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mysterycitrus · 6 months

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i dont know who a writer would be who could handle it (more ignorance on my part than lack of good writers though there is that too) but i’m curious what you think a real, earned redemption could look like for jtodd and if you would even want it.

i definitely think there’s a path, esp because so much of bruce’s philosophy relies on a genuine and earnest commitment to rehabilitation and restorative justice, but i also think (and maybe i’m wrong if anyone has comics recs lmk) but i don’t think i’ve seen a comic with the hard work of reaching out and healing/moving on from the past from both bruce + co and jason

i really love his character but especially now i don’t think dc knows what it wants to do with him so he’s in this perpetual limbo where he’s always on the edges of the batfam, a fringe black sheep member but a member nonetheless, still entangled with them

personally i would love either way but i wish dc would either separate him and let him do his own thing that’s not just punisher lite or really actually go through the process of making amends and fully integrating with the crew, learning to love and trust again and all that

omg this really got away from me so apologies for just word vomiting in your asks but yeah im curious dc puts you in charge of j todd’s next big character arc, what would you do with him

i don’t think that’s ignorance — dc is not known for hiring writers who can include and explore complex themes in their comics lol

personally i think the easiest way to trigger a redemption arc for jason would be take him away from the batfamily and force him to interact with other villains, specifically amanda waller and the suicide squad. task force z came kinda close to this, but didn’t push the concept far enough imo. jason’s interactions with black mask were some of the best parts of utrh — i want to see his ideology be questioned by people who do the exact same things as him, and are fully aware that they’re selfish and destructive.

the truth is that while jason is acting out and murdering people, he’s still bound to bruce. he is autonomously making decisions, but fundamentally he is choosing to stay. he’s choosing to be tethered. he’s choosing to care. seeing the indentured recruits of the suicide squad would be confronting to him.

i don’t think the happy family fanon dynamic will ever be possible without ruining every included character simultaneously, but that’s okay. that’s not what jason truly wants anyway.

specifically, i don’t think he’ll ever be able to work with bruce, which is why i find the jason + dick dynamic so interesting. you’re right — bruce’s fundamental mission is about restorative justice, and he would continue to reach out. dick, however, is a realist, and is extremely protective and territorial of the people in his care (tim, damian, the titans, etc) all of whom jason has hurt. jason has been shown on page to respect dick and his position, and simultaneously think he’s pathetic because he refuses to lose control.

for me ideally, he’d be someone on the very outskirts. i feel like dick and babs would be his point of contact — dick because he’s keeping an eye on jason, and babs because she has way less hangups about working with killers. otherwise? i think he’s lost the chance to properly bond with anyone who knew before he died. that’s the risk he took when he decided to become the red hood. that’s the tragedy.

but to be perfectly honest, the most restorative thing jason could do would be to leave the game entirely, and relearn how to live.

#jason todd #dc comics #dick grayson #batfam #the ask and the answer

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disco-troy · 2 years

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it shouldnt be contriversal that u cant just murder people sdkfjhsadjksahf and yet- True you also can't go out and beat up criminals. All super hero comics are about the idealization of violence. Many are about the idealization of violence as a trauma response. Also revenge stories are a cornerstone of human art so even with all that being true it is still a useful, worthwhile, healthy, and helpful type of media. See for example the Count of Monte-Cristo.

Okay, I can see where you are coming from, but I hope this response helps you understand where I'm coming from as well. I will be mostly talking about preboot Jason here, because that contains most of the moments that bother me, and also I refuse to read anything written by Lobdell anymore.

Murder in the DCU is, in general, frowned upon. Like I understand where you are coming from with the whole suspension of disbelief bit, but while heroes and fighting villains are a part of the constructs of the universe, murder, really isn’t? The moral line of not killing is very much still present in dcu, especially for heroes, and in Gotham. Death is still a big deal, and most people don’t come back to life, and when a hero kills someone (or thinks they killed someone - like in the case of Black Lighting) it is very often a big deal.

I think Jason has a lot of interesting facets as a character, and things that people can engage with that are super interesting. He is a character who was a victim, and a hero, and remembered in a distorted way. And that hurts. But at the same time its not fair to put this on the batfam either; the mourning process is for the living, and you are not expecting them to come back to life! In addition, Jason took that pain and anger and hurt and killed a lot of people. I think we should be able to acknowledge that Jason is hurting a lot, and it is sympathetic that he is lashing out but it does not justify the actions he is taking. If have a different interpretation, all the more power to you! But unfortunately, canon does not really back up this interpretation, and by trying to make it canon, it lands in some pretty unfortunate implications.

In canon, Jason: - Is a drug lord - I have a lot of thoughts about this decision for Jason - especially with Robin!Jason being against drugs and his own mother dying from overdose, him profiting from the sale of drug is a little uncomfortable (upwards of 40% of all drugs trade ://). In addition, people act like Jason is some perfect drug lord, when in reality UTrH, Jason is never seen making rules against selling to addicts or anything. He does make rules against selling to kids, which, I guess if they just turned 18, or if an adult buys it and gives it to them that’s okay then? He also preforms CAPITAL PUNISHMENT on people who haven't committed much of a crime other than selling drugs to a 17 year old or whatever. - Blows up a school to prove a point (?) to a teenager - Kills like 81 people? to escape prison - Breaks into a tower to beat up a teenage hero - actually lets just make this one bullet point shoots and attempts to murder a lot of heroes, and like his actual family a bunch of times

I see this pattern in the fandom of defending these actions - Jason being a drug lord, Jason demonizing and murdering common criminals just because they committed a crime, and that makes me really unconformable. Its dehumanizing poor and marginalized people when you dismiss every henchman Jason murders without a second thought. They don’t deserve to die just because they made bad decisions, and especially in terms of drug dealers comes uncontrollably close to war on drugs propaganda.

Its a general feeling I have about putting antiheroes on a pedestal because they can "do what the hero can't" or whatever, without properly engaging with the text and realizing these actions are wrong.

I understand what you are saying about revenge stories, and if UrTH was about Jason killing just the Joker or people who hurt him, I could see your point more. But Jason hurts people totally unrelated to his revenge quest and he doesn't want to kill the joker; he wants Bruce to. Numerous times Jason can kill the Joker, he can stop him from killing, but he decides that his vengeance, him feeling avenged is more important. Jason will not kill the Joker; he wants Bruce to to do it, even though he knows it will hurt Bruce and so many others. He just wants absolution. He just wants to know he's loved, and he doesn't care who he hurts in the process. Its understandable! Its sympathetic! He's been through a lot. But at the end of the day, this isn't behavior that should be glorified and defended and justified. That's what I mean by it shouldn't be controversial that murder is bad. In count of Count of Monte Cristo, you aren’t supposed to think that Dantes blind revenge is good - there is a part in the book where he reflects and realizes that he’s hurt innocent people. And though he eventually goes forwards with his final revenge or whatever, there is an acknowledgement that he’s hurt people - innocent people (he ended up hurting his first love and her son Albert for instance). Jason never has that, in canon or otherwise, and a lot of people talk about him as if he has nothing to apologize for. In addition, Dantes only targets those responsible for his imprisonment, and they are taken down by their own vices which is what makes his revenge quest satifsying; Jason targets a lot of people that have nothing to do with his death. And this isn't to say you can't like him or that characters should never do bad things; Jason is a super interesting character to analyses and go in different directions for! Its just important to remember he isn’t a reliable narrator, and to not blindly justify murder. Anyways, I hope this initial dump of words helps you understand what I'm saying more? I'm in the process of writing a longer more comprehensive post on this topic for another ask, specifically what war on drugs rhetoric entails and its history, but that probably won't be out for a few months.

#asks #asked and answered #im really sorry if my inital tags were aggressive in any way #i was just frustrated about the way a lot of people portray jason and engage in this sort of rheoric that harms real people!!#dc comics #dc meta

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thessalian · 8 months

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Thess vs The Co-Workers

So there's some good news - I don't have to work overtime today and I might not have to work overtime anymore. That is ... basically it for good news in the work sphere.

The bad news? Oooooh let me count the ways.

First off, it's entirely possible that I might have to work Saturday. See, Goblin's away again tomorrow. I mean, not that she does all that much anyway, but given how things are going at the moment, it'll be enough.

The reason I say this is because "how things are going at the moment" have devolved into every other person who even touches the typing throwing all the hard shit at me while meandering through the short easy stuff. See, we have some new junior doctors (YES, AGAIN; we have so many more junior doctors than our current typing pool can handle even if we weren't inundated with unexpected absences), and they are both very, very bad at dictating. Guess who gets stuck with them? Not to mention the ones with the difficult accents, the ones who handle complicated cases, and the ones who dictate unnecessary bullshit and make the dictations longer than they need to be? That would be me; everybody's punching bag.

The end of the day today was particularly cheeky, as I'd ploughed through several longer bits of typing already and happened to notice that someone else had taken the other two, which was great, I thought! ...At least until those two ended up back in the queue at 5pm. So someone took them out of the queue, ignored them for a good chunk of the afternoon in favour of short snappy reports, and then went, "Oh, I guess I don't have time to do these ones; back into the queue they go! [Thess] can handle them!"

(Side note: I only had the time to handle one of them because the guy who did the dictation for the twelve-minute nightmare made such a mess of the block key that I spent fifteen minutes trying to figure out what the fuck he was doing before I gave up, bolded the problem areas, saved it to PDF, and emailed it to him - copied to our quality control department as per protocol - with the professional version of "THIS IS A MESS; SORT IT OUT".)

It's only now that Scruffman bothered to tell me that he was having issues with putting in my overtime hours; that apparently I had to if he was signing off on them. Of course, no one has ever actually demonstrated how to do that on our system, but I think I figured it out. I say "I think" because I don't see any evidence that the applications are pending and Scruffman apparently didn't have time to get back to me about whether or not there were any issues. That's a significant chunk of overtime pay, and if I don't get it in this month's paycheque, I'm going to be pissed. Though I guess if push comes to shove, it's extra Christmas present money instead of extra MCM Comic Con money.

So at this point, odds are pretty good that while I may not have to work today or tomorrow, I'll end up putting in a few hours on Saturday. Just because my colleagues (including the new temp, who I shall simply call Newbie; I have seen that this individual exists, though they're taking lessons from Temp insofar as leaving me with the long bullshit goes) are lazy fuckers.

Anyway, point is that I'm not committing to doing anything on Saturday because even if I don't have to work, I am a fucking wreck right now. I hurt very badly, I haven't been sleeping properly, I have a stress headache and sinus pressure that's probably going to turn migrainous fairly soon, and overall it's just not good. Like, at all.

Don't even get me started about what's going on in the UK at the moment. I cannot even think about the shit being spewed at the Tory Party Conference. I'm miserable enough without the reminder about how much this country hates me. I would love to say it's not specifically me they hate, but they do hate almost everything I am - or rather, everything I'm not - read, a British-born able-bodied wealthy cishet white male, since I only have one of those going for me. I don't really want to talk about it but it's there. Lurking. It adds to the stress, y'know? And I need way, way less of that.

But my Placid Plastic Duck Simulator has more ducks thanks to a certain bestie. So that's something.

#Thess has a day job #Thess vs the Tories

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seths-wife · 3 years

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Theory: why is Seth Twiright the demon of wrath? What's his backstory?

Note: this theory tries its best to be as objective as possible in explaining and deducing facts basing on only what is known in the novels and not basing on personal preferences and sensibilities, just cold gathering of the facts and trying to draw plausible conclusion. That doesn't mean i'm right, necessarily.

Index:

1) Demon of wrath or demon of pride? (Biblical references and discordance of themes).

2) Was Seth a victim of abuse? (Can we draw this conclusion basing only on what we know?)

3) That one comic by Ichika

4) Conclusion

Chapter 1: demon of wrath or demon of pride?

Seth is a really peculiar character: the sin he's represented by doesn't seem to be...displaying that much, contrary to those of the other demons in this series.

Gilles is clearly lustful (basing on the catholic religion definition of it, at least) seen his high sex drive.

Vlad is not really explained but he's a cook so he must be obsessed with food (joke), also his interactions with Banica seem to suggest a morbid curiosity of his to try new foods for hedonistic pleasure, no matter if it's immoral and illegal to eat those.

Marie Annette is a really prideful human/demon seen her few lines in the entire series, like "bow down to me" without any legitimate reason.

Eve...well...on another theory about that...

Rahab is clearly envious when also other people get what she has, seen that she's basically the ec version of Ayano Aishi and a big stereotypical yandere, at least in one part of the narrative.

