#i hate this church i hate the trauma it has given us i hate that it has been passed down from generation to generation

[lamanwasright]

Screaming crying throwing UP RIGHT NOW thinking about all my queer ancestors that I'll never know about because we are generationally mormon so any hint at all of them being queer would have been shoved under the rug and their story would have been told differently when it was added to our genealogy I'm sorry they did that to you I'm sorry you're known only as this sanitized version of yourself and god the only times I wish there was an afterlife is when I think of meeting you as real family

[fellthemarvelous]

Aziraphale hate makes my brain hurt.

Like let's be really fuckin' for real here.

Neurodivergent fans have repeatedly said that Aziraphale is autistic coded. I agree with them. I have never been diagnosed but I wonder about myself. If only I could get a doctor to take me seriously enough to test me for it, but alas, I'm a 43-year-old woman living in the good ole US of A.

Those with religious trauma have repeatedly said that they identify with him as well. I'm one of those people. I endured 12 years of Catholic schools and just as much time being taught a very black and white view of things that I've had to spend more than 20 goddamn fucking years working to unlearn.

I find that my views as a survivor of religious abuse are often dismissed because people keep wanting to say "Aziraphale doesn't have religious trauma." Yes, thank you, I get that, but unless you've been indoctrinated and brainwashed into a very black and white view of the world, you probably don't understand the kind of feelings Aziraphale's onscreen experiences evoke in so many of us. Heaven might not be real, but the feelings of "God is always watching" still stick with me today even though I no longer believe in God. I have entirely denounced Christianity because of my own personal experience, and I refuse to allow people to try and guilt me or shame me for trauma that I didn't ask for. I wasn't given a choice.

As a child I was told that God was real and always watching everything you do (just like Santa Claus) and can hear everything you say and knows everything you are thinking. Do you know what I learned to do in order to cope with this overwhelming and anxiety-inducing information as a small child? I learned to censor my thoughts. I never spoke up, and I have always felt like I was putting on a show for people because I had to be who I was told to be or I would get into trouble.

Aziraphale said "poverty is a virtue" during The Resurrectionists, and as someone who grew up in the Bible belt and went to private schools, I was taught this very same shit by the Catholic church. He learned in that very same episode that "poverty is a virtue" is actually a tool of oppression to keep the poor poor and the wealthy wealthy. I know we all watched the episode. He went into that episode believing what he said, but by the end of it he knew it was actually utter bullshit. Aziraphale is not ignorant. He's highly intelligent, and he has never been too proud to admit when he has been wrong. He accepts that the information he learned before is not matching up with reality.

And it's so obvious some of you have zero experience with that type of indoctrination because of how very little empathy you show Aziraphale for his "mistake" of "choosing Heaven over Crowley" and "making Crowley sad" so clearly Aziraphale must somehow be "abusive" and "manipulative" and "selfish" and "self-centered" because he didn't choose to run away with Crowley at the end of season two.

First of all.

FIRST OF ALL...

Aziraphale has a mind of his own.

Aziraphale is always going to try and do what is right.

Aziraphale is an angel. He's a being of love. And the reason he's so "bad" at being an angel is because he actually wants to protect humanity. He has always loved humanity. He repeatedly has to contend with what is "right" versus what is "good" and "wrong" versus "evil". Yeah, he has flaws. He's an angel, not a goddamn fucking saint. He has lived on Earth for more than 6,000 years. He has seen everything. He loves doing human things.

He's obsessed with magic. It makes him so happy. He's not very good at it...well not when he's trying to put on a show for Crowley.

He chose to learn French the hard way, so even though he knows every single language in the world, he chooses to be mediocre at French. Something that annoys and amuses Crowley at the same time.

He loves to dance even though angels aren't supposed to dance, and dancing with Crowley was what he wanted the most.

He owns a bookshop and refuses to sell any of his books because they are books he's had for as long as there have been books. He will chase customers away from his collection, and Crowley understands how much they mean to Aziraphale because he refuses to sell any when Aziraphale leaves him in charge.

He and Crowley have been speaking to each other in coded language for more than 6,000 years. They have to be very careful about what they say because Heaven and Hell are always watching.

Heaven has photographs of Crowley and Aziraphale sitting or standing together throughout history. Hell had one photo of Crowley and Aziraphale actually working together and it was Aziraphale's quick thinking and how good he actually is at sleight of hand tricks that managed to get that photo out of Furfur's hands so he wouldn't be able to turn Crowley over to the Dark Council.

Aziraphale saved Crowley from being taken to Hell again. He wasn't able to save Crowley from Hell in Edinburgh, but he sure as heck managed to save Crowley from Hell during WWII. He took Crowley to his bookshop and showed Crowley that he stole the picture from Furfur. He saved Crowley.

You get that, right?

Aziraphale SAVED Crowley.

People always talk about how it's "always Crowley saving Aziraphale" because apparently heroic acts are only heroic when they are grand gestures. The sleight of hand wasn't heroic at all, am I right? It wasn't sparkly and showy. It wasn't interesting enough, therefore not heroic. At least that's all I'm hearing when people start with their "blah Aziraphale deserves to suffer because I have no imagination or ability to understand the media in front of me blah", and all these reasons he deserves to suffer is because Crowley almost got hurt.

Aziraphale did that without flinching and I watch that part closely every single time. He's not scared for himself. He's scared for Crowley, and he managed to hold onto that photograph. He did not fail Crowley. He protected Crowley.

And so here's another thing that we like to point out. The way that Aziraphale, an angel who is effeminate and male presenting, an angel who is soft and full of love, an angel who is kind and forgiving because he has empathy and compassion, is somehow painted as abusive and manipulative. He's not violent, but he could easily fuck up your world. He doesn't use his powers. We have no idea how powerful he is because we only ever see him do small acts. He's used to hiding. It's the only way he has ever been able to protect Crowley.

And I'm not saying that Aziraphale has actually saved Crowley before means that Crowley hasn't also saved Aziraphale. Like, you get that those are not mutually exclusive and their relationship is not transactional, right? They have spent their entire existence protecting each other but never actually getting to be together because Heaven and Hell are always watching.

Yeah, Crowley fell. We all know this. We are aware of this. He was the serpent of Eden. He gave humanity the knowledge of free will.

But what we don't talk about is what Aziraphale gave humanity.

What did he give them?

We all know what it is!

Let's say it together!

He gave Adam and Eve his flaming sword because it was dangerous outside the garden and Eve was pregnant and she was already having a really bad day. He showed them compassion and gave them his extremely powerful angelic weapon so they would stand a chance on the outside of the garden. He gave humanity the gift of compassion. It's just unfortunate that his flaming sword became a weapon of War.

And then what did he do after that?

Ooooh, yeah, that's right.

God asked him about it and he straight up lied to her and pretended he had no idea where he'd managed to misplace it. She didn't say anything after that. He told Crowley the truth though. He told Crowley the truth even though Crowley fell.

Yeah, we know Aziraphale has done some really fucking questionable things. He and Crowley both suck at passing for human in front of observant people like Nina. They're not human. They are still learning, but they managed to experience human history together despite being on opposite sides and their experiences with humanity are what has shaped them into the compassionate and loving duo they are now. One of them is not better from the other.

This, my friends, is what we call meeting in the middle. It's why shades of gray is so important. Aziraphale constantly breaks the rules. Crowley refused to play by Heaven's rules. It's the reason he fell. He doesn't play by Hell's rules either. These two dorks figured out how to cancel each others' miracles out throughout human history in order to have more time learning about humanity and each other because working all day every day sucks when there are so many new things to learn and experience with the people you love.

We know Crowley and Aziraphale both love each other. Neither of them are good at hiding the hearts stars in their eyes.

But here's what's really fucking annoying about the Aziraphale hate.

Aziraphale was already crying when Crowley grabbed him and kissed him. Aziraphale is trying so very hard to do the right thing. He loves Crowley. He does. But he also has a duty to humanity, and he has taken that job very seriously since the creation of Adam and Eve. He sent them out into the world with a flaming sword so they would have a chance at surviving beyond the walls of the garden.

And he knows that Something Terrible is going to happen and he spent all of second season trying to figure out what that Something Terrible was while trying to have some sort of more honest and open relationship with Crowley, but again, they aren't human, they are a demon and an angel approaching life from opposite sides who met in the middle and fell in love with humanity together.

He wants more than anything to tell Crowley how he feels about him, but he wants to do something grand for Crowley because Crowley has always been grand and dramatic and sexy and a little bit scary.

Crowley is impulsive and has a temper and sometimes says the wrong thing but he has always trusted Aziraphale because Aziraphale gave him a chance even after he fell. Aziraphale chose to shelter him instead of smiting him while they stood on top of that wall. He knew he was supposed to kill Crowley, but oops, he gave his sword away to the humans so he didn't really have anything to kill him with and Crowley is the one who created nebulas. The Pillars of Creation is Crowley's work and Aziraphale was there to witness that, but he watched Crowley more than he watched the nebula. He witnessed the pure joy on Crowley's face when he said "let there be light" as a nebula full of colors exploded before their eyes. He was fascinated by Crowley.

But Aziraphale is going back to Heaven even though he has made it perfectly clear he absolutely has no desire to go back to Heaven. He told the Metatron this during their conversation. He spoke these words out loud. They exist.

