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#redeeming villains
snippetsnitch · 8 months
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(lmao, I'm back again and I won't even try to make promises I can't keep 😂 Many thanks to @kaiwewi who added me in the masterlist of @the-modern-typewriter for hero/villain blogs! 🥰 I think I can speak for all the inactive and partially active people when I say: We are very touched that people see our small contributions and think of us... It really means a lot. 🥰🙏🏻 So, please enjoy this snippet and have a good time. 😄)
#13 – Shame
Can I ask you something, [Villain]?
– Um.. Sure, what is it?
How did you end up working for [Supervillain]? You must've known that they were evil, haven't you? So what in the world brought you there?
– ...
Jesus, who cares about that, [Sidekick]? They've done more than enough to show us that we can trust them. Hey, [Villain], you don't have to share things you don't wanna talk about, okay?
– I..- Um, thank you, [Hero]...
"You know, [Sidekick] was right", [Villain] said, their eyes fixated on the ground. They had sat down next to [Hero] a few minutes ago, feeling the cool summer breeze that grazed their own skin and the one of their new teammate. "I've known all along."
[Hero] looked at their former foe in confusion. "What do you mean?", they asked, turning towards them.
"I knew who [Supervillain] was", [Villain] said with a hollow voice, "...What they did."
[Hero] frowned. "[Villain] you don't have to talk about this, if you don't want to. [Sidekick] shouldn't have said that an-"
"But they were right", [Villain] interrupted, "I must've known who they were and I did. I knew who they were. I knew everything and I joined them regardless."
[Villain] pulled their knees closer, resting their chin on them. Their expression became distant as they started talking: "You know, before I joined [Supervillain], my life was a mess. I grew up in a world that didn't have any mercy for weaklings or outsiders like me. I was hurt, angry and alone and I wanted nothing more than to be with someone who actually liked me. I wanted to belong somewhere... I wanted that feeling you and your friends experienced every day and seemingly took as a given."
[Hero] suppressed the urge to say something. They had not at all expected this kind of talk from their former enemy – especially not with them. Still, they nodded seriously to encourage [Villain] to keep talking. It seemed to work:
"I... I didn't even know that I was searching for something. I didn't know how desperately I wanted to feel needed... Useful, you know?", [Villain] let out a trembling sigh. They closed their eyes before they continued: "I didn't know that, but [Supervillain] did. It was easy for them to bait me with the interest they showed in me and my abilities. I knew that what they did was wrong, but I-.. I just thought if I worked hard enough for them, then at least someone would see something in me... That I could-", [Villain] pressed their eyes together as tears started to spill,
"Oh, Villain...", [Hero] murmured softly. They reached out to gently touch the other one's shoulder, but [Villain] pulled away.
"Don't." [Villain] whispered and wiped their tears away. They took a deep breath. Their face had hardened into a blank mask when they continued:
"[Hero], I don't deserve the place you offer me. I don't deserve to be in your and the team's presence. I don't deserve the kindness you gave me since I came here. I'm not worth-"
"[Villain], stop." [Hero] had put a warm hand on [Villains] wet cheek. The softness of the gesture startled [Heros] new partner who looked at them with wide eyes. [Hero] managed a small smile before pulling [Villain] into a warm embrace.
"Don't say things like that. You're here, because you did what was right. You came to us and helped us out, because you knew what [Supervillain] does is wrong. Because you couldn't bear it. That says a lot about you as a person.", [Hero] gave [Villain] a small squeeze before letting go. They put their hands on [Villains] face again and smiled as they locked eyes with their former enemy.
"You did some bad things and you need to take on responsibility for that, but you won't have to do that alone. You are with us now and we will support you, okay?"
[Villain] shook their head in confusion. "H-How can you take me in... Just like that?", they whispered while new tears stained their face and [Heros] fingers, "How could anyone possibly want me after I what I've done?"
To that, [Hero] knew the answer.
"I can, because I like you. Because we like you, [Villain]. Because you're worth staying and because you have good inside of you... Because you chose the light, even though your life was set up for darkness." [Hero] said warmly. They smiled at [Villains] unbelieving expression, before embracing them once again.
"...One day, you will see that, too."
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spacecadetnovelist · 2 years
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Just a moment of your time....
I had a reply to a comment I made about "Forever After"'s first chapter with the webtoon's main protagonist visiting the Beauty and the Beast story as Beauty and finding the webtoon's main antagonist having hijacked the role of the Beast.
