#nettles and daemon

[kataraavatara]

i hate, hate, HATE when nettles “fans” say something along of “omg nettles got Daemon to leave his Valyrian wife for her 💅she’s just that girl” because IF (and I mean IF, because Daemon + Nettles is a highly contested claim within the text, so stop treating it as fact) IF Daemon and Nettles were together, this makes Nettles a victim, not some kind of girlboss. She is a teenager and he is an adult. “Haha she was so much better he left Rhaenyra for her” that is a tragedy, not a flex. How are you a “fan” of her character if you are cheering on something bad happening to her? The answer is you’re not, plain and simple. You do not care about her!!

[ride-thedragon]

Why Nettles is so Pyramids by Frank Ocean Coded.

Now that I'm officially back, I've decided to prove myself and my love for this character by using one of my favourite artists, Frank Ocean.

@bohemian-nights is one of my oldest mutuals and seems like the best person to tag for this wild ride. Also, we had an interaction about it once.

Before I begin, I'm gonna put a great video analysis of this song because you all should listen to it.

Now let's get started.

What is Pyramids by Frank Ocean?

It's basically a nine minute story like song that focuses on a 'Cleopatra' like figure in two different time periods. One as the original 'jewel of Africa" being stolen from a Pharaoh by a man promising her the future and one as a sex worker working at "The Pyramids" to live day by day. She remains a mystery throughout the entire song as we are told about her through the experience and expectation of her by different Narrator's, a servant, the Pharaoh, her love interest/ the thief, A pimp that sleeps with Cleopatra and her unemployed boyfriend.

All that aside, go listen to the song. It's one of if not Frank's best and it's an experience the first time for sure.

Swiftly moving on,

NETTLES AS PYRAMIDS

Okay, the breakdown was important because I'm gonna break it down similarly to reflect Nettles.

ACT 1

PART I

Think of this as a reflective part of the story. A summarization of what's to come in the story.

"Set the cheetahs on the loose" is equitable to the death decree on Nettles.

"There's a thief out on the move" reflects both Sheepstealer and Daemon.

"Underneath our legions view" both Rhaenyra and the Mootons who are sworn to her. Daemon is also directly beneath Rhaenyra.

"They have taken Cleopatra" in the song you learn that Cleopatra goes willingly, but from this perspective, she is taken, similar to the accusations against Nettles with both Daemon and Sheepstealer.

"Run, Run, Run, come back for my glory" is Rhaenyra saying that she needs Daemon back at her side but also an allusion to the idea that Nettles might not be a dragonseed, and is a question to the legitimacy of Targaryen Exceptionalism.

"Bring her back to Me" the decree call for Nettles head but also the idea that Daemon would be free after her death.

"Run, Run, Run, the crown of our Pharaoh/ The throne of our queen is empty." Daemon does take the place of a "queen consort" during the dance with the added title of protector of the realm. It's important to note that the dance was a war to see who would sit the iron throne, and with that in mind, Rhaenyra is being challenged, with her crown being challenged, Daemon is also not there, leaving the throne empty.

The repetition of Cleopatra takes different meaning to what's missing.

PART II

The first 2 lines are in reference to Alyn and Addam of Hull as the bastards of Corlys and who are now black in the series. All three of them (even Alyn) are now viewed as precious things in the 'future' as recognised dragonseeds and riders. Later on, their loyalties and position in this new place are also questioned "in a rocky world."

"Our skin like bronze and hair like cashmere" in reference to the new matched appearances of the Driftmark dragonseeds to house Velayron as all are played by black actors (allegedly).

The rest of the verse is dedicated to the "Fall of King's Landing," where Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen ascends the throne notably with the Dragonseeds flying and ensuring no challenge to her reign as soldiers in the war.

Daemon Targaryen famously takes Nettles to Maidenpool "underneath our legions view, they have taken Cleopatra" to put a stop to the burning of the Riverlands. The thief in question is still Nettles as she is accused of enchanting the prince.

PART III

Now, this time, the refrain is a set up to the prompt given to us by Mysaria, "Even now, she shares your husband's bed, and soon enough she'll have his bastard in her belly."

The jewel of Africa, however, refers to the decree where Rhaenyra says Nettles used spells to bind a dragon to her. "What good is a jewel that ain't still precious?" is a constant question throughout fire and blood and with the Targaryens who were very selective with who got a dragon up until the reign of Viserys. The idea that only Targaryens can control dragons leads to their power and without that illusion, it is questioned. Nettles is proposed as an active threat to this in the narrative.

