#idk if there's any meta discussion on it or not

[yunyin]

Have people talked about this skull motif on Marinette's dress?

This feels like such an odd choice to me. I'm not sure what to make of it yet.

[revenantghost]

So I’ve had a bit of a thought about plants ever since reading Trimax (no spoilers because we get no answers though lol), and I can’t help but wonder if anyone else has reached the same conclusion? Given the twisted, often mutilated but human-adjacent form that plants have in any given version of Trigun, and given that independent plants are nearly built just like humans...

Are plants the product of human experimentation?

In every translation of what little info I’ve seen, it’s stated that plants were created by humans. Not the product of alien life or anything, but of humans themselves. And given how they look, and given Tesla... Well, I just think it makes an awful lot of sense.

It also makes both Knives and Vash’s plight a bit more interesting, if we’re all growing off the same branch.

[ourflagmeansgayrights]

i know a big point of contention in this fandom is Ed's Anger. but the thing is that it's rlly hard for this to be an "agree to disagree" issue because the sides are like:

edward teach does have anger issues. in the show he becomes disproportionately and irrationally angry, and he expresses that anger in harmful and unacceptable ways. saying ed doesn't have anger issues is flattening a complex indigenous character for the sake of respectability politics.

edward teach does not have anger issues. every instance of ed's anger in the show is proportionate to the situation he is experiencing and ed is shown to be capable of controlling his anger. the way ed expresses his anger is normal and acceptable within the fictional comedy universe he exists in. saying that ed does have anger issues reflects implicit biases about men of color being inherently and exceptionally angry and violent.

and like, i've rewatched this show a billion fucking times at this point. i've seen these scenes more times than i can count. never, at any point, did i think ed's on-screen expressions of anger were indicative of anger issues. i have always considered ed's anger to be reasonable. even in the brief period of time before i began engaging with this fandom, i did not think ed had anger issues. i was surprised to find out that some people believe he does.

i just. i have a hard time, after watching this show over and over again and finding ed's anger to be a reasonable response to some very difficult situations, seeing people say they think those reasonable responses are indicative of anger issues. i've heard the arguments, and i just don't agree. and the question of why i don't agree really comes down to: am i subconsciously over-correcting for racial stereotypes and flattening the complexity of a character of color, or are other people reading ed's anger as more extreme than it is due to subconscious racial bias?

and that's. really not a question i think any of us are ever going to be able to answer.

EDIT 7/8/23: A QUICK POST ABOUT THIS POST

[everythingsinred]

Family and the Institution of Alice Academy

Was thinking about this ever since someone (I forgot specifically who, sorry) posed a question like this in the GA discord, asking about (I think) Natsume's extended family or something like that. It was a really interesting concept that I've been thinking a lot about since it was brought up, so here are the thoughts I've accumulated. I'll try to be concise but I have a LOT of thoughts and my brain is messy.

My general opinion at the end of all this thinking I did is that I don't think Academy students typically have very close familial ties after graduating.

I think the most apparent reason for that would be that students are expected to graduate when they are twenty years old. Our main four are exceptions to the rule, coming to the Academy pretty late in life. Most children are taken early, as toddlers or even babies. Natsume, Ruka, and Hotaru's families did all they could to avoid Academy scouting. Mikan was entirely accidental--if she had never met Hotaru, she might have never even found out she was an Alice to begin with. That being said, most kids were separated from their families at a very young age, only to be allowed to reunite with them once they're already adults. For many students, they've been away from their parents for close to two decades.

On top of that, the Academy doesn't allow visitations or phone calls and severely restricts letter communications. Only one child from each class is allowed to return home for one week each year, and that one week does not do much to make up for all the time spent at school.

My point is that by the time students are allowed to see their families again, that familial bond has already been severed, for all intents and purposes. That feeling of closeness and protection no longer exists. Students will feel more closeness and connection to their classmates and even to their teachers than to their parents or siblings, and as a result, I can imagine many graduates not even bothering to visit their families.

While I was pondering this, I made the connection between Academy students and the real life example of a similar situation with Janissaries from the Ottoman Empire. Basically, Janissaries were children stolen from the subjugated people under Ottoman rule. They were taken for the purpose of a "child levy", also known as a "blood tax." Some children were even willingly given by their families due to the possibility of socially advancing, and because the children were promised first class status (sound familiar?). Essentially the children were taken, forced to comply with Ottoman standards and traditions (including forced conversions and circumcisions), and then trained for military service. These soldiers would actually end up being incredibly loyal and efficient, despite likely never seeing their families again.

