#post-war fire nation

[witchzoe]

We didn't have any democratic movements in the post-war Fire Nation as far as my knowledge of the post-canon stuff goes.

This feels somewhat strange to me, considering that the post-war Fire Nation feels like a place were this could very easily happen.

We know that the previous Firelords mismanagened and neglected parts of the Fire Nation, so some common folk may have some very understandable misgivings with those Firelords. The current administration under Zuko also says, that the previous Firelords were responsible for a lot of suffering and pain. If you suffered under the Firelords for 100 years, you might begin to question if you need a Firelord at all.

Zuko as a Firelord could also embolden those sentiments. He is working to reform the Fire Nation towards a more equal and open society. He supported the election in the former colonies and he supports the United Republic of Nations, a democracy. But Zuko is still an authoritarian absolute monarch. Which begs the question if Zuko possesses the ruthlessness and brutality for the oppression that is necessary to uphold an authoritarian rule?

Zuko's reforms may calm some republican sentiments. It may also embolden them and cause them to turn on Zuko, when the reforms aren't as radical as they had hoped, feeling betrayed by their supposed ally. There are quite a few reason why people might fear that Zuko's reforms won't be able to meet their expectations. Those might be ideological (Zuko is a member of the royal family and the former crown prince), practical (Zuko is a youg and untrained Firelord), related to the inherent dangers of an authoritarian ruler (Zuko already became more authoritarian once in the Smoke&Shadow comics, he could become so again) or related to the volatility of the political climate (If Zuko gets assassinated/couped, what will happen with the already passed reforms?).

Keeping all this in mind, I think a movemnt to turn the Fire Nation into a democracy could easily form. Even more so if the Equalists or the Red Lotus also get involved.

[blluespirit]

i keep thinking about zuko during the day of black sun, starting down his father who's goaded him into staying by torturing him with details of his missing mother, only to use that opportunity to try and kill him again.... only for Zuko to use a technique Ozai did not even know possible, flowing through motions that are distinctly not firebending demonstrating a power so different and deeper than Ozai could ever fathom... idk man just zuko

[puppyeared]

i feel like im not making any sense but does anyone else feel like there are stories that let u run with them and ones that spell everything out for you

[zesstie]

post war where the gaang is telling zuko abt their escapade to the fire nation. sokka tells zuko abt how he pulled off mr wang fire incredibly well, kataras telling zuko abt how fire nation has a pretty decent style. and aang complains to zuko abt how shit the schooling is, complains abt how it’s historically inaccurate and “no fun AT ALL like how did the poor children get thru their day!?” and zuko is nodding along, yknow, being considerate bc aang is really passionate abt this topic. but as soon as they leave zuko runs to his office and starts reconstructing the entire school system. he has multiple lists, chalkboards for brainstorming, and constructed little models of classrooms. toph helps zuko with making sure it’s accessible for every single child. he doesn’t have a lot to go off of due to being raised the way he was and his social awkwardness, but he uses his time with the gaang and when he was at sea to create a bomb ass, fun as hell, new schooling system. aang cries

[bluespiritshonour]

Today in my full updo Zuko propaganda:

Zuko's a carbon copy of his father plus the scar. Now, the half-updo made Ozai look real fine. Adult Zuko grew into his father's features—he real fine too, like his father—he dresses like him (duh!)—he sure as hell ain't gonna wear his hair like him. 😤

Has anyone got fics where Zuko hates that he looks like his father? And honestly, that would affect his feelings about the scar. Him being grateful for it would be so fucked up and he'd know it too.

[lakewinnipeg]

I stole this screenshot from someone else and the qtweet is a dreadful+factually incorrect thing to say but it's a red herring anyway cuz the actual reason Hitler is the token evil guy in our culture, which is obvious as soon as you think about it for a single minute, is bc every fucking hollywood adventure movie from 1941 thru to the 1990s had pop-culture nazis as antagonists, ergo Nazis being The Bad Guys [capitalization denoting proper noun] became solidly entrenched in anglosphere culture

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

Why Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin Shouldn't Be Written as Having ASPD

Keynote: Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) is the proper medical term as far as I know for what is commonly referred to as sociopathy and psychopathy. So I use ASPD throughout this meta in lieu of those terms.