But then The Metatron said this....

The Metatron. The very same angel who told Aziraphale in season one "to speak to me is to speak to the Almighty." He's the boss. He's the big guy. He's used to existing as a giant head and he had to give himself a body so he wouldn't stand out on Earth. And he knows that Aziraphale and Crowley have been working together since the beginning. He knows they worked together to prevent Armageddon in season one, and now he's made it clear he knows they were working together long before that. And let's face it, Aziraphale really wants to know what this Something Terrible is that Gabriel is running from so he can try to prevent it from happening.

It makes sense that he would want to take Crowley to Heaven with him because he would be able to keep Hell from getting their hands on him again. Aziraphale hates it in Heaven. He doesn't want to go, but Something Terrible is happening and Metatron isn't taking no for an answer, and maybe Heaven won't be so bad if Crowley is there with him. At least they can fix Heaven together.

But Crowley can't go back. We all get that. We don't blame him for saying no. It doesn't change anything.

Something Terrible is about to happen and Aziraphale has to figure out what it is. He wants to change Heaven.

He is fully aware that Heaven sucks. He still has faith in God. His faith isn't in Heaven. He deserted his platoon in season one and threw himself back to Earth so he could figure out how to make sure the war between Heaven and Hell doesn't happen.

But see, here's the thing. Heaven is at the top. Heaven has all the resources. Heaven is responsible for the creation of Hell. Heaven is empty and Hell is overpopulated. Aziraphale knows this. Crowley knows this. It's obvious every time we see either place. Both sides are desperate to go to war and will not hesitate to destroy humanity in the process. This is the opposite of what Crowley and Aziraphale want for humanity. If anyone can change Heaven, it's Aziraphale. He's the only one up there who gives a shit about humanity as far as we know. No one else is going to speak on humanity's behalf.

Some of us are so busy getting mad at Aziraphale for going back to Heaven and giving Crowley a Big Sad. Newsflash: Crowley is not the main character of Good Omens. Aziraphale and Crowley are equals, yet we wanna hold Aziraphale to higher standards because he's an angel, and when he makes mistakes it's proof that he's the bad guy.

Holy mother of all things that trigger my religious trauma, let me tell you. I spent my entire life hating myself every time I made mistakes. I've had to teach myself that just because I mess up sometimes doesn't mean I'm bad. It means I'm human. I still struggle with it. I probably always will. So when you say that Aziraphale deserves to be punished for breaking Crowley's heart, you not only ignore that Aziraphale's heart is also broken, you're saying he deserves to be punished for doing what he thinks is right.

Wanting to change Heaven for the better is not a bad thing.

And some of y'all wanna see him suffer for going back into the lion's den that is Heaven, knowing that he is already an outcast, that they have already tried to kill him once, knowing that he is a deserter, that he has been lying to Heaven about a lot of things, and you still think he's blinded by Heaven? You think he's just so naive and that's the only reason he's going back. He doesn't show his emotions the same way Crowley does so it means he doesn't care as much. He's expected to consider Crowley's feelings over his own when making choices. Like holy shit if all of that hasn't defined my experience as a woman with religious trauma in this fucking society. He's expected to be subservient to Crowley and if he doesn't do what Crowley wants then he's being unreasonable and illogical.

What the actual fuck, y'all.

Like seriously.

I'm sick of this bullshit. I had to step away from this fandom because of how toxic some people in this fandom are. It's not chasing me away, but the fact that I chose to hang out in a a more toxic fandom that is already notorious for being really toxic over a fandom that claims to be more open-minded and welcoming should probably tell you something.

It gave me a lot of perspective, and yeah, I'm still gonna speak up against the bullshit Aziraphale hate.

People are entitled to their opinions, but the Aziraphale hate isn't an opinion. It's just ableist, misogynistic garbage. At this point we all know y'all say these extreme things about Aziraphale because y'all get more joy out of the harm and alienation it is causing others.

Keep being loudly wrong, but if you think I'm not entitled to challenge shitty-ass, harmful, hateful discourse, bite my ass.

I'm not the one who lost the plot in this fandom.

[artist-issues]

Your words and your posts have been incredibly disheartening for me to see. My mother left the church. She is not an apostate, but she did question the church’s teachings in secret. She completely left faith when I was born. I have congenital heart defects, which I was born with. I nearly died on the operating table. For this reason, my mother and I do not believe in God, who is said to be all-powerful and all-benevolent. My mother is a wonderful person. She risked her life in the Covid-19 pandemic as she works at a hospital. If anyone deserved to live in an eternal paradise, it would be her. Your LGBTQ+ views have also upset me. My oldest friend, who I have known since before I could even remember, is transgender and gay, and have been more supportive to me as a disabled person than any Christian has been. I’m only 18 years old, yet I know that you chose faith over experiences with the wonderful parts of humanity. Respectfully, please reconsider your views on gay and trans people.

I truly appreciate how thoughtfully and respectfully you typed out this message. It is clear that these matters mean a lot to you and I'm going to go ahead and assume that you aren't speaking out of any kind of hate.

I would just offer you a counter-perspective, and maybe by understanding where I'm coming from, you can see that I'm not speaking out of any kind of hate for people, either. I'm half blind. I was born that way. My twin sister and I were taken by emergency cesareans-section when we were incredibly, dangerously premature. My twin was given no chance of survival; the cesarean was just meant to give me a 50% chance of survival. At the time, my mother was recently married to a 19 year-old drug dealer after her own father abused and abandoned her and her mother. She'd been living apart from the faith for years, rejecting God to follow the occult or whatever political party had hear heart at the time. My father hated God.

But when my sister and I were fighting for life for weeks on end, and nobody was sure if we would live or die, and they had to bring us home with heart monitors because our hearts would literally stop beating several times a night, my mom realized how helpless she was to do anything to save us. And she prayed. And we lived. Both of us. Not only that, but my father, at 19 years old, addicted to drugs since the age of 13, narrowly escaped death and gave his life to Christ. After a whole life of having no social skills unless he was high, doing whatever he wanted to whoever he wanted, and caring about nothing but himself, now he is a Pastor (bi-vocationally; he is also a tradesman working with his hands) and has given me and all my family, and many other families, everything we have in our lives through his dedicated and faithful life. He and my mother have been happily married and serving God with their whole lives for almost thirty years now.

And not only them, but me, my twin sister, my younger sister, my little brother, my grandfather (who was an actual killer and drug addict as well) we all know God. We all have a relationship with Him. And that's the biggest most wonderful gift He gave us, out of all those wonderful things He did for us. Saving my life, my dad's life, my twin's life, changing who they were and making them new people.

I'm not telling you all that to like, compare disabilities or traumas or whatever. That would be ridiculous for lots of reasons. But I'm just trying to be honest.

It's not a religion or a system of beliefs that I've subscribed to. It's not a social flag I live under. It's not something I do just because my parents or the people in my immediate community have shown me. It's because He's real, and He showed Himself to me—when it's just me and Him, and nobody else's opinion or say-so matters— and it's all really true—everything the Bible says. And He's so much better, and so much more benevolent, than anyone on earth can describe to you.

And, at the same time, when you understand who He is, and who we are...the question isn't "how could a good God let anyone go to Hell instead of paradise?" The question is, "how could He let any of us live after what we did?" It's hard. But seriously, just play pretend with me for a bit, if only to "understand my perspective." Pretend there was a God, all-powerful, endlessly loving, in fact, Love Itself. The love that was His very nature spilled out so much that He created—created beautiful, amazing, complex creatures who were intrinsically full of worth and light, and made to reflect Him, that Love, back to Him, and share in it. A big happy family.

And then those creatures from the dirt committed cosmic treason and said "screw You, I don't care if You created me and I don't care if You love me or want to be in relationship with me: I want to be You. I want to call the shots." And those creatures from the dirt basically did the cosmic version of climbing in their father's lap to spit in His face, and go stab each other over fleeting pleasures in the gutter because the mansions He was offering them wasn't as good as pretending they could be gods of their own lives.

That's the story. Thats what happened. Read Genesis, if you have the time and if you're of the heart to. And because of what we chose, we got twisted up. I'm sure you read that, in my posts. So even the thing we were made for—love—got mangled up inside us and we can't express it the right way anymore.

He would've been justified in wiping us out. Starting over with new creatures. We were His creation. He gets to decide what we are and what to do with us: we betrayed and insulted and defied our rightful King. But He's not like that. He had no reason to--no obligation to--but He chose to do the work and make a way for us to be back in relationship with Him. And He chose to do it by subjecting Himself to unimaginable torture and darkness, which would have been ours by right if He hadn't taken it for us.

I know that you love your mom. It is plain to see. And I understand the feeling. But if you really get to know the God of the actual Bible, instead of just the memes and the flawed people who try to explain Him—if you really get to know Him, between you and Him, you'll see that He actually loves your mom more than you do. And He loves you more than you, or anyone, does. Because He knows you both better and more intimately than you even know Yourselves. He made you. It'd be like an author getting to dive down into the story and tell their characters everything about themselves.

That's the kind of love we were made for. The kind of love that is there even though you don't deserve it, even though you're not entitled to it—the kind of love that would die for you while you're still hating Him.