(Edit: forced circumcisions are particularly heinous when you consider that the children were typically at least 10 years old at the time they were taken.... so.... uh.... not pleasant.... But also interesting that the Janissaries were typically much older than the Alice children at the time of being taken.)

That level of separation doesn't endear ties; it severs them. These Janissaries--very often forcefully taken from their families--ended up growing up with very little connection to their parents or siblings. The feeling of belonging to their previous communities was gone. Absence does not always make the heart grow fonder. This was done as a means of creating a strong military force but also to disillusion subjugated communities and tear away their hope. Their children could always be taken; their communities could always be crushed, even without the use of physical force. It's a very effective tool to oppress a group of people.

(There's actually a lot of similarities between Academy children and Janissaries beside the separation of children from their families. They were also paid for their service and were high ranking; the Academy students are given an allowance and many of them, despite being stolen from their families, have a sense of superiority over non-Alices. They feel like they are treasures, and are of higher value and rank. Additionally, Academy students, especially in the DA class, are highly trained and efficient child soldiers, much like the Janissaries. Janissaries are actually a super interesting historical topic and are worth looking into!)

We can even see the effect of this distance when Yuka escapes the Academy and runs away to her family. Yuka was essentially sold to the Academy, with her parents trading her in exchange for money and status. She was very young, far too young to really understand that her parents had abandoned her. As a result, she romanticized her bond with them, and the longer she was separated from them, the more that bond became fantastical. She made many attempts to escape the school to reunite with her parents and she fantasized about seeing them again. When she finally is able to, it's nothing like she imagined. They're cold, and unfamiliar. They don't recognize her. She doesn't know her brothers. They're related, but there's no real connection.

"I shouldn't have come here."

Yuka's is an extreme example, but I'm sure she's not an exception. For most Academy students, the almost 20 years of separation from their parents would be too much to ignore. They would not recognize each other, or be close. I'm sure many parents did not sell their children like Yuka's family did, but the bond between child and family had not been nurtured the way it should have been, resulting in coldness and distance.

Because of that, I doubt most students even bother seeking their families out, or even if they do, it's to visit a few times before starting a new life with a career. That familial bond, now broken, is difficult to repair. The connections people often feel with their families or hometowns is something Academy students instead feel with each other. They are all Alices, all in the same boat together. That feeling of superiority that many kids feel means they view each other as on the same level, and I'm sure that could interfere with family connection as well.

Thus, I don't think there's many multigenerational Alice families out there with close bonds. I don't think families like Natsume's have strong ties with grandparents and aunts and uncles and cousins. Even the sibling bonds at the Academy are stunted, with the Imai and Shouda siblings being the prime examples of that.

The Imai siblings have a significant age difference, yes, but additionally the Imai parents had a very different approach to Hotaru after seeing what happened with Subaru. They refused to hand her over as easily, wanting to show her important things in life and build happy memories for as long as they could. Even when Hotaru does enter the school, it's more than six months before she even comes across her brother, since the high school and elementary school are not integrated with each other and they do not belong to the same ability class. Similarly, the Shouda siblings are in different ability classes but they have a much smaller age gap. Despite this, Sumire refers to her brother very respectfully, indicating that there isn't a particular closeness.

The Imais fight against this divide, and put in genuine effort into rebuilding their relationship, but it's a difficult process, and one they struggle to admit to for a long time and for various reasons. Familial closeness is not encouraged, not even within the Academy.

(Though Natsume's bond with Aoi is exploited and the school does rely on him caring for her to take advantage of him, but ultimately he is kept from seeing her. Thus, that bond is also severed despite being exploited.)

Additionally, it would make sense to me if many Alice graduates decided to, upon having children, avoid scouting, like Natsume's parents did, and thus ended up moving around a lot to escape Academy notice. Moving around like that and laying low means that you're not going to be hosting huge family reunions or inviting relatives over often, even if all the other points were moot.

Finally, I think all this creates further obstacles for Yuka's wish to "have a family." At some point she says that, for normal people, the desire to settle down with someone and start a family is a pretty modest goal, but for Alices it's almost impossible. Escaping from the school, or even graduating, is a struggle. And you can have a kid, but it's likely that child will be taken from you, just as you were taken, and by the time the child graduates, they will have no connection with you. Wanting to be a potential grandparent, for example, might seem like a definite impossibility, since being a real parent is impossible.