So, of course, everyone who was already on the enemies-to-lovers ship was super excited. I'm on the fence, but that's a different post. For context, here's my comment:
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A few supportive and/or discussion-invoking replies later, and I get this:
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Like, I appreciate in my children's movies: bad guys are bad, good guys are good. It's a simplified version of story telling for minds that are still developing, but LIFE isn't like that, and adult story telling can be emblematic of that if the person telling it so chooses.
Beyond just the immaturity of the belief, I'm increasingly horrified by the reasoning behind it the more I think about it:
Villains don't deserve compassion.
Villains don't deserve compassion??????
So, by this logic because people do things that are perceived as bad, they can't ever deserve redemption? what if they aren't actually villains and it's only the point of view of the storyteller that makes them the antagonist?
even if they are villains, if they accept they are wrong and actively do everything in their power to correct their mistakes or bad choices, they can't be considered human enough to warrant compassion?
By withholding compassion, you may end up as villainous as the (subjectively) attractive people you are condemning. Denying compassion doesn't make the other person less human, only the one denying it.
As a HUGE supporter of "don't like, don't read": if you don't think there are morals and you don't agree with the art style and character designs, why are you here? so you can shake your head and wag your finger? there have to be more mentally healthy things for you to spend your time on. hate takes so much energy.
Like, I'm not telling you to get lost because I don't like you, I'm saying you should spend time on things that make you happy, not read two full seasons of a comic that has strong tendencies to utilize things you claim you don't like.
Furthermore, this is like saying someone who abused their spouse should "die". If that person realized the horror of what they had done, faced justice and punishment, was genuinely remorseful, apologized without expectation, and never did such a horrible thing again... does that person not deserve to go on living and improving?
NO, none of this will EVER make what they did "okay" by any standard. NO, their victim should not be required to forgive their transgressions NOR have to accept them back into their life, but why shouldn't that reflective, remorseful, and growing person go on with their own life and hopefully make better choices? Why should they instead "die" instead of proving themselves capable of redeeming themselves (or by higher power if one is inclined to believe in one)?
I AM a firm believer that there are some evils in this world that are beyond redemption but primarily because those evils don't usually desire or seek true redemption, let alone accomplish it. True redemption isn't just apologizing itself or even simply regretting what was done, it's realizing your mistakes, facing the consequences, making amends, correcting your behavior, and moving on from the person you were when you made that mistake.
There is a reason people love redemption arcs: we all want to believe that we can be forgiven and deserving of life and love even though we aren't perfect.
Truthfully, no one is perfect, and if the sum of our imperfections makes us less worthy of deserving compassion, how can we be expected to learn how to act instead? If we stop offering compassion, does that not count as doing something bad that would then, in turn, make us less deserving ourselves?
This just seems like a really sad perspective and outcome to expect or demand from life or from story telling.
As far as having a problem with "attractive" villains (again, attractiveness is subjective based on the POV of the person perceiving said villain)... It circles back around to what I think is the immaturity of the person who replied that way.
Yes, ideally, people would be as ugly as they are rotten. It's not how it works. Pretty people are bad, ugly people are good, pretty people are good, ugly people are bad.... It's all down to the person. Beauty and the Beast is, actually, a perfect example of taking the ideal and making it easy for children to understand:
The beast was once a boy who was mean and nasty so he turned into a monster that was awful to look at. Then he met a girl who inspired him to be good. He came to love her and his goodness and love allowed him to return to being human so they could live happily ever after.
Making an antagonist (who is increasingly more of a gray character rather than black and white) attractive and setting them opposite to the protagonist adds what adults call sexual tension and audiences love that, especially in comics that have more than one potential love interest... That's just storytelling (and marketing).
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ilynpilled · 27 days
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not the first person to say this but the main thing for female villains when it comes to thriving to make them more multifaceted and dimensional and empathetic for an audience being “but she loved her children… but she wouldve done everything for her children…” drives me up the fucking wall. the men do not get this same treatment at all. there is so fucking much other shit you can do to make these characters sympathetic
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bet-on-me-13 · 1 year
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Reformed Dan but misunderstandings suck
So, Dan has been Reformed for Years at this point. You could go with the Fandom Typical version of just chilling out, or you could go with the AGIT version of the Redemption. Either way, Dan is fully reformed and trying to find his way in the World.
