#rewatching redemption s1 in time for s2

[pinktinselmonstrosity]

sir 😳

[candied-cae]

Okay... I finished OFMD S2...

And yeah, as much as it breaks my heart, this season disappointed me in so many different ways. There are a few things I absolutely adored, but a lot of it felt like a disservice to a lot of the work S1 did to establish the universe and its characters.

Oluwande gave Stede advice like one whole time this season, even though that was a big part of the first. Him consistently being supportive was such a light, and it was pretty much replaced with him just being generally bubbly (and I fucking loved watching him be bubbly and joyful, might I add, but it's different).

Jim's complicated relationship with the idea of taking vengeance wasn't brought up at all. Jim's relationship with Oluwande was absolutely shifted, even now, I cannot watch S1 with the knowledge that they're going to be played off as "best friends who hooked up once" and see it, they HAD to have been intended as an endgame couple in the beginning.

Frenchie didn't sing even once, despite the fact that the very first scene opens to his voice! Frenchie as a character was shrunken a ton, in general. Ed leaned on him a lot in S1, that was gone. Wee John was shown as his best friend, but how many words did they even exchange this season? They let him do another grift, but it didn't include Oluwande so (personally) it felt cheapened.

Wee John didn't make a single fucking joke about fire! Even though there was a lot of fire this season, and he made like three separate comments about arson in the previous one?!?!?! And, again, he barely even talks to Frenchie at all!

The Swede was benched for half the episodes, Buttons became a bird halfway through and possibly won't be coming back at all, Ivan was killed off with a one-liner, and Izzy died as a completely backwards version of himself that we were given almost no show of him transitioning into.

Izzy, who practically stole a bunch of other character's "moments" while they rushed through his redemption so they could kill him at the end and hope they got everyone attached to him enough to care. Izzy got to sing, Izzy got to play advisor to Stede, Izzy got to do drag with John, Izzy whittled a gift for Lucius instead of Pete, Izzy pretty much interrupted every single scene Gentlebeard had... It's just... frustrating.

Season 1 was revolutionary to me, but Season 2 just felt far more average in comparison. I don't know, I was so excited, and rewatching season 1 is still exhilarating, but season 2 just doesn't do as much for me. I really feel like it was the wrong choice to spend as much time as they did with Izzy when they still skipped almost the entirety of his "redemption," condense so many of the other characters to make for time, but still make sure we could fit in some incredible jokes.

One of the only things that didn't change for me, was the humor.

But about half of my favorite things just didn't exist these last 8 episodes, so I need to go drown myself in some fanfics.

[lyrarizi]

After rewatching sonic prime alot of times i can finally give my honest reveal:

Season 3 really dissapointing

S1 and S2 were really great tho!

S1: "2nd fav. season" (don't got much to say abt it 🙃)

- sonic his charactertisation felt kinda weird, he ignored his friends and is impulsive to the max

- sonic realising what he has done was kinda sad

- nine was AWESOME

S2: "fav. season"

- i liked the aspect of sonic going on a chase through the shatterverse to collect the shards

- the pirates were ASSHOLES!

- forest part never got me hooked so much

- good fights not too many and the pace went well (for me)

- CHAOS SONIC THE SILLY ❤️

- i wanted more chaos sonic he was a dark mirror of sonic himself and it was really intersting

- Once again nine was a fucking badass

- the betrayel was executed well ig

Sonic was really ignorant to nine but nine got his own faults too

But the line: "like the real tails would, I am REAL!" was so raw and the pain i can only imagine nine felt in that moment...

S3: "least fav. season ofcourse"

- i enjoyed evil tails very much

- episode 1 was fantastic but shadow being pulled out of the picture was bullshit

I also wanted a longer reaction to the betrayel of nine, i saw a comic dub of sonic having a panic attack. Now i know that is far too many of emotions for sonic to be allowed, but atleast they could've showed some tears and panic

- the fight episodes got bland real fast.

Just fighting the same ol' robots again, they get defeated, nine repairs them, the same again

- i did like episode 6 tbh...

The fight of the iconic duo and later the iconic trio was my favo fight in the season

Beautifully crafted

- episode 7..... where to begin?

To begin with: nine his redemption was forced and executed garBAGE

Sonic just went from, this motherfucker needs to PAY for his action to, aw im sorry i saw 1 palmtree and i understand why you wanted to murder me.

Aside from that i almost liked the rest of ep7

The race against time with sonic to save him from certain death was really wholesome

The Amy's were fucking cute and knux carried my sonknux heart ❤️

Shadow rescuing sonic was beautiful and i LOVED it very much

BUT! sonic should've had more emotion to seeing his friend again.

That cliffhanger was totally unnecessary and we know now that is just a symbol for sonic and his friends running into a brand new adventure

Couple other notes:

- voice acting was fucking awesome!

@mactheactor killed it (i want him to be the main sonic tbh

he is up there in my top 3 VA for sonic with @snapscube sonic aka penny parker and jason griffith (1st: penny sonic, 2nd: devon sonic, 3d: jason sonic)

he got the cockiness and the teenager vibe of sonic like jason and ryan have for example

he has all the talent and passion, emotion for the voice and it felt like i actually heared sonic himself)

- animation was really good!

i am not trying to bring the series down!!

i am just saying my thoughts but the series is amazing and should definitely deserve a watch if you like sonic things or if you just like action or multiverse thingies

That was my review of sonic prime i love to hear yur opinions on my review and what you agree and dont with ❤️

[voidartisan]

One thing I've noticed on this rewatch of tbb is the contrast between hunter and crosshair's lines of reasoning, and i find it intriguing. crosshair takes a very cold, purely rational stance on things. he joins the empire as a self-preservation move (or so he leads us to believe). "there's a new power in the galaxy and i'm going to join it because it seems like the best thing for me." hunter's reasoning is more moral/emotional. even when he's trying to appeal to crosshair, he argues that "you're nothing but a number to them." he opposes the empire primarily because it doesn't care about people.

what i find really interesting is crosshair's appeal to hunter at the end of S1: "you can have a purpose in the empire." which has a certain emotional undercurrent to it, and then in S2, crosshair kind of succumbs to hunter's more emotional line of reasoning as he watches it play out with mayday, and cody, and governor ames, and himself.

i know this isn't like. anything original for media in general; it's a pretty standard set-up for a redemption arc. i just noticed the consistency of it this time around and it's related to some other thoughts I have that are still forming

[trelkez]

Me watching Ted Lasso 3.11:

I truly thought the last few episodes of the show had broken any remaining faith I had in its storytelling, but no. The second scene of this episode: that broke any remaining faith I had in Ted Lasso's storytelling. This season is NOT GOOD. And yet: are they going to make my OT3 canon? Are they?

I'm going to process Ted Lasso 3.11 (mostly) the way I did last week, by doing a rewatch and taking everything in order as it happens. The show's writing is so incoherent at this point that I'm not going to attempt to impose order on it; things just occur. This is the way.

1. Ted's Mom

I spent the entire opening credit sequence mentally reviewing every Ted/Trent fic I've ever read that had some kind of take on Ted's mom – and realizing that whatever we were about to get wasn't going to be as interesting as anything I'd read in fic, because this season is hell-bent on the idea that all conflict can be washed away in the space of a single conversation. 

Remember when I would've just been excited to finally meet Ted's mom? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

2. Jade hates working with her boyfriend

And who can blame her? This woman has one thing, and that is working at Taste of Athens. Come on, Nate, get your own thing!

3. "We want you to come back to Richmond."

So, okay.

I've already written pretty extensively on how badly handled Nate's redemption arc has been. This has been a problem all season long; before I moved back to Tumblr, I was writing small, irate tweets about it.

Let's go back and look at some of the things I said during and after season 2:

2.07: Nate - his characterization has been really consistent: he's always been a jerk to Will, he uses his power over others to belittle them to make himself feel better, he conflates being assertive with being aggressive, this stuff was in s1 too

post-s2, 1/3: the show put a lot of work into showing Nate punching down, his growing narcissism, the ways feeling underappreciated makes him cruel to others and himself; I don't think we're meant to take away that being denied a Nespresso machine justifies a heel turn

post-s2, 2/3: Nate's history with women as shown is not great - when he thinks he's fired he immediately calls Rebecca a shrew; "perhaps you'd like to give me your number, too" to Jade the hostess as soon as he feels like he can order her around; kissing Keeley at all

post-s2, 3/3: when he kissed Keeley I was like, sure, this tracks; (for him) it becoming solely about him being mad that it wasn't enough to get Roy's attention also tracks. but the rest ... and some of the media takeaway ... is weird to me. is this relatable content?? should it be?

What gets me about all of this is that sometimes, this season has almost convinced me that Nate leaking the panic attack story to Trent was just a weak moment for which an otherwise lovable guy should be forgiven – but the evidence isn't there. They were so consistent in how they built up Nate's fall; they seeded that in as far back as season one. They signaled it through hair color! They unfolded it piece by piece, in a deliberate, escalating spiral from which there ultimately was no last-minute escape.

And then we get to season three, and two seasons of careful character building immediately becomes meaningless. Season three's Nate is a different person. This entire season is taking place in an alternate universe. And there's no reason they had to do that, because they had an entire twelve-episode season of increasingly long episodes in which to slowly but surely make Nate a better person! Time for him to learn a series of important lessons that tie into past behavior; time for him to slowly reconcile with his father; time for him to grow without erasing the person he had always been. Time to build him up into a better version of himself.

Instead, this is what we have. And even then, some of the most important parts of the story of Nate's redemption have happened off-screen. Nate quitting off-screen last week was truly shocking; the team discussing Nate's situation, deciding to forgive him, and voting on whether or not to invite him back – that happening off-screen is unforgivable. The West Ham storyline has, thus far, mattered so little to this season that maybe (.......maybe) we can say that severing ties with Rupert wasn't a key part of his journey, even though that's absurd, but Nate's return to Richmond is everything. That's the whole ballgame. 