"How could you run off on me? How can you run off on us?" is Rhaenyra in both reference to Nettles, alluding to the betrayal she thinks that has occurred and Daemon, with their marriage and rule over the kingdom. Her decree specifically wished for his return.

"You feel like God inside that gold

I found you laying down with Sampson and his full head of hair."

Daemon gets Nettles gifts and clothes to wear during their time in Maidenpool. He dresses her differently and seemingly spends all his time at her side. There isn't a mundane activity described that he doesn't spend with her.

Mysaria, Rhaenyra, and the Mootons agree to the idea that she was near or in his bed. The only reason the decree isn't followed is because the Mootons fear the wrath of Daemon, similar to Sampson and Delilah, where his weakness seems to be nothing until they learn about his hair, they fear him until that point. Unlike Delilah, Nettles is only accused of harming Daemon and is ultimately protected by Daemon's legacy, "6 men or 60 men, he's still Daemon Targaryen."

The Black Queen is Rhaenyra in this instance with bad dreams being the decree and the potential barm thar is wished on Nettles by her. This part is from the perspective of Daemon.

Part IV (ACT 1)

At the end of their story, Nettles is sent away for her protection by Daemon, who then decides to fight Aemond Targaryen, alone, an established suicide mission in the narrative. Aegon can also be the referenced "he" who killed Cleopatra

Later on, Rhaenyra is killed by her brother Aegon and his dragon Sunfyre. Theories surrounding alternate timeliness where Daemon went back often end with Rhaenyra surviving the dance at his side.

The serpent in her tomb can be Mysaria, who led Rhaenyra down the path of destruction against the advice of more trusted advisors like Corlys. Cleopatra historically died with a snake bite.

ACT 2

Part 1.

Perspective change.

Daemon Targaryen spends all his time with Nettles. They eat, bathe, sleep, and fly together each day, returning to Maidenpool, where this behaviour is documented by the Maester.

Their dynamic is consistent with the Mootons where they fly and track Aemond, returning to Maidenpool to defend the Mootons in exchange for hosting them. She is, in fact, working.

The song alludes to Cleopatra in the future being pimped out, seen through the perspective of either a pimp or client alluding to her boyfriend.

This perspective could also be taken by the Maester recording these interactions between the prince and Nettles, watching her, and hearing of their activities through the maids, recording it.

Part II

This part is only given to Daemon Targaryen.

The baths they took were described in the narrative as such,

"Soaping her back or washing the dragon stink from her hair, both of them as naked as their namedays."

Now the idea that they were actually sleeping together in light of this information is an easy conclusion to come to which informs the rest of the verse until, "ride, cowgirl".

Her love in the narrative is no longer free because men can pay to sleep with Cleopatra, and a shared love within the relationship is now a job for her but still a way to connect for him.

Within the fire and blood narrative, however, Nettles love is no longer free because of the danger of the mission they embark on every day. If they meet Aemond on the route, she can lose her life in the fight in exchange for being housed in Maidenpool, a transaction to continue this illicit relationship away from the eyes of the court. Her love was also always a danger as she is an unknown mistress of the Prince Consort of the Realm, a risky position at any time but especially during war with the threat of heirs and the grief and wrath Rhaenyra experienced during this time.

ACT II (Part 3)

In the end, Nettles gets away. The singers say Daemon finds her, and they live out their days in the Mountain of the Moon, in the Vale of Arryn where she is alleged to be the fire Witch the burned men worship. She's working at the pyramids (buildings often constructed as tombs for old rulers to ascend from and live on through).

[theflorasdiary]

The problem with this show are not the characters or how the episodes are made,but the writers that decided to develop a literal masterpiece into a circus.

The campaign for season two literally started with making the audience choose between team black and team green:we had two trailers,two official posters and even the actors were “divided” to promote their teams.

So they basically told us to pick a side since the beginning.

Then they procede to turn team black in the saint team:making them the victims of the patriarchy,the heroes of the story.They showed us team black as if they are more Targaryen then the other team only because they know a prophecy and use this fact to excuse them from anything they do.

They made team black loved and worshiped by the small folks after Rhaenys killed hundreds of them during her dumb and useless girl boss scene and after Rhaenyra starved them.When in the book the small folks hates Rhaenyra and her incompetence,they will literally kick her out of the city and she has to run away or they will kill her just like they did with the dragons.The small folks instead loved team green,they loved Helaena as their queen and blamed and hated Rhaenyra for her death.