Salem (does he even exist? (joke)) is an economist so he must be obsessed with money and gathering earthly and perishing goods. (joke)

I won't talk about Adam Moonlit as the demon of greed here as it's for another topic.

But Seth? When in the series does he show unrighteous wrath? Do we see him get angry outbursts and go around beating up and killing people because he's angry at them?

No.

On the contrary, in the whole series Seth seems to be pretty calculating and cold, and he doesn't seem to be really excessively troubled by any behavior or at least he doesn't really show a strong vengeful attitude towards them.

Yes, he might get on bad mood when his plans don't succeed as he expected to, but he never goes like "you'll pay for ruining my plan" or something. He proceeds with his plans, trying to adjust the latters in order to fit the new situation.

Actually, sometimes he seems to find amusing and funny when people try to kill him and unmask (pun or not lol) him for his evil bahaviour, like when Adam tried to kill him and the latter was surprised he couldn't succeed since Seth outsmarted him, or Gammon when he confronted him about brainwashing Miroku.

It's as if Seth finds funny when people are frustrated because of him, it soothes his ever-roaring mind and boredom.

For months, i've thought that Seth should have been the demon of pride because of his attitude in the crime novel and because it fit him better as for the Biblical references:

We see multiple instances in the crime novel that Seth likes himself very much: he loves the fact that he consideres himself to be the best scientist in the country™ as he uses this bunch of words everytime he introduces himself (both as Horus and as himself), also he considers himself to be very handsome to the point he doesn't want to change his face because it would be "such a terrible crime" (i mean, i also think he's hot but Seth, calm down, what the hell...).

But his pride doesn't end with him flaunting his intelligence and hotness.

There are also other instances of Seth's pride that are even more remarkable.

Like for example, the whole matter of Seth making artificial humans (so called "ghoul children") mimicking the creation of the "gods" in the series. This can be considered a matter of pride, as he wants to act as the "gods", he thinks he's able to be on par of them.

Well lol, gods...i always found pretty unrealistic how we got from human scientists with high tech from almost omnipotent beings that can cast lightening wherever they want, make ladies pregnant and instill thoughts and visions in people in a single arc while being trapped inside of a spaceship. This always provoked some strong cognitive dissonance within me, this sounds like a stretched, inappropriate and unrealistic even if they have big tech. That's why i call them "gods wannabe". They're still humans playing God after all.

But that's besides the point.

Even more remarkable is this other line, right after quoting the achievements of other "gods" in the series:

"In that case—

I am the god who creates “evil”.

Seth is literally and explicitly placing himself in the place of the gods, considering himself to be a god on par of the pillar ones in the series.

And this is very coherent basing on the fact he should be the parallel of the Biblical serpent, the demon who thought he was on par of God and fell because of pride.

So it would have had much more sense to have Seth as the demon of pride.

So when and why is seth the demon of wrath since in the series it looks more like he's the demon of pride?

His motive? Not really...Seth doesn't seem to act because of some sort of anger as his main motivation is to "follow his h.e.r.s nature and make himself 'new friends' (his own definition of friends)".

Then i think we have no choice than look at his backstory and see if we can spot some unrighteous anger there.

Chapter 2: is Seth a victim of abuse and angry at his mother?

The vast majority of the theories around about the reasons of Seth's evil are based off the fact that Seth might have gone through motherly abuse that provoked him some childhood traumas back when he was a little white and red mask.

Those assertions are usually backed up by pieces of the short story "Outlaw and lychgate".

Let's look at them.

The most quoted line about this issue is:

“My, and what sort of dish is that?”

“It’s not really much of a dish. You just splash some curry powder and ketchup on a sausage. My old ma used to make it for me a lot when I was a child.”

“Just like mom used to make, hm. That sounds quite nice. My mother never did any home cooking for me.“

Well...from this particular line, fans have begun to speculate than maybe his mother starved him or refused to cook for him.

But is it necessarily the case? It can be a possible interpretation but we don't know how masks work in this series or whether or not they need to eat, especially since they don't have a mouth or a digestive system of some sort.

It can also be that Seth was just curious about food in the line upwards since as a mask maybe he could not experience food, given that he couldn't physically eat when he was a mask.

This doesn't necessarily refer to an abusive situation of a mother refusing to provide food and care for her son.

There is also another instance in which Seth spoke about his mother.

"I often hear strangers tell me that they can’t tell what I’m thinking.

Even my own mother said so, before she died.

That’s why, to get her to understand at least a little bit, I shot her in the forehead.

To this day I still remember how stopped moving, her mask cracked in two.

That was the first murder I committed."

Ok, the fact that his mother "didn't understand him" could have been because of various reasons:

1) maybe she didn't try to understand him and neglected him.

2) maybe Seth became too different from his mother since he contracted hers and she couldn't understand and relate to him anymore even if she tried to.

3) Seth is just too cryptic or changes his mind too fast (probably because of his boredom) when it comes to expressing his true intentions or having certain intentions therefore people have big trouble understand him.

I would go for 3 since Seth also explained that not only his mother didn't understand him but also various other characters, so it's not necessarily true that Seth's mother just refused to listen and understand him, it could have been that Seth was too cryptic or that she couldn't relate to a her.

Anyways, we don't have a lot of info about this but i don't think it is correct to see a mysterious passage in just one possible way.

And also i wouldn't like for Seth to be "he's evil because mommy wasn't nice therefore he's angry and wants to make everyone like him and destroy everything uwu" because:

1) that's a really misused trope.

2) it doesn't properly explain why Seth did what he did in the crime novel, it's clear that there has to be an even deeper motivation that made him do those horrific things: abuse is too much of a simplistic and lazy motivation given his role.

Also there is no specific mention of anger and resentment even if there could be.

So where can we see that Seth is angry?

Chapter 3: that one Ichika comic.

Let's look at this one comic.

It is kinda difficult to understand what it means but the face resembles Seth's human form a bit and also this comic shows a theme of anger against the human creators of the first period since the comic seems to be talking about the second one "in this world where everything is an extension" (the second period is a virtual parallel reality to the first one in the series).

Seth seems to be pretty aware of the first period.

I think so because Kiril (his clone) at one point gained back the memories of his original.

Who? Seth? Pale? (That twist complicated things a whole lot).

I will go for Seth since in the series he's always referred to as the original talking about his "clones".

Kiril with Seth's memories came up with "Vocaloid, huh?!", showing awareness of the knowledge of vocaloid (since the first period is similar to the real world in the series) but i don't think this is an info Kiril learnt on his own but he took from Seth's memories since he was a researcher of parallel worlds and wouldn't have been out of place for Seth to learn about the first period.

So, given that Seth is the one of the comic and he's talking about the humans of the first period, he seems to be angry at the fact he was born to be an her (let's remember the humans of the first period started the her problem for their own personal gain) and in the society of the second period he's seen as a problem because of that.

Therefore Seth in his anger invites people to blame the creators instead of him since he doesn't think to have a free will and has no other choice than being evil because of those humans who "made him this way".

Funny how the same topic is faced with Irina and Levia in the duel. And funny how Levia in this series seems to also be a victim of her own pulsions and can't really be a moral authority in this, again, gods wannabe. They have their morals inspired by their originals who made their avatars who have tainted them with a virus, so they can't create, define or judge good and evil themselves.

So funny.

Chapter 4: conclusions.

So i think this is a plausible reason Seth might be the demon of wrath. But still, i wonder how it is that Seth is happy later on to follow those pulsions he thinks he can't control (given by humans) and doesn't try to fight back the instincts.

Maybe he accepted and got happy with his disease or he just resigned that that was his destiny thinking that he had no choice.

I don't know if i will make anymore theories after this, since i want to go on and make content for something else.

#evillious chronicles #evillious #seth twiright

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jostenneil · 3 years

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Hi, same anon who asked about Dixon's anti-abortion rant in comics? This isn't about Dixon, but have you heard of Frederick Wertham? In the 50's, he wrote a series of papers that the US later used as basis to create the Comics Code Authority. At the time, (don't take my word for it) single men could not adopt children and it was mostly couples who could do so, and later on, DC got accused of nasty stuff in the 1980's similar to what Wertham wrote. This might explain why DC's so adamant on (1/2)

(2/2) pairing Bruce in a romantic relationship, being constantly obsessed with Bruce's masculinity, and destroying his relationships with his adopted kids. Like, yeah the 50's and 80's were different eras, but they had far-reaching consequences on this character and media in general. And, I also feel like this is further seen with the other superfamilies? Not that they're stereotypically conservative, but many of them do seem rooted in that and this goes in tandem with the lone warrior thing

SO like i said in that ask a few hours ago, yeah, i read about the seduction of the innocent a while ago and it was really fascinating tbh! the impact on and perception of selina specifically was hilarious, like they thought she was antifeminine and homosexual and what do you know! there are some post-crisis interpretations of her that actually took those qualities into account, which i think is nice in an ironic sort of way, bc obv we'll never know if those developments were actually responses to things wertham said decades ago. with regards to bruce and dick, at least according to some of the articles i was reading, there was a misconception that aunt harriet was added to the adam west show to throw off the alleged homo vibes from their chemistry on the show due to wertham's papers, but his papers were released more than a decade prior to her appearance so it seems there's a consensus she was added for other, unrelated reasons. i definitely think the desire to portray heteronormativity as some moral pinnacle has influenced comics at large, but it's also interesting how that's impacted bruce over the years bc i think for him it's actually a bit different. with denny o'neil's era of writers esp i think they were just so focused on the idea of a lone, vengeful knight committed to his cause that they were uninterested in a romance that lasted and capitalized on the interest readers would have in a dark, brooding hero. and so for about twenty or thirty years you had a bruce who was still somewhat balancing his relationships with dick and jason but who was also constantly thrown into shadow bc his romantic relationships never quite panned out properly. and then we began to move into the dixon era of comics and really build the bat family at large, and that to me lasted as a pretty important focus into the last few years before the reboot despite bruce still having romantic pursuits here and there. the reboots to me (esp rebirth) really shifted things with the imbalance between bruce's family life and his romantic life bc of how comics canon was shifted and changed to sort of paint a new canvas. it shook the foundations of previously established relationships and so where writers wanted to make new ground they did, and i think with bruce that's where romance finally became a primary element rather than a secondary one bc the writers who had pushed for that image of him as a lone knight who would always put justice before self serving romantic pursuits, had kind of phased out and been replaced with a new generation of writers. there's actually interviews here and there from some of denny o'neil's proteges too (rucka and grayson in particular, as much as i dislike the latter) about how once he left it was just a years long process of editorial driving out every last o'neil protege they could so they could exact their own agenda

#asks #mine:media analysis

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joachimnapoleon · 3 years

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May I ask you the question on a rather delicate topic (which bothers me from time to time, when I stumble upon Murat’s mentions in Poniatowski’s biographies etc.)? It is often repeated that they resembled each other in some areas, like their love for parties, dances, horses and women...

So my question will be on that, latter topic.

We all know about Caroline, but what about other women in Joachim’s life? Did he have other significant “love interests”? Was Caroline the first woman he proposed to? Did he... cheat on her???

If you know anything on the topic could you please share it with us? ))) (Because I am very curious why did prince Murat earn such a reputation ;)

Thanks in advance!

Oooh this is going to be a fun one. :)

Murat did acquire quite a reputation for womanizing. Napoleon would say on Saint Helena that Murat "needed women like he needed food." On another occasion (and for some reason Napoleon returned to the subject of Murat's sex life on numerous occasions) he exclaimed "How many mistakes did Murat not commit in order to establish his headquarters in a chateau where there were women! He needed them every day, so I readily tolerated a general having a whore with him, in order to avoid this inconvenience." (From Gourgaud's diary, 3 April 1817.) Apparently Napoleon was quite fixated on this subject because Bertrand records similar remarks from him in an undated note assumed to be from some time in 1820: "Murat supposedly needed a woman each night, but every woman was good to him, and nothing stopped him, whether she had the pox or not." (Vol. 2 of Bertrand's Cahiers de Sainte-Hélène, pg 438) Which is likely a reference to one of Murat's more well-known mistresses, Madame Ruga, a lawyer's wife, whom he met (and possibly fell in love with) in Brescia.

But I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. We'll get back to Madame Ruga.