It's even more proof that the Academy exists as an institution to subjugate and undermine Alices, as children and then as parents. Ultimately, an Alice never has control, not as a child and not even as an adult. The pain doesn't end once you've graduated; in fact, it never does.

[canarybell]

"He's too pure of a heart to be anybody's bit on the side" line is a little bit funnier if you consider that:

You can be "pure of a heart" and still be somebody's "bit on the side" - for example, if you don't know your partner has a permanent partner they cheat on with you. Of course, for Nina it will mean some nasty things about Crowley, but she already assumed he's cheating, so....

From some point of view (from Heaven's perspective, at least) Aziraphale has been cheating on Heaven with Crowley, and he did it successfully for a very long time, before being caught and leaving Heaven. All while doing the same thing cheating people would do - lying, making up excuses of why he was in a places he shouldn't have been, lying again, swearing allegiance, fearing of being caught, and at the same time - still having some doublethink and weird attachment to the the party being cheated on (compare "i'm a married man" despite being a cheater to "We're on the opposite sides" despite deceiving his side for millenia).

Of course, Aziraphale is not the one to judge in this situation - we all know Heaven are abusive to him, he never initially choose them, and it's kinda hard to just dump them (considering they are literally the most powerful beings in the world and can get you anywhere on Earth) etc. In Aziraphale's case it's not a bad thing at all. However, he still lied to someone for a very long time and did it deliberately and somewhat calculatedly, and that doesn't really go along with "too pure of heart".

So, from some point of view it's Crowley who was Aziraphale's bit on the side before the Armageddon't....

[trixibebe]

I’m sure this has been discussed before but ever since these panels...

the ending photo that comes when you manage to defeat Urizen in the Prologue makes me uneasy...

because it shows exactly what Griffon didn’t want to happen. V didn’t get the killing blow on Urizen and I just have to notice how you can’t see V’s face here and how he is standing weirdly and how some of the others are looking at him as if something is wrong. Which is such a contrast to the “And they all lived happily ever after.”

[tricksterlatte]

The Online Fandom 7 Deadly Sins

sloth: complaining about how no one writes the tropes or pairings you like and bashing what's already out there, while refusing to create anything you desire yourself

greed: zine and other finance-related scandals with zero remorse for those negatively affected

gluttony: spending rent money on merch, experiencing buyer's remorse, then repeating the same process next month

wrath: anon hate over literally everything under the sun, even harassing official writers and threatening them if they don't make your ship canon

pride: devaluing other's characterizations and ships to praise yours as better, whether through a canon perspective or a moral perspective, when neither matter in the long run when it comes to your own enjoyment

envy: trash talking others' fandom creations or saying you won't bother creating anything because it'll never be as good as them

lust: fighting over who tops or bottoms because of your personal preferences when one, both, or neither could happen, especially when most of these characters never even kiss canonically nor have most people fighting done any of these things irl themselves

[13eyond13]

Could Light be a good father if he has a normal life without death note?

In my opinion, yes. I think Light as a character isn't meant to be seen as an inherently unhinged and evil person just waiting to snap. I think he's meant to be seen as somebody who would've led a fairly ordinary and upstanding life had he never come in contact with the notebook, which is sort of the irony and the horror of the situation and his character development much of the time (because it suggests that the potential for that kind of terrible behaviour could exist even amongst people with good intentions and decent prospects and upbringings and very little trauma in their childhoods to speak of and everything else). It might somewhat depend on your definition of a "good parent," but I think that he would at the very least be a dutiful and responsible parent and take the idea of being a father and a role model pretty seriously. I imagine he'd model himself after his own parents in a lot of his values and ideals and decisions. Probably would be a very busy and hard-working parent, maybe a bit overly strict and hard to please and somewhat emotionally unavailable, but also very steady and meticulous and reliable when providing the things he felt were his responsibility to do for his kids. Even if he didn't always feel like being there for them he would still show up every day and do his part to the best of his ability, because that's the way he thinks and the kind of person he is.

[corancoranthemagicalman]

Just read through @noneorother 's brilliant Good Omens Soundtrack Meta And it brought me back to listening to the soundtrack again.

When I first started listening to the soundtrack, there was one particular track I was looking forward to listening to. And that's the music that plays while Crowley is straightening the Bookshop in e6. The chord progression (to my untrained ear) in the beginning sort of reminded me of Hallelujah, and despite it being a short track it was so magical sounding.

