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lorillee · 11 months

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alright everybody. its finally time for my ace attorney investigations 2 retrospective/excuse to talk about the von karma-edgeworth family soap opera for a few thousand words. ive never been good at intro paragraphs so we're just gonna get right into it. this is gonna get long probably so be warned - i was originally going to put it under a cut but unfortunately doing that breaks the image format for some reason so uhhhh we're both just gonna have to live with it 😔 obviously this post is going to have major unmarked spoilers so if you havent played this game for some reason yet you should definitely get on that. anyways. without further ado:

investigations 2 is kind of ultimately about who edgeworth was and who edgeworth is and who edgeworth wants to be, explored via the lens of the nature of parent-child relationships and how parents' legacies impact the decisions their children make and the people they become.

at the end of aa1 (+rfta), edgeworth is confronted with the harsh reality that his mentor/adopted father & the man who taught him everything he knows about prosecuting is 1) a terrible person and 2) did actually have a habit of using forged evidence to keep his 40 year streak going. after being accused of corruption for having used fake evidence himself (unknowingly, but still), edgeworth goes on his whole journey of "what does being a prosecutor even mean, anyways" by means of worlds most melodramatic fake suicide. the answer he ends up arriving at is that defense lawyers and prosecutors, when they have relatively upstanding morals and are given the tools to actually do their jobs, serve as vehicles for the truth, and cannot reliably fulfill this duty without each other. however, the question has always kind of lingered - "well, what about being a defense attorney like gregory?"

phoenix routinely brings up the class trial as like the most formative memory of his own childhood - that experience is inherently tied to who phoenix is as a person - but that trial literally only exists because edgeworth was imitating his father in being a defense attorney. the main character of the main series' inspiration for becoming a defense attorney is intrinsically tied to "back when edgeworth was "good", before manfred "corrupted" him". its because edgeworth becomes a corrupt prosecutor that phoenix chases after him into law school - this apparent complete and entire betrayal of phoenix's whole understanding of him as a person.

so then, now that edgeworth is "good" again, why doesnt he quit the whole prosecutor thing and go back to his childhood dream of becoming like his father?

this question is kind of just left up in the air until investigations 2. with the prosecutor investigation committee being completely corrupted, they make it abundantly clear they dont appreciate edgeworth sticking out of line in an attempt to do his literal job, and try to control him by threatening to take away his badge. furthermore, shields, gregory's old companion, shows back up and works with edgeworth to find the the truth of a handful of incidents that would've otherwise been covered up by the p.i.c. - including gregory's last case, in which he proved that manfred, who prosecuted that same case, did indeed forge evidence.

after relinquishing his badge in a protest against what is clearly an injustice, manfred's old habits being dredged back up, and the extended hand of the man in charge of his father's old law firm, edgeworth is getting pulled in a number of different directions - will he capitulate, give up on prosecuting entirely, run away from his past, and become a defender of the people and an attorney like his father? or will he reject manfred's terrible methods while working to rectify his mentor/adopted father's wrongdoings, face his past head-on, and seek the truth as a prosecutor, regardless of his mentor's legacy and reputation?

both of the paths offered to edgeworth hinge on who he used to be - a boy who wanted nothing more than to be like his father, a phenomenal defense attorney who stood up for those who had nobody to stand up for them, and a young adult who saw the injustice in the world and wanted to punish it in the best way he could think of - becoming like his adopted father who never failed to put a (seemingly) guilty person behind bars.

investigations 2 gives us..... a whole slew of parent-child relationships. like what can only be described as truly an impressive amount: gregory & miles & manfred, master & katherine, sebastian & debeste, gustavia & simon, dover & knightley, blaise & sebastian, courtney & john, lang's dad & lang, and more tangentially manfred & franziska and byrne & kay. for our purposes, though, we're going to focus on the most immediately relevant ones to edgeworth's development specifically - sebastian & blaise and gustavia & simon.

for starters, i think it would probably be best to get the von karma-edgeworth family soap opera soapboxing out of the way.