They forced use to like Rhaenyra just because she is one of the main characters,pushing on her the role of strong female character that is fighting a male society and then again just because she is a woman she is excused for everything that she does.We had to sit and watch two scenes of her giving birth and two of her weddings because we needed to empathize with her.We need to see her on her dragon constantly so that we can see Daenerys resemblance.They had to make her a saint,of course she wouldn’t want to kill a child she is too good,she would never hurt Helaena,everyone is loyal to her and she can do no wrong.They even took down Nettles to not show us Rhaenyra racism and the way she wanted to have a little girl killed because her pedo uncle-husband was rumored to be her lover.

On the other side we have team green that was completely dehumanized,stripped down of every good aspects they had in the book,changing and canceling everything.

We had never saw Alicent give birth to children that came to her out of marital rapes,we also did not see her getting married as a child bride to a man that will abuse her.Apparently the love of her life is Rhaenyra instead that her own children,she betrays them and her own side of the family in favor of her ex best friend that didn’t do anything to help her in the past and instead laughed in her face about her trauma.They keep telling that Alicent has never sacrificed anything when she has sacrificed her all life for duty and family unlike Rhaenyra.

Healena is totally marginal as the “weird bug girl” that just rants things out.She was a dragon rider that enjoyed being with her dragon Dreamfyre,yet in the show apparently she doesn’t like that.Even her dragon legacy was taken by team black,because now Dany dragon eggs comes from Syrax.In Viserys last days Helaena used to visit her father with her children but again this was taken from her and put on Rhaenyra instead.She was also stripped down of her coronation,of the way she was loved as a queen and how Aegon made sure that she was remembered as the true queen during the dance.They took from her the grief and mourning of her son one of the things that will literally drove her to death,because only Rhaenyra can cry her son and no one else.

Aegon was transformed into a rapist,because you can’t like him,you can only like Rhaenyra.There was no scene of him and Sunfyre beside the battle of Rook’s Rest,they have the strongest bond between a dragon and a dragon rider,he loved Sunfyre to the point he changed the family sigil to a golden dragon.They took down his will to fight,his family support and loyalty to him,his rage as a father that had lost his son.They took two of his sons,because Maelor do not exist and now he can’t have any more children because in the show he had lost his penis.They made him useless and pushed him on the sidelines in his own story.

I still don’t understand why they had to make Aemond betray his brother when in the book he was loyal to him,also in the book there was no indication of Aegon bullying him so again i don’t understand why choose this path.Daemon had a “redemption arc” after his betrayal one but of course Aemond can’t,only team black can.

Criston Cole is portrayed as an angry incel that still hates one woman that coerced him into having sex with her after he told her no multiple times.So much wasted potential in this character,when in the book he was one of the masterminds of team green,convinced Aegon to take the crown,took care of Sunfyre and served his king just right.

Daeron…sorry who?What do you mean that there is a third brother?I just know that his character will be completely destroyed,he probably will be a bastard with dark hair and we already won’t have the Maelor storyline for him,we definitely won’t see him making Ser Hugh and Ulf change sides or any of his victories with Tessarion.He will probably be marginalized like he already is,because again you can only like team black and only them can have the best.

How can you “pick a side” like they desperately want you to do,when they do shit like this?Literally forcing you to like team black because they are paint as the saints/good guys and assassinated every good thing about team green?

Keep telling me that this show is not team black propaganda and that’s is fair like this.

[ophelieverse]

Everything is reduced to misunderstandings,mistakes and accidents.No one is plotting to take/steal the power like it was supposed to.

Characters are completely changed or are the opposite of what they are in the book.The is no gray,only black and white,only good people or bad ones.

Different team stans are at each other’s throats.

Daemon and Aemond are plotting against the people they are most loyal to and they want to become kings by themselves.

Daeron is lost somewhere and it’s rumored to be a bastard.

Maelor and Nettles don’t exist.Their storylines were so important for characters like Daeron,Helaena,Daemon and Rhaenyra.

Apparently having dragon blood/being valyrian has no use to ride a dragon.

Other dragons,like Dreamfyre,are long forgotten.

There was no interaction,no relationship,not even a conversation between Viserys children.