It is a commonly held belief in ATLA fandom that some combination of Sozin, Azulon, Ozai, and/or Azula have ASPD since there is no good explanation for the way that they treat their “loved ones”, their subjects, and the world other than them being utterly incapable of feeling empathy for others.

And while I do admit that reading Sozin, Azulon, Ozai, and/or Azula as suffering from ASPD is a perfectly acceptable and well-supported by canon, I personally think they shouldn’t be written as suffering from ASPD because there are three, story-based reasons for not doing so.

Or more specifically, if Sozin, Azulon, Ozai and Azula aren’t written as suffering from ASPD, (1) it strengthens their ability to serve as character foils, (2) allows there to be a better reason for why the Fire Nation waged the Hundred Year War, as well allow for more interesting stories to be told of Zuko and his descendants reforming the Fire Nation, and (3) the franchise’s stance on the nature versus nurture debate would be kept in tact.

This is because, in regards to point (1), Sozin, Azulon, Ozai, and Azula not only serve as character foils to members of their family, but also other people in the other nations as well.

And the four Fire Nation royals serving as character foils not only enhances Avatar’s characterization, but also plays an important role in the narrative as well.

For example, one of the key parallels in ATLA is that between Zuko and Sozin, or more generally, their relationships with their respective Avatar over time.

(Yes, I do think Roku-Sozin are meant to be paralleled with Aang-Zuko since I don't think it was a mistake that Zuko and Aang learned about Roku and Sozin's past in the same episode.) 

(Or that one of the last scenes in the show has Fire Lord Zuko at his coronation have Aang by his side not just as the Avatar, but also as his friend as well as evidenced by their hug just before Zuko got crowned.)

(Or that both Sozin and Zuko were given multiple, unearned chances by their respective Avatars to do better.)

This is because, despite growing up best friends with the Avatar, knowing true firebending, and growing up in a mostly peaceful world, Sozin’s lust for power and desire to spread the Fire Nation’s “greatness” caused him to forsake balance, which resulted in him dying a bitter, regretful old man who killed his best friend so he could start a genocidal war of conquest.

Meanwhile, despite only knowing rage-based firebending, growing up in a world at war, and being raised to believe that the Avatar was his nation’s sworn enemy, Zuko eventually rejected Sozin’s path and chose to follow Aang and help him restore balance.

And as a result of his strength of character, Zuko will more likely than not die a happy, old man, one who not only helped the world heal, but also managed to become best friends with Aang, despite everything that transpired between them during the first couple of months they knew each other.

Another key parallel is that between not only Zuko and Azula, but also Azula and Katara as well.

For in Zuko’s case, Azula serves as a reminder of what could have happened to Zuko if he never managed to (inadvertently) get out of Ozai’s thumb and eventually reject him for good.

Or more specifically, a conqueror with all the physical and political power in the world, but eventually goes mad since they have no one to share it with due to alienating everyone in their quest for power and Ozai’s approval.

Meanwhile, Azula serves as a reminder of what Katara could have become if she used her family trauma as justification to become an unrepentant monster.

That and if Katara was raised without love and taught that empathy was weakness, not a strength.

For they are both powerful benders, daughters of their nation’s respective heads of state, have hot-headed older bros who are swordsmen, trained under the same master, and whose (final) girlfriends are warriors.

Moreover, they have mother issues related to their missing mothers and serve as the emotional center of their groups, though Katara’s stays together while Azula’s fails apart due to Katara being able to love her companions while Azula is only capable of using fear to keep her companions in line.

But beyond the obvious parallels, there are also interesting parallels between Ozai and Hakoda, Iroh and Azula, and Ozai and Zuko.

This is because in the case of Ozai and Hakoda, they have dead or presumed to be dead wives, daughters who are bending prodigies, sons who wanted nothing more than to make them proud, and are elite warriors.

However, due to a combination of the cycle of abuse and his insatiable lust for power, Ozai constantly pushed his children and pitted them against each other, resulting in him losing the War and his freedom as one of his children went insane while the other betrayed him after realizing he had nothing of value to offer to them or the world.

Meanwhile, Hakoda was a supportive and loving father who taught his kids the value of family and friendship, and as result, he managed to win the War because his kids were able to work together and support each other and their friends.

In regards to Iroh and Azula, even though on the surface they don’t seem to share that much in common, especially since their personalities are different, they not only are very similar people, but also serve as direct foils to each other.