For Colin to be part of the welcoming committee is truly fucking egregious. Even this very season, Colin is still repeating his affirmation from therapy as he actively works on building up his self-confidence – something Nate deliberately tried to destroy. At no point did I imagine that a one-on-one with Colin wasn't going to be part of Nate's apology tour. But now – one sprig of lavender for Will, and that's all it takes? Nate's treatment of Colin isn't going to be addressed at all? 

This is the same team that collected red cards like candy against West Ham after Roy and Beard showed them the video of Nate ripping up the "believe" sign. Remember the power walk of fury past Nate to open the second half of that game? Why do they now suddenly want him back? Because they heard he was working in a restaurant and felt sorry for him? Because they heard he apologized to Will and decided that was enough? At this point, I genuinely think the writers didn't know how that conversation would go, so they skipped over it. If you aren't sure how to get the team back on Nate's side, just have it happen off-screen; then it doesn't matter how it happened, only that it did. If you only tell and never show, you can make anything happen without having to get from A to B. 

All of this mess, all of this time, and we don't get to be in the room as the team reaches some kind of closure on everything Nate did.

4. "Richmond have won fifteen matches in a row. With two games left, you're just four points off Manchester City for the Premier League title."

Thanks for expositing all of that, Reporter Guy. If it weren't for the occasional infodump, we'd never know what was going on in the team's season! Exposition Characters, you're the true heroes.

5. "That goal is a lie. It should be retracted from the record. I apologize to everyone, especially the kids."

If they had kept to this kind of funny-but-alarming tone without going too overboard on it, Jamie's pre-Manchester depressive episode would've been a lot more effective.

I know this show can handle depression, anxiety, and parent-induced stress in a thoughtful way and balance that with tonally appropriate comedy, but can it do that … anymore?

6. Ted's ever-increasing mom stress

To that end: the way they built up Ted being so put out his mother was in town, I thought for sure we were going to find out he had been dodging her calls about something (was Michelle getting married after all?) and this would reveal whatever it was to the audience. 

I think – I think – that the actual intended effect here is to underscore that Ted ran an entire continent away from his problems and all of his unprocessed trauma, and having all of that catch up to him without warning triggered a stress cascade resulting in the meltdown we'll get at the end. But if that's the intention, what this episode really underscores is that they simply do not know how to handle this sort of storyline anymore. Dottie Lasso is lovely and entertaining and you definitely can look at her and see where Ted comes from, but the Ted parts of this story are about as nuanced as a sledgehammer on concrete.

7. "Trent, your hair is fabulous. It really is. It's just stylin'."

I never thought that Trent would actually meet Ted's mother in the show. I can't wait to see what fic writers do with this. (Please don't get discouraged by however the show ends and walk away, fic writers! We need you now, tonight. We need you more than ever.)

8. Van Damme's mask

This is officially more follow-up on a previous episode's subplot than we have had about almost any other subplot this entire season, and it's about one of the most disposable stories they've told.

9. OT3 Watch: "Shouting is Roy's love language."

Does Trent ship it? One of us, one of us.

10. OT3 Watch: Jamie crying on Roy

There's a lot about this scene I loved, so let's take a break for positivity! That sounds nice, doesn't it?

Jamie bursting into tears and then, when asked what's wrong, saying, "I don't know, I don't know, I don't know": intensely relatable. He's already in tears as he walks into the boot room, just barely holding it in, and the second Roy pushes him to toughen up (in general), he loses it, because of course he does: he's dreading another trauma at the hands of his abusive dad, in the hometown that hates him. It makes perfect sense for Jamie to be having a serious depressive episode, and it is entirely in character for him to describe that as "I don't use any conditioner anymore, because what's the fucking point."

This is one thing this season has done well, with patience and consistency: it's believable for Jamie to break down crying on Roy because they put the time in to get these two to that point. Last season, it was a big fucking deal when Roy hugged Jamie. This season, if Jamie is going to cry on anyone, of course it's going to be Roy.

That said: I think it was a mistake to go quite so hard on playing this for laughs. Depression and trauma absolutely can be mined for comedy. "Do you think a depressed person could make this?" works because it's still Ben Wyatt, it's just Depressed Ben Wyatt. Jamie smushing Roy's face around as Phil Dunster gives it his absolute best comedy wailing sob doesn't … feel like Jamie? It just feels like comedy. If the moment isn't organic to the character, probably it needed a rewrite.

"It probably needed a rewrite," the Ted Lasso season three story. – Then again, I wonder all the time how much of this season's problems are due to the infamous production-halting Jason Sudeikis rewrites, so … maybe not? Maybe this season needed fewer rewrites and more Bill Lawrence? Who can say.

("Will, you missed a good one" is a great closing note for the series-long gag of overheard emotional scenes in the boot room. If they do another one in the finale, they'll have overshot it.)

11. "Hey, Roy, would it bother you if we brought Nate back?" / "No, I don't give a fuck."

At this point, I briefly stopped watching. 

I went back to 2.12 to see if Roy knows that Nate was the source for the panic attack story: as of that episode, as far as I can tell, he doesn't. 

I went to 3.04 to see if there was any indication during the West Ham episode that Roy had figured it out by then, but that episode focuses on the "believe" sign, which everyone but Ted seems to be finding out about for the first time.

Roy doesn't know that Nate actively tried to ruin Ted. (Does it make any sense for Roy to not have done the math when he was in the room when Ted opened up to the coaches about his panic attacks? Probably not, but that appears to be the canon.) He does know what Nate was like, particularly toward the end; he knows that Nate abandoned ship for West Ham; he knows that Nate ripped the sign, and he used that to turn the entire team against Nate for the West Ham game; and perhaps most importantly, Roy is not especially known as an easygoing, forgiving guy.

This is a man who carried a devastating news clipping around in his wallet for his entire career and beyond. A guy who couldn't hug Jamie in celebration until he headbutted him to make them even. This is Roy Kent, who is known even by people who don't watch this show as the one with the anger issues.

And he's just – fine? To bring Nate back? He holds no grudges? Roy Kent? We're really going to have Roy Kent as the voice of "yeah, whatever, I don't care" while Beard is left to fume alone?

12. "If you bring that Judas back, I will burn this place to the fucking ground."

Once again, Beard is the only one who's seen season two. And yet, this is being set up as a conflict that Beard has to set aside. 

Has Nate apologized to Ted at this point? No. Was Nate an increasingly toxic presence in the locker room last season? Yes. Do they have any knowledge of his coaching style at West Ham that we're aware of that would suggest that he's had a major personality change? No. Are they currently on a fifteen-game winning streak without Nate? Yes. Are there only two games left in the season? Yes. 

Is there any reason to bring Nate back at this point? No. And Beard, who has been the only one all season long who has retained any emotional awareness of past events, is only allowed to have that awareness so that it can be used as a justifying force for Nate's return.

I support you, Beard. This is all some bullshit. You should be allowed to be pissed about it. 

13. Nora!

Is Rebecca's aside about Nora telling her to stop using her private jet the closest we're going to get to a Nora appearance this season? There's still time for her to pop up in the finale, but that seems unlikely.

14. OT3 Watch: Keeley checking in on Jamie

I was on the fence about whether or not they were going too hard on humor with Jamie's depression until "a suitcase is a drawer without a home … wahh." This is the best they could do for depression comedy? This is a comedy series that did an entire season about depression!! Phil Dunster really is doing his best in this episode, but not even he could elevate that line.

I do like the general concept of Roy going to Keeley for help with Jamie, only for Keeley to make it all worse. Roy being better at comforting Jamie is conceptually very funny. Writing dialogue that does justice to a story outline is tricky, isn't it? Mm.

15. Sam and Rebecca???

Are they doing this, or are they just going to tease it every single episode? Are Sam and Rebecca endgame? Surely not, right. If it were endgame, wouldn't we have gotten into the meat of it a lot sooner than … the finale?

If you know a Tedbecca shipper, maybe give them a warm cookie this week, because this episode did not move that anywhere promising.

(My money is still on Houseboat Guy popping up out of nowhere.)

16. OT3 Watch: Jamie and Keeley follow Jamie home

If this is the first time Keeley is meeting Jamie's mom, that means – he never took her home when they were dating?

Roy staring in absolute slack-jawed shock at Jamie and his mom cuddling on the couch is me. Roy is me. Setting aside for a moment just how much is going on there, I never would have guessed that Jamie had a relationship like this with a mom who was still in the picture. 

In 1.06, Jamie talks about how his mom got him into football and supported him but probably wouldn't be proud of him lately; in 3.06, we hear about a trip they took to Amsterdam when he was a teenager. Is that … it? Have there been other references to his mom? In 2.08, when Richmond plays Manchester City, there is a lot about his dad but no reference to his mom that I remember. The show is so laser-focused on Jamie's dad that I assumed his mother, whether dead or estranged or somehow unwell, wasn't an active force in his life in the present day.

This is a show about dads. They've told us that in interviews all along. Ted's dad, Nate's dad, Jamie's dad, Sam's dad, Rebecca's dad, even a whiff of Trent's dad; Ted's relationship with his son, even Phoebe's relationship with her Uncle Roy. We see Nate's mom, but that is almost entirely about Nate's relationship with his dad. The only characters who get to have meaningful ongoing not-about-dads onscreen relationships with their mothers are Rebecca and Nora, which is … weirdly gendered?

But now, with the curtain about to drop on this show, they're doing a Mom Episode. We get two moms we've never met before dropped on us in one hour. We know almost nothing about these moms, because they've never been made central to the story in a way everyone's dads have been; and here, in an episode titled "Mom City," their stories are still mostly about each character's relationship with his dad. 

Even so, those stories need to fit into what we know about Ted and Jamie. "I love meeting people's moms. It's like reading an instruction manual as to why they're nuts," right? Ted and Jamie's moms, introduced here at the eleventh hour, should shine a light on things we already know about these characters and make us think, "this explains so much."