Laenor simply running away,living his best life in Essos meanwhile his family started a civil war.Same as Daeron,who is trapped in Oldtwon while his siblings are destroying each other.Perfect sense.

Rumors about Alys engaging a relationship with Daemon instead that with Aemond.

Aegon and Criston Cole being the most hated in the fandom when in the book they were completely different,so much wasted potential.

Rhaenyra being paint as saint/mary sue,instead that the political idiot she actually is and the bad person she is(and that’s why i loved her in the book).

Alicent being a scheming little bitch,a Margaery 1.0,not a little scared girl that did what she did because of a misunderstanding.She wanted to usurp the throne,she wanted the power and she didn’t stopped in front of anything.

Rhaenicent scene in the Temple was a comic relief,because otherwise it make no sense if you think about how the characters were supposed to be.Just another proof of how “good” and “misunderstood” they are,acting like it’s the world that goes against them and that is not them that are keep doing a bullshit after another.

Helaena having no reaction after Blood and Cheese,but saying that things like this happen in the world.When in reality this is the event that will forever change her life,she will stop sleeping,bathing and eating.She won’t even look at her other children without feeling guilty for what happened.She literally goes insane with grief.

Rhaena bonding with the dragon that Nettles was supposed to have and that’s mean that we won’t probably see her real dragon:the pink baby Morning,that represents the hope for the dragons because in the dance they all died.

Ryan Condal if you plan to make a show about the Conquest,i beg you to not do it.I don’t want to see Visenya and Rhaenys being rivals and fight over Aegon,because i know this is what will happen!

[addamvelaryon]

Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Corlys was turned into a clueless NPC whose importance is heavily diminished from the source material. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Laena, Laenor and Addam all had their characterization, relationships and storylines warped in service of other characters. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason characters from the books had their existence erased. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason we got several new OCs whose storylines are fleshed out. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Nettles’ storyline has been divided amongst the other characters. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Daeron was retconned out of existence so that his family doesn’t even mention him, before being shoehorned back into existence with a diminished role. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Criston is obsessed with having relationships with women despite his strict adherence to maintaining his honor. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason he claims that Blood & Cheese was propaganda created by Alicent. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Alicent doesn’t care about the Green cause and is very willing to sacrifice her family for a crumb of Rhaenyra’s affections. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Helaena doesn’t care about her children getting hurt and is very ready to get over it. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Rhaena has no personality beyond her lack of a dragon. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Alyn has no personality beyond his lack of a father. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Baela’s only purpose is to give a pep talk to other characters. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Daemon killed Rhea and raises a hand to Rhaenyra, in the show, though that never happened in the book. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is why Daemon mistreated Laena and now ignores Baela & Rhaena. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Rhaenys acts like a preacher of peace. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Aegon regularly bullies Aemond and why Aemond committed treason against Aegon. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason characters’ ages are all over the place. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason characters’ personalities are not consistent over the course of two seasons. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Rhaenyra is not simply a woman fighting for her birthright but a fanatical cult leader who believes herself to have a divine destiny. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason he won’t let Rhaenyra or Alicent commit to the war, despite their family members dying one after another. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason he created a contrived plot where Rhaenicent have secret meetings with each other. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason the showrunner insists that the succession war that tore a family apart is actually about two old friends struggling to get back to each other.

[tessarionbestgirl]

Daemon redemption arc in the book: Falling off Targaryan supremacy ideology represented by falling in love with an smallfolk girl and abandoning Rhaenyra that represents all that.

Daemon redemption arc in the show: Realizing he is nothing and his wify cult leader is everything as much as Targaryen supremacy.

[qyburnsghost]

They deleted Nettles to make Rhaenyra look better, but invented Dyana to make Aegon look worse!

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

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[amuelia]

Daemon Targaryen and Nettles / Aemond Targaryen and Alys

[ride-thedragon]

To add to an exhaustive conversation, Nettles being Daemon's daughter ruins both their arcs in fundamental ways.

Daemon saving his blood over Rhaenyra has a lot of strange implications. Especially since he just leaves the other three directly after that and dies. That doesn't make sense.

Nettles, on the other hand, has a key characteristic of whatever is said about her can be plausible, but it's not often the case.

Nettles being a witch

Nettles sleeping with shepherds

Nettles being Valyrian

Most of her character ideas have this arc of needing to be reexamined. Hence the thought that she isn't a dragonseed.

