#relationships discourse

[jeonscatalyst]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEiN7irRg-h/?igsh=MzRrbzI1NGthc2V1

Tom and Zendaya are so adorable❤. I wonder what it's like to have this kind of connection with someone, wish I could experience just once in my life.

Anyway there's a comment on the post that says "they are always so in sync. This is me and my sister" and someone replies that she and her brother and sister-in-law are the same. And it just made me think about all those anons who love coming onto people's blogs to tell them how they are wrong to think there's something romantic between Jimin and JK because "I do what they do with my brother/My sister and I always behave the same way."

Tomdaya are engaged to be married and there are strangers who compare the way they are with each other to how they are with their blood-related family..

This is what I've been trying to say since 2018; that a certain type of dynamic or bond or whatever you wanna call it can exist in many different types of relationships. Just because you watch Jimin and Jungkook and see some aspects in their relationship that remind you of the relationship you share with your sibling or friend, it still does NOT cancel out the possibility of Jimin and Jungkook being more than friends (and vice versa, of course). Friends, siblings, cousins, parents & their children, and LOVERS can ALL be in sync with one another, share the same unique sense of humour, always be lost in their own little world and finish each other's sentences. It's not only exclusive to one type of relationship.

I always find those anons so stupid and frustrating. And it's not only them, unfortunately. To this day you'll still find "this is like me and my brother, shippers are so weird for forcing a sexual/romantic relationship on these boys" comments under Jikook videos. Like okay you are siblings and you do that, but that doesn't mean it's the same for all other people who do it as well. Life doesn't work like that.

You could be right about them only being just like brothers (we don't know) but people should really stop try and stop judging the world based on their own personal lived experiences and thinking just because one thing is true for them that it's definitely a Universal truth.

Nope.

All of this anon! All of this!!!!

This is something I’ve said countless times. Relationships don’t follow a single, set dynamic. Some couples have a “best friend” energy, while others might even give off “sibling energy” depending on the day..and both are completely valid.

I find it amusing when people try to assign specific qualities to certain types of relationships, as if those traits are exclusive to particular relationships. For example, arguing that two people must be in a romantic relationship because they’re “soft” with each other, or dismissing others as not being romantic simply because they play fight or roughhouse, is far too simplistic.

If you’re viewing relationships in such a narrow, rigid way, it likely points to a lack of experience or maturity in understanding how human connections actually work. Relationships are nuanced, varied, and deeply personal…they rarely fit neatly into predefined boxes.

A single relationship can embody multiple dynamics that come to light at different times. Couples aren’t confined to always being soft and tender with each other, just as siblings aren’t limited to roughhousing or being playfully mischievous. These behaviors can exist in any type of relationship, regardless of its nature. Relationships are fluid and multifaceted, and it’s those variations that make them so rich and authentic. If some people still refuse to understand this, then I don’t know what else to say.

In many ways, I blame romance movies, novels, and the way the media has portrayed certain types of relationships for so long. A lot of people haven’t had the chance to witness or experience the wide range of dynamics that real relationships involve, so they latch onto these idealized versions and genuinely believe that’s how life and love are supposed to work.

This is why people are so quick to dismiss relationships as “less ideal” when they’re confronted with the complexity and nuance of reality. They’ve been conditioned to expect picture-perfect romances filled with softness and fluff, without any room for the challenges, growth, or tough love that real relationships often require.

It’s honestly a bit sad when you think about it. That narrow view not only limits their understanding of life and love but also prevents them from appreciating the depth and beauty of relationships that don’t fit the fantasy mold.

[mofsblog]

"This is some gay shit" Good. Silly. Fair enough. Doesn't inherently invalidate other interpretations of the relationship. Honestly yeah, it is kind of gay regardless of their canonical relationship status

"There's literally no platonic explanation for th-" WRONG!! KILLING YOU WITH AMATANORMATIVITY KILLING LOBSTERS 🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞

[onlyfangz]

ive definitely talked abt this before, but i literally cannot relate to the posts that are like "ohhh you guys ship them romantically when theyre soo much more interesting as friends". i contain multitudes. i think they are best friends. i think they are lovers. i think they are soulmates in a way that cant be categorised. these statements dont conflict.