Cut to my surprise when Crowley and Muriel, the track that happens right before the Kiss track on the soundtrack list, sounds nothing like it. I listened to Crowley and Muriel over and over, and still couldn't ear-pick what I had heard in Crowley's Cleanup. I figured that I must have been mistaken.

But I've just gone back and watched the episode again (at the inspiration of noneorother using the scenes as reference.) Crowley and Muriel opens up with the ominous strike of Metatron leaving with Aziraphale (and isn't that choice?) Then it ends right as we cut to Maggie and Nina talking about coming over.

Maggie and Nina decided to come over, and then we cut to Crowley straightening the Bookshop. The chord progression and a chime (again, untrained here) begin, and the track lives as long as it takes Maggie and Nina to come over. It stops when they enter.

Is this a reprise to a song that I missed?? Wouldn't the reprise be listed as its own track??

Then I wondered what else might have been missing between Crowley and Muriel and I Forgive You.

When Aziraphale walks back into the Bookshop, that same track plays again!! Only this time, it has a chorus to it and the progression sounds even lighter. I hadn't noticed it the first time at all. And what I can say is that—well, there's been enough analysis of the Opening Title and actual Discussion of what Went Into the Good Omens Theme. That it is their character themes (because they're a unit!!) BUT there are PIECES of that theme!!! That become those characters!! The lower, more somber sounding tones versus the angelic choruses! And this track (which I'mma just call Straightening Up) has TWO versions. Versions of them separated.

But Straightening Up (Aziraphale's Version) lasts quite a bit longer, I think. It lasts up until Crowley says "I've got something to say." Which, for reference, mean the track includes: Aziraphale entering the Bookshop, Maggie and Nina leaving the Bookshop, Nina passing the Metatron, the Metatron conversing with Muriel, and then landing its final death note on Crowley and Aziraphale in the Bookshop.

With the thought that perhaps this was a reprise, I went hunting.

There's a similar chord progression, I think, in Maggie and Nina (0:32), but otherwise there isn't a lot of similarities. I'd mistake the chords here as just an artist's signature rather than a music theory analysis point.

[Sidebar: But do you know what I did find in Gabriel's Love Story (0:57-ish)? That I remember hearing on my first listen, but am only now committing to memory when trying to purposefully listen for pieces? Not Kind!! Not Kind is in Gabriel's Love Story!]

Anyway, I'm continuing my hunt for what might be another missing soundtrack, but so far I've come up empty. If someone who is more musically inclined than I knows where it is, let me know! Or maybe it's just another missing song from the track. :,)

[comradeboyhalo]

i wonder if cc!bad is just waiting for the right time to drop his character's backstory or if the admins have a greater plan for it (cough cough the evidence is here)

[not-souleaterpost]

The Y-7 Psychopath - Cowardice or Humility

Don't know if anybody cares about some juvenile "media analysis" from me, but why not, especially on a idea I had in my mind, and finally think it is prudent to put it out there, to see how people feel about it.

So you know western cartoons? And Im not talking about "adult animated sitcoms" or the recent surge of "totally mature and bloody!!!" cartoons that in the end are the same juvenile superhero stuff lol just with exploding heads and awkward animated sex scenes lol.

Yeah, just the standard cartoons that people get really insecure about liking, and make video essays about how "actually it is a masterpiece of mature writting". But instead of me mocking this fact to try to hide my own anxiety over being somebody who makes a fanfic comic, lets go with this

So lets circle back to the title of this "essay" - and start with an example - Everybody loves Zuko from Avatar, I watched the show as a kid, you did, probably kids today do it when all their influencer idols force them too.

Perfect for exploring the point then: And that is the point, people claim how realistic and satisfieng Zuko's arc is, how the redemption is both earned and not without hurdles, not without fallbacks. So where is the issue?

Well I remember sometimes smugly thinking "Well what a coincidence that Zuko never actually on screen killed anyone so he never is really a bad guy...' And this I interpreted to be mostly the case of the rating - basically without the restriction the show would probably include Zuko killing what is at best combatants of the defending side or at worst even civilians. And this would probably kinda derail the arc or leave a bad taste in everybodys mouth...