edgeworth's arc in this game primarily revolves around what he wants to do with his life - he talks a whole lot about his "path", but doesnt really know what that means outside of seeking the truth at all costs. the people around him like to slot him into either "defense attorney" or "prosecutor" for a variety of reasons, but more often than not it ends up boiling down to his fathers in at least some capacity.

franziska is personally betrayed and frankly disgusted by edgeworth giving up his badge (which makes plenty of sense, particularly after their conversation at the end of aa2 and which i have talked about here), and a notable portion of that does have to do with her & manfred's relationship to edgeworth. manfred's influence was a huge factor in miles' decision to become a prosecutor, and they both know it. of course, the more pressing issue for her is the fact that miles is abandoning her again - but the point remains that had it not been for manfred, the likelihood of miles becoming a prosecutor would be, frankly, much lower.

shields, on the other hand, spends a whole lot of the game projecting gregory onto miles. he wants edgeworth to follow in his fathers footsteps and play the role of the returning prodigal son, because he misses gregory and sees a lot of his influence and mannerisms in miles. actually, something i kind of found particularly interesting is that at one point, shields remarks that edgeworth's trademark glare was the same as that of gregory's. theres a whole lot of remarks made on that glare, actually, particularly in combination with edgeworths furrowed brow.

but... shields himself is the one who says this

about - would you guess it - a certain manfred von karma. its no secret that miles has picked up a whole number of manfred's mannerisms and attitudes, even as he's unlearning some of the more harmful ones, but what i found particularly fascinating is that shields saw something that miles picked up from manfred and saw gregory in it instead. while part of it certainly could be that miles did pick part of it up from gregory (which is something that has a basis in the sprites - something i may actually get into a little bit later), its also very possible that this is shields projecting what he wants to see onto miles as opposed to what's actually there. its even more interesting though, because when they first meet, shields actually mistakes edgeworth for manfred because of that glare

shields is so caught up in wanting gregory back from the dead that he occasionally blinds himself from acknowledging that miles is an entirely different person.

and, of course, throughout both this game and the previous investigations game, there's more than a few moments in which edgeworth personally accused of using falsified evidence to convict people - specifically harkening back to our good friend manfred von karma, posterchild of world's most corrupt prosecutors and edgeworth's adopted father/mentor. shields even expresses immense distrust of miles at first simply on this fact, acknowledging that miles was indeed like a son to manfred (..... for whatever that's worth)

actually. while we're here on this point i want to speak briefly about sprite similarities

this game does a whole lot of calling attention to the influence manfred & gregory have had on miles - obviously theres the furrowed brow & piercing gaze and terrible people skills that miles got from manfred, but he also has gregory's affinity for tea and dorky camera face. the sprites also do a great job in visually establishing his inherited mannerisms though - while manfred's influence has done a lot, gregory's habits still peek through the cracks.

ive talked about this a little bit on another post, but i feel like it warrants repeating here anyways. the sprite animations in ace attorney are great for a lot of reasons, but one of the most interesting ones is how they're frequently used to imply connections between characters and the influence of certain relationships.

we know that miles definitely did not get his bowing from manfred, but with gregory's sprites in this game it becomes abundantly clear where they originated from (of course, with the over-the-top melodrama of the von karmas added on top). similarly with miles' hand bounding sprite, its a pointed finger (giving it an accusatory tint, definitely coming from manfred), while gregory's is an open hand (much more inviting), but the bounce nonetheless remains. the sprite similarities between miles & manfred are a bit more straightforward, but something i find tremendously interesting is how the mannerisms miles picked up from his father have the von karma influence absorbed into them - it really is a brilliant visual indicator of the impact both his fathers have had on his character.

i've talked about this general topic semi-extensively on this blog simply because i am truly a bit obsessed with the von karma-edgeworth family soap opera, but i feel like it warrants repeating here anyways since it comes up in this came so often. miles' relationship with gregory is... honestly not really explored terribly much? like shields will reference him a lot and both him and the game itself absolutely loves comparing the two, but as far as edgeworth's personal feelings on gregory go... we. honestly don't get much, either directly or indirectly. which makes sense, obviously - edgeworth was like 9 when he died - but its still interesting. we obviously know that gregory loved edgeworth a lot (see: him thinking about miles periodically throughout the investigation . which is. for the record. absolutely adorable)

but miles doesn't get much of anything at all in terms of internal or external dialogue about gregory. his relationship with manfred, however, is... a lot more messy, but also explored a fair bit through implications.