Unfortunately, not everybody knows/believes him.
You know all those Time Traveling Heroes who came back to stop some great catastrophe? That was Dan.
Impulse is fucking terrified of this guy, cause he Grew Up in the Central City Stronghold and saw Phantom tear down the Walls protecting the City in person.
Booster Gold grew up in the Metropolis Stronghold, so while he never really saw Phantom in his timeline he still did know of him. I mean, obviously, he murdered every hero on the planet and subjugated most of the world, but he doesn't have much personal stake in that.
Eobard Thawn hates Phantom. Thawn himself grew up in a world where Phantom killed every Hero in the world, and he was terrified that Phantom would track him down when he tried to become the new Flash. But once he became a Walking Paradox he saw as Time itself changed to erase Phantom from existence, he got really jealous. Why did Time decide Phantom was bad enough to erase, why not him!? He's Evil! He's a Terror on the Timeline! He deserves Clockworks attention dammit!
And then, they discover evidence that Phantom has come back in Time,
So now, any and all Time Travelers are trying to find the guy who single-handedly was the Apocalypse, and want to kill him to save the world. Or out of Jealousy in Thawns case.
Either way, no matter where Dan goes to try and settle down, a bunch of annoying Heroes always find him and attack him, yelling about "Stopping his Plans" and "Saving the Timeline!" And "It should have been me dammit!"
Honestly Thawn is the most annoying one, he just runs in and rants at him about how he is jealous of how much attention Clockwork gave him. Dude, just sdmit your crush already and leave me alone. (I'm not sorry)
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bixels · 11 months
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(Sunset!) Sunset!
Have you always been alone?
(Sunset!) Sunset!
Have you never loved again?
Some design sketches for Sunset, the Witch of Fire, the Flame of the West. A leaf in the wind, she travels from town to town with her trusty steed Shimmer, bringing trouble wherever they go.
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I think it would be cool to see a Jewish redeemed villain character where part of their redemption is asking for forgiveness on Yom Kippur
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vaggieslefteye · 2 months
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ᴍᴀᴋᴇ ᴍᴇ ᴄʜᴏᴏꜱᴇ ↳ anonymous asked: HUSK and ALASTOR or angel and valentino?
#hazbin hotel#husk#hazbin husk#alastor#hazbin alastor#hazbin hotel edit#hazbin edit#radio demon#requested#make me choose#my gifs#dad beat dad#flashing gif#flickering gif#the full ask said ''in whichever way you define'' at the end so#i chose based off of which dynamic i'm more intrigued by. valentino as a villain and as a challenge to angel is REALLY interesting dont get#me wrong here. it's great. but THESE two have a lot of untapped potential for husk specifically#alastor is just there at the moment but HUSK. husk. it really is a mirror to angel's situation - everything wrong in his afterlife is#because of that gamble. but he WAS an overlord. HE was the one doing that horrible shit before. that's INTERESTING!!#he gathered and gambled away souls like money. it was all just a game to him. now HE'S getting his. a sick poetic justice in a way.#i am SO excited to see if they dive into this more!! will he ever self reflect? if he does will we SEE him doing this reflection? will it#be enough to play a part in him choosing to redeem himself? or even decide if redemption is worth the effort? i feel like there's potential#with his dynamic with alastor to influence that big time + his friendship with angel will also be a major factor#also making this set made me realize the hallway scene is like their one major interaction. jfc and it's fucking HORRIFYING lmao#look i loved their pilot interaction/dynamic as much as the next person but this is just. SO much better. more things to explore.#i'm really glad in the end that they were rewritten in this way. A+
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izunias-meme-hole · 4 months
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Vegeta Appreciation Post
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lord-squiggletits · 7 months
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I think the key component to my personal reading of post-Delphi Pharma is that he's trying to be a horrible person on purpose. Not "on purpose" in the way that people have free will to exercise their own choices, but in that Pharma's "mad doctor" persona is a performance he puts on to deliberately embrace how much everyone else hates him. Basically, if people already think you're a "bad Autobot" and a horrible doctor who just kills his patients for fun, why try to prove otherwise to people who have already made up their minds about you? Just fully embrace the fact that people see you as an asshole. Don't try to change their minds. Don't plead for their forgiveness or understanding. Just stop caring. If you're going to be remembered as a monster, you might as well be a memorable monster, and eke as much pleasure and hedonism as you can out of it before karma catches up to you and you inevitably crash and burn.