For they were both brilliant military strategists and tacticians with hot headed brothers, brothers who grew up in their shadows due to them not being able to keep up with their psychotic fathers’ expectations while they easily met them, and thus “thrived.”

They were the favored children of genocidal warlords, in addition to being heavily sheltered and coddled bending prodigies who came up with several, new firebending techniques.

They have a tendency to manipulate and lie to those around them, were complicit in the Fire Nation’s war crimes, and killed people in combat.

(Yes, Iroh is complicit in the Fire Nation’s war crimes. This is because, beyond the fact that the TTRPG confirms he was the Rough Rhinos’ commander when they burned Jet’s village, he was a leading general and crown prince for several decades.)

(Moreover, it is highly unlikely he never sat in his father’s war council meetings, or was unaware of stuff like the Southern Raids, or what happened to the captured Southern Waterbenders.)

(Especially since the TTRPG implies he learned lightning redirection from observing waterbenders before Lu Ten’s death, and so, unless he met Foggy Swamp Tribe Waterbenders, he either participated in the Southern Raids or observed the captured Southern Waterbenders since the North hadn’t seen Fire Nation soldiers in eighty-five years.)

(Also, in my opinion, post-redemption Iroh is a liar and manipulator, even if it is for a good cause.)

(For he lied to Zuko and his crew about his true allegiances, hid the fact that he was a member of the White Lotus, and tried manipulating Zuko to turn into an outright traitor in the Catacombs, with the last point being really egregious in my opinion.)

(This is because he hadn’t done anything to challenge Zuko’s worldview, or help him see past it, instead trying to rely on his personal connection with Zuko.)

And they not only conquered, or tried conquering, Ba Sing Se, but also lost everything in their quests to fulfill their forefathers’ vile dreams.

However, partially due to his strength of character, and partially due to having more freedom and sanity, Iroh was able to use him hitting rock bottom to reflect and grow as a person before dedicating the rest of his life and afterlife to helping restore and maintain balance.

Meanwhile, as of current canon, Azula is incapable or unwilling to engage in self-reflection, remaining essentially the same person she was before her downfall, though much more dangerous as she has not only grown in power, but is now trying to unleash dark spirits so she can take down her brother’s regime so she can retake the throne and restart the Hundred Year War.

Finally, in regards to Ozai and Zuko, it is pretty obvious from the way adult Zuko looks like Ozai, Zuko’s initial aggressive bending style, the fact that they are both hot-heads who lived in the shadow of their prodigal siblings and resented them for it, at least until he defected in Zuko’s case, and the fact they were their father’s unfavored child that they are character foils.

Or in other words, Ozai is what Zuko could have become if he never got out of his father’s thumb, didn’t have positive influences like Ursa and (post-redemption) Iroh, and let his hate and desire for his father’s love warp him into a monster, one who continued the cycle of abuse and War in order to fill the gaping hole in his heart caused by a lack of parental love.

I could go on, but the point is that Sozin, Azulon, Ozai, and Azula play important roles as character foils to several of the main characters, not only strengthening their characterization, but also the narrative as a whole.

However, if they are written as having ASPD, their ability to serve as character foils is severely weakened, not only weakening the characterization of several characters, but also ATLA’s narrative as a whole as well.

For if Sozin has ASPD, then the parallel between the Sozin-Roku and Zuko-Aang relationship is lost, or at least severely weakened, since Sozin becoming a genocidal tyrant is due to his genetics, and not because he made the wrong choices in life.

If Azulon has ASPD, then a large amount of the differences between his children can be chalked up to Ozai inheriting his ASPD while Iroh did not, instead of the differences in how they were raised, their different life experiences, and strength of character, or lack thereof, explaining why ended becoming the people they did, as well as their eventual fates.

If Ozai has ASPD, then his failures as a man, father, brother, and ruler aren’t due to his upbringing and his weakness of character, but instead due to his genetics.

If Azula has ASPD, then her ability to serve as a dark reflection of what could have been for Zuko and Katara is lost since Azula becoming and staying evil is a result of her genetics, and not her choices.

And more generally, if they have ASPD, then the four of them starting and continuing to wage the Hundred Year War can be chalked up to their genetics and them being in positions of unchecked power, which leads into both my second and third points.

This is because, in regards to point (2), if Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin have ASPD, then the reason why the Fire Nation started the Hundred Year War essentially becomes bad people who were on the throne and/or had power.

