#like i would have people react to it or have some Outside Dynamic between one of the couple members and someone else

[lemonduckisnowawake]

*gasps as I crawl up to this blog, covered in blood and sweat and gore* After 300 pages of story scenes, 700 pages of short stories, multiple documents of additional short story dumps, 7 folders, and some other things, I have successfully found at *least* FIVE romance scenes that aren't written with hatred and pain, aren't written out of spite, aren't made to be ridiculous and/or funny, aren't heavily made to be an allegory, aren't noncanon cause meh, AND aren't made to be a tragedy. At least 5 (it's sadly less than five but I'm done looking at what I didn't) small written things in over 6 years of Serious Writing that feature a romance that is soft, taken seriously, canon, AND not made to be purposefully ridiculous cause I Could Not.

All that to prove to a friend I could do romance softly and seriously after they shared something really very sweet and well written. ALL THAT JUST TO SHOW THAT I KIND OF ALREADY SHARED SOMETHING LIKE THAT A FEW WEEKS BACK

[sugusatosluut]

Megumi Fushiguro and Ino Takuma x female!reader

MDNI✨

Heads up: characters are aged up in this one {18+} Smut, poly, reader has different dynamics with both men, sub!reader, sorta dom megumi, sorta dom Ino. Enjoy!

Megumi and Ino enjoyed your presence. Your calm demeanor and sweet smile reminded them of Utahime in some weird way even though you were her student. It made sense. Your constant efforts to protect them never went unnoticed. They watched you get praised by Nanami and Gojo constantly and to be honest, both of them felt a little jealous. Not because of the praise, but because of how you reacted to it. Gojo’s version of praising you was different than Nanami’s. Gojo would always lean slightly down to your level and get right in your face to tell you things that only the two of you could hear, making you nervous as he smiled at you, his minty breath hitting your face. That always made Megumi itch. He’d always thank you for protecting his students. Nanami on the other hand exchanged his praise in cordial dinners and expressing his gratitude towards you by making small talk and flashing a soft smile, ending in him paying the bill *literally every time*. Both men knew you weren’t materialistic, but wanted to give you something to always remind you of their gratitude, and that was the only way they knew how. You were always thankful.

You’ve known Megumi and Ino for a while.. your relationship with them was extremely private, the only rules were no pda outside of the privacy of your own homes. Megumi and Ino also agreed not to talk about it to anyone else either. The sorcerer world is hard enough being judged by higher ups and classmates alike.

Your relationship with both men were of different worlds. Outside of home, Megumi was very quiet and independent. He sometimes can be found by Itadori or by himself. Rarely he’d be next to you or gojo. It’s just a thing he has. The people closest to him, he’s rarely around. Megumi in private was very passionate and vocal about making you feel good, you’re his princess. His need for you to be on top riding him and to make love to you was very clear. Don’t get me started on after sex cuddles.. you need to be laying on him or under him. No in between. Ino on the other hand, in public he’s always got his eye on you, observing you like Nanami does. He’s always by your side and happy to stay there. He’s very puppy-like. In private, ino was very attentive to your moans. He hates when people outside the relationship touch you. Once Yuuji had given you a hug that lasted a little too long for Ino’s liking, he punished you in private for it, edging you the whole night while he came several times. Megumi and ino took all your social and emotional queues more serious after they further figured out how certain things made you feel.

This one night in particular really had both of them heated.

After a long mission lasted a couple weeks of tracking down and exorcising a special grade curse, you guys checked in with your mentors and shoko. The boys weren’t hurt too badly and you refused to let anyone touch you the whole ride back to Tokyo. It was a traumatic experience, but instead of confiding in your boys, you had become excessively and exceptionally difficult to them. Gojo sat next to you, dropping his blindfold. “You okay?” He asked.

You stared at your feet.

“It’s okay to not be okay sweetheart. Why don’t you let Ino and Megumi take you home huh? Maybe you just need a couple days off to rest. My office is open anytime.” Gojo said playing with some of your long hair.

“I usually don’t agree with Satoru, but Ino and Fushiguro are the most responsible for this task. You clearly need some proper care and your friends are the best people to give that to you. Please, if you understand, just nod love. I know it’s hard to speak and right now it’s hard to understand, but having a scar is better than the latter of your options right now.” Nanami caressed your hands, kneeling in front of you.

You nodded, internally biting your lip.

“Megumi, you guys can head home. Text me when you’re safe.”

Megumi nodded.

At home the boys hopped into the shower with you, washing the stained blood off of your skin carefully.

“Not so hard Fushiguro. She still needs her skin.” Ino hissed at him.

“What do you think I’m doing Ino?” Megumi asked rolling his eyes as he washed your skin.

“Being an idiot.” Ino smirked

Megumi stopped all his motion in a sarcastic manner. It made a small smile and a short giggle come from your soft lips. They both froze in place, looking at eachother with wide eyes.

“D’you hear that?” Ino smirked.

“Little angel’s got her laugh back. There’s that pretty smile.” Megumi sighed in relief.

You leaned into their touch, relieved that you were home safe with them. As they showered off with you, everything that happened felt like a blur.

“Angel, you did such a great job today. Let us spoil you.” Ino suggested.

You nodded your head in agreement, but Megumi decided he wanted to start off. He roughly kissed you and felt you up. It was thrilling. He traveled down to your waist, but since you were all naked anyways, he decided to get right to work. He sucked on your clit roughly, small moans escaping your lips as he made out with your lower ones. “Be more careful out there with us.” He said pausing for a moment. You whined.

“I’m not giving you anymore until you say yes.” Megumi stated at you.

“Fushiguro- come on that’s just cruel!” Ino cried out as you removed his dick from your mouth.

“Yes-mmph” you moaned.

“Yes what?” He said kissing around your puffy clit.

You couldn’t take it anymore, you were about to cave.

“C’mon princess just let him have it. You know he wants it bad.” Ino smirked, grabbing your face.

“Yes daddy.” You sobbed as Megumi finally let you get close on his tongue. The noises were too much for you, too overstimulating as the two men stopped their pace so you could sink down onto Ino first.

“Nice work Fushiguro, you got her all nice and wet for us. There’s no way our precious Angel can’t take us both at the same time.” Ino smiled while caressing your face.

“Calm down Ino, you’re too riled up, you’re gonna end up hurting her.”

“Oh you’re one to talk skin scraper.”

“C’mon, knock it off.”

“You know she likes it a little rough. Why don’t we just give her what she wants?” Ino said.

“Are you stupid? We need to take our time. She’s hurt.” Megumi argued

“Megs- I can take it. I want it. If it hurts too bad I’ll use the safe word.” You pouted at him.

He sighed and both of the men positioned your hole over their throbbing cocks. Megumi was the one that had your legs in the air, so he let Ino slide into you first.

“Fuck- so wet for us baby.” Ino whined.

Ino helped position you up so you could take megumi’s swollen cock as well. The two men bounced you up and down on their hard lengths, making you a moaning whimpering mess.

“God- don’t squeeze me like that.” Megumi grunted between his teeth.

“You trying to make us cum early baby?” Ino smirked at you.

“N-no! Please just keep fucking me!” You screamed out.

They obliged, bouncing you up and down on their lengths, making you their own personal flashlight in that moment. You felt them throb inside you simultaneously.

“M’so close princess.” Megumi panted, biting your neck in places you didn’t even know could feel so good.

Ino’s lips and tongue traveled all over your breasts, latching onto your right nipple. He was careful, only nipping you once or twice. He couldn’t help it.

“God you’re so tight. Isn’t she Fushiguro? She’s perfect.” Ino praised you.

Megumi grabbed your hair, balling it up in his fist as he pulled your head back to him.

“You’re so tight, I think we might cum inside- is that oky with you princess? Do you wanna be filled up with our love?” Megumi groaned in your ear.

“Gah- yes please I want it all.” You screamed out.

The two men continued their pounding on your swollen pussy, you squirted and they came right after, panting hard. You were all filled up, they were all out of breath.

They pulled out and sandwiched you in between them again as they started your aftercare routine. It wasn’t often that you three were able to have moments like this. Even though you were hurt, you still wanted every bit of this with the two of them forever. They kissed your forehead, giving you sweet words and love even though you were falling asleep fast.

“We love you, princess.”

[zeevoidlight]

what's the deal with these two...

Seriously. Why is the suspicion and joking of their bromance even a thing that exists (outside of just shipping for shipping's sake and ppl making every male friendship a secretly frustrated gay relationship). Is it even a thing?

Do I ship Goku and Vegeta?... yes.. yes I do, I confess myself as part of the problem. But I feel is fair that in a show like Dragon Ball where there's sexually mature references and themes at times I can give myself the freedom to wonder. So i'mmana talk about two pivotal moments that marked a before and after for both of them together as a team: their Majin saga match and the fusion.

//////

As far as the show goes, there's not really much to go off of. They clearly both have their wives whom they both love very much, children, they love to battle and test themselves, they are bros (now at least), rivals for life, they better each other by challenging one another to get better.

On the other hand my autism tells me that that's not the whole story. Because I normally don't like to take things at face value when i can see more.

Is interesting to see how both, Goku's compassion and respect for Vegeta, and Vegeta's (albeit unhealthy) obsession over Goku, the fact that they were also the last of their kind and the only ones that could compete with each other to fight between themselves and against others (discounting Gohan since he always slacked on his training and wasn't really interested on fighting), the only ones that could understand how the other felt as being pure blooded, that Goku had a living example in Vegeta of his true origins to learn more about himself (like a walking Saiyan enciclopedia), that Vegeta had in Goku a new purpose in life (until he realized what he had with his family as well), all of that with time combined to create a dynamic where they both felt comfortable with each other. They famously became companions, with time forming friendship/friendly rivalry and some could even see them now being akin to brothers. Something that as much as Krilin was Goku's life long friend and will be forever he could never really fulfill all that Vegeta came to develop with Goku. And in a way I don't think anyone can either.

But there's also an important note to make about this relationship/friendship. Vegeta is the one that gives it more meaning than Goku does (at first). I feel like Goku is simply being his loving caring happy free self, while Vegeta takes it personal and takes so much weight on what Goku says and does and how it affects him. As he later puts in words in Super (Granola arc i think), Goku is an egotist while he himself is an egocentric. And that difference is important to get to the point because from now on for a while the question is "Why does Vegeta".

Why does Vegeta put so much weight in their fight in the Majin Saga that he's willing to kill innocent people again just to have a match with Goku (going with the latin dub again since is more accurate to the original japanese one). And it isn't just about his ego, is about what he doesn't say as well.

Why is Vegeta the only character that is so against fusion, with Goku specifically because he has only fused with him and we don't know how would he react to fusing with someone else if it's needed.

Why is Vegeta so averse to touching Goku. At least after their fight and after him dying in the Majin Saga and once he is allowed to go back to Earth.

Why on the brink of the universe destruction was Vegeta acting like a cheated on girlfriend when he discovered that Goku had a new transformation and didn't told him about it (I would be mad at him too to be fair but i also understand why Goku wouldn't want to do so and he did it to not hurt Vegeta's feelings and have a good time under fair conditions. he gets half a point for the sentiment).

The Majin Saga

From all the examples people like to pull up when trying to argument sexual tension between these two there's only a few that I feel have some significance. And I can tell you when did it cooked enough to be a possibility. And that is right when Goku announced he was going to go back to Earth for one day and one day only, presumably forever. That's where something started, but it was brewing since Goku died to Cell and Vegeta lost Goku, his purpose, his obsession, his will to fight, and entered a depressive episode that lasted 2 years (aprox, since Bulma tells Chichi that Vegeta had been training for the last 5 years in the 7 year time skip).

Once he knew Goku was coming back he just had to do anything in his power to fight against him again, no matter what it took (he looks so excited too, that's cute). His entire meaning as the person he perceived he was and his meaning as a warrior and Goku's foil depended on it. But after realizing that they might not have their match because of Supreme Kio's pink menace, nothing else mattered, not Bulma, not Trunks, not the Earth or the universe or everything he had been building for so many years without Goku. Goku was the single catalyst for his relapse. Like... how is it possible that fighting with him and proving his worth is more important that it's been a rock in his boots for years now. But ok, he's a warrior so I can understand why, also because he was going through a Major (with capital M) identity crisis where he's trying to negate his newfound value in his family and new home while thinking that is what was making him weak, though he never really believed that since he knew Goku never needed to be cruel to surpass him, it was just a jolt reaction to not knowing how to handle it, and Goku could see through that very clearly by asking him if he really believed that bs about feeling good by being cruel and being a slave of his own mind.

But the thing is that during their fight it is clear that more than winning (which he would have enjoy to no end if they finished their fight and Goku didn't had a new plot convenient powerup hiding under his eyebrows again, though that wouldn't have helped him to grow), both were very much enjoying the act of fighting (since Goku said he wanted to end the fight soon so Buu doesn't get the energy but he didn't because he could have used Ssj3 and end it quite fast), Vegeta fighting against his previous rival now companion Kakarot. Sparing with him in perfect synchrony in an equal fight because what Vegeta actually wanted with the Majin Magic was to close the powergap and convince himself he had an excuse to not feel remorse because of the magic. And i say that because before Goku dying to Cell he really saw him as competition, but after he lost him i feel that alongside his remorse and embarrassment for the disaster that was that saga, in part because of his gigantic ego, he must have felt alone, now truly being the last pure blooded Saiyan alive and not in condition to call himself a warrior anymore under his own standards. And although he had Gohan, which he respected a lot because of his courage and his immense power, it was not the same since Gohan is a pacifist and didn't had the same passion for fighting like a pure blooded Saiyan so he wasn't even training. So by the time of the Majin Saga and once Goku came into the picture again I think he subconsciously regarded him differently and he ends up realizing it during their fight (although he doesn't vocalize it).

During their fight there's a specific moment. After Goku throws Vegeta to a cliff side and he makes a hole in it to liberate himself, Goku comes to him and they both get very close just floating in the air and powering up, looking at each other. Vegeta is beyond pissed, Goku taking the fight very seriously. Then Goku smiles to Vegeta challenging him and showing he's enjoying their fight, and Vegeta relaxes for a moment changing his attitude and showing a smile back to him in empathy, sharing to him that he is enjoying it too and wants to challenge him back as well.

This whole fight is Goku's way to show Vegeta how much he actually cares about him and his well being despite what Vegeta might have believed up until then, how much he respects him as a warrior and an equal too, even risking Earth and Majin Buu's return. He did the unthinkable and menaced Kaio Shin with death if he dared to stop their fight, which Vegeta sure noticed and even reacted with complete disbelief.

I know a lot of people joke about Vegeta being a repressed homosexual because of his obsession with Goku, and i'm not saying he is, but this fight is charged with sexual tension, mostly on his part, among other things of course. And is interesting that Vegeta, ever since the Namek experience, is the most emotionally fragile of the bunch and an unstable character. He feels everything very intensely and reacts in the same way while trying to hide under a curtain of pride, ego and his title of Prince.