I mean, I guess you could just go the route of "Oh, Pharma was always a fucked up creepy guy and Delphi was just him taking the mask off," but I really don't like that interpretation because, for one, it feels really wrong to take a character like Pharma becoming evil under duress and going, "Oh well clearly he did the things he did because he was evil all along," as if somehow Pharma breaking under blackmail/torture/threat of horrible death was a sign of him having poor moral character. As opposed to, you know, suffering under the very real threat of horrible death for himself and everyone he cares about while being manipulated by a guy who specializes in psychological torture.
The second reason is that it just doesn't make sense to write Pharma as having been evil all along. I mean...
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Occam's Razor says that the best argument is the one with the simplest explanation. Doesn't it make way more sense to take Pharma's appearances in flashbacks, his friendship with Ratchet, his stunning medical accomplishments, and the few we see of him speaking kindly/sympathetically (or in the least charitable interpretation, at least professionally) towards his patients and conclude "This guy was just a normal person, if exceptionally talented." Taking all of these flashback appearances at face value and assuming Pharma was being genuine/honest is a way simpler and more logical explanation than trying to argue that Pharma for the past 4 million years was just faking being a good doctor/person. I mean, it's possible within the realm of headcanon, but the fact is Pharma's appearances in the story are so brief that there simply wasn't room in the story for there to be some sort of secret conspiracy/hidden manipulation behind why Pharma acted the way he did in the past.
I just can't help but look at things like Pharma's friendship with Ratchet (himself a good person and usually a fine judge of character) and the fact that even post-Delphi, pretty much every single mention of Pharma comes with some mention of "He was a good doctor for most of his life" or "He was making major headways in research [before he started killing patients]" which implies that even the Autobots themselves see Pharma's villainy as a recent turn in his life compared to how for "most of his life" he "used to be" a good doctor.
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And although Pharma doesn't know this, we as the readers (and even other characters like Rung) know about Aequitas technology and the fact that it actually works, so... if Pharma really was an unrepentant murderer, why couldn't he get through the forcefield too? The Aequitas forcefield doesn't require that a person be completely morally pure and free of wrongdoing or else how could Tyrest get through, just that they feel a sense of inner peace and lack feelings of guilt. Pharma has murdered and tortured people by this point, and put on quite a campy and theatrical show of how much he sees it as a fun game, so why then can he not get through?
It circles back to my headcanon at the start of this post that the "mad doctor" persona is just that-- a persona. Delphi/post-Delphi Pharma's laughing madman personality is just so far removed from every flashback we saw of him and everything we can infer based on how other people see/saw him before that, to me, the mad doctor act is (at least in large part, if not fully) a persona that Pharma puts on to put his villainy in the forefront.
To avoid an overly simplistic/ableist take, I don't think Tarn tortured Pharma into turning crazy. To me, it's more like the constant pressure of death by horrific torture, the feeling of martyrdom as Pharma kept secret that he was the only one standing between Delphi and annihilation, the physical isolation of Messatine as well as the emotional separation from Ratchet, being forced to violate his medical oaths (pretty much the only thing Pharma's entire life has been about), etc. All of that combined traumatized Pharma to the point that the only way he could avoid cracking was to just stop caring about all of it. Because at least then, even if he's still murdering patients to save Delphi from a group of sadistic freaks, Pharma doesn't have to feel guilty and sick about doing it. As opposed to the alternatives, which were probably either going off the deep end and killing himself to escape, or confessing to what he did and getting jailed for it.
In that light, Pharma becoming a mad doctor makes sense. It avoids the bad writing tropes of "oh this character who was good his entire life was actually just evil and really good at hiding it" as well as "oh he got tortured and went crazy that's why he's so random and silly and killing people, he's crazy" and instead frames Pharma's evil as something he was forced into, to the point where in order to avoid a full psychological breakdown and keep defending Delphi, he just had to stop caring about the sanctity of life or about what other people might think of him.
Then, of course, the actual Delphi episode happens, and Pharma's own lifelong best friend Ratchet basically spits in his face and sees him as nothing more than a crazy murderer who went rogue from being a good Autobot. Then Pharma gets his hands cut off and left to die on Messatine. At that point, Pharma has not only been mentally/emotionally broken into losing his feelings of compassion, he's received the message loud and clear: He is alone. Everyone hates him. Not even his own best friend likes him any more. No one even cared enough about him to check if he actually died or not. He will only ever be remembered as a doctor who went insane and killed his patients.
