#pokemonisbeast1999

[fancyfade]

Do you know if you’ve ever done a post that dismantles the misconception that Dick “stole” Robin away from Tim to give it to Damian? I’ve seen posts debunking a lot of stuff on your poll but i have a hard time trying to find ones that succinctly tear that one apart lol

I've got you

Damian's intro to being Robin is told 2 ways, one in pre new 52 continuity, in battle for the cowl, and the other in post new 52 continuity, in secret origins 4.

in battle for the cowl, Damian starts in his black and white league of shadows uniform. Then, he's shot by Batman!Jason and Dick has some "i'm responsible for this child" moment, but does not make him Robin. We see Damian pretty much right after he regains consciousness:

Alfred tells him to earn his keep and gives him the Robin outfit, and next thing we see he's Robin

That's Battle for the Cowl, the pre-new 52 story (and also aside: first thing Damian does as Robin, what Alfred is setting him up to do, is to save Tim's life with squire (link))

Secret Origins 4 is for the broader part my favorite (I do like Damian saving Tim's life in Battle for the cowl tho), and I think it's way mroe focused on Damian's character.

We start, we see he's trying to establish a connection to his father

and he's clearly resentful about not having a connection to his dad

Alfred's worried Damian's going too far

So Alfred has Dick bring Damian back to the Batcave and says he found something

Dick is clearly in on it in that he knows it is going on, but it is framed as Alfred's idea, with him forging the letter, him being the one reaching out to Damian and worried he's going too far and contacting Dick (and dick saying he doesn't know much about Damian beforehand in this comic and Alfred explains), and Alfred being the one who seemed to have made the suit, since Dick said he liked it and alfred says dialogue implying it was his design decision (never wise to stray too far from perfection")

anyway the implication is that Alfred made Damian Robin to try to give him a connection to his father, because Damian was inconsolable (but... in the assassin way not the crying way :P)

even in Red Robin #1, which I assume most people (who read comics :P) are referencing for Dick 'giving' Damian Robin, all Tim says is how can you let Dick w

So it might be reasonable for the reader to assume here that Dick made Damian Robin.. but since he didn't, Tim is just asking how he can let him wear it. I have a post fully breaking down this scene here (link)

[bitimdrake]

What’s your opinion of that post going around saying that Jason is a character doomed by the narrative while Tim is doomed by his own flaws? I personally disagree with it because a lot of what happens to Tim is out of his control (like his friends and parents dying), and while Jason’s death was out of his control almost everything that happens to him after becoming Red Hood is due to his own flaws and lashing out at others. I’m curious about what you think :)

ohhh interesting. Because I am simultaneously like "yeah that post is neat and I agree with it!" and "yeah you're totally right and I agree with you!" I am simply agreeable :)

Hm. I think a significant portion of why the original post strikes something true is the meta context. Jason was doomed, not because of anything about him, but because he had the misfortune to be written in an era where the main Batman writer hated the idea of the Robin. He had a lead writer who kept trying to get him killed, and finally succeeded.

On the flip side, Tim is very protected by the narrative. DC knew damn well they could not let something bad happen to this Robin right after the death of the last one, lest the concept of Robin be ruined forever. So even as terrible things happen to the people around Tim, he himself is very very safe for the first twenty years of his history, and only really could be seriously hurt after there's a new Robin.

(Also, iirc, that post labels Tim-soomed-by-flaws specifically as a Greek tragedy and like. I'm no classics expert, but I don't think being a doomed-by-flaws Greek tragedy is mutually exclusive with having shitty things out of your control also happen to you.)

It also feels most true when specifically around Jason's Robin tenures. Jason was recruited by Bruce, largely did good, and died anyway because the universe was cruel. Tim, on the flip side, very much chose to be here despite having full access to a normal, safe life.

Also. idk. Tim does have hubris struck down by the gods energy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ This is most especially true in Red Robin, and especially especially under Nicieza's writing, where he may be informed by grief but is also a guy so infuriatingly convinced of his Rightness.

Onnn the other hand: everything you've said is also totally true!

Jason is a tragedy doomed by the narrative as Robin. But while he carries some of that energy even after returning, he is very much making his own mistakes as the Red Hood. There's a lens to look at it where Jason is narratively doomed because he never got to live a real life and is now stuck being against the main character (Bruce) who will inevitably prevail. But there is also the more Watsonian lens where Jason is absolutely doomed by his own flaws and causing his own destruction when he doesn't need to!!