Whereas if Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin don’t have ASPD, then the reason why the Hundred Year occurred can be seen as the end result of the Royal Family over the centuries engaging in greater violence, as well as enacting more and more centralization and authoritarian measures, to prevent the spilling of blood, resulting in them losing the plot.

That and the Fire Nation being fundamentally flawed since it was created and maintained through acts of violence.

For the first Fire Lord united the war-torn Fire Islands, thus ushering a prolonged period of peace, by violently bringing the warring clans to heel.

Centuries, if not thousands of years, later, when it became apparent that political conspiracies and economic crises that came about due to nobles clashing with the Fire Lord, as well as the Royal Family fighting amongst itself, periodically weakened the Fire Lord’s authority to the point that bloody civil wars often occurred, Fire Lord Yosor, working with Avatar Szeto, helped stabilize the Fire Nation by implementing political and economic reforms that, among other things, centralized power in the national government’s bureaucracy, which was obviously controlled by the Fire Lord.

However, Yosor and Szeto’s reforms were still not enough to ensure peace, for the clans’ conflict with the crown, which at this point was held by Fire Lord Zoryu, almost led to a civil war in what came to be known as the Camellia-Peony War. Thus, Zoryu began a multi-generational project in which the clans’ power would permanently be dissolved, with the only figure able to wield power being the Fire Lord.

And while it took centuries, Sozin completed the project, which not only ensured, as far as Sozin and the Royal Family were concerned, the Fire Nation’s peace and prosperity, but also enabled Sozin to pursue policies to uplift all of his subjects.

And after seeing the success of the policies he implemented, Sozin then had the bright idea of spreading the Fire Nation’s propensity by any means possible.

For while it was utterly evil and led to an incalculable amount of lost and/or ruined lives, it would make complete sense from his point of view considering one could easily make the argument that life in the Fire Nation got better as the Fire Lord concentrated more and more power in the throne, as well engaged in increasing amounts of violence to keep the peace.

And obviously his descendants, especially Ozai and Azula, would agree with Sozin’s worldview considering he embarked on a historical revision project so widespread and successful that not only was there one place in the Fire Nation by the end of the War that had unbiased historical records, the Dragonbone Catacombs, but also had managed to brainwash the Fire Nation to the point that they thought that Airbending was demonic and that the pacifist Air Nomads were in fact the Air Nation and had a standing army.

So, if the above explanation of why the Fire Nation waged the Hundred Year War is canon, instead of the “bad people on the throne” explanation, then Zuko and his descendants’ task of reforming the Fire Nation likewise becomes that much more complicated, and thus allows for richer storytelling.

For instead having to only make to sure that no one with ASPD inherits the throne or is in a position to wield power, Zuko and his descendants would have to ask hard questions about the nature of the Fire Nation government and why the Fire Nation ended up waging the Hundred Year War, questions like, “Are human rights compatible with absolute monarchies?”, “What do we have to do in order to not only de-Sozinize our people, but also make sure that Sozism and related strains of thought never become popular again?” before then taking action to implement solutions to those questions.

And the process of them trying to come with and implement reforms in order to make sure the Fire Nation never starts another war like the Hundred Year War, as well deal with issues in regards to said reforms as they pop up, would lead to compelling stories.

Especially since there are few things that can provide credible physical challenges to the post-war Gaang or post-Season 4 Krew, and so, in order to tell compelling stories with real stakes, they need non-physical problems or threats they can’t punch their way through.

For example, imagine seeing Zuko trying to implement democratic reforms after realizing that part of the issue was that one man had the power to plunge the world into chaos, struggling to get the nobility and upper classes to accept the lost their privileges and power, as well establish democratic norms in a nation with no known history of democracy?

Or seeing Izumi fight back against a populist resurgence of Sozism as most of the people who lived through the end of the Hundred Year War are now dead or old, struggling to put down it without becoming a tyrant?

Finally, in regards to point (3), regardless of how people feel about it, the franchise has been pretty consistent on which side of the nurture vs nature debate it stands with, constantly implying, if not outright stating, that its heroes and villains alike are products of nurture, not nature.

Moreover, the franchise has provided explanations, but never justifications, for why various villainous characters like Yun, Amon and Kuriva ended up doing the evil things they ended up doing, ranging from being betrayed by their father figure after being lied to their whole lives, being warped by abusive parenting, to unresolved abandonment issues.