Murat's early life is very poorly documented. Some of his early biographers allude vaguely to him womanizing while he was still a student in the seminary, and even claim that he fought a duel over a young woman before abandoning the seminary to become a soldier. Take it all with a grain of salt. The first actual evidence of Murat having an attachment to a woman, lies in his letters referencing a young woman named Mion Bastide, from his hometown. It's hard to tell how deep his feelings for her ran; he repeatedly asks his older brother for news of her--and also what her "intentions" are, and if she is flirting with the young men of La Bastide while he is away on his military duties. Perhaps they had spoken of marriage at some point while he'd been home. Anyway, he eventually got tired of her not responding to him and moved on. While a captain in the chasseurs à cheval, he apparently had an affair with a woman named Eléonore; I haven't come across any details about this, but his attachment to her was strong enough that he kept a pocketwatch with "Joachim Murat, capitaine de chasseurs à cheval: Eléonore to Joachim - do not forget her" inscribed inside; he only relinquished this watch during the 1812 campaign, as a gift to a Cossack.

During the Italian campaign, Murat had affairs with two men's wives; the aforementioned Madame Ruga, and one Madame Ghirardi (more on her shortly). Madame Ruga is described in Desaix's notes as "young, pretty; wife of a lawyer; like all the Milanese, loving pleasures, having suffered from the venom"--"the venom" (le venin) being a tactful way of saying she'd had venereal disease, which she soon passed on to Murat. "Murat is ill," Napoleon writes to Josephine on 22 July 1796; "the goddess of the ball, Mme Ruga, properly gave him une galanterie," which is another lovely old-fashioned euphemism for giving someone VD. Napoleon continues that Murat "is furious; he wants to put his adventure in the gazettes." But in typical Murat fashion, his fury burned out quickly, and he seems to have been quite infatuated with Mme Ruga--he continued the affair, which is probably what spawned Napoleon's later disgusted recollection on Saint Helena. He even temporarily neglected his duties, until Napoleon sent him a mild reprimand, to which Murat replied with indignation. "I have never had any idea which could be the least disfavorable to you," Napoleon responded drily on 21 June 1797, "but I thought that you were more necessary to your division than to your mistress in Brescia." When Murat was sent back to Italy in 1800--months after marrying Caroline--there's a very good likelihood that he resumed his affair with Mme Ruga. At any rate, they maintained contact for some time; she delivered a letter to Eugène de Beauharnais for him in 1805.

Now on to Mme Ghirardi. Apparently he also met this woman, wife of a General Lechi, in Brescia. Eventually Napoleon sent Murat to Rastadt for peace negotiations at the end of the Italian campaign. According to an article in the January 1908 Revue Napoléonienne, this is what happened next:

But Murat's conquest does not intend to let him go. Desperate to hold him back, she follows him. The beauty flees from Brescia, crosses the Alps and falls into Strasbourg; when Murat returns from Rastadt to Paris, she settles there with him and stays in the same hotel, rue des Capucins-Neufs, number 20. The adventure here is complicated by a comic novel. The husband, worthy and notable citizen of Brescia, makes a lot of noise about his misadventure and instantly demands the lost object. He brings his complaint to Milan; he comes as far as Paris to address a mournful petition to the Directory. He begs Barras and his colleagues to set themselves up as defenders of outraged morality: "Put this young woman betrayed by a vile seducer on the path of righteousness and virtue, give a mother to an innocent child; it is an honest husband who asks for this act of justice. He will be able to publish it throughout the Cisalpine and to his fellow citizens who expect it from you." (...) A singular crossover facilitated the outcome. While the husband brought his action in Paris for restitution of wife, Murat, perhaps judging that the follies of youth should not be prolonged, adopted the part of bringing the fugitive back to Brescia and resuming his military career in Italy.

Napoleon writes to Berthier to inform him that Murat is coming back to Italy to return "this heroine of Brescia," take a vacation in Rome, and then rejoin the army. And that is the last we know of Mme Ghirardi and her affair with Murat.

The short answer to your question as to whether Murat cheated on Caroline is, unfortunately, yes.

And, not to make excuses for him, but it's hard to see it turning out otherwise given that Murat was pretty set in his ways by the time of his marriage. He had long since gotten into the habit of flitting from one woman to another, and he was in his early thirties when he finally married. On top of that, his military duties made it inevitable that he would spend long periods far away from Caroline--which he did--and I just don't think he had either the self-control or the interest in remaining faithful after awhile.

(I'm just going to excerpt this next part from a post I did on Murat's relationship with Caroline awhile back, since it fits in perfectly here.)

They endured a long period of separation very early in their marriage–the first of many, adding up to several total years spent apart between 1800 and their final parting in May of 1815. Murat was sent to take command of a force in Italy in November 1800 while Caroline was pregnant with their first child; they did not see each other again until May of the following year. There are a couple of letters within Murat’s published correspondence that hint that, though he at first attempted to remain faithful to his wife during this interim, he may have given up on the endeavor prior to their reunion. The diplomat Charles Alquier, who befriended Murat in Italy, wrote to him in April 1801, lamenting not being able to spend a few days with him in Florence, teasing that he “would like to witness your gallant successes there and hear you talk about your marital fidelity, without believing it in the slightest.” The following month, after the arrival of Caroline, Alquier teases Murat again along these lines, in a postscript that reads “It was about time that Madame Murat arrived in Florence, or your hard-pressed fidelity was about to escape you.” He had almost certainly resumed his affair with Madame Ruga during this period.

There is a rather fascinating little affair that takes place early in 1806, in which Napoleon and Murat were having a simultaneous affair with a young woman named Éleonore Denuelle de la Plaigne, who was staying with the Murats at Neuilly at the time. Napoleon abruptly put an end to his affair with her when he discovered that she was also sleeping with Murat. Éleonore gave birth to a baby boy at the end of the year, and Napoleon believed the child was probably Murat's--up until he saw the boy in person prior to embarking for Saint Helena. What's particularly fascinating to me about this episode is the fact that Caroline pretty much arranged this affair for her brother--the Bonaparte siblings were so hell-bent on getting Napoleon to divorce Josephine by this point that some of them were acting like glorified pimps, hooking Napoleon up with girls left and right in hopes that he'd eventually produce a baby and prove that he wasn't to blame for the lack of an heir. But the timing of Murat, a man of proven fertility (he had four children by now), swooping in to plant a few seeds of his own at the same time that he undoubtedly knew Napoleon was bedding Éleonore just... let's just say I have theories about this. Suffice to say I think the Murats' sexual dynamic took some interesting twists and turns, and I'm fairly convinced that they each weaponized the other's sexuality on occasion--the Éleonore affair being the first example, and Caroline's affair with Metternich later on being another. This is totally, 100% my own personal theory and there's no way in hell to prove it either way, it's just my own reading of the situation given my current understanding of the personalities involved.

Anyway. The interesting thing about Murat's alleged affairs is that so few of his mistresses have been written of by name, the ones above being the exceptions. I've seen it written that he had a brief fling with the actress Mademoiselle Georges--who also allegedly had a short affair with Napoleon--but it's another one of those things that isn't well-sourced, at least from what I've found so far. As for his mistresses in Naples, I haven't come across the name of a single one. General Guglielmo Pépé only refers to them in the most general terms, remarking that King Joachim considered it dishonorable to refuse to grant a woman a favor "even were she not his mistress," and that he was especially susceptible to the "entreaties of the ladies about the Court". He also recounts Murat telling him once that "The Queen does not much like my giving audience to ladies," to which Pépé rejoined, "I pity the Queen if she notices the gallantries of Your Majesty." But I do find it extremely interesting that there seems to be absolutely no information whatsoever on any of Murat's alleged mistresses in Naples, which makes me wonder if his reputation in that area might be a bit exaggerated and if a lot of his so-called "gallantries" were simple flirtations. He never stopped being a massive flirt or enjoying having women's eyes on him. "He was very vain," Madame Fusil, an actress who met him in 1812, wrote of him, "and he liked women to watch out for him."

I hope I didn't forget anything! And thanks for the ask! ^_^

#asks #Joachim Murat #Caroline Murat #Caroline Bonaparte #Napoleon #Napoleon Bonaparte

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whetstonefires · 4 years

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Do you think the DC fandom maybe, Infantilizes Tim a little too much? Like for a rich kid character who's main trauma for a long time was a getting left home alone too much there's an oddly amount of meta abt how much how much his parents hurt him~ compared to, y'know the two poor characters who grew up with physically abusive dad's+druggie mom's, or the two that were raised assassin cult's, etc

…well, yeah, I do kind of think that? His whole schtick for so long was being too old for his age in ways that didn’t sacrifice his jokey, relatable teenager energies. It’s weird how little of that we see anymore, sometimes.

And then DC broke him and discarded him and he’s sort of awkwardly hanging around getting reimagined as more woobie with every fan generation. It is weird!

But tbh I do get it. And I think the reason his parents’ failure of him and his vulnerability get played up so much, and Jason and Steph’s sufferings (while used a lot for things like motivation and context) not dwelt on quite so much in the same lugubrious style, are kind of the same reason.

Which is that canon didn’t commit to it. Jason and Steph’s experiences with bad parenting were foregrounded and retconned more dramatically awful several times. (There’s some definite classism in how that was approached imo, and I’m never budging on being mad about DC retconning out Catherine being sick and then ignoring her forever in all Jason characterization because a drug death invalidates a person ig, great message during the opioid crisis guys.)

They engaged and coped with it–Steph (and Cass, our #1 canon batfam parental abuse victim) pretty directly, Jason a little less so because of the dubious and fluctuating canon status of most of the content more specific than ‘poverty, homelessness, theft, parental drugs and crime in there somewhere,’ so most of his parent issues have been focused on Bruce. He sure has dug into them tho. 😂 Rarely well or productively, thanks DC, but it’s explicitly part of his character, is my point.

Whereas upper-middle-class Tim was always treated by the narrative as fortunate and unharmed by his experiences with his parents. Even though they were clearly behaving badly in several ways, and Tim showed signs of being harmed by it.

Tim outside of immediate moments of frustration always was of the opinion he was Fine, and Very Fortunate Actually.

Therefore a huge chunk of the numerous everyone who’s got parent-related mental and emotional harm, but has struggled to have that validated and hasn’t responded with a lot of anger toward the parent, identifies with Tim. The only one who’s never really lashed out at his parents for fucking up with him. The one who still needs it explored, because canon ultimately didn’t.

[editing post to put in a readmore because lol it’s long, post otherwise unchanged]

(Dick obviously didn’t ever have any Issues with the Graysons, but he Angry Teenagered at Bruce so hard it changed Bruce’s characterization permanently, rip.)

The things Jason, Steph, and Cass have been through are dramatic, obvious, and fit stereotypes because that’s what they’re based on.

That’s important content to have, but because it’s right out there in your face even people who identify with it quite a lot are less likely to feel the need to work all the way through it again in fanworks. That part’s there. It’s text.

(Well actually Jason having been physically abused kind of wasn’t? I think? It was mostly assumed on the basis of stereotyping and Jason’s not caring about the man much even as he felt possessive of information about his death, which is valid. I don’t actually know what’s up with Willis now, Lobdell did some weird shit that lacked emotional resonance or staying power because he’s Lobdell and has no soul.

Cass’ wandering years are also ludicrously underdeveloped. But very very few comics fans or writers can personally relate to being amazing child warriors with no grasp of language living feral under bridges. That part of her life is consistently represented in terms of absences, in terms of its deviation from the norm and the deficits of normality it left her with, which is typical but unfortunate.)

The interesting things to do with these characters are often informed by the bad stuff in their childhoods, but there’s relatively rarely that much more to say about the fact that those things were bad. They know they’re bad. They’ve had a lot of on-panel rage about it, as discussed above. Steph and Cass both beat the shit out of their dads.

Jason is, in fandom especially, a sort of Platonic ideal of a kid who’s mad about his bad childhood and really bad at figuring out where to point that rage.

(Damian is a whole other kettle of fish, because he’s been lumbered by so many detailed retcons coming so fast no two people can seem to construct compatible models of what his early childhood was like, and even more because he’s still ‘a child’ enough that he’s necessarily in a different stage of processing than someone who’s officially only a few years older than him at this point, but still functionally 8 and also 20 years older, and whose parents are no longer in the picture to continue screwing up.

Also there’s no question that if he brings up an abusive thing the League did, he will be validated by his current environment about his realization that it was in fact bad. There’s a lot of fic on that theme! But it doesn’t have the same tone precisely because it is usually understood that that support will be there if he wants it. Realizing that his previous context contained things that were wrong keeps being made the focus of his arc.)

The badness of Tim’s childhood, on the other hand, was mainly in subtext. Even when we were clearly meant to understand Jack was fucking up, like when he canceled plans with Tim at the last minute to go on a date with Tim’s stepmother, or that infamous time he came to apologize for not being a great parent and got mad Tim was distracted by a crisis on TV so he flew into a rage and took the TV and smashed it and was like ‘that’ll teach you,’ it wasn’t leaned into.