I mean just stop and think about it, clear your brain of everything everyone has ever told you about LGBTQ+ and all that. And just think: can you love someone wholeheartedly and still know they're in the wrong? Even when they wholeheartedly believe they're right? Even when they're hurt by you believing they're in the wrong? Of course you can. Anyone who's had a loved one with a self-destructive habit, like alcohol addiction or an abusive lover or just a toxic personality trait or two, can relate to that common sense. They can say, "of course I love you. That's why I'm telling you to stop doing this, it's hurting you, it's not good for you, I know it doesn't feel that way, but it's the truth."

So if you believe that there are some circumstances where that applies, what makes it so unloving for this hypothetical God, who knows the best thing for your friend and knows your friend better than you do, to say so about being LGBTQ+? Why should LGBTQ+ be any different?

Well, the answer, of course, is that you don't believe it is true that it's wrong. Because, if we rewind, you don't believe in God. But you just told me that you came to that conclusion kind of...after feeling hurt by Him. You almost died, first , then your mom chose to leave Him behind and go ahead and live as if He doesn't exist. And you did, too.

But let's go back to playing pretend. If God exists, then He didn't act how you think He should've, as an "benevolent" God: He didn't do YOUR version of "good." So you abandoned Him. (We're pretending like He exists, from your perspective.) He didn't do your version of good, you feel mistreated, so you walked away from Him.

But He would never do that to you. If He's the kind of person the Bible says He is, He doesn't treat you that way. When you (humanity) didn't do His version (which is the only real version, since He invented it) of good, He didn't abandon you. He totally could have. But instead He made a way for your relationship to get fixed. But you have free will. So He's not going to force you to love Him and accept the gift. If you want to continue for all eternity without being with Him, you can. He gives you that option.

But then don't wonder why people who choose that option don't get "eternal paradise." Because according to the Bible, that's all heaven is: getting to be in relationship with God forever. Fully who He made you to be. If you don't want that, He won't force it: in fact, He couldn't. It wouldn't be just, and He is always just.

The truth is, after what we did to Him, none of us deserve anything from Him. I didn't deserve to survive in that ICU. Neither did my sister. Neither did my father or mother or grandfather. None of us should be allowed to inhale another breath; we're the King's people who betrayed Him and tried to steal His throne. But He is so good that instead He turns around and adopts us.

I know this is rambly. But you messaged me so genuinely, I just sort of wrote this as if I were sitting down and talking it all out, one word in front of the other, with you. I don't know you. I know these are very hot button topics, and very personal issues; but like you, I think they're of the utmost importance.

So I will keep considering the LGBTQ+ and transgender issues—but you have to understand that I'm in service to the King, so to speak. I love Him, He loves me, and He's my God. When I consider any part of reality, it's impossible to do so without Him as the center and standard of truth. Without Him, who gets to decide what's right or wrong? Just me. And on my own, I am inconsistent, selfish, ruinous. But I'm not on my own. And in the meantime, I'll ask you to consider God, the real God, of the Bible. Not what a church of whatever denomination tells you—not to start with. Not what I tell you, or anyone tells you. Just what He said about Himself, straight from the Bible. Let Him speak for Himself. Thanks for reaching out.

[mistydaysofavalon]

Soooo is Forgive Me Father For I Have Sinned what I think it is? 👀 more about that please?

well. it is. but also I can almost guarantee you it really isn't what you think it is.

(non phannies look away)

inspired by this post, our pairing is Father Philip/"normal" Dan. except it isn't really /. basically I thought, what if I took that concept and take it way too seriously, add a lot of religious trauma, angst and pining?

let me add the rest under the cut because I have a thing or two to say about this...

Phil is a catholic priest in his mid thirties who really likes his work. Well, it's much more than his work, it's his whole life and he's maybe a bit unconventional but really good at it, very compassionate and fostering a wonderful community in his church. He is a faithful man and believes that he can do good within the structures of the church, believes he can lead people on the right path. Perhaps he is a bit lonely and can't fully be himself all the time (he likes to keep his obsession about certain video games to himself), but that's fine. He's content with what he has and proud of what he has built. (also, he's a nosy bitch and secretly loves that people are confessing their secrets to him. not that he would ever break anyone's trust or his vow of silence.)

Dan is lawyer in his early thirties. He's gay, a bit depressed but he's working on himself, he's trying. surprisingly he doesn't even hate his job that much, he's found a way to use his degree for something he's actually passionate about (uhhh some social whatever thing). he's fine, really, but he feels a bit directionless in his life. oh, and he very much despises the catholic church. for systemic reasons and also for very personal reasons. there's a reason it took him until his late twenties to actually come to terms with his sexuality. well, multiple, but the aforementioned religious trauma is a huge part of it for this dan.

he's an atheist, doesn't believe in anything but the beauty of cold, hard science. who needs fate or being given meaning by a higher power when you can marvel at the infinitely complex reality and all the coincidences that led to some atoms arranging in a way that just so happen to make up the world?

depite all of that one fateful christmas Dan begrudgingly accompanies his grandma to church because he knows it means a lot to her and she is the one person in the world he would maybe even admit to loving. (shh, let's pretend veronica's catholic I know she isn't but this is fictionnnn.) the priest being incredibly hot almost makes it worth freezing for two bloody hours in church...

they meet. they clash, obviously, and initially slightly hate each other. but then they meet again. and again. and somehow fall into an unlikely friendship and eventually in love, even though both of them know they can't, that it's wrong. but can love truly be wrong?

(oh, funfact, sister daniel has a very short cameo in a dream. yeah, that kind of dream.)

ask me about my wips

(also if you're here for dnp, my dnp sideblog is @bewareofthenewphannie, I don't usually talk about them here)

[origami-butterfly]

Uhhh headcanons about Oscar?

YAY AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT MY BELOVED!!! Uhhh... some of this has potential to be triggering? Maybe? Uh.. mentions of religious trauma and mentions of intrusive thoughts, so I'm putting it under a cut (also people are probably not that interested in my thoughts about this gayass priest)

- He's greyromantic and ace (and in love with Arthur, obviously)

- The way he shows his love is very similar to worship, because it's what he's been taught by priests growing up

- Adding onto that, his wires are crossed, meaning he mixes fear and love because the Catholic Church teaches that to love God is to fear him. (Also based on what he says in 36, I think the priests would be like that as well)

- Sometimes priests double as organists! I think Oscar would have some basic musical training, enough to play chords and a melody during worship (him and Arthur should duet...)

- Re: the previous one, I think he would've hated lessons, and hates playing in services because there's people around, but loved playing pieces he liked, by himself.

- He has coeliac disease. I don't know where I got this hc, it came to me in a vision. (My church solely uses gluten free bread so perhaps it cane from there)

- He wears glasses. Square frame ones specifically.

- The worst churches always tell young people right from the start, that they are imperfect and therefore unworthy of God's love, the only person who could be is Jesus, and given what we know about Father McKenna, I'm think Oscar would be raised that way, so he's constantly striving for perfection to the point of obsession.

- HOWEVER, he does not preach the same thing in his church! I think he's the type to try and fix the system from the inside, and teaches the young at his church that they are good enough for God, that he loves them even though they sin.

- He gets bad intrusive thoughts. Because Christianity (and Catholicism especially) is deeply obsessed with purity, he'd try to repress them more and it would only get worse. Maybe taking a hammer to father mckenna was the catalyst for them. (When he falls for Arthur, he's convinced it's an "evil thought" and believes repressing it would make it stop, he's convinced he's condemned to hell.)

- Oscar fiddles with his rosary beads when he thinks about Arthur, so to an outsider it looks like he's praying, but actually he's thinking about someone else... there's a link to the commandment "have no other gods but me" to be made here, but it's late and I can't think of it.

- He's soooo huggable, he loves physical contact.

[butterscotch-goat]

heyy haha hi twirls hair do you have any Elijah fun facts or perhaps Lucy

OOOOOH LET ME SEE WHAT I CAN COME UP WITH!! Thank you so so so so so much for asking aaaa <33

Alright!! Eli!!!!!

-their nose is naturally hooked, but it's bumpy and lopsided because it has been broken!! he has been in a fair share of fights, never starting them, but they've gotten pretty good at ending them all things considered

-i have given them the title "The Apostate" :]

-they would go to church with Martha because it would make Grace too existential and scared but Martha didn't like going anywhere alone, sooo

-he tried to teach Martha to read but gave up; Martha got too frustrated (she learns eventually, thanks to Beatrice!)

-they know how to sew! fixes his own clothes and stuff

-Grace offered to try and heal his foot before but he politely declined; it's a part of him that he's accepted

-Grace's trial and execution was the front page story for a hot minute, so he had to shout about his best friend's death and sell biased & inaccurate stories about it so he could get paid :"]

-occasionally refers to Martha as "Marty" (Beatrice parallel BEATRICE PARALLEL)

-after Martha disappeared they started learning piano. He didnt get far though because he couldn't stand going in the church (to use the piano), especially without Martha

-when Martha returns, the only thing she could bring back of Grace was a jar with her heart in it (since her body got Dissected as fuck, chopped up to study n stuff) and anytime Eli is over at Martha's house (Martha kept it on her windowsill (where else is she gonna put it lol)) he like,, greets Grace's heart? I used to do this with an urn, it's a thing I swear. he would greet her heart,, he'd say hi to Grace, idk man.