However, the franchise’s consistent stance that evil is a product of nurture, not nature, would be heavily contracted if Azula, Ozai, and Azulon, and/or Sozin were written to have ASPD, at least to the degree that fandom thinks they have it.

For while ASPD is not a guarantee that someone would become a threat to society, as seen by the fact that a famous ASPD researcher has ASPD himself, yet managed to have a productive, normal life with friends and family, most people think that people with ASPD have the malignant version of it, as seen in various other artistic works like We Need to Talk About Kevin.

So, in combination with the fact that Azula, Ozai, and Azulon, and Sozin in all likelihood will never have their upbringings detailed on-screen or on-panel, if they are written to have ASPD, the audience will more likely than not assume that they were born with malignant ASPD, and thus born evil.

“Ok, you make some good points, but what if I don’t I don’t want Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and/or Sozin to be anything more than uncomplicated villains?” 

“For a lot of shows nowadays have complicated villains with motives, and so giving the four Fire Nation Royals motives behind their evildoing would take away a lot from their uniqueness, and more generally, Avatar’s uniqueness as a franchise.”

“Like, what happened to villains who wanted to do evil just because?”

I agree with the sentiment that the trend of making every villain complicated might have gone too far, and that sometimes it is better to have uncomplicated villains who do evil just because.

But Avatar is a not a franchise with uncomplicated characters for the most part, as seen with not only the existence of characters with Hama and Jet, but also the inordinate amount of time the narrative spends humanizing the Fire Nation, even though it would have been very easy to paint them as ontologically evil.

So, by giving Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin motives for their evildoing beyond having ASPD, it wouldn’t take away from their uniqueness, or the Avatar franchise’s uniqueness in general, but in fact enhance it.

“Ok, writing Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin as not having ASPD wouldn’t ruin their characters, but what if I want them to have ASPD because it would enhance Avatar’s story.”

“Or more specifically, by writing those four as having ASPD, it would allow audiences to learn how to recognize those suffering from ASPD, or at least the malignant version of it, and learn how to deal with their behavior. And more generally, that not everyone’s issues can be solved with love and/or therapy, and that some people have to be taken down permanently for the good of society, or at least removed from society.”

In regards to the idea that writing Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin as having ASPD because it could teach audiences how to deal with people having ASPD, at least the malignant version, I would agree that be a good idea, if Avatar had a good track record of portraying mental health issues.

This is because Azula after Sozin’s Comet, or at least during her appearances in the pre-Faith Erin Hicks comics, is supposed to be suffering from split personality disorder.

However, as seen by the contentious discourse on what, if any, mental disorders Azula is suffering from, it is clear that they did not do a good job of showing that Azula was suffering from a split personality disorder.

In fact, there is a Word of Statement, one that is supported by various allusions in the post-Sozin’s Comet comics, that Azula and her fellow Fire Warriors were abused in their asylums, yet there is little to no time spent focusing on how their experiences informed their behavior.

So I am skeptical that they would be able to properly show all the symptoms and co-morbidities associated with ASPD, and not just rely on and perpetuate stereotypes like they did with Azula and the Fire Warriors.

Also, just because Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin don’t have ASPD doesn’t mean their issues could be solved with love and/or therapy, or that social sanitation couldn’t be practiced in regards to them.

For not every troubled individual has ASPD, nor does everyone who committed heinous crimes worthy of being jailed for life have ASPD, so why can’t Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Azulon be treated like those people?

“Ok, but what if I want Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin to have ASPD because I fear that giving them any nuance would be akin to excusing their crimes and abusive behavior and pressure Bryke into redeeming them, or at least suggesting they could have been redeemed in Azulon and Sozin’s cases?”

Just because there is an explanation for why the four Fire Nation Royals did horrible things wouldn't justify them, nor would it excuse anything.

For Sozin would still be the man who betrayed his best friend, turned his only son into a genocidal warlord, brainwashed his subjects into waging a genocidal war of conquest and imperialism, and responsible for the Airbender Genocide.

Azulon would still be the man who continued his father’s genocidal war of conquest and imperialism, turned both of his kids into genocidal warlords, responsible for the Southern Waterbender Genocide, had Ursa kidnapped and raped so his bloodline’s continued rule would be assured, and condoned Ozai’s abuse of both his children.