[star-anise]

Yes, I absolutely do believe it's worth taking a critical gaze at romance novels and films, where "critical" means "assessing and evaluating" and not "find everything wrong with it". And yes, I'm okay with men doing this too.

But also, I somehow think that if I, as a woman, launched a Youtube channel where I read military novels and watched action movies and invited military women to laugh with me at all their silly or improbable or problematic bits, I would not get nearly the same reaction as men reviewing EL James novels.

It's that annoying thing where one does not have to be intentionally misogynistic to be in a misogynistic system, and being on the internet often means that the audience, reach, and social impact you plan on having frequently bears no resemblance to the audience, reach, and social impact you do have.

Also there's a bit of an accountability paradox, where making gestures towards a movement, like feminism, seems to include in its social contract an implicit agreement to be open to criticism when one fails from a feminist lens. Which means that something that seems directed to a hugely female audience feels inherently like a more fitting target for feminist criticism than other things that are objectively worse, but have never made any gestures towards feminism at all.

[lifenconcepts]

hot take but. Before people were fucking about with terms and stuff, old movies had WAYY more deep platonic connections that could be mistaken for romance and stuff. Not that they had romantic or sexual tension but like.. people nowadays look at two characters glance at eachother and think ‘wow. They should fuck’ but a room of guys would stare at some guy tenderly holding another guy on tv because he had a nightmare and think ‘wow. What a very sweet moment with absolutely no other connotations other than deep respect and sincerity.’

just think that’s neat.

[todoggukie]

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (2024) dev. Square Enix

[mxtheyes]

you guys all know that like. his take on this is a very generic liberal take, right. and it doesn't mean he's secretly super transphobic, right. you guys know that most bigotry is very mundane and subtle, and not secretly a sign someone's a nazi, right. right guys? right?

like there's things to criticize yes but i guarantee you if you talk to like. a random person at Walmart about this they'd probably have the same take. and i think having a huge uproar & insisting that it's immoral to watch his content now is like. more likely to make him dig his heels in than anything else.

idk. this is my last post on this fr. but like. i think... maybe..... don't let [insert streamer] be your only safe space, and don't put people on pedestals because they will fail to live up to your standards.

edit because this apparently wasn't clear: that doesn't mean don't talk about it or don't care about the normalization of bigotry. what this means is that making the situation something it's not (ie that skizz is actively and purposefully transphobic) masks the way that bigotry like this is mundane and often unintentional, and stops us from being able to talk about it in that way. i care a lot that's why I've posted like 1000 words about it atp. lol

[abrillustrated]

thinking about mizu from blue eye samurai. thinking. thinking so much. thinking about how mizu operates outside of gender. like we joke about her gender being revenge but straight up? it literally is. like she grew up as a boy and is most comfortable being a man, but behind that is the feeling of betraying himself because he isn't being honest about who he is and he lives in fear of being discovered. and when he lived as a woman, she found joy there as well. she fell in love, and though she wasn't good at it, she liked being a wife and enjoying a simple life. but in that life too, she isn't being honest about who she is. and when she reveals her true self, it's not a woman, she's a demon, a weapon. she's to masculine to be a woman, and too feminine to be a man. ultimately, mizu is most comfortable when they are being a murder machine. that's when they feel they are being the most true to themself. like a sword, they are neither man nor woman, but a blend of both, which makes them stronger.

[kinardsboy]

This has been sitting on my mind a lot lately but it seems extra relevant now with the way Tommy and by extension Lou has been criticized for acting “too gay” in ep 5. And while yes, I will agree Tommy acted slightly different in ep 5, it has absolutely everything to do with Lou’s incredible acting choices to play Tommy differently when he is around people he deems as “safe” which is much better explained in this amazing post here <-

All these complains are doing is just yet again exposing buddies as homophobes who are, at the end of the day. Uncomfortable with real queerness being shown infront of them. Of course we already knew this with how they react to Buck and Tommy kissing and god forbid flirting especially if it has sexual implications like the daddy kink scene.

They can’t possibly fathom their precious uwu baby Buck would be sexual with another man so they spin and twist it however they can to make it out to be, “NO! You see! Tommy started the flirting! Tommy is just an insatiable horny gay man! He only wants sex! Like most of them do!”

Which is again spewing homophobic rhetoric, who wouldve guessed thats what they immediately turn to?