But the question is left unanswered - is it at the end better, that Zuko gets redemeed in a way that is setup to leave out this elephant out of the room? Hell even I felt kinda weirded out about how nonchalant everyone was about the fact that Zuko hired an assassin, like it was kinda played off for laughs, but maybe that was to show "see we are redeeming him without writting out realistic evils like murder!" - still there is a difference between killing civilians and hiring some copyright free terminator.

So no answer? Well maybe lets look at the opposite case - anime, the cartoons that can kinda go away with showing unscreen murder and atrocities. And to bring it back, lets go with Soul Eater (and no manga spoiler this time cause Im generous and because this would open another can of worms, and I'll save that for the future)

Everybodys favorite charachter that gets reduced to one trait that ironically would be kinda problematic if one really was thinking about it in a certain way - Crona. Also know for killing people who were pointed out to be "not evil enough for it to be ok©®™"

So here we have this charachter, with a whole arc of being abused, having the famous trauma™, doing bad because of a parental figure and wanting to make that figure happy even if its in a twisted way, not getting what real love is...

Basically Im saying Zuko and Crona share a lot of simmilarities looked at this surface level. But only Crona has the problematic aspect of "mass murder". And even I kinda felt it being pushed under the rug no matter how I'll defend Crona from slander on the net while being sick both in body and soul lol.

But here is the thing - atleast I see Crona (atleast in the anime) as mostly some kind of child soldier - I dont think anybody thinks that some african boy that was forced at gunpoint to snort coke and kill his parents while being abused all his life, is "guilty" of the crimes in a way that an adult who does it for a less extreme reason.

Still, even if for me that is mostly justification enough (even if I kinda problematise the whole guilt thing in my comic), I still get it - even if explained it still leaves a bad aftertaste

Like even the most goodhearthed person would probably be weirded out if the person next to them would go "Thank God I was saved, cause till I was 14, I was forced to go from village to village and shoot everyone that moved!". One can say neither person is really at fault yet still it is a sticky topic.

And maybe thats where Im going with this - the problem isnt about depicting the redemption or whatever of killers, but if a story is mature and "deep" enough to handle it. So with my Avatar example I think that in a back handed way, it was good that Zuko wasnt a killer - becaue even if everybody loves the show (I mostly do to, shit was fun) - its kinda clear that in the end the writting and themes etc were on a level of a kid show - enough for kids, but not complex enough to actually deal with some things that other works could (and not even talking about something being grimdark or complex, cause nah everybody hates DBZ but that shit was so.good everybody felt Vegeta turning good and dont make essays about how bad that was, anyways that is why DBZ is too complicated for most western fans💅💅💅 ((but thats a topic for another day))

So to come back to the Crona question - was Soul Eater really prepared to deal with the topic of mass killing inocent people (mostly)? Especially when Ohkubo says himself that it was "a show where death isnt taken seriously"?

Cause I think, with Cronas struggle being mostly about abuse, doing bad things because of parental abandonment, fear etc, was it really necessary to add this baggage? Especially with a show that has that many visual metaphors?

And one example that I would use kinda proves my point and maybe implys that Ohkubo also kinda started backpedalling - the second time we see Crona, there are no wannabe gangsters, just souls of already killed people by another kishinegg which is just a wacky bad guy who isnt even really alive himself (and eve. comically survives)

Basically what I'm entertaining, is if wouldnt have been better to have Crona absorb souls that other Kishinseggs had collected, in this way preserving that they do something wrong (but reversible as later shown with the confiscation) yet never having to go to the extreme of "haha check out this wacky outfit our new friend Crona is wearing! Also twenty people were murdered in that church, shit was crazy"

But am I really basically saying 4kids Crona is the answer. Putting it this way lol, I dunno, I mean I like the pirate rap, but just sanitising everything seems off to me to. So yeah I dont even know.

And that is what leaves this whole question like the socratic dialogs, without any real answer with more confusion than before. But maybe it could "start a discussion" or whatever. But in case it was just a waste of time, without going anywhere:

Yeah... Sorry

Also quick manga spoilers as a bonus

This would aslo avoid making Cronas fate feel so cope-outish, cause that seemed to be the real reason - Ohkubo neither felt comfortable ignoring the whole message of overcoming fear and connecting no matter what, while also just saying that killing more people in Ukraine than in the last 2 years was just a big uppsie - hence the paradox of the non ending "I dont want to hurt. anybody, but actually I am evil.and care for Maka only or maybe Im just guiltu or maybe not and Im crazy xddd"

[sunnibits]

every day on this website I see bad izzy hands takes,, starting to think y’all had the right idea just following me and other sexy people instead of ever checking the actual character tag. I need to make a bunker for only me and my like three mutuals who have good izzy opinions™️ and just never have to witness any izzy posts by other people ever again unless it’s some cool fanart dropped through a slot in the bulletproof door.