The story didn’t treat Jack as a minor villain to be overcome but like a sort of environmental hazard of childhood, like homework, to be endured and coped with. Tim said things like ‘it’s fine’ and ‘at least he left the computer.’

(And like. It’s not about having a TV and computer in his room. It’s about not letting a child have boundaries, pointedly not respecting a child’s possessions, creating an emotionally insecure environment, punishing minor infractions in proportion to their momentary impact on your own ego, physically lashing out at a proxy for the child…)

Rather like Tom King later didn’t understand about the punching from Bruce, whoever did that story (probably Dixon? I don’t care enough to check) did not understand how serious a case of bad parenting that scene was. That is most definitely textbook abusive behavior. (It’s a hell of a lot more common abusive behavior than being a lame supervillain or shooting you when you screw up, and a lot more specific than ‘was a thug, might have hit me, dead now.’)

And Tim was never allowed to be mad at his parents about it. It was fine. He needed to be ignored so he had the freedom to be Robin. He deserved his dad being mad at him because he was keeping secrets. He complained too much, although objectively he did not.

The universe punished him for ‘complaining,’ more than once. We cut straight from him shunting aside his disappointment that his postcard from his parents was just to say they weren’t coming home yet after all with ‘if it will stop all the fights they’ve been having lately it’s more than fine’ to them getting kidnapped.

He agreed not to come on the rescue mission. His mom never made it home, and his dad was in a coma for a while. And then ultimately Jack died as a result of Tim’s decision to be Robin, immediately after finally deciding to accept it.

So Tim walks around feeling a huge burden of responsibility for his parents’ deaths, and completely unable to process any hurt they did him as real or valid, especially in comparison with the far more blatant awfulness other people have been through, and canon is clearly never going to address it. Or even acknowledge it properly.

Let me repeat that because it’s kind of my main point:

People are fixated on getting Tim’s emotional abuse validated because that’s an incredibly important step in recovering from emotional abuse, and it’s one canon consistently denied him.

How ‘bad’ things are ‘in comparison to’ problems other people have is a bad and unhealthy way to engage with trauma. Okay? That’s just a really harmful framework to apply to pain.

It’s also a way that both Tim and people with experiences similar to Tim’s are encouraged to engage with their own experiences, compounding the existing problems.

So. Not a form of relatable DC was ever actually aiming for when they tried so hard (and pretty effectively) to make him a relatable character as Robin, but an enduring one for a lot of fans.

So Tim’s childhood is a natural target for fanworks in a different way than the traumas that have been made explicit and taken seriously by the text. And then a lot of that got compounded by the way the introduction of Damian as Robin was handled, and the lack of resolution that got. And his current status as not quite having a place in the family anymore.

So between the level of projection encouraged by that context and how relatively difficult to access Tim’s Robin run has become ten years after the fact, this has led to a lot of fanworks on these themes that are based mostly on other fanworks, and stray further and further from the original content.

So at this point there’s an entire wing of Tim’s fandom wherein this side of him has expanded enormously, and he primarily exists to suffer, frequently in ways that 1) escalate to a point that is inarguably ‘valid’ and hard to dismiss and 2) set him up to rebound from it in whatever way the writer finds emotionally satisfying or useful–being ultimately cared for and reassured by people who value him (the most infantilizing option but like, popular for obvious reasons), or unveiling his brilliant scheme that was causing him to pretend to be passive in the face of mistreatment, or turning around and using his genius ninja skills to wrest power back from his abusers, or just laying down some sick burns about being treated fairly.

But not that many of the last one, because that’s mostly done with other batfam members.

Tim’s become a vehicle for a lot of vicarious coping that Steph and Jason just aren’t appropriate for, because they get angry and they get even. And those are stories that exist already, so there’s less scope for telling your own.

And because Jason’s reaction pattern is ultimately so masculine (i’ll make them all sorry! with my guns! blam blam!) while Tim’s is pretty gender-neutral, the demographics of fanfic mean that the bulk of the people using Tim vicariously in this manner are female-aligned, which has over time feminized this archetype of him a lot. Sometimes in ways I find really uncomfortable, like there’s a lot of forced pregnancy stuff which activates my panic buttons. x.x

But, ultimately, it’s fandom. People are going to do what they’re going to do, DC in their perpetual fail has hung Tim out to dry in narrative terms, and I’d rather the people who are using Tim for victimization narratives over the people who can’t dismiss or discredit him fast enough now that his position has been filled. 🤷‍♀️ What we gonna do? Fave’s in an awkward spot. DC hates us. This is the life in this comic book pit. XD

Also if you’re the same anon who left me a callout about op of that weird Steph post in my inbox, or if you aren’t @ that person, 1) I refuse to get involved so I’m not answering that ask 2) those aren’t even particularly dramatic fandom crimes? That’s pretty normal? That’s just…Caring Too Much About Ships And Disagreeing With Me.

Do I also feel those opinions are kinda bad? Yeah. But I disagree with everyone about something. Chill.

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autoplaysdigimon · 4 years

Text

Top Five Villains

HERE WE GO, THE FUN LIST.

#5 Gatomon

Controversial, maybe, to have her be on the Villains list as well, but she was a villainous character for a while.

I’m a real sucker for a good redemption storyline; failing that, at least a turncoat character. While Gatomon didn’t really commit any real atrocities onscreen to atone for later in the story, she still proved a fun villain while she was one. She was no nonsense, efficient, knew exactly what she was doing... if she’d stayed on Myotismon’s side, she could have been a real force to be reckoned with. One of the things that I’d have really liked to have seen explored more in this series was Gatomon’s time with Myotismon, and how much she’s changed since then.

Plus there’s something so weirdly entertaining about a group of creepy, ominous, obviously evil monsters and then a small white kitty cat who’s just as dangerous as them.

#4 Myotismon

This guy.

When this guy came onto the scene, the entire show changed. Devimon’s arc was fun, if a little generic; Etemon’s was very similar with a different villain, and then Demidevimon’s arc came along and we got a fun, goofy villain who can’t Evil properly. Even so, we knew he was following orders from a higher power, and Myotismon’s eventual appearance changed the dynamic from “Team Rocket Fools Children Repeatedly” to “oh shit an actual vampire is going to kill us”. And then the whole Eighth Digidestined thing happened... Plus, that #aesthetic, amirite?

To tie into Gatomon’s thing up there, the Eighth Digidestined arc was one of the best of the season, if not the best. Taking the fight to the Real World made it more, well, real. It was fun as hell watching the parents interact with the Digimon, both good and bad, and finding out exactly what the kids had been up to lately. The kids watching their families getting dragged into the fight was TOP. NOTCH. Plus Myotismon actually knew what he was doing as a villain so.

He knew to go after the one kid without protection. He knew how to cut everything off effectively. He did take a shot at some of the kids when they were on their own, instead of thinking only of killing Kari. Death didn’t stop him the first time. Even when he pulled the classic villain “You Have Outlived Your Use” thing and killed his own minions, it was on Digimon who had already turned against him, like Wizardmon, Pumpkinmon, Gotsumon and (arguably) Darktyrannomon.

(No, wait, they’re still alive because he sent them to his Dungeon, isn’t that RIGHT DUB TEAM.)

(Even though pieces of them were left behind and dissolved on their own.)

(No, I’m still not over that.)

#3 Ogremon

Another redeemed villain! I just like them, okay

Maybe it’s just me, but just the act of Ogremon turning good at the end made me like him. He was a little bit generic in the Devimon arc, though at least he had the feud with Leomon to make him interesting. (Any logical reason to that, by the way? Was it just that we had these two Digimon who could fill in the character roles we’d set out for them? Nothing mythological about lions and ogres hating each other or anything? No? Okay then.)

All Ogremon really did in that first arc was serve as the henchman. He made some... interesting choices, and then he was absorbed into Devimon for power. And then he came out of the back of Devimon’s knee. Sure. When Devimon was defeated, he ran screaming off into the distance, shaking his fist and yelling “NEXT TIME, GADGET. NEXT TIIIIME.” The very act of bringing him back when he wasn’t employed by the Big Bad of the moment made him an interesting character, who had to atone for what he did. I’m a sucker for redemption, like I said, and the best part of it is watching them go soft.

Plus, how great is it to have multiple conflicting alliances within a group? When Leomon returned, even though Ogremon was firmly on the Digidestined side now, he had absolutely no problems with trying to immediately murder Leomon. There’s nothing wrong with that, right? They’re rivals, it’s just natural! He’s also kind of a shithead in general, even still.

Also, Ogremon is incredibly hard to draw. I’d just like to bring that up.

Okay, next!

#2 Etemon

HE’S A MONKEY WHO TALKS LIKE ELVIS, NEXT QUESTION.

But for real, Etemon is such a fucking great villain. Great character all around, I’d love a version where he was an ally or something, but how else would we get the trademark Elvis-laugh-turns-into-villainous-laugh thing that Etemon has going?! Come on, that’s great.

Devimon’s villainous style was one of corruption; he wasn’t all that powerful on his own, but by using the Black Gears he could build his own damn forces and control small areas. He only managed to control a handful of Digimon in the end. He was also taken out by a single Digimon in a single one-on-one, though you could argue that the others had weakened him by that point, they hadn’t really.

Etemon’s style was drastically different - he was far more comical, but far more dangerous. His introduction scene involved him panicking over the Digidestined already being in the area. He sang a lot, he cracked jokes, he threw childish tantrums, and again, he was a monkey who sounded like Elvis. There is nothing not awesome about this guy. And yes, he was deadlier - his main attack can undo Digivolutions and leave the Digimon vulnerable as hell. He ended up taking a couple of episodes to take out, only losing because another villain tried to sabotage him in the end.

And coming back partway through the Dark Masters arc as Metaletemon?! FUCK YEAH. Every pun he made, I laughed at and I don’t apologise for that. Even starting a series-wide tradition, he was stylish until the end.

Also he called Ikkakumon a goat that one time.

#1 Demidevimon

T H E B A S T A R D O R B

Nobody is surprised that he’s my #1, right? It was a close call between him and Etemon, but ultimately I just like Demidevimon’s arc more. We have Devimon and Etemon, as I discussed above. After that wave of villains who are dangerous because they’re powerful, we have one who is dangerous because he’s just a little bastard.

Demidevimon wasn’t strong. Most villains had their huge beatdown happen in the form of a Digimon Digivolving to Champion, Ultimate or Mega for the first time, Demidevimon had his when Patamon reached Rookie level again. In his debut episode. He was never a threat physically once the kids realised that he was not to be trusted. His arc came right after two arcs of the kids being stranded in this strange world together, only briefly separated - and then everyone was torn apart, and he could manipulate them individually.

I’ve argued in the past that Demidevimon was a more effective manipulator than even Puppetmon, one of the Dark Masters, and I stand by it. Puppetmon managed to physically manipulate them with the dolls, sure, and he had Cherrymon convince Matt to attack Tai. But, uh, he didn’t exactly have to twist his arm very hard to get that to happen, and that was Cherrymon’s doing anyway. Plus you could argue that physically manipulating someone isn’t much of a social power as it is more a matter of strength. (also Puppetmon is more of a “play with them like toys” type, but still, being a literal puppetmaster, you’d think that manipulation was more of his domain than a BAT.) Demidevimon, however, managed to:

convince TK that Matt didn’t want him as a brother anymore and to ditch Tokomon

nearly have TK, Tai and Agumon eat poisonous mind-wiping mushrooms

convince Digitamamon to keep Joe and Matt in the restaurant, simultaneously threatening Joe to help keep Matt there and sabotaged them constantly to manipulate them all further

trick Izzy and Tentomon into Vademon’s trap

tell the Gekomon and Otamamon about Mimi’s singing voice, somehow knowing that they’d end up hindering her progress somehow(???)

And, even after knowing that he’s an evil manipulating Digimon, he managed to convince Sora that she’d never manage to activate her crest, causing her to believe it in a self-fulfilling prophecy, even as she worked to sabotage his efforts otherwise.

I mean, apart from all that, I just like Demidevimon as a Digimon. He’s a tiny flying motherfucker and that’s great! He had some of my favourite lines, even his death was kind of tragically funny, and I have a clear bias when it comes to his voice acting, because I just like Derek Stephen Prince. He does it well! I don’t know how Demidevimon closes his eyes like that, though, those appear to be his pupils closing. I don’t even know.