I now have something probably controversial to say but oh well, im going to say it anyway.

A good many of these shippers would be deeply uncomfortable with Buddie actually becoming canon, because they would be nothing like their fanfic. They don’t want to see two men in a relationship, they want to see Eddie in a relationship with the character they project themselves onto.

There are so many examples of this but perhaps the biggest being the way Buck is made out to be the “woman” in the relationship and especially how he is made to be the “mom”

Buck and Tommy’s relationship 1st does not have any children involved so there are no gendered roles to be assigned (even though if there was.. theyd just both be a dad), they are both beefy and the same height, which is what people usually use to decide “top” and “bottom” but again since there is little physical difference between them, they cannot do this, which only adds to their uncomfortableness.

Furthermore, I would go as far to say that Buddie shippers dont actually like Buck.

A while back a shipper posted this analysis of Buddie, that essentially reduces Buck to a dog. A pet. Only to be let out of the bedroom to cook and take care of Chris, otherwise he’s meant only for Eddie’s pleasure.

Which, disgusting. But the thing that stood out most to me was how Tommy was criticized for

letting Buck be himself. For accepting and loving him flaws and all. For not trying to change anything, or “train” the bad out of him

While Eddie was the “trainer” in that scenario, that had to train the bad out of Buck in order for him to be acceptable.

And thats the funny thing isnt it? Buddie shippers have to completely warp and destroy Buck’s character to make him fit their mold of perfect partner for Eddie. They make him out to be this helpless person who can’t even tell Tommy he doesnt want to be called Evan, that needs rescuing from Tommy, that is a “mother figure” to Chris, that his “dream role” would be live in chef and maid for the diaz family..

When none of that is Buck.

Buck is a smart, independent and strong man. He has worked tirelessly on himself to know who he is and what he wants, which right now? Is with Tommy.

Bringing it back to my main point, their complaints of Tommy being more gay and Bucktommy intimacy ultimately just boil down to homophobia plain and simple, seeing real queer representation and not representation that they can specifically twist and cater to themselves through fic, headcanons or gifs, makes them uncomfortable

(could this be why so many of them ignore shows with canon m/m ships for favor of shows with fanon ones that will never actually happen? So they can make these demands for representation then shit on it as soon as they get it because its not fanfic? Its not their fetish specifically catered to them? It actually represents real life queer men who they don’t actually like?)

[foreignswaggersession]

yes louis and armand had filthy kinky sex between this:

and this:

y'all felt this, don't lie. feel free to argue with the wall. and don't just take it from me:

[adhdevankinard]

Even if the writers bring in a new LI for Buck, no one is ever gonna beat Tommy Kinard. Sorry! But just look at this material:

Tommy personally knows and respects the life of a firefighter and why it’s so important to Buck, something that Buck’s previous love interests found difficult to understand

Tommy can be involved in calls and can help the 118 in a way others can’t (as we’ve seen)

Even before dating Buck, Tommy had strong connections to the main characters — the most important people in Buck’s life

Buck himself said Tommy is his most transformative relationship since Abby (whom Tommy is also connected to)

Speaking of Abby, Buck pined for her, but it was clear that Abby was ready to move on when she left him. With Buck and Tommy, both of them want each other back. Neither is ready to move on. They pine for each other.

Tommy is one of the very few people who call Buck “Evan” and the only one to do so regularly and with such affection. It was only during the breakup that Tommy called him Buck. The worst day of Buck’s life was the day Tommy called him by the name everyone else uses for him. Because Tommy isn’t everyone else. And no one else will ever be Tommy to Evan.

Tommy was a part of the call that ended with Bobby’s death. Tommy was the only one who saw Buck’s grief after losing the person he considered his father. Tommy was a pall bearer and walked with the main characters at Bobby’s funeral.

Speaking of Bobby, Tommy is the only LI of Buck’s that Bobby approved of. The only one Bobby will ever approve of. Bobby knew Tommy and Tommy knew Bobby. Tommy was part of the 118 when Bobby began again. Tommy saved Bobby’s life before Buck met him.

It was Tommy’s decision to transfer that opened the spot at the 118 that changed Buck’s life.