Does Jamie's mom actually explain anything we already knew about Jamie? Does it actually make sense for Jamie to have had, all this time, a sweet, supportive mom available for hugs on demand, or does this just create a lot of new questions the show doesn't have time to answer? I don't think Jamie's mom as we meet her (or his future GBBO star baker stepdad) are fully outside the realm of possibility for his character, but we could've had more time to untangle all of this if they had spent as much time on Jamie's mom as they did on his dad. Instead, I'm left with: you're telling me Jamie Tartt isn't actually touch-starved? Jamie Tartt?

You're telling me Jamie's mom watches all of his matches … but has never been to one? Jamie's mom got him into football and drove him to all of his practices, but he's playing right down the street and she's watching from home? Jamie's mom is this important to him, but never met Keeley? Jamie's mom is this important to him, and we've only ever heard about her as the reverse side of a story about Jamie's dad? There are some drop-ins you just can't make in the eleventh hour.

Also: what is going on here? I'm with Roy. Wow. Wow.

17. Jade really hates working with her boyfriend

Is this really just a way to get Nate back to Richmond? Yes. Is it nonetheless completely valid for Jade to not want to have to hear about Nate's salty nuts scheme after work hours? Also yes. You might be a girlfriend ex machina, but you are nonetheless valid, Jade.

18. OT3 Watch: Jamie's posters

*chinhands* So are they, like … are they doing this on purpose, or … no, they have to be doing it on purpose, right? Right?? Maybe it won't ever go any further than this, because even now I have a hard time imagining an OT3 becoming canon, but they are surely at least tipping their hat to it. 

19: OT3 Watch: walking off arm-in-arm

Surely they aren't going to make it canon.

20. Pep????

They actually brought on Pep Guardiola for a Ted Lasso cameo? In an episode about Manchester City leading the title race, airing in the same week City won the title irl? I'm legit impressed.

21. Jamie's injury drama

This is honestly the dumbest way to generate in-game drama. Jamie goes out on injury and Ted's coaching masterstroke is to act like they've just lost a player to a red card and now have to defend a one goal lead with ten men? Just in case the training staff can shoot Jamie up with enough painkillers to let him finish the game on an injury he couldn't walk on? 

I know Jamie is their star striker and all, but did Sam, Dani, and Colin suddenly lose their scoring abilities when Jamie hurt his ankle? We just had a major subplot last week about what a heater Sam has been on – did that suddenly disappear? Does this team have no ability to adjust to the loss of a player? They've won fifteen straight games!! In real life, that would be one of the longest win streaks in Premier League history! No team becomes that successful without quality substitutes. Just get someone on the pitch, before Manchester fucking City takes advantage of being a man up and gets the equalizer we're told they've been on the verge of for the entire second half.

Why. This is Ted Lasso, why am I getting hung up on its football strategy? This isn't about strategy, it's about Ted and Jamie. Nothing matters except the conversation they're about to have on the sideline. Everything else happens exclusively to allow that conversation to happen. The football is just set dressing. None of this matters.

It's just so dumb, though. God.

22. Jade hates working with her boyfriend so much

Truly next level of her to blackmail her boss to get Nate fired so she can have some peace in the workplace. Does she only exist in this show to advance Nate's storyline? Yes. Is she doing this to be a Good Girlfriend? Yes. Can I ignore both of those things and pretend this is just a badass move by someone who does not care to mix her relationship and her job? Also yes.

23. Ted Lasso and forgiveness

This season's insistence on total forgiveness – that the past is the past, that holding a grudge is a moral failing or a poison of the soul – is one of its biggest flaws. Everything needs to be tied up just so. Characters can't truly grow unless they let go of whatever anger they're holding onto. In the end, everything must come around to wholesomeness and healing. As the show nears its end, it is doing everything it possibly can to wash all slates clean. 

(Except, possibly, with Rupert. We'll see.)

In a void, Ted's mini-speech to Jamie about how he should forgive his dad so that he himself can heal might be – not something I would at all agree with, but fine, in that I don't have to always agree with characters on television shows and Ted is clearly doing some projecting here re: his situation with his mom. But in this broader context of what's going on with Nate, on the sideline of a game, it just feels … forced, and kind of gross. FORGIVE YOUR DAD SO YOU CAN KICK FOOTBALL. FORGIVENESS FIXES EVERYTHING. Okay, Ted Lasso. Okay.

Remember when Dr. Sharon said, "I think you [still hate your father] too, Ted, and that's okay," and they talked about the things Ted both hated and loved about his father, because it was okay for him to hold both of those things inside him at once? Where has that gone?

24. Manchester Loves Jamie

I'm not going to ask what the point of putting Jamie back on for one minute and then substituting him straight off was – do they truly have no one else who could have put them up by two? – because honestly, the City fan ovation was so unbelievable that football strategy pales in comparison. They spent an entire game booing and shit-talking him in the stands, and then he scores a goal on a wobbly foot and they suddenly realize he's Good, Actually and cheer him off? In a game that could decide the league title?

Manchester City could have won the league title right here in this game if Jamie hadn't scored that goal and the City fans cheer him off? In what universe. In what version of reality. Were there no even vaguely believable feel-good moments they could engineer for this game???

25. OT3 Watch: Roy whispering sweet nothings

They aren't going to make it canon, right??

26. Jamie's dad in rehab

This is one of the only "thing we heard nothing about and then suddenly it happens" moments where it makes sense for no one to know what's going on. It's positive growth for a shit character that I can actually get behind and believe in.

Jamie's dad is here doing the work and trying to get better. Instead of having it as an extremely brief reveal in the penultimate episode of the series, imagine if they had done this earlier and shown his dad getting out of rehab, and spent some time on Jamie deciding whether or not to forgive his dad now that his dad is sober. Emphasize the hard parts. Show them building a new relationship as different people. That would be so much more in keeping with the actual themes of this show than the magical thinking this season has engaged in.

27. Pep??????

"Don't worry about wins and losses, just help these guys be the best versions of themselves" from Pep Guardiola is THE MOST TED LASSO version of Pep Guardiola I can imagine. I cackled out loud. I threw back my head and laughed like a woman eating a salad. A+ comedy, intentional or otherwise.

28. Nate hiding under the desk

Why? Why. I mean, I get why – this humanizes everything Nate did in 2.12 and makes him seem like a pathetic guy who can't even ruin a sign right, and retcons some of the most potent parts of Nate's season two arc to make us feel empathy for him where we might not previously have; I had this issue with the rolling chair pratfall video earlier in the season, too – but it just exhausts me. They couldn't spend the time redeeming him organically, so they're rewriting what's already happened to make it seem less bad.

Going back to Ted's funeral therapy session with Dr. Sharon: remember how Ted had this deep, terrible fear of losing someone he loved because he didn't do enough to make them feel their worth, and Nate unknowingly cracked that wide open when he accused Ted of "abandoning" him? Remember how Nate could only feel important if he was the most important person in the room, so being one part of a team felt like rejection – and Nate at the absolute bottom of his spiral, having already tried to ruin Ted's life in the press, tore at him with every emotional weapon he had on hand?

Now we're going to reframe all of that as, "ahhhh, this little guy, can't even do a harm to a desk chair, look at him hide from cleaners, so sad, someone rescue him from restaurant!!"

I'm so ready for this show to end. It'll be easier to pick and choose the parts I want to hang onto once canon is closed.

29. OT3 Watch: champagne

But they aren't going to make it canon, right?????????

Honestly, get someone who looks at you the way Roy looks at Jamie here. Just incredible.

If this is the most OT3 we ever get, it'll be enough.

30. Beard's backstory

Let's pause here a moment.

As a coping mechanism for whatever the show was going to throw at me in this episode, I made myself a bingo card. Every time I got a square, I won a tiny piece of chocolate. I made some of the squares obvious hits, some of them decent possibilities, and some were wild swings at things I knew would never happen.

Earlier in this episode, I hesitated over giving myself the "Beard Backstory" square for Beard and Dottie having nicknames for each other, wondering if that qualified as our Beard backstory for the episode. And then … Beard showed up at Nate's door.

In that moment, I truly felt I had cursed myself with this bingo card. Don't invite possibilities you aren't willing to see play out on-screen, I think is the lesson here?

"Just like in Les Mis." – Nate, and all of us

I really don't know how to feel about this Beard backstory. In theory, I have no issue with Beard having a backstory about being incarcerated for meth and Ted helping him out afterward, but in practice, I'm not sure it makes any sense whatsoever. Beard has a record that no one knows about? He's been an assistant coach in the Premier League for three seasons and it's never popped up in the Daily Mail that he was in prison on a drug conviction? I know in the real world Ted wouldn't be allowed to coach Richmond to begin with, but just how far into fantasyland are we?

(I also have some questions about the "and then I stole his car" twist. What exactly are the writers trying to say here about people freshly out of prison? He had a difficult re-entry, totally understood; he found a place to land, and immediately turned back to crime? Should they maybe have spent a little more time unpacking this story before they made it canon?)

All of that aside, I'm not sure I really wanted a Beard backstory. For the entire run of this show to date, Beard has been something of a Ted-adjacent cryptid with a very clear personality but relatively opaque motivations, whose history we've learned about through wildly random drop-ins that always raise more questions than they answer. He's a guy who roams the city at night and collects subcultures like stamps. He's in an eternally tortured relationship with a manic pixie nightmare girl who somehow suits him perfectly. His devotion to Ted has never, ever been in doubt. 

I just don't think it actually rounds out the character of Beard to know exactly where he's coming from and why he's with Ted. The mystery is part of the character. Introducing an in-depth backstory in the penultimate episode of the entire show feels … kind of cheap? I would completely understand if other people felt it was long overdue and are happy to get it before the end, but to me, pulling back the curtain feels like a misunderstanding of what makes Beard a great character. We don't need to see the man behind the curtain. Being able to wildly speculate about what makes Beard Beard is a big part of his appeal. 