-He and Martha still celebrate Grace's birthday; they set her heart jar on a table in front of a pastry or something. They don't take it very seriously (they need some lighthearted moments in their life god let them joke about their trauma please)

-after The Plot, Eli often goes with Martha on her (every-other-year-ish) visits to Aster and Beatrice. Beatrice and him get along very well (because of course they do) while Aster kind of scares him, but it's all good :]

-this one doesn't happen anywhere near the plot, only happens when hes like an adult n stuff but I think it's funny so...Eli COULD NOT keep a straight face at his Lavender wedding with Martha. Martha was more composed but Eli was NOT helping her keep it together Lol. After the fact he makes fun of Martha for being a terrible kisser (THIS IS SILLY GUYS PLEASE IM BEING SILLY)

Lucy time!!!!! Silly little guy!!! Pathetic man!!!

I'm reaaallllyyy struggling with the whole Dawn rework (ask Sen and he'll tell you,, I'm struggling so bad) so I don't have much at the moment. BUT I'LL TELL YOU WHAT I DO HAVE!!

As of writing this, Lucy WILL be a lot more active in the plot!! He's looking to prove he's still a powerful demon, so he goes with Gene to hunt down Frappe (and Dawn by associatio). He does, in fact, suck at his job though, so if anything he probably slows them down,, but that's okay...

Uhhh random stuff GO!!

-his glasses were accidentally stepped on by Ronnette when she was trying to wake him up one time (he passed out on the floor) but Lucy would rather DIE than go to the optometrist again so he's dealing with a cracked frame right now

-Lucy hates Juno almost as much as he hates humans,, but like he's never gonna hate anyone as much as he hates humans so (sorry Dawn, he wants you to perish so bad)

-Lucy is so sure that he's a MASTER at blending in with humans. He is not. He and his garish purple vest, unkempt And uneven long ass hair, and a shirt that's either A. Probably Gene's and therefore too big for him, or B. His shirt that has an entire sleeve missing. He doesn't remember where he lost the sleeve but he hasn't gotten around to getting a new one yet BUT HE WILL SOON GUYS TRUST (it has been 5 decades at LEAST)

-as of writing this I think I'm gonna make it so demons can actually control/choose what their humanoid form looks like, and I think Ronnette would pick on Lucy a lot for making his humanoid form so scrawny.

Uhhh I don't have anything else,, here's some Eli doodles WEEE (featuring his section of a bunch of character profiles I impulsively made in my sketchbook with NO PLANNING WHATSOEVER???? WTF IS WRONG WITH ME)

[doomhands-jr]

Devil's Advocate -- Prologue

Pairing: Bad Boy Taehyung x Pastor's Daughter Reader

Summary: Taehyung has a real chip on his shoulder as far as the local church is concerned. He fundamentally disagrees with anyone who thinks they have the right to tell people how they can live. And he definitely doesn't agree with their use of fear to control. It's a hill he's willing to die on. Or at least go to community service for.

You, on the other hand, are a certified Jesus Freak. Sure, you don't agree with everything in the Bible, but you're determined to get to heaven and take as many people as you can with you.

Still, when your dad, who happens to be the pastor of the local church, informs you that you now have to give up your Saturday mornings to witness to the delinquents who graffitied the youth center, you're less than thrilled. But it's your responsibility to save as many souls as you can, and you feel guilty if you let this one slip through your fingers just because you didn't want to get up early. So you'd lead community service. It was only twelve weeks. What's the worst that could happen?

Warnings: Smut. Talk of religious trauma. Explicit themes and language. Moral ambiguity. I don't know. I'm working through some stuff with this one. I'm guessing I'm going to offend a lot of people with this one but I'll try to be gentle about it and it's not intentional. ______________________ Prologue:

Taehyung’s right pointer finger began to freeze just as the can he was holding started running out. 

Shit. 

He shook the can vigorously. He only had one letter left before he was done.  “Do you have more red?” he asked. 

“No, I’m out,” Jimin said. 

He shook the can once again and went back to his project. The red paint sputtered, leaving a smattering of paint flecks on the wall, aerosol coating his finger once again. 

“Come on,” he muttered under his breath. 

The night air was freezing. Late September had always carried a slight chill, but this night in particular was unseasonably frigid. 

Taehyung caught a flash of red and blue out of the corner of his eye just before he heard the tell-tale whoop of police sirens. 

“Let’s bounce,” he said, throwing the can into his open backpack and slinging it over his shoulder. 

Jimin had a head start, having chucked his empty can behind him. He rounded the corner with Taehyung on his heels. 

“Stop!” the officer yelled. From the sound of it, he was a good fifty yards behind. Taehyung might be able to outrun them. He was spry and had experience running. He knew the officers in town would have a hard time catching up to him, given that they spent most of their days sitting on their asses in their cars, lurking near busy stretches of roads and trying to catch anyone behaving in a way they didn’t like. That amount of privilege makes you soft.

He took a left turn down a side-street. He knew he could lose them it he could just get to the woods. Jimin had the same idea. 

A mild pang of regret tore through his chest. He knew he’d never get a chance to finish the message he’d wanted to send to those religious fucks. 

Whatever. 

At least they knew they were hated. 

[hypernova-blitz-arts]

Okay so i have an idea- TMC but with a storyline based off of FAITH. basically a crossover. ik it's been done before but i'd like to present my own take on it. Long ass character info list under the cut

Btw if you wanna rb this, please do! It let's me know people are interested

To start, I think the AU would/should be called When Faith Prevails.

The cult still exists, Preacher is the leader of the lower ranking members. The cat is the cult mascot because yes. I'll elaborate later.

All of the humans are traumatized!! Yaaaaay!!!

Mark (Father Heathcliff)

- 36

- absolute wet cat of a man

- takes on a role similar to John

- decided he wanted to be a priest so he could help people. Only wanted to become a priest after an incident in his childhood in which he attempted to finish an exorcism. One which the priest that had been called to the scene died during.

- Continuing the above, the faithful boy did what he could, as he was instructed to by O'Brien. He wasn't fast enough.

- Insomnia, night terrors, PTSD, anxiety, depression

Dave (Father Lee)

- late 50's

- Takes on a role similar to Father Garcia because it's fucking hilarious to me to imagine Dave blasting a demon with a shotgun

- he's too cool that's why he dies later

- cares for Mark a lot, considers him family

- became a priest due to his Visions (TM) as a child. He's been revered as a holy prophet since.

- somehow the most stable guy in this entire AU, had a good family life, decent childhood, stayed out of trouble, a very good child. He's mostly chillin, save for the fact that he Witnesses The Horrors every night in his sleep.

Father O'Brien

- died during an exorcism.

- he done goofed.

Cesar Torres

- Died at 16, somehow aged as a ghost? maybe because he's still attached to his body.

- a spirit bound to what's left of his mortal form. Cannot be at peace until his body is killed.

- an alt possessed him and took his body during a botched attempt to exorcise it out of his house. Turns out there was more than one.

- "talks" to Mark sometimes (leaves things out that mean different things, writes notes)

- "bleeding" constantly

- hates seeing Mark spiral like this

"Cesar Torres"/Alt Cesar

- Killed Cesar and took over his body.

- watch it gain humanity later (i'm sorry but giving Alts humanity and then making them spiral is my favorite thing to do. It's so much fun to watch an unfeeling entity, one made to kill, drive itself insane over being a failure)

- they/it at first, he/it later on.

Sarah Heathcliff

- before i go on, this is only an AU loosely based on FAITH. That being said, Lisa (or any replacement thereof) x John (or any replacement thereof) does not exist.

- 32

- Mark's distant sister, lives in the Cult's apartment building.

- stays away from religion because of her childhood

- some flavor of emotional management issues, that's what makes her so easy for an Alternate to manipulate/begin to possess.

Thatcher Davis

- look, i refuse to make him as young as he is canonically. not as old as Dave, but close. bro is at least in his 40's here. maybe very early 40's but 40s nonetheless.

- cop that hangs around the church for security.

- hangs out with Dave, calls him old man a lot

- trauma. so much trauma.

- Dave taught him how to exorcise an alt out of a given place, but Thatcher has something stronger (a gun)

- "I'm a brave boy" *Sees an alt* "NOT A BRAVE ENOUGH BOY FOR THIS"

Ruth Weaver

- used to live in the cult apartment building.

- She was sacrificed.

- Thatcher is still looking for her.

- He won't like what he finds.

Adam Murray

- He's just Michael Davies here what else can i say

-17

- humanity? gone. none left.

- he's in so much pain all the fucking time help him

Jonah Marshall

- Adam's best friend

-18

- alive. for now.

- anxiety, so much anxiety, hallucinates a lot.

- he knows how to use a GUN in this one folks

Lucifer/The Morningstar/ UNSPEAKABLE

- you see how he looks in canon? make it worse. make it a million times more uncomfortable to look at.

- eyes. All of the eyes. So many eyes.

- limbs? Many. Wings? Yeah, he has those too. They're leathery and bat-like with a layer of blackened feathers along the top.

- merciless

- created the alternates to twist the world to his design.

- likes to watch humans go mental, it's so funny to him <3

Important side characters (mostly Alts)

Six/The Anglerfish

- lures children in to either make them join the cult or sacrifice them, often replaces them with an alt to "spread the vision of it's creator"

- Warned Mark of what was to happen, was there to observe Mark failing his best friend

- bastard. Kill him. Right now.