So in the light of 1. Having all of your redeeming qualities be squeezed out of you one by one for the sake of survival and 2. Having your reputation and all of your positive relationships be destroyed and 3. People only know/care about you as "that doctor who became evil and killed his patients" rather than the millions of years of good service that came before.
What else is there to do but internalize the fact that you'll forever be seen as a monster and a freak, and embrace it? People already see you as a murderer for that blackmail deal you did, so why not become an actual murderer and just start killing people on a whim? People already see you as an irredeemable monster who puts a stain on the Autobot name, so why beg for their forgiveness when you could just shun them back? You've already become a murderer, a traitor, and a horrible doctor, so what's a few more evil acts added to the pile? It's not like anyone will ever forgive you or love you ever again.
Why care? Why try to hold on to your principles of compassion, kindness, medical ethics, when an entire lifetime of being a good person did nothing to save you from blackmail and then abandonment? Why put yourself through the emotional agony of feeling lonely, guilty, miserable, when you could just... stop caring, and not hurt any more?
#squiggposting#pharma apologism#i'm sure the doylist reason for the writing is just that pharma was a designated villain#so since he's a villain and 'crazy' it's fine for everyone even the good guys to treat him like complete trash#i just think from a watsonian perspective taking a sympathetic approach is way more interesting and logically consistent#what i mean is like. from a meta perspective one of the best ways to show that a character is super evil and not worth saving#is when even the good guy heroes. the ones who are supposed to be kind and compassionate and wise. see him as dirt#and this is also kind of a necessity in most plots bc TF is the kind of series that just needs action villains and long-term antagonists#so not every villain is written or has a plot to be made redeemable. and pharma is one of these bc he's not important or a legacy character#so from a doylist (meta) perspective you could read the autobots' disregard of pharma as a sign of#'this guy is not meant to have your sympathy as a reader. pay no attention to him'#but from a watsonian (in universe) perspective it paints a miserable picture of pharma being utterly forsaken by the ppl he served alongsid#and like yeah i'm super autistic about pharma so of course i view him with sympathy but like#the idea of being a loyal and good person for years only to be subjected to a Torment Nexus of#being blackmailed into breaking all of the oaths you held sacred. under threat of you and all your comrades dying horrible torturous deaths#then when your comrades find out about it they focus solely on the 'harvesting organs' and not on the 'blackmail' part#and then you get literally left for dead by your comrades and best friend hating your guts#and then you get rescued by a guy who uses you as a test subject for his evil machine#this is a fucking nightmare scenario like pharma could hardly be suffering more if the author TRIED to make him suffer#and for me it's like. the evil pharma did can't be decontextualized to what drove him to that. as well as the question of like#how easily ppl can write someone off as evil and turn a blind eye to (or even find satisfaction in) their suffering bc theyre evil#and either brought it on themselves or it's just karma paying a visit#like. i feel like if pharma WERE a shitty doctor and a terrible person his whole life then the delphi situation would feel like karma#but the way it's written and the lore retroactively put in makes it feel more pharma getting thrown in a torture carousel#and THEN becoming evil. but then being treated as if he was always evil or was some sort of bad apple#bc like i'm not opposed to LOLing when a villain gets a karmic torture/death related to the wrongs they committed#but in pharma's case it feels less like karma and more like endless torture + being abandoned by ppl who should have been more loyal
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braisedhoney · 1 year
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we’re supposed to be the good guys.
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kathrahender · 17 days
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Some people always get angry when a villain is redeemed. They say things like "Stop redeeming the villain" "Villain redemption is such a terrible trope" "Not all villains deserve redemption" "Villains redemption are ruining media" "You are afraid of villanous characters because you can't bear people making mistakes" "Villain redemption is toxic/unhealthy" "You shouldn't try to fix someone!" and- Well- I have to talk about this because I seriously don't understand why people don't want to accept villains redemption.