And to drop this in as a plot mechanism for bringing Nate back into the fold – to make this significant change to a major character as a shortcut on Nate's mismanaged path to redemption – I'm just so tired.

This whole thing where Ted emotionally manipulated Beard into forgiving Nate by invoking Ted's own past assistance to Beard – I'm not sure that comes across the way they think it does. Ted wants everyone around him to forgive Nate and the only one who isn't willing to do it is Beard, so Ted forces the issue by hitting Beard where it hurts to get Beard to project his own past trauma onto Nate's situation. Does Ted really think that Beard stealing his car is equivalent to Nate putting his mental health history on the front page of every newspaper in London? Even if he does, why does he think it's fair to Beard to pull out Beard's trauma like a trump card? 

31. Fuck you, Mom!!

What was Ted's relationship with his mother back home, that she comes to visit him in London and within 48 hours, everything he's been holding onto for years comes boiling out of him in a series of F-bombs borrowed from Jamie Tartt? What was their dynamic like in Kansas, that the minute she shows up his shoulders go up around his ears and he can't handle anyone he cares about liking her at all?

Is this happening now because Ted unlocked all of this in therapy? Is it happening now because he's been away from her for so long? Was he not visiting her on those trips to Kansas? Is it the change in setting – having her in London, in his space, meeting his people?

This whole "thank you / fuck you" speech feels overcooked at best, well-acted as it is, and it veers into some really incoherent areas. When Ted tapped his chest, I thought, "oh god, is he impotent in his soul?" Honestly, that would have made more sense than Ted saying he's afraid to get close to his son because "I know he's going to leave."

Yes, Ted is afraid of losing people, but we know because Ted has said so in therapy that his response to that fear is to pull people closer in. To try to make people feel wanted, feel valued, feel good about themselves.

In Ted and Henry's relationship, if Ted has projected his dad onto anyone, it's been himself. If there is a monster under the bed here, it is Ted's fear of turning into his dad, of having the potential for that inside him. That line would have made 110% more sense if it had been, "I'm afraid I'm going to leave," even if we would have had a lot more to unpack on-screen at that point. As it is, it's just – kind of nonsense?

Did they feel like they had to pull out some extra motivation for Ted having been in London all of this time? They didn't. The degree to which they are trying way too hard in some areas and not at all in others sure is something.

32. I've read this fic

Rebecca and Bex? Yeah, I've definitely read this fic. That "Bex divorces Rupert and takes West Ham" square on my bingo card is going to reappear next week.

33. "Do you know what time it is?"

"It's the time of the season when we do X" is a little too much meta self-awareness for me, and the "I'm going to invoke truth bombs as a concept but I don't actually have one" is clunky execution to set up Ted's cliffhanger line, but the staging: flawless. In seasons one and two, Rebecca comes into Ted's office and stands on the left of the frame, facing right. In season three, Ted is the one who comes into the office and stands on the left, reversing their positions both physically and narratively. That kind of attention to detail is A+. 

(I wish they gave that much attention to the plot, but I'll take it where I can get it.)

What's next?

One more episode left to cram in everything they could possibly want to do with this show! We're on a real run here of episodes that cram in abrupt resolutions to ongoing stories while also dropping in a ton of new elements we don't have time to explore, and I wouldn't expect the finale to be all that different.

- Before 3.11, I thought the chances of Ted going back to Kansas were 85% for, 15% against. Now … I think it might actually be closer to 75% for, 25% against?

This episode pushed so hard on sending Ted back to Kansas, and we're being set up in that cliffhanger for him telling Rebecca he's quitting after the season ends, and – there's still an entire finale to go. Will the episode just be one long goodbye, or will there be some last-minute twist to keep him in London? I think the chances of him staying in London are actually slightly better now that the "I'm going back to Kansas" twist isn't being held for the end. Still pretty unlikely, though.

I say again: if he goes back to Kansas, fine, we can fix that in post. If he goes back to Michelle, I'm turning this car around.

- Every social media feed I have has been frantic with speculation as to whether or not they're going to make the OT3 canon in the finale. My money is on Not Canon – I think a wink and a nod at it is as much as they're going to do – but I'll be happy with anything that isn't a flash-forward in which Jamie has a girlfriend. Just let us walk off arm-in-arm-in-arm with room to speculate, show.

- So Nate goes back to Richmond, Ted leaves, and Nate becomes head coach, right? Just like we could pretty easily guess was going to happen before this season even started? There's still a chance of a surprise shake-up there, but I'd put it at, like … 5%. A 5% chance of this not going in the most predictable possible direction.

- If Ted leaves, does Beard stay or does he go? He stays, right? If they try to convince us that Jane is dying to move to Kansas, I'll have to Eternal Sunshine the entire finale from my memory banks.

- I am very much hoping for a thoughtful farewell with the pub trio. They've earned it.

- It's West Ham they're going to be playing in the last game, right? If Nate's West Ham storyline is going to have any meaning, he has to go up against his old team with his old old team in the last game of the season while Rupert's drama plays out in close-up.

There should also be some simultaneous game drama happening with Manchester City. They were four points down before this game, so on the final day of league play, they'll be one point down. If City wins, they win the title. If City draws or loses and Richmond wins, Richmond wins the title. If City loses and Richmond draws, then … actually, there could be interesting last-minute drama if they're trying to break through on goal differential, but I don't think the show would go that far into technicalities. Richmond has to win, right? They aren't going to send the show off on anything less.

Five days until we're free!

[mcfuckity]

I know a few people who dislike huntlow and say stuff like:"this ship is super rushed, hunter has to work on himself, he doesn't understand romance and it is the last thing he needs" but they ship huntric and lumity🥴like you dislike huntlow for being rushed and hunter not being able to understand romance but you ship hunter and edric who interacted only once 🤡 something tells me those are not the reasons why those people dislike this ship, but completely for different ones🫣 and they are afraid to admit. Again i don't have problem with people who dislike huntlow but i have problem with people who drag huntlow down meanwhile shipping edric and lumity. Again every person has a right to dislike or like a ship. And what is so interesting that the majority of people never brought these excuses for amity when they shipped so much lumity and attacked everybody who wasn't a fan of this ship. And also unlike amity hunter didn't have that much problems with morality, didn't harm intentionally willow and gus, even when he got them captured he still tried to fix mistake. He actually owned up to his mistakes and had to learn it the hard way. Meanwhile amity wasnt addressed for her awful behaviour and shifted the responsibility of her actions on to her parents. And she didnt even try to reconcile with willow. She suddenly became a "sofgtie" out of nowhere without getting called out and only around luz. I am sorry folks but this is not a proper redemption. People also dislike willow and gus for not being plot relevant when its clearly writers fault for not giving them episodes to shine, and it is not as infuriating as amity who got a lot of episodes dedicated to her but still ending as a "girlfriend" who doesnt do much. No offense to amity stans and they literally whine all the effing time like why people dont talk about amitys trauma, when it was the only thing discussed during s1-s2, as if all these talks and fanarts about amity wasnt enough. They always bring up amity literally all the time. 

I agree and I’ve discussed this before. I recently haven’t said anything because I want the whole show to be over before rewatching it and having a retrospective to see if anything changes. I have talked about this before though.

I adore Huntlow/Winter and I love that they are still separate and unique characters while being together. I hate the stupid excuse that Hunter isn’t “ready for a relationship” because it makes no sense. A traumatized kid just found people who makes him feel seen, heard, and loved. He also got a crush on someone who ALSO experienced mistreatment and cares so much about him. I can see why Hunter would like Willow and vice versa. I CAN’T see how Luz would like Amity since she’s BEEN bullied and she SAW Amity bully Willow. I have no idea why Luz was all in Amity’s face.

The popular fanon ships are so frustrating because they’ll just ship Hunter w a yt person with the same logic he got with Willow for.

I haven’t seen any Willow and Gus hate but they were literally sidelined to make Amity look good because they know that she didn’t have a real redemption. It makes no sense that Amity got so much screentime just to keep reiterating herself as Luz’s gf but never have Willow and Gus be there for Luz to reiterate their friendship. Hell, even in s1 and Amity was barely there, the fans literally favored her and made so much fanart of her replacing Willow and Gus/ making them background support to lumity. It was literally just “tomato Amity” and “idiot Luz” fanart flooding my feeds. At least Huntlow art has character. Amity needs nothing else.

Then the show damn near goes out the way to have Lumity on one side and Emerald Trio on the other with sprinkles of Amillow interactions to be like “See? They’re all friends 😇”. It’s getting tired fr.

[fakeosirian]

☕️ sinner arc?