[pynkhues]

not sure if youve written abt this before but what is your take on the shiv/kendall/roman's pre show mental breakdowns that are alluded to?

Ah! I don't think I have written about it before, anon, so thank you for asking!

I've been percolating a bit of late on @waystarresourceco's recent posts which have indicated that neither Kendall nor Shiv went entirely to college in America, with Kendall having his EMBA from INSEAD, not Harvard Business School like many of us (including me!) thought (he did do his undergrad at Harvard though), and with Sarah talking about Shiv going to the UK for college.

I'm interested in that for a whoooole range of reasons, haha, but what I think is particularly relevant to your ask is that it sort of emphasises this divide between the four siblings, with Connor and Roman having been sent away as children, and forever fighting their way back in there after, and Kendall and Shiv being kept close as children, only really leaving in early adulthood, but also forever having a sort of mmm, close and given seat at the table as favourite son / heir apparent and treasured / only daughter.

After all, in many ways, both Kendall and Shiv were on the same path, right? Logan laid a map for Kendall which Shiv scoured and did her own variation of to try and best him at the journey. Kendall was groomed for a role, and Shiv was groomed to be a perfect daughter, only to decide she wanted to be the perfect son. The effect of it though I think was that both of them spent formative years under pretty stifling expectations, while both Roman and Connor were forced in their formative years to develop a degree of independence because they were pushed from the nest.

As a result, I do think Kendall and Shiv both tend to thrive within structure, and that they both tend to fall apart when that structure isn't there, while Roman and Connor have learnt to thrive without it, and struggle to exist when they're forced to live within it.

Because I think that's really the implication of all of their meltdowns - Roman's seems to have occured when he had to try and work under Frank in the LA office on projects he hated, while Kendall's and Shiv's both seem to have happened when they're too long left to their own devices. It's all spill, right? Just the context of their respective abuse means it leaks under different forms of pressure.

[ignitesthestxrs]

there's something about the way people talk about john gaius (incl the way the author writes him) that is like. so absent of any connection to te ao māori that it's really discomforting. like even in posts that acknowledge him as not being white, they still talk about him like a white, american leftist guy in a way that makes it clear people just AREN'T perceiving him as a māori man from aotearoa.

and it's just really serves to hammer home how powerful and pervasive whiteness and american hegemony is. because TLT is probably the single most Kiwi series in years to explode on the global stage, and all the things i find fraught about it as a pākehā woman reading a series by a pākehā author are illegible to a greater fandom of americans discoursing about whether or not memes are a valid way of portraying queer love.

idk the part of my brain that lights up every time i see a capital Z printed somewhere because of the New Zealand Mentioned??? instinct will always be proud of these books and muir. but i find myself caught in this midpoint of excitement and validation over my culture finding a place on the global stage, frustration at how kiwi humour and means of conveying emotion is misinterpreted or declared facile by an international audience, frustrated also by how that international audience runs the characters in this book through a filter of american whiteness before it bothers to interpret them, and ESPECIALLY frustrated by how muir has done a pretty middling job of portraying te ao māori and the māoriness of her characters, but tht conversation doesn't circulate in the same way* because a big part of the audience doesn't even realise the conversation is there to be had.

which is not to say that muir has done a huge glaring racism that non-kiwis haven't noticed or anything, but rather that there are very definitely things that she has done well, things that she has done poorly, things that she didn't think about in the first book that she has tacked on or expanded upon in the later books, that are all worthy of discussion and critique that can't happen when the popular posts that float past my dash are about how this indigenous man is 'guy who won't shut up about having gone to oxford'

*to be clear here, i'm not saying these conversations have never happened, just that in terms of like, ambient posts that float round my very dykey dash, the discussions and meta that circulate on this the lesbian social media, are overwhelmingly stripped of any connection to aotearoa in general, let alone te ao māori in specific. and because of the nature of american internet hegemony this just,,,isn't noticed, because how does a fish know it's in the ocean u know? i have seen discussions along these lines come up, and it's there if i specifically go looking for it, but it's not present in the bulk of tlt content that has its own circulatory life and i jut find that grim and a part of why the fandom is difficult to engage with.