mr von karma gets brought up a lot in both investigations 1 & 2, and miles' reaction is largely the same - he'll comment on objective facts (usually ones that were brought up in the first by the people around him) whether its manfred's skill in prosecuting or his tendency towards forgery, but blatantly refuses to ever give any sort of subjective opinion on him (franziska is, for the record, the exact same way). theyll dance around the topic, sure, but never genuinely engage with it - as much can be seen if you make edgeworth present his badge to amano in investigations 1.

while franziska's feelings on her father are a lot more obscured, miles' are a little more openly messy - after all, he still keeps his prosecutors badge in his pocket all these years after manfred told him prosecutors who wore their badges are tacky. he still wears the jabot, an integral and iconic bit of manfreds attire (and another thing that made shields briefly think he was manfred). he still has no problem connecting with and helping manfred's old friends (amano, for example). and, mostly damning of all, he still keeps his old prosecutors outfit - the outfit manfred gave him based off of his own suit - plastered to his office wall. its clear that he doesnt approve of manfred's methods of prosecution and recognizes that he was definitely corrupt, but even with all the murder and framing and so on and so forth... manfred was still his dad. even if its not logical for miles to still hold on to that filial love, you cant really argue your emotions into changing into something rational.

with the repeated importance being placed on the influence of gregory and manfred on miles' life, their relationship to him, and other people's expectations for miles based on their legacies established, i think we can probably try to get into sebastian now. gonna be copy-pasting most of my sebastian vs miles & franziska mini-essay here because i dont want to retype it.

sebastian is actually a kind of interesting foil for franziska and miles - its pretty clear that franziska didnt become a prosecutor specifically for manfreds approval (see: miles’ comment on her always having been a prosecutor) and likewise with edgeworth (see: his statement on his motivation for becoming a prosecutor having been to chase down criminals after what happened to gregory), but throughout the flashback case in investigations 1 it is so obvious that both of them desperately crave manfred’s approval even to the point of competing over it.

while this competition follows the usual format of franziska insisting on something and miles passively going along with it as opposed to actively engaging, he spends the entire case literally trying to be a mini-manfred (its very sad and also kind of cute), and its made pretty clear that at the very least he would not be the prosecutor he is without manfred’s influence. furthermore, at the end of aa2, franziska also comments on the pressures and expectations being placed on her by virtue of being manfred’s daughter - she felt that she was obligated to become a genius prosecutor simply because of her birth. while the wording indicated to me outside pressure rather than manfred specifically, the point remains that manfred, while not the sole driving reason, did have a significant impact on their career choice.

sebastian, however, specifically says he became a prosecutor for the purpose of getting his dad's approval. blaise routinely speaks ill of sebastian, calling him stupid and an idiot and embarrassing and so on and so forth, but its incredibly clear that sebastian is genuinely desperate for any sort of positive affirmation from his father. he unknowingly cheated his way through law school, graduating at the top of his class purely through blaise's connections, and is genuinely distraught when he finds out that everything he built his adult life on was a lie. the game spends a fair amount of time showing you how wildly terrible sebastian is at being a prosecutor, only to reveal that the reason he's like this is, like, 80% his dad's fault.

unlike sebastian, however, franziska and miles are both quite competent at their jobs and manfred, unlike blaise, actually has confidence in their ability to perform to his expectations (see: him bullying badd into letting them try to solve the case in the investigations 1 flashback case). sebastian & blaise are like a worse and caricatured version of the von karma family soap - basically, they're what would happen if miles & franziska 1) were absolutely dependent on manfreds approval and 2) weren't terribly good at prosecuting, and if manfred was 1) prone to coddling and 2) actively verbally abusive.