O H B O Y

full disclosure i still have not done my note-taking s3 rewatch so i'm liable to misremember (or just not remember) things but i thiiiink i'm confident enough in this opinion to post. it's not supposed to be "discoursey" tho i'm focusing on my crits of this arc more than the compliments because that's what i've done more thinking about. thank you for enabling this and also i'm sorry because you've unleashed the beast <3

thesis statement: the sinner arc, as it is, is both totally natural and consistent with the narrative up to that point and also a HUGE break from the rest of the show tone-wise, craft-wise, and tbh emotionally to the point that i think that it was kiiiiiiiind of a mistake. or at least it's hindered by being the final arc of the show (not counting TOR). some of my sour grapes are just personal bias against certain kinds of "whittling down the cast" plots, but after thinking it over for a While, tbh it bothers me moreso because the things i would change are very simple and would make a world of difference craft-wise without really changing any of the major plot beats or undermining the good parts. (and thus it's disappointing to me that that's not what we got when i feel like the creative team already avoided those exact issues in earlier parts of the show...)

so ok. getting this out of the way: i may come off harsh on this arc because i find it very stressful to watch for personal reasons LMAO so i'll hand this to it: it's very good at getting the desired emotions out of me (extreme discomfort/despair), so if that's the only metric you're using to judge quality, there you go: it's good.

unfortunately it also makes me sad about the state of the characters in a way that...you could interpret as success? but this is the bit that, even accounting for my bias, i think is Not Good. let me explain:

s1 and s2 do an excellent job of manipulating implied perspective of scenes to put characters you're primed to dislike in slow-burn situations that at first exacerbate their flaws and then give them a shot at, not necessarily "redemption," but...imperfect mutual understanding. examples: victor perceived as literally murderous is revealed to be a victim (and later perpetrator) of a generational cycle of abuse; joy, as a victim of that cycle of abuse, lashes out and victimizes others; patricia, eddie, and jerome have more moments from their povs, so it's not quite as dramatic, but they experience a similar character arc as well.

on the flip side, you also get characters whose povs you get as your "main lens" (that can trick you into thinking youre viewing an objective pov) that have biases that become apparent as they interact with those "villainized" characters and react in ways inconsistent with the tone of the scene (thinking of nina and mara here primarily, but fabian also is a good example of this). that's how you get nina flipping out at the friends that SHE CURSED to the point that finally, FINALLY, she acknowledges that she's gone too far. (i should do a writeup on the curse arc and her behavior leading up to it because i think it's a fascinating commentary on the nature of being an "audience insert" that sort of gained sentience over time lol.) mara is self-explanatory here because she cannot help herself from cooking up the WORST possible response to a mundane relationship problem, and yet the tone of the scenes from her pov ends up being extremely sympathetic to her feelings (the way it's shot, edited, the music cues, etc.) in a way that fosters a really neat type of dissonance between text and subtext that doesn't signpost/announce itself until it's already Very There.

when these two different methods for handling character clash, as an audience, you're simultaneously told how to feel (those tonal cues i was talking about) but also left enough clues to change your mind (which i think the generally pro-joy tone of the discourse on this website is proof that people will do and is an intended potential experience of the show tbh). the moral/emotional result of that is a really neat commentary on subjectivity, how complicated reconciliation is, and how the only people too far gone to improve themselves are those who simply don't want to. the scene at the end of s2 with nina giving victor the tear makes me so emotional because it's an olive branch, an acknowledgment of the complicated nature of the situation and that victor has been a horrible person and made horrible choices in the past, but he does not have to keep doing that, and he does make the right choice when push comes to shove. same thing with joy in the senet arc (and i love that fabian is simultaneously the pov character and honestly the antagonist because of his inability to manage his emotions until the end), and honestly, same thing with patricia in early s1 re: her paranoia surrounding nina.

so what does this have to do with the sinners? well, they pretty much fly in the face of that entire writing philosophy on a fundamental, functional level, by design. considering "that philosophy" is just...earnest emotionally satisfying character writing in a story primarily driven by its characters and how they interact with one another over time...that's not great!

the leadup to a sinner capture is great. the afterwards is my issue. you take these characters who are in a narrative about not letting your flaws define you forever and you erase and overwrite their personality to be their singular greatest flaw, and then you reverse that and snatch away their memories to add insult to injury. that's not character regression (which is a completely legit avenue and is why the sinner captures are great in theory) -- it's anti-development, anti-human. it's certainly made worse by the fact that it's the show's final arc and thus the ex-sinners don't get a chance to process their experience on screen (needing that closure for myself is why i'm writing flat on your face lol), but even if it was addressed in the show in the best manner possible, it'd still feel cheap to me because it's agency-stripping and deeply cynical by design.

the thing is, this is deeply fixable. there's no singular way, but one i'm particularly interested in experimenting with is having the "sinner" be a sort of alter-ego that takes over in certain circumstances, subverting the conscious mind and leaving behind memory gaps and inconsistencies that lead the sinners to doubt themselves just as much as the other characters. it'd heighten the themes of misplaced trust that s3 is doing a lot of work with, and it would give the sinners a chance to still be their characters, have agency, continue to develop, and idk imagining a scenario where patricia or fabian is desperately begging someone to NOT trust them sounds fucking delicious to me. also other thing: it'd also fix something that's not really a "mistake" but just makes me sad, which is the fact that once a sinner is taken...that's pretty much it for their character as you know them for the rest of the show. like yeah, they're still there, but man, when the show was airing and fabian got taken, i straight up felt like he died, lol.

there's another issue that that proposed solution would sort of solve? but tbh is just another consequence of this type of plotline, which is: zero-sum game character development, or characters getting their quality/development sacrificed for the development of other characters. i do not like that patricia, easily one of the most complex and interesting characters on the show who goes back and forth between evolving and devolving as a person regularly in a way that feels sympathetic and consistent with her previous behavior and environment, has that progress torched and flattened for the sake of eddie's development. it's not necessarily poorly conceived or structured or illegitimate, but it's hella depressing for me to watch, personally. if it felt like she had more agency as a sinner (ie. the way sinners function being changed fundamentally), i wouldn't mind as much/it wouldn't feel like as much of a zero-sum sacrifice, but as it stands, her sinner capture and subsequent existence is completely centered on making eddie maximum miserable enough to move the plot forward. that's where i feel like i need to rewatch because that's certainly an uncharitable read, so that take is accompanied with a metric ton of salt!

that brings me to my other semi-gripe (less significant than the above but worth talking about): who specifically gets taken.

victor getting taken at all, but especially first, kinda rubs me the wrong way because following s2 where he was getting taken for a ride just as much as the kids were (if not more), its sad to see him flattened back into the caricature he was through the kids' pov in early-mid s1, except this time he's actually just like that. i do feel like taking victor is natural, though, so i'm not totally against him being a sinner/he's a character that i think can survive being made this sort of pseudo-"irredeemable" without being retroactively ruined because he's always been a tragic character. sweet, though should not have been taken, full stop, and i legit hate that as a writing choice.

when it comes to the kids, i understand the thinking behind taking old guard sibuna and it does appeal to me to have old vs new happening within the greater landscape of s3 and the show as a whole, but i think it's missing the trees for the forest a bit. it's too focused on the subtextual positioning rather than the material reality of what patricia, fabian, and alfie are feeling and doing as individuals -- not so much re: patricia and fabian (they were cruising for a bruising), but alfie. like idk alfie isn't always a saint but mara was right there. (jerome was right there. joy was right there. i dont necessarily think either of them would have made good sinners -- frankly they might have made me angrier actually and mara is PERFECT PERFECT IDEAL -- but they make more sense than alfie to me.)

re: fabian, his capture is easily the best scene of all the captures, despite the fact that it makes me physically ill (honestly because it makes me physically ill lol), and that's because it's founded in previous behavior (senet arc is basically the blueprint for the sinner arc in many, many ways) and exceptionally tragic to see as a result because you like him, but he's been off the rails lately. the thing is, i love him being messy, but i hate the permanence of the consequences, like all you need to do is have one (frankly deeply semantic) slipup of character, and boom, you're evil forever unless your bestie can clean up your mess. it's good writing, but the message it sends is nasty, which like i feel like i've probably said a million times in this post, is sort of the whole deal with the sinners.

tl;dr: the sinner arc is powerful emotionally, and i enjoy picking apart the effects it would have on the characters in fanfic (so i'm not full on pro-revisionism lol), but it's just too cynical for me to vibe with and enjoy watching. i love the rest of the show for how earnest and unwavering it is in its belief in people, so seeing it take that turn for the intensely cynical gut punch right at the end -- even if everything works out in the end -- will always be somewhat off-putting to me. i feel like there's more i want to say to further explain that, but i've already spun my wheels enough here, so i'll save it for a follow-up once i've finally cracked and done that deep-dive rewatch, lol.

tysm for asking!! <3

[drst]

Nate Shelley should DIAF and suffer forever

I remember thinking when S2 of "Ted Lasso" ended that they were definitely going to try to do some sort of redemption arc with Nate as a key part of S3, and also dreading it because I doubted they were going to pull it off successfully. I wanted to be wrong, because I really hated Jaime during S1 and they managed to get him through a good redemption arc and turn him around. But Nate's actions were much more repulsive than even the worst of Jaime's behavior in S1, and I got the feeling the writers weren't going to understand Nate's arc was going to have to account for that.

What I didn't expect was the show to just chuck all of Nate's character development through S2 out, pretend he had a personality transplant, and expect us to just forget. I have no idea why the writing tanked so hard on this but it did.

Nathan Shelley is a sexist and a bully. He always was a bully. The very first thing we see Nate do? He runs across the pitch to scream at Ted and Beard for being on the grass. Nate can't yell at anyone who actually works for the team, but he sees an opportunity to yell at people who aren't part of the team and he leaps at it, almost literally. (Should he be telling unknown people not to be on the grass? Yeah. He doesn't tell, he runs and screams.) It's played for laughs, of course, that the guys he thought he could chastise without repercussions are his new bosses. But we see this pattern with Nate over and over. As soon as he feels like he's in a superior position over anyone, he bullies them.

The whistle he gets at the end of S1 when he gets promoted? Ted has to take it away. I noticed when I was rewatching, Nate keeps blowing the whistle indoors. He's so addicted to having that power, Ted has to take his whistle away and give him one that doesn't work to stop him from doing it inside.

Obviously right off the bat in S2 he starts bullying Will, which just gets progressively worse during the season. He publicly bullies Colin too, and only apologizes because Beard makes him do it. It's a credit to the acting that we can feel how much Nate is seething through the apology and the scene with the jersey afterward, but Nate, the character, is enraged that he's been made to apologize.