Goku knew what he was getting into by agreeing to fight with Vegeta. He wasn't going to just let them set the score, he was going to give Vegeta the most intense therapy session ever by letting him discharge all that literal energy and anger, guiding him through his feelings, playing by Vegeta's rules. Help him overcome whatever he had been brewing in his mind since they day they met thinking on where was the moment everything went wrong for years, so he could move forward...

And then... this happens...

... I don't think anyone expected something like this to even be a thing that he could do as a power that we will only see one time ever in the entirety of the show and is in here, lol. And not long ago I watched a semi abridged semi analysis commentary video on the fight and yeah, we coincide that there was something else going on here at the same time. Vegeta got a little too excited... The same way a football player suddenly gets rock hard without realizing because they got too much adrenaline from a very exciting match. And I didn't mentioned it but being that Saiyans were a warrior culture there exists some real life relation of warrior societies (like greeks, romans, spartans, norse, some aztec societies) and homoerotic practices as part of that philosophy. Fighting is everything and everything revolves around fighting. And finding a brother in arms could develop into something else out of admiration, or from hypermasculinity with the purpose of dominating the other and demonstrating power. And i'm not saying that that was part of Saiyan culture, just that there might be some similarities with what we're seeing.

There's a fine line between pain and pleasure, hate and love, fear and excitement, rivalry and attraction. And in moments of intensity where both opposite feelings collide can produce an equally intense and confusing response. And here Vegeta is going through a rollercoaster of emotions and given that he is the most emotionally charged character it can go all places.

So, Vegeta tells Goku if he pretends to defeat him quickly as he said, Goku responds that he's trying to do that, and Vegeta asks if he thinks he can do it *slap slap* (the disrespect). He's trying to provoke him but the way he does it is kinda similar to what you'd do in a sexual encounter since he's not really hurting him too badly (which is really funny). And I'm pretty sure he wasn't thinking about anything sexual, just pure anger towards our buddy Kakarot so that doesn't change the fact that he did just lost his marbles to blind rage and wasn't thinking at all, just feeling intensely and acting freely on it. "Listen... don't you think this is enough humiliation I got from your part *hit hit punch hit*. This attacks are not enough to set the score. How is it possible that a Prince of Saiyans, that possesses such a big pride, was humiliated by a warrior like you (In the English version there's a series of flashbacks with dialogue but that's not a thing in the japanese and latin version). What saddens me the most is that you saved my life, worm (i don't remember if he's referring to Cell because Gohan saved him there, or way back in the saiyan saga when they first met since for a warrior is way worse offense to get their death in battle denied since he now has to suffer all what he's been through). You deserve to die! I'll break you to pieces right now! I'll start with the arm...".

Unfortunately for Goku Vegeta didn't share the safe word and he had to free himself so he wasn't actually dismembered by the intensity of Prince Vegeta and they continued their fight, once again Goku leveling the field into a in a less emotionally charged more equal fight all things considered. They talk again and Vegeta admits to him that he understands that he's never going to surpass him because Goku is more skilled at fighting, now getting into the real meat of the matter with him and his frustrations. We get to Vegeta almost breaking in tears again, torn by the realization of his situation confessing all about how he wants to be who he was and how he cannot cope with his new life on Earth having all this new feelings for his family and being passive that make him feel like he is not himself. Which tells a lot about how he still doesn't know how to function outside of conflict and his deeply rooted self image since childhood, and to me it says that it almost feels to him like he's afraid of disappearing as an individual if he cannot go back to being something he recognizes and is familiar with as he doesn't recognize himself being something else, a who that is completely opposite to what he has ever known. Is something some people that had lived through a deeply traumatic upbringing experience. On top of it being a Saiyan it must have been really confusing and difficult but Goku is the only one that could probably understand that in some capacity as pure blooded Saiyan.

And i love how Goku doesn't give up on him though after everything and he is still willing to listen and help. Without his help here Vegeta wouldn't have confronted and put into words his reality to later internalize it and fully embrace his love for his family, fully embrace his feelings, giving Trunks later his first hug. That was all Goku's doing.

Of course things happened since they were still in the middle of total annihilation at the hands of the strongest pink ball of bubblegum. and from this fight and his explosive sacrifice/ acceptance of his destiny and for who he was, going forward Vegeta actually starts acting a little different. A lot more relaxed with Kakarot, more open and sincere, more focused on helping than competing, more agreeable and no longer ignoring or being embarrassed of his feelings for his loved ones (like we see when he gets convinced by Goku to do the fusion using Vegeta's love for Bulma). And I'm pretty sure he felt grateful and in life debt to him. Not only for his help with unjumbling his feelings during that fight but for everything he's done for him since the day Goku spared his life way back in the day. A real true honest best friend/rival for life. (Though he still was being a bit stubborn about wanting to fight Buu himself in the anime, but in the manga he just doesn't charge head first into trying to battle him, he just doesn't like the idea of fussing with Kakarot).

Then the fusion thing...

The thing about the fusion is that Vegeta usually never wants to do it because he's embarrassed by the dance (which yeah... that's absolutely fair) but this is not the metamoran one, is the Potara, and they don't need to dance. His usual complains then change to "I just don't like to be fused with him" or "I don't like the idea of uniting bodies with him" when they have to do it later (either in canon or movie). And I don't know how doing a fusion with someone would feel like but the Potara at least has two ways it can go. For the Kaios just one person becomes the main, getting some physical characteristics and power of the other, and the other becomes dormant, just one person gets to be conscious. But for mortals, both actually remain conscious and they both "live" inside the body of each other as one new combined persona who is a combined identity, mixing mentally and physically, sharing memories, thoughts, feelings, everything in unison either the other wants it or not because when they are fused they are cooperating in a single brain so they think the same under this persona even if later they have separate thoughts on the same thing when they de-fuse, even better actually if they are rivals because they get the rival boost. Is not too crazy to think that some would consider it a very intimate act, even more because is permanent (until the retcon), which Goku is so considerate to tell Vegeta at the very last minute and he's like "WTF!" and Goku is just down with it while Vegeta is regretting ever meeting this guy but does it anyways.

And we have seen other characters combine but they don't think much about it, Trunks and Goten specifically just find it fun because they are best friends and just think about having the time of their lives beating up the bad guys. But I think Vegeta specifically does feel like it's something too personal and intimate that requires a lot his will power to do. His concept of it is different for a lot of reasons that all derive from being a very reserved person in general in many aspects. But ultimately and reluctantly agrees for the sake of his loved ones and saving his new home.

Goku certainly didn't thought much about it, just another way to become even stronger by cooperating with someone in a new way. Better if it's Vegeta because the power boost is much greater to save the Earth and he considers him a real friend at this point. He's so excited when Vegeta accepts because it means so much, it's the demonstration to Goku of his turn to an actual good guy, fighting for others and not just himself, and he's so proud. And the result is this very playful, sassy confident and cocky warrior that we all know and love because is the best thing ever and I don't have Vegetto favoritism.

But something did changed in both of them after the fusion. I know is an anime only thing for better pacing (at least until Super came and made it a thing again in small ways of its own), but after the fusion thing Goku started to unnecessarily get into Vegeta's personal space more (I mean, I don't think there's anything more intimate than fussing and you'd have to get a level of trust and understanding with that other person like with no one else ever afterwards regardless). Like, I like that when they do the cheek to cheek attack, which again was completely unnecessary, Vegeta feels dirty about it, even muttering to himself "He's an opportunist (as in like, Goku taking advantage of him), I would have preferred the fusion" and Goku asks him is he's finished blasting Buu bits and Vegeta recoils and yells "Don't get close to me!". (In the manga there's not really that much fuss about it when they separate, they just get to work and directly from separating to Buu's brain). The fusion represents the pinnacle of their growth together as partners. Probably even more than that at this point for how much they share as rivals and how much they understand about each other above any other person, including their own wives in some regards for all they have gone through on things only they can share between themselves like their love for battle.

And if they both were friendly before while still keeping their cards up, now is when they start to act more like brothers and cooperating. Goku with his power and techniques and Vegeta with his strategic planing at the end of the Buu saga. Goku even becomes more playful with Vegeta, even sharing funny moments together. And as pointed out, I believe the fusion made them know the thinking, memories and intentions of the other to a degree.

This is the turning point for Goku as well regarding accepting his heritage as Saiyan. Because from then on he also accepts the values of the Saiyans as warriors and accepts feeling pleasure in having a good fair honorable fight without aid and relying only in his strength and talent just for the thrill he gets of it (much like what he felt as a child/teen), which he demonstrates by breaking the second pair of Potara earrings while Vegeta responds by telling him that he's so proud of him for going into the fight the Saiyan way. Also from then on others start to recognize Goku fully as a Saiyan.

Now, about Vegeta with the fusion, if he wasn't too sure about the fusion first, now every time the fusion is required he almost feels violated by the suggestion (which right before the kid Buu fight he actually didn't mind fusing again and kinda wanted it in the anime while this wasn't in the manga but ok). And of course, if he didn't had much thoughts on getting close and personal with Goku when battling because it meant nothing (like the arm riding in the Saiyan saga and their bondage session prior), now he recoils from him in certain situations (it also didn't help that the first time they fuse they went dick first...).

And onto Super, they made this thing about Goku asking Vegeta to grab his hand in order to instant transmission but Goku knows very well that's not necessary, he could have said to Vegeta to grab his shoulder like others do but he wants him to grab his hand, and Vegeta gets all flustered and nervous every time as if people are going to make fun of him for being gay or something (since we are told by the Pilaf gang that holding hands is very romantic and a sign of being a couple, and something to be embarrassed about, although from a childish perspective of course but this information was set up for the audience when Trunks wanted to hold hands with Mai). Like... Goku, do you have something to share to the class as well?

They later spent 3 years in the hyperbolic chamber at Goku's request... 3 years together just sparing in a void where there's nothing but infinity and them (which again, it wasn't really necessary because as Vegeta points out that wasn't going to make much of a difference in terms of power because they are at their limit of what their bodies can achieve by just fighting). And Bulma even got jealous/angry about Vegeta accepting the invitation.

It's become such a well known thing that there's something going on that even in official material (not canon exactly but official) acknowledges it. Maybe Goku knows something we don't since the fusion happened but it goes a little beyond just a joke from his part XD. And i haven't talked about it but Goku has no shame or filter. He does seem to display asexual tendencies but he's either oblivious to sexual stuff at times and how it affects others, or does it on purpose because he feels not much about it but does know how it affects others.

In GT there's actually not too much, they just remain companions and friends for life... Vegeta again reminiscing of everything they've gone through and accepting his role in the powerscale and being very freaking cute with Bulma, being such a dad and all. The highlight is the fusion again though, where Vegeta is the one that says he wants to do the fusion to which Goku just laughs saying that he feels happy because is the first time Vegeta asks him to do it, and Vegeta is just averts his eyes and says he hates him, lol.

Of course, the bromance tones might be just fanservice (I didn't knew that in shonen is actually very common). But either if there's something or not I don't really care much about that. Because as characters I have seen them grown so much and they have learn so much about themselves and each other it might as well be just another aspect they allow themselves to explore if they're down with it, with whatever canon or the anime presents us to see and guess, just like they have with their own families, wives, form friendships, discover new feelings, ways of thinking, how they have become stronger and how they have change the people around them, meta speaking as well. Either they are just friends, honorary brothers or something more I'm happy with who they have become thanks to each other. And the trust they have for each other is what is beautiful to see reflected. I'm so proud of them and what they have achieved. Now they are inseparable as the best duo in history.

And I'm my conclusions I would say that Vegeta might feel something towards Goku for how much he has helped him and how he has come to admire and respect him in levels unimaginable... in a spartan kinda way if you like and if he ever was down with it. And Goku is just Goku. He loves in a storge kind of way because that's what he does. He knows Vegeta to a T, knows what he needs, and wants him to be happy as well and become the better version of himself, to feel comfortable and feel loved too because he admires him as well, and if he can help him he will do so. Is not really a physical sexual attraction (which doesn't mean it cannot derive on one) but there is attraction and love in a different way.

[insomniac-101]

Rose Tyler Character Analysis

Ah so Rose Tyler.

Rose " you like my gun?" Tyler who arguably, is one of the most important characters of the RTD era. A character so influential, that the narrative takes the time to mourn her absence and was single handedly responsible for bringing the series back from the dead.

She's so controversial. You either really love her or hate her, and I think that in itself is a testament to how well she is written. Because she left an impact, and that's not an easy thing to do in a series that has been around for so long

With that in mind though, I find that she is also the character that most people tend to misinterpret a lot. Often framing her in a bad light, rather than with the nuance required to understand her.

That being said I'm about to analyze the shit out of her character as well as some of her main relationships so if you love her, great I do too! Let's be friends! And if you don't, that's a shame but hopefully the way I interpret her journey will help you better understand why others do:)

I must stress that this is my interpretation but feel free to let me know if you saw a scene differently than me! Love reading alternate interpretations, me

Rose Marion Tyler is introduced to us in the first season of Nuwho as an ordinary girl. She has a job, a boyfriend, and a mother but from the way we are introduced to these facets of her life, we get the impression that she isn't necessarily someone that seeks to have anything more. She fits right in with said life and from an outside perspective, one can even argue that she seems content with it.

However it's in the moment where we see her come face to face with the impossible, that we really see who she is as a person.

When confronted with a group of living mannequins that slowly creep towards her , alone I must add, her reaction is one that is quite strange. Here she is, looking to fulfill a task in a completely dodgy and empty area below her workplace and when she sees something odd, she doesn't show fear. She doesn't scream, no on the contrary, she begins to try to rationalize what is happening in a manner that makes sense to her. Never one to assume danger, even when it is painfully obvious that there might be something strange happening.

That is when she meets the Doctor. A man unfamiliar and strange that saves her life right before she too succumbs to the threat. Thus, treating us to our first glimpse into the dynamic between our two leads.

She is visibly put off. Perhaps a little afraid but she asserts that the incident was nothing more than a prank. Something harmless and silly, even though it is quite obvious to us that that is not the case. It's this manner of viewing the incident that catches his attention however.

"Very clever, nice trick. Who are they then, students? Is this a student thing or what?"

"Why would they be students?"

"I don't know!"

"Well you said it, why students?"

"Cause to get that many people dressed up and being silly, they got to be students"

I find this interaction so interesting because it says a lot about her perspective. She doesn't assume the mob meant any harm. In fact, she goes out of her way to make up an even more incredulous scenario to justify their innocence, even when it is obvious that that is not the case. 

It shows nativity, but there's an underlying level of optimism there as well.

It is here where she finds out that Wilson is dead, and we see her react with concern. But notice, she doesn't assume he had anything to do with it.

Rather it's his tone that rubs her the wrong way, and she confronts the Doctor. Chastising him about joking about something so awful and even when he interrupts, she doesn't stop her pursuit for an explanation.

She is on the move right behind him, asking more questions that only seem to have more confusing answers. Following in spite of how absolutely bat shit his explanations are.