- him and stanley are one in the same. Six is the anglerfish hiding in the darkness behind its lure. A monster behind a friendly face.

Preacher

- Kind of equivalent to Malphas but usually takes a form like that of Miriam's

- right hand to the UNSPEAKABLE

- bastard boy bastard boy bastard boy

- manipulative little prick

The Sacrifices

- various sacrificed animals possessed by lower ranking alts

Goat

- THE fucked up sacrifice

- little fucking bitchass daddy's boy. Asskisser of the antichrist. Desperate for the UNSPEAKABLE'S attention

- Alu's replacement

[chaifootsteps]

I'm the accounting anon, I've sent chai stuff I've asked chai not to post but I think I should share my story.

I'm in my late 20's, an old discord friend made me watch the HH pilot, I didn't understand it. I use to be very religious from birth until I was 16 cause of a toxic church I attended. I was angry at the assholes I met at church since they were far older than my parents and the one toxic friend I cut off who enabled and lied to adults. She kept telling them she was catching my worship the devil, idk how or even why? I was very anti religion for a while and for years got stalked and harassed by that friend until she gave up. I've gotten therapy for my trauma and have come to terms with my "spirituality", don't really have a stance on it, I'm like neutral.

I think back to the HH pilot and really wonder, "what's the point of this?" after learning heaven sucks in Viv's helluverse as I've seen people call it. I did not want to watch HB, but decided what the hell after Seeing Stars aired since I saw a lot of crap circulating on it. At first, I liked HB, it was ok, I even really liked Millie as a character. However, as some people have said it, Millie progressively becomes a cardboard cut out as the series progresses and its painful how Viv expects us just to like her.

I heard about the Erin stuff and slid down the rabbit hole after Unhappy Campers. I did not like the stuff I've found, and honestly, I wish more people would speak up like Erin. Even then as a I type, I wish I could investigate further, but I'm at the scope of limitations to what I'm capable of. I'm very happy Ashley and Michel are happy together, that despite the shit that happened, I'm glad they've found each other. I'm happy Gooseworx is getting the love she deserves, I know she wasn't on Viv's shit list, but you never know what will come out later. I find Viv's hate boner for Dana Terrace hilarious and I want go give everyone whose found stuff on that cookies since alot has given me a good laugh. In the end, I'm just a person who wishes I could help the peoples she's harmed, but I'm limited to what I can do. I empathize a lot with Erin and do hope they're doing OK. I remember working full time for shit pay at my old job just to barely afford tuition and how toxic all my bosses were. I even worked on a project with someone who took my concepts and altered them in ways I was pissed off, and I didn't even get credited! We live in a world were assholes get to go to Japan and get to take photos with abused animals, but I do have hope that Viv gets her just desserts for what's she's done to people.

Thank you for this and for all that you do, Accounting Anon!

[evergreenssystem]

It kind of bothers us to see people treat those who insist OSDID is a trauma disorder as "terfs" or to see those who insist it is not as naysayers because, and we mean this as honestly and as kindly as possible, no one fucking cares about this sort of discourse in real life.

I don't mean that medically or professionally people don't care, but rather that a diagnosis exists so that someone can receive the help and resources they need, and the only reason they would need those is if they were struggling. Many self-proclaimed endogenic systems insist they do not have trauma, therefore have no need for a diagnosis or resources given to those with severe trauma.

As a community, we know science, especially mental science, has ethics it is required to follow, which is why to test exactly how, why, and what is needed to form a dissociative disorder is unethical. That being said, there are plenty of RAMCOA/programmed systems who will sit and tell you and while there aren't papers posted on it, it is widely known, especially in Christian nationalist and human trafficking organizations, how to induce OSDID and various (mostly cluster B) personality disorders.

Hell, even someone who has never done the research but wants to start a cult can just make a system (in our experience)

Now, if we are to look at OSDID as a complex disorder stemming from PTSD (post traumatic Stress disorder), then the idea that being "mixed origin" due to experiencing stress makes no sense. Stress is inherently traumatic, though in varying amounts for different people. Autistics tend to have lower stress thresholds.

Also, many people devalue their trauma. They act like because it wasn't dramatic or fancy enough, that because it wasn't a cult or witnessing a body, it isn't "enough." This couldn't be further from the truth.

A list of things that could cause any number of traumagenic disorders:

Spanking

Employing the false parenting method of leaving a child to cry in their crib so that they will "learn." (they are incapable of such, as they are a child)

Forcing a child to spend long, unwilling periods of time by themselves

Forcing a child to sit in silence puncuated by meditative or "worship" procedures as a punishment (the Mormon church does this often)

Having an inconsistent and often negative view on a child's consistent actions (being kind one day and miserable the next etc etc)

Repeated bullying

Emotional and/or physical abuse from a person in power of the child (parents, teachers, lawmakers, other students)

Gaslighting

Enforcing body dysmorphia

A child growing up in a home where the parents hate each other and do not try to hide it or do anything about it

Religious abuse/harassment (things along the line of "if you don't follow our very vague and impossible idea of perfection, you will burn or suffer forever")

Medical neglect

Emotional neglect

Physical neglect

Sexual harrassment

Sexual assault

Rape/CSA/CSEM

Torture

Witnessing death

Cannibalism

Being forced to engage in and/or cover up a murder

Literally anything cults do

There is no precedent for how severe the trauma has to be as long as it is trauma and repeated. You will notice how a good portion of these are usually started in infancy, before memories may even form. This is often why many systems don't remember or cannot access those memories. No matter what type of amnesia, if the brain was never able to remember its trauma from the metaphorical get-go, it is unlikely it would gain the ability to do so.

If you experience plurality or dissociation, speaking to an informed trauma specialist, or even a close friend who may deal with the same thing and is educated about what is going on may help. Personally, I don't care if someone identifies as endogenic or multigenic or whatever label people come up with to excuse their trauma. One of the symptoms of this disorder is denial. I don't even encourage trying to find out the specifics of one's trauma without a strong support system. I do think self-diagnosis is a valuable tool, but like any form of diagnosis, it is designed to figure out what the problem is, so that it can be easier to manage. I also think it's unfair to call those who believe the current research on the disorder "TERFs" or "sysmeds," as being trans has no link to childhood trauma or any significant research to back up what "causes" it.

For context, the gender dysphoria argument was created sometime in the early stages of trans medicine so that doctors could determine which patients would do anything for SRS/HRT, so that they could make their prices unreasonable.

[patricia-von-arundel]

CONTENT WARNING: transphobia, other prejudices, suicide/murder, violence, family and religious trauma

I am going to tag with "transphobia" for now, but please let me know if there is another tag you need, especially considering how curious the human mind gets. Anon is on if that's your preference.

And for the record, I am not trans.

Irony being that she blocked me yesterday (TDOV) for saying there are reasons to include pronouns in your info besides being trans after this:

Well, lady, I'm long past silence, period, with people who refuse to realize that they are perpetuating the same sorts of dehumanizing behaviors they would likely call horrendous when safely viewed through being decades removed from it. It's theoretically no longer acceptable (wantonly and unapologetically - you have to at least pretend there was some other reason... like being trans/gay) to murder, ostracize, belittle, etc., people for their religion, or skin color, or ethnicity, or political orientation, or or or...

I know it happens everyday. I'm a lot of things, but stupidly naive isn't one of them. Not my point here -

And that point is, that openly making fun of, demeaning, or verbally abusing a particular group of people generally only happens when the person doing it knows they will have at least some community support. This is true in people from the moment they can toddle around with enough balance to hit the kid who has the toy truck they want. The 2-year-old gets upset not because of empathy with the other, but because they got caught and in trouble.

Empathy develops to some extent for most. But not all. 🤷‍♀️ And many adults never seem to escape the desperate need to be part of an in-group, and potentially dehumanize or disenfranchise an out-group to be given that part.

While being "normal" gay/lesbian (aka, "stop complicating things and get in the box we've assigned you!") has slooooowly begun to swing closer to being mainstream acceptable or at least somewhat tolerated (and I would dearly love to take a stick to "love the sinner, hate the sin" bullshit), those who do not fall neatly into such categories are still stuck fleeing the field of open season.

I do have a question, though, for those who mock gender identities, pronouns, etc. -

My grandmother died 13 years ago. She grew up in the rural Southeastern US, born in the 1920s. She supported the Civil Rights movement.

But she would not let POC use the bathroom in her house.

My question is: do you think this acceptable? Do you think it is okay to use a particular time, place, and social norms to justify continuing to support and perpetuate microaggressions that were seen only 60-odd years ago as normal?

If you would find it demeaning and horrifying that there are white people who continue to refuse to let black people pee in their toilet, answer me honestly:

How is it not just as demeaning and horrifying to refuse someone's preference for what you call them, in names, or pronouns, or both?

"But I never actually hurt anyone!"

Yeah - neither did my grandmother.

"Look, it's funny. Sorry. But it is. What the fuck is a Ze/Zir? Sounds like some crazy lesbian sci-fi move. 🤣"

Verbal aggression is still aggression.