Nate's also a sexist asshole. He makes a number of comments about women that are gross as hell during S1. The episode where he's promoted to being a coach, when at first he thinks he's being fired, he turns to Rebecca and calls her a "harpy." The OWNER of the club, he picks a specifically gendered insult to throw at her in his rage. And of course, he assaults Keeley. I know a lot of people don't want to call it an assault, but he knows full well Keeley is not interested in him, that she's in a relationship with Roy, that she's not coming on to him and is in fact going out of her way to do him a personal favor, and he forces her into a kiss anyway. The magnitude of that fuck up was really glossed over on the show and, unfortunately, by quite a few of the fans. Keeley being hot, or physically close to Nate in the scene, or open about sex and her sexuality, doesn't make it okay for a guy who knows 100% she's not interested or available to force sexual contact on her.

There's more evidence of Nate's sexism too. When he gives the speech before the Everton match, he specifically uses gendered insults on Colin and Issac, but not on Sam or Dani. He says Issac has been playing like a "big dumb pussy" and talks about Colin waxing his pubic hair (something associated with women and gay men, ironic given what we later learn about Colin). And again, this is played for laughs at the time. Colin and Issac were bullying Nate pretty badly (which is terrible! Not making excuses for that) at the beginning so we understand why Nate has an extra animus against the two of them. But he doesn't use gendered insults when he has a go at Dani or Sam, or especially Roy.

His speech to Roy actually made me think the show had a better handle on Nate than it turned out to have, because while he insults Roy, he adds the bit about "I'm worried what it's going to do to you if you keep it all to yourself." It made it seem like Nate does care, at least about some of these guys, which is important to being a good coach. But that care doesn't really make another appearance, and by S2 he's decided all the players are idiots and anything that goes wrong is their fault, or Ted's fault for not listening to Nate.

Bullies are always very aware of the heirarchy and where they are in it. They always know who not to piss off and who they can attack freely. Nate is like that from Day 1. And like most bullies, Nate cannot stand to be made fun of, and he cannot ever admit to a mistake. They run with the whole "wunderkind/wonder kid" thing and he repeatedly denies that he misspoke, because his ego can't take it.

What frustrates me is the show seems like they set a lot of this up on purpose. S1 Issac and Colin don't stop bullying Nate until Roy (at Ted's urging) headbutts Colin and orders them to stop. The bullies continue bullying until someone in power steps in and makes them stop. Nate bullies Colin in front of the whole team (Nate's a coach by then), but Beard (higher in the ranks than Nate, who also has the "I haven't told Ted yet" card) orders him to apologize, which he does grudgingly. Then he takes the fury he's feeling out on the person who can't fight back, Will.

The thing is, there is NO WAY ON EARTH Nate's bullying behavior stopped just because he became a head coach. There's no way his ego suddenly became capable of tolerating people saying negative things about him, especially on social media. Put a bully into a position of power over more people, they get worse, not better. I know they retconned this whole "oh Nate's a certified genius!" thing in there, but there is no way Nate, who was obsessively scrolling Twitter in S2, just got over that in S3, when he was running a whole team, which probably lost some matches, when presumably the fans blamed him as the head coach. But we never see that happen. There's no way he had an entire team and staff under him and he treated everyone nicely. This isn't how actual bullies work, especially when they are in an environment where the person in power above them is encouraging the bullying, which is exactly the kind of guy Rupert is.

We see a bit of Nate being a dick to Ted in S3, but no indication that he's struggling with managing the team or the coaches. All of that power-hungry, ego-obsessed behavior just kind of goes poof. It makes no sense. And somehow I'm supposed to not only care but be happy with all the time wasted on this bullying, sexist asshole dating… the woman from S1 who correctly rejected his attempt to pressure her into giving him his number?

And of course, Nate's ultimate sin, betraying Ted's personal medical information to the press, just sits there. Unaddressed. Never adequately dealt with. Trent pays more of a price for what Nate did than Nate himself does. I guess we maybe were supposed to infer that Nate regretted it? But we're never told it in any meaningful way. We're never shown that Nate grasps that what he did crossed a line from personal insult to risking the team's well being, as well as exposing Ted's private information to the public in a way that is wildly unethical and terrible behavior for a SPORTS TEAM COACH who has to manage personal information about other people all the time. They just handwave it as "Ted forgave him so it's okay."

Beard seems to be the only one who grasps the magnitude of it, and then Ted shames him into forgiving Nate near the end - and for no real reason. Nate contributes absolutely nothing to the team's overall status and success by being there at the end. The play Jaime uses, which Nate came up with, was from S1, so Ted would've used it even if Nate hadn't been on the sidelines. Having Nate in the clubhouse again helps nobody, makes zero difference to the team. My assumption is that Apple was already pressing to try for a spin off and they needed to somehow bring Nate back to Richmond.

Nate's dad also has a total personality transplant along the way here too, so it's a larger problem that makes me think they had something else in mind for how Nate's arc in S3 was going to go that had to get rewritten, but it's one of several pieces of S3 that were really badly done. Maybe if S1 hadn't been so well written it wouldn't stand out how uneven S3 was, but here we are.

Anyway, no redemption for Nate Shelley, sexist bullying asshole. May he die violently in a fire and burn forever.

[archive2394934]

Hi! Will's role in S5 anon here.

Your thoughts are very interesting, and as a horror fan myself I get the frustration, really. I'm 100% sure there's more to Henry's story, and the Duffers confirmed we will see flaskbacks of young Henry with Brenner. I. Can't. Wait.

As for Will, I have to disagree tho. In S4 the writers actually gave visual confirmation that he does have powers, I mean, more than just perceiving the hivemind. There are a LOT of clear callbacks to S1, for example Henry killing with the head tilt, like El did in S1. For Will, the confirmation is the direct parallel between the scene when Holly sees the lights in Will's room and the test at the lab, when Two turns on the lights. It's the same thing. I really doubt the writers included that parallel to remind us that Will has just a connection to the hivemind. Something we've been known since S2. Nothing new. There are also many other elements (I'm rewatching every episode, like three times in a row, there are so many details, it's crazy!) but yeah, I'm sure he has powers, and it's not just because I love his character. It's there in the show. Always been there. But we needed S4 to put the pieces together.

About the UD being stuck at 8:15 PM. That connects whatever happened in the UD specifically to the moment Will vanished, not to the opening of the gate. In S2, when he's at home and sees the Mind Flayer for the second time, it's 8.15 PM. And when he's filming Mike in 2x02, on the camera you can see it's 8:04 PM, moments before Will has the vision. But when Joyce rewatches the tape, the same moment, with Mike's face, it's 8:15PM. And Will didn't have the vision ten minutes later, so... There's another reference to 8:15 pm, but the point is that it's not a mistake. El opened the gate before 8:15 pm, that's a fact. So I'm very curious to see what Will can do. I think there's more to know about him, just like there is about Henry. : )

Anyway, thank you for your time!

Thats true! And I'm excited for that too. I think thats probably the only thing the Duffers "confirmed" that I know of so I'm not sure why people in this fandom keep saying stuff like the Duffer's confirmed Henry's the big bad and the one controlling the MF which is just a random cloud thing and there is absolutely nothing else possibly going on. Pretty sure they did the opposite of that, actually. And I'm also sure when they were asked about Henry, if he was gonna have some kind of "redemption" in s5 or whatever, they refused to confirm yes or no, which is interesting to me because if the answer is no you would just say no, particularly given I'm sure they're aware of the way a lot of the fandom has interpreted the canon events. It wouldn't be a shock to anyone or reveal anything to the fandom to just say "no" but if the answer is more "yes" then you couldn't actually answer because that would confirm the fandom is wrong about almost everything and thus would actually spoil things. Imo, anyway???

As for Will, I have to disagree tho. In S4 the writers actually gave visual confirmation that he does have powers, I mean, more than just perceiving the hivemind. There are a LOT of clear callbacks to S1, for example Henry killing with the head tilt, like El did in S1. For Will, the confirmation is the direct parallel between the scene when Holly sees the lights in Will's room and the test at the lab, when Two turns on the lights. It's the same thing. I really doubt the writers included that parallel to remind us that Will has just a connection to the hivemind. Something we've been known since S2. Nothing new. There are also many other elements (I'm rewatching every episode, like three times in a row, there are so many details, it's crazy!) but yeah, I'm sure he has powers, and it's not just because I love his character. It's there in the show. Always been there. But we needed S4 to put the pieces together.

Interesting, but I'm gonna disagree with that being what the writers were trying to confirm because we saw in S4 that you DONT need powers to do that when you're in the UD. Robin, Eddie, Nancy and Steve did it in S4 to contact Dustin, Erica, Max and Lucas. We were shown that light/energy has some sort of presence across dimensions that can be manipulated from the side of the UD. (Which makes sense imo because the MF itself appears to be an sentient cosmic energy force - the lights in the UD/Hawkins seemed to have a part of the MF drawn to them, and it was "poking" this "remanence" of the MF that manifests around the lights that causes the lights to react. I don't know specifically how to explain that any further but thats basically what we saw, keeping in mind normal humans are also energy sources themselves. Like this is some science shit that I don't know that much about, but yeah there is def some science behind it.)

I think the scene in S1 with Holly was a paralleled by Two's test, yes, but not to say that Will has powers like the lab kids. What it seems to be more suggesting TO ME, (and this would again tie into the Serpent and DnD's lore as well in the sense that according to DnD lore the Serpent is the source of "all magic" in DnD and all "magic users" are essentially just "manipulating" a part of the Serpent), is that somehow the MF is "the source" of the psychic powers Henry AND the lab kids (including Eleven) had. Which I mentioned a little bit about here. Because the thing is we also don't know if it was Will in the scene with Holly that did that or if it was something else. The lights behave like that in the Holly scene SEEMINGLY to lure Holly into the bedroom where the Demogorgon is lurking. I don't think Will would have lured Holly to the Demogorgon. I don't know that we can confirm that this was a Will moment as a result and not something a little more nefarious but none the less, you don't need powers to work those lights like that from within the UD, and that is something S4 directly showed. (This scene was just very distinctly different to me from the other scenes where we actually do know Will was the one using the lights. It has a ominous, sinister vibe to it from the moment it started.) What that scene with Holly also seems to draw parallel to is the scene in Henry's childhood where he is seemingly being lead to something (likely the spiders in the vent) by the lights in the house. (But what could have been manipulating the lights from the UD at this point is the big "mystery" because at this point there was no Will or Henry, or any human influence there, which seems to show the MF itself can do it because there is nothing else there at that point and if its smart enough to do THAT it cant just be a cloud. It has some sort of consciousness and is something we can probably consider malevolent.) The spiders that Henry finds in the vent are repeatedly likened to and are apparently an avatar of something both "evil" (as covered with Victors flashbacks) and "divine" as Henry explains them which is important here. It kinda seems odd that Henry just randomly went looking in the vent in the bathroom and just knew there was black widow spiders in there the way he did. Instead it shows he's drawn to them by something. Henry is drawn by some other force to the 'danger' of these spiders and Holly is drawn by a similar force to the danger of the Demogorgon.