In this brief interaction, we see some of the most crucial aspects of her character. Her bravery, curiosity, and stubborn nature that allow her to remain by his side, long enough that he has to physically stop her and tell her to go home.

It is this blatant show of her character that prompts him to ask for her name.

Because here she is, confronted with the impossible yet she doesn't just stand to the side in shock. No, instead she chooses to engage with the Doctor. Trying to find a reason for what is happening, or in other words, a solution even if it's at the expense of her own well-being.

It's when we see her recovering at home, that the initial veil of an ordinary and perfect life is uncovered. Jackie is too busy on the phone to really offer any emotional support to her daughter. Gossiping on the phone about the incident, and in the minute a break presents itself, she uses that time to criticize her for not taking advantage of the situation.

I must stress that this interaction isn't included to say that Jackie is a horrible mother, quite the opposite, but she is human. RTD goes to show you that no one is perfect. That even the most well intended individual is flawed, and that everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. This is important to keep in mind when analyzing the relationships between the characters.

Even though Jackie doesn't show her support through words, she still takes the time to give her tea as she is sitting. She is doing the best she can under the circumstances in which she's in. She's conscious that their financial situation isn't ideal, and so by telling her that she should have asked for compensation, this is not to show that she is greedy, but rather it's her way of showing that she cares. That at the very least, her daughter can secure herself some money for experiencing the traumatic incident.

It shows that she's a realist, someone who views the world through a cynical lens and prioritizes survival above all else.

Similarly we meet Mickey, and he is a bit more emotional to an exaggerated degree. Showing physically that he cares with a hug and going out of his way to fuss and dote over her, but this overblown affection seems to make her uncomfortable. As if to show that she doesn't like being the center of attention, and that they are making her feel helpless at the expense of their concern.

Understanding her need for a distraction, he offers to take her to the pub but it's not long before she catches on to his true intentions. Granted he does appear to be genuine in his goal, but it's not an activity she would enjoy and so she tells him to just go alone.

Now similar to the previous point I made about the characters being flawed, that applies here too. The relationship she has with Mickey is not perfect. Mickey is trying to play the role of a perfect boyfriend. He is showering her in love and support, but we quickly see that his motivations are not completely selfless. That really that overblown affection he is showing at the moment, is an act. We see this happen again later when he tries to put on this front that he's her protector in front of Clive, but she shuts that down too. Not because she doesn't love him or appreciate the concern, but because it's not him, and this front he puts on sometimes results in him ignoring what she actually needs.

He assumes he knows what's best for her without taking into account that she might not agree. It's only when he shows that playful nature we saw earlier in the intro that Rose seems responsive to him. As if to show that it's when he's acting like himself, that she appreciates his company. Because what she needs at the moment is not for them to dictate what she should do, she just needs them to respect her decision to move on.

When he leaves, we finally see that the comfort she derives from him is really from the friendly banter they have. At the core of their relationship, is a friendship.

I find that way too many people tend to assume that everything Mickey does comes from a place of ill intent, and that is just not true. He's a person, and he too has his own motivations and emotions that may not always align with those around him. That doesn't make him a bad partner, just a flawed one.

When she wakes up, we see that yet again, she is subjected to more fussing from her mother but it is in this interaction that something interesting about Jackie is revealed.

Jackie claims that her prior job at the mall was giving her "airs and graces" and this is something she tends to bring up later too, when she feels herself becoming more distant from her daughter.

This is a reflection of Jackie's own insecurities, not Rose's actual attitude.

Whenever she sees Rose find a piece of the world to call her own, she tends to put it down. Not because she hates seeing her succeed, but because she fears that once she finds something better she'll leave her behind. That she will have to experience loss once more, at the expense of her daughter rather than her husband all that long ago.

Now this is an assumption that on her part, I'd argue, is a bit unfair given that Rose doesn't ever really show to resent where she comes from. (in Tooth and Claw, she is even named  "Dame Rose of the Powell Estate". Which shows that she is not really one to shy away from her background) Nor does she believe herself to be better than anyone, but Jackie uses it often because she knows it elicits a reaction out of her. She's grown so used to having her around, that now she can't fathom living without her and resorts to hurting her as a means of keeping her close. 

It's an attachment to her daughter that at times, can prove to be stunting to Rose's development but ties back to the long lasting grief she feels at losing Pete. Again this is not an intentional thing she does, but it is a flaw that exists and shows up when they butt heads.

(I stress this point because I've noticed that this Era of Doctor who in particular has many instances where characters declare something, only for it to be a false conclusion. It's vital that one considers not only the words, but the actions of said characters. To read into their words, rather than to take it a face value. I will be doing a lot of that here, case in point)

Rose often has to put up boundaries with Jackie. Not because she doesn't love her, but because the extent of her love and attachment can be overbearing to the point that it interferes with her life. They have survived so long by functioning as a unit, but now it's time for Rose to prioritize her own feelings and that in turn scares Jackie.

I must stress that Rose is still so young, only 19. For her to have the maturity to know how to handle her mother as well as handle the household (we see her fussing over the cat flap, demonstrating that she is constantly aware of the circumstances they live in) shows that she had to grow up fast. Being constantly aware of adult concepts such as finances and the death of a parent from a young age, tends to do that to a kid.

Now skip ahead to when nine stumbles upon her home, and she manhandles him inside lol. She takes control of the situation, offers him a cup of tea and asks him to accompany her to the police station so that they can both handle the situation.

I must stress, once again, that she has no reason to assume he's a good person. For all she knows, he could have purposefully caused the explosion to kill them all. But no, she assumes that he was just a victim like herself and aims to bring closure to the incident.

Rose is someone that assumes the best in people. We see this time and time again with how she interacts with those around her. When she is talking about the body that was found, she assumes it's Wilson and talks about how sorry she is that it happened to him and that he was a nice bloke (even though her face tells the opposite lol).

She is kind. It's in her nature to care for and care about others. It's because of this that she is able to get through to the Doctor when he tries to leave again.

So she insists that he tell her what's going on, and continues to pursue him while making conversation. At one point he asks if she believes him and she admits that she doesn't, but nonetheless she continues listening. 

A kind act she then does for Clive, which suggests that the reason why she stays is because she recognizes that everyone wants to be heard. That to be acknowledged, means to finally feel validated. Something that seems to be absent from her life, given how often both Mickey and Jackie tend to dominate conversations regarding her decisions.

She gives him the space to joke around, to add levity to the discussion but the moment he confesses that he is alone she stops it.

Because she is concerned now. He, a complete stranger yet she offers him the patience to go at his own pace. All while, she is firm in her pursuit for an answer but not at the expense of upsetting him.

This is why they work.

She has the emotional intelligence that he lacks. She challenges him by offering a perspective that completely goes against his own. And when he's being insensitive or too focused on the big picture of things, she is able to put him in his place. Reel him back in and set him straight again.

(I did a more in depth analysis on the 9th doctor here if you're interested!)

It isn't until after she leaves Clive that we see her actually start to reconsider the direction that her life is going in. Because now more than ever, she realizes just how narrow her perception of the world really is. How insignificant her life is, in the grand scope of the universe.

She reminisces, talking about how she could go back to school now that she has the extra time to spend. Another decision, mind, that was done on behalf of someone else and she is starting to regret.

She asks for Mickey's opinion but him not actually being him, isn't able to give his input and changes the subject.

"I'm sorry, was I talking about me for a second?"

Her offense is something that stands out to me, however.

Based on prior interactions, one can come to the conclusion that Rose is not as open as she appears to be at first glance. When Mickey attempted to appease her by offering her the space to talk about the explosion, she shut him down and later on refused to include him in her meeting with Clive. She even went as far as to lie about her prior involvement with the Doctor to her mother. Which in turn suggests that it's not often that she has aspects of her life that are solely hers and so, when she finds something, she keeps it to herself.

This could be due to a number of reasons, but I suspect it is because of the company she keeps around.

Her mother criticizes her job and asks her to change it, and Mickey dissuades her decision to go looking for Clive. She keeps things close to her chest because she's aware that the people in her life won't often support them.

Then the Doctor interrupts, and Mickey is revealed to be a clone. Panic arises but her being the selfless person she is, presses the fire alarm as a means of ensuring that more people won't get hurt. This also shows one of her biggest strengths as a character, she is incredibly clever. Even though she dropped out of school at a young age, she has a knack for finding solutions with very little resources. She's sharp and has a level headed approach that makes her perfect for a crisis. 

It also shows that she has a habit of putting others before herself, because before Mickey even attacked, she was already standing next to the button.

Her compassion, bravery, and quick thinking are what ultimately drive her to save the Doctor's life. Because I'm spite of being in trouble himself, he pleads that she save herself at the price of his own life. Proving to her, that he is not responsible for the death follows him. And in turn she realizes that the life she is living is truly stunting her, because it's her putting faith into her own capabilities that allows her to save him.

That she, just like the Doctor, is capable of doing something beyond what she thought was out of her reach.

That she is free to live a life not constrained by the ordinary.

Now I'll skip ahead to the big decision; the one that seals her fate as his companion and a decision I often see people misunderstand. The decision to stay with the Doctor is not one that comes easily. Her initial rejection of his request is one that displays her hesitance.

Note that it is not because she doesn't want to, that much is evident from the way she's gazing longingly at the Tardis. But because Mickey's pleading is getting to her. He is latching onto her, metaphorically and literally; not taking the time to consider how she might feel about the opportunity.

He does not trust that she knows what's best, which is made evident in the way he often doubts her.

Up until now Rose has been someone that puts everyone above herself when it comes to making decisions. She has to consider their feelings, to the point that she feels the need to hide things from them.

Her mother.

Mickey.

And now she's going to let them snub out that little spark she just discovered she has.

It's because of this that she thanks Mickey before she leaves. Because it's his helplessness that helps her realize how fit for a life of thrills she is. While he was cowering, she in turn was thriving in the danger.

Him doing nothing but clinging to her, made her realize that she is capable of doing so much more than what she could do at his side. That she has the potential to save many lives and make a difference in the world.

So she leaves.

She is not angry at him when she does, quite the opposite, it's him being true to himself in a crisis that puts things into perspective.

The next episode makes her confront the reality of the path she has chosen.

He takes her to the end of the world and she realizes that her role is not to stop the inevitable. The Doctor is not someone that is responsible for preventing bad things from occurring, no, he is a witness to them just like she is.

This confession comes with the loaded realization that not every adventure will end happily. That death is not something that can be avoided and that the Doctor is not a hero. This shows her naivety, and through this adventure, she begins to lose some of it.

She freaks out at seeing the "relics" of the human race. All things she is familiar with, yet, it comes with the startling realization that everyone is dead. 

That she is the last of her kind alive.

So she runs.

In spite of it all being such a shock to her, however, she still has the ability to reach out to someone. Finding comfort in talking to an alien by the name of Rufalo, and asking for her name and background. Extending kindness to someone that she doesn't have to, because it in turn brings her happiness. It shows she is someone that cares for others, regardless of what they look like. That at her core, she is kind and considerate.

One of my favorite scenes that perfectly demonstrates this point is an underrated scene where she talks to a plant. She previously observed that one of the aliens that initially greeted her is a tree descendant that gifts her a piece of her grandfather, and she addresses it shyly.

"Hello, my name's Rose, that's a sort of plant. We might be related..I'm talking to a twig."

It's played for laughs but it demonstrates that her ability to want to understand others comes from a place of wanting to relate to them. She talks to the tree with respect and views it as an equal before realizing that it's just that, a twig.

When the Doctor finds her and begins to appease her by making jokes at the expense of the aliens, she once again surprises him with her reaction.

She gets offended.

All on behalf of the deep south aliens that cannot defend themselves in the current moment from his scrutiny, because she is able to humanize them. To see them as people, in spite of the obvious differences they may have.

This suggests that Rose's first instinct when out of her element, is to try to understand and sympathize.

That way of being, is what causes her to turn her questions on him.

Why he is so quick to judge others.

Why he is able to maintain that sense of levity as he sees the world burn.

And why he seems so touchy about his background.

Something that I wish to add, because we have an instance of this happening in this episode, is that her need to understand others might be rooted in the perception others seem to have of her. People tend to diminish her value because of how she looks. In this episode, Jabe, the tree lady presumes that Rose is the doctor's concubine or even a prostitute. This is why she gets offended and tells them both off.

(This happens a lot more than I realized on my first watch, and a lot of people write it off as her being jealous when that's not the case. That isn’t to say that she doesn’t display some jealousy at times, but it genuinely does not occur as often as people claim it does)

This is also why Cassandra gets under her skin so much. Because she presumes that Rose is inferior and looks down on others but that alone is not enough to justify her being killed. She makes that clear when she pleads for the Doctor to save her.

We also get some insight on why her dad's death left such an impact on her. It's brief but while watching the earth melt away, she says this:

"it's gone, we're too busy saving ourselves no one saw it go. All those years, all that history and nobody was even looking."

Even though she didn't know him personally, the fact that he died alone is something that deeply troubles her. To anyone else he was just a man, yet to her and her mother he was a father, someone that was meant to be a part of her life. He should have had someone there, just like how the earth deserved to be remembered in its final moments by those who personally lived in it. To die without anyone you care for acknowledging your importance must be haunting.

The reason why she stays with the Doctor is for the same reason why the tragedy of her father's death deeply affected her, she doesn't want him to be alone. Loneliness can be so terrible. Had it not been for the Doctor being with her, she would have felt overwhelmed by the weight of the world's end. It's having him there that made the pain bearable. She understands this, and so, she takes it upon herself to be the person he has to look his way. To be the hand he has to hold when everything becomes too much.

But the question remains, to what extents is she willing to go to ensure that he will be okay?

Gradually we see Rose become more confident in her ability to command and reason. She no longer hesitates to step in and offer her perspective, all while she continues to extend her kindness to others. This at times, clashes with the Doctor's own priorities but nonetheless his exposure to her has an effect.

It is in the episode Dalek however, where that kindness takes on a new form, a merciful killing. Up until now Rose has been the one to tell the Doctor to give the perpetrators a second chance. To see the good in others even when it's difficult.

But now this creature that has killed many, is changing. It's growing aware, disturbed, and it's all because of her. She stops the doctor from killing it, but now the creature wants to die. It does not want to become like her. It does not want to become so human that it becomes aware of all it's done and how lonely it is.

For the first time, she is made to confront that her kindness might have just condemned someone to a more miserable end. That humanity is not something that every creature strives for, and that at times the kind decision comes with a price.

So she does what it asks, and orders it to die. Saving the Doctor from sullying his hands with more blood but at the price of her own becoming unclean. Are these the depths to which she would go to ensure the Doctor's wellbeing?

The next two episodes explore what happens when Rose underestimates her ability to make mistakes.

She's become more confident, taking along Adam to their next adventure because she believes she has a good judge of character. Plus he’s kind of pretty, so that’s a plus for her lol

She wants to be the impressive one now and share that wonder for the universe with someone else. To see what it looks like from the perspective of a new pair of eyes, because to her it has all become kind of normal.