Literally, Buck is the happiest he has ever been when he is with Tommy. He can be giggly during sex and hold funerals for dead cowboys. Buck smiles and looks at Tommy with so much affection. And Tommy shows up for Buck – whether it’s attending the hospital wedding after an exhausting shift or making sure he’s resting after he’s injured or cooking him a literal feast or stealing a helicopter.

Any LI after Tommy would pale in comparison. The writers will do what they will but … why even attempt to outdo this ... You simply can’t!

[scarfonbannermanroad]

Aroace shipping discourse is such a strange phenomenon. I'm sure it happens with other sexualities too but whenever an aroace character pops up its like a senate hearing over how to treat them.

[alchemistc]

There's been something about the woobification of Buck that's been sitting on the tip of my tongue for weeks now, and I think I've finally figured it out.

This is, of course, mostly in reference to the moral outrage about a decade-ish (give or take) age gap between two adult men and the infantalization of one said grown man, so all the puritanism isn't really coming from a place of good faith anyway, but here's the thing that's been bugging me that I couldn't quite put a finger on until now.

Buck has people he goes to for certain things. He has, what are in his mind, experts in the field for most of the things he can't think through on his own, that he goes to for a sounding board.

He went to Hen to talk through the sperm donor dilemma for a few reasons that made sense to him. 1) She's a mom. She has very much had to deal with the reality of 'giving up' children she considered her own. Buck is aware that he would be giving up something that could mean something to him, and he wants to talk to someone who has some insight into that. 2) She's dealt with IVF. She knows the risks, she knows the trials and tribulations, she knows about this thing that he is thinking about agreeing to be a part of so she's going to have a fuller grasp on the enormity of everything this process entails.

And they drink about it. Hen gives him what she can and cautions him where she thinks she should and they continue to talk about it and regardless of what SHE thinks, he makes his mind up in part because he got to talk to his Expert.

Bobby is often his go to when he feels like he's losing his grip on things. He's seen Bobby staring down the bottom of the bottle. He's seen the work he's done to pull himself back into the world, and he's seen the way he fights for his family, his people. Buck leans on him in times of questioning himself because he knows Bobby has pulled himself off the ledge with bleeding hands and a bleeding heart.

He reaches out to Maddie about interpersonal shit constantly. We see it all the way back in S2 when he's starting to question what the hell he's still doing in Abby's apartment, and that never really changes. She's the one with advice for him when he's angry with his parents, upset with the firefam, worried about his friends, or just generally concerned with the way he's perceived by people or how he perceives the world. He goes to her when he's embarrassed, ashamed, because he knows she won't judge him for it. She'll call him out, for sure, but she's not going to look at him differently when she knows he's done something he considers bad behavior.

When he goes to her during the Tommy arc, he's there for one reason he'll admit, and another she has to ferret out. 1) He lied to his best friend and he doesn't know why. 2) Oh yeah he went on a date with a dude that's not strange WHY IS THAT STRANGE I'VE ALWAYS BEEN AN ALLY PLEASE DON'T PULL BACK THE CURTAIN - and Maddie is there with two things: 1) It's not weird but it IS new and something you clearly haven't worked through all the way which is why 2) you'll tell Eddie when you're ready

And Eddie is sort of his go-to to bounce ideas off of. Eddie is his Buck expert. Eddie is the guy who can sort through all the bullshit and who sees Buck for exactly who he is, every time, regardless of what Buck himself is thinking. Eddie is his best friend, and he knows the good the bad and the ugly better than anyone else. He is also, quite frankly, the one Buck seeks out to help him contextualize all of his romantic feelings for people. Eddie's the guy he talks to when he's interested in someone, when he's falling for someone, he's the guy through which Buck filters his love interests into the firefam. I do the same shit with my best friend. It's instinct to want the person you consider the expert on you to meet the person you are interested in, it's instinct to want them to like each other, to get along. Buck knows Eddie loves him (in whatever way you see that love, Buck knows Eddie loves him) and he wants this person who loves him to be at least an active listener as he talks himself through the minefield of relationships. I do also think that up until the events of season seven, Buck considers Eddie sort of an expert on that traditional love-marriage-kids-white-picket-fence relationship Buck thinks he's striving for - in a very naive way, because obviously the wasn't what Eddie and Shannon had and Buck knows that, but he's probably fed some of Eddie's rose colored reminiscences back into that notion.