About the UD being stuck at 8:15 PM. That connects whatever happened in the UD specifically to the moment Will vanished, not to the opening of the gate. In S2, when he's at home and sees the Mind Flayer for the second time, it's 8.15 PM. And when he's filming Mike in 2x02, on the camera you can see it's 8:04 PM, moments before Will has the vision. But when Joyce rewatches the tape, the same moment, with Mike's face, it's 8:15PM. And Will didn't have the vision ten minutes later, so... There's another reference to 8:15 pm, but the point is that it's not a mistake. El opened the gate before 8:15 pm, that's a fact. So I'm very curious to see what Will can do. I think there's more to know about him, just like there is about Henry

I think I missed something here because I also don't see how that specifically means Will created the UD or has powers or maybe I'm just too stupid/tired to understand words rn. I mean its an interesting detail, I'm not doubting its significant somehow but it could mean a whole lot of things outside of Will having powers, imo? But if you have like a more in depth post of some sort explaining Will having powers floating around and all the "elements" you're mentioning, HMU cos I'd love to read it and see them all too.

[aijatar]

I binged the first three episodes of Redemption s2 last night and here are some of my thoughts:

Breanna is brilliant this season. She's already got some really good emotional mini-arcs in these first episodes: the sibling rivalry with Hardison and how she wanted him to see her as an equally skilled hacker in her own right, and then taking a greater role in planning and executing the e-sports job. Aleyse Shannon is doing an amazing job portraying her, and I especially loved her acting in the scene where evil teamowner whatshisname threatened her. I also loved the dress and hairstyle at the debudante party in ep1!

It must be noted that Eliot looks amazing this season. He also had some good character beats in The Tournament Job, gotta love protective Eliot. Last season his character felt pretty two-dimensional, reduced to grumpy, punchy grandpa who didn't understand technology, and I'm happy to see that this season there's a bit more depth to him, so far.

Still formulating my thoughts on the foray into Sophie's past. Loved the bit about her inspiring a bestselling heartbreak album tho.

There haven't been any major plot beats for Harry yet, but I did love him in The Tournament Job especially. He's generally been a fun, well-rounded chararcter so far in s2.

Now, last but definitely not least: Parker. Like Eliot, I thought her character was rather flat and two-dimensional last season, and I'm not very happy about this season either. There was one moment in ep1 where I thought that she was gonna help Breanna and Hardison talk it out, but then the show didn't deliver. She mostly makes loud, kooky one-liners and doesn't understand human interaction - something we literally saw her learn in the original series - and so far she hasn't been a major emotional player at all. Breanna has had, over s1 and now into s2, her arc about being Hardison's successor and a next-gen hacker, Harry's whole thing is about being a reforming evil corporate lawyer, Sophie was getting over Nate's death and now her past is coming back to haunt her. Even Eliot had his girlfriend arc in s1 and good standalone beats so far into s2 (and Hardison didn't have enough screen time for deep arcs). Parker struggled with a mentorship role in s1 for two seconds and then the show reduced it into more silly, and again loud encounters.

(Why is she so loud in Redemption... I don't remember her being like that in the og series)

The kooky one-liners aren't even my problem, they can be pretty fun. I just want her to have more sincere moments of connection and shared feelings with her team - and actual, well-handled hardship arcs as well. She is capable of incredible emotional arcs, we all saw it in the og Leverage. She's my favourite og series character and she deserves the world, which she's not getting right now.

I'm probably gonna rewatch soon and organise my thoughts better, but I wanted to yeet this out into the world now before I lost my motivation again.

[immobiliter]

       so i started my s1 rewatch, and i feel like it’s important to note that, even though aimee is a part of the untouchables clique and is referred to by eric as ‘one of the most popular girls at school’, she doesn’t give off particularly mean girl vibes. even in the first couple of episodes, she is honestly very sweet ( and absolutely treated like shit by olivia, ruby and anwar ), if a little too preoccupied with appearances. i imagine her appeal to the three of them is 1) the fact that she is probably one of the richest girls in moordale, and having an empty house frequently means she can host them and host parties, and 2) that she is a people-pleaser who will bend to their whims and is very easily influenced

        this is demonstrated in her relationship with adam --- and honestly they are a disaster couple lmao, but their key issue is communication ( which is always aimee’s issue lmao but i digress ). aimee understandably distanced herself from adam when he faked his orgasm, and then again when he exposed himself to the entire sixth form, but if the pair of them had actually talked --- if aimee hadn’t listened to ruby and dumped adam because he was, in her words, “too embarrassing”, and if adam had been more patient in trying to talk it out rather than getting into a fight with kyle ( and admittedly he did try ), they absolutely could have figured things out. aimee says to maeve that adam was considered a “delinquent” by her friends and was therefore bringing down her social status, but she also says that adam was very sweet when it was just the two of them, and adam’s readiness to fix the issues that they were having in their sex life ( even before he undertook his redemption arc from s2 onwards ) shows that he genuinely cared about her

        so when it comes to aimee’s involvement in the popular clique, she comes across to me as more of a passive participant than a ringleader. if anything mean was said by the others, she would let it happen, and maybe have occasionally said the odd thing that was insensitive, but aimee’s issue is that she hates conflict and hates to rock the boat. during her party in s1e2, she was clearly not enjoying herself as she walked around after everyone clearing up and worrying about the mess that her parents’ house would be left in, despite telling maeve that she was having a great time. she doesn’t like making people feel bad and that’s how she ended up in the popular clique for so long

[coolpointsetta]

I think season 1 was objectively the best of ted lasso in terms of writing, pacing, and setting up plot lines. And the other two seasons can’t even compete on these qualities.

However, season 2 had some really big emotional moments like the man city ep, the funeral, Ted going to therapy, roykeeley fight etc. And in my opinion, season 3 didn’t really have the setup to make me feel as much for the characters I grew to love over 2 seasons. Even the finale didn’t seem as emotionally intriguing as some parts of season 3, but the Mom City ep and Nate’s apology did make me shed a tear. Even though s2 was messy and a bit all over the place, it’s the season i rewatch the most. Plus Jamie’s redemption and the Christmas episode are my favourite!

Season 3 is mostly a mess but it has some of the best moments in the series. Sunflowers might be my favourite episode tbh. They screwed over Keeley this season, and wasted so much time with Zava and Shandy. But I am glad we got to see Roy and Jamie together. Colin’s storyline is the highlight of the season, and his episode made me cry like a baby.

So. Season 1 is objectively the best, but i rewatch season 2 the most, and season 3 has some of my favourite moments in the entire series.

Sorry for the long ask!

no i absolutely agree with all of these!!! very interesting takes thank you for contributing :)

i think s1 was just the PERFECT introduction to the show, engaging and warm and s2 was an excellent development on all of those points. s3 had some…interesting aspects with a less than stellar ending, which is why i’m staying delulu, kicking my feet and twirling my hair that they’ll come back with a s4 to better wrap things up.

despite its strange decisions, s3 is my favorite bc of certain characters arcs. not necessarily their endings, but the arc. nate coming back, little snippet of beard and his past/meeting ted. rebecca standing up to edwin and turning down rupert. jamie and his whole mom city bit. i think about sunflowers and just cry sometimes.

i like that s2 and s3 episodes were longer, because 30 minutes was simply not enough of these characters. however, i think s3 could have REALLY benefited from either being like 20+ episodes to fully wrap up all the plot lines or even just split into two seasons since there were a lot of plot points that were rushed. nate’s redemption, while done well, could have been better. i agree that keeley was largely tossed to the side and she deserved better. the team going all the way and winning the league.

“season 1 is objectively the best, but i rewatch season 2 the most, and season 3 has some of my favorite moments in the entire series” very interesting and i love it!! i agree that i rewatch season 2 the most, but my favorite episode is still sunflowers. season 1 i bounce around between episodes, usually picking “2 aces” and “the hope that kills you”

never apologize for a long ask i am more than happy to receive it!!

[disdaidal]

something you're excited about AND top 5 characters currently ❤️

Oh heya! 👋💖 I already answered here what I'm most excited about, so. :3

My top 5 characters?

Cahir (The Witcher). He's my newest conquer so duh. This knight bitch already (kind of) caught my interest on the last previous seasons of TW because I mean - a cunty, ambitious, antagonistic guy on a holy mission, any means necessary? Yeah. But I was still like, hmm, he's kinda, you know, but I don't know. But s3, this season? He was just really kind of pathetic (like a sad, wet little kitten compared to the murderous little twink that he was in s1), but still cool and complex, and I decided that's it. I'm putting him in a box and taking him home with me. Like, villain/antagonistic dudes with potential redemption arcs? Sign me the fuck up.

Billy Hargrove (Stranger Things). I may not have been really active in this fandom lately because... well, you know. But he's still mine and you can pry this bitch from my cold, dead hands. I originally didn't care much for him in s2 (I didn't hate him by any means but I just couldn't take him and his macho-ism seriously lol), but then s3 came and his character arc just... fucked me up. Broke my heart. Like he had wronged and sinned, yes; he was a massive bitch and a bully, sure. But he was also never really given a chance to properly redeem himself, at any point in the show imo. And that fucked me up and broke my heart and so he's mine.