The price of understanding the Doctor more, is that it comes at the price of her humanity. She will no longer be able to sustain her naivety towards how cruel the world can be. It will become harder to judge when she is viewing things in a rational human way, or through the eyes of someone that has grown desensitized to the chaos.

In retrospect, I don't think it's a coincidence she is wearing red here. She has now witnessed a death at her hands, and she is trying to regain control. To remember what it's like to view the world through the eyes of someone normal like Adam.

With time, she will grow to be a stranger amongst other humans. She will have a harder time relating to others because her understanding of the world far surpasses there’s. 

Oh but Adam is not like her. Because she assumes everyone is well intentioned, she fails to realize that he might hold ulterior motives. When he fails her, she realizes that she is also capable of making a bad call. That the Doctor is holding her to a standard and if she makes a mistake like Adam, she too can be left behind.

Father's day is where we finally see her make a misstep and it's one hell of a problem. Her initial goal was to be there for her father and comfort him in his final moments, but she realizes quickly that seeing it is far more disturbing than she had initially anticipated.

He's her father. Seeing him die once is bad enough, but twice? All while fully aware that she can easily prevent it? It's a temptation that is far too great to pass up. But quickly she realizes her mistake and she can't think rationally, she is far too emotional to reason with.

"but he's alive,"

"my entire planet died, my whole family. Do you think it never occurred to me to go back and save them?"

"but it's not like I've changed history, not much. I mean he's never gonna be a world leader. He's not gonna start world war 3 or anything"

"Rose there's a man alive in the world who wasn't alive before. An ordinary man. That's the most important thing in creation."

She overestimated what she understood about travelling in time. She realizes this, but her pride will not let her stand down. She wrongly uses his loneliness as a means of keeping him there, knowing that he would never actually leave her but alas he does. In doing so, granting her a once in a lifetime chance to get to know her father personally.

With this opportunity comes the realization that her father was not the man her mother told her about. 

Not successful nor heroic, but flawed like any other man.

She finds out that he and Jackie had a strained relationship, nothing like the perfect relationship her mother described. That he had had an affair and that they were not on the best terms when he died. Really, her mother was protecting her from the reality of the situation. All for the sake of giving her a father figure that would not disappoint her, even in death.

But on the flip side, she is also able to know the best parts of him. Now she has a reference of who he was at his best as well. She is able to have him recognize her as his daughter and when he realizes the extent of her mistake, he takes on the responsibility to right her wrong. So that his blood is not on her hands, and so that she will remember him as the proper father he would have been after he’s gone. 

Note that he does this for her, not because she wouldn't have eventually asked it of him, but because he doesn't want the guilt of his second death to be on her.

She apologizes of course, to the Doctor but not before he does the same. It is in this moment, that she realizes how much she means to him and in turn, how much he means to her. 

When viewing this scene, once should keep in mind that the episode draws many parallels between the Doctor and her father. At one point, it states that she considers the Doctor to be the most important man in her life. so when her father comes along, in misplaced anger she asserts that the Doctor did not want her father to live because it would threaten his importance to her.

The reason why I draw attention to this detail is because I believe this is the episode where she realizes she loves the Doctor romantically. 

When her father touches her face as he recognises her as his daughter, she nestles into it like a little kid seeking comfort from a parent. Now that she knows what it feels like to have a proper father, she has a better understanding of what that kind of love feels like. 

So when the Doctor does the same thing, she stares deeply into his eyes as if just realizing what he means to her. Her reaction to him is almost shy and stiff, very unlike her usual temperament.

I think this is the moment she realizes her feelings for the Doctor are not that of her trying to fill a void her father left, but of a different origin entirely. The reason I say this is because these two scenes, mirror each other down to the camera angle. With both shots, focusing on her reaction to the touch.

I don’t think it is a coincidence that earlier in the episode, she gets mad when her father assumes the Doctor is her boyfriend. She even expresses confusion on why people think they’re together, which wouldn’t really make much sense if she had felt romantic attraction to him prior to this moment.

This isn't to say that she purposefully projected such an image onto the Doctor, not at all. But I think it's this experience that finally gives a name to what she was feeling for him all along. Something that started off as platonic but eventually morphed into romantic love.

(I can’t believe that I just claimed Rose might have daddy issues but here it is. On the bright side though, this goes to prove that the Doctor fell for her first so do as you wish with that assertion lol)

Then Jack appears and finally, their attraction for one another becomes obvious to everyone but one another lol. This is where the whole dancing scene happens and I think you all know what they meant lol I don't have to make an in depth analysis about it. 

(But how curious that she suddenly starts being more blatant with her flirting, after Father’s Day? Just sayinnng)

I must stress now, because this will become critical later on, that Rose is naturally very flirty and touchy. She's like that with most people it seems, but she never really means anything by it. When Jack appears, she finds him attractive but when he starts getting too close she begins to feel uncomfortable. 

She even stops his advances at one point. She likes being liked, even plays into it, but she never acts on her attraction. It's a flaw of hers in the same way the 10th doctor likes being chased by beautiful women, but she's never unfaithful.

Okay so I'm going to say something really radical here, but Boomtown is when Rose and Mickey breakup. For good. Personally, I am not of the belief that they were together in season 2.

The reason why I say this is because the moment Mickey and Rose are left alone, all she can do is recount stories about the Doctor and how great their adventures are. It is here where we see what was pointed out to us previously: that she would eventually outgrow the outlook of those around her. She is no longer the Rose he knew, or fell for. She has grown more confident, happier, and can no longer relate to him. 

In other words, she has outgrown him.

It’s here where Mickey tells her that he is seeing someone else. 

Rose does become a little jealous here, making a comment about the girl's weight, but she quickly realizes it's not appropriate and takes it back. Instead, commenting that she's a nice girl. 

Now remember how I mentioned that at the core of their romantic relationship was a friendship, we see that here more than ever.

When he suggests they find a hotel, she reminds him that he has someone and then questions why he is even with Trisha if she’s not the girl he usually goes for. (They grew up together, so it makes sense why she would know what his type is). This doesn't seem as if she's asking because she's jealous but because she's confused on why he's settling for someone. 

She is concerned for his wellbeing.

To which he admits he is and that he can't move on because he is still in love with her. When he asks if he wants him to wait for her, she can't answer. Not because she is unsure of her answer, but because she knows what it is. Her heart is no longer his.

Her running at the sound of trouble and refusing to answer is the answer. It will never be him. She cannot promise him something that just isn't what she feels anymore. Him yelling that “of course it will always be the Doctor”, is him confirming it. That what they had, has ended. 

This is the moment they break up. Her seeking him out afterwards is not her trying to mend the romantic relationship they had, but the friendship.

But it is too late.

When she returns after the Slitheen crisis ends, he is no longer there. He will not wait for her anymore and when asked about his whereabouts, she concedes that he will not join them when they leave because he deserves better.

This is her acknowledging that she did wrong in having him wait. She cries because it ended in such a heartbreaking way, but not because it is no more.

She realizes she hurt him, and this guilt follow her into season 2.

The reason why I am so confident on this is because they’re never really all that affectionate after this. Yes they hold hands and hug, but that’s something she did with the Doctor long before they were together. They never share a kiss, and the only one that ever refers to their relationship as something more, is the Doctor.

(Who I must add, has his own motivations for doing so. Mainly out of jealousy, and because it creates a barrier between the Doctor and Rose's relationship. I swear, you can't trust these people lol)

That's why her attachment to him never really presents itself as an issue later. Weeell not until the Doctor inserts him as a means of putting a wedge between the two of them. But I am getting ahead of myself here.

Skipping to the final episode, Rose is tricked into leaving the Doctor and she is left to confront what life without him is like.

This is the girl who, at the thought of her father dying alone, almost broke the universe to grant him some companionship in his final moments. 

He is dying out there, somewhere she can't reach.

And in the meantime, she waits helplessly as the man she loves is trapped in the future, unable to do anything but mourn him.

For the first time, we are confronted with a version of Rose that is devoid of any hope. A sight so unfamiliar to both Mickey and Jackie, that they don’t know what to do or say to make it better. 

That does not stop them from trying, however.

It's here that Jackie is able to admit that she admires him for doing what he did. This confession is a big deal because it highlights the beginning of a major change in perspective for her. 

The reason why Jackie and the Doctor’s relationship is so strained to begin with, is because she feared that he would be the catalyst to Rose’s eventual departure. She projected her insecurities onto him, often portraying him as the type to endanger her daughter on purpose and the reason why her life was such chaos. Yet, in this moment she concedes that she was wrong, that the Doctor is more noble than she had initially given him credit for. 

He's not selfish like she initially presumed, but selfless; choosing to prioritize her safety, over his own loneliness.

When Rose questions what she is expected to do now, Mickey is offended. He cannot understand the extent of her feelings, so he resorts to the defensive. Claiming that she must a sense of superiority if she thinks she is not capable of assuming a normal life like anyone else. But just as was shown before, both him and Jackie are very flawed people. They have their agendas and so they impose what they think is best onto her, without considering their own biases.  

Because they care, they assume rather than listen ... but she's no longer the same Rose.

She is different. 

No longer naive and no longer fit to live a life that doesn't have him in it. Not solely out of love, but because she felt she was at her best there.

"it was a better life, I don't mean all the traveling and... Seeing aliens and spaceships and things, that don't matter. The Doctor showed me a better way of living your life."

She criticizes Mickey for assuming the worst of her in that moment, as he has seen first hand the change she went through. That's why they broke up after all, because that change made her harder to hold onto.

With that change however, is the realization that living a normal life would mean to throw away all the growth she went through. 

To abandon her new sense of purpose, and lose that part of herself that refused to give up. The side of her that held onto hope, in spite of all odds being against her.

And finally, to give up would mean to lose the Doctor: the man that believed in her and never stopped.

When she says there's nothing left for her there, on earth, she means it. She would rather die than live a life without him in it. 

She's an emotional wreck at the thought of losing him but other than it just being a statement said in the heat of the moment, I find that she might also have a point.

Sure it's harsh, I won't deny it but really other than her mother, what is there to keep her there? 

Everyone, even ordinary people, leave home eventually. That is just reality. Her mother is there, yes, but one day she will die. Rose will be all that’s left, because not even Mickey will measure up to the Doctor and it is unfair to expect him to fill his place. 

She will be expected to live a life where not even one person understands her and in the process, forget the part of herself that she grew to love.

What they're asking of her is to give up on the part of the world that she has made her own. To hide the spark that made her into who she is, because that's how much the experience has become a part of her identity as a person.

It's selfish, but doesn't that apply to everyone? Who's happiness has not come at the expense of other people? By asking her to give up her life with the Doctor, are they not doing the same to her?

The reason why knowing that she met her father seemingly changes Jackie's mind is because the revelation is a confirmation that Rose has grown up. Her distress is not out of a naive love that Rose holds towards the Doctor, no, she is aware of the implications of what she is saying.

The reason why Jackie never told her the truth about her father is because at the time, she was a little girl who could not understand that her dad was not a perfect man. She meant to protect her innocence, even if it came at the expense of the truth.

But she realizes then, that she is not that little girl anymore. That before her stands a young woman, who no longer needs her protection. One who has accomplished impossible feats on her own merit, and grew not because of her, but in spite of her.

So when Rose tells her that she has found her place in the world, she means it.

Not to mention, the Doctor was able to give her a sense of comfort that not even she could give her. Granting her a sense of closure and thus cementing just how incredible of a life she is leaving behind. 

Jackie’s own fear of abandonment, is not enough to blind her to how important of a task this is to Rose.

This is why they help her in spite of it potentially meaning her death. Because to ask her to leave it all behind without trying, would be the equivalent of killing her. The version of herself that was forged from the experiences aboard the Tardis.

Season 2 is effectively what occurs when the reality of falling for a man indebted to the universe, starts to settle in.

His regeneration makes her confront the fact that he is unlike any human man. That the rules that define human relationships, will not apply to their own. With that in mind, she seemingly loses her footing amidst the chaotic revelation. 

She struggles to take control of the alien invasion, not because she doesn't know how, but because everything she knew to be true has changed. The foundation of all she stood for, has been broken and she has no idea what her place in all of it is.

When she realizes that he is still him, her acceptance comes with the acknowledgment that their circumstances have changed. That she will have to accept those alien aspects of himself, and redefine her prior assertions of what a life with him would mean in the long run. Because now more than ever, the love between the two of them is stronger than ever. But neither is willing to sacrifice the greater good for it.

Something I need people to understand is that the reason why their relationship doesn't become anything more than a friendship, until Tentoo, is because both are aware that his duty is something he can't abandon. It's a conscious decision on both their parts, not just on Tens.

We see this time and time again when Ten is made to confront the possibility of her death. She is not immune to the misfortune of the world and she knows this. But just because she's aware of this, doesn't mean that she lets it stunt the enjoyment of her life.

This is where their perspectives drastically differ. On one hand you have ten who recognizes that he is not human. The world is cruel and to give in to his love for her would mean losing her eventually. This is why after he is confronted with Sarah Jane, he can't bring himself to describe why she is different. 

Why she is his exception.

So he brings along Mickey to act as a buffer. This is why Rose seemingly disagrees with his idea to bring him along. Her and Mickey are just friends. He still has feelings for Rose, she knows, and to involve him is to give him the impression that he still has a chance. Again, it's not out of jealousy. If it were, she wouldn’t have been so keen on bringing along Sarah Jane Smith after this adventure or Mickey in season 1.

At the price of his comfort, he cruelly doesn’t consider Mickey’s perspective. 

She makes this clear later on when he asks why he was tempted to explore Pete’s world.

“Mickey’s mum just couldn’t cope. His dad hung around for a while, but then just sort of wandered off.He was brought up by his gran. She was such a great woman. God, she used to slap him! But then she died. She tripped and fell down the stairs. It’s about five years ago now. I was still in school.”

“I never knew”

“Well, you never asked.”

“You never said.”

It is his inability, ironically, to not think beyond his best interests that has a tendency to hurt those around him.

The funny thing is, the episode where she is supposed to act jealous and petty is actually the episode where we explore why Rose is such a great match for the Doctor. Because even though Madame de Pompadour belittles her importance to the Doctor and seems to be the main focus of his affectons, Rose still does what she can to save her.

This is who she is. 

Yes, she can be emotional at times but when it really matters, she can put those feelings aside to do what is right. This is something that we see develop in her since season 1. It shows that she is aware of the duty the Doctor has to protect time itself, and it's here that we see her take an active part in it herself.

When Mickey taunts her out of jealousy of their relationship, asserting that the Doctor's intentions are not as pure as she thinks they are, she is quick to defend him. Because she understands that he is not someone that intentionally hurts others. No, he is flawed and his duties are too important to be held to a human standard.

That isn't to say that she is immune to falling victim to the same dark assumptions.