"Villain redemption is such a terrible trope" "Villains redemption are ruining media". No, it's not a bad trope. Is not ruining media. It's an awesome trope, a wholesome trope, and I'm gonna say why. A villain redemption means nothing more than a person realizing they did bad things. It means a villain becoming a better person, a villain leaving the Dark Side because humanity and honor were more important than evilness and cruelty for them. And that's a beautiful concept. A villain becoming good? A villain who stops being bad because after all, they have a good side, because they are human? Where's the bad thing there? Where's the bad thing in realizing how much pain you've caused, and changing your morals for good? Seriously, people who hate villains redemption, where's the problem in this trope?
"Not all villains deserve redemption". Again with this tiring argument. When will you understand it? A villain redemption is not based on if they deserve it or not. It's based on the villain himself. It's based on their thoughts, on their morals. It's based on them changing from "I want to hurt/kill everyone who is against me" to "Oh God I'm a monster, what have I done?". Villains don't "deserve" redemption. They just redeem, or they don't, and it has nothing to do with "deserving" it. Some of you could think "Not all villains should be redeemed then!". I will talk about that argument in the last paragraph.
"You are afraid of villanous characters because you can't bear people making mistakes". That's definitely not true. That's bullshit. We're not afraid of people making mistakes. If that was true, we would be afraid of a hero making mistakes. And we aren't afraid of heroes who make mistakes. Because making mistakes makes you human. But- realizing you made a mistake also makes you human. That's what we like about this trope. A bad person, a villain or an anti-villain being actually human deep down.
"Villain redemption is toxic/unhealthy!" Actually- you know what's actually toxic? Hate. Hate is actually toxic. Hating someone is unhealthy. Of all the things you can do in your life, hating someone is the worst thing you can do. Why losing time hating when you can do better things for your heart and for your soul? Because the only thing you will get with hate is your heart/soul corrupted. A villain redeemed is not toxic nor unhealthy. Why a person changing for the better would be toxic or unhealthy?
"You shouldn't try to fix someone". Why? Why shouldn't I try to fix someone? Why shouldn't I want a bad person to turn good? Why shouldn't I want a villain becoming a hero? Why should I want the hate in this world to grow? Why should I want evilness to win? What you're saying doesn't make any sense. I want to fix villains because I believe in goodness! Because I want the good side to win! I want people having a happy ending, and the only way a villain can get a happy ending is being redeemed. And I want the villains to have a happy ending too because dying or getting tortured/being imprisioned after being suffering in your past is horrible. Yeah, I know villains hurt people, but some of them also were hurt, and although I don't justify them, I still want their pain to end and I want them to live, not just survive. I want them to change for the good, why is that so bad?
And even if they were "born evil" (what I doubt because for me villains are made not born) and "didn't suffered"- I want them to have a happy ending after redeeming because I want to believe in their goodness, in their humanity, and I don't want them to die because I think they also deserve a second chance in life and a chance to be happy (because if you can't be happy in this life, what's even the point?).
"But why would you want a villain having a happy ending after all they did????" Because I don't want them to suffer. "They made other people suffer, why would you want them to have a happy ending?" Because I believe no one deserves to have a bad ending in life. "So you defend the monsters in real life??? You support the real killers?? You are a murder apologist!!" Now hold on a fucking second. There's a fucking difference between liking a villain in fiction and want them to have a happy ending and want the real life villains to have a happy ending. Fiction is not fucking reality and you should know that. I want villains in fiction to redeem because I want to believe in their goodness, because I want to believe everyone is capable of being good, because I want to believe love and goodness can conquer all. Because I want to believe that no matter what, the good side will always win. Besides, most of the villains live in magic worlds, where sometimes death is not permanent, where you can see your loved ones even if it's not for a long time. And in fiction time-travel also exist. None of these things happen in reality. There's no magic, there's no time turner who can help you travel back in time to erase the villain's actions, there aren't Force Ghosts of your family or friends. Real life villains' actions are irrevocable and unforgivable. You can't bring back the dead because in this world once a person dies, that's the end of the line. But that doesn't happen in fiction. So stop comparing a real life villain actions with a fictional villain actions. They're not the same.
To end this post I want to say that the ones who like villains redemption (I'm a part of those people, of course) don't want all villains to be redeemed. There are villains we hate with all our heart, villains who are pure evil who doesn't deserve anything good. Villains like Gerard Argent, Dolores Umbridge, Sheev Palpatine, Captain Turner, Sebastian Shaw and Azulon. And more villains like those. So yeah, we do not want to see every villain redeemed.