theres also the added parallel of “oops! my dad actually really sucks as a person” and the ensuing Complicated Feelings On Dad after this. franziska expresses an egregious amount of disdain for sebastian before we really get into the blaise debacle because she doesnt respect him as a person at all, but is honestly surprisingly sympathetic when it turns out his dad is a criminal. futhermore, she willingly relinquishes her place at the prosecutor's bench for him when its clear he's ready to stand up to blaise, even if hes crying and sobbing the whole way through. its this shared experience and his subsequent growing of a spine that earns her respect.

edgeworth, for his part, also doesnt seem to respect sebastian much at all before the kidnapping incident. however, upon trying to prod him into telling what happened, edgeworth recognizes a part of his old self in sebastian, as well as sebastians willingness to grow up and move past his desperation for his father's approval.

more than just being a funhouse mirror version of the von karmas, blaise and sebastians relationship highlights the dangers of blindly chasing after your parents, critical thinking long forgotten, which has a twofold meaning in regards to miles. obviously, theres the pretty straightforward parallel to his blatant idolization of manfred as a young prosecutor - while the situation wasnt necessarily the same, it still possesses those echoes of a desperate need for acknowledgement/approval, to the point of following their fathers' examples even in the worst ways. @/pkducklett left some really great tags on one of my posts which hits the nail on the head:

but it also begs the question: is blindly chasing after his childhood dream of being like gregory really what miles wants to do with his life? a point we'll loop back around to in a bit, but important to keep in mind for edgeworth's overall arc.

so onto simon & gustavia! simon's relationship with his murderous father gustavia also serves as a foil to miles and one of his dads like sebastian & blaise - however, instead of our notoriously trigger happy friend manfred von karma, it's actually.... gregory! which is, for the record, tremendously fun. simon & miles both became orphans at a young age - which is a notable part of the reason edgeworth agrees to take his case in the jail episode, even. the camaraderie between two people who have shared in the same traumatizing experience and so on and so forth - but instead of being taken from his son like gregory was, gustavia purposely abandons simon once he's deemed him worthless.

post-orphaning, both miles & sebastian are taken under the wing of men of questionable character - miles is adopted by manfred von karma, gregory's rival, murderer, and the anti-thesis of everything he stood for, and sebastian becomes the apprentice to dogen, a ruthless assassin. interestingly enough, though, this parallel diverges in the end - manfred throws miles under the bus and backs up over him like three separate times, metaphorically speaking, while dogen actively puts his life on the line to save sebastian.

miles & simon both experienced the injustice of the law system - miles in the absolute failure of the courts to find his father's true murderer, and simon in his personal experience in its utter corruption. their reactions to this injustice leads them both to commit further injustices - miles in uncritically adopting manfred's ideals and teachings, and in this process definitely sending innocent people to jail at some point or another, and simon in his attempt at semi-vigilante justice via manipulating all the people who ruined his life into either ending or ruining each others', regardless of anybody innocent who got caught in the crossfire.

of course, the narrative purpose of making simon a foil to miles is the final confrontation on three main points - 1) what does miles fight for? why is he a prosecutor? 2) how do you deal with the absolutely rotten law system in japanifornia? 3) are we simply doomed to become our parents, or can we become more than just their continued legacies? which naturally leads us to the final question posed in the thesis - the heart of the game - who does miles want to be?

shields spends a lot of time trying to convince miles to pick up gregory's mantle and join him back at the law offices, but the problem is that miles simply isn't the starry-eyed child who would do anything to be like his father anymore (growing up under the roof of one of the greatest prosecutors of one's time will do that to you). he's no longer the sebastian to blaise for either of his fathers - he cannot simply throw everything he's learned and experienced away in an attempt to imitate gregory, but also has soundly rejected many of manfred's most staunchly held ideals. while not all of them remain, a major part of the reasons he became a prosecutor still hold - even as he's abandoned his badge.