And here is what I said that got me blocked:

Human history is full of people who shrug and accept the status quo, people who look the other way, and people using the former behaviors to justify their own. Mocking and demeaning seem "harmless" - until they aren't.

"Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?!" asked Henry II, frustrated that his new Archbishop of Canterbury was being difficult. After all, Thomas had been picked specifically so that he would side with the king and nobilty over the pope and church! And now he wasn't cooperating. At all.

And maybe the quote above isn't quite how it went. The Zapruder manuscript has yet to be found. 🤷‍♀️ But he said something while grumpy and sulking.

And by the end of 1170, Thomas Becket's brains were splattered all over the altar at Canterbury Cathedral.

I'm not saying one obscure author mocking pronouns is going to end up with anyone murdered. Almost certainly, it will not. But such microaggressions can snowball. If more and more people find more and more dehumanizing behavior acceptable... where does it stop?

With heads smashed open before a church altar? With the wanton murder of thousands through Crusade? With civil war and invasion? With slavery and genocide? With forced marriages, chemical castration, jail, banishment?

All have happened.

But whatever your personal stance on pronouns... even just mocking, arguing that the trend of choosing gender and pronouns is "absurd," may leave you one day wondering if anything will be capable of scrubbing away the stains it may leave on your hands.

Ask yourself what your grandchildren might think of your behavior, one day.

And for anyone reading while dealing with your own trauma and self-harm, please reach out, if at all possible, to people who can help you. You deserve to be safe, and respected, and loved.

You deserve to live. And I hope we can keep working together to make that a life you'll love to live. 💖🏳️‍⚧️

[to-be-a-rose]

Age 4 (?): I can't read yet but I make a book out of paper and tell my mom what to write on the pages. It's about the tooth fairy or something. When people talk about their relationship with writing they always reference childhood stories like these, and they usually say they "started writing as soon as they could hold a pen," or they "picked up a pen one day and never put it down again," something like that, it always involves a pen, and a precocious vocation for storytelling. I was never too impressed because every kid has the instinct to make up stories, it doesn't mean you're a born writer. (But secretly I think yeah well, I started writing BEFORE I could hold a pen. The pen didn't factor into it at all actually.)

Age 8: I enter a writing contest where the prize is getting your story made into a real book. I wrote a story about a sentient flower in a pot because I had never read a story from the point of view of a flower. I don't win.

Age 10: I love reading even more after I get diagnosed with clinical depression, which feels like when your grandpa died and for the first time you fathom the foreverness of death while standing beside his casket, only all the time. I don't really understand why my brain broke but I do know if I'm reading then it's like it's fixed, as long as I get really sucked into the book. I decide I'll cure myself by reading every single moment I'm awake. It works!

Age 12: Another writing contest, this time everyone in the sixth grade is required to enter. We have to write a short piece (300 words) encouraging people to join the priesthood or be a nun or something (Catholic school). Every middle school in the Archdioceses enters, and I win first prize and have to read my entry in front of all-school mass. I'm given a plaque and a check. My essay goes pretty hard even though I hate church and religion. I wonder if anyone joined the priesthood because of what I wrote, about vocations, a word I only just learned. That would be hilarious.

Age 16: I'm in highschool and writing is my "thing." Everyone pays me to write papers and book reports for them, about $20 a pop depending on the length and subject matter. My motto is "at least a B or your money back!" I brag a lot because I don't have to read the book to do a decent book report. I'm in college level English and French but I'm not getting college credit because I can't pay the fee, so I'm just in there writing people's papers. I love that people think I'm deep and smart because I can write (this is what I think they think of me) even though I don't really read as much as I used to.

Age 20: It turns out I'm a terrible student. Putting words in an attractive sequence isn't so impressive; everyone knows how to do it now. Writing nice papers might help me if I wrote the papers, and went to class. So I'm on academic probation for like five years and trying not to lose my student aid. As soon as I arrived at college the fear of God went through me and I abandoned all notions of being an author. I need to do like, business. Marketing. I'm not going to be one of those chumps with an English degree, no. I'm going to get a degree in Communication! Communication is kind of like writing. It's really broad, I tell everyone, so it applies to lots of fields. They say, what do you want to do with it? I say that's the beauty of it, I can do anything. Marketing. Business. Public Relations. They say, but like what job? What job do you want? I say oh man, the sky's the limit. The future is bright. I'm gonna have my pick of jobs, you'll see.

Age 21: I get it in my head that I want to be a literary sort of writer. Confessional, feminist, slam poetry style writing is very en vogue, especially on Tumblr, so I imitate that. You do a lot of writing in second person perspective because it's provocative. It's all about dragging out my traumas for everyone to consume and it's all a claustrophobic examination of myself. I am the most fascinating person in the world. Nevermind that I never, ever edit anything I write. Nevermind that I don't spend any time reading or examining my craft, because I don't even know what that means. People are gonna read about how I did weight watchers when I was twelve and they're going to love it! I'm basically Lena Dunham but all of the cringe and none of the talent.

Age 22: I have an online job ghostwriting blog posts for law firms, a job I didn't even know existed, and that I don't think does anymore. It's just a side gig really, I'm assigned a few blogs per week for several different law firms, about 500 words, and $8 per blog. They give me topics like Divorce Law and Carseat Recalls and I churn out content. Boring as hell but a pretty sweet gig, and not unlike what I did in highschool. I got the job by submitting a writing sample, an essay I wrote about a Frida Kahlo's Henry Ford Hospital, a painting where she is laying naked in a bloody bed contemplating her miscarriage. My employer said of the writing sample, "the content you write for us will be...different."

Everything is all wrong. I'm very concerned with Being a Writer and not at all concerned about writing. I submit writing to magazines because I desperately want to be published but I never edit any piece, I never try to become better at writing, because I think it's a born-in thing and I was born with it, baby. I never like anything I write. I don't even know what I write about; confessional think pieces that hit all the beats they should but don't actually say anything. I'm putting words in an order I think people will like. I want to be published, I want to be a writer, I want the cool girls in the English department who work at the lit mag and go to poetry readings at the book shop to think I'm cool, too. (There's a huge poetry phase in here too, good God, the poetry. I do a lot of comparing men to cigarettes.)

Age 25: I live at my mom's and I quit my job at the vintage store where I've been working for three years. I took a break from school and haven't graduated. I got a job at the hockey stadium and I quit after two days. I got a job at a bakery and I quit after one. I break down crying to my mom that I just turned 25, I have no job, no degree, and I've done nothing. Something was supposed to happen by this point. Everyone thought I was so smart.

Age 26: I wonder when writing became synonymous with literary and memoir, for me. I wonder when I decided I couldn't be an author anymore. I didn't even try. I never even fucking tried, and I never asked myself what I wanted to write. And I never asked WHY I wanted to write. It's very exciting to realize this. I admit that I fucking hate writing about myself, and about the real world, and all the other imitation vagina monologues schlock I was half heartedly writing.

I dive into my interests and it's an exciting time. I'm going to write a book. As soon as I decide I'm going to be a fantasy author everything makes sense again, it all feels right and momentous. I'm fine, mom, sorry about crying earlier, I was so young then. I get on Tumblr which I abandoned a couple years ago and find a whole new community called writeblr. I start to amass writing friends and pictures of castles and writing tips and advice. I draft a YA fantasy novel about a girl who goes to a boarding school that has been infiltrated by faeries.

Age 27: I've written a book. I scrapped the YA somewhere in the first edit but I'm impressed I even did that; wrote it, and then contentedly put it away. I worked so hard for 120k word that I would never show to anyone, and I was happy because it made me a better writer. A year's worth of craft work. I think it's the first time I've ever worked hard on something, and I wish I was kidding. And it was fun. But I scrap it because I am possessed by a second idea, an adult fantasy novel. Oh yeah, and I go back to school and finish my degree. School doesn't seem as hard now that I found out how to work at something. I get my degree in Communication even though by now I know that I'd rather die than work in public or human relations, or business, or marketing. But the great thing is I get a job at the library and when I'm not showing old people how to use the computer, I read and brainstorm my novel all day long.

Age 28: I've written the adult novel, and rewritten it. I'm basically writing the same book over and over again nearly from scratch. It doesn't seem like this is how I'm supposed to do it but I can't fathom a better way. Now I've definitely worked harder than I've ever worked in my life. I've never been so certain that my writing is dogshit, and trying to make it not dogshit is so fun its like being high. At least half of the time I want to tear my hair out and sob but I'm almost certain that it's going to pay off, and pay off soon.

Age 29: Holy shit, I'm still going. Every time I think it can't get any better, it does, and every time I think it might be kinda good, I blink, and it's shit again. I've written the same book over and over, but now I'm at the point where I'm not rewriting, I'm keeping most of it and editing on the micro level. I say cool shit now like "micro level." Sometimes I get so frustrated I cry, but I'm starting to kind of love my writing.

Age 30: On Thanksgiving day, 2022 I turn 30 years old. It's a big thing, a big birthday, the big three-oh. I have a really magnanimous feeling like I need to reflect and commemorate and mourn my twenties. I figure since it's my writing blog I should do that through the lens of writing, which has been a presence in my life the whole time, some might say, since before I picked up a pen. And I figure it's my blog and big birthday, so why shouldn't I make a long self-mythologizing post in the style of how I wrote in my twenties?