When he comes out to Eddie he's got two worries. 1) I lied to you and I figured out why but I'm still a little worried you think it's weird and 2) I screwed it up with someone I really like and I don't know where to go from here.

And Eddie (Buck expert) reassures him that just because it's new and unexpected doesn't make it strange, that it doesn't change anything in their friendship. And then he gets right to the heart of it - if you like him you should reach out and tell him that. He doesn't know you like we do but if you give him the chance to, he'll love you as much as we do. If he doesn't give it the same shot you want to he's the idiot.

With all that context in mind, Buck isn't seeking out Tommy's attention because he wants an authority figure, or someone to take care of him, someone to guide him through sex or love or relationship dynamics or any of the other random shit I've seen ppl infantalizing Buck about.

What he's looking for, and what he ultimately tells Tommy he'd like to pursue, is a partnership. Someone to walk (or more likely for Buck, speedrun) through experiences together. The Athena to his Bobby, the Chim to his Maddie, the Karen to his Hen.

So every time I see someone infantalizing Buck for seeking out a relationship with an older man for X or Y reason, I'm just like - no. He has Bobby, Hen, Maddie, Eddie, Chim etc for that. He doesn't want or need Tommy for that. He is a grown ass man who has built these strong relationships with his peers and his mentors and he is so fucking aware of that because he reaches for their help any time he feels the urge for a helping hand.

So yeah, Tommy's older. Yes, Tommy has more experience with his sexuality than Buck. And that - that's really it. Buck's been in the same career for more than half a decade. He's lived on his own since he was no older than 19/20. He's had serious relationships, he has a rich and fulfilling life. There is no power imbalance in the relationship between Buck and Tommy.

And while the age gap may be a bit of a draw for Buck, it's not WHY he's attracted to Tommy. We know because he's told Maddie. He's cool. He's interesting. He's confident. He has a cleft.

Buck isn't going into this waiting for someone older and more experienced to take the fucking reins. He felt like he clicked with Tommy, like there was an immediate connection, and yes, Tommy had to kiss him about it for Buck to actually figure out what it was he was experiencing, but from that point on it was all on Buck (and the people he leans on for advice) to help him sort through.

Tommy didn't do shit other than pump the brakes and try to give Buck the space he thought he needed to decide what he was ready for. Buck (again, with the help of his experts - Maddie for the emotional piece of it, Eddie for the Buck of it all) did the work on his own. Tommy didn't swoop in and overbearingly hold his hand through a sexual awakening. He kissed him, asked him out, realized he wasn't ready, stepped back and then checked in multiple times when Buck came back at it going 120 miles an hour.

And then he did everything he could to prove to Buck he wanted the same thing - a partner, someone to talk to, and lean on, and flirt with and rely on to show up whenever they could feasibly manage it (and sometimes when it's a little unfeasible too).

The narrative even acknowledges that Buck had no reason to go to Bobby in this scenario, when he often would, and lays out exactly why.

Within the canon of this particular arc, we're meant to see this as Buck realizing he has the experience necessary to think these things through on his own. This is Buck finally taking control of something that's always felt like it fell into his lap a bit. This is Buck doing more than treading water until his legs give out.

And minimizing that growth bc you personally don't like the LI he's pursuing is gross at best. At worst it's something much more insidious.

[chaosxcrushed]

Something something, sometimes the CRK fan base is too serious/protective over some ships, especially PureLily! Just saying that if you do not like another person's taste in ships, don't make your reasoning for it be “because it's not canon”

This mostly goes to the PureLily shippers. As much as we love the ship, it's not canon. In fact, we'd argue that ElderLily has more canonical romantic undertones

Bonus!! Even though we don't ship romantic ShadowVanilla

[kairithemang0]

Hate bitches that are like "if you like the toxic couple as fluffy you're being ooc and don't understand them" like shut UP I want to make the toxic couple fluffy because I THINK IT'S FUN!!! AND I WANT THEM TO BE HAPPY FOR 1000 WORDS! Now shut your trap and go chew on some stale white bread

[greensaplinggrace]

the fact that buffy's acceptance of spike is so closely tied to her acceptance of herself is so fucking important and people will really dismiss that with a bunch of half assed media analysis like do you think they realize their comprehension sucks so bad