Ozai would still be the man who continued his forefathers’ genocidal war of conquest and imperialism, abused his wife and kids, murdered his father and usurped his older brother after coercing his wife to do the former for him, and attempted to genocide the Earth Kingdom.

And Azula would still be girl who conquered the Earth Kingdom, abused her brother and “friends,” murdered Aang, aided and abetted her father’s efforts to genocide the Earth Kingdom, attempted to kill her mother, brother, “friend,” and uncle, kidnapped a bunch of children, including her half-sister, and is currently engaged in domestic terrorism.

Moreover, just because there is an explanation for their evil beyond ASPD doesn’t mean that any of Azula, Ozai, Azulon, or Sozin have to be redeemed or have it be suggested that they could have been redeemed.

For just like The Avatar and the Fire Lord made clear (in my opinion) that just because Sozin felt guilty for betraying Roku and starting the Hundred Year War didn’t make him redeemable, there is nothing preventing Azulon remaining the unrepentant monster who was slain by the monster he created, Ozai spending the rest of his life seething in his cell, or Azula remaining a domestic terrorist incapable or unwilling to engage in self-reflection before the Gaang finally stops her for good beyond Bryke’s desires.

So to conclude, I don’t think there is anything wrong with seeing Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and/or Sozin having ASPD, and in fact, I think there are strong arguments to support such a view.

But what I am saying is that writing them as having ASPD is a bad storytelling choice since it ruins or weakens their ability to serve as narrative foils, eliminates potentially more complicated reasons for why the Fire Nation waged the Hundred Year War, as well the complex, engaging stories the franchise can tell of Zuko and his descendants’ ongoing struggles to reform the Fire Nation, and would be inconsistent with the franchise’s stance on the nurture versus nature debate.

And at the end of day, isn’t the Avatar franchise at its best when it is telling stories with engaging narratives and complex characters, even if the conflict is black and white?

[a-kinda-nerdy-girl]

Listen I'm not usually patriotic, unless it's the olympics and american women are freaking killing it. Then I basically turn into a bald eagle.

[ageofartemis]

It's tiring, arguing with foreign dignitaries. Even after replacing the Fire Nation ones to people loyal to him meaning he at least doesn't have to argue with them as well, it's difficult. Chief Hakoda tries to work with him, at least, and the Northern Water Tribe delegation isn't usually actively working against him, but the various Earth Kingdom ambassadors are hell to deal with.

"At least our Kingdoms aren't ruled by insane, child abusing tyrants," one of the more temperamental Earth Kingdom men hisses at the Fire Nation woman he's arguing with. The entire room falls silent. Zuko's head snaps towards the man, gaze intense. Hakoda is already half out of his seat, ready for a possible fight. The servants have frozen. Once the shock wears off, the Fire Nation people look furious. They're proud and loyal people, after all.

Zuko, after taking a few measured breaths, asks, "Are you implying something?"

He doesn't understand how the conversation devolved like this. All he'd done was tell one of the scribes to make a note that he'll need to talk with his ministers about changing something else to the mandatory coursework for the schools. The man had muttered something about the Fire Nation not caring about its children and the woman had taken offence.

"If I may, Your Highness?" the servant next to him, a young girl not much older than him, asks quietly. Zuko nods his consent. "The Fire Nation regards children as gifts from Agni himself. They are to be nourished, loved and protected at all cost. What Ozai did would have led to a civil war, had the greater public ever found out."

"Do not speak on issues you have no knowledge of," the woman who'd originally been arguing added viciously. "Ozai was a cruel and despicable man as were Azulon and Sozin. As were most of the high ranking officers in our military. But they were chosen specifically for their ruthlessness and lack of soul, and do not represent our nation at its core. We are proud and sometimes angry people, but we are also kind and warm."