[the-name-of-the-rose]

"Jason fans make shit up to make Bruce look worse".

Idk, I don't really see that? Like, sure, on average in any fandom there is the bashing fic or post here and there (but depending on the character, if you slap an AU there it can be okay an compelling). But in general I see people being very charitable to Bruce (like, forgiving his actions because he grieved for Jason is all around in fic, as is Jason rolling over and apologizing).

Now, some Jason fans are very vocal about what they perceive as wrong actions Bruce committed against Jason (and that are on page). But even in the case of posts that are heavily anti-Bruce and tagged as such, I don't see people making things up, they are only discussing some of Bruce's actions that they see as wrong.

That's not a case of "making shit up to make Bruce look bad", but of people thinking that what Bruce did was not bad, either because those actions weren't bad in general or just because those actions were against Jason. Which... Are opinions, I guess.

(also, I know that comics character aren't written consistently, that anyone might not agree that Bruce was IC when did this or that, but leaving that meta discussion aside, those discussions *are* usually about what can be found in a comic panel).

[moonyasnow]

Just some Octatrio thoughts, about another post

Ok I don't usually do this but this one take about the Octatrio I scrolled past on my dash the other day has invaded my brain like a parasite and latched on and absolutely refuses to let go, so I just need to get it out of my system or it's gonna drive me crazy

I don't remember the OP's name, but if I remember correctly the post was basically about how, apparently(apologies in advance if I got something wrong or misrepresented the OP's words):

People who have soft, fluffy headcanons for Azul, Jade and Floyd are kids who had the jokes the characters were based on, such as:

Jade likes mountains apparently not because he just thinks nature is fascinating but it's supposed to be a joke for mountains being good places to dump bodies

The Leeches are implied to be a literal fish mafia

The Octatrio are dressed like American prohibition-era mobsters

Jade and Floyd want to eat Azul

fly over their heads.

And I just—

The only word I can think of to explain what I feel every time I remember it is 'baffled'. I mean absolutely 0 disrespect in any way, shape or form to the OP, but I am genuinely fascinated by how they could have come to those conclusions.

My first thought was 'no actually I'm pretty sure people get it' And there are people over the age of 18 who have fluffy headcanons about them too, you know?

My second is 'why can't it be both?' Like, why can't Jade genuinely find mountains and nature fascinating while having it on a more meta level also be a small joke about how mountains are good places for dumping bodies?

Why can't Floyd like Takoyaki while also NOT wanting to eat his best friend?

Why can't the Leeches be a mafia family while still having Jade and Floyd, who are literally still teenagers, be multidimensional characters who have priorities and like other things than just 'haha murder'?

Sure, those jokes and influences are there, but they are not the end-all-be-all of the characters? This just feels like a very one-dimensional way of looking at these characters.

And isn't TWST's entire thing that appearances can be deceiving? In a way I feel like Jade's love of mountains being viewed as 'oh he dumps bodies there because he's a scary ocean monster and has thus probably killed people before so of course that's why' is a very surface-level reading and understanding of him as a character— it just sounds like something some random student who has only seen him from afar and doesn't actually know him as a person would think.

And it's a similar thing with the Takoyaki. The surface-level reading would be 'if he likes eating Takoyaki, which has octopus in it, that must mean he wants to eat Azul too! Because Floyd is big and scary and has probably killed people before' To me it also sounds like something Ace or Grim might think before Book 3.

And, while I'm not gonna deny the Tweels have almost certainly murdered (or at least gotten close to it) people before, in a way it just feels kinda...idk, mean-spirited? To say, for example, that Jade can't just have nature be a thing he enjoys for its own merits, that he's not allowed to have that as just a thing he genuinely likes and there has to be some deeper, meta reason for why. Or that Floyd can't just enjoy Takoyaki and probably tease Azul with it but also not actually want to eat him because he likes him and wants him around. To me that kinda feels like sucking all the joy and interesting nuance out of a character, in a way.

And implying that the people who don't ascribe to the same view as you are kids also feels somewhat infantilizing? Like, it just comes off as saying that the people who disagree haven't thought about it hard enough or just aren't smart enough to get it, and I just feel like that's not a great stance to take in any kind of discussion. Quite a flimsy way of trying to discredit the opinions of those who disagree, too.

I am NOT trying to start any kind of 'drama' or 'attack OP' or anything like that; I'm genuinely very confused— I just feel like one of us, either OP or me, is misunderstanding something here