My adult fantasy novel is just about done, and I'm going to give it to someone to read, and then I'll query it. Four years ago if you would have told me I would write intensively for four years to get one functional novel I wouldn't have believed that was a good thing, but now I'm just proud that I'm mature enough to try and hone the craft before rushing to get recognition for it. I do want the validation of publishing, and I want the paycheck even more, but I had no idea it was possible to feel so content in a process. Just looking inward and fucking with something until it makes you happy (that's writing in it's bare bones, fucking with it until it makes you happy.) Writing is continually becoming; when you force your life into a narrative you start saying shit like that so it all seems so prescient and profound, and then the essay can end. I don't think I can get there. There's something in there about vocations and pens that I should use to put a neat bow on this but I can't. I'm just excited. I think I'm going to be okay.

[agoddamnedrayofsunshine]

Religious trauma dump ahead

TWs: apocalypse talk, current events stuff

OK. So the time has come once again for the Mormon General Conference, and given all the bullshit going on in the world, I need to get this out there because it's been eating at me for awhile and if I don't my head might actually explode.

If anyone isn't aware, the Mormon church (or as they will insist on being called, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) is basically a death/apocalypse cult. The "latter days" refer to the last days of Earth before Armageddon.

I think I was maybe 3 or 4 years old when I was first taught about that. Told that I had to be prepared to meet Jesus because he was coming back very, very soon.

I, like every generation of Mormon youth, was taught that my generation was a "chosen generation". That we would never die, because the Second Coming would happen in our lifetime because we were so darn special. And as a tacit threat, we BETTER be good or else that "never die" part would be rescinded.

I don't think I have to tell y'all how much that fucked with my head growing up. The years of the 2012 hysteria were basically one prolonged anxiety attack and to be honest I don't know how I got through them.

Anyway, with all the stuff going on between climate change and the war in Ukraine and all the unrest here in the US, I can't help but remember the line that was always parroted to us. The things that would portend Armageddon and the second coming of Christ:

Matthew 24:6-12 (apologies for the KJV, it's the version Mormonism insists on using.)

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All* these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

So yeah, that sounds familiar, don't it? I know that this applies to a LOT of time periods throughout history, but growing up I was convinced that this referred specifically to our time period. That we had to just endure these things because they can't be helped.

Now I know that isn't true. Some of these problems CAN be helped. But I can't get rid of that nagging voice at the back of my mind.

What if they're right? What if Armageddon is coming and I'm not ready? What if everything is about to end and I'm gonna regret that I didn't believe?

Rational Sunny knows these things are nonsense. There will be no Armageddon. Jesus isn't coming so I don't need to look busy.

But I just can't shake it. I've had Armageddon dreams since I was five years old, and I think I'll have them for the rest of my life. I don't know if I'll ever be rid of this nonsense that I'm carrying from a cult I don't even BELIEVE IN anymore.

TL;DR: I was raised in an apocalyptic cult and all I got was this lousy anxiety disorder.

[naylor]

ok another question if you want to talk about it (if not that is totally fine! just ignore this, i will not be offended), but how does catholic guilt actually manifest? It is a term that gets sooo frequently used online but I find it very hard to grasp given that I am not catholic myself and all catholics I know have a rather relaxed relationship to their faith (likely because faith/the church plays a different role in german society I feel). I've been listening to a lot of catholic podcasts for research and that has given me a bit of (concerning!) insight, but I'd be interested to hear what somebody with a more reflected perspective might have to say about it.

i think people who are still actively in the Church and people who have left or distanced themselves from Her experience catholic guilt very differently.

when you're still in the Church it's guilt and shame associated with not following it as perfectly as you're told you're supposed to be following it. i, personally, don't have religious trauma but do struggle with guilt because even though i grew up in a very healthy, supportive, affirming community the truth is i'm still a queer, trans, neurodivergent person and even though i wasn't taught to fear and hate all those things, those are still sentiments held deep within the Church and i've gone through a long process of deconstruction, discernment, and acceptance so i do believe God's love is unconditional and my sexual preferences are not against His plan and love for me, but its still hard. i recently started veiling and dressing modestly because it's something i want to do but i'd be lying if i said it wasn't also because i feel like i have to commit myself a little more than other people.

now, for people distanced from the Church it's a lot worse. it's kind of double guilt, because they're actively trying to unlearn the teachings of the Church so whenever they feel that guilt of not being good catholics it comes with a second wave of shame about feeling shame at all. i don't have experience with this, obviously, but it seems like it's guilt about not being able to step away from what you were taught in the Church. it's also doubts, i think, of whether or not this is the right thing to do or if you just were not good enough, faithful enough, pious enough, etcetera.

being raised catholic is a very unique experience from other christian denominations because it's kind of very universal (pun intended), we're all taught the same things and we're more strict with the following of the rules but also because we have all these rituals associated with catholicism that become expected parts of life so when you stop doing it it does feel like you've kind of lost a part of who you were.

[hislittleraincloud]

No hate at all but please tell me what's up with your deep hatred for Jenna. What did she say about Miller's girl that was so bad??

"Deep hatred"? I wouldn't say it's deep hatred. I've always said it was/is a love/hate. I can't truly hate something/someone who brought me back into writing. (So if she out there readin' (LOL), I don't hate you, Mama...you just annoy the crap out of me sometimes.)

Regarding Miller's Girl, that post I clipped of her talking about it annoys me, since she says she'd never read any character like Cairo before. You know, Cairo being a brilliant, ahead-of-everyone-around-her teen writer with a bigger vocabulary than her peers who lives in a big haunted mansion and who hates crowds.

Nah, she never read any character like that before.

I get it, she isn't about to compare the two roles because press promo for MG could never. But some of the stuff that comes out of her mouth is vapid as all Hell, like talking as if college/education prospects are a million miles behind her ("I really wanted to go, I tried for a minute!" both Elle and Jenna acting like Jenna's 50 years old and the capability to go to college just eludes her...she was 20 when she gave that interview 💀). I have very low level of respect for those who don't think they can go get an education while they're living the celebrity life; if Emma Watson could do it, so can she, if she really wants to. But she doesn't, so 🤷🏽‍♂️

The bar goes even lower when I read how strongly of a Jesus Beater she is from her book. The indoctrination is thick with this one, but that's how it typically is with the religious Mexicans (I know, because I have them in my family) and you have to be sharp to escape the cultural programming. My 81yo father broke away 70 years ago after discovering science, and after thinking for himself (and after witnessing the priests going after the Pretty Choir Boys in his church). I could talk a long time about this aspect, but it's a touchy subject for me and one that involves lots of fucking [religious] trauma, none of which has anything to do with my parents/family (just girls who were so frighteningly indoctrinated that common sense was non-existent in their brains, and it upended my life for the worse each time). However, she was 18 and still relatively insulated when she published that book. So maybe time will tell. Doubtful, given how ingrained it is w/her fam, but one never knows, esp. in Hollyweird. Something in her changed though, I've noticed, from 18 to now. 😕 Now that I've kind of sort of 'caught up' some on her as an actress, because prior to me hearing of her casting for Wednesday, I didn't know who she was. I still didn't know after I watched the show in January '23 (I was convinced to, by the friend I have who is now missing). And when I found out she was that chick from the Babysitter 2, I was all, "No way, I thought she was the worst!" I kept hoping her character would get dispatched 💀🤣. I had to see if I was missing something, since her fanbase is a really weird soup of young lesbians and old cishet guys sharing half-naked AI pics of her using her 15-year-old face on Facebook. It fascinates me that those are her biggest, drooliest fans. I like "weird" shit, and this is def weird shit to me.)

I will give her this: She did admit that her accent work is bad. But when Elle Fanning said it wouldn't be if she had a dialogue coach, she didn't have much of a response. I have much more respect for the Fannings. Hell, I just watched Elle in Benjamin Button again (I love that movie). That...was a child star. He accent was on point, she was adorable in it as Young Daisy 🥰🤩. But anyway.

No deep hatred. Deep annoyance. Disney has been annoying me since before its broad integration into regular households, so it makes sense. I don't care for Disney, celebrity, or religious culture, all things she's deeply steeped in, and yes, it's very irritating to have a muse that's the complete opposite of what you stand for.

But inspiration does not have a type. She's a cunning shapeshifter, and she can still sit on your shoulder some moreso than others, ha and whisper sweet nothings in your ear until you've got no choice but to write them down. I suppose I was conditioned in a way to be able to keep separate the actor from the role, so if you ask me, "Hey, are you attracted to her?" the answer would be, "No, I'm attracted to her characters." Except for that stupid bitch in X. God what a dumbass. And not in a mere sexual sense, but in more of a self-identification, since I was always (and still am, apparently) the outcast.

I've also always been a huge fan of Ricci's Wednesday, so of course I'd be interested in this iteration. I might have been interested to see any young actress try to tackle Wednesday. We just happened to get her. I'm too curious/too invested in this shit now that I want to see what she's going to do in S2.

And why do I feel like that movie with Percy is also going to be, like Miller's Girl, a flop? If she really wants to stretch her acting, she needs a period piece of some sort. Get her out of her human form and into something completely alien to her, force her to act. Even if it meant a 'soft'/unserious 'period piece' like say...Pirates.