Really, I just find great nostalgia in comical villains. They were all the rage back in the day, especially in children’s media. They’re still around sometimes - Doctor Doofenshmirtz from Phineas and Ferb, the Rubies from Steven Universe, the Ice King from Adventure Time, even Team Rocket from Pokemon are thriving still. Good, menacing villains are great and all, but where’s the fun?

Honourable Mentions

Scorpiomon, who probably benefited the most from the dub’s style - his constant cried of “hey, stop it, come baaaack” while chasing Joe and Mimi are more remnicient of a kid trying to get his toy back from the bully who just took it away from him than someone trying to murder children, and that’s just fucking hilarious.

Mimi, when she was briefly an antagonist in that one episode. Just as I really like Heel-Face turns, I really like Face-Heel turns, even temporarily, and even as petty as this whole thing was. It was the perfect trap for her, who just craved the comfort of home, and who could be easily confinced to go for more. And it was the perfect trap because she was the jailor and the jailed at the same time, trapped as long as her own selfishness would allow. It was one of my favourite episodes.

Datamon, who had his own agenda and didn’t care that he was stepping on Etemon’s toes to get what he wanted. Just like Leomon and Ogremon had conflicting alliances on the protagonist’s side, Datamon and Etemon were opposing forces on the antagonist’s side, and multiple villains fighting each other are always fun to see.

Actually, Etemon later fought Puppetmon as Metaletemon, didn’t he? Wow, dude just doesn’t get along with other villains.

Gizamon. Give them more lines, you cowards.

The Dark Masters, as a whole. Just as Myotismon changed the entire tone of the show, these guys took the entire first half of the show and murdered every safe thing about it. They immediately started playing with the Digidestined, fully intending to off them all right then and there as a team. They were competent, for the most part - only failing when they were forced to split up, and their dirty tricks could be dismantled one by one. I’ve never seen a more co-operative group of antagonists, who never tried to dethrone each other and take everything for themselves.

And okay, sure, Kokatorimon. Purely for this.

Dishonourable Mention

Apocalymon.

Look, dude, I’m sorry, you’re cool and everything, but where the fuck did you come from? We killed Piedmon, it’s over, no, wait, here’s one last guy, no wait he’s dead, nevermind. What?

The fact that Apocalymon didn’t get any fanfare before being dropped on the Digidestined without warning made him seem like an afterthought, like the writers forgot their own endgame until they got there. Even if there had been a mention of the effect that caused his existence before he showed up - a “hey, did you know that not every Digimon survives Digivolution? Their data just gets deleted or something,” really would have helped, but even then.

Apocalymon’s existence in the show really highlights how disjointed the series as a whole is - Devimon has no relation to Etemon, who has no relation to Myotismon, who has no relation to the Dark Masters, who have no relation to Apocalymon. The kids face a constant load of “okay, so we beat this guy and we can go home, right? ...no, maybe this guy??” where every new villain is dropped on the like a hot potato, making their first appearance in less time after their existence is revealed in less time than it takes to heat up said hot potato. Myotismon is the only one who gets any decent buildup before his first appearance before the children, and he’s often said to be the best villain of the show, so see how that works?

Digimon Adventure is the story of a bunch of kids who were brought to the Digital World to take care of one guy, and hey, while you’re here, we’ve also got some sort of demon on this island causing trouble, and there’s this monkey threatening us, and also a vampire, and then these four have joined together... It was a fun adventure, and I love that it could be part of my childhood and my life, but wow it really needed a more cohesive throughline for the story.

I hate to leave this post on a negative note, because it was full of mostly nice things, so here’s another picture of the bastard orb.

Hahahaha, oh you silly little man.

#digimon #digimon anime #digimon adventure #auto plays digimon #auto watches digimon adventure #character analysis

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wafflebloggies · 3 years

Text

A Little Light Mischief

When you moved at the speed of light, boredom was a problem.

Mr. Flare hated being bored. He could find and experience the entire back catalogue of a YouTube channel in the time it took most people to type the first letter into the search bar. Information or entertainment, a good 99 percent of the content he devoured tended to slip straight through his consciousness without adhering to anything on the way through. He could read faster than a panicking defence attorney before an important court date, but books were for losers and it was hard to turn comic pages when you were a discorporate entity with no opposable thumbs.

Cartoons were okay, but watching twenty-four frames a second slapping lazily one over the other like a flip-book moving through treacle made him feel pretty queasy after a while.

It was hard, being the world’s coolest lens artefact. Flare needed excitement, fun, drama. He liked to be in a place where things were moving and happening, bopping along, and for a while, things at Disillusion Industries had been slow, frustratingly predictable. A video would be produced, a video would be released. Despite his best efforts and clear charismatic radiance, a criminally low percentage of these videos starred or even featured Mr. Flare.

That was before the nerd had quit.

After that, everything got much more interesting. For a solid week, then two, then three and more, not even Mr. Flare could have predicted where D would be or what he’d be up to next. He might be spending days rendering obsessively accurate reconstructions of scenes from classic movies down in the edit bay, muttering furiously to himself the whole time, or he might be floating face down in the skypool, butt-naked apart from a pair of shutter shades and one waterlogged Yeezy. It was all pretty hilarious to watch, and when he thought about it, Flare had to admit that the nerd had only ever really been in the way. The last thing Disillusion Industries had needed, if you really looked at the bigger picture, was a methodical, anal-retentive wet blanket underfoot, harshing the buzz for everybody. Humans kind of sucked, it was a basic objective fact.

That was why when the email showed up, he’d been less than pleased.

Flare could see things the way the Captain could, by and large. He just did it better, clearer, and faster. Much faster. He could see the pink-white glow of an incoming message flicking down the tubes and jumping through routers and splitters, and he could catch up with it as it dawdled along, as easy as hopping on a slow-moving trolley. He could see the nerd’s digital fingerprints all over the thing, even before he read the actual body of the email.

Blah, blah, blah. Flare liked drama, but this was the snoozefest kind of drama, just feelings and reasonable statements, the kind that wouldn’t even make for a good commentary video. You couldn’t even leak this shit- nobody would care. Whatever the subject matter, it was another basic objective fact that the entertainment value in people discussing things calmly and rationally like adults was practically zero.

--Anyway, I know you’re probably mad at me, but I just wanted to say that it’s okay if you want to talk.

Ugh. Yawn-o-rama.

If Flare had had a tongue, he would have stuck it out good and far in disgust. The place had been way more fun for the last few weeks, without the nerd hanging around getting nerd-stink all over everything. For one, he’d taken the cat with him, and the cat had always been under the mistaken impression that Flare was a great thing to chase and try to stick in its stupid tuna-breath cat-mouth.

D was way more fun, too. He was explosive and weird- well, weirder- with a mood as stable as a revolving door falling through a black hole. It was a wild ride, like witnessing a very prolonged jet-ski accident in zero-gravity. It was fun. If the nerd came back, he’d probably clean up the entire epic record-breaking trashpile that had been accumulating on the bridge. He’d probably ask D to put some pants on. And he’d bring his goddamn cat.

Flare stretched his digital flex out thoughtfully through the ion stream surrounding the nerd’s message, and wrote.

--Go fuck yourself, fleshbag.

Direct and nicely to the point, but maybe a little OOC. Flare had been in enough serious erotic roleplays in his time to know the importance of properly finding one’s character. He flicked the draft out of existence and tried again.

--Listen, Alan, if you want to come crawling back just say so, but I’ll be honest, we’ve streamlined our workflow up here a lot over the last couple of months, and I’m not sure if I could find much for you to do right now. I should probably point out that I’m not your shrink and I don’t have time to help you work through your commitment issues or whatever.

P.S, you left your dumb cat’s treat pouches in the mess hall fridge. I can have them FedExed if you want, but the orbital courier fees are on you.

“Mr. Flare, you are a literary genius,” said Flare, admiring the message proudly from a couple picaseconds distance. The junction to D’s inbox was coming up, yawning like a highway off-ramp, so he sent his reply fizzing back towards its sender, and flipped the nerd’s email straight into the spam folder, snickering happily as he zipped away across the overflowing virtual landfill and into the real world.

#Captain Disillusion #mr. flare #alan amelik #my writes

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soyouareandrewdobson · 4 years

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Alex ze Pirate Mini Review 3: About pacing and terrible dark revelations played as jokes.

And here we are at the second part of the arc, which was titled “Abandoned”. And just as a word in advance: While “Underappreciated” was mostly defined by the shitty behavior Sam experiences by his crew and how Dobson crossed comedic lines to the point Alex and her crew come off more as abusive than “funny” in the way they treat Sam or interact with their environment, this one is defined by another major issue Dobson has in his bigger stories overall: Pacing.

See, the right pacing in a story is really one of the most important basics a creator kinda has to grasp. He or she needs to know primarily the following things in relation to pacing, when planning out a story: What are major events/storypoints/key scenes I want to work towards to, what happens inbetween these points and at which speed do I get from point A to B, C etc.

Cause the truth is, a lot of stories out there follow certain tropes or expectations, particularly when they are part of a certain genre, so people more or less have ideas when a certain “point” is hit, what the next point, if not even the endpoint is going to be down the line. And people also kinda want to reach the endpoint of a story, particularly if they expect doing so will finally give the protagonists they care for (and the audience itself) some sort of satisfying conclusion.

The one thing you can now do however, which can in the worst scenario totally kill an audiences/readers enjoyment of the story and even break your creation apart, is get the pacing wrong. For example by unnecessarily dragging out your story instead of just getting to the point, especially when people just want to reach the next major beat, resulting in increased annoyance by them. This can e.g. be seen in a lot of fanfics when writers create damn arcs within their own shit, or (to give a professionally published work of fiction as example) the manga Bleach, when instead of fighting Aizen and his two major supporters directly, the “war” against him was unnecessarily dragged out by having e.g. a pointless flashback sequence that barely shed new light on certain characters and gave EVERY damn main and sub captain of the Shinigami a shot at some random villain/minion Tite Kubo created on the spot but no one cared about really, just to make the story arc run longer.

Obviously, the opposite can also be the case, where people just rush too fast from one point to the other instead of giving the audience time to even properly comprehend or explain what happened and why it happened. Which can get additionally frustrated, when by rushing through plot points the work of fiction gets overloaded with concepts and ideas that may on first glance look interesting, but don’t have any real payoff in the big picture of things, making it come off as pretentious in some cases and pointless overall. Like the movie Southland Tales, which deserves to be burned off the surface of the planet.

The “best” case scenario when pacing a story, is to know when you need to slow things down (give characters and the readers e.g. moments to breath and emotionally comprehend a situation they are in, giving also insight into a characters emotional state or personality) and when to speed things up (e.g. when there is a big battle, to know which moments are meant to focus on, but also when to be “faster”, giving really the impression that time is of the essence, that high stakes in a short amount of time are given and to hit a key event at the right moment to get a satisfying reaction from your audience)

And now, after giving a glance on my general opinion on pacing, in order to avoid me commiting the cardinal sin of dragging things out, lets just get to Dobson’s actual artwork.

As you can see, the chapter starts off again with the island, but this time now with Sam not part of the picture and its consequences (no one cleaning up the place in the morning). This is not really a bad thing to start the chapter of, primarily because it creates a nice contrast to the beginning of the first part.

Page 3 to 5 however…

Lets just say I get what Dobson tries to show here, but I think is exaggerated to a degree that kinda hurts the narrative; the fact that without Sam, shit does not quite get done.

The problem is the execution of the idea. See, instead of putting the fact Sam is missing into the forefront, the fact stuff has not been done is. Stuff the crew should be able to handle after a very short time of adjustment easily. I will admit, Talus suspecting they were robbed but then asked if he had also looked into the cabinets, is kinda funny. I mean, it fits the character (and sometimes people in real life) to be so adjusted to seeing a certain situation as routine every day, that when it is slighty changed they may initially assume the worst but in reality just one convenient step of the routine was left out. Less forgivable I think is the fact that seeing how Sam did the clothes the day prior, I have to wonder how dirty those guys are that already everything is left in piles of dirt to the point they have only the following alternative as wardrobe.

Halloween costumes.

…. Ok, why is there Halloween, and likely a modern day variant of its celebration, in a comic set in a fictional world compared to ours, in a time period it would not exactly exist anyway? Christ on a pogo stick, consistency is all I ask for. Oh and of course NOW they realize Sam is gone. Because they finally put together that their daily luxuries they took for granted are no longer available.