[eta paragraph got lost here; re-adding] Red Hood Jason does a lot of really awful things that were entirely his decision. And he faces a lot of struggles that he very much could have avoided if it weren't for his own flaws. And though Tim is flawed and never died (and arguably isn't even really a tragedy?), the terrible things that have impacted him the most--the various deaths of people he loves--were fully out of his control, and sometimes not even narratively about him! (e.g. Steph fridged for Bruce; Bruce, Conner, Bart all killed/"killed" for their own stories, etc)

In the end, I guess it's a matter of perspective. Which vibes are strongest to you.

[mamawasatesttube]

Tim stans and Tim haters are so weird sometimes lol. Both of them just make up shit to justify why he’s the best/worst character lmao

some people out there really are just saying things. choose your fighter: "dick tried to put tim in arkham!!!!!" vs "tim and kon weren't even close until the geoff retcon smh kon doesn't even like him".

truly the "make up a guy" champions of all time...

[coralhoneyrose]

Do you know any other good Chrobin blogs by any chance? I need more of those two 😂

I do, yes! (Apologies in advance if I miss some people, I don't want this to be obscenely long, so I'm mostly grabbing accounts from my following list that have been active relatively recently)

Some artists who make really great chrobin stuff:

femuirdris

lordyunaa

chynandri

middletide

birbtactician

aanimatoryellow

trunswicked

amorizel

tecchiii

natsubkoge

sseunbean

quaralight

And some chrobin fic writers whose work I enjoy:

phantom-miria

lumailia

iturbide

the-priestess-of-dawn

gimureifeathers

kumeko

ultraviolet-psyche

liekahp

Hope that gives you a good place to jump off from!

[ufonaut]

As someone who knows unfortunately little about Green Lantern can you please elaborate about the explode at will thing 😂

i don't know what to tell you. he can explode

note how he explodes on impact. after telling doiby that he's gonna blow up (all-american comics 1939 #61)

by the time he becomes the starheart and no longer requires supercharging, exploding becomes a very frequent possibility based on his emotional state

(green lantern 1990 #110)

[evilwickedme]

Do you have any spicy Batman fandom hot takes? I’ll tell you mine if you tell me yours 👀

Honestly I feel like I've gone through most of my batfam fandom hot takes by now! Biggest one - both in that it's the one I believe in the most and the one that matters the most - is that pit rage is a made up concept that is very rarely used in fic in a productive manner (although not never), and is in fact usually used to excuse perpetuating actual abuse, usually on Tim.

I also think Steph is soooo underappreciated as a character - really every member of the batfam who isn't Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian is regularly ignored and/or has their role minimized by the fandom but Steph was a Robin!!!! She's been around only a tiny bit less than Tim has been!!!! What the fuck are you doing making reverse robin AUs that ignore her!!!! Honestly as far as characters go her fanonization isn't even as bad as Tim or Dick's so most fics feel at least like an echo of who she actually is, when they remember to include her!!

I think the fanon versions of the batfam is fine for comedy or fluff fics (although I wish more of these fics too were closer to canon), but when it comes to angsty fics the fact that so many members of the fandom have literally never read a comic is. Very fucking clear. And it does get very annoying, especially with That One Very Prolific Tim And Jason Whump Author, you know the one, but also just like... All of that author's copycats. There's fanon that I think is mostly fun and harmless - baby stalker!Tim, jason's white stripe (which is basically being recanonized anyway) - but so much of fanon is just. Steph only cares about waffles!!!! Tim is a caffeine addict and the smartest person ever!!! Dick is nice and fluffy and the perfect older brother!!!! Damian's the murderous child!!!! Duke isn't even there!!!! And it's like. My guys I actually like the characters in the comics. Like that's why I'm here? But it's very apparent that that's not why most of the people in the batman (comics) tag are there. That said, the same thing is true in the spider-man (comics) tag, so at least it's true for more than one popular character, it's just the character assassination of the batfam is character assassination of like 15 characters, where with Spidey fics for ppl who haven't read the comics you're lucky if they mention MJ.

Oh and obviously fuck the batcest.

But I've definitely said all of this before. Idk like at the end of the day I'm enjoying the side of the fandom I'm on with the millions of filters I put on automatically the moment I open ao3, and the people who aren't here for grounded takes on real characters skip hang on 'til the chaos is through and go straight to before we get married, I need to get permission from Batman, and as long as they're reading my fics I'm getting the dopamine you know?