[yeyayeya]

I was talking to someone about Scárthur and this is basically how I view them (I wanted to share) cause why not

My reason for shipping them was primarily because of their fathers, but I later thought about shipping them. I like to think that someone like Arthur, whose mind is constantly filled with revenge, would let loose around someone as calm as Scáthach. Also, they would help each other in battle, with one of them being a sword fighter and the other being a mage, they would cover each others weaknesses. They’re also older brothers, so they would understand the need to protect their younger sisters (tho they have very different dynamics with them). Scáthach would always remind Arthur to take care of himself, and Scáthach can even break from the facade of being mature to being silly with Arthur. They would balance each other out

I love my rarepair so much I need to write about them (I should finish that fic I was working on lol)

[into-the-very-fires-of-mordor]

maturing is looking back at your old story ideas, opening a time travel one you were really excited about, and then realizing it was a saving baby hitler idea because you were saddened by the idea that anyone would kill a baby, even if that baby was hitler

[blluespirit]

I sort of like the thought that Zuko and Aang take the Sun Warriors' warning not to tell anyone about the dragons a little more seriously… and they keep it between them. Of course, they trust Sokka, Toph and Katara. Of course they know they wouldn’t tell anyone, but now three people (including Iroh) know the truth about Ran and Shaw. And that’s three too many when you’re trying to keep a secret.

(and there are other people at the temple as well - like Haru, Teo and The Duke - who, while trustworthy, aren’t as close to them as the others, and when it comes to secrets with as much consequence as this one, you can’t afford to take any chances.)

Furthermore, the culture within the Fire Nation since Sozin’s rein has been warped. The culture is not to respect the dragons as the original firebenders, it’s to conquer and kill them. It’s the ultimate proof of your strength as a firebender. All it takes is one mistake before rumour spreads, and people go looking for the ultimate hunt. It’s not something Zuko or Aang can risk.

Whether Katara, Toph and Sokka (and Suki) ever find out the truth is up to you. But post-war, after Zuko returns from a strange, poorly explained trip with a dragon, and eventually develops the ability to use rainbow fire, either the others have some questions about Aang’s knowing look, or they are finally let in on a monumental secret.

[sirenalpha]

The Fire Nation is not fascist

words have meanings and you should use them correctly even when applying them to fiction

not all authoritarian governments are fascist even when militarized and just because you don't like that government that doesn't automatically make it fascist

the Fire Nation in the time of atla is more akin to the British Empire as it was an industrializing colonial empire than any fascist regime, Sozin's comments prior to the war harken more to white man's burden than fascism

that's also a very bad thing, you can just say that and be accurate, you don't have to reach for fascism

there are multiple ways you can look at the Fire Nation as it is portrayed within atla and see that it is not fascist

the Fire Nation is an absolute monarchy

fascist regimes are dictatorships

the Fire Nation has never had a period of democracy

fascist regimes are post democratic often initially winning power through democratic elections

the Fire Nation has no corporations, as far as can be assumed from the show everything related to industrialization might just be owned by the state (military)/the monarchy from all the ship building rigs to the factory blown up in The Painted Lady, the only people who might even be merchants are the Bei Fongs but they're still nobles so potentially all their wealth is from their land and holdings not through trade, the Fire Nation could genuinely just still be feudal and have an underdeveloped merchant class if everything trade related is getting funneled through the military/state

fascist regimes are extremely corporatist, they don't believe in public ownership, public goods, public services, anything that can be sold off to corporations and private interest will be, they go for extreme privitization

I think you could even argue that the Fire Nation is not industrialized enough to be fascist either, when the gaang is traveling through the Fire Nation it's basically as rural and pre-industrial as the Earth Kingdom there's like one factory in all of the Fire Nation, and even the Caldera seems pretty pre-industrial, there are no factories, no modern housing/aprtment buildings, no smog and pollution, only the military seems to be industrialized at all with tanks, metal ships, air balloons, and jet skis

and if you take a more ideological lens and compare it to Eco's Ur-Fascism while whether the Fire Nation meets the requirements are more debatable on some of his 14 points than others based on what you can assume from what is shown, others are outright impossible in the Fire Nation and atla world, and some the Fire Nation straight up doesn't meet the requirements for (the ones I don't mention here you can assume the FN does meet them enough though again some are more debatable than others)

-rejection of modernism

this is impossible in the Fire Nation and atla because as far as we can tell there is no period of Enlightenment or even a modernism to reject and you could maybe even argue the Fire Nation might be the ones embracing anything approaching modernism as they were the ones to hire the mechanist but that's very little proof to go on especially as it's for the war machine which is one technology fascists do go for

-appeal to a frustrated middle class

again no corporation or move to capitalism or any merchants or businessmen, hard to say a middle class even exists in the Fire Nation, there's a middle ring in Ba Sing Se but the Fire Nation seems split between nobles and commoners with no middle ground