(We see this plainly in the prior episode too, where Mickey's taunts begin to get to her and she assumes the Doctor doesn't value his companions)

It hurts her. You can see that, in the way that she stares longingly into the distance. Coming to terms with the implication of having been left behind, and her role in his life. She will never be his priority. Not when he is the only one left, to ensure that the world won’t plummet in the absence of his own people. 

It is this reasoning that allows her to look beyond herself and reach out to him when he is grieving the loss of Reinette. To ask him if he’s alright, even if its at the cost of her own feelings.

“I’m always alright.”

It is here that she realizes how much he is holding back. How much the constant death is weighing over him. And so, she gives him the space he needs in the meantime. Displaying that strength she has, at the cost of seeing the Doctor at his weakest.

I think this is why in the next episode, when they are trapped in an alternate universe, Ten is seemingly afraid that he might lose her. I mean, to an extent that seems almost overblown but, it makes sense if one infers it's because of how he acted in the prior episode.

 Not only because he seemingly put a wedge between the two of them, but also because more than ever she is aware that his duty is to the universe and not to her. He realizes the extent to which he has taken her love and loyalty for granted. 

How more than ever she is aware that whatever is between the two of them, will never be.

(Personally I see this as his punishment for being so careless in his actions in the prior episodes. Till this day, I still can't watch that episode without feeling so bad for Rose)

His fear is a reflection of his own insecurity: that alien side of him that is incapable of understanding why Rose would choose him above all else.

Rose is not one that would ever hold it against him, however. For the sake of blaming himself, he underestimates the depths of her awareness to the situation they're both in.

She loves him unconditionally. She doesn't expect him to drop his duty. No, more than ever she is aware of the toll it takes on him, from a second hand perspective. 

This is why in Doomsday when Jackie criticizes her for becoming too alien, and for not settling down, she stresses that she will never have a normal life because the Doctor never will. It was never the traveling that made her stay, it was him. The thought of him facing the world alone, to revert back into a miserable version of himself because he has no one to ground him, is a reality she can't live with.

(not to mention, her becoming too desensitized to the life she lives is a problem that can be traced back to season 1 as well. Showing that this is very much a real thing that can happen if she doesn't maintain something that grounds her to the human world)

So she takes it upon herself to be there for him when he hasn't asked. This is incredibly selfless and consistent to her character since season 1.

So when she seeks out Pete, she's not really doing it with the intention of staying. She's curious to see who her father is in a universe where he seemingly lives. Because to her, he is her father regardless of whether or not the body he is in is the original. This universe's versions of the people in her life does not make them any less valid simply because they're slightly different, at the core of them is the people she loves. 

In every universe is a version of the person she loves that when prompted, will save her. This is seen in how it's seemingly these two versions of her parents that do something to help her even at their own expense. With this Pete, being the one to save her before she gets sucked into the void and this Jackie, being the one to save them both from an immediate conversion

(Hint hint, this is the attitude that prompts her to accept Tentoo and it's also a big part of her journey in the Rose Tyler dimension cannon audios.)

This is also the episode where her friendship with Mickey essentially ends for the time being. Seeing how much the Doctor and Rose have grown to love one another gives him the courage to leave. To find that part of the world that is his, even if it means putting a pause on his friendship with Rose. It hurts her to see him go, goes to show you how close they are, but Rose understands that this is something he has to do. That he, just like she did with the Doctor, has to put himself first.

This is why in their final moments together they don't kiss. It parallels her first departure, but without the affirmation that they're going to continue their romantic relationship.

In the kiss they do share earlier, it is one sided.  Initiated by Mickey and one that Rose doesn't seem responsive to, doesn't even close her eyes. It comes unnaturally to the two of them, as if to show how their relationship has changed.

Rose does not share the same outlook that the Doctor does. It's because of this, that their perspectives have a tendency to clash when they're in danger. 

She doesn’t let the moments they have together be weighed down by the knowledge that their time together is limited. No, it is that knowledge that helps her be more outright with her affections towards him. Carrying the strength and hope they both need to continue finding the joy in living in the present. 

We see this presented explicitly, when they realize they're stuck on Krop Tor.

"Can you build another Tardis?

"They were grown, not built. And with my whole planet gone, we're kind of stuck."

"Well it could be worse. This lot said they'd give us a lift."

"Then what?"

"I don't know. Find a planet. Get a job. You live a life same as the rest of the universe.

The Doctor can't handle the thought of Rose dying. You see this, in the manner that he is so quick to give up hope once he has accepted their potential doom. 

It goes to show that the strength and peppy attitude he has, is nothing more than a mask. That deep inside, he is afraid and struggling to hold it back.

This is where we seemingly see how he really is, how he really feels. 

How hesitant he is at accepting that there's a way out. 

How quickly he reverts back to cynicism when he isn't reminded that there's still something to fight for.

Rose understands this. 

It's because of this, that she resorts to humor. Telling him about the potential outcomes of their current situation, that won't end in death. That even as they wait for their inevitable end, they can still enjoy their final moments together.

It's in that moment, where they're both vulnerable that she admits she sees herself sharing a life with him. Something that seemingly stuns him back to the present, and causes him to put his walls up.

This must be terrifying to him. 

To have someone understand him so well, that he is caught off guard by how quickly she is able to bypass any prior barriers.

"I promised Jackie I would always take you back home"

"Everyone leaves home in the end"

"Not to end up stuck here."

"Yeah but stuck with you, that's not so bad."

"Yeah?"

"Yes"

It's her ability to not take his reluctance to voice his feelings personally, that causes him to smile. Because it's the moment he realizes that she sees him for who he is, and understands.

It's her capability to see what he means to say that prompts her to kiss his helmet right before he goes. It is what gives them the strength to watch one another as he drops below the surface with Ida.

In other words, it is what gives her the confidence to reaffirm what he means to her even if he can't express it back.

"Oh she knows"

That is why he doesn't see the need to voice how much he loves her right before he drops to the unknown. In a leap of faith, he realizes that really the only belief he really holds is in Rose Tyler. That he will have another opportunity to voice his feelings, away from imminent death.

Rose also devotes all her belief in him, and willingly shoots at the glass in an attempt to survive for his sake.

Beyond all reason, it's this complete devotion to one another that causes them to overcome the challenges that stand in their way. It is what motivates them to assume that the other is alive, even when the odds are against them.

It's this faith, that gives them the strength to continue living once they're separated…only to then reunite in season 4.

(Where another parallel can be found, in how they both seemingly always end up running towards one another. They both hold on to the one person they know will never fail them.)

"Love and Monsters" demonstrates the extent of Jackie's loneliness. She is a single mother who fills the void her husband left with casual relationships. Her daughter is the only real constant part of her life and the fact that she was "left behind" by her Pete is what causes her to harden and see the world very critically. 

It explains why she had such a hard time understanding Rose and her manner of thinking, because it goes against what she craves: security.

This is why she struggled to let her go, but now the Doctor is essentially her family too, and so her loyalty extends to him too. The Tylers are exceptionally loyal, they love unashamedly and they lend a hand to anyone who needs it: Mickey and the Doctor. They may clash often, but that loyalty is what allows them to hold on to one another in spite of their flaws as people. 

They're the ultimate ride or dies.

Jackie and Rose are very alike in this way, this is why they often fight. Their love for the people in their lives is so intense, that they have trouble separating that love from their decisions. It is what gives them the strength to stay by the side of their loved ones, even if it means sacrificing their own needs.

But something that I think people overblow is the reason why Jackie tells her that she's becoming someone unlike herself.

The reason why Rose's life was able to be relatively stable, unlike some companions who came after her, is because she makes an effort to maintain both her human life and her life in the stars. They're intricately intertwined, much like how Donna is also able to maintain her foundation in spite of the memory loss.

The Doctor really isn't her whole life if you think about it. She is not being forced to stay by his side and she does take the time to spend time with family outside of their adventure. 

She chooses to concentrate on their relationship but she has the choice to divide time for others as well.

There is another aspect of her, that I feel like too many people might misunderstand.

She doesn't think of herself as the Doctor's replacement. Her role by his side does not conflate her self importance, she is more than aware that ultimately she is not him. That she, is not granted the same liberties that he has to put her life on the line. 

She knows she is not the Doctor. And she, is comfortable with embracing her role as his companion. She wishes to share his responsibility, not take it over.

This is why she is able to maintain this human aspect of herself for so long. She's still compassionate and understanding, because the tough call is not on her hands most of the time. If it was, she would have gradually lost that part of herself in season 1. But nonetheless it becomes a possible outcome if she's not careful, just like her mother warned.

When she is clinging for her life in Doomsday, something I don't see enough people point out is how truly selfless Rose was at this moment to let go of her hold, for the good of humanity. She reaches for the lever, knowing that there is a good chance she will die, this is why she takes the time to look at him while she desperately holds on.

She wants the last person she sees to be the man she loves; to find the courage to do what is right at the cost of her own life. It was not done out of recklessness.

This is why they are perfect for one another. Because they both understand that they are not the center of the universe, that ultimately, the duty they now share comes first.

This is explored further in the Dimension Cannon audios, that gives context to the development she goes through that leads to her reappearance in season 4.

Her reasons for using the dimension cannon are more complex than they appear at first glance. Her sole reason for finding him is not only because of the love she feels for him, but because she also has to put a stop to the mass destruction of every universe. 

I see way too many people use her reasoning for coming back as evidence that she has this weird obsession with the Doctor, and that's just not true. 

She seeks him out because she has to. 

If she gets to stay with him afterwards, that's just a plus.

(from here on out, I will give out some direct spoilers on said audios to provide more context to the development we see in show. Skip to after the 2nd row of asterisks if you don’t wish to be spoiled)

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It is in the realm of the audios, that Rose is entrusted to travel to parallel worlds without the prior knowledge of knowing where she will end up. Every universe is doomed, and she has to find allies in the parallel versions of the people she loves to pick up on details required to find her original world.

There is no such thing as a parallel Doctor. So she must figure out a way to get back to him and warn him, without his help.

Now I must stress, these audios get dark really fast. 

They do not hold back on showing just how awful this duty is, and how it comes at the expense of her humanity and moral code.

At times, she has to manipulate these parallel versions of her friends and family into helping her. To use them, up until she is forced to leave and in doing so, condemning them to a long and painful death.

 Over and over again. 

Imagine what that does to a person? 

To see the people you love, realize that you can't save them. To leave them behind, while hearing them plead for their lives to be saved.

She takes this duty on, under the pretense that her familiarity with the Doctor makes her the most ideal candidate for the job. She embarks on her first trip, thinking that this might be the closest thing she has to being on another adventure and that in the process, she could save some worlds in his absence.

But it's in fulfilling the role as the universe's protector that she realizes just what she signed up for. She becomes the Doctor's replacement, in the same way Jack Harkness takes on Torchwood and partakes in the duty to protect the earth. 

Yet what makes her different from those two, is that she is mortal. She doesn't have the tools they have at her disposal nor the wisdom that they have gained over the span of their extended lives.

No, she can die.

She cannot save anyone.

And there truly is nothing to guarantee that she will succeed. 

We see her struggle to maintain her distance, to not promise a way out to the people she encounters because there is none. She is no hero, she is their angel of death.

In an act of defiance to the death that will follow her, on her first trip, she saves an alternate version of Clive and takes him under her wing. Only to come to the realization that one life is not enough to make up for all the millions that died under her watch.

It is because of this that she opts to not embark on said missions alone anymore. Instead, she takes her own Pete, Jackie, and Clive only to find that they too struggle to maintain their distance. If not for them, then who will ground her?

It's in one of these solo missions, that she crumbles under the weight of the responsibility that she adopted. 

In a twist of fate, she is imprisoned inside a red phone box. Trapped inside with no means of escaping, and no real guarantee that she will find a means of leaving before the world goes to shit.

It is in this moment, where she is left to wallow in her situation, that we see her break down. She admits this to her mother, who can hear her through the intercom.

"I can't"

"Rose you're scaring me, just get out. Find a way"

"I'm locked inside a police box."

"What? A Tardis?"

"No Mum, a real one. A red one, all musty on the inside."

"Well you gotta get out."

“I know.”

I'll skip ahead, but I felt this was necessary to include to show how dire the situation is.

"I'm sorry.”

“Rose?”

 “It’s the same mom. Same doors, same noise, same light through the windows-I think they’re a bit smaller. If I half close my eyes, i’m there..but it’s not, i’m not. I’m not him. I’m not a time lord. No psychic paper. No sonic, No centuries of knowledge. Only one heart..”

“Sweetheart, I know it hurts but you gotta get it together.”

“How?”

“I don’t know, pick a lock or something?”

“How did he do it?”

“Sheer cheek, most of the time”

“He lit up every room he was in, they always listen to him! He walked through hell like it was a walk in the park.”

Because now she realizes how important it was for him to remain strong, to smile in the face of danger. Before it was easy to assume that she understood everything there was about how he looked at the world. The size of the burden, and what it meant to share it.

But now she’s in his shoes and the truth is starting to settle in. Jackie says this in response, as a means of putting things into perspective for Rose.

“If the universe needs the Doctor, then the universe needs Rose Tyler to find the Doctor. I’m so proud of you but you need to stay alive. One heart. One life, you got that?”

Rose never sought to replace him, we see that here in the manner that she can't handle being in his shoes. She is starting to develop that very same cynicism that he once had and is beginning to feel a sense of inferiority.

This is why she needs someone with her, much like how the Doctor needs a companion. This is a duty that he has to share with someone, not alone.

Jackie believes in her strength, because she knows that she has it in her to prevail. Rose and the Doctor are not the same, but nonetheless she is now the closest thing he has to an equal. And she has to learn to handle this new responsibility through her own means, not by what the Doctor believes is right.

(This is as far as I will share because there's still one audio left in the series and it has yet to come out, so I will hold on to my final conclusions until then. In the meantime though, I urge you all to check them out. They are absolutely worth it!)

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But with this in mind, the hardened version of Rose we see in season 4 makes more sense. It's why the thought of having an alternate Donna die doesn't really dissuade her into using her, and why she is so unlike the Rose Tyler we knew. 

She has matured.

This is reflected in her clothing: the overly practical nature of her outfit and her leather jacket. It purposefully parallels the outfit her first Doctor wore at his lowest point. The version of himself that was overwhelmed by the responsibility he held to uphold what his people once did.

I believe it's this new understanding of his perspective that stops her from putting a name to the nature of their relationship to Donna. She assumes they're together, but Rose neither agrees nor denies her assumption. 

Because she can't make that decision on his behalf, not when he has so much at stake.

It is this new attitude that also seemingly makes her more distant. Less forgiving towards the Dalek threat and less inclined for a peaceful confrontation because she understands that sacrifices must be made for the greater good. It's why she serves as his support system throughout all the chaos, she knows now how overwhelming it is.

Yet that part of her that seeks to comfort those she loves is still there. We see this in the way that when the Doctor is struck, she does not waste time wallowing in all that she has done to get to him. No, she puts aside her feelings and tells him how much she missed him. Tells him she's been busy, as a means of not burdening him with all that she has done to get to him.