[tarvek-sturmvoraus]

Aw that’s ok. I was looking forward to talking about it with someone. You don’t like canon Jason and Tim? I’m not the biggest Jason fan but I love Tim’s and Jason’s canon relationship because it’s so funny lol Tim finds Jason so annoying and can’t stand him. I hope you enjoy the snippets you do see!

i mean i only recognize preboot canon and last i heard in there jason stabbed tim in the chest with a batarang and blew up a cave around him, so

[figofswords]

I just read your character study fic for Tim and I just wanted to say I am so glad you wrote that because it was everything I ever wanted. People can write whatever they want but I do wish more people in the fandom actually read the comics and stopped relying on fanon characterizations and fanon tropes. You fixed a lot of the stuff in canon I don’t like yet managed to keep it respectful to the source material and to that I say bravo 👏👏

Thank you! Yeah I wrote it kind of out of frustration with fanon because like,,,fanon has its time and place but when the overwhelming majority of fanmade content for a given work uses characterizations that are so far from canon as to be nearly unrecognizable (which in big part is due to the fact that a huge portion of the fandom straight up has not read the source material) it can be. annoying. like sometimes I want to read fanfic that has remotely recognizable links to the media it’s supposed to be based off of. and then the flip side of that is due to comics being a serialized format grappling with decades worth of storylines and writer changeovers plus shitty editorial decisions. sometimes canon Also does not make sense. and at that point I go to fanfic like hey what if this story made sense—wait where are we what are you all talking about go back a few steps back up back up back up

which is all to say. comics characters take up an inordinate amount of space in my brain. so I’m glad you liked the fanfic product of that :)

[havendance]

( From @pokemonisbeast1999. Sorry, needed to repost this answer because I accidentally posted early.)

Yeah, I'm totally down to share fic recs.

All the Roofs of Uncertainty by Kieron_ODuibhir 70k, complete. This is the probably the number 1 fic I'd recommend if you're looking for Jason fic that really wrestles with all the parts of his post-crisis appearances. Dick gets injured and Bruce and Jason spend a lot of time talking by his bedside. Set at some hypothetical point where the universe didn't reboot in flashpoint.

won't ask you to survive me by ceramicheart 750, complete. Short and sweet (well not exactly sweet), but a moment between Jason and Talia prior to the Under the Red Hood Arc.

Missing Hood by Who_First 12k, complete. Fic where Tim shows up during the events of Under the Red Hood, specifically the movie version. It’s been a while since I’ve read this one, but from what I remember, it should fit what you’re looking for.

snippet: Cass and Jason, guns and targets by @silverwhittlingknife Complete. Gotta give a shout out to this excellent little scene/fight between Jason and Cass.

The Kindly Ones by Havendance 2.5k, complete. Full disclosure, this one’s one of mine, but you came to me, so. After the events of Under the Red Hood, Jason encounters the furies.

See You At Your Worst by wildsofmarch 15.5k, complete. Finally, this one might not be exactly what you’re looking for, but I like so, I’m tossing it in anyway. Dick Grayson in his mob era interacts with Jason in his Red Era prior to Under the Red Hood.

[pandora15]

Omg I was joking but if you seriously wrote this I would cancel all my plans in order to read it!

re: this

Ahhhh it’s actually a good idea though????  Like to see Maul and Ahsoka team up, there would be a lot to explore, so....

Yeah, I’ll try writing it!

[fancyfade]

Do you ever get frustrated with the way the fandom misuses the word “coding”? I get irritated when people say something is “coded” when in reality it's just personal interpretation. Coding is used for when there is deliberate subtext by the author, not when a reader interprets something a certain way. For example, Jason is not woman-coded in my opinion and I don’t think Dick is intentionally queer-coded. It's fine to see and relate to Jason’s struggles through the eyes of being a woman and it is completely fine to interpret Dick as queer, but I don't think it was the authors intentions for things to be seen that way in canon. You have a good head in your shoulders so if love to hear your thoughts about it :)

oh you are so so right

like. so many people just say there was intentional coding when what they really mean is they have a strong headcanon. like you can have a headcanon! That doesn't mean it is based on something the author intentionally put in the text to code a character a certain way*! I have so many headcanons that are not supported by intentional coding! even if there is things in canon that can be read as support for it, it doesn't necessarily mean it was coding! And that's fine!

like and yeah most dick queer coded stuff i've seen is stretching very, very far. that's not to say i think people shouldn't headcanon dick as queer, i have that hc myself! It just means that there is not really any evidence to support it being actual intention of the authors.

i think there are some cases where it's like accidental subtext, like dixon writing connor as so clearly uninterested in women and uncomfortable around sexual situations, maybe accidental subtext is a better word than coding there, but anyway other times you just have fans seeing like. 'oh well the writer was too misogynistic to flesh out this male character's relationship w/ his gf (and the gf on her own outside of relationships), but did with his best friend. this is obviously queer coding instead of the writer being a misogynist'.

