reason. Unlike Elijah, Frannie chose to remain in the closet, needing extra time to come to terms with what it meant for her. Being gay had never been in her plans. The plans she’d made so carefully and remade every few years to better fit her ambition.

Around the time Elijah and Frannie opened their relationship, Frannie learned from her mother that Russell hadn’t just cheated, he’d had an entire separate family. With everything going on in her own life, Frannie did nothing with the information provided to her, but did allow for her information to be given to any of her half-siblings looking to connect. When Juliette made contact, Frannie wasn’t sure what to do, but she did her best to be kind and to connect with the younger woman. It, somewhat unfortunately, poked at old wounds Frannie had involving Quinn and the regrets of never having reached out, now that both were adults. It was in learning that both Quinn and Juliette were in New York that Frannie’s plans for her own law firm changed. She had originally planned to open it in Boston, but with her divorce finalized and Elijah’s blessing, she set her sights on New York, instead. As of Frannie’s 38th birthday, she’d moved to New York, successfully started her own firm, and landed her first major case.

CONNECTIONS

Judy Fabray (Mother): Frannie’s relationship with her mother was always one based on her looks and her place in society. It was never something she held close and in time, much like her relationship with her father, began to fall apart. The only time she has spoken to her mother in recent years was when Judy told her about Russell’s other family. Russell Fabray (Father): Frannie’s relationship with her father was one based somewhat entirely on her being perfect. A fragile thing that she slowly learned wasn’t healthy for her and is, in part, why she became more and more distant from her family the longer she was away from home. It almost came as no surprise to Frannie that her father was a cheater and had an entirely separate family. Quinn Fabray (Sister): Frannie and Quinn never really got on. Between the age difference and Frannie being the bar against Quinn was measured, no real relationship was capable of forming and by the time Frannie had completely distanced herself from their parents, any hope of a relationship between them disappeared. Frannie has considered reaching out to Quinn, but still hasn’t done so. Avery & Daniel Fabray (Half-Siblings): Frannie hasn’t actually met them but has no ill will towards them, if anything, she feels bad for them, also having Russell as a father. Juliette Fabray (Half-Sister): When Juliette reached out to Frannie, the older woman did her best to return it in kind. To be open to the possibility of forming some sort of relationship. It’s a work in progress, with neither really opening up too much, but it’s more of a relationship than Frannie has with any of her other family. Elijah Griffin (Ex-Husband): Elijah and Frannie were together for a number of years. He was the only man she ever really held any possible romantic interest in, or so she believed, so she clung to that for as long as she could. A number of years after they were married, they both realized that there was a possibility they weren’t attracted to each other. They both ended up finding out they were gay and when Elijah was ready to come out, they divorced. He is still the only person who knows, for sure, that she’s a lesbian. Alexander Fabray-Griffin (Son): Alexander is the only person Frannie would ever give up her career for. He is her entire world and as much as she hates that he was born into a family that ultimately couldn’t stay together, she doesn’t regret having him. He is the best parts of both her and Elijah and all she really hopes is that she raises him in such a way that he never has to do the kind of recovering from his childhood the way she did.

#Frannie Fabray #Accepted #Glee RP #Glee RPG #RP #RPG

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