(Just as an additional tidbit, I don't know why people use these small bouts of jealousy she briefly displays in the first half of this two parter to justify why they believe Rose wouldn't get along with other companions. She canonically does lol She even compliments Martha and is seen to be on good terms with both Donna and Sarah Jane? Her initial jealousy stemmed from disappointment in being left out. It's not enough to warrant the impression that she is a jealous person all the time.)

With all this in mind, it also offers an additional reason as to why she ultimately ends up choosing Tentoo.

Her final decision is not done on a whim, no, it's her being exposed to the constant dread of a life in his shoes, that puts things into perspective.

She cannot continue chasing after him.

When she is returned to that beach, she comes to the realization that the Doctor is going to decide what is best for her, again. 

In the time they have spent apart, he hasn't changed his outlook on his prior decision. He is still firm in his belief that she is better off living without him (the timelord version), so much so that he does not ask for her input.

It's because of this that she decides to not back down. To not let him think that he can get away with deciding on her behalf because she's not the same woman she was all those years ago. 

Given that it's her life, it is she who needs to make the final call.

Notice that what she asks, when deciding what path to choose, is for clarification on what he meant to say on their initial separation.

The reason why this is important is because the man she knew, would never say it out loud. Only the one capable of changing and giving into that love, would ever do such a thing.

And that version of him is Tentoo.

He is human, but most importantly, his duty to the universe is the same as her own. Indirect. The original Time lord self can continue handling things in his absence so he's got nothing stopping him from enjoying a life by her side. One that can either be mundane or filled with adventure, but it will be spent with one another.

The choice was obvious.

(Notice that this is not the first time she is asked to make this choice. The first time being with Mickey, where she seemingly chooses the life of thrills over her relationship with him, over love. Now that she knows what both paths entail, this time she prioritizes love and chooses Tentoo. 

With the growth she underwent throughout her seasons, she realizes that it's not the adventure she wants, it's the Doctor. This is her, finally making the decision that fits this version of herself that understands that love is what she needs)

But it's with this in mind that she questions what the fate of the time lord Doctor would be if she stays. That is why she says "it's still not right, the Doctor is still you."

Because she personally knows what his role entails. She was barely able to handle it on her own with the help of her family, who is to say that he won't crash and burn when he is alone?

The Doctor is not only his name, but his promise to strive for the greater good. In other words, the role he plays for the universe. She doesn't mean that they're not the same man. No, she means to point out that the price of her happiness will come at his expense. 

That the time lord version, no matter what she chooses, will forever be tied to the responsibility of handling the universe.

"And I am him"

With this, Ten assures her that he too, in a way, will get his happy ending. Because by choosing Tentoo, he guarantees that this version of himself, his tenth incarnation, will not suffer the same fate that he will. A new man will not walk away in his shoes, no, this version of himself will spend the rest of his life loving the woman that he was made to love. To have the one adventure he can never have.

It does not come without pain of course. That is why he can’t bare to see the two together, and turns his back on them. Realizing then and there, that there is no longer a place in the life she will live from here on out.

When she kisses Tentoo, it is both a way of imparting that final sense of gratitude to the time lord version of himself (who allowed for this to happen), and it is also to signify the beginning of a new life she will spend with Tentoo. 

Tentoo is the Doctor, he harbors those same desires that the time lord version of himself has. He is human, which grants him the freedom to choose what path he wants and that path is none other than hers.

It would make absolutely no sense to have her resent him or even believe he isn't the Doctor. 

This is the girl who was able to love multiple versions of her father and mother. That through her solo adventures was reminded that at the core of individuals, are traits that remain regardless of their circumstances.

Why would she not love him too?

A detail I love is that when she hears the Tardis dematerialize, her first instinct is to stop and see it go. 

She is not running to stop him, that much is obvious, because she stops long before she even reaches it.

No, she just stands there and looks at it. 

Just like she would have done had she had the chance to see the earth go on her first trip. This is her goodbye, her affirming that he will be remembered and his importance in her life.

That is why Tentoo joins her, silently taking her hand as if to assure her that he is still there.That he understands that this, is her way of saying goodbye to his other self. But don’t fret, it won’t be long before they too will have their own adventures amongst the stars.

That being said, God forbid he finds out that Jackie joined her on her dimension cannon adventures, he would freak lmao

[shannankle]

Color in DFF: Part 2

Okay so here I have a post where I run down some of the way DFF is using color in the past (at least for ep 5-6). But there's even more to unpack in episodes 1-4. I'll have to return to color when more episodes are out cause I'm sure there'll be more clarity and layers to add. But for now let's jump to the present!

Shout out again to @slayerkitty for brainstorming with me!

In part 1 I came to this conclusion:

There are basically 3 groups of colors.

Blue=the friend group, conformity, those trying to harm or coerce others

Red=Non, poverty, outsiders and those with stigma

Yellow=A third category, not in lock step with the group, outliers

So what about the present?!

There's a lot going on with color:

-It show's the character's flaws and desires

-It signals romantic pairing(s)

-It conveys group dynamics and insider/outsider status

On top of that we have people changing colors and exchanging them

Importantly in the present we start getting more than just the strict primary colors groups. Our group is less in sync and now that they've had time to grow up and be apart there's less conformity and cohesion, more fracture. We could argue that more of their own colors are able to come out rather than be subsumed in just blue (though a few characters definitely stick to blue still).

Let's start at the beginning. For a number of these boys their color represents their worse traits and fatal flaws:

Por is in a pale green. This clearly represents his VERY deep relationship with nature (sorry not sorry). It also can represent rebirth which means he isn't dead yet.

Okay, joking aside, green can can represent greed and jealousy. Certainly things relevant to Por who both has it all and still constantly wants and needs more (especially affection from his father) and is willing to take credit from Non to get it. This greed obviously contributed to the way everything spiraled in the past.

Green can also indicate sickness, nausea, and disgust. Por often expresses disgust towards Non, wiping his hand off after touching him. We even get him and Top reacting with disgust in the opening scenes when Fluke is puking.

On one more note, there are cultures that would group green and blue in as the same color so perhaps we can still see him as not so separate from the group as we might think.

Tee and Top are still in blue. These two are dedicated to hiding the truth and protecting themselves. Blue can also indicate loyalty and trust as well as confidence. Tee clearly has an issue with loyalty in both the past and the present. He's quick to throw his friends under the bus but does so while hiding this to still fit in. In the present he struggles with whether to abandon White or protect him. Top on the other hand is over confident, constantly wanting fame and attention.

Tee in particular is interesting because of his tie die shirts. They always mix blue with another color, just like he mixed blue with red in the past. Now it's a pink. Perhaps this means his money troubles have lessened or that he mentally feels less of an outsider or weirdo than when he added red in the past. Or perhaps it shows his strained loyalty to White, containing a color other than blue but not quite orange.

This is certainly the case in a later episode when he changes his t-shirt to blue and orange. I'll mention this later but White is introduced in orange. So Tee's colors show his dedication to the group, his continued attempts to hide secrets that harm people, and his battle between running or staying to protect White.

While Tee switches to orange and blue, Top switches to yellow and white. He makes the switch before he goes off with Tan and returns to kill Por. The yellow is a stark change. Unlike Tee who retains his blue, Top loses it completely. He's in yellow, marking him as an outlier. Is he possessed? Drugged? In any case he is operating without any affinity to the group at this point.

We don't know much about Tan yet, but he's also in blue. He starts in a blue button up and then switches to darker blue with gray underneath. This is a bit odd since he's the most vocal about pushing the old group to reveal what happened in the past. Yet he isn't wearing orange (Phi and White), red (Non), or yellow (outlier). In fact, unlike our other characters he doesn't mix in other colors or change his color at all. It feels very sterile, as if he is operating under different rules. So either he is just part of the group and likely fodder, working with Phi, or up to his own plan. Regardless I think at this point he is probably hiding his color, or rather the show is hiding his color from us for a later reveal of some kind.

Fluke is in purple. It's a balanced mix of blue and red, marking the way he acts as a bystander. He is in the group but not necessarily at the center of it. It also represents ambition, which Fluke clearly has in spades. So much so that as he tries to protect his ambitions, he makes things so much worse.

Interestingly, when Fluke changes clothes he still chooses purple, but his collar has a stripe of red. This of course is what he wears as he starts to crack, ultimately confronting Tee about what happened to Non. The blood on Fluke's hand adds more red.

Jin is in pink and a dark blue or grey. He later switches to a dark blue shirt. So part of him is still attached to the group (blue) but he also operates in a faded pink. Pink can represent love and compassion. We know that Jin acts as the kind one of the group generally. Interestingly this is quite a faded pink, perhaps representing how Jin, despite being kind (or at least having a kind exterior) is quite jaded. He's lost his rose-tinted glasses and they've become a washed out pink.

He no longer is in yellow. Does this mean at some point he failed to push back on the group in an important way? Why is he still with the group and wearing blue/gray colors? Does the fact he's wearing pink, a faded red mean he's still dedicated to Non?

Clown theory: Non was in pink in the preview for episode 7, so does this mark Jin as a romantic pairing with Phi? Does it mean Non died and possessed Jin's body (🤡)?

Phi and White both have orange to start with. They're odd ones out. Interestingly, Phi also has on a denim shirt, making him outwardly seem to match Tee and Top, but the orange shows his true colors. This is very fitting given we know he's up to something (most likely revenge) and not genuinely trying to be a part of the group.

Orange is also partway between red and yellow. If we go by the past, Phi has had something going on with both Non (red) and Jin (yellow, past). Interestingly in this opening shot Phi's backpack moves from blue (his disguised allegiance to the group) to orange (his outsider status) and red (his allegiance to Non). But he is also next to Jin whose pink could be seen as a version of red.

White has orange but like Phi he has blue as well. Does this mean that White is aligned with Phi or is it just a way to signal that White is also a newbie to the group? If so why is Tan not in orange too? Is White Non's brother?

Both Phi and White remove their orange as things progress. Interestingly they both keep the same touches of blue but change to neutral white/light gray tones. They're blending in now, either by force of the situation or in order to hide their intentions. But compared to Tan, we at least see them operating in other colors first.

One last thing of note here. Phi wraps his outer shirt around Jin to brace his shoulder. This completely removes the blue from Phi and gives it to Jin. Is this a color exchange? But blue isn't Phi's color, so does is this an act of protection or is Phi marking Jin as a target?

And what does it mean that Phi is now purely in white--an absence of color? Or is white his color? If so, then what about White?

We've gone from 3 primary colors in the past to a mix of colors in the present. On top of that we have white too, an interesting contrast? pairing? with the black of the mask costume.

Okay this has been equally as much analysis as questions. I'm excited to revisit this when we have even more episodes and information to see what the patterns are here!

[daily-hanamura]

Do you ever think about how Chie (and Yukiko iirc?) have both previously called Yosuke a disappointment, meaning they were, albeit in part, one of the reasons for his low self esteem

Obviously they didn't do it on purpose, since Yosuke always tries to act like those words don't phase him, always acting like he's very confident

But I wonder, if he were to ever open up to them and start showing his more sensitive side in general, how would the girls react? Like would they feel a bit guilty or something?

Many thoughts... many very, very disorganized thoughts......

Oooooh yeah I do indeed think about this, and apart from Chie and Yukiko, Teddie has also described Yosuke as a "prince of disappointment"/"everyone's favourite disappointment"

Yosuke, of course, also being the one that calls himself a disappointment the most.

So this is just my perspective based on my life experience, but I think that to some extent, it very much reflects the kind of humour that was very pervasive around that time. As a millennial it's pretty typical for friends to rib into each other as banter (see also Yosuke to Kanji) and to employ self-deprecation as a joke, and it's kind of a mark of friendship -- you really only do that to people that you're very close friends with, because it's about in-group jokes (e.g. Chie can call Yosuke a disappointment, but that random classmate can't) and a reflection of just how well you know a person.

It's kind of complicated to talk about because I'm not saying that it was necessarily good, since it can be quite insensitive if you're not conscious of someone's personal issues. And some people definitely don't enjoy that sort of humour, because it's also highly, highly contextual and easy to misread. Some bullies also use that as a justification for why they're saying mean things, which is especially unpleasant in the workplace LOL. I feel like as I've gotten older this has become less common? Or maybe I'm just not as comfortable with the friends I've made in adulthood to want to readily rip into them? But then again I have maybe three friends I'm willing to banter like this with and we've been close friends for about a decade, which I think kind of drives home the point I'm making about how this is the kind of joke you only make with people that you've been through a lot with, which the IT are. I think it's humour that's meaningful in the narrative context because it's a signpost that indicates their shared experience in the TV world was no trivial thing, just like how Yosuke calling Yu "aibou" reflects the same sentiment.

But, as you said, because of how Yosuke puts on an act of confidence, I don't think most people pick up on it other than Yu, because Chie, Yukiko and Teddie probably just think it's part of the bit that Yosuke is doing (Yosuke also refuses to show his weaknesses to anyone other than Yu, but that's probably another conversation). One of the weaker spots of P4/G (and P5), I feel, is that it isn't as revealing about the interpersonal relationships between characters outside of the protag character. Which I don't really expect, but it was really nice to see in P3. So all we have to go on is the spin offs, and I think if we compare Chie and Yukiko's distanced friendliness with Yosuke in the Magician manga vs their expression of reliance and dependence on Yosuke in P4AU, for example, we can see that developed dynamic.

Would they feel guilty? Probably, but they're also teenagers who are still figuring out interpersonal interactions and personal boundaries (and this goes for Yosuke as well), and I think this friction is sometimes just part and parcel of growing up. I do think that if Chie and Yukiko realise that Yosuke does have a sore spot about it they'd change the way they speak with him because they genuinely care about him, especially as they mature into adulthood.

Going a little off tangent now and this is just my headcanon, but I also wonder if Yosuke initiated that sort of humour with Chie and Yukiko shortly after their rescue to help them relax. Yosuke likes to use humour to diffuse tension (which doesn't always work) but it's not hard to imagine him sensing awkwardness from the two of them (they really weren't close friends at all prior to the TV world), so he makes himself the butt of a joke to get them to laugh, and when they latch on to it he's actually kind of happy because it means he's done something useful. (ngl ever since I saw Tamami's clown motif stage in p4d I have not stopped thinking about her parallels with Yosuke)

[kitkatopinions]

Gonna do a quick headcount of things that SHOULD happen before the end of RWBY. No I will not be leaving out things that would be consequences for stuff from seasons ago, just because it'd feel awkward and clunky at this point doesn't mean it still isn't important because it never WAS addressed. And also note that some of these are obviously more important than others, but they all still should happen.

Ruby and Blake should have preferably more than one moment focused on building their friendship.

Members of RWBYJNROQ who don't have established dynamics need at least small relationship building such as Qrow and Blake, Ren and Weiss, Weiss and Oscar, etcetera.

What happened with Pietro and Maria in V8 needs addressed.

Someone needs to talk to Pietro about Penny.