simon was what edgeworth could have become under slightly different circumstances, and he says as much himself. he recognizes that the law isn't perfect and more often than not is wildly abused by everybody in power to subject everybody else to their whims - and that, no matter how hard a defense attorney tries.... if the courts are inherently stacked against them, a corrupt prosecutor will inevitably win. at the end of aa2, edgeworth returns from his wildly melodramatic sabbatical with the answer that the prosecution and the defense need to work hand in hand to reveal the truth - which is, obviously, a correct statement - but there's more to it than that.

there's more than just the defendant at stake in trial - the protection of the victims (whether recognized as the victim by the law or not) are why the laws exist in the first place - this is the reason that edgeworth arrives at for his reason for being a prosecutor. its simon who reminds him of why he started down this path in the first place - the visceral pain edgeworth felt at his father's death and the desire for justice to be done for gregory and himself mirroring simon's feelings after being abandoned by his father and his flight after being the witness to a crime wildly corrupt people in power committed. to be what phoenix was for him in turnabout goodbyes - to be a beacon of hope and justice for the wronged - that is miles' duty.

edgeworth speaks a lot about following "his path" to truth, wherever that might lead, but at the beginning of the game doesnt seem to have a clear idea of what he actually wants to do. he stalls out on shields' many wink wink nudge nudge offers to join the defense attorney firm and be like his dad and continues acting like a prosecutor (indicting people, investigating, the likes) even while being stripped of his authority as one (by his own choice!).

ultimately it all boils back down to these three questions miles asks sebastian in the logic chess game post kidnapping - "what are you going to do now? will you walk the same path as your father? will you continue to be a prosecutor?"

much, much earlier in the game, shields says to edgeworth, "to fight crime as a prosecutor, or to save people as a defense attorney. i want you to think carefully about how you want to live your life from now on." - which, taken with the context of the game as an essay on parents and inheritance and manfred & gregory's influence on miles, is... pretty much the game in a nutshell, actually.

miles spends the entire time playing both defense attorney and prosecutor, indicting certain people and defending others throughout. this is arguably most notable in the flashback/flashforward case where all the members of the original is-7 investigation are there, except for manfred and gregory, who are both being stood in for by - would you guess it - our very own miles edgeworth. he is their legacy, their successor, and their inheritor. in the end, he takes the skills they taught him and the values they imbued him with and the lessons he learned from them to forge his own path - it really is just his final answer to shields' question in the finale of the game: "i want to save people as a prosecutor."

#ace attorney #aai2 #miles edgeworth #gregory edgeworth #manfred von karma #lorillee.txt #the von karma-edgeworth family soap opera #lorillee liveblogs aa investigations 2: electric boogaloo #ok if i left something out that i wanted to talk about SORRYYYY ive spent too much time looking at this thing and i want it out my drafts #i know this post will probably not get many notes simply because its a bit long but its MY soapbox and ill stand on it if i want to #anyways this game slays its like basically 50% of the ultimate von karma-edgeworth family soap opera thesis #also do not expect me to write anything like this for aa4 5 or 6 im just particularly deranged about this topic and these characters #i think honestly 80% of the reason i wrote all this out is because i know absolutely nobody else is going to do it for me #and i need. to share my vision. with the world. even if its rejected by like 60%-80% of the wider fandom #anyways the one thing this has taught me is that actually i would never be cut out for being a lit major #even for things i want to talk about i spend a million years procrastinating on it. because lord knows i am allergic to writing #also if you have something you want me to elaborate on ask me and i'll see what i can do 😎👍#and be sure to follow me for more insane von karma-edgeworth family soap opera takes

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squarebracketsmileyface · 10 days

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if we're talking about fob songs and sorry it's locked, may I suggest "American beauty/American Psycho"

specifically the lines

"I think I fell in love again, maybe I just took too much cough medicine"

"us we were pity sex, nothing more and nothing less"

and "all those dirty thoughts of me, they were never yours to keep"

ooooooooooooo so trueeee, it works for so much of S,IL honestly, like there are some lines that work for Jay and Tim, some for Jay and Alex in uni, some for Jay and Alex during MH, like. Perfect

little lyric analysis thingy under the thingy bobber

"I think I fell in love again, Maybe I just took too much cough medicine" Like, this one feels like Jay and Tim, specifically how I first planned to write them getting together which was gonna take a lot longer, because Jay was basically gonna go the Alex route and refuse to believe he liked Tim (tho not because he didn't wanna be gay, just because he still felt really fucking hurt by everything that happened with Alex) like, he was gonna make all sorts of ridiculous excuses for ages about why he couldn't possibly like Tim in that way. And I did kinda keep that in a little bit in chapter 3 of S,IL i think, just not to the same extent as i had it in the original plan.