Hey now, Talus. You all are guilty of being terrible friends. In fact yu are so terrible, you would make Twilight Sparkle vomit at the sight of yours. Also, why of all characters are you wearing a costume? Unlike those two bitches, you still had clean clothes on a few pages ago. Speaking of bitches, Atea in the middle panel looks readyto be edited in a cumshot video. Just saying for all those “creative” editors out there.

YAY! Lets get our slave back so he can do all the stuff we care about but do not want to do.

Seriously, if Dobson tries to convince us they want to get him back because they care for him as a person, he fails miserably. Both by the choice of wording in this page, where Atea and Talus react angrier about the fact that without Sam things don’t work smoothly, rather than concern about his well being, as well as any behavior expressed in the previous chapter. These people are not reacting like friends in worry, they act like spoiled brats. Especially Talus who could still get his stupid burgers if he, as the cook of the crew, would just do his job. All he has to do is additionally open a few cabinets. Also, where in the heck is Uncle Peggy? Oh just go to the next pages so we are getting this over with.

Oh great, the lolcat pirates are back. Because they were so hilarious the first time. And look, they got defeated again. And what is their contribution to the story? To give information on where Sam may have gone.

And it is here now where I have to stop and come back to the pacing issue. Cause the last ten pages here? They are a good example of what I meant with rushed pacing and how it ruins things.

Once more I need to say, I get it. I get the major points Dobson wants to get across. That a) Sam is gone that b) without him things are not all that good for the crew anymore c) they decide they want to find him d) they get information of where he is by going after the one feline that can provide a potential hint. Four major story points Dobson wants to get across. And he is free to get them across. But the way he does it, is just way too fast. Neither the characters, nor the reader really gets time to comprehend that Sam is gone and what that means aside of the surface level loss of luxury Alex and Co are now experiencing. The emotional weight of Sam’s “loss” is pushed aside for the sake of cruising through the plot defined by its surface premise, as fast as possible. And considering that the meat of this story is supposed to be how much Sam means to the others as a person as well as his personal tragedy, intend and execution, thanks to this pacing, does not compute.

Pacing and overall structure are way off and fail to engage us in addition to just killing any suspense in what is going to happen next or surprise us in an interesting fashion. In other words, I am not entertained by this story. It is not funny, it is not sad, it is not “adventurous”.

Personally, I would suggest to actually use the “premise” of those ten pages and turn them at least into two independent chapters of this story overall, to give the premise actually some meat on the bone. The first chapter being a multipager with the crew realizing Sam is gone first BEFORE realizing that without him their luxuries are gone (putting also emphasize this way on the fact they care for Sam also more as a person instead of just the things he does for them) and then once they realize he is missing, deciding to go after him. Only to realize that when they want to prepare themselves for the task (getting their gear together as well as lunch e.g.) that everything is dirty or damaged because Sam normally takes care of it. Leading to a sequence of them having to experience doing Sam’s work for once, making them already there indirectly in part realize what he all does they took for granted.

The second chapter would then be them on the sea, trying to think of where to look at and eventually stumbling upon the cat pirates. Only instead of defeating them easily this time and getting the information, expectations are subverted and the cats actually fight back first, leading to a more hilarious confrontation where Alex and her crew can actually also show how they can be funny and badass, instead of Dobson just always “talking” and trying to convince us they are cool. And look, I do not expect a multi chapter One Piece like battle against the cat captain who turns out to be a master of Scratch Jutzu or something the moment he sniffs catnip. But please, give me something in this story. Some conflict, some diversion, something for characters to actually do that shows they can be badass, funny and awesome. Something that is as cartoony as Dobson likes to claim Alex ze Pirate is, but has never shown in its entirety.

Instead we get to this page, where of all characters Talus is the one who finally seems to realize how he and others took Sam for granted.

And again, even this page is a good example of terrible pacing. Cause this realization, now shoved in within this and the next page? It would mean so much more if it happened in parts somewhere else in this story before or after, slowly to everyone stepwise. Cause then it would actually feel like a “development” of a chain of thoughts and internal realizations. Instead it is half heartedly thrown in all at once in those pages, to get the point across that NOW Sam’s “friends” finally realize, they took him always for granted.

Congratulations on realizing that you are the real scum in this story. What do you expect from me now? To give you hugs and feel pity for you like you are characters in Steven Universe, all because you had an epiphany? You do not deserve mine or any readers sympathy, just because NOW you feel bad for your terrible behavior. Cause if I did, it would just feel rewarding in a certain manner. And you do not deserve a reward. You have to make things up first or at the very least put in some sort of effort to show me, that you are not just feeling bad, but are willing to change for the better. Otherwise you are in the future still just the same toxic abusers you were two pages ago.

... man, that really felt like me already venting at Steven Universe.

Anyway, we have reached the town where Sam is from…

And it looks NOTHING at all like the artwork from Legends implied parts of the town to look like

Where are the badly drawn docks? The houses that imply this is not just a small village on the beach but an actual small town? The twon square where they sell underaged boys as slaves? Jesus Christ, what is the orphanage going to look li-

Nevermind. The orphanage is crushed. And all the people that lived in it are dead.

... WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU, DOBSON! This is genuinely a sick joke here. Look, I am all for black and dark comedy myself, but this feels cruel. I need to remind you, Alex ze Pirate in Dobson’s eyes was also meant to be a comic for all ages. Meaning something also little kids should be able to read and enjoy. Pushing aside how much of that would be bullshit by the shitton of sexist and sex jokes in other strips of the comic alone, this here is not the kind of joke I would like to see a little kid being exposed to when reading any form of story.

Look, I am not saying you can’t make fun about death. But Death is also a major part of life, which many of us are already being exposed to at an early age. And I think it is important that when we talk about death as a subject in a story for kids, we should actually address it in a “mature” manner the kid may understand. That death, as in the genuine loss of a life and not e.g. an awesome interpretation of the Grim Reaper as written by Terry Pratchett, is tragic. That it means permanently losing someone you or someone else loves. That when talking about it, we should talk about it in a serene manner. And there have been great kids stories who tackled the subject directly or indirectly. A Land Before Time for example, the loss of Littlefoots mother and how he “copes” with it while the majority of the plot still focuses on an adventure to find the Great Valley… that is great. But this thing here that Dobson does? To create a shocking revelation and then sell it as a joke based on the fact that Alex, Atea and Talus react with jawdrops to it? It is not handling the death of those children with any form of gravitas in a story that supposedly is meant to be emotional and play with your heartstrings. And yes, we know nothing about those kids, they are essentially non entities to further the plot. But in context of the story, you have to consider, those kids that are “unimportant” to the reader? For the character of Sam, those people were family. At page 14, we as readers start to realize what Sam finding this locket and going back to his hometown only to find out everyone he knew is dead must mean for him. We, people with even an ounce of empathy and understanding how tragedies should be in part written realize, that shit just hit the fan for Sam and that the story should genuinely focus on how Sam would deal with such a tragedy. But does Dobson treat this revelation with any grace or dignity? NOPE!

It is just a bunch of information dropped on us randomly by an old guy who (I guess similar to Dobson) does not even care that kids died. They are just a plotdevice. Oh and also most of those kids died of an infectious disease where most people die of dehydration after literally shitting non stop. Just to add additional gravity and dignity to the loss of prepubescent lives that should count as Sam’s siblings.

You know, I have to change my opinion on Alex. She is not the worst abuser of Sam. The worst person to ever abuse Sam is Andrew Dobson himself. Cause at least Alex did not kill his extended “family”. And to think this “children comic” was written by the same guy who made a “So you are a Cartoonist” strip where he talked about how kids media can tell more mature comics with more gravitas than live action stuff and novels meant for people that aren’t just children, young adults or mentally stucked manchildren. Dobson, after this page you have no right to call your stuff “appropriate for children” or mature anymore.

I am genuinely furious at this page right now as that I can go on. So here, have the last page of this chapter so I can wrap this up and enjoy some good forms of fiction…

Well Atea, everyone he knew from this village and potentially cared about died in an house collapsing with no one having removed the remains still and he is going on a cemetery. UNLIKE DOBSON WHEN WRITING THIS, USE YOUR BRAIN YOU INSULT TO LESBIANS!

#Andrew Dobson #adobsonartwork #syac #alex ze pirate #sam the cabin boy #fuck you tom preston #tom preston #webcomic #comics #comic review #talus #atea #loss #so you are a cartoonist

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fredheads · 4 years

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Tell me about Fred being friends with other parents as a kid...

i think the parents he hung out with as a kid would have been hal, alice and fp the most. so....

alice and fred were inseparable when they were little kids! they were fiercely loyal to each other and no matter how dumb alice thought freds problems were and vice versa they’d move mountains to stick up for one another or help each other fix a problem. they absolutely did a blood brother oath and cut their hands. alice was mostly too smart and cynical to be into that stuff but she took her friendship with fred really seriously so she did the pact and meant it. she had long long blonde hair and scuffy hand me down clothes and she was a fighter through and through. fred was skinny and freckly and cute and always in muddy jeans or short gym shorts and a tshirt. idk if alice had a bike but she rode on the back of freds if not. their favourite thing to do together was them always doing dumb things that didn’t require money like climbing through the woods just picking up sticks and horsing around or playing sandlot baseball or climbing trees or pitching pennies or hiding in their “clubhouse” (probably just some random bush or log out in the woods) and maybe alice even showed him her secret hiding place thats up to you to say. but i can picture them crawling through various sewer pipes regardless. alice was considered one of the boys and she was always good to be the ninth for baseball or any sport. she felt a degree of protectiveness for fred cause she saw him as more sheltered than her. sometimes if fred had extra money he’d treat alice to a movie downtown or a bottle of pop from the convenience store (which he really didnt have to do because she was a deft shoplifter but it meant a lot when he bought it) and while alice sometimes resented owing him one and slugged him on the arm if he was too nice to her she secretly really liked the days they spent at the movies or in town or doing something special and nice. it was never awkward between them they understood each other really well.

hal was a good friend to have because he could always be counted to be thoughtful and practical. he could also get you out of trouble with grownups really easily because he had such a squeaky clean record himself. hal actually got things done. much like ben he knew how to build a dam and a clubhouse, he would actually do it methodically using knowledge from books (and school... he actually paid attention) rather than just throwing stuff around and making the most of what you could do (fred). he was already learning stuff about cars from his dad and he could handle tools and knew how to build a go cart properly. he was absolutely invaluable because of this knowledge and while fred would have been his friend anyway, hal always felt cheered by the knowledge that fred and the other kids liked having him around because of the things he was good at and he could genuinely help. he was also a good friend for playing cards or reading comic books or doing quiet things. and his mom made amazing snacks when you went over to his house after school and he owned and knew how to play every board game under the sun. (tbh this is because he was lonely a lot of the time and had to play by himself or with the teacher at recess... i wont get into that.) but oddly enough hal seemed happier when he and fred got to go away and play outside or over at fred’s for awhile. he loved his mom and he was comfy at home but sometimes when he was free for a bit he looked older and looser and more confident. but fred never told him this. he had his own bike and while it took a lot of exertion to get it going he had the best balance and could pedal harder than anyone else and still keep an eye on the road as not to get taken out by a truck. so if they ever had to carry anything or anyone important they went on hals bike.

fp as a kid is so interesting to think about. he was unfortunately already a really battered, cynical child and his table manners weren’t the best. with adults he was sulky and immature. with other kids he could be really standoffish and either mean and rude or withdrawn. but whenever he was around fred it was like something magic happened and he became a thousand times more animated. fred could draw out this comfortable side of him that no one else did where he would make jokes and initiate banter and games. he had a mischievous streak that came out. it was like suddenly he was wholeheartedly committed to the role of being freds sidekick and he was always trying to make fred laugh and smile. fred definitely saw him as more than a sidekick though, he considered fp his best friend and equal in the world in a really special way and looked up to him in turn. he would have given him half of his friendship necklace. once he found out fred wasnt going anywhere, fp got more confident in the personality he had when he was with fred. he could still get aggressive, withdrawn, mean, etc but only with people he didnt know. once they clicked they were best friends and they were always the ones to make friendship pacts/oaths etc. his friendship with fp was the first time fred started thinking in terms of having a designated Best Friend. Alice was always his best friend before but they didnt say it. fp was rarely bored doing things with fred, even if they were a lot more pointless and wholesome than the kind of play the trailer park kids did. fred had a way of making everything cool and important even if they were just kicking a can or playing a game of cards. they were bad at egging each other on, however, so they did get in trouble a lot... and they also didn’t have a lot of brain in their heads so they were always doing dangerous dumb things and paying for it. falling in the stream, falling off the roof, falling off their bikes, breaking windows, breaking bones, stealing things, setting off fireworks, etc etc... if fp had a bike it was some rusty trailer park thing and he was just as happy riding on the back of freds.