Blake and Yang need to have a conversation where Blake opens up about her past, they address what happened when Blake left, and they talk about Yang's hesitancy to be apart.

Blake and Sun need to have a conversation (if only in passing) about her being with Yang and establishing that they're still friends.

Nora and Ren need time apart and then need to figure out where their relationship is going.

Nora needs a strong character arc outside of Ren.

Emerald needs more work done in her redemption and needs to face some of what she's done and the people she should logically be emotional about leaving behind.

We need to establish the fallout of Atlas going down and the logically-must-be-there distrust that would sprout up around Hunters, the Military, etcetera.

We need to know what will happen to the Schnees and how they're adjusting to things.

Consequences of revealing the Maidens and magic to the general public.

Someone outside of Ruby and freaking Jaune should grieve Penny such as Winter and the Ace Ops.

Weiss needs to be concerned with helping and/or connecting with Whitley.

Oscar and Ozpin's merge needs to be addressed and talked about and potentially happen or they need to find a work around.

Team RWBY + J should tell their friends what happened in the Ever After.

We need to address the Ruby stuff in V9, Ruby's recovery cannot be super quick, WBY and Jaune especially should step up and admit their part in it.

We need to address what's been happening in Vale.

We need to find out where the last two Relics are and the group needs to work to protect them from Salem.

We need to get the Relics in Salem's hands out of her hands.

We need to know who the Summer Maiden is.

We need to have the group realize that Raven is the Spring Maiden and address Yang's lie.

God knows I hate when he gets focus, but we need Jaune to deal with what happened to him and specifically give some focus to him reuniting with his team and them reacting to him mentally being like forty.

We need to deal with the whole 'once the Relics are united, the gods will come back and wipe out humanity if it isn’t perfect' thing.

People still need to learn to be sympathetic to Oz and not treat him like an enemy.

We need to learn about and deal with whatever Mercury and Tyrian are doing in Vacuo.

We need to establish what's happening with the Ace Ops and Happy Huntresses.

We need to figure out what's happening with Qrow and deal with how he handled Ruby and Yang supposedly 'dying.'

We need to establish what life is like for the Atlas/Mantle refugees and what Vacuo is doing for them.

We need to establish Theodore as a character and why we the audience should trust or like him.

We still need members of Oz's inner circle to emotionally deal with what happened with Ironwood.

We need characters that should by all rights be a bit more important to get brought back in and be at least a little involved such as Glynda, Taiyang, Ilia, and Sun and Neptune.

We need to know what really happened to Summer and deal with the fallout of whatever it is.

Yang and Ruby need something to heal the rift between them.

We need people to figure out a way to defeat Salem.

We need to have people struggling to get people together to fight Salem and deal with possible conflicts surrounding that (considering the fact that having an army was considered a sign of pure evil when it was Ironwood)

We need to defeat Salem.

If CRWBY intends to bring in the Crown from the ATF/BTD books, they need to be established and dealt with as well.

This is all just off the top of my head! Yes, some of these things seem like they're going to be (badly) addressed in passing from the little promo that was originally supposed to end V9, but we don’t know how much of that will change and I personally am unsatisfied with almost everything in it and still think we need further exploring for all that stuff. (And no, I'm not considering Justice League or RWBY Beyond to be good enough if the main series doesn't make sense or have emotional payoff.)

My point here is... There is so much left to do in RWBY (arguably that should've been done AGES ago,) that I'm having a really hard believing much of it will be done. And I fear that whatever they do try to deal with will just be jam packed into the next season at the speed of light with no real payoff and it'll wind up badly done or unsatisfying because of it. Especially if they try to introduce loads more in V10 the way they did in V9.

RWBY is for sure the show with good concepts, because while I was writing out that list, I was sitting here thinking about how some of it could be pretty good and impactful in the hands of good writers. But it's also the show of no emotional payoff, and I seriously doubt that this next season is gonna deliver.

[orlandoblumhouseofguccimane]

Bi-Han thought:

Most people see Bi-Hans resentment for his father and headcanon that his father was very strict with Bi-Han particularly. Hence his lack of willingness to hear a spiel about honor and his dad’s morals.

But personally, my headcanon is that his father is an adamant and tough leader (in order for the Lin Kuei to be as discliplined as they are) but I think he’d have to be particularly fair, kind and inspiring for everybody but especially his own children (Kuai and Tomas) to cherish and value his every word and belief.

Also Bi-Han hates his father’s dynamic with Liu Kang which makes me think he was like Jerrod.

Another headcanon I have is that the trio’s mother was also kind and nurturing but particularly protective and ambitious. Passionate where their father was level headed.

I envision one night, Bi-Han as a kid over hearing a “not-argument” between his parents where his mother expresses some frustration at the state of the world and her feeling like they’re being limited by Liu Kang. Not even that she has a real problem with Liu Kang but she doesn’t understand why the Lin Kuei only protects earthrealm from other realms and doesn’t help earth with their domestic issues when she feels her husband has the power and honor to do so. I think such a conversation where Bi-Han hears his fathers dismiss his mother frustrations, in favor of remaining hidden and not concerning himself with responsibilities outside of the Lin Kuei and Liu Kang and not sharing what makes the Lin Kuei great with the world, and his mother’s obvious disagreement would stick with him. And is probably why he believes his mother would approve of the direction Bi-Han is taking the Lin Kuei.

And is why there’s a disconnect in how the brothers believe their mom would react. Kuai Liang and Tomas remembering the kind nurturing woman who wants to help and protect people and Bi-Han, who remembers the ambitious woman who believed the Lin Kuei’s greatness deserved to be exalted by the world.

I think Bi-Han’s a mamas boy, not because he think his dad was an asshole, but because he thinks he was too cowardly and soft for his strong mother.

[lexosaurus]

Hey, Lexx! Fic authors self rec! When you get this, reply with your favorite five fics that you've written, then pass on to at least five other writers. Let’s spread the self-love 💜

LEXIE THIS IS SO CUTE!

Okay I couldn't narrow it down so I'm adding a 6th fic akjnsdfksjnd. So here's my top 6 fics with some commentary because I'm extra af:

1: Everything Was White: After being accidentally revealed to the public and taken away by the government, Danny deals with the aftermath of his time with the GIW.

Yeah, this won't come as a surprise to many. This VERY angsty longfic sorta marked a turning point for me where I started taking writing more seriously, really looking at plot structures, doing research, interacting with other writers. I went into this with "I'll just do a twoshot cuz I suck and I'm not capable of writing much more," and seeing how far I've come in skill and confidence has honestly kept me totally enamored with this fic. I love that I can see my improvement as the fic's gone on. I've gone back and cleaned up the early chapters, and I can still see a distinct difference. Makes me very happy!

2: Morge: It was a beautiful day outside. The birds were singing, the flowers were blooming...a corpse was found in the woods.

This was my first Invisobang fic and also my first (and only? so far?) Outsider POV fic. I loved exploring the perspectives of Amity Park and Phantom from somewhat regular people who don't know much about ghosts. And, of course, writing Danny slowly losing it as the fic went on was a great bonus!

3: Transformation Troubles: A hit from one of Skulker's weapons leaves Danny temporarily unable to transform out of his ghost form. Unfortunately for him, he still has classes to attend.

This fic is just a vibe, honestly. It's a "guilty pleasure" category of DP fics that are few and far between (glitching powers, still has to go to class) but I absolutely inhale any chance I get to read one. College AU, post-reveal MY BELOVED real tea y'all. This basically came from me wanting a niche thing and going, "Fine, I'll write it myself!!"

4: and then he woke up: In his dreams, he woke up in his cell again.

This oneshot is similar to EWW where it's my take on what a realistic GIW recovery might look like. Aka, Danny Has A Bad Time. It's a very sad hurt/comfort fic, but I think it also represents a "level up" in my descriptions and pacing that I've been trying to employ more in recent fics.

5: Black and White Roses: When he died, he didn't get a memorial service. He didn't get the vigil, the flowers, the headstone. In fact, no one even found his body.

Dude idk man I just really love Valerie and Phantom's dynamic. Also, thought it'd be really interesting to write a full ghost AU fic, which it was, because as I was writing it I realized like hey, he'd have a corpse, and corpses are kinda freaky aren't they? Like how would you react if ur ghost friend was like "Hey yeah my corpse is over there." That'd be fucking nuts.

6: Birthmark: “No, it’s…” He trailed off, rubbing a hand over his face. His eyebrows were pinched and he looked almost sick. When he finally spoke, his voice was small. “They’re not tattoos.”

Lichtenberg HC my beloveddddd seriously I love it so much I am SO normal about it. That and Phantom and Valerie becoming friends fics. Literally so fucking normal guys. Just trust me bro.

Yeah 5 and 6 are so similar so I couldn't pick between them hahaha. But this is my current top fave fics!

I'm also REALLY excited to release all the stuff that I've been working on the past year this fall. Not tryna gas myself up here but I've been sitting on so much stuff since last NaNo and I'm just ahhhhh!

[professoruber]

Marceline and the Founders

Quick thought I've been thinking of recently (since I've been getting back into Adventure Time as of late due to Fionna & Cake) but I wonder if the humans of the Island ever discovered Marceline's connection to the Founders and what the consequences of that might be.

Marceline knew the founders as actual people rather than the deity-like figures which Island propaganda appeared to portray them as. So her insight could very much go against some very fundamental tenants of official Island history.

Of course, the very fact that the humans of the Islands have returned to Ooo could indicate they no longer take "Founder's Truth" to be the gospel in regards to running their society. Or perhaps they tried to rationalise it.

I have seen some discussion on reddit before regarding how aware the Islands are of Marceline's existence. Personally I feel she likely has a limited by important place the "mythos' of the Founders. The fact she was turned into a vampire and so parted ways with the Founders before they actually founded Founder's Island probably meant she's not as prominent as other Founders like Two Bread Tom who would've taken a much larger leadership roll in early settlement of the Island.

However, while her time with the Founders may have been relatively short (Jo, aka the girl with the bunny hat, didn't physically grow up much between the time Marceline first met her and when she fought the Vampire King), she did still appear to have grown quite close to them. And I do feel they likely would have honoured her sacrifice in fighting the Vampire King so they could escape the mainland.

I do think that others are correct though that her half-demon nature is likely unknown by modern humans, both due to details being lost in time and also because a friendly non-human (well non-complete-human) would go against the propaganda of "everything outside the Islands is out to get Humanity so we can't leave" stuff. Personally I have also had the thought she could be considered the predecessor to the Guardian, since that was basically her role in their group. Although for the purpose of propaganda, her effectiveness as a guardian may also have been played done and/or her sacrifice got the most focus.

So perhaps the humans of the islands just recall "Founder Marceline" as someone who sacrificed her life for the other Founders, a haunting example of why humanity must never leave the safety of the islands or stray from the Founder's Truth...

Of course, given the aforementioned deity-like status of the Founders, that does make me kinda curious of how the Islanders would react to learning that one of the Founders is still around. Certainly wouldn't be the only time Marceline's gets canonised by a saint by folks she helped saved....

Could also definitely be interesting to see what Marceline's on reaction might be to learning of the ultimate fate of that band of survivors she once was a part of, and also how she went down in history.

Perhaps the humans of the Islands might try seeking our Marceline for wisdom and leadership if they knew, given the importance of the "Founder's Truth" as being treated as infallible for so long, old habits die hard after all. Maybe might lead to a dynamic akin to this...

In all seriousness though; someone like Marceline, who they can trust more or less, probably would be beneficial in helping humans re-establish themselves in Ooo after being absent for so long.

[lurkingshan]

La Pluie and the subversion of second lead syndrome

We know now that La Pluie is interested in using classic romance tropes, but in a way that twists or outright subverts them. We’ve already had a lot of discussion about the way the show is subverting the typical soulmate story by making the soulmate bond the main obstacle to the romance. And after this week’s episode, I think there’s another major subversion going on here: they are not in fact doing a love triangle with Tai, Patts, and Lomfon, and are instead subverting the usual dynamics that inspire second lead syndrome.

I touched on this briefly in my first post yesterday, but I want to expand on it a bit here. Coming out of last week’s episode, most of the audience (myself included) were braced for this week to focus on Lomfon’s pursuit of Tai, which would inspire some kind of face off between him and Patts, and push Tai into finally making a firm decision about his relationship. But that’s not what happened at all. Instead, this episode had the vibe of Tai and Patts continuing to act out their swoony romance while Lomfon impotently lobbed rotten fruit from the peanut gallery.

In this episode, Lomfon was a non-factor in Tai’s ongoing relationship development with Patts. Tai barely noticed his presence, didn’t react to any of his rude comments mocking soulmates, and essentially just continued focusing on his feelings for Patts and his ongoing internal conflict, wholly unbothered by anything Lomfon was saying or doing. Bow had to once again step in and tell him what was going on and try to convince him that Lomfon’s attentions are something he should be worried about. We saw Tai smile warmly at Lomfon a couple times, but if you paid attention, you’ll note he did the same to everyone he met at the camp. His most engaged interaction outside of Patts was actually with Nara, who he smiled at in just the same way, and we know there’s no attraction there. I think the show has been misdirecting us a bit by lingering on Tai’s glances at Lomfon as if they are meaningful, when in fact Tai is not considering Lomfon as a romantic partner at all.

This is also borne out in the way other characters react to Lomfon. Patts clocks his interest in Tai right away, but there’s no indication that he feels threatened by it. He is confident that he has Tai’s attention and interest and he focuses his energy on trying to strengthen the trust between them rather than trying to fend off competitors. Tien does confront Lomfon, but notice that his ire is about Lomfon’s attempts to interfere as an outsider, not about any response he is actually getting from Tai. Tien saw the happiness radiating on his brother’s face when he introduced Patts, and that’s why he is so protective. Tien is not concerned that Tai actually likes Lomfon back, he simply does not want anyone messing with Tai now that he’s finally starting to let himself be happy.

So if no one is actually concerned about Lomfon’s designs on Tai, where is the show going with his story? Well, we got some interesting information this episode that I think sheds light on that. It turns out, Lomfon’s skepticism about destiny is not as clear cut as he has previously claimed. Like most people, his beliefs are self-serving: hearing loss soulmates are bullshit because he doesn’t have one, but he counts someone he’s never actually met as his “first love”and believes he is destined to be with them. He seems to think Tai is the owner of that keychain, which is why he feels some claim over him and wants to reject the soulmate myth.

But as he is starting to see, if not yet accept, the myth is not the reason Tai and Patts are drawn to each other. If he met Tai before Patts was in the picture, it’s possible he might have had a shot (though still not assured, Tai really does seem to think of him primarily as his little brother’s friend). But now that Tai has met Patts he’s not interested in considering anyone else. And of course, even as he stubbornly clings to the idea of Tai as his fated person, Lomfon is growing closer to Tien and clearly developing feelings for him he is not yet aware of. Might the show have him conclude that the keychain was meant to lead him to Tien all along? Or perhaps he’ll realize that none of that destiny stuff matters because what he has with Tien is more real and substantial than his fantasies about Tai, and Lomfon’s story is all about him coming to realize that for himself without any major drama around him trying to interfere with Tai and Patts.