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45gayfrogs · 27 days
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I’m so tired of people portraying Anakin Skywalker as a redeemable villain, I understand the want to, to see him as a character who can fix his mistakes and move on but by the end of Attack of the Clones he’s completely irredeemable. He’s not a kylo ren character who can be fixed with the right love, he’s a tragic character and that’s what makes him a great character and a great villain.
He starts out with good intentions but by the end he’s completely irredeemable, he doesn’t deserve Luke’s forgiveness at the end of Return of the Jedi
my favorite star wars movie poster is this phantom menace one
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and I like it so much because it really conveys what is so tragic about Anakin. when we first meet anakin in episode 1 we already know what he is too become he already know that this little boy who dreams of becoming a jedi to free the slaves will one day be a killer for an empire that allows and uses slave labor
Anakin does have genuinely good intentions at the start but that doesn’t matter because he will become a killing machine and as much as palpatine manipulates him, he choose to kill the younglings and be killed the sand people all on his own, no one told him to do that
Anakin is tragic because you want to root for him, you’re supposed to like his charm and sass in the clone wars show and that’s what makes it so much more heartbreaking when he does such horrible things. we get to understand to a degree what Ashoka and Obi-Wan and Padme felt seeing someone hey care about do things they know shouldn’t be forgiven
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the-badger-mole · 11 months
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On the Unredeemed
Unredeemed villains are important in fiction. I feel like that needs to be said. There is a trend in recent years (probably since Wicked became a hit) of people wanting to see monsters redeemed. I'm not against that (per-se... glowers in Maleficent), but also, I feel like we do lose something when we lean into the idea that the monster gets to make good.
Fiction can be really useful for teaching us about life. I remember seeing a quote some time ago on Pinterest or something that said something along the lines of "fairytales are important not because they tell us dragons are real, but because they tell us that dragons can be slayed". That has been on my mind a lot recently when I see discussions about characters like Azula and (more recently) Ozai. They are fictional characters with super magic fire powers, but they represent something real- they represent the cycle of abuse in families, and while I understand the impulse to absolve someone as young as Azula, I think it's also important to tell the story where she isn't redeemed.
One reason that most Azula redemption stories bother me is because of the responsibility they tend to place on Zuko as her older brother, despite the fact that she victimized him probably more than anyone in her life (that we get to see. I don't think her soldiers believed her death threat for no reason). There are plenty of stories about the victims of abuse needing to be the bigger person to keep their families together and being villainized when they don't (I think by now we all understand that Terri was not the villain of Soul Food). We need stories about knowing when it's okay to walk away, and that illustrate the idea that "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb".
In a time when more people are talking openly about going low contact or completely cutting off family members- close family members- I personally think that seeing stories about coming out of the other side of it, of building a new family, healing from the past, and dealing with the residual guilt that comes with "turning your back on family" even when it's the right call, is helpful in the same way that those fairytales about slayable dragons are.
I'm not saying any of this to discourage Azula redemption stories. In fact I would love to see more. Stories that have Azula confronting what she did to the people she should have loved most, and have her considering what to do with the knowledge going forward, instead of just using her past abuse and mental health to gloss over the real harm she did. I want to see her grappling to accept the fact that no one- not her brother, not Iroh, not her friends- owes her forgiveness, and then dealing with all the complex emotions that come with just one of them actually forgiving her. But also, I want to see stories where Zuko gets to let go of his father and sister and go on to be supported in that decision. Because to him, they were dragons, and they were slain.
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columboscreens · 7 months
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p01s0ngas · 1 month
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im actually fucking pissed the league of villains ended up like that. i spent the worst years of my childhood, my worst moments looking up to them, desiring what they had, that found family despite unaccepting, neglectful and abusive parents and a society that didnt want them, and i desperately wanted that, i wanted to be saved, i wanted a place in this world. and they were my place for a while. and now theyre gone. what was once my old home is gone. they deserved better.
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bixels · 5 months
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Cozy Glow is such an interesting litmus test for die-hard bronies. I was checking r/mlp to prep a post and there’s a discussion post about how she deserved what she got and. How do I tell bronies that children should not be tried as adults. How do I tell bronies that psychopaths and sociopaths deserve human rights and treatment and support. How do I tell bronies that cruel and unusual punishments are bad. How do I tell bronies that the death penalty is wrong. How do I tell bronies that a ruling body should not have absolute say over putting someone to death, least of all a 6-year-old child.
These are all my recent google searches.
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