The idea of Jay blaming medicine for his feelings towards Tim could be so interesting though, especially with the whole thing about Tim sharing his meds with Jay after they ran into the Operator in entry 72 and Jay had his seizure. Like, idk it feels like the kinda straws Jay would grasp at (especially since he seems to resistant to getting professional help for anything) as another excuse he'd use to avoid going to the doctors to get medication of his own.

"I'm the best worst thing that hasn't happened to you yet, The best worst thing" This line is definitely Jay and Alex in uni, it just is. They are both the best worst things that have happened to each other. Nearly all their problems stem from each other and their relationships over the years, whether that's platonic or sexual or whatever. And like, yeah Alex would probably have ended up getting tangled up with the Operator no matter what, but I do feel like everything would have been different (in S,IL as well as the canon) if he and Jay hadn't been as close as they were/known each other. because without Jay rediscovering the tapes Alex gave him, the MH youtube channel wouldn't have happened and Jay would most likely have just gone on with his life none the wiser, same with Tim. Brian would probably have been the only one still in at least a similar situation.

Also "best worst thing" is a weirdly nice descriptor, it scratches my brain a lot. And "best worst thing that hasn't happened to you yet" is perfect for main series Jaylex because like, the best worst thing that will ever happen to Jay? Dying in Alex's arms (cos that's what i wanna happen in S,IL. I want Jay to die in Alex's arms with Alex crying and telling him he loves him)

"You take the full, full truth, then you pour some out" is just chapter 3 of If It Ain't Broken lol. Like, literally this is what happens in that Chapter (which i should be uploading tomorrow? Maybe tonight but most likely tomorrow). Jay talks to his friends and only really tells them half of the truth and keeps the rest for himself so that he doesn't look like a bad person. its great. he's such a little bastard man and I love him. "And as we're drifting off to sleep, All those dirty thoughts of me, They were never yours to keep" Just like Alex in general wasn't Jay's to keep, especially not after what I have planned for chapter 6 :DDDD but like, to me this feels like it just kinda ties in with all of the stuff Jay and Alex avoided. Like, they never fucked in a bed, Jay never slept over after they hooked up, Alex never used sweet pet names with Jay unless it's during aftercare where he can pass it off as 'just being a good dom' and not have to own his words etc. Like, idk why that lyric just feels like the same kinda thing as all those.

"Us, we were pity sex, nothing more and nothing less" is Alex downplaying everything that happened in chapter 1 of S,IL. Like, you now in chapter 2 where he tells Jay he only called him baby and stuff like that because he was pretending he was Amy? That. It's Alex pretending that them sleeping together again, in a bed this time, and Jay staying there overnight didn't mean anything when really they did. They meant a whole lot to him, but then he realised it had been a bad idea because it'd make Jay get attached to him again and make Jay even more dead set on finding out what's going on, so he had to scramble for something to drive Jay away all over again.

#song asks #honestly fall out boy probably has a whole bunch of songs that'd work for sorry its locked #like. that kinda weird slightly messed up relationship is something their songs/lyrics talk about quite a lot i think #All knowledge of FOB songs has just left my head the second i try to think of other songs i could use to prove this point uhhhhhhhhhhhh #just trust me on this one i think i'm right lmao #marble hornets #marble hornets fanfic #jay merrick #alex kralie #tim wright #jaylex #mh jam #mh sorry its locked #i am realising my tagging is very inconsistent. sometimes i tag individial names. sometimes ships. sometimes both. sometimes neither #Me to myself: Make up your mind Mon!!!#Also me to myself: Never! I will forever be inconsistent!!!!!

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