#we can talk about fredsythe childhood friends now cuz the flashback introduced that they all knew each other since kindergarten #but then said theyd never interacted?#sounds like bullshit #i think canonically these 3 would have been his closest childhood friends #or whatever passes for canon nowdays #canon to my world anyway #canon to my delusions #if i didnt hate f/lice so much id be interested in exploring fp/alice/fred as a childhood trio too #that would be interesting cuz fred is the only northsider in that group #idk if the 3 of them would hang out together.... much 2 think #i have a whole separate set of headcanons if we think of all of them hanging out as a group including mary and hiram and everyone #i would like to see baby hiram and fred also....#this is just gonna spiral into my it au but thats not important right now #thank u for the question i owe u my life #halcooper

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scripttorture · 5 years

Text

Torture in Fiction: The Umbrella Academy: Episode 1-6

I tried to start this saying I was only going to review episode 2 which has a prominent torture scene. Several hours later I am… significantly closer to the end of the series. So I thought I may as well include what I’ve watched.

The Umbrella Academy is a Netflix original series based on an independent comic book. With great acting, excellent music and a cast of deeply flawed characters it was (I understand) quite a hit.

I’m enjoying it a lot more then I thought I would. It’s violent but it’s also ridiculous in a way few stories but superhero comics tend to commit to. There’s a 60 year old man stuck in the body of a thirteen year old after travelling to an apocalyptic future and being in a thirty year relationship with a mannequin. And I just- I love comics.

This series feels very much like a superhero comic book on screen. With all the good and the bad that goes with that concept.

But I’m not here to tell you what I think of the superhero genre and it’s relationship with violence. I’m rating the depiction and use of torture, not the series itself. I’m trying to take into account realism (regardless of fantasy or sci fi elements), presence of any apologist arguments, stereotypes and the narrative treatment of victims and torturers.

Umbrella Academy is the story about a group of very damaged people with super powers. Adopted as babies (born in extraordinary circumstances) by a millionaire ‘adventurer’ six of the Hargreeve children were raised to be superheroes. The seventh, apparently without powers, was isolated in a world of talking chimps, robots and extraordinary abilities.

The story starts with Reginald Hargreeve’s death and the five surviving children (including one who’d been living on the moon, apparently for years) meet for the funeral. In the course of this ‘Five’, teleports back from the future.

While the story overall focuses on the way an emotionally abusive and neglectful upbringing effects all of the major characters I’m going to be focusing on the clear instances of torture in and solitary confinement in some of the episodes.

Both Luther and Five are subjected to extreme solitary confinement. Luther is isolated on the moon for four years, Five is isolated as the last person alive for several decades.

Five stops up in a donut shop late at night and sits next to a tow truck driver. They have a brief conversation and the driver leaves. An armed gang then attacks Five. He kills them and two more people (Cha-Cha and Hzael) are sent after him, apparently by the same organisation.

Believing they’re looking for a man in his 50s they go after the tow driver. They torture him and while they eventually believe that he isn’t Five, they continue to torture him to get information on Five. The driver tells them everything that happened the night before.

Later Cha-Cha and Hazel mount a raid on the Hargreeves estate looking for Five. They don’t find him but they manage to capture his brother Klaus.

Klaus is an addict (what he takes is not explicitly defined) and talks to dead people. The two are linked throughout the story with the heavy implication that Klaus avoids sobriety in order to escape his powers.

Klaus is tied to a chair for about a day and a half. He’s beaten, strangled and ‘waterboarded’. (Cha-Cha calls it waterboarding but didn’t actually carry it out properly. I’ve assumed that was for the safety of the actors).

Klaus escapes and shows no mobility problems after being cut off the chair. He then spends several months in 1968 (as you do). On his return his mental health problems seem to be no worse then they were before he was tortured.

I’m giving it 0/10

The Good

The actual forms of torture shown in The Umbrella Academy are reasonably realistic. They’re not always accurate to the time period or place, but when time travel is involved I’m willing to let that slide. The electrical torture shown, with a battery and bulldog clips, could be taken directly from Alleg’s accounts of his experience at the hands of French troops in Algeria. The stress positions and strangulation are shown realistically. And while the waterboarding isn’t shown realistically I think it was done this way to protect the actor and allow him to breathe.

The Bad

I’ve covered solitary confinement before. The estimated safe period for most people is about a week. While both Luther and Five has a strong sense of purpose during their confinement (and this seems to be a protective factor) that wouldn’t help a lot when they’re confined for such an unrealistically long period. At four years Luther should be a complete mental and physical wreck. At several decades including puberty, Five shouldn’t be able to interact normally with people and should be more obviously mentally ill then Klaus. Both of them are shown without symptoms and this downplays the damage of torture that’s routinely depicted as harmless.

Umbrella Academy shows torture ‘working’ with victims giving up accurate information if only you know how to hurt them. This isn’t true. Torture can’t result in accurate information. This kind of misinformation encourages torture in real life.

Klaus’ response to torture is to thank his torturers for inflicted pain with the strong implication that he’s enjoying being tortured. It’s implied that he’s turned on by pain so ‘can’t’ be traumatised or hurt by torture. This is ridiculous and insulting to both the BDSM community and torture survivors. BDSM practitioners don’t stop feeling pain and they aren’t immune to trauma. There is a world of difference between a consensual and non-consensual encounter. Personally I think this kind of portrayal is akin to suggesting that victims can’t be raped because they’ve previous enjoyed sex. It’s unacceptable.

Klaus is held in a stress position for at least a day. This is a survivable time frame but on release he should have significant mobility issues and should have needed help escaping. Instead he’s perfectly capable of making his way out with a heavy time-travel device. He can walk and move his arms freely. This completely ignores that the way he was held is torturous.

Neither Cha-Cha nor Hazel show any of the mental health problems typical of torturers. They’re portrayed as competent and able to investigate effectively, even though they torture. Torturers are not good investigators and torture consistently undermines effective investigation. Realistically a character can be one or the other, not both.

Cha-Cha and Hazel are also depicted as good fighters and generally skilled. In reality torture produces a deskilling effect in torturers, they get worse at what they do.

Cha-Cha and Hazel are shown as obedient to their superiors, only targetting people who have information or are ordered as targets. This isn’t how torturers operate. They disobey orders, ignore superiors and target a wide array of people who usually have nothing to do with anything the torturers are supposed to investigate.

No one in the series so far has shown any long standing mental health problems as a result of torture or isolation.

No one has shown any memory problems as a result of torture or isolation.

The end result is that the series suggests torture doesn’t have any long term effects at all.

Overall

I think this series really highlights something I’ve been saying a lot on the blog: It’s very easy to find realistic depictions of how torture is carried out and it’s very hard to find realistic depictions of the effect it has on people.

These episodes, and I suspect (from what I’ve seen) the series more generally handles torture terribly. It’s unrealistic and it’s parroting a lot of tropes that either excuse torture or belittle survivors.

That didn’t get in the way of me enjoying the series outside of these scenes. There are a lot of great characters and character moments.

But none of that excuses this senseless repetition of torture apologia.

For a series that works so hard to highlight the effect of childhood emotional abuse it downplays the effects of physical abuse at every turn.

It uses torture as a short cut in the plot. It portrays torturers as smart and restrained badasses.

It basically does virtually everything I advise writers not to do.

And this comes about simply by repeating the same old genre tropes without bothering to look up the subjects involved.

There are other ways to have your bad guys find out the information they need to know. There are other ways to establish them as terrible people.

There are realistic ways to show people resisting torture, which don’t diminish the pain they suffered.

I think what I want to stress most of all is that this apologia is unnecessary. It doesn’t add anything to the story. The fun stuff, the super heroics, the ridiculous time travel escapades and carefully choreographed fight scenes can all happen without apologia as the background noise.

For once- I’m not really mad. I’m disappointed. That these tropes creep into genre after genre, put down roots and keep coming back up. The mainstay of this story wouldn’t be any different if they took out torture or even used it in a more realistic way.

Five’s isolation in an apocalyptic wasteland doesn’t last. He’s picked up by an agency of time travellers and offered a job. This could have happened more quickly, especially since the time he spends alone and the time he spends with the agency are both poorly defined.

Luther’s trip to the moon functions to build a wall between him and his siblings. And again, that could have happened in a much shorter time frame.

Cha-Cha and Hazel could have just interviewed the tow truck driver for their information. They’re shown conducting successful interviews later.

Klaus’ resistance could have been framed as natural and there are several points in his dialogue already that could have supported that. The story could have used the fact that Klaus genuinely does not know where Five is.

In the end The Umbrella Academy’s use of torture is a waste of narrative space. None of these torture scenes are essential to the plot and every single one of them is handled badly.

It’s an example of a narrative that wasn’t prepared to commit to showing the consequences of torture.

We can all do better.

Edit: I forgot the full title. Oops.

Available on Wordpress.

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#tw torture #tw rape #torture in fiction #the umbrella academy #torture apologia #solitary confinement #mental illness #superheroes #writing victims #writing torturers #torture and memory #stress positions #electrical torture

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daresplaining · 5 years

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thoughts on the Inferno arc from Dematteis?

I have to admit, that arc isn’t one of my favorites, and I’m not a big fan of DeMatteis’s run as a whole. It just doesn’t do much for me. The dead sex worker plot point is one of my least favorite parts of Man Without Fear, and I dislike that DeMatteis felt the need to drag it into 616 continuity. Matt already killed someone during his first outing as Daredevil, as established way back in DD #1, so all that addition/retcon/whatever it is did was muddle up the timeline. It’s also one of the few Daredevil stories that depicts Matt as kind of religious, which is a characterization that, personally, isn’t my thing. (There’s nothing wrong with it, of course! I just don’t find it interesting, and I’m often baffled that so many people seem to see it as an integral part of his character, since it’s practically nonexistent in the comics.) And Sir is an uncomfortable villain for a number of reasons, mostly involving depictions of transgender characters in media, which I don’t feel informed enough about to properly discuss. Thematically, their story aligns with Matt’s plotline of self-discomfort and repression, but character-wise, I will say that I don’t find them to be a particularly interesting or memorable antagonist. Overall, it’s a strange, somewhat convoluted story.

On the other hand, there are parts of “Inferno” that I really like– most notably, the reintroduction of the “real” yellow-suited Daredevil as a symptom of Matt’s identity-centered mental breakdown.

[ID: Two panels from DeMatteis’s run. Foggy is sitting in his office at his desk, and Yellow Suit Daredevil is perched on top of the desk.]

Matt: “Better spread the word, counselor: Daredevil’s back. The real Daredevil. And tell that phony running around abusing my name– to watch his back!”

[ID: Foggy watches in shock as Daredevil jumps out the window.]

The identity issues in this arc and the arcs that come both before and (especially) after it are a little difficult to follow, since they are so abstract, but conceptually, I find them interesting and fun. DeMatteis’s run takes place after Matt has faked his death and reinvented himself yet again. He is isolated from his loved ones– Foggy and Karen at the time– and is living a life that is, by design, almost entirely separate from his existence as Matt Murdock. His civilian identity is a con artist, and his Daredevil identity is notably dark and brutal. He has been through two major psychologically-jarring experiences: Elektra’s resurrection and Glori’s sudden violent death, the latter of which serves as a direct catalyst for his mental breakdown in “Inferno” and the following arc. As much as I’m not a fan of the actual reason for this– the Man Without Fear plot point being clumsily integrated in 616 Matt’s past, as discussed– I do really enjoy the side-effects of Matt’s shattered psyche. We learn that he has repressed a horrible memory– a memory that directly impacts his sense of self by making him feel like a murderer. Even before he fully unearths the memory, it causes him to feel like he doesn’t know himself. And this, coupled with his mental breakdown and lack of tethers to his former life, causes his decades of identity compartmentalization to come to the surface and make him literally feel like multiple separate people.

[ID: A panel of Yellow Suit Daredevil posing dramatically on a rooftop in the rain. The faces of other DD characters are outlined in the cityscape behind him.]

Caption: “He’s haunted… as much by what he can remember as what he can’t. He knows who he is, at least: Daredevil. The real Daredevil! The one who stopped the Owl, the Purple Man, and Mister Fear– the Daredevil people admired and emulated. He knows, too, that something drove him away from this city. From his friends: Karen, Foggy, Matt. Matt? Was Matt his friend? Maybe once. A long time ago.”