Ellen Ripley (Alien). My first (bi) awakening and also the first female protagonist that I felt like I could really look up to. She may not be big and muscular, or a man-hating girlboss who doesn't cry or show emotion when she feels bad, but she kicks ass. She kicks alien butt. She's a woman but she has big balls. She fucks. And she loves cats, too. And that I can appreciate. A lot.

Cara Mason (Legend of the Seeker). I feel like this is a recurring theme with me but a character who starts off as an antagonist/villain and then gets a redemption arc? Yeah. Like, she's also gone through so much shit in her life - she's been forced to go through hell and back and raised to believe emotions mean weakness - and then she allies with the protagonist and slowly finds home with him and his 'merry band', and starts to *feel* things and even show *emotion* and like. A simple girl like me, with simple tastes - how could I watch a character unfold like that and not feel *anything*? Anything at all? Impossible. Yeah, so she's also mine.

Fili (The Hobbit). I feel like he's a bit of wild card in this group because he isn't an antagonist with a complex story line, or some big ass protagonist ready to save the world. But I had such a huge crush on him when the Hobbit movies came out about 10 years ago, and having recently rewatched/revisited the LotR & Hobbit trilogies, I realized just how much I loved him back then and how much I love him even now. He didn't get a lot of screen time, not even that many lines. But his bravery, stubbornness and will to defy his 'destiny' and go to the edge of the earth, hell and back, to protect his baby brother touched me. Through his character, I also found his actor, Dean O'Gorman, and his numerous other acting projects and man, he's great. The Deano fandom has also been kind, chill and just a great place to hang out at every now and then, so. It's all thanks to this "golden lion prince" dwarf here.

[moca-de-led-ger]

Throwing out my thoughts of amphibia and my funny journey with it is that I didn’t fall for it on sight. I remember watching the first two to four episodes coming out with “that was fine, albeit maybe not for me.” It’s good for a children’s show on the Disney channel but don’t know if it had anything to offer me beyond that. I wasn’t expecting anything more deep from Anne and sprig nor like them as much. It’s funny because I thought the exact same thing of gravity falls after watching like the first two episodes.

I would’ve respectfully dropped it if it weren’t for the fact that not only was I keen on watching as much of the 2010’s era of cartoons as possible, but want to expand my palette and watch/experience as much media as I humanly can. I think I recall hearing sort of good things from it so I got around watching more and came out of s1 with “that was okay, I’m glad I watched it.” Reminiscent to something like Wander over Yonder, which is a different flavor of a show but shares the same kind of quality. And I do have a soft spot for WoY even if it doesn’t get as much recognition but would be lying if I said it was as great as the big story driven animated shows people are talking about. The main cast and their swag grew on me, I appreciated the frogs of wartwood, and the slapstick has a strange charm that hits that sweet spot of entertainment value I kind of yearn haha. There’s even this innovative execution with the way the characters deliver their dialogue. I dig it. (they’re basically like the gravity falls s1 eps though only half as clever). The only real nitpick that may bog the show down for others is too much screen time of mayor toadstool (like the writers had an easier time making a conflict for an episode relating to the mayor doing something shitty and not giving any continual consequence just to excuse making him do something bad again for story material). It’s at the very end when he’s finally the only wartwood member left to respect Anne/have a form of redemption that the season reaches a sense of gratification. Though the show also has this weird formula of characters being told not to do something, only for them to do something, and end with them learning to not do the thing, which hilariously could be nearly every episode of the show.

After the way s1 ends I immediately jumped into the 5 available episodes season 2 had. And despite them being more of what the previous season is like anyway, they’re a little wackier and establish the world a little more. Those s2 episodes in addition make the show feel worth while and fun as heck. It’s probably the fact that it goes in a direction I would’ve wanted them to do earlier, to move away from wartwood. But since I finally started warming up to characters like Wally and Mrs. croaker, it just so happens that Anne and the plantars leave. Left me like “wait…what…but I like them now 🥺”

After time went on and s2 and half of s3 had been out i decided to hop back in. But instead of continuing off of s2, with how much I liked season 1 and know how it generally goes, I decided to rewatch from the very start. And I absolutely loved it, so much more than I was expecting. I wouldn’t love this show as much without Sasha, Marcy and the story threads of season 2 and a bit of s3. But the show’s main appeal to me is Anne Boonchuy and the Plantars.

[hawkstincan]

The thing is… I tend to binge watch things. But sometimes the show gets too ‘something’ for me to keep going and I need to step away from it. So I pick something else. And there are ongoings! And some shows I watch only at home and some only at work (technical reasons). So this is the list of shows I’m currently watching. I may start screaming and shitposting about any of this at any given moment.

1 good doctor (season airing) 2 grey's anatomy (season airing) 3 9-1-1 (season airing) 4 9-1-1: lone star (season airing) 5 chicago med (season airing) 6 FBI: most wanted  (catching up s1) 7 the Rookie  (season airing) 8 our flag means death (rewatching first season) 9 superman&lois (season airing) 10 the flash (season airing) 11 leverage: redemption (catching up s2) 12 yellowstone (season airing) 13 mayor of kingstown  (catching up s1) 14 star trek: strange new worlds (catching up s1) 15 star trek: discovery (catching up s3) 16 the last of us (season airing) 17 alart: missing persons unit  (catching up s1) 18 doctor who (catching up s3) 19 harley quinn (catching up s3) 20 criminal minds (catching up s16) 21 voltron: legendary defender (watching for the first time) 22 interview with the vampire (catching up s1) 23 due south (watching for the first time) 24 this is going to hurt (watching for the first time) 25 banshee (watching for the first time) 26 masterchef (catching up, rewatching s10) 27 his dark materials (watching for the first time) 28 hemlock grove (watching for the first time) 29 true detective (watching for the first time) 30 doom patrol (catching up s3) 31 westworld (watching for the first time) 32 titans (catching up s4) 33 criminal minds: suspect behavior (watching for the first time) Jeez, it's bigger than I thought and I have a strong feeling I forgot something...

[theforgottenmcrmy]

Thank goodness you mentioned that timeline issue 🤣. The math isn't matching for me there. It doesn't make sense for him to have a 15? year old that just magically popped up.

I also feel like big Dylan (since sprayberry is in the movie pretty sure) really won't be there since he gave the jeep to Scott at the end of the show - even if he says he has the jeep irl at his house or whatever. You never know though 🤷, they might even have a random fbi phone call between Scott and stiles or something.

I feel the same with Peter and Isaac popping in, that would be fun. I personally had my fill of Jackson in the show since they made the mistake of not ever going deeper into that kanima to werewolf storyline.

I just feel like they wrote the movie thinking - if we can't get stiles, we can get Allison! And I was not an Allison fan, I tell you 😐. I was alright with her in s1 but s2 had me so mad, that's all I can remember everytime I try to rewatch. I distinctly remember when she died in the show that I felt a single tear go down my face because everyone else was crying 😂.

That also might be why I'm like 😐 throughout the previews. At the same time though, if we're bringing back characters that were dead for multiple years, let's bring back the twins and Deucalion - that could've been fun to see how everyone interacted after their redemption arcs imo.

Exactly😂 and since Derek’s own canon age is disputed which I may or may not know because I once seriously considered writing a fic for him that makes the whole 15 year old kid thing even more confusing. Plus, who the heck is this kid’s mother?🧐 Hopefully we get some answers here, because the math is not mathing and the canon is not cannoning😅 I’m legitimately thinking they just *to hell with* the timeline and established canon so that Derek’s son could be a teenager, and hence a main face for the spin-off show.

Ahhhh, you got me there. Low key forgot Stiles gave the Jeep to Scott😅 I would loveeeee some kind of nod to Stiles, even if it is just a phone call or something prerecorded and altered to fit whatever’s going on. On the topic of little Dylan/Liam though, I’m also looking forward to seeing what his relationship with Scott is like at this point. Felt like they had a decent big bro/little bro mentor/mentoree dynamic, and that was one of the aspects I loved about the later seasons.

I feel like Peter is a given, but I’m trying not to get my hopes up. But every time in the main show, where it got to a point where he hadn’t been seen or mentioned for some time, he’d find a way to show up. So we’ll see.👀 Isaac may be more wishful thinking, but I’m hoping for it big time. He deserved a happy ending, and I hope he found it. That’s true about Jackson though…. Like, I appreciate the fact that they brought him back for the later seasons, (and for the show, he’s in this too, right?🧐 I thought so but now I’m doubting myself lol), but since they didn’t really acknowledge the Janina/wolf elephant in the room anymore, it felt a little off. But if he’s back, I’ll be happy to see his character. He was a jerk, but… a jerk I could possibly tolerate(?) I’m not sure how to explain it.😂

I can’t tell you how relieved I am to meet someone else who wasn’t totally like “Allison😍”. I agree, she was okay in season 1, but in season 2 her character really just started to irritate me (honestly, probably just how she was written more than anything), and it never really turned around from there. I think I felt sad about her death more because of how the others would deal with her loss, rather than the loss of her character herself 😅 But I just don’t think her return to this was NEEDED, know what I mean? Could’ve easily written this without.

You know what Argent I would have liked to see return? Kate. That may be a hot opinion, but since the whole show started with her and what she did, and there still was never any proper resolution received, I think it would’ve been cool to have the movie and conflict of the main characters end with her too.

Yesssss Deucalion and the twins. I dig it. Fingers crossed, maybe they just wanted to keep some surprises for the movie?😅🤞🏻 We need more grey characters to keep things interesting, and I’d say that fits those three to a tee. I agree, would’ve been really interesting to see the dynamic between them all. Maybe even a somewhat awkward conversation or two between Jackson and Aiden.😂