*sometimes it is, but the existence of a headcanon does not mean it is

[bitimdrake]

Here is the interview I think they’re talking about

thank you so much!!!

(a) yeah this tracks for what I imagine a writer behind Battle for the Cowl would say re Jason

(b) sure enough it is not about "green mountain dew created magic anger issues" pit madness, but about the ol' "the lazarus pit made ra's crazy and therefore Evil" but applied to jason

(c) "Jason wasn't all that right in the head to begin with". Guys (dc writers). Come on. I am begging you to actually read your own comics before you write about the characters in them. Robin Jason was literally fine.

(d) "Jason wasn't all that right in the head to begin with". Guys (fellow fans). Come on. We can do better than this guy for sources on Jason Todd.

[mamawasatesttube]

Out of curiosity, what were your other longfics about? Also, do you have any other dc fics planned once you finish your Timkon one? You’re such a good writer and I would be happy if you wrote other stuff 😍

fantasy/royalty aus with magic and intrigue and worldbuilding! honestly, they were fun, but i think they'd work even better as original fiction (i'd just have to change all the stuff referential to the stories they were originally fanfic of + the plot elements that rely on the reader already knowing the characters and their dynamics, which would be a pain so i haven't bothered doing that LOL).

and yes!!! i already have a few wips on the back burner for until sotm is done. there's both selkie au AND another funky little space adventure thing that beckett and i are rotating together, and then also a couple of kon&jon-centric ideas i have, and some kon&clark ones, and also maybe Maybe one dick&jason idea that's been haunting me since i read nightwing '96, and also my qp konbart agenda that i need to push, and

so tl;dr YEAH i will still be here for a while, if my wip folder has anything to say about it <3 thank you so much, you're so sweet!!!

[coralhoneyrose]

I found a fellow Chrobin enjoyer 🥰 this is the one good thing to happen because of Elon’s incompetence I suppose 😂

Oh, hello!! It's always lovely finding other people who share the chrobin taste bud <3 glad to see something positive come of this whole mess LOL

[ufonaut]

What you say is so true because just recently I saw someone who absolutely rags on the Nightwing comic gush over the Dceased ending and I was so confused lol. Do they not know it was written by the same person? I feel like people are too mean sometimes about comic books they don’t like. Tom Taylor writes mediocre stuff in my opinion but the hate he receives feels a little overblown.

no, exactly, 90% of people on here seem completely incapable of telling the difference between tom king & tom taylor and they're certainly completely incapable of naming any writers that aren't active on twitter! it drives me crazy every day because being unable to name any writers also makes them unable to catch on recurring themes & motifs in said writers' work and it makes any attempted analysis outright laughable. to me, comic 'fans' active in fandom are the equivalent of mcu viewers being considered film lovers... and they're just about as literate too.

and i also agree about tom taylor! he's a mediocre writer, he's gotten it wrong every now and again but he's got good moments too and man, i hate to say it but for a straight dude he's wildly dedicated to lgbt rep and he's definitely been putting his money where his mouth is when it comes to going to bat for jon kent so. it's not all bad. not to mention he personally gave us alan scott's only on panel gay kiss so far in injustice: year zero! the criticism about oracle etc is certainly a valid point to bring up but i think anybody sending death threats to writers is like probably not well lmao

[evilwickedme]

Is it a hot take to get annoyed with DC for adding Nightwing to the pride month covers? They just came out and it gets me annoyed that they keep putting him on there even though it’s clear that they have no intention of making him queer. It feels like queerbaiting because a lot of people hc him as bi or trans and they keep giving people false hope. Why can’t they use actual queer characters for representation 😩

Lmao that's what I said

Anyway I know this isn't on DC but it just reminded me that Deadpool's never gotten a pride cover and if he doesn't get one this year when he's finally got a non binary love interest I'm going to sue