Does that make sense? If not, remember what day it is, kids...Happy 4/20🌿

[hgghgfd]

In a Black Box with Nick Cave 1983

On The Street, May 1983

Interview by Rob Miller

Collected by Katherine B.

If male artists are, as Sigmund Freud once opinioned, simply frustrated neurotics trying to capture the traumas of the birth experience, then Nick Cave must be pretty close to getting back to his womb by now.

Perched on his narrow bed littered with a half-empty flask of scotch, a crumpled packet of Peter Jacksons, and an On The Street (of course!) in a sordid little Kings Cross hotel room, Nick is still tangibly more man than myth-even if on stage you can get a clear view of Mick Harvey drumming through those (Mum's cooking or not!) matchstick legs. Nick talks distractedly, and in an offhand way in the general direction of the cassette player, with, one suspects, a touch of disdain for the "pen-pushers and the quacks (We just want the facts! We've just come for the facts!)" - but in retrospect with surprising candour and honesty as well. He is really not the sort of successful artist who wallows smugly in the bog of self-congratulations.

Meanwhile, never one to miss an opportunity to sharpen up his pristine public image, bellicose bass player Tracy... 'buurrp' Pew lobs a parting shot - "Well...we'd better leave you two alone together then," as he walks out of the door with a shuffling and quiet Barry Adamson in tow and the interview gets underway.

ON THE STREET: How much of a distinction is there between The Birthday Party and Nick Cave as a songwriter - given that The Birthday Party had gone as far as it could go? Does that mean the The Birthday Party was not just Nick Cave as a songwriter?

NICK CAVE: I don't think that The Birthday Party was just Nick Cave as a songwriter. I don't think that the Man or Myth tour is just Nick Cave as a songwriter either. The main reason why The Birthday Party broke up was that the sort of songs that I was writing and the sort of songs that Rowland was writing were just totally at odds with each other - it was mainly a rift which developed between me and Rowland which kind of carried on through the rest of the group and made it tiresome for everyone else as well. It was certainly enough to make Mick Harvey quit, which is why The Birthday Party broke up officially. It probably would have gone on longer, but Mick has the ability to judge things much more clearly than the rest of us. We tend to get a bit carried away with things.

OTS: Your songwriting has undergone quite an evolution since the first Birthday Party album - it seems that these days you use much more conventional imagery.

NC: Yeah, I think so too. Even though I am using more conventional sorts of imagery, it seems to be much more difficult to write songs nowadays. With each year the process of writing a song becomes far more involved to ridiculous lengths. For example, writing Mutiny in Heaven was in the writing, lyrically anyway, for a good four months before we ever recorded it in Berlin. It's because you're using a cliche that it's like that I think - because people see something that they've heard about many times before, written about in a refreshing way, which is far more potent than just choosing a theme or subject matter that is obscure to begin with and writing about that in a conventional way.

OTS: Are you a lapsed Catholic?

NC: No, I'm not.

OTS: I guess it doesn't really matter what you are or aren't, really.

NC: I don't think it does. I've always had a very strong interest in that sort of imagery. I've always used it, perhaps now a bit more aggressively than I used to.

OTS: Do you like Louis Bunvel films?

NC: No, I don't. I hate Louis Bunvel films actually. He's... didactic, his films are didactic and the way I use that imagery... they're not making any particular statement about the Church, Religion or God at all. Not intentionally anyway.

OTS: Still - that seems like an incredible claim to make given that Mutiny In Heaven is so incredibly (although delightfully) blasphemous!!

NC: When I wrote that song it wasn't to make any deliberate insult to the Church or anything. I don't think in political terms like that. I was just happy with the way it sounded. I'm not stupid enough to be unaware that if particular people heard it, then they would find in offensive - but I wasn't being deliberately offensive or harbouring any particular prejudice against the Church when I wrote it.

OTS: Why then? Is it just a matter of exploring the emotional force you can generate from singing a song?

NC: Well, that particular song is different. The sort of songwriting I'm mainly interested in at the moment is far more narrative. Jennifer's Veil for example or a number of songs of the Man or Myth EP that's been recorded or things like She's Hit, this kind of half-story stuff, trying to build some sort of enigma around a particular character is mostly what I'm interested in, but Mutiny In Heaven is far more of an abstract thing, quite different from what I usually write.

OTS: Do you find there is much in the ways of film, theatre, bands or books that you want to consume yourself?

NC: Oooh - yeah - there are things that I like - but I'm just far more skeptical these days about what I go and see and what I read than I used to be. I used to do all I could to fill myself up with as much input as possible, but these days it seems much easier to predict what will be worth seeing or reading. I'm far more prejudiced than I used to be.

OTS: Are you still influenced by things? For example, by your immediate environment or the particular atmosphere of Melbourne where you grew up?

NC: I don't think that the environment has much impact - only in a really negative way. I really don't think that what happens to me day to day has very much bearing on what I'm writing about at all. It seems to be far more of an inward type of thing and far more to do with particular obsessions that have always been there - not that I could ever lay a finger on them - not that I even had a difficult religious upbringing which is the reason why I use a lot of blasphemous imagery - nor is it the influence of other musicians... or painters or books that I've read - although I could probably site some, mainly literature, that put me on particular tracks. The influences don't seem to come from anywhere anymore, they just come from your own past or what you've already created and what you can extend on from what you've already created. You review what you've already done and find that it's not what you've wanted to have done and you keep on wanting to repair your past... shortcomings.

OTS: I remember very strongly the Friday 13th gig at the Roundhouse last year, which some loved, some hated but which affected everyone. There was such immensely potent feeling coming off the stage for at least the first ten rows anyway because the sound in the Roundhouse was so horrific on that occasion.

NC: I thought that concert was really dreadful actually. I remember afterwards trying to cancel the whole rest of the tour. But the two at the Trade Union were much better...

OTS: - in a much more straightforward way though -

NC: I thought that all the concerts we did in Sydney were good in different ways, from what I remember of them anyway - and in retrospect. I liked the Roundhouse one, because it just, to me, showed a group in the process of falling apart. And it was those sorts of things that I thought were good about it - it just showed a group in its final stages and how we were making no qualms about how we appeared to the audience.

OTS: How did The Birthday Party go in America? How far did you get?

NC: Well, the last tour we did was great. It's fairly hard to tell in America how many people you actually draw and how many people just come to the club - people come to clubs with little regard for who's playing at all. All of the concerts we played were packed out - especially in new York and L.A - we played some really exceptional gigs, some of the best The Birthday Party have ever done. They were really inspirational.

OTS: Do you find you respond well to the challenge of playing to people who have never heard of The Birthday Party?

NC: Yeah, sure. America's really like that! You get the impression that you are able to shock and offend and that sort of thing all over again, whereas in London every time you play to the same kind of jaded, Pavlov's Dog type crowd.

OTS: Would you say that The Birthday Party were always a misunderstood band in that sense - that a certain contingent of the audience come along and get off purely on the aggression of the music without knowing or caring that it has much more to offer?

NC: Yeah, certainly. I don't know of another group who are playing music that is attempting in some way to be innovative that draws a more moronic audience than The Birthday Party. This is not everybody, of course - just people I see from stage - there's always ten rows of the most cretinous sector of the community.

OTS: And so is Berlin as exciting as we've been lead to believe?

NC: Well, I've always found it very exciting in the times that we've toured there. I just built up a collection of German friends - Berliners - who were really remarkable people and there was a real lot of activity going on that didn't even nod towards England for recognition. It was totally autonomous and very exciting in that respect.

OTS: In all areas of the arts?

NC: Yeah, sure. There was a group of about 25 people who just spent each night together at one of the clubs there - there were about five clubs you could go to in Berlin and they generally stayed open until 9 o'clock in the morning. They really knew how to live, the Berliners.

OTS: It always seems to light up just before a fall, Berlin.

NC: I don't think its ever really been very different. It's only when people who don't live in England or America got there and re-discover it, that it regains notoriety or popularity. I don't think it's ever particularly stopped there. I know that Berliners don't give a fuck who goes there or who uses their little creative island.

OTS: And so was it enjoyable doing the Immaculate Consumptive shows?

NC: Yeah, it was great. I'd worked with Lydia Lunch before, but it wasn't particularly stimulating this time. We were at each other's throats, it seems, the entire time, but it was really an education and very exciting to work with Marc Almond. He's just brilliant, that guy. I don't know what sort of reputation he's got here.

OTS: Obviously for lots of people, it's very easy not to take him seriously at all - that effete, camp sort of image.

NC: People really have the wrong idea of what he's like altogether. He's very aware of his public image and plays it up to hilarious extreme. But when he's doing things out of the Soft Cell or Mambas mode, he's really a very exciting performer and a great lyric writer. As far as I'm concerned, it was he who made The Immaculate Consumptive shows so exciting.

OTS: So what do you intend on doing after the Man or Myth shows?

NC: I'm not really exactly sure. Possibly we'll be looking at doing some concerts in America with this line-up, mainly because some of us want to get over to that side of the world. But all I've though about so far is to go to Mexico for a while and not do any sort of performing. If I thought I could live there, and if it was a likeable place to live, I could maybe get a job and just stay there for a long period of time. If I had the urge to, I could always record very easily. This is the thing about being solo, you can work from project to project which is what I want to do. I have no particular plans for doing anything in future in the music regard simply because I haven't thought of anything to do.