Yellow Suit Daredevil insists that he is not Matt Murdock, that he is a Daredevil who existed before Matt Murdock took on that identity. In other words, he is a product of Matt’s very earliest approach to heroing and the first Daredevil creative team’s way of presenting his identity. He is, in fact, this quote from Daredevil #1 brought to life:

“I’ll see to it that Matt Murdock never does resort to force… but somebody else will…! Somebody totally different from Matt Murdock…”

This initial compartmentalization was necessary for Matt to allow himself to directly disobey his father’s wishes. It was only later that Matt Murdock and Daredevil stopped being written with two distinct personalities, and Matt relaxed that sense of identity separation. In DeMatteis’s run, Yellow Suit Daredevil doesn’t think he has hypersenses– because he’s not Matt– but he doesn’t know who he actually is. (Technically, he’s… probably Mike. I’m just sayin’.) Yellow Suit DD identifies himself as the happy, upbeat Daredevil, the one people look up to and admire, and resents Matt Murdock for becoming a darker and more morally complex figure after taking on the identity. In a metafictive way, DeMatteis is commenting on the tonal shifts in Daredevil comics over the years, and I love that.

[ID: Two panels of Yellow Suit Daredevil punching a heavy bag.]

Caption: “He’ll stop Murdock the way he stopped Batlin. No more frauds. No more liars. It’s time for Daredevil to be a hero again. A real hero. Not some cheap, soulless thug hiding behind a hero’s mask.”

In-universe, the implication is that Matt, as part of his mental breakdown surrounding his repressed memories of committing murder, is reverting back to that first DD identity– the safe one, the uncomplicated one, the PG-rated Silver Age one who would never kill anyone– at least, not directly. (This in itself is funny, because Matt indirectly killed people all the time in early Daredevil comics, but this story is more about Matt’s warped view of the Good Old Days than it is about accuracy). From that safe vantage point, Matt feels comfortable resenting himself for all of the darkness in his recent life. His discomfort with his own actions causes the identities he has built for himself over the years to literally manifest separately in his mind. This becomes exacerbated in the following arc in wonderfully mind-bending ways. I don’t think that’s how mental breakdowns actually work, but this is comics, and I find it compelling… if a little hard to follow, logistically.

I also enjoy the fact that this horrible point in Matt’s life is when Foggy learns his best friend is Daredevil.

[ID: Karen is kneeling on a bathroom floor, holding Matt in her arms. He is wearing the yellow Daredevil suit but his mask is off. Foggy is standing over them, scratching his head.]

Foggy: “I don’t understand any of this! Matt’s– alive?! Wh-what’s he doing in that costume?! How did he–?!”

Karen: “Not now, Foggy. Not now.”

It’s random, it’s accidental, it’s incredibly upsetting, and it is a while before Foggy is even able to discuss it with Matt, at which point Matt basically brushes it off and they both move on. On the one hand, I would have loved to see more emphasis placed on this moment– arguably one of the biggest events in DD history– and I was delighted that the Netflix adaptation gave that to us in Season 1 episode 10. But I also enjoy the imperfections of the 616 version. It’s not a big fairytale moment, and something about that messiness appeals to me.

#devil-without-fear #Daredevil vol. 1 #Daredevil #Matt Murdock #Asks #Commentary

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fathercharlesoffdensen · 5 years

Text

In Defense of Fat Thor

I not only enjoyed Thor’s portrayal in Endgame, but found it to be a productive and well-developed(/acted, DAMN, Chris Hemsworth) characterization that has been steadily building up across each consecutive movie. Caveat: I do not fault anyone for being skeptical that the directors, etc. had it in them, considering the clunky nature of some of their previous creations, to say nothing of some of their interviews, etc. I am also not 100% surprised to see people maligning Fat Thor, and/or saying they don’t understand his trajectory and/or that they felt some of the humor at his expense took away from the legitimacy of having a fat, depressed, anxious character able to accomplish the same feats as when he had more physical prowess, etc. I disagree with this as well, in part because Fat Thor feels very personal to me, though not exclusively, and at the very least would like to propose a reading of many of the scenes in Endgame that offers a considerably more well-intentioned and good faith portrayal of Thor, with my own caveat that at least the anti-Ragnarok people using Fat Thor to further their agenda that Thor’s characterization sucks because Chris Hemsworth and Taika Waititi spent each day on set shaking Tom Hiddleston down for his lunch money and laughing at their own fart jokes are still wrong, which balances out everything else, because balance is still important, even if Thanos’ fuckboy interpretation of it is ridiculous. Anywho, apologies in advance for how messy this ends up being, I feel like my thoughts are very roundabout right now, but getting it out of my system will really help.

Thor has been ~emotionally fat~ for a while now, folks. As far back as Thor (2011), we see him disassociating, aka spending at least a few moments staring off into space in the midst of dealing with sudden upheaval, often because his angry outbursts have failed to be satisfying or get him what he wants/needs. One of the things that made me so excited to see a physical fallout to this in the MCU is that it actually ties into a bunch of other canons, too, including a recent spell in the comics leading up to the War of the Realms, wherein Odin sort of admits to his own role in breaking Thor, as far back as being “too drunk” to be there for his birth, as well as his being dubbed the God of Thunder because baby Thor used to wail whenever there was a storm, and Odin used to make fun of him for it because you don’t get a #4 Best All-Father coffee cup from your kids for nothing. @thishereanakinguy and I are even reworking parts of our Thorki paper for publication to put forth even more evidence that the pressure on Thor to be the Golden Child was too much, and that he’s been unraveling for a long time.

Again, none of these reactions to turmoil are new for Thor, though it’s fascinating that the conversation between Frigga and Thor in Endgame is largely focused on her assuring her son that it’s okay for him to fail, and/or for him to delegate tasks (there’s a recent comic that’s gone viral where Mister Rogers visits with Thor, and it has a similar bent), or realize that he has to shift his perspective on Who He Is. In part, it’s lowkey hilarious that Frigga, aka “send Loki some soup and some library books he’ll enjoy after our big fight because I still love that little asshole, never mind that he’ll probably receive them after she has been killed omfg,” is so blatantly ignoring Odin’s decrees to basically withhold basic affection from their children so that they’ll toughen up on their own, because fuck that noise. At the same time, Frigga imparts words that Thor (and Loki) should have heard and taken to heart a long time ago, and it’s painful to realize that Thor has felt as though he hasn’t been allowed to express his feelings, but so God damned great that that’s what Frigga hones in on. Notably, Thor isn’t trying to botch his trip to 2013 Asgard, either; he has a panic attack when he and Rocket arrive, and Frigga sneaks up on him because Frigga knows her babies no matter how much they are made of pizza or in Loki’s case magical artifacts. (Sarah read something saying that in households where the Golden Child and Black Sheep co-exist, statistically it’s common for the Golden Child to turn to alcohol and food, whereas the Black Sheep is more likely to turn to drugs/more illicit substances wherein they opt not to feel their feelings as much, and I was really floored by that because that really fits a couple of different scenarios that I’m familiar with for one reason or another.)

SO ANYWAY, we see Thor disassociating in previous movies. In TDW, even Odin comments on Thor’s confused heart, which Thor assures him has nothing to do with Jane Foster, even though it would be very easy for him to pretend he’s not actively thinking about Loki a thousand times a day and spending so much time stalking Heimdall and the broken Bifrost remnants that dude is like holy fuck please talk to your kid or I am going to commit treason again so hard. Thor reaches out to Odin for guidance/arguably comfort once Frigga dies, and his inability to provide either sends Thor immediately to Loki, who at the very least can help him properly realize the revenge he seeks, while also saving Jane. In Ragnarok, we get that great moment where Loki is talking directly to Thor, and Thor simply stares straight ahead; Loki doesn’t seem all that surprised by it either - he and Thor have different triggers and whatnot, but he knows the emo fuck who ends up at his cell in a fucking black poncho and handcuffs isn’t a new creation by any means, and he is into it fwiw. Even stuff like Korg admitting at the end of Ragnarok he carried around Miek’s presumably dead body because he felt so bad that he was dead warrants a little nod of understanding from Thor. Likewise, we see Thor stress-eating a bowl of bread at the beginning of Endgame, before the focus on his weight became a thing. Thor doesn’t run outside to see Tony Stark come home; whenever possible, he’s barely there, even before his five-year hiatus.

The use of well-placed humor in a three-hour sob fest does not seem all that weird to me. Shakespeare does it in all of his tragedies; and to continue this egregious metaphor, a lot of his comedies contain tragic bits, aka loss of family identity, which is arguably something that underpins how good Ragnarok is, as well. Being able to laugh at stuff has always been very important for me personally, though I realize it’s not for everyone. Still, I think there’s an additional caveat with Endgame regarding who the ‘fat jokes’ are coming from, aka arguably all of the Avengers have their own significant traumas to work through even before The Snap, and are also just trying to survive, even if they seem to fare physically better than Thor at this particular point in time. So Tony Stark calls him “Lebowski”; but as soon as the musical cues and Hemsworth’s amazing acting switches over into Thor being triggered by thoughts of all that he’s lost only minutes later, we see Tony, who canonically has major issues with being touched, putting his hand on Thor’s shoulder and allowing himself to be grabbed and held because he knows that is what Thor needs from him. Bruce, too, has to set a boundary for his own personal safety about being grabbed, but still gives in to Thor’s need for physical touch. One of the tragic touchstones of Ragnarok is that Thor doesn’t touch Loki once, even though in the first two Thor films and Avengers 1, he is constantly pawing at him. Thor wants to make a point in Ragnarok that he has decided he must let Loki go if that’s what Loki truly wants, and so he withholds his own instinct for physical contact - which Loki gives back to him, however briefly, in Infinity War by knocking Thor out of the way of Thanos and the Tesseract, to say nothing of how all Thor can do when he arrives at Loki’s corpse is to mewl and cling and bury his head and wait for everything to explode, himself included.

In any case, the other 'fat jokes’ come from Rocket, well established as being caustic in the face of personal tragedy, and having been put in the position even back in Infinity War of sort of making sure Thor keeps going, and Rhodey, who is probably just trying to deal with all these new people hanging around, and the fact that all of the structure in his life pretty much has been upended in a really short amount of time. Regarding Frigga’s “eat a salad” remark, as his mom, she seems to understand how much his physicality comes into play for him, and how devastating it is for him to see how others react to him seeming both physically and emotionally diminished. This is why it’s so powerful for him to still be 'worthy’ of Mjolnir, I think, and why that moment book-ended Frigga’s admonishment. Likewise, we don’t get a suspiciously fast glow-up wherein Thor’s all muscley again. He has to hold his own against Thanos in his current form, and he fucking does. Sometimes, life happens, and you have to respond to it as you are because you don’t have the time or energy to get everything in order first, and so you do the best you can. IMO, Thor did a pretty fucking good job.

I also find it completely understandable that Thor went off with the Guardians at the end of the film. (P.S.: Peter Quill is still absolutely intimidated by Fat Thor.) For one thing, I don’t think he’s going to stop trying to find a way to bring Loki back, regardless of what Clint said about the Soul Stone’s magic not being able to be reversed. For another, Valkyrie deserves her own glow-up into becoming Queen of New Asgard, as much as Sam deserves to be the new Cap. I’m of the mindset that Steve likely wouldn’t have gone back in time to be with Peggy if Tony had lived, and that doing so was him honoring Tony’s legacy by taking the advice that he gives several times in the film to go and live life while you have it. Likewise, as sad as it is for Tony to have died, I’m not sure he would have been able to rest, post-Thanos. You also can’t tell me for a second he hasn’t left all sorts of little messages and trinkets and whatnot around for his loved ones to find, cough AI Tony in Peter’s next suit or something cough.

Overall, I thought Endgame was a good send-off. It was well-acted, well-scripted, beautifully scored (Thor’s Pink Panther-esque theme when he’s trying to explain the Aether is amazeballs, as well as the theme that plays when everybody gets to the battlefield), and really just surprisingly, suspiciously good. I am glad that if we have to see this leg of the MCU end that it did so in such a way as to leave character arcs open to further interpretation, and I’m legitimately excited for a lot of them. While I don’t think everybody is required to be fake-positive all of the time, I do think that in fandom spaces, if one’s sole focus is how disappointing something is all the time, it’s not a productive or soul-enhancing use of one’s energy, and it makes me sad to see it. Nuance is important; the MCU has more of it than it’s given credit for having, and I hope more people realize that as it continues into Phase 4, or at the very least, that they find something they enjoy and keep coming along for the ride.

#avengers endgame spoilers #endgame spoilers #fat thor #meta #she wants the d(iscourse)

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