Once again, I believe the show is intentionally playing with classic romance tropes to take them in unexpected directions. They used our expectations around love triangles and second leads to guide us toward one understanding of Lomfon and his story, and to inspire in some of the audience a classic case of second lead syndrome, but are now veering off into a more interesting, more nuanced, less clichéd path that will actually land Lomfon in a much better place than we typically see for second leads. I think they’ll do the same with the classic trope we saw at the end of this episode - Tai’s reaction to seeing Nara kiss Patts won’t play out in the expected way.

Personally I am loving it every time this show zigs when I expect it to zag. It’s keeping me on my toes and really underscoring for me how years of drama viewing has conditioned me to respond to tropes. Keep fucking with me, La Pluie, I’m having a grand old time!

(Tagging @scarefox and @ginnymoonbeam who I cited here plus friends @wen-kexing-apologist @bengiyo and @kyr-kun-chan who have been talking through these eps with me.)

[eerna]

ok so its been a couple weeks how do u feel about totk zelink now

(context: here is part 1 of the ask, and also SPOILERS AHEAD!)

For reference, I am currently done with the dragon tears and sages questlines, but still haven't finished the Kogha one. Whatever happens after this point, I have no idea, I'm chilling and doing side quests and leveling up.

There is a difficult line to draw between "this is what the game is saying" and "this is what I am projecting onto it", but to me, this game is about how well Link knows Zelda. BotW was about trying to remember her and why she mattered, and TotK is about trying to figure out her plans and what she was trying to tell you, as she is no longer able to guide you the way she did in BotW. It's listening to what people are saying about her and deciding if it sounds like Zelda or not. It is beautiful, and shows how close the two of them are now! BUT. It would have worked even better if we saw traces of their relationship in the plot. This is a three-pronged feature: 1) In the main quest everyone calls Link "Zelda's swordsman" or "Zelda's chosen protector" and are surprised when they see him without her, but the NPCs STILL don't mention him. The way I almost screamed when I stumbled upon that Lurelin NPC who is like "oh yeah the princess would disguise herself and go on vacation and hike up to the Lover's Pond at sunset!" and I was READY to hear about the person accompanying her. But there was no one. Zelda was alone as far as this guy was concerned. Like pls. 2) Link should have revealed his thoughts on the mystery of Zelda's identity for this theme to work, at least by being the one to figure out the Zelda prancing around Hyrule is an impostor. In fact, the way they didn't try to incorporate the tears quest into the main storyline is pretty disappointing - sorry but Link would NOT just ignore knowing where Zelda is. They should have hidden the last few memories until you're done with the fifth temple to make sure he doesn't look like an idiot. 3) We are STILL in the "Link doesn't react properly to Zelda" era. I'm not even talking about animation, I would have settled for a "Don't look so concerned, we will figure it out!" or a "I know you wish to bring her back right away, but leave the research to me and focus on beating Ganon first!" from Impa at the end of the tears quest. Sure, I choose to interpret his mad dash through Hyrule Castle to get to the sanctum Ganon fight as him completely forgetting any caution or reason in his desperation to get to her, but is that really it? EVERYONE ELSE cares so so much about Zelda as a person instead of a princess, they are constantly talking about her, so Link could have gotten some moments of that too. I'm glad the game stated that Link's duty ended with the Calamity and he CHOSE to stay with Zelda, so it's not that he only cares because he has to, but I wish it was shown outside that one line in a secret diary.

In conclusion, I still stand by my previous claim: Skyward Sword did this same dynamic better, so if I hadn't played that game I might have been elated over this one, but alas. I am still hoping for an earth-shattering emotional moment towards the end of the game that is gonna render all my complaints wrong, I haven't lost hope, but wow my imagination is working overtime to keep me happy

[hopenight]

Let’s Talk About Velora, Vax, and Vex

One relationship that has always low-key fascinated me (and simultaneously warmed my cold dead heart) is that between Vex and Vax and their half-sister, Velora. 

It’s not a relationship that is really explored in much depth in the campaign proper. She appears for like 15 minutes of game time, is generally adorable, and the twins know about her and have a relationship with her. One that is very warm and some sort of balance between like sibling and vaguely paternal. It’s that weird sort of dynamic that happens when you’re so much older than your sibling. 

But it’s very sweet. And then she shows up in the final episodes of the campaign because why not twist that knife in a little more? But she’s not mentioned much outside of those instances. 

Even so, I think the dynamic between the three of them and this includes the Legend of Vox Machina is still really fascinating and, again, extremely heartwarming along with saying a lot about the twins’ character in that while they aren’t nice people, they are kind people. 

In the campaign, the twins are interested in seeing Velora. In fact, they are genuinely happy to see her. Vex picks her up and puts her on her lap. They tell her about how Scanlan takes magic blue shits. Vex gives her an owlbear feather to match her plushie. And at some point previously, they gave her some sort of special necklace. 

Velora is so excited to see them both. And it’s clear that she’s not a “proper” elven girl. Or what we would image them to be. Matt calls her a bit of a tomboy and Vax encourages her to “keep scraping up those knees”. She’s mischievous and listens to what they have to say.

And it’s clear that however shitty a father Syldor was to the pair of them, and he was a shitty father, that any animosity toward him is never put on Velora. And, yeah, you should never hold the sins of a parent against the child, but given how much Syldor shit on their beloved mother? A little resentment wouldn’t have been out of line for the plot.

But no, in the first campaign, they adore Velora and probably consider her the only good part of their father. 

Something to keep in mind, however, is that in the first campaign, they’ve known of her for awhile. They’re re-meeting her. 

In The Legend Of Vox Machina, it’s changed into a first meeting. We see how the twins react to their sister upon first meeting her. And their immediate reaction is one of utter love. Vex gives her her iconic feather. Vax says that never meeting her would be “a travesty”. 

In the show, in particular, they really build up how Vex wanted her father’s approval. And here’s a little girl who has what she always wanted, her father’s love. But not even for a second does she get upset with Velora for that. It’s her little sister, why would she?

And it even shows that, again, while the problem is clearly Syldor, it never went to the other people in the household. Vax and Vex great their stepmother warmly and seem to have a good relationship with her. 

Ultimately, it shows that the twins are kind characters over nice characters. And what I mean is that they don’t much care for manners or social niceties outside the moments where they have to do those things. But, when it comes down to them, they have a lot of empathy and kindness and want to have relationships with others.

In contrast, Syldor is presumably a “nice” character. By “nice”, I mean he does the social niceties that is expected of him, but without any understanding or deeper level of emotion behind them. And it leaves him looking cold and callous as a result.

I don’t know. I just think that the twins relationship with Velora is neat and would like to see more of it.

[minggukieology]

Hi, firstly thanks a lot for the beautiful blog. Always enjoy reading your posts that specially help when you clear things about the translation.

You probably know how are things on the bird app. One of the very common trend among the i-side is calling every Convo as flirting. While even the English translation doesn't convey such a felling but still people call it flirting. The cultural gap between the i-side and the k side isn't helping either. I follow many people from the k-side and they usually never go crazy over any Convo but those between KM. So what I would like to ask you is to please if possible compare a convo between KM and one between KM with other members and explain the differences to show which one is called flirting in Korean culture and language. I myself don't understand why people react like that. So would be amazing if you do that favor for us and elaborate on it. Thank you so much.

Hello and thanks for your message.

It has been sitting in my inbox for quite a few days now as you probably noticed, mostly due to my busy schedule but also because I wasn't really sure how to formulate my answer to this.

It is difficult for me to pinpoint one KM conversation and then find a parallel to that one with other members because:

1.

A lot of times these interactions heavily rely on the context. We know the different dynamics between the members that also translate into how they talk to each other and therefore we know how to "understand" their conversations. But to at least try and give some sort of example, we can take the Weverse interactions between Jimin and Hobi on his bday- on the outside it might have looked like they were flirting, because Jimin literally wrote "섹시하네" | "(you're) sexy" with a zoomed in pic of his eye (look) but we very well know this is how Jimin and Hobi joke around with each other and there's no explicit meaning whatsoever. I dare to say Korean fans know and understand the dynamics better, because 90% of times a lot of meaning/undertone/implication gets lost in translation and a simple screenshot of a translation cannot give the full context and the full explanation of how and what was said. That is how, I presume, everything ends up being considered as "flirting" (but I think it's also just a type of internet joke within the online community so it is not necessarily to be taken seriously)

2.

Other than that, to showcase what Korean fans consider 'flirting' would also require me to start explaining Korean sentence structures, formation of sentences, the context of their usage etc. Please understand it is difficult for me to go that much in depth as I am also limited on time and don't have enough free space to research the best possible example and write down a full explanation to it. (But if you would really like one, you are more than welcome to send me a concrete example of an interaction, preferably with links or reference material and I will try to reply with an explanation).

What I would say just in general, in Korean there are various ways to show the level of engagement/understanding/agreement/disagreement/implication/etc. with the way you set up the sentence and what words you choose and how you say them. So what happens in KM interactions is that a lot of times they show a great amount of care, understanding and attention with the way they communicate and respond to each other. It's about tiny details and nuance that, as I said before, often gets lost in translations.

I am sorry I couldn't provide a more specific answer. I wish I had more time but as my life progresses, I find myself online less and less. Therefore, the amount of time I am able to allocate to each message is also limited and I ask for your understanding.

[boozye]

I am a little curious about your thoughts on the relationship between Satan and Lucifer, considering they're a top two and have a strained dynamic! Feel like spilling?

I have just some thoughts.

Satan. Yeah he is calm, but if anything I'm the living testament that you can live out of spite and people can still think you are pretty chill (yes I may be projecting). And so, he is just so full of spite. Sure, noone asks to be born, but at least the rest of his brothers were made intentionally by The Creator™️. HE WAS A FUCKING ACCIDENT, HE WAS BORN OUT OF SCORN, DISAPPOINTMENT, FEAR, RAGE AND BITTERNESS. He is the residue of the war.

He is what's left.

And he knows this. Personally I shake my head whenever people imply Satan made any mental growth only thanks to MC. If anything, he is the only one who made any mental growth in the whole family before that. He chose who and how he was going to be, and did it. He is damn certain he is an individual outside of Lucifer's identity long before the idiot sheep arrives. By the time the program starts he has already separated himself from the origins of his birth, he is already in the process of being someone outside of that (it's others perception of it that bothers him). He's a socialite, he reads to have the power of knowledge. A power that he acquires by himself, outside of his family status. Think about it. Yeah, Lucifer is knowledgeable, but that's just something innate of him apparently, none of his other brothers seem that interested in academic knowledge.

And Lucifer... he was not fit as a parent figure, only as a brother. A brother who was recovering from one of the greatest injuries of his life. And who had to deal with 5 other wounded people, who looked to him for guidance.

They deserved better. Everyone deserved better.

Do you know, a big part of overcoming generational trauma sometimes is having enough self love to be mad? Because at the begining is normal to just feel miserable, and that you deserve everything that's been done to you. But as you recover and recognize what happened, some people react with rage. And it is righteous. Rage because you finally respect yourself enough to stand up for yourself. Rage because you realize you deserved better, and that you didn't deserve that harm, nor did your siblings. Rage at the injustice the very person who claims themelves "just" commited. The same being who deemed themselves fit to bring you upon existence, can just decide to take it all away. Can just decide to execute your sister. Rage rage rage, aimed directly at the center of your life. This is the rage I think Satan was born out of. Not the rage fueled by the adrenaline of a battle cry, not even for the aesthetic of some shallow bloodlust, no. Rage against their creator himself. Pure, righteous, certain, and insatiable.

And I think that specific sort of rage is relevant to who Lucifer and Satan are, and their relationship. Lucifer is still coming to terms with the fact that he felt an emotion that was probably ingrained into him as "wrong" during his time as an angel. To such a degree. And his time in the Devildom has let him feel more freely. Keep in mind that at the same time were, presumably, Satan's most formative years. I would not be surprised if not just Lucifer, but Satan also had had to do some of the comforting the rest of his hurt family.

[amusingmusie]

Hello Musie! I hope you are doing well on this out of touch Thursday. Would you be comfortable with sharing what inspired you to begin writing? Do you have a muse of your own that inspires the way you build dynamics between your characters? I was curious if you had anything that you had outside of source material (ie Hazbin) that helped motivate you?

I've always loved to write, but always burned myself out before the ideas manifested into something more substantial than daydreams. You have inspired me to at least focus that energy into comments and questions! I just wanted to say that you have a fresh approach to building meaningful conflict between characters and developing background YT. You've got me researching New Orleans history so I can further the immersion as I read! I still cannot get over how fleshed out Nel is. I can absolutely go on, but yeah!

Thanks a million :)

Hello! Sorry I answered this so late (it's Monday for me whoops!). I can't lie, I got really excited to answer this so I can nerd the hell out and YAP PROFUSELY.

What inspired me to write- With every single piece of media consume, I immediately (and I mean immediately) begin to construct some kind of OC to throw into that universe, and Nel was no exception! I got very attached to human Alastor since one of my favorite things about Hazbin is the tradegy of the human lives the characters lived, and Alastor's death in particular seemed incredibly tragic (but deserved) that I ended up fixating on it. I think something I asked myself was "Goddamn, I wonder how people who knew him reacted to his end?". That, combined with how much I loved Al's dynamic with Husk/Vaggie (the sterner characters) birthed Nel pretty quickly after I watched the pilot.

I NEVER thought I'd post a fic. Like ever. I did not think I could do it. I've been writing for myself for years and I would write on the job (I was doing secretary work at the time), so this story slowly started building and building until I had the whole thing drafted. It wasn't going to be posted until I started casually going through the Al/reader tag and saw that there was BARELY any human Alastor. And I sorta thought weeeellll I guess I gotta be the change I wish to see, I've got the whole thing drafted, why not? I'll see how long I stick with it. The fandom was super dead at the time, so I figured my fic wouldn't be exposed to a lot of people anyway, so why not?

Then you insane (/pos) people got invested in my silly shit and I am still in fucking awe that everyone is so supportive!

As for other muses (heehee) that give me inspiration- READ DEAD REDEMPTION 2. I love the RDR series, I am obsessed with it, and I think the storytelling is so beautiful. The setting gave me a small amount of inspiration (the wilderness and the country, rugged characters) but mostly the impact of the story and writing has had a lot of influence on my creativity if that makes sense? The dialogue feels insanely natural, they use old-timey slang without it dominating the conversations, and the story flows deliciously. Like, the game has had a huge impact on my life and I think if I had half the effect on you guys with my fic as that had on me, I could die somewhat happily.

And finally, I'm glad my work has a bit of a motivator for you! I'm not the best at giving advice to get motivated to start writing (I live in hyperfixation hell), but what I can say is that when something sticks, nurture it :) Try writing for yourself and see what feels right first. You never know what it can turn into!