-obsession with a plot

so I wouldn't say the Fire Nation has no obsession with a plot as they're doing the whole white man's burden equivalent and wanting to 'share their greatness' with the world but the plot fascists are obsessed with are internal enemies aka being anti-semitic and suspicious of Jewish people and while yes the Fire Nation tells lies about Air Nomads they're all convinced every single one of them are dead, they're not internal enemies, there are no internal enemies of the Fire Nation and this ties into the next point

-at the same time too strong and too weak

because there's no internal enemies to stamp out and be fearful of and they're winning a global war, there's no sense from the Fire Nation that they think they're too strong and too weak, they only think they are strong, so strong in fact as to be deserving of ruling the world, this is Azula's entire argument for her coup in Ba Sing Se, she as a member of Fire Nation royalty has the divine right to rule that is unquestionable

-machismo

now I'm not saying there's no sexism in the Fire Nation, they're clearly led by men in the monarchy military and in organized religion, but they might be the least sexist of the existing nations aside from Kyoshi, the Water Tribes obviously have sexism as exhibited by the male power structure, arranged marriages, and preventing female waterbenders from gaining martial skill, the Earth Kingdom in atla only shows male rulers whether kings or Dai Li and Toph's the only female earthbender and she learned it so far outside the system she didn't even learn from a human and their military is also entirely male, the Fire Nation however has female soldiers and guards, teaches female firebenders to bend and female nonbenders can also learn martial skill, and yeah Azula and her friends might just be getting lee way as nobles but literally no one belittles them or remarks upon it in anyway whereas Katara and Toph are definitely remarked upon (though Toph not solely for being a girl)

also Fire Nation noble teen girls can casually date like I get it's a kid's show and maybe they're not thinking deeply on this but they made it explicit that Yue was already betrothed and could not casually date at around the same age Azula, Ty Lee, and Mai are casually dating or trying to date without any mention of betrothals or arranged marriages and without any apparent risk to their personal reputations (yes Mai's dating Zuko is politically and likely financially advantageous to her family or could potentially have been spurred by Azula to keep track of Zuko but as far as we know from canon this is entirely Mai's choice and is in fact casual dating)

-selective populism

the Fire Nation royalty do not give a shit about the will of the people, their positions are for them and to be used how they wish to use them, they do not see themselves as the interpreter of popular will because they don't need it for legitimacy and authority in place of a democratically elected government, they are monarchs with a divine right to rule in a world of other monarchs

-newspeak

there's no evidence the Fire Nation employs this at all, they lie sure especially about the Air Nomads, but they don't invent new jargon to limit critical thinking (they kinda don't need to Ozai and Azula are abusive and manipulative enough on their own they can do it with normal language)

the Fire Nation just does not match the profile of a fascist regime enough ideologically or otherwise to be comfortably calling it fascist or treat it as a matter of fact in fandom

and if you're going to make the argument well they just couldn't show you everything like multiple factories and corporations or a middle class in the Fire Nation due to time limits so actually you can safely assume it is fascist

no, anything beyond what they DID show is headcanon and what IS canon does not lend itself to an argument that the Fire Nation actually is fascist

the monarchy, lack of democracy ever, and what Fire Nation characters have said about the country and its stated goals are canon and point towards an industrializing colonial empire that's not as sexist as it could be

[zincbot]

man i think the amon plotline is just kind of weak in terms of world building

[rtlstuff]

I understand that Avatar was a kids show so they had to skirt around talking about murder and all the atrocities of war. However when I'm reading an Explicit fanfiction that heavily describes villains doing murder, torture and violation, it just becomes pathetic when the good guys don't meet it with equal force.

If you know a man is going to violate and murder someone innocent, you don't fight that by smacking them with a water whip, you shoot icicles through their eyes into their brains. You don't throw a baseball sized rock at someone's back, you pancake their head between two boulders. There are many effective ways that bending would be brutal and near unstoppable but instead I'm reading a fic where they might as well be using the equivalent of water pistols to fight soldiers.

[justfirelordizumithings]

I’ve JUST become aware of the new info we got on Fire Lord Izumi and the historical build up to the One Hundred Year War from the Avatar Legends: Roleplaying Game core book. I have no so much catching up I need to do. 🥹