It's her overall accomplishment, not blood magic, not old Valyria in her bloodstream, pure determination, and intellect.

I've talked about the idea of Nettles and Daemon's potential father daughter dynamic and how it doesn't make sense for the characters we are told they both are.

This is simply an overview of the conflict that arises with this assumption.

[rynnthefangirl]

Bastards in Westeros have my whole heart. To constantly be told that you are lesser, unworthy of titles, unworthy of inheritance, inherently evil and distrustful, not because of anything you did, but simply for being born the “wrong” way. If you are high born, you may even live among the very nobles who revile and mistrust you. You— a child who has done them no wrong. And even if you are lucky enough to have your bastardy be mere rumor, you still are not spared. Because whether or not people wish to raise you high or burn you to the ground hinges entirely on whether your mother slept with the right person 9 months before you existed… even though you are the same person regardless. Wars will be fought just to punish you for being born.

[evagreen-stories]

Honestly, I'm DEVASTATED they've completely cut Nettles and are doing this whole Rhaena x Sheepstealer thing.

Not just because that means we will most likely never see Morning but because Nettles was such an important part of the story. Not just because of the battles she fought but because of her crucial role in Daemon and Aemonds battle and deaths.

Believe what you want, whether she was Daemon's lover or bastard daughter, it was Rhaenyra growing so paranoid after the two dragonseeds changed sides and ordering the ASSASSINATION of that young woman that pushed Daemon to go on that su*cide mission after Aemond.

With Nettles needing to flee and Daemon realising Rhaenyra doesn't trust him anymore and is willing to go after him/his lover/his daughter, he was willing to sacrifice himself and his dragon while bringing down Aemond & Vhagar.

Had it not been for that, the whole story would have been totally different. Perhaps the war would have raged on for far longer as well.

At this point it feels like they won't even do Rhaenyra's paranoia arch and her demise. That they won't have her order Addams arrest, imprison Corlys, order the assassination of Nettles, etc.

It feels like they've turned her into an empowered, always rational, never doing any wrong feminist-icon while her book version was SO much different.

That's what I liked so much about the books and the entire GoT/HotD universe; that there are no good people, only bad people and worse ones.

"Choose your favourite war criminal" type of stuff. That's totally missing from this show, in my opinion. It's all too black and white. It's almost... boring at this point.

At this point, I hold little hope for the rest of this show to get much better. Even George has (indirectly) spoken out against this change.

[balls-heheh]

“He’s kind.”

In this moment, I like to imagine that she feels pure unbridled bittersweetness.

He’s kind, there is apart of me out there that is kind.

But it could only exist without my presence.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Believe it or not, scrapping Nettles and giving her storyline to Rhaena is a big disservice towards Team Black.

Why?

Because Rhaena being able to hatch a dragon after Rhaenyra died (whereas the Greens couldn’t), was a symbol of hope for victory for the Blacks (the right side). Even the Greens were scared of what Morning being born meant for the Realm.

It was basically proof of the Gods favoring the Blacks, and it’s what inspired Rhaenyra’s forces to strike and defeat the usurper.

[lingulaca]

"nettles and daemon saw each other as family! them bathing together isn't sexual!"

older men do not casually or platonically bathe with young girls who aren't related to them. that literally does not happen, not even in the freaky world of westeros. even if you try to make the argument that that could happen, 49 year old daemon targaryen, aka the lord of flea bottom, aka biggest manwhore in king's landing would NOT be able to nonsexually bathe with a younger girl. first of all, we know his type is people around nettles' age. the book states that while nettles was young she wasn't nearly as young as the girls he deflowered in his youth. don't be dense guys, this is the rogue prince himself we're talking about here...

also, i really feel like the constant pushback on the notion of romantic!dettles is not only kinda racist but also very motivated by ppl not wanting to take in what actually happened. we know daemon's reputation, we know what he likes to do and who he likes to do it to but him desiring/pursuing a black girl is where y'all are drawing the line? if it was said that daemon took baths with rhaenyra when she was 17, that would never be interpreted as anything other than more daemyra evidence. but because it's nettles, a black girl, suddenly their relationship just has to be this nuanced "he could have been her father figure!" thing. guys. he bathed with her. the fucking lord of flea bottom with that reputation bathed with a YOUNG GIRL and that's... ambiguous to you? read the book again at this point

[qyburnsghost]

HE IS PISSED

https://x.com/westerosies/status/